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View Full Version : Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopia



Dennis Leahy
13th August 2013, 20:51
Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopian society. (I think we will find quite different versions, and it might even surprise us.)

Later, I want to tie this together with yet another thread, using this as a basis. I hope that as many as possible will ponder this for a little while (especially if you have never taken the time to do this), and will offer their own vision/version of utopia.

Please write your vision before you read other people's vision of utopia (and later, if reading others' visions does influence what you write, then add an additional post or mark a clear "{edit}" at the bottom of your post where you modify/expand.)

(in case you need help to get started)


What would utopia be like?
How would you spend your day today, next month, next year?
What would you expect your interactions with strangers to be like?
What (if anything) would you solely own and what (if anything) would have no ownership (either shared among all or be "off-limits"/preserved)
What would be done (if anything) for any sort of negativity or malevolent behavior that might arise in this utopian society (such as someone obsessively lusting over someone else's mate.)


Thanks in advance for your active participation.

Dennis

p.s. I'll write mine offline, then paste it in - but I'll wait for a few days...

donk
13th August 2013, 21:13
In my utopia, the concept of "ownership" is as foreign to the people as it was to the natives when the white man brought it to America....no one would want to own anything.

Interactions would be truthful. Negative = untrue, selfish. My utopia would only include beings that get their energy in service to others, anyone with the desire to put up images or lies, wanna be better than anyone else, covet things or people or control...these types would not feel welcome.

Free (& even not free) time would be spent sharing realities, and working toward understanding any conflicts. Emotional maturity would be the only requirement, and those that resist (your "negative") would be removed--only after all attempts to enlighten them to our way have failed--forcibly, if they required it.

Any force (or god-forbid violence) is taking responsibility for the shared reality. "Negative" beings are parasites/predators to my society and need to be dealt with accordingly. If they have the ability to reason, it should never come to that.

meeradas
13th August 2013, 21:45
Everyone in constant conscious communion,
always 100% in tune with the highest, in total awe of and
with ev'rythinggg seen for what it is - let it unfold from there.
My utopia.

Lifebringer
13th August 2013, 22:26
My idea of Utopia. First of all what is a Utopia? If it's about idealic times of prosperity, then allow me to project.

All the oceans, rivers and streams in pristine clean and well plenished stocks of edible fish. Rolling lush lands of ecological genius, that restores the lands to fertile growable lands again. Fruit trees planted in urban areas, so no one goes without fruits throughout the day or night. Communities coming together and turning the arid properties into green self sustaining dome homes that are hard to be moved by tornadoes. Homes back far enough from the shore, to allow others to enjoy the water to swim, without private property signs, forbidding people from cooling off. I see vehicles that run on methane gas to burn it up, as it's seeping now from the ocean's floor bottom, because the oceans have warmed substantially. I see Colleges and Universities opening their doors to all who come, and professors welcoming all that would care to learn the latest in technology, history, science. History only to NOT repeat mistakes. Vehicles that fly, and arrive to destinations without burning a fossil fuel, but electro-magnetic energy fields produced by the engine. I see the masters walking among us to guide us, in repairing and advancing our world in peace. I see bartering between nations for exotic fruits, veggies, and herbs from different regions, and turning desert areas into oasis lands for growing or rearing sheep or goats or cows. I see the African Animals being corralled into various areas if they are dangerous, and fenced off from villages, yet have a water source that keeps them in the areas. I see many villages that had huts, being fitted with dome homes with cemented foundations, and waterproof windows, for the flood season when the waters are racing through them. An abundance of food, music, education, technology, friendship and peace. A sharing of caring and solutions between nations with volunteers, that will travel and teach. I would like to go to the continents where the soils are rotted out from over cropping and chemicals. I would set them right, with my soil rejuvenation recipe, and turn that foul soil, into sweet smelling black healthy earth for crops and farms.

I could do it now, but I would need the finances to do the composting 100 acres at a time and I would use the returning felons to teach, train them in it, so they always have a job, and get plenty of fresh air. The veggies and fruits or livestock can go to workers also to feed their families and during harvest time, all can come to reep life's bounty in every community. Hunger cured.

I see a connection to animals telepathicly, where man and beast as well as nature, can really understand one another, and the repercussions of decisions made behind boardroom doors in the past(learning from the greed mistakes). I see understanding of the full cycles & life of "ALL" plants, life, Earth, and humans finally doing the right thing, with the "POWERS THAT WERE" Permanantly removed from the good loving humans who care about everything they encounter in life, the Universe, The Heavens, and planetary exploration and Genesis ecological participation for having inhabitable atmospheres on other planets for life. There are no boundaries on how far you want to learn, so that the participation in something a soul loves to do for good, can be matched to the job.

I could go on, some of it, is in "Season of the Witnesses" that is on my desktop, waiting for me, to be able to afford Word program and go to Lulu publishing. God I hope it's before winter. Be a lovely book to curl up with during the holidays. Stephen King is my role model.

WhiteFeather
13th August 2013, 22:49
When the technology of man and the law of nature can successfully coexist as one without causing disharmony to each other, then this planet will become wonderfully balanced as it was prior. When i think of a Utopian Earth i think of Jacques Fresco's insight and vision with The Venus Project. This pretty much sums up Utopia on Earth for me. Yep Its time. Mother Earth needs a rest. But if all fails and we pretty much destroy ourselves as a species. Nature will still be here but we wont. Cause the planet has all the time to re-green and restore itself. Its time for Utopia on Earth. We have waited long enough.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zn8MRKOskw

Lefty Dave
14th August 2013, 00:16
Greetings Dennis
Personally ......Peace on earth and good will to all... would be utopia; we'd be too busy greeting and socializing ...for war and barbarities ...we could finally move forward again.
Spiritually ... Utopia must be something like Havona, Heaven , et al, and this is beyond my visualization or comprehension
Physically ....Utopia might be an existence wherein all life existed in its' highest state, lacking in nothing, succeeding in all desire.
Blessings to all above posts for giving this thread life...seems like a neat idea !

end of line

ghostrider
14th August 2013, 00:39
on my island, war , greed, and cars are not allowed ... we live in huts , built by the whole , each has their own with two acres inbetween ... sunset bonfire is required to share the days experiences ... we live on fruit and veggies grown by us ... fishing for meals is permitted every other day ... we have a five mile no planes , no ships without permission zone ... no electricity , no cell phones ... once a week a waterduck lands and brings small supplies as needed ... work for profit for the individual is outlawed ... it must be for the whole ... breaking one of the twelve commandments could result in banishment from the island ... if we cut a tree , we plant two ... watching the sunrise is quiet time , watching the sunset is manditory , and bonfire friendship is encouraged ... work is only done every other day, one hour of work gets two hours of nap time ... all work is stopped at noon ... nature and science study is highly encouraged ... we are working it out together , still have a long way to go, but we never get angry , greedy, or in a hurry , my gilligan's island , no politics, no leader, spiritual matters have total freedom of expression ... guns are forbidden, only what you can make with your own hands ... my island utopia ... tribal , simple , built around nature ...

CD7
14th August 2013, 01:46
PARADISE is built everywhere and not just in select places

FREE food and housing ALL over the globe

EVERYWHERE are planted eatable plants and trees...I mean everywhere

We are ALL cultivated to be who we are and not what society wants us to be

Ok this would be a great start :rolleyes:

DouglasDanger
14th August 2013, 02:03
IMHO
Utopia in an all peacefull loving manor will never exist here, we are not high enough in the vibrational frequencies to be safe from a negative vibrational attack on such a Utopia.
Utopia in an all enslaved "one king to rule them all" will ALSO never exist here, we are not low enough in the vibrational frequencies to be safe from a positive dispersal of such a Utopia.

My utopia is for everyone to stop trying to make heaven on earth or hell on earth, if you want those things go to those places, leave us to exist and experience and exchange all of our interactions with both positive and negative energies, as this is the only place where you can exist and experience both the positive and negative of it all simultaniously without having to change your core vibrational frequency to match that of the vibration of the plane/dimention/existance you are in. ( IMHO)

Dennis Leahy
14th August 2013, 02:15
Thanks to all who have responded! You are all 100% correct! This is YOUR vision, not someone else's, so this is your opinion and that - of course - is always correct. Please feel free to declare YOUR vision.

Keep 'em coming!

Thanks!

Dennis

Wind
14th August 2013, 02:40
I have often dreamed of living in a utopia, but sometimes I wonder if it's just a past life memory from another dimension? Anyways, it's really simple... At least to me.

There would be no need for learning through suffering, but instead we would learn by different ways of loving. Naturally no one would even remember what the word "war" means. There wouldn't be any dis-eases or if there were they would be healed just using certain kinds of energy healing so no one would ever have to suffer for a very long time.

There would be telepathy and we still would have our own minds and we might disagree about things, but there would always be some kind of consensus and there would never be any need for fighting, because it's a kindergarten thing on the cosmic scale. We would have once again learned how to shape matter through thoughts and that would ease everything and no one would be ever again forced to any mundane boring jobs.

Every human being would be doing what they love to do and only our imagination would be the limit. Humans would use incredibly large pyramids as global energy sources and the world would look so beautiful without the poisonous technology that we currently have. There would be natural lighting sources that automatically would dim when we would want to see the stars on the night sky. We could travel safely and quietly with small compact spaceships that would be controlled by using the mind. The world would be filled with lushness, colours and beauty. It would be in every sense a heaven on Earth.

The game of duality would have slowly faded out and we would have realised that we are indeed divine co-creators here on planet Earth. We would once again understand that we are God.

grannyfranny100
14th August 2013, 11:12
I like what lots of people are mentioning but I am dubious of setting up Venus type master planned projects that turn people into mindless robots and prefer small communities where the people set up what works for that group. With enough interact between groups, each group could pick up and adopt ideas from each other. After all, that was always the appeal of visiting other cultures: learning from each other.

I would certainly select a group that avoids the jerk off noise of motorcycles, generators, lawn mowers, snow blowers, blasting stereos, jet planes, machine guns, etc. and prefers the sounds of nature.

naste.de.lumina
14th August 2013, 11:19
Hello Dennis.
Follow my collaboration for their study.
That's my utopian vision for the Earth in general and simplistic (not my vision of paradise).
Its structure social / economic would be based on Libertarian Anarchism.
Individual freedom is the emphasis that society and not authority.
The money does not exist. Everyone has their basic needs met. The work is not required.
You accumulate credits to work on activities for the society.
These credits will give materials privileges against people who do not wish to exercise community activities.
You choose the area you want to work.
Science is to improve the life of society.
With everyone doing their best created plenty eliminates the need to accumulate.
The nature and human development (health and spiritual) are priorities.
Negativity measured by interfering with the free will of others.
Negativity individual is treated with attempted rehabilitation.
Failing that should be excluded from social life (until you find better alternative).
The same concepts are used for any aliens that may eventually come visit us.

Hug.

Star Mariner
14th August 2013, 14:11
I've talked about my own visions for utopia before on other threads, and I'll speak of them again here because it is such an important topic. Important in that thought, desire, intention can and does manifest in your reality. So let's start imagining, and make it happen!

To actually come to grips with the idea of a 'utopia' on earth, it is critical, first, to understand why we do not have it - in fact why we are a million miles from it – why the ‘reality’ that we have resists the reality that we seek. The mess we are in is entirely down to those who created it - the governments, the 'powers that be'. Do not think it is a mistake, either. Everything is done by, and with, design. Consider first of all, religion.

The spiritual scales of 'awareness', for Humanity at this time, are tilted towards the largely 'ignorant'. The greater majority of the world's population are total novices in this regard. But they are not purposefully narrow-minded. It is not their fault. It's the fault of all religious institutions. For 2,000 years churches have failed to properly administer the teachings that they were charged to communicate, and instil. The masses are merely victims (as we all are in one way or another) of an 'aspiritual' system. So many are oppressed or left in want. Trying to survive, pay the bills, feed their children from one day to the next, has become the predominant occupation.

For so many there is hardly the time available in today’s manic society to turn their thoughts to the mysteries of spirituality, to 'God', this 'external force' that may or may not even be there (in their minds). And for all that they have been taught by religion this is a force to fear, or at least revere, for they are unworthy of it. The religious institutions that are in place to instruct, teach, inspire, and spread love, are at best stale, antiquated, and steeped so much in ‘tradition’, that they have become more like 'businesses', commercial enterprises. At worst, thoroughly self-serving, and corrupt. Small wonder then that so many do not turn to God, for the spiritual establishments on earth are completely untrustworthy, as well as totally inadequate and distorted, for they have been manipulated from the beginning.

This is one of the stratagems of those 'Powers that Be' again, which sponsor and license these institutions. And it is exactly how they want things to be; it is exactly why they even ‘allow’ religion in the first place. Because it serves the function they want. These authorities do not want an ethical, peaceful, and spiritually aware population to preside over, for how then would they sustain their agenda to oppress us, enslave us, keep us in fear; how then, if we all knew God, loved God, and loved each other, could they possibly justify their ridiculous wars?

