Some lessons and observations from having been a Jehovah's Witness

[Kraut]

There are some observations and lessons I would like to share from my experiences as a Jehovah's Witness. Perhaps someone will find them interesting.

Most people have an idea that Jws are not your average religion, but they don't know just how crazy a lot of aspects of the religion are. There are far worse and radical religions and sects out there, but for a Christian religion it is more on the extreme side. Witnesses refer to their religion as „The Truth“, as in the only one true religion in the world. Whenever they talk about the religion they will call it the truth. It's funny, I remember being in tenth grade, sitting in a religion lesson my class had and the teacher was speaking about Jehovah's Witnesses. He mentioned that they were elitist, which naturally upset me then. Even my class members were not in agreement with that, perhaps an indication that they didn't see me as an elitist. Looking back at all the years I was a believer I can fully see that Jws are elitists. How else can you call a religion that waits for the world to end and God to bring about Armageddon so they can be saved? Meaning seven million people being saved by God, while the rest of mankind will meet their deserved end in fire and destruction and plagues, for being evil doers and worldly and members of false religion. There are many Witnesses who are humble and decent people, but in principle all members are conditioned to believe that they are in God's favor, while all other people, even the ones that aren't really "bad", are not. It is strange when you try to argue with them that a loving God would hardly destroy almost all of mankind simply for not being members of one religion, they just don't get it. You meet blank looks. Once you start taking a more clinical look at „the truth“ you see the discrepancies and before you know it, it all starts falling apart. Now, the leaders are aware of that I think, many members have doubts at some point. What is recommended in that case is that you research. To most people that would mean, you take a look at something, from different angles, you collect data, preferably independent data and then reach a conclusion based on evidence and facts. What research means to Witnesses is: you get all the publications the religion provides you, find material that relates to your doubts and then hopefully overcome these doubts. So truthfully it is nothing but reinforcement. You bury your doubts with more conditioning. There are many silly phrases used in such cults. One being “spiritually mature”. What a spiritually mature person is? Someone that swallows everything the religion/leaders say. Someone that reads all the publications, completely assimilates the views and ideas and makes these ones own. It is the opposite of what most would call a spiritually mature person. No room for critical thinking, no room for looking into independent information sources. None of that.

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Long story short. The life of a JW revolves fully around conditioning, or programming. However that programming can become obsolete and ineffective once you start seeing reality. Many who leave the religion become very bitter and hateful. What I noticed though is: conditioning and programming is everywhere. It may take less extreme forms, but there is not a single person on this planet right now, that is not programmed in some form. I had a lot of discussions with a friend who was also leaving the religion at the same time. He was bitter and disappointed with himself that he could fall for such a religion. What he never understood is that in some form all people fall for something, most often without knowing it. We all tend to stick to what we are comfortable with, information and viewpoints. It is evident in most people, deep down they know something is wrong. But they don't follow that intuition, they bury it. Every person holds on to some form of truth that they view as absolute. For many it is that their nation or race is superior and can't do wrong. For others it's their way of life. Something I have learned from all this is that we can't wake other people up. It is not our duty, it is not even our right. We can assist those who are seeking, who are in the process of waking up, but we can't shake them and make them wake up. It doesn't work. Years ago I ran into someone who at that point was leaving the religion. He told me about all these things he had discovered. I thought he was crazy, to me he seemed like a disturbed person, and I was comparatively moderate in my attitude. At that time I wasn't ready. Years later I know exactly what he spoke about and now I understand. Every person has to wake up in their own time, at their own pace. If we force or try to force it on others we may do more damage than good. Waking up can be like jumping into ice cold water, in darkness. It may be even more shocking if we push someone into ice cold water. Can we determine the consequences of that in advance? Do we know if a person is ready for that, if they could bear it? We can be ready though to hold a towel and some hot tea for the person coming out of that ice cold water.

The greatest lesson for me is to be careful whenever someone brings you truth, especially the absolute truth. Usually they are up to no good, or are delusional. And be careful with thinking you have the absolute truth. I thought I had it for almost all my life, I was fully convinced. Turns out that I was terribly lost spiritually.

That's all for now. Sorry for the lengthy post, I tend write long winded posts.

[Lifebringer]

Thanks I had a friend that left JW and blamed her naïve upbring/teaching on the abuse she suffered and kept taking, until I said, NO God would do this or want this for a Mother of two girls in diapers to use as a healthy loving relationship ordained by Heaven. She became bitter after leaving the guy who was a hard dope dealer, making her think he only peddled weed. When we found out he was actually poisoning communities and leaving the addicted soul helpless and families destroyed, he wasn't around doing it much longer. She was very arrogant and looked down on women, until one evening while I was returning with my child in a stroller, I saw her trying to get out of the deadlock door at the bottom of the stair entrance, and I saw him follow her down, and punch her in the eye. I went by quietly after hearing her screaming for him to stop, and realizing, she had just had a baby girl a month old, and he wanted a boy, and later found out he had tried to push her down the stairs while pregnant. Me being a domestic violence survivor of a "legally registered shot gun wedding phycho" called the cops on the corner, waited for them to ask to see her face and as they carted him off in cuffs, I waited until he had been away, and she came downstairs to give the children some sun. I told her, I was the one that called the police, and if she didn't want to talk to me, I would leave, but also told her I was a survivor of domestic violence, and she doesn't have to settle for this, to have a man or baby's father in her life.

Months and years later, woe to the man that ever raises her voice to her, because I truly believe when she is under the influence, she suffers ptsd episodes and will tear into anyone male trying to harm or dog her out loudly.
I still consider myself a Christian, but I don't follow the greedy megatv church motto of material value as a God to make one happy. I actually follow the word of Christ as he tried to explain to His Apostles, that what they believed, or thought they believed according to the priests at that time was not the true meanings of his prophets before Him. Some of them/the prophets did not even know the true meaning but were told to say or write these things down, for this time in our lives. The end of days has gone past and the beginning has begun, so let us do what needs to be done to heal the hearts minds, planets governments according to how Christ actually taught. Can you imagine if you just followed who spoke in the church every time you went, you would not actually be helping others, just those in the church, unless they "have the gigantic building fund" coming up.

I really don't think Christ wants enormous cathedral like mega churches, when the Earth's cathedral is so much the more beautiful.

PS:"WE all are clearing and thinking of the big picture and sometimes it just seems your rambling but if it happens often it could be a phychic attack and you can look up some of the post on it here at PA.

I sorta find my self rambling too. Could be it/they had a long wait for me to wake up and hear them and they simply have much to say.

[Observer1964]

in principle all members are conditioned to believe that they are in God's favor.

The life of a JW revolves fully around conditioning, or programming.

It may take less extreme forms, but there is not a single person on this planet right now, that is not programmed in some form.

We all tend to stick to what we are comfortable with, information and viewpoints.
It is evident in most people, deep down they know something is wrong. But they don't follow that intuition, they bury it.
Every person holds on to some form of truth that they view as absolute.
For many it is that their nation or race is superior and can't do wrong. For others it's their way of life. Something
I have learned from all this is that we can't wake other people up. It is not our duty, it is not even our right.

And be careful with thinking you have the absolute truth. I thought I had it for almost all my life, I was fully convinced. Turns out that I was terribly lost spiritually.

Thank you for your lengthy post, and tendency to ramble sometimes.
Much of what you said can be observed in manny religions and even science.
I think you are brave, stepping outside your box is not a small thing.

The only thing I fully believe is; The truth will set you free.
So all you really can do is trying to find the truth.

Knowing is the ultimate religion as long as you understand the difference between knowing and believing.
What may be relevant here is a psychological principle wich has to do with feeling save in a worldview.
And religions and science try to give you a worldview that makes you follow and thus control you.
(and make you pay a contribution to your controlsystem)

8W7cr1h-rH4

Imagine that we all discover that we are all out together in the darkness.

