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Camilo
11th June 2013, 15:47
Lately I've seen this more than ever on many threads in PA.

The purpose of a troll is not to intelligently discuss various issues but to minimize the importance of dissenting opinions by ridiculing serious participants expressing views the troll finds objectionable.

Criteria for helping to identify a professional troll:

1) The person’s posts are usually short and snarky, with reasonably correct spelling, grammar and punctuation, suggesting both intelligence and education.

2) The posts are on the edge of acceptability, with little or no profanity or vulgar language that would get the post flagged immediately.

3) The person’s posts are consistently belittling, rather than intelligent objections and points.

So, you will know them by their fruits.

Paul
11th June 2013, 16:19
Perhaps so ... but specific evidence is more useful than broad spectrum paranoia.

You might try Reporting (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/buttons/report-40b.png) suspect posts. In cases such as you describe, we would often take no visible action at all on the basis of one or a few reports. But over time, useful patterns might become clear to us that we might otherwise have missed.

In general I suspect however, such short posts should not be as serious a distraction as more substantive posts that are made in good faith, but inadvertently spread some layer of misdirection.

The only real "cure" is for each of us to continue to do the best we can to improve our own powers of discrimination, and to continue to do the best we can to post good stuff.

christian
11th June 2013, 16:26
Hey Camilo, here's what I'd suggest you could do if you notice what you would consider as trolling:

a) Don't let yourself be trolled.
b) Please report the case(s).

We surely don't want any trolls to feel at home here. :)

This is of course also mentioned in the guidelines (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/faq.php?faq=avalonguidelines#faq_membershipguideli nes):


An internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion. Members who engage in trolling risk losing their membership and posting rights. SEE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Paul beat me to it. :second:

eric charles
11th June 2013, 16:48
Ok I will be honest here , I sort of feel a few fingers pointed at me here , I know I can be brute sometimes , and I do apologize for that sincerley .

But when I see nonsense being spread and flat out B.S trivial things , it annoys the heck out of me and it is my nature to rattle peoples and inject a bit of logic sometimes to bring them back on the ground .

Please do not take this personally it may sound like I am mean , but I am not , it is very hard to know the nature of a person while talking on a forum because of the non facial emotions and voice expressions .

I am raised French Canadian and we are raised a very bit much how should I say rougher and to the POINT then most cultures , we have less patience and we like to cut the crap and get to the point . I'm the kind of guy you LOVE or HATE , you will have to take me the way I am or avoid me altogether .

So if any of you have ever been flamed by me , it is not my intention to piss anyone off , but you must admit , we talk alot of non sense sometimes , I just like to have things a little more down to earth .

Thank you

Camilo
11th June 2013, 17:16
The mods at PA generally do a terrific job detecting and stopping things from getting out of hand.

I'm not paranoid, nor being trolled myself, I'm just commenting on something I've noticed lately. In every international forum there will always be this kind of behavior here and there. If I ever see any verbal abuse directed to me or someone else, you can count on the fact I will report it.

eric charles
11th June 2013, 17:20
Well, can we have a little bit more detail Camilo ? Just be honest and say it like it is please

marlowe
11th June 2013, 17:26
In my humble opinion Project Avalon has very little trolling compared to some
other forums on the web.
I recently started my Crimial Last Names thread on a forum and it was trolled
so hard the mods locked it & put in what they called their trash section...

I've almost given up on the David Icke forum...AND there is a forum called Unexplained- Mysteries that seems to be moderated by shills & controlled by
agressive trolls.

Sometimes it's hard to ignore trolls but you have to remember that trolls are obvious to most people here.....So it's not like the trolls are fooling very many people.:biggrin1:

Flash
11th June 2013, 17:55
Ok I will be honest here , I sort of feel a few fingers pointed at me here , I know I can be brute sometimes , and I do apologize for that sincerley .

But when I see nonsense being spread and flat out B.S trivial things , it annoys the heck out of me and it is my nature to rattle peoples and inject a bit of logic sometimes to bring them back on the ground .

Please do not take this personally it may sound like I am mean , but I am not , it is very hard to know the nature of a person while talking on a forum because of the non facial emotions and voice expressions .

I am raised French Canadian and we are raised a very bit much how should I say rougher and to the POINT then most cultures , we have less patience and we like to cut the crap and get to the point . I'm the kind of guy you LOVE or HATE , you will have to take me the way I am or avoid me altogether .

So if any of you have ever been flamed by me , it is not my intention to piss anyone off , but you must admit , we talk alot of non sense sometimes , I just like to have things a little more down to earth .

Thank you

You must not have been raised in Quebec City, they are far from direct, or to the point, it is a government culture there. So I do not agree with the rougher and to the point stuff (unless you are from Lac St-Jean), moslty when compared with the Southern US belt or the midwest in USA.

And yes I have seen sharp judgments from you that were, in my French Canadian raised up opinion, not useful nor empathetic. But ok, it is you, I will take you as you are.

I am also surprised that you have been raised French Canadian, I wonder from where you are because your handling of the French language, although I admit you do know the language, is grammatically quite shaky, you sounded more like an English speaker writing spoken French (not written French) with a reverse grammar at times. I really thought you were an English Canadian from Montreal for example.

So, get the truth out on your side too Eric. I do not think you are a throll however, just very direct and opinionated.

eric charles
11th June 2013, 17:59
Ok I will be honest here , I sort of feel a few fingers pointed at me here , I know I can be brute sometimes , and I do apologize for that sincerley .

But when I see nonsense being spread and flat out B.S trivial things , it annoys the heck out of me and it is my nature to rattle peoples and inject a bit of logic sometimes to bring them back on the ground .

Please do not take this personally it may sound like I am mean , but I am not , it is very hard to know the nature of a person while talking on a forum because of the non facial emotions and voice expressions .

I am raised French Canadian and we are raised a very bit much how should I say rougher and to the POINT then most cultures , we have less patience and we like to cut the crap and get to the point . I'm the kind of guy you LOVE or HATE , you will have to take me the way I am or avoid me altogether .

So if any of you have ever been flamed by me , it is not my intention to piss anyone off , but you must admit , we talk alot of non sense sometimes , I just like to have things a little more down to earth .

Thank you

You must not have been raised in Quebec City, they are far from direct, or to the point, it is a government culture there. So I do not agree with the rougher and to the point stuff (unless you are from Lac St-Jean), moslty when compared with the Southern US belt or the midwest in USA.

And yes I have seen sharp judgments from you that were, in my French Canadian raised up opinion, not useful nor empathetic. But ok, it is you, I will take you as you are.

I am also surprised that you have been raised French Canadian, I wonder from where you are because your handling of the French language, although I admit you do know the language, is grammatically quite shaky, you sounded more like an English speaker writing spoken French (not written French) with a reverse grammar at times. I really thought you were an English Canadian from Montreal for example.

So, get the truth out on your side too Eric. I do not think you are a throll however, just very direct and opinionated.

Born and Raised in Northern Ontario , true French Canadian

eric charles
11th June 2013, 18:10
I have just unsuscribed from Avalon , I bid you all farewell in your endeavors . I will let you all in peace now .


