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Bubu
7th June 2013, 22:54
I saw this video yesterday publish here. I am concerned because it is kind of not safe. I have to inform you because that is what we are here for to learn and teach. And frankly I have learned a lot in this forum not in the context of quantity but rather quality. I mean it’s easy to acquire tons of learning but 90% of them are garbage. It’s like I have learned here in ten days the equivalent of 10 years. So to Bill and all the Avalonians Maraming salamat, TYVM.
Here in our place we have 220 volts and that is enough to kill instantly I understand that you have 110 volts. Nevertheless I was electrocuted around 3 times by my welding machine with 72 volts and it felt pretty bad I think 110 is enough to cause serious damage if not death especially if your seating on a ground pad or tie a ground to your wrist. I have good knowledge in this filed as I do auto wiring and house wiring and do repair all sorts of electrical appliances. When I do house wiring I see to it that my feet are properly insulated with thick shoes. I can actually work with the mains power on provided I do not touch the live and the neutral at the same time or I do not touch a concrete or any conducting material while holding the live. The guy on the tutorial video clearly do not understand what he is doing or simply trying to sell something. Here is what he did; He had one leg of the tester connected to the mains neutral ( ground) and the other leg he touch with his left hand. With this set up electricity pass from his body to the tester and to the ground. Now when he touch his other hand to the pad which is also connected to the ground what he is doing actually is by pass the tester (electricity from his body direct to ground) so naturally the tester will register lower reading but not necessarily mean that less total electricity is passing to his body. With this setup two conducting path is created ; body to tester to ground and body to ground so you see why the tester must register a lower reading. If you connect your body directly to the mains neutral this means you only need one leg to pass 110 volts of electricity thru your body in other words electrocute you. With you working with computer or any electric appliance it doesn’t seem wise to me. My suggestion; go to auto parts supply and look for a fuse holder single fuse type and get the lowest rating fuse. In our place we have 5 ampere minimum but if you can get 1 or 2 amperes rating much better. Now cut your grounding wire in the middle and connect both ends of the wire one in each leg of the fuse holder. In the event you are electrocuted the fuse goes open immediately. And please listen to your body not to others I mean if you feel good then do it because the way I understand it if you ground your body you are actually passing more electricity to it not less. But let me relate to you my experience. I was a participant in one of the invention exhibit and there is this inventor who has a crank type electrical massage machine works by actually passing 20 to 40 volts thru the body my estimate only I tried it but did not ask whether if it is ac or dc. On one occasion another exhibitor had a hypertension. So he was hook up into the machine, 45 min into it his BP was normal and was hook down after one hour. The following day I eagerly approach the man and ask the result he told me that he did not take any pills and had place an order for the machine. Passing electricity to the body might actually be good for the body. Standing barefoot on the ground will actually make our body a conducting path for potential difference between earth and the atmosphere. This means electricity is flowing thru the body. Shoes isolate our feet from the ground thereby terminating the current flow to the body.
Hope this helps

Ernie Nemeth
7th June 2013, 23:09
It is not the voltage that kills you, it is the current. 20 milliamperes is all it takes to put your heart into arrhythmia. The worst voltage by far is 110 volts. It is enough to cause your muscles to contract and often that keeps you hooked into the circuit. At 220 volts and higher, the potential is great enough to "throw" you off the circuit.

Working on electrical systems with the power on is not a safe working practice. Always turn off the main source before starting work.

Never fuse a ground or a neutral. This can cause serious problems in the system, including inacceptably high voltages, out of phase current surges, electrical equipment failure - and death.

Seems like your country's regs are falling short of keeping the public safe.

Electricity might be good for the body in certain controlled forms and frequencies but it is not a good idea to use the commercial system in the manner you prescribe.

Maybe I got the gist of your post wrong? Ya, maybe I did. Sorry if that is the case.

Bubu
8th June 2013, 01:14
Working on electrical systems with the power on is not a safe working practice. Always turn off the main source before starting work.

Thanks for clarifying as others maybe encourage to do the same. I only do this under extreme conditions when the power has to stay on. I am only using it as an example to point out that the body is a conducting path for electricity.

Never fuse a ground or a neutral. This can cause serious problems in the system, including unacceptably high voltages, out of phase current surges, electrical equipment failure - and death.