[Kraut]

...I went by quietly after hearing her screaming for him to stop, and realizing, she had just had a baby girl a month old, and he wanted a boy, and later found out he had tried to push her down the stairs while pregnant. Me being a domestic violence survivor of a "legally registered shot gun wedding phycho" called the cops on the corner, waited for them to ask to see her face and as they carted him off in cuffs, I waited until he had been away, and she came downstairs to give the children some sun. I told her, I was the one that called the police, and if she didn't want to talk to me, I would leave, but also told her I was a survivor of domestic violence, and she doesn't have to settle for this, to have a man or baby's father in her life...
What you did was very caring and really what Jesus told people, to love ones neighbor.


I still consider myself a Christian, but I don't follow the greedy megatv church motto of material value as a God to make one happy. I actually follow the word of Christ as he tried to explain to His Apostles, that what they believed, or thought they believed according to the priests at that time was not the true meanings of his prophets before Him. Some of them/the prophets did not even know the true meaning but were told to say or write these things down, for this time in our lives. The end of days has gone past and the beginning has begun, so let us do what needs to be done to heal the hearts minds, planets governments according to how Christ actually taught. Can you imagine if you just followed who spoke in the church every time you went, you would not actually be helping others, just those in the church, unless they "have the gigantic building fund" coming up.

I really don't think Christ wants enormous cathedral like mega churches, when the Earth's cathedral is so much the more beautiful.
For a while I considered myself as a Christian but not anymore, it feels limiting to me. All people are my Brothers and Sisters, regardless of what they believe or don't believe. I agree with you, fully, that Christ wouldn't want enormous churches. In my opinion from a more traditional Christian view Christ didn't come here to start a new religion but to free people from the boundaries of religion. The Jews were caught up in this system of rules and traditions, but caring and compassion were lacking. It didn't take long and the same happened to Christ's followers. All that we really need as commandment is to love God, self and neighbor. When we do that we need no commandments and rules at all. I think what Christ showed is a way of life, not religion, but unfortunately many only see the religious aspects but not the way of life. We humans tend to intellectualize things, we focus on scripture and interpretation instead of just living and doing. And being.

[Kraut]

Thank you for your lengthy post, and tendency to ramble sometimes.
Much of what you said can be observed in manny religions and even science.
I think you are brave, stepping outside your box is not a small thing.

The only thing I fully believe is; The truth will set you free.
So all you really can do is trying to find the truth.

Knowing is the ultimate religion as long as you understand the difference between knowing and believing.
What may be relevant here is a psychological principle wich has to do with feeling save in a worldview.
And religions and science try to give you a worldview that makes you follow and thus control you.
(and make you pay a contribution to your controlsystem)

8W7cr1h-rH4

Imagine that we all discover that we are all out together in the darkness.
Thanks. I don't feel brave, it's hard to explain but I think everyone here knows what I mean: truth is one of the most valuable things and searching for it is not really a matter of choice, we have this inner drive that won't let us sit still, we just have to search. Truth does set us free, but the way to get there can be hard and painful. At least for a while. It does come with a price.

Knowing is indeed the ultimate. What I have learned is how important it is to know yourself. What I know now is that I am an infinite and immortal being in my essence. It's hard to imagine that all my life I believed in the idea that we have no soul (immortal part of our being) and that when we die we are completely dependent on God whether we will live again or not, the same God who likes to destroy people when they don't listen enough. It's a doctrine where Jehovah's Witnesses differ with other Christian religious groups.

Thanks for posting the video, it is interesting. Beliefs do limit us often and I understand that many people feel that facing their beliefs could turn their lives upside down, however that may lead to having a better life, which is something you don't see at first. I'm sure that in time people will be ready to overcome that and have better lives.

[Prodigal Son]

Thanks for starting this thread Kraut, it's something I was planning on doing myself at some point, but now I don't have to :)

In a nutshell, the Watchtower is a microcosm of the New World Order. They even call their Bible the "New World Translation". Springmeier, as you know, has done an excellent job of linking the Watchtower with the NWO. According to David Icke, and I have not been able to verify this elsewhere, it was proven in a court of law in 1922 that the Rothschilds and Bnai Brith financed the religion through "Frank Goldman". Whatever the case, in spite of all their attempts to deny it, and even the ex-JW's deny it, Charles Taze Russell (http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/the_russell_bloodline.htm), the founder, was a Mason, and part of the same Russell family that founded, among other things, Skull & Bones.

I will have much more to add on this at a later time, but when a person first breaks free from the Watchtower Cult, they think they have been liberated, but in truth they are still very much captive to the same Cult on a world level... the same exact Zionist Cult that worships the same exact scumbag "God" that the JW's do.... the tyrannical warmonger of the Old Testament. Is it any wonder that they are tyrannical and love war? Is it any wonder the JW's worship the War of Armageddon?

And the bottom line is, the JW's and all Christian nonsense would not exist without the Bible as they have compiled it ... complete with outright changes, redactions and interpolations... channeling that came from the same cesspool as the Koran. All of the Abrahamic religions are Satanic and worship Satan... and so is it any wonder why we are in the predicament we find ourselves in today?

[Kraut]

Yes, I read about the Mason connections CTR had, it's not surprising. I remember another exJW friend pointing out what a friend of his (not a Witness) noted, who was at a Convention last year. She had the feeling that there was some form of mass hypnosis going on. That being said, I am glad to never have to sit through these awful three day Conventions, I always hated them.

I didn't know that the Russell family founded Skull & Bones. Just great...

The strange thing to me is how JWs focus so much on Jehovah, completely ignoring the traits Jesus showed of "the Father" or focusing on Christ himself. They really practice a form of Judaism 2.0 that is completely removed from Christianity. (Leaving out the matter of what to make of Christianity, which is a topic of its own.)


And the bottom line is, the JW's and all Christian nonsense would not exist without the Bible... that came from the same cesspool as the Koran. All of the Abrahamic religions are Satanic and worship Satan... and so is it any wonder why we are in the predicament we find ourselves in today?
To me the Bible has little value, I must say though that some take the good in it and let that influence their lives. I've met ex Witnesses who are still Christians who focus on compassion and kindness, not judgment and destruction. I've also met some who are the opposite. Interestingly the other day some (they have their own website for exJWs) admitted that the message of Jesus is covered with layers of man made doctrines.

Looking forward to what you have to say Prodigal Son.

[Violet]

Thanks for sharing, Kraut. You know, I don't agree with JW but I must admit I had some very interesting discussions with them. Very long ones too.

Aren't the Jacksons JW? Michael seemed like a nice guy to me...:confused:

[Kraut]

Hi Violet,
you can have long and interesting discussions, I've had them myself. On the other side. :)

I think that Michael Jacksons Mother is a Witness.

[Violet]

But if Michael's mother is a witness how does that add up to her childrens' lifestyle? Aren't JW more...conservative?

[Kraut]

But if Michael's mother is a witness how does that add up to her childrens' lifestyle? Aren't JW more...conservative?
From what I read the children were raised as Witnesses. Many children who grow up in the religion leave when they get older because the rigid structures confine them. I'm not sure if the children were "officially" Witnesses. You become one "officially" by getting baptized, which is a decision you have to make when you are old enough. Anyway, some get tired of the conservatism and live the opposite of that.

[Violet]

Yes, that makes sense. We have a community in Belgium too but I must observe that in the last few years it seems they've been less active at house doors....I could be wrong.

[Another1]

I spent a wonderful 5 years trying to make peace with these people after they hooked my first wife. I found that it did not matter that her spouse supported her fully and would assure she never missed an event, they insisted on the man becoming one of them too or helping the woman escape his evil. Which they did.

