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RMorgan
3rd July 2013, 17:59
Hey folks,

I was thinking about some things that frequently happen here.

This is a place where like-minded people gather to discuss common interest subjects, however, this is also a very heterogeneous place, so this forum is a very rich model to perform humanist studies.

After all this time as an active member, I came to a few personal conclusions.

The apparent desire for change is contradictory. People are always expressing it, but such desire doesnīt reach beyond the point of what kind of change is most convenient to them as individuals.

Most people are not completely aware that, society, by definition, is formed not only by the individuals themselves, but by the complex relationships that exist between them. Itīs impossible to create a society that fulfills every individual need (individualist).

However, itīs possible to create a society which is able to sustainably and peacefully manage the relationships between human beings themselves and the environment (collectivist), but only if people are ready to let go of egocentric individualism and everything that comes from it.

Apparently, everyone here wants to build a better society, but most people arenīt even able to change their pre-conceived and dogmatic opinions, which are mostly incoherent and intellectually unsubstantiated.

Changing the world is not possible if one is not prepared to change himself, which includes making a deep and impartial analyzes of his personal convictions which most of the time are solidified by stubbornness and egocentrism, not by reason and coherence.

Itīs impossible to embrace change if one doesnīt humbly embrace and accept the plastic nature of the mind.

Another thing that I have observed, is the inability that even people who are supposed to be at least a little bit like-minded, to reach a peaceful consensus.

Again, stubbornness, pride, egocentrism and inability to let go of irrational personal bias seem to produce an insurmountable barrier even among individuals who consider themselves to be open minded.

Obviously, this is one of the most relevant reasons of why we live in an elitist world, where just a few persons make all the important decisions. In a world where the vast majority of people canīt reach consensus even about the simplest issues, those who can will always and invariably rule.

Another important point, is the constant denial of knowledge. Iīve perceived it countless time. Itīs a common denominator of this forum and society as a whole.

People simply choose to be ignorant. They constantly deny to conduct any investigative study that may end up destroying the foundations of their belief system and pre-conceived opinions. People create protectionist barriers around their beliefs like they were their own children, and then use all sorts of argumentative fallacies, sophism and apparent syllogism to support and reinforce such defensive constructs.

This behavior reflects the common lack of understatement of the most basic epistemologic concept, which is that the true validation of any idea must inevitably come both from confirmation through validation and confirmation through refutation.

If you consider yourself a truth seeker, but you refuse to pursue investigative paths for fear that they may definitively refute your pre-established convictions, then you are not a truth seeker, but a protector of ignorance.

So, basically, since society reflects the behavior of individuals, it will always resist change if the individuals themselves are so resistive to change as well.

Freedom is a state of mind. We must let things go and let things in, without becoming attached to whatever conclusion you eventually make in the process...

I know you will not like to hear it, but most people here are not even close to be as open minded as they believe they are...Iīm aware that this opens door to misunderstandings, so I have to make it clear that being open minded is not about accepting everything, but about not regulating the flow of information through self-protective mechanisms such as prejudice and pre-conceived judgments.

The maximum of an open minded individual, is, as an example, analyzing the properties of an object or idea, like he had never seen it before, like looking to a tree with total abstraction, without making any connections or comparative judgments regarding other pre-conceived images of trees, like it is a totally new and strange object. Can you even imagine how many fascinating conclusions would be possible to achieve in this scenario? Like any maximum, such level of abstraction is close to impossible to achieve, but pursuing it should be a fundamental goal of anyone who considers himself to be open minded and a truth seeker.

Anyway...These are just thoughts. I would appreciate if you could participate in this discussion.

Itīs of extreme importance to at least understand and ideally overcome the above cited issues, otherwise, this forum and human civilization as a whole will always behave like a dog chasing his own tail, like an eternal vicious circle, and you know, hell is repetition.

Unfortunately, it seems to me that people are more interested in convincing each other of their own personal lies, which are often called personal truths, than to leave everything behind to create a truly new begining.

Cheers,

Raf.

donk
3rd July 2013, 18:13
heh...I actually am in personal situation where I wish to transmit this very message (and may actually cut-and-paste to do so, if I find it productive, attributing it properly, of course).

I don't think the target audience is able to get it though.