A plus Flash !

Flash
11th June 2013, 18:19
Ok I will be honest here , I sort of feel a few fingers pointed at me here , I know I can be brute sometimes , and I do apologize for that sincerley .

But when I see nonsense being spread and flat out B.S trivial things , it annoys the heck out of me and it is my nature to rattle peoples and inject a bit of logic sometimes to bring them back on the ground .

Please do not take this personally it may sound like I am mean , but I am not , it is very hard to know the nature of a person while talking on a forum because of the non facial emotions and voice expressions .

I am raised French Canadian and we are raised a very bit much how should I say rougher and to the POINT then most cultures , we have less patience and we like to cut the crap and get to the point . I'm the kind of guy you LOVE or HATE , you will have to take me the way I am or avoid me altogether .

So if any of you have ever been flamed by me , it is not my intention to piss anyone off , but you must admit , we talk alot of non sense sometimes , I just like to have things a little more down to earth .

Thank you

You must not have been raised in Quebec City, they are far from direct, or to the point, it is a government culture there. So I do not agree with the rougher and to the point stuff (unless you are from Lac St-Jean), moslty when compared with the Southern US belt or the midwest in USA.

And yes I have seen sharp judgments from you that were, in my French Canadian raised up opinion, not useful nor empathetic. But ok, it is you, I will take you as you are.

I am also surprised that you have been raised French Canadian, I wonder from where you are because your handling of the French language, although I admit you do know the language, is grammatically quite shaky, you sounded more like an English speaker writing spoken French (not written French) with a reverse grammar at times. I really thought you were an English Canadian from Montreal for example.

So, get the truth out on your side too Eric. I do not think you are a throll however, just very direct and opinionated.

Born and Raised in Northern Ontario , true French Canadian

Lovely, now I understand, true French Canadian that had to fight real hard to keep the French language going. Sorry to have doubted you.

It was not necessary to unsubscribe though, just learning experience here would have been more than helpful to you and us.

DevilPigeon
11th June 2013, 18:20
I have just unsuscribed from Avalon , I bid you all farewell in your endeavors . I will let you all in peace now .


A plus Flash !

Why do you think the thread was aimed at you...?

I have to say, I'm puzzled why it was started anyway... I've seen no suspect posts, and I've been active more than I have been lately.

johnf
11th June 2013, 18:52
If i post something on the internet, my willingness to learn from the experience
is the most important part.
I tend to be as reserved as I can because I have several human tendencies that tend to get me in trouble.
I get over excited about things and hear things that weren't said.
I tend to get defensive about my points, and often I am trying to defend someone else, that is a big girl or boy, and perfectly capable of defending themselves if that is really what is needed or in learning, whether they do so, or not is up to them.
One particular time I had some of my posts removed, and I was relieved they were in hind sight that was not the type of person I want to be.
But I have enjoyed this thread even though it made me uncomfortable at times, and there are some lessons in how to keep this forum strong in it.
One of them, is to notice the people who have been here since long before I joined, and to notice that they have found value here through all the noise whether it be informational noise, or emotional noise.
Once you learn from it you have changed it into awareness, or as Bill puts it signal.
Allways sad to see someone go, but that is part of the learning experience.

jf

Soulboy
11th June 2013, 18:53
find out more at www.troll.gov.us

ulli
11th June 2013, 18:58
I have just unsuscribed from Avalon , I bid you all farewell in your endeavors . I will let you all in peace now .


A plus Flash !

I hope you don't leave. I think I have an antenna for trolls and it has never
gone into action when I was reading your posts.

What I would like to see when someone starts pointing out the negative aspects of the forum
that they are more specific about who and what posts prompted them to make such statements.

Another1
11th June 2013, 19:07
after more than a dozen years of trying to play nice with people online, PA here has struck me as having the most subtle and polite trolls yet ...

I've only seen 2-3 deliberate, overt slaps exchanged in my first weeks of being allowed to join in .... only been called a liar once... it has been refreshing and the cleverness of the subtle ones is almost amusing, they have to work-for-it here *s

johnf
11th June 2013, 19:11
I have just unsuscribed from Avalon , I bid you all farewell in your endeavors . I will let you all in peace now .


A plus Flash !


I hope you don't leave. I think I have an antenna for trolls and it has never
gone into action when I was reading your posts.

What I would like to see when someone starts pointing out the negative aspects of the forum
that they are more specific about who and what posts prompted them to make such statements.

I second this sentiment, and I just recalled somone else's words that sum up my thoughts better than my words.

If you happen to see this Eric Charles:

"Please don't quit five minutes before the miracle"

Peace and Growth

jf

onawah
11th June 2013, 19:22
The "ignore" option is too often ignored, I think.
When it becomes clear that a PA member is what I consider to be offensive, rude, trollish, or just plain ignorant, I often add them to my ignore list.
I only have so many hours to devote to the forum, so I have become more and more selective over the years as to what I am willing to spend time on.
Being a member from the earliest days, I have definitely noticed an evolution in my perspectives and my posting style and content.
P.A. has been for me a kind of classroom when it comes to refining perception, discernment and self expression.
I think it has been a very worthwhile pursuit.


One of them, is to notice the people who have been here since long before I joined, and to notice that they have found value here through all the noise whether it be informational noise, or emotional noise.
Once you learn from it you have changed it into awareness, or as Bill puts it signal.
Allways sad to see someone go, but that is part of the learning experience.

jf

RunningDeer
11th June 2013, 19:34
Well, can we have a little bit more detail Camilo ? Just be honest and say it like it is please

UPDATE: Just got to the 'unsubscribed' post. Please delete because it's off topic now. It was an encounter with Eric Charles last week.

Camilo
11th June 2013, 19:42
Well, can we have a little bit more detail Camilo ? Just be honest and say it like it is please

To clarify, this thread has absolutely nothing to do with you or anything you said or did at all.

InCiDeR
11th June 2013, 19:42
Then we also have the old famous agent trolls that we all like:


Mission:

Divide and conquer an alternative media forum without letting them know. Provoke disagrement and confusion.

10 steps how to do it efficiently

1. Study the object and its content closely.
2. Learn the natural flow and choice of words and what subjects that draw the members attention.
3. Create a new account and become a member.
4. Do not use same IP-range if you are many.
4. Interact to learn more of the members and how they react.
5. Make friends
6. Learn which members are the "hidden" leaders and whose words are considered valuable and resonate with many members. Learn their way of speak.
7. Befriend the "leaders".
8. Try to get a bit personal with the leaders.
9. Offer the leaders "enough" money or push the right triggers to take over their account, especially the accounts that been around for long time. Otherwise buy the account of anyone who is about to leave. Clone MAC and IP-adress.
10. Start the mission.

***

During all the above

Collect INTEL
Log every PM and interaction between the major players of the forum
(I promise you, you can not even fathom what technique "they" have)
Use the information wisely, sometimes "leak the information" under the right circumstances to create confusion and misstrust.