30+ years later in this small town, when they began to knock on my door here, I made a pamphlet for them telling stories from walking an independent path free of a church. They never came back. :)

While I admire the dedication of their pioneers, I wish they had a truer message to share with people.
I am happy for anyone that managed to escape their programming.
Thanks for sharing your story.

[Prodigal Son]

I didn't know that the Russell family founded Skull & Bones. Just great...
Here he is.... William Huntington Russell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Huntington_Russell)




The strange thing to me is how JWs focus so much on Jehovah, completely ignoring the traits Jesus showed of "the Father" or focusing on Christ himself. They really practice a form of Judaism 2.0 that is completely removed from Christianity. (Leaving out the matter of what to make of Christianity, which is a topic of its own.)

It's not strange at all, really. The Rothschilds funded it as an obedience-mind control prototype religion for the NWO... what do they care that it would take 150 years to come to fruition... patience is one of their very few virtues. Take a look at NSA... Then look at Brooklyn Bethel.... they want to control what married couples do in their bedrooms... I don't see much difference. The bottom line: They're all the same Pharisees Jesus was constantly calling a den of vipers.

It all goes much deeper than this... the Watchtower's dogma is mind-control based on Enochian Magick... the Four Watchtowers, the Tetragrammaton YHWH... all juicy stuff that I look forward to us covering here at length.

[Kraut]

I spent a wonderful 5 years trying to make peace with these people after they hooked my first wife. I found that it did not matter that her spouse supported her fully and would assure she never missed an event, they insisted on the man becoming one of them too or helping the woman escape his evil. Which they did.

30+ years later in this small town, when they began to knock on my door here, I made a pamphlet for them telling stories from walking an independent path free of a church. They never came back. :)

While I admire the dedication of their pioneers, I wish they had a truer message to share with people.
I am happy for anyone that managed to escape their programming.
Thanks for sharing your story.
Sorry to hear they caused you trouble with your first wife. Read similar stories and it's always amazing how selective they can be when it comes to marriage and how "holy" it is supposed to be.

Glad they leave you alone now. I can tell you, life without knocking on doors is much better. :D

Pioneers... don't get me started on them...


The bottom line: They're all the same Pharisees Jesus was constantly calling a den of vipers.
That's what I keep thinking too.

[Another1]

They're all the same Pharisees Jesus was constantly calling a den of vipers.

This is the part that really started getting driven home for me about 2 years ago. Part of the result is in my short bio here as I apologize for helping varied groups dispense the flouride over the years. The same monster seems to have created endless variations of itself, like a well designed computer virus. A pilgrim may think they are leaving one with help from another only to realize a short time later they are still wearing shackles.

And I really appreciate these words from above:

Every person has to wake up in their own time, at their own pace. If we force or try to force it on others we may do more damage than good. Waking up can be like jumping into ice cold water, in darkness. It may be even more shocking if we push someone into ice cold water. Can we determine the consequences of that in advance? Do we know if a person is ready for that, if they could bear it? We can be ready though to hold a towel and some hot tea for the person coming out of that ice cold water.

Blessings2U

[truth4me]

Remember spirituality is the key not religion it, religion, is used IMO to keep the masses happy that there is a "God" whom listens to their problems and such....I believe in a creator source not like the "God" in the bible....

[whiterose]

I too used to be a Jehovah's Witness. I pioneered for 8 years, dedicating all my time to preaching the good news to as many people as I could contact. I eventually burnt myself out and ended up with clinical depression. Because of the illness I had to give up pioneering, and at the time I felt I had lost my identity. Gradually though i began to realise that there was more to life. I had always struggled with some of the more restrictive ideas, and just felt that I was weak, and that if I could just rely on Jehovah more, I would do better. I met my husband during this time, and he was such a wonderful lovely person, and I had been looking for someone for so long, that I couldn't finish my relationship with him even though the elders in the congregation, tried to dissuade me from marrying someone not in the truth.

I made the decision to marry, and stopped going to the meetings. I still believed at that time, although I was having strong doubts. My husband has always been interested in UFO's and although I didn't really believe that ufo's were real I was interested in the idea, as I have always loved Science Fiction. I followed his investigation, and has been described, had the ice water moment when I realised that all religions were a method of controlling people, and that most of my life had been wasted, fighting who I really was, following an organisation that wasn't what it claimed to be, and believing a blatant untruth about the world, it's history and origins.

I was angry, but more than anything I was sad. Most of the people who are Jehovah's witnesses are basically good loving people. They see that the world is a mess, and want something better, and believe the solution is in God's hands. They work tirelessly to get that information to other people, putting up with persecution, ridicule, and being out of step with most people because they have a love of God, and a love of their neighbours. They love the earth and want to see it a paradise with no more war, no sickness, and everyone living in harmony. If you are 'in the truth' you have a ready made family all over the world. It sounds idyllic, and that is what attracts people, but not that many can cope with the restrictions, and 'regulations' that come with being a witness. In lots of ways the witnesses' religion is like the Catholic church, but without the pomp and ceremony. You are made to feel constantly guilty for not managing to live up to the standards that are set out in the Bible. They show you that the word sin means to miss the mark of perfection, so we are all constantly sinning, as we are imperfect. If we have doubts, if we see the ways that we are manpulated, we lack faith, or haven't studied enough, or haven't prayed enough, or relied on God enough. I agree that the large gatherings of the witnesses are a form of mass hypnosis, as is the memorial service, held on the first full moon after the spring equinox, the night the passover was celebrated in Jewish times. Interesting when you hear about the masons and the elite enacting rituals to the moon goddess. Anyone who has attended a memorial will have felt the atmosphere, and that goes on all around the world following the moonrise around the globe. The energy on memorial night is electric in every kingdom hall, so I'm sure that has some significance as a ritual energy thing.

I'm so glad I met my husband and had the courage to walk away from the religion to be with him, and that he has helped me to 'see the light' as it were. He's on the forum too, you know him as Daft Ada.

[mosquito]

I'm so glad I met my husband and had the courage to walk away from the religion to be with him, and that he has helped me to 'see the light' as it were. He's on the forum too, you know him as Daft Ada.

A long overdue welcome Mrs Daft !!!!;)

Thanks for this Kraut, (I'm struggling with addressing you as "Kraut" but never mind ...)

I had a spell with the witnesses when I was about 15 - part of a spiritual yearning which in no way could have been satisfied by the Church of England or the Catholics. Initially I liked their apparent honesty and unorthodoxness, but could never agree to the idea of knocking on doors to spread the word. Eventually I (and my mother) saw through the layers of fake sincerity to the underlying hypocrisy of yet another male dominated religion. This was all before 1975, and around 1980, I met up with a boy from school who was brought up as a witness, and I saw what the non-events of 1975 had done to the movement.

I have a friend who is a witness, 41 years old and still a virgin, waiting for Mr Right to turn up. It makes me so sad, because she is one of the nicest people I know, and she has given her life to what is essentially a big con. Despite this, she's still full of love and hope - amazing.

[Kraut]

I too used to be a Jehovah's Witness. I pioneered for 8 years, dedicating all my time to preaching the good news to as many people as I could contact. I eventually burnt myself out and ended up with clinical depression. Because of the illness I had to give up pioneering, and at the time I felt I had lost my identity. Gradually though i began to realise that there was more to life. I had always struggled with some of the more restrictive ideas, and just felt that I was weak, and that if I could just rely on Jehovah more, I would do better. I met my husband during this time, and he was such a wonderful lovely person, and I had been looking for someone for so long, that I couldn't finish my relationship with him even though the elders in the congregation, tried to dissuade me from marrying someone not in the truth.

I made the decision to marry, and stopped going to the meetings. I still believed at that time, although I was having strong doubts. My husband has always been interested in UFO's and although I didn't really believe that ufo's were real I was interested in the idea, as I have always loved Science Fiction. I followed his investigation, and has been described, had the ice water moment when I realised that all religions were a method of controlling people, and that most of my life had been wasted, fighting who I really was, following an organisation that wasn't what it claimed to be, and believing a blatant untruth about the world, it's history and origins.