All I can do is apply it to me, and live it myself--I hope that the example is made and those I can effect are positively effected. I think I'm passed talking the talk (and I do not believe it could expressed any more eloquently, thanks raf!) and at this point can only walk the walk. Perhaps I can contribute once I see how it works out, but for now, I am in complete agreement with nothing to add.

Paul
3rd July 2013, 18:35
The apparent desire for change is contradictory. People are always expressing it, but such desire doesnīt reach beyond the point of what kind of change is most convenient to them as individuals.

...
Another thing that I have observed, is the inability that even people who are supposed to be at least a little bit like-minded, to reach a peaceful consensus.

...
Another important point, is the constant denial of knowledge. Iīve perceived it countless time. Itīs a common denominator of this forum and society as a whole.

Most of us here have changed much, and sought much change, in our present lives.

Most of us here have reached many a consensus with like minded people.

Most of us here have garnered much knowledge.

We just tend to do such things on our own schedules. I suppose that comes with the sovereign territory ... of our selves.

christian
3rd July 2013, 18:48
The apparent desire for change is contradictory. People are always expressing it, but such desire doesnīt reach beyond the point of what kind of change is most convenient to them as individuals.

It's all so complex, it's not like there are always clear-cut changes and decisions along our lifepaths, there are so many things that factor in, so many stages we go through in our evolution and decision-making process.

Like in the seven stages of inner alchemy as described in the Emerald Tablets (http://www.sacred-texts.com/alc/emerald.htm).




1. Calcination
2. Dissolution
3. Separation
4. Conjunction
5. Fermentation
6. Distillation
7. Coagulation

Our mind-constructs change form so often, and each process is only a step, even when you're through with the whole process, it was only another step and you begin anew.

In essence, it's all just not that easy. Could it be that you're too eager to see results? Beware of pushing people too fast, this is how collectivist tyrants throughout history wanted to create "a better world." It always fails, because the real deal is waking up and realizing the bigger picture on every level, mental, emotional, physical, spiritual.

Inspire people freely and allow the process to unfold. It's the most gentle way and also the most profound—also the one that takes the most effort and time.

Humans that are enlightened will do enlightened things by themselves. If you really wanna help humanity evolve, have patience and be prepared to be around for much much longer.

I think you're right that many aren't as far as they might think they are, I wholeheartedly include myself here. One more reason to work on ourselves and our relationships. Let's just have the system we live in grow organically together with us.

ulli
3rd July 2013, 19:02
Bravo. Excellent post and insights.
The elite, which is pretty much unreachable by most of us, is yet to be seen as a projection of the collective unconscious...
The sum of people who have not yet taken responsibility for their own lives, let alone, actions.

I have two ideas here, neither of which I'm totally sure about.
Writing them down might help me see this issue more clearly.

If this earth is just one unique world in a universal world of trillions of planets....
it might therefore have a specific role to play, which distinguishes it from all others.
What if that role is a school for emotional balancing?

All these differences between people will do is grind on their egos,
and therefore will also provide the exact testing ground to get that inner work done.
We are all mortal beings, and have relatively short lives,
and no one knows for certain what their end will be like.

This ignorance of our physical decline and death also creates the intensity of our e-motions,
which can then be expressed in two forms...either the form of frustration, and anger,
or in practicing the values we would like to see all around us and therefore transform our lower motions.

However, if the earth's role in the big picture is to be changed forever,
and if is not meant to be a school any longer, but is to establish a heavenly paradise,
and we, this generation, are witnessing the shift to that level,
then all efforts we make are justified...and that means all efforts from all sides, including the elite.

They then have the role of putting the rest of us, the great unwashed,
under a yoke, imprison us, so as to increase our desire for freedom.
Freedom seems to be like a golden carrot for now, dangling under everyone's eyes, apparently impossible to be reached.

