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Sammy
22nd July 2013, 15:39
If you and another lives in a state of self deception and you then figure out your own self deception and you see that the other suffers from a similar (or perhaps even the same) self deception, and you are involved in an ongoing relationship with this other, then you now face a dilemma.

That dilemma is - Do you “placate,” “mollify,” “pretend all is as it always was” with regards to the old world view your own self deception had generated, which is the world view the other perceives you to have always had (and thus should continue to have)?

Or, do you now be your “new self” which, just by your very being, states your new world view?

This is not going so far as to starting conversations that may present your new views and the arguments behind them because that is deemed as “imposing.”

But in being honest, how “honest with others” is one when their world view dramatically changes and one remains in relationship with folks they have known for some time and so as to not "rock the boat" you deceptively manifest your "old self?" Do so with folks you have known for years? Perhaps they are relatives? Perhaps even close relatives?

This is a true dilemma and I am exploring my options.

When I rest in my “Big Self” I see no sides... yet, the moment I finish the "in-breath," differences arise.

spiritguide
22nd July 2013, 16:27
As this is a subject that effects all, my experiences have been to be true to yourself and allow others to ponder your new perceptions. All that can be done is to express your views/perceptions openly and honestly. I found that those who truly know you will not shy away, but try to understand about your new found perceptions in an objective way. Just don't accept the problems of those who don't. Just one of many ways to handle such situation IMHO.

Peace be with you!

Joe Akulis
22nd July 2013, 16:58
Hmm. Wonder if there is any way to develop a better understanding of your past and contrast it with theirs? And I'm talking about the BIG past, like where you and this other person really come from? Did you both spend all of your past incarnations here? If so, perhaps you hail from very different geographic regions? I don't know enough about you to know if you've already gained a lot of this understanding or not already, so forgive me if I may be wasting your time with this thought. But I'm starting to understand more and more that the reasons why it is easier for one person to ... migrate their beliefs to something truer, compared to someone else exposed to those same truths, usually has to do with their BIG past. A lot of times, the person who can improve their beliefs more easily is not truly being exposed to something new and more correct. They are simply re-learning something they already believed before this life began. Whereas the other person may have believed in the same things before this life that they still believe now. These types of beliefs that are carried over and held onto lifetime after lifetime are MUCH more difficult to move. And I'm quickly learning it is best to not press the issue directly with them. All you can do is accept your contribution to the group mind that is definitely evolving. And one day, these others will sort of find themselves just knowing that the earth revolves around the sun, even though they never sat down with Galileo and argued with him over the subject.

:-)
Love,
Seeker

naste.de.lumina
22nd July 2013, 17:02
Dear Friend.
This is the drama that we all have to continue to play a character (ego) in this crazy illusion that surrounds us (Matrix), while the people around us do not realize they are also characters in the matrix.
Do not cling to thoughts and feelings that do not make you feel good.
Be honest.
Do not try to impose your point of view as to destroy the ingrained beliefs can do more harm than good to people.
As I said above, this is the drama.

Good luck

sirdipswitch
22nd July 2013, 17:13
When I tell them I talk with God everyday, they Humor me, because they know that isn't possible. chuckle chuckle.

When I talk about UFO's being real, they Humor me, because they know better. cc.

When I tell them I have seen Bigfoot, they Humor me, because they know there ain't no such a thing. cc.

When I tell them how far down the rabbit hole I've explored, they Humor me, cuz thet know there ain't no hole. cc.

My Family and friends, all now know beyond a shadow of doubt, that I'm nuts. cc.

Some friends left. Haven't talked to some relatives for years. cc.

Just me and my dog now, in a one bedroom apartment, along with my invisible buddy George. (God) cc.

Good luck explorin yer rabbit hole, jagman!!! ccc. :wizard:

chocolate
22nd July 2013, 17:41
I see no dilemma, justoneman, because there is no such thing. YOU see the dilemma! The moment you try to phrase your thoughts, images, ideas, feelings is the moment you take away their true nature and you turn them into mortal soil and sand, so to speak. We, as observers create the things. I look at your description and I just see something that is already existing, but I don't put additional meaning into that situation. That is the nature of this life. To walk your path. Sometimes you will be alone, except for the godly presence that is always with you, sometimes you will walk with a company, but none of the above conditions define who you are and why you are walking.
Now, to be more practical here, you are experiencing something we all have or will face at one point. That is the difference of opinion, the difference in perspective, of ideas and beliefs, desires, longings, hopes, fears...But if I were in your position I would probably try not to change who I am in front of the old faces with their stagnant belief, rather I would try to see them as they are, and probably think from their perspective for a while just so that I try to walk with them also. But since I am a fiery nature and don't care much about the opinion and everyone else around, I probably would not put myself in the situation to try to fit in. If for you those people are important for who they are, and if you feel connected to them, try to stay in those relationships, but don't change yourself. And maybe they will see your new self and will embrace it, or may be they will walk away. That is their part to play. Don't be afraid and don't pretend, but also try to be kind to those people, be diplomatic, but don't make too much compromises with what you want and need.