I was angry, but more than anything I was sad. Most of the people who are Jehovah's witnesses are basically good loving people. They see that the world is a mess, and want something better, and believe the solution is in God's hands. They work tirelessly to get that information to other people, putting up with persecution, ridicule, and being out of step with most people because they have a love of God, and a love of their neighbours. They love the earth and want to see it a paradise with no more war, no sickness, and everyone living in harmony. If you are 'in the truth' you have a ready made family all over the world. It sounds idyllic, and that is what attracts people, but not that many can cope with the restrictions, and 'regulations' that come with being a witness. In lots of ways the witnesses' religion is like the Catholic church, but without the pomp and ceremony. You are made to feel constantly guilty for not managing to live up to the standards that are set out in the Bible. They show you that the word sin means to miss the mark of perfection, so we are all constantly sinning, as we are imperfect. If we have doubts, if we see the ways that we are manpulated, we lack faith, or haven't studied enough, or haven't prayed enough, or relied on God enough. I agree that the large gatherings of the witnesses are a form of mass hypnosis, as is the memorial service, held on the first full moon after the spring equinox, the night the passover was celebrated in Jewish times. Interesting when you hear about the masons and the elite enacting rituals to the moon goddess. Anyone who has attended a memorial will have felt the atmosphere, and that goes on all around the world following the moonrise around the globe. The energy on memorial night is electric in every kingdom hall, so I'm sure that has some significance as a ritual energy thing.

I'm so glad I met my husband and had the courage to walk away from the religion to be with him, and that he has helped me to 'see the light' as it were. He's on the forum too, you know him as Daft Ada.
Dear Whiterose,
thank you for sharing your story. I am very glad that you made it and could leave the Organization behind and that you had great support from your husband. We share a love for Science Fiction. Like you I also didn't believe in UFOs and extraterrestrial life. Looking back I am amazed at how many things I ignored because they didn't fit my world view, especially believing in mankind's history of only six thousand years. Please do not think that most of your life had been wasted, I am sure there were many good moments and valuable lessons learned. It wasn't a waste. And though you, many other Witnesses and I were misguided we did things with a pure motivation, we tried to serve others. That does matter. It was a misguided form, but we still tried to give of ourselves to others.


They work tirelessly to get that information to other people, putting up with persecution, ridicule, and being out of step with most people because they have a love of God, and a love of their neighbours.
This is really sad, it reminds me of some friends. They are a Pioneer couple, some of the most caring people I have ever known, genuinely caring, not the showy type. Every day is spent to help others, they sacrifice everything they are and have. They don't even have time left for friendships. It will be very sad when one day they realize how they have let their lives pass them by.


It sounds idyllic, and that is what attracts people, but not that many can cope with the restrictions, and 'regulations' that come with being a witness. In lots of ways the witnesses' religion is like the Catholic church, but without the pomp and ceremony. You are made to feel constantly guilty for not managing to live up to the standards that are set out in the Bible. They show you that the word sin means to miss the mark of perfection, so we are all constantly sinning, as we are imperfect.
What caused my most serious doubts was the increasing demand for obedience the Governing Body is asking for, they are becoming more and more extreme, and the doctrinal changes are becoming very transparent. It is causing a lot of Witnesses to take a closer look at things. The regulations were also something that bothered me, Elders seemed to be too busy with following and enforcing regulations instead of looking after people and helping them.

Something I remember from almost all Conventions, even while I was still a believer is that they made me feel very uneasy. I noticed how speakers try to push people's buttons and make them feel certain ways. To me that was annoying since I choose how I feel or don't feel. These silly phrases as "aren't we all grateful..." or "do we not have reason to be happy..." bothered me. I used to think that I'm grateful when I am grateful, not when someone tells me to.


Anyone who has attended a memorial will have felt the atmosphere, and that goes on all around the world following the moonrise around the globe. The energy on memorial night is electric in every kingdom hall, so I'm sure that has some significance as a ritual energy thing.
I was always very glad when the memorial was over. :laugh: The many meetings really weren't my favorite part of being a Witness.

Something I find interesting is that I have not met a single Witness who has never wondered why Jehovah acted in certain ways, as described in the OT. And what many don't like is Paul's silly rule of women having to cover their head. To me it was a great relief to realize that man and woman are completely equal and how the female divine principle has been left out in the bible. Things make much more sense now.

[Kraut]

Thanks for this Kraut, (I'm struggling with addressing you as "Kraut" but never mind ...)

I had a spell with the witnesses when I was about 15 - part of a spiritual yearning which in no way could have been satisfied by the Church of England or the Catholics. Initially I liked their apparent honesty and unorthodoxness, but could never agree to the idea of knocking on doors to spread the word. Eventually I (and my mother) saw through the layers of fake sincerity to the underlying hypocrisy of yet another male dominated religion. This was all before 1975, and around 1980, I met up with a boy from school who was brought up as a witness, and I saw what the non-events of 1975 had done to the movement.

I have a friend who is a witness, 41 years old and still a virgin, waiting for Mr Right to turn up. It makes me so sad, because she is one of the nicest people I know, and she has given her life to what is essentially a big con. Despite this, she's still full of love and hope - amazing.
The irony is how Witnesses like to rant about Catholics but they have become exactly like the Catholic Church. You get used to the knocking on doors, I never liked it but you see it as a... let's say "necessary evil". There are indeed layers of fake sincerity, I will illustrate that in another post. There's enough to get people hooked and then for many it's too late, they reach that moment where they turn off their thinking skills and just buy into everything. I am very glad that I could prevent a friend of mine from doing that. I had been "studying the bible" with him, which is how Witnesses call educating people to recruit them. But after my awakening I told him all about it.

Due to my age I had only heard of 1975, it was before my time. It was rarely mentioned, so when I looked into it for the first time I was very surprised. Most younger Witnesses and those who joined in the 80s have no idea what a debacle that was. The worst is that the leaders never even apologized for it all, they blamed the eagerness of the Witnesses, and it took them five years to even make that statement. When I started looking into the real history of the religion it quickly became apparent that it has a long history of failed predictions. And still they are all waiting for the end to come... it could be any day... My Grandmother used to say all that time that "we are at the threshold of the new Order" (scary wording as I can see now). She died a few years ago and never saw any of her hopes fulfilled. Sadly my Mother is heading for the same outcome.

Hopefully your friend will still wake up. Many believe that they can marry in Paradise, after the world has ended and everything will be fine. Since they expect to live forever then they'll have plenty of time to marry and have children. A big con it is.

[The Truth Is In There]

imo people's brains are like computers. certain programs don't work if others are still running. if you try to install a program that is based on facts on a system that is running on make-believe and lies you'll get an error message.

first you have to dismantle the current operating system by pointing out the obvious flaws, and only after the person running the system realizes these flaws for what they are you'll be able to start implementing the new fact-based software.

of course, this can be done the other way round, too. known facts can be replaced with lies and propaganda. this is the basic system running in the world today. if repeated often enough and ideally from very early childhood it will (re)program the brain and ultimately create a person that defends the lies their existence is based on against all common sense.

the problem we're facing today is that the majority of people is incapable of using common sense because their operating systems don't allow it. once programmed, usually in (early) childhood, the program keeps running until the host dies.

these programs are based on herd-mentality, not unlike a hive mind. the host bodies allow for change if the herd program changes because they feel safe and secure in the herd. they can't operate outside of the herd, on their own.

that's why the few are always able to control the many if they know how to do it. they don't waste time (re)programming individuals (those who are able to use common sense and resist flawed or disadvantageous programming), they only program and thus control the herd, and by controlling the herd they effectively control the uncontrollable individuals too, because if they stand up they'll simply be taken out by the herd.

this works with religion as well as politics and anything else, and the means to (re)program the herds are all in the hands of the same group of people/beings.