However, there are today many individuals who had a chance of getting a nibble of that carrot, and that is thanks to the secular and even permissive society they live in. This has brought many people to the freedom of higher learning and understanding, of getting access to great books, and most of all, the Internet now, where a great buffet is being offered, and not only carrots.
But the collective of humanity, meaning all 8 billion, can never quite get there, even when their governments give them all the freedoms they want, due to their personal choices.
Freedom allows people to be anti-social, contrary, uncooperative, and this will go on that way as long as choices are being offered. I believe some of the new souls are being created from scratch,
some come in from previous lives of cruelty and othr bad habits, or they are being reincarnated with zero memory of their earlier lessons learnt. But also some come in from advanced worlds, as missionaries, teachers, and even offer sacrifice and martyrdom to get their message to be heard.
But all the less evolved need to go through the hard ground training that an imperfect world puts them through, until they get it.

So there will always be a need for government, for laws and regulations, and most of all, for spiritual education.
But in the end, earth will remain a school, even when it is ruled by justice and fairness, and equal rights for all.

One more thing....Not all conflict is bad, as long as it opens up people's willingness to dialogue with one another.
But this must first be accompanied by an inner act of willingness on all sides.

Cristian
3rd July 2013, 19:16
Hey Raf,

Nice topic. And very important stuff to think and meditate about.

I smell . I even stink sometimes . All the things I use to define reality, moral concepts.... everything that adds up to me , to what I am as a human ...stinks. I dont like mysef when I use filters and learned concepts in order to think and navigate in this reality. Everything is so fake.

And dont even get me started on what i feel about other people. People stuck in mind constructs. People that constantly try to fit reality through their narrow lenses. OMG just ****ing let go !

Yes , let it all go , everything.

But no, "open minded people" only like minor adjustments. Like ...see this big wall in my head? I'm just gonna paint it blue instead of green. Because I'm "open minded". But in reality there is no letting go.

We all need to be a little bit crazy , we need to be like children again.

GloriousPoetry
3rd July 2013, 19:19
If all humans woke up and truly owned their own crap we would live in a very different world.

Most people choose not to take responsibility for finding the light within themselves let alone accepting the dark aspects of themselves.

ulli
3rd July 2013, 19:36
Hey Raf,

Nice topic. And very important stuff to think and meditate about.

I smell . I even stink sometimes . All the things I use to define reality, moral concepts.... everything that adds up to me , to what I am as a human ...stinks. I dont like mysef when I use filters and learned concepts in order to think and navigate in this reality. Everything is so fake.

And dont even get me started on what i feel about other people. People stuck in mind constructs. People that constantly try to fit reality through their narrow lenses. OMG just ****ing let go !

Yes , let it all go , everything.

But no, "open minded people" only like minor adjustments. Like ...see this big wall in my head? I'm just gonna paint it blue instead of green. Because I'm "open minded". But in reality there is no letting go.

We all need to be a little bit crazy , we need to be like children again.

Interesting that you brought up stink. Some call it malodor. I prefer the word 'bad smell', but that depends on who I'm talking to. With close family and friends I call it stink, too.

Anyway, what I noticed right away when I moved to Costa Rica was that everyone smelled good. Traveling on the buses is a good indicator.

In Southern Europe you can smell stinks that make you choke... Toilets in Greece? No need to ask or directions...just follow the nose. When bolting into one of those bathrooms you get gratis diver training...in and out in two minutes.

Once on a seven-hour ferry trip between the Greek Islands I could just not go into the bathroom, as soon as I opened the door ...
I got hit by the most fiery stink ever. But I was desperate, so I sneaked through the boat's kitchen until I found the door to the First Class section, to use that toiled. Surely it could not be bad? Wrong! The only difference to second class was the number of cubicles..only two. But they still meant that I had to hold my breath for one agonizing minute.

And France? OMG, those people smell bad. The interesting connection is that they also have the most advanced perfume industry. Royal palaces had no bathrooms, the royals never washed, but used perfume instead, to hide their stink.

Nobody smells bad in Costa Rica, one can travel on the buses smelling delicious people, who shower daily AND use unbelievable amounts of deodorants and aftershaves and colognes, yet the bottles end up in their many rivers, and finally in the two oceans, both coasts. But the people love themselves, to the point of narcissism.

Justintime
3rd July 2013, 19:38
This reminds me of a question I posed to myself a few minutes ago,'If we got three people in a room and told them they had to create a consensus heaven on earth with ten spiritual/ moral laws could they do it?

I think eternal heaven was originally divided by a lack of consensus. We(all of us here) decided that we wanted to experience everything other than the heaven we were experiencing at the time in order to discover what heaven is for ourselves.