I agree that in this life we face a lot of karmic debt, and also challenges of staying true to who we are. This whole life is a test of your/our resolve and determination. Lesson after lesson, until you take all exams in the best possible way for the path taken. Sometimes failure on some of those exams is actually a successful end to a lesson!

I am a bit sad to read how people choose at some point to become isolated. That is not the right answer to the dilemma, I think, although I do understand completely. In a way I have chosen a similar situation for myself, but I just cannot operate under constant pretense, and I am not shy anymore to show I am who I am, different or not, and whoever is my type of a person usually stays. One thing i know for sure, you need to clear space for the new opportunities and people by releasing what is not working with your new paradigm right now. If you choose to stay in a relationship out of the fear to be alone, or the pity for that other person, in both situations you create bad karma for yourself and for them. So in a way the right choice helps both sides, despite the fact that one or both of the sides may feel hurt.

Sorry for my english today, i am a bit tired. Hope I managed...

---> "New beginnings are often disguised as painful endings" Lao Tzu !

turiya
22nd July 2013, 17:48
Change happens... nothing remains set in stone... change is unavoidable...

Being conscious & being unconsciousness is not so much a black & white thing. Because, at various times, they often will overlap. There are layers of unconsciousness, layers of consciousness. The pealing away of one layer of deception may seem initially like coming out of the dark & stepping into the light. But really, one will find that there are more layers yet to become aware & to get through.

Word choice & usage is often indicative of the level of attainment. Language is often times restrictive, preventing change from naturally occurring. Nouns, for example, make it easy for people to communicate with each other, however, nouns give the sense that 'things' are more concrete, set in stone, than they really are. For example, the word 'relationship' infers that the relating between two individuals is a fixed thing. Things are suppose to remain the same between two people that are in a relationship together. A better way to look at a so-called 'relationship' is to use the word 'relating'. The verb usage allows for a flowing, a movement in energy.

With the growth of consciousness, using the analogy of sitting on the branches of a tree may be helpful. In the growth of consciousness, one is able to see that they have moved 'upward', a position higher up in the tree, from where they had once been sitting previously. While one can understand that now they have a much better view of the world at large, and how things are connected, one will still have to live in the world that others are living in... even though that world may have changed, somewhat, for oneself. One will still have to be in the world - buy groceries, take a taxi, pay the bills, pass by a pretty girl, etc. I am sure you have heard the phrase - "being in the world, but not to have the world in you."

Its like playing with children. It is easy to admire the innocence that is found in children. Because it is something that we, as adults, have lost due to being "forced" to "grow-up" & deal with the hardness of the world-at-large. But being around children, it can remind us of that innocence that we once had. Just because we have "grown-up", doesn't mean we cannot play with children as other children play with each other. As we grow older, there can come a time when we can reclaim our innocence. Its kinda like coming 'full-circle'.

In coming into greater awareness, its not really necessary to pronounce the "new found awareness" onto others. Everyone will do it on their own terms. Better, imo, to allow others to be who they are & grow at their own pace, on their own terms. Often times, blood-relative family members can impose habitual patterns of behavior on each other. This can often become quite burdensome, especially, when one is not acting or behaving according to family tradition, or as you once acted previously. It may be good to consider moving beyond blood-relative relationships, and to open up to the greater extended family that exists in the greater world-at-large.


turiya :cool:

donk
22nd July 2013, 17:56
Are you really asking: when, to thineself, should ye be true?

I answer: always. The dilemma is in the expression. Temper your truth to each individual that you would like to keep in your life.

chocolate
22nd July 2013, 18:02
I think turiya has said everything in a very beautiful way.

We all have that innocence still, just we live in the prison of the status quo, created by everyone. If you break the circle of trying, and let your true self express more freely, you will either find new sides in your relatives that you'll love, or you will find new people around you. Also, being alone is not a bad thing. Sometimes it is actually the best that can happen. That will give you the time to assimilate your new emotions and thoughts. Like giving the body the time to rest and renew, we need that same time emotionally, psychologically, personally, etc. And relationship sometimes hinder that.