What I am saying is fuse the body not the ground. Seems I am lacking in English skills.

Electricity might be good for the body in certain controlled forms and frequencies but it is not a good idea to use the commercial system in the manner you prescribe.

crank type electrical massage machine works by actually passing 20 to 40 volts thru the body my estimate only I tried it but did not ask whether if it is ac or dc. On one occasion another exhibitor had a hypertension. So he was hook up into the machine, 45 min into it his BP was normal and was hook down after one hour.

Is this your description of commercial system? I do not actually know what frequencies this device operates but I know it works. it seems to me that you have a very good idea how this device operates that you are able to dismiss it as not advisable.

thanks for the thoughts

Ernie Nemeth
8th June 2013, 01:15
By the way, electric welders are DC powered equipment. DC is direct current. 72 volts DC is about equivalent to 72 * 1/RMS (root mean square). So 72 * 1.707 = 122.9 volts AC equivalent! That is quite a kick.

Also, if you are so afraid of protecting yourself with a ground strap, then don't wear one. Putting a fuse in the wrist ground serves to render the ground ineffective - you might as well not be wearing it. The idea of safety straps such as these is to reduce the risk, in case of an emergency, of any unwanted current from reaching your heart.

Best to learn to work with one hand behind your back when working on live equipment, this also limits the chances of electrocution across the heart. Or just shut off the power and work safely.

Bubu
8th June 2013, 01:58
By the way, electric welders are DC powered equipment. DC is direct current. 72 volts DC is about equivalent to 72 * 1/RMS (root mean square). So 72 * 1.707 = 122.9 volts AC equivalent! That is quite a kick.

Seems you are quite good at electricity but how come you did not know there are ac welders I use to have six of them.

Best to learn to work with one hand behind your back when working on live equipment, this also limits the chances of electrocution across the heart. Or just shut off the power and work safely.

Thanks for the advice. cheers

Ernie Nemeth
8th June 2013, 02:13
Nature:
Seems you are quite good at electricity but how come you did not know there are ac welders I use to have six of them.


I'm not a welder. I only service them when called upon to do so. Are you talking mig and tig welders? No idea really. I do not know much of anything, but a little about everything - that's my specialty. Would really like to know, though. Are there AC welders? Seems improbable but not impossible. Most welders have an inverter to convert AC to DC. An AC welder, with constantly changing voltage to current aspects seems counter-productive in a sustained high-potential plasma arc. But like I said, I'm not a welder.

Can you enlighten?

Ernie Nemeth
8th June 2013, 02:17
Answered my own question. Googled it and you are quite right, there are indeed AC welders. I stand corrected.
Learn something new every day.

Wikipedia:
Arc welding is a type of welding that uses a welding power supply to create an electric arc between an electrode and the base material to melt the metals at the welding point. They can use either direct (DC) or alternating (AC) current, and consumable or non-consumable electrodes. The welding region is usually protected by some type of shielding gas, vapor, or slag. Arc welding processes may be manual, semi-automatic, or fully automated. First developed in the early part of the 20th century, arc welding became commercially important in shipbuilding during the Second World War. Today it remains an important process for the fabrication of steel structures and vehicles.

Czarek
8th June 2013, 02:42
I saw this video yesterday publish here.

Can you please post a link to this video you are refering to? Thanks

Bubu
8th June 2013, 21:18
Ya sorry slip my mind


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTX2fuYIo94
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59695-Earthing-the-body.

Bubu
8th June 2013, 21:23
hi Ernie,

Also, if you are so afraid of protecting yourself with a ground strap, then don't wear one. Putting a fuse in the wrist ground serves to render the ground ineffective - you might as well not be wearing it. The idea of safety straps such as these is to reduce the risk, in case of an emergency, of any unwanted current from reaching your heart.

Seems you are missing the whole point way off. I am talking of grounding as discuss here http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59695-Earthing-the-body.

Sorry I should have posted the link and you should understand first commenting.

meat suit
9th June 2013, 09:09
you could also earth yourself by attaching a wire to the radiators (heating) as these will be earthed . but they are usually also connected to the house's electricity earth .... so is any other devices case ie. kettle, toaster, cooker...you name it... all goes back to the same earth in the end.