Real change isn't necessary because as you said, ' Freedom is a state of mind.' Things are the way they are right now because that's exactly how we want them, not just the PTB, but everyone.

I suspect there are millions of schools just like this one meant for us to experience. And I bet we will in time and return back to our creator and be like, you were right this is heaven.

Kraut
3rd July 2013, 19:47
Seems to me that one lesson to be learned is that people won't always do what we expect them to, or be who we expect them to be. But then no one has to live up to our personal expectations, we have no right to even hold such expectations. There are over seven billion ways to be a truth seeker, most of them much different from our way. Everyone will get there in time, we can't dictate their path and we can't predict their path. Until then it's our job to seek continually and to embrace and help anyone along the way. At times it's really hard to be around blind and deaf people who prefer to be ignorant, but at some point we were just the same. And to different degrees we still are in this very moment and will continue to be so for a long time.

We can either be embracing to all people or we can focus on what they're not doing right now but in our limited view should be doing. Becoming awake and aware can easily lead to becoming arrogant. Would we look down on a child because it doesn't understand certain things that are beyond it at that moment? Humanity and many humans are like children today, they just don't know better. But what do we really know? What must higher evolved beings think about us right now? Or don't they think like that, but focus on our personal progress and achievements instead?

Team Zen
3rd July 2013, 19:51
Respectfully, as I totally empathize with your stance, I must inject a bit of humor, because that's what keeps me sane amongst the insanity...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEaKX9YYHiQ

sirdipswitch
3rd July 2013, 19:57
Hey folks,

I was thinking about some things that frequently happen here.

This is a place where like-minded people gather to discuss common interest subjects, however, this is also a very heterogeneous place, so this forum is a very rich model to perform humanist studies.

After all this time as an active member, I came to a few personal conclusions.

The apparent desire for change is contradictory. People are always expressing it, but such desire doesnīt reach beyond the point of what kind of change is most convenient to them as individuals.

Most people are not completely aware that, society, by definition, is formed not only by the individuals themselves, but by the complex relationships that exist between them. Itīs impossible to create a society that fulfills every individual need (individualist).

However, itīs possible to create a society which is able to sustainably and peacefully manage the relationships between human beings themselves and the environment (collectivist), but only if people are ready to let go of egocentric individualism and everything that comes from it.

Apparently, everyone here wants to build a better society, but most people arenīt even able to change their pre-conceived and dogmatic opinions, which are mostly incoherent and intellectually unsubstantiated.

Changing the world is not possible if one is not prepared to change himself, which includes making a deep and impartial analyzes of his personal convictions which most of the time are solidified by stubbornness and egocentrism, not by reason and coherence.

Itīs impossible to embrace change if one doesnīt humbly embrace and accept the plastic nature of the mind.

Another thing that I have observed, is the inability that even people who are supposed to be at least a little bit like-minded, to reach a peaceful consensus.

Again, stubbornness, pride, egocentrism and inability to let go of irrational personal bias seem to produce an insurmountable barrier even among individuals who consider themselves to be open minded.

Obviously, this is one of the most relevant reasons of why we live in an elitist world, where just a few persons make all the important decisions. In a world where the vast majority of people canīt reach consensus even about the simplest issues, those who can will always and invariably rule.

Another important point, is the constant denial of knowledge. Iīve perceived it countless time. Itīs a common denominator of this forum and society as a whole.

People simply choose to be ignorant. They constantly deny to conduct any investigative study that may end up destroying the foundations of their belief system and pre-conceived opinions. People create protectionist barriers around their beliefs like they were their own children, and then use all sorts of argumentative fallacies, sophism and apparent syllogism to support and reinforce such defensive constructs.

This behavior reflects the common lack of understatement of the most basic epistemologic concept, which is that the true validation of any idea must inevitably come both from confirmation through validation and confirmation through refutation.

If you consider yourself a truth seeker, but you refuse to pursue investigative paths for fear that they may definitively refute your pre-established convictions, then you are not a truth seeker, but a protector of ignorance.

So, basically, since society reflects the behavior of individuals, it will always resist change if the individuals themselves are so resistive to change as well.

Freedom is a state of mind. We must let things go and let things in, without becoming attached to whatever conclusion you eventually make in the process...