[Another1]

This thread has brought back a flood of memories. Thank you for the sparks.

One thing seems to stand out this time as I review ... when first meeting them I had things on the ball ... had whittled my Christian based view into something personal to me, pretty much as simple as calling it 'dad' ~ I just knew there was something bigger than me and certainly bigger than that angry god they taught me about in church and there was visible fruit in my life that this was working out okay.

This was the main thing the first JW preacher harped on me about. He insisted that I did not deserve any of my fruit and it was in truth just trickery from some devil making me think I was okay with god. As luck would have it, this preacher was a co-worker that no one else on the crew would work with. I was the new guy so I got him. He was adament that if I wasn't groveling before this angry, jealous god and begging for mercy, then I was serving the devil.

I think left over superstition from previous programming is what allowed this guy to troll me for so long.

Perhaps 2 years later, 1,000 miles away, I again had a JW Pioneer as a co-worker. He pushed the same things pretty much. If I wasn't groveling before this god and telling it how great it is, then I was serving the devil and taking my wife and children to hell.

It's probably fortunate that I did not know about the Goddess back then. It might have popped their lil brains. :)

[Prodigal Son]

Yes it is true that most of the JW's are basically good people who love the earth and want a better world, that is what drew me into it after all. But after years of indoctrination, and false Armageddon predictions, and frustration that builds up from the "disappointments", you begin to regard your neighbors as worthless fodder because they refuse to accept "The Truth" (TM) and you cannot possibly love them as you love yourself because according to your own beliefs, any day now they are going to become bird food (according to a horrid scripture in Revelation that says Armageddon will be followed by God's feast for the birds on their flesh)... and you long for the day that the earth is covered in blood up to the horses' bridles (another gem from Revelation) because the world is just so wicked and everyone that willingly participates in it is equally as wicked. You begin to hate your life because fun is not allowed, and you resent everyone else who won't join you in your misery. You can't understand why nobody cares about the Bible and Jehovah and all his promises and purposes for the earth. You misinterpret the scripture where Jesus says "take the narrow road" as talking about the Watchtower.

I have a feeling that IF the NWO finally happens, and to tell you the truth I think it must happen, only to show its utter failure and to be soon destroyed according to prophecy, they will introduce a One-World Religion where "Jesus" sits on the throne in Jerusalem and claims to be sent from Jehovah. Man oh man, the Witnesses will go for that hook line and sinker.

At this point I need to say, that I know that I am very harsh on the Bible, but I do believe it has many Divine Truths in it. But when corrupted with black magic it becomes a very effective tool for mind control, which is really what its all about. For example. according to Helena Blavatsky, the books that would be chosen for the New Testament were selected by leaving them in a catacomb under a table overnight, and in the morning the books we ended up with found themselves to the top of the table.

As for the Old Testament, I trash it because of the power it has had over people, but the fact is that it tells the truth right from the beginning, it does not hide who and what Jehovah is at any point. Right in the Garden of Eden we see who the tyrant and the liar is, and it's not the Serpent. Its just that people are deceived by the preconceived notion that Jehovah is the True God. The Gnostics were right, he is the Demiurge that enslaved us. However the even deeper truth is that Jehovah is the Divine Monad within you according to Gnostic Kabbalah but they gave the name to their Satanic God!

Controlling the mind is what keeps the elite in power, and its always been that way. Revelation is a great prophecy, but it was never intended to apply to the world at large, it is an esoteric treatise on the SELF. All of it symbolizes the internal awakening known as Gnosis. In fact the entire Bible was originally intended to do the same thing. Reading it literally, however, as they have compiled it, guarantees eternal sleep.

I chose the name Prodigal Son because when I tried to go back to the JW's in 1997 after being "inactive" for 15 years, I was not exactly received with open arms. It was after I learned that this religion was not "The Truth" (TM) that I really began to understand what the Prodigal Son was all about. There is no judgment, only karma, and everyone will eventually reach the Promised Land where our True Father in Heaven will receive us into his bosom.

I have also learned that Jesus summed up the entire Bible in that one parable.

[Kraut]

This thread has brought back a flood of memories. Thank you for the sparks.

One thing seems to stand out this time as I review ... when first meeting them I had things on the ball ... had whittled my Christian based view into something personal to me, pretty much as simple as calling it 'dad' ~ I just knew there was something bigger than me and certainly bigger than that angry god they taught me about in church and there was visible fruit in my life that this was working out okay.
That is what the problem is, we can all intuitively find our niche, that we can in time improve. But most people try to invade that niche and think they need to save us and convert us. Regardless of whether what we have already is enriching our life. You figured out something that many haven't. I think calling it "Dad" was brilliant. It keeps puzzling me how many Christians are absolutely okay with believing in hell and eternal torment. Even some exJWs who remain Christian start believing that. They talk about God being love all the time but sure like buying into all the "you'll burn in hell..." preaching.


This was the main thing the first JW preacher harped on me about. He insisted that I did not deserve any of my fruit and it was in truth just trickery from some devil making me think I was okay with god. As luck would have it, this preacher was a co-worker that no one else on the crew would work with. I was the new guy so I got him. He was adament that if I wasn't groveling before this angry, jealous god and begging for mercy, then I was serving the devil.
To my shame I was completely blind to the fact that many people in "the world" are actually better than a lot of JWs, including many Christians, who practice a more pure and compassionate form of Christianity. To me they had to be wrong because they were not in "the truth". So they would have to be taken out by the little angry and jealous God.

What's even worse and what outsiders don't know is that many Witnesses will even look at each other critically, questioning if someone else is going to make it or not. They like making distinctions and calling some "weak", which is the opposite of what Jesus taught and lived. In the last years of my being a believer I became so disillusioned with God that I was sure I'd be biting the dust when "the end" came, I was basically waiting to die because the way I saw it you just couldn't please God. Realizing that my religion and beliefs were a lie was a great relief, to say the least. It took a while to get rid of the worst of that being undeserving programming.


It's probably fortunate that I did not know about the Goddess back then. It might have popped their lil brains. :)
That would have been... messy. Or not, if the brains were little? :pound:




Yes it is true that most of the JW's are basically good people who love the earth and want a better world, that is what drew me into it after all. But after years of indoctrination, and false Armageddon predictions, and frustration that builds up from the "disappointments", you begin to regard your neighbors as worthless fodder because they refuse to accept "The Truth" (TM) and you cannot possibly love them as you love yourself because according to your own beliefs, any day now they are going to become bird food (according to a horrid scripture in Revelation that says Armageddon will be followed by God's feast for the birds on their flesh)... and you long for the day that the earth is covered in blood up to the horses' bridles (another gem from Revelation) because the world is just so wicked and everyone that willingly participates in it is equally as wicked. You begin to hate your life because fun is not allowed, and you resent everyone else who won't join you in your misery. You can't understand why nobody cares about the Bible and Jehovah and all his promises and purposes for the earth. You misinterpret the scripture where Jesus says "take the narrow road" as talking about the Watchtower.
Sorry, I know it's not funny, but I had to laugh. Sometimes religion is so bizarrely funny you just have to laugh about it. You forgot some of the nice OT prophecies. What made me hate the JW life was not really that I couldn't have fun, but that every week was controlled with all this nonsense activity, especially the weekends. You are not allowed to have a life. And then when the "new system" is there you'll have to spend who knows how many years cleaning up earth, getting rid of corpses and all the ruins. And then you still have to prove yourself in the thousand year reign while the "anointed" are sipping higher dimensional wine with Jesus and his buddies in heaven, having a good time ruling over all the folks on earth. Yeah, really great, thanks.