On the macro-scale, religion, in various shapes and organizations, was set up to fail from the start. At some point along the path the ‘true way’ was knowingly infiltrated. It has been distorted by ego, and suppressed by materialism… The blame lies with the ruling elite and their social engineering, on capitalism, governments, and monarchies - on all of the above: these Powers that Be.

So for Utopia to arrive, I still think that the greater majority of us – which are still good, honest, hard-working people, need first an introduction to the reality of their Divine nature and the spiritual forces in the world – in the universe. The bigger picture. But this will never happen, not for the ignorant masses of which I speak, unless every single political, social and religious institution is torn down, gutted out, and thoroughly reformed. At least in how they currently function. Sorry if that sounds a tad radical, because I know such establishments are cherished by so many. But if they are not, the next 2,000 years will not be any different than the last 2,000. Oppression. Fear. Violence. War. Everything needs to change, or there will be no end to it.

Now let us turn to the authorities, to ‘government’, those that pull the strings of power. Any potential Utopia rests with them. They are the ones who make things happen (or not happen), so they play the critical role in formulating social, political, and economic policy for our paradigm, as well as basically setting an example for us all. Unfortunately, with the way that things are at present, those in power or who seek power, are afflicted by a particularly virulent disease, from the beginning of their careers to the end (because the system is set up to engender that, and feed off that). I speak of 'ambition'.

‘Ambition’ is the mechanism by which these governing people are lifted to their lofty heights. It’s what propelled them to where they are. First and foremost their ambition was, and is, to elevate/enhance their own personal self, situation and ego (and bank account). To exert power and dominion from above, rather than suffer under it from below. Any initial ideal that they may have had in the beginning to benefit the rest of humanity is swiftly forgotten as they are sucked further and further into the trap. It is said that power corrupts (absolute power corrupting absolutely). It is so true. For behold, we see the result of what has been created by this ‘faulty system’: governments with materialists, hedonists and egomaniacs at their heart.

Governments who care nothing for actual peace or prosperity (war is more profitable), and strive only to maintain the status quo, the world paradigm, driven with a hard, metallic, military/industrial heartbeat, a very unfair market economy, and their carefully crafted hierarchical pyramid of power. And ’God’… only as a token point of interest, a control mechanism for the little people (us) to fall back on. Spiritual progression means nothing to them, because, let's speak the truth here, there is not a senior, influential, political man or women in the world - exerting actual power over us from a high seat of authority - who actually, truly holds spirituality in their hearts. *Ego/Ambition* and *God*, are as oil and water. They cannot exist together in the same space. That is the root of all our troubles.

The hierarchical pyramid of power I mentioned… So many do not realise it, but the pyramids of ancient times are still being built for the Pharaohs. Khufu, Rameses, etc, they are all long gone, but only in name. They have merely been replaced. The all-seeing eye shines still brightly at the apex of the pyramid, and us slaves still toil at the bottom to hold the whole thing up. The old order, the old empires, they did not perish. They endure, with a new name and in a new guise, hiding behind a veil of ‘political correctness’, which holds that we live in a free, evolved, and democratic system. We do not.

Many do not see this, do not recognise this. They have been hoodwinked into believing that all is just and well with the ‘system’, and those above us are doing their best. The ancient tenets of the Roman Empire dictates: "the people anxiously hope for just two things: bread and circuses", and “give them bread and circuses and they will never revolt”. We get our bread, today a borderline minimum wage for a long week of labour at the base of the pyramid, and we get our diversions/circuses: Pop idol/X-Factor, the nightly trash that fills our television screens. And even though so many exist in want, in debt, living only from paycheck to paycheck, they are actually made to feel lucky, lucky! They forget to question, and they forget to revolt, or just to think “hey, there can be a better way”. They stay asleep, they forget to love, and they forget God. They are swayed into believing that the only God that matters is green, square, and made to sit snugly in their wallet.

As I said, the godless who rule over us is the root of everything that’s messed up in the world. People have been lured into a false sense of gratitude for all that they have, and that they are ‘in good hands’. They do not understand that they are an under-class, that free energy and hidden technologies could feed the hungry, relieve the sick, liberate us all from financial bondage, and completely transform this world. Because of religious distortion and segregation they are made to forget the notion of Unity, that we are All One, and that we are all beautiful, powerful, Divine Beings incarnate in the flesh, and that our potential is limited only by our imagination.

They do not know that we could all live in harmony, peace, and love, together and as one, in a world determined not by pure profit but by love - that innovation and the free distribution of repressed sciences and technologies could give us all free power, free food, free water, free everything, and that to pay our way and keep civilization going our 5 day working week need only be a 3 day week, or a 2 or a 1; that the power structures of the world could not only be transparent, but symmetrical, meaning a role in government and authority should be rotational - dealt out equally to us all to participate in, which conversely could go hand in hand with occasional humble, unskilled work as well, for us all, so that egos are kept in balance and no one individual or individuals hold permanent monopolies of power.

With such a system in place across industry and the market place; with technology handling the brunt of menial tasks, our free-time would be tripled, quadrupled, or more. Perhaps 10 months of the year would be our own to pursue our personal interests, to better ourselves – to better humanity, to forge closer bonds to our fellow human beings and to clean up this planet, and perhaps most of all, to attend to spiritual studies, and to grow closer to God, and our friends out there in the Universe that are waiting for us to climb out of the spiritual crib in which we've been confined. This is the Utopia I speak of, and think about, and pray for. This is the Utopia that could be… in fact just the beginning of Utopia, merely the beginning foundation for what could be a marvellous and incredible future 'out there', for Humankind.

WhiteFeather
14th August 2013, 14:52
I often pondered thoughts and have heard ET visitation story's by abductees, that our advanced civilized celestial friends live this way on a daily basis collectively. Re: Alex Colliers mention of The Andromedan's and The Law of Consistency,,,excerpt below. Perhaps someday, Earth will exist as such. I can envision this.

By Alex Collier: The Andromedan people teach their children everything. The oldest and the wisest are the teachers, and hold nothing back from their children. Those with the most experience teach others what they know. This is called by them the Law of Consistency. They know that their children are their legacy. They don’t “dumb them down” like the educational system here does. They would never ever think to do that, because they are proud of their lineage and their heritage.

Everything that they create technologically is used for the advancement of their race. It is for educational purposes only. But, it can be used in defense. No, they do not have a military, per se, they are scientists. What they do is send their children to school anywhere from 150 to 200 years, in our linear time.

They teach their students all of the arts and sciences. They are literally masters at everything. Then, at that point, they have the choice in what it is they want to do, and they can change their minds anytime and do something else. So, they are given all the tools. Everything is for education. Nothing is for distraction. They would never conceive of creating television as a distraction. Never.

Everything is to help them evolve, and their science and their technology can be used for defensive purposes — mostly the holographic stuff.

The most significant feature of the Andromedans is that they are instrumental in the Andromeda Council which is a grouping of approximately 140 star systems who deliberate upon Earth.

ceetee9
14th August 2013, 16:50
It would consist of a multi-verse filled with loving, caring, compassionate, sharing, responsible, non-controlling, non-judgmental, non-possessive, free-spirited, benevolent, sentient beings.

There would be no rulers, governments, classes, money, borders, division, wars, violence, or hatred and there would be only one guiding principle or Prime Directive: Do No Harm. (Of course, if we had a multi-verse filled with beings as stated above, this would be obvious and not even needed to be stated.)

This Utopia would enable everyone to go wherever they wanted, whenever they wanted, and to do whatever they desired to do within the bounds of the guiding principle. This implies that everyone has a responsibility to help take care of themselves and each other. If there is a shortage of resources (e.g., food, water, or shelter) everyone’s first obligation is to contribute in whatever way they can to help provide those resources (i.e., do no harm is not just applicable to direct actions, but inactions as well).

To help ensure that all people have an adequate understanding of their options in life and their responsibilities to themselves and others, everyone would be educated to a level that provided them with a good understanding of the world and their role in it. During this time they would be evaluated for their strengths and weaknesses and guided (not forced) in directions that would help them to decide what role(s) they would like to pursue for optimum happiness, expression, and benefit to society. Once they are able to make this informed decision on their own they may choose to continue their education in whatever direction and to whatever level they desire, or they may opt to end their education and begin contributing to society in whatever capacity their educational level afforded them.

Although the Earth has a finite amount of land and resources that belong to it and not mankind, we live on Earth and require a certain amount of those resources to survive. Consequently, those resources must be monitored and managed with care and compassion for all life that requires them. People would no longer “own” their land, but would have “use of” the land as long as they live or desire to live on the land. Large parcels of land would only be available to farmers and other entities that require large amounts of land as long as it benefits all.

Since there would be no money businesses would no longer function for profit, but for producing useful products and services for society and the environment. Therefore, focus would be redirected toward producing the highest quality, longest lasting, best products and services possible. Intellect would be freed from pursuing greedy, self-centered, environmentally destructive purposes to pursuing benevolent, altruistic and environmentally responsible purposes.

There is so much to discuss on this topic that it would take volumes to adequately address it so I think I will just close by answering Dennis’ questions:

1. What would utopia be like?
It would be Heaven on Earth. I think my opening statement sums it up pretty well.

2. How would you spend your day today, next month, next year?
I would spend the time I wasn’t contributing to society writing music, playing with as many musicians as I could, exploring my many scientific, paranormal, and UFO interests, exploring the planet and its cultures (and others if I was able), and, of course, enjoying time with family and friends.

3. What would you expect your interactions with strangers to be like?
Like meeting an old friend that I hadn’t seen in a long time.

4. What (if anything) would you solely own and what (if anything) would have no ownership (either shared among all or be "off-limits"/preserved)?
I would own nothing, but have the use of many things that provided a comfortable, fulfilling, and peaceful existence for my family and myself.

5. What would be done (if anything) for any sort of negativity or malevolent behavior that might arise in this utopian society (such as someone obsessively lusting over someone else's mate.)
It would depend on the malevolent behavior. If someone committed cold-blooded murder, they would be given the choice of having that trait removed from their brain (assuming that could be done) or they would be banished to an isolated area with their own kind and take their chances at survival.
If they lusted after my mate and my mate reciprocated, I would hope that I could overcome the “possessive” mentality that we’ve been programmed to have and be happy that another found my mate attractive and could make her happy. Barring that, I’d have to cut off his … just kidding. ;)

Bubu
14th August 2013, 23:11
No properties no boundaries no limit no fear no police no government no control no rules no sorrow no questions





What would utopia be like?
How would you spend your day today, next month, next year?
What would you expect your interactions with strangers to be like?
What (if anything) would you solely own and what (if anything) would have no ownership (either shared among all or be "off-limits"/preserved)
What would be done (if anything) for any sort of negativity or malevolent behavior that might arise in this utopian society (such as someone obsessively lusting over someone else's mate.)


Thanks in advance for your active participation.

Dennis

p.s. I'll write mine offline, then paste it in - but I'll wait for a few days...


I am a fan of jackie fresco

Sammy
15th August 2013, 01:11
My utopia is like my home world. See, on my home world long, long ago was discovered that the vast majority of women would rather make love than war. Strangely, my home world became dominated by the female species. In fact, before I was exiled, the ratio was about 10,000 women to one man. In fact, all the men (like me) lived on an island. It was quite a lovely island as we experienced a constant influx of "Man Island Adventure Vacationers" (yes, the females from my home world) who would visit and well, uhummm... enjoy the wild life on our lovely Man island. Most of the guys were happy with this for their entire lives and well, no one ever tried to escape until I did. My sentence was to be banned to Earth and here I am stuck in some lousy reincarnative loop.

I miss my home, my utopia... but at least I was able to discover Colombia!

Just being honest and well, someone asked. (Please, don't ban me!)

Craig
15th August 2013, 02:21
to be free of the meat suit and attain form of pure energy, go anywhere at any when and to know the feelings of pure love and contentment.

simple really!

[edit] or when I used to come home from work and my baby daughter was excited to see me and made me feel that the day was actually worth it instead of the cool indifference of the teenage years

Ellisa
15th August 2013, 02:27
My Utopia would have one rule, and that is---- Treat others as you would like them to treat you. This would allow for a lot of variation to cater for all ideas--- but within the frame-work of not upsetting or harming others. Surely we all want to be treated fairly and without coercion or disparagement, as otherwise we would be treated "as we treated others".

ulli
15th August 2013, 03:51
In my utopía there would be no generation gap.

norman
15th August 2013, 05:12
ok, I jumped to here without reading much at all.

My utopia is to expand my five senses way up and out into 'infinity', and to be allowed to indulge myself in all of it to my heart's content.


edit post:

I have a sneaky suspicion that in part 2 you are going to suggest ( or try to persuade - you are good at that stuff ) that we've already got what we seek.

apokalypse
15th August 2013, 05:56
a true Utopia must require people to be spiritual being and responsibility, in utopia society there's no Money or Values for the things/it ...some people said trade barter is best system to replace money but trade barter still have some sort of value put into place so the system able to work. on utopia everything is Love, you do it for love not just for the sake of it or to obtain the stuff/things.

