Truth Versus Illusion: How can you ever know if you are experiencing the truth?

[Justintime]

This is a question that I ask myself on a weekly basis,but can never answer adequately. Evidence does point to the existence of a holographic universe, but what does this mean regarding the truth of our experience? Even if our universe is just a shadow of the true universe our minds are still actively experiencing something that most certainly is real. However if we are just living in the shadow of the true universe is that because we are not ready to exist in truth yet?

Also, the question of our afterlife and its validity as being a True place(one that hasn't been constructed to ensnare us spiritually in the belief of reincarnation for example.) is something that needs to be answered somehow and hopefully before I die, otherwise I feel like we could just be recycled again and again in an illusory world for the purpose of who knows what. So how would we be able to tell that a heaven or hell or temporary holding place for reincarnating souls isn't an illusion?

To be honest I'm not real sure I can even list attributes of Truth and of Illusion because both are dependent on each other for their definition. So, how to know if your mind and soul are being deceived or if they deceive you?

[Fred Ryan]

These are questions I used to grapple with. Questions that may not have answers.

However, as I grow older, I'm increasingly realizing that it's not really a question of truth versus illusions but a matter of excepting it all, both good and bad, as being perfect. Learing to except the devinity of my existence and learning to turn my anger at God for putting me here into gratitude. Oddly, I've noticed many of the things I used to worry about are now melting into the background and, overall, I've noticed my life getting better and better.

[Justintime]

Links to the World as an Illusion
Platos Cave Allegory
http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/greek/philosopher/myth_allegory_cave_plato.html
Holographic Universe
http://onswipe.com/thedailygalaxy/#!/entry/laws-of-physics-for-a-holographic-universe-new-theories-of,51ae7ed0da27f5d9d0d78c50/4
The Philosophy of The Matrix
http://scienceblogs.com/neurophilosophy/2007/08/04/the-philosophy-of-the-matrix/
Gnostic creation myth and the Matrix
http://matrixrel.weebly.com/gnostic-creation-myth-and-the-matrix.html

[Justintime]

Dark City Versus The Matrix- if the world is an illusion and truth is malleable we could........

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[ghostrider]

as morpheus would say, your Mind makes it real ...

[Justintime]

as morpheus would say, your Mind makes it real ...

I think I know what you mean by this, your mind believing that something is real is strong enough to make it real....., but it may only be real to you. However, something has to be true apart from belief, true? If not than only the perceiver exists?

[jiminii]

as morpheus would say, your Mind makes it real ...

I think I know what you mean by this, your mind believing that something is real is strong enough to make it real....., but it may only be real to you. However, something has to be true apart from belief, true? If not than only the perceiver exists?

with enough intention a being can create anything out of nothing ... right from the static ,. means ... if you had enough intention you could create a chair out of NOTHING itself

Jim

[Justintime]

as morpheus would say, your Mind makes it real ...

I think I know what you mean by this, your mind believing that something is real is strong enough to make it real....., but it may only be real to you. However, something has to be true apart from belief, true? If not than only the perceiver exists?

with enough intention a being can create anything out of nothing ... right from the static ,. means ... if you had enough intention you could create a chair out of NOTHING itself

Jim

So, a being ( perceiver/creator) could essentially create a world out of nothing, a world with its own physical and spiritual laws held up by that beings intention?

[Bubu]

as morpheus would say, your Mind makes it real ...

I think I know what you mean by this, your mind believing that something is real is strong enough to make it real....., but it may only be real to you. However, something has to be true apart from belief, true? If not than only the perceiver exists?

with enough intention a being can create anything out of nothing ... right from the static ,. means ... if you had enough intention you could create a chair out of NOTHING itself

Jim

So, a being ( perceiver/creator) could essentially create a world out of nothing, a world with its own physical and spiritual laws held up by that beings intention?

We haven't known of any human who have accomplished that so far, but there are those who are able to create some small events or maybe small things which we call miracle. And it is not just intention. It should be good intention.