I know you will not like to hear it, but most people here are not even close to be as open minded as they believe they are...Iīm aware that this opens door to misunderstandings, so I have to make it clear that being open minded is not about accepting everything, but about the not regulating the flow of information through self-protective mechanisms such as prejudice and pre-conceived judgments.

The maximum of an open minded individual, is, as an example, analyzing the properties of an object or idea, like he had never seen it before, like looking to a tree with total abstraction, without making any connections or comparative judgments regarding other pre-conceived images of trees, like it is a totally new and strange object. Can you even imagine how many fascinating conclusions would be possible to achieve in this scenario? Like any maximum, such level of abstraction is close to impossible to achieve, but pursuing it should be a fundamental goal of anyone who considers himself to be open minded and a truth seeker.

Anyway...These are just thoughts. I would appreciate if you could participate in this discussion.

Itīs of extreme importance to at least understand and ideally overcome the above cited issues, otherwise, this forum and human civilization as a whole will always behave like a dog chasing his own tail.

Unfortunately, it seems to me that people are more interested in convincing each other of their own personal lies, which are often called personal truths, than to leave everything behind to create a truly new begining.

Cheers,

Raf.



Hey !! Raf!! Great post!! You express so well, that which I have been writting between the lines for more than a year now, and no-one here, has made the connection, that their "Intelligence", will not get them to Communion with their High Self.

I keep saying that I had to "Dump" everything that I "thought" that I knew, and go as a small child knowing nothing, in order to achieve, that Communion, they do not make the connection. All, just keep defending their own brand of wisdom.

They will not make the connection with your words either, for they know full well how much they understand. ccc.

There are only two of us that have achieved 24/7's Communion with our HS/Source, on PA, and we both did so by the very same mannor, "before" comming to this forum. cc.

What is Ego? Refusal, to give up Everything you think you know.

Turn off your Monkey brain. Turn off your computer and quit chattering with other Monkey's. Go to your HS/Source, as a small child knowing nothing. AND, do not quit till you Achieve it!!!

Either you want change... or you're just "P"ing in the wind

:wizard::wizard::wizard:

And trust me... you do not have to get all righteous, and give up who you really are to achieve it!

Bubu
3rd July 2013, 21:00
Hey folks,

I was thinking about some things that frequently happen here.

This is a place where like-minded people gather to discuss common interest subjects, however, this is also a very heterogeneous place, so this forum is a very rich model to perform humanist studies.

After all this time as an active member, I came to a few personal conclusions.

The apparent desire for change is contradictory. People are always expressing it, but such desire doesnīt reach beyond the point of what kind of change is most convenient to them as individuals.

Most people are not completely aware that, society, by definition, is formed not only by the individuals themselves, but by the complex relationships that exist between them. Itīs impossible to create a society that fulfills every individual need (individualist).

However, itīs possible to create a society which is able to sustainably and peacefully manage the relationships between human beings themselves and the environment (collectivist), but only if people are ready to let go of egocentric individualism and everything that comes from it.

Apparently, everyone here wants to build a better society, but most people arenīt even able to change their pre-conceived and dogmatic opinions, which are mostly incoherent and intellectually unsubstantiated.

Changing the world is not possible if one is not prepared to change himself, which includes making a deep and impartial analyzes of his personal convictions which most of the time are solidified by stubbornness and egocentrism, not by reason and coherence.

Itīs impossible to embrace change if one doesnīt humbly embrace and accept the plastic nature of the mind.

Another thing that I have observed, is the inability that even people who are supposed to be at least a little bit like-minded, to reach a peaceful consensus.

Again, stubbornness, pride, egocentrism and inability to let go of irrational personal bias seem to produce an insurmountable barrier even among individuals who consider themselves to be open minded.

Obviously, this is one of the most relevant reasons of why we live in an elitist world, where just a few persons make all the important decisions. In a world where the vast majority of people canīt reach consensus even about the simplest issues, those who can will always and invariably rule.

Another important point, is the constant denial of knowledge. Iīve perceived it countless time. Itīs a common denominator of this forum and society as a whole.