***

In 3-6 months, mission completed.

sigma6
11th June 2013, 19:45
As always... not an easy a thing to nail... I have been harassed by others, I can take any opinions, (and drivel) and give out the same if necessary. But when the attacker also has the power to manipulate my posts, Titles and threads because they don't agree with my "opinions" that is when I think people should take serious notice... especially on this site.

Other then that I think the biggest thing people should look for is to see just how logical and consistent is the argument and to listen to both sides to see exactly what is trying to be said and what is trying to be misdirected or covered up etc... and asking yourself lots of questions... is this going somewhere or it it just prattle? is this sincere? does it have a basis? logic, or is does this feel like a waste of time?... Is this person speaking in general terms, to flesh out the basis or principle of the idea, and then bringing it to a particular example (scientific method btw) or is this person speaking purely from opinions, with no comparision, context, reference, etc.

Does this person own up and acknowledge they are speaking from opinions? Do they differentiate between hard and soft speculation, opinions, feelings, references, etc... If asked and given the chance to provide further info, are they willing to extrapolate? There is no substitute for the reader ASKING questions, SINCERE and simple questions can and do provoke a psychological state of mind conducive to further logical thought. Whether answers come forth immediately or not...

That said, I'll say no more on my personal experiences because for one, they are largely behind me, (but I will now be eternally vigilant if I see any of it coming my way again. And those who were party to it have come around (at least one (Grip) and have acknowledged some of my work, so I do think they may have had second thoughts) and I respect that. As far as the others, they remain in silent denial perhaps, I can't be sure, but what can they say really, since the record stands (hopefully as I haven't checked the posts lately.... which was my whole issue of concern in the first place) I do make a point to avoid any direct contact with people that I don't feel comfortable with, unless I see something blatantly I disagree with. (but I will say some of the immediate responses to your post, confirm a pattern I still see as well...)

So I can only quote that memorable scene from Excalibur where Arthur asks Merlin "Where is 'evil' lurking in my Kingdom?" and Merlin responding "Always where you least expect it!" (haha brilliant!) i.e. Never say Never!

In any event I think those "in the know" know what and whom I am referring to, and I assume that the "abuse" of power was dealt with at some level judging by the relative decrease in "innocuous comments" on my posts, (which I came to learn were "setups" imo, ie. they liked to question your material but couldn't "tolerate" being questioned themselves...) That said, I have also had to adjust some of my output sticking to topics that were clearly out of their range, for them to even fake "criticisms" if they wanted to, so they were limited to "profound" lack of understanding (which grows old...) and/or kept my comments short and to the point, to avoid "gross misinterpretations" in general... (so don't knock all short comments either!)

In any event, the issue is a valid one and worthy of discussion, if only to maintain constant vigilance. But calling out posts based on some kind of "algorithm" is like buying those Forex automated money makers... they sound good in theory, but in practice just plain don't work.

Again if I see something blatant come across my lap. I will call it out. I think we all should. Just give it some value. A cheap shot has NO VALUE. An honest criticism, given in sincerity that speaks from the reader's own belief and experience with some kind of context can make a difference. At the very least people should be open to question things in a way that brings greater understanding of the information originally expressed. Look to the "intention" of the reader. Avoid literalism (words are all metaphorical often times, and no one is a Shakespeare... )

That is also why I have to a certain extent for now, abandoned posting to the Benjamin Fulford Latest Adventures Threads for the time being. After being told that Benjamin himself had instructed them, that it was NOW FORBIDDEN. Although I will try and start posting and will see if I can encourage others too, to maintain Benjamin's public posts.

Or use Camilo's and Kimberly's approach of having a third party post a link to the "illegal" post. LOL Funny how things bare themselves out... Same posts different posters. One is constantly attacked the other not... hmmm.... begs the question doesn't it...

But at least we have Benjamin's Posts on the map. And he is now researched enough for others to accept he is just as legitimate a source of insider information as any others without particular individuals on this site not even giving others the chance to make their own decision. I will call that a victory.

update: I hope to do the same with David Wilcocks work some day, as I think the criticism of him is unusually unbalanced and "without any valuable substance" as well... but that will be for another time... (haha!)

As far as spelling is concerned... how the heck can anyone not see a squiggly red line under a misspelled word!!!???? So I wouldn't be using someone's spelling to "find trolls"...

Camilo
11th June 2013, 19:55
I would like to mention that I just noticed that I joined PA exactly 2 years ago. Please don't let me be miss-understood, my experience at PA has been nothing but enriching and for the most part a pleasant one. I have even met some members (from different nationalities) personally and have a good relationship with them ever since.

In my humble opinion as well as that of other members, this is the best internet forum out there. I just thought I would comment on something I perceived within the last few weeks, but never intended for it to blow out of proportion.

sigma6
11th June 2013, 20:12
7. Befriend the "leaders".
8. Try to get a bit personal with the leaders.
9. Offer the leaders "enough" money or push the right triggers to take over their account, especially the accounts that been around for long time. Otherwise buy the account of anyone who is about to leave. Clone MAC and IP-adress.
10. Start the mission.

That's a scary thought, but by posting it, I guess that would certainly deflate it's possibility. I was listening to the Icke / Jones interview (scary what Benji is saying, I think he needs to have a face to face with them.... mind you I would like to follow up on his leads regarding possible connections, I won't discount it straight away either...) But anyhow Icke was saying something so universal... The power of all these manipulators is there ability to remain hidden, behind the scenes. Their deception is their most powerful tool.

An aware and constantly reminded readership is the best anti-thesis. So this thread is valuable in my opinion. Deception only works when those deceived are never informed of the deception. And Icke and Jones made a good point. Progress is being made, people are waking up. People are starting to ask QUESTIONS!

Inquiring minds need to know! remember that line? It has been entirely wiped out of mainstream media today... LOL
(now to check out that Bronfman association...)

RunningDeer
11th June 2013, 20:30
Originally posted by fifi. I’ve updated the second link.


"14 Characteristics of a Classic Internet Troll" (http://pluperfecter.blogspot.com/2011/08/14-characteristics-of-classic-internet.html)


(1) Posts inflammatory comments, not to engage in serious conversation, but to "grief" or annoy an online community.

(2) An obvious glee and elated satisfaction is aroused in them when people join the fight and reply to their deliberately disruptive comments.

(3) Copies and pastes large blocks of text to exhaust the readers of a topic thread, thus driving away legitimate posters of sincere comments. These blocks of text are often recycled and appeared on a variety of threads.

(4) Tends to avoid complimenting people who disagree with them, even when those in opposition to the troll make some valid points.

(5) Shuns any conciliatory statements like "You have obviously spent a lot of time studying this subject, and I'm not certain how to reply to your last remark, so let's shake hands, part as friends, and move on."

(6) Never ends a debate with "Thanks for the discussion" or "I'll consider what you say" or any other finalizing remark, because they love arguing and disrupting civilized conversations.

(7) Keeps an argument going a lot longer than a normal person would, to the point where people will start asking a moderator to turn off comments or block the troll. However, sometimes people will do this just because they can't tolerate contrary opinions and are angry at seeing them posted to a thread they enjoyed reading. The mark of a troll is to keep hammering away at a point in an obsessive manner.


