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Fred Steeves
8th July 2013, 20:36
Lately it seems that every time the topic of chemtrails is brought up (for whatever reason), it turns into a debate of whether they are really chemtrails or contrails. This has a tendency to derail a thread intended for a different purpose, so I figured this was a good time to hash it out once and for all.

This thread is meant to be one of debate for those who feel strongly about the subject either way, but let's please keep it polite and respectful o.k.?

Personally I have very little doubt that chemtrails are for real, from observing the sky, to reading the patents for weather modification and such, and noting how planes flying at similar altitudes will produce different results.

I also scan for them constantly when watching older movies, and have gone through every old family picture dating back decades, with not one sky shot showing streaking trails across the sky.

Below are two examples I've filmed in the last few months. This first one is of two planes at roughly the same altitude, one leaving a trail, one leaving nothing. Why is that?

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The second one below is of trails I was watching for some time, and I went and filmed them once they finally sank to very low altitudes. (I have a very hard time believing that this is a natural occurrence)

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So there it is folks, my layman's argument short and sweet. Are chemtrails a fact, or a New Age myth?

Cheers, http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/cheers.gif

Fred

Cidersomerset
8th July 2013, 20:50
Thanks Fred I think chemtrails are real and there are various reasons for them. I
have posted many times and ex pilot Fred 259 really got hot under the collar on
many threads a couple of years ago. He was adamant they were caused thru
weather conditions and altitude variation.I began noticing them in 2007/8 when
I started as a part time postman and worked outside daily.I heard something
mentioned about them possibly on project Camelot ? and when I looked up
the difference between contrail and chemtrail was obvious imo.

Although some critics say it is to do with the different atmospheric temperatures.
Several times I have seen Tankers doing grid patterns over the local area with
witness's. I cannot say all large prolonged vapour trails are Chemtrails , but they
are certainly doing something up there at certain times, especially about two years
ago. I must admit this year is not as busy yet.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is from last Thursdays Payday 5 /7 13....Bob has been playing a lot of
private recordings over the last few months and this one was on Chemtrails..



Start from 19 mins to 48 mins......Its selfe explanatory and the discussion by Bill
the radio station owner and former crop/dust sprayer is very interesting, even
though he is a sceptic its worth a listen, he talks about the Evergreen spraying
company and he knew some of the pilots there.....

http://achieveradio.com/archDL.php?ShowURL=http://audio.achieveradio.com/media2/PAYDAY/2013-07-05--0000---PAYDAY.mp3

http://achieveradio.com/payday/

RUSirius
8th July 2013, 20:55
Fred, I think they're real, however since I'm not the guy makin this stuff, or the guy sprayin this stuff, or the guy testing for this stuff I can not prove it.

Lazlo
8th July 2013, 21:10
Hi Fred,

Thanks for the topic. I can't answer your poll the way it is worded. If the question is are some contrails actually chemtrails? Then the answer is yes. Or, are most contrails chemtrails? Then the answer is no.

My personal opinion is that the explanation has many layers to it.

-More air traffic today than in the past.
-More people taking pictures of the sky today.
-The memory affect...you always remember the bad snowstorms from your chidhood and it makes you think that the weather was colder then than what the records state. Same thing for contrails, you "remember" clear skies because that matches your mental image of the sky. You aren't actually accessing a photographic memory.
-Heightened awareness... you never notice something until someone points it out and then you can't stop seeing it.
-Misidentification of normal phenomena.

-I said it in the Wimbledon thread today(actually in reference to UFOs as a parallel phenomenon): 95%+ of "chemtrails" are perfectly normal contrails that have been misidentified.

I got in the habit of looking up in the sky about 15 years ago when a friend commented to me that in virtually anyplace in America, if you look up, you can see 3 airplanes at any given time. Since then I have moved to an area that is not really on any major flightpaths and I can sometimes see a daytime sky with NO planes in it at all. In any case, it makes perfect sense to me that 2 planes can be in the air at the same time and only one will leave a visible contrail. Atmospheric layers can be relatively thin and you will hear commercial pilots stating that that they are either going to be climbing or descending to get into a smoother layer of air.

Now, having said all of that, I absolutely belive that the military has/is conducting experiments with radar propagation and over the horizon communications using metallic chaff dispersed to create a reflective atmospheric layer.

I also believe that they conduct weather modification experiments such as cloud seeding, cloud creation, and cloud dispersal as a means of controlling the weather for tactical advantage.

I am on the fence as to whether or not fuel additives have changed the appearance and formation of contrails. As an example, the formulation of Jet-A was changed to make the burn characteristics different during a crash. Does the additive which causes the fuel to break up into finer droplets change contrails?

Maybe.

Is any of this proof of a conspiracy to
1) give us diseases which can be activated by vaccines
2) change the soil composition to starve us out and kick off a depopulation program
3) protect us from changes in solar radiation (the chemtrails are real but it is the good guys argument)
4) dumb the sheeple down / make the population malleable
5) pick your evil genius conspiracy du jour...

I think not.

Lefty Dave
8th July 2013, 21:18
Hey, Fred...great idea....thanks.
1. Anyone can see they are real...they occur...and their is residue left behind.

2. What the purpose of this activity is....is anybody's guess. Weather...Reflect sunlight.....Antenna for haarp....Increase disease ....introduction of nanoparticulates.....I've heard so many ideas over the last 13 years...I don't know what to think.

3. Who would deny they occur...and why would they deny it? Hhmmm. When I contacted air force 10 years ago...they insisted that they weren't there...they 'didn't know what I was talking about"...so I stopped asking.

Good thread, Fred....

778 neighbour of some guy
8th July 2013, 21:18
Real, fact, my best guess is just weather control, the very unfortunate part in this case is "what goes up, must come down", resulting in known and unknown side effects for planetary health as well as human and animal health, a good portion of it will reflect direct sunlight into space bringing down earths temperature, oddly enough I also think it bounces a good portion of CME energy back out of the atmosphere, I also understood ( if I understood correct that is) that aluminium is the best thing to stop EMP pulses from damaging electronics, and again if I understood correct a massive CME can cause an EMP in the atmosphere and the whole planet is jam packed with electronics, I have no clue if that would be the correct guess regarding why they are spraying, all I know is big business does its business everywhere, so any electronic equipment that is not military ( usually heavily shielded against EMP) is very much at risk when left unprotected, so maybe, just maybe this whole deal serves the purpose of protecting mankind a bit, Imagine what would happen if all car, plane, shipping, trade, fridges, cash registers, cashpoints, traffic lights, hospitals, power plants and radios and TV's suddenly stopped, it could be that big business is making sure their cash flow keeps on flowing, in the meantime a serious and absolutely massive attempt to keep the wheels turning also serves as a protective measure to give us a chance against cosmic events that would otherwise out of our hands and reach, the bad side is of course its poisoning the earth, water, plants and trees and fertility of soil, animals, people, you breath it in, its also linked to autism and god knows what more, to be honest, besides thinking this crap should not be in the air, I don't know what to think of it or what position to take on it, dilemma.

My 2 cents for whatever that's worth.

Eram
8th July 2013, 21:36
Good idea for a thread Fred,

Lets settle this once and for all!

as if!!! lol


My mind is not made up for a yes or no on this subject, but last year, I did some experimenting that lead me (for the first time since the topic was raised years ago) to seriously consider that the whole chem trail issue might.... just might be a mass delusion from the start.

I have a bed and breakfast and last year, we had a few weeks in a row with beautiful weather and every morning, after I served breakfast to our guests, I would sit down in the garden with a labtop and a pair of binoculars to watch at the clear blue skies and the trails that were created there from passing air planes.
There is this website where you can track and trace (live) the commercial flight path of air planes that are flying by here (http://www.flightradar24.com/).
All days that I watched the airplanes go by, some days making big trails that lasted for hours and some days without making trails, I could identify every passing air plane on this website as a commercial air plane.
So if chemtrails are for real, then this would mean that commercial air planes are spraying.
Commercial air planes that carry passengers and at the same time have hidden compartments where they stuff the chemicals to spray into the air whilst flying. .... unlikely.
Could you imagine how many people would have to be involved in such a scheme? It must be in the hundreds of thousands.
Hard to believe imo.

So, for my part, I don't believe that all the trails that we see, lingering in the sky are chem trails, made from spraying chemicals into the air.

On the other hand....
There are studies that show clearly that high amounts of aluminum and other substances are found in forest areas that aren't supposed to be there.
How do they end up there? I don't know, could be a spraying of some sort.

It is said that in Hawaii for instance, the levels of aluminum are staggering at the moment.

pine boy
8th July 2013, 21:41
Chemtrails are real.
When contrails block out the sun and milk the sky,well,those are not contrails.
We're not being told anything about these happenings so everything is speculation.
Who's doing it?
I dunno.
What are they doing?
I dunno.
Only thing for sure is they are real.
21980

Corncrake
8th July 2013, 21:44
I cannot take part in your poll either because I am wobbling around on the fence. I have seen myriad white markings across the sky many times which I believe - as I am under many flight routes over London - to be contrails. However, I have read and listened to various interviews on the subject by people I respect so I think there could well be cases of chemtrails. Unfortunately there have been photographs of planes crop spraying used as examples of chemtrailing. I also find it hard to believe that the PTB are prepared to have their own families randomly poisoned which if they are spreading chemtrails must be happening. However, I have seen MOD evidence through the FOI Act demonstrating that germ warfare has been experimented with on innocent members of the public in this country in the past so as I said I am sitting on the fence ....

Sérénité
8th July 2013, 21:51
I voted Fact.

Im no technical expert. But even today for instance, we had about 8 big, thick, long chem-trails across the sky (in the south to west sky where the sun would soon be setting) here in the UK. They lasted for well over an hour.
Running along side them here and there, in complete stark contrast was your average airlines leaving your average little fluffy contrails that dissipated after 5-10 minutes.

I sat there looking up hoping others would be too and questioning, why are there big thick trails sticking for hours, then little ones behind a visible plane dispersing almost instantly. How can you turn that into fiction?
Same sky, same atmosphere, same (supposedly) cr?p coming out the back...why such different trails?

I live on the flight path between two major northern UK airports so see this whenever they're at it, a total distinction side-by-side, between normal domestic/international flights leaving a normal con and then these big fat ugly lingering chems.

naste.de.lumina
8th July 2013, 21:59
Good idea Fred.
I have no doubt of its existence.
The objectives are not clear and I've read and watched numerous videos with different focuses.
I believe there are different methods with similar goals.
Nothing prevents different products for different purposes, are scattered in different locations on the same flight.

A fact that is hard to understand is the following:
All governments love to advertise their projects to benefit the population. That the vote. Do not miss a single chance. Even at the inauguration of sewage is a politician.
If chemtrails are good for humans, why do not advertise? Rather, they deny the existence of these programs?

Thanks.

RMorgan
8th July 2013, 22:01
Fred,

This poll will not achieve conclusive results.

As far as I can see, the debate is not about if chemtrails do or do not exist, but about how the vast majority of chemtrail videos and alleged evidence are nothing but regular condensation trails.

I suspect chemtrails exist, but it´s literally impossible for all or even ten percent of alleged chemtrail videos out there to be legitimate.

First, because the common methodology used to distinguish chemtrails from condensation trails is useless. There´s no way to visually differentiate them. This is beyond proved and the information is out there for everyone who wants to research.

Second, because to disperse that ammount of liquids through such a large territory, you need tanker planes and there simply aren´t so many tanker planes circulating out there.

Third, because regular passenger jets can´t be used to disperse chemicals and transport people at the same time, simply because the dispersion mechanisms and tanks would take ninety percent of the seats and all storage compartment.

Fourth, because even if some people say that chemtrail planes are just disguised as regular passenger jets, then there´s too much problems with the logistic...Too many people would be involved, including tens of thousands of civilian airport workers...It would be impossible to keep it classified nowadays.

Fifth, because if all those chemtrails videos and pictures are legitimate, and are made by military aircraft, there simply aren´t enough airforce bases with enough space to fit all the necessary tankers to perform such incredibly difficult task that consists of covering the whole US sky with chemtrails on a daily or even weekly basis.

So, there´s just too many holes in this story...Sure, there might be some airplanes spraying chemicals in the atmosphere. However, I´m 100% sure, just by using common sense and a little bit of research, that at least 95% of all chemtrail videos and pictures out there are simply regular condensation trails.

Fact is that people have no means to visually differentiated a contrail from a chemtrail, so they bypass logic and common sense, making their conclusions exclusively through their pre-established belief systems.

Anyway, I believe you should reformulate this poll if you want to achieve a useful conclusion.

My conclusion is that I don´t know if chemtrails exist or not. All I know is that, if they do, they are a much less common occurrence than people believe them to be.

It´s literally impossible for even five percent of all videos and pictures displayed as chemtrail proof to be legitimate.

Cheers,

Raf.

indigopete
8th July 2013, 22:36
Hello Fred

Since I'm one of the people who's been disrupting various threads on this subject lately I'll contribute to the one that's been expressly created for this purpose.

My opinion on this is:

[A] - Yes, atmospheric contamination seems likely to be going on since the "Geo-Engineers" have openly discussed it (although it's possible that most of the spraying isn't publicly admitted to)

[B] - Most of the pictures posted on the internet (including yours) are not of chemtrails, they are regular contrails

For example - take the two planes in your first video. You say they're at "roughly the same altitude". Why do you say this ? One could be at 28,000 feet (Flight level 280) the other could be at 38,000 feet and they'd still look "roughly at the same altitude". You'd have no chance of telling the difference because they'd both look tiny. At the same time, the temperature difference between those flight levels can be about 20 degrees celsius (about 35 degrees F). If the dew point is at 32,000 feet then flights above that altitude would show contrails and ones below it wouldn't.

Why don't you answer the converse question - which is why should contrails dissipate if conditions are not favourable for them to do so ? Why do you expect them to dissipate ? (Please don't say 'because they never did before' - nobody ever looked before chemtrail videos started appearing). They were there from the 1940's onwards. Also, why should regular, non-chemtrailing contrails not fan out and form haze clouds. Again, "I don't remember them doing that" is not a satisfactory answer. I was gazing up at contrails back in the 70's and I remember them doing that. It would also be scientifically weird if they didn't - a contrail is a "cloud" the same as any other cloud so it's going to do "cloudy" things.

In your second video, again it's just a load of low and high level haze - you could get that weather with or without chemtrails.

I see that kind of weather all the time here in Spain - it happens for all kinds of reasons because even though it's a clear day, the atmosphere is full of moisture.

indigopete
8th July 2013, 22:50
Here's a picture from the Imperial War Museum in England taken on 18th September 1940.

So no chemtrail debunking site or anything, just a bog standard museum holding aerial photographs taken after an air battle over Kent.

This isn't even high altitude bombers - this is just regular piston engined fighters which have left these contrails. Despite that, it's the kind of thing that could easily have modern day "chemtrailers" nodding in disgusted agreement that it's aerial spraying that's been taking place here and yet it isn't. It's condensation trails from regular aircraft.

http://www.iwm.org.uk/history/the-battle-of-britain

WhiteFeather
8th July 2013, 23:35
I voted Yes Fred without any doubt in my opened mind. Geoengineering/Cloudseeding whatever you want to label it, is being performed right before our blind eyes. Here's the 5 Star Video that convinced me. Retired USDA Rosalind Peterson explains it rather conclusively. Somethings up in our skys. And it aint normal. Please give this video a look Peeps.

Rosalind Peterson of California Skywatch was a certified U.S.D.A. Farm Service Agency Crop Loss Adjustor working in more than ten counties throughout California. She now spearheads a watchdog group that monitors uncontrolled experimental weather modification programs, atmospheric heating and testing programs, and ocean and atmospheric experimental geoengineering programs Peterson is at the forefront of the chemtrail research field and how the unexplained patterns that scar our skies are “causing detrimental human health effects and environmental degradation.”

In this 1-hour plus video exclusive for Prison Planet.tv members, Peterson reveals how she was first spurred to investigate chemtrails after being alerted to them by someone at the Mendocino County Probation Department. Peterson then began to intensely study the phenomenon and note that aircraft producing the trails would circle the county in a clock-like loop, covering the entire area with a cloudy haze in as little as three hours. Peterson cites NASA studies showing that the chemtrails turn into man-made clouds, exacerbating artificial climate change. However, Peterson states her contention that NASA is attempting to cover-up the true nature of chemtrails and convince people that they are a natural phenomenon, a ruse dutifully parroted by top weather and satellite observatories, who as Peterson explains acknowledge the fact that man-made chemtrails are changing the weather yet still label them as natural weather fronts in their public broadcasts.

Peterson shows a map provided by the FAA which reveals how “intra-flights” – mainly of military origin – are causing the chemtrails by flying in loops around counties in flight paths that differ substantially from normal airline trajectories. The flights have no other obvious purpose than to disperse chemtrails because they have no fixed destination, they merely fly around and around in circles.

As proponents of geoengineering like Obama’s science czar John P. Holdren have proposed, blocking sunlight is a primary effect of chemtrailing, and sulphur could be one of the chemicals being dispersed by these trails. As Peterson explains, sulphur has been linked with a host of health problems, which is why California removed it from diesel fuel in the first place.

After studying water quality samples for the state of California stretching back some 30 years, Peterson found that starting from 1990, water sources were all registering unusual spikes in certain chemicals at precisely the same time, namely arsenic, barium, aluminum, calcium, manganese, magnesium, lead and iron. By measuring the spikes in these chemicals in the water supply with similar spikes in these chemicals in air quality samples, Peterson was able to conclude that the cause was airborne and that it had to be coming from the atmosphere. Peterson notes that mixing aluminum and barium creates clouds and that NASA experiments based around this concept were coinciding with the spikes in such chemicals measured in water and air quality samples.

This is an enlightening, detailed and documented explanation of how chemtrailing is being conducted, who is responsible for it and what the consequences are for our health and the environment.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTxvWLrUeE8

Another1
8th July 2013, 23:37
I agree that the main point to hold back actual conversations on this topic is the difference tween contrail and chemtrail.

If you type 'chemtrails admitted' into the google search engine you'll find admissions from guberment agencies that yes indeed they are filling the sky with all kinds of stuff. One of their simplest stories is the Air Force practicing with chaff (helps them hide from radar). In one case local weather stations report artificial clouds as big as Rhode Island explained away as pilots practicing with their chaff.

IMO - Seeing alleged 'contrails' make a 180 degree turn can not be explained away as commercial planes just carrying people around.

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Mike
8th July 2013, 23:46
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RMorgan
8th July 2013, 23:47
Hey folks,

I propose a brainstorm session to elucidate this issue once and for all.

Let´s start with the hypothetical premise that all or at least most part of people from all around the US, including many members here, who believe to see chemtrails on a daily or weekly basis, are right. All these reports are legitimate.

However, we know regular passenger airplanes can´t be modified to conduct regular commercial flights and spray chemicals at the same time. There´s simply isn´t enough interior space to accommodate all the equipment, tanks, people, fuel and luggage. No passenger commercial airplane could support that much weight, anyway, while still conducting its normal activities. Even if it was possible to conceal all equipment and tanks, which is not, all the extra liquid would be extremely heavy.

So, let´s ask a few questions:

-How many dedicated chemtrail dispersion airplanes would be necessary to cover all the US, in order to legitimate all these sightings?

-From where all those dedicated airplanes take off? Where do they land? Where do they stop to refuel? Where they are stored and maintained?

-If they take off and land on military bases, has anyone here ever seen personally or not, any military base cluttered with tankers or suspicious airplanes? How many military bases and how much space would be necessary to park and maintain all those airplanes?

-If they take off and land on regular airports, has anyone here ever seen any movement of tankers on regular airports, or heard any suspicious report from even one of the thousands of civilian airport workers scattered all around the US? Chemtrail airplanes wouldn´t go unnoticed, specially nowadays, when airport traffic controllers are already busy enough coordinating the yearly increasing number of commercial aircrafts. It´s a fact that even the biggest airports are already having a difficult time handling all the commercial traffic.

-Airplanes are huge objects. It would be very hard, if not impossible, to hide all those huge chemtrail dedicated airplanes necessary to cover such a huge territory, from public view. How would you suggest this logistic system could theoretically work?

These are just a few questions...Feel free to add more or make observations about any of them.

Let´s use intelligence and logic to achieve a conclusion, instead of regurgitating the same old videos and flawed arguments that where factually refuted beyond any doubt a billion times already; Please, I know you´re smarter than that.

Cheers,

Raf.

naste.de.lumina
8th July 2013, 23:49
Comercial Airlines Caught Spraying Chemtrails Over Europe
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Edited - Video description above



http://tinyurl.com/bmdr2pd - CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE for COVERT GEOENGINEERING: In 2010 Aerospace Engineers published conclusive evidence for Covert Stratospheric Aerosol Geoengineering, (aka "Chemtrails") in a 336 page report called "CASE ORANGE". The report was commissioned by THE BELFORT GROUP (UK), who held a "CHEMTRAILS SYMPOSIUM" where the conclusions were presented by Aerospace Engineer, Dr. Coen Vermeeren. -- ALSO: The term "chemtrails" is in the text of 2001 legislation (HR-2977) defined as an "exotic weapon".