I remember reading a story that an exJW wrote about this idea of Paradise. It was about an Armageddon survivor and the madness afterwards, the control and power that Elders still had. He got so tired of it that he committed suicide. Then he woke up again and was surprised. He was told he was in heaven and that where he had been before was hell.
Not sure if you've read it: http://www.1timothy4-13.com/files/bible/diary.html


I have a feeling that IF the NWO finally happens, and to tell you the truth I think it must happen, only to show its utter failure and to be soon destroyed according to prophecy, they will introduce a One-World Religion where "Jesus" sits on the throne in Jerusalem and claims to be sent from Jehovah. Man oh man, the Witnesses will go for that hook line and sinker.
Hopefully it won't come to that.


At this point I need to say, that I know that I am very harsh on the Bible, but I do believe it has many Divine Truths in it. But when corrupted with black magic it becomes a very effective tool for mind control, which is really what its all about. For example. according to Helena Blavatsky, the books that would be chosen for the New Testament were selected by leaving them in a catacomb under a table overnight, and in the morning the books we ended up with found themselves to the top of the table.

As for the Old Testament, I trash it because of the power it has had over people, but the fact is that it tells the truth right from the beginning, it does not hide who and what Jehovah is at any point. Right in the Garden of Eden we see who the tyrant and the liar is, and it's not the Serpent. Its just that people are deceived by the preconceived notion that Jehovah is the True God. The Gnostics were right, he is the Demiurge that enslaved us. However the even deeper truth is that Jehovah is the Divine Monad within you according to Gnostic Kabbalah but they gave the name to their Satanic God!
In retrospect it is sad but not surprising how much of the JW doctrine is based on the OT, also many rules and procedures. No wonder they have a hard time calling themselves "christian". According to the NT they should be Christ's witnesses, but no one seems to notice that.


Controlling the mind is what keeps the elite in power, and its always been that way. Revelation is a great prophecy, but it was never intended to apply to the world at large, it is an esoteric treatise on the SELF. All of it symbolizes the internal awakening known as Gnosis. In fact the entire Bible was originally intended to do the same thing. Reading it literally, however, as they have compiled it, guarantees eternal sleep.

I chose the name Prodigal Son because when I tried to go back to the JW's in 1997 after being "inactive" for 15 years, I was not exactly received with open arms. It was after I learned that this religion was not "The Truth" (TM) that I really began to understand what the Prodigal Son was all about. There is no judgment, only karma, and everyone will eventually reach the Promised Land where our True Father in Heaven will receive us into his bosom.

I have also learned that Jesus summed up the entire Bible in that one parable.
It makes me sick to think about how often I read the parable and studied it at meetings, all the while not caring about the destructive policies in regards to disfellowshipping and shunning. Offspring of vipers...

Much love and healing to all of you.

[jagman]

A question, To a former brother or sister or anyone who
studied with the witnesses. Have you at anytime felt
Jehovah being an active force in your life? I'm not talking
about the religion.

[Kraut]

Jagman, that's a really good question, thanks for bringing it up. There were moments when I felt a benevolent active force in my life, helping me cope with problems or worries. Now I think it's unlikely that was Jehovah. I'm sure we have benevolent beings watching out for us at all times and we may blindly conclude that their help and guidance comes from whichever God we may worship at that time in our life. Besides that I do think there is at least some positive "spirit" or active force in most religions, which is why people don't see the perverted aspects of religions they believe in, the good aspects make them blind.

I'll have to think about your question some more.

[whiterose]

yes I would totally agree with Kraut, I regularly felt that I had prayers answered, and of course attributed those answers to Jehovah, but I realise now its more about the Universe providing what we really need, manifesting our desires, and intentions, which is why most people who believe in a higher power all seem to get their prayers answered. I felt very strongly that meeting my husband was an answer to prayers, but of course the elders in the congregation were adamant that was impossible as Jehovah wouldn't answer that prayer with someone that wasn't a witness. I always found it strange that witnesses had answers to prayers, but anyone else who thought that were deluded, either it was Satan fooling them or it was co-incidence.

[rgray222]

I think the greatest lesson people can take from your post (there are many) is to trust your instincts, use that "feeling" like you would use feel, taste, smell etc. Everyone has this ability and only a few people trust that it is really there. Even fewer yet fine tune this ability. I honestly believe this is the mechanism that will wake people up, put them on the right path and provide them with a fulfilling life.

[Another1]

Jagman,the influence of the one they call Jehovah knocked me clean off my cloud. As a young man just venturing out into the world, I was okay with 'God' - my very life at the time was a testament to this belief system working for me ... At the ripe age of only 20 I had traveled cross country, got a dream job living in the Rockie Mountains no less, was very active in local politics and a volunteer fireman. Anyone who knocked on my door wanting to talk about Jesus was welcome to sit, which led to some fun with the local Mormons briefly also. :)

These people got 5+ years of love, acceptance and intent to live in peace from me. Their god would not allow it. The physical divorce from the spouse they rescued from me coincided with loss of career by 7 days and then some smug bugger asserting that their god was chastising me. Destroying me for my own good. I could have my life back if I submit.

So the answer is yes. I have felt its influence and still do through much of the mainstream new age material on sale out here.

As with most organized religions, I honor the people trapped within them and know that if they believe something right down to their toenails, it becomes real and can work for them.

The miracle to me, the proof that something else is real that is bigger and more wonderful than what the religions offer us, can be found in the posts above. Something leads these people out of these groups.

[Kraut]

In case someone wants to listen to two minutes of madness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIcQ4IqRKlM

It's from a talk that one of the current Watchtower "leaders" held. It gives you insight into the strange mindset they have and how they use fear to manipulate Witnesses to do more and give more.

[Warlock]

I was a Witness for over 20 years, and while I had some complaints about certain things, and did voice them over the internet in a couple of other places, my experience was more positive than negative.

I quit drinking.
I quit using illegal drugs.
I quit carrying a gun under my car seat.
I quit bring hateful.
I was stopped from becoming the predator, and you, the prey, so my conversion saved more than just myself. It saved some of the general public.

Warlock :wizard:

[Kraut]

Warlock,
thanks for your post. What made you move on from the Org?

-Kraut

[Chris Gilbert]

Great post Kraut! I was raised as a JW as well. I agree about how all consuming conditioning was among the JWs, much of their lingo and norms were really elaborate methods of avoiding cognitive dissonance if examined closely enough.

I also agree as well about how when coming out into the "world" I started noticing too how conditioning is everywhere, even among those who make an effort to point it out. They may see part of the conditioning in others, but not their own. Part of my goal is to help root out false conditioning (which most thoughts are infact) so people can have a more direct connection with their own Soul and Wisdom.

[Chris Gilbert]

One thing that I did take away however from the JWs was a sense of not truly "belonging" to any specific nation in the world. Most of what's called patriotism still strikes me as being just as silly as it did when I was young.

Purportedly, despite criticizing the UN, the JWs mother organization has actually been granted NGO status. Kinda makes me wonder if they've received back-door bankster funding to help spread memes associated with a new, more unified world (though one firmly under bankster rule with associated religious controls, as opposed to a freer democracy).

[Kraut]

One thing that I did take away however from the JWs was a sense of not truly "belonging" to any specific nation in the world. Most of what's called patriotism still strikes me as being just as silly as it did when I was young.

Purportedly, despite criticizing the UN, the JWs mother organization has actually been granted NGO status. Kinda makes me wonder if they've received back-door bankster funding to help spread memes associated with a new, more unified world (though one firmly under bankster rule with associated religious controls, as opposed to a freer democracy).
Hi Enishi,
thanks for your posts. What you say about not having a sense of nationalism is something I can fully relate to, it is one of the good aspects. Finding out about the UN NGO status was quite a surprise to me, but I noticed how easily some Witnesses rationalize it away.