Ernie Nemeth
17th June 2013, 08:55
Thanks Nature. I call this grounding. I use my staff for this purpose. Another good way to ground is to touch a tree or sit with your back against one. Another thing I really liked but haven`t done in a long while is lay down and watch the clouds - or the stars. Purposeful grounding can be acheived in meditation as well. Or engage a child in conversation. These are all grounding activities and is in harmony with..nature and Mother Earth.

Ernie Nemeth
17th June 2013, 09:19
As for grounding yourself to the system ground...

Not a good idea, imo. The reasons are many. In most older homes and buildings the circuits have been worked on by both professionals and week-end warriors alike. Often, a very common mistake can occur where the wrong neutral is used as the return path to the panel board. This causes what`s known as feedback currents and it can become quite a nuisance. These feedback currents can cause potentials to ground known as transient voltages. A very complicated background signal (noise) can then build up in a system.

Add to this that in North America there is a quiet little conspiracy about utility companies undersizing the neutral to cut costs, and you are left with a system very susceptible to a thing called the `dirty ground`. In every incoming supply to a distribution panel board there is a special connection made fusing the neutral to ground. This is code. Since the neutral is undersized a condition can occur where the ground must take the returning current. This causes varying potentials to ground and can cause back-surges of high potential.

End result is that anywhere such a dirty ground condition exists, which is almost everywhere in North America, huge magnetic fields are created around outlets and most especially switches, including the panel board itself. In such a situation sleeping on a bed of highly conductive, low impedance material is not a good idea.

If it is a clean system, that might be another story. But to clean a system requires an expert to come in and look over your wiring, install an isolated, oversized ground and break the water-main conductive path by installing a special non-conductive fitting underground. It can be done but it`s a bit pricey.

Bubu
17th June 2013, 15:44
Not a good idea, imo. The reasons are many. In most older homes and buildings the circuits have been worked on by both professionals and week-end warriors alike. Often, a very common mistake can occur where the wrong neutral is used as the return path to the panel board. This causes what`s known as feedback currents and it can become quite a nuisance. These feedback currents can cause potentials to ground known as transient voltages. A very complicated background signal (noise) can then build up in a system.

Add to this that in North America there is a quiet little conspiracy about utility companies undersizing the neutral to cut costs, and you are left with a system very susceptible to a thing called the `dirty ground`. In every incoming supply to a distribution panel board there is a special connection made fusing the neutral to ground. This is code. Since the neutral is undersized a condition can occur where the ground must take the returning current. This causes varying potentials to ground and can cause back-surges of high potential.

End result is that anywhere such a dirty ground condition exists, which is almost everywhere in North America, huge magnetic fields are created around outlets and most especially switches, including the panel board itself. In such a situation sleeping on a bed of highly conductive, low impedance material is not a good idea.

If it is a clean system, that might be another story. But to clean a system requires an expert to come in and look over your wiring, install an isolated, oversized ground and break the water-main conductive path by installing a special non-conductive fitting underground. It can be done but it`s a bit pricey.

I totally agree with you however there are people who insist that it is new science, so for their sake I came up with fusing the body ground. With a fuse in the line a person has greatly increase his safety against unwanted electrocution. But even with a fuse I would not do it still because the grid electricity frequency is different from that of the environment. People have different perspective.

Ernie Nemeth
18th June 2013, 12:40
It may protect against a sudden surge or spike of voltage but it is hooked into the ground so if the ground is of sufficient size, as determined by code, it will provide all the necessary path-to-ground protection. The best way to protect against a surge is to purchase a surge suppressor breaker for the panel board itself. Cost is considerable but it is very effective. Or you can purchase a smaller surge suppressor for just one circuit in the panel, and reduce the costs.

It will do nothing for the magnetic fields produced because of a dirty ground or faulty neutral loading. In this situation, isolating the main neutral connection can help but it runs into many hundreds of dollars, usually reserved for agricultural systems like dairy barns.

markpierre
18th June 2013, 12:44
I always bite really hard into a tree. Whatever I'm doing.

Ernie Nemeth
26th June 2013, 15:52
Mark: I just pictured you with a toothpick in your mouth...or a popsicle stick...haha - constant grounding!