Alt Link http://saive.com/BELFORT.html

HR-2977 legislation "Chemtrails": http://tinyurl.com/7d7v57o

thunder24
8th July 2013, 23:58
well i know for a fact, i see them refueling in the air... I know for a fact that commercial planes and military planes fly over my house... along with planes that spray... the planes that spray always have a different angle of trajectory to them, then do the commercial and military planes. I have driven from the coast and observored once the appalchians were in sight, nothing but chemtrail planes... they were everywhere, but you couldn't get this view from being right under them...

with the long distance of sight, it was unbelievable....

flying back from toronto... clear day not a cloud or chem trail in sight, as soon, as we go over the great lakes... nothing but banks of artificial clouds, its obviously done in grid patterns....

where i live, people were setting up crystal cloud busters...... black heliicopters and X'S made from.....chemtrails..... over there house... on a bright sunny, cloudless day

peace

indigopete
9th July 2013, 00:02
Chinaski -

I suppose people see what they want to see. To many, that video is proof of chemtrailling. To me it's proof that, at least that aircraft, ISN'T chemtrailing.

I commented on that video in another thread so I'll just quote my previous remark (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60913-BBC-Wimbledon-advertising-tournament-says-it-all-Packed-with-chemtrail-subliminal-messages&p=699160&viewfull=1#post699160) here for those that didn't read it...


Everything in that video is consistent with a genuine aero-engine condensation trail and not with contaminant spraying. Do you notice how uneven the "spray" is for example. Sometimes it disappears, then it comes on very slightly, then more heavily, then it disappears again. That's exactly how condensation trails behave because they are subject to to variations in the ambient temperature, humidity, aircraft height and configuration.

A spray effulent on the other hand, isn't subject to ANY of these variations. It's only dependent on whether the deploy switch is on or off so it should be either constantly on or constantly off.

WhiteFeather
9th July 2013, 00:09
Hey folks,

I proposed a brainstorm session to elucidate this issue once and for all.

Let´s start with the hypothetical premise that all or at least most part of people from all around the US, including many members here, who believe to see chemtrails on a daily or weekly basis, are right. All these reports are legitimate.

However, we know regular passenger airplanes can´t be modified to conduct regular commercial flights and spray chemicals at the same time. There´s simply isn´t enough interior space to accommodate all the equipment, tanks, people, fuel and luggage. No passenger commercial airplane could support that much weight, anyway, while still conducting its normal activities. Even if it was possible to conceal all equipment and tanks, which is not, all the extra liquid would be extremely heavy.

So, let´s ask a few questions:

-How many dedicated chemtrail dispersion airplanes would be necessary to cover all the US, in order to legitimate all these sightings?

-From where all those dedicated airplanes take off? Where do they land? Where do they stop to refuel? Where they are stored and maintained?

-If they take off and land on military basis, has anyone here ever seen personally or not, any military base cluttered with tankers or suspicious airplanes? How many military bases and how much space would be necessary to park and maintain all those airplanes?

-If they take off and land on regular airports, has anyone here ever seen any movement of tankers on regular airports, or heard any suspicious report from even one of the thousands of civilian airport workers scattered all around the US? Chemtrail airplanes wouldn´t go unnoticed, specially nowadays, when airport traffic controllers are already busy enough coordinating the yearly increasing number of commercial aircrafts. It´s a fact that even the biggest airports are already having a difficult time handling all the commercial traffic.

-Airplanes are huge objects. It would be very hard, if not impossible, to hide all those huge chemtrail dedicated airplanes necessary to cover such a huge territory, from public view. How would you suggest this logistic system could theoretically work?

These are just a few questions...Feel free to add more or make observations about any of them.

Cheers,

Raf.

Raf, I have not observed commercial airlines showing any signs of leaving chemtrail plumes. Its the other ones which are owned and operated by the pirates whom hijacked our global governments. The pirates are spraying with their own pirate spray planes. Some say Evergreen Airlines are involved as well. Evergreen Airlines could possibly be operated by an extension of Haliburton or some 3 letter alphabet agency. And surely NSA comes to mind as well.

RMorgan
9th July 2013, 00:15
Raf, I have not observed commercial airlines showing any signs of leaving chemtrail plumes. Its the other ones which are owned and operated by the pirates whom hijacked our global governments. The pirates are spraying with their own pirate spray planes. Some say Evergreen Airlines are involved as well. Evergreen Airlines could possibly be operated by an extension of Haliburton or some 3 letter alphabet agency. And surely NSA comes to mind as well.

Thanks for participating in this brainstorm session, my friend.

So, in your opinion, they are using dedicated chemtrail airplanes indeed.

This leaves us with a few remaining questions to be answered:

-How many dedicated chemtrail dispersion airplanes would be necessary to cover all the US, in order to legitimate all these sightings, which are reported by the hundreds, daily, from all parts of the country?

-From where all those dedicated airplanes take off? Where do they land? Where do they stop to refuel and refill the chemical tanks? Where they are stored and maintained? Would it be possible to conduct such a huge operation while retaining its secrecy?

My opinion still is that, even a very consolidated and logistically sound chemtrail operation, would not be able to cover even five percent of the huge number of daily reported chemtrail occurrences, which leads me to believe that at least 90% of chemtrail reports are simple condensation trails.

Cheers,

Raf.

Vitalux
9th July 2013, 00:16
Personally for me....

I use Chemtrails to test to see who is awake. :lazy2:

I wish to thank the "Powers that Be" for taking all the trouble to make those Chem trails world wide, just so that I can spot who's awake :high5:

Mike
9th July 2013, 00:20
hey Raf,

I don't think too much secrecy would be required at all to pull this off. the human race are a bunch of walking zombies. I pointed out a tic-tac-toe board of what I believed to be chemtrails to my uncle last week, and he looked up between bites of his hamburger and said: "hmmm"...and went right back to eating his burger. and he's a pretty smart guy! the average person just isn't interested.

think of all the secret and sordid treasonous actions taken by our government (shadow). think about 911. think of all the people involved, all the resources, and all the secrets that had to be kept by various people along the ley lines of the NWO pyramid. it's not just the NWO that are hierarchal and compartmentalized, everything is. it is *the* standard business model for everything, including airports. I honestly don't know if i'm overestimating the zombiehood of 9-5ers or if you're underestimating it, but generally people - especially overworked people - just want to put their head down, do the job and go home to a cold one. they're not out to rock the boat. it doesn't mean they don't see suspicious activity from time to time - consider the 'Janet' planes that fly out of McCarren airport to area 51 on a daily basis. everyone knows they're there; everyone knows where they're going; but nobody asks questions and nobody speaks to the media about the goings-on there. why?

the aircraft in the video I posted looks to me like a standard passenger jet. so do many of the others in the various chemtrail vids i've seen. you raise many valid points, and ask many valid questions that I cant really answer. my guess is that these jets hide right in plain view - they appear so normal and pedestrian than nobody gives them much thought. there certainly aren't a fleet of them at every airport; there wouldn't have to be. assuming there are 4 or 5 of these planes at my local airport, it would seem like a relatively easy secret to keep. only a select few would be required to operate them: various pilots and those that coordinate take-offs etc...Sure, people would see them, and might ask questions, but 95% of the employees would be forced to say "I don't know"...because they wouldn't.

I haven't entirely made up my mind, but i'm quite convinced of the existence of chemtrails. But due to the lack of overwhelming evidence, and the pressing questions that have been asked by yourself and others, a slight leap of faith is involved. i'm not quite in mid-air, but i'm ready take the leap.

Another1
9th July 2013, 00:21
Would it be possible to conduct such a huge operation while remaining its secrecy?

The Manhatten project which created our big bombs dropped on Japan is proof enough of how well they can keep a secret. The whole story is being told now so a person can get an idea of the lengths they will go to keep a secret and that was achieved near 70 years ago.

Threaten the average human's life or money intake and they will do as they are told. That's justa fact.
Tell them it's national security issue and most will do as told, keep the secrets.

naste.de.lumina
9th July 2013, 00:21
Raf, I have not observed commercial airlines showing any signs of leaving chemtrail plumes. Its the other ones which are owned and operated by the pirates whom hijacked our global governments. The pirates are spraying with their own pirate spray planes. Some say Evergreen Airlines are involved as well. Evergreen Airlines could possibly be operated by an extension of Haliburton or some 3 letter alphabet agency. And surely NSA comes to mind as well.

Thanks for participating in this brainstorm session, my friend.

So, in your opinion, they are using dedicated chemtrail airplanes indeed.

This leaves us with a few remaining questions to be answered:

-How many dedicated chemtrail dispersion airplanes would be necessary to cover all the US, in order to legitimate all these sightings, which are reported by the hundreds, daily, from all parts of the country?

-From where all those dedicated airplanes take off? Where do they land? Where do they stop to refuel and refill the chemical tanks? Where they are stored and maintained? Would it be possible to conduct such a huge operation while retaining its secrecy?

Cheers,

Raf.

Brother.
Commercial aircraft also are used.

PQGvVEUQjzo

This image is not case for interpretation.
They speak for themselves.

indigopete
9th July 2013, 00:22
Folks - here is a pristene example of what I'm talking about.

naste.de.lumina has posted - in this very thread - a video taken out of the window of an airliner (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60948-Chemtrails-Fact-Or-New-Age-Myth&p=699352&viewfull=1#post699352) flying at altitude of another airliner's contrails.

All the cloud, weather and contrail phenomena in the video are regular, Absolutely nothing abnormal whatsoever - nothing wrong with the contrail emmanating from the Easyjet aircraft, nothing wrong with the high altitude currus clouds, nothing wrong with ANYTHING !! :)

And yet - the whole thing is narrated with a melodramatic monologue describing how commercial airliners are spraying aerosols on an ongoing basis. No explanation as to the basis for the assertion, no discussion of the phenomena observed and what makes them distinct from the expected observations. Furthermore, the video asserts that the *actual aircraft* observed from the window is spraying, even though you could not get a more regular contrail than the one emanating from its engines !

Just a load of subjective propaganda (possibly illegal propaganda at that). If I were Easyjet I'd sue that poster for damages unless they backed up their claim that that actual aircraft was spraying contaminants.

That would soon concentrate the mind and maybe stimulate a bit of real research.

Mike
9th July 2013, 00:23
Chinaski -

I suppose people see what they want to see. To many, that video is proof of chemtrailling. To me it's proof that, at least that aircraft, ISN'T chemtrailing.

I commented on that video in another thread so I'll just quote my previous remark (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60913-BBC-Wimbledon-advertising-tournament-says-it-all-Packed-with-chemtrail-subliminal-messages&p=699160&viewfull=1#post699160) here for those that didn't read it...


Everything in that video is consistent with a genuine aero-engine condensation trail and not with contaminant spraying. Do you notice how uneven the "spray" is for example. Sometimes it disappears, then it comes on very slightly, then more heavily, then it disappears again. That's exactly how condensation trails behave because they are subject to to variations in the ambient temperature, humidity, aircraft height and configuration.

A spray effulent on the other hand, isn't subject to ANY of these variations. It's only dependent on whether the deploy switch is on or off so it should be either constantly on or constantly off.


hi mate,

I interpreted it a little different.

the plane is flying at a consistent altitude: i'd expect the ambient temp, humidity, and configuration etc to stay the same. or if it did change subtly, i'd expect a subtle change in the trail.

the on/off effect of the trail suggests an intelligent control of the dispersal to me.

my 2 cents.

indigopete
9th July 2013, 00:32
the plane is flying at a consistent altitude: i'd expect the ambient temp, humidity, and configuration etc to stay the same

But why would you expect that ?

Have you got some meteorology training that informs your expectations ?

What do think's happening with these clouds if not subtle variations in the temperature and humidity at a constant altitude ?

21982

Mike
9th July 2013, 00:36
the plane is flying at a consistent altitude: i'd expect the ambient temp, humidity, and configuration etc to stay the same

But why would you expect that ?

Have you got some meteorology training that informs your expectations ?

What do think's happening with these clouds if not subtle variations in the temperature and humidity at a constant altitude ?

21982

it's a consistent pattern. the clouds are all behaving the same way. it's not erratic, like the spray.

common sense degree is all that's required.

thunder24
9th July 2013, 00:38
As a kid my eye was to the sky, always...ALWAYS...

The condensation trails of commercial aircraft, never...never ....left long streaking tails.... always dissappeared!

After 9/11, something started my path of search... i found the chemtrail book and realized there was a huge difference since i was a kid...11 years prior...

5 years ago, i worked on the top of a mountain creating a subdivision,, very small.... one day while mowing....bright and sunny... they start spraying over top of us... the trails came down to I want to say 100 feet or less above us, before we got in the cars and allowed them to pass over... didn't pass... it spread, and by the end of the day, the sky was gray... condensation doesn't turn the sky gray

Tesseract
9th July 2013, 00:40
For a long while I thought chemtrails were regarded as a bit of a running joke by the alternative community. Now I say this at the risk of giving the impression of ridicule, but I thought that the source of the humour lied in the sheer preposterousness of the whole idea. I still don’t know if this whole thing got serious by mistake... Someone told me once that rainbows didn’t grace the sky in antediluvian times... I wonder if that one didn’t start its life as a campfire joke as well.:p

But seriously now, humans have flown planes through hurricanes to measure the wind speed, through thunderstorms to get hit by lightening, above active volcanoes to measure the gases present – I don’t think it’s too much to ask that someone who is interested in this flies a chartered plane furnished with a couple of carbon or silica aerogel filters through a chemtrail or two. You’ll find your barium or organic carcinogen if it’s there. You could probably even detect it from the ground using conventional geophysical/spectroscopy equipment although I think the aerial collection experiment would be more direct. Don’t complain about the price because y’all just gave Icke 300 000 quid.:evil:

Tesseract
9th July 2013, 00:51
Hey Raf,

I think that you're not up to speed on the latest theory here :). What happens, don't you know, is that the toxic agent is added to the aviation fuel. The airliners just fly around on their business and re-fuel as normal - the agent is dispersed in the exhaust cloud. All the shenanigans happen at the fuel refinery.

As an aside - this is actually true! Small non-jet aircraft still use leaded fuel and release quite poisonous lead containing exhaust, but they don't often fly high enough to leave a visible trail. In fact, when you think of all the cars that used to run on leaded petrol the chemtrail thing seems like a minor concern :)

donk
9th July 2013, 00:52
I don't think anything should be allowed to leave a contrail that lingers more than a couple seconds. There should be emissions standards, any craft that causes anything to stay in the air blocking out the sky for any length of time should be illegal. We wouldn't let cars emit that ****, why do we let planes?

It's like 911. "How" f*cking matters. Not as much as "why"? But neither "how" nor "why" matter as much as that they happened. Policy was implemented to attempt to prevent a 911 type attack. Policy should be implemented to prevent **** gunking up my sky.

Sure, I believe we're getting malevolently sprayed by nasty ****, and the weather is controlled, and all kinds of bad stuff, but none of that arguable nonsense even matters...not as much as contrails that turns sunny days to overcast in less than hour should not be allowed. Even if its water vapor.

You can't deny it, or fudge the data. You don't gotta be a geo-engineer to figure that out

ghostrider
9th July 2013, 00:57
I found a webpage, with air force personel, inside a converted aircraft, with drums inside , where seats were... the labels posted near the drums were yellow and black hazmat signs...the patch on the man's flightsuit read, spraying you since 1996 ... there were computers onboard, and cables/wires attacted to the drums , appearing to be time released , my guess ... it had a crew ( in the photo) of four people, two looked like pilots, two looked like science techs... clouds don't make x's in the sky ... I seen too many photos( too many to count) of chemtrail spraying , with different devices in different places on the planes ...I know they are spraying something, who knows why, or what chemicals they use ... one can look up at the sky and see right away, clouds look different , waffle patterns and x's , two days later freak storms break out ... dutch on yt has documented this fact 112 times , it was correct each time, they spray 24 to 48 hrs later there was severe weather in the sprayed area ... I'll ask this question to ponder for those on the fence, When is the last time you saw a clear blue cloudless sky ALL DAY ??? great thread Fred, we gotta get to the bottom of this ... if it were contrails why haven't we been debating contrails since the begining of jet airplanes ??? contrails don't hang around ... IMO it is weather modification... member the haboo dust storm in arizona ??? I'd like to see a chart of the weather pre 1996 and then after ...

indigopete
9th July 2013, 00:58
it's a consistent pattern. it's not erratic, like the spray.

common sense degree is all that's required.

This is the kind of glaekit remark that's basically turned me right off the whole subject of chemtrails. The less you know the more confident you can be.

I won't bore you with more pictures of altocumulus clouds that "aren't consistent". All I'll say is, next time you get on a plane, you'd better hope that the folks that built it and fly it had more than "common sense degrees".

21983

sigma6
9th July 2013, 01:06
jf0khstYDLA


mEfJO0-cTis

Mike
9th July 2013, 01:11
Glaekit? Uh...OK.

Look a little closer at my quote genius. I said the pattern *is* consistent.

Have you really decided to stop being boring? Well then I'll expect a little more outta ya next time killer.

indigopete
9th July 2013, 01:15
What happens, don't you know, is that the toxic agent is added to the aviation fuel. The airliners just fly around on their business and re-fuel as normal - the agent is dispersed in the exhaust cloud. All the shenanigans happen at the fuel refinery.

I'd love to know how you know this.

I think that this is just a theory cooked up to explain how chemtrails can get into controlled airspace. But then again, that's just my opinion - if I knew that it had been checked out and found to contain addatives that weren't supposed to be there then I'd change my mind.

It's not as if it's exactly controversial. Aviation fuel is all over the place and gets tested a million times a day in hundreds of independent laborotories. So the additives are either there or they aren't. If they are there, what are they doing to aircraft engines ? When were the engines re-desiged to accommodate the addatives ?

If they weren't re-designed and the addatives are causing such huge trails in the sky then they must be affecting engine efficiency. Why are pilots not noticing that they're getting less range for the same fuel quantities ?

thunder24
9th July 2013, 01:15
The protocols of learned elders of zion, i think it was, said they were gonna kill us with soft metals....

reports of barium being in your ...fresh, clean, pristine, mountain spring water. How would barium, make it into pristine mountain springs....



must b them damn hillbillies again cooking meth right?

Tesseract
9th July 2013, 01:18
I don't think anything should be allowed to leave a contrail that lingers more than a couple seconds.

Never fear Donk, to un-blot the heavens all it takes is a little less praying and a little more spraying :)

YsdeAF_Prfo

Gardener
9th July 2013, 01:19
A week ago I watched as the classical hatch patterns were made which form a large letter A in the middle, which could be quite easy to dismiss as flight patterns from relevemt airports. The difference with these trails was that they were a different colour to the normal whitish, they were mushroom brown, on a clear sunny day in blue skies. There haven't been any trails for a number of weeks in my area, then this brownish hatching. Its the first time I have seen this colour. Brown condensation?

I have a problem with the logistics for sure; passenger/baggage weight is balanced with how much fuel can be taken onboard pre flight. Its a fine tuned arrangement. So its my 'opinion' we may need to look at this from a different angle. There is far too much BS in the tube videos plus some cgi like the one above where the clouds don't move.

So yes I am pretty sure that chemtrails exist/are happening and a ball park guess is that it is added to the fuel at a much earlier stage of the game, and delivered to where 'they' need to place the stuff. For instance, the airlines may not know they are a party to it.

Need to think out of the box some.

Meanwhile still watching, might keep a diary.........the brown ones really got my attention though.

Mike
9th July 2013, 01:20
Engines don't get 'redesiged" Pete. They get redesigned.

You were saying something about a degree?

indigopete
9th July 2013, 01:24
Look a little closer at my quote genius. I said the pattern *is* consistent.

Yes - I knew that thanks. You were implying that the cloud pattern was consistent and the "spray pattern" wasn't - as if that's a basis for the chemtrail claim.

I don't know how your train of thought leads you there but it's not something I'd call "common sense". If you've ever used a garden hose it doesn't run in fits and starts after you turn the tap on.

A regular aero engine condensation trail however *does* do that for the reason's I've just explained. They've done that for the last 70 odd years since aero engines were invented. I won't say it's a conclusive reason that chemtrails don't exists but it's certainly not a conclusive reason that they do which is what that video is trying to convince people of.

Another1
9th July 2013, 01:25
One thing is certain, the campaign to debunk chemtrails hopped into full force again this week. It's been coming in waves over the years from my perspective and once again youtube video comments are being slammed by people who can prove every fact we have is a lie *LOL* one of them creeps has even adopted me again ...

Google search is handy in that it will show you many independent weather/news reports from around the country. It looks like some of them folks are really scratching their heads in the smaller teeeveee stations while the big boys will run outright biased hit pieces suggesting our tin foil hats are too tight.

Google Search 'chemtrails admitted' - 'chemtrails on radar'

Prodigal Son
9th July 2013, 01:26
Hey Raf,

I think that you're not up to speed on the latest theory here :). What happens, don't you know, is that the toxic agent is added to the aviation fuel. The airliners just fly around on their business and re-fuel as normal - the agent is dispersed in the exhaust cloud. All the shenanigans happen at the fuel refinery.