I am very surprised how many here have JW connections. :)

[Chris Gilbert]

During prayer when I was young I found myself connecting to a source of light and peace that lightened my sense of anxiety and abandonment, which always baffled me, as it contrasted so sharply with the "God" of the JWs books and lectures that I was increasingly coming to distrust and despise.

[Prodigal Son]

One thing that I did take away however from the JWs was a sense of not truly "belonging" to any specific nation in the world. Most of what's called patriotism still strikes me as being just as silly as it did when I was young.

Purportedly, despite criticizing the UN, the JWs mother organization has actually been granted NGO status. Kinda makes me wonder if they've received back-door bankster funding to help spread memes associated with a new, more unified world (though one firmly under bankster rule with associated religious controls, as opposed to a freer democracy).That is undoubtedly the case as far as I can see. Despite relentlessly teaching that the UN was the "scarlet-colored wild beast" in the book of Revelation, being driven and controlled by the Harlot, Babylon the Great (Christendom), for ten years there were literally hundreds of articles appearing in the Awake! magazine extolling the virtues of the UN and its many daughter harlots like UNESCO etc. They would invariably end such supportive articles with a statement like "but of course, only Jehovah's Kingdom can bring about real and everlasting changes to end mankind's suffering... blah blah blah". Then all of a sudden a few articles came out that never even did that...they just supported the causes right to the end with no disclaimer. Rest assured that the Watchtower received $$$$ for this.... paid advertising by the same groups that funded the Watchtower at its inception.

When the NGO scandal was exposed, Watchtower Corp. said they only did it for the UN Library Card to have access to their extensive collection of information. But the truth is that you do not have to be an NGO to get such a card. They got away with it for so long because very few of the Witnesses actually read the Awake! magazine. They spend too much time on the indoctrination in the Watchtower magazine where they have a question and answer session every Sunday. They read a paragraph and then several people comment on it by basically reading the paragraph 3 more times. It is mind-bending torture and after 45 minutes of this you can literally see people squirming and sneaking peeks at the clock praying for it to move along faster.

Joseph Rutherford, a boozing womanizer and flim flam artist took courses in psychology and imposed a mind-control system on the meetings where the Watchtower Study conductor stands in the middle or off to one side and the paragraph reader sits on the other side, and this repeated left-to-right eye movement reinforces in the observers' minds that what is being said is unquestionable and undeniable fact. He was also a channeling Satanist and most likely played a big part in the 1916 Halloween Satanic ritual murder of Charles Taze Russell, who was buried under a large pyramid north of Pittsburgh in a toga.

The entire Watchtower doctrine is built upon a fairy tale. Russell was a pyramidologist, completely obsessed with Giza like most Masons are. He saw in the timeline that 1914 would be a special year, because it marked the entrance into the King's Chamber. This of course meant a return wave of Christ Consciousness, but the Cabal he was connected to had long before developed a plan to counteract that: Get the Fed Reserve in place in order to fund WWI and pummel the awakening with war and propaganda. Russell knew about this and accurately predicted 1914 as a year of great change, the only prediction he ever got right in his life. Other than that he was a pedophile and a con man, selling things like "Miracle Wheat" which was supposed to cure all sorts of diseases and restore youth but was nothing more than plain wheat.

The Watchtower to this day is built upon the false foundation that Christ took over in the heavens "invisibly" in 1914 and is patiently waiting for Jehovah to put all his enemies before him as a stool for his feet. But what the Watchtower has done instead is to make Jesus responsible for allowing all the wars and turmoil since then to take place under his "presence". In other words, Jehovah sanctioned Stalin and Hitler, among others.... which is ironically the truth. :)

More to come....

[72MAV27]

Hey what's up Kraut?

Well I too was raised as a JW. fortunately for me I got rather lucky. My parents stopped going when I was about 15. So I spent half of my life in the religion. I agree with pretty much everything you said. I always say you can't tell anybody anything untill they're ready to hear it.

With that being said I spent a lot of time over the years trying to inform witnesses about the true nature of the religion. Especially about the founder. Mostly to no avail. My last girlfriend was a witness that I grew up with. She was disfellowshipped when we started dating but she has been reinstated now. We dated for 2 years and I used to try to force things about the religion on her. Very bad move on my part

I was very bitter towards the religion for a long time. Truthfully I have just gotten over this bitterness within the last 2 years or so. There are many negative and tragic aspects to the religion however I will list a few positives that I took from it

1. Discipline. As a child being a witness and having to sit quietly through all those meetings definitely gives discipline
2. Public speaking. Having to prepare and then stand up in front of an audience and deliver those "talks" I think is something positive to learn to do
3. Knowledge of the bible. Even tho in my opinion religion is bs the bible does have some good knowledge in there if you know how to read it

[Kraut]

Hey what's up Kraut?

Well I too was raised as a JW. fortunately for me I got rather lucky. My parents stopped going when I was about 15. So I spent half of my life in the religion. I agree with pretty much everything you said. I always say you can't tell anybody anything untill they're ready to hear it.

With that being said I spent a lot of time over the years trying to inform witnesses about the true nature of the religion. Especially about the founder. Mostly to no avail. My last girlfriend was a witness that I grew up with. She was disfellowshipped when we started dating but she has been reinstated now. We dated for 2 years and I used to try to force things about the religion on her. Very bad move on my part

I was very bitter towards the religion for a long time. Truthfully I have just gotten over this bitterness within the last 2 years or so. There are many negative and tragic aspects to the religion however I will list a few positives that I took from it

1. Discipline. As a child being a witness and having to sit quietly through all those meetings definitely gives discipline
2. Public speaking. Having to prepare and then stand up in front of an audience and deliver those "talks" I think is something positive to learn to do
3. Knowledge of the bible. Even tho in my opinion religion is bs the bible does have some good knowledge in there if you know how to read it

Hi 72MAV27,
thanks for your post. It really is hard to inform Witnesses about the true history and backgrounds of the Organization. I remember having a conversation with my Mother's husband last year, I was trying to explain to him why the "only 144.000 people go to heaven" doctrine was wrong. At that point I had thoroughly looked into that and read lots of scriptures, looked into the meanings of the original Greek and researched. He wasn't interested in my findings, what he said was that it would take years to look into such matters until you can reach a conclusion. They prefer their pre-chewed "solid food". I left it at that. What my Mother threw at me were the typical phrases such as I was getting "wise in my own eyes" and becoming arrogant and all that. It's strange how you become the bad guy just for thinking on your own and for yourself, just for seeking truth. As long as Witnesses are emotionally connected to the religion you can't really help them. Many who are disfellowshipped or have left are still emotionally connected and controlled.

Fortunately I was never too bitter, it helped me to realize that the control is everywhere, not limited to the Watchtower Society. I'm glad you were able to get over the bitterness. Eventually everyone will wake up. It's such an irony that they have the "awake!" magazine but are fast asleep.

Thanks for listing some positive aspects. One thing I learned is to look after others and to care from the heart. It is an aspect of the true Christian message, that always stuck with me. Knowledge of the bible is also one positive aspect, I've been able to help some Christians to have a better understanding and could point them to some more positive views.

[Kraut]

Something for those who have no experience with Jehovah's Witnesses. Here's one example of how such religions have a public and a hidden face. They try to hide their true face behind layers, that the public doesn't see. One thing that many have criticized JWs for is the practice of shunning. This is addressed in the FAQ section on the official website:
http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/shunning/

"Do You Shun Former Members of Your Religion?

Those who were baptized as Jehovah’s Witnesses but no longer preach to others, perhaps even drifting away from association with fellow believers, are not shunned. In fact, we reach out to them and try to rekindle their spiritual interest.