People simply choose to be ignorant. They constantly deny to conduct any investigative study that may end up destroying the foundations of their belief system and pre-conceived opinions. People create protectionist barriers around their beliefs like they were their own children, and then use all sorts of argumentative fallacies, sophism and apparent syllogism to support and reinforce such defensive constructs.

This behavior reflects the common lack of understatement of the most basic epistemologic concept, which is that the true validation of any idea must inevitably come both from confirmation through validation and confirmation through refutation.

If you consider yourself a truth seeker, but you refuse to pursue investigative paths for fear that they may definitively refute your pre-established convictions, then you are not a truth seeker, but a protector of ignorance.

So, basically, since society reflects the behavior of individuals, it will always resist change if the individuals themselves are so resistive to change as well.

Freedom is a state of mind. We must let things go and let things in, without becoming attached to whatever conclusion you eventually make in the process...

I know you will not like to hear it, but most people here are not even close to be as open minded as they believe they are...Iīm aware that this opens door to misunderstandings, so I have to make it clear that being open minded is not about accepting everything, but about the not regulating the flow of information through self-protective mechanisms such as prejudice and pre-conceived judgments.

The maximum of an open minded individual, is, as an example, analyzing the properties of an object or idea, like he had never seen it before, like looking to a tree with total abstraction, without making any connections or comparative judgments regarding other pre-conceived images of trees, like it is a totally new and strange object. Can you even imagine how many fascinating conclusions would be possible to achieve in this scenario? Like any maximum, such level of abstraction is close to impossible to achieve, but pursuing it should be a fundamental goal of anyone who considers himself to be open minded and a truth seeker.

Anyway...These are just thoughts. I would appreciate if you could participate in this discussion.

Itīs of extreme importance to at least understand and ideally overcome the above cited issues, otherwise, this forum and human civilization as a whole will always behave like a dog chasing his own tail.

Unfortunately, it seems to me that people are more interested in convincing each other of their own personal lies, which are often called personal truths, than to leave everything behind to create a truly new begining.

Cheers,

Raf.



Hey !! Raf!! Great post!! You express so well, that which I have been writting between the lines for more than a year now, and no-one here, has made the connection, that their "Intelligence", will not get them to Communion with their High Self.

I keep saying that I had to "Dump" everything that I "thought" that I knew, and go as a small child knowing nothing, in order to achieve, that Communion, they do not make the connection. All, just keep defending their own brand of wisdom.

They will not make the connection with your words either, for they know full well how much they understand. ccc.

There are only two of us that have achieved 24/7's Communion with our HS/Source, on PA, and we both did so by the very same mannor, "before" comming to this forum. cc.

What is Ego? Refusal, to give up Everything you think you know.

Turn off your Monkey brain. Turn off your computer and quit chattering with other Monkey's. Go to your HS/Source, as a small child knowing nothing. AND, do not quit till you Achieve it!!!

Either you want change... or you're just "P"ing in the wind

:wizard::wizard::wizard:

And trust me... you do not have to get all righteous, and give up who you really are to achieve it!


Good thought Raf, but only if we apply it to ourselves, each of everyone of us to his own instead of pointing to others.

So what I am gonna do is have a review of my previous post and see how much an asshole I have been. Then perhaps I can change for the better.

What do you say we all do that?

http://www.mind-your-reality.com/your_mirror.html

skippy
3rd July 2013, 21:09
We all need to be a little bit crazy , we need to be like children again.

.. or as George Carlin used to say: "Life is Worth losing." Indeed, we are never gonna survive, unless we get a little crazy.. Only child know..

2fMLUtymPNw

naste.de.lumina
3rd July 2013, 22:27
Raf brother.
The PA is just one of several groups where students (us) with matters of common interests, unite to perform their studies in particular.
If we come to earth to learn, then we are students.
It is up to students while attending this school come together in the best way possible so that common interests are met. What to study, when to study, how to study, I really need to pay to study?
The biggest problem with this school is that it infested this bullyings.
Some raised here and others that provide other schools, and most of our students do not realize they exist.
So we have to get somehow overcome the evil influences that these misfits impose on us.

bogeyman
3rd July 2013, 23:11
Humanity problems go far deeper than many realise. It has been a continuous cycle for most of mankind's history. There has to be an awareness that mankind is connected to nature and the universe. He has become too complacent and this has blinded many to the larger scheme of things.

