Artic sea ice animation

[cybervigilante]

This is an incredibly good animation of the shrinking of artic sea ice. It might even convince a denialist. The music is also great - played and composed by the animator, who also used some heavy math here (must be a talented guy :wizard:

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When this is tied to rising oceans, though, it's a red herring. That will be very slow. The real problem is the arctic modifies global weather via ocean currents and the jet stream and as it shrinks, weather becomes more unpredictable. Agriculture depends upon reasonably constant weather. So the problem is not drowning, but starving.

Although with the millions in hidden money and blowhard radio hosts denying arctic melting that is plainly visible, nothing may be done until it's too late.

One Phd candidate who follows this even predicts a total polar meltdown this year. That might be premature but I'd say within 3 to 5 years, especially as methane is released from the permafrost.

A slightly more conservative estimate by Professor Peter Wadhams of Cambridge, a world-renowned expert on the subject, is the ice will disappear within four years, leading to a "global disaster":
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/sep/17/arctic-collapse-sea-ice

[Fred Steeves]

Hi cybervigilante. That's a cute little video chart, kind of reminds me of Al Gore's infamous hockey stick graph. Needless to say it's not even *near* in convincing this "denialist", as the U.N.'s Agenda 21 is our snake in the grass here, not methane or the air (CO2) we exhale from our lungs.

By the way, welcome to Avalon! :wave:

[norman]

And.........

there's a big difference between denying that anything is wrong, and arguing against the 'man made climate change' lobby.

It's obvious that something unusual is happening to the climate. It's far from obvious that the things they blame it on are the real reason.

The whole of the solar system is going through 'climate change' these days too.

Even if Earth climate is changing in isolation from the rest of the solar system, there are a few stones to turn over before we can say we've got all the facts to work with.

There's all the chemtrailing to consider.

There's HAARP to think about.

A rise in average temperature, especially in the oceans, would produce a rise in CO2. It's not a certainty that CO2 has pushed up the temperature. It might well be the other way around.

Anyway, with all this CO2 in the air, all the plant life on the planet should soon be growing like hot house tomatoes.

[cybervigilante]

Yes, it's fun to continue hating on Al Gore, but this is based on hard scientific data, satellite reconnaissance, and photos of broken ice. As we speak an arctic cyclone is tearing up what is left of it. Emotionalism does not trump hard science even if radio blowhards think otherwise.

About the data: Sea Ice Volume is calculated using the Pan-Arctic Ice Ocean Modeling and Assimilation System (PIOMAS, Zhang and Rothrock, 2003) developed at APL/PSC.
Source data for this graph is available from http://psc.apl.washington.edu/wordpress/research/projects/arctic-sea-ice-volume-anomaly/

I don't intend to debate this. It's happening, period. Talking is not going to solve the problem. Although geoengineering has blowback and unforeseen consequences. Arguing about the cause is unproductive. Throwing up our hands and saying it's solar cycles or god-knows-what-else is also just giving up. That is an excuse, not an attempt to solve the problem. As far as I know, the human race doesn't give up and shouldn't. But as long as we say there is No problem when a melting arctic is staring us in the face, that's giving up. Playing blame games is also giving up.

[norman]

Just suppose......

There's a LOT of OIL under the Arctic.

What's happening to the climate, ticks a lot of boxes for 'you know who'.

[Sunny-side-up]

Wel for what ever reason we are losing the Arctic and one of the first large mammals to go will be the Polar Bear!
From Wikipedia

The word Arctic comes from the Greek ἀρκτικός (arktikos), "near the Bear, northern"[6] and that from the word ἄρκτος (arktos), meaning bear.[7] The name refers either to the constellation Ursa Major, the "Great Bear", which is prominent in the northern portion of the celestial sphere, or to the constellation Ursa Minor, the "Little Bear", which contains Polaris, the Pole Star, also known as the North Star.[8]
Climate

Not long after the polar bear will be us if were not careful! or most of us at any rate, which will make the PTB very happy any way...