(8) Acts innocent when called a troll, and states "I'm just stating a contrary opinion, and you can't handle it", but the reality is they are not innocent, they are trouble-makers who only post inflammatory remarks, rarely contributing any real value or good information to a discussion.

(9) Starts saying filthy words and making wild accusations when confronted. Their hostility and provoking rhetoric escalates when you ask them if they might be a troll or if they are simply trying to stir up trouble.

(10) When you mention the name of another well-known forum, Second Life, or blogospheric troll, they defend them and accuse you of not understanding that person because you're a tyrannical censoring fascist or whatever.

(11) Will try to bring up issues that they are angry about, no matter what the topic of a thread is. For example, they will say things like "sounds like the Open Source movement" or "reminds me of Tea Baggers" or "you're sounding like a typical commie libtard now" or "you sound like some irrational Creationism crank" or "you atheists are all the same", or whatever it is they're hostile toward, in an attempt to start a new argument within the current debate.

(12) When people realize or are warned that the person is a troll, and the troll is then ignored, and nobody will respond to anything they say, the trolling person tends to give up and go to some other thread. They crave attention and they try to get it by being obnoxious in a juvenile, or scholarly, manner.

(13) They use a nickname, are anonymous, or use a real sounding name, but do not embed a link to their blog or website in their name, as is common in comment forms. This lack of accountability enables them to get away with saying anything they want, to anybody, and even tell outright lies about what they saw or heard.

(14) They, when not confronted or exposed sufficiently, will seek to have the last word in an online discussion. When nobody responds to their last troll comment, they will proudly proclaim that they "won" what they fantasize as a "content" or "battle".

Blogocombat means friendly online discussions, as well as heated debates. I use the term "blogocombat" to refer to both. But where the rubber meets the road is when you have to deal with the internet troll.

There are no winners or losers in a civilized discussion. There are just people who express their thoughts and people who learn a bit more about a subject and improve their presentation of ideas by engaging in conversations with worthy opponents.

"Trolling" has nothing to do with sincere expression of contrary opinions or stubborn dedication to an idea. Trolling is all in how the comments are phrased and how the comment poster behaves, especially when confronted.

You know it's an immature attention-getting scheme when they respond quickly to every single comment posted in response to theirs, and their rhetoric tends to escalate in intense hatred, absurd rambling, and malicious provocation.



"Confession of an Internet Shill" (http://consciouslifenews.com/paid-internet-shill-shadowy-groups-manipulate-internet-opinion-debate/1147073/)

"I am writing here to come out of the closet as a paid shill. For a little over six months, I was paid to spread disinformation and argue political points on the Internet. This site, ATS, was NOT one that I was assigned to post on, although other people in the same organization were paid to be here, and I assume they still walk among you. But more on this later.

I quit this job in the latter part of 2011, because I became disgusted with it, and with myself. I realized I couldn’t look myself in the mirror anymore. If this confession triggers some kind of retribution against me, so be it. Part of being a real man in this world is having real values that you stand up for, no matter what the consequences.

My story begins in early 2011. I had been out of work for almost a year after losing my last job in tech support. Increasingly desperate and despondent, I jumped at the chance when a former co-worker called me up and said she had a possible lead for me. “It is an unusual job, and one that requires secrecy. But the pay is good. And I know you are a good writer, so its something you are suited for.” (Writing has always been a hobby for me).

She gave me only a phone-number and an address, in one of the seedier parts of San Francisco, where I live. intrigued, I asked her for the company’s URL and some more info. She laughed. “They don’t have a website. Or even a name. You’ll see. Just tell them I referred you.” Yes, it sounded suspicious, but long-term joblessness breeds desperation, and desperation has a funny way of overlooking the suspicious when it comes to putting food on the table.

The next day, I arrived at the address – the third floor in a crumbling building. The appearance of the place did not inspire confidence. After walking down a long, filthy linoleum-covered corridor lit by dimly-flickering halogen, I came to the entrance of the office itself: a crudely battered metal door with a sign that said “United Amalgamated Industries, Inc.”

I later learned that this “company” changed its name almost monthly, always using bland names like that which gave no strong impression of what the company actually does. Not too hopeful, I went inside. The interior was equally shabby. There were a few long tables with folding chairs, at which about a dozen people were tapping away on old, beat-up computers. There were no decorations or ornaments of any type: not even the standard-issue office fica trees or plastic ferns. What a dump. Well, beggars can’t be choosers...." [continued here (http://consciouslifenews.com/paid-internet-shill-shadowy-groups-manipulate-internet-opinion-debate/1147073/)]

Earth Angel
11th June 2013, 20:42
I am quite surprised to see you have retired after such a tough sounding response to the original post and many others I have read by you.....surely you can take more than that before leaving???



Ok I will be honest here , I sort of feel a few fingers pointed at me here , I know I can be brute sometimes , and I do apologize for that sincerley .

But when I see nonsense being spread and flat out B.S trivial things , it annoys the heck out of me and it is my nature to rattle peoples and inject a bit of logic sometimes to bring them back on the ground .

Please do not take this personally it may sound like I am mean , but I am not , it is very hard to know the nature of a person while talking on a forum because of the non facial emotions and voice expressions .

I am raised French Canadian and we are raised a very bit much how should I say rougher and to the POINT then most cultures , we have less patience and we like to cut the crap and get to the point . I'm the kind of guy you LOVE or HATE , you will have to take me the way I am or avoid me altogether .

So if any of you have ever been flamed by me , it is not my intention to piss anyone off , but you must admit , we talk alot of non sense sometimes , I just like to have things a little more down to earth .

Thank you

You really do not sound like the kind of guy who would leave this easily......hopefully you will come back!

Earth Angel
11th June 2013, 20:46
as for the original post I myself have noticed on facebook and on comments below news articles on yahoo.com that people seem to be extremely aggressive and in your face......cowardly (to sit behind your computer and spew obscenities at anyone who has an opinion they don't agree with) in my opinion, but also very unnecessarily rude!!
I am trying to read less and less of peoples comments like this and getting better at not responding to some one who says ' in other words go F *** yourself' to a very simple comment I made on a facebook page that claims to be about awakening people!

Bill Ryan
11th June 2013, 20:50
But when the attacker also has the power to manipulate my posts, Titles and threads because they don't agree with my "opinions" that is when I think people should take serious notice... especially on this site.



Hi there -- an opportunity to make a very brief explanatory statement. It may or may not be relevant or helpful!

Of the mods, it's almost always Paul or myself who amends thread titles. (All the mods can, but they usually don't.)

Speaking for myself only, I edit thread titles when


There are spelling errors or typos, which inadvertently make a thread subject less searchable. (A real example from yesterday: I corrected 'Bilderburg' to 'Bilderberg', so that a future search for the word wouldn't exclude that thread.)
The title really is unclear, and can waste someone's time opening the thread to see what it's about, rather than being able to see at a glance. This is the "newspaper headline" principle. Imaginary examples might be titles like "Look at what just happened to me!" or "You'll never believe this!" or "This made me so mad" -- etc. A thread title should, if possible, always tell the reader at least something of what it's about.
Sometimes, very rarely, I've amended a thread title when the focus being discussed has changed (evolved) from the original post. That usually consists of an extension to the existing title.