A good friend of mine is a private jet pilot, and he told me that some years ago the FAA began requiring an ice-inhibiting fuel additive called PRIST. I suspect this could be one of the means of covertly using commercial airliners to disperse chemtrails.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_system_icing_inhibitor

indigopete
9th July 2013, 01:28
Engines don't get 'redesiged" Pete. They get redesigned.

Well if we're down to my spelling mistakes then I think I'm done. I won't try to defend the indefensible :)

Tesseract
9th July 2013, 01:29
What happens, don't you know, is that the toxic agent is added to the aviation fuel. The airliners just fly around on their business and re-fuel as normal - the agent is dispersed in the exhaust cloud. All the shenanigans happen at the fuel refinery.

I'd love to know how you know this.

I think that this is just a theory cooked up to explain how chemtrails can get into controlled airspace. But then again, that's just my opinion - if I knew that it had been checked out and found to contain addatives that weren't supposed to be there then I'd change my mind.

It's not as if it's exactly controversial. Aviation fuel is all over the place and gets tested a million times a day in hundreds of independent laborotories. So the additives are either there or they aren't. If they are there, what are they doing to aircraft engines ? When were the engines re-desiged to accommodate the addatives ?

If they weren't re-designed and the addatives are causing such huge trails in the sky then they must be affecting engine efficiency. Why are pilots not noticing that they're getting less range for the same fuel quantities ?

I was being cheeky there Pete :) Thanks for intensifying the point though :) Incidentally I did pour 50 mL of acetone into my 1976 Toyota Corolla's fuel tank once and didn't notice anything. Of course the acetone would have burned up in the combustion process and not exited intact via the exhaust. You probably want an organometallic if you want a toxin to survive the extremes of combustion. For the right trade off between toxicity and handle-ability I recommend something from the P-block of elements:


21984

Mike
9th July 2013, 01:32
Well if you hadn't called me 'glaekit' ( and forcing me to the dictionary by the way) I wouldn't have mentioned it mate.;)

OK, now back to our regularly scheduled programming...

indigopete
9th July 2013, 01:44
One thing is certain, the campaign to debunk chemtrails hopped into full force again this week. It's been coming in waves over the years from my perspective and once again youtube video comments are being slammed by people who can prove every fact we have is a lie *LOL* one of them creeps has even adopted me again ...

It's not a campaign to debunk chemtrails - at least not from my point of view.

It's a campaign to debunk a lot of the misunderstandings and disinfo associated with the subject. When I say "disinfo", it's maybe the wrong term because most of it is innocent. It's just people picking up on rumours and running with it while adding a bit of imagination of their own.

You should look at it as doing the chemtrail agenda a favour. If it's ever going to get anywhere its not going to be helped by a load of baseless hysteria. I've been on the other side of the debate enough to know what it's like banging your head against a brick wall - especially with the 9/11 stuff. I've served my time arguing about collapsing buildings and trying to get people to look at another way.

Now I find myself on the other side of the conspiracy fence but I didn't create that fence. It's just that the moment you question anything to do with chemtrails you're about as popular as wet blanket in winter on these types of forums.

indigopete
9th July 2013, 01:48
Well if you hadn't called me 'glaekit' ( and forcing me to the dictionary by the way) I wouldn't have mentioned it mate

I didn't call you personally "glaekit", I called your remark glaekit which it was.

I'm sure you personally are a highly respectable and informed contributor, who would never knowingly make silly remarks which is why I thought I'd bring it to your attention.

Tesseract
9th July 2013, 01:51
Now I find myself on the other side of the conspiracy fence but I didn't create that fence. It's just that the moment you question anything to do with chemtrails you're about as popular as wet blanket in winter.


4/29; a respectable protest vote :)

Another1
9th July 2013, 01:53
One thing is certain, the campaign to debunk chemtrails hopped into full force again this week. It's been coming in waves over the years from my perspective and once again youtube video comments are being slammed by people who can prove every fact we have is a lie *LOL* one of them creeps has even adopted me again ...

It's not a campaign to debunk chemtrails - at least not from my point of view.

It's a campaign to debunk a lot of the misunderstandings and disinfo associated with the subject. When I say "disinfo", it's maybe the wrong term because most of it is innocent. It's just people picking up on rumours and running with it while adding a bit of imagination of their own.

You should look at it as doing the chemtrail agenda a favour. If it's ever going to get anywhere its not going to be helped by a load of baseless hysteria. I've been on the other side of the debate enough to know what it's like banging your head against a brick wall - especially with the 9/11 stuff. I've served my time arguing about collapsing buildings and trying to get people to look at another way.

Now I find myself on the other side of the conspiracy fence but I didn't create that fence. It's just that the moment you question anything to do with chemtrails you're about as popular as wet blanket in winter.

Well, to be fair, take your statement and change the word chemtrails to David Icke or Alex Jones and you'll get the same effect.

It took some grit through that 911 thing to have real world experience while debating people who only had what faux snooze told them.

My comment about debunking campaign was not aimed at you or anyone in particular. If I pushed the button wrong and made it seem that way, my apologies. To borrow a line from an actor in a sci-fi series, "I'm a scientist at heart. Finding out I am wrong is just as exciting as finding out I am right."

There is deliberate dis-info campaign being run for giggles or to just keep us busy as usual, or to hide something. Just like with 911.

Mike
9th July 2013, 01:56
Well if you hadn't called me 'glaekit' ( and forcing me to the dictionary by the way) I wouldn't have mentioned it mate

I didn't call you personally "glaekit", I called your remark glaekit which it was.

I'm sure you personally are a highly respectable and informed contributor, who would never knowingly make silly remarks which is why I thought I'd bring it to your attention.


Well next time speak in a universal idiom please. Call the comment dumb, or stupid...and this way I can skip the looking up of the word and so on, and can get right to telling you how stupid your posts are as well ( not you of course...just your posts:confused:) and we can save each other a lot of time and so on.

Deal?

indigopete
9th July 2013, 02:08
My comment about debunking campaign was not aimed at you or anyone in particular. If I pushed the button wrong and made it seem that way, my apologies. To borrow a line from an actor in a sci-fi series, "I'm a scientist at heart. Finding out I am wrong is just as exciting as finding out I am right."

No problem - you didn't push any wrong buttons at all. It was a point worth making whatever.

Just to balance some of the arguments I've been making, there are some good and informative sources around. Sigma6 and others have posted links to the "Why on Earth are they Spraying" documentary which has got a lot of genuinely informative stuff in it.

The thing is, if you watch that documentary, there's still a bridge to gap with the spraying - who and how are they spraying it. Near the beginning, it's asserted that (can't quite remember the exact amount but) about 10-20 million tons of aerosol would be needed for the geo-engineering programme. That little statistic probably floats past most people but if you relate it to what the "contrails are chemtrails' lobby are saying than it doesn't remotely square. They'd have to be spraying millions of tons to justify the latter group's observations.

So I'm not anti chemtrail conspiracy or weather modification conspiracy. I'm anti people not putting their brain in gear and thinking for themselves when they look up in the sky and say 'that contrail's a chemtrail".

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Deal?

ok, deal Chinaski. Sorry about that - just tripped off the tongue too easily.

Paul
9th July 2013, 02:09
Thanks Fred I think chemtrails are real and there are various reasons for them. I
have posted many times and ex pilot Fred 239 ? ...That would be Fred259.

Another1
9th July 2013, 02:17
Information found here after typing 'patents on chemtrails' into google search (http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/an-extensive-list-of-patents/)

These patents go back 30 years giving them ownership of the concepts to do many of the things people say are just conspiracy nuttery today.

United States Patent and Trademark Office



USRE29142 (http://www.google.com/patents/USRE29142?printsec=abstract&dq=USRE29142&ei=32hLUPP8D5OK9gSV5YHgCA#v=onepage&q&f=false) – This patent is a reissue of patent US3630950 – Combustible compositions for generating aerosols, particularly suitable for cloud modification and weather control and aerosolization process
3659785 (http://www.google.com/patents/US3659785?printsec=abstract&dq=3659785&ei=tmhLUIP2DY6c8QS_7YD4CA#v=onepage&q=3659785&f=false) – December 8, 1971 – Weather Modification Utilizing Microencapsulated Material
4042196 (http://www.google.com/patents?id=IWkvAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=4042196&source=bl&ots=45a0jl3ve-&sig=tBadz6xF4JB0pGlzYCUikVh04m4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=l2ZLUPG0Oo-C9gT7zIHQDg&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=4042196&f=false) – August 16, 1977 – Method and apparatus for triggering a substantial change in earth characteristics and measuring earth changes

The Potter
9th July 2013, 02:33
Worthy of note is the control of rain after Chernobyl. To avoid radioactive fallout from reaching urban areas, the countryside of Belarus was sacrificed by inducing rain to fall in the area. A quick article for more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1549366/How-we-made-the-Chernobyl-rain.html

Another lesson from history is the removal of lead from gasoline. Lead, like most heavy metals (the comic above was funny) is very toxic to living organisms. Removing airborne lead in the 1970's is now credited with reducing urban crime twenty years later. So until leaded gasoline was banned, cars were actively poisoning the population. http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-link-gasoline

Some random observations that I don't have links for. I have never noticed planes flying in circles and leaving anything in their wake. Nearly all trails I have seen were in straight lines. Some disperse quickly and some appeared to be the roots of clouds that afternoon.
I remember reading an article about a plane taking off, having a problem of sorts, dumping nearly all of its fuel (~75,000L), and then quickly landing. A spill a fraction of that size would be a major concern on land or at sea. I do not recall it being a concern.

There are some legitimate logistical questions mentioned on the last page.
How many planes would it take? One day in Oregon last fall, I remember lazily watching the sky, the planes, and the trails. There were about six. So I will round up ten. It takes about 3 hours to fly from LA to Seattle. So the Western side of the US could be taken care of by less than five planes without much issue. The entire US could be mapped pretty regularly with just 10-20 planes.
I've lived near an Army base and an Air force base. I even could get in-- my father was in the Coast Guard and I had privileges until I was 23. Even when on the base, you cannot see much at all. There are such bases all across the US.

Right now I am in New Zealand. I will pay attention to the sky-- I cannot recall seeing any trails since I got here last December.

thunder24
9th July 2013, 02:46
We will keep their lifespan short and their minds weak while pretending to do the opposite. We will use our knowledge of science and technology in subtle ways so they will never see what is happening. We will use soft metals, aging accelerators and sedatives in food and water, also in the air. They will be blanketed by poisons everywhere they turn.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_illuminati_21.htm

not able to discern authinticity here but this says its from summer solstice 2002





Barium sulfate is used as an insoluble heavy additive to oil well drilling fluid, and in purer form, as X-ray radiocontrast agents for imaging the human gastrointestinal tract. Soluble barium compounds are poisonous due to release of the soluble barium ion, and therefore have been used as rodenticides
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barium
in this context, does that mean barium is in the jet fuel,and thus commercial aircraft do spray us with metals?

Prodigal Son
9th July 2013, 02:47
The protocols of learned elders of zion, i think it was, said they were gonna kill us with soft metals....

reports of barium being in your ...fresh, clean, pristine, mountain spring water. How would barium, a derivative of aluminum, make it into pristine mountain springs....

must b them damn hillbillies again cooking meth right?

This post says it all.

No matter who wrote the protocols, they're being carried out to the letter. In our air, food, and water.

gripreaper
9th July 2013, 03:04
-How many dedicated chemtrail dispersion airplanes would be necessary to cover all the US, in order to legitimate all these sightings, which are reported by the hundreds, daily, from all parts of the country? Cheers, Raf.

Ok, let's start with some simple math. In Oregon, there is a private Evergreen Airport outside McMinnville, which is very suspicious. Do you remember the story about one of their pilots running his mouth at a bar one night a couple years ago?

At any rate, it takes about two planes to cover the city of Portland. I see these planes all the time. If they are just spraying the major cities, it would take about 8 planes to cover the main metropolitan areas of this state. So, lets multiply that by 50 states and you get 400 planes. Now, double that for the higher density states. 800 planes.

Not too difficult to operate a protocol which takes 800 planes. Heck the government has been running drugs into private airports for years. They are able to keep hidden stellar spacecraft for crissakes!

Tesseract
9th July 2013, 03:25
in this context, does that mean barium is in the jet fuel,and thus commercial aircraft do spray us with metals?


Short answer: no one would distribute barium by first placing it in the fuel.

Long answer:

Even getting the barium into jet fuel would be very difficult. Pure barium is a metal - it wouldn't truly dissolve into the jet fuel, but you might be able to introduce it as nano particles - obviously this could cause problems in the fuel and engine system, plus the nanoparticles would blow up in your face if you ever exposed them to air when you were mixing.

Most barium is available as a salt (like barium sulfate as you mentioned) - this would not dissolve in jet fuel because octane type non electrically polar molecules can not interact with Ba2+ strongly enough to solvate it. So, the next idea would be to use organo-barium [in the same vein as tetraethyllead which used to be in petrol, which is an organo-lead compound] - these would dissolve in theory, but unfortunately none are known to exist. There is, however an advanced method that might allow the barium to be incorporated into jet fuel - but I'm not going to mention it here. I'm pretty sure that the idea would never have occurred to a US government scientist and it might be wise not to give it away. Hi there, NSA, thanks for your interest in Project Avalon.

Anyway, even if you could dissolve it - during the combustion of the fuel you would generate BaO or Ba(OH)2, I don't think that jet engines would thrive for too long on a fuel that yielded a solid combustion product.

Sérénité
9th July 2013, 11:05
I think sometimes we need to put the scientific data away for a while. Chances are even the people flying these planes dont know the full story.
If they can spray people from roof tops in the 60's without us knowing, what are they capable of 50 years later?

I have no scientific data to back up what Im saying, but I know what I see with my own eyes on a weekly basis isn't normal.

I know, when I open the curtains in the morning, if the blue sky will soon be turned hazey or to thick clouds and rain depending on how many trails there is and how they are 'reacting' in the sky.

The same way some of us just know there is something wrong with our body or something around us is just not right, you just have to look up and sense what's normal and what is not.

Bubu
9th July 2013, 11:50
I thought chemtrail is a mutually agreed phenomena on PA, but since it is not, here is my two cents (I hope I used that word correctly:eek:). Let’s see if PA can prove this beyond reasonable doubt.

In an attempt to explain the trail behind the ayroplane mainstream science has conveniently used the trail beneath the nose as an example. But there is a big difference. Byproduct of breathing is 50 % water vapor and 50% CO2, temp. is 25 C while the byproduct of combustion on the plane is 90% CO2 and 10% water; temp. 1200 C. Well it is just a wild guess , don’t care, I can surf the net and find figures and my argument will be based on this based on that. That’s not good enough.

But one thing that is sure the byproduct of jet combustion is identical to the byproduct of a simple blow torch; it operates on the same combustion principle and uses similar fuel In fact jet fuel (naptha) can be used for blow torch. Another thing that is certain; Jet combustion byproduct is very different from the byproduct of breathing.

Here’s what we’ll do; we get some blow torch and let it burn over the snow; take a video and let us post and see it here if it produce contrail. If nose produce contrail same as in jet plane in spite of the difference in combustion byproduct (allegedly) then the blow torch should produce far more.

I will add two more cents:eek: that I knew the answer, but for the benefit of others I suggest someone do it. We do not have snow here.

Note: condensation rate is directly proportional to pressure. As pressure below here is higher than pressure up above; there should be more condensation below than above provided the temperature is the same.

Wind
9th July 2013, 11:59
This topic is really interesting and sadly it also divides many people in the alternative community. It's like the 9/11 topic... My thoughts are that chemtrails absolutely exist! I see them on the skies all the time, when it is a sunny day with blue sky it is basically a miracle here!

The question shouldn't be that are they spraying chemtrails, the question should that why they are doing it. I think that chemtrails are being sprayed because they are trying to mitigate the extreme weather changes. Are there chemtrails on third world countries? I don't know and I also don't know that how they are able to pull this off, but I know that they basically have unlimited resources.

Now, would you choose horrendous and deadly weather or that chemical crap your sky? I know that's a tough question, but think about it. Personally I would let mother nature do her thing, but changes don't always seem to be positive to humans. Maybe it would mean that maybe hundreds of thousand or maybe even millions of people would perish in short-term. In a few years it won't probably matter anyways, but it doesn't mean that our game is over. No, but the game is over for cabal soon. You reap what you sow and you know the saying about karma.

If you have the time and the interest then please watch these great videos.

_yy3YJBOw_o
rAxXyMAmBMs
mEfJO0-cTis

Nick Matkin
9th July 2013, 12:20
Good thread. Scary poll results so far…

I’ll put my two pence worth in, though doubt it’ll make any difference.

How about a little critical thinking applied to this subject to see if that throws any light on what’s most likely? Anyone who sees themselves surrounded by conspiracies isn’t capable of critical thinking, nevertheless let’s give it a try…

1) If chemtrailing is real, and done by commercial passenger jets, it must be done with the full knowledge of the pilots because they get calculations on passenger numbers, luggage, cargo (and it’s distribution in the hold) and of course fuel quantity and weight. You can’t smuggle on hundreds of gallons of anything without the pilot realising something is wrong well before take off.

2) Perhaps it’s done by military planes. They must have hundreds reserved for just this job by looking in the sky some days in southern UK. Where do they all take off and land from?

3) Where the hell are millions of gallons of this stuff being manufactured? Where are the raw materials coming from? How is it being transported around the country/world without anyone seeing it? And apparently trundled round invisibly at airports?

4) If it’s added to the fuel, what adverse effects does it have of the very expensive jet engines? Where and when was that determined? Jet fuel quality is VERY carefully monitored by labs all over the world (not just the US) so do you believe there is another conspiracy paying lab staff to keep quite?

5) There are a number of deliberately misleading videos confusing chemtrails with chaff. Chaff is strips of metal or metallised plastic 0.5 to 1 wavelength long at radar wavelengths (an inch or two) for confusing/testing radar. If chemtrails exist, they will not be detected by radar. If you don’t believe that, then look up how radar works.

6) More planes now produce more vapour trails. That’s why you see them now more than before.

7) Modern aircraft are more efficient and an effect of this is the vapour trails are more prominent in some atmospheric conditions. They can last hours – like clouds because that’s what they are.

8) If tons of this stuff is being spayed into the atmosphere, it must float to ground, or break down into other detectable chemicals. How come all the air-quality measurements throughout the developed world have never detected any of this? Oh… yes… they are all government controlled so must keep quite. Well there are many hundreds of well-equipped amateur meteorologists who would soon know if this is actually happening.

9) How about asking a meteorologist (a real one, not a ‘wheel-on’ TV one please) and ask if this is a) possible and b) effective. (Spaying for weather modification is sometimes done – that’s well known. Were talking about mass daily spraying over continents in this thread.)

10) Ask a pilot the same questions.

11) I heard that a pilot had been beaten up by some morons who thought he and his type are responsible. This is insane action and mustn't develop further.

12) Where’s the proof? Let’s have a sample of the stuff with an explanation of where it was made, from what, and how it’s used.

You see, just far too may holes that need filling. And I don’t see any point the posting of more websites or videos unless they specifically answer at least some of the above questions.

Just because crap has been done in the past is not proof it is still happening. Proof means proof, not piles of unverifiable anecdotes and photos of the sky. Really…

Nick

dianna
9th July 2013, 12:25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3lW-TGGlk0


Come to Toronto --- The chemtrails can be absolutely frightening here at times -- I have no doubt that something nefarious is going on when the sky is full of checkerboards, X's and sometimes black looping trails -- all in the span of a couple of hours and all of a sudden sometimes ---

thunder24
9th July 2013, 12:52
Some barium compounds, such as barium carbonate, barium chloride, and barium hydroxide, are used to make ceramics, insect and rat poisons, and additives for oils and fuels; in the treatment of boiler water; in the production of barium greases; as a component in sealants, paper manufacturing, and sugar refining; in animal and vegetable oil refining; and in the protection of objects made of limestone from deterioration

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp24.pdf

Prodigal Son
9th July 2013, 12:55
2) Perhaps it’s done by military planes. They must have hundreds reserved for just this job by looking in the sky some days in southern UK. Where do they all take off and land from? Sure, why not? Do you have access to the data for how many military planes take off and land every day? How long did it take the US Govt to put up thousands of drones?


3) Where the hell are millions of gallons of this stuff being manufactured? Where are the raw materials coming from? How is it being transported around the country/world without anyone seeing it? And apparently trundled round invisibly at airports? I dunno. How did they wire the WTC without anyone noticing? Or maybe they did notice and were told they were seeing something else.


4) If it’s added to the fuel, what adverse effects does it have of the very expensive jet engines? Where and when was that determined? Jet fuel quality is VERY carefully monitored by labs all over the world (not just the US) so do you believe there is another conspiracy paying lab staff to keep quite?It is probably not added to the fuel of commercial airliners, at least not the soft metals. The other stuff, who knows. Jet engines are something like 30 percent efficient...