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=231&Itemid=71

read page 41

[Justintime]

" Furthermore, in these experiments, simply feeling love- based emotions was not enough to affect the DNA samples: the intent to alter them had to be present.Thus, Rein's research links torsion energy to life-affirming emotions—in particular to unconditional love, which propels both our individual and collective evolution. "Only the love-based emotions stimulate DNA to decompress so that messenger RNA can access codes for healing." Negative emotional states compress the DNA helix, "severely limiting access to genetic information necessary for healing as well as evolution"
Hmmmmm, I think I understand this. Good stuff, thanks.

[ROMANWKT]

This is a question that I ask myself on a weekly basis,but can never answer adequately. Evidence does point to the existence of a holographic universe, but what does this mean regarding the truth of our experience? Even if our universe is just a shadow of the true universe our minds are still actively experiencing something that most certainly is real. However if we are just living in the shadow of the true universe is that because we are not ready to exist in truth yet?

Also, the question of our afterlife and its validity as being a True place(one that hasn't been constructed to ensnare us spiritually in the belief of reincarnation for example.) is something that needs to be answered somehow and hopefully before I die, otherwise I feel like we could just be recycled again and again in an illusory world for the purpose of who knows what. So how would we be able to tell that a heaven or hell or temporary holding place for reincarnating souls isn't an illusion?

To be honest I'm not real sure I can even list attributes of Truth and of Illusion because both are dependent on each other for their definition. So, how to know if your mind and soul are being deceived or if they deceive you?

Hi Justintime

This is precisely what I am dealing with at the moment, yes we need to distinguish truth from illusion, because there is truth and there is delusion, there is manipulation of truth and manipulation of illusion, once you begin to understand you will be able to discern what is and what is not. I have started a thread, and no I have not disappeared, I am still going through the 143 recordings @ 2 hours each, its a brilliant work of exposing the manipulation of truth and the road to real enlightenment to your real power.

All the info to start is here from page 3 http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59941-Solipsism-the-biggest-spiritual-Con.

There is most defiantly a fine line between truth and illusion, and you need to understand what to do to stay in the center of both polarities of your mind, that where one must start to unite the polarities into just one.

Regards

roman

Add on......There is only one, all is one, at the moment you are two, these are your polarities that must be brought to one, listen and understand well.

[Justintime]

I'm checking this thread out as we speak. Thanks again!

[dim]

that which asks this question will vanish in to thin air upon truth is found
and only then you will be sure beyond any doubt

[ROMANWKT]

that which asks this question will vanish in to thin air upon truth is found
and only then you will be sure beyond any doubt

I am a product of 40 years of gibberish, though I do understand what you are getting at, you're still pushing gibberish onto people, get rid of the gibberish and explain properly what you are saying my friend, it means something and nothing at the same time.

Regards

roman

[Bubu]

that which asks this question will vanish in to thin air upon truth is found
and only then you will be sure beyond any doubt

I am a product of 40 years of gibberish, though I do understand what you are getting at, you're still pushing gibberish onto people, get rid of the gibberish and explain properly what you are saying my friend, it means something and nothing at the same time.

Regards

roman

nice Roman I like the way you said it. clear and concise.

[Tony]

This is a question that I ask myself on a weekly basis,but can never answer adequately. Evidence does point to the existence of a holographic universe, but what does this mean regarding the truth of our experience? Even if our universe is just a shadow of the true universe our minds are still actively experiencing something that most certainly is real. However if we are just living in the shadow of the true universe is that because we are not ready to exist in truth yet?

Also, the question of our afterlife and its validity as being a True place(one that hasn't been constructed to ensnare us spiritually in the belief of reincarnation for example.) is something that needs to be answered somehow and hopefully before I die, otherwise I feel like we could just be recycled again and again in an illusory world for the purpose of who knows what. So how would we be able to tell that a heaven or hell or temporary holding place for reincarnating souls isn't an illusion?