Also spiritual side of things needs to be understood and an awareness of this also. At present it is the same problems being repeated over and over again.

ghostrider
3rd July 2013, 23:21
we just need the rest of society to get on board starship avalons, free thinking, open minded, peaceful, fee flow of ideas, and possibilties... we are all concerned for our world, a little frustation now and then because the solution is so obivious ... change yourself, better yourself, take responsibility for your actions and choices , never blaming others for something you did of your own free will ...

Mulder
4th July 2013, 07:39
IMHO we "create our reality" so if we believe Avalonians are rude and selfish, this is what we focus on and we'll ignore all the other times when Avalonians are kind, helpful and understanding to each-other.
Also, Avalon is a microcosm of the world, so we will see the full range of behaviour here - not just all the positive aspects of the world. But this doesn't mean we can't do better and try to be polite to everyone!

Finefeather
4th July 2013, 10:04
This is an excellent thread...thanks Raf...Your OP is exceptional


I don't think the target audience is able to get it though.
This is quite critical to understand and a huge problem when posting on a forum.
A basic tenet in public speaking is that one should never speak above a person...and it is often quite difficult to gauge the level of a random audience.
I think in a forum, for example, a very good title and then a first post which clearly lays down the indented level of the thread is of vital importance., and should and is often monitored by Paul for example with good intention.
My limited experience with forums is that the message gets lost often in the first few posts and then it becomes a free for all...with no real direction. The idea that this is a 'family' forum and that anyone can chip in is certainly a wise one...but even in families we have very diverse conversations which may not always be suitable for everyone. I, for one, do not post often on threads where I am clearly ignorant, but I do read a lot of them to keep up with the general trend.

People are protective over their ideas and thinking but if that person finds some common ground to work on with others then a shift might be easier...but if a thread starts becoming too general and watered down many loose interest.

The most important thing though IMO is the content or the direction or intention of the subject...some don't want to change simply because they are comfortable and happy...and who can really judge what is right for each person...at the end it is still always the choice of each how far they want to venture outside their safe zone.

Take care
Ray

ViralSpiral
4th July 2013, 11:19
Itīs impossible to embrace change if one doesnīt humbly embrace and accept the plastic nature of the mind.



Word......

I am in awe of your command of it. You sure you're not a robot? ;)

Raf, I am totally cognizant of the fact that I have limited cerebral capacity as well as a healthy, and equally an un-healthy ego.

As Justintime mentioned:


If we got three people in a room and told them they had to create a consensus heaven on earth with ten spiritual/ moral laws could they do it?

Probably not.

However, if I were not in a position to be able to read/learn, I would never find out. I too have changed over the last years and PA has been part of this journey.
To me its 'unfolding' not 'enlightenment'.
I have challenges expressing thought, so seldom participate but am profoundly grateful for all the great teachers here.

So, thanks, TEACH http://emoticonhq.com/images/ICQ/flower.jpg



L5JDposTncU

Carmody
4th July 2013, 13:53
Internal communication is the highest level.

Spoken conversation with another (speaking out loud) is one layer more primitive.

Communication with a group, is one layer more primitive -again. This, due to the emotional inflections being added in and carrying more weight in the equation.

Communication in a large group has no consciousness and is nearly entirely primitive.

What we, as individuals, tend to not realize, is that the monkey-primate with it's grouped connectivity, is still riding in us and is part of our systems of interaction.

example, millions of individuals protest in Egypt, all there due to internal conversations with themselves. The monkey mind or group mind runs the show -when they gather. There were, what..57 group/gang rapes that were reported in that mess of protests?

To 'reach' a human, you always have to be aware of the primate filter, which is fully integrated and there at all times. when we are calm, we rarely recognize that it is there. But, it is always on, even when sleeping. As sure as a heartbeat, it remains, and is. being aware of it as permanent extant filter and modifier, is key to becoming as free as possible of it's grasp, and moving to be free of it's higher component, the ego.

eg, the genesis of the formation of that voice in the head, that is formed by now autonomous learnings, which is tied to our origins on learning, which was monkey driven and colored.

This is why one can't think when one is in emotionally driven in situations. The ego, the genesis of the internal voice formation, is trying to get you to react and colors the creation of all internal voice 'thought'.