5) There are a number of deliberately misleading videos confusing chemtrails with chaff. Chaff is strips of metal or metallised plastic 0.5 to 1 wavelength long at radar wavelengths (an inch or two) for confusing/testing radar. If chemtrails exist, they will not be detected by radar. If you don’t believe that, then look up how radar works. What is chaff doing up there? Why is it all over the skies in criss cross patterns? Why does it disappear for weeks at a time and then come back every day with a vengeance?


6) More planes now produce more vapour trains. That’s why you see them now more than before.As I said in a different thread, I grew up in the middle of the flight patterns of JFK, Newark and LaGuardia, the skies above Queens during peak hours had just as much traffic then as they do today. I never saw ANYTHING when I was a kid that resembles the crap we see today. Contrails never lingered all day and then spread out into silky sheets of totally fake looking "clouds". The sky looks completely different and is a different color on a regular basis. I trust my eyes. The days of clear blue skies are virtually non existent.


7) Modern aircraft are more efficient and an effect of this is the vapour trails are more prominent in some atmospheric conditions. They can last hours – like clouds because that’s what they are.If jet engines are more efficient and cars are burning unleaded gas, we should have clearer skies, not constant gray haze and weird looking wispy "clouds" that block out the sun.


8) If tons of this stuff is being spayed into the atmosphere, it must float to ground, or break down into other detectable chemicals. How come all the air-quality measurements throughout the developed world have never detected any of this? Oh… yes… they are all government controlled so must keep quite. Well there are many hundreds of well-equipped amateur meteorologists who would soon know if this is actually happening.

And where would this data be published, in the MSM? :rofl:

Here ya go, and there's a lot more where this came from...

Air Force Scientist Says Chem Trails Are Real: She Has The Air And Soil Samples To Prove It

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/04/air-force-scientist-says-chem-trails-are-real-she-has-the-soil-samples-to-prove-it-2618750.html



Just because crap has been done in the past is not proof it is still happening. Proof means proof, not piles of unverifiable anecdotes and photos of the sky. Really…

NickYou must be kidding. When did the PTW turn over a new leaf? And if so, do you have any evidence? And what is the statute of limitations for evil? How long ago would be considered meaningless for today?

There was a time when people who believed in germs were considered nuts.

Sérénité
9th July 2013, 13:18
Good thread. Scary poll results so far…

I’ll put my two pence worth in, though doubt it’ll make any difference.

How about a little critical thinking applied to this subject to see if that throws any light on what’s most likely? Anyone who sees themselves surrounded by conspiracies isn’t capable of critical thinking, nevertheless let’s give it a try…

1) If chemtrailing is real, and done by commercial passenger jets, it must be done with the full knowledge of the pilots because they get calculations on passenger numbers, luggage, cargo (and it’s distribution in the hold) and of course fuel quantity and weight. You can’t smuggle on hundreds of gallons of anything without the pilot realising something is wrong well before take off.

2) Perhaps it’s done by military planes. They must have hundreds reserved for just this job by looking in the sky some days in southern UK. Where do they all take off and land from?

3) Where the hell are millions of gallons of this stuff being manufactured? Where are the raw materials coming from? How is it being transported around the country/world without anyone seeing it? And apparently trundled round invisibly at airports?

4) If it’s added to the fuel, what adverse effects does it have of the very expensive jet engines? Where and when was that determined? Jet fuel quality is VERY carefully monitored by labs all over the world (not just the US) so do you believe there is another conspiracy paying lab staff to keep quite?

5) There are a number of deliberately misleading videos confusing chemtrails with chaff. Chaff is strips of metal or metallised plastic 0.5 to 1 wavelength long at radar wavelengths (an inch or two) for confusing/testing radar. If chemtrails exist, they will not be detected by radar. If you don’t believe that, then look up how radar works.

6) More planes now produce more vapour trains. That’s why you see them now more than before.

7) Modern aircraft are more efficient and an effect of this is the vapour trails are more prominent in some atmospheric conditions. They can last hours – like clouds because that’s what they are.

8) If tons of this stuff is being spayed into the atmosphere, it must float to ground, or break down into other detectable chemicals. How come all the air-quality measurements throughout the developed world have never detected any of this? Oh… yes… they are all government controlled so must keep quite. Well there are many hundreds of well-equipped amateur meteorologists who would soon know if this is actually happening.

9) How about asking a meteorologist (a real one, not a ‘wheel-on’ TV one please) and ask if this is a) possible and b) effective. (Spaying for weather modification is sometimes done – that’s well known. Were talking about mass daily spraying over continents in this thread.)

10) Ask a pilot the same questions.

11) I heard that a pilot had been beaten up by some morons who thought he and his type are responsible. This is insane nonsense.

12) Where’s the proof? Let’s have a sample of the stuff with an explanation of where it was made, from what, and how it’s used.

You see, just far too may holes that need filling. And I don’t see any point the posting of more websites or videos unless they specifically answer at least some of the above questions.

Just because crap has been done in the past is not proof it is still happening. Proof means proof, not piles of unverifiable anecdotes and photos of the sky. Really…

Nick

Hi Nick

Have you watched the video that Wind has posted above, with Kristen Meghan speaking as a whistleblower. She details very clearly, among other points, that during her time on military airforce bases they checked in vast amounts of carcinogenic and metalloid substances, for no apparent other use.

Its a good place to start if you are willing to admit that actually yes, there is a lot of genuine and valid evidence to prove chemtrails are real and are happening. You just have to give the benefit of the doubt and give it a little of your time. There is evidence from genuine and reputable whistleblowers. There is evidence from samples taken from locations that are off the beaten track which have readings of nasties that are anything from 10 to 100 times higher than they should be.

You're so correct that proof does mean proof, except sometimes we have to seek it rather than dismiss it.

wolf_rt
9th July 2013, 13:19
Very high probability:

1. We can safely assume that passenger airlines are not involved in chemtrails in any way.

2. The artificial clouds created by the massive amount of jet contrails does indeed have a weather modification effect. (see post 9/11 when US air travel was stopped for a few days.)

3. Spraying of the atmosphere for the purposes of weather modification has been officially admitted (right?)

4. Elements of the power structure does want a large proportion of the population dead, and are apparently not above poisoning the environment to do it (Depleted Uranium, G.M.O.)
These people would not be above spraying the public if it suited them.


Likley:

1. I suspect that modern turbofan jet engines leave contrails that disperse more widely than the equivalent contrail from an old 737 with turbojet engines.

2. It seems likely that the shadow government has sprayed some nasty stuff around from time to time.

3. There seems to be some evidence that barium and aluminum have been sprayed fairly widely.

4. There is some evidence that nastier things are sprayed also. (morgellons, heavy chemtrail health effects.)

5. The shadow government has the capacity to spray fairly widely in secret, but not to the extent that some youtube hype would suggest.


Questions:

1. How much barium / aluminium / whatever would be required to contaminate the ground as described?

2. Could we be f@#&^%g ourselves twice here? the shadow government seems to be able to get up to a fair bit in secret.... why not this.

3. It has always seemed likely to me that IF you were going to make a concerted effort to spray the skies with something, you would use some fancy nano/monoatomic compound, to achieve your nefarious plans. Not aluminium...

Sunny-side-up
9th July 2013, 14:20
Sorry about this big reply Fred:
They are real for sure, i've watched them criss cross the sky and so blanket the out the sun grr, full of crap being laid out like some gaint sky blotter!

Just look at the 2 vids in the posts below as first posted by onawah.This vid
US Air Force Academy Chemtrail Manual lol and the vid with Ex-Military Bio-Environmental Engineer | Kristen Meghan is first hand knowladge of chemtrailing as shown below


Great link BTW Eram http://www.flightradar24.com/ thanks, watching Air Movement right now lol
A Post by onawah

Re: Up At The Ranch And Beyond

US Air Force Academy Chemtrail Manual
The word "chemtrails" was not
invented by a conspiracy theorist,
it was invented by the US Air Force.


Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEr_o_rjuaQ


A microfiche has been found in the
Oklahoma Library system of an Air
Force manual dating back to 1990,
which uses the word "Chemtrails" in
its title and describes the various
experiments pilots will be conducting
with the aerosol release of various
noxious substances, some relating to
cloud-seeding and weather modification
such as silver iodide and others, in
conjunction with the HAARP project,
such as barium-fluoride.

The spraying of toxic barium salts in
the atmosphere relates to scalar
weapons systems (HAARP), which
behave like targeted gravitational
fields and act as anti-ballistic shields.

Click the link below for a more
comprehensive list of toxic chemicals
that have been released by the USAF
since at least 1990

http://www.ForbiddenKnowledgeTV.com/page/22957.html


Ex-Military Bio-Environmental Engineer | Kristen Meghan | Blows Whistle On Air Force | Chemtrails
This may have been posted already.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAxXyMAmBMs

http://www.forbiddenknowledgetv.com/...hemtrails.html
"Rise Up, Do Your Due Diligence, Do Your
Own Investigations and Support Your Military
by Educating Them"

TruckersForTruthcom
April 9, 2013

At the 2013 Atlanta Music Liberty Fest, Kristen Meghan, former Air Force Bio-Environmental Engineer gave a ground breaking presentation of what she had discovered about Chemtrails while serving her Country.

This BRAVE young lady has put her livelihood/life on the line for US Please take a minute to thank her and help US by redistributing this video and any other VALID information about Chemtrails to as many people as you can!

This is a GLOBAL issue, other countries must get this information as well. "They" are spraying the majority of the population...Why?

===

Chemtrails: Frightening Lesser-Known Facts
April 2013
By David Richards


Human Pesticide?

�In the last ten years, respiratory disease in the US has moved from 8th to 3rd highest cause of death. Asthma rates have more than doubled in the western world and Alzheimer�s� disease, a condition that is caused by aluminum poisoning, has also skyrocketed. �

If we don�t organize to stop this scourge, we deserve what we get.

There has been an increasing awareness of chemtrails in recent years. Protests have been organized, movies have been released and whistle blowers have come forward. Most significantly, former Los Angeles FBI chief Ted Gunderson made a video denouncing chemtrails shortly before his death in 2011.

The heavy spraying began in NATO countries in the late 90s, but today chemtrails are being recorded pretty much everywhere, from Russia to Brazil, South Korea to Cuba. This is a program of extraordinary scope and importance. However, while we know a chemtrail program exists, there is very little hard information on how it functions and what its goals are.

I have been researching chemtrails and, while I don�t yet have the full picture, I present this information will plug a few holes.

� Most politicians are as oblivious as we are. AC Griffin, a former CIA and NSA operative, says: �The monies that go into CIA projects don�t necessarily come from congressional appropriations. The congress as a whole is completely oblivious to the aerosol program. They are afraid to ask.�

People on the inside who oppose the program are punished. �One of the key people who designed the aerosol is now sitting in federal penitentiary. They still go to him to ask him questions.�

Griffin also revealed that former Clinton era Navy Chief of Naval Operations, Jeremy Boorda, left, was murdered because he opposed the program. Boorda was found dead in 1996 with three shotgun wounds in his chest. The authorities were quick to claim he committed suicide, and the autopsy results were never released to the public.

� Commercial airliners are involved in spraying. In the very beginning, the aerosols were sprayed solely by military planes, but now the program has been expanded and commercial airliners have been outfitted with aerosol units controlled by computers and satellites. Photos provide evidence of this, like this Lufthansa jet flying over the US (below,left).

In the airline industry, the operation is known as Project Cloverfield. In 2000, a high level executive at an American airline revealed his office was visited by two men from an unnamed government agency:

They told us that the government was going to pay our airline, along with others, to release special chemicals from commercial aircraft. When asked what the chemicals were and why we were going to spray them, they told us that information was given on a need-to-know basis and we weren�t cleared for it�We were made to sign non-disclosure forms that basically stated that we would go to prison if we told anyone what we knew.�

Delivery by commercial aircraft raises the possibility that many countries have not given consent to being sprayed, and may be unaware it�s even happening.

� Weather manipulation is a daily occurrence � Chemtrails are used in conjunction with HAARP for geo-engineering (the technical term for weather control). Much is written about the ability to create disasters like earthquakes and tsunamis against an enemy, but we don�t realize that weather patterns are manipulated all the time. Scott Stevens was a TV weatherman in the US but quit his job upon realizing that this was happening on a nigh daily basis.

GAMBLING ON FOOD: �WEATHER DERIVATIVES�

Global warming is the cover story for the increasingly severe and bizarre weather worldwide.

� Geo-engineering is used to force GMO crops on the world. Manufactured floods and droughts damage harvests and put farmers out of business.

Monsanto has the patent for GMO seeds that are drought and flood resistant, as well as resistant to the poisonous effects of aluminum, one of the key metals in chemtrails. Any farmer who refuses to grow GMO crops will not be able to guarantee a good harvest and will go out of business. Even worse, Monsanto�s end game is to force what are termed �Terminator� seeds on farmers worldwide. These crops don�t produce seeds, meaning the farmer has to buy new seeds from Monsanto every planting season!

� Weather Derivatives are chemtrail insurance. � You may wonder how the big players protect their interests from weather warfare. Say, how does George Soros, who owns thousands of acres of farmland in America, protect his profits from engineered drought?

Companies use financial instruments to hedge against risk of adverse weather conditions. They first appeared in the late-nineties, the same time the heavy spraying started! Michael Agne, a trader at the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, explains how they work:

�You�re betting there�s going to be a weather disaster within a particular time-frame, at a particular location, and when it does happen there�s going to be a big pay-off.� Obviously, insiders can make big bucks making bets based on the geo-engineering timetable.

CREATING A SICKLY DEPENDENT POPULATION

� Chemtrails are a �soft kill� operation � Soft kill attacks primarily aim to disable and weaken the enemy, not kill him. As Dr. Len Horowitz has explained, wars are an inefficient way to lower population numbers because they destroy infrastructure. The preferable scenario is to create a sick population dependent on the military-medical-industrial complex for their health. In this way, you have population control, make vast fortunes doing it and keep the infrastructure intact.

Chemtrails are a multi-pronged attack.

Firstly, the metallic salts used in the aerosols are highly toxic and require our bodies to waste tremendous amounts of energy removing them. Millions of people cannot do it. In the last ten years, respiratory disease in the US has moved from 8th to 3rd highest cause of death. Asthma rates have more than doubled in the western world and Alzheimer�s� disease, a condition that is caused by aluminum poisoning, has also skyrocketed.

The second thing is the release of diseases. A high placed military insider claims that bacteria and viruses are freeze-dried and placed on fine filaments for release. The metals released along with the diseases heat up from the sun, creating a perfect environment for the bacteria and viruses to thrive in the air supply.

Third, chemtrails contain nano technological weapons. Surprisingly, this fact has remained so low-key in the alternative media. It is well proven by researchers like Dr. Hildegarde Staninger and former government scientist Clifford Carnicom.

The nanotech consists of genetically modified organisms that are basically bio-robots. When we inhale them, they take up residence in our bodies and live as parasites. When the infestation becomes advanced, the individual develops what is termed Morgellons disease. He is so weak that he can barely do anything and suffers an array of bizarre and ghastly symptoms: scabs that don�t heal, hair that falls out and is replaced by pseudo hair and unceasing crawling sensations beneath the skin.

Morgellons is a new condition that has appeared in the last decade - the same time the heavy spraying kicked in! There are an estimated 60,000+ sufferers in the US alone, and their symptoms are chronicled by the Morgellons Research Foundation.
BIO WARFARE

There is evidence that the nanotechnology in the aerosols creates genetically modified red blood cells. Clifford Carnicom has found these cells in the atmosphere and in the blood samples of most people he tests. They are quite unlike normal red blood cells; they can grow outside of the body in a petri dish, survive high temperatures and withstand being doused in acid. Clearly, this is highly sophisticated bio warfare!

We don't know for sure what purpose they serve, but the answer may have been provided by Ray Kurtwell, one of the biggest names in the transhumanism movement. In a recent speech he said: 'In the next 25 years we will have bloodcell -sized devices that go inside your body and keep you healthy from inside, that go in your brain and interact with your biological neurons and merge with our biological intelligence.'

When an establishment scientist tells us with certainty that something will exist, assume that it already does. There is a chance that the 'blood-cell sized devices' that Kurtwell mentioned are the weaponized red blood cells being discovered, and that mind alteration is currently underway.

� How do the perpetrators protect themselves? The Illuminati never launch an attack without making sure they're protected first. For instance, President Bush took an anthrax vaccine two weeks before the anthrax attacks in 2001. They may drink a solution once a day that removes the toxins from their bloodstream, or have a chip put in their arm that acts like a tiny dialysis machine.

Many involved in the operation probably don't know the true agenda. Dr. Bill Deagle was a doctor at Buckley air force base and claims to have treated the pilots who were spraying the aerosols, '95% of them told me they were up there spraying to reflect the sun to stop global warming, so most of them are dumb enough to believe that garbage.'
CONCLUSION

The Illuminati are vandalizing the skies, as visibly as a graffiti artist spraying a wall, and yet most of us remain oblivious. Like little else, chemtrails bring home just how desperate our predicament is.

Despite this, I think anti-chemtrail activism has tremendous potential. The existence of the operation is easy to prove and we have the testimony of many whistle blowers. The protest movement can continue to generate momentum because chemtrails will persist for decades to come.

---

David Richards, 24, teaches English in Mongolia. He is a regular contributor.
---

Makow Comment- Citizens should form committees in every city to monitor and photograph chemtrail activity; educate the public and spread awareness; and to petition politicians and media. The Illuminati positively hate spontaneous political activity they don't initiate and control. This is a great way to increase consciousness about the NWO conspiracy.

First Comment from A:

I took this photo myself after I became aware the chemtrails problem was real. Hats off to David Richard for his fine essay for Henry Makow, Chemtrails: Frightening Lesser-Known Facts. It is one of the best I've read. But even three years ago I would have dismissed it as BULL****.

I offer this ~~ my sad chemtrails mea culpa. I didn't wake-up to the issue until last spring when a friend brought me Michael Murphy & Paul Wittenberger's video documentary WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE THEY SPRAYING. My friend knew I was hoarse and suffering asthma and finally receptive to his arguments, but even the video didn't convince me. What convinced me was leaving the USA and traveling to the Middle East last July and magically having my problems disappear. Also a close friend nearly died of asthma and COPD last spring. These three events finally grabbed my attention and I became a firm believer in the chemtrails problems.

So don't get TOO upset if your friends don't immediately see and understand the chemtrails problem. It is almost too mind-boggling to believe. It takes even a truly smart person a while to come around. Not being so bright, it took me longer.

Second Comment from Annette-

Henry, as regards the article on Chemtrails this morning , I think everyone should watch this video. It's even more horrific than anyone could guess. This video is rather plodding at first for those that are already well aware of the chemtrails , but the speaker does a great job building her case to the final conclusion; she demonstrates that this can be nothing other than a demonic attempt to control every single living thing on the planet.

http://www.riseearth.com/2013/04/che...nown.html#more

update: I see Dennis posted this in mid April at:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...istin-Edwards-
But it's probably worthy of mention on any in depth thread on chemtrails.

Nick Matkin
9th July 2013, 14:42
2) Perhaps it’s done by military planes. They must have hundreds reserved for just this job by looking in the sky some days in southern UK. Where do they all take off and land from?

Sure, why not? Do you have access to the data for how many military planes take off and land every day? How long did it take the US Govt to put up thousands of drones?

I live in densely populated Western Europe. There simply aren't many places you can hide a military airbase from which to do this. Yes, they could be coming from further afield in which case why don't they just do it there? If it's in the atmosphere it'll get everywhere in a week or two.

Seems there are more trails over densely populated areas. A bit obvious isn't it? Like I said, why not do it in secret over the mid oceans? Or perhaps it's because it IS coming from commercial aircraft at airports located in populated areas and it is just… er… condensation trails...?


3) Where the hell are millions of gallons of this stuff being manufactured? Where are the raw materials coming from? How is it being transported around the country/world without anyone seeing it? And apparently trundled round invisibly at airports?

I dunno. How did they wire the WTC without anyone noticing? Or maybe they did notice and were told they were seeing something else.

I'm not convinced anybody wired anything at the WTC, so no one saw anything, but that's another conspiracy for another thread.

5) There are a number of deliberately misleading videos confusing chemtrails with chaff. Chaff is strips of metal or metallised plastic 0.5 to 1 wavelength long at radar wavelengths (an inch or two) for confusing/testing radar. If chemtrails exist, they will not be detected by radar. If you don’t believe that, then look up how radar works.

What is chaff doing up there? Why is it all over the skies in criss cross patterns? Why does it disappear for weeks at a time and then come back every day with a vengeance?

Chaff isn't up there very often. Like I said, it's for confusing military radar either during war, or testing new types/modifications to radar. It falls to the ground so you can pick it up if you found some. Not dangerous, although you wouldn't want farm animals eating it any more than you'd like them eating sweets packets.

7) Modern aircraft are more efficient and an effect of this is the vapour trails are more prominent in some atmospheric conditions. They can last hours – like clouds because that’s what they are.