Alex Collier Andromedia et's that he contact with comes to mind when i think of Utopia...these the system that advance civilization on outer space live on a society we called Utopia might work for them but might not work for us.

Rahkyt
15th August 2013, 06:35
UTOPIA:

1 - an imaginary and indefinitely remote place

2 - a place of ideal perfection especially in laws, government, and social conditions


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teSH2mgbnJE

Ideals only exist in the imagination. Imagination is the gateway to Creation. Utopia, in my conception, then, is a space of co-creation oscillating in resonance with a coherent system of collective harmonics. Such a system, vibrating at the same rate, then resonates in tune with its natural environment. The ideal then becomes the manifest and imagination the expression of unlimited potentiality.

Such a system would of course by primarily inhabited by people who have the capacity to engage in this co-creation. Non-resonant souls could not even begin to conceptualize and engage the collective in the group-environmental collaboration.

Bringing it down to material reality, such a society must invariably consist of individuals of all capacities and orientations. Since that is inevitable, a utopian society that fits this model already exists. We're in it.

It is the world, where human law provides the background coding within which individual ethics interact, providing each with the ability to live lives according to their choices. We live under the auspices of collective paradigms but retain free-will choice. We cannot individually determine the expression of our paradigms, but, within them, we are able to consciously determine our paths. As our understandings increase, we gain the ability to employ imagination in the manifestation of our ideals and our perceptive reality grows increasingly resonant to our natural environment.

Our company becomes selectively sympathetic to our own vibratory rates. our environment becomes selectively sympathetic to our own vibratory rates. Through time and across space, the contextual situation of our lives reflect our mental and spiritual evolution. At all instances, our lived experience reflects our current state of being. Each environment is perfect for where we are.

As we change within, our worlds change without. Our ideals become our lived reality. Our imaginations manifest. The remote becomes the local and our self and group governance, as lived individually not as conceived distantly, reflects who we are in the Now moment of our experience.

Put simply, there's nothing in the world I would change. It is perfect as it is.

GloriousPoetry
15th August 2013, 07:02
We would always speak and act from the language of the heart.......

In the language of spirit gifts reveal themselves in subtle meaning speaking of things that are beyond this material world of seeing, everything begins to emanate from a higher source of spiritual meeting where all is weaved into divine feeling, creation expands itself inside the sound that resonates in our true being, the body's love in its proper fitting to manifest from the heart's higher beaming

araucaria
15th August 2013, 08:02
The film La Belle Verte offers a picture of how a rather less dysfunctional society than our own might operate:
oveforlife.com.au/content/09/01/01/movie-green-beautiful-la-belle-verte-really-rare-awakening-movie-now-available-engl (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/oveforlife.com.au/content/09/01/01/movie-green-beautiful-la-belle-verte-really-rare-awakening-movie-now-available-engl)

Spartacus
15th August 2013, 09:19
An energy system in which every being is free to create their own reality. An energy system that operates under one simple law of 'like attracts like'. An energy system that responds to focussed thought and manifests the essence of each being's vibrational/emotional proclivity - whether that proclivity is consciously chosen or not. An energy system that produces unlimited contrast and choice - whether choice is deliberately exercised or not. An energy system that can manifest anything imagined.

"See this world as a free world, and see everyone in it as trying through their individual experiences to find their way back to that calling, back to that Source Energy. And even though there are billions of them going about it in a way that is different than you would choose, there's no right or wrong way. In other words, bless them all, and get on with the only thing you have any power about, which is opening or closing your vortex to your natural state of Well-Being."

---Abraham

apokalypse
15th August 2013, 10:59
i got a question for you guys, we all know what Utopia will be like but what kind of job will stay and be gone? let say the world is collapse tomorrow no more TPTB control the world, what Jobs will stay or gone during transition to utopia society from now till we reach the goal and especially once we reach the goal of living in Utopia society.

few jobs will be gone forever when i think of it is Marketing-Entertainment sector-Private sector(Businesses/Corporations). i can see the 2 not only will stay forever but it will expand is Engineering and especially Education Sector. Alex Collier spot on regarding teachers, Sports stars or movie stars earn so much money and have high respect for doing irrelevant stuff to society while teachers treat completely opposite...

Sierra
15th August 2013, 20:45
Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopian society. (I think we will find quite different versions, and it might even surprise us.

Please write your vision [I]before you read other people's vision of utopia.

Oookay, not reading anything except the first post as I start :)

When I first saw your thread title I flashed/visioned a scene. It was people getting ready for a festival/feast. Kids were shrieking, scrambling away from mothers getting them dressed lol. I was looking at the front of a house, wooden, ornately carved, lovely deck, and stairs leading down to a family fire pit and circle in front. People wore white linen, and leather, beautiful with some kind of colorful decoration too hard to describe. In the mountains... Green green healthy trees.

I felt no scarcity, no shame, no lack of love.

Everybody's bodies looked SO healthy and beautiful!

I had the feeling of nomad culture, as if this was summertime living, and wintertime living was elsewhere.

People, young and old were so excited about the festival, I wondered what it was about...

Yes, I know, people will probably get grossed out at wearing leather, just reporting what I saw. :)

Carmen
16th August 2013, 00:09
My utopia would be the "shire" with more old growth forest. All people and animals in one harmonious balance. People living close to the land and being able to commune with nature, learning from her and nurturing her. The people would also have realised their divine heritage and would have naturally unfolded their divine abilities ie teleporting, mind to mind communication and complete freedom of expression and movement. Spiritual maturity having superseded any need for laws of any kind.

karamba
16th August 2013, 08:40
My Utopia- is a beautiful, vibrant Mother Earth full of Love , Peace and Joy! Hummanity is evolved in to Fantastic Creators, from the "Higher Heart"!All Children of the Earth are respected!

"There is only the understanding of the thing that needs to be taught to every child on the planet, and that is the knowledge that every single individual on this planet is already powerful as he or she needs to be to create any reality desired, without having to hurt yourself, or anyone else, to get it. That’s how powerful you are".- BASHAR
Peace in the Hearts, Creativity from the Heart, Compassion, Solidarity with Brothers and Sisters from others Planets!
And so it Be!

karamba
16th August 2013, 08:44
Beautiful thread thank you!
Bless you all Avalonian!

Iceberg
16th August 2013, 09:35
Great thread Dennis.

I don't want to think as my personal utopia but more like an evolution step. I imagine evolved beings were technology will be fully replaced with spirituality. If we have to coexist with technology it mean that we are far from evolution. Other thing is balancing inner and outer that means that we can live in harmony with ourself, other beings , nature and all surrounding and live in a benevolent place were knowledge is shared.

araucaria
16th August 2013, 09:49
Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopian society. (I think we will find quite different versions, and it might even surprise us.

Please write your vision [I]before you read other people's vision of utopia.

Oookay, not reading anything except the first post as I start :)

When I first saw your thread title I flashed/visioned a scene. It was people getting ready for a festival/feast. Kids were shrieking, scrambling away from mothers getting them dressed lol. I was looking at the front of a house, wooden, ornately carved, lovely deck, and stairs leading down to a family fire pit and circle in front. People wore white linen, and leather, beautiful with some kind of colorful decoration too hard to describe. In the mountains... Green green healthy trees.

I felt no scarcity, no shame, no lack of love.

Everybody's bodies looked SO healthy and beautiful!

I had the feeling of nomad culture, as if this was summertime living, and wintertime living was elsewhere.

People, young and old were so excited about the festival, I wondered what it was about...

Yes, I know, people will probably get grossed out at wearing leather, just reporting what I saw. :)
Sierra, this sounds rather like the opening scene in The Green Beautiful I mentioned in post #23 :)

Soda
16th August 2013, 10:36
to be free of the meat suit and attain form of pure energy, go anywhere at any when and to know the feelings of pure love and contentment.

simple really!

[edit] or when I used to come home from work and my baby daughter was excited to see me and made me feel that the day was actually worth it instead of the cool indifference of the teenage years
Thank you for reminding me to enjoy my 5 year old's enthusiasm every minute of every day.

Dennis Leahy
16th August 2013, 15:34
Thanks for the responses. I'm really hoping to get more. This topic is for everyone. Everyone has an idea of what they want to happen here on Earth, what they are fighting for, or what they are working towards, or what they are aligning their intentions with.

Please go back to the original post and see that I'm asking for your concept of an idealized existence here on Earth, humanity and all creatures and Gaia, rather than a purely spiritual "utopia" that might be what Dr. Michael Newton is exposing through his thousands of hynotherapy subjects. I want to know what you want, your vision, your version of the best Earth life we could create for ourselves. (Some are right on track, some have slipped a bit into the pure spirit realm.)

The thing about someone lusting after your mate was poorly worded. If my mate walks away with you...well, not much of a mate. I was thinking about the kinds of crime that might still be committed even in a world where everyone has enough or lives in abundance. I suspect rape might still occur (a lot less, but some), and wondered how you would want some situation like that to be handled.

Thanks to those who have responded, and I'm hoping to see Bill, Ilie and Paul, and all the mods weighing in, all of the Avalon members thathave been regular interactive participants, and all of those members who generally sit back and just read. This is all opinion. Yours is not just valid, it is correct.

Dennis

ulli
16th August 2013, 16:16
I started to write a post earlier in the week, about my utopia not having a generation gap,
but believe I was interrupted. I wish I could remember what it was...maybe the long awaited call from my son.
So now I wish I had a better memory. 'Good memory'... goes straight on my utopia list.
Hmm, maybe not....
What often happens with me, when I finally figure out what I DO want, I get it, and my wish comes true.
So I discovered that utopia is actually at hand, believe it or not.

Of course it is not a lasting condition, as nothing that is subjected to change can ever last.
So utopia presents itself in moments of complete fulfillment.

If it stayed stuck there we would soon lose our appreciation of such a state.
The best world is one which still allows for a certain degree of striving, I find.

So when I think hard about it, I just would be content with a world
where the worst issues of today will have been resolved,
such as abject poverty, hunger, abuse of children and animals, crime, war, torture,....
not necessarily in that order.

There would still be some conflicts, as without conflict there could never be a clash between
the old being replaced by newer forms, which is an essential element of growth.
And just as the only constant in life is change, the preferred type of change would mean overall growth,
with periodic cycles of decline, paving the way for new growth.

In the Bahai revelation it states that God created mankind to carry forward an ever-advancing civilization,
one that leads towards refinement.

grannyfranny100
16th August 2013, 17:36
My utopia would include five mates I select for the type of kids we produce. The mates, including some off worlders, could visit occasionally when their male adventures permitted and all five children could learned from each of the dads as well as me and the myriad animals.

Life would not be as crude, primitive and frustrating as it is now; joy would be abundant. Medicine would not be slice and dice or pills that mask but don't cure. And when I was ready to move on from earth, I could have a big champagne departure party. And who knows, if life was less cruel than now, perhaps I would chose to stay and keep growing as an artist, mother, grandmother et al for a lifetime lasting 1000 years.

And oh BTW, my home would have marble floors and flowing, full length draperies and the soft wind would not bring pollen and dust into the house but would frame coastal and mountain views and fill the house with marvelous fragrances. The thermostat could adjust the weather for swimming skiing, etc. The entry would be a "beam me up" portal to visit friends here and off world.

Hope this was a more enjoyable read than all the Pattie Brassard folderol.

Sierra
16th August 2013, 17:51
The film La Belle Verte offers a picture of how a rather less dysfunctional society than our own might operate:
oveforlife.com.au/content/09/01/01/movie-green-beautiful-la-belle-verte-really-rare-awakening-movie-now-available-engl (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/oveforlife.com.au/content/09/01/01/movie-green-beautiful-la-belle-verte-really-rare-awakening-movie-now-available-engl)

araucaria,

I get 404 file not found. :( It might be because I am on my cranky iPhone ...

araucaria
16th August 2013, 17:57
The film La Belle Verte offers a picture of how a rather less dysfunctional society than our own might operate:
oveforlife.com.au/content/09/01/01/movie-green-beautiful-la-belle-verte-really-rare-awakening-movie-now-available-engl (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/oveforlife.com.au/content/09/01/01/movie-green-beautiful-la-belle-verte-really-rare-awakening-movie-now-available-engl)

araucaria,

I get 404 file not found. :( It might be because I am on my cranky iPhone ...

Strange, it doesn't work for me either, although I checked before posting. Try this:
_-yIZNXnd6Y

ulli
16th August 2013, 17:59
My utopia would include five mates I select for the type of kids we produce. The mates, including some off worlders, could visit occasionally when their male adventures permitted and all five children could learned from each of the dads as well as me and the myriad animals.

Life would not be as crude, primitive and frustrating as it is now; joy would be abundant. Medicine would not be slice and dice or pills that mask but don't cure. And when I was ready to move on from earth, I could have a big champagne departure party. And who knows, if life was less cruel than now, perhaps I would chose to stay and keep growing as an artist, mother, grandmother et al for a lifetime lasting 1000 years.

And oh BTW, my home would have marble floors and flowing, full length draperies and the soft wind would not bring pollen and dust into the house but would frame coastal and mountain views and fill the house with marvelous fragrances. The thermostat could adjust the weather for swimming skiing, etc. The entry would be a "beam me up" portal to visit friends here and off world.

Hope this was a more enjoyable read than all the Pattie Brassard folderol.

Very inspiring, thank you.
You reminded me of something....
Now I can also post my dream home vision

http://cdn5.journeyetc.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/mustique-villa.jpg


http://www.brw.com.au/r/2009-2014/BRW/2012/12/11/Photos/b7a32536-4363-11e2-b4d0-3d8607641981_Mustique%20Aerial%201%20copy--700x500.jpg


The island is called Mustique, and my memories of my trips there during the eighties are utopian, and are especially precious now, as the key people I was with are no longer alive. My host Swedish architect Arne Hasselqvist died in a fire in the Bahamas, trying to save his computer which had all of his work on it. His son Lucas died, too, while following his father into the burning house. It was a terrible tragedy, and proof that utopia is still unattainable without a price. Anyway, I am forever grateful to Arne and his wife Anita for giving me a taste of heaven.
I wish for every man woman and child on this planet to experience the exquisite atmosphere that this private island had to offer. Things are different now.

Sierra
16th August 2013, 18:17
The thing about someone lusting after your mate was poorly worded. If my mate walks away with you...well, not much of a mate. I was thinking about the kinds of crime that might still be committed even in a world where everyone has enough or lives in abundance. I suspect rape might still occur (a lot less, but some), and wondered how you would want some situation like that to be handled.

I read somewhere the big difference between now and what is to come is no more war. This alone, should make a huge difference in rape statistics, if men are not trained by institutions that violence is good.

Hopefully parents will have time and love to raise good children into good people...

There is so much raping right now of women and children it is hard not to over react to the subject. Not just raping, but vials of acid, set on fire, torture with rebar etc. ...

How about a temporary tattoo on the forehead, "RAPIST"? How about a one time nano bot injected into rapists for a period of time that a) makes rape not possible, and then b) drops the testosterone level for the duration of the nano bot sentence, to give the guy a chance to think and be counseled without having to deal with raging hormones? End of sentence, nano bot removed, tattoo removed...

Oh yes. Girls in mandatory classes taught to be aware of triggers, situations to avoid, and how to defend one's body in case of violence.

Ick Dennis, creepy subject!

As for mates wandering off... Heh, people grow and change. I don't know. As long as there is freedom, lack of judgement, care for any ensuing progeny, no institutions telling you how it has to be done, classes for children showing the grind of parenthood to give them a more realistic concept of marriage and family... Really. The things that should be taught in school would be entirely different. Instead of little worker slave bees, fully developed human beings resting easily in adulthood and relationships.

Sierra
16th August 2013, 20:36
The film La Belle Verte offers a picture of how a rather less dysfunctional society than our own might operate:
oveforlife.com.au/content/09/01/01/movie-green-beautiful-la-belle-verte-really-rare-awakening-movie-now-available-engl (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/oveforlife.com.au/content/09/01/01/movie-green-beautiful-la-belle-verte-really-rare-awakening-movie-now-available-engl)

araucaria,

I get 404 file not found. :( It might be because I am on my cranky iPhone ...

Strange, it doesn't work for me either, although I checked before posting. Try this:
_-yIZNXnd6Y

Oh my goodness! Let it be so!

Sidney
16th August 2013, 20:36
Beautiful earth, full of trees, pristine lakes and oceans, meadows, and mountains. Humans and creatures alike, will operate on energy from the sun and earth, and not food, so there is no killing. Evolution has taken place as to all species great and small have perfectly balanced populations. This is no pain, or sadness, only harmony and grace, for we all know we are all one. Telepathy is the normal communication. The earth is pure, and unpolluted, and we are in direct contact with our brothers and sisters from the cosmos. Our education consists of knowledge and learning of travel far and beyond, and we can create anything, with nothing but a thought.

Going to throw a wrench in here......:) Our hobby, for self growth and enlightenment, is to find far away planets, full of beings that are in trouble morally, and having trouble with evolutionary process. we go there voluntarily, and willingly participate in their pain and agony, so as to help them figure out a way to better grow and evolve.
It seems, a great and long enduring process, but because we live for thousands of years, it is merely a small fraction of our ultimate experience. When that job is done, we go rest in our Utopian existence, until we are ready for a new and fulfilling assignment.

Fred Steeves
16th August 2013, 21:20
Hey Dennis, it took your question a couple of days to marinate. I had the "feel" for what I thought right off, but the words weren't there to express it without just sounding contrarian. I'm thinking now of the expression we all use generation after generation (especially the older we get): "Those were the good old days". Of course they were *never* that when they were being lived day to day, but with time comes perspective, and of course nostalgia.

I especially liked the final line of Rahkyt's post:


Put simply, there's nothing in the world I would change. It is perfect as it is.

That's pretty much where I'm at, and I wouldn't change one thing either. I'm feeling an ever increasing sacredness about these times we're living in, like it's either the culmination, or a beginning to the culmination of something that we embarked on countless eons ago. I don't know what it is, only that it's something very special, and an experience that we will be eternally grateful for once this chapter is complete.

I always get this mental picture of it being like when the last person leaving goes to turn out the lights, and close the door on a room where a great event has happened. But before doing so, they take one last long look at the now quietness and emptiness, and becoming teary eyed are thinking: "Wow, was that something"...

So yeah, as far as I'm concerned this is it man, couldn't/wouldn't ask for anything more. This is the biggest show in town, and we're smack dab in the middle of it. Exactly where we wanted to be all along.

Cheers Brother, :cheers:

Fred

grannyfranny100
16th August 2013, 22:30
Found this link for the movie with English subtitles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQoNoACFmh0. La Belle Verte was hysterically funny in a silly, charming way as if it were written by some subteen wishing to be old enough to have a driver's license or Hippie holdouts raising grass in northern CA. Why was it banned in Europe and Russia? Do TPTB think people would want to give up bathrooms, beds free of tics and bugs, classical music for silence concerts, as if nothing of contemporary culture or society is worth preserving? It was amusing entertainment for a day in bed with the flu.

karelia
16th August 2013, 22:51
I’m walking through the woodland, noticing how much brighter the colours have become. Pine needles are greener, wild raspberries are redder, and these days it’s not unusual to be greeted by a deer or even a unicorn.

I find a good handful of bright yellow chanterelles, just enough to enjoy in a cream sauce for dinner – perhaps the cow down by the creek will let me have some of her rich milk – and then reach the clearing to check on the Lone Birch Tree. She was there before the Armageddon that wasn’t came down on us, and for a while, when the dark forces were on their last legs, fighting death with all their might, every intention to take as many as possible with them, it was touch and go with the tree. The poor dear stood feet-deep in water for weeks on end, and all I could do was calm her, heal her at best I could where it hurt worst, but she pulled through in the end.

My heart sings when I look at her. She wasn’t young when I met her a few years ago, but now she stands at least ten feet higher, strong as an oak tree, and yet delicate as only a birch can look with brighter green, smaller leaves, her branches proudly showing off white patches through the luscious growth summer brought along.

A few sheep feed on the succulent grass that covers the entire copse, even the path running on the side connecting one end of the village with the other. I wonder if they’d be willing to part with a bit of wool – their fleece is positively luminous – and before I even finish the thought, two of them wander towards me. I stroke each one, revelling in the incandescence of their wool, and find wool in and on my hands. “Thank you,” I say. What a wondrous life it is, I think before my focus turns to the gift. The sheep wander off again, and I hear the invite of the Lone Birch Tree, so I sit down on the soft ground and rest my back against her stem while pondering what the wool will become after I spin it. Perhaps a scarf; it certainly is soft enough for comfort.

I lean more into the tree and let my thoughts wander, still enjoying the feel of the soft wool in my hands. How far we have come in such a short time! A year ago, everything reeked of doom and gloom, and everyone probably thought at one point or another we’re all going to die. And then suddenly, star seeds all over the world remembered their mission. It was as if a button had been switched.

From then on, the dark didn’t stand a chance. We worked ourselves to exhaustion quite frequently, but there were always a few who had enough energy left to share, and within a few months, Gaia recovered and presented herself in full glory. The world healed at a pace that made the gods and goddesses proud.

There are still a few dark spots around, but they are healing, too, and shrink a little every day. The grid that was imposed over Gaia to stop spiritual development is gone completely, and the not-so-spiritual people who survived – thankfully there weren’t many casualties – focus less and less on the material and more and more on the spiritual. I still get together with my dearest friends and heal where healing is needed, and we are all content in a way we could never have imagined, even though we’ve always focused on living in joy.

A slight breeze reminds me that I should perhaps think of returning home. Little Man promised to play the flute for me, and I’m looking forward to it.

When I rise from the ground, I look at my hands and realise they’ve spun up the fleece into a fine yarn. Perfect for a scarf.

Ernie Nemeth
16th August 2013, 22:56
I used to think I knew what I wanted to see in a utopian society but the more I have thought about it the more I realize I am in no position to say. I don't know what such a world and society would look like, not in the slightest. The more I explore this topic the more I think life in the body is not life at all. Life is what we have between incarnations, this body imprisonment with its attendant selective amnesia is the perfect recipe for misunderstanding and violence. Only at the pinacle of its evolution could a utopia exist with beings entrapped in bodies. Until then we have only the prospect of some less violent somewhat more understanding society. It is not that such a society cannot exist or even that we cannot attain such a society. It is that we cannot understand or foresee what such a society would look like except in the most fundamental terms because such a society has, as far as we are aware, never existed before. All its tenets, its science, its objectives, its institutions would be completely foreign to us, totally beyond our ability to conceptualize it in any detail.

In my perfect world there is no top-down structure to authority. All matters are decided by consensus or left alone, no compromise is allowed. In my perfect world there is no such thing as "poor" or "starving" or "sick" or "war". In my perfect world no one is ever told what to do or what not to do, neither are they sanctioned, punished, fined or incarcerated for any reason at any time. In my perfect world there would be work for only one purpose, for the betterment of all mankind and all life on the planet. Everything else would be considered play. People would choose their work according to their own talents and interests; they would naturally feel fulfilled, useful and appreciated. Everyone would generally lead happy lives - and have joyful deaths.

Overall, an individual in such a society would take responsibility for their own actions, their own emotions and their true motivations. It would be an age of creativity the world, afawk (as far as we know), has never seen before.

I'd like to come visit that world one day. But just a visit. My true utopia lies beyond the material, far beyond the fumbling missteps of material beings and their ilk. I hope humanity makes it to that state one day. We are worth the effort. And it's the only game in town.

MariaDine
16th August 2013, 23:07
We all know that Utopia is often referred to as the “Perfect World” where there are perfect laws and people live in complete harmony without any problems. A PARADISE....

I think that the Paradise is a state of consciousness.... a state of being, of mind, of feeling... inside of oneself, not outside ....

............ many people are the opinion, that something is really sleeping inside of us and when it awakes, then we become what we have actually been all the time, but we haven't known it - we become ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIPg4_qVO7k

Selene
16th August 2013, 23:32
One of the wisest people I ever knew once said:



“There are some people who, in the midst of hell, can create their own personal paradise. And others whom, in the midst of paradise, are still in hell….”


Great topic, Dennis.

Cheers,

Selene

Bill Ryan
16th August 2013, 23:52
-------

I was there once, and it has been mythologized as Shambhala. The real name was Shang-Shung (http://www.ssi-austria.at/ssi-engl/kyunglung-intro-engl.htm), in western Tibet: even now it is extremely hard to get to. Here is a photo of the ruins:

http://projectavalon.net/Shangshung.jpg

http://projectavalon.net/Shangshung_map.jpg

I was there for four lifetimes, in the AD 820-975 period. It was a beautiful, idyllic community of peace, study, meditation and learning. The little paradise -- which was famous for a thousand miles around -- eventually fell into dereliction through natural climate change, when the rains failed.

It gradually became desertified, and in the end nothing would grow there any more. The apricot trees withered, and the barley fields became dust bowls. When the goats and yaks started to give birth to stillborn, because they were so dehydrated, we took that as a sign, and very reluctantly left for good.

The loss was hard for us to understand or accept, but we knew it meant that the seat of learning would spread further as we went our different ways for different reasons.

Other communities were re-founded elsewhere, but nothing matched it. It was a sacred place, and these are not so easily cloned. I have some very vivid memories of those times, and it fully deserved its place in Tibetan legend.

Of course, the exact same thing has happened 1000 years later, as Tibet itself became ruined -- only for its timeless heritage to re-emerge and be sustained elsewhere in the world, for the benefit of all.

Selene
17th August 2013, 01:19
Wow, Bill. What an extraordinary memory. I wish mine were as specific in that place.

My fondest and most respectful pranams,

Selene

grannyfranny100
17th August 2013, 01:41
Perhaps you are recreating that in Ecuador....

Rosieposie
17th August 2013, 05:18
Hehe nice reading everyone's version of Utopia. Perhaps what we really want is just a space (aka our dear Earth) where we have the freedom to create without control influences.

All I want is our planet to be healthy and thriving with life. For people to be their own authentic selves without manipulative play on them, for us as a race to live with a philosophy of kindness, intelligence and wisdom. And from that, true abundance can spring and let all the different utopias spring and all the beautiful creations and cultures unfold so we can explore and grow as a whole via our individuality :).

For me it's all about my family, and connection with the world, plants, animals etc. So long as I have time each day with my plants and animals, cuddles from my beautiful daughter and hubby, well I already feel like I'm in heaven! Every day there is so many awesome projects and things to do that I have no hope of doing them all but that's not the point, and some day's are just meant for cuddling on the couch and that's awesome too. The biggest thing to overcome is our own damaging thought processes, once that is done all there is is love :)

I think we have to find our inner Utopia first and through its healing we become free and can begin to create our own Utopia on Earth :).

Christine
17th August 2013, 14:29
Thank you Dennis for putting this question forward, I shied away from answering it at first and then did the opposite of what you proposed as I read from the last post back to the first only to discover that we were meant to post before reading! ☺

----------

My vision is long held… it is now, past and future all together. Utopia is right here in this one moment that contains all.. .. but this deserves a more full answer than just the above, for these simple words though they contain great truth have been over used without being understood.

We are utopia, it is not a place outside of us in some mystical world of long ago or some fantastical world of the future. It is us, here and now and in this moment. Our cosmic memory is returning and soon we shall know this and then heaven will be on earth.

We shall not be separated any longer from our Truth. And when the Truth becomes the Living Truth it will manifest in our reality. This hasn’t been a path of ease and leisure but of painstaking hard work, the fruits of which are only limited by what we allow our utopia to be.

In this world I see a translucent light in everything. Life is once again held sacred and honored in all things, the plants, the rocks, the waters, the animals and our fellow beings. Harmony is our own communion with our brothers and sisters, telepathic communication is reestablished so that men and women are free to be transparent, for fear has been vanquished and compassion rules our hearts.

We are free creative Beings of the highest order and our resonance reaches to the furthest limits of space and time….

Limor Wolf
17th August 2013, 14:51
In the realms of pure Harmony which resides somewhere way high over the rainbow, and where the call to come and help planet "Terra" echoed decades ago ,are now gatherd and collected a large group of light energy beings to watch with great satisfaction and with overly joy on the most perfect transformation ever made on any of the third dimensional planets in the physical world section of the vast creation. The challenge was virtually inaccessible, or so it felt. From a dense swamp like point of location in the physical universe, where it was apparent that the light is getting dimmer and darker, untill the concern arose that the entire galaxy will shut down, a strong flux of light is now radiating and return some sparkle rays back to the sun.

It was anything but easy, the planet of 'free will' was one of the most complex experiments ever done by the planners of stars, galaxies, solar systems and paralle universes with all varieties of different forms of life stretched as far as the imagination can go.
Something else needed to be created that will challenge all creations done up till then. The starting point was kinda limited, but the recipe included all potential ingredients that could form the wonderful heaven like expensive paradise that is the true essence of the 'all there is' and which characterizes the higher realms existences. Intention was to translate the frequencies of pure and higher energies into the density of the physical.

Starting conditions included amnesia and some genetic manipulation without revealing the knowledge of the great creative and most important tool in all of the universes - free flowing energy. Take that from the beings and see how they manage... and let some other players from similiar created places with slightly better advancment intervene and by that let all physical beings grow together each in their own pace. The unknown situation of disharmony was investigated and researched thoroughly inside and out. But now, thanks to the resolute insistence of the creators of the game and their faith in the ability of the souls participating in the game to remember who they are and where they came from - the perfect reversal has occurred. It began with the revelation of free energy. It is the essence that every living soul, plants, inanimate ,spirits, cells, atoms, and much everything else in all realms is consisted of. However, In the 3D physical dense world of Terra it needed to be captured by devices, first. The process of understanding was slow and was tried and failed many times, but now the type of energy expressed in the form of consciousness has spread on this precious planet due to the reinforcement of the game with some of the creators rushing in to save their invention and experience it first hand and with some other technitians who came to assist with support.

In the pure world of harmony, far over the rainbow, the energy beings gathered and are ready to zoom in and see what has become of the beloved Terra. They themselves have no names, no physical forms and almost no individuality, they all consist of light and only a slight difference between the energy signatures that separates one form from the other, but they own a distinctive connectedness that originates from the knowledge of UNITY which is the essence of their beings.

Terra - old but new, is now a remarkable sight. Zooming in on it's location in the milky way galaxy, it's aura is a healthy radiating indigo blue, a rich color that is viewable from afar. Taking a closer look, the rugged plains and mountains can clearly be seen covered with rich coating of green vegetation. The most apparent change easily discernible to all the senses is the clean atmosphere srrounding the earth, the belt of metaphysical and physical 'dirt' has vanished, as if it was never there and instead there's a rich mixture of oxygen and CO2 due to the lush greenery and the accelerated photosynthesis process. The beings obviously look more healthy, this is evident in their body movement and their intense joy of life. There are many visitors at this time, coming with their crafts from all over, from the far out galaxies as well as from the neighboring planets such as Venus and Mars. Entry conditions to the earth's atmosphere are a certain level of consciousness and an expression of unity, and if you are qaulified to that, you are most welcome to stay and be an honored guest, so as not to upset the delicate balance and the free will of the residents who earned this via a lot of hardship. Telepathic communication can produce funny situations, especially if you are an energy being without a body, you may very well be ignored at times, no hard feelings please, it may take some time for the inhabitants to fully develope all their abilities. Their small family size crafts are often painted with the logo colors of the earth, a symbol of patriotism and a belonging to a one place. This too shall pass. In the meantime the rich biological diversity of the terrain very well makes up for any small inconvniences of this new 'free energy found and implamented' planet of rookies ;)

Re-education is the most important activity on the planet, it is up to every living soul to decide where they want to be in their growth, no pressure, but many exhibit excess enthusiasm and want to dedicate their free time to move forward, mentally, technologically and spiritually. Part of the process is having long meaningful conversations with the animals and with plant life, a big ceremony of appology was conducted and now a new way of cooperation is being formed. Trees have a rather interesting symbiosis with one another, they create intimacy through their roots, under ground, regardless of type, thickness, and the specification of every tree. It is now the inhabitant's pleasure to learn about being part of the versatile echo system. The full recovery of Terra was so successful that some new species are now developing due to the harmonious vibe of the planet, some new species of fish, insects and mammals are naturally being created. Crystal clear oceans, Azur blue in color allow a clear view down to the bottom of the sea, miles and miles in distance, because of the purity of the water and because of the enhanced vision of the residents resulted from their very fine diet.
The obvious affection between the fruit-bearing trees and shrubs and between humans produces rich fruit flavors with Intoxicating scent.

Elected officials invest their time, energy, and enjoyment in improving the living conditions of the entire population, whether they are walking on two, on four or crawling on their bellies, with the understanding that the development of one will encourage the development of the other. The new sciences are emerging at an alarming rate, and the use of levitation in construction is quite beneficial to form new lovely structures, also to disassemble whatever remained left from the old cities, as long as it's done with a group effort. A slight amusment is happening with the attempts to levitate the bodies and more often then none, men find themselves sitting in the lap of another man in a wrong calculation of the distance or in a too weak of an effort. humans of the new earth greet and treat eachother in a loving and respectful manner, it is true that small arguments may revolve around the need to rain at noon time as opposed to at around night time, but a satisfactory compromise is usually achieved where rain is rained down according to the region and while one is being watered for 30 minutes to nurture the lush green vegetation, the other is 'showered' with warm and embracing sun, therefore, everyone can chose their pick.

The energy beings from the realms of pure harmony, far over the rainbow, are observing with satisfaction what's been done on the renewable planet - the beloved Terra, 'The poor toddlers' they think,' they still have a way to go, but their path has finally been found. this segment of evolution has now ended. There are always new experiences and discoveries waiting around the corner. But for us it is off to the next mission ~

Sammy
17th August 2013, 17:45
On a serious note - my ideal utopia would be a world where all the folks were as close to 100% honest with themselves as they possibly could be.

It is my theory that if we all did that, the world we experience would always remain a true utopia.

gripreaper
17th August 2013, 18:32
Well, I want to expand my ego to the size of Texas, and satiate my carnal desires to maximum pleasure, so Utopia would include:

This mansion:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/61/The_Manor%2C_Holmby_Hills%2C_Los_Angeles%2C_in_200 8.jpg/800px-The_Manor%2C_Holmby_Hills%2C_Los_Angeles%2C_in_200 8.jpg
A stable of very expensive exotic cars:
http://i0006.photobucket.com/albums/0006/pbhomepage/cars/cars.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/pbhomepage/media/cars/cars.jpg.html)
A harem of exotic gorgeous women at my beck and call:
http://www.worldwideinterweb.com/media/k2/items/cache/09661fddd44609e123a27762f72b3a0e_XL.jpg
A smorgasbord of exotic foods in front of me at all times:
http://media01.stockfood.com/wmpreviews/MTQzMjc5NDg3/11021499.jpg
Oh, and the biggest yacht:
http://cache.desktopnexus.com/thumbnails/61576-bigthumbnail.jpg
My own private jet:
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100716005327/mafiawars/images/4/42/Private_jet_gulfstream_sm8u_dpuu.jpg
and BILLIONS of dollars:
http://s.spynet.ru/uploads/images/0/5/1/4/0/2/2010/07/05/1838fa.jpg

That should do it. :)

CD7
17th August 2013, 19:06
Well, I want to expand my ego to the size of Texas, and satiate my carnal desires to maximum pleasure, so Utopia would include:

This mansion:
-------
A stable of very expensive exotic cars:
-------
A harem of exotic gorgeous women at my beck and call:
-------
A smorgasbord of exotic foods in front of me at all times:
-------
Oh, and the biggest yacht:
-------
My own private jet:
-------
and BILLIONS of dollars:
-------

That should do it. :)



Well shiit on a stick!! YOU are so in luck gripreaper CUZ GUESS WHT?...all the lovely shiit you want is already HERE............................................UG

Christine
17th August 2013, 19:10
Hey Avalon did you know that gripreaper has invited us to party at his mansion!

It's the Rainbow Bridge dance it to the stars party!

http://www.debrecensun.hu/media/2013/06/06-parties-for-friday-7-june/party.jpg

:focus: Hi, Dennis just having fun in utopia.

christian
17th August 2013, 19:30
I just want to live with people that have a genuine desire to become aware, grow, and live in harmony. It's that simple.

As for the transition phase, this is maybe the best video I have found on that. How to bring about the change? Also adresses the question of "what political system is the best" with a very interesting answer. Did you know about the Iroquois Federation?

8Zq4f6WYmHU
In other words, utopia is not a fixed la-la-land, but a state of being, the dynamics of a society. Even if there would be a destroyed and shattered surrounding, when all the people there would be focused on building themselves and their environment up, that would be my utopia.

Sammy
17th August 2013, 20:28
Well, I want to expand my ego to the size of Texas, and satiate my carnal desires to maximum pleasure, so Utopia would include:

This mansion:
------
A stable of very expensive exotic cars:
-------
A harem of exotic gorgeous women at my beck and call:
-------
A smorgasbord of exotic foods in front of me at all times:
-------
Oh, and the biggest yacht:
-------
and BILLIONS of dollars:
------

That should do it. :)



Well shiit on a stick!! YOU are so in luck gripreaper CUZ GUESS WHT?...all the lovely shiit you want is already HERE............................................UG

I would be happy with just the harem. Ooops I AM Happy!

Paul
18th August 2013, 00:56
The film La Belle Verte offers a picture of how a rather less dysfunctional society than our own might operate:
oveforlife.com.au/content/09/01/01/movie-green-beautiful-la-belle-verte-really-rare-awakening-movie-now-available-engl (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/oveforlife.com.au/content/09/01/01/movie-green-beautiful-la-belle-verte-really-rare-awakening-movie-now-available-engl)
The URL you posted:


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/oveforlife.com.au/content/09/01/01/movie-green-beautiful-la-belle-verte-really-rare-awakening-movie-now-available-engl
The URL you apparently intended:


http://loveforlife.com.au/content/09/01/01/movie-green-beautiful-la-belle-verte-really-rare-awakening-movie-now-available-engl

The intended URL as an active link, for your viewing pleasure: Movie: The Green Beautiful - "La Belle Verte" - Really Rare Awakening Movie Now Available In English - 1 Hour 30 Minutes (http://loveforlife.com.au/content/09/01/01/movie-green-beautiful-la-belle-verte-really-rare-awakening-movie-now-available-engl).

Paul
18th August 2013, 01:03
The intended URL as an active link, for your viewing pleasure: Movie: The Green Beautiful - "La Belle Verte" - Really Rare Awakening Movie Now Available In English - 1 Hour 30 Minutes (http://loveforlife.com.au/content/09/01/01/movie-green-beautiful-la-belle-verte-really-rare-awakening-movie-now-available-engl).
Ah - now that I've glanced at what this is - I remember seeing it before.

It is a really, really, wonderful movie. Please do see it!

Dennis Leahy
18th August 2013, 14:07
OK, Let's let Gripreaper's tongue-in-cheek response represent a percentage of the population who are so unevolved that the furthest they can think in a discussion of a utopian Earth is self-gratification (material goods and even possessing a 'harem', indicating an exploitative, sociopathic "use" of women as sex toys.)

It is a caricature, but I'm sure it does express the real "utopian vision" of a percentage of humans.

Looking forward to Gripreaper's sincere vision, as it could not be much further from the one he posted.

That post of his does put a magnifying glass on one of the bullet points of info that I had hoped each person would think about and post their ideas on:



What (if anything) would you solely own and what (if anything) would have no ownership (either shared among all or be "off-limits"/preserved)

The answer to this question should be honest, straightforward, and off the top of your head. The answer to this question is one of the reasons I started the thread, and is a strong hint of another thread (yet to be started) that analyzes the contents of this one.

Come one, come all... everyone from the newest member to the oldest, from the prolific posters to those who mainly read. Membership at Avalon is not just for reading (anyone can read - you don't need to be a member to read), and this is a topic that should be very easy to be interactive - it is simply expressing your opinion as opinion. What are your hopes and dreams for Earth and humanity while on Earth? A few people feel that Earth, the way humanity interacts with the Earth, and the way humanity interacts with humanity (including the most nefarious, most selfish, most warlike, most exploitative, most heinous behaviors such as torture and murder) is perfect - don't change a thing. Most others would request or create changes if they could. If you feel that anything is "out-of-whack", then use it to help you describe your vision of utopian living on Earth.

Thanks!

Dennis

skippy
18th August 2013, 14:49
Coincidentia Oppositorum - Unity of Opposites

-- "When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female female; .. then will you enter [the Kingdom]."

Gospel of Thomas - 22

CD7
18th August 2013, 15:11
•What (if anything) would you solely own and what (if anything) would have no ownership (either shared among all or be "off-limits"/preserved)


I would say you would solely own your own space, the vehicle you commandeer ...aside from this ALL resources species are not owned....shepherded but not owned

Imagine the entire globe was One enormous house....the architects that design the most beneficial way for space to make sense and work in multiple ways are a gift. All who live in such a house, live in harmony. If anyones seen a house transformed into a 'heavenly' place and not only looks glorious but works/functions harmoniously on MULITPLE levels---they can somewhat invision wht im saying

its a great thing to see the possibilities materialized... especially if beforehand the house looked like a mangy shack, decrepit and falling apart with no vision seen as to its potential afterwards

So in considering this House to be everyone's... "ownership" really isn't apart of it...instead how to make this House work and thrive in the best way possible would be the focused goal

jiminii
18th August 2013, 15:16
We had all this before we came to this planet few billion years ago. A couple of us can get creating on a planet. We can put a lot of bodies there and have them creating anything we want, harems, gold, you name it we could create it in. And we'd get playing these games on a planet, "from the spirit", and create a bunch of armies and send them off to fight the other spirit beings armies and one of us would create viruses to go make the other beings armies sick .. OH YES ... we could create it all, and then we'd just get bored with it and run off somewhere else leave the planet with whatever we put there.

So what you see is on this planet. Don't know if you can call that Utopia if you can just create anything you want out of nothing but all the things you can dream of having living as a body with this body think?????? Well, to be myself again all powerful and out there making what ever games I decide to, maybe that would be Utopia.

But you see I have Utopia right now on this planet. One of the MOST DIFFICULT GAMES TO PLAY BEING TRAPPED IN THE CREATION ITSELF.

You know I wouldn't change it for the world. I did more things from NOT KNOWING ANYTHING that I somehow managed to revive and did what most people on the planet would say is literally impossible, (not impossible up there being a creator), and I win. I also lose, but out of it all I can feel the life source and beingness in it's worse condition but it's OK ... I think I should go back to USA and live with the Indians if they will have me. That would be my last BIG WIN.

Dennis Leahy
18th August 2013, 15:41
I'd like to ask a mod to leave gripreaper's original post with images, but to *snip* the images from Chester's and Jim's and CD7's replies - and ask that no one quote that cluster of images back again. Four! sets of those images (so far) is derailing the thread. I am also assuming that Chester (justoneman), though he may have a powerful libido, would not really want to exploit/own/control women. Not all of our members have read enough of Chester's words to know this, so I'm making a fuss out of it to also keep that from derailing the thread. As I said in my previous post, the response that Gripreaper posted is not his own, is is a parody (for him) and I don't think there are any members at Avalon that could honestly say it describes their vision. One parody response in the thread is plenty, so let's move ahead with sincere responses.

Thanks,

Dennis

ulli
18th August 2013, 15:44
I'd just like to point out the reality behind those images, which we have seen ad nauseam now....the girl on that beach would never have a clue how to get along with the staff of that mansion, that yacht, that private plane....nor the owner, for that matter.
But grip knows that already. The devil is in the maintenance...no utopia there


Edit: I just saw that Dennis had a similar reaction to mine. I wonder who else?

ulli
18th August 2013, 15:48
I'd like to ask a mod to leave gripreaper's original post with images, but to *snip* the images from Chester's and Jim's replies - and ask that no one quote that cluster of images back again. Three sets of those images (so far) is derailing the thread. I am also assuming that Chester (justoneman), though he may have a powerful libido, would not really want to exploit/own/control women. Not all of our members have read enough of Chester's words to know this, so I'm making a fuss out of it to also keep that from derailing the thread. As I said in my previous post, the response that Gripreaper posted is not his own, is is a parody (for him) and I don't think there are any members at Avalon that could honestly say it describes their vision. One parody response in the thread is plenty, so let's move ahead with sincere responses.

Thanks,

Dennis


Thanks, Dennis, for standing up for your utopian vision here.
In my utopia there would be no vulgarity, and sex would remain a private matter,
one of mutual consent.

gripreaper
18th August 2013, 15:50
The question of ownership is at the very core of manifestation. Even the elite controllers know that everything is about trusts. They set up the original Cestui Que trusts in the 1600's and the energy of these trusts are still in play. They know that they own nothing and we should too.

What we do have, is the ability to create, as Jiminni states above, based on energy and our abilities to generate and focus it towards manifestation. So, what we create in our reality, the hologram we live in, is our highest and best creation based on where we are and how evolved we are. This reality changes as we change.

So, the intention of what this utopia would look like, is already within us, and we hold this idea as we descend from source into further density, and we are returning to this utopia as we learn to hold individuated consciousness in a body.

To me, it looks like an etheric energy body fully enlivened, the entire rainbow bridge of all the aspects of the pure light of consciousness, unified and held in physicality, with empathy and compassion for those who are still playing the game of duality.

In a nutshell, it's love personified.

jiminii
18th August 2013, 15:57
I'd like to ask a mod to leave gripreaper's original post with images, but to *snip* the images from Chester's and Jim's and CD7's replies - and ask that no one quote that cluster of images back again. Four! sets of those images (so far) is derailing the thread. I am also assuming that Chester (justoneman), though he may have a powerful libido, would not really want to exploit/own/control women. Not all of our members have read enough of Chester's words to know this, so I'm making a fuss out of it to also keep that from derailing the thread. As I said in my previous post, the response that Gripreaper posted is not his own, is is a parody (for him) and I don't think there are any members at Avalon that could honestly say it describes their vision. One parody response in the thread is plenty, so let's move ahead with sincere responses.

Thanks,

Dennis

GOT Ya I SNIPPED IT MYSELF

JIM

Delight
18th August 2013, 17:00
What (if anything) would you solely own and what (if anything) would have no ownership (either shared among all or be "off-limits"/preserved)

The answer to this question should be honest, straightforward, and off the top of your head. The answer to this question is one of the reasons I started the thread, and is a strong hint of another thread (yet to be started) that analyzes the contents of this one.


Hi Dennis. Thanks for your thread. I found your request for a description of vision of Utopia coming up several times after I read and so you are definitely spreading the thoughtfulness on the question.....

This one statement above as a ground is right on for me.

I want access to anything and ownership of nothing. Owning is an ordeal. Through my experience I have seen how hoarding anything leads to weight.

Wanting access to tools and being thwarted to access leads to false ties to " slavery to job, holding on to past due relationships, the ordeal of daily dealing with maintenance of "stuff" that is not then useful (but might be sometime...so lets hold on to everything in case).

I am sure that I do not want to give up being able to have the lifestyle that brings me experiences I like. But it would be no sweat to share everything.

I live in a rural area with all kinds of people who have very little to lots of stuff and this particular "neediness" is overwhelming. "Poor" people just don't have. "Rich" people are locked into paranoia of losing.

Examples of enlightened stuff missing here, no public transportation, public baths, commercial kitchens, coffee houses. The library is under funded.

In fact I really believe IF we could all have the opportunity to satiate the play with stuff, we would soon realize how we want something even more satisfying.

One other aspect of Utopia as I see it for me... is the relationship of me as a Human to animals. I maintain a household at the moment of two dogs, 7 chickens, 7 cats. They do not travel well. The dogs would like that but Humans "out in the world" segregate dogs.

The "utopian" pictures that show big city plans for Humans don't seem to have animals. And I'd also like to interact with wilderness and wild life. When I mean that, I mena "communicatively" and as in being friends.

I'd love to be in a position to interact with all kinds of "domestic" animals... cows, goats, horses, llamas, alpaca, sheep, birds of all TOO. These persons all need care. I cannot do that alone. But this is the expectation.

I'd be poor material for a community based on ideation. I want my own space. A yurt with a community house might work. People banding together out of utility so we could all enjoy more freedom qould be excellent. There would be a necessary willingness to put all the group members efforts in and be fair.

Also, I totally believe that we have the capacity for 360 degree senses and bilocation, teleportation, instant creation.... Yes, the woowoo. But I always believed this is the case.
My Utopia is all dedicated to using these skills. And one other skill and aspect of my Utopia...no need to eat and able to take energy direct from source. We could have fruit trees and milk and no need to grow anything.

When I FIRST (3rd grade) heard about the "primitive Native Americans", I knew that they were way more advanced than we. They found so much satisfaction with no stuff. It was obvious that they didn't need it. They no doubt had a way of seeing into the world that was so rich and so skilled and so Intelligent that they enjoyed making selected art to use and were so light they were able to walk on leaves without making a sound.

Being an ORIGINAL Human in a community of ORIGINAL Humans enjoying being alive is Utopia to me. Our relationship to stuff (how much we need and who may use it?) is a jump off place. In the maturing through exposure to stuff, We need less and less. As we focus on less and less naturally (BECAUSE we were satisfied to the hilt with the weight of it) WE ARE more and more.

Yes, I think to have it all available and let everyone use everything freely but maintain the stuff communally is a big step to ending up in Utopia.

Thanks, Maggie

Christine
18th August 2013, 17:19
Images are snipped, I had the same reaction so was happy to comply. :)


I'd like to ask a mod to leave gripreaper's original post with images, but to *snip* the images from Chester's and Jim's and CD7's replies - and ask that no one quote that cluster of images back again. Four! sets of those images (so far) is derailing the thread. I am also assuming that Chester (justoneman), though he may have a powerful libido, would not really want to exploit/own/control women. Not all of our members have read enough of Chester's words to know this, so I'm making a fuss out of it to also keep that from derailing the thread. As I said in my previous post, the response that Gripreaper posted is not his own, is is a parody (for him) and I don't think there are any members at Avalon that could honestly say it describes their vision. One parody response in the thread is plenty, so let's move ahead with sincere responses.

Thanks,

Dennis

jiminii
19th August 2013, 02:22
-------

I was there once, and it has been mythologized as Shambhala. The real name was Shang-Shung (http://www.ssi-austria.at/ssi-engl/kyunglung-intro-engl.htm), in western Tibet: even now it is extremely hard to get to. Here is a photo of the ruins:

http://projectavalon.net/Shangshung.jpg

http://projectavalon.net/Shangshung_map.jpg

I was there for four lifetimes, in the AD 820-975 period. It was a beautiful, idyllic community of peace, study, meditation and learning. The little paradise -- which was famous for a thousand miles around -- eventually fell into dereliction through natural climate change, when the rains failed.

It gradually became desertified, and in the end nothing would grow there any more. The apricot trees withered, and the barley fields became dust bowls. When the goats and yaks started to give birth to stillborn, because they were so dehydrated, we took that as a sign, and very reluctantly left for good.

The loss was hard for us to understand or accept, but we knew it meant that the seat of learning would spread further as we went our different ways for different reasons.

Other communities were re-founded elsewhere, but nothing matched it. It was a sacred place, and these are not so easily cloned. I have some very vivid memories of those times, and it fully deserved its place in Tibetan legend.

Of course, the exact same thing has happened 1000 years later, as Tibet itself became ruined -- only for its timeless heritage to re-emerge and be sustained elsewhere in the world, for the benefit of all.

I remember Tibet too ... i just don't remember what part I was in. The patola palace looks so familiar but then Where was I during that time???

I've wanted to get back to Tibet but not sure where.

jim

Delight
19th August 2013, 03:56
Bill is pointing out a place near a familiar area for me.
Seriously, I have a great affinity for this part of the world.

I went to someone doing regression and imagined a significant lifetime. I recall it as if it was a myth.
I identified this general area and then found it because I knew home bordered the silk road.
.
This "lifetime" story made me interested in the general region where the Caucasion Mummies were found on the outskirts of the Tarim Basin.
The story wasn't happy and describes a feeling of deep disillusionment with myself and disappointment in my choices.
This related to the topic of Utopia because I believe there was a Utopic lifestyle that I was itching to escape. It was insular. I can still feel the strong desires I recalled in the regression.

In that story I imagine a homeland on the edges of a desert near mountains.
I can imagine a stepped plain and grassland and many waterfalls and caves.
We were pastoral and traders but had a home.
The home was stone filled with rugs and very clean and sophisticated.
We had all the comforts of warmth and gracious living.
It was an insular community.

In my imagination, I can feel how much I craved to know more AND SEE THE WORLD.
We were sort of like "pickers" who brought regional goods to a city.
We made a trip several times a year on horseback to the markets.
I can feel a longing to get away.

In the story I was self involved, arrogant, kind of abrasive.
I left my wife and family to seek "knowledge"
At the end I felt failure even though I had my wish and saw a lot and learned a lot.
I had left home and now I would never see that home place or my family again.
The nostalgia I feel for that home and my family stuck.

Loneliness, disappointment and disillusionment were emotions in the story.
These difficult tendencies or negative qualities are hard ones to break now.
In that life I imagine, I had chosen to leave but dearly wished to die in my bed with family around me.

I was in a dark place, hungry and dying, cold, dirty and had pain and sores. It was bitter.
I knew that I was responsible and there because of all the choices I had ever made.
I was doubting in myself as if the life was wasted.

If I were home, my body would be honored and I could be buried with my wife.
This end would have my body and my bones dispersed.

In the dreamy life end review, I sent a message to my daughter she would "hear".
It was the last thing I did and took all my energy.
The knowing I had is that we were always in contact like psychic letters passed.

I knew she would understand everything and know how much I regretted.
She would be able to tell the others.
This gave me some peace and I died.

If I had it all to do over again, I bet I'd leave home. I feel I would do that even if I knew the end. It was such a yearning life....to leave, to be unable to return....
In this life I still have these inexplicable contradictions in myself.

Will we be able to have inner contradiction and have our Utopia?
Can Utopia handle sharp edges and lusts?
Can we give up "wandering" off course when we feel driven to express even if that leads to a bad end?
Life has been a drama I stir. Can I give up the "itch" to have my way? Do I need to do that to be in Utopia?

I am thinking about all this tonight because life is seemingly complicated.

Dennis Leahy
20th August 2013, 02:43
"Dig deep, me hearties..." (said in my best fake guttural pirate-speak) "...dig deep." OK, so you read a few other people's visions of Utopia. That's OK. Unless you have been forced into survival mode your entire life, you've probably been thinking about this (at some level) your entire life. Even pragmatic people who are "saving" or "building" or "working towards..." are daydreaming of something better than "the way it is..."

C'mon, put those fingers on that keyboard. Please do look at the original post, and try to include those potential Catch-22s in utopia: 'possession' and 'persons harming others.' How are they handled in your vision of Utopia?

Thank you!

Dennis

donk
20th August 2013, 06:48
The only thing that should ever be owned is responsibility for yourself (actions, thoughts, emotions).

In a world where that is true, items that should not be messed with by everyone are not owned, they are taken responibility of by those who are able.

As "coveting" would be a quaint imagining from tales of fantastical backwards alien "societies" of lore or fables (more like barbian hordes, who just called themselves "civilized"), in the REAL world there wouldn't be concern over who POSSESSES said item, it would be silly to worry over such things.

Words would own meanings though. Language would be concise, careful not to be manipulative. It would be truth.

And those that understood these concepts best, this unconditional loving sort of way, would own responsibility to teach others, or at least initiate discussion or learning situations or something, engaging as many as are around or available for it.

And maybe the only other ownership allowed is for the desire to learn and grow and love. Doesn't that naturally come with a revulsion toward the concept of "ownership of possessions"?

donk
20th August 2013, 06:57
I was thinking its kinda synchronistic how I been using the concept of "ownership" as the whole reason we don't have a currently utopia now, as demonstrated here:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59127-Ownership

Added: heh!! Re-reading the thread, I just said pretty much same exact thing I said now back in May!! Except then I was trying to be a poet:


Started thinking in haiku:

Love, Truth, All That Is
Everything worth possessing
Is unownable


Thanks Dennis for turning it around! I was looking it from a negative angle, but I felt utopia = here/now (minus ownership)

araucaria
20th August 2013, 09:41
I am also assuming that Chester (justoneman), though he may have a powerful libido, would not really want to exploit/own/control women.

Chester's libido is not all he cracks it up to be. Sometimes he fails to spot a young lady altogether, even when shown her twice (in "greybeard"'s sunglasses) :)


Who's Sophia? I was seeing greybeard's smile. I must be ancient.

Finefeather
20th August 2013, 11:52
-------

I was there once, and it has been mythologized as Shambhala. The real name was Shang-Shung (http://www.ssi-austria.at/ssi-engl/kyunglung-intro-engl.htm), in western Tibet: even now it is extremely hard to get to. Here is a photo of the ruins:

I was there for four lifetimes, in the AD 820-975 period. It was a beautiful, idyllic community of peace, study, meditation and learning. The little paradise -- which was famous for a thousand miles around -- eventually fell into dereliction through natural climate change, when the rains failed.

Hi Bill
I guess that explains the hat then? Love you...:biggrin1:
http://www.whistlerquestion.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=GW&Date=20090930&Category=WHISTLER08&ArtNo=309309976&Ref=AR&maxw=900&maxh=650

CD7
20th August 2013, 12:26
C'mon, put those fingers on that keyboard. Please do look at the original post, and try to include those potential Catch-22s in utopia: 'possession' and 'persons harming others.' How are they handled in your vision of Utopia?

Thank you!



I am going to say tht the TURNIQUIT STRAPPED around humanities neck is #1 priority. This is why im always ranting for free food and free housing. Without this release, not much will BLOOM into ANY utopia.

As far as behavior----as a juvenile probation counselor, program counselor, myself a juvenile delinquent, I feel I have a grasp on some levels why most of these individuals self destruct and create havoc around them. It is a result of the basic foundation this whole globe is built upon...and I am not going to go into a long post to explain what most here already KNOW wht I mean in this regard.

I sincerely wish the electronic poles being erected all over would disappear...sincerely

jiminii
20th August 2013, 12:34
OK, Let's let Gripreaper's tongue-in-cheek response represent a percentage of the population who are so unevolved that the furthest they can think in a discussion of a utopian Earth is self-gratification (material goods and even possessing a 'harem', indicating an exploitative, sociopathic "use" of women as sex toys.)

It is a caricature, but I'm sure it does express the real "utopian vision" of a percentage of humans.

Looking forward to Gripreaper's sincere vision, as it could not be much further from the one he posted.

That post of his does put a magnifying glass on one of the bullet points of info that I had hoped each person would think about and post their ideas on:



What (if anything) would you solely own and what (if anything) would have no ownership (either shared among all or be "off-limits"/preserved)

The answer to this question should be honest, straightforward, and off the top of your head. The answer to this question is one of the reasons I started the thread, and is a strong hint of another thread (yet to be started) that analyzes the contents of this one.

Come one, come all... everyone from the newest member to the oldest, from the prolific posters to those who mainly read. Membership at Avalon is not just for reading (anyone can read - you don't need to be a member to read), and this is a topic that should be very easy to be interactive - it is simply expressing your opinion as opinion. What are your hopes and dreams for Earth and humanity while on Earth? A few people feel that Earth, the way humanity interacts with the Earth, and the way humanity interacts with humanity (including the most nefarious, most selfish, most warlike, most exploitative, most heinous behaviors such as torture and murder) is perfect - don't change a thing. Most others would request or create changes if they could. If you feel that anything is "out-of-whack", then use it to help you describe your vision of utopian living on Earth.

Thanks!

Dennis

make sure the harem is Big with the most beautiful of each race with all sizes and types and all very sensual exotic and fully electrical charged and HUNGRY for men, (only one man will be there), so that Gripreaper will be so overwhelmed he will be running into the woods hiding in the trees trying not to get caught by all these seductive women. We don't want them to be slaves, (that would be no fun), but to be TOTALLY IN LOVE WITH GRIPREAPER.

And he must maintain this harem of thousands of girls or he will not get any food. This way we can guarantee he will be totally saturated to the nth degree for the next 100,000 million years

good luck Gripreaper

jim

grannyfranny100
20th August 2013, 13:33
Dennis you asked for more discussion and Donk said, "The only thing that should ever be owned is responsibility for yourself (actions, thoughts, emotions)" which brings up an issue I feel: SLOBS.

I know people who have the money to own rental properties but don't because renters do not take care of properties. Many renters live like animals except animals don't spoil their own nests like many renters do. And if one owns a property rather than rent, many neighbors borrow stuff and "forget" to return it and if they do, they have abused the item. Or like one thread here, the neighbor did not return outdoor furniture and her kids were using it like a jungle gym. When the Avalon member tried to address this issue, the woman claimed he was picking on her because she was black!

In our society, we have been socially engineered to use up stuff, dispose of it and buy new. That even applies to cell phones. Who needs to buy a new one every two years, yet all the advertising makes it seem that you have to have some new feature on the latest model.

I am amazed every time I go into a Verizon store at the poorly dressed people who look like they couldn't afford a cell phone. Yet there they are seeking the status of a new cellphone. Their basic grooming sucks so bad that you can tell they don't even wash their hands after using a restroom and could be dropping head lice on every phone they try out.

And a new concept has developed in cities: belong to some coop that owns vehicles and you just use one when you need one. Sounds like a great cost cutting idea. But what happens when you get a vehicle littered with trash like a Fabreeze car freshener ad. Do we just leave a commonly owned vehicle looking like a MacDonald's trash barrel but smelling good?

Now that I am an old fart, I admit that some of my behavior in my younger years doesn't measure up to my current standards. As Donk said, "own responsibility for yourself" but how would society deal with this? Since tattoos are popular these days, do we tattoo "slob" on the person's forehead, force them into some mind control entrainment, banned them from the coop because the initial membership documentation is filled with legalese to cover every possible irresponsible behavior?

In our society we seemed to have raised several generations who think "freedom" means they can do whatever they want irregardless of the consequences to others. Some of them can not see farther than straight ahead as they walk backward into others or park their shopping carts so that others can't get past them. They seem to lack comprehension of others.

Oh yes, this is not a rarified comment on a New Age vision of a society of higher spiritual stuff. It is a comment on the deterioration of a society that has become more barbarian with every passing generation. How do we blend "freedom" with accountability in our utopian society?

donk
20th August 2013, 14:38
Missing accountability (responsibility) is why we don't live in a utopia now....which is why it is really the only limit in my vision of achieving one.

We've been programmed to fear self-correction, which then gets projected on others, so we live in a world where to work together to respect all things (and all life) is a lot harder than it should be...the programming includes conflict, which most seem addicted to.

That's why ownership of information has to go. It needs to be shared, and the important stuff (like emotional maturity--aka responsibility, aka accountability) maybe even pushed a little.

CD7
20th August 2013, 14:56
The intended URL as an active link, for your viewing pleasure: Movie: The Green Beautiful - "La Belle Verte" - Really Rare Awakening Movie Now Available In English - 1 Hour 30 Minutes (http://loveforlife.com.au/content/09/01/01/movie-green-beautiful-la-belle-verte-really-rare-awakening-movie-now-available-engl).
Ah - now that I've glanced at what this is - I remember seeing it before.

It is a really, really, wonderful movie. Please do see it!


Indeed, what a wonderful movie!....yes I can see why this would not be popular lol...

I could really identify with the woman and her experiences on earth--how things can appear when looked at through different lenses!!

I have visuals that would make their 'utopian' planet still look like a slum lol!! Im sure others out there do too! The points they were showing came through the movie very well.

grannyfranny100
20th August 2013, 16:28
Donk, humans rely on fear based ego impressions which are easily manipulated. Delving into our internal subconscious is unimaginable to most. It requires a willingness for personal responsibility which most people prefer to avoid. it is hard to be aware of and change our own internal perceptions that would allow for responsibility and human evolution. It is easier to just engage in the usual habits of our existing world.

I adore your version of a utopia based on responsibility but suggest it will take many generations to achieve given our dualistic mindset and our divergence from shamans, nature and unconscious awareness.

I just viewed again a video that explains the conflict of ego versus subconscious in our dualistic mind: Kymatica http://www.forbiddenknowledgetv.com/videos/consciousness/kymatica-2009-independent-documentary.html.

donk
20th August 2013, 17:06
I agree a million percent with your well stated assessment of the situation GF...and alas, explanation...of why it will (probably) always be a utopian (impossible) dream...

Look forward to checking out the vid, thanks!!

Dennis Leahy
21st August 2013, 14:46
(I got a PM from a friend that I had hoped would provide their unique vision in this thread, and realized that the use of the word "utopia" was itself a problem. I decided to use my answer in this thread.)

Thanks, *****. I think you have underscored the real problem with that thread...

The whole topic and its title was poorly worded. I should not have used the word "utopia" as it carries too much weight, and too much fantasy. It was supposed to be a shortcut to saying "the world and society as I would like to see it." The other aspect the word "utopia" evidently conveys to some folks is a personal utopia rather than a planetary utopia.


I find many people are simply "reactive", and bitch when things are not the way they want. When someone takes something away, they bitch. Not as many express with detail how they would structure society if they had the chance to make it to their own vision. <--- here, I should not have inserted the word "utopia." I have a feeling that a huge block of US citizens would stop bitching (and would not push for any other major changes) if the economy and government was rolled back to the 1950's, and they could get on with dreaming their "American Dream" - with 'utopia' measured simply by their personal acquisitions, their pile of stuff, with little or no regard to the rest of humanity or the environment.

In the US, we have a growing fascist government with a homicidal imperialist military, and a domestic army (DHS) and militarized police force, and control of our government by international bankers, oligarchs, and multinational corporations. We know what corporations do when they have no restrictions (they dominate and then monopolize a niche - as Monsanto has done - and some know no bounds, even defiling our DNA - as Monsanto has done.) Some Libertarians realize that what they really want is a free individual; some believe that society would function better if corporations also are free and unrestricted (seemingly looking only at theoretical "free markets" and not at what corporations actually do to the environment and humans: ecocide and exploitation.)

Some anarchists and anarco-libertarians want government dismantled. Some mean literally no government at all; some mean a government pared down to the bone. I had hoped that some would share their vision along these lines (if that is their vision.) I can imagine having no government for interactions between myself and my neighbor, perhaps when I have a bag of carrots and he has a dozen eggs, but I have not seen the vision fleshed-out on paper for hundreds of millions of people (with varying levels of integrity, and varying levels of tolerance for someone owning essential resources.) If two neighbors cannot come to an agreement over the carrots and eggs, that's one thing, but if your "neighbor" owns the water rights to the aquifer and decides in the free market to quintuple the price of your water, well, we have a different realm of ramifications.

We've gotten a bit of the Socialist vision (for example, the inclusion of Jacques Fresco's Venus Project), but the "no ownership, at all" discussion often lacks the detail of everyday life and interactions. In your vision, is it "your" toothbrush - you own it and have rights to it - or does it belong to the community? How about the shoes you're wearing... if you take them off to sit under a tree, is it OK if I put them on and walk away? How about the garden soil you've spent 20 years amending, the bed you sleep in, the house you've been occupying? Is it really workable - or desirable - to have absolutely no ownership?

I find these details usually missing in discussing the lofty utopian (er, "the world and the society as I would like to see it") visions.

If the issue of ownership is a powerful dividing line between visions, does it have to be a strict dichotomy (nothing is owned by individuals/everything is owned by individuals), or could there be a scale of degree of ownership, or classification of what would remain as individually owned (toothbrush, shoes, bed, house...) and what was community owned+protected+shared (air, water, infrastructure like roads, bridges, sewers, water treatment, public buildings, etc., non residential land, possibly even all farmland...)?

I have also seen "No coercion!" expressed as part of a utopian vision (which I believe stems from a desire not to be forced into paying any taxes, and it makes me wonder where the energy and money will come from to maintain everything publicly owned) and if there is no coercion of any sort, how does society (how do you) deal with societal miscreants? Certainly, a percentage of the population will be greedy, manipulative, mean-spirited, and even violent. Unless your vision has all of those folks going "poof!" and disappearing, how would you deal with them?

So, I apologize for using the word "utopia." It obviously has too much baggage, and has strong ties to fantasy for some folks.

I'll give this one last shot, and hope to get a few more people expressing their vision, and then I'll post mine (which is not any more correct or wrong than anyone else's.) Feel free to amend, edit, or append additional remarks, disregarding the fantasy attributes associated with "utopia", and offer your vision of the community, the nation, and the world you want to live in. Right now, a small handful of very greedy people control the resources of the planet, suppress energy technology that could usher-in a utopian vision that includes making (at least some) fantasy real, and are pushing for more and more control over every aspect of our lives. Certainly this is not your vision "the world and society as I would like to see it." This is your chance to design the next phase of societal changes to make a vastly better world for everyone, all life forms - dare I call it a planetary utopia.

Dennis

camper
29th August 2013, 23:41
My utopia would be present day living. No locks on my doors, wouldn't need them. I could take a walk at 3am if I couldn't sleep and not be afraid. Cars wouldn't run on gas and oil, I'm sure they can already do that now. A decent home for everyone! No one should be hungry ever. There are no wars, there are no borders you can't cross, and there are no more crooked Politicians!!! PEACE

Ron Mauer Sr
30th August 2013, 01:46
My "Utiopia" is more a change of personal consciousness than anything else. I want the ability to visit anyone, any animal, any place I have ever loved. Visit for as long as I please. Come and go on my command.

I want freedom, well being and joy for myself and the ability to grant freedom, well being and joy to anyone, any animal I meet who chooses to accept it.

I want to easily cut through :bs:, find truth and have an ongoing clear conscious two way communication with my soul.

In joy, safety and harmony I want to explore the unknown.

Carmen
30th August 2013, 02:02
Camper, apart from the fuel I still use, you are describing where I live. No locks on any doors! Don't even know where the keys would be to lock them if I wanted to . Every vehicle, farm and personal is not locked and keys remain in the ignitions! No harm comes to anyone if they wish to wander outside at three in the morning either. I do have a Mareema guardian dog who welcomes you, but if your vibration was not right you would not get near the house.

araucaria
18th October 2013, 08:52
Here is an interesting utopian novel I remember enjoying in 2005 and have only just rediscovered. It is called Bellamy Writes Again and is written by Joseph Myers, who would seem to be the reincarnation of Edward Bellamy, best-selling author of Looking Backward, which this book ‘attempt[s] to improve upon’. It tells the story of a man who travels forward to the year 2103, which is the same plotline as the earlier book a century before.


http://reincarnation2002.com/on-line_book.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looking_Backward

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looking_Backward)
Bellamy’s book is here:
http://www.unification.net/bellamy/

risveglio
3rd November 2013, 04:58
Hi Dennis,

I put this in the other thread. I have been trying hard to define our vision and just have not been able to put on paper and I think its because its not possible to describe a Utopian vision because our vision is anti-utopian. This short article offers the best description I have read to attempt to explain how we think.

http://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anonymous-anarchy-against-utopia

Milneman
25th November 2013, 04:23
My Utopia is simple. People tell the truth. That's really all you need. As long as people are being truthful, they're not going to hurt each other, the planet, themselves.

And the truth is, my Utopia will never happen.

Thank God for chocolate.

Dennis Leahy
18th August 2014, 22:49
I never could get anyone to fully express a vision of anarchy, or anarcho-capitalism, anarcho-tribalism, or constitutionalism... even though when I talk to people (often people complaining that The Reset Button does not directly aim at their vision), I do hear these visions expressed.

My point in this thread thus never really materialized, because the contrasts (that I know ARE there), were not really expressed. Once expressed, my big point was going to be to ask everyone to step back and recognize that not only do we have many different visions of an ideal way for a society full of human and non-human life forms to live and thrive in (which I should not have called "utopia", as that word has too much baggage), but we also are looking at (our ideal) end state, and not the path - especially the first step - to get there.

So, where does that leave us?

Well, for me, it left me looking for our common ground - and it left me with the understanding that my own vision of "utopia", no matter how benign, compassionate, loving, inclusive, embracing of cultural and spiritual differences... was still going to be someone's nightmare (and I suspect that their vision would be for me as well.)

Common ground was very much taken into account as I went through the process of reading everything social/political I could devour, as well as taking time to "cogitate" on the bridges between the expressed ideas and ideals - then the gems were plucked, paraphrased, edited, blended with some of my own thoughts, edited again, and published as The Reset Button.

Note that no one speaking of their ideals/utopia is expressing being oppressed, suppressed, dominated, corralled, controlled, manipulated, poisoned, choked, made ill, made subservient, lied to, kept in the dark, robbed, or enslaved.

It might sound stupid, but that is our common ground. Of course, our common ground is not all expressed in negatives: we also all want to be loved, appreciated, healthy, to live in peace and harmony...

But just for a moment, go back to the negative list. I think if people are really awake and aware, that list pretty well describes exactly what the Ruling Class is doing to us (common, ordinary citizens/people.) It doesn't matter what your utopia is - until that list of negatives is halted, you won't live your utopia. The first step HAS to be halting the Ruling Class from being empowered to continue that way of treating us.
[ An aside:
This is the point where I always lose a few people who believe that everything comes down to the individual, and that they can halt (or believe they already have halted) the Ruling Class from ruling them. They simply will not see the system, the big picture, society in general - believing that each individual can (and must) fix only themselves, and that it will add up to a fixed society. I find this viewpoint narcissistic and ignorant. For example, every one of us breathes in toxins with every breath. Every breath. No escaping it, not even on a mountaintop. The vast majority of humans (and septillions of non-human creatures) drink polluted water. There is simply NO way to "fix" this on an individual level. Polluted air is a social problem, a societal problem and will be fixed (or ignored) by society. The liquid state of water provides a slightly better chance of filtration than the air we breathe, but even then, your garden is rained-on with polluted rain, and you'd have to sequester your self away from all outdoor natural bodies of water to avoid polluted water.

Millions of prisoners, the institutionalized, much of the elderly, many young children...eat poisonous (GMO, pesticide and herbicide and fungicide-drenched) food, as it is the only food made available to them. They certainly cannot "fix" this, only society can.

Almost everyone born into poverty lives an impoverished life and dies in poverty. With the inverse-Ubuntu pyramid structure of capitalism, regardless how many people aspire and strive to leave poverty - and work hard - most never succeed in "fixing" their own or their family's poverty.

These are just a few of the most obvious examples of why "fixing oneself" is not enough. It's a beautiful thing - if you can do it - but it's not enough. ]
So, common ground is halting the Ruling Class from ruling - to displace them and the paradigm they have set up to ensure their continued success at ruling us. What we do - after we actually gain control over our own governance - is up to us, and it is possible that it could split off into several divergent experimental sub-groups within society (each pursuing their vision of "utopia.") But one thing we know for sure: as long as the Ruling Class is allowed to continue ruling us, we will be subject to their will, their vision, not ours.

Now you know where The Reset Button came from, and why it focuses on the first step, and not a prearranged direction for the second and subsequent steps. First, we gain self-governance. Then... well, then we will be able to actually explore our vision(s.)

Dennis

{edit} sorry, numerous typos and a couple of half-finished sentences in the above when I hit the "Submit Reply" instead of "Preview Post" button. I think I have now fixed the typos and finished the dangling thoughts.

donk
18th August 2014, 23:16
Note that no one speaking of their ideals/utopia is expressing being oppressed, suppressed, dominated, corralled, controlled, manipulated, poisoned, choked, made ill, made subservient, lied to, kept in the dark, robbed, or enslaved.

It might sound stupid, but that is our common ground. Of course, our common ground is not all expressed in negatives: we also all want to be loved, appreciated, healthy, to live in peace and harmony...

It doesn't sound stupid to me.

It's ashame Dennis, if people weren't so caught in their distress from their lack of love, being unappreciated, unhealthy, etc on that individual level, they'd be available to see (& help out on) the collective level.

The collective is such a mess right now, by the design of the faith-based system we continue to choose to live in, that it's tough. A perfect psychopath cyclical ****storm, has us eating our own tails as species.

I appreciate you Dennis.