"He saw all these forms and faces in a thousand relationships… become newly born. Each one was mortal, a passionate, painful example of all that is transitory. Yet none of them died, they only changed, were always reborn, continually had a new face: only time stood between one face and another." ~ Herman Hesse

Flash
22nd July 2013, 18:06
You are yourself with the near relatives, even when acting your old self.

I will sometimes chose my behavior based on an economy of energy in view of potential results. If they are relatives that I have put a distance with, or that cannot for any reason, harbor change, I may chose to act for a while "not to rock the boat" in fact, to protect my energies knowing that other ways would lead nowhere (I am thinking of my old mother here whose sense of control and therefore security is shattered every time we change too much and who cannot accept change anymore, she barely could before, imagine now!).

However, with people I am in deeper relationship with and with whom I would like to maintain a good deep commitment, I will introduce my changes slowly or not, depending on the situation, but I will introduce it.

Any perceptive person knows when it is the "acting" you Chester (or the acting me). I personally presume that those I love most and are the nearest are perceptive, me wanting our relationship to be that way.

Fred Steeves
23rd July 2013, 11:02
If you and another lives in a state of self deception and you then figure out your own self deception and you see that the other suffers from a similar (or perhaps even the same) self deception, and you are involved in an ongoing relationship with this other, then you now face a dilemma.

That dilemma is - Do you “placate,” “mollify,” “pretend all is as it always was” with regards to the old world view your own self deception had generated, which is the world view the other perceives you to have always had (and thus should continue to have)?

Or, do you now be your “new self” which, just by your very being, states your new world view?

This is not going so far as to starting conversations that may present your new views and the arguments behind them because that is deemed as “imposing.”

But in being honest, how “honest with others” is one when their world view dramatically changes and one remains in relationship with folks they have known for some time and so as to not "rock the boat" you deceptively manifest your "old self?" Do so with folks you have known for years? Perhaps they are relatives? Perhaps even close relatives?

This is a true dilemma and I am exploring my options.

When I rest in my “Big Self” I see no sides... yet, the moment I finish the "in-breath," differences arise.

Hi Chester, here's the way I see it (presently anyway). The moment we think we have left self deception behind, we have actually just created yet another whole new layer of self deception. The breakthroughs we have are like peeling the eternal onion, there's always more to peel away.

You know other than here, I rarely speak about these things we bandy back and forth. The goal of peeling back the proverbial onion is to get closer and closer to our authentic selves is it not? What is our authentic self, and how would it interact in this world? Something tells me it would flow through the waters of life without leaving any sort of divisive ripple in it's wake.

Whether sitting in a seedy downtown bar having a drink, or at a special gathering of Avalonians from across the world, a being who truly knows itself (and therefore others) and inherently practices "do unto others", will not change the way they conduct their self.

People come and go in life accordingly, no different than the tide going in and out. The only variable is what each individual leaves behind in their wake. As always, the choice is ours.

Cheers Brother,

Fred

Sammy
23rd July 2013, 14:12
WoW folks... awesome responses. This is why Avalon is second to none and there is no third.

DeDukshyn
23rd July 2013, 15:35
Being new isn't about what you say or do, as much as it is how you "be"

Be kind
Be loving
Be respectful (by being honest, but just because you think something doesn't mean you have to say it - select your truths)
Be yourself
Be consistent

Anything that isn't a state of "Being" isn't much a part of your equation as outlined, in my opinion (if I'm getting you right), but perhaps should be. For example, I can spout all day about the truths I know about, but am I being or preaching? I might be just preaching, which might have some merit at times, but can often be seen as imposing.

By being in a state(s) that is respectable by others, they may naturally have more interest in what you say, but at the end of the day, there is a distinction called "being" that I think you may or may not be overlooking in your dilemma.

Just some rough thoughts, to add to yours.

Finefeather
23rd July 2013, 16:11
Hi Chester
This is a wonderful subject, and more correctly, lesson, for us to get past us and keep in mind.

When reading your OP it reminded me of the born again Christian who has just come from church after been convinced that Jesus is the way.
They walk through life with a healthy dose of arrogance on their shoulder thinking all the others out their have no idea and are doomed.

A higher aspect of this is when the newly realized spiritual aspirant steps up and begins to think that all the born again Christian church goers are still far from truth.