If jet engines are more efficient and cars are burning unleaded gas, we should have clearer skies, not constant gray haze and weird looking wispy "clouds" that block out the sun.

It's NOT SMOKE. It's water vapour, CO2 and other products of burning hydrocarbons.

Anyway, how effective is this project at: 1) modifying the climate for whatever reason; 2) poising people? 3) Dumbing them down?

The first two I'd say weren’t doing too well. OK, if for one moment I agreed it was weather modification, it would be hard to tell if it was doing anything. As for reducing the population, with over 7 billion people and growing I'd say it was a catastrophic failure. But for the appetite for crap TV viewing and “sheeple power”, I’ll admit it might be doing very well…

Come-on... any pilots, atmospheric physicist, meteorologists out there – do you want to pitch in? No? No... They just don't bother; they know they'd be wasting their time with the "don't-confuse-me-with-the-facts-my-mind's-made-up brigade". We NEED people who are qualified in their field on here. We already have enough of the "I-believe-it-cos-it-fits-in-with-my-conspiratorial-world-view" members. (OK, yes, I’m probably one of those too – just leave out “conspiratorial”!)

Anyway, it's still good to have a lively, polite debate, as proposed in the OP.

Nick

Another1
9th July 2013, 16:08
The flippin guberment/corporations own the patents on most all of the concepts the debaters say are not real?
The United States Air Force boasts they will own the weather (and the internet too eventually)
'They' can bloody well hide anything they want to and history (that they let us know about) proves this out.
... this is like that movie Groundhog Day
... never forward hunting for solutions
The same circle over and over again.
If anyone ever sees a discussion on chemtrails out here some place where they have moved forward from this debate, please PM me with a link.

william r sanford72
9th July 2013, 16:11
there will come a time when we will no longer be able to trust what our eyes see or mind percieves..what we hear..see and think.in order to know a truth it must or will have to first go through the soul heart spirit...then to mind eyes and ears.that time i feel is now arrived.my knacks my soul...with no data or proof...tell me its real.chem trails.cool thread.good job fred.

Tesseract
9th July 2013, 16:17
Some barium compounds, such as barium carbonate, barium chloride, and barium hydroxide, are used to make ceramics, insect and rat poisons, and additives for oils and fuels; in the treatment of boiler water; in the production of barium greases; as a component in sealants, paper manufacturing, and sugar refining; in animal and vegetable oil refining; and in the protection of objects made of limestone from deterioration

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp24.pdf

I did some hunting on this - barium was used as a diesel additive at trace levels, 10s to 100s of parts per million as far as I can tell. It's worth pointing out that just about every element in the periodic table has been trialed as a fuel additive. That kind of screen testing was how tetraethyllead was discovered to prevent engine knocking. Generally speaking when you make a solution to below 1000 ppm, and especially below 100 ppm, you can often achieve solubility even in what would normally be considered an anti-solvent. Anyway, at these levels the barium concentration is about the same, or less, than the trace barium that is present in the dirt you grow your vegetables in (some vegetables will concentrate it further into their edible portions). That said, I would be holding my breath if I knew the truck in front of me had extra barium in the fuel :)

It does look like barium was tried in jet fuel too but it only served to foul up the engine as one would expect.

genevieve
9th July 2013, 16:58
I live at the Oregon coast. One tiny airport nearby. Not on a commercial flight path.
Not much plane activity.

Lots of "contrails."

Give me a break.


Peace Love Joy & Harmony,
Genevieve

WhiteFeather
12th July 2013, 03:06
Raf, I have not observed commercial airlines showing any signs of leaving chemtrail plumes. Its the other ones which are owned and operated by the pirates whom hijacked our global governments. The pirates are spraying with their own pirate spray planes. Some say Evergreen Airlines are involved as well. Evergreen Airlines could possibly be operated by an extension of Haliburton or some 3 letter alphabet agency. And surely NSA comes to mind as well.

Thanks for participating in this brainstorm session, my friend.

So, in your opinion, they are using dedicated chemtrail airplanes indeed.

This leaves us with a few remaining questions to be answered:

-How many dedicated chemtrail dispersion airplanes would be necessary to cover all the US, in order to legitimate all these sightings, which are reported by the hundreds, daily, from all parts of the country?

-From where all those dedicated airplanes take off? Where do they land? Where do they stop to refuel and refill the chemical tanks? Where they are stored and maintained? Would it be possible to conduct such a huge operation while retaining its secrecy?

My opinion still is that, even a very consolidated and logistically sound chemtrail operation, would not be able to cover even five percent of the huge number of daily reported chemtrail occurrences, which leads me to believe that at least 90% of chemtrail reports are simple condensation trails.

Cheers,

Raf.

Because they target most of the more populated areas. It really could be that simple. Especially if they are flying remote controlled drones. The governments im sure have a huge surplus of planes to do the job. Given the fact that we have 1 thousand military bases throughout the world. What a wonderful military complex we have dont we.

Rocky_Shorz
12th July 2013, 03:15
chemtrails are a fact, they switched the cocktail to stop the anti matter bursts killing birds and fish, but now the affects from the new batch are affecting health, appendicitis attacks are up almost 3000% this year and it's hitting the healthy, joggers, runners, marathon and triathletes...

anyone exerting themselves in the dirty air are being affected...

WhiteFeather
12th July 2013, 03:20
The chemicals that are being sprayed are not in the fuel system. Its in the tanks conveniently stored in the fuseloge. Photos Enclosed.

http://www.sovereignindependentuk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/chemtrail_plane.jpg

http://multipolarfuture.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/1162022010-20120720-210703.jpg

Sorry no passenger seats onboard this chem jet. Just some kegs of barium. Nothing to see here. Move on you conspiracy nuts.


http://multipolarfuture.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/wv4ee446d0.jpg

Rocky_Shorz
12th July 2013, 04:10
Some barium compounds, such as barium carbonate, barium chloride, and barium hydroxide, are used to make ceramics, insect and rat poisons, and additives for oils and fuels; in the treatment of boiler water; in the production of barium greases; as a component in sealants, paper manufacturing, and sugar refining; in animal and vegetable oil refining; and in the protection of objects made of limestone from deterioration

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp24.pdf

add Thorium to the mixture, surround it by the energy in a Thunderhead, and it creates anti matter burst that launch into space, below it is seen as a punch hole cloud, and the energy wipes out birds by the thousands, fish by the millions... Cattle by the heard...

what would happen if it was over a major metropolis...

people...

We at Avalon raised the alarms when we put the pieces together and they changed the mixture...

indigopete
12th July 2013, 09:18
I grew up in the middle of the flight patterns of JFK, Newark and LaGuardia, the skies above Queens during peak hours had just as much traffic then as they do today. I never saw ANYTHING when I was a kid that resembles the crap we see today. Contrails never lingered all day and then spread out into silky sheets of totally fake looking "clouds"

This is the kind of remark that basically demonstrated how superficial the whole chemtrail debate is.

Although you never saw anything when you were a kid, you never ** looked **. Because if you had you'd have seen contrails the lingered and "spread out into silky sheets of totally fake looking clouds". I was looking (in the seventees) and I saw them

Sure, there weren't as many of them as there are today, but (as I've said before) a contrail IS a cloud. They are also thicker today because engines are huge - in the seventees most long range airliners had 4 low bypass engines, so 4 'thin' contrails.

These days they only have 2 (massive) engines - so 2 'thick' contrails. If you remember from school, the cross sectional area of a circle is proportional to the square of the radius, so that means todays contrails have potentially 4 times the cross sectional area of those of 30 years ago.

Anyway, its beside the point. It simply isn't true that contrails don't linger and form cloud sheets. They do and they should be expected to.

mahalall
12th July 2013, 09:58
Indecisive as to ticking the yes or no on the existence of chemtrails. Decision based upon the analysing the data from the met office.

The Met Office (originally an abbreviation for Meteorological Office, but now the official name in itself), is the United Kingdom's national weather service, and a trading fund of the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. Part of the Met Office headquarters at Exeter in Devon is the Met Office College, which handles the training for internal personnel and many forecasters from around the world.

Love this interview,
"solar management systems...of deliberately squirting sulphur dioxide in the atsmosphere...to counterbalance global warming...a complex an emotive subject...but we only analyse the data IF they were to be deployed (haha)

elC5wZ1OJPo

Nick Matkin
12th July 2013, 11:23
chemtrails are a fact, they switched the cocktail to stop the anti matter bursts killing birds and fish, but now the affects from the new batch are affecting health, appendicitis attacks are up almost 3000% this year and it's hitting the healthy, joggers, runners, marathon and triathletes...

anyone exerting themselves in the dirty air are being affected...


Yep, they guy down the pub says the hospitals are on the point of collapse all over southern England due to the tens of thousands of chemtrail-induced appendicitis cases. The media aren't saying a word. The National Health Service has resorted to installing make-shift operating theatres at the back of the local bus station in donated garden sheds! I don't know anyone who hasn't had appendicitis in the last fortnight - terrifying. My turn will surely come...

As for joggers and athletes, I've seen five or six round here resorting to using full aqua-lung kits so they don't have to breathe the air. And now it's getting to about 28C (84F), so lugging that lot round while jogging must be truly exhausting, such dedication. (Did you know the air tanks weigh nearly as much when empty as when full?)

I'm just gonna stay indoors, eat pies and read about how the "White Hats" have replaced the Queen's real dogs with experimental radio-controlled-robo-spy dogs that report what she and her the evil illuminati chums are cooking up for us next. Apparently the data collection is going well; it's already been confirmed that nearly 60 per cent of the world's politicians are actually human, but are all corrupt and dangerously incompetent. But I think we knew that already!

Nick

wolf_rt
12th July 2013, 11:25
http://www.sovereignindependentuk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/chemtrail_plane.jpg
http://multipolarfuture.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/1162022010-20120720-210703.jpg


These barrels appear to be ballast used in testing the plane, as discussed in a previous thread i believe...


http://multipolarfuture.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/wv4ee446d0.jpg

This certainly does appear to be some sort of spray rig... But the fact that large spraying planes exist is not in question.

Prodigal Son
12th July 2013, 11:35
This is the kind of remark that basically demonstrated how superficial the whole chemtrail debate is.

Although you never saw anything when you were a kid, you never ** looked **. Because if you had you'd have seen contrails the lingered and "spread out into silky sheets of totally fake looking clouds". I was looking (in the seventees) and I saw them



I was obsessed with the sky, so don't tell me I never **looked**.

Why is it that you always seem to fall on the side of the fence that agrees with the official **BS** from the Gubmint?

Edit: Can you explain to me why the skies over Nassau County Long Island were filled with "contrails" on an ongoing basis and suddenly disappeared completely for six weeks in August and September last year before returning with a vengeance? Thanks in advance.

Another1
12th July 2013, 12:20
I was obsessed with the sky, so don't tell me I never **looked**.

Am in the same camp. I think snowbanks were my favorite chairs for sky watching and fascination with anything that can fly set in as far back as my memories reach. The latter part caused trouble during debates over 911 also because there are some things I just know about airplanes that make the official story nonsense to me, but I can't document or put a pedigree label on the knowing.

In southern OK here I have observed as few as 2 planes spend a morning creating the cross hatch pattern in sky and by late afternoon the entire sky is milky white. This is same story being told around the world and anyone can come here and see it for themself. We can go weeks, even months with the kind of beautiful blues skies you see in old picture books then wala, the planes are back.

What they're doing or why is still up for debate in my mind.

meeradas
15th July 2013, 06:50
Just to 'round this up':
In 20+ years of sky-photographing [analog - on Ektachrome film, using first Pentax, later, Nikon 'hardware'],
i wasn't able to catch one single persistent trail on film.
Until the summer of '91, when i shot the first of my 'trail pics' [can still remember how i "hated those stripes" that ruined my pinatubo sunset];
it was still an uncommon sight then, and i haven't ever "got used to" it.

Cidersomerset
15th July 2013, 10:42
Observation........

Since this thread has started we have had beautiful hot sunny
weather with clear blue skies and planes overhead as we are
on the main flight path from Bristol airport and others.
Every jet having a contrail lasting a couple mins.

This morning started clear blue and during the last few hours
there are long lasting trails everywhere turning the sky a milky
white. The ground temp has been similar all week.

So either the air temperature above where the planes fly
has changed, and there are suddenly a lot more planes
flying today.

Or they are spraying something, topping up the atmosphere
with a UV shield or what ever ?

But it does seem very suspicious/coincidental..LOL...

Cidersomerset
15th July 2013, 18:21
Update on previous post, the sky has still got the milky , cloudy screen set
up from this morning. Its been hot all day and still is like last week
when the sky has been blue from dawn to dusk.

It does look like a screen to me !


The cloud has been forecast for today and tomorrow.
Either to cover the spraying, Or they are clouds, but
they have not moved all day just hung there in a haze
from where they formed from the trails this morning.

http://www.weathercity.com/uk/gb/bridgwater/

Tesla_WTC_Solution
15th July 2013, 21:55
Fred! How did I miss this thread?

Have you researched the "Sulfate Aerosol GeoEngineering Program" covered by Alex Jones' reporters?
Apparently it's not just a gov't program. It's backed by well-known American philanthropists. And I use the word "American" in its loosest sense when I say that.

I think if chemtrails were 100% gov't backed, it would be public knowledge.
Some Nazi somewhere in the system is holding back a lot of key information.
Someone who believes with his whole heart that there are too many "useless eaters".
Someone whose own father headed an organization once dedicated to eradicating Negroes.

You know exactly who I mean. I am just sick of saying his traitor's name. LOL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratospheric_sulfate_aerosols_(geoengineering)

http://paq.press.illinois.edu/25/3/svoboda.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jul/17/us-geoengineers-spray-sun-balloon

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Environment/Pix/columnists/2011/8/31/1314801635995/Geoengineering--a-rainbow-008.jpg

I noticed these illicit experiments happening over Seattle Wa and started researching. It's amazing how information wants to just jump into our hands, so few people care anymore.


David Keith, one of the investigators, has argued that solar geoengineering could be an inexpensive method to slow down global warming, but other scientists warn that it could have unpredictable, disastrous consequences for the Earth's weather systems and food supplies. Environmental groups fear that the push to make geoengineering a "plan B" for climate change will undermine efforts to reduce carbon emissions.

Keith, who manages a multimillion dollar geoengineering research fund provided by Microsoft founder Bill Gates, previously commissioned a study by a US aerospace company that made the case for the feasibility of large-scale deployment of solar geoengineering technologies.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/geo-engineering-killing-off-the-useless-eaters.html


Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Friday, September 17, 2010
Global warming loons are at it again – despite the science behind man-made climate change being completely discredited by the Climategate fiasco and with increasing numbers of Americans skeptical about AGW, mad scientists at the Carnegie Institution are using taxpayer money to lay the groundwork for injecting the atmosphere with dangerous compounds which are known to cause debilitating health problems and could lead to massive droughts and famines.
Alarmists are once again trying to play God in a bid to solve an imaginary climate crisis based around their own fraudulent belief system, fully aware of the fact that the consequences of their actions will likely kill off millions in the third world, people who they see as nothing more than “useless eaters”.


The health effects of bombarding the skies with sulphur dioxide alone are enough to mothball taxpayer funded research into the idea.
The following health effects are linked with exposure to sulphur.
- Neurological effects and behavioral changes
- Disturbance of blood circulation
- Heart damage
- Effects on eyes and eyesight
- Reproductive failure
- Damage to immune systems
- Stomach and gastrointestinal disorder
- Damage to liver and kidney functions
- Hearing defects
- Disturbance of the hormonal metabolism
- Dermatological effects
- Suffocation and lung embolism

nomadguy
16th July 2013, 05:26
Sorry no passenger seats onboard this chem jet. Just some kegs of barium. Nothing to see here. Move on you conspiracy nuts.

Or perhaps it is,
> BaTiO3 (Barium Titanate)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/BaTiO3_oxygen_coordination.png

Search it > https://startpage.com/do/search
Or better yet search for
BAtio3, nano...

Richard S.
16th July 2013, 19:46
Reply to Merradas:

Experience, lovely...

pine boy
17th July 2013, 01:47
watch...
a2x6TEeknfo

wolf_rt
17th July 2013, 09:52
It occurs to me while watching the above video that the way the earth responds to the current 'methane spiral' is, as it always has been, by an sudden ice age after all the ice has melted.

Perhaps the Geoengineering is trying to kill two birds with one stone, on the way to fully realising the agenda 21 plans.

Firstly you avoid an ice age that would throw a wrench in your plans.
Secondly you reduce life expectancy to 40 by poisoning the atmosphere and ground with barium and aluminium. Which together with cell phones induce brain cancer and alzheimer's disease .
You destroy fertility rates with the same tactic.

People stop breeding, people become old, only way to safely reproduce is in a lab.
Those who reject the system are left to eke a living from the poisoned land, with low iq and possible deformities, aka, Brave New World.

Perhaps the old people will be the zombies?

Anyway, it seems we need to stop geoengineering, not because it is causing an ice age, but because it is stopping it.

pine boy
17th July 2013, 10:13
Right on wolf.Don't forget the tainted food.
Its going to be a bitter sweet day when all the people in the world wake up to the atrocities preformed by our "leaders".I think it's coming soon.

Phoenix1304
17th July 2013, 11:17
Thanks for this important thread. I have to daily calm myself over this outrageous assault on our air and it can't get enough coverage as far as I'm concerned. The chemtrails where I live in UK have been obscene during this current heatwave and it makes me sick at heart, even if I could swallow the official explanation that it's done with the best intention to counteract global warming, the solution isn't global poisoning. Here's is a vid. with neurosurgeon Dr. Russell Blaylock that provides some helpful suggestions regarding countering aluminium overload and excellent website aircrap.org., if you're still think chemtrails are a new age myth after that, I'd be surprised.

X3lW-TGGlk0

Meanwhile, I suggest (as per Inelia's current experiment) spending at least an hour a day in joylightlove and letting the negatives float away...

wolf_rt
18th July 2013, 04:47
I come from an aviation background, and it seems extremely unlikely that airliners worldwide would be fitted with tanks that would allow for a large amount of material to be sprayed.

Aircraft maintenance engineers are regular people like you and me. they would certainly notice large tanks were installed and regularly filled. They would also notice any automated system that included nozzles ect.

Pilots aren't the most tight lipped bunch generally... If they were 'pushing the button' on this we would have heard about it by now.

With the quantities of aluminium that are being detected on the ground, it seems like a large scale delivery system would be called for, something that would be the sole payload of the plane, like the 3rd picture Whitefeather posted.

Fred Steeves
18th July 2013, 10:16
I've never been able to hear the sound of a jet leaving a chemtrail. It's been an idle curiosity for me for some time now, and I just realized this thread would be a good place to see if anyone else has noticed that.

naste.de.lumina
20th July 2013, 14:14
In this video, apparently several bright orbs act to eliminate the traces of chemtrails.

wxL_B7zDm_Y

sdv
21st July 2013, 11:06
Here is an article written by Steve Watson (from Infowars, so it is biased, but I am sure all the information in this article can be verified, because what Watson presents in this article is verifiable evidence and not conspiracy theories) that summarises information about geo-engineering research and programmes: http://www.globalresearch.ca/cia-is-funding-government-led-chemtrailing-project-spy-agency-to-help-study-security-impacts-of-geo-engineering/5343414

Personally, I think geo-engineering is a crazy idea. How can depriving the Northern hemisphere of sunlight be a good thing to do in any way?

Also interesting to see the people behind these programmes (Bill Gates, the CIA ...) - it all has a very fishy smell to it!

xthesurge0nx
22nd July 2013, 13:13
Former Chief Agent in charge FBI - Ted Gunderson - United Nations is committing MURDER - (Real)

kIo_7Ewzmqg

Retired Neurosurgeon and Author Dr Russell Blaylock MD - Chemtrails - Human Depopulation - 2013

1-VWnbE_jfw

Retired USDA Biologist Francis Mangels - Geoengineering Interview by John Whyte

Z6PhTBGAy1c

Air Force Chemtrail Whistleblower Exposes Geoengineering

a2Ni_iNcPAU

Chemtrails Science Cover-Up Explained by Aerospace Engineer BelfortGroup ChemTruthers Conference

WKyOhURHXqc

US Army Sprayed Citizens with Radioactive Particles - historic abuse - Chemtrails

VTzDTD4vyGU

UK Government admitted they sprayed UK public with bacteria in the 60s & 70s - BBC News Report

hYroInjNjrE

Jake
24th July 2013, 14:07
I just found this vid. I don't know if it has been posted. Phone conversation with Douglas E. Rowland from NASA Goddard, admitting to , and explaining Chemtrails.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z2iRormxkw

Rocky_Shorz
26th July 2013, 02:57
chemtrails are a fact, they switched the cocktail to stop the anti matter bursts killing birds and fish, but now the affects from the new batch are affecting health, appendicitis attacks are up almost 3000% this year and it's hitting the healthy, joggers, runners, marathon and triathletes...

anyone exerting themselves in the dirty air are being affected...