But here's what might have bothered you -- quite legitimately. :)

A little while back, I changed a title of a thread you started from "Ben Fulford's Latest Adventures" to "Ben Fulford's Latest Adventures (July 10, 2012)". That was a mistake. I'd NOT taken a proper look, and didn't realize that this was intended to be an ongoing thread of Ben Fulford's Latest [whatever he was up to].

This is because a title like "The Latest Forecast from Clif High" is not a useful thread title! Because whatever the "Latest" is changes from month to month. As I said, this was entirely my bad and my error, for which I apologize.

There was some discussion in the mods chatroom about this, because when a thread title is changed, the member who started the thread should really be informed by PM out of courtesy (unless it's just a typo). I had NOT done that. Again, that was entirely my bad.

So I just wanted to explain. There's no conspiracy there. Just occasional over-zealousness, combined with occasional lack of courtesy in not explaining properly what had been done and why.

:focus:

Rich
11th June 2013, 21:20
I am pretty amazed by 'erics' behavior he unsubscribed himself because he
thought he was accused of being a troll (when his name wasn't even mentioned)?
I think the lesson here is people don't always think about us what we think they think.

Billy
11th June 2013, 21:51
Whenever i got it wrong as a kid or created a drama out of nothing, As I made my excuses beginning with, Oh but i thought, My father would always butt in. "Well we all know what thought done"

I never knew what thought had done apart from thinking.

He would say, Be careful what you think pal.

Good advice for my lessons in life.

Please do not take others thoughts and words personally, If we take them personally it means you become attached.

Peace

DeDukshyn
11th June 2013, 23:19
Agreement #2) "Take nothing personally" -- people attack you for the issues they have of the image of you in their head that is the reflection of their experiences of you and not of yours. For, you do not actually exist inside their head or as the image they have of you. (unless you are a hallucination ;))

bruno dante
11th June 2013, 23:35
Everyone does and says what they think is right given their understanding of the world. Some people are just obnoxious. Some are bad communicators. Some are a little too eager to win a debate or a point and get a bit overzealous. It doesn't necessarily make them trolls - at least not consciously. I've seen some get accused of trolling simply because they strongly disagreed with another member.

One of the best and easiest ways to determine of one is a troll is to look at their body of work. If they've been reasonable and courteous for 100 posts, then I might view an outburst as passion, or perhaps a topic has hit a sensitive spot..and I'll dismiss it as that.

A real troll is usually a little clever. Subtle. Their "inquiries" are generally passive aggressive pot shots, and since they are technically within the rules they ice the cake by playing the martyr when they are warned or vacationed. I've seen this song and dance a million times, and the only thing I'm left wondering sometimes is if the "troll" in question is being a deliberate distraction or if they truly feel they are in the right. Some people are so unreasonable - it's not always easy to tell!;)

DouglasDanger
11th June 2013, 23:37
I am pretty amazed by 'erics' behavior he unsubscribed himself because he
thought he was accused of being a troll (when his name wasn't even mentioned)?
I think the lesson here is people don't always think about us what we think they think.


I could feel his anger in a few of his responces made on different subjects, much like the feeling I was getting from posts made a bit back by an "eagle woman", If he was hosting something he did not know he was hosting or not is another question, but maybe like all of us we need to take a step back, breath deeply in the nose out the mouth before responding or reading or participating any further sometimes. I do not think he was a bad guy at all I agree with him on some of his stances..

Anyhow, Hi My name is Doug and I am a Recovering Troll, like many people in the world I have a tendency to be a dick, say stupid things, comment when I have no real intellectual knowledge on subjects and generally become a pain in the ass on forums and gaming sites.. I have never been banned from a site on the internet for outrageous Trollish actions except on MSNBC ( One comment almost 10 years ago about how stupid people where who believed the tripe MSNBC has just printed). I do from time to time feel the need to lash out though but I have learnt a few things about controling my Troll withinn, this has helped me to not become the grueling wanna gouge your eyes out by my responses troll many here loath. It is called patience with others and a Quote from Thumpers mom, "Doug if you do not have anything nice to add or say about the conversation, do not add or say anything at all." So if I ever offend usually I'm not trying to be an out right jackhole Troll, I am having a bad or a Burbee day..

(P.S. Burbee is a term derived to describe someone whom is known to be intellegent but are acting mentaly challenged with the use of his or her actions and or comments.. Yes this was made up by a freind of mine in highschool who could not find a better term/word that would not offend mentaly challenged people, like the use of the word retard, so he started calling them a Burbee as not to offend anyone mentally challenged. A good description of a Burbee would be a man or woman throwing a tempertantrum in McDonalds because they are not getting what they desire from the menu.. ;) )

rgray222
11th June 2013, 23:54
Lately I've seen this more than ever on many threads in PA.

The purpose of a troll is not to intelligently discuss various issues but to minimize the importance of dissenting opinions by ridiculing serious participants expressing views the troll finds objectionable.

Criteria for helping to identify a professional troll:

1) The person’s posts are usually short and snarky, with reasonably correct spelling, grammar and punctuation, suggesting both intelligence and education.

2) The posts are on the edge of acceptability, with little or no profanity or vulgar language that would get the post flagged immediately.

3) The person’s posts are consistently belittling, rather than intelligent objections and points.

So, you will know them by their fruits.

Normally I stay away from threads like this, but in the last year they are becoming more prevalent. So for once I am going to speak my mind on this topic.

1. Starting a thread like this on a forum that deals a lot with conspiracies is like throwing chum into a swimming pool full of sharks, it serves no useful purpose other than to work everyone up and a few into a frenzy!

2. Taking the extra second to use the auto spell check feature and using proper grammar certainly does not suggest intelligence or education. It shows me that you are a serious person and you want your point of view to be taken seriously. This should be viewed as a positive not a negative. If you can't string a few intelligent sentences together and auto check your spelling, you should rethink being a member of a forum where 100% of the communication is in writing!

3. Not using profanity or vulgarity is a possible sign of a troll.........you have got to be kidding!

4. This is a good size forum, not everyone will ever agree on everything. Some people will be diplomatic in their disagreements and others will not. Live with it!

5. If there really are trolls as you suggest, professional or otherwise I would think you would welcome their input. If you have the facts on your side and you have a well thought out point of view, done a few minutes worth or research then they should not be a problem.

Making a statement such as...................."Lately I've seen this more than ever [Trolls] on many threads in PA" is simply meaningless!

I would suggest you take it up with a moderator, failing that be big enough to be specific. Say something to the effect of........I believe Rgray222 is a troll and here are the reasons!

I am sure I have not made many friends posting this but can we do away with vague paranoid accusations and stick with the facts or at the very least the specifics as you believe them to be!