To be honest I'm not real sure I can even list attributes of Truth and of Illusion because both are dependent on each other for their definition. So, how to know if your mind and soul are being deceived or if they deceive you?



Hello Justin,
Your answer is in the question!
How can you ever know if you are experiencing the truth?

You are that which experiences the question.
That pure awareness is the truth, for without it
nothing would be known.

That is the eternal answer.

The problem is our conceptual mind, that wants convincing.
We are not this constantly changing mind, as we are aware
of what is going on in that mind...and you cannot be what you see!

If you are looking for the truth about the physical universe,
there is only one truth...everything comes to pass!
Everything is of a temporary nature, so has no real reality.

The mind get caught up in speculation - an imaginary world,
a dream state. In this, we just go round in circles...
this is what forums do ;)

Know that your own knowing is the truth.
Without that, you will never find peace.


Best of luck,
Tony

[soleil]

hey justin, it seems that you missed the hey-day of the threads by vivek where he goes into detail of the matrix etc. i believe those are listed as important to read threads by PA.
you are on the right track by asking questions. PA has most if not all of the answers to the questions. :D
and i say that as a person who came here knowin nuthin' 'bout anything.

[Justintime]

This is a question that I ask myself on a weekly basis,but can never answer adequately. Evidence does point to the existence of a holographic universe, but what does this mean regarding the truth of our experience? Even if our universe is just a shadow of the true universe our minds are still actively experiencing something that most certainly is real. However if we are just living in the shadow of the true universe is that because we are not ready to exist in truth yet?

Also, the question of our afterlife and its validity as being a True place(one that hasn't been constructed to ensnare us spiritually in the belief of reincarnation for example.) is something that needs to be answered somehow and hopefully before I die, otherwise I feel like we could just be recycled again and again in an illusory world for the purpose of who knows what. So how would we be able to tell that a heaven or hell or temporary holding place for reincarnating souls isn't an illusion?

To be honest I'm not real sure I can even list attributes of Truth and of Illusion because both are dependent on each other for their definition. So, how to know if your mind and soul are being deceived or if they deceive you?



Hello Justin,
Your answer is in the question!
How can you ever know if you are experiencing the truth?

You are that which experiences the question.
That pure awareness is the truth, for without it
nothing would be known.

That is the eternal answer.

The problem is our conceptual mind, that wants convincing.
We are not this constantly changing mind, as we are aware
of what is going on in that mind...and you cannot be what you see!

If you are looking for the truth about the physical universe,
there is only one truth...everything comes to pass!
Everything is of a temporary nature, so has no real reality.

The mind get caught up in speculation - an imaginary world,
a dream state. In this, we just go round in circles...
this is what forums do ;)

Know that your own knowing is the truth.
Without that, you will never find peace.


Best of luck,
Tony

Thank you for your answer Tony. I remember taking a class on Buddhism my Freshman year and being turned on to it immediately. Growing up from a Catholic background studying anything that included reincarnation and karma was exhilarating. IMO, a huge flaw of Christianity is that it says little to nothing about reincarnation and clearly a loving God would not judge someone based of one life whose length and quality differs for all. Anyways, the more I thought about reincarnation the more I thought of it as an undesirable thing. Parts of human life are just to painful to relive again and again and again. But I'm off topic here.

Anyways, yes, everything comes to pass indeed and everything changes and that which changes can not be real. So, illusions by there very nature are illusory because they change, the easiest example of an illusion for me would be the self. Who and what the self is, is always in flux and the self can not know truth as long as it believes itself to be stable. Also, this earth, this sun, this universe will all pass, will all fade away in there own time. And they will not exist forever.

So yes everything is temporary and therefore it has no reality to it. Agreed.
Pure awareness is the truth is a concept I'm unfamiliar with and look forward to contemplating this.

Thanks again for your response

[Observer1964]

as morpheus would say, your Mind makes it real ...

This could be interpreted as your mind being like the computer from where the projection into this hologram is created.

Or like in Avatar these holographic bodies are controlled by the real us somewhere in the multiverse.

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