Yep, they guy down the pub says the hospitals are on the point of collapse all over southern England due to the tens of thousands of chemtrail-induced appendicitis cases. The media aren't saying a word. The National Health Service has resorted to installing make-shift operating theatres at the back of the local bus station in donated garden sheds! I don't know anyone who hasn't had appendicitis in the last fortnight - terrifying. My turn will surely come...

As for joggers and athletes, I've seen five or six round here resorting to using full aqua-lung kits so they don't have to breathe the air. And now it's getting to about 28C (84F), so lugging that lot round while jogging must be truly exhausting, such dedication. (Did you know the air tanks weigh nearly as much when empty as when full?)

I'm just gonna stay indoors, eat pies and read about how the "White Hats" have replaced the Queen's real dogs with experimental radio-controlled-robo-spy dogs that report what she and her the evil illuminati chums are cooking up for us next. Apparently the data collection is going well; it's already been confirmed that nearly 60 per cent of the world's politicians are actually human, but are all corrupt and dangerously incompetent. But I think we knew that already!

Nick

that's the first I've heard of Hospitals being over run with surgeries, that sounds really bad...

vilcabamba
29th July 2013, 01:25
Fred,

It's 2013 and your still debating whether they are real or not????
With all the evidence from people like Cliff Carnicom (carnicome.com) and Dr. Hildegarde Staninger (see youtube videos)

Maybe your next poll should be:
Is the earth round or flat ?? Or is this a new age myth.

Come on... if someone doesn't believe chemtrails by now, then they are ignorant. There is too much info to deny. It's like the cointel pro agents still debating whether UFOs are real?? Come on!!!

Here are some more polls for Fred..

1. Is the sky blue or red
2. Do women have vaginas or penisis
3. Do cats Meow or Barrk

There, that's how stupid your poll is!

Fred Steeves
29th July 2013, 10:37
There, that's how stupid your poll is!

Hope you're feeling better today. :)

Cidersomerset
4th August 2013, 11:46
Chemtrail Proof: Evergreen Aviation Admits to Chemtrail Contracts with USAF

Sunday, 04 August 2013 10:32
Posted by David Icke


w_TS-Fqy6ec

Published on 1 Aug 2013


From Evergreen Aviation Website :

The Evergreen Supertanker is not just limited to fighting fire . It will be a true utilitarian
aircraft with the capability to configure to different applications on short notice. This
multimission aircraft can support sensitive security and environmental missions. The
aircraft's exceptional drop capabilities, loiter time and size make it an ideal tool to
perform challenging homeland security missions, able to neutralize chemical attacks on
military installments or major population centers, and help control large,
environmentally disastrous oil spills.

In addition, the upper deck of the Boeing 747 provides over 200 square feet of space
that could be assigned as a command and control center. EIA possesses an FAA
exemption number 1870C that permits the carriage of up to five individuals that are not
crewmembers in the upper deck. This area is capable of providing space for command
and control components that would assist in sophisticated mapping, incident monitoring
and video/communications downlink relay that might require additional personnel over
and above the required crew.

apokalypse
4th August 2013, 13:10
New conspiracy show on network TV, Joe Rogan talked about chemtrail and welcome to take a piss on this guy.
NnnZR3xeVZ0

East Sun
4th August 2013, 13:27
Are those pilot lied to or bought or scared? I ask the some question of a lot of those who are in a position to find out what's going on.

It seems that all politicians, since Kennedy, just go along in their phoniness mode except for a few who speak out-- and they get nowhere.

That means that something greater than the 'highest' on our land is in control.
What we need is change.
????

Hope to be back in Sep.

naste.de.lumina
7th August 2013, 16:08
Are those pilot lied to or bought or scared? I ask the some question of a lot of those who are in a position to find out what's going on.

It seems that all politicians, since Kennedy, just go along in their phoniness mode except for a few who speak out-- and they get nowhere.

That means that something greater than the 'highest' on our land is in control.
What we need is change.
????

Hope to be back in Sep.

According to the report of this topic, the pilots of commercial airliners have no idea that their aircraft are being used to fumigate the planet.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62079-Max-Bliss-Contacted-by-Chemtrail-Whistle-Blower----The-Beginning-of-the-End&p=711858&viewfull=1#post711858

Dennis Leahy
8th August 2013, 06:22
Ya know, there is not nearly enough German rap in this thread. Let's fix that...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8aPZyhLSdw

Dennis

Veiled Rain
8th August 2013, 10:27
OK--here goes
A we know(hopefully) the difference between a chemtrail and a contrail--how one lingers in the air stream and the other dispels and disperses fairly quickly
B--we have for many years seen crop dusters spraying agricultural fields with pesticides
C That would in itself hurt the argument that why would they spray something that the pilot knows would be detrimental to himself

It is all ABC dear folks
Do they exist?---is it population control--by poisoning the air we breathe--the ground water-the soil--or the foods we rely on to susist?

Have we seem them--are we aware of them?
Just look in the sky--somedays the cloud formations are fishscales--or horizontal lines that instead of dissipating over a few moments--they actually increase in size---and strangely the air feels heavier and denser than it did when I was a child.

I'm not going to give any documentation or photographs--they are too easily refuted by the skeptics
Just know that they have become a phenomenon that some observe and others refuse to.
Anything and Everything can be defined in subjective terms---adds credence to the old adage--We Believe What We Want to believe.
The sleepers out there--are forever in their hypnogoggic state and ONLY see how the government or the Powers that Be on this Earth--are acting with in our best interests--they would never harm us--for any reason--as a species we believe ourselves to be the most intelligent and far superior to any other being--HA
Those people are what I like to call--WRONG
But this is only my opinion
Format your own
Namaste
Much Love :grouphug:

soleil
14th August 2013, 20:34
i apologize if this has been posted, or also if this is disinfo....it doesnt appear to be, but i am not adept at smelling disinfo BS...

anyways heres the vid.... 3Z2iRormxkw
NASA admits chemtrails - 10 July 2013

Cidersomerset
18th August 2013, 10:10
Former Premier of British Columbia Acknowledges Existence of Chemtrails
Sunday, 18 August 2013 09:28
Posted by David Icke


http://www.davidicke.com/images/stories/August201393/cloudssec.jpg


Listen here ...

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/89173-former-premier-of-british-columbia-acknowledges-existence-of-chemtrails

dianna
20th August 2013, 14:02
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux8v5ZM6is4

East Sun
23rd August 2013, 17:05
I expect that they are working on ways to make those trails less visible. I have'nt seen as much trails lately (MASS.) and maybe it's my imagination but some looked a little different to the usual.
One thing is certain, they are fact.

Prodigal Son
2nd September 2013, 19:51
I'm finding that the activist groups on facebook are a treasure-trove of information that I can find nowhere else. So, maybe we shouldn't cancel our accounts just yet.

I've been wondering for years, if they're using commercial flights for spraying, if they are adding it to the fuel, how they get the aluminum oxides/barium/strontium/morgellons fibers past the combustion stages of the engines. Basically, it's impossible... but it appears a new whistleblower has solved the mystery for us....

(I have a good friend who is a private pilot flying a Lear jet for a local Long Island bigwig... I go flying with him occasionally in his Cherokee... and he has for YEARS refused to acknowledge chemtrails. I sent him this link this morning, and his response was "Holy Sh!t!"... and as always, forgive me is this has been posted somewhere already....)

http://realnewsaustralia.com/2013/08/04/corpus-delicti-geo-engineering-whistleblower-speaks-out/

[I'm not going to put this in an offsite quote, because this is too important for those annoying Italics]

August 4, 2013

*** BREAKING – Must Read!!!*** Corpus Delicti | Geo-engineering Whistleblower Speaks Out

Activist Max Bliss is contacted by aviation industry insider and confirms geo-engineering via chemtrails in a program code named “Hydra”.


By General Maddox. Contains excerpts from a blog post by Max Bliss.

It appears that activists around the world who oppose the covert geo-engineering aerosol programs, have just had their theories as to whether such programs actually exist, confirmed by an industry insider. The individual wishes to remain anonymous for reasons of self preservation. Nevertheless the information provided to activist Max Bliss appears genuine.

It all started when the insider contacted Max Bliss after viewing one of the many videos on Max’s YouTube channel (MrMaxBliss this is a video on his channel so you can find him). It appears he had become overrun with guilt for taking part in the mass poisoning of people and the environment and decided to speak out about it.

One of the main problems with atmospheric aerosol spraying (Chemtrails) is that never before had there been confirmation of exactly how the dispersal and logistics of it all was done takes place right under the noses of airline staff including pilots. All other information including, but not limited to, actual patents on the types of aerosols, patents on the delivery systems, military and other NGO’s official papers discussing geo-engineering and weather manipulation and much more is now readily available to prove that it’s not a myth or a theory but in fact 100% real and going on every day all over the world.

Our whistleblower has detailed exactly how it’s done and even goes into detail on they overcome obstacles like mosey pilots or ground crew. Again, to maintain the safety of our insider the photographic evidence has been withheld by Max and when he and his source feel that enough people know and the world is ready to receive this news on mass, then he will disclose more and more information and images. Please share this far and wide. It is lengthy but the information is absolutely astounding.

Original letter to Max Bliss,


“Max

The time has come to come clean. Hopefully what I write here will help end the world-wide atrocity that I have been a part of. I know that what I say will shock many, but seeing that you seem to be almost there with uncovering the truth, the sooner this is out in the open the better.

So you know, I am a management pilot with one of the carriers that has figured in your videos; I am involved in the regulatory side of things, which is required because since just about everything we do in these spraying programs is illegal according to the CAA and JAA regulations, if a pilot becomes aware of what we are doing he or she will come to me first and I, supposedly, take it from there. Surprisingly very few of our pilots have become aware of the program, but your videos have alarmed the small group of managers I report to, and I fear the cat may soon be out of the bag.

At first I thought you had actually cracked it. From your latest videos you have accurately identified the method of getting the Al2O3 into the atmosphere, but not where it is stored. Right in the middle of most airliners, apart from the very short range ones, is the CWT or centre-wing fuel tank. As aircraft are fuelled, the tanks in the wings are always fuelled first to preserve what is know as favourable wing bending moments. Unless the aircraft is scheduled for a long-range flight, the centre wing tanks are empty and can be isolated if required by the use of shut-off and cross-feed valves.

Doing it this way allows us to accurately load the right amount of the material and avoid overloading the aircraft, which is a safety risk, particularly on take off. You are correct about the TMA. Other methods of delivery required too much in the way of pumps and switches, which meant too many people would notice what was going on. Under the guise of fitting an inerting system, which is automatic and has no cockpit controls, we can pressurize the CWT enough so that once a simple valve is actuated remotely, the TMA is drawn through the lines by the pressure differential and flows into the exhaust where it does its thing. And doing it this way has only one drawback, it limits “spray flights” by us and other airlines to shorter range flights but that is just a matter of scheduling and logistics.

Really the only people who need to be involved are the people who empty the honey-cart who must purge the TMA system after use; they are required to wear protective clothing for the honeycart job which also covers them for accidental exposure to TMA; and the refuellers who must configure the fuel system from a panel under the wing; have you ever wondered why most refueling systems have two pipes attached to the wings?

Extraneous weight issues are handled by a small team of flight dispatchers, who exclusively handle the spraying flights. Some time before each flight they check the destination, alternate and departure airports, the planned loads and make sure that the prevailing winds will guarantee that the runways most likely to be used have a performance safety “pad” that will compensate for the extra weight that the pilots are unaware of. If there is any doubt then the TMA will not be loaded. Some other safety precautions include adjusting FMC stall margin values so the pilots do not climb too high for their REAL weight which could cause a high altitude stall. One of the ways we realised that was a problem was graphically illustrated back in 2009. Guess what I am talking about…

Under this program, I have personally been subjected to death threats should I ever reveal what is happening. Low level personnel are simply trained to do the job and have no real idea what is happening. Little do people realise that those doing what are considered menial jobs, refueling and “waste disposal” are paid very handsomely for what they do, and their general ignorance means they don’t ask any questions. I guess that is just as well because they are monitored 24/7.

By doing this I hope to end the fear and guilt I and others have been suffering. Long ago I was spun a tale about how this program was a beneficial thing for the world and I believed with all my heart. Eventually, after much soul searching.. I realised the evil in which I was such an integral part”

Max goes on to comment about this and provide details as to why he was contacted.

I am sure as a first time reader, you may be questioning is this real…? Well of course the emails are real and genuinely sent from who knows where, the techy people can deduce that.

I have done a great deal of research, the reason the whistleblower contacted me is because of my recent physical investigation when taking a flight, of one of the carriers I have seen spraying. I took photos and remembering much of the likely technical possibilities made assumptions and speculated on the likely system used. I contacted one of the internet radio shows I have been on and they ran a show rendering the pictures and my ideas. I was a little too quick and made mistakes, actually very basic mistakes. However, according to my new source I was actually close.

Here’s the next email he received. Again, It is lengthy but the information is absolutely astounding. Please read and do your best to stay with it. It gets a bit technical at times.


“Hello Max

This message contains some graphics which if released, may expose my identity to those in the know. How that is handled by you is critical. I will let you know what you can share and what is for your eyes only. Secrecy is still very essential at this time.

My well being depends on it.

Earlier I told you about the unease regarding the use of TMA. Some of the reasons are obvious. Some not so. At the core of some of the problems is the cost of producing it in worthwhile quantities. Google some of the companies that sell it for an idea about how much just one spray flight must cost the taxpayer.

Europe is a problem because the vast majority of flights flown in the Eurozone are made by smaller aircraft such as the ones my company fly. Intercontinental, and longer range flights are more efficient because they are done by larger jets which can actually carry aluminium oxide in raw form. I will also explain how that is done in this message.

So…. as management, by law, we are not allowed to dictate to our captains how much fuel they carry on any particular flight. As professionals they know that fuel is expensive and they generally do not over-order but we must devise methods to ensure they do not order so much fuel for a particular flight so as to require the unused capacity of the CWT.

Control of this factor is done by using scheduling and logistics as explained earlier, and also by what is called the minimum equipment list, or MEL’s. On every aircraft, this is a list of defects that can be legally carried on a flight. Nowadays, all aircraft have a lot of redundancy built in to all their systems to allow for this. The MEL list allows aircraft to fly with minor defects and then be repaired in scheduled downtime.

Here is a photo of the MEL we use to allow the aircraft to fly, but prohibits using the CWT.

( NOT SHARED)

Earlier I told you how the CWT needs to be isolated so the TMA can be loaded. Reading this MEL you can see that even if one of these valves isn’t working then the CWT cannot be used in normal flight. Every flight that we use to spray carries this bogus MEL. Any suspicion by pilots that we carry this MEL too often is managed by making sure that no captain is rostered for a spray flight more than once a month. Rostering is tightly controlled by management. Every operator of the aircraft we fly has this MEL list so you may release this information.

Now to the larger aircraft. One of the problems with the smaller aircraft is that their cargo compartments are only designed to load passenger baggage and maybe a small amount of parcels via hand and a belt loader. Consequently there is no extra room in them for tanks/pumps etc required for really large scale spraying. Having this restriction means going down the TMA route, with all its attendant problems.

Extra negative factors include the impossibility of hiding the weight of large amounts of aluminium oxide from pilots on the smaller aircraft. “Meth”, as it is known by the few of us intimately involved, weighs less than the equivalent amount of fuel, so there is no real problem there. The extra weight is hidden by the methods explained earlier. Really large scale spraying however requires a bigger solution. Among the other problems of TMA is that aluminium oxide is only one of the byproducts created when TMA combusts, so burning a kilo of it creates much less than a kilo of AL2O3.

Intercontinental sized aircraft have advantages that are the answer to these problems. Like their smaller cousins, they can also carry TMA using the same systems if required, and more of it. Some, like the earlier domestic version of the 767 do not have a CWT, but most do.

High capacity aircraft like the A380, 747, A340, 777, A330 and the ER versions of the 767 all have the two things that make them ideal for large scale spraying. One is a large volume CWT and the other is two large capacity cargo compartments where aluminium oxide, mixed into a slurry with methanol, (for dispersion) can be loaded inside specially converted ULD (Unit Loading Device) containers.

When a spray flight is scheduled, a calculation is made by specially trained flight dispatchers as to the availability of payload weight that can be used for spraying. Early in the process, it is determined if both aluminium oxide and TMA can be used; just TMA for longer flights or if there is no spraying availability; generally this occurs on ULH (ultra long haul) flights.

At all times the weight limitations of the aircraft must be observed. Safety is paramount; the risks of TMA notwithstanding. You can see a loading message below. I cannot allow you to publicly disclose this because it is proprietary and was an actual flight, and may endanger a sympathetic contact I have in another company.

(NOT SHARED)

Some of this is a bit arcane but bear with me. In line 8 you can see a value called the Zero Fuel Weight. This is the key to making sure pilots do not know they are carrying spray material and still keeping the aircraft safe. The ZFW is the weight of the entire aircraft, including passengers and freight, minus the fuel. On the right of the actual value is the regulatory maximum that this value can be, on this particular aircraft type it is 175000 kgs.

For this particular flight, you can see that the ZFW was almost at the maximum value. On this particular day, the weight of the passengers and freight carried, (the total traffic load in line 6), which the pilot has no means to physically check, was altered to reflect the weight of the passengers and cargo PLUS the spray material, in this case both aluminium oxide and TMA.

One major advantage of this system is that it is foolproof from a safety point of view. Landing with spray material still on board, say in the event the remotely operated release valve failed, could mean big trouble if that weight was not accounted for by the pilot on landing. You can see that if the material sprays correctly, the aircraft will actually be much lighter for landing than the pilot realises, but all that means is that the landing is much safer from an operational point of view. On the other hand if the valve failed (rare but it has happened) the weight of the material is procedurally (but unknowingly) accounted for by the pilots in their landing distance calculations that they must carry out, and therefore the risk of a landing over-runs is negated.

Under this system, the critical speeds that are always calculated for a safe take-off are also inherently correct.

Now to look how all this is done in practice. All large aircraft are refueled from a single point, by convention, usually under the left wing. In the following photos you can see the twin hoses that are used, and if you look very carefully at the CF6 engine in the background and the foreground in the second , you will see the same spray nozzles that are present on the 737 engines.

I took these photos myself at a large European airport, they are not proprietary so you may distribute them, or get your own CF6 photos off the net. Visually, the spray pipes are small but they have high capacity pumps inside the pylon (inside the white access panel on the pylon) which forces out large quantities of material in a small amount of time if required. Energy is diverted from the exhaust gas stream to power these pumps…. they are simple, foolproof, operate continuously when the engine is running and require no flight deck control.

Going with this system means that flexibility is maintained. Using TMA for longer range flights, loading can be done using the second hose. Lines carrying TMA and their access points, are part of just about all airports. Located only at the left hand wing, to keep the operation as simple as possible, they are pressurised to reduce the chance of air getting into them with the inevitable results. In the case of non TMA flights, the second hose is just there for show and is not being actually used.

But in the case of aluminium oxide, the weight and bulk of the material means that this method cannot be used. Loading aluminium is done by the modified ULD container method. Even this method however has its safety considerations which must be followed.

Cargo loading is critical and must take into account the weight and balance restrictions that all aircraft have. Real problems can be caused by mis-loading as the aluminium oxide slurry is very heavy. Every flight, even non spraying flights, must have containers loaded in correct sequences to avoid balance errors.

Duty load dispatchers aren’t required to know what is in the containers, just what each one weighs in order to get the sequence correct. ULDs that are modified for spray purposes are always loaded first at either cargo door (locations pictured below). Loading them this way is essential because they have pipe arrangements which hook into the onboard spray system, and the heaviest containers must go as close as possible to the C of G as you can see from this proprietary diagram… (not to be released.)

(NOT SHARED)

One can see that CPT 2 and 3 have the heaviest allowable weights, 20 and 15 tonnes respectively which is fortunate because they are the areas that must be used by the modified ULD containers. ULD use is ubiquitous and the modified ones can be found at holding areas at airports around the world if one knows what one is looking for. Suffice to say, if you are looking for evidence about how ULDs can be modified, check out “envirotainer” and imagine how simple it would be to do the required modifications.

Using the ADSB system, the inflight position of the aircraft is always known by spray controllers. New ATC procedures mean that the position of spray aircraft are always broadcast to satellite receivers that sites such as FlightRadar24 do not have access to. Spraying, even over oceans, can therefore be targeted very accurately and efficiently.

Knowing all this is a heavy burden I now wish to pass on to others. Every day has become a trial for me. Please us this information wisely. Trust is important..for the reasons we both know so well. I cannot meet you till this is out in the open, hopefully these disclosures will be the tipping point for you. Can you disseminate this as widely as possible, without the info that must remain confidential? All I long for is an end to this guilt.

Leaving it with you now, in hope……”

Well done if you’ve made it this far. What are your thoughts? By all accounts this information appears to be the real deal. If so, where to from here? I would suggest forwarding this article to as many people as possible, share on social media, and email it to people within the aviation industry and the government to let them know the jig is up. Even if it turns out to be bogus, it will, at the very least, let them know we’re keeping a close eye on them.