GK76
12th June 2013, 00:00
The yell of "Troll!" comes from the mists...
The villagers search in vain for the troll and start to get suspicious of all around them.
On the defence, each villager tries to justify their actions even when they are perfectly rational.
The village tears itself apart not realising that the troll never existed, it was merely a misunderstanding, and that they had all become trolls!
Which one will be used as the scapegoat to quell the baying crowd?


Come on people, yelling troll just sets of a witch hunt... or troll hunt... you know what I mean. Stop falling for the same old trick. Build evidence calmly outside of the public arena, then tell those with the power to deal with it all the findings. One less troll, with little or no disruption.

Vitalux
12th June 2013, 00:09
I put my faith in GOD's hands.


However, while GOD might be busy with having to concentrate on the rest of all creation :ohwell:, I shall sleep very well at night knowing that Bill Ryan, and his teem of mods are fully capable of tending the Avalon Spiritual Garden.

I'm just such a huge fan of Bill's whole team of gardening angels.:dance::grouphug:

Wookie
12th June 2013, 00:20
Do not feed the trolls

Paul
12th June 2013, 00:23
I suspect only a few will be interested in this video I am about to present in this post, as it is an hour and a half long, and focused more on 9/11 than on Internet trolls. However Pete Santilli and Judy Wood get into a rather interesting discussion, with real live details and considerable experience from the both of them, in the latter part of the video, regarding how trolls and disinformation and other such tools are used to pollute Internet forums, spread propaganda and thwart the spread of truthful insight.

Pete Santilli - We Are Being Psy-Jacked - Andrew Johnson and Dr. Judy Wood

gTlZDmwJ78g
Personally I quite enjoyed listening, but 9/11 is one of my topics of interest, and Judy Wood is the 9/11 researcher whom I most trust.

Alan
12th June 2013, 00:24
Internet trolls are ubiquitous, it's virtually impossible to avoid them completely.

Just remember this one rule -- DON'T FEED THE TROLLS. This simply means, ignore obvious trollish behavior. When you react to their inflammatory comments you are falling into their trap -- they can't stand to be ignored.

Jake
12th June 2013, 01:08
DON'T FEED THE TROLLS

Bravo!!!!!!!!!!!!

21713

Christine
12th June 2013, 01:38
Being part of the mod team of Avalon is a great honor and lots of fun. Thanks to all the wonderful members who make sharing this community such a rewarding experience.

Any real troll on Avalon will immediately stick out or better still be reformed!

And don't forget to use (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/buttons/report-40b.png) button if there is something that needs to be watched or moderated.

mosquito
12th June 2013, 02:10
........ If I ever see any verbal abuse directed to me or someone else, you can count on the fact I will report it.

Oh really ?? I seem to remember YOU hurling insults at me a while back, (all because of your misunderstanding of my sarcasm). Did you report yourself ?

It's amazing, it really is, some people make an effort to start worthwhile discussion threads and they get little attention, yet a thread like this - totally pointless, now has 3 pages and has resulted in another member leaving (HIS responsibilty, no one else's). A distraction if ever there was one.

Posts 2 & 3 (Paul and Christian) give you by far the best advice for handling what you may consider to be trollish behaviour, far better to do as they say rather than make vague, unsubstantiated accusations against who-knows-who.

sigma6
12th June 2013, 03:10
Being part of the mod team of Avalon is a great honor and lots of fun. Thanks to all the wonderful members who make sharing this community such a rewarding experience.

Any real troll on Avalon will immediately stick out or better still be reformed!

And don't forget to use (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/buttons/report-40b.png) button if there is something that needs to be watched or moderated.

Thanks La Tigra (I think that is what I accidentally called you the first time ;) ) for this bit of info... would you believe all this time I had never actually considered what that little triangle was for... typical me, goes with my overly independent nature, not to see something like that... wish I had see that months ago...

deserves another bump

gripreaper
12th June 2013, 03:55
I know it's hard sometimes in "text", due to language without the benefit of eye contact, body language. etc. This is why we need to be extra sensitive. Good practice for "feeling" energetically actually.

The more often your intuition is correct on the internet, the more correct your intuition is on the internet.

Sidney
12th June 2013, 04:01
Many of us know ow to use our "GUT". Gut instinct is a sure fire way to KNOW what a posters intent is. I have my gut instincs, and usually they are on the money.
Someone who repeatedly debunks a specific subject matters, regardless of how easily they "seem" to fit in with the group, IMO should be suspect.
Follow your heart and the proof will certainly folllow.

sigma6
12th June 2013, 04:01
But when the attacker also has the power to manipulate my posts, Titles and threads because they don't agree with my "opinions" that is when I think people should take serious notice... especially on this site.



Hi there -- an opportunity to make a very brief explanatory statement. It may or may not be relevant or helpful!

Of the mods, it's almost always Paul or myself who amends thread titles. (All the mods can, but they usually don't.)

Speaking for myself only, I edit thread titles when


There are spelling errors or typos, which inadvertently make a thread subject less searchable. (A real example from yesterday: I corrected 'Bilderburg' to 'Bilderberg', so that a future search for the word wouldn't exclude that thread.)
The title really is unclear, and can waste someone's time opening the thread to see what it's about, rather than being able to see at a glance. This is the "newspaper headline" principle. Imaginary examples might be titles like "Look at what just happened to me!" or "You'll never believe this!" or "This made me so mad" -- etc. A thread title should, if possible, always tell the reader at least something of what it's about.
Sometimes, very rarely, I've amended a thread title when the focus being discussed has changed (evolved) from the original post. That usually consists of an extension to the existing title.

But here's what might have bothered you -- quite legitimately. :)

A little while back, I changed a title of a thread you started from "Ben Fulford's Latest Adventures" to "Ben Fulford's Latest Adventures (July 10, 2012)". That was a mistake. I'd NOT taken a proper look, and didn't realize that this was intended to be an ongoing thread of Ben Fulford's Latest [whatever he was up to].

This is because a title like "The Latest Forecast from Clif High" is not a useful thread title! Because whatever the "Latest" is changes from month to month. As I said, this was entirely my bad and my error, for which I apologize.

There was some discussion in the mods chatroom about this, because when a thread title is changed, the member who started the thread should really be informed by PM out of courtesy (unless it's just a typo). I had NOT done that. Again, that was entirely my bad.

So I just wanted to explain. There's no conspiracy there. Just occasional over-zealousness, combined with occasional lack of courtesy in not explaining properly what had been done and why.

:focus:

Thanks Bill for clarifying that, that puts a lot of speculation to rest. And I appreciate your forthcoming about this, and yes that was an issue.

However, what was making it even worse at the time, was that I specifically and more then once, asked Paul directly if he had changed it. Given his previous "correspondence" on my posts, I decided he was the most likeliest candidate, combined with his modifying other posts as you mentioned and as I observed. So naturally I went to him first. Simple straight up request for information. His response was incredibly ambiguous, and appeared a refusal to directly address my enquiry. (more ambiguity) Then there was a lot of subtle comments on my posts following (further ambiguity) I knew something wasn't adding up. In retrospect, I can't say that I felt like I wasn't being "played" against this backdrop of ambiguity. And it wasn't like I didn't make my query plain.