Each of us is somewhere on the ladder to the realization of what lies ahead and who can tell when we meet someone new where they are on this ladder?
We cannot really tell because we ourselves have very little idea of what lies on the next step of the ladder...we can look down but never up.
We can only guess at the progress we have made based on our quality of life and how others might respond to our company...even then it is still only a self perception.

There are saying (Proverbs) like..."Escape quickly from the company of fools" and "walk in the way of good men, and keep the paths of the righteous" to consider.
But who will show the fool the way if we turn away from their needs...isolate them from truth...and shun their plea for light?

We are all part of the human family and this involves helping one another as best we can without any consideration for own selfish needs.

I would surely however take heed of the saying that "whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully" but at the same time we also need to keep in mind the ground on which we attempt to sow...because wasting our time in places where we cannot make a difference is surely blindness when we can use our knowledge for those who are eager to grow.

Take care and love to you
Ray

RUSirius
23rd July 2013, 16:13
Well Justoneman, I can tell you that I share in this "dilemma" I've not figured out the answer, I think donks explanation is a very good one and usable. Its amazing to me how many "different" people we have to be some times in order to cater to others reality, experience and mind.

jiminii
23rd July 2013, 16:56
If you and another lives in a state of self deception and you then figure out your own self deception and you see that the other suffers from a similar (or perhaps even the same) self deception, and you are involved in an ongoing relationship with this other, then you now face a dilemma.

That dilemma is - Do you “placate,” “mollify,” “pretend all is as it always was” with regards to the old world view your own self deception had generated, which is the world view the other perceives you to have always had (and thus should continue to have)?

Or, do you now be your “new self” which, just by your very being, states your new world view?

This is not going so far as to starting conversations that may present your new views and the arguments behind them because that is deemed as “imposing.”

But in being honest, how “honest with others” is one when their world view dramatically changes and one remains in relationship with folks they have known for some time and so as to not "rock the boat" you deceptively manifest your "old self?" Do so with folks you have known for years? Perhaps they are relatives? Perhaps even close relatives?

This is a true dilemma and I am exploring my options.

When I rest in my “Big Self” I see no sides... yet, the moment I finish the "in-breath," differences arise.

I started out in a super religious world ... my father jack mormon (drinks and smokes against the mormon religion) .. and married to my mom (a baptist or any but mormon)
and then I found a philosophy ... but the night before I join this philosophy .. I went out of body into a UFO ... and it was like going home ... for the first time ... my ability to remember how to operate everything in the ship just started to flash before me ..but before the philosophy I tried some Chant from a buddhist religion that helped me stop rain between 2 traffic signals on hollywood blvd ...

one reality change after another ... I learn how to control my thoughts from this new philosophy .. only to find it has been infiltrated by the elite cabal ... and waste some years in it ... to find those that left it had a way to get me back to myself ...(not knowing what my true self was) ... All it did was put me into another changed reality .. finding I am a creation from some spirit called metteyya ... and that this metteyya had also created a million more to be sent here .. but ... then the dates ... all didn't work ... they couldn't take me into a past life ... it was all blank ... but the meter indicated there was something there somewhere ... then you listen to this alex collier audio .. and find out we are from the future rerunning this period in the past .... and another reality change ....

I find the reason they could not find anything in my past is because I have nothing there ... I was created in the future ... then I find more like me on this website ...

with all these reality changes ... where can I take it ???? if that is not a dilemma I don't know what is ...

what I do know is this .. all those star seeds in the millions created by big spirits in the future ... (don't know mine is really metteyya ...only that the word popped up and all this light hit me ... more than I have ever felt ... it must be what it is like when we are source again ... total knowing total serene .. total all) ... so I
accepted this ..

with the help of this website .. some other people verified the future thing and the static thing and the abilities thing ... and I am still in a dilemma ....

I am like a baby ... (they would call us that in the philosophy ... like a baby creator .. one the can create planets stars and universes) ... but I am only the potential ... I have seen what the power can do .. but I don't know how to do the rest ... I only know what it has shown me ...

and this is sooooooooooooooooo far above what anyone's reality I have found ... who can I talk to??? .. I am alone ... I have no one to create with ... and no tools ... no operation manual ... (like Inelia would say) ....

but I know what I am .... when I came to this sight ... I thought I knew where everything was going ... now .. not sure ... I know as long as we are here ... nothing bad will happen ,,,,

this includes a pole shift and all the other predictions ... our just being here ... will hold the place safe from any major disaster ... but I still have to wait out the time .. go through all the events people predicted to see what really happens ...