Nick Matkin
2nd September 2013, 21:39
Very interesting and detailed, although I know nothing about aviation or the credibility of the language, so I did a bit of Googling and one of the first links to this exact story came from metabunk.org in this thread. (http://metabunk.org/threads/max-bliss-anonymous-chemtrails-airline-insider-speaks-out.2132/#post-59008)

The general opinion seems to be that the piece was written by someone who knew and understood what they were talking about from within the aviation industry. But others from a similar background point out the contradictions and inconsistencies to the insider's story.

In my opinion the following quote from Metabunk hits the nail on the head - others will strongly disagree:



I've never understood what the argument is for why the "main stream media" won't report on chemtrails, even though (supposedly) "the evidence is undeniable!"

After all, they had no problem at all reporting on the Wikileaks scandal which embarrassed a lot of governments. And similarly Snowden's revelations were very damaging to governments and also to the evil big corporations that were complicit. Last I heard none of the journalists who had reported on those things had befallen any nasty "accidents" and the media organisations they worked for had all done very nicely out of the stories.

If the evidence is as strong as the ct followers believe then any journalist worth his salt would jump on this story faster than you can say "contrails don't persist". It would make their career and they would go down in history, as would whatever paper or network they worked for.

I admit the whole subject is very murky indeed...

Nick

mischief
2nd September 2013, 22:03
A week ago I watched as the classical hatch patterns were made which form a large letter A in the middle, which could be quite easy to dismiss as flight patterns from relevemt airports. The difference with these trails was that they were a different colour to the normal whitish, they were mushroom brown, on a clear sunny day in blue skies. There haven't been any trails for a number of weeks in my area, then this brownish hatching. Its the first time I have seen this colour. Brown condensation?.......(snip)..........Meanwhile still watching, might keep a diary.........the brown ones really got my attention though.


Thank you !!!!
This is the first time I have seen anyone else but me make any mention of the brown colour of what they saw.
I always assumed that anything following behind a plane was a contrail....til one early morning I saw the sky covered in brown lines-just once, never seen since. That was around 5-6 years go.
I have no idea how they got there-what sort of plane or why, but they looked so odd I kept watching them and saw them thin out to a beige haze.
In the morning sun this looked a glorious goldy beige, the gold morning sky I often see but not the beige.

I work outside, in the country and get to see big sky everyday, not hemmed in by any buildings.
Where I live, we are Not under any flight path, I do see the occasional plane flying off in the distance.
The other reason it couldnt have been from normal planes is that these lines all ran east/west. New Zealand is a long skinny country running a more north/south line, so for these to be contrails they would surely have run in that general direction too.
And no, before you ask, these did not look like normal clouds, they were thin lines, evenly space over the whole sky, while we do get the odd straight line clouds way way up high, they are more randomly lined up and unevenly spaced.

After having a rather heated discussion with someone on this subject, I again started note of what was going on above me, coincidence?, but the day I decided to keep my camara with me outside on my day off, a small local plane flew over not far from our house. I say a local plane cos there is a farmer round here who has a plane he flies around quite often, it sounded like the same plane at the time so I assumed it was, just much later than I normally hear it-about half an hour or so before sunset rather than mid day-ish.
I looked up to see if anything was trailing out behind them and saw nothing.I didnt expect to but... as it was quite late in the day and getting quite cold, I thought there may have been a chance that it did produce a longer lasting trail even though it was much lower than the lines I have seen in the past.
About 15 minutes later I glanced up again and could see where the plane had been was now a milky white thick line tapered at both ends with a slight break in the middle.It drifted north/west over our town. It must have been at a different height to the lower clouds cos they stayed still and then more slowly drifted off towards the south.
Its possible and even probable, that this was a contrail. I just dont know either way, but I thought I'd add it here, just because its another odd thing I saw and only four days ago, so my memory is still fresh and somebody more knowledgeable about these things can set me straight on it.

Fred259
2nd September 2013, 23:56
Thanks Fred I think chemtrails are real and there are various reasons for them. I
have posted many times and ex pilot Fred 239 ? ...That would be Fred259.


That's right that would be me.....

Hello Cow...long time no speak. However we do seem to me making a little progress with this controversial subject although I do find the poll results incredibly scary.

Here is a very good video that explains what happens when you throw boiling water from a pan into the air where the outside air temp is -40C. It doesn’t have to be -40C, it could equally be -10C so some of you folks in the Mid West and Canada will be able to try this experiment in a few months time for real...... go on give it a try......

It is exactly the same in a jet engine. The inner engine temp is circa +600C (three times hotter than your kitchen oven), the temp at the back end of the engine mightbe +200C and the exhaust is being ejected into the atmosphere where its -50C on average. Think about that for a moment from +200C to -50C, think of the shock cooling.......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE1CeL6n7Ps[/url]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE1CeL6n7Ps

In the video towards the end they are talking about contrail cirrus with is being caused by the increasing volume of moisture being injected into the atmosphere by wide-body aircraft with monster engines. Part of the problem is that people think back to the old days when we had DC9 aircraft and Pratt & Witney 20,000lb trust engines. Today the General Electric GE-90 engine that powers the B777 for example is rated at 125,000 lbs of thrust a 6.25 fold increase in deliverable trust and power compared with the DC9 and the PWJD9 engine from the 1970's.

The contrail cirrus they are talking about in the BBC video is due to the vast amount of power or thrust that is being produced that in turn produces vast amounts of contrails to put it bluntly.

Here is a video of the Airbus A350 maiden flight in June this year. I post this up in good faith however what will happen is that some idiot will get hold of it and edit out what the video is all about and turn this into a chem-trial “Proof video” Don’t be dumb. Its the maiden flight of the A350. The reason I’m posting it up is to point out at 1.31 into the video the engineer goes down the back and we see rows and rows of what looks like drums or tanks. In the past those who try and confuse you have attempted to suggest that these are chemical tanks. Nonsense, the tanks are used to change the centre of gravity fore and aft of a datum point by pumping the water inside the tanks fore and aft. That's what the engineers are doing. That is the purpose of this flight.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA7L51j9OlI[/url]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA7L51j9OlI

The data sheet below is for the Rolls Royce XWB engines that power the Airbus A350 and the Boeing 777 300ER. These engines are rated at 75,000 to 97,000 stonking lbs of thrust! These are huge monsters that are sucking in 1,440kgs of airflow per second. Now stop! Think...for one moment that is nearly 1.5 tonnes of air being sucked into each engine per second. Appreciate what that might look like. If you stop and stare at contrail for let's say 5 minutes, instead of thinking about the nonsense you have been reading on conspiracy theory websites, think with a clear head and think logically. The 5 minutes that you have watched the aircraft disappear over the horizon with it long jet trail is in reality 300 seconds. Therefore 300 seconds x 1.4 tonnes of air per second x 2 (because the aircraft has 2 engines) is a staggering 840 tonnes of air that the engines have sucked in and compressed through the engines in the short 5 minutes that you were staring and wondering.



How do we know this? Again the problem is you must appreciate what 500kts speed is really like. 500Kts is 500 nautical miles per hour, so if we divide the 500 nautical miles by 60 minutes we get 8.3 nautical miles per minute. That is the distance the aircraft travels over the ground in one minutes of time. Just trust me with this,,, one nautical mile is 6,080feet, therefore 8.3 nautical miles x 6,080 feet is 50,464 feet in horizontal distance travelled per minute. If we then divide the 50,464 feet per minute by 60 seconds we get 841 feet per second.

Therefore when you look up and see the aircraft pulling a trail it is moving through the air at 841 feet per second, which is how they achieve the 1.4 tonnes of air compressed through the engines /per second per engine in order to produce the 97,000 lbs of thrust that’s required. The technology has moved on from the 1970's and that is what you aren’t told on the conspiracy websites.

Go now outside your home and walk your dog from your house door for 841 feet or 256 metres and then stop and look back at your home. That is how far the aircraft travels over the ground in one second. In that one second the engines will consume or compress 2.8 tonnes of air. Look at the distance to your home again. The 2.8 tonnes of air go through the engine in less than one second thus producing the huge contrail. In the Rolls engine Nozzle Guide Vanes direct the gas from the combustion chamber onto the turbines are a staggering 2,500 feet per second. It's not like the garden hose. They are monsters...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Trent_XWB

Here is another way of looking at this problem. Those of you who live in mid or northerly latitudes have no excuse for not understanding this. You folks from Australia and equatorial regions won't experience this problem so you are excused! Here is the question.

Why is it, in winter when you take the car from the garage and drive down the road, and especially when parked up at traffic lights you can physically see the exhaust smoke coming from the exhaust pipe of the car.?

And why is it when in the same car that came from the same garage in summer, while parked at the same traffic lights, why is it you can't see the exhaust smoke from the exhaust pipe of the car?

In summery, in winter you can see the exhaust smoke, while in summer you cant. Why is this?

Whiskey_Mystic
3rd September 2013, 00:04
Lots of good info and videos on this thread.

I'm confused by the title of the thread. If chemtrails were a myth, what would that have to do with the new age spiritual movement? What would be the connection there?

Fred259
3rd September 2013, 00:11
22619

What is going on here I wonder. Are these chemtrails? Is this Rothschild and the NWO spraying the ocean!

Why is it clear in the forground , while behind the baldes its mist and then fog.

PS These are naturally produced condensation trails, just like the aeroplanes.

Whiskey_Mystic
3rd September 2013, 00:17
Fred, do you have any idea where these are located? I know that California seeds mercury iodide, but I've never heard of them doing it from windmills and they usually do it on mountaintops.

Also wondering if this could be a natural phenomenon.

Whiskey_Mystic
3rd September 2013, 00:32
I live in northern California. Chemtrails have become normal here every day and people have gotten used to it. I've been here long enough to remember that the sky was once different.

My father was career Air Force and moved to Shasta a few years ago. Soon after he moved he began telling me about odd patterns and activity in the sky. My father is a very conservative guy and laughs at any and all conspiracy theories. I showed him some articles and exposed him to several theories and told him we really don't know for sure what is going on, but something is indeed going on.

My father, who has spent his life around aircraft and aerial phenomenon, absolutely agrees that what we are seeing are not normal contrails. It is true that in certain rare conditions, long-lived contrails are created. However, they are not created every day, in patterns, and then spread out to cover the sky in haze. And that's what we see all summer long in Shasta and other parts of northern California.

We may not know exactly what chemtrails are, though I think I have a pretty good idea myself at this point, but anyone who does not believe that chemtrails exist simply isn't paying attention or is choosing a belief over empirical observation. The question of whether or not they exist should be long over by now.

P.S. I was in India for a month and I didn't see a single chemtrail while I was there. The sky was blue except for an occasional jet contrail, which lasted a few minutes and was gone.

Fred259
3rd September 2013, 00:43
Fred, do you have any idea where these are located? I know that California seeds mercury iodide, but I've never heard of them doing it from windmills and they usually do it on mountaintops.

Also wondering if this could be a natural phenomenon.



Yes, its a natural phenomenon, its nature. The wind turbine blades are rotating and mixing the air which is supersaturated with moisture. The mixing has caused the supersaturated air to condense out and form mist and then fog.

Conversely, in front of the blades in the foreground of the picture the air is still supersaturated but the moisture is held in the atmosphere in a gaseous state which is why its clear.

This is the problem, you only get half the story.

When we then transpose this science into jet trails what we are saying is that if the atmosphere is unstable and supersaturated you are going to get heavy jet trails.

If the atmosphere is stable and the air is able to hold moisture in a gaseous state (i.e. an invisible gas) you won't get any trails. Appreciate however that the aircraft are still passing overhead.

Paul
3rd September 2013, 01:02
The presence of benign means to produce "chemtrail" like (appearing) effects in the sky does not prove the absence of malign means, nor the absence of their malicious use.

Fred259
3rd September 2013, 01:03
I live in northern California. Chemtrails have become normal here every day and people have gotten used to it. I've been here long enough to remember that the sky was once different.

My father was career Air Force and moved to Shasta a few years ago. Soon after he moved he began telling me about odd patterns and activity in the sky. My father is a very conservative guy and laughs at any and all conspiracy theories. I showed him some articles and exposed him to several theories and told him we really don't know for sure what is going on, but something is indeed going on.

My father, who has spent his life around aircraft and aerial phenomenon, absolutely agrees that what we are seeing are not normal contrails. It is true that in certain rare conditions, long-lived contrails are created. However, they are not created every day, in patterns, and then spread out to cover the sky in haze. And that's what we see all summer long in Shasta and other parts of northern California.

We may not know exactly what chemtrails are, though I think I have a pretty good idea myself at this point, but anyone who does not believe that chemtrails exist simply isn't paying attention or is choosing a belief over empirical observation. The question of whether or not they exist should be long over by now.

P.S. I was in India for a month and I didn't see a single chemtrail while I was there. The sky was blue except for an occasional jet contrail, which lasted a few minutes and was gone.


I agree Mount Shasta is quite unique it does produce its own weather. At 10,000 feet it rises above the Californian plain. Vast amounts of air is blowing in from the west pacific ocean which is both warm and moist. As this air passes over the much warmer windward side and the land mass towards Mount Shasta it becomes unstable and its this instability that causes clouds to build and rise. As the air is forced to rise against the mountains including the Rockies the temperature decrease at the saturated adiabatic lapse rate forming clouds and condensation which falls as snow (on shasta). On the lee side of the mountain range the air warms at the dry adiabatic lapse rate and so the lee side of the Rockies for example is much warmer and less humid compared with the west.

Mount Shasta is also a key node, some would say Stargate on the World Wide Grid.

kaon
3rd September 2013, 01:16
I have really been enjoying this thread and had already viewed a few of the videos. There is absolutely no question in my mind that they are real and happening daily somewhere in the US.

My own observations have showed me that the chem trails in my State are happening at least 3 days per week. I live near an airport in NY. On Memorial day I hosted a BBQ in my back yard. This year is was sunny and pleasant. I watched the sky waiting for the chem trails and oddly enough by noon time, none were present. In fact, they didn't even start the spraying that day until about 3 pm. I then watched planes taking off at an exact trajectory about every hour. The planes would then disappear from sight from my view and reenter at a specific pattern while forming the chem trails. I watched this pattern go on until about 9:30 pm. The sky was still slightly illuminated (by light pollution), and that was the latest that I had seen the spraying done. Since then, I have noticed the spraying does go on well after sunset which really made me question the theory that the chem trails were being used to reflect the Sun's rays back into the atmosphere. It would seem to be fruitless to do so after sunset.

Another observation I had made last month was the enormous length of some of the chem trails. I was driving from NY to South central PA and keeping my eye in the sky while the spraying was being done. I am telling you, one of these chem trails must have been at least 50 to 60 miles long. I kept watching it as I drove through a good part on NJ. The spraying was being done by at least a dozen planes as I watched new chem trails being formed during my entire trip of 5 hours across 3 states.

The question is not whether they fact or fiction, but why. My eyes have not been lying to me.
Theories abound, I haven't quite made up my mind yet as to the real purpose/s, but I am getting no positive vibes out of this at all.

Whiskey_Mystic
3rd September 2013, 01:17
Fred, do you have any idea where these are located? I know that California seeds mercury iodide, but I've never heard of them doing it from windmills and they usually do it on mountaintops.

Also wondering if this could be a natural phenomenon.



Yes, its a natural phenomenon, its nature. The wind turbine blades are rotating and mixing the air which is supersaturated with moisture. The mixing has caused the supersaturated air to condense out and form mist and then fog.

Conversely, in front of the blades in the foreground of the picture the air is still supersaturated but the moisture is held in the atmosphere in a gaseous state which is why its clear.

This is the problem, you only get half the story.

When we then transpose this science into jet trails what we are saying is that if the atmosphere is unstable and supersaturated you are going to get heavy jet trails.

If the atmosphere is stable and the air is able to hold moisture in a gaseous state (i.e. an invisible gas) you won't get any trails. Appreciate however that the aircraft are still passing overhead.

I appreciate your input, but you are still not addressing why we see these aircraft flying grid patterns day in and day out. Why do these "contrails" then spread out and cover the sky with a haze?

Fred259
3rd September 2013, 01:50
[QUOTE]I appreciate your input, but you are still not addressing why we see these aircraft flying grid patterns day in and day out.

What you call Grid patterns are highways in the skies normally established around navigational beacons with entry and exit lanes into terminal areas that protect major airport hubs.


Why do these "contrails" then spread out and cover the sky with a haze?



Sometimes the contrails spread out and cover the sky with a haze and sometimes they don’t

Sometimes the clouds spread out and cover the sky with a haze and sometimes they don’t.

This is what people report including post #129. They write sometimes we see the chemtrails and on other days they are not spraying. The reason for this is that they have been conditioned to think about spraying, chemtrails and such like rather than understanding what is really going on.

The answer to your question is that the clouds spread out and the contrails spread out because the atmosphere is supersaturated and is no longer able to hold moisture in a gaseous state. Condensation occurs and the clouds and contrails spread out as you correctly point out.

Conversely if the atmosphere is unsaturated the moisture that is found in the clouds and the moisture that is found in contrails still exists, EXCEPT its exists as a gas or in a gaseous state, so you cant see the moisture. When the atmosphere is unsaturated clouds and contrails don’t form.

Whiskey_Mystic
3rd September 2013, 02:13
I appreciate your input, but you are still not addressing why we see these aircraft flying grid patterns day in and day out.

What you call Grid patterns are highways in the skies normally established around navigational beacons with entry and exit lanes into terminal areas that protect major airport hubs.


Allow me to clarify. I watch individual aircraft make these grid patterns. I watch them cross the sky, turn, and proceed to make the grid pattern. This is not my misunderstanding of air traffic lanes. Have you noticed that you make a lot of assumptions to support your position?

Fred259
3rd September 2013, 02:28
I appreciate your input, but you are still not addressing why we see these aircraft flying grid patterns day in and day out.

What you call Grid patterns are highways in the skies normally established around navigational beacons with entry and exit lanes into terminal areas that protect major airport hubs.


Allow me to clarify. I watch individual aircraft make these grid patterns. I watch them cross the sky, turn, and proceed to make the grid pattern. This is not my misunderstanding of air traffic lanes. Have you noticed that you make a lot of assumptions to support your position?

It doesn’t matter what way they are flying up and down around in circles or inside out

What matters is one of two things. If the atmosphere able to hold moisture in a vaporised or gaseous state in which case no contrail will form, or is the atmosphere unable to hold moisture in a gaseous state, in which case a contrail will form.

I’m not making any assumptions at all. I’m just telling you facts based on 35 years experience. The airline industry doesn’t work on assumptions.

Bill Ryan
3rd September 2013, 02:32
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCohucT7FmQ

Fred259, please watch this video. Thanks.

ketikoti
3rd September 2013, 03:22
A lot of so-called chemtrails are probably contrails - Guest essay by Dr. Tim Ball:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/09/02/chemtrails-or-contrails-another-alarmist-issue-without-scientific-context/

Wind
3rd September 2013, 05:50
No chemtrails in third world countries = massive deadly weather changes there. Chemtrails in western countries = mostly mild weather changes compared to the third world countries.

FraZZleD
3rd September 2013, 06:22
I read about 2 pages of replies and decided to post what I know and researched. Much of what was said on this subject I've read or watched a video on the internet. Here's something to think about..... or research on your own. One person said that chemtrails can cause Autism. Well I did read somewhere that a study was done on the Amish Communities and there was no Autism within their group of people. They have chemtrails over their farms and towns just like the rest of us. If chemtrails were connected in any way then they would surely have one person that would have Autism. They have non.

Next I was told by someone that Chemtrails will never be sprayed when the President comes to town. I watched during the campaigning season. Every time the President was to show up, guess what? No chemtrails were in the sky! I didn't believe the person that told me that but it really did happen..... just like they said. So my question is does anyone live near the white house? Do they spray chemtrails over the white house ever? I'd be curious to know.

I've been a sky watcher my entire life from childhood. When I saw the first chemtrail it started back in the early 80's in Calif. I pointed it out to people but no one ever said a thing. It bothered me from day one when I first saw it. Little by little it became more and more. When I left Calif. all they had were smeary skies and that was 1989. When I got to where I moved to I saw real clouds again. Then it started happening where I moved to. Now we have days of just smeary skies again!

I had a house out in the country. I woke up early one morning to the sound of planes. I did not live in a path of flying planes so I got up really fast to see what was causing all the noise. When I looked out my front door there where 6 planes flying side by side flying from east to west they were military planes spraying chemtrails. They turned all at the same time just behind my house and created a checkerboard in the sky. When they turned they were flying from south to north criss crossing the lines they had already made. I had lived for about 5 years there and never saw any planes except super high in the sky. These planes were lower and very loud. I took pictures of the sky as they were streaking across. The clouds lingered and spread and became a massive smear in the sky.

The newspaper here reported that Congressman Dennis Kucinich called it Chemtrails while talking about HR 2977. That's a Congressman calling it Chemtrails.... An official of a government office.

One more thing to think about... Why is the secret so secret and kept a secret so well? Because they lie to the people doing the spraying and they think they are helping the world by what they are told. People who thinks their government won't lie to them. People who sign a contract stating they will not talk about what they do!!!! Don't all government agencies sign that same contract?