In any event I of course accept your apology, and thanks again for clearing up that "mystery" issue for me. It explains a lot, and makes me interpret that episode in a completely different light, very much appreciated. That said, a simple response from Paul when I enquired and more then once ... something like "no, but I can find out for you" or "Bill changed it" would have gone very far and avoided a lot of serious questions in my mind. But hey, no one's perfect eh... Thanks for the closure, as I said it is behind me. And I do already feel much better, in sound knowledge. No worse for wear, and it did sharpen my "forum awareness" (haha!)

Ok, who wants to be my "Kimberly" to my continuing BF posts! (come on now don't be shy....)

update: now that I think of it, I wanted to contact you personally, but thought it would seem too trivial, and wasn't sure if I should bother you with something, the implications being what they were, and I just didn't feel I had enough to go on... wow... what a crazy flashback

sigma6
12th June 2013, 04:07
Bruno Dante:

A real troll is usually a little clever. Subtle. Their "inquiries" are generally passive aggressive pot shots, and since they are technically within the rules they ice the cake by playing the martyr when they are warned or vacationed.

took the words right out of my mouth...

sigma6
12th June 2013, 04:48
update: I been reading a lot of the post here. I have just come to the conclusion, that there is a wide definition of trolls. Reminds me of taking a Customer Service course (one of the most mind bending "educations" I have ever undertaken... ie. scarier proposition then you may think) and we had to come up with 10 Rules of Customer Service... That is when I realized the vast complexity of ideas and words we take for granted. (If you would like to get a sense of what I mean, google search 10 Rules of customer service) in the end I 'discovered' a simple secret upon realizing the 'koan' with which we had been presented. I concluded that CS is really a form of 'christianity' which is really a form of 'eastern philosophy' which is at it's heart ... an expression of the contemplation of universal "compassion".

Not to get too off topic, but I thought "Trolls" were people who have spefic agendas, either paid or otherwise, to either specifically push or undermine specific ideas within a group. Not just unruly communicators with limited social etiquette. Anyhow that's my limited definition for now.

And I would add another. There is no perfect way of knowing who or where these "trolls" may lie, especially given the range of definitions. I have no doubt there has to be some trolls here. We just have to live with it (them).

But I believe as long as we have threads and discussions like these. And make ourselves aware, and willing to openly challenge each others ideas, I don't think we have anything to worry about. Think of them like germs. They keep our immunity strong. As they poke and prod and try to find a foot hold, maybe all those feelings we have are not so far off. We have to trust our feelings and correct them as we go along. To the degree we are honest with ourselves, (and others) I believe that this will only strengthen our overall perception and understanding in future interactions.

Thus trolls have the potential to strengthen our perception, make us more thoughtful, more contemplative. There is a healthy skepticism, and an honest inquiry. I like to always like to take opportunities to exercise my logic, etc.

And I finally I would add, I also like to "trade" (FX) and have learned from trading (both real and demo) to tame my 'fear and greed' and also to quickly realize the limits of my ability to 'read' the future. I highly recommend it to others, as a sort of 'discipline' and as an 'adult' alternative to solitaire and video games. I am lucky enough to have a mentor to teach me. He said "trading will emphasize your weaknesses and minimize your strengths" In other words it's not about closing your eyes and pulling the trigger, but about finesse and balance. And attuning yourself to another rhythm and cycle. And then making your move quickly and with precision. It has to be planned ahead. Calculated. And then journalized after the experience.

It is humbling. I am still learning. Still making mistakes, but I am now seeing patterns that I have looked at over and over for a few years now. It shouldn't have taken this long, but I was a doubter. So for me, perception or "learning to see" is an unending exercise in and of itself. A most worthy pursuit. Highly recommended. I hope this give some food for thought.

Bubu
12th June 2013, 09:48
Fact 1; The Cabal uses professional trolls to disrupt any internet forum that has the potential to expose their dubious work and/or has the potential to encourage people to come together and disrupt their operation.

Fact 2: Project Avalon forum is the number one internet forum which has the potential to accomplish the abovementioned.

Conclusion 1: Therefore Project Avalon is the number 1 target of professional trolls on their payroll.

Conclusion 2: Therefore there are internet trolls in project Avalon forum.

Fact 3: It is impossible to prove this allegation beyond reasonable doubt

Fact 4: We do not need to prove this allegation beyond reasonable doubt because this is not a legal court trial.

Fact 5: We do not need to gather data or debate in regards in order to be at least 95% sure of the allegation, just a simple common sense will do.

Prodigal Son
12th June 2013, 10:46
I don't read every thread or every post but as others have said, I haven't noticed much trolling at all on PA. The atmosphere on this forum is the most pleasant and conducive to learning and getting to the truth that I've seen in my eight years on discussion boards.

Other than that the only thing I can add to this conversation is that on certain forums you have a lot of people who troll in different ways than the "standards" described here.

I like to call it "pa-trolling".

Sometimes they are regular long-time members who have a certain way of thinking, are very respected by many of the other members who seem to have the same frame of mind, they never curse or break any of the forum rules, they articulate very well, they are exceedingly brilliant in many areas i.e. "science", but if you mention anything metaphysical or suggest in any way that human potential is far greater than what we have been led to believe, they will shoot out of the woodwork like a projectile within minutes to start attacking you in subtle and sarcastic ways that, like I said, don't break any rules, but the attitude and intent of what they are doing is obvious. They know exactly how to press your buttons and try to make you look like a fool. Then they will start asking you technical "scientific" questions about the subject at hand and if you do any research and come up with anything that disagrees with mainstream science you better not copy and paste, but you better put it in your own words. Otherwise you are just regurgitating another nut. But even if you do then it becomes your own fantasy and you are written off as a lunatic and a nut, without directly calling you that.

It's quite a talent, and these people are extremely reliable, like they are on a mission to keep any subject off the board that would help humans evolve spiritually.

They really put a lot of energy and effort into this, which makes you wonder about their motives.

You can even come up with verifiable scientific data measured by machines that has to do with human consciousness capabilities and they will find a way to "explain it away" and minimize the points you are trying to make as "pseudo science", simply because it would get thrown out of mainstream educational institutions, as if man already has the answer to everything. Yet they will be the first to post groundbreaking discoveries in the field of "science".

Needless to say, they are equally diligent in shooting down any conspiracy discussions.... and yet will be the first to admit that people are prone to conspire. It just couldn't possibly be going on at the top, because that would wreck their entire world view.

transiten
12th June 2013, 10:55
I you ever read this eric charles, thankyou for your quick response to my question how to deal with "mouldy vegetable garbage" in my compost.

It was my first communication on Avalon for a very long time since i've been struggling with Lymedisease...and now he's gone! I'm pondering what that might mean for me on a personal level.