We do not automatically disfellowship someone who commits a serious sin. If, however, a baptized Witness makes a practice of breaking the Bible’s moral code and does not repent, he or she will be shunned or disfellowshipped. The Bible clearly states: “"Remove the wicked man from among yourselves."”—1 Corinthians 5:13.

What of a man who is disfellowshipped but whose wife and children are still Jehovah’s Witnesses? The religious ties he had with his family change, but blood ties remain. The marriage relationship and normal family affections and dealings continue."
The first part of the answer doesn't sound so bad, but technically it doesn't address former members but merely those who are still members but not active. (Even though reaching out and trying to rekindle the spiritual interest is more about control and trying to discern if someone is still decently in line with the religion. If you do or say the wrong things it can quickly turn into a witch hunt.)

The second part of the answer leaves out that in the past and currently many are being kicked out of the religion for reasons that are not biblical. If you become "critical" and speak out you may end up being disfellowshipped, which then forces friends and family to shun you. It can be biblically contested that the shunning practice is wrong even in the case of "serious sin".

Now the final part is where things get most interesting, it is where you can clearly see the difference between the public face and the true face. The FAQ states that blood ties remain, that marriage relationships and "normal"? family affections and dealings continue. Here is a quote from a publication from earlier this year that is mostly meant for Witnesses and less for outsiders (though they can have access):

"...The bond between parent and child is so strong that Jehovah used that relationship to illustrate his own love for his people. (Isa. 49:15) It is normal, therefore, to be deeply grieved when a beloved family member leaves Jehovah. “I was devastated,”says one sister whose daughter was disfellowshipped. “I wondered, ‘Why did she leave Jehovah?’ I felt guilty, and I blamed myself.” Jehovah understands your pain. He himself “felt hurt at his heart” when the first member of his human family, and later most people living before the Flood, rebelled. (Gen. 6:5, 6) It may be difficult for those who have never experienced such a loss to appreciate how devastating it can be. Nevertheless, it would be unwise to let the improper course of a disfellowshipped family member distance you from Jehovah. How, then, can you cope with the profound grief that arises when a family member leaves Jehovah? Do not blame yourself for what happened. Jehovah has put a choice before humans, and each dedicated and baptized family member must “carry his own load” of responsibility. (Gal. 6:5) Ultimately, Jehovah holds the sinner not you responsible for his or her choice. (Ezek. 18:20) Also, do not blame others. Respect Jehovah’s arrangement for discipline. Take your stand against the Devil not against shepherds who act to protect the congregation.—1 Pet. 5:8, 9. On the other hand, if you choose the path of resentment toward Jehovah, you will distance yourself from him. Really, what your beloved family member needs to see is your resolute stance to put Jehovah above everything else including the family bond. So to cope with the situation, be sure to maintain your own spirituality. Do not isolate yourself from your faithful Christian brothers and sisters. (Prov. 18:1) Pour out your feelings to Jehovah in prayer. (Ps. 62:7, 8) Do not look for excuses to associate with a disfellowshipped family member, for example, through e-mail. (1 Cor. 5:11) Stay absorbed in spiritual activities. (1 Cor. 15:58) The sister quoted above says, “I know that I must stay busy in Jehovah’s service and keep myself in a spiritually strong condition so that when my daughter does come back to Jehovah, I will be in a position to help her.” The Bible says that love “hopes all things.” (1 Cor. 13:4, 7) It is not wrong for you to entertain the hope that your loved one will return. Each year, many wrongdoers repent and come back to Jehovah’s organization. Jehovah does not begrudge their repentance. On the contrary, he is “ready to forgive.”—Ps. 86:5.

A strange mental pattern among JWs is that the religion is equated with God. If you challenge aspects of religious doctrine you automatically challenge God. If you leave the religion, you leave God. Even if you happen to find a better form of worship or spirituality. Perhaps that's my personal impression but it seems to me that it has become more extreme in the past years.

What the quote from the Watchtower article clearly shows is that members are expected to cut off most if not all contact even with close family members. Not even e-mails? That is a clear case of emotional abuse, sadly both those who follow these rules and their shunned family members are abused emotionally.

[Another1]

What the quote from the Watchtower article clearly shows is that members are expected to cut off most if not all contact even with close family members. Not even e-mails? That is a clear case of emotional abuse, sadly both those who follow these rules and their shunned family members are abused emotionally.

I appreciate this thread you started ... my first-hand experience with this crowd was partially over years ago but a few barbs did linger and I've felt them freeing up a bit while reading comments here from people who left that group ...

~ a curious sync has occurred this past month ... I was of course shunned by these people with wife and 2 sons writing me off as son of the devil, yadda, yadda ... well, out of the blue now ... my oldest son's wife has decided that I should know about 3 grand-daughters :) ~ she is not a JW - so far I have one phone call and pictures of 3 children who want to know their grandpa and their mom says the doors is open anytime for me to be in on their lives ... still trying to adjust to news myself ... been a hermit a long time *g

[Kraut]

One blog I found accidentally while moving on from my JW beliefs helped me view things from a new perspective. There's an interesting article here:
http://www.acarpenterfromnazareth.com/2013/06/jehovahs-witnesses-sado-masochism-and.html

Great quote from the article:

The act of leaving the organisation in itself, though, must not be mistaken for having gained freedom.

[Kraut]

http://pichost.de/images/2013/06/27/wHDr3.jpg

That was fun. :loco:

[TargeT]

What the quote from the Watchtower article clearly shows is that members are expected to cut off most if not all contact even with close family members. Not even e-mails? That is a clear case of emotional abuse, sadly both those who follow these rules and their shunned family members are abused emotionally.

My wife was disfellowshipped (or maybe not quite, either way it involved shunning and no contact) years ago and what I noticed most about (her stories of) it is this: the religion forces you into a small group with which to socially interact via the tenants of the religion (and the inherent elitism) so the threat (or actual action) of shunning is psychologically very powerful, I would say that she is emotionally traumatized by it still suffers from this past transgression today.

I see JW as a more insidious version of Judaism; where guilt is heavily leveraged. the JW "power tool" seems to be ostracization and social disconnection.

JW also seems to encourage widespread hypocrisy, act one way in the "church's eye" and another in your own life (not to say that all are victim of this, but I bet it is fairly common, I noticed this from my highschool days).

Her son is deeply entrenched in it, but I don't feel he would be receptive to any arguments counter to his chosen religion; so I don't speak on the topic with him.

[Kraut]

My wife was disfellowshipped (or maybe not quite, either way it involved shunning and no contact) years ago and what I noticed most about (her stories of) it is this: the religion forces you into a small group with which to socially interact via the tenants of the religion (and the inherent elitism) so the threat (or actual action) of shunning is psychologically very powerful, I would say that she is emotionally traumatized by it still suffers from this past transgression today.

I see JW as a more insidious version of Judaism; where guilt is heavily leveraged. the JW "power tool" seems to be ostracization and social disconnection.

JW also seems to encourage widespread hypocrisy, act one way in the "church's eye" and another in your own life (not to say that all are victim of this, but I bet it is fairly common, I noticed this from my highschool days).

Her son is deeply entrenched in it, but I don't feel he would be receptive to any arguments counter to his chosen religion; so I don't speak on the topic with him.

You're right, everything in the life of a Witness revolves around the religion and it is always recommended to limit social interaction with non Witnesses to a minimum. They like to say that "worldly" people can be nice and polite and well mannered, but are of "the world", so they don't have God's favor. So the religion is everything members have and being cut off from that is very traumatic. They loose all friends and contacts. It's sad that such intolerant and inhuman behavior is accepted today.

Good observation about guilt leveraging. It's something I only realized myself when I had already detached myself emotionally, it is a thought pattern that takes a while to get rid of. Guilt and feeling undeserving. They really are pharisaical, not Christian at all.

Perhaps her Son will figure things out on his own. I hope so. The religion is becoming more extreme so I expect many more to awake! :)