Considering the fact that Dwight Eisenhower's speech warned about guarding against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military–industrial complex.
And Kennedy said there is very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment.
There have been many warnings from past government officials...... of what was coming...... If we didn't ask the right questions and make the government accountable.

Well these are my questions....What is being done to the skies that were not being done before the 80's and why? Because so far I haven't seen a answer that satisfies me.

Whiskey_Mystic
3rd September 2013, 07:12
I had forgotten that Kucinich had said that chemtrails were real when he was in Santa Cruz around 8 years ago. He clammed up, but he did want us to know that.

Fred259
3rd September 2013, 08:36
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCohucT7FmQ

Fred259, please watch this video. Thanks.



Hi Bill,

I had a quick look at your video, and I have to say I am shocked that you of all people with a respected degree from Bristol would be posting up this nonsense. Its complete disinformation and total utter nonsense.

The video is the usual 100% rubbish, I say again I can't believe you are posting this let alone believing it what is being reported. It's the usual format, a 20 minutes video that starts with Bechtel Corporation and scare scare scare. Next up images of wind turbines and global warming, more scare scare scare this is then followed by a 3 minute voice-over on the UN with accompanying pictures than mean nothing. The UN is followed by 4 minutes on EMF radiation scare, cell phones and the old favourite HAARP, followed by more scare. Then geo-engineering which means chemtrails barium and a whole lot of dogs nonsense. The geo-engineering is supported by images of ballast tanks in the cabins of test aircraft which are used to pump water fore and aft over the centre of gravity and centre of pressure by test engineers prior to certification of new aircraft in places like Seattle, Toulouse or Bristol Filton. The public have no understanding of aeronautical testing and evaluation and so deception lies and confusion wins.

So what is this video about? Nothing. They have nothing sensible to say which is why the content changes every three minutes. Misinformation confusing and disinformation. It's a 20 minutes scare video on nothing. Notice how they introduce subjects that are well outwith the knowledge and understanding of the vast majority of mankind.

90% of the content on the alternative media is produced facilitated and funded by those who 90% of the good folks who read the alternative media, totally and utterly despise. It's called controlling public opinion.

My favourite book is by Christopher Andrew who is the Professor of History at Cambridge ISBN 0 340 48561 – “KGB the Inside Story of its Foreign Operations from Lenin to Gorbachev” 661 pages in hardback, a masterpiece containing the complete history of Europe over the last 100 years.

The book also goes into great detail of how the Russian people were deceived by a tyrannical regime who used every trick available including deception, character assassination, smears and a multitude of other methods. In sixty short years between 1910 and 1970 the communists slaughtered 80 million people, the so called enemies of the state. Think about that for one moment in 60 years or 21,900 days the communists murdered 80,000,000 human beings, that’s 3,652 per day or 152 of every hour of every day.

What is happpening within the alternative media is part of that deception, part of that trickery which in the fullness of time will have devastating consequences for the majority of mankind.

People need be able to differentiate between fact and fiction. It is complete fiction for example that 19 muslins flew aircraft into the World Trade Centre, however a considerable number of Americans and Europeans believe they did exactly that. Those who don’t believe the official line on 9/11 pose a risk to those who were really responsible for 9/11, and so they control the alternative media to keep you away from the truth about 9/11 as well as other equally serious matters that effect our lives.

Chemtrails is just another nonsense story to keep the alternative media looking into the sky while the really serious issues which in my opinion include the control of money, the loss of democracy through subversion, and very serious issues such as Syria are able to continue unabated.

sdv
3rd September 2013, 08:37
No chemtrails in third world countries = massive deadly weather changes there. Chemtrails in western countries = mostly mild weather changes compared to the third world countries.

I am not convinced that it is that simple as Gaia is very interconnected. Scientists specialise and so I doubt that there is any scientist that understands the whole and all the parts.

I live in a 'third world' country. This winter has been the coldest I can remember, and very wet, and it only started getting cold mid-June, which is supposed to be mid-winter here. I also do not live under a flight path so, no planes in the sky at all.

I have read both sides of the chemtrails debate. Those who believe that what they are seeing in the sky are chemtrails are very resistant to facts. Those who believe that what they are seeing are contrails provide a lot of logical and common-sense facts, but do not consider that even if they are contrails, there probably is a reason to be worried that the sky is being obscured by trails. Plus, scientists in the 'first world' have been experimenting and advocating for chemtrails (fact because papers presented at conferences, patents, and so on do exist) and there is not enough public debate about this. It's our sky - let's debate vigorously before you start messing with it. The debate seems to be confined to the alternative community, where it is debunked or ignored. Not good!

Human beings are adaptable. We have the right to choose to adapt to climate change rather than spray all sorts of stuff into our atmosphere.

Going back to the question of 'third world' countries not being protected from climate change. There is scare-mongering in that children at school are taught that 'third world' countries will suffer the most from climate change. What children are not taught is that we are also better equipped to adapt; for example, in Africa, we do not need central heating to survive the winter. We use blankets. (My dearly departed Mom knitted blankets for us from scraps of wool and then sewed a backing on it, so in the winter we sit around with Mom's blankets wrapped around us!

Besides, I don't think that 'first world' countries will be protected from climate change by spraying stuff in the atmosphere. Really? Global winds and ocean currents?

mgray
3rd September 2013, 12:31
Hi Bill,

I had a quick look at your video, and I have to say I am shocked that you of all people with a respected degree from Bristol would be posting up this nonsense. Its complete disinformation and total utter nonsense.

The video is the usual 100% rubbish, I say again I can't believe you are posting this let alone believing it what is being reported. It's the usual format, a 20 minutes video that starts with Bechtel Corporation and scare scare scare. Next up images of wind turbines and global warming, more scare scare scare this is then followed by a 3 minute voice-over on the UN with accompanying pictures than mean nothing. The UN is followed by 4 minutes on EMF radiation scare, cell phones and the old favourite HAARP, followed by more scare. Then geo-engineering which means chemtrails barium and a whole lot of dogs nonsense. The geo-engineering is supported by images of ballast tanks in the cabins of test aircraft which are used to pump water fore and aft over the centre of gravity and centre of pressure by test engineers prior to certification of new aircraft in places like Seattle, Toulouse or Bristol Filton. The public have no understanding of aeronautical testing and evaluation and so deception lies and confusion wins.

So what is this video about? Nothing. They have nothing sensible to say which is why the content changes every three minutes. Misinformation confusing and disinformation. It's a 20 minutes scare video on nothing. Notice how they introduce subjects that are well outwith the knowledge and understanding of the vast majority of mankind.

90% of the content on the alternative media is produced facilitated and funded by those who 90% of the good folks who read the alternative media, totally and utterly despise. It's called controlling public opinion.

My favourite book is by Christopher Andrew who is the Professor of History at Cambridge ISBN 0 340 48561 – “KGB the Inside Story of its Foreign Operations from Lenin to Gorbachev” 661 pages in hardback, a masterpiece containing the complete history of Europe over the last 100 years.

The book also goes into great detail of how the Russian people were deceived by a tyrannical regime who used every trick available including deception, character assassination, smears and a multitude of other methods. In sixty short years between 1910 and 1970 the communists slaughtered 80 million people, the so called enemies of the state. Think about that for one moment in 60 years or 21,900 days the communists murdered 80,000,000 human beings, that’s 3,652 per day or 152 of every hour of every day.

What is happpening within the alternative media is part of that deception, part of that trickery which in the fullness of time will have devastating consequences for the majority of mankind.

People need be able to differentiate between fact and fiction. It is complete fiction for example that 19 muslins flew aircraft into the World Trade Centre, however a considerable number of Americans and Europeans believe they did exactly that. Those who don’t believe the official line on 9/11 pose a risk to those who were really responsible for 9/11, and so they control the alternative media to keep you away from the truth about 9/11 as well as other equally serious matters that effect our lives.

Chemtrails is just another nonsense story to keep the alternative media looking into the sky while the really serious issues which in my opinion include the control of money, the loss of democracy through subversion, and very serious issues such as Syria are able to continue unabated.

Fred,
Please explain to us how a Contrail will dissipate after a few minutes of the plane passing, yet chemtrails will spread out creating a thin cloud-like structure, which can last for hours?
The two are quite dissimilar and I have seen both in the same sky with similar atmospheric conditions, so there appears that there is a chemical composition difference between the two.

Whiskey_Mystic
3rd September 2013, 22:07
The first step to wisdom is always the same.

Let go of what you think you know.

Nick Matkin
4th September 2013, 10:09
If you ask one of the many serious amateur meteorological internet forums about chemtrails/contrails you will get a very revealing answer.

These guys have no axe to grind. They understand atmospheric physics - which I suspect most of us on here do not. It really may be worth considering what they have to say.

Nick

araucaria
4th September 2013, 11:33
If you ask one of the many serious amateur meteorological internet forums about chemtrails/contrails you will get a very revealing answer.

These guys have no axe to grind. They understand atmospheric physics - which I suspect most of us on here do not. It really may be worth considering what they have to say.

Nick
And what do they have to say?

Marren
11th October 2013, 17:20
BUMP!

It's crazy to think that chemtrails is fiction.

Scandinavia is perticulary hurt because of the importancy of the air streams that is turning here.. I see chemtrails every single week and we are talking lines sprayed ALL over the place.

The forrest is also hurting a lot. Soil test's shows levels of barium, aluminum amongst other things shooting to the roof. Our moose is laso mysteriously dying of like bugs, a staggering 3/4 of the babies die. This has led to a lot off attention in the media and the avarage Joe is really starting to connect the dots. If a news paper posts a news article regarding the issue then the commentator fiels swells over with very aware comments about chemtrails.

Sweden that normally is a country where people are a sleep but the trend is really turning. Recently similar things happened with the Syria situation where the media was absolutely bombarding us with propaganda, people actually stood up in the masses expressing aware things. The news paper's was literally forced to turn the commenting fields of. This gives me hope.

There is also local polititions tied to the largest parties coming out fighting this now. We are a really small country and the morals of the avarage person here is really high, even to the degree that we often are being called morally paniced. The problem is that people have been so brainwashed. Things are getting out and the politicians here is not going to be able to run and hide to the same degree as in other contries like the US, once this amongs other things get out to the general public then the effects is going to be immediate. I often tend to get sceptic about the future, but if it keeps going this way then there might actually be some light in the end of the tunnel.

Don't know if it has ben said in the thread earlier but another important thing to understand about chemtrails is that they can be built in to normal passenger aircrafts. The first jet engines that could run on fuel with a high halt of metals came came out quite a while back and has the last decade been installed into commercial aircrafts. This also explains the sudden emerge of all of these low price airlines completely flipping the market upside down. For example SAS, Scandinavian Airlines which is the oldest and most prestige airline here was just barely saved from bankrupcy. Obviously you are forced to use this kind of fuel. I mean, how can you otherwise fill up plane after plane with 20$ tickets haha. It's crazy.

Peace :)

aviators
12th October 2013, 03:02
BUMP!

It's crazy to think that chemtrails is fiction.



Don't know if it has ben said in the thread earlier but another important thing to understand about chemtrails is that they can be built in to normal passenger aircrafts. The first jet engines that could run on fuel with a high halt of metals came came out quite a while back and has the last decade been installed into commercial aircrafts. This also explains the sudden emerge of all of these low price airlines completely flipping the market upside down. For example SAS, Scandinavian Airlines which is the oldest and most prestige airline here was just barely saved from bankrupcy. Obviously you are forced to use this kind of fuel. I mean, how can you otherwise fill up plane after plane with 20$ tickets haha. It's crazy.

Peace :)

I'm still waiting for credible whistle blowers on this idea. Way too many people
would have to be involved. Someone recently said and I cant recall who?
ET technology is doing the spraying and the planes are just decoys. Some kind of cloaking?
Sounds about right. I have my doubts planes were used on 911 ;)

mischief
12th October 2013, 05:48
Its alittle hard for me to believe that what I personally saw was normal exhaust from a plane- not on flight paths,the lines all going east/west-ish, across the whole sky evenly spaced, brownish in colour.....no not normal,Its a pity I didnt see what put them there.
Clouds....nah, I look at the sky everyday and have done since I was little, clouds dont look like they did either.

sheme
12th October 2013, 07:53
We had a video here US Air force base female ground crew officer who looked at her docs to see what was in the barrels they where taking up- she was threatened when she asked too many questions - resigned then gave talks to enlighten the people about the "cancer causing metals" etc they are spraying us with. I can't find that video any more- anyone?
Here is the lady but not the original vid start at aprox 3.00mins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjnf-r5y5p4#t=173

mahalall
12th October 2013, 09:42
The UK meteorological office terms and conditions of employment,
"Salary progression and bonuses are based on the contribution you make to our business and the impact that has. An individual's contribution is assessed across three key areas of the job.
Capability (what you know) - the expertise and skills brought to, and applied effectively to, the job, informed by the relevant professional skills framework.
Behaviour (how you go about doing your work) - the observable behaviours and interpersonal skills you use to achieve your work objectives.
Achievement of objectives (what you produce and deliver) - effectively using your skills, experience and behaviours to produce valuable outputs that benefit both your team and the business. Work objectives are set and reviewed continuously, starting 1 April each year"

And with a generous bonus scheme,
In total last year the Met Office handed staff £2.7million, with £942,000 of this given for meeting accuracy targets.
This is the highest amount paid to staff in bonuses for correctly predicting the weather compared with each of the past five years. The Met Office’s chief executive John Hirst was last year paid a total of £185,000, which included a bonus payment of £20,000 – although he took a voluntary pay cut in April last year when his contract was extended.Almost 2,000 staff at the organisation were also given a £346 bonus in their wages as a congratulations for hitting their weather forecast accuracy targets.

When individuals have debts and mouths to feed it is going to be difficult to say chem trails when refering stratospheric aerosols
elC5wZ1OJPo


http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/about-us/recruitment/benefits
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2421565/Met-office-hands-1MILLION-bonuses-staff--just-getting-weather-right.html

sheme
12th October 2013, 18:09
Excellent find Mahalall- You can't rob Peter to pay Paul. But you can bet someone is charging a lot for this service, I hope the geoengineering companies have serious insurance policies because many will want recompense soon.

Seeker finder
6th November 2013, 23:00
I have observed the spray planes for several years now, after hearing the topic brought up on talk radio where the caller was being mocked. I decided to start watching. Wow. All I want to know at this point is who and WHY. I have seen various docs on the subject. I really became interested on a deeper level after one morning observing four planes flying in two pairs at the north and south quadrants of the sky. They were zig zagging east to west as they sprayed. What I call a 'canopy' formed when the trails expanded creating a wall of cloud. Within 30 minutes a blue clear sky became grey and overcast and anyone watching could clearly see that it was the result of the planes activities. I filmed this and many subsequent sprays. I even tuned in to what appeared to be a spraying schedule, boy they love writing 'x' in the sky. I posted a few vids on YouTube and was contacted by another observer who told me to film a wider perspective rather than close ups of the planes and he also advised me to view my footage in slow motion and to look close. He didn't tell me what I was looking for. To my surprise when viewing in slow motion there are orbs around the chemtrails. They are so fast it's easy to miss them if you don't know to look. However, on one day I filmed a pink orb flying around a trail and several weeks later found another video on YouTube of an orb that was identical to the orb I myself had filmed. Only this second video was filmed in France whereas I am in Denver colirado USA. yes there is something going on! WHAT exactly has yet to be understood. I have lots of chemtrail footage that shows the planes spraying and many of the vids feature orbs (sometimes in mass).

Here is the French video which shows an orb like the orb I myself filmed:
http://www.examiner.com/article/pyramid-ufo-glides-along-the-path-of-a-chemtrail-amazing-new-video-from-spain

Here is my film:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7ywoYupaKcU


The orb from France has a light where the pink orb in my footage didnt have a light (or maybe it wasn't on). I work with balloons for a living btw, and first saw this as a balloon. Until I realized for this to be a balloon it would be a HUGE balloon. I work with 6ft balloons and this would've had to be much larger than 6ft in diameter based on how high it was.

The video is best in HD but was degraded after conversion. When you look at the footage in slow motion and zoom in, what you see is identical to the French footage.
We were going to link our vids but the other poster wanted me to change the title from balloon to UFO and I simply never got around to it. Weird. What are the chances that a huge pink balloon just happens to be hanging out by a chemtrail on opposite sides of the earth. Oh I'm sure it's possible, but I'd say its more likely that some unknown technology is being used here that myself and the French poster happened to get photos of.

aviators
6th November 2013, 23:53
Here's the French video.
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You can track some planes here. http://www.flightradar24.com

I'm not convinced chemtrails are coming from planes. The logistics don't add up.

Seeker finder
11th November 2013, 11:29
All I know, is on several occasions the sky was clear and blue. I observed anywhere from one to as many as four planes spraying something under such conditions (clear sky). I sat and watched as the planes left trails that expanded and within minutes the sky was overcast, grey, totally covered where the planes had been leaving trails. You could even see the edge where the coverage abruptly ended and blue sky began. Looking at the coverage, at times you could see what looked like weaving! Like a sort of fabric, almost as if whatever was sprayed had a life of its own. Another word I've used is 'netting'. I have been an avid even obsessed sky watcher from youth. These planes and the resulting changes in the sky have been bazaar, filming the planes zooming in, all but one segment I've filmed the planes are the same planes every time, white and blue in color. The one time the plane was different it was a military tanker. What really struck me, was how quick the sky went from clear to overcast in conjunction with the activity of the planes. I filmed on two occasions where two planes were spraying and flew towards one another only changing course just before the danger point, as if they were having some daredevil fun while writing 'X's in the sky. These were not commercial flights to be sure! What I observed was so peculiar I filmed hours and hours of their activity over a period of about ten months. In that time I saw several UFO's, lots of orbs, and the wild antics of pianes that weren't behaving as conmercial flights.i certainly wouldn't want to be on a plane behaving as these were! I have no idea what to think as far as who what and why or how, but SOMETHING strange is happening. Right in front of everyone's eyes!

Cidersomerset
11th November 2013, 16:58
Theres a lot about chemtrails in this documentary...

SHADE the Motion Picture


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Published on 15 Oct 2013


Shade exposes the true power structure embedded in our global reality, showing the
true controllers their plans to Geo-engineer our planet and control the populace.

mahalall
17th November 2013, 20:33
The materials disbursed in stratospheric aerosol geoengineering operations contain a combination of ionizable metallic salts, filaments, gel-type materials, and crystals. These are the longstanding and deeply interrogated observations of independent environmental research scientist Clifford Carnicom (1). With such stratospheric pollution it would seem economic sense to avoid flying through it.

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1) http://www.globalresearch.ca/chemtrails-aerosol-geoengineering-and-bioengineering-a-massive-biological-experiment-of-unknown-purpose/5315539

Oouthere
17th November 2013, 20:48
LOL, the video should be called "ChemTrail Sprayer 100% Spoof filmed up close by AF pilots." This a sarcastic joke made by pilots. The video itself shows this not to be anything but a contrail. Flying through different humidity levels will cause this (i.e. coast lines, weather fronts, etc). If it were real the disbursement would be consistent across the wings (except for directly behind the engines). You can even seen the contrail reforming on the port side of the fuselage after it first stops, just more moisture.

Everything is not a conspiracy.

thunder24
19th November 2013, 21:39
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/sep/19/russia-un-climate-report-geoengineering

for those wondering why...


Russia is pushing for next week's landmark UN climate science report to include support for controversial technologies to geoengineer the planet's climate, according to documents obtained by the Guardian.

As climate scientists prepare to gather for the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) in Stockholm to present the most authoritative state of climate science to date, it has emerged the Russian government is asking for "planet hacking" to be included in the report. The IPCC has not included geoengineering in its major assessments before.

The documents seen by the Guardian show Russia is asking for a conclusion of the report to say that a "possible solution of this [climate change] problem can be found in using of [sic] geoengineering methods to stabilise current climate." Russia also highlighted that its scientists are developing geoengineering technologies.

Geoengineering aims to cool the Earth by methods including spraying sulphate aerosols into the stratosphere to reflect sunlight, or fertilising the oceans with iron to create carbon-capturing algal blooms.

Such ideas are increasingly being discussed by western scientists and governments as a plan B for addressing climate change, with the new astronomer royal, Professor Sir Martin Rees, calling last week for such methods to buy time to develop sources of clean energy. But the techniques have been criticised as a way for powerful, industrialised nations to dodge their commitments to reduce carbon emissions.

Some modelling has shown geoengineering could be effective at reducing the Earth's temperature, but manipulation of sensitive planetary systems in one area of the world could also result in drastic unintended consequences globally, such as radically disrupted rainfall....

Rocky_Shorz
19th November 2013, 22:12
I watched them paint the grid out here yesterday, and today woke to huge punch hole clouds...

(for those who don't remember the original discussion, a punch hole cloud is the bottom side of an anti matter burst, that launched into space from chemtrail clouds... )

they are still using Thorium out here in Colorado for the chemtrails?

I thought we decided to never use it again?

could it be the gas fume burn-off at the refineries pumping this much into the air?