I thanked eric for having started the "My little garden thread" a nice break from the sometimes depressing topics we're discussing here on Avalon. I'm now off to my allotment, thankful for having this possibility to be close to nature, longing to feel the soil beneath my feet, grounding myself to Mother Earth

Paul
12th June 2013, 15:29
However, what was making it even worse at the time, was that I specifically and more then once, asked Paul directly if he had changed it. Given his previous "correspondence" on my posts, I decided he was the most likeliest candidate, combined with his modifying other posts as you mentioned and as I observed. So naturally I went to him first. Simple straight up request for information. His response was incredibly ambiguous, and appeared a refusal to directly address my enquiry. (more ambiguity)
What you say is likely a fair representation of what happened :).

I haven't now gone back to check, but I do have a tendency to beat around the bush when I choose not to point the finger at others, but to be more direct when the finger points at myself.

I didn't spend 30 years in major corporations, including several low level management roles, without developing some "beat around the bush" skills :).

Carmody
12th June 2013, 15:37
I was just using this word in an internet communications context, so I thought I'd bring it here, so people can get a handle on it. Labels help, sometimes.

It is 'emotional brinkmanship' in internet posting. The undercurrent of it as expressed in posting.

Brinkmanship:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinkmanship

Brinkmanship (or sometimes, erroneously, brinksmanship) is the practice of pushing dangerous events to the verge of—or to the brink of—disaster in order to achieve the most advantageous outcome. It occurs in international politics, foreign policy, labour relations, and (in contemporary settings) military strategy involving the threatened use of nuclear weapons.

This maneuver of pushing a situation with the opponent to the brink succeeds by forcing the opponent to back down and make concessions. This might be achieved through diplomatic maneuvers by creating the impression that one is willing to use extreme methods rather than concede. During the Cold War, the threat of nuclear force was often used as such an escalating measure.

~~~~~~

When it is put in front of you, it has nothing to do with you in the direct sense, it is a trolling for, a search for... an act directed toward probing and nailing your emotional limits as a human being, in order to find a way to control the exchange and dictate your response to you. In the same context as a person may try to control the undercurrent of a conversation with a child, to control the given child by hitting them below the belt, hitting in the child's origins in emotional expression.

it is not always a Troll that does it, as some people literally learned how to interact that way, as a child, as their parents pushed that sort of crap at them and into them (and it probably became the undercurrent of the communications expression in their life) from day one.

But it IS one of the most common troll tricks for controlling a conversation.

ulli
12th June 2013, 15:48
I you ever read this eric charles, thankyou for your quick response to my question how to deal with "mouldy vegetable garbage" in my compost.

It was my first communication on Avalon for a very long time since i've been struggling with Lymedisease...and now he's gone! I'm pondering what that might mean for me on a personal level.

I thanked eric for having started the "My little garden thread" a nice break from the sometimes depressing topics we're discussing here on Avalon. I'm now off to my allotment, thankful for having this possibility to be close to nature, longing to feel the soil beneath my feet, grounding myself to Mother Earth

Hi transiten.
It's good to see you again. I'm so sorry that you are still struggling with Lyme disease.

Some people who are outspoken on lots of matters become used to getting strong reactions, and over the years they develop a certain degree of unnecessary paranoia. Anyway, I believe this is true in my case, and have a feeling that Eric Charles might be a bit like that, too.
So I do consider his leaving a loss to Avalon. I wish now that there had been a quicker response to assure him and put his mind at rest, but not all situations are perfect.
May his little garden give him lots of joy...that is my sincere wish.

Sierra
12th June 2013, 17:27
However, what was making it even worse at the time, was that I specifically and more then once, asked Paul directly if he had changed it. Given his previous "correspondence" on my posts, I decided he was the most likeliest candidate, combined with his modifying other posts as you mentioned and as I observed. So naturally I went to him first. Simple straight up request for information. His response was incredibly ambiguous, and appeared a refusal to directly address my enquiry. (more ambiguity)
What you say is likely a fair representation of what happened :).

I haven't now gone back to check, but I do have a tendency to beat around the bush when I choose not to point the finger at others, but to be more direct when the finger points at myself.

I didn't spend 30 years in major corporations, including several low level management roles, without developing some "beat around the bush" skills :).

I also think what happened is that Bill did his thing, but we did not know about it. There was no report, so there is no way any other mod/admin knew what was going on, unless they were active on the particular thread, back then.

So while Paul may have been fudging, he may have been fudging because the vague memory of what happened, did not include what happened.

And yes, we don't like to point the fingers at other mods. In most cases, things are done unanimously, and if the collective opinion is not unanimous, nothing is done.

So sometimes unilateral actions are under our radar, we just don't see them or know they occurred.

Sierra

Bubu
12th June 2013, 17:27
I agree with Ben Fulford that the internet have been spied on since the 90’s
With the Internet it is easy to conduct a profiling system whereby it is determined what topic/s interests a particular group or person. These trolls are given access to the profiling database so that they may know what particular subject interest a particular person or group. One of the most efficient strategies they employ is to draw the attention of the target/s away from the most relevant issues or subjects that needs covering”. This is done by posting on issues that interest the targets but away from those that needs to be hidden. If the pertinent subjects are covered their comment will usually give the “impression of what will be will be” or post arguments that barely touch the topic. These trolls are privy to knowledge, which are not easily accessible to the common person thus they are able to attract confidence. They normally project a high profile well informed, intelligent and patriotic character to attract attention and earn credibility.

I agree do not feed the trolls I do not open or read any post from suspected trolls.

Paul
12th June 2013, 17:34
I also think what happened is that Bill did his thing, but we did not know about it. There was no report, so there is no way any other mod/admin knew what was going on, unless they were active on the particular thread, back then.
The editing history of threads, posts and titles is visible to mods and admins ... ask me how, Sierra :)

transiten
12th June 2013, 18:24
I you ever read this eric charles, thankyou for your quick response to my question how to deal with "mouldy vegetable garbage" in my compost.

It was my first communication on Avalon for a very long time since i've been struggling with Lymedisease...and now he's gone! I'm pondering what that might mean for me on a personal level.

I thanked eric for having started the "My little garden thread" a nice break from the sometimes depressing topics we're discussing here on Avalon. I'm now off to my allotment, thankful for having this possibility to be close to nature, longing to feel the soil beneath my feet, grounding myself to Mother Earth

Hi transiten.
It's good to see you again. I'm so sorry that you are still struggling with Lyme disease.

Some people who are outspoken on lots of matters become used to getting strong reactions, and over the years they develop a certain degree of unnecessary paranoia. Anyway, I believe this is true in my case, and have a feeling that Eric Charles might be a bit like that, too.
So I do consider his leaving a loss to Avalon. I wish now that there had been a quicker response to assure him and put his mind at rest, but not all situations are perfect.
May his little garden give him lots of joy...that is my sincere wish.

Hi ulli and thanx for the welcome! The Lymedisease which i'm recovering from actually gave me a reason to take a break from Avalon that i really needed and it was not because of trolls but a bullying discussion that unleashed some very unpleasant posts. The absence and my healthproblems made me much more grounded and i'm not as easily provoked anymore. Also i don't have much time to spend here, have to focus IRL:washing:

Jhonie
22nd July 2015, 03:01
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NU6Pb376tI

Internet Trolls are Narcissists