[cybervigilante]

"Is no why, is just how." --Yoda

There was a time years ago when we could debate if this was happening and why and who or what was to blame. Or how wrong Al Gore was. But that time has passed. Scientists predicted we might see signs in 50 years. But they were wrong. Satellite data shows the arctic is breaking up right now. Forget rosy ideas of a shorter shipping route. The arctic affects global weather patterns very heavily and we are already seeing crazy weather. So it's not global warming or sea-level rise, which I agree is further off, but immediate changes in weather. This is not something to debate about - it is something to now Do about.

This is not a major interest of mine. I'm more into nonduality. I posted it because it's backed by really hard data and satellite observations, so it's a matter for action, not debate. That action might be personal, a la storing food, or global, a la geoengineering. Since few of us have an impact on major decisions, I guess buying a bit more canned food than we use every week, so it builds up over time, wouldn't be a bad idea. Heck, that's a good idea even for normal events, like a big hurricane.

[norman]

Perhaps it's not too late to try moving the polar bears down to the other pole.

I hear there's plenty of ice down there.

[norman]

"Is no why, is just how." --Yoda

There was a time years ago when we could debate if this was happening and why and who or what was to blame. Or how wrong Al Gore was. But that time has passed. Scientists predicted we might see signs in 50 years. But they were wrong. Satellite data shows the arctic is breaking up right now. Forget rosy ideas of a shorter shipping route. The arctic affects global weather patterns very heavily and we are already seeing crazy weather. So it's not global warming or sea-level rise, which I agree is further off, but immediate changes in weather. This is not something to debate about - it is something to now Do about.

This is not a major interest of mine. I'm more into nonduality. I posted it because it's backed by really hard data and satellite observations, so it's a matter for action, not debate. That action might be personal, a la storing food, or global, a la geoengineering. Since few of us have an impact on major decisions, I guess buying a bit more canned food than we use every week, so it builds up over time, wouldn't be a bad idea. Heck, that's a good idea even for normal events, like a big hurricane.

I'm not disagreeing with what you are presenting. I'm just suggesting it's not as simple as they'd have believe. If the cabal are doing this on purpose for whatever reason, there's nothing we can do with our energy cost escalators or cycleways or whatever that will make a damned bit of difference until we can get rid of the cabal or at least make them stop doing it.

[sirdipswitch]

The Arctic is solid ice, with no land mass up there. If it all melts how much do they say the ocean will rise?

Rise?? UH, hang on there just bit buckwheat. If all that ice melts, the water will go down. Not up.

Water expands when it freezes. Fill a glass with ice, then fill it with water, right to the brim, and when the ice melts, the water leval will go down. Not up. Same thing happens in the ocean.

Guess it don't take much scare mongerin, to get folks thinkin backwards, eh??

Hi!!
cybervigilante....... welcome aboard!! We do have fun at times round here also!!

Kick back and ENJOY, it's a great ride, ain't it???!!! :wizard:

[Vitalux]

Hi cybervigilante. That's a cute little video chart, kind of reminds me of Al Gore's infamous hockey stick graph. Needless to say it's not even *near* in convincing this "denialist", as the U.N.'s Agenda 21 is our snake in the grass here, not methane or the air (CO2) we exhale from our lungs.

By the way, welcome to Avalon! :wave:


You have a wonderful way of attracting my admiration.
I just have to gain your ability to use tact.

[thunder24]

but hes always talking about snakes in grass....

Hi cybervigilante. That's a cute little video chart, kind of reminds me of Al Gore's infamous hockey stick graph. Needless to say it's not even *near* in convincing this "denialist", as the U.N.'s Agenda 21 is our snake in the grass here, not methane or the air (CO2) we exhale from our lungs.

By the way, welcome to Avalon! :wave:


You have a wonderful way of attracting my admiration.
I just have to gain your ability to use tact.

[Ellisa]

norman- We live on a shared planet-- so what makes you think there is 'plenty' of ice in the Antarctic? Of course there is still ice- probably there always will be, but it is melting off the ice shelfs in huge chunks. They call it calving. Oddly it is mainly on one side of the continent. Last year some of the enormous chunks made it to New Zealand before it finally melted. The Antarctic, unlike the Arctic, is a continent and has land underneath some of its ice, so that would account for the difference in melt rate.