One can only begin the process of finding internal freedom and moving into the actual stage of being a human adult, an enlightened being...... by being conscious of this issue, 24/7, for the rest of their life. Simply being conscious of the issue, and being in 'mind' of it, 24/7, that is one critical way, or method, of what begins the process.

Never cease being aware, in any given moment... of the understanding that the voice in the head, the internal muse, is created and colored by the survival and 'moment to moment' demands of the body. Do not confuse the carrier of the message, the coloration and shaping of the data, with the data itself. What 99% of us call the actual self... is being filtered, colored, shaped and directed by that which creates and shapes the internal voice and internal thought.

This important thought and formation of thought... will probably be one of the biggest challenges in your life. The body, the creator of that internal voice, will fight you every inch of the way, as it can only see it's disintegration and change...as a direct threat. As, after all, you are trying to shut down the autopilot - which is what it is.

Just listening to:

wsgA0s2T8Js

So, you ask, where's the immortality, the freedom from dimensional barriers, the connection to all, the intense psychic energies?

It is backward, inward...through the blocked doorway of the internal autopilot. It's an avatar, a fleshy doorway. Learn how to drive the darned thing.

Nick Matkin
4th July 2013, 14:14
I recently found this:

"What is compatible with somebody's own pre-existing world-view will be considered simple, clear, logical and evident, whereas what is contradicting that world view will quickly be rejected as an unnecessarily comlpex explanation and a senseless additional hypothesis. In this way, the principle of simplicity becomes a mirror of prejudice..."

Written by Dieter Gernert.

Nick

turiya
4th July 2013, 16:10
The apparent desire for change is contradictory. People are always expressing it, but such desire doesnīt reach beyond the point of what kind of change is most convenient to them as individuals.


Whatsoever is known comes out of the past... that which has already been experienced. There is a strong force to overcome, in order to move into the unknown. The force doesn't come from the past, but its because mind becomes attached to the past, to what has been known.

One cannot desire for something that is unknown. That is not how desire works. Only the known can be desired for. Hence, desire for a something unknown in the future is not possible. One is only capable of projecting a future as it relates to the past, a past experience. So desires are always repetitious, they repeat, they are circular. They come out of the past, that which has already been known, already experienced, & are then projected in future to be repeated again. It makes for a convenient life. The more something is repeated, the more easy & convenient it becomes. The basic thing about something that is a convenience, is that the more it is repeated, the less awareness one needs to have. Awareness is the most inconvenient thing. Repeating something over & over again, and one can almost do it in one's sleep, many are living very sleepy lives.

It is why it is a contradiction in terms - to desire for change. It is a contradiction. Rather, the basic thing is to become more aware. In becoming more aware, then change happens on it own accord.


turiya :cool:

ulli
4th July 2013, 16:29
The apparent desire for change is contradictory. People are always expressing it, but such desire doesnīt reach beyond the point of what kind of change is most convenient to them as individuals.


Whatsoever is known comes out of the past... that which has already been experienced. There is a strong force to overcome, in order to move into the unknown. The force doesn't come from the past, but its because mind becomes attached to the past, to what has been known.

One cannot desire for something that is unknown. That is not how desire works. Only the known can be desired for. Hence, desire for a something unknown in the future is not possible. One is only capable of projecting a future as it relates to the past, a past experience. So desires are always repetitious, they repeat, they are circular. They come out of the past, that which has already been known, already experienced, & are then projected in future to be repeated again. It makes for a convenient life. The more something is repeated, the more easy & convenient it becomes. The basic thing about something that is a convenience, is that the more it is repeated, the less awareness one needs to have. Awareness is the most inconvenient thing. Repeating something over & over again, and one can almost do it in one's sleep, many are living very sleepy lives.

It is why it is a contradiction in terms - to desire for change. It is a contradiction. Rather, the basic thing is to become more aware. In becoming more aware, then change happens on it own accord.


turiya :cool:

Very true.
And being open to whatever reality presents itself in a given moment.
Including Freudian slips, lol.

That will then trigger reactions in us that will take us to the next event,
next choice, next commitment, next fight or flight response....
or perhaps no response at all...just observation of the moments energies.
And contemplation.