8 years ago ... I knew all these predictions wouldn't happen .. and they didn't ... but I still .. (even though I feel sure with no doubts) .. this body I am in is in a different reality .. and it doesn't know .... so I wait it out ...

of what I can say is ... the energies and vibrations are so high ... we do it almost completely subconscious of this body ... it is like a bigger body ... managing these we are in ... keeping the game all stable and safe ....

so I find I don't need to teach anyone anything ,.. just let the vibrations do what they know how to do ... and it is like a permeation that takes place ... we CAN allow others their think ... IT IS TOTALLY OK ...

it is like we always LIE and tell our mothers how beautiful they are when inside we think they look horribly old ... but ... we do it because it is the greatest good

that is all we have to do ... let them believe what they want ... and let your spirit permeate it's realities to them ... subconsciously ... and let nature take its course ...

that is what I see

jim

Flash
23rd July 2013, 17:06
Hi Chester
This is a wonderful subject, and more correctly, lesson, for us to get past us and keep in mind.

When reading your OP it reminded me of the born again Christian who has just come from church after been convinced that Jesus is the way.
They walk through life with a healthy dose of arrogance on their shoulder thinking all the others out their have no idea and are doomed.

A higher aspect of this is when the newly realized spiritual aspirant steps up and begins to think that all the born again Christian church goers are still far from truth.

Each of us is somewhere on the ladder to the realization of what lies ahead and who can tell when we meet someone new where they are on this ladder?
We cannot really tell because we ourselves have very little idea of what lies on the next step of the ladder...we can look down but never up.
We can only guess at the progress we have made based on our quality of life and how others might respond to our company...even then it is still only a self perception.

There are saying (Proverbs) like..."Escape quickly from the company of fools" and "walk in the way of good men, and keep the paths of the righteous" to consider.
But who will show the fool the way if we turn away from their needs...isolate them from truth...and shun their plea for light?

We are all part of the human family and this involves helping one another as best we can without any consideration for own selfish needs.

I would surely however take heed of the saying that "whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully" but at the same time we also need to keep in mind the ground on which we attempt to sow...because wasting our time in places where we cannot make a difference is surely blindness when we can use our knowledge for those who are eager to grow.

Take care and love to you
Ray


I read you Ray and my heart makes a jump, every time. Thanks for being.

Gosh I love your presence, I love you very much.

MargueriteBee
23rd July 2013, 17:12
I had this same problem. I tried playing the old game but I just couldn't live a lie. I just started talking and kept on talking and they are just used to it now.

jiminii
23rd July 2013, 17:15
I had this same problem. I tried playing the old game but I just couldn't live a lie. I just started talking and kept on talking and they are just used to it now.

yeah me too

jim

Nanoo Nanoo
23rd July 2013, 17:58
If you and another lives in a state of self deception and you then figure out your own self deception and you see that the other suffers from a similar (or perhaps even the same) self deception, and you are involved in an ongoing relationship with this other, then you now face a dilemma.

That dilemma is - Do you “placate,” “mollify,” “pretend all is as it always was” with regards to the old world view your own self deception had generated, which is the world view the other perceives you to have always had (and thus should continue to have)?

Or, do you now be your “new self” which, just by your very being, states your new world view?

This is not going so far as to starting conversations that may present your new views and the arguments behind them because that is deemed as “imposing.”

But in being honest, how “honest with others” is one when their world view dramatically changes and one remains in relationship with folks they have known for some time and so as to not "rock the boat" you deceptively manifest your "old self?" Do so with folks you have known for years? Perhaps they are relatives? Perhaps even close relatives?

This is a true dilemma and I am exploring my options.

When I rest in my “Big Self” I see no sides... yet, the moment I finish the "in-breath," differences arise.

it seems to me you have evolved but not been true to your evolution by hiding it. Whats the point if you do not affect your enviroment with your new found evolution ?

Naniu

chocolate
23rd July 2013, 19:11
I had this same problem. I tried playing the old game but I just couldn't live a lie. I just started talking and kept on talking and they are just used to it now.

:) almost the same here. I have respect for the others, but I do respect myself to trust myself, and I just say what I mean to the ones I care about. For the rest I have some pretty uncomfortable silence. To which they react with agression, respect, fear, gossip, etc relative to their state of being. I can be as tame as the lake on a peaceful sunny day, but I can be pretty fiery, too, and I am still learning patience to bridge the first two.