[cybervigilante]

BTW, why are you bringing has-been politicians into this, anyway? The data is the data. The satellite observations are the satellite observations. the Naval ice measurement are the naval ice measurements. Has nothing at all to do with Al Gore. The Northern icecap is about gone. That is incontrovertible. The only discussion is what effect this will have, bad or good, and if bad, how to ameliorate it. Let's bring this up to a higher level. I was done with politics long ago.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

The Antarctic is another story. The major point is the Arctic has the greatest effect on Northern hemisphere weather patterns, where most of us live. This has nothing to do with rising sea levels, or even global warming, per se. I don't care if aliens are melting the North Polar ice. It's melting. Period. Almost gone.

[cybervigilante]

At present the only thing a private person can do is set by a store of food, since Arctic meltdown will have an adverse effect on agriculture. Otherwise, meditate, pray, hope for the best.

[cybervigilante]

Actually, it's a lot more than polar bears. It goes from caribou to arctic foxes. We're just a bit blind to how much life proliferates, and the MSM only shows the polar bears ;)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2013/08/01/science-arctic-sea-ice-wildlife.html

[thunder24]

there was a thread started about indoor farms... aquaponics and aquaculture... all is not lost, and yes it seems like the sky is falling... but not so fast.... http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21429-Calling-all-Billionaires---


At present the only thing a private person can do is set by a store of food, since Arctic meltdown will have an adverse effect on agriculture. Otherwise, meditate, pray, hope for the best.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

The Arctic is solid ice, with no land mass up there. If it all melts how much do they say the ocean will rise?

Rise?? UH, hang on there just bit buckwheat. If all that ice melts, the water will go down. Not up.

Water expands when it freezes. Fill a glass with ice, then fill it with water, right to the brim, and when the ice melts, the water leval will go down. Not up. Same thing happens in the ocean.

Guess it don't take much scare mongerin, to get folks thinkin backwards, eh??

Hi!!
cybervigilante....... welcome aboard!! We do have fun at times round here also!!

Kick back and ENJOY, it's a great ride, ain't it???!!! :wizard:

Perhaps a better model is to stack ice cubes as high as one can on top of a dinner plate (simulated frozen sea ice, landmass not required). As the ice cubes melt, the water will run off the plate (raising the ocean level).

[Alan]

OK, the Arctic ice is shrinking. So what? You seem to be implying that because the ice is shrinking therefore humans are causing it?? Makes no sense.

Look at some looong term climate/temperature charts. It's been a LOT hotter than it is now and a lot cooler. CO2 has been a lot higher. The higher CO2 levels seem to be causing the deserts to shrink (look it up). From a planetary life perspective, warmer is MUCH better than cooler.

Climate change is natural, species come and go as a result. Mentioning polar bears does not help in any way to explain WHY the Arctic ice is melting, it's simply a ploy to tug at people's emotions rather than have them think.

[Another1]

Nice to see distinction made between actual climate changes and what the controllers want us to believe about us evil bad useless eaters causing it all ... they made the money running coal plants without scrubbers, they made the money while fighting our environmental activists sounding alarms ... they got tired of our rules in America and went to other countries, bought out the politicians and made even more money, poisoning land, sea and air everywhere they went ... now, they try creating carbon credits to trade and sell the rights to continue raping our planet, keep playing the game longer ... and of course, blaming the common folks struggling for their daily bread ... damn useless eaters, always in the way /puk

[Alan]

Here's a one minute video that will help put things in perspective:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFbUVBYIPlI

[Alan]

The IPCC admits there was been no warming in the past 17 years -- so why is the Arctic melting??

http://canadianawareness.org/2013/02/ipcc-head-rajendra-pachauri-acknowledges-17-year-stall-in-global-warming/

[TargeT]

Here's a one minute video that will help put things in perspective:

DFbUVBYIPlI

Much better data presented in this video, thanks alamojo.

This brings up the truth of the matter, EVERYTHING IS CYCLIC.

Change is the only constant (and even that change can change... perhaps we are in a bit of a warmer period.. but that's a really GOOD thing!).

Melting ice caps will not adversely effect agriculture, rising C02 levels, warmer climates (if that's even the case, we haven't "warmed" in a while) & more storms (aka, rain.. the life blood of agriculture) will cause new more growth, more plant life, more life in general...