PDA

View Full Version : Covert Hostility... the Tone Level... WHAT IT IS



Pages : [1] 2

jiminii
24th August 2013, 07:24
sex itself is minus 0.8 on the tone scale ... it is a negative below death tone

It is a theta trap, (traps your thoughts constantly on this idea of sex no matter where you go). It has your attention on other people's body parts.

this is put into the creation of bodies for their compulsive survival.

but for the creator, the spirit being that created this to animate life, he never thought of it as a trap until he got trapped in it.

it is some happy said incident that spirits like to experience and so it is constantly draining them of energy that could be used more productively.

some people call this LOVE. NO LOVE IS THE DESIRE TO BE CLOSE TO ANOTHER BECAUSE OF YOUR LIKING OF THEM OR LIKES AND SIMILARITIES ARE THE SAME,

YOU JUST LIKE TO BE WITH THEM (with or without sex)

that is why it is on the minus level of the tone scale and a GE does not go below ZERO.

this means it is affected by spirit beings only. A GE (genetic entity ... ghost that creates physical bodies), has no MIND other than electronically programmed memories to operate. It is like a ROBOT. It was what REAL spirits created before they got trapped inside it. They would create a body and animate it and grow it with a GE that is also a creation that is an automatic picture recording system that the life form uses to survive from. It has a programmed personality put in it by the spirit who created it like a lion or a tiger or a dog or any other species. But this GE can NOT originate NEW THOUGHT.

a large percentage of the planet are NO GREATER THAN THE TREES OR PLANTS.

To understand this you must understand this is a prison planet. Actual Spirit beings (which are really a spirits viewpoint that is also a creation so that the spirit can extend itself into the creation of this universe from the static it is), so these actual spiritual Viewpoints are dumped here from other stars as prisoners. They are implanted to alter their memories so they can not remember who they are so they can escape from this prison.

the number of these spirit beings depends on WHO IS DUMPED HERE, not HOW MANY BODIES ARE CREATED.

the 100 percent bodies are created by GE's

70 percent or more do not have SPIRITS CONNECTED TO THEM so these 70 percent are basically ROBOTS

30 percent or Less are bodies with both GE's and Thetans (spirit beings viewpoint)

So the bodies that are created are from GE's with NO MIND ... (their mind is an automatic response mind caused by pictures, experience, and programming ONLY).

so you can estimate that more than 70 percent of the planet are ROBOTS

30 percent have SPIRIT BEINGS, (viewpoints golden balls that manage and take over the body from the spirit).

the TONE scale goes from minus 40 to Plus 40.

the tone of a GE can only go from 0 (death) to 4 ... that is 0 to 4 on the tone scale. 4 is enthusiasm.

covert hostility is between fear and and anger.

below anger the being becomes more perverted, and is leaning more to death. So people below anger would be more prone to suicide.
so anyone below anger can not be trusted.

people in fear interpret everything in life from the viewpoint of FEAR

Covert Hostility the person interprets everything from the viewpoint of (to survive I must attack everyone from the back)

from anger the person interprets everything from a viewpoint (I must fight with anger to survive).

covert hostility the person is perverting THOUGHT. He CAN"T HAVE ANGER. because HE got ANGRY one time and it PRACTICALLY DESTROYED HIS LIFE.

so he can NOT get his TONE LEVEL INTO A SURVIVAL RANGE ABOVE ANGER because he is extremely afraid of ANGER.

Get angry around GAYS and they will try to tell you to calm down and be reasonable, while they covertly tell everyone that because you are angry you are NUTS.

The PURPOSE OF COVERT HOSTILE PEOPLE IS TO GET EVERYONE'S TONE LEVEL BELOW THEM SO THEY CAN CONTROL THEM WITH THEIR LIES AND KNIFE IN THE BACK TECHNIQUES.

Gays are in the COVERT HOSTILITY range ,.. and to some degree are knife in the back people or attack from the back either with words or other means

they always make your conversations less than they are and the purpose is to bring your tone level down below them, so they can feel safe

example: you bought a new shirt. The gay will say, "oh that is a beautiful shirt you have, I have loved it for years."

he says it is beautiful but degrades it by saying it is an old shirt to make it of lower value.

You get around covert people and you will come down in tone because their words are designed to bring you down below their tone level so they can control you and feel safe.

You get around gays and their SPACE IS DIRTY, STICKY, and they push their feminism to extreme KNOWING that if bothers people. THEY KNOW it makes people feel weird and awkward and that is why they do it.

This is also why the GAYS OVER EXAGGERATE THEIR FEMINISM, TO PUT YOUR ATTENTION CONSTANTLY ON THIS BODY FUNCTION CALLED SEX,

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LOVE,

It is like a Vampire WHO can't get enough attention and so they want to trap your thoughts and energy on their weirdness

therefore, you can not trust GAYS they have perverted sex to use it for CONTROL and their hidden intention is to bring people down below them.

Since their survival is leaning towards death THEY DO NOT CARE WHO LIVES OR DIES. Put them in the News or Politics and they will follow any of these Bankers programs whether it kills everyone or not.

jim

novus
24th August 2013, 07:37
for what it's worth, I hear the majority of people on this planet are at 1.1 (covert hostility) on the tone scale. A pretty sorry and none survival place to be.

northstar
24th August 2013, 10:45
jiminii this sorry homophobic screed makes me feel sad for you.
GLBT people are our brothers and sisters, our mothers and fathers, our sons and daughters, our co-workers, friends and neighbors. If individuals in any group deserve criticism, so be it, but I don't hold any pre-conceived prejudice and hatred in my mind or heart toward them as a group.

I personally know GLBT people who are near and dear to my heart and to read this caustic homophobic rant makes me feel sad.

Fred Steeves
24th August 2013, 11:27
You get around gays and their SPACE IS DIRTY, STICKY,


Still trashing gay people I see Jim. I sincerely hope this thread stays up for all to see...

Talk about "Covert Hostility". http://nexusnow.info/forum/images/smilies/doh.gif Get a mirror brother...

Sgt-Bones
24th August 2013, 12:01
**original comments deleted by me**

... figured it wasn't worth getting myself banned over something as ridiculous and moronic as that which has been expressed in the OP**

Sebastion
24th August 2013, 13:17
You are right Sgt Bones, sometimes ya just have to shake your head, after a facepalm first, and then just walk away....





**original comments deleted by me**

... figured it wasn't worth getting myself banned over something as ridiculous and moronic as that which has been expressed in the OP**

Sidney
24th August 2013, 13:18
sex itself is minus 0.8 on the tone scale ... it is a negative below death tone

It is a theta trap, (traps your thoughts constantly on this idea of sex no matter where you go). It has your attention on other people's body parts.

this is put into the creation of bodies for their compulsive survival.

but for the creator, the spirit being that created this to animate life, he never thought of it as a trap until he got trapped in it.

it is some happy said incident that spirits like to experience and so it is constantly draining them of energy that could be used more productively.

some people call this LOVE. NO LOVE IS THE DESIRE TO BE CLOSE TO ANOTHER BECAUSE OF YOUR LIKING OF THEM OR LIKES AND SIMILARITIES ARE THE SAME,

YOU JUST LIKE TO BE WITH THEM (with or without sex)

that is why it is on the minus level of the tone scale and a GE does not go below ZERO.

this means it is affected by spirit beings only. A GE (genetic entity ... ghost that creates physical bodies), has no MIND other than electronically programmed memories to operate. It is like a ROBOT. It was what REAL spirits created before they got trapped inside it. They would create a body and animate it and grow it with a GE that is also a creation that is an automatic picture recording system that the life form uses to survive from. It has a programmed personality put in it by the spirit who created it like a lion or a tiger or a dog or any other species. But this GE can NOT originate NEW THOUGHT.

a large percentage of the planet are NO GREATER THAN THE TREES OR PLANTS.

To understand this you must understand this is a prison planet. Actual Spirit beings (which are really a spirits viewpoint that is also a creation so that the spirit can extend itself into the creation of this universe from the static it is), so these actual spiritual Viewpoints are dumped here from other stars as prisoners. They are implanted to alter their memories so they can not remember who they are so they can escape from this prison.

the number of these spirit beings depends on WHO IS DUMPED HERE, not HOW MANY BODIES ARE CREATED.

the 100 percent bodies are created by GE's

70 percent or more do not have SPIRITS CONNECTED TO THEM so these 70 percent are basically ROBOTS

30 percent or Less are bodies with both GE's and Thetans (spirit beings viewpoint)

So the bodies that are created are from GE's with NO MIND ... (their mind is an automatic response mind caused by pictures, experience, and programming ONLY).

so you can estimate that more than 70 percent of the planet are ROBOTS

30 percent have SPIRIT BEINGS, (viewpoints golden balls that manage and take over the body from the spirit).

the TONE scale goes from minus 40 to Plus 40.

the tone of a GE can only go from 0 (death) to 4 ... that is 0 to 4 on the tone scale. 4 is enthusiasm.

covert hostility is between fear and and anger.

below anger the being becomes more perverted, and is leaning more to death. So people below anger would be more prone to suicide.
so anyone below anger can not be trusted.

people in fear interpret everything in life from the viewpoint of FEAR

Covert Hostility the person interprets everything from the viewpoint of (to survive I must attack everyone from the back)

from anger the person interprets everything from a viewpoint (I must fight with anger to survive).

covert hostility the person is perverting THOUGHT. He CAN"T HAVE ANGER. because HE got ANGRY one time and it PRACTICALLY DESTROYED HIS LIFE.

so he can NOT get his TONE LEVEL INTO A SURVIVAL RANGE ABOVE ANGER because he is extremely afraid of ANGER.

Get angry around GAYS and they will try to tell you to calm down and be reasonable, while they covertly tell everyone that because you are angry you are NUTS.

The PURPOSE OF COVERT HOSTILE PEOPLE IS TO GET EVERYONE'S TONE LEVEL BELOW THEM SO THEY CAN CONTROL THEM WITH THEIR LIES AND KNIFE IN THE BACK TECHNIQUES.

Gays are in the COVERT HOSTILITY range ,.. and to some degree are knife in the back people or attack from the back either with words or other means

they always make your conversations less than they are and the purpose is to bring your tone level down below them, so they can feel safe

example: you bought a new shirt. The gay will say, "oh that is a beautiful shirt you have, I have loved it for years."

he says it is beautiful but degrades it by saying it is an old shirt to make it of lower value.

You get around covert people and you will come down in tone because their words are designed to bring you down below their tone level so they can control you and feel safe.

You get around gays and their SPACE IS DIRTY, STICKY, and they push their feminism to extreme KNOWING that if bothers people. THEY KNOW it makes people feel weird and awkward and that is why they do it.

This is also why the GAYS OVER EXAGGERATE THEIR FEMINISM, TO PUT YOUR ATTENTION CONSTANTLY ON THIS BODY FUNCTION CALLED SEX,

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LOVE,

It is like a Vampire WHO can't get enough attention and so they want to trap your thoughts and energy on their weirdness

therefore, you can not trust GAYS they have perverted sex to use it for CONTROL and their hidden intention is to bring people down below them.

Since their survival is leaning towards death THEY DO NOT CARE WHO LIVES OR DIES. Put them in the News or Politics and they will follow any of these Bankers programs whether it kills everyone or not.

jim

Hey Jim, It is not wise to stereotype any group. All walks of life include many "groups of people", gay, straight,bi, black, white, intelligent, ignorant etc. etc. All those groups include varying degrees of good, bad, and ugly. IMO, you are not choosing your words wisely here, as your implication of gays as a whole, is going to *iss off a whole LOT of people. Just sayin.:unsure:

Cristian
24th August 2013, 13:21
hey jim :bounce:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKAW96N-Vms

jiminii
24th August 2013, 14:35
for what it's worth, I hear the majority of people on this planet are at 1.1 (covert hostility) on the tone scale. A pretty sorry and none survival place to be.

actually their social tone is sympathy below that.
and maybe their real tone is below death

but who knows hahahah

jim

jiminii
24th August 2013, 14:43
sex itself is minus 0.8 on the tone scale ... it is a negative below death tone

It is a theta trap, (traps your thoughts constantly on this idea of sex no matter where you go). It has your attention on other people's body parts.

this is put into the creation of bodies for their compulsive survival.

but for the creator, the spirit being that created this to animate life, he never thought of it as a trap until he got trapped in it.

it is some happy said incident that spirits like to experience and so it is constantly draining them of energy that could be used more productively.

some people call this LOVE. NO LOVE IS THE DESIRE TO BE CLOSE TO ANOTHER BECAUSE OF YOUR LIKING OF THEM OR LIKES AND SIMILARITIES ARE THE SAME,

YOU JUST LIKE TO BE WITH THEM (with or without sex)

that is why it is on the minus level of the tone scale and a GE does not go below ZERO.

this means it is affected by spirit beings only. A GE (genetic entity ... ghost that creates physical bodies), has no MIND other than electronically programmed memories to operate. It is like a ROBOT. It was what REAL spirits created before they got trapped inside it. They would create a body and animate it and grow it with a GE that is also a creation that is an automatic picture recording system that the life form uses to survive from. It has a programmed personality put in it by the spirit who created it like a lion or a tiger or a dog or any other species. But this GE can NOT originate NEW THOUGHT.

a large percentage of the planet are NO GREATER THAN THE TREES OR PLANTS.

To understand this you must understand this is a prison planet. Actual Spirit beings (which are really a spirits viewpoint that is also a creation so that the spirit can extend itself into the creation of this universe from the static it is), so these actual spiritual Viewpoints are dumped here from other stars as prisoners. They are implanted to alter their memories so they can not remember who they are so they can escape from this prison.

the number of these spirit beings depends on WHO IS DUMPED HERE, not HOW MANY BODIES ARE CREATED.

the 100 percent bodies are created by GE's

70 percent or more do not have SPIRITS CONNECTED TO THEM so these 70 percent are basically ROBOTS

30 percent or Less are bodies with both GE's and Thetans (spirit beings viewpoint)

So the bodies that are created are from GE's with NO MIND ... (their mind is an automatic response mind caused by pictures, experience, and programming ONLY).

so you can estimate that more than 70 percent of the planet are ROBOTS

30 percent have SPIRIT BEINGS, (viewpoints golden balls that manage and take over the body from the spirit).

the TONE scale goes from minus 40 to Plus 40.

the tone of a GE can only go from 0 (death) to 4 ... that is 0 to 4 on the tone scale. 4 is enthusiasm.

covert hostility is between fear and and anger.

below anger the being becomes more perverted, and is leaning more to death. So people below anger would be more prone to suicide.
so anyone below anger can not be trusted.

people in fear interpret everything in life from the viewpoint of FEAR

Covert Hostility the person interprets everything from the viewpoint of (to survive I must attack everyone from the back)

from anger the person interprets everything from a viewpoint (I must fight with anger to survive).

covert hostility the person is perverting THOUGHT. He CAN"T HAVE ANGER. because HE got ANGRY one time and it PRACTICALLY DESTROYED HIS LIFE.

so he can NOT get his TONE LEVEL INTO A SURVIVAL RANGE ABOVE ANGER because he is extremely afraid of ANGER.

Get angry around GAYS and they will try to tell you to calm down and be reasonable, while they covertly tell everyone that because you are angry you are NUTS.

The PURPOSE OF COVERT HOSTILE PEOPLE IS TO GET EVERYONE'S TONE LEVEL BELOW THEM SO THEY CAN CONTROL THEM WITH THEIR LIES AND KNIFE IN THE BACK TECHNIQUES.

Gays are in the COVERT HOSTILITY range ,.. and to some degree are knife in the back people or attack from the back either with words or other means

they always make your conversations less than they are and the purpose is to bring your tone level down below them, so they can feel safe

example: you bought a new shirt. The gay will say, "oh that is a beautiful shirt you have, I have loved it for years."

he says it is beautiful but degrades it by saying it is an old shirt to make it of lower value.

You get around covert people and you will come down in tone because their words are designed to bring you down below their tone level so they can control you and feel safe.

You get around gays and their SPACE IS DIRTY, STICKY, and they push their feminism to extreme KNOWING that if bothers people. THEY KNOW it makes people feel weird and awkward and that is why they do it.

This is also why the GAYS OVER EXAGGERATE THEIR FEMINISM, TO PUT YOUR ATTENTION CONSTANTLY ON THIS BODY FUNCTION CALLED SEX,

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LOVE,

It is like a Vampire WHO can't get enough attention and so they want to trap your thoughts and energy on their weirdness

therefore, you can not trust GAYS they have perverted sex to use it for CONTROL and their hidden intention is to bring people down below them.

Since their survival is leaning towards death THEY DO NOT CARE WHO LIVES OR DIES. Put them in the News or Politics and they will follow any of these Bankers programs whether it kills everyone or not.

jim

Hey Jim, It is not wise to stereotype any group. All walks of life include many "groups of people", gay, straight,bi, black, white, intelligent, ignorant etc. etc. All those groups include varying degrees of good, bad, and ugly. IMO, you are not choosing your words wisely here, as your implication of gays as a whole, is going to *iss off a whole LOT of people. Just sayin.:unsure:

if I piss them off then I did good I raised their tone level to anger. What you don't know is what choices people make in life also shows where they are on the tone scale. a sympathy person would probably become a nurse.

sympathy is lower than covert. At least at covert they are willing to fight a little.
if only they could take it a notch up further and REALLY GET PISSED at the situation of this TRAP.

we are talking about 76 trillion years of pain. the pain of any one person could cave in the entire planet, the problem with covert is that it allows perversion in to the fight. A lot of people in Japan might be covert because of the fear they would have of a more powerful country like USA

that is why they attacked secretly. that is covert hostility. and USA covertly set them up. same thing. we are fighting covert hostile bankers. and the rulers operate on this level ...

so as for the planet most of the planet would be below that as 70 percent are robots. the 30 percent are from the bottom to the top.

that is why it was necessary to bring about 70 million brand new spirits with NO PAIN back here to somehow salvage the place.

jim

Billy
24th August 2013, 14:44
covert hostility is between fear and and anger.


Gays are in the COVERT HOSTILITY range ,.. and to some degree are knife in the back people or attack from the back either with words or other means

they always make your conversations less than they are and the purpose is to bring your tone level down below them, so they can feel safe



You get around gays and their SPACE IS DIRTY, STICKY, and they push their feminism to extreme KNOWING that if bothers people. THEY KNOW it makes people feel weird and awkward and that is why they do it.

This is also why the GAYS OVER EXAGGERATE THEIR FEMINISM, TO PUT YOUR ATTENTION CONSTANTLY ON THIS BODY FUNCTION CALLED SEX,

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LOVE,

It is like a Vampire WHO can't get enough attention and so they want to trap your thoughts and energy on their weirdness

therefore, you can not trust GAYS they have perverted sex to use it for CONTROL and their hidden intention is to bring people down below them.

Since their survival is leaning towards death THEY DO NOT CARE WHO LIVES OR DIES. Put them in the News or Politics and they will follow any of these Bankers programs whether it kills everyone or not.

jim

Ouch i felt that. That was very painful.

peace

ROMANWKT
24th August 2013, 14:51
You people that object to real reality are so narrow minded its unbelievable, you really don't understand what is being said to you, you are really from another planet, this its simple terms is pure psychology, its real and exists. read it again and listen, with your feelings , and you will understand runaway emotional hype, get it, it is so.

roman

¤=[Post Update]=¤


hey jim :bounce:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKAW96N-Vms

it has nothing to do with that, you got it wrong, listen and contemplate.

roman

ROMANWKT
24th August 2013, 14:56
Jim they haven't the faintest what you are talking about, they and I mean you here on this website really are day dreamers, you have a long way to go as yet to really understand. keep on dreaming simple minds

roman

Mike
24th August 2013, 14:57
eek. Jim, you gotta toss a little sugar on your message from time to time. sure, there is a certain group of homosexuals that are deliberately flamboyant, and maybe a little annoying to folks who can't relate, but you've just objectified an entire group of people; you've tossed the baby *and the bathtub* out with the bathwater.

it's just this sort of attitude that starts those wars you've so famously claimed to have singlehandedly stopped. careful brother....careful.....

gripreaper
24th August 2013, 14:59
All refracted light has a tone as well as a color.

http://www.zjlindal.com/images/image003.jpg

It's no secret that the slower terrestrial tones and colors cause manifestation to appear solid, or that the faster tones are more ethereal, but to attach archetypes to them, and judge them as to the expression of this energy in manifestation just astounds me.

We all came here to experience and express in all of the facets of the rainbow, not only in the extreme polarized states of the electromagnetic spectrum, but in unity. Why is it that one expression is better than another? Have you yourself not "been there, done that" too in some lifetime? Have you not been male, female, son, daughter, mother, father, etc. in all of it's forms and expressions?

Is it not up to the soul how that sentient being chooses to experience itself in manifestation? This is true empathy and compassion.

Star Mariner
24th August 2013, 15:01
All this is all soooo wrong, misunderstood, misapplied, distorted, (and offensive) and on soooo many levels. Sorry.

I'll confront just the first issue, a real clanger:


70 percent or more do not have SPIRITS CONNECTED TO THEM so these 70 percent are basically ROBOTS

100% of human beings have spirits in them. Where there is life, there is spirit. And vice versa. Plain and simple! It is impossible for a human being to function without a soul. There would also be no purpose, as a human being is in its one and only purpose a vehicle, a 3-dimensional physical construct for a soul to experience through.

But I don't want to go overboard here. Respect to you jimini for your input and undoubted wisdom in many areas, but some of the points you bring up here are just ghastly ghastly ghastly. I can say no more.

Oh, except one other thing, regarding what more and more are beginning to believe.. this is NOT a prison planet, unless you choose to go to prison. This is the planet of FREE CHOICE, expressed through duality. No one has to come here. We that are here now have chosen to come here for the variety and richness of experience that is offers. The only thing that would 'trap' us here would be a desire to accelerate our progression, and an inherent 'need' on a higher level that would bring us back to complete (and perfect) any unfinished business we have (karma).

ROMANWKT
24th August 2013, 15:02
All refracted light has a tone as well as a color.

http://www.zjlindal.com/images/image003.jpg

It's no secret that the slower terrestrial tones and colors cause manifestation to appear solid, or that the faster tones are more ethereal, but to attach archetypes to them, and judge them as to the expression of this energy in manifestation just astounds me.

We all came here to experience and express in all of the facets of the rainbow, not only in the extreme polarized states of the electromagnetic spectrum, but in unity. Why is it that one expression is better than another? Have you yourself not "been there, done that" too in some lifetime? Have you not been male, female, son, daughter, mother, father, etc. in all of it's forms and expressions?

Is it not up to the soul how that sentient being chooses to experience itself in manifestation? This is true empathy and compassion.

If you listen very carefully its all from empathy

roman

shadowstalker
24th August 2013, 15:02
I want to know where he get these ideas from where is the research to back this all up..
Which group did he learn this from and when?
How old is this research? who backs it. and why?
Who paid for this study group?
Was there a double blind testing for all this?

jiminii
24th August 2013, 15:02
jiminii this sorry homophobic screed makes me feel sad for you.
GLBT people are our brothers and sisters, our mothers and fathers, our sons and daughters, our co-workers, friends and neighbors. If individuals in any group deserve criticism, so be it, but I don't hold any pre-conceived prejudice and hatred in my mind or heart toward them as a group.

I personally know GLBT people who are near and dear to my heart and to read this caustic homophobic rant makes me feel sad.

do you know people can love robots not knowing they are robots. They look real and talk real and all the rest but they go home and watch the same TV shows, go to the same restaurants, go to the same bars, and are very hard to teach.

I can take a dog and train him that only has one of these GE's in it and I will have to repeat the action again and again and again and again until if finally gets what you want

I can take another dog who also has a spirit being in besides the GE and it almost picks up what you want it to do instantly.

these people with GE only have to be constantly trained again and again and they can not create anything NEW ... they can ONLY COPY OTHERS.

THIS IS SAD TOO ... RIGHT BUT IT IS WHAT IS HERE

AND WE HAVE TO HANDLE IT ALL AS IT IS TO SALVAGE THIS SECTOR ... SO YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO CONFRONT WHAT IS REALLY HERE IF YOU WANT TO CHANGE IT

jim

gripreaper
24th August 2013, 15:04
Jim they haven't the faintest what you are talking about, they and I mean you here on this website really are day dreamers, you have a long way to go as yet to really understand. keep on dreaming simple minds

roman

So Roman, why would you objectify the entire Avalon community as "simple minds having a long way to go" and place yourself and Jim above the rest of us?

Did someone put something in the water this morning?

ROMANWKT
24th August 2013, 15:06
All this is all soooo wrong, misunderstood, misapplied, distorted, (and offensive) and on soooo many levels. Sorry.

I'll confront just the first issue, a real clanger:


70 percent or more do not have SPIRITS CONNECTED TO THEM so these 70 percent are basically ROBOTS

100% of human beings have spirits in them. Where there is life, there is spirit. And vice versa. Plain and simple! It is impossible for a human being to function without a soul. There would also be no purpose, as a human being is in its one and only purpose a vehicle, a 3-dimensional physical construct for a soul to experience through.

But I don't want to go overboard here. Respect to you jimini for your input and undoubted wisdom in many areas, but some of the points you bring up here are just ghastly ghastly ghastly. I can say no more.

Oh, except one other thing, regarding what more and more are beginning to believe.. this is NOT a prison planet, unless you choose to go to prison. This is the planet of FREE CHOICE, expressed through duality. No one has to come here. We that are here now have chosen to come here for the variety and richness of experience that is offers. The only thing that would 'trap' us here would be a desire to accelerate our progression, and an inherent 'need' on a higher level that would bring us back to complete (and perfect) any unfinished business we have (karma).

Sounds as you're not widely read enough to say that. No not all human are the carriers of spirit, read more appropriate information.

regards

roman

ghostrider
24th August 2013, 15:08
hey I'd rather see people love each other than kill each other, who am I to say you can't love this or that person ??? love , peace , kindness, truth, compassion, oneness , it has to be said, our end result of awakening is oneness, truth, love, compassion, love is compassion in action ...

ROMANWKT
24th August 2013, 15:14
Jim they haven't the faintest what you are talking about, they and I mean you here on this website really are day dreamers, you have a long way to go as yet to really understand. keep on dreaming simple minds

roman

So Roman, why would you objectify the entire Avalon community as "simple minds having a long way to go" and place yourself and Jim above the rest of us?

Did someone put something in the water this morning?

I think Gripreaper we have to move on my friend, always waiting, its not good either.

roman

northstar
24th August 2013, 15:15
jiminii this sorry homophobic screed makes me feel sad for you.
GLBT people are our brothers and sisters, our mothers and fathers, our sons and daughters, our co-workers, friends and neighbors. If individuals in any group deserve criticism, so be it, but I don't hold any pre-conceived prejudice and hatred in my mind or heart toward them as a group.

I personally know GLBT people who are near and dear to my heart and to read this caustic homophobic rant makes me feel sad.

do you know people can love robots not knowing they are robots. They look real and talk real and all the rest but they go home and watch the same TV shows, go to the same restaurants, go to the same bars, and are very hard to teach.

I can take a dog and train him that only has one of these GE's in it and I will have to repeat the action again and again and again and again until if finally gets what you want

I can take another dog who also has a spirit being in besides the GE and it almost picks up what you want it to do instantly.

these people with GE only have to be constantly trained again and again and they can not create anything NEW ... they can ONLY COPE OTHERS.

THIS IS SAD TOO ... RIGHT BUT IT IS WHAT IS HERE

AND WE HAVE TO HANDLE IT ALL AS IT IS TO SALVAGE THIS SECTOR ... SO YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO CONFRONT WHAT IS REALLY HERE IF YOU WANT TO CHANGE IT

jim

Peace to you Jim.
Peace and love to you and all your relations.
May you find sweet serenity and peace of mind dear soul.
May light and peace surround you and may angelic beings of light comfort the wounds within.

ROMANWKT
24th August 2013, 15:17
jiminii this sorry homophobic screed makes me feel sad for you.
GLBT people are our brothers and sisters, our mothers and fathers, our sons and daughters, our co-workers, friends and neighbors. If individuals in any group deserve criticism, so be it, but I don't hold any pre-conceived prejudice and hatred in my mind or heart toward them as a group.

I personally know GLBT people who are near and dear to my heart and to read this caustic homophobic rant makes me feel sad.

do you know people can love robots not knowing they are robots. They look real and talk real and all the rest but they go home and watch the same TV shows, go to the same restaurants, go to the same bars, and are very hard to teach.

I can take a dog and train him that only has one of these GE's in it and I will have to repeat the action again and again and again and again until if finally gets what you want

I can take another dog who also has a spirit being in besides the GE and it almost picks up what you want it to do instantly.

these people with GE only have to be constantly trained again and again and they can not create anything NEW ... they can ONLY COPE OTHERS.

THIS IS SAD TOO ... RIGHT BUT IT IS WHAT IS HERE

AND WE HAVE TO HANDLE IT ALL AS IT IS TO SALVAGE THIS SECTOR ... SO YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO CONFRONT WHAT IS REALLY HERE IF YOU WANT TO CHANGE IT

jim

Peace to you Jim.
Peace and love to you and all your relations.
May you find sweet serenity and peace of mind dear soul.
May light and peace surround you and may angelic beings of light comfort the wounds within.

at the moment he is way ahead of you my friend.

regards

roman

gripreaper
24th August 2013, 15:22
I think Gripreaper we have to move on my friend, always waiting, its not good either. roman

In my opinion, this response is cryptic and does not address the "tone" and "color" of your previous remark.

So, who is We that you are referring to?

So, when you say "move on", from what to what? Away from what towards what? Is this a linear timeline you are referring to, and which one?

When you say "always waiting", is it YOU that is always waiting for the rest of us to catch up to your level of awakening, or who is waiting for whom?

And when you say "it's not good", which part? The gays as an expression, Jim's take on gays, this thread, manifestation itself, some aspect of this
manifestation, Avalon's level of awareness, empathy, understanding? What is IT that you perceive as "not good"?

Star Mariner
24th August 2013, 15:33
All this is all soooo wrong, misunderstood, misapplied, distorted, (and offensive) and on soooo many levels. Sorry.

I'll confront just the first issue, a real clanger:


70 percent or more do not have SPIRITS CONNECTED TO THEM so these 70 percent are basically ROBOTS

100% of human beings have spirits in them. Where there is life, there is spirit. And vice versa. Plain and simple! It is impossible for a human being to function without a soul. There would also be no purpose, as a human being is in its one and only purpose a vehicle, a 3-dimensional physical construct for a soul to experience through.

But I don't want to go overboard here. Respect to you jimini for your input and undoubted wisdom in many areas, but some of the points you bring up here are just ghastly ghastly ghastly. I can say no more.

Oh, except one other thing, regarding what more and more are beginning to believe.. this is NOT a prison planet, unless you choose to go to prison. This is the planet of FREE CHOICE, expressed through duality. No one has to come here. We that are here now have chosen to come here for the variety and richness of experience that is offers. The only thing that would 'trap' us here would be a desire to accelerate our progression, and an inherent 'need' on a higher level that would bring us back to complete (and perfect) any unfinished business we have (karma).

Sounds as you're not widely read enough to say that. No not all human are the carriers of spirit, read more appropriate information.

regards

roman

I am very well read, but of course that does not mean that everything we read (you, and me) is true. But even beyond second-hand information I feel it too: everything that is alive accommodates at least some degree of spirit-energy.

Even if a human being did not have a soul, I believe it would be even less than a robot, like a vegetable, unconscious and probably bed-ridden (which can be sometimes the case, for example a patient in Intensive Care whose body is too damaged to continue its life experience. In this instance the spirit has often fled already, and the body is only being kept 'alive' with life support systems).

ROMANWKT
24th August 2013, 15:35
I think Gripreaper we have to move on my friend, always waiting, its not good either. roman

In my opinion, this response is cryptic and does not address the "tone" and "color" of your previous remark.

So, who is We that you are referring to?

So, when you say "move on", from what to what? Away from what towards what? Is this a linear timeline you are referring to, and which one?

When you say "always waiting", is it YOU that is always waiting for the rest of us to catch up to your level of awakening, or who is waiting for whom?

And when you say "it's not good", which part? The gays as an expression, Jim's take on gays, this thread, manifestation itself, some aspect of this
manifestation, Avalon's level of awareness, empathy, understanding? What is IT that you perceive as "not good"?

Yes exactly that to all my friend.

regards roman

Billy
24th August 2013, 15:41
I feel the tone of the OP of this thread is hostile.

Bye.

Peace

gripreaper
24th August 2013, 15:45
Yes exactly that to all my friend. regards roman

Ok, you don't want to clarify, I accept that. What I don't accept is homophobia, or those who want to place themselves above the rest of us because, for some reason, their path is more enlightened, or they perceive awakening as some sort of linear projection and they find themselves further along such a scale, and therefore elevate themselves above the rest of us, and then refuse to clarify or delineate that which they mean for the rest of us.

If we are such "simple minds" with "such a long way to go" then why bother? Why wait for us, or as you say, Jim's understanding of the tone of homosexuals is empathic? really? All things are empathic that you emanate into the matrix Roman, so I should look closer into the energetic tone and timbre of your words and be able to decipher what you mean by using my energy, and therefore, those who cannot "hear you" are somehow just not tuned into the "wavelength" where you and Jim reside and therefore, no need to clarify because it would be pointless to try and clarify for such simple minds? So, we cannot be reached?

ROMANWKT
24th August 2013, 15:45
I feel the tone of the OP of this thread is hostile.

Bye.

Peace

Your feeling would be most perfectly wrong, cant handle objectiveness.

regards

roman

shadowstalker
24th August 2013, 15:46
Still wondering where this info came from?

Is it personal?
Study groups?
Channeled info?
Aliens?

ROMANWKT
24th August 2013, 15:49
Yes exactly that to all my friend. regards roman

Ok, you don't want to clarify, I accept that. What I don't accept is homophobia, or those who want to place themselves above the rest of us because, for some reason, their path is more enlightened, or they perceive awakening as some sort of linear projection and they find themselves further along such a scale, and therefore elevate themselves above the res of us, and then refuse to clarify or delineate that which they mean for the rest of us.

If we are such "simple minds" with "such a long way to go" then why bother? Why wait for us, or as you say, Jim's understanding of the tone of homosexuals is empathic? really? All things are empathic that you emanate into the matrix Roman, so I should look closer into the energetic tone and timbre of your words and be able to decipher what you mean by using my energy, and therefore, those who cannot "hear you" are somehow just not tuned into the "wavelength" where you and Jim reside and therefore, no need to clarify because it would be pointless to try and clarify for such simple minds? So, we cannot be reached?

Before you go any further, I had juat read your first line, not necessary to read the rest, there is no homophobia here, that's you're take on this, that's why I have said and repeat you don't understand, and you are pointing fingers in ignorance.

Regards

roman

jiminii
24th August 2013, 15:54
eek. Jim, you gotta toss a little sugar on your message from time to time. sure, there is a certain group of homosexuals that are deliberately flamboyant, and maybe a little annoying to folks who can't relate, but you've just objectified an entire group of people; you've tossed the baby *and the bathtub* out with the bathwater.

it's just this sort of attitude that starts those wars you've so famously claimed to have singlehandedly stopped. careful brother....careful.....


ok I said they are somewhere around this area as you go down from anger it becomes more perverted. No sympathy is just above covert hostility.

1.1 and next 1.2 is no sympathy ... a guy is in a quicksand pit and the no sympathy comes along and throws the man both ends of the rope and says "ok let's see you get out"

now the covert hostile gay probably gets some person who just had a breakup with his wife or girl friend and gives him sympathy and then starts in on the erotic sex trip. and with sex he locks in this happy sad incident that makes people compulsive about sex and the perversion is added ... the guy hates it but he likes the sex but he hates the perversion and he gets HOOKED into a aesthetic wave combined with this perversion and the hate of it,

And it hooks him. this is covert hostility.

now the covert hostile person likes to bring down the higher tones but he/she also has a lot of lower tone people they have already hooked. So if you were to go into that crowd I would suspect that he is not interested in the people he has hooked, he is interested in the person who has a lot of theta he can pull down.

this is not just GAY. this is also the butterfly guy hopping from one girl to another. They are quite like vampires in Hooking people to control them with their lies.

so we are not just talking about gay ... here .. ok?

we are talking about how the covert hostile people bring down a society.

people get sick around these covert hostile people and when you see how they fell for the twisted lies that suppress them they can break from from them

that is all this thread is about

if you want to know where the data is .. Read LRH's Science of Survival and it tells you how to spot tone levels so you don't get messed by lower tone people.

jim

shadowstalker
24th August 2013, 16:01
Then why bring up gays at all???
Let alone dragging down any group?

gripreaper
24th August 2013, 16:02
Before you go any further, I had just read your first line, not necessary to read the rest, there is no homophobia here, that's you're take on this, that's why I have said and repeat you don't understand, and you are pointing fingers in ignorance. Regards roman

Well, please excuse me for making "suppositions" about Jim's intent, and yours as well, although I was left to do so (after me asking many times for clarification), as you refused to. Using the word "homophobia" did get you to react, did it not? So, Jim's attempt to point out the energetic signature of those souls who engage in sexual activity within some energetic level which is below a certain threshold (somewhere below death) based on some "scale" (which has not been defined except to a few, I suppose), and to which Jim uses the term "gay", as a descriptor, is empathic, in your view?

Oh, and thank you for your judgement of me, categorizing me as one of the lower life forms stuck in some lower astral energy (probably with the gays)since I don't understand how energy works, or the extensive knowledge and experience which you and Jim have in regards to the higher brain centers.

I'm just ignorant and don't understand. Thanks for that Roman. This is empathy?

ROMANWKT
24th August 2013, 16:03
I was a lower tone person for 30 years, I was involved with women, that most would never match, listen to what he is saying, and understand, don't judge, don't homophobic, listen, or you will be brought down, its real and it exists.

regards

roman

JUST IN CASE, NO i WAS NOT A PIMP, NOTHING LIKE THAT.

Mike
24th August 2013, 16:04
Jim, i see. i've met people like this (that you described above). certainly these types of scenarios have occured, but it might help if you were to announce that you don't feel *all* gays are covertly hostile. i understand the concept, but you're making some very broad generalizations here.

ROMANWKT
24th August 2013, 16:05
Before you go any further, I had just read your first line, not necessary to read the rest, there is no homophobia here, that's you're take on this, that's why I have said and repeat you don't understand, and you are pointing fingers in ignorance. Regards roman

Well, please excuse me for making "suppositions" about Jim's intent, and yours as well, although I was left to do so (after me asking many times for clarification), as you refused to. Using the word "homophobia" did get you to react, did it not? So, Jim's attempt to point out the energetic signature of those souls who engage in sexual activity within some energetic level which is below a certain threshold (somewhere below death) based on some "scale" (which has not been defined except to a few, I suppose), and to which Jim uses the term "gay", as a descriptor, is empathic, in your view?

Oh, and thank you for your judgement of me, categorizing me as one of the lower life forms stuck in some lower astral energy (probably with the gays)since I don't understand how energy works, or the extensive knowledge and experience which you and Jim have in regards to the higher brain centers.

I'm just ignorant and don't understand. Thanks for that Roman. This is empathy?

No not meant that way, even if it sound like that, complicated.

regards

roman

shadowstalker
24th August 2013, 16:10
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51po3qQX5GL._SY346_.jpg

Science of Survival
The most useful book you will ever own. Built around the Hubbard Chart of Human Evaluation, Science of Survival provides the first accurate prediction of human behavior. Included on the chart are all the manifestations of an individual’s survival potential graduated from highest to lowest, making this the complete book on the Tone Scale. Knowing only one or two characteristics of a person and using this chart, you can plot his or her position on the Tone Scale and thereby know the rest, obtaining an accurate index of their entire personality, conduct and character.

Before this book the world was convinced that cases could not improve but only deteriorate. Science of Survival presents the idea of different states of case and the brand-new idea that one can progress upward on the Tone Scale.


I say the scale has some major flaws in it...
Along side with the ppl who use and misrepresent it's findings..
It's all to convenient..

A lot of LRH works are way to judgmental and self serving to gain power over many.. Just like any other religion. People have a nasty habit of using what they learn against others...

northstar
24th August 2013, 16:16
so we are not just talking about gay ... here .. ok?

we are talking about how the covert hostile people bring down a society.

people get sick around these covert hostile people and when you see how they fell for the twisted lies that suppress them they can break from from them

that is all this thread is about

jim


Awesome, Jim.
I'm really glad the thread is about "covert hostile people" and not blatant homophobia because I am happy to hear what you have to say about "covert hostile people" as long as you don't chose GLBT people to sterotype in general.

In this day and age most good, decent and enlightened people find homophobia and gay bashing pretty ugly. We need to judge individuals for their actions, and not stigmatize entire groups of people.

Jake
24th August 2013, 16:19
Jim, I am deeply saddened to know that you are so blind. Just because you walk throughout each day with deeply problematic sexual tendencies,,, that doesn't mean that everyone else does to... It would behoove you to look inward and ask yourself why!! You are projecting a reality onto others that is your own. Just because you have "your attention on other people's body parts", and "your thoughts constantly on this idea of sex no matter where you go", doesn't mean that EVERYONE ELSE HAS YOUR SAME PROBLEM!!! It is called PROJECTING!! And you should knock it off. (to put it bluntly) I would be with whoever I fell in love with,,, be it male of female. I am not in a blatantly obvious sexual theta trap!!!

Do you really walk around all day every day and fight your sexual tendencies? Maybe you are gay, and just don't know it.

Being overly political about 'coming out', is something that may or may not happen for a gay person. Leave them alone,,, If it bothers you that much,, you should look inward to find out why.. Maybe you are one too. I am not just making jokes,,, at least once, I knew a friend of mine was gay before he did. Folks tend to lash out against things they don't like about themselves.

I would suggest that you bring this discussion around to a more sane level. Blanket statements about gays will only show folks here your true colors. My instinct is to close this thread. But I think we have an opportunity to expose some blatant ignorance.

Folks, Please do not pile on, or be too harsh on Jim.. Let's try and help...

Love to all,,,
Jake.

ROMANWKT
24th August 2013, 16:28
Jim, I am deeply saddened to know that you are so blind. Just because you walk throughout each day with deeply problematic sexual tendencies,,, that doesn't mean that everyone else does to... It would behoove you to look inward and ask yourself why!! You are projecting a reality onto others that is your own. Just because you have "your attention on other people's body parts", and "your thoughts constantly on this idea of sex no matter where you go", doesn't mean that EVERYONE ELSE HAS YOUR SAME PROBLEM!!! It is called PROJECTING!! And you should knock it off. (to put it bluntly) I would be with whoever I fell in love with,,, be it male of female. I am not in a blatantly obvious sexual theta trap!!!

Do you really walk around all day every day and fight your sexual tendencies? Maybe you are gay, and just don't know it.

Being overly political about 'coming out', is something that may or may not happen for a gay person. Leave them alone,,, If it bothers you that much,, you should look inward to find out why.. Maybe you are one too. I am not just making jokes,,, at least once, I knew a friend of mine was gay before he did. Folks tend to lash out against things they don't like about themselves.

I would suggest that you bring this discussion around to a more sane level. Blanket statements about gays will only show folks here your true colors. My instinct is to close this thread. But I think we have an opportunity to expose some blatant ignorance.

Folks, Please do not pile on, or be too harsh on Jim.. Let's try and help...

Love to all,,,
Jake.

The most powerful emotion is sexual Jake, that many suffer with my friend, yes we can just ignore it as everything else, so be it.

Warmest regards Jake

roman

Delight
24th August 2013, 16:32
if you want to know where the data is .. Read LRH's Science of Survival and it tells you how to spot tone levels so you don't get messed by lower tone people.


I have never weighed in on any scientology stuff but I I feel that a LRH source is contaminated by real perversion. It uses the legal status of religion to control and subjugate. Nothing clear and whole manifests from an energy of distortion.

My experience with Scientology is not direct. Two close friends who have been married 25 years took one course BEFORE they were married. Even now they are hounded EVERY day by Scientology marketers who phone them several times a day and will NOT stop because they can get away with this constant harassment.

In fact, the more that my friends have requested to be left alone, the MORE the harassment. That is hostility.

If one wants, one can just investigate the treatment of its members to see the fruits of this belief system. In this video the basic energy of insanity (and the evil results) from LRH and the organization he created is apparent

bh_yY0-gLzo

Bill Ryan
24th August 2013, 16:36
-------

The topic of this thread is valuable. COVERT HOSTILITY needs to be understood.

Here it is:

http://projectavalon.net/Covert_Hostility.gif

But this has nothing to do with homosexuality.

This was recently published on the net. It's hilarious. On her radio show, 'Dr. Laura' [Schlesinger] had said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. Enjoy the following open letter (written by an American teacher):

:)




Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I'm confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your adoring fan,

James M. Kauffman,

Ed.D. Professor Emeritus,
Dept. Of Curriculum, Instruction, and Special Education University of Virginia

P.S. (It would be a damn shame if we couldn't own a Canadian.)

Swan
24th August 2013, 16:39
It appears to me that homosexuality is a major button pusher for you Jim.

I have a couple of issues that are big button pushers to me...one being distant fathers. This is such a hot topic for me that I am at this point not willing to listen to anybody who suggests that distant fathers can be good parents. But I do realize that I am overly emotional in this issue, so I try and keep my mouth shut until such a time when I feel more balanced about the subject. I think there is often alot of pain behind what pushes ones buttons.

I don´t mean to be condescending, just trying to say that I am sure we all have our issues where pain takes over.

I have learnt a lot from you.

Jake
24th August 2013, 16:40
Jim, I am deeply saddened to know that you are so blind. Just because you walk throughout each day with deeply problematic sexual tendencies,,, that doesn't mean that everyone else does to... It would behoove you to look inward and ask yourself why!! You are projecting a reality onto others that is your own. Just because you have "your attention on other people's body parts", and "your thoughts constantly on this idea of sex no matter where you go", doesn't mean that EVERYONE ELSE HAS YOUR SAME PROBLEM!!! It is called PROJECTING!! And you should knock it off. (to put it bluntly) I would be with whoever I fell in love with,,, be it male of female. I am not in a blatantly obvious sexual theta trap!!!

Do you really walk around all day every day and fight your sexual tendencies? Maybe you are gay, and just don't know it.

Being overly political about 'coming out', is something that may or may not happen for a gay person. Leave them alone,,, If it bothers you that much,, you should look inward to find out why.. Maybe you are one too. I am not just making jokes,,, at least once, I knew a friend of mine was gay before he did. Folks tend to lash out against things they don't like about themselves.

I would suggest that you bring this discussion around to a more sane level. Blanket statements about gays will only show folks here your true colors. My instinct is to close this thread. But I think we have an opportunity to expose some blatant ignorance.

Folks, Please do not pile on, or be too harsh on Jim.. Let's try and help...

Love to all,,,
Jake.

The most powerful emotion is sexual Jake, that many suffer with my friend, yes we can just ignore it as everything else, so be it.

Warmest regards Jake

roman

I would say the most powerful emotion is Love,,, Maybe Fear. When a powerful sexual nature, degrades into hatred, or even dislike, of entire groups of people,, then it is a problem. Not a problem with others, but a problem in and of itself. Even 'covert hostile people' may not be as covertly hostile as one would think. Again,,, projecting..

I want to make a point. This discussion was started with ugly words to an entire group of amazing people. Do you think it doesn't go unnoticed?

If there is something more intelligent that was going to be discussed, perhaps the insults to Gays should have been avoided. Frankly, I don't care what Jim thinks about gays,,, I know he is wrong. I will not allow this type of prejudice to go on without exposing it. If that is disruptive, then I apologize.

JIm,, if you want to make a point, you will have to do it without trashing Gays..

Jake.

gripreaper
24th August 2013, 16:44
It's not complicated. In the refracted light spectrum, there are differentiated tones and colors, the rainbow bridge. If a soul chooses to excavate the lower and slower frequencies during an incarnation, to experience the extreme polarized state of "red" for example, either on the positive side or the negative side of the spectrum, and this experience manifests in ways which someone else looks at their choices and judges them to be below a certain threshold, and classifies their experience as "aberrant", based on some scale ( in this case, LRH scale), this does not make it so.

"Covert" is defined as hidden, while "hostility" is an expression of an energy signature in a projected fashion towards another, an expression which is not in harmony with the soul towards which the expression is being emanated. Thus, it is hostile.

We can choose to engage this energy, or not. We can also choose to objectify it, create symbolic archetypes, label them, design scales in linear fashion, and place ourselves on the scale above or below those which we are judging.

Or, we can empathically, with understanding, let those who choose to excavate the lower astral energies of the light spectrum, experience and manifest as they choose and see fit, without judgment.

Lettherebelight
24th August 2013, 16:49
I, too, do not accept the theories of Scientology as a completely clear picture of reality...however I do not think those theories were presented without a sincere quest for Truth. I do recognise that they have helped many people gain a level of control over their personal lives and thus benefit on various levels.

The op here, however garbled, seems (I accept that I could be wrong) to be well intended rather than confrontational. I feel that 'covert violence' could equate with the term 'passive aggression'? The clever, manipulative behaviour that some will use on those of weaker strength of mind and purpose, as in sociopathic behaviour.

But also, would you say that all nurses are on that lower level of sympathy? I know some very fiesty nurses.

ROMANWKT
24th August 2013, 16:50
It's not complicated. In the refracted light spectrum, there are differentiated tones and colors, the rainbow bridge. If a soul chooses to excavate the lower and slower frequencies during an incarnation, to experience the extreme polarized state of "red" for example, either on the positive side or the negative side of the spectrum, and this experience manifests in ways which someone else looks at their choices and judges them to be below a certain threshold, and classifies their experience as "aberrant", based on some scale ( in this case, LRH scale), this does not make it so.

"Covert" is defined as hidden, while "hostility" is an expression of an energy signature in a projected fashion towards another, an expression which is not in harmony with the soul towards which the expression is being emanated. Thus, it is hostile.

We can choose to engage this energy, or not. We can also choose to objectify it, create symbolic archetypes, label them, design scales in linear fashion, and place ourselves on the scale above or below those which we are judging.

Or, we can empathically, with understanding, let those who choose to excavate the lower astral energies of the light spectrum, experience and manifest as they choose and see fit, without judgment.


I do not engage in the lower frequencies, No, that was one of my experiences.

Regards

roman

jiminii
24th August 2013, 17:09
there are a lot of variables ... I didn't think it when I picked gay ... or know what reaction I would get ...

I should have said promiscuity that would cover the covert part of both gay and heter ,.. would be more clear

so sorry about this

jim

Swan
24th August 2013, 17:10
Yep, that is more clear :)

northstar
24th August 2013, 17:11
P.S. (It would be a damn shame if we couldn't own a Canadian.)


I fully comprehend that sentiment Bill. We Canadians are world renowned for our physical prowess (gained from intensive ice hockey training), our sense of humor (we are the #1 world exporter of comedians), our funny accents (eh?) and our unfailing politeness. They love us to pieces when we travel in other countries. (I have heard it whispered that many Americans take "Canadian accent" training so as to be able to pass for Canadian while traveling in other countries, eh).

But as far as owning a Canadian?
Nah, I don't think so, but if anyone is really eager to own a Canadian, I can recommend a good place to buy a loyal Newfoundland Duck Toller - a real Canadian dog.

PS - I guarantee there is no covert hostility in this message. Honest.

ulli
24th August 2013, 17:17
I have had so many gay friends throughout my life, and my best friend who was gay just recently died, and I have been mourning his death more than a close relative who died a few days later.
But when it comes to truth I don't identify nor invest my loyalties to the point that I would slip into duality, nor call someone names (like moronic) as someone just did here earlier.

If I were identified with my gay friends I would feel the need to defend them, but what would that serve?
None of us know for sure if a permissive society is in our best interest, or not. I do know that my younger gay friends had fun lives but I have yet to meet one happy "OLD" queen.

What Jim says here must be looked at within the context of belief systems.
I did not find his post offensive, although I can see that it would be challenging,
and not only gay people but anyone who is identified with the general ideas of PC...
political correctness....which has become the religion of today.

Jim is coming from a viewpoint of a very high spirituality, eternity....and some of his ideas are strange, yet like all viewpoints, I find them interesting.
What he says fits into most religious teachings, although none of the ones I have studied give an explanation as detailed as he does.

After I left the Bahai community I found myself on forums together with other dissidents, and all of them had left for different reasons., some because the international leadership is a "men only" institution, some like myself felt that the original teachings had been distorted.
But the most vocal group had left because the Bahai Faith condemns homosexuality.
Those arguments had been going on for years.
Meanwhile the holy writings say very little about it that is specific..and Baha'u'llah Himself really only condemned sex slavery, the owning of young boys, as is still being practiced in many middle eastern countries. He never once mentioned the love between members of the same sex.
But later interpretations state that homosexuals should seek counseling, and try to become straight or live celibate lives.
That two people of the same sex could love one another, but to allow it to find expression in sexual acts should be avoided.
Bahais believe that the second chakra is to be controlled, and used more consciously, in appropriate settings, like marriage.
I don't really know what is right or wrong here, but whatever forum Im on, Im finding that topic is dividing humanity in a terrible way.
When seen from the perspective of experiencing life on earth to the fullest, then of course all experiences should be allowed, provided they don't coerce those not interested.
But when one's belief is like Jim's, that this is a prison planet, and our only goal is to get out of jail, then a completely new picture emerges. If he really believes this then one ought to consider that he only wants to help his fellow man, and means well.
But one is still free to stay with one's own belief. Jim isn't going to come and beat you up if you don't buy his story.

There are many people now who feel that they don't belong here, on this planet, and to whom all physical sensations are dubious.
People who even don't want to enjoy in the pleasures of eating and drinking either...not indulge the body in any way.

Jim is only sharing what he believes, which I think is ok, and no one should be offended.
Avalon has all sorts of beliefs offered, and far more dogmatic than he does.
But this gay issue is the hottest of them all, and his provocative post is showing up where people's buttons are.

778 neighbour of some guy
24th August 2013, 17:20
there are a lot of variables ... I didn't think it when I picked gay ... or know what reaction I would get ...

I should have said promiscuity that would cover the covert part of both gay and heter ,.. would be more clear

so sorry about this

jim

You better extent this message to Billiji Jim, you hurt him big time.

jiminii
24th August 2013, 17:32
Jim they haven't the faintest what you are talking about, they and I mean you here on this website really are day dreamers, you have a long way to go as yet to really understand. keep on dreaming simple minds

roman

So Roman, why would you objectify the entire Avalon community as "simple minds having a long way to go" and place yourself and Jim above the rest of us?

Did someone put something in the water this morning?

I came right out of source too like Inelia from the future and that is why no auditor of any level in scientology could find any past lives from me. but their meter registers there is something there. but they never looked into the future.

so coming here without an operations manual makes it a bit difficult to get all the wordings right so I look at actual life situations to get some kind of data from it.

I read stuff too and compare it with life situations. So I did make a mention of gay as covert hostile ... but also the victims of covert hostile people are not just gay. It is just one reference and I am sure there are a lot of different types of entities that are also covert hostile

I used gay as a reference because it is more easy to see the nature of covert hostile people if I show some of the characteristics that are so obvious.

but I am not trying to hit GAY as an ONLY. I just used some obvious characteristics of covert hostility using a covert hostile gay as an example.

there are covert hostile bankers and Heter too in the promiscuity band ...

so I am sorry if I offended anyone

jim

Jake
24th August 2013, 18:09
Jim.. You are one of mee favorites. I will stop faulting you for your views. I do not see people as gay or not-gay... Just people. We have much bigger fish to fry,,, methinks. I do see the value of your point about 'covert hostility'. Thank you for bringing it to the table, BTW. :) When my sister 'came out',, I was annoyed about her need to be political about it too. Just be who you are,, Period. She was sure to point out that if the world was not so hostile to gays,, then perhaps they wouldn't come out so political. Whatever,,, I don't care either way,,, I love people...

And I love you too,, Jim...

For what its worth..
Jake.

DarMar
24th August 2013, 18:29
It appears to me that homosexuality is a major button pusher for you Jim.

As i see it, guy simply stated one very big important thing and it is mostly actual as it is. And besides that mentioned homosexuals...
All except few persons actually picked that up, and rest of people turned important info into homosexual conversation.
Yes you will have bigger heart if you love homosexuals, that will make us to go easier to sleep.
And we must urge to stress equality while they have urge to stress differentiality. Isn't that a mess?
Isn't pretty evidental and factual (by this thread also) that jim is very rigth?
I'd say it's most deffinetly not him having problems with homosexuality, but pretty way arround.

Reading through Jim's thread i see he understands alot.
With one minor correction which many may have hard to believe but percentage of population with or without soul is much more than one could expect.
It is 99% w/o soul and 1% with soul and from that 1% only 1% of them is actually acting while others asleep.

Also very important fact is that human slaves are mostly controlled with sexual contents, making dogmatic case out of it.
we can start at womans makeup and end at man's underwear, it's all same preconditioning and building walls arround person.

also we most deffinetly SHOULD talk about LGBT, but as i see for now it is merely impossible.
people gets long teeth from only mentioning it. And most have nerves to say it isn't form of controll?

if it isn't self evident and well documented atleast here than i dunno what is...

chocolate
24th August 2013, 18:35
For me this thread is an example of "hostility" tendencies in all of us. Each one understood it from his/hers own perspective. Now I understand the "confront" to overcome strategy. Thank you.

I had a conversation today which was 100% an example of hostility in people. I did not get hooked in it the way it was intended. But I did see all of the involved in a new light.

I don't know where I come from, for I detect no hostility in me. Jim's words spoke to me about something far more complex than being a 'gay' is. But I tend to sense more than the obvious, so I guess it is a matter of stand point. That is just me.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

DarMar, we wrote in sync. That is good, so I am not alone.

Kano
24th August 2013, 18:36
I came right out of source too like Inelia from the future and that is why no auditor of any level in scientology could find any past lives from me. but their meter registers there is something there. but they never looked into the future.

jim

Absolute rubbish.

jiminii
24th August 2013, 19:15
It appears to me that homosexuality is a major button pusher for you Jim.

As i see it, guy simply stated one very big important thing and it is mostly actual as it is. And besides that mentioned homosexuals...
All except few persons actually picked that up, and rest of people turned important info into homosexual conversation.
Yes you will have bigger heart if you love homosexuals, that will make us to go easier to sleep.
And we must urge to stress equality while they have urge to stress differentiality. Isn't that a mess?
Isn't pretty evidental and factual (by this thread also) that jim is very rigth?
I'd say it's most deffinetly not him having problems with homosexuality, but pretty way arround.

Reading through Jim's thread i see he understands alot.
With one minor correction which many may have hard to believe but percentage of population with or without soul is much more than one could expect.
It is 99% w/o soul and 1% with soul and from that 1% only 1% of them is actually acting while others asleep.

Also very important fact is that human slaves are mostly controlled with sexual contents, making dogmatic case out of it.
we can start at womans makeup and end at man's underwear, it's all same preconditioning and building walls arround person.

also we most deffinetly SHOULD talk about LGBT, but as i see for now it is merely impossible.
people gets long teeth from only mentioning it. And most have nerves to say it isn't form of controll?

if it isn't self evident and well documented atleast here than i dunno what is...

what is LBGT?

Limor Wolf
24th August 2013, 19:22
-------

The topic of this thread is valuable. COVERT HOSTILITY needs to be understood.

Here it is:

http://projectavalon.net/Covert_Hostility.gif

But this has nothing to do with homosexuality.

This was recently published on the net. It's hilarious. On her radio show, 'Dr. Laura' [Schlesinger] had said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. Enjoy the following open letter (written by an American teacher):

:)




Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I'm confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your adoring fan,

James M. Kauffman,

Ed.D. Professor Emeritus,
Dept. Of Curriculum, Instruction, and Special Education University of Virginia

P.S. (It would be a damn shame if we couldn't own a Canadian.)


I am VERY tempted to put this in some of my neighbors mailboxes in the religious neighborhoods :)

After using gloves and stocking cap, of course


I ponder whether to keep Kauffman's signature on the letter..

Surely, in the modern days we live in, he may be able to chose himself the way he prefers to go - stoning, being strangled, being burned.

The joys of free will ~

jiminii
24th August 2013, 19:28
Jim, I am deeply saddened to know that you are so blind. Just because you walk throughout each day with deeply problematic sexual tendencies,,, that doesn't mean that everyone else does to... It would behoove you to look inward and ask yourself why!! You are projecting a reality onto others that is your own. Just because you have "your attention on other people's body parts", and "your thoughts constantly on this idea of sex no matter where you go", doesn't mean that EVERYONE ELSE HAS YOUR SAME PROBLEM!!! It is called PROJECTING!! And you should knock it off. (to put it bluntly) I would be with whoever I fell in love with,,, be it male of female. I am not in a blatantly obvious sexual theta trap!!!

Do you really walk around all day every day and fight your sexual tendencies? Maybe you are gay, and just don't know it.

Being overly political about 'coming out', is something that may or may not happen for a gay person. Leave them alone,,, If it bothers you that much,, you should look inward to find out why.. Maybe you are one too. I am not just making jokes,,, at least once, I knew a friend of mine was gay before he did. Folks tend to lash out against things they don't like about themselves.

I would suggest that you bring this discussion around to a more sane level. Blanket statements about gays will only show folks here your true colors. My instinct is to close this thread. But I think we have an opportunity to expose some blatant ignorance.

Folks, Please do not pile on, or be too harsh on Jim.. Let's try and help...

Love to all,,,
Jake.

do you ever wonder why some people you look at this part of their body and other people you look at a different part of their body and so on.

a spirit being places him/her self at the location of his/her body that she/he feels is the most attractive. So if a spirit is sitting down there between the legs then they want the person to look at that part because that is their way to attract someone to them.

I don't find this so much in Asia. I look at the head and most spirit beings here are conservative so their spirit being is near the head not down between the legs. but even in asia they have their red light districts that will do the same.

you see when someone tries to get your attention it comes from a being not a body and you find your head popping to where the being is, wondering, "why am I looking there"

i am looking there because the being is there and is trying to put my attention there,

now if I can forgive what you say about what you think I am because it is very obvious YOU JUST DON'T KNOW SO YOU PUT YOUR OWN THINK IN WHICH REALLY MUST BE YOUR OWN MIND NOT MINE THAT IS TRYING TO ACCUSE ME OF WHAT YOU DO.

jim

shadowstalker
24th August 2013, 19:31
what is LBGT?
Lesbian
Bi
Gay
Trans

short versions

jiminii
24th August 2013, 19:34
if you want to know where the data is .. Read LRH's Science of Survival and it tells you how to spot tone levels so you don't get messed by lower tone people.


I have never weighed in on any scientology stuff but I I feel that a LRH source is contaminated by real perversion. It uses the legal status of religion to control and subjugate. Nothing clear and whole manifests from an energy of distortion.

My experience with Scientology is not direct. Two close friends who have been married 25 years took one course BEFORE they were married. Even now they are hounded EVERY day by Scientology marketers who phone them several times a day and will NOT stop because they can get away with this constant harassment.

In fact, the more that my friends have requested to be left alone, the MORE the harassment. That is hostility.

If one wants, one can just investigate the treatment of its members to see the fruits of this belief system. In this video the basic energy of insanity (and the evil results) from LRH and the organization he created is apparent

bh_yY0-gLzo

scientology was infiltrated by the cabal. this doesn't make the data untrue. It just makes the managers the same as the bankers who are trying to take over the planet

jim

jiminii
24th August 2013, 19:39
I, too, do not accept the theories of Scientology as a completely clear picture of reality...however I do not think those theories were presented without a sincere quest for Truth. I do recognise that they have helped many people gain a level of control over their personal lives and thus benefit on various levels.

The op here, however garbled, seems (I accept that I could be wrong) to be well intended rather than confrontational. I feel that 'covert violence' could equate with the term 'passive aggression'? The clever, manipulative behaviour that some will use on those of weaker strength of mind and purpose, as in sociopathic behaviour.

But also, would you say that all nurses are on that lower level of sympathy? I know some very fiesty nurses.

actually probably not... maybe they are in there to hook the doctors
not sure.

jim

Delight
24th August 2013, 20:38
scientology was infiltrated by the cabal. this doesn't make the data untrue. It just makes the managers the same as the bankers who are trying to take over the planet

jim

Are you a Scientologist? As I said when I posted, I never knew anything much until recently about Scientology except that celebrities and Hollywood were involved. I once tried to read Dianetics and it was stupid in my opinion. In the last two years, friends have mentioned their daily aggravation (to this date) with this group. They have tried everything and finally now just screen the calls.

I watched the video I posted above a few months ago and since this thread came up, I have researched a bit more.

I think the behavior LRH demonstrated totally invalidates his teachings. LRH looks like a lived the life of a big fat hypocrite. He looks like he left a legacy smelling like the worst kind of con. It is easy to be a hypocrite when one is contemptuous. One uses others and unfortunately sincere people are vulnerable with too much trust and trust (which should be a valuable asset in a REAL world) is used against people often.

It is my sense that hypocrisy is about the lowest level of demonstrated behavior, a low tone. Hypocrisy belongs to the repertoire of belief that it is possible to experience a reality that can be hidden and mostly it is useful as a manipulative tool.

It seems based on the idea that one can be hidden securely so truth does not matter. Hypocrisy implies a decision that one's behavior is exempted and it is the arena of the one who is certain to be dangerous to those who operate from transparency.

My experience with the identified "covert hostile" group you have identified is long and broad. From this group, there are some of the most talented, artistic, benevolent, extraordinary humans I ever met. I have never understood why people would need to identify themselves by sexual preference except that maybe this feels better than hiding?

I have read quite a bit about the Scientology managerial organization WISE (the management branch). I have read the statements of former members. I have read quotes from LRH.

There is the most odious stuff to read about the consideration LRH had for people. People by his own words to be used a tools. I feel some empathy for the fear and loathing of self that would lead a person into entrapment of such a group.

By the way, I worked as an RN (nurse) for many years. This is a profession that is based on military rank and file as is Scientology. It is "womaned" by humans who were from infancy trained to be servers and codependent. There are some men who often more quickly rise in the ranks to supervise.

That quality of sympathy that is so demeaned is a trap. It and the fact that people get addicted to having a "good" job (in the US, MANY MANY MANY legal immigrants are nurses trained in their native countries) keep the subservient in line. It is horrifying to see how we may become debased by our beliefs.

Yes, modern allopathic medicine is an odious sick system that purports to heal people. It uses people for its own ends. However, IF you happen to land in a hospital bed, I sincerely hope you find a sympathetic nurse.

What do you make of this?



Hubbard's goal from the beginning was to "clear the planet", in other words, to see that everyone on earth became a clear. Up until the time that this happened, he envisioned a sharp demarcation in status between clears (real people) and pre-clears (deficient people). Only clears, for example, could marry and bear children.2 And if pre-clears did have children, they would most likely be taken away to avoid the "restimulative" affects that parents would have on the child.3

"Perhaps at some distant date only the unaberrated person will be granted civil rights before law. Perhaps the goal will be reached at some future time when only the unaberrated person can attain to and benefit from citizenship. These are desirable goals."4 Would pre-clears have any rights whatsoever? And what indeed would be the fate of those unfortunates who rejected Hubbard's ideas, or even spoke out against him?

These questions can be answered to some degree by looking at the organizations that Hubbard built, and the status of people within and without these organizations. Non-Scientologists are referred to by Scientologists normally as "wogs"5 or "raw meat,"6 depending on whether they were being considered generic outsiders or potential members. The judicial system in outside society was referred to as the derogatory "wog law". Outside society was an evil place surreptitiously controlled by psychiatrists, who ran the media and governments. Psychiatry had been attacking dianetics from its inception, claimed Hubbard, "because they feared that as our power increased they would lose their easy appropriations and fail in their plan for a 1984 World."7 It was to be a fight to the finish between the evil outside world and the valiant crew of Hubbardites.

The goal of a Clear Planet was always the important thing. If someone got in the way, they could be smashed. Hubbard wrote the famous "Fair Game Policy" in 1967 in which he declared that anyone caught disturbing Scientology's mission could be "tricked, sued, or lied to, or destroyed."8 Another process called R2-45 involved making a person "go exterior" (i.e. leave his body) by shooting the person in the head with a .45 pistol. Hubbard did not say to use this process, however, because "its use is frowned upon by society at this time,"9 but there have been some disturbing incidents relating to R2-45.

Hubbard created a Guardian's Office, whose members were responsible for bulldozing anything or anyone that may stand in the way of Scientology. After the G.O. was disbanded when Mary Sue Hubbard and other G.O. officers were sent to prison for infiltrating federal offices, the Office of Special Affairs took over the G.O.'s duties.

Within the organization, ethics took on strange meaning. The purpose of ethics was "TO REMOVE COUNTER INTENTIONS FROM THE ENVIRONMENT,"10 which could be interpreted to mean to remove those obstructions to the church's accomplishing its goals. A member stayed in good standing, not by being a good and moral person, but by making sure he was producing for the church - "a staff member can get away with murder so long as his statistic [i.e. work record] is up and can't sneeze without a chop if it's down."11 If the goal of a cleared planet was getting closer, and all nay-sayers and critics were silenced, then all was well in Hubbard's world, regardless of how these were accomplished.

Hubbard ruled the organization of the church like a dictator with an eye for detail. Every structure and action of every Scientologist was covered by some policy order or writing by Hubbard. These had to be strictly followed. If someone was not producing as much as was expected, he may be sent for a security check on the E-meter (a crude lie-detector) to see if he may be a subversive or suppressive person. If a member seemed to be hindered by critical parents or a spouse, he would be ordered to "disconnect," or cut off communication with, those people seen to be impeding the work of the church. Most outside interests and activities were given up to devote all possible time and energy to the church's goals. In fact, members of the Sea Org, the innermost unit of the church hierarchy, sign a form pledging to devote themselves to Scientology for the next billion years.

The church has its own penal system known as the Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF). Those who have gone through the RPF describe a system similar to conditions in a gulag, where there are scraps for food, little sleep, constant physical labor, and intense degradation.12

In short, what Hubbard created was one of the closest replicas of George Orwell's 1984 world in existence. http://www.xenu.net/archive/lrhbare/lrhbare12.html

EYES WIDE OPEN
24th August 2013, 21:09
sex itself is minus 0.8 on the tone scale ... it is a negative below death tone

It is a theta trap, (traps your thoughts constantly on this idea of sex no matter where you go). It has your attention on other people's body parts.

this is put into the creation of bodies for their compulsive survival.

but for the creator, the spirit being that created this to animate life, he never thought of it as a trap until he got trapped in it.

it is some happy said incident that spirits like to experience and so it is constantly draining them of energy that could be used more productively.

some people call this LOVE. NO LOVE IS THE DESIRE TO BE CLOSE TO ANOTHER BECAUSE OF YOUR LIKING OF THEM OR LIKES AND SIMILARITIES ARE THE SAME,

YOU JUST LIKE TO BE WITH THEM (with or without sex)

that is why it is on the minus level of the tone scale and a GE does not go below ZERO.

this means it is affected by spirit beings only. A GE (genetic entity ... ghost that creates physical bodies), has no MIND other than electronically programmed memories to operate. It is like a ROBOT. It was what REAL spirits created before they got trapped inside it. They would create a body and animate it and grow it with a GE that is also a creation that is an automatic picture recording system that the life form uses to survive from. It has a programmed personality put in it by the spirit who created it like a lion or a tiger or a dog or any other species. But this GE can NOT originate NEW THOUGHT.

a large percentage of the planet are NO GREATER THAN THE TREES OR PLANTS.

To understand this you must understand this is a prison planet. Actual Spirit beings (which are really a spirits viewpoint that is also a creation so that the spirit can extend itself into the creation of this universe from the static it is), so these actual spiritual Viewpoints are dumped here from other stars as prisoners. They are implanted to alter their memories so they can not remember who they are so they can escape from this prison.

the number of these spirit beings depends on WHO IS DUMPED HERE, not HOW MANY BODIES ARE CREATED.

the 100 percent bodies are created by GE's

70 percent or more do not have SPIRITS CONNECTED TO THEM so these 70 percent are basically ROBOTS

30 percent or Less are bodies with both GE's and Thetans (spirit beings viewpoint)

So the bodies that are created are from GE's with NO MIND ... (their mind is an automatic response mind caused by pictures, experience, and programming ONLY).

so you can estimate that more than 70 percent of the planet are ROBOTS

30 percent have SPIRIT BEINGS, (viewpoints golden balls that manage and take over the body from the spirit).

the TONE scale goes from minus 40 to Plus 40.

the tone of a GE can only go from 0 (death) to 4 ... that is 0 to 4 on the tone scale. 4 is enthusiasm.

covert hostility is between fear and and anger.

below anger the being becomes more perverted, and is leaning more to death. So people below anger would be more prone to suicide.
so anyone below anger can not be trusted.

people in fear interpret everything in life from the viewpoint of FEAR

Covert Hostility the person interprets everything from the viewpoint of (to survive I must attack everyone from the back)

from anger the person interprets everything from a viewpoint (I must fight with anger to survive).

covert hostility the person is perverting THOUGHT. He CAN"T HAVE ANGER. because HE got ANGRY one time and it PRACTICALLY DESTROYED HIS LIFE.

so he can NOT get his TONE LEVEL INTO A SURVIVAL RANGE ABOVE ANGER because he is extremely afraid of ANGER.

Get angry around GAYS and they will try to tell you to calm down and be reasonable, while they covertly tell everyone that because you are angry you are NUTS.

The PURPOSE OF COVERT HOSTILE PEOPLE IS TO GET EVERYONE'S TONE LEVEL BELOW THEM SO THEY CAN CONTROL THEM WITH THEIR LIES AND KNIFE IN THE BACK TECHNIQUES.

Gays are in the COVERT HOSTILITY range ,.. and to some degree are knife in the back people or attack from the back either with words or other means

they always make your conversations less than they are and the purpose is to bring your tone level down below them, so they can feel safe

example: you bought a new shirt. The gay will say, "oh that is a beautiful shirt you have, I have loved it for years."

he says it is beautiful but degrades it by saying it is an old shirt to make it of lower value.

You get around covert people and you will come down in tone because their words are designed to bring you down below their tone level so they can control you and feel safe.

You get around gays and their SPACE IS DIRTY, STICKY, and they push their feminism to extreme KNOWING that if bothers people. THEY KNOW it makes people feel weird and awkward and that is why they do it.

This is also why the GAYS OVER EXAGGERATE THEIR FEMINISM, TO PUT YOUR ATTENTION CONSTANTLY ON THIS BODY FUNCTION CALLED SEX,

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LOVE,

It is like a Vampire WHO can't get enough attention and so they want to trap your thoughts and energy on their weirdness

therefore, you can not trust GAYS they have perverted sex to use it for CONTROL and their hidden intention is to bring people down below them.

Since their survival is leaning towards death THEY DO NOT CARE WHO LIVES OR DIES. Put them in the News or Politics and they will follow any of these Bankers programs whether it kills everyone or not.

jim

You just highlighted what covert hostility is with your offensive post. What a terrible homophobic generalisation this is. I wonder what would happen if i made a post like this but replaced "gay" with "black".

edit. just seen your post below:


there are a lot of variables ... I didn't think it when I picked gay ... or know what reaction I would get ...

I should have said promiscuity that would cover the covert part of both gay and heter ,.. would be more clear

so sorry about this

jim

Thank you for apologising. It was needed IMO after such a homophobic, offensive post. (or one that appeared as such anyway)

Im still not convinced and will not be until this is explained and justified:



you can not trust GAYS they have perverted sex to use it for CONTROL


(there are so many things wrong with that sentence that I don't know where to start.)

I am very disturbed by the recent amount of homophobic posts here on Avalon that try to masquerade as some kind of "enlightening spiritual" post.
I might start a thread and ask people to clarify their positions to avoid any mistunderstandings.

yiolas
24th August 2013, 21:17
Hi Jiminni, I can see where your coming from, in the respect that people who over emphasize their sexuality in their daily lives ( whether they are gay or straight) are stuck in a vibrational low frequency. However, I would not categorize all gays to be in that frequency.
I feel sorry for people who can't rise above above their 1st or 2nd chakras. I was a wild child myself well into my 40's. Thank God I grew out of that stage. A lot of people though, unfortunately live out their lives in that vibration.

Jake
24th August 2013, 21:31
Edited for brevity. I love you all...

Carmen
24th August 2013, 21:47
I usually avoid threads like this where some of the participants seem to me to be fanatical in their views, (although I really like passionate people with courage of their convictions!! ) But I would have missed Bill's post 45!! It's made my day, gave me a great laugh. Thanks Bill.

Hmm, I find that a person can have a phobia and it can remain securely in place till they meet and interact with a subject of that phobia and it kind of dissipates when they realise that the person is just like them, doing the best they can in a crazy world!

DevilPigeon
24th August 2013, 22:12
-----

Call me thick, but I ain't got a scooby-doo what this thread's about.

nonesuch
24th August 2013, 22:16
Gemini. I wouldn't know where to begin to have a productive discussion with you about gay people, neo-nazism, spirituality, scientology or schizophrenia, all of which are relevant to the OP. What surprises me is your certainty that you've got it all nailed down. Good for you, buddy. But could you stop with the preaching and ranting? What with all your rage and self-preening its beginning to sound like a gay pride parade in here.

dianna
24th August 2013, 22:44
-----

Call me thick, but I ain't got a scooby-doo what this thread's about.

This thread is about a complete misunderstanding, judgment and perversion of sexuality. Sexuality is a "gift" that teaches us non duality and communion with spirit in a literal way no matter what people, gender or flavour your taste is. Sexuality is a state of mind that has nothing to do with physical bodies, or the physical people a person chooses to engage with, regardless of gender; it is about honesty and connection with others and ourselves.

gripreaper
24th August 2013, 23:35
I came right out of source too like Inelia from the future

Most of us here have spent numerous lifetimes experiencing all aspects of the electromagnetic spectrum, in the lower chakras of the root, in fear, as well as the second sacral chakra of life force, in anger, as both genders and both extremes, in relationship and out of relationship to others. We have experience which gives us empathy and understanding for those who are still excavating those tones because we have been there and done that.


so coming here without an operations manual makes it a bit difficult to get all the wordings right

Well Jim, when you come here claiming to be from the future, without any past life experience, set yourself up as a savior of the planet with special abilities to change phenomenon in an instant, such as the weather, and start teaching us about your worldview without the benefit of experience, what do you expect?


sex itself is minus 0.8 on the tone scale ... it is a negative below death tone
May I suggest you spend a couple of lifetimes here on earth experiencing the very real resonant tones of the first and second chakras within the context of sexual relationship (in conscious co-creation of course) before you make broad general statements about sexuality. Life force is energy and the amplification of life force in the second chakra, whether in relationship with another or solo, is part of being human and living on planet earth.

Why did you come here from the future? Do you have a soul contract, which has been agreed to by the collective consciousness of all the sentient beings here on this planet, who set up this game from the beginning, and who have been here since the beginning, and have agreed to remain here until the return to source is complete?

Did we agree that you should alter the game without being “in the game”?

Carmody
24th August 2013, 23:51
P.S. (It would be a damn shame if we couldn't own a Canadian.)


Canada is apparently a Rothschild fiefdom, which is why they never adopted a fiat dollar until the US/CIA/OIL/skull&bones backed Brian Mulroney brought one into effect. Canadians have been stuck with the debt created fiat dollars, ever since.

The Rothschild fiefdom aspect makes them technically unavailable as slaves, since they are owned already.

Atlas
25th August 2013, 00:04
Call me thick, but I ain't got a scooby-doo what this thread's about.

This thread is about a complete misunderstanding, judgment and perversion of sexuality. Sexuality is a "gift" that teaches us non duality and communion with spirit in a literal way no matter what people, gender or flavour your taste is. Sexuality is a state of mind that has nothing to do with physical bodies, or the physical people a person chooses to engage with, regardless of gender; it is about honesty and connection with others and ourselves.

Yes, I think jiminii was talking about single gay people, not about mature couples.

Nahifhpm9-8

Bill Ryan
25th August 2013, 01:41
I never knew anything much until recently about Scientology

Folks, here's a thread where the subject is discussed with a great deal of detail and intelligence.

Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone, Ron's Org, Planet Earth. Jim, and the Future (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-Ron-s-Org-Planet-Earth.-Jim-and-the-Future)

This thread is about COVERT HOSTILITY, which is a 'tone' or hidden attitude of disguised (concealed) intention to harm. It's a totally valid topic and is very important to understand.

Jim, stop derailing your own thread! :)

:focus:

Bill Ryan
25th August 2013, 01:57
-------

More on what Covert Hostility is about:

Every con man (or woman!), everyone who's ever tricked you or betrayed you after you trusted them, most people who seem to be very pleasant but 'aren't quite right' and 'you can't put your finger on it', every agenda-driven friendly manipulator -- they're all COVERTLY HOSTILE.

Like a snake. They slither silently in the grass, and you can't see them coming till they bite you. With an angry Momma Bear, you've got a better chance, because you can run, or yell at them as loudly as possible until they run.

People are like that too. When someone's openly ('overtly') angry, you know exactly where you stand. They're actually doing you a favor. Everything is in the open.

But someone in COVERT hostility is too afraid to be angry, and too angry to be afraid. They're caught between the two. So they hide.

Because they hide, and pretend to be something they're not (like supportive, kind and friendly), they can be very sneaky and hard to detect. And very damaging indeed.

Learning how to spot them is as useful as learning to pick out where the snakes are, out in the wilderness, before they crawl into your tent (or, in human terms, crawl into your life).

This is what this thread is about, or should be about. Learning how to spot the silent predators, knowing when to kick someone out of your life (or your business) before they steal everything you have.

shadowstalker
25th August 2013, 02:06
Well that was cut and clear, i understood that perfectly...
NO gender bashing no group bashing.
No religion, no politics.
Just straight to the point..
And no judgments
AWESOME..

Rahkyt
25th August 2013, 02:18
Well, I think I'll add my two cents here since the reaction to the example used in the OP has died down.

It is a very important topic. So important because it is so pervasive and so oppressive at the level of energy vampirism. Covert hostility is aggression, pure and simple. Fear and anger projected as reasonableness, with just an edge of psychic intrusion that either produces an immediate reactionary response of self-defense or capitulation, whereby one responds also in a covert manner or one accepts the aggression and internalizes it. They then are giving the covertly aggressive person an in-road and, basically, allowing them to stick their psychic straw into your effervescent reservoir of energy, thereafter withdrawing at will, either sipping leisurely or going all in and withdrawing with ever-increasingly hostile and overtly aggressive communications tactics.

I understand why Jim used the example he used, everyone has witnessed it. To use another example that is closer to my experience, some black people in corporate America become covertly hostile in their dealings with their peers and others. Because to be overtly hostile is to risk losing a job. Fear, anger. Fear of losing a job, anger at being passed over for promotions, for seeing people they've trained move higher than them, for dealing with the day in and day out indignities of being Other in the majority culture.

That hostility is seen in fast food restaurants, where people who need their job but don't want to be there are a constant source of aggression that put you immediately either on the defensive or offensive when encountering them, depending again upon your own personal inclinations. And, again, this is all energy transfer, energy vampirism, it is putting you at a disadvantage whenever you encounter it if you make the choices already pointed out in response to it. The other choice to make in regards to it? Well, that will bring up shades of self-control (mental and emotional) and enlightenment (meditation, gnosis) pathways.

It's seen in retail stores and elsewhere, it is so pervasive in our lives and in this world that this is, indeed, a very important topic to discuss. These characteristics can be applied to many different populations and sub-populations, cultures and sub-cultures, because it is so very widespread. Another level of energy drain for the Archontic system.

Just shortly, I will have to concur with Jimini and 1 other (DarMar, I think) about the soulless folk. Not everybody walking around in a body is what they seem to be.

northstar
25th August 2013, 02:47
-------

More on what Covert Hostility is about:

Every con man (or woman!), everyone who's ever tricked you or betrayed you after you trusted them, most people who seem to be very pleasant but 'aren't quite right' and 'you can't put your finger on it', every agenda-driven friendly manipulator -- they're all COVERTLY HOSTILE.

Like a snake. They slither silently in the grass, and you can't see them coming till they bite you. With an angry Momma Bear, you've got a better chance, because you can run, or yell at them as loudly as possible until they run.

People are like that too. When someone's openly ('overtly') angry, you know exactly where you stand. They're actually doing you a favor. Everything is in the open.

But someone in COVERT hostility is too afraid to be angry, and too angry to be afraid. They're caught between the two. So they hide.

Because they hide, and pretend to be something they're not (like supportive, kind and friendly), they can be very sneaky and hard to detect. And very damaging indeed.

Learning how to spot them is as useful as learning to pick out where the snakes are, out in the wilderness, before they crawl into your tent (or, in human terms, crawl into your life).

This is what this thread is about, or should be about. Learning how to spot the silent predators, knowing when to kick someone out of your life (or your business) before they steal everything you have.


This description sounds a lot like some extremely passive-aggressive people I have known- a very "difficult" personality to deal with, in my opinion. I worked with a passive-aggressive man for 10 years and he did a number of things to destroy my career.

Remarkably, I was unaware of this for years. I simply assumed that all of the problems I was encountering were my own fault. Even after some evidence of his actions began to leak out, however, I could not comprehend the full extent of his backstabbing, lying and attacks. Looking back, I think it is because my mind simply doesn't work that way! I generally assume that people are good so I gave him the benefit of the doubt for years when he was actively damaging my career and making my working life miserable behind my back.

After he retired my job got immediately better. I felt better, I was happier and more productive. I had more energy, more drive, I liked my job again. I really didn't fully "connect the dots" until I realized that the last time I felt that way in my job was before he started working there!

Then the lightbulb went on and the dots connected into a big ole' arrow pointing to him! It shocked me but all the pieces fell into place. He certainly had been a poisonous snake in the grass all those years. Yuck!

Is this what you mean, Bill?

Bill Ryan
25th August 2013, 02:57
Is this what you mean, Bill?

Yes! Exactly so.

This is the topic of a thread with this title. And it's a really important one, because if they taught this stuff in school, millions of lives would not be trashed and sucked dry by these people.

They feed like parasites on good, honest folks whose nature it is to give others the benefit of the doubt, and that's what they count on -- until it's too late.




[...a quite wonderful post...]



Rahkyt, you nailed it.

:)

Carmen
25th August 2013, 03:07
Bells Bells! I'm learning stuff here. You have just described a friendship I had a couple of years ago!

Fellow Aspirant
25th August 2013, 03:14
I have tried to follow the train of thought in this screed, Jim, but it hurts my brain.

eaglespirit
25th August 2013, 03:43
I don't usually post on threads like this where there is a situation or multiple situations...unless I'm really called to.
Let me try to explain this my way the best I may.
You see, each of us have come here on this planet from a place of knowing, that is...many different places of knowing and at many different degrees. Some having more, some having less, some having, well, minimal or what could be considered almost none, with a handicap that makes it just about impossible to right or correct while here. Some are here not to right or correct anything because of where they're from and what they are made up of...so be it.
Many of us are here to help those that are in the arenas of more "stuckness" than ourselves if we find our own way to get "unstuck" enough. Some of us have been here many times to do this...others have not. You can figure that one out quickly and understand why I am posting here. We are all in this together separately irregardless.
We have the opportunity and ability to right more than has ever been righted at this particular time and in this particular place as never before in time or non-time or whatever and what we help right is going to change a whole lot of matters in all of the places everywhere...especially and including those places we are from... and the more we make right, now, the more acceleration will be added to this very positive about to be outcome. The more that is righted here the more we can each go about helping to bring beauty to places beyond our own joyful imaginations as this current "outcome" here on earth culminates.
So it does not matter really how situations are brought out and by who and where they're from or what degree of knowing or how much time they have had on earth experiencing the particular things unique to this place...just as long as they are brought out to be righted because we can right just about everything that is wrong now because it has become that "unique" of a time here because many, many, many wrongs have accumulated and are now getting squeezed through a wonderful righting bottleneck and it is about to explode out the other side to the higher side...and we are ALL going with it.
So let's get as many things right as we possibly can while we can.
I Love You All!

...and now I'll go read the rest of the current posts.

jiminii
25th August 2013, 03:53
scientology was infiltrated by the cabal. this doesn't make the data untrue. It just makes the managers the same as the bankers who are trying to take over the planet

jim

Are you a Scientologist? As I said when I posted, I never knew anything much until recently about Scientology except that celebrities and Hollywood were involved. I once tried to read Dianetics and it was stupid in my opinion. In the last two years, friends have mentioned their daily aggravation (to this date) with this group. They have tried everything and finally now just screen the calls.

I watched the video I posted above a few months ago and since this thread came up, I have researched a bit more.

I think the behavior LRH demonstrated totally invalidates his teachings. LRH looks like a lived the life of a big fat hypocrite. He looks like he left a legacy smelling like the worst kind of con. It is easy to be a hypocrite when one is contemptuous. One uses others and unfortunately sincere people are vulnerable with too much trust and trust (which should be a valuable asset in a REAL world) is used against people often.

It is my sense that hypocrisy is about the lowest level of demonstrated behavior, a low tone. Hypocrisy belongs to the repertoire of belief that it is possible to experience a reality that can be hidden and mostly it is useful as a manipulative tool.

It seems based on the idea that one can be hidden securely so truth does not matter. Hypocrisy implies a decision that one's behavior is exempted and it is the arena of the one who is certain to be dangerous to those who operate from transparency.

My experience with the identified "covert hostile" group you have identified is long and broad. From this group, there are some of the most talented, artistic, benevolent, extraordinary humans I ever met. I have never understood why people would need to identify themselves by sexual preference except that maybe this feels better than hiding?

I have read quite a bit about the Scientology managerial organization WISE (the management branch). I have read the statements of former members. I have read quotes from LRH.

There is the most odious stuff to read about the consideration LRH had for people. People by his own words to be used a tools. I feel some empathy for the fear and loathing of self that would lead a person into entrapment of such a group.

By the way, I worked as an RN (nurse) for many years. This is a profession that is based on military rank and file as is Scientology. It is "womaned" by humans who were from infancy trained to be servers and codependent. There are some men who often more quickly rise in the ranks to supervise.

That quality of sympathy that is so demeaned is a trap. It and the fact that people get addicted to having a "good" job (in the US, MANY MANY MANY legal immigrants are nurses trained in their native countries) keep the subservient in line. It is horrifying to see how we may become debased by our beliefs.

Yes, modern allopathic medicine is an odious sick system that purports to heal people. It uses people for its own ends. However, IF you happen to land in a hospital bed, I sincerely hope you find a sympathetic nurse.

What do you make of this?



Hubbard's goal from the beginning was to "clear the planet", in other words, to see that everyone on earth became a clear. Up until the time that this happened, he envisioned a sharp demarcation in status between clears (real people) and pre-clears (deficient people). Only clears, for example, could marry and bear children.2 And if pre-clears did have children, they would most likely be taken away to avoid the "restimulative" affects that parents would have on the child.3

"Perhaps at some distant date only the unaberrated person will be granted civil rights before law. Perhaps the goal will be reached at some future time when only the unaberrated person can attain to and benefit from citizenship. These are desirable goals."4 Would pre-clears have any rights whatsoever? And what indeed would be the fate of those unfortunates who rejected Hubbard's ideas, or even spoke out against him?

These questions can be answered to some degree by looking at the organizations that Hubbard built, and the status of people within and without these organizations. Non-Scientologists are referred to by Scientologists normally as "wogs"5 or "raw meat,"6 depending on whether they were being considered generic outsiders or potential members. The judicial system in outside society was referred to as the derogatory "wog law". Outside society was an evil place surreptitiously controlled by psychiatrists, who ran the media and governments. Psychiatry had been attacking dianetics from its inception, claimed Hubbard, "because they feared that as our power increased they would lose their easy appropriations and fail in their plan for a 1984 World."7 It was to be a fight to the finish between the evil outside world and the valiant crew of Hubbardites.

The goal of a Clear Planet was always the important thing. If someone got in the way, they could be smashed. Hubbard wrote the famous "Fair Game Policy" in 1967 in which he declared that anyone caught disturbing Scientology's mission could be "tricked, sued, or lied to, or destroyed."8 Another process called R2-45 involved making a person "go exterior" (i.e. leave his body) by shooting the person in the head with a .45 pistol. Hubbard did not say to use this process, however, because "its use is frowned upon by society at this time,"9 but there have been some disturbing incidents relating to R2-45.

Hubbard created a Guardian's Office, whose members were responsible for bulldozing anything or anyone that may stand in the way of Scientology. After the G.O. was disbanded when Mary Sue Hubbard and other G.O. officers were sent to prison for infiltrating federal offices, the Office of Special Affairs took over the G.O.'s duties.

Within the organization, ethics took on strange meaning. The purpose of ethics was "TO REMOVE COUNTER INTENTIONS FROM THE ENVIRONMENT,"10 which could be interpreted to mean to remove those obstructions to the church's accomplishing its goals. A member stayed in good standing, not by being a good and moral person, but by making sure he was producing for the church - "a staff member can get away with murder so long as his statistic [i.e. work record] is up and can't sneeze without a chop if it's down."11 If the goal of a cleared planet was getting closer, and all nay-sayers and critics were silenced, then all was well in Hubbard's world, regardless of how these were accomplished.

Hubbard ruled the organization of the church like a dictator with an eye for detail. Every structure and action of every Scientologist was covered by some policy order or writing by Hubbard. These had to be strictly followed. If someone was not producing as much as was expected, he may be sent for a security check on the E-meter (a crude lie-detector) to see if he may be a subversive or suppressive person. If a member seemed to be hindered by critical parents or a spouse, he would be ordered to "disconnect," or cut off communication with, those people seen to be impeding the work of the church. Most outside interests and activities were given up to devote all possible time and energy to the church's goals. In fact, members of the Sea Org, the innermost unit of the church hierarchy, sign a form pledging to devote themselves to Scientology for the next billion years.

The church has its own penal system known as the Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF). Those who have gone through the RPF describe a system similar to conditions in a gulag, where there are scraps for food, little sleep, constant physical labor, and intense degradation.12

In short, what Hubbard created was one of the closest replicas of George Orwell's 1984 world in existence. http://www.xenu.net/archive/lrhbare/lrhbare12.html

it looks like a lot of this stuff has been altered by those that took over the church. LRH knew that there were sleeper children inside the church that were being controlled by mind control from the reptilians and when they grow up and wake up they will take over the church from the inside. He setup david miscavage to take over the church and remove the upper OT levels (spiritual power levels), so that the reptilians and cabal could not get any of these OT powers. then he had david handle his body in a special way so he would be able to escape the force fields of the planet and go back to central command in the galactic confederation and report his findings of the reptilians illegal methods of trying to take over this planet. Since then this area has been sanctioned "FREE ZONE" and no other alien nations are allowed to interfere with the development of the planet. Therefore the planet is ours to take but WE HAVE TO TAKE IT.

BUT WHO IS GOING TO DO THIS??? This period of time has already happened. we are doing a rerun to stop the reptilians from their take over. After this sanction they have been stopped. So then about 70 million brand new spirits out of the static (source) itself (like Inelia and me) were sent back to this time to raise the vibrations of the planet. This would raise the theta level up to a point where the reptilians can't operate at and we could take back our planet.

We are doing that now.

jim

Delight
25th August 2013, 03:57
Well that was cut and clear, i understood that perfectly...
NO gender bashing no group bashing.
No religion, no politics.
Just straight to the point..
And no judgments
AWESOME..

Now I get the point too. Maggie

Bill Ryan
25th August 2013, 04:03
-------



[... a lot of stuff about scientology that's interesting and very probably true, but is on totally the wrong thread ...]



:focus:

Agape
25th August 2013, 04:16
Covert hostility is something like a collection of antigens , there may be thousands of them and it goes really deep to your blood and genetic past ( speaking of antigens not extraterrestrials this time, beware the attempt of joke ).

That's a biological explanation of course but in life , many psycho-logical items are actually firstly bio-logical , that's why they may be extremely difficult to work out in certain cases .
There are hidden antigens , thousands of them associated with certain foods, smells, vibrational levels, colours, types of behaviour , tones of voice , plants, animals, minerals and types of humans . Very few of them are active when your human body is born ,
but many are turned on during your life when you are confronted with say, epigenetic source of the agent, previously known to be hostile to one of your remote ancestors . The trick is, they may not be hostile to you anymore and they probably aren't but if your DNA can not decide , the easiest way to react is to start chain of covertly immune reaction that at the end looks like : oh i really can not stand the place, the person, the food etc .

Yes of course it has lots to do with sex as well because sex is an expression of love and proximity , not meaning the physical act even, simply joining hands or sharing your chair with the other person can be enough to share your love and covert biological information with them .

And whilst love and friendship are our TRUE nature , and we silently presume that we are able to love everything living because we were created with benevolent and intelligent intent and we should be able to get together ( looking at todays world it does not look like that )
our history is equally true to us . It shapes what we like and warns us from what is dangerous .

And so we come real close to people who feel loveable at first glance and induce allergic reaction in us , at some point when we least expect it or vice versa, and we are even not able to tell them at first but at some point , confronting your own genes becomes inevitable and you start to shout or run where you should have been quiet and it's clear that something's got wrong .

This simply says that I'm not in favour of 'right people' and 'wrong people' theory . Mankind is a unique collection of unique characters . Extremely complicated by the fact that everyone carries set of their ancestors unique past that has mutated in him to something yet more unique and we have to deal with the complication, more of us coming together .

When you can tolerate the other person at 99% rate and vice versa ( both ) , you're a close match, that's why ( maybe ) some siblings , relatives and even homo-sexual loves are love because you can understand each other well .

On the other hand ... without a strong immunity , mankind would not survive very long and that's they key answer for many so called 'macho strong humans' who are mostly straight people ( though some can probably even 'stand' being opposite or anything else ) , because they can control their immunity reaction to very good level and can't be simply bothered .

There is not one answer to everything and never will be ...that's why discussions exist .

The Old Testament Jews , Indian Brahmins and many other old and orthodox groups had one type of answers that may look outdated in our modern society and those answers to the problem was keeping to rules and precepts,
knowing that if you keep to those rules and precepts, wash your hand regularly, don't eat certain foods at certain times, don't touch people and animals at the same time, even don't cook some plants together and other silly things, you can avoid turning on your super duper immunity switches that feels like 'negativity' and you can feel 'pure' and calm .

This type of approach shaped whole long lineages of purely sensitive people who knew how to live in balance in their environments ( but almost inevitably failed to do so when climate and environment changed in long run and those beautiful lineages degenerated ) .

The other type of answers , told to be more advanced are embedded in the esoteric teachings as well as many new-age type of every old society , where the advice simply is , learn to accept as many things as you can as your own , and try to learn to control your immunity reaction , control your aggression, love your ( smelly noisy half educated ) neighbours, when you are shot at , don't shoot .

Personally, I think that that both approaches are useful and necessary to a big deal and future mankind will have to understand and utilise both if you want to live on one planet .



And of course, as usually .. where do I fall in it .... is land of unknown ..for most, enough to say that as very sensitive individual and outsider to many 'human traits and chains' , I am confronted with this sense of misconceptions about 'where do I come from' for most of my life, from both ladies and gentlemen, who feel a strange sense of sudden 'knowing' , call it impression about my existence , sense of closeness or strangeness based on the little error you get in brain each time when meeting with unknown . I'm sure you all experience the phenomenon to a deal as well . But it can feel indeed very odd, like people mistaking you automatically for who you are not. Sorry for that interjection and self -defensive .

I do not call that hostility , it's mostly an error . Imagine a battlefield and you were taught or told to fire at someone who would be your best friend in life.
You were 'ordered' to bully someone whom you never tried to understand and who loved you .
It's more often the case than otherwise. Sad but true.


:wave:

Strat
25th August 2013, 04:37
Hypothetically speaking, if someone were to be covertly hostile/passive aggressive how would they 'fix' this? How would they know this?

eaglespirit
25th August 2013, 04:50
Hypothetically speaking, if someone were to be covertly hostile/passive aggressive how would they 'fix' this? How would they know this?

Hi Strat, wishing You well :)

If You re-read Rahkyt's post and my post above You will see that You can correct these things right in front of You when they occur, that is one way to do it personally....just simply letting the party that is committing the act know that You see through what they are doing and that it is not necessary or 'called for' for them to do it while You are in the mix because it simply 'does not rub' with You!
Just try to get a situation You are in as straight as You know how or are prompted to in that moment.

Ernie Nemeth
25th August 2013, 04:53
After five pages I still don't know what scale you are talking about. What is this tone that one can be lower than death? How is that pertinent to anything? Why are tones being talked about as if everyone should know what that is. Or do I have to read all of your threads before I find the answer? Why is any of this being talked of as if it is fact? Bodies without spirits, you say, and 99% don't have a spirit? Then I must be very lucky because everyone I know has a spirit.
How is a body animated without spirit anyway?

And since I'm at it, how can you be cleared if you had no past to clear? And if they did not clear your future how can you be clear? Just curious.

Everyone can be covertly hostile. Is it really a continuous state for so many? I am finding none of this helpful. But it's late and I'm tired, I might see things a bit more clearly in the morning. Maybe tomorrow I can come to grips with homosexuals being lower than death in your tone scale.

jiminii
25th August 2013, 06:07
22537
22536



This is tone scale of human emotions
GE goes from zero death to 4 enthusiasm
spirit goes from - 40 to plus 40

jim

ROMANWKT
25th August 2013, 06:14
Hi Jiminni, I can see where your coming from, in the respect that people who over emphasize their sexuality in their daily lives ( whether they are gay or straight) are stuck in a vibrational low frequency. However, I would not categorize all gays to be in that frequency.
I feel sorry for people who can't rise above above their 1st or 2nd chakras. I was a wild child myself well into my 40's. Thank God I grew out of that stage. A lot of people though, unfortunately live out their lives in that vibration.

Thank you Yiolas, you put it better than I did, it can be hell on earth, one was never a danger to anybody, only to yourself, a horrible low state.

Regards to you Yiolas

roman

Carmen
25th August 2013, 06:58
Jimini, can you please replicate the tone scale of yours so it can be read. Looks fascinating but I can't read the fine print!

ROMANWKT
25th August 2013, 07:23
Jimini, can you please replicate the tone scale of yours so it can be read. Looks fascinating but I can't read the fine print!

Hi carmen

If you press the pics, they will enlarge, then right click and save as images.

regards

roman

Carmen
25th August 2013, 07:42
Yes, I can enlarge them on my iPad but they are still unreadable.

jiminii
25th August 2013, 07:54
there is one already made in the jiminii threads ... but I have to look for it

jim

panopticon
25th August 2013, 08:55
Yes, I can enlarge them on my iPad but they are still unreadable.

Carmen, they are available on the scientology handbook website:
http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/FULL.HTM

-- Pan

Bill Ryan
25th August 2013, 10:49
-------




http://projectavalon.net/emotional_tone_scale.jpg



The Tone of Covert Hostility (sandwiched and very much trapped between the 'Fear' band and the 'Anger' band) is this:

http://projectavalon.net/covert_hostility.gif

northstar
25th August 2013, 10:51
I just spent some time reading the materials at the link posted above. Wow I wish it had been presented this way in the initial post of this thread.
This is the first time I have ever visited a scientology website. All my life I was told that scientology was a dangerous cult so I completely avoided it but this material is quite interesting and makes a lot of sense.
A quick read of these pages (they are short and easy) will give you a good grasp of the tone scale, and where exactly "covert hostility" sits on the tone scale. Read them in order for better comprehension!

http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/SH4_1.HTM The tone scale, quick overview
http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/SH4_2.HTM The tone scale in full, brief explanation
http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/FULL.HTM The tone scale, large full diagram - this is fascinating! If you look at nothing else here, take a quick perusal of this interesting diagram.
http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/SH4_2A.HTM Characteristics on the tone scale
http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/SH4_3.HTM Observing the obvious. Here the author discusses how it is important to train yourself to accurately see what is in front of you.

Reading through this material I am understanding it from my own mental framework. I notice that the tone scale reminds me of something I learned from Abraham Hicks. Esther Hicks talks about a scale of emotion and she teaches that if you can't be happy at least try to get yourself a little closer to it, as that will improve your vibration. If you are angry, a movement toward calmness is an improvement in your vibrational reality, etc. That made a lot of sense to me when I first heard her talk about it but now I wonder if she got the concept from the scientology tone scale.

Fred Steeves
25th August 2013, 12:25
The transformation of this thread is giving me a fine chuckle as I sit sipping coffee this beautiful Sunday morning. It very much reminds me of how say, the President, never actually says or does anything wrong. It can and is easily dismissed or explained, so that he is never really held accountable.

Here are a couple of my favorites: "While the President may have spoken inartfully, what he was implying is very important for the American people to understand". Or: "The President possesses brilliant insight into these matters, but is also very nuanced, making it difficult at times in getting his message across to the average voter. What he meant to say was..."

In political circles this is known as "spin", in my circles at least, it's known by the old adage:"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle em with bulls**t".

l fully realize it's improper to point out the emperor's lack of clothing, just noticing a trend is all.

Most of us are obliged to either stand by our words, or retract them. Others, not so much...

Billy
25th August 2013, 12:29
-------

More on what Covert Hostility is about:

Every con man (or woman!), everyone who's ever tricked you or betrayed you after you trusted them, most people who seem to be very pleasant but 'aren't quite right' and 'you can't put your finger on it', every agenda-driven friendly manipulator -- they're all COVERTLY HOSTILE.

Like a snake. They slither silently in the grass, and you can't see them coming till they bite you. With an angry Momma Bear, you've got a better chance, because you can run, or yell at them as loudly as possible until they run.

People are like that too. When someone's openly ('overtly') angry, you know exactly where you stand. They're actually doing you a favor. Everything is in the open.

But someone in COVERT hostility is too afraid to be angry, and too angry to be afraid. They're caught between the two. So they hide.

Because they hide, and pretend to be something they're not (like supportive, kind and friendly), they can be very sneaky and hard to detect. And very damaging indeed.

Learning how to spot them is as useful as learning to pick out where the snakes are, out in the wilderness, before they crawl into your tent (or, in human terms, crawl into your life).

This is what this thread is about, or should be about. Learning how to spot the silent predators, knowing when to kick someone out of your life (or your business) before they steal everything you have.

Thank you for this explanation Bill.


You people that object to real reality are so narrow minded its unbelievable,

you really don't understand what is being said to you,

you are really from another planet, , get it, it is so.


roman


Jim they haven't the faintest what you are talking about, they and I mean you here on this website really are day dreamers, you have a long way to go as yet to really understand. keep on dreaming simple minds

roman



Sounds as you're not widely read enough to say that.

regards

roman




I think Gripreaper we have to move on
roman



at the moment he is way ahead of you my friend.

regards

roman



I feel the tone of the OP of this thread is hostile.

Bye.

Peace

Your feeling would be most perfectly wrong, cant handle objectiveness.

regards

roman




Yes exactly that to all my friend. regards roman

Ok, you don't want to clarify, I accept that. What I don't accept is homophobia, or those who want to place themselves above the rest of us because, for some reason, their path is more enlightened, or they perceive awakening as some sort of linear projection and they find themselves further along such a scale, and therefore elevate themselves above the rest of us, and then refuse to clarify or delineate that which they mean for the rest of us.

If we are such "simple minds" with "such a long way to go" then why bother? Why wait for us, or as you say, Jim's understanding of the tone of homosexuals is empathic? really? All things are empathic that you emanate into the matrix Roman, so I should look closer into the energetic tone and timbre of your words and be able to decipher what you mean by using my energy, and therefore, those who cannot "hear you" are somehow just not tuned into the "wavelength" where you and Jim reside and therefore, no need to clarify because it would be pointless to try and clarify for such simple minds? So, we cannot be reached?

Before you go any further, I had juat read your first line, not necessary to read the rest, there is no homophobia here, that's you're take on this, that's why I have said and repeat you don't understand, and you are pointing fingers in ignorance.

Regards

roman

Mirror reflections right enough.


I was a lower tone person for 30 years, I was involved with women, that most would never match, listen to what he is saying, and understand, don't judge, don't homophobic, listen, or you will be brought down, its real and it exists.

regards

roman

JUST IN CASE, NO i WAS NOT A PIMP, NOTHING LIKE THAT.




The most powerful emotion is sexual Jake, that many suffer with my friend, yes we can just ignore it as everything else, so be it.

Warmest regards Jake

roman

Ah the bliss of celebicy.




I would say the most powerful emotion is Love,,, Maybe Fear. When a powerful sexual nature, degrades into hatred, or even dislike, of entire groups of people,, then it is a problem.

I want to make a point. This discussion was started with ugly words to an entire group of amazing people. Do you think it doesn't go unnoticed?


JIm,, if you want to make a point, you will have to do it without trashing Gays..

Jake. I agree Jake. Thank you




I do not engage in the lower frequencies, :whistle:

Regards

roman

Ah Judgement yes we have to be careful. I rest my case. :boink:




there are a lot of variables ... I didn't think it when I picked gay ... or know what reaction I would get ...

I should have said promiscuity that would cover the covert part of both gay and heter ,.. would be more clear

so sorry about this

jim

I appreciate the sorry Jim, but why did you not think or know what reaction you would get before you leaped. The mind boggles.

Lessons on covert hostility to be learned.

peace

ulli
25th August 2013, 13:05
Hypothetically speaking, if someone were to be covertly hostile/passive aggressive how would they 'fix' this? How would they know this?

Good question. I was in my late twenties when I discovered that I had this tendency,
and had just moved from wholesale to open my first retail shop, which meant meeting the public.
Wholesale meant dealing only with my trusted employees, and some very cool buyers,
all of whom I loved and had a great relationship with,
but when selling directly to the public one meets all kinds of people one might normally never interact with.
And since they were clients of mine I could never really express what I thought or felt about them.
My social circle were also fashion designers...all males, I never had women friends...
and we were always backbiting. It was a way of life, and just as Jim described.
After my awakening at age 28 I saw this for what it was, and started not participating,
as I found it unfulfilling, and that's when quite a few of them turned on me.
I had become spiritual, and was seeing a new world, one in which my own soul survival was at stake.
Before my awakening this had not been an issue, and I was not aware of what I was doing.

Covert hostility is basically backbiting...it is destructive to the fabric of community,
and as such should be avoided at all cost.

Carmen
25th August 2013, 13:32
Thanks for putting up the tone chart so I could read it Bill. One thing I have noticed on my spiritual journey is that after much learning, reading, experiencing and applying my emotions are 'even'. Back before I started on my spirit quest outside events would cause me to be "excited" or "downcast". When the emotions are understood and ruled over, the state of contentedness, joy and happiness is a constant. It's an inner thing. The mind is clear and present.

Bill Ryan
25th August 2013, 13:38
-------

Actually, in his post #103 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62627-Covert-Hostility-..the-Tone-Level-...-WHAT-IT-IS&p=719832&viewfull=1#post719832) above, Fred was being covertly hostile. :)

It's a perfect demonstration. Fred is hostile to and critical of Jim (very much so), but couched it all in cheery, apparently friendly, disguise. That's because it's important to Fred to present himself as a very nice guy. Everything he said in his post was indirect, and covertly a little barbed. This is no crime, but it does have an effect on those reading it.

(Fred, do you see? This doesn't look very good to others. It runs the risk, from your point of view, of making them feel uneasy about your intentions and not trusting your straightforwardness. You'd come over much better if you stated openly how you felt, but in a responsible way. Something like this: )



It seems to me that Jim really messed up in this thread. Then Bill had to come and rescue him from his many faux pas, completely clarifying the original concept. He did that well, and I appreciated it.

I also notice that Bill has himself not been critical of Jim, and is being characteristically positive -- except that he asked Jim to stick to his own topic, which of course he should. I wonder what Bill really thinks, and I would like to know.

Star Mariner
25th August 2013, 13:45
-------

More on what Covert Hostility is about:

Every con man (or woman!), everyone who's ever tricked you or betrayed you after you trusted them, most people who seem to be very pleasant but 'aren't quite right' and 'you can't put your finger on it', every agenda-driven friendly manipulator -- they're all COVERTLY HOSTILE.

Like a snake. They slither silently in the grass, and you can't see them coming till they bite you. With an angry Momma Bear, you've got a better chance, because you can run, or yell at them as loudly as possible until they run.

People are like that too. When someone's openly ('overtly') angry, you know exactly where you stand. They're actually doing you a favor. Everything is in the open.

But someone in COVERT hostility is too afraid to be angry, and too angry to be afraid. They're caught between the two. So they hide.

Because they hide, and pretend to be something they're not (like supportive, kind and friendly), they can be very sneaky and hard to detect. And very damaging indeed.

Learning how to spot them is as useful as learning to pick out where the snakes are, out in the wilderness, before they crawl into your tent (or, in human terms, crawl into your life).

This is what this thread is about, or should be about. Learning how to spot the silent predators, knowing when to kick someone out of your life (or your business) before they steal everything you have.


All of that is well said, and I thank you Bill. So what this is talking about is basically a 'sociopath'.

What a difference the above description is though, without all the scientology jargon, or the completely unwarranted and unjustified denigration of gay people.. so much of the op was spent there, that it took about 4 pages to even touch on the supposed theme as indicated by the thread title.

turiya
25th August 2013, 13:52
-------
Actually, in his post #103 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62627-Covert-Hostility-..the-Tone-Level-...-WHAT-IT-IS&p=719832&viewfull=1#post719832) above, Fred was being covertly hostile. :)

It's a perfect demonstration. Fred is hostile to and critical of Jim (very much so), but couched it all in cheery, apparently friendly, disguise. That's because it's important to Fred to present himself as a very nice guy. Everything he said in his post was indirect, and covertly a little barbed. This is no crime, but it does have an effect on those reading it.

(Fred, do you see? This doesn't look very good to others. It runs the risk, from your point of view, of making them feel uneasy about your intentions and not trusting your straightforwardness. You'd come over much better if you stated openly how you felt, but in a responsible way. Something like this: )



It seems to me that Jim really messed up in this thread. Then Bill had to come and rescue him from his many faux pas, completely clarifying the original concept. He did that well, and I appreciated it.

I also notice that Bill has himself not been critical of Jim, and is being characteristically positive -- except that he asked Jim to stick to his own topic, which of course he should. I wonder what Bill really thinks, and I would like to know.

On the contrary, I find Fred's commentary an amusing rise in the level of frequency from what was being demonstrated & felt previously.

Just remember - ALL WORDS ARE LIES -
So, not to worry... and certainly not to be too, too serious about anything anybody is telling...

With all due respect...


turiya :cool:

ROMANWKT
25th August 2013, 13:54
-------

More on what Covert Hostility is about:

Every con man (or woman!), everyone who's ever tricked you or betrayed you after you trusted them, most people who seem to be very pleasant but 'aren't quite right' and 'you can't put your finger on it', every agenda-driven friendly manipulator -- they're all COVERTLY HOSTILE.

Like a snake. They slither silently in the grass, and you can't see them coming till they bite you. With an angry Momma Bear, you've got a better chance, because you can run, or yell at them as loudly as possible until they run.

People are like that too. When someone's openly ('overtly') angry, you know exactly where you stand. They're actually doing you a favor. Everything is in the open.

But someone in COVERT hostility is too afraid to be angry, and too angry to be afraid. They're caught between the two. So they hide.

Because they hide, and pretend to be something they're not (like supportive, kind and friendly), they can be very sneaky and hard to detect. And very damaging indeed.

Learning how to spot them is as useful as learning to pick out where the snakes are, out in the wilderness, before they crawl into your tent (or, in human terms, crawl into your life).

This is what this thread is about, or should be about. Learning how to spot the silent predators, knowing when to kick someone out of your life (or your business) before they steal everything you have.

Thank you for this explanation Bill.


You people that object to real reality are so narrow minded its unbelievable,

you really don't understand what is being said to you,

you are really from another planet, , get it, it is so.


roman


Jim they haven't the faintest what you are talking about, they and I mean you here on this website really are day dreamers, you have a long way to go as yet to really understand. keep on dreaming simple minds

roman



Sounds as you're not widely read enough to say that.

regards

roman




I think Gripreaper we have to move on
roman



at the moment he is way ahead of you my friend.

regards

roman



I feel the tone of the OP of this thread is hostile.

Bye.

Peace

Your feeling would be most perfectly wrong, cant handle objectiveness.

regards

roman




Yes exactly that to all my friend. regards roman

Ok, you don't want to clarify, I accept that. What I don't accept is homophobia, or those who want to place themselves above the rest of us because, for some reason, their path is more enlightened, or they perceive awakening as some sort of linear projection and they find themselves further along such a scale, and therefore elevate themselves above the rest of us, and then refuse to clarify or delineate that which they mean for the rest of us.

If we are such "simple minds" with "such a long way to go" then why bother? Why wait for us, or as you say, Jim's understanding of the tone of homosexuals is empathic? really? All things are empathic that you emanate into the matrix Roman, so I should look closer into the energetic tone and timbre of your words and be able to decipher what you mean by using my energy, and therefore, those who cannot "hear you" are somehow just not tuned into the "wavelength" where you and Jim reside and therefore, no need to clarify because it would be pointless to try and clarify for such simple minds? So, we cannot be reached?

Before you go any further, I had juat read your first line, not necessary to read the rest, there is no homophobia here, that's you're take on this, that's why I have said and repeat you don't understand, and you are pointing fingers in ignorance.

Regards

roman

Mirror reflections right enough.


I was a lower tone person for 30 years, I was involved with women, that most would never match, listen to what he is saying, and understand, don't judge, don't homophobic, listen, or you will be brought down, its real and it exists.

regards

roman

JUST IN CASE, NO i WAS NOT A PIMP, NOTHING LIKE THAT.




The most powerful emotion is sexual Jake, that many suffer with my friend, yes we can just ignore it as everything else, so be it.

Warmest regards Jake

roman

Ah the bliss of celebicy.




I would say the most powerful emotion is Love,,, Maybe Fear. When a powerful sexual nature, degrades into hatred, or even dislike, of entire groups of people,, then it is a problem.

I want to make a point. This discussion was started with ugly words to an entire group of amazing people. Do you think it doesn't go unnoticed?


JIm,, if you want to make a point, you will have to do it without trashing Gays..

Jake. I agree Jake. Thank you




I do not engage in the lower frequencies, :whistle:

Regards

roman

Ah Judgement yes we have to be careful. I rest my case. :boink:




there are a lot of variables ... I didn't think it when I picked gay ... or know what reaction I would get ...

I should have said promiscuity that would cover the covert part of both gay and heter ,.. would be more clear

so sorry about this

jim

I appreciate the sorry Jim, but why did you not think or know what reaction you would get before you leaped. The mind boggles.

Lessons on covert hostility to be learned.

peace

At the end of the day, understanding is everything, and at the moment, its most defiantly is not here.

Regards

roman

jiminii
25th August 2013, 13:57
ernie nemeth
And since I'm at it, how can you be cleared if you had no past to clear? And if they did not clear your future how can you be clear? Just curious.


a clear would be someone that has had his memory erased or if he is natural clear he never created an automatic picture recording memory.
So all those who have come from the beginning to now have trillions of years of these automatic picture recorded memories. These memories contain all the pain in it too and any words that were spoken when he was unconscious could put irrational hypnotic commands in that memory to react irrational to certain situations.

So how can there be a clear by having no past life time. By having no pictures at all and those sent from the future do not have an automatic picture recording memory. The spirit just KNOWS. Only the GE that grows the body we are in has one of these automatic memories.

this body reacts to pictures but the spirit is behind that in serenity. The body feels all the different tone levels but me the spirit is just sitting in the background observing it. I can get angry if I need it to handle a situation. But I am cause over the anger. The anger is not cause over me.

that is the difference.

ulli
25th August 2013, 14:08
Thanks for putting up the tone chart so I could read it Bill. One thing I have noticed on my spiritual journey is that after much learning, reading, experiencing and applying my emotions are 'even'. Back before I started on my spirit quest outside events would cause me to be "excited" or "downcast". When the emotions are understood and ruled over, the state of contentedness, joy and happiness is a constant. It's an inner thing. The mind is clear and present.


This post shows me something important about you, namely that you would make a trustworthy friend.
All those who accept responsibility for their own emotions are high up on the tone scale, in my view.
It is not easy to get to such a level...lots of vigilance is needed.

Atlas
25th August 2013, 14:12
http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/img/tonea.jpg
http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/img/toneb.jpg
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This tone scale reminds me of the Maslow's hierarchy of needs :
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/Maslow%27s_Hierarchy_of_Needs.svg/500px-Maslow%27s_Hierarchy_of_Needs.svg.png
Maslow's hierarchy of needs is often portrayed in the shape of a pyramid with the largest, most fundamental levels of needs at the bottom and the need for self-actualization at the top. While the pyramid has become the de facto way to represent the hierarchy, Maslow himself never used a pyramid to describe these levels in any of his writings on the subject.

Maslow's theory was fully expressed in his 1954 book Motivation and Personality. While the hierarchy remains a very popular framework in sociology research and secondary and higher psychology instruction, it has largely been supplanted by attachment theory in graduate and clinical psychology and psychiatry.

(source: wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslows_hierarchy_of_needs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs))

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44908464/avalon/Vitality_Tone.gif (http://www.themichaelteaching.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Vitality_Tone-new.jpg)

The above Vitality Tone and Attitude Scale by Stephen J.Cocconi has been influenced by: (among others)


Abraham Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs,
the Integrity Tone Scale by Vern Black,

http://www.makersmind.com/wp-content/uploads/Integrity_Tone_Scale.pdf


the E-Scale by L. Ron Hubbard,
the 3 Meta Attitudes of Loving Communication by Fred Keyser and Heidi Fox,
Law of Attraction by Abraham-Hicks,
Levels of Truth by Will Schutz Ph.D, and
Levels of Consciousness by Dr. David Hawkins

http://www.dharanipitaka.net/2011/2008/teachings/DavidHawkins-PowerVsForce.pdf

(source: themichaelteaching.com/michael/the-vitality-tone-scale (http://www.themichaelteaching.com/michael/the-vitality-tone-scale/))

Billy
25th August 2013, 14:15
At the end of the day, understanding is everything, and at the moment, its most defiantly is not here.

Regards

roman

Thank you for clarifying that Roman. Not to worry, with patience understanding will be forthcoming.


We are allowed a tad of humour, are we not. :dance:

ulli
25th August 2013, 14:23
Roman, you have seen the big picture, but ought to make some allowances that getting there was a process, for you, too.
Understanding is great, and it trumps knowledge, because knowledge without understanding is like a heavy load that hasn't been distributed properly.
But after understanding there are yet other levels-- wisdom and compassion.
Just saying...

There are divided opinions about what this planet really is....

Is it a school or is it a prison?
Or is it all there is, and then life simply stops when someone dies,
while nothing remains?

Is the self the ONE creator, completely all-knowing, all-wise?
Where would be the room for growth if it were like that?

Jiminii, you really do know how to trigger lots of questions.....

Carmen
25th August 2013, 14:31
Yes Ulli, it's being watchful of ones responses. I come from a family and marital background of criticism. It unfortunately becomes imbedded in ones very bones I reckon! To overcome and unlimit the beliefs and attitudes of our upbringing takes attention and self correction but when we do it for long enough the habit dissipates. Realising that everyone is doing their best from their perspective,helps. This thread is interesting to me. Sometimes I interact with people who are lovely on the surface but there is something not quite right, their energy is "off".

Star Mariner
25th August 2013, 14:43
-------
Actually, in his post #103 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62627-Covert-Hostility-..the-Tone-Level-...-WHAT-IT-IS&p=719832&viewfull=1#post719832) above, Fred was being covertly hostile. :)

It's a perfect demonstration. Fred is hostile to and critical of Jim (very much so), but couched it all in cheery, apparently friendly, disguise. That's because it's important to Fred to present himself as a very nice guy. Everything he said in his post was indirect, and covertly a little barbed. This is no crime, but it does have an effect on those reading it.

(Fred, do you see? This doesn't look very good to others. It runs the risk, from your point of view, of making them feel uneasy about your intentions and not trusting your straightforwardness. You'd come over much better if you stated openly how you felt, but in a responsible way. Something like this: )



It seems to me that Jim really messed up in this thread. Then Bill had to come and rescue him from his many faux pas, completely clarifying the original concept. He did that well, and I appreciated it.

I also notice that Bill has himself not been critical of Jim, and is being characteristically positive -- except that he asked Jim to stick to his own topic, which of course he should. I wonder what Bill really thinks, and I would like to know.

On the contrary, I find Fred's commentary an amusing rise in the level of frequency from what was being demonstrated & felt previously.

Just remember - ALL WORDS ARE LIES -
So, not to worry... and certainly not to be too, too serious about anything anybody is telling...

With all due respect...


turiya :cool:

Tbh, I agree with you here. I see why Bill might pigeon-hole Fred's post as 'covertly hostile' (nice label), but you could also call it (if everything must be so labelled) as 'overtly sardonic', in the best possible tradition. And these two labels (the second I just invented), are in my opinion quite different!

Fred's was just a passive observation, an interjection from the periphery, which indeed lightened the tone. And such commentaries, when they come, can in my opinion be quite helpful and healthy sound bites, offering a sometimes much appreciated different slant on things.

Camilo
25th August 2013, 14:50
Holy Crap!

dianna
25th August 2013, 14:57
Holy Crap!

LOL! Where does that fall on the scale?

CD7
25th August 2013, 15:02
I believe I am a covert hostile...:spy: I am subject to fits of hostility while observing the world around me...
But then again, idk how covert I am about it so I think Im more of a overt hostile...:whoo: yes thts it!!!

I think humor cancels out the anger in hostility -1+1= 0 See then your just left with pure white rage :)

jiminii
25th August 2013, 15:03
I came right out of source too like Inelia from the future

Why did you come here from the future? Do you have a soul contract, which has been agreed to by the collective consciousness of all the sentient beings here on this planet, who set up this game from the beginning, and who have been here since the beginning, and have agreed to remain here until the return to source is complete?

Did we agree that you should alter the game without being “in the game”?

360 + years in the future this galaxy is in complete terror. All these electronic mind control devices that are everywhere on the planet all this different frequencies being used to push mind control on the population.

we DIDN'T stop the reptilians from invading this galaxy from this planet, (though they have already 7 other planets and they want this 8th planet). and they put all their mind control devices throughout this galaxy until they could take it over, (but this is another thread).

So we are sent from a time warped hidden base since the Grand Masters Jedi of the future, (if you want to call them that), worked at finding a way to undo all this and LRH died at age 37 and was replaced with a spirit from the future. Of course you can say a lot of good or bad things about him, but trying to run a body that is upset by a GE you just knocked out to take over the body but ----

a being like me can not be hit by external forces. But since I am in this body, this body can be hit by everything anyone else can be hit with including all the pain it can pull out of it's past picture memory banks.

So we are here so that all these people of every variety and moods can survive in the future.

of course no one will even believe any of this and we don't get any Navy Crosses for what we do but I do have the ability to pop out of this entire universe and back into a different time in this universe. I have what I can manage to get out of all this awareness that is blocked between this body and me, (the spirit), and it is a burden but I am trying to do the best I can with what I have.

jim

Kano
25th August 2013, 15:07
It seems to me that Jim really messed up in this thread. Then Bill had to come and rescue him from his many faux pas, completely clarifying the original concept. He did that well, and I appreciated it.

I also notice that Bill has himself not been critical of Jim, and is being characteristically positive -- except that he asked Jim to stick to his own topic, which of course he should. I wonder what Bill really thinks, and I would like to know.

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the post. It would be great if you could answer your own comments for those of us scratching our heads about how this thread, with such obvious ignorance and homophobia but cloaked with pseudo new age babble (from the future no less), was allowed to continue on with no warnings from you.

Is it because the OP is a fellow Scientologist friend? Is it because you agree with him?

The concept of "covert hostility" is not a new concept. It is simply a new way to say "passive aggressive". And we all know what that is and we are all guilty of using it to our advantage when we need to. So, it seems to me we are having a discussion that started with very obvious gay bashing and was cloaked in some off handed intelligence that you seem to have endorsed.

You can spray perfume on a turd and it will smell a little better for a short time, but at the end of the day, it's still a turd.

jiminii
25th August 2013, 15:25
I believe I am a covert hostile...:spy: I am subject to fits of hostility while observing the world around me...
But then again, idk how covert I am about it so I think Im more of a overt hostile...:whoo: yes thts it!!!

I think humor cancels out the anger in hostility -1+1= 0 See then your just left with pure white rage :)

you are not covert hostile
a covert hostile person would NEVER SAY he/she was covert. In fact they can't be wrong. If you can actually make one believe he/she is wrong they would probably be quite sick.

jim

Camilo
25th August 2013, 15:32
Holy Crap!

LOL! Where does that fall on the scale?

It's off the scale! :cool:

sdv
25th August 2013, 15:39
http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/img/tonea.jpg
http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/img/toneb.jpg
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This tone scale reminds me of the Maslow's hierarchy of needs :
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/Maslow%27s_Hierarchy_of_Needs.svg/500px-Maslow%27s_Hierarchy_of_Needs.svg.png
Maslow's hierarchy of needs is often portrayed in the shape of a pyramid with the largest, most fundamental levels of needs at the bottom and the need for self-actualization at the top. While the pyramid has become the de facto way to represent the hierarchy, Maslow himself never used a pyramid to describe these levels in any of his writings on the subject.

Maslow's theory was fully expressed in his 1954 book Motivation and Personality. While the hierarchy remains a very popular framework in sociology research and secondary and higher psychology instruction, it has largely been supplanted by attachment theory in graduate and clinical psychology and psychiatry.

(source: wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslows_hierarchy_of_needs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs))

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44908464/avalon/Vitality_Tone.gif (http://www.themichaelteaching.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Vitality_Tone-new.jpg)

The above Vitality Tone and Attitude Scale by Stephen J.Cocconi has been influenced by: (among others)


Abraham Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs,
the Integrity Tone Scale by Vern Black,

http://www.makersmind.com/wp-content/uploads/Integrity_Tone_Scale.pdf


the E-Scale by L. Ron Hubbard,
the 3 Meta Attitudes of Loving Communication by Fred Keyser and Heidi Fox,
Law of Attraction by Abraham-Hicks,
Levels of Truth by Will Schutz Ph.D, and
Levels of Consciousness by Dr. David Hawkins

http://www.dharanipitaka.net/2011/2008/teachings/DavidHawkins-PowerVsForce.pdf

(source: themichaelteaching.com/michael/the-vitality-tone-scale (http://www.themichaelteaching.com/michael/the-vitality-tone-scale/))

Thank you buares for a summary of all this useful information. Where am I on the scale (whichever scale)? How do I move to another point on the scale? I worked a lot with the Hawkins scale, but it is useful to see it presented with other scales.

Bill Ryan
25th August 2013, 15:57
It would be great if you could answer your own comments for those of us scratching our heads about how this thread, with such obvious ignorance and homophobia but cloaked with pseudo new age babble (from the future no less), was allowed to continue on with no warnings from you.

Is it because the OP is a fellow Scientologist friend? Is it because you agree with him?


No, I don't agree with Jim about this. I only visited the thread just before my first post, which was #45 on page 3. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62627-Covert-Hostility-..the-Tone-Level-...-WHAT-IT-IS&p=719455&viewfull=1#post719455)

At that same point I also sent Jim a PM asking him to stick to the topic that he had defined, and also pointed out that he was confusing Covert Hostility with homosexuality.

For the definitive record, they are not necessarily linked at all: one can be covertly hostile whatever one's sexuality or gender, and the converse is that the majority of homosexuals are not covertly hostile. There's no real correlation.

Important: there MAY have been a functional correlation in previous generations when homosexual thoughts or feelings were very usually a guilty secret, held by someone with a lot of resentment that society would not 'let' them 'come out'. Being in a persecuted minority is tough to carry.

(A note to Jim: this is a 'missed withhold' phenomenon, not connected with sexuality per se. It's really important to understand this.)

This keeping of a huge 'guilty' secret from almost everyone, 24/7, drains spiritual energy big-time and pushes one down the 'tone scale' -- as does any chronic feeling of guilt, whether justified or not.

Sexual liberation, in the 21st century, has released many people from being imprisoned and 'covertly hostile' to the rest of society. One can enjoy all kinds of unusual or uncommon sexual proclivities and be totally open and enthusiastic about it, if there is no implied or carried guilt. It's the guilt that does the damage.

Does this make sense? This squares away and aligns all the information. Quoting views from the 1950s on this is not in any way relevant now. Hubbard was partly right back then. But not now.

I explained to Jim in part (and in brief) some other phenomena that may well be occurring with someone who is gay, some of which could be connected with past lives. It's complex stuff.

Jim intended well, to share the truth as he understood it, but there are a number of factors involved -- which are quite complicated, but interesting, and which I can enlarge on later or separately if anyone's interested. It really needs an entire thread about the actual nature of the body, and that's a really HUGE area to address. It can't be summed up simply in a few words or sentences.

gripreaper
25th August 2013, 15:58
LRH tone scale, being linear, is different than others, such as David Hawkin's or Jenny Wade, Barbara Brennan, etc.

If we begin with the postulate that all of the universe is energy, and all energy is light, which can be refracted into resonant tones and frequencies, relative to "amount" and "velocity", then we can use these data points as a basis for a chart.

But, this chart needs to be synonymous with the very transmitter/receiver of the body, the energy body known as the "aura" and the chakras. The idea that there is a negative number on the scale which is below zero does not make sense when you juxtapose the frequencies against the chakras, for the lowest slowest color is red which is the root chakra. Chakras have two sides in the electromagnetic spectrum, both the feminine receptive on the front and the masculine electric on the back. This first chakra is the survival chakra, and an aberration (short circuit) in this first chakra manifests as fear. This survival chakra needs to be plugged into the earth to even get a completed circuit. The other part of the circuit is the crown chakra at the other end of the central column, your connection to spirit. The energy oscillates between the positive and negative poles of the chakra and this is what animates manifestation.

http://7gen.com/files/chakra-man.jpg

How can there be anything lower? Manifestation cannot occur without energy, so to say that there are zombies running around who are dead and have no animation, is like saying there is no energy in their bodies. This is impossible according to the laws of physics.

May I suggest you look at the tone scale in reference to energy rather than emotion.

http://7gen.com/files/seven-layers.jpg

Emotion is the emanation of energy which the body "emotes" based on an intention of the mind. In the fear and survival mode of the first chakra when pulled up and disconnected from the earth, the ego and the mind goes into the "fight or flight" adrenaline response and sends adrenaline throughout the body because it "thinks" it is dying, and the basic core visceral instincts take over and override any empathic understanding from the higher brain centers.

Once this irrational trigger occurs, you cannot override it until the charge of energy is dispersed and the adrenaline moves through and exits the body. When someone is deficient in energy due to lethargy and is faced with a survival issue and their "fight or flight" response kicks in, they may put out an etheric energetic hook and covertly seek out a vulnerable energy body to vampire and suck off of. Many co-dependent relationships are just that, mutual vampire sessions.

http://www.ttem.org/uploads/BAB_EDS.jpg

But, that does not mean that all sex is energetic vampirism. The second chakra is the life force generator. Short circuited or stagnant energy in the second charka causes anger, in it's aberrant emanation. The third chakra is the solar plexus, which is our personal power center. Aberrant emanations for this chakra are grief.

http://www.annejones.org/images/whatisenergyhealing/whatiseneryhealing3.gif

It is not within the scope of this post to delineate the entire charka system, how it works, or how the aberrant short circuits occur, what beliefs are relative to which chakra, and to what degrees, but suffice it to say, the lowest and slowest is the first in fear, the second is anger and the third is grief. Grief is higher and faster than anger, and anger is higher and faster than fear, and fear is the lowest and slowest.

ulli
25th August 2013, 16:22
So why did Jim use gays as an example with which to illustrate his tone scale?
To give offense, to provoke, to express his 'homophobia' in a covertly hostile manner?

We can't be sure, but at least take his word for it when he says he didn't expect such a reaction.
Put it down to Leo naïveté.

I must say, there has been more hostility directed at him here (one man...lots of direct ad hominem attacks)
than he directed at gays as a group.

When I think of gays I think partly of theater, of drama, of exuberance;
nothing really negative, but definitely exaggerated human behavior traits,
and as such perfect for lending themselves as examples for different emotions on a tone scale.

Tricky subject, one which gives people plenty of chance
to act out their indignation and anger in a feel-good way.
Identifying with a group of people is a necessary step on the road to finding one's true self...
In my case it was religion...then I became free from that, too.
Now I don't identify with anyone in particular...not even Avalonians.

I'm my own person. It doesn't bother me when someone talks politically incorrect.
(Stepping back humbly and ready to receive roaring applause now.)

gripreaper
25th August 2013, 16:24
here's what a violin looks like

http://www.singingwoods.org/images/ea_cover_large.jpg

ulli
25th August 2013, 16:26
here's what a guitar looks like

http://www.singingwoods.org/images/ea_cover_large.jpg

Wow, a smoking violin...no more need for smoking guns in a violin case.
Tempted to laugh at my own joke here....

gripreaper
25th August 2013, 16:32
Here's an illustration of some guy trying to "hook" this woman's energy field and vampire her energy.

http://www.1lovespirit.com/images/couple-fighting.jpg

BrianEn
25th August 2013, 16:33
sex itself is minus 0.8 on the tone scale ... it is a negative below death tone

It is a theta trap, (traps your thoughts constantly on this idea of sex no matter where you go). It has your attention on other people's body parts.

this is put into the creation of bodies for their compulsive survival.

but for the creator, the spirit being that created this to animate life, he never thought of it as a trap until he got trapped in it.

it is some happy said incident that spirits like to experience and so it is constantly draining them of energy that could be used more productively.

some people call this LOVE. NO LOVE IS THE DESIRE TO BE CLOSE TO ANOTHER BECAUSE OF YOUR LIKING OF THEM OR LIKES AND SIMILARITIES ARE THE SAME,

YOU JUST LIKE TO BE WITH THEM (with or without sex)

that is why it is on the minus level of the tone scale and a GE does not go below ZERO.

this means it is affected by spirit beings only. A GE (genetic entity ... ghost that creates physical bodies), has no MIND other than electronically programmed memories to operate. It is like a ROBOT. It was what REAL spirits created before they got trapped inside it. They would create a body and animate it and grow it with a GE that is also a creation that is an automatic picture recording system that the life form uses to survive from. It has a programmed personality put in it by the spirit who created it like a lion or a tiger or a dog or any other species. But this GE can NOT originate NEW THOUGHT.

a large percentage of the planet are NO GREATER THAN THE TREES OR PLANTS.

To understand this you must understand this is a prison planet. Actual Spirit beings (which are really a spirits viewpoint that is also a creation so that the spirit can extend itself into the creation of this universe from the static it is), so these actual spiritual Viewpoints are dumped here from other stars as prisoners. They are implanted to alter their memories so they can not remember who they are so they can escape from this prison.

the number of these spirit beings depends on WHO IS DUMPED HERE, not HOW MANY BODIES ARE CREATED.

the 100 percent bodies are created by GE's

70 percent or more do not have SPIRITS CONNECTED TO THEM so these 70 percent are basically ROBOTS

30 percent or Less are bodies with both GE's and Thetans (spirit beings viewpoint)

So the bodies that are created are from GE's with NO MIND ... (their mind is an automatic response mind caused by pictures, experience, and programming ONLY).

so you can estimate that more than 70 percent of the planet are ROBOTS

30 percent have SPIRIT BEINGS, (viewpoints golden balls that manage and take over the body from the spirit).

the TONE scale goes from minus 40 to Plus 40.

the tone of a GE can only go from 0 (death) to 4 ... that is 0 to 4 on the tone scale. 4 is enthusiasm.

covert hostility is between fear and and anger.

below anger the being becomes more perverted, and is leaning more to death. So people below anger would be more prone to suicide.
so anyone below anger can not be trusted.

people in fear interpret everything in life from the viewpoint of FEAR

Covert Hostility the person interprets everything from the viewpoint of (to survive I must attack everyone from the back)

from anger the person interprets everything from a viewpoint (I must fight with anger to survive).

covert hostility the person is perverting THOUGHT. He CAN"T HAVE ANGER. because HE got ANGRY one time and it PRACTICALLY DESTROYED HIS LIFE.

so he can NOT get his TONE LEVEL INTO A SURVIVAL RANGE ABOVE ANGER because he is extremely afraid of ANGER.

Get angry around GAYS and they will try to tell you to calm down and be reasonable, while they covertly tell everyone that because you are angry you are NUTS.

The PURPOSE OF COVERT HOSTILE PEOPLE IS TO GET EVERYONE'S TONE LEVEL BELOW THEM SO THEY CAN CONTROL THEM WITH THEIR LIES AND KNIFE IN THE BACK TECHNIQUES.

Gays are in the COVERT HOSTILITY range ,.. and to some degree are knife in the back people or attack from the back either with words or other means

they always make your conversations less than they are and the purpose is to bring your tone level down below them, so they can feel safe

example: you bought a new shirt. The gay will say, "oh that is a beautiful shirt you have, I have loved it for years."

he says it is beautiful but degrades it by saying it is an old shirt to make it of lower value.

You get around covert people and you will come down in tone because their words are designed to bring you down below their tone level so they can control you and feel safe.

You get around gays and their SPACE IS DIRTY, STICKY, and they push their feminism to extreme KNOWING that if bothers people. THEY KNOW it makes people feel weird and awkward and that is why they do it.

This is also why the GAYS OVER EXAGGERATE THEIR FEMINISM, TO PUT YOUR ATTENTION CONSTANTLY ON THIS BODY FUNCTION CALLED SEX,

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LOVE,

It is like a Vampire WHO can't get enough attention and so they want to trap your thoughts and energy on their weirdness

therefore, you can not trust GAYS they have perverted sex to use it for CONTROL and their hidden intention is to bring people down below them.

Since their survival is leaning towards death THEY DO NOT CARE WHO LIVES OR DIES. Put them in the News or Politics and they will follow any of these Bankers programs whether it kills everyone or not.

jim


When you point your finger at someone you have three pointing back at you.

ulli
25th August 2013, 16:37
Here's an illustration of some guy trying to "hook" this woman's energy field and vampire her energy.

http://www.1lovespirit.com/images/couple-fighting.jpg


Ingo Swann wrote extensively about this in a book called Psychic Sexuality, (I believe that was the title.)
He trained to see these energy fields in himself and others,
and had some interesting experiences once all this became visible.

gripreaper
25th August 2013, 16:46
Ingo Swann wrote extensively about this in a book called Psychic Sexuality, (I believe that was the title.) He trained to see these energy fields in himself and others, and had some interesting experiences once all this became visible.

I got my feet wet reading Barbara Brennan's seminal works: "Hands of Light" and "Light Emerging" back in the mid 90's, along with many others such as David Hawkin's, Washburn, Ken Wilber, and most auspiciously, Jenny Wade.

Jenny Wade's work "Changes of Mind" was the best of all in my estimation, and it did not get the recognition it deserved for delineating the scales of development. I highly recommend it.

Delight
25th August 2013, 17:11
the Integrity Tone Scale by Vern Black,
[/LIST]
http://www.makersmind.com/wp-content/uploads/Integrity_Tone_Scale.pdf



Thanks Buares for these scales.
I am sure that we are responsible for the tone we emote and also sure that we energetically receive as we give. I rely on trust that whatever I am experiencing is not imprisonment and is just a stage of just a moment of just what appears. It is for my highest good because I am at cause. I am just sure I am no different and that we are all whole beings or would not have life. The TRUST in my self makes it easy to move around tonally.

Yes, my "densities" of unresolved self acceptance can get in my way. Still, THAT is just a stage. I cannot subscribe to blanket projections about people or the world at this time. It all seems so mythic and created by us for our purposes.

This trust in my native power just because I am living is my choice. Everyone has the opportunity of choice. That to me is the secret I always sought.

I was curious about Vern Black and found this and it seems to be very relevant to me and it also ties into the thread 's discussion. Moreover, it reflects a conversation with my friend who is working with the "Medicine Buddha". She has been reaching a deeper state where she is now feeling the Medicine Buddha to be part of her psyche as opposed to an outward symbol.

I have learned much from this thread today!! Thanks, Maggie


Philosopher Ken Wilber provides a developmental underpinning for understanding how we perceive and interpret the world. He boldly declares that anyone will interpret the experience of a state in life according to the developmental stage they are living inside. He offers the illustration of a subtle state experience of intense luminosity coupled with universal love when seen and interpreted by a Western Christian as an encounter with the Holy Spirit or Jesus Christ, and this experience can occur at numerous stages of development (Wilber uses the five developmental stages proposed by Jean Gebser).

So at the developmental stage of magic, the experience is seen and interpreted with Jesus being a magician doing miracles to satisfy my desires. At the developmental stage of the mythic, this same experience is perceived and interpreted as Jesus Christ being the bringer of Eternal Truth and this is absolutistic in terms of a belief. At the next stage of the mental-rational, the identical experience is given the meaning of Jesus being both human and Divine and is a teacher of universal love of God. The same experiential state at the pluralistic stage sees Jesus as one of thousands of such profound spiritual encounters of the Christ experience. And the same experience at the integral stage (which Wilber expands into at least 4 higher stages) is perceived as integrating this experience of Christ-consciousness with numerous expressions of the Holy Spirit worldwide. Thus, how one sees and interprets any experience comes directly out of their stage of growth. 4

As you become familiar with the Integrity Tone chart you can also use the first column called Key Word to notice the overall quality of the person’s integrity state. Thus, the integrity state of uncertainty has the key word of confused, while the integrity state of emergency has the key word of urgent. You can also spot in the column Emotion what is the characteristic emotional gradient at that state of integrity. There is greater freedom of expression for creating health, love and happiness toward the upper end of the scale and less freedom toward the lower end. Again, emotions are neither good nor bad.......

.........By checking and double-checking the various columns against the self’s or person’s behavior, you can notice the congruency of the various columns, producing a bingo according to Black. At this point you can see a fuller picture and know their trust of themselves and to what degree you can invest your trust in them. This is of immeasurable value in knowing precisely how to relate for maximal well being and integrity for both parties.

The principle that everyone is doing their best at all times given their own state of consciousness and awareness is highly relevant here. Certainly from our perspective, another’s actions, attitudes, thoughts and feelings may make little sense, yet make perfect logical or practical or emotional sense to them. Similarly, moral judgments of right and wrong are inappropriate, not in terms of intention or what results actually occur, but in terms of the person’s model of how life works. Author Neal Donald Walsch underscores this point: “No one does anything that is “wrong,” given their model of the world.” 5http://waltsearch.wordpress.com/transformation-technologies/integrity-tone-scale/

Limor Wolf
25th August 2013, 17:12
I am sorry, but I'm having trouble with the various concepts in this thread. Personal troubles (My own emotions, my own responsibility etc). Is there a bottom line to all that's been said here? There is quite a lot of 'good' and 'bad' little judgments between the lines, also 'should' or 'shouldn't'..

Can a covertly hostile person be so 'covert' that he himself wouldn't know it? Or is it only the very consciously intended hostile person that can be put under this definition?
In other words, can some of us which have good to normal intentions but carry inner emotions such as unresolved anger, pain or anxiety but don't want to put it on others therefore 'play nice' are considered as having covert hostility?

What can be done about it?

Flash
25th August 2013, 17:14
http://www.biomindsuperpowers.com/Pages/Psychic%20Sexuality%20Blurb.html



PSYCHIC SEXUALITY

The Bio-Psychic "Anatomy" of Sexual Energies

INGO SWANN

In 1989, Swann was invited by Dr. Elmer Green at the Menninger Foundation to participate in experiments involving physical energy fields, body, electricity, and states of consciousness. The experiments were conducted within an elaborate electrostatic "copper wall environment," the design of which was based on an ancient Asian technique to activate and enhance clairvoyance and lucidity.

As a result of the numerous experimental sessions undertaken, Swann's clairvoyance increased tremendously. Various states of lucid consciousness were achieved with respect to "seeing" vivid details of invisible energetic fields and phenomena of the biological body and its astonishing higher-energy systems.

In PSYCHIC SEXUALITY, Swann reports on the high-energy systems associated with sexual energies that most people sense, feel, and respond to at very basic levels of consciousness even if they cannot perceive them by clairvoyance.

Swann enlarges the book by providing an historical overview of several past epochs of higher-consciousness research during which sexual energies were vividly encountered , but which research was vigorously condemned by organized societal forces. The existence of the societal suppression is itself suppressed. If it was not for the shocking methods utilized to achieve it, the suppression is quite hilarious.

Why such research has undergone societal suppression provides an interesting question. As part of an answer, Swann provides a step-by-step rationale that has very surprising implications.


Table of Contents

Ordering Information

Apteka
25th August 2013, 17:18
I don't mean to be a contrarian or cause any offense with my following remarks, since I can tell most feel the GLBT lifestyle is ok. I also held this view until I discovered something interesting. Once in University I was part of program where I was able to interact with people from other parts of the world. We were sitting at a table taking a little break and the topic of homosexuality came up. I was really surprised to see people from other backgrounds expressing sentiment against it. The cultural representation was from mainland China, shamanistic Africa, Buddhist Vietnamese, and a Hindu from Gujuarat, India. I had always thought homosexuality was contrary to the Judeo-Christian worldview, but here, folks coming from an independent cultural paradigms are expressing similar views. It made me think that perhaps Thomas Aquinas was on to something when he said homosexual acts were contrary to natural law. So in all honesty I lean towards a negative view of anything contrary to nature (and that includes many other things outside of the sexual sphere, e.g. consumerism, materialism, etc.) Even so, it's hard to tell a person that the person they love is wrong for them, so I generally live a libertarian lifestyle.

Anyway, just my two cents, pardon if I caused any offense

jiminii
25th August 2013, 17:18
I am sorry, but I'm having trouble with the various concepts in this thread. Personal troubles (My own emotions, my own responsibility etc). Is there a bottom line to all that's been said here? There is quite a lot of 'good' and 'bad' little judgments between the lines, also 'should' or 'shouldn't'..

Can a covertly hostile person be so 'covert' that he himself wouldn't know it? Or is it only the consciously intended hostile person can be put under this definition?
In other words, can some of us which have good to normal intentions but carry inner emotions such as unresolved anger, pain or anxiety but don't want to put it on others therefor 'play nice' are considered as having covert hostility?

What can be done about it?

if you think you are covert, then you are not. A covert hostile person KNOWS what he is doing.

jim

shadowstalker
25th August 2013, 17:22
contrary to natural law

When one thinks about it, natural law is contrary to spiritual experience and law..
which one is more important? the experience or the law in some cases?

:focus:

Flash
25th August 2013, 17:29
I am sorry, but I'm having trouble with the various concepts in this thread. Personal troubles (My own emotions, my own responsibility etc). Is there a bottom line to all that's been said here? There is quite a lot of 'good' and 'bad' little judgments between the lines, also 'should' or 'shouldn't'..

Can a covertly hostile person be so 'covert' that he himself wouldn't know it? Astounding YES, in my experience Or is it only the consciously intended hostile person can be put under this definition?Astounding NO, in my experience of passive-agressive and covertly hostile
In other words, can some of us which have good to normal intentions but carry inner emotions such as unresolved anger, pain or anxiety but don't want to put it on others therefor 'play nice' are considered as having covert hostility? We definitely could, in fact, I think most of us carry covert hostility without being aware of it. We did not land here on earth for no reasons, we do somewhere vibrate with the negative energies

What can be done about it? awakening to oneself and open admission of whom we are and what we carry, positive AND negative. Getting out the emotional closet, one chakra up from sexual ;)

I have seen people who were extremely agressive, covertly, everybody around finding them good guys and everybody around getting bitten, in turns. Those are extremely good manipulators, so good, that they convince themselves that they are ok, fine, the great ones.

80 % of those sick ones do not know they are sick, but about 20% know, Jimini you are wrong, some know - although Limor is not in these, the guilt is there and they are the most dangerous because they do get help into finding ways to manipulate - I have seen more of these in self-help courses, neuroliinguistic courses, spirituality courses than anywhere else. They were going there to get more Tools to manipulate, knowing quite well who they were. But hey, why should they care (I don't care is their motto, I will get what I want, I will use them).

Some do have bits of guilt, which makes them non psychopaths. When discovered, they blush and want to hide. Some have no guilt, which makes them psychopaths. When discovered, they attack in a merciless way, they want you to disappear.

Both have very stymied emotions, emotions learned to appear more human like, both know deep down they are not like the average "normal" person.

Now, this above is a world apart from the regular person who, at times, will be passive-agressive and/or covertly hostile. In this case, it is often repressed emotions, past hurts surfacing, fear waking up, old fears surfacing, etc.

All these, in regular folks, can be repaired if made conscious and accepted first, then resolved. However, it is often a painful process and many prefer to live half lifes with this discomfort and keep creating havoc instead of going through pain. Are we like the lazier ones? Here is the real question.

Flash
25th August 2013, 17:46
LRH tone scale, being linear, is different than others, such as David Hawkin's or Jenny Wade, Barbara Brennan, etc.

But, this chart needs to be synonymous with the very transmitter/receiver of the body, the energy body known as the "aura" and the chakras. The idea that there is a negative number on the scale which is below zero does not make sense when you juxtapose the frequencies against the chakras, .

It does make sense gripreaper if you assume that these scales are corresponding to energy fields that are not body based and chakra based. If you assume that we are greater than our bodies and chakras.

You are describing here the functioning of the body and etheric fields, which is fine. Other fields however do have an impact on the body and vice versa. Those other fields, at a "higher" end of the Spectrum, could very well push us into the negative. For example, you have - love - then neutral, the absence of love or hatred - then hatred. Love being positive, hatred negative.

The impact on the body would be to practically stop the functionning of the given effected chakra, the absolute negative for the body being death, anihilation.

The impact on the energetic being however can be multiple happenings, such as becoming a black magician willingly, or wanting power regardless.

(I would go as far as saying we are all black magicians at times when not awaken. We create negative énergies, when judging or bitching or having destructive intentions, we send that into the universe and it does resonate with the negative)

AriG
25th August 2013, 18:12
covert hostility is between fear and and anger.


Gays are in the COVERT HOSTILITY range ,.. and to some degree are knife in the back people or attack from the back either with words or other means

they always make your conversations less than they are and the purpose is to bring your tone level down below them, so they can feel safe



You get around gays and their SPACE IS DIRTY, STICKY, and they push their feminism to extreme KNOWING that if bothers people. THEY KNOW it makes people feel weird and awkward and that is why they do it.

This is also why the GAYS OVER EXAGGERATE THEIR FEMINISM, TO PUT YOUR ATTENTION CONSTANTLY ON THIS BODY FUNCTION CALLED SEX,

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LOVE,

It is like a Vampire WHO can't get enough attention and so they want to trap your thoughts and energy on their weirdness

therefore, you can not trust GAYS they have perverted sex to use it for CONTROL and their hidden intention is to bring people down below them.

Since their survival is leaning towards death THEY DO NOT CARE WHO LIVES OR DIES. Put them in the News or Politics and they will follow any of these Bankers programs whether it kills everyone or not.

jim

Ouch i felt that. That was very painful.

peace

t would appear that Jim is the one who is covertly or shall I say overtly hostile. Why do you care, Jim? Don't you realize that we all choose a journey through which we experience our god selves individually and that gender identity is as shallow a pursuit as is anything physical? It just doesn't matter. Much bigger fish to fry. And on a footnote, some of the least sticky, most honorable and best friends I have known have been homosexual. Those rare homosexual males who are angry, hostile and "bitchy" are just not self actualized. They don't like what they have been given and resent it. Can you not exercise a modicum of empathy in the realization that they are fighting their own internal battle and not doing a stellar job of hiding their angst externally? Lack of empathy is the hallmark of sociopathy. We all started as wee babies. We need to start treating each other as such.

Limor Wolf
25th August 2013, 18:38
Thank you jim and thank you Flash for the explanation to my question, both your responses, even if contradict each other make sense. Something does not sit well with me about this thread and I am not sure what it is... I guess what I would like to see ( Again judgments, expectations from my side..) is a clearer separation between intentioned covert hostility and non intentioned.

Also, I feel that this tone scale where emotions are awarded with a score has its own covert message about it -that it is not okay to feel anger, to feel pain or guilt, the desired state is a total bliss. So, is it okay to feel those emotions, is it not? Am I throwing in my own interpretation?

Another thing -


Originally posted by Bill Ryan: " there MAY have been a functional correlation in previous generations when homosexual thoughts or feelings were very usually a guilty secret...

"..This keeping of a huge 'guilty' secret from almost everyone, 24/7, drains spiritual energy big-time and pushes one down the 'tone scale' -- as does any chronic feeling of guilt, whether justified or not."

Very true, so what could a homosexual men do in the 19 century where they had to keep secrets, otherwise were thrown to jail.. and even today are being judged covertly and being given again and again as a bad example for a human being.. What type of score would they recieve? How can they avoid feeling guilt? . It looks more like this classic case where the individuals need to change themselves in order to fit into society's perceptions of what is or is not natural, instead of society chosing to adopt the 'live and let live unless you are hurting someone else' attitude .

I think I know why I am tickled. not so much by jim's words such as this -

"You get around gays and their SPACE IS DIRTY, STICKY"

But more by the tollerence demonstrated towards such words (I am all for you jim, but not for your specific related words and opinions) and attempt to walk on stragiht line even when something else might be required, and that might be quite similiar to a covert hostility, just the opposite maybe.

Such words should be denounced

gripreaper
25th August 2013, 19:53
Maybe a story would help here.

During my time in Los Angeles between 1997 and 2001 in a Primal Therapy group session, there was this young woman who was raped by her father at gunpoint since the time she was five years old. She would sit in the group rocking back and forth, shivering in sweat and fear as she grappled with the energy emerging within her. The therapist would trigger her into anger, which would get the life force energy moving, and she would be encouraged to take this energy of anger “to the wall” (walls were padded) and express her anger towards her father. Once the energy was amplified and focused, before it was fully discharged through anger, the grief would come forth and she would weep so deeply from her core that it would melt every heart in the room. This scene is something that I am reasonably sure 90% of the people out here have never witnessed.

When she would be “in the moment” of terror and abject grief, and call out to her father “Daddy please don’t, please Daddy I love you” a firing of the cellular DNA memory occurred and a catharsis caused the energy to fully fire within her cells, and you could see the transformation. The connection and release in the catharsis is astounding beyond words to witness. This is just one of many examples.

What transformation? Everything. Her facial expressions changed, her skin tone, her voice, her hair, her eyes, her walk, her gate, her sight and sounds, the very synapses in her brain rewired, hormones shift, insights flood the brain, beliefs change, past lives emerge, etc. This is how you know you have “burned the dross” and have cleared a memory which could have ten past lives attached to it.

Was she covertly hostile during many sessions? You bet. Projections are not easily accepted in sessions, once you have told your story a hundred times and the group tires of hearing you tell it again and again. Usually it is the others in the group who busts her for her projections and triggers her into her defensiveness and opens the gate for the catharsis to occur. It takes skill to walk a person into the memory, as everything within our being fights to not go there. There is a saying that: it is the resistance which is painful, not the actual catharsis or the reliving of the memory.

So, we all hold memories which are aberrations in our lower chakras, blocks in energy, short circuits in the amount and flow of energy, and disconnects from wholeness. No one wants to open up to these, although we claim we want to raise our Kundalini and have full access to all available energies. We all have defenses, use projections, and vampire energy from others. That is the first thing we need to do is go to the mirror and admit and own this truth.

So, here at Avalon we have, if we want to put us on a scale, most members are relatively clear and have reached the “authentic” stage on Maslow’s scale, or LRH’s, or Wilber’s or Hawkin’s scale, or whomever. I don’t know if LRH audits have the same cathartic effect as a primal, but I’d suspect they do. I know any two people who open and hold a space of trust and compassion, can sit with someone and help them open up to their blocked energies and teach them how not to project it outward onto others. We have all been targets of projected energies of anger, as well as vampired. This we learn to recognize as well.

During this time while Avalon is attempting to come together and focus energy for the transformation of the collective, and heal the many energetic disconnects, projections and vampirisms we all deal with here on this planet, let us be mindful that, as we focus, amplify, and emanate collectively, our individual crap will and must come up. It’s time to let it come up, open the sacred space for these healings to occur, and offer grace to those who are grappling with their own energy blockages. Let us also be mindful that amplified and focused overt or covert hostility is just as powerful, yet extremely more damaging.

We can do this. We must do this.

Fred Steeves
25th August 2013, 21:24
Actually, in his post #103 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62627-Covert-Hostility-..the-Tone-Level-...-WHAT-IT-IS&p=719832&viewfull=1#post719832) above, Fred was being covertly hostile. :)

It's a perfect demonstration. Fred is hostile to and critical of Jim (very much so), but couched it all in cheery, apparently friendly, disguise. That's because it's important to Fred to present himself as a very nice guy.


Fred, do you see? This doesn't look very good to others. It runs the risk, from your point of view, of making them feel uneasy about your intentions and not trusting your straightforwardness.

Well Bill, I'm just going to let my 3,300+ posts over 2 1/2 years speak for themselves. I wear no mask here, I don't talk BS, and I think (most) people can plainly see that.



You'd come over much better if you stated openly how you felt, but in a responsible way. Something like this:


It seems to me that Jim really messed up in this thread. Then Bill had to come and rescue him from his many faux pas, completely clarifying the original concept. He did that well, and I appreciated it.

I also notice that Bill has himself not been critical of Jim, and is being characteristically positive -- except that he asked Jim to stick to his own topic, which of course he should. I wonder what Bill really thinks, and I would like to know.

Thanks, but I'm well able to speak for myself, post coaching services not needed. Besides, you should know me well enough by now, to know I wouldn't write something like that in a million years anyway. :no:

Christine
26th August 2013, 00:01
Okay, taking a deep breath here before dipping into these waters. I don't think I can bear to read all the pages... and try as we may the theme of hostility keeps playing out, be it covert or overt this thread abounds in both.

So another deep breath... the subject of covert hostility is an important one to understand as many members have been subjected to this most nasty energy without even realizing it. And in my opinion there are stages we move through to release ourselves from these effects... the tone scale or any scale only serves us in identifying for ourselves where we are now. Helpful I am sure, more so for some than others.

We must use our ability to self reflect, I would guess that in most of us there are still shreds of covert hostility.... little whiffs or nuances not yet detected that are geared to provoke some sort of reactionary behavior. However, like gripreaper so eloquently expressed, we here on Avalon have accepted a, shall we call it, sacred charge to demonstrate the wisdom we have occurred throughout this time era.

Our choice - are we a herald call or a cacophony of discordant tones?

Third deep breath...

christian
26th August 2013, 00:18
I find the ability to deal with critizism lightheartedly most pleasing.

This is out of How To Choose Your People (http://www.whale.to/m/minshull.html) by Ruth Minshull:




A high-tone person makes himself understood easily. He’s capable of communicating deeply-felt ideas, but he does so with discrimination. He prefers dealing with constructive facts, rather than destructive ones. While a lower-tone doom salesman is reciting all the shocking news, he will be pointing to the survival activities occurring. He’ll mention a book that will help you make more money. He’ll describe a new development for making sturdier cars. He prefers discussing solutions, rather than clucking about the horribleness of it all.

He listens to others and understands them easily (provided the communication is understandable and does not exceed his educational level) and he can hear low-tone people without becoming upset, critical or derogatory.

My son told me about an upscale teacher who periodically gave the students a free discussion period in which they could make suggestions or comments about the class. One day a girl peevishly complained, "I don’t think you let us talk enough."

Not finding it necessary to argue or defend himself, he replied calmly: "Hmm. I think you’re right. I often talk too much."

Carmen
26th August 2013, 00:33
I found on my journey the need for me to develop the skill of listening. To often I wouldn't really be listening, I'd be busy thinking of what I wanted to say or impatiently waiting to say my bit! When someone is entirely 'present' with you, they are 'faithful'. Also with being present and listening comes an acceptance of what the other is saying, without judgement. When I'm with people like that, my whole being relaxes. When I'm with a critical or judgemental person, my defences are up. We do not get the gift the other person is attempting to impart without making them comfortable and acceptable. Their beingness is honoured by us being 'present'.

Hmm, I've probably gone right off topic with this post---Sorry!

jiminii
26th August 2013, 01:24
Thank you jim and thank you Flash for the explanation to my question, both your responses, even if contradict each other make sense. Something does not sit well with me about this thread and I am not sure what it is... I guess what I would like to see ( Again judgments, expectations from my side..) is a clearer separation between intentioned covert hostility and non intentioned.

Also, I feel that this tone scale where emotions are awarded with a score has its own covert message about it -that it is not okay to feel anger, to feel pain or guilt, the desired state is a total bliss. So, is it okay to feel those emotions, is it not? Am I throwing in my own interpretation?

Another thing -


Originally posted by Bill Ryan: " there MAY have been a functional correlation in previous generations when homosexual thoughts or feelings were very usually a guilty secret...

"..This keeping of a huge 'guilty' secret from almost everyone, 24/7, drains spiritual energy big-time and pushes one down the 'tone scale' -- as does any chronic feeling of guilt, whether justified or not."

Very true, so what could a homosexual men do in the 19 century where they had to keep secrets, otherwise were thrown to jail.. and even today are being judged covertly and being given again and again as a bad example for a human being.. What type of score would they recieve? How can they avoid feeling guilt? . It looks more like this classic case where the individuals need to change themselves in order to fit into society's perceptions of what is or is not natural, instead of society chosing to adopt the 'live and let live unless you are hurting someone else' attitude .

I think I know why I am tickled. not so much by jim's words such as this -

"You get around gays and their SPACE IS DIRTY, STICKY"

But more by the tollerence demonstrated towards such words (I am all for you jim, but not for your specific related words and opinions) and attempt to walk on stragiht line even when something else might be required, and that might be quite similiar to a covert hostility, just the opposite maybe.

Such words should be denounced

we go up and down this scale depending on how much free theta we have. In fact a High tone person can not communicate to a low tone person until he comes down to somewhere that matches the low tone person.

so here is this child crying and the parent is trying to communicate with the child in enthusiasm and the child just gets louder.

so you come down to about a half tone above grief in sympathy and the child will start to go in communication. By working half tones above another person's tone level you can raise their tone level up.

for the covert person he does the opposite. works the tones going down making everyone's conversation less valuable until he caves the person in.

jim

jiminii
26th August 2013, 01:48
covert hostility is between fear and and anger.


Gays are in the COVERT HOSTILITY range ,.. and to some degree are knife in the back people or attack from the back either with words or other means

they always make your conversations less than they are and the purpose is to bring your tone level down below them, so they can feel safe



You get around gays and their SPACE IS DIRTY, STICKY, and they push their feminism to extreme KNOWING that if bothers people. THEY KNOW it makes people feel weird and awkward and that is why they do it.

This is also why the GAYS OVER EXAGGERATE THEIR FEMINISM, TO PUT YOUR ATTENTION CONSTANTLY ON THIS BODY FUNCTION CALLED SEX,

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LOVE,

It is like a Vampire WHO can't get enough attention and so they want to trap your thoughts and energy on their weirdness

therefore, you can not trust GAYS they have perverted sex to use it for CONTROL and their hidden intention is to bring people down below them.

Since their survival is leaning towards death THEY DO NOT CARE WHO LIVES OR DIES. Put them in the News or Politics and they will follow any of these Bankers programs whether it kills everyone or not.

jim

Ouch i felt that. That was very painful.

peace

t would appear that Jim is the one who is covertly or shall I say overtly hostile. Why do you care, Jim? Don't you realize that we all choose a journey through which we experience our god selves individually and that gender identity is as shallow a pursuit as is anything physical? It just doesn't matter. Much bigger fish to fry. And on a footnote, some of the least sticky, most honorable and best friends I have known have been homosexual. Those rare homosexual males who are angry, hostile and "bitchy" are just not self actualized. They don't like what they have been given and resent it. Can you not exercise a modicum of empathy in the realization that they are fighting their own internal battle and not doing a stellar job of hiding their angst externally? Lack of empathy is the hallmark of sociopathy. We all started as wee babies. We need to start treating each other as such.

covert hostility is a tone. when you go up tone you will go through this tone. when you go down tone you will go through this tone.

I am not talking about Homosexuals or heterosexuals who are somewhere around this tone either above this tone level or below it.

I am talking about the 2 and a half percent of the world who use this tone to suppress people

they deliberately use this tone to suppress. that is a difference between someone who just happens to be covert hostile once in a while.

these 2 and a half percent would be like rockefeller the rothchilds obama ... they are the dangerous 2 and a half percent that use covert hostility as a way of operation to try to take over and enslave the people of the planet.

jim

Flash
26th August 2013, 01:57
covert hostility is between fear and and anger.


covert hostility is a tone. when you go up tone you will go through this tone. when you go down tone you will go through this tone.

I am not talking about Homosexuals or heterosexuals who are somewhere around this tone either above this tone level or below it.

I am talking about the 2 and a half percent of the world who use this tone to suppress people

they deliberately use this tone to suppress. that is a difference between someone who just happens to be covert hostile once in a while.

these 2 and a half percent would be like rockefeller the rothchilds obama ... they are the dangerous 2 and a half percent that use covert hostility as a way of operation to try to take over and enslave the people of the planet.

jim

Very interesting concept, Jimini and I kind of agree with it, but we may be using a different vocabulary for it. Would you be kind enough to explain to me the following:

1. A definition of what tones are in terms of emotionality, mental, whatever comes to you.
2. A description of how it is used for suppresson, deliberately and not
3. The covert hostility used by the 21/2 %: how would you describe their way of operation using it. From A to Z if possible (an example).
4. How is it related to the Free Theta? (if I remember what is a Free Theta, not sure)
5. Please explain further half tones.
6. Why would going down tones make the conversation less valuable? And makes the person cave in?

for the covert person he does the opposite. works the tones going down making everyone's conversation less valuable until he caves the person in.

Good homework to do hey ;). Many thanks in advance.

gripreaper
26th August 2013, 02:13
I have a few questions for Jiminii too..

1. When you came back from the future, did you run into Marty McFly?

2. Did Biff get the almanac before or after the last timeline shift?

3. Was Marty's mother actually his girlfriend in a previous life, and did he have sex with her, knowing that this was to be his mother in another life?

4. Did Doc Brown know you and Ron Hubbard were going to come back from the future and save planet earth from the Archon's, or did he not get that memo?

5. Why did Marty and Doc use the lightening strike of the clock tower to get enough gigabites to run the flux capacitor, when the black ops of zero point energy had already been developed, and they could have just set the DeLorean to Montauk in the 30's or Area 51 in the forties and then they wouldn't have needed banana peels?

How's that for overt hostile?

Flash
26th August 2013, 03:16
I do not know to whom you overt hostility is directed to, me of Jimini??? Since you used my questioning format.

But I had a good laugh.:peace:

jiminii
26th August 2013, 03:23
I have a few questions for Jiminii too..

1. When you came back from the future, did you run into Marty McFly?

2. Did Biff get the almanac before or after the last timeline shift?

3. Was Marty's mother actually his girlfriend in a previous life, and did he have sex with her, knowing that this was to be his mother in another life?

4. Did Doc Brown know you and Ron Hubbard were going to come back from the future and save planet earth from the Archon's, or did he not get that memo?

5. Why did Marty and Doc use the lightening strike of the clock tower to get enough gigabites to run the flux capacitor, when the black ops of zero point energy had already been developed, and they could have just set the DeLorean to Montauk in the 30's or Area 51 in the forties and then they wouldn't have needed banana peels?

How's that for overt hostile?

I had mc fly quarantined from going any further than is days in the old west, (didn't need that s*** anymore), so he just keeps doing a rerun of that lifetime, (hope he gets it right some day).

bif got lost inside the almanac itself and has never returned, ( i think he is having troubles reading before history stuff).

marty's mother is a time traveling adultress that marty never learned about it until way into the future by then he found out that it was she that seduced him knowing she would be his mother.

doc brown never knew that since is was a highly top secret operation

they should have just used their powers, (but I think they forgot them when they made the first leap)

jim

jiminii
26th August 2013, 03:27
covert hostility is between fear and and anger.


covert hostility is a tone. when you go up tone you will go through this tone. when you go down tone you will go through this tone.

I am not talking about Homosexuals or heterosexuals who are somewhere around this tone either above this tone level or below it.

I am talking about the 2 and a half percent of the world who use this tone to suppress people

they deliberately use this tone to suppress. that is a difference between someone who just happens to be covert hostile once in a while.

these 2 and a half percent would be like rockefeller the rothchilds obama ... they are the dangerous 2 and a half percent that use covert hostility as a way of operation to try to take over and enslave the people of the planet.

jim

Very interesting concept, Jimini and I kind of agree with it, but we may be using a different vocabulary for it. Would you be kind enough to explain to me the following:

1. A definition of what tones are in terms of emotionality, mental, whatever comes to you.
2. A description of how it is used for suppresson, deliberately and not
3. The covert hostility used by the 21/2 %: how would you describe their way of operation using it. From A to Z if possible (an example).
4. How is it related to the Free Theta? (if I remember what is a Free Theta, not sure)
5. Please explain further half tones.
6. Why would going down tones make the conversation less valuable? And makes the person cave in?

for the covert person he does the opposite. works the tones going down making everyone's conversation less valuable until he caves the person in.

Good homework to do hey ;). Many thanks in advance.

From Introduction to Ethics by LRH
in the Freezone download you can get from one of bill's links


THE ANTI-SOCIAL PERSONALITY
THE ANTI-SCIENTOLOGIST
There are certain characteristics and mental attitudes which cause about 20% of a race to oppose violently any betterment activity or group.
Such people are known to have anti-social tendencies.
When the legal or political structure of a country becomes such as to favor such per-sonalities in positions of trust, then all the civilizing organizations of the country become sup-pressed and a barbarism of criminality and economic duress ensues.
Crime and criminal acts are perpetuated by anti-social personalities. Inmates of institu-tions commonly trace their state back to contact with such personalities.
Thus, in the fields of government, police activities and mental health, to name a few, we see that it is important to be able to detect and isolate this personality type so as to protect society and individuals from the destructive consequences attendant upon letting such have free rein to injure others.
As they only comprise 20% of the population and as only 2½% of this 20% are truly dangerous, we see that with a very small amount of effort we could considerably better the state of society.
Well-known, even stellar, examples of such a personality are, of course, Napoleon and Hitler, Dillinger, Pretty Boy Floyd, Christie and other famous criminals were well-known ex-amples of the anti-social personality. But with such a cast of characters in history we neglect the less stellar examples and do not perceive that such personalities exist in current life, very common, often undetected.
When we trace the cause of a failing business, we will inevitably discover somewhere in its ranks the anti-social personality hard at work.
In families which are breaking up we commonly find one or the other of the persons involved to have such a personality.
Where life has become rough and is failing, a careful review of the area by a trained observer will detect one or more such personalities at work.
As there are 80% of us trying to get along and only 20% trying to prevent us, our lives would be much easier to live were we well-informed as to the exact manifestations of such a personality. Thus we could detect it and save ourselves much failure and heartbreak.
It is important then to examine and list the attributes of the anti-social personality. In-fluencing as it does the daily lives of so many, it well behooves decent people to become bet-ter informed on this subject.
ATTRIBUTES
The anti-social personality has the following attributes:
1. He or she speaks only in very broad generalities. ”They say…” ”Everybody thinks…” ”Everyone knows…” and such expressions are in continual use, particularly when im-parting rumor. When asked, ”Who is everybody . . .” it normally turns out to be one source and from this source the anti-social person has manufactured what he or she pretends is the whole opinion of the whole society.
This is natural to them since to them all society is a large hostile generality, against the anti-social in particular.
2. Such a person deals mainly in bad news, critical or hostile remarks, invalidation and general suppression.
”Gossip” or ”harbinger of evil tidings” or ”rumormonger” once described such persons.
It is notable that there is no good news or complimentary remark passed on by such a person.
3. The anti-social personality alters, to worsen, communication when he or she relays a message or news. Good news is stopped and only bad news, often embellished, is passed along.
Such a person also pretends to pass on ”bad news” which is in actual fact invented.
4. A characteristic, and one of the sad things about an anti-social personality, is that it does not respond to treatment or reform or psychotherapy.
5. Surrounding such a personality we find cowed or ill associates or friends who, when not driven actually insane, are yet behaving in a crippled manner in life, failing, not succeeding.
Such people make trouble for others.
When treated or educated, the near associate of the anti-social personality has no sta-bility of gain but promptly relapses or loses his advantages of knowledge, being under the suppressive influence of the other.
Physically treated, such associates commonly do not recover in the expected time but worsen and have poor convalescence’s.
It is quite useless to treat or help or train such persons so long as they remain under the influence of the anti-social connection.
The largest number of insane are insane because of such anti-social connections and do not recover easily for the same reason.
Unjustly we seldom see the anti-social personality actually in an institution. Only his ”friends” and family are there.
6. The anti-social personality habitually selects the wrong target.
If a tyre is flat from driving over nails, he or she curses a companion or a non-causative source of the trouble. If the radio next door is too loud, he or she kicks the cat.
If A is the obvious cause, the anti-social personality inevitably blames B, or C or D.
7. The anti-social cannot finish a cycle of action.
Such become surrounded with incomplete projects.
8. Many anti-social persons will freely confess to the most alarming crimes when forced to do so, but will have no faintest sense of responsibility for them.
Their actions have little or nothing to do with their own volition. Things ”just hap-pened”.
They have no sense of correct causation and particularly cannot feel any sense of re-morse or shame therefore.
9. The anti-social personality supports only destructive groups and rages against and at-tacks any constructive or betterment group.
10. This type of personality approves only of destructive actions and fights against con-structive or helpful actions or activities.
The artist in particular is often found as a magnet for persons with anti-social personal-ities who see in his art something which must be destroyed and covertly, ”as a friend”, proceed to try.
11. Helping others is an activity which drives the anti-social personality nearly berserk. Activities, however, which destroy in the name of help are closely supported.
12. The anti-social personality has a bad sense of property and conceives that the idea that anyone owns anything is a pretense made up to fool people. Nothing is ever really owned.
THE BASIC REASON
The basic reason the anti-social personality behaves as he or she does lies in a hidden terror of others.
To such a person every other being is an enemy, an enemy to be covertly or overtly de-stroyed.
The fixation is that survival itself depends on ”keeping others down” or ”keeping peo-ple ignorant”.
If anyone were to promise to make others stronger or brighter, the anti-social personal-ity suffers the utmost agony of personal danger.
They reason that if they are in this much trouble with people around them weak or stu-pid, they would perish should anyone become strong or bright.
Such a person has no trust to a point of terror. This is usually masked and unrevealed.
When such a personality goes insane the world is full of Martians or the FBI and each person met is really a Martian or FBI agent.
But the bulk of such people exhibit no outward signs of insanity. They appear quite ra-tional. They can be very convincing.
However, the list given above consists of things which such a personality cannot detect in himself or herself. This is so true that if you thought you found yourself in one of the above, you most certainly are not anti-social. Self-criticism is a luxury the anti-social cannot afford. They must be RIGHT because they are in continual danger in their own estimation. If you proved one WRONG, you might even send him or her into a severe illness.
Only the sane, well-balanced person tries to correct his conduct.

RELIEF
If you were to weed out of your past by proper search and discovery those anti-social persons you have known and if you then disconnected, you might experience great relief.
Similarly, if society were to recognize this personality type as a sick being as they now isolate people with smallpox, both social and economic recoveries could occur.
Things are not likely to get much better so long as 20% of the population is permitted to dominate and injure the lives and enterprise of the remaining 80%.
As majority rule is the political manner of the day, so should majority sanity express itself in our daily lives without the interference and destruction of the socially unwell.
The pity of it is, they will not permit themselves to be helped and would not respond to treatment if help were attempted.
An understanding and ability to recognize such personalities could bring a major change in society and our lives.
THE SOCIAL PERSONALITY
Man in his anxieties is prone to witch hunts.
All one has to do is designate ”people wearing black caps” as the villains and one can start a slaughter of people in black caps.
This characteristic makes it very easy for the anti-social personality to bring about a chaotic or dangerous environment.
Man is not naturally brave or calm in his human state. And he is not necessarily vil-lainous.
Even the anti-social personality, in his warped way, is quite certain that he is acting for the best and commonly sees himself as the only good person around, doing all for the good of everyone – the only flaw in his reasoning being that if one kills everyone else, none are left to be protected from the imagined evils. His conduct in his environment and toward his fellows is the only method of detecting either the antisocial or the social personalities. Their motives for self are similar – self-preservation and survival. They simply go about achieving these in different ways.
Thus, as Man is naturally neither calm nor brave, anyone to some degree tends to be alert to dangerous persons and hence, witch hunts can begin.
It is therefore even more important to identify the social personality than the anti-social personality. One then avoids shooting the innocent out of mere prejudice or dislike or because of some momentary misconduct.
The social personality can be defined most easily by comparison with his opposite, the anti-social personality.
This differentiation is easily done and no test should ever be constructed which iso-lates only the anti-social. On the same test must appear the upper as well as lower ranges of Man’s actions.
A test that declares only anti-social personalities without also being able to identify the social personality would be itself a suppressive test. It would be like answering ”Yes” or ”No” to the question ”Do you still beat your wife?” Anyone who took it could be found guilty. While this mechanism might have suited the times of the Inquisition, it would not suit modern needs.
As the society runs, prospers and lives solely through the efforts of social personalities, one must know them as they, not the anti-social, are the worthwhile people. These are the people who must have rights and freedom. Attention is given to the antisocial solely to protect and assist the social personalities in the society.
All majority rules, civilizing intentions and even the human race will fail unless one can identify and thwart the anti-social personalities and help and forward the social personalities in the society. For the very word ”society” implies social conduct and without it there is no society at all, only a barbarism with all men, good or bad, at risk.
The frailty of showing how the harmful people can be known is that these then apply the characteristics to decent people to get them hunted down and eradicated.
The swan song of every great civilization is the tune played by arrows, axes or bullets used by the anti-social to slay the last decent men.
Government is only dangerous when it can be employed by and for anti-social person-alities. The end result is the eradication of all social personalities and the resultant collapse of Egypt, Babylon, Rome, Russia or the West.
You will note in the characteristics of the anti-social personality that intelligence is not a clue to the anti-social. They are bright or stupid or average. Thus those who are extremely intelligent can rise to considerable, even head-of-state heights.
Importance and ability or wish to rise above others are likewise not indexes to the anti-social. When they do become important or rise they are, however, rather visible by the broad consequences of their acts. But they are as likely to be unimportant people or hold very lowly stations and wish for nothing better.
Thus it is the twelve given characteristics alone which identify the anti-social personal-ity. And these same twelve reversed are the sole criteria of the social personality if one wishes to be truthful about them.
The identification or labeling of an anti-social personality cannot be done honestly and accurately unless one also, in the same examination of the person, reviews the positive side of his life.
All persons under stress can react with momentary flashes of anti-social conduct. This does not make them anti-social personalities.
The true anti-social person has a majority of anti-social characteristics.
The social personality has a majority of social characteristics.
Thus one must examine the good with the bad before one can truly label the anti-social or the social.
In reviewing such matters, very broad testimony and evidence are best. One or two isolated instances determine nothing. One should search all twelve social and all twelve anti-social characteristics and decide on the basis of actual evidence, not opinion.
The twelve primary characteristics of the social personality are as follows:
1. The social personality is specific in relating circumstances. ”Joe Jones said…” ”The Star Newspaper reported…” and gives sources of data where important or possible.
He may use the generality of ”they” or ”people” but seldom in connection with attrib-uting statements or opinions of an alarming nature.
2. The social personality is eager to relay good news and reluctant to relay bad.
He may not even bother to pass along criticism when it doesn’t matter.
He is more interested in making another feel liked or wanted than disliked by others and tends to err toward reassurance rather than toward criticism.
3. A social personality passes communication without much alteration and if deleting anything tends to delete injurious matters.
He does not like to hurt people’s feelings. He sometimes errs in holding back bad news or orders which seem critical or harsh.
4. Treatment, reform and psychotherapy particularly of a mild nature work very well on the social personality.
Whereas anti-social people sometimes promise to reform, they do not. Only the social personality can change or improve easily.
It is often enough to point out unwanted conduct to a social personality to completely alter it for the better.
Criminal codes and violent punishment are not needed to regulate social personalities.
5. The friends and associates of a social personality tend to be well, happy and of good morale.
A truly social personality quite often produces betterment in health or fortune by his mere presence on the scene.
At the very least he does not reduce the existing levels of health or morale in his asso-ciates.
When ill, the social personality heals or recovers in an expected manner, and is found open to successful treatment.
6. The social personality tends to select correct targets for correction. He fixes the tyre that is flat rather than attack the windscreen. In the mechanical arts he can therefore repair things and make them work.
7. Cycles of action begun are ordinarily completed by the social personality, if possible.
8. The social personality is ashamed of his misdeeds and reluctant to confess them. He takes responsibility for his errors.
9. The social personality supports constructive groups and tends to protest or resist de-structive groups.
10. Destructive actions are protested by the social personality. He assists constructive or helpful actions.
11. The social personality helps others and actively resists acts which harm others.
12. Property is property of someone to the social personality and its theft or misuse is pre-vented or frowned upon.
THE BASIC MOTIVATION
The social personality naturally operates on the basis of the greatest good.
He is not haunted by imagined enemies but he does recognize real enemies when they exist.
The social personality wants to survive and wants others to survive, whereas the anti-social personality really and covertly wants others to succumb.
Basically the social personality wants others to be happy and do well, whereas the anti-social personality is very clever in making others do very badly indeed.
A basic clue to the social personality is not really his successes but his motivations. The social personality when successful is often a target for the anti-social and by this reason he may fail. But his intentions included others in his success, whereas the anti-social only ap-preciate the doom of others.
Unless we can detect the social personality and hold him safe from undue restraint and detect also the anti-social and restrain him, our society will go on suffering from insanity, criminality and war, and Man and civilization will not endure.
Of all our technical skills, such differentiation ranks the highest since, failing, no other skill can continue, as the base on which it operates – civilization – will not be here to continue it.
Do not smash the social personality – and do not fail to render powerless the anti-social in their efforts to harm the rest of us.
Just because a man rises above his fellows or takes an important part does not make him an anti-social personality. Just because a man can control or dominate others does not make him an anti-social personality.
It is his motives in doing so and the consequences of his acts which distinguish the an-ti-social from the social.
Unless we realize and apply the true characteristics of the two types of personality, we will continue to live in a quandary of who our enemies are and, in doing so, victimize our friends.
All men have committed acts of violence or omission for which they could be cen-sured. In all Mankind there is not one single perfect human being.
But there are those who try to do right and those who specialize in wrong and upon these facts and characteristics you can know them.

panopticon
26th August 2013, 03:54
Hi Jim,
Can you please supply sources for quoted (copy pasted) information in future and use the quote box (or some other way of designation) to show when and what you are quoting from a source.
Just saves me looking for where the information came from so as to assist me in my review and analysis of presented material.

The above is possibly quoted from:
http://www.scientologycourses.org/courses-view/suppression/step/the-antisocial-personality.html
http://www.scientologycourses.org/courses-view/suppression/step/social-personality.html

I am unsure how it related to Flash's question in regards to tone etc.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

jiminii
26th August 2013, 03:58
Hi Jim,
Can you please supply sources for quoted (copy pasted) information in future and use the quote box (or some other way of designation) to show when and what you are quoting from a source.
Just saves me looking for where the information came from so as to assist me in my review and analysis of presented material.

The above is possibly quoted from:
http://www.scientologycourses.org/courses-view/suppression/step/the-antisocial-personality.html
http://www.scientologycourses.org/courses-view/suppression/step/social-personality.html

I am unsure how it related to Flash's question in regards to tone etc.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

comes from download from Bill Ryan's someplace. The Free zone or ron's org stuff.
it is "introduction to ethics doc

jim

panopticon
26th August 2013, 04:03
Hi Jim,
Can you please supply sources for quoted (copy pasted) information in future and use the quote box (or some other way of designation) to show when and what you are quoting from a source.
Just saves me looking for where the information came from so as to assist me in my review and analysis of presented material.

The above is possibly quoted from:
http://www.scientologycourses.org/courses-view/suppression/step/the-antisocial-personality.html
http://www.scientologycourses.org/courses-view/suppression/step/social-personality.html

I am unsure how it related to Flash's question in regards to tone etc.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon
comes from download from Bill Ryan's someplace. The Free zone or ron's org stuff.
it is "introduction to ethics doc
jim

Thanks for the clarification.
Again, can you please show in your posts when you are quoting so I know they are not your words but that of another.

-- Pan

Roisin
26th August 2013, 04:03
It just boggles my mind how well adjusted most of you are here -- even to the extent that you have group therapy sessions, like what this thread is like, to hammer out whatever issues you all are dealing with at any given time.

In my view, most people here seem to be modeling after Bill, Christine and a few others who have a much more gentle approach when articulating their opposing view on something and it's clear to me that they have much practice doing that too.

But for those who are not used to using that kind of approach in those kind of situations, when they attempt to try Bill's way of doing it, they come off sounding passive-aggressive! There are differences in how different nationalities express themselves and most Americans are not especially skilled like those from the United Kingdom are, for example, when it comes to using that gentle and more oblique approach that he uses. And don't even get me started with the Japanese because they are much, much more oblique than any of us.




I could be wrong about all of this but these are just my own observations and nothing more.

judymoon
26th August 2013, 04:25
I, personally, never feel 'uneasy' about Fred's intentions and I appreciate his tongue-in-cheek humor.

Your example of an 'appropriate' response sounds like vintage Bill Ryan don't-ruffle-any-feathers, type of response.

I have to admit, when Jimini first showed up on this forum with his amazing, (some would say, outlandish) claims, his apparent expectation that everyone would know the scientology langage, his crazy, convoluted, almost impossible to understand ramblings, I thought the people on this forum would quickly give him some appropriate and much needed feedback. And they did.

I was really surprised when Bill Ryan came in as his advocate. It wasn't until then that I realised how strongly scientology had affected his thinking and belief system. Strongly enough that he thought he had to protect Jimini from the questions and critisims of the other members of the forum.

Heavy handed enough that I said a few things, and then just stopped reading threads started by Jimini, mostly because I rarely understand a thing he says.

However, I agree with a few other posters who wonder what the point of this thread is.

Learning about dangerous personality types is definately an important experience as we navigate this life.

I wish they taught a class about it in high school.

Sociopaths, narrcisists,emotional vampires, these are dangerous personality types that can wreck havoc in an unsuspecting persons life. Knowing what to look for and how to avoid becoming emotionally involved with these types is sometimes life and sanity saving.

The different mental illnesses that we deal with in relationship.....bi-polar, depression, borderline etc. These are all important things to learn about so we can better handle and understand ourselves, and people we are in relationship with.

But Jimini's post is almost not understandable unless you speak scientology, so what good is that for the majority of members on this forum? It could be said so much clearer and without pointing fingers at any particulat group of people. Without all the 'tones', past life clearing, and savior-of-the-planet chest thumping. Which, to me anyway, is really off-putting.

With all that in mind, I think Freds post addressed this issue with a very apt analogy.

jiminii
26th August 2013, 04:36
Flash

Very interesting concept, Jimini and I kind of agree with it, but we may be using a different vocabulary for it. Would you be kind enough to explain to me the following:

1. A definition of what tones are in terms of emotionality, mental, whatever comes to you.
2. A description of how it is used for suppresson, deliberately and not
3. The covert hostility used by the 21/2 %: how would you describe their way of operation using it. From A to Z if possible (an example).
4. How is it related to the Free Theta? (if I remember what is a Free Theta, not sure)
5. Please explain further half tones.
6. Why would going down tones make the conversation less valuable? And makes the person cave in?
Quote for the covert person he does the opposite. works the tones going down making everyone's conversation less valuable until he caves the person in.
Good homework to do hey . Many thanks in advance.

You can get exactly everything you need about tones and how it effects the mental and physical parts of someones body. (each tone level has it's own set of illnesses)
you can get this from the download from bill somewhere from the freezone

the book is Science of Survival by LRH

as for half tones.

ever try to talk to someone in anger with enthusiasm. you will not be able to get in communication with him until you can come close to matching his tone level.

a perfect example is. "look at this thread we are on. Look at how many buttons it pushed. So you see I am communicating close to someones tone level and you will get all the buttons show up."

so let's take someone in anger. He is yelling, "the government is no good they should all be shot, etc, etc"

so you say, "you're right. they are just terrible they hurt a lot of people. They cause pain to the world, they are no good"

pain is just up from angry so i can be half angry with him while I start raising his tone to pain.
after you will see him either pop up to pain or even pop up several tones ...

Like, "Well I'm glad I got that off, thanks for understanding."

if I go the other way with an anger guy.

I would do this. "you know the government is too big ... we have to get revenge secretly. If they know it in the open they will attack us."

I can bring him down to covert hostile ... then fear. "god ... I am really afraid of these A***** and I am afraid they will get us into WWIII"

knowing the tone scale you can drive people up or down.

jim

Flash
26th August 2013, 05:13
Very interesting, those tone scales. I will definitely try to get the scale, from freezone. Could not get much about any freezone anywhere near where I live.

The technic described is near a technic I taught (and also thought I had build....hum, it seems I was not the only one to build it) to control angry customers and make them come down to a level where you can help them. What you describe is a mix of empathy wtih knowing what to say. And yes, it can be used both way, to make someone afraid or angry, or to sooth someone fright or anger.

The scientology approach seems more complet than mine however.

As for the personalities types, we are talking about the same thing, it is just our vocabulary that is different. By the way, following actual science, it is not 21/2% of the 20% that are dangerous and very sociopathic/psychopatic, but 2 to 4% of the general population, which makes it worst. The remaining 16 to 18% who have tendencies are more controllable, yet, they will follow the 2%.

In fact, we could put it on a Bell curve, with 2% at the regressive end of the Spectrum and 2% at the propulsive end of the Spectrum, the bulk of humans being in the middle.

This too I was teaching for handling difficult customers, some of them quite antisocial (or plainly drugged which made them antisocial).

I had another approach written by a French author to describe the ansisocial behaviors mixed with the approach of a French psychiatrist who wrote on narcissists.

To contravene the sociopath manipulations, I was using some easy NLP techniques, based of grammatical usage, related to correcting the false information given. It works almost all the time.

The last aspect is self control which come with "know yourself" approaches.

Limor Wolf
26th August 2013, 06:45
we go up and down this scale depending on how much free theta we have. In fact a High tone person can not communicate to a low tone person until he comes down to somewhere that matches the low tone person.

so here is this child crying and the parent is trying to communicate with the child in enthusiasm and the child just gets louder.

so you come down to about a half tone above grief in sympathy and the child will start to go in communication. By working half tones above another person's tone level you can raise their tone level up.

for the covert person he does the opposite. works the tones going down making everyone's conversation less valuable until he caves the person in.

jim

I understand it much better now, Thank you.

Ultima Thule
26th August 2013, 06:49
The tone scale is very interesting! I´ve seen some other quite similar scales that I have found to work for me in the sense of: don´t even try to jump from a place of fear directly to a place of love, but if you can upgrade yourself from to fear a notch up to maybe just concerned, it is a good start.

I am (be it overt or covert) however annoyed by Romans dictative posts in this thread. Looking at the scale that has been presented here I have an opinion where I would place them, ranging some levels post-by-post, but close to one another.

Where would you Roman place your posts in this thread if you consider reading them as someone else?
I feel that you may be in a certain level in the scale in your presence for real or you might have a belief of yourself as expressing certain level. Do your posts in your opinion reflect the level you feel to be on, if you think of reading them as someone else than you?

UT

araucaria
26th August 2013, 07:21
On the contrary, I find Fred's commentary an amusing rise in the level of frequency from what was being demonstrated & felt previously.

Just remember - ALL WORDS ARE LIES -
So, not to worry... and certainly not to be too, too serious about anything anybody is telling...

Turiya, I have already commented elsewhere on this ‘truth’ of yours. If ‘All words are lies’, then what makes that statement suddenly true? I’ll tell you what: the contrary but nuanced statement that ‘All words (statements) contain a grain of truth’. The nuances of language are what give it a degree of truth. The only true blanket statement then might be: ‘All blanket statements are false’, because it leaves room for truths to be expressed.

Let me adjust this to the context of this thread. Your blanket statement, in BOLD BLUE ITALICIZED CAPITALS, looks like an example of covert hostility, namely falsity passing off as truth. If you yourself believe the statement ‘All words are lies’, then what on earth are you doing on a language-based forum propagating lies among liars? You have painted yourself into a corner, and you yourself are inviting people to disregard your otherwise interesting comments.

In other words, you are not so much practicing covert hostility as acting like the reverse of a snake-oil salesman: your product may be good, but your sales pitch suggests otherwise. But words come in all sorts of packaging, and the absence of voices and facial gestures makes them ambiguous. When you look at the substance of what he is saying, Fred’s tone probably contains (among other things, because language is always complex) a degree of diplomacy and polite deference, which is not covert hostility but respectful disagreement addressed at Bill, the power behind the throne.

The ability to question the boss’s positions is crucial to the health of any regime. The king’s fool was there to fill the vacuum left by over-deferent courtiers. A regime collapses when the king has been getting 100% disinfo and becomes cut off from reality. So, however clumsy or multilayered his tone, and possibly incorrect as to the substance, Fred’s comment needed to be posted.

As I’ve said before on a number of occasions, we really all need to hone our language skills – which is of course precisely what we are doing here. The forum has reached a maturity whereby we read each other’s posts with the possibility of covert hostility in the back of our minds, but with a presumption of innocent clumsiness. This is of course what Jim is implicitly requesting for himself, and paradoxically, it is this unsuspicious attitude that he says got us into this situation in the first place.

We had this discussion of what I call ‘sophisticated innocence’ on the Here & Now thread last March:



Pursuing my thoughts on leadership in an earlier post. If the leader is acting out on behalf of/driven by the grassroots, then we may take the counterintuitive view that politicians of late have been no exception, and have continued to fulfill voters’ expectations. As these expectations approached zero and worse, they have behaved accordingly. We do not get the leadership that we deserve or want, we get the leadership that we expect.

The key then is to expect what we really want (and deserve). This is a form of the ‘naïve optimism’ that is so decried on this forum and that some of us see rather differently. It cannot be truly naive since it is conscious. It is actually ‘sophisticated innocence’, which only sounds like an oxymoron to the extent that we haven’t fully understood the concept.

How do we get from where we are to where we want to be? Well some sophisticated innocents have been voting in a few politicians like forum member Simon Parkes, who are already acting upon these positive expectations. As our expectations gradually increase, their performance will follow. This will be so, just as surely as the same principle has so far applied in the opposite direction: the more corrupt we can imagine our politicians to be, the more corrupt they have shown themselves to be.

Unfortunately, I am not sure that forums like Avalon, yes Avalon, have turned this corner yet.


Thank you for this very good post. I have been thinking about his for years, how the cycle of life works...
Being born ignorant, naive and innocent we are plunged into a world of contradictions,
to which we react each in our unique way, often angry, bewildered, or withdraw altogether.
To find a balanced response that does not perpetuate the vicious circle we expose ourselves as naive, and encounter ridicule.
Yet the alternative, with its accompanying cynicism, can never take us out of the vicious circle of ever perpetuating hostility.
Sophisticated innocence, which means innocence by choice, is the only true option that stands a chance to bring about the world we desire. Thank you for bringing this up. I hope others can join in and add their thoughts.

TODD & NORA
26th August 2013, 07:36
..........

Flash
26th August 2013, 07:52
I ignore the hostile when I see that the end result will be either negative for all involved. Or when I decide to play with it by rendering the person non existent at all. Otherwise, it seems to me that ignoring hostility is encouraging the continuation of it. When we do not name what is happening that is detrimental to others, we in fact participate to the spreading of it. In my opinion of course.

I will ignore pettiness, because time resolve it and not much harm is created, but I will not very often ignore a sociopath.

A psychopath denounced is a psychopath who has lost most of its power.

Rahkyt
26th August 2013, 08:13
It just boggles my mind how well adjusted most of you are here -- even to the extent that you have group therapy sessions, like what this thread is like, to hammer out whatever issues you all are dealing with at any given time.

It is indeed very interesting to bear witness to the tangling of neurons that occurs here. Considering the trigger that was pulled in the OP, that the thread was able to continue I attribute in large part to Bill's intervention, Jim's recognition of and apology for choosing such a difficult example and the relatively evolved opposition.

I think the sub-text here is revealed in the evolution of the discussion. Even within the alternative community, some things remain difficult to discuss because they are general human tendencies that transcend political orientation. Here, where most people consider themselves Awake and Aware to cultural and societal ills, the deeper strains of human nature and transcending those self-perceived limitations remain our limitations, speaking very generally. Once the emotions have been roiled and a certain tact has been taken in the course of a thread, ad hominem attacks come fast and furious and begin to take on an unfair taint. Here in this thread, a discussion about hostility that used, as an example, a category of people self-identified by sexual preference then becomes an attack on the person who pointed out this behavior.

The example that I used later in the thread of black people with attitudes of covert hostility in jobs around the country might have triggered someone else, if I were not black myself. Does that mean that I should not recognize this behavior? Or that I should defend it? Perhaps if I did so, then I would be identifying with that behavior and that population that engages in it. If I point out the behavior of white people in the thread, stating that they're all racist, they hide their purses (for the ladies) and bristle with aggression when I come around their kids (if you're a man), will that pull a trigger in some white people reading it? Because I recognize this behavior and make a generality about it?

If a generality is internalized and gives rise to an emotional response within, that means that, in some fashion, I am identifying with it. Perhaps I am commiserating with the population under seeming attack, and so, in turn, I attack, pull down the person who vocalized the perceived offense, thereby gaining some form of emotional satisfaction from having responded in what I deem to be a supportive and favorable manner aligned with my cultural ideals. Perhaps, also, I am making the choice that I consider to be the righteous one; I am standing up for a population that has been slandered and maligned. I am making a choice to support one side of a dichotomy over the other. If homosexuality is deemed, in my view, to be alright, then they and those who support them are the good guys, and those who do not think homosexuality is alright, are the bad guys.

I, personally, have done this in support of my own personal belief system and morality rating scale on many, many occasions in my life.

In large part, now, this is part of my current conundrum. Like Ulli and some others, once I had certain spiritual experiences, I seemed to move into another perceptive space. By doing so, what had been very powerful imperatives to stand up for the underdogs in life and to battle in the service of righteousness and truth were revealed to me as culturally determinative and morally questionable or even negative forays into patterns of energy exchange that feed Tulpas and collective 4D constructs that have made an industry out of culling human emotional fields over a period of many millennia. The shift in me has led to confusion on the part of those who know my achievements but do not understand why I am not fully invested in the system, employing my understanding for the benefit of those at the very lowest rungs of a system where, now, most people are overtly enslaved.

So, what do I do with a lifetime of knowledge, gained in order to help elevate and educate populations about the ills of society and the plight of minority populations? How do I engage in regular conversations about these issues, how do I take sides and invest my energies into the furtherance of a doomed system, when I know that both sides are feeding the same greater energetic structure that is not invested in our individual material or spiritual freedoms, but is instead, impersonal and vampiric, integrally designed to keep me and everyone else enslaved to a mechanistic process of material and spiritual servitude from here to eternity? Not to mention, genocide me and those I know and are like me and then cull our energy for some Harvest, as if we were just batteries designed to satiate the appetites of so-called Elite and higher D entities?

These are the choices we all eventually must consider, based upon our own personal life-paths and destinies, if we are attempting to attain a state of utter clarity.

Ultimately, the thread topic is concerned with Enlightenment. With clearing of these personality traits that lower energy. The top of the chart that was posted here was Clear. Enlightenment. All else is really just the dross related to incomplete understanding, of each other, and of the energies at work, the energies raised by discussions of this type.

If you are coming from that perspective, then the petty argumentation, the covert and overt aggressions, the sidebars related to Scientology and Time Travel are recognized as signs of individual orientation and experience at different levels of psycho-spiritual nature. Of the power of our emotions and loyalties and our commitments to our own family and friends, our ideals and our beliefs.

Will this perspective trigger someone else? Probably. The enlightenment experience and those who claim it always undergo periods of trial and tribulation in spaces where folks at different stages of their own personal spiritual evolution have congregated. From that experience, as from the greater cosmic perspective, energy must be conserved. All of it. That includes sexual energy. That includes emotional energy. That includes mental energy. That includes spiritual energy.

Very Conservative. But beyond Left and Right. So all human dalliance within forms of physical and material satiation are considered excess. There are no exceptions. And, of course, many people take exception to that lack of exceptions. Denigrate the entire process, malign those who claim it, create tales of cosmic errors and mistakes that supposedly negate basic laws of creation or reveal those laws to be corrupted and, therefore, non-applicable. Then, they trumpet the physical fulfillment of life experience, claim illusion and play and relativity as excuse to justify anything and everything, or, just their peculiar tendencies. It is all ok, anybody can do what they want, everything is fine. And they are correct. It is. But at the same time, it is not. Paradox. But, not.

Who can argue, with that? It is what it is. And yet, arguments ensue.

What we do as humans is perfect. And is imperfect. We are each exactly where and who we are supposed to be. And we are not. If we are gay, if we incarnate as black, if we love sheep or dogs, if we are mass murderers, if we are child molesters, if we are psychopaths, it is all perfect and exactly how things are supposed to be. And it is not.

Now will that comment trigger someone else? Probably. Or, then again, probably not.

araucaria
26th August 2013, 09:48
covert hostility is a tone. when you go up tone you will go through this tone. when you go down tone you will go through this tone.

...

I am talking about the 2 and a half percent of the world who use this tone to suppress people

they deliberately use this tone to suppress. that is a difference between someone who just happens to be covert hostile once in a while.

these 2 and a half percent would be like rockefeller the rothchilds obama ... they are the dangerous 2 and a half percent that use covert hostility as a way of operation to try to take over and enslave the people of the planet.

jim
The typical example is Shakespeare’s Iago, the ‘honest friend’ who pushes Othello’s and others’ buttons out of hatred, jealousy and revenge. A murderous button-pusher.

Make the Moor thank me, love me, and reward me
For making him egregiously an ass,
And practising upon his peace and quiet
Even to madness. ’Tis here, but yet confused.
Knavery’s plain face is never seen till used. Interestingly, when the detective writer Agatha Christie portrays such a character, the only device she can find to stop the carnage is to have her sleuth Hercule Poirot rise from his deathbed to execute him. There is no ordinary way of dealing with this.

markpierre
26th August 2013, 10:17
For those who have learned to resist believing that their human identity is who they are,
it's no different in identifying a 'hostile' as it's attitude. I presume the point is to learn to meet the
victims of their own hostility with a helpful response. I like the use of the word 'tones'.
I use that to describe my day or how I feel sometimes.
I can see how in language it can be a tool as well as a weapon. Thanks for illustrating that.
You guys who think you're awake and others aren't, haven't noticed yet that everything is awake
relative to yourself. Or everything is sleeping '' ''.

ulli
26th August 2013, 11:42
I woke up at 5 am and started reading on this page, and must say I feel humbled to be in this company of people.
The level of sensitivity expressed here, and brilliant, illumined thoughts has me speechless. Just wanted to say that.
Rahkyt, you have outdone yourself. Araucaria, I expected no better, but I'm sure you will continue to not only live up to my normal expectations of you, but take me beyond my wildest dreams and hopes for mankind.

And to Jiminii, despite your clumsy naive and sloppily written posts you have managed to reach my soul, which does not mean I would ever sign it over to LRH for 5 billion years, as I don't think such contracts are even necessary amongst real friends.
I have always liked Sci-Fi, and in a way Sci-fi is the only form of religion that works for me,
just as the Internet is becoming increasingly the only social place of interaction I enjoy.

Flash
26th August 2013, 11:57
You are go .... dam so right Rakhyt. No later than Saturday night, two Young boys walked my daughter home so that she would not be in danger, telling her they would walk back to their home (a 11/2 hour walk). She phoned to tell me. This did not make sense to me so I was in the basement, the window opened so that I would hear them coming and offer the boys a 15 minutes drive to their home.

They came, I opened the door and offered them the ride, which they politely accepted telling me I was nice to offer, and me telling them "no, I am fully respectful of your action of walking my daughter home at this time of the night, many thanks".

My daughter then told me she had offered the boys to get in, but one of them, a black boy, said "no, I have those weird contact lenses that will scare your mom and above all, I am black, she will be more afraid".

I could not believe it, but here it is, he was expecting covert agressivity from me. He has internalized it. From seeing it all the time.

I could not care less about the color of his skin,(I did care about not seeing his eyes though, the soul part) he was much better than all those who never walked my daughter back. And, I do have black people in my family, I truly could not care less. Yet, me too I was, in a way, subjected to this societal covert agressivity.

Universality will be learned through my and my daughter's behavior, in those situations, it seems.

araucaria
26th August 2013, 12:12
I could not believe it, but here it is, he was expecting covert agressivity from me. He has internalized it. From seeing it all the time.

I could not care less about the color of his skin, he was much better than all those who never walked my daughter back. And, I do have black people in my family, I truly could not care less. Yet, me to I was subjected to this societal covert agressivity, in a different way.
This is what Sartre's existentialist philosophy calls être pour autrui (being for others): you define yourself in terms of what other people think, which is to demonstrate mauvaise foi (bad faith) when instead of conforming to stereotypes you ought to be claiming the freedom to be yourself. This boy is halfway there because at the same time he is disregarding the stereotype of dangerous company by courteously escorting Mini Flash in the first place.

ulli
26th August 2013, 12:33
You are go .... dam so right Rakhyt. No later than Saturday night, two Young boys walked my daughter home so that she would not be in danger, telling her they would walk back to their home (a 11/2 hour walk). She phoned to tell me. This did not make sense to me so I was in the basement, the window opened so that I would hear them coming and offer the boys a 15 minutes drive to their home.

They came, I opened the door and offered them the ride, which they politely accepted telling me I was nice to offer, and me telling them "no, I am fully respectful of your action of walking my daughter home at this time of the night, many thanks".

My daughter then told me she had offered the boys to get in, but one of them, a black boy, said "no, I have those weird contact lenses that will scare your mom and above all, I am black, she will be more afraid".

I could not believe it, but here it is, he was expecting covert agressivity from me. He has internalized it. From seeing it all the time.

I could not care less about the color of his skin,(I did care about not seeing his eyes though, the soul part) he was much better than all those who never walked my daughter back. And, I do have black people in my family, I truly could not care less. Yet, me too I was, in a way, subjected to this societal covert agressivity.

Universality will be learned through my and my daughter's behavior, in those situations, it seems.

What you did there for your daughter's black friend will probably affect his future in a more positive way than the busing legislations and job quota which in the past left many blacks even more cynical and angry at whites, in their discovery how much more deeply separationism rules white society.
Both cultures have so much to learn from each other, but it cannot come about unless whites show a willingness to be members of the tribe of humanity, and blacks show a willingness to develop their own inner light being, possibly in isolation, and their individual uniqueness, and let go of their fear of whites.

jiminii
26th August 2013, 13:48
It just boggles my mind how well adjusted most of you are here -- even to the extent that you have group therapy sessions, like what this thread is like, to hammer out whatever issues you all are dealing with at any given time.

It is indeed very interesting to bear witness to the tangling of neurons that occurs here. Considering the trigger that was pulled in the OP, that the thread was able to continue I attribute in large part to Bill's intervention, Jim's recognition of and apology for choosing such a difficult example and the relatively evolved opposition.

I think the sub-text here is revealed in the evolution of the discussion. Even within the alternative community, some things remain difficult to discuss because they are general human tendencies that transcend political orientation. Here, where most people consider themselves Awake and Aware to cultural and societal ills, the deeper strains of human nature and transcending those self-perceived limitations remain our limitations, speaking very generally. Once the emotions have been roiled and a certain tact has been taken in the course of a thread, ad hominem attacks come fast and furious and begin to take on an unfair taint. Here in this thread, a discussion about hostility that used, as an example, a category of people self-identified by sexual preference then becomes an attack on the person who pointed out this behavior.

The example that I used later in the thread of black people with attitudes of covert hostility in jobs around the country might have triggered someone else, if I were not black myself. Does that mean that I should not recognize this behavior? Or that I should defend it? Perhaps if I did so, then I would be identifying with that behavior and that population that engages in it. If I point out the behavior of white people in the thread, stating that they're all racist, they hide their purses (for the ladies) and bristle with aggression when I come around their kids (if you're a man), will that pull a trigger in some white people reading it? Because I recognize this behavior and make a generality about it?

If a generality is internalized and gives rise to an emotional response within, that means that, in some fashion, I am identifying with it. Perhaps I am commiserating with the population under seeming attack, and so, in turn, I attack, pull down the person who vocalized the perceived offense, thereby gaining some form of emotional satisfaction from having responded in what I deem to be a supportive and favorable manner aligned with my cultural ideals. Perhaps, also, I am making the choice that I consider to be the righteous one; I am standing up for a population that has been slandered and maligned. I am making a choice to support one side of a dichotomy over the other. If homosexuality is deemed, in my view, to be alright, then they and those who support them are the good guys, and those who do not think homosexuality is alright, are the bad guys.

I, personally, have done this in support of my own personal belief system and morality rating scale on many, many occasions in my life.

In large part, now, this is part of my current conundrum. Like Ulli and some others, once I had certain spiritual experiences, I seemed to move into another perceptive space. By doing so, what had been very powerful imperatives to stand up for the underdogs in life and to battle in the service of righteousness and truth were revealed to me as culturally determinative and morally questionable or even negative forays into patterns of energy exchange that feed Tulpas and collective 4D constructs that have made an industry out of culling human emotional fields over a period of many millennia. The shift in me has led to confusion on the part of those who know my achievements but do not understand why I am not fully invested in the system, employing my understanding for the benefit of those at the very lowest rungs of a system where, now, most people are overtly enslaved.

So, what do I do with a lifetime of knowledge, gained in order to help elevate and educate populations about the ills of society and the plight of minority populations? How do I engage in regular conversations about these issues, how do I take sides and invest my energies into the furtherance of a doomed system, when I know that both sides are feeding the same greater energetic structure that is not invested in our individual material or spiritual freedoms, but is instead, impersonal and vampiric, integrally designed to keep me and everyone else enslaved to a mechanistic process of material and spiritual servitude from here to eternity? Not to mention, genocide me and those I know and are like me and then cull our energy for some Harvest, as if we were just batteries designed to satiate the appetites of so-called Elite and higher D entities?

These are the choices we all eventually must consider, based upon our own personal life-paths and destinies, if we are attempting to attain a state of utter clarity.

Ultimately, the thread topic is concerned with Enlightenment. With clearing of these personality traits that lower energy. The top of the chart that was posted here was Clear. Enlightenment. All else is really just the dross related to incomplete understanding, of each other, and of the energies at work, the energies raised by discussions of this type.

If you are coming from that perspective, then the petty argumentation, the covert and overt aggressions, the sidebars related to Scientology and Time Travel are recognized as signs of individual orientation and experience at different levels of psycho-spiritual nature. Of the power of our emotions and loyalties and our commitments to our own family and friends, our ideals and our beliefs.

Will this perspective trigger someone else? Probably. The enlightenment experience and those who claim it always undergo periods of trial and tribulation in spaces where folks at different stages of their own personal spiritual evolution have congregated. From that experience, as from the greater cosmic perspective, energy must be conserved. All of it. That includes sexual energy. That includes emotional energy. That includes mental energy. That includes spiritual energy.

Very Conservative. But beyond Left and Right. So all human dalliance within forms of physical and material satiation are considered excess. There are no exceptions. And, of course, many people take exception to that lack of exceptions. Denigrate the entire process, malign those who claim it, create tales of cosmic errors and mistakes that supposedly negate basic laws of creation or reveal those laws to be corrupted and, therefore, non-applicable. Then, they trumpet the physical fulfillment of life experience, claim illusion and play and relativity as excuse to justify anything and everything, or, just their peculiar tendencies. It is all ok, anybody can do what they want, everything is fine. And they are correct. It is. But at the same time, it is not. Paradox. But, not.

Who can argue, with that? It is what it is. And yet, arguments ensue.

What we do as humans is perfect. And is imperfect. We are each exactly where and who we are supposed to be. And we are not. If we are gay, if we incarnate as black, if we love sheep or dogs, if we are mass murderers, if we are child molesters, if we are psychopaths, it is all perfect and exactly how things are supposed to be. And it is not.

Now will that comment trigger someone else? Probably. Or, then again, probably not.

I was in the park in New York City singing my songs when this Old Black man came up and started screaming something about black and white. Didn't even know what he was talking about.

So I said, "let me see your hand" and he stuck his hand out while I counted all his fingers and all my fingers.

I said, "hmmm you got the same number of fingers I do."

I said, "look you have a wrist too, just like mine"

I said, "and the elbows look the same and arms too."

I said, "what are you talking about this black and white."

he looked at me and smiled and gave me a hug and sat down and we sang more songs.

simple

just communicate.

jim

araucaria
26th August 2013, 13:53
I find that ignoring the hostile types is typically sufficient unto itself, as they self-destruct eventually.
Sure, but you must lose out with the 'covertly friendly' unconsciously playing hard to get. It sounds like Jim's finger-counting exchange wouldn't haven't got as far as two ;)

jiminii
26th August 2013, 14:14
I, personally, never feel 'uneasy' about Fred's intentions and I appreciate his tongue-in-cheek humor.

Your example of an 'appropriate' response sounds like vintage Bill Ryan don't-ruffle-any-feathers, type of response.

I have to admit, when Jimini first showed up on this forum with his amazing, (some would say, outlandish) claims, his apparent expectation that everyone would know the scientology langage, his crazy, convoluted, almost impossible to understand ramblings, I thought the people on this forum would quickly give him some appropriate and much needed feedback. And they did.

I was really surprised when Bill Ryan came in as his advocate. It wasn't until then that I realised how strongly scientology had affected his thinking and belief system. Strongly enough that he thought he had to protect Jimini from the questions and critisims of the other members of the forum.

Heavy handed enough that I said a few things, and then just stopped reading threads started by Jimini, mostly because I rarely understand a thing he says.

However, I agree with a few other posters who wonder what the point of this thread is.

Learning about dangerous personality types is definately an important experience as we navigate this life.

I wish they taught a class about it in high school.

Sociopaths, narrcisists,emotional vampires, these are dangerous personality types that can wreck havoc in an unsuspecting persons life. Knowing what to look for and how to avoid becoming emotionally involved with these types is sometimes life and sanity saving.

The different mental illnesses that we deal with in relationship.....bi-polar, depression, borderline etc. These are all important things to learn about so we can better handle and understand ourselves, and people we are in relationship with.

But Jimini's post is almost not understandable unless you speak scientology, so what good is that for the majority of members on this forum? It could be said so much clearer and without pointing fingers at any particulat group of people. Without all the 'tones', past life clearing, and savior-of-the-planet chest thumping. Which, to me anyway, is really off-putting.

With all that in mind, I think Freds post addressed this issue with a very apt analogy.

you know when you are around a lot of people who are in the same world as you and you find yourself talking all these other words as an everyday thing, I find it very hard to try to describe something spiritual in regular english.

Example is Theta. we use it a lot. if someone has a lot of free theta then people like to be around him, and with enough free theta he can heal people.

That is the first thing that happened to me. Someone has a toothache and I moved my hand near her face near her tooth. I didn't even touch her. Her head jerked back and she said, "what did you do ..... my toothache is gone."

I said, "I don't know what I did."

someone is rolling on the floor in extreme pain from something in her intestines on the right side. She is SCREAMING.

I moved my hand near the side of her body and suddenly she said, "jim the pain is gone."

now it would have stopped there if there wasn't some kind of premonition that I should move my hand more to the center.

I said, "I think I have to move it more this way." and suddenly her body jerks and she says, "something inside of me moved."

I said, "I think I should move it more." and I did and her body jerked again and she says, "Jim it moved again ...... Jim ..... there is white lines coming from your fingers."

I couldn't see the white lines, but she could seem them.

How do I use another word besides theta. if you want to raise your theta level up just start imagining putting gold inside your body and just keep putting the gold in there.

you can raise the amount of free theta inside your body.

A spirit CAN CREATE UNLIMITED AMOUNTS OF FREE THETA. How do I tell you in English words. You have some of the most complicated english I have ever read and I have to try to piece all this english together to try to understand what you are saying too.

Yes I try to say it in farmers words. But there is not, THAT many words you would have to learn, to be speaking like a scientologist.

we talk about postulates all the time. I am talking postulates that can change weather and powers beyond your wildest dreams and WE TALK ABOUT IT AS COMMON LANGUAGE.

for example: a girl is driving her car. she is OT. How do I say OT simple. It means a spirit able to operate outside the body.

a car comes in from the side street and doesn't stop at the stop light and just comes right into the intersection and so she pushes the car back up against the curb.

and the man in the car says, "hey lady how did you do that?"

she said, "please drive more careful"

I am talking to WOG people. (that is the term we use for others not familiar with us.) It means Western Oriental Gentleman.

it is the terms the Eastern religious people use to describe the obstinate westerner who comes in to tell them he knows more than they do.

So they turn his cane into an illusion and he sees it become a snake and he runs out the door.

So how do you talk to people about religious things without the WORDS that best describe it.

jim

northstar
26th August 2013, 14:22
I would like to mention that this thread is impacting me in interesting ways.

When Jim used homophobic language in his post to try to make his point about covert hostility it triggered me to respond to the unwarranted attack on GLBT people as a group. I try very hard to judge individuals for their actions, and avoid sweeping generalizations about groups of people. I have come to the conclusion that while Jim is unskilled in his method of written communication, I think his heart is in the right place. I appreciate the fact that he is open to feedback and correction and that is a big plus in my books.

Once Jim apologized for his homophobic comments and information was posted about the tone chart and covert hostility I had a chance to look at the chart and read the materials and I found it fascinating. Since then I am finding this material, especially the tone scale, is resonating with me personally. It is filling in some of the pieces of my own personal perceptual puzzle and I am finding it a useful mental construct.

On a more cerebral level I am observing a lot of fascinating behavior in this thread - a lot of covert and overt hostility!! haha!! I am not saying this with malice or to attack anyone, it it just what I have noticed.

I am now using this useful concept (the tone scale and covert hostility) to check my own communications and the behavior and speech of others. This is a fascinating topic to study and I wish it hadn't be derailed by that homophobia discussion BUT perhaps the emotions generated by the homophobia discussion provided the "juice" to get people to put their shadow out there so it could all be examined in the calm light of day.

Love to you all.

ulli
26th August 2013, 14:37
I am talking to WOG people. (that is the term we use for others not familiar with us.) It means Western Oriental Gentleman.

it is the terms the Eastern religious people use to describe the obstinate westerner who comes in to tell them he knows more than they do.

So they turn his cane into an illusion and he sees it become a snake and he runs out the door.

So how do you talk to people about religious things without the WORDS that best describe it.

jim


The term WOG has lots of racist connotations, as it was used mostly by the British when describing Pakistanis and Indians as opposed to Chinese who were eastern orientals.

This is the entry in Wikipedia:
"Wog is slang word in the idiom of British and Australian English employed as an ethnic or racial slur. Considered derogatory and offensive, in British English it is often applied in reference to dark-skinned or olive-skinned person from Africa or Asia. It can be applied to any darker-skinned people, but is used generally to refer to peoples of the East Indies and India, as well as immigrants or migrant workers from the Middle-East."

No wonder Scientologists have a bad reputation...
That word has always been a total no-no, as far as I'm concerned.
But open communication, as you said, Jim, can get to the root of all misunderstandings.

jiminii
26th August 2013, 14:47
I am talking to WOG people. (that is the term we use for others not familiar with us.) It means Western Oriental Gentleman.

it is the terms the Eastern religious people use to describe the obstinate westerner who comes in to tell them he knows more than they do.

So they turn his cane into an illusion and he sees it become a snake and he runs out the door.

So how do you talk to people about religious things without the WORDS that best describe it.

jim


The term WOG has lots of racist connotations, as it was used mostly by the British when describing Pakistanis and Indians as opposed to Chinese who were eastern orientals.

This is the entry in Wikipedia:
"Wog is slang word in the idiom of British and Australian English employed as an ethnic or racial slur. Considered derogatory and offensive, in British English it is often applied in reference to dark-skinned or olive-skinned person from Africa or Asia. It can be applied to any darker-skinned people, but is used generally to refer to peoples of the East Indies and India, as well as immigrants or migrant workers from the Middle-East."

No wonder Scientologists have a bad reputation...
That word has always been a total no-no, as far as I'm concerned.
But open communication, as you said, Jim, can get to the root of all misunderstandings.

wow never saw this definition

thanks

jim

jiminii
26th August 2013, 14:53
I am talking to WOG people. (that is the term we use for others not familiar with us.) It means Western Oriental Gentleman.

it is the terms the Eastern religious people use to describe the obstinate westerner who comes in to tell them he knows more than they do.

So they turn his cane into an illusion and he sees it become a snake and he runs out the door.

So how do you talk to people about religious things without the WORDS that best describe it.

jim


The term WOG has lots of racist connotations, as it was used mostly by the British when describing Pakistanis and Indians as opposed to Chinese who were eastern orientals.

This is the entry in Wikipedia:
"Wog is slang word in the idiom of British and Australian English employed as an ethnic or racial slur. Considered derogatory and offensive, in British English it is often applied in reference to dark-skinned or olive-skinned person from Africa or Asia. It can be applied to any darker-skinned people, but is used generally to refer to peoples of the East Indies and India, as well as immigrants or migrant workers from the Middle-East."

No wonder Scientologists have a bad reputation...
That word has always been a total no-no, as far as I'm concerned.
But open communication, as you said, Jim, can get to the root of all misunderstandings.

yeah I guess we are talking about LRH and his explorations into Asia. Now I can see how words from way in the past can be altered in the present.

LRH said it meant Western Oriental Gentleman

hahah

and now an entirely new definition altered from the British who must have heard the word and made their own interpretations

jim

jiminii
26th August 2013, 14:57
Use in British English[edit source | editbeta]

Wog in the UK is usually regarded as a racially offensive slang word referring to a dark-skinned or olive-skinned person from Africa or Asia. It can be applied to any darker-skinned people, but is used generally to refer to peoples of the East Indies and India, as well as immigrants from the Middle-East and Mediterranean. Most dictionaries refer to the word as derogatory and offensive.
The origin of the term may be unknown, but it was first noted by lexicographer F.C. Bowen, who recorded it in 1929 in his Sea slang: a dictionary of the old-timers’ expressions and epithets, where he defines wogs as "lower class Babu shipping clerks on the Indian coast."[6] Unsupported folk etymology has long explained it as being an acronym for "Westernised (or "Wily") Oriental Gentlemen"[7] used by the British in India and Pakistan, referring to the educated indigenous populace. Many dictionaries say "wog" derives from the golliwog, a blackface minstrel doll character from a children's book published in 1895, or from pollywog, a maritime term for someone who has not crossed the equator.

donk
26th August 2013, 15:08
Is it overtly or covertly hostile to post on a thread you’ve merely skimmed less than 5% of the posts (mostly brilliant, btw)?

I need to interject my 2 cents, as I have exhausted my patience for passive-aggression, which I am guessing what this thread about? As such, I treat others as I expect to be treated, with aggressive-aggression, whenever feelings of hostility are invoked within a discussion.

There’s two genuine causes of “hostility” in communication:

1. Transmitter’s will is being violated
2. Transmitter is projecting their fears/unresolved issues

I say “genuine” regarding intent, most cases the transmitter does not even recognize their hostility, let alone the source of it. A third case could be made for manufactured hostility, in the case of a troll planted in a discussion with the intention of dividing the group and obscuring the real information being discussed.

True emotional maturity means identifying and proper identification and acceptance of responsibility for it, and real growth means finding the ultimate source and dealing with it.

“Words are like weapons/They wound sometimes” –Cher

Honesty is the impenetrable force field against it…and I choose force field over shield, because true honesty will not just protect you by deflecting it, it will allow you to absorb it and change that energy into something useful, a lesson learned or even taught.

And honesty begins and ends within…as you can’t be true to others of if you’re lying to yourself. Ask yourself every time you sense it: where is this hostility coming from? Why does it affect me? And most importantly: how can I change it, turn this divisive energy into something loving, uniting?

Tempering your tone for the audience is a form of empathy, also a skill that requires much honesty. I have found that challenging people, pushing to the very edge, and occasionally slightly over, the threshhold of "hostility" (aka another's "truth", usually with strong emotions attached, that the receiver has strong feelings about) they can handle. That requires knowing the receiver's threshold, a tall order on a forum, even one as intimate and emotionally mature as this one.

ulli
26th August 2013, 15:14
yeah I guess we are talking about LRH and his explorations into Asia. Now I can see how words from way in the past can be altered in the present.

LRH said it meant Western Oriental Gentleman

hahah

and now an entirely new definition altered from the British who must have heard the word and made their own interpretations

jim

No Jim, this word was already used by the British in the 1920s, well before Hubbard started using it in the fifties.
British administrators living overseas, ruling their Empire far from home
and using the term in their gentlemen's clubs, when describing the natives, in a polite yet hostile manner.

It was actually a good example of covert hostility, as it originated from the term Gollywog.


I just googled the history of the term, and how it relates to Scientology and came across this interesting information:


It was presumably in England that Hubbard began to describe non-followers as “wogs.” In her expose Inside Scientology, Janet Reitman elaborates:

Non-Scientologists were called wogs, a term thrown around liberally among church staff: “wog ideas,” “wog justice,” and “wog science.” Hubbard began to use this offensive British slang term in 1953 to denote any person who was not a Scientologist, in his estimation a “run-of-the-mill, garden-variety humanoid.”

Hubbard is notoriously enigmatic, so it’s a mystery why he would have borrowed such an offensive epithet. It’s possible he wished to evoke the inherent “foreignness” of outside institutions (this was a time when he was on the wrong side of various government organizations).

Or it’s possible that “wog” was a reinvention by a man famous for his ability to redraw the definitions of common words. Hubbard used everyday terms like “technology,” “ethics” and “open-minded” in a rather different way than what we are accustomed to. Controversies aside, I find him one of the more fascinating of 20th-Century’s word coiners for that reason; he created his own language, assembled from pieces of (but strikingly different from) everyday English.

It’s also possible Hubbard misunderstood the word’s offensiveness. Something I find fascinating about cross-dialectal communication is that it is very easy to underestimate the potency of offensive words outside your own variety of English. I am more than aware of how derogatory “wog” is, yet on some fundamental level, I’m not sure I get it.

Likewise, I would use “wanker” in a blog post title with little thought, but I would agonize over the decision to use “nigger,” no matter how objective the context. Yet Britain’s Advertising Standards Authority actually found “wanker” the slightly more offensive of the two terms among the British public (credit to Lynne Murphy for that tidbit of info). So perhaps Hubbard’s use of “wog” was an innocent mistake?

Carmody
26th August 2013, 15:25
More people should study astrology. Being that is the origins of all human study and attempts at higher level rumination.

It illustrates the cadence of temporal conditions and flow of physical 3d manifestation.

That 99% of the universe (from a 3d unidirectional timeflow time/space viewpoint) is in a plasma condition (allows for FTL function, via longitudinal and transverse wave function as a PAIR) and rules and manifests all flow in this space.

That charged plasma, ionic flow and vibrational manifestation, and the connections in these vibrations is the origins of 3d particle function. Then, the whole thing dances in a macro flow system of dimensionally connected 'particles' (as seen in this dimension of 3d time/space).

If you begin to work on that, then you can begin to understand what all of this means.

Find the connective tissue.

Bill Ryan
26th August 2013, 15:35
-------

Yes, 'wog' is offensive to most people. Whatever the acronym stands for, it implies one is talking about the unenlightened (or underprivileged) from a superior know-it-all viewpoint.

Even if one is not, that's the impression given. It doesn't help! I don't think I've ever used the word in my life. I hope I haven't.

I too looked up the Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wog), which was fascinating. What rang true for me was that it originated from the term (in the British Raj) Working On Government Service, but when local people were those doing that work, it quickly (fueled by British colonial arrogance) became associated with a racial put-down.

I would appreciate it if this was not used on the forum.

@ Jim! I mean this with the best intentions. You HAVE HAVE HAVE to find effective ways of talking to the many highly intelligent people here, unused to the jargon that you are familiar with. Misunderstandings will inevitably proliferate.

:)

Christine
26th August 2013, 15:41
Thank you Carmody ~ much over looked IMHO. Syncronizing today... and though off topic I found this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMpWJpY-g0Q) posted on the Jesus, Mary and Archons thread.


More people should study astrology. Being that is the origins of all human study and attempts at higher level rumination.

It illustrates the cadence of temporal conditions and flow of physical 3d manifestation.

-----

Find the connective tissue.

Carmody
26th August 2013, 15:43
For example, that schizophrenic thinking and being, god complex, thoughts of omnipotence and Jesus complexes are ALL parts of, stages of... human enlightenment.

Also the idea that it is easier to manipulate the individual than it is to manipulate a universe FOR the individual, so one naturally comes to the conclusion that it is all a fake reality where one is being watched all the time. INEVITABLE... as a chain of logical conclusions. Unstoppably so.

Modern Freudian psychology makes all those enlightenment stages inaccessible (if it confronts them), and blocks off the conclusion of mental freedom. If, of course, the given seeker allows Freudian psychology to get near them while they are in this delicate stage of 'coming to' (awakening -in these stages).

along the way, the one on the journey will be misunderstood by those around them. always.

It is inevitable, as the person passing judgement on the one who seeks enlightenment... has a mind that is too far away from the given journeyer to understand where the journeyer is going or is at.

http://www.aeonmagazine.com/altered-states/how-reality-caught-up-with-paranoid-delusions/

Why am I writing this here? Part of the problem is judgement in and of statements and minds. connection that is distant and muted, lost, full of misinterpretations and also of a personal view. And so on.

I do try to find data and openings in enlightenment in what I read. but it no longer excites my monkey in ways that are negative in a thought controlling way that makes me unable to operate or think. as after all, it is my interpretation and cast reflection, nothing more. I no longer hypnotize myself, via my own filters and colors... through other people's writings.

Seek detachment.

turiya
26th August 2013, 17:41
For example, that schizophrenic thinking and being, god complex, thoughts of omnipotence and Jesus complexes are ALL parts of, stages of... human enlightenment.

Yes - it is necessary for one to get lost, with seemingly no direction home, before one understands that one has never left the house. One has to know the false before one can uncover the truth.



Also the idea that it is easier to manipulate the individual than it is to manipulate a universe FOR the individual, so one naturally comes to the conclusion that it is all a fake reality where one is being watched all the time. INEVITABLE... as a chain of logical conclusions. Unstoppably so.

The very idea to manipulate others is born in the seed of being manipulated by others previously in one's own life, more often than not, during the years of childhood. It is the basic 'Inferiority Complex' instilled by a society that is in pursuit of controlling its members. The inferiority complexed individual seeks to demonstrate, to himself & others, his/her superiority over others in order to compensate for the lack of 'self esteem' that has been stolen away from him/her during the years of innocence. In a way, it is a kind of an 'unconscious revenge' for what has been done to oneself previously. Waking up to the fact & the idea to manipulate others is seen as a wastage of one's own precious life energy & is counterproductive to one's own growth in consciousness.



Modern Freudian psychology makes all those enlightenment stages inaccessible (if it confronts them), and blocks off the conclusion of mental freedom. If, of course, the given seeker allows Freudian psychology to get near them while they are in this delicate stage of 'coming to' (awakening -in these stages).
Yes - Jungian psychology had a much better handle on this. i.e. "mental freedom", better to say "freedom from the mental", as mind itself is the prison (w/ attachments).



along the way, the one on the journey will be misunderstood by those around them. always.

i.e. ALL WORDS ARE LIES



It is inevitable, as the person passing judgement on the one who seeks enlightenment... has a mind that is too far away from the given journeyer to understand where the journeyer is going or is at.
In the end, there is no path, because, in effect, each step one takes upon any given 'path' will only take one further away from himself/herself. In other words there is NO PATH, or there is only One Path which is NO PATH at all. When one comes to understand - there is really nowhere to go & nothing to do... understanding is enough. But of course, initially one has to travel the path that leads nowhere in order to find this out for himself/herself.



Why am I writing this here? I suspect that it is part of your own learning process & love of sharing with others what you have thus realized for yourself.



I do try to find data and openings in enlightenment in what I read. but it no longer excites my monkey in ways that are negative in a thought controlling way that makes me unable to operate or think. as after all, it is my interpretation and cast reflection, nothing more. I no longer hypnotize myself, via my own filters and colors... through other people's writings.

As Krishnamurti has said - No one needs a teacher to show the way. Everyone has the teacher within themselves.


Seek detachment.
Easier said than done.

cheers - turiya :cool:

Limor Wolf
26th August 2013, 17:48
Seek detachment.

The quest to find balance between attachment and disattachment is a life long lesson to some of us. Thank you, Carmody.

mahalall
26th August 2013, 18:53
recently had a visionary encounter with an old school yogi-word had got about that he was enlightened, so pilgrims sought his presence. All types of lay people trudged up to his cave to seek his company. When they got there instead of seeing some blissful being-they saw a man in the an extreme tantric position with another person. The folk who had endured climbing the mountain ran down shocked and disgusted at the image they had seen.
Asked why he had presented himself in such a way (when he clearly had a siddhi of enlightenment through iridolgy) he said it kept them away-

Without equal pose to our reactions, one wonders has the depth of covert and overt manipulations of our sexual natures been imposed upon us to protect from sight that, that does not want to been seen

johnf
26th August 2013, 19:04
-------

Yes, 'wog' is offensive to most people. Whatever the acronym stands for, it implies one is talking about the unenlightened (or underprivileged) from a superior know-it-all viewpoint.

Even if one is not, that's the impression given. It doesn't help! I don't think I've ever used the word in my life. I hope I haven't.

I too looked up the Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wog), which was fascinating. What rang true for me was that it originated from the term (in the British Raj) Working On Government Service, but when local people were those doing that work, it quickly (fueled by British colonial arrogance) became associated with a racial put-down.

I would appreciate it if this was not used on the forum.

@ Jim! I mean this with the best intentions. You HAVE HAVE HAVE to find effective ways of talking to the many highly intelligent people here, unused to the jargon that you are familiar with. Misunderstandings will inevitably proliferate.

:)

The use of the term WOG in the COS is an example of a bigger phenomenon where an organization that is supposed to be all about communication, often went completely out of communication with society.
Doing things that tempt it's members to see themselves as superior to non members,along with the disconnection policies are things that led to it's degradation. From a fairly early point too.

This is what Scientologists learn as the definition of WOG(from the Technical Dictionary of Dianetics, and Scientology).

WOG, 1. worthy Oriental gentleman. This means a common ordinary run-ofthe-
mill garden-variety humanoid. (SH Spec 82, 6611C29) 2 . a w o g i s
somebody who isn’t even trying. (SH Spec 73, 6608C02)

I am grateful to see the alternative definitions from other cultural angles above from Bill and Ulli.
Before we get too judgemental though, I feel compelled to point out the similarities between this term, and the term I have seen a lot on this forum, sheeple.

That term doesn't really help us around here, and the term WOG, didn't help the Church of Scientology much either.
In a lot of cases, it is used to distance oneself from the negative emotions(actual pain and perhaps unconsciousness) that come up from seeing the actual state most people,(and mankind in general) are in.

If we judge, it feels better in the short term, but it also adds to the work we will eventually have to do when we are actually up to the task.

jf

Carmody
27th August 2013, 01:08
Judgement is a fools game; it locks one into a future based on projection of the self lies of one's own past.

araucaria
27th August 2013, 08:23
along the way, the one on the journey will be misunderstood by those around them. always.

i.e. ALL WORDS ARE LIES
Turiya, you are welcome to turn me off as often as you like by repeating a phrase that I have deconstructed in a negative light, but that doesn’t make it any more valid. I am frankly surprised that you should resort to a method infamously theorized by some highly unsavory politician back in the thirties. I am going to rise to the bait one last time.

I’m not sure if you have Carmody’s agreement on this point, but if you do, then I will just have to disagree with Carmody here. It would mean he has on his own admission been mendacious thousands of times on this forum. :) I prefer to think otherwise. But Carmody’s point is that you will always be misunderstood, which is not the same thing at all. And as I pointed out earlier, everything you write too would be a pack of lies, which even the best disinfo is not. (The ultimate disinfo is probably entirely accurate).

I do agree that language, like all our finite tools, is a treacherous one to use if truth is your aim. But to claim that it precludes any element of truth is so negatively self-defeating that it strikes me as trifling with the forum requirement “to contribute to the positive energy and attitude of the forum”. Such a positive energy and attitude has to mean that we are striving, against the odds, towards some kind of truth.

If you believe otherwise, then logically you ought to be over to Roman’s thread where he and Paula are replacing New Age truths with post-New Age truths. Logically, you need to be getting threads closed that say things like ‘A different reality can be spoken into existence by us, if we Care enough to learn the Truth, and then develop the Courage and the Will to defend it at all cost’, because according to you the only reality we can speak into existence is all lies.



New Age Correction #9 @ 6:41:37 (http://youtu.be/HqkzNDfVhZA?t=6h41m37s)



The truth of the current human condition SHOULD make you feel uncomfortable.

Seek the Truth, then... speak the Truth

It IS our shared responsibility at this time to help to awaken others by continuously speaking the truth unapologetically, even if we feel burdened by this task, and even if it makes ALL of those involved feel uncomfortable.




http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Recovered/correction9_zps9a0557a6.JPG

New Age Deceptions #10 @ 6:48:55 (http://youtu.be/HqkzNDfVhZA?t=6h48m55s)



Truth doesn’t need to be defended...

So never confront anyone on their bull****





http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Recovered/deception10_zpsd5f5271a.JPG

New Age Correction #10 @ 6:48:55 (http://youtu.be/HqkzNDfVhZA?t=6h48m55s)



WE are the vehicles by which Truth operates in the world.

This is a BULL**** FREE ZONE we do not apologize for any inconvenience.

WE are the vehicles by which Truth operates in the world.

The Universe is SPOKEN into existence: It IS true that Truth can NEVER by destroyed. But we CAN be destroyed, when we refuse to be her defender.

Never, Ever Give Up. Rage against the dying of the light.

A different reality can be spoken into existence by us, if we Care enough to learn the Truth, and then develop the Courage and the Will to defend it at all cost.




I know I am dwelling on a single sentence of yours; however, the highlighting of this phrase, through both typographical means (fourfold emphasis: bold, italics, capitals, blue) and rhetorical means (repetition) leads to its having an undue influence on the rest of your writing. I feel strongly enough about this to have spent some time on it. I apologize for taking you to task like this, and shall now desist, trusting that you will too.

WEAREONE
27th August 2013, 20:58
Observations.....
---Jiminii, your point of this thread was to teach and or educate. However for what reasons I do not know you chose to use an absolutely offensive topic as an example. This is perhaps the most offensive post I have seen on this forum and I have questions and comments.

Heres a quote from your opening post.
"You get around gays and their SPACE IS DIRTY, STICKY, and they push their feminism to extreme KNOWING that if bothers people. THEY KNOW it makes people feel weird and awkward and that is why they do it.

This is also why the GAYS OVER EXAGGERATE THEIR FEMINISM, TO PUT YOUR ATTENTION CONSTANTLY ON THIS BODY FUNCTION CALLED SEX,

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LOVE,

It is like a Vampire WHO can't get enough attention and so they want to trap your thoughts and energy on their weirdness

therefore, you can not trust GAYS they have perverted sex to use it for CONTROL and their hidden intention is to bring people down below them.

Since their survival is leaning towards death THEY DO NOT CARE WHO LIVES OR DIES"

-Wow, that is an amazingly offensive statement to make, THEY DO NOT CARE WHO LIVES OR DIES, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LOVE,-simply amazing to put all gay people into such a negative box. That box should be reserved for the most evil forces in this reality,not for gay people.

Later in the thread Fred Steeves commented on your post and alludes to this not being the first time you trashed gay people.


"" Posted by jiminii (here)
You get around gays and their SPACE IS DIRTY, STICKY,

Still trashing gay people I see Jim. I sincerely hope this thread stays up for all to see...

Talk about "Covert Hostility". Get a mirror brother...""

So it would seem that this is not the first time you posted an offensive statement about gay people, as you did not question or correct Fred Steeves comment.

Then later you apologize.

"there are a lot of variables ... I didn't think it when I picked gay ... or know what reaction I would get ...

I should have said promiscuity that would cover the covert part of both gay and heter ,.. would be more clear

so sorry about this

jim"

then later you continue to apologize

"I used gay as a reference because it is more easy to see the nature of covert hostile people if I show some of the characteristics that are so obvious.

but I am not trying to hit GAY as an ONLY. I just used some obvious characteristics of covert hostility using a covert hostile gay as an example.

there are covert hostile bankers and Heter too in the promiscuity band ...

so I am sorry if I offended anyone

jim"

So with all that heres some questions and concerns. First of all Jiminii, do you really believe what you wrote about Gay people?

I understand you said sorry but you never really said you don't believe what you said about gay people. It reminds me of certain talk show hosts that can say certain offensive statements and then later the say sorry but they do not really say that they don't believe what they said. Instead they are sorry for having the affect of offending people. Usually peer pressure, bad press, losing advertising dollars etc, forces the apology. And from what I can tell from your posts I get the impression you chose to use Gays as an example because you actually believe those things you wrote, I also think you may have used the topic to raise our tone level to in a sense light a fire.

I dont really understand how someone with obvious insight and understanding could not use better judgement in trying to educate us. I can not allow myself to excuse your ignorance by allowing you to use the.... oh, well I am new to this reality I am unfamiliar with norms and customs, my intentions are good but I'm literally from another time and place and communication with you is difficult..... Nope, for me that excuse does not work. It is lazy and shows little concern for those who may get hurt along the way. Have some respect for the fellow people you are communicating with. If your not used communicating with us then bounce your ideas off with friends or other trusted members before you post. I would imagine if you had PM people your opening post of this thread you would have gotten a lot of feed back in regards to it being unnecessarily offensive and that it actually distracts and takes away from a worthy discussion.

PLEASE try to put a little more thought and discernment into your communications with the forum and I imagine the rest of the world you interact with. We are not all knowledgeable of Scientology, some are but most will not understand what you are saying. Take into consideration what your trying to teach and educate and put some effort into trying to understand the best way to get the message across. And lastly, if you do in fact believe what you said about gay people you should probably keep that to your self as most people will find that thinking as hateful, offensive, narrow minded, ignorant, etc etc. Some may agree but keep in mind that the good in your message will not be heard very well. I imagine quite a lot of members and guest didn't get past your first post as it was so horribly offensive and moved on to another thread and missed the valuable information you did share.

Ernie Nemeth
27th August 2013, 21:17
words are placeholders (signs, sigils, approximations) of some observed truth, being twice removed from reality

so they may not be lies but being mere descriptors of perception, they are far from the truth

strung together in infinite subsets, they run the gamut of our experiences

carefully positioned they can cast a shadow of the truth upon the mind of the listener

and that shadow can illuminate the truth in that mind

course both of you guys know all that, being artful masters yourselves

araucaria
28th August 2013, 09:45
words are placeholders (signs, sigils, approximations) of some observed truth, being twice removed from reality

so they may not be lies but being mere descriptors of perception, they are far from the truth

strung together in infinite subsets, they run the gamut of our experiences

carefully positioned they can cast a shadow of the truth upon the mind of the listener

and that shadow can illuminate the truth in that mind

course both of you guys know all that, being artful masters yourselves
Words may be removed from the reality they “refer to”. Yet words are in numerous ways a reality in their own right. Their presence is a reality: something said that proverbially cannot be unsaid. Their absence is also a reality: something left unsaid, a silence that proverbially means consent, or a myriad other things.

As “mere descriptors of perception”, words may well be “far from the truth”. However, they can be other things than that. They may be performative, and the word becomes a deed – e.g. anything beginning with “I hereby” signifies that the saying is the doing. This is why a document is called a deed. Having no external reference, such statements are neither true nor false, they just are. They are many kinds of performative speech acts. The Avalon debate over talking less and acting more overlooks this fact that it is not always a choice between doing or saying.

Another function, known to linguisticians as “phatic communion”, serves the purpose of social bonding, above, beyond, and occasionally in contradiction to the actual content of any utterance. The extreme (imaginary) example of this is the socialite who tells his smiling company that he has just shot his granny and buried her in the garden, and they respond with the usual platitudes. Whether such statements are true or false is ultimately immaterial, they are either socially effective or not (hence a modicum of honesty usually helps, or alternatively a dose of humor).

Thirdly (but not last), while “mere descriptors of perception” only denote, words also connote. In other words, not only do they point to some outside reality, they exist notably as a state of mind, an emotional state. Such connotations will be neither true nor false, they will be sincere or insincere depending on whether or not they correspond to a person’s actual state of mind. When we have information to impart, we try to adopt an emotionally neutral state of mind. This information, to adopt a neutral word therefore, will be partly “incorrect”. To call such information “lies” is to interpret the accompanying emotional state as being insincere. Hence the formula “All words are lies” is inexact, because it implies that “All speakers are liars” and presupposes the total absence of honest intent.

On a forum that claims if nothing else to be an exercise in honesty, it would be more appropriate and more accurate to say that “All words are inadequate descriptors of perception”… and possibly deceptive indicators of state of mind, i.e. examples of covert hostility. I am not nitpicking: this is of the utmost importance, as language is almost all we have here.

Fred Steeves
28th August 2013, 10:17
On a forum that claims if nothing else to be an exercise in honesty, it would be more appropriate and more accurate to say that “All words are inadequate descriptors of perception”…

I've used the term "all words are lies" myself araucaria, but this is a *much* more accurate description. Thank you for that, because words *do* mean things. And they're all we've got to communicate with on a forum, minus the subtle yet powerful energy behind them.

Ultima Thule
28th August 2013, 11:23
I quote myself:
There would be less trouble if we didn´t mistake a (part of the) truth for THE whole truth.
Words are the carrier of this mistake.

UT

jiminii
28th August 2013, 11:59
I know we already went through this. It is just I am teaching High School Students and this is the first time I have ever seen obvious Lady Boys in all their dramatizations where the rest of the students don't do this. And they are allowed to do it. Why? I never seen this in the 50's to the 60's in any school I went to.

so we have allowed them their rights to the point where they can dramatize it in any school.

So that just really throws me off. All the rest of the students are strictly taught to be conservative. But these are allowed to be as Nutty as they choose.

I just don't get it

jim

Prodigal Son
28th August 2013, 12:33
All this is all soooo wrong, misunderstood, misapplied, distorted, (and offensive) and on soooo many levels. Sorry.

I'll confront just the first issue, a real clanger:


70 percent or more do not have SPIRITS CONNECTED TO THEM so these 70 percent are basically ROBOTS

100% of human beings have spirits in them. Where there is life, there is spirit. And vice versa. Plain and simple! It is impossible for a human being to function without a soul. There would also be no purpose, as a human being is in its one and only purpose a vehicle, a 3-dimensional physical construct for a soul to experience through.

But I don't want to go overboard here. Respect to you jimini for your input and undoubted wisdom in many areas, but some of the points you bring up here are just ghastly ghastly ghastly. I can say no more.

Oh, except one other thing, regarding what more and more are beginning to believe.. this is NOT a prison planet, unless you choose to go to prison. This is the planet of FREE CHOICE, expressed through duality. No one has to come here. We that are here now have chosen to come here for the variety and richness of experience that is offers. The only thing that would 'trap' us here would be a desire to accelerate our progression, and an inherent 'need' on a higher level that would bring us back to complete (and perfect) any unfinished business we have (karma).

There is a difference between soul and spirit. Animals have souls, and humans who have a spiritual connection have spirit, but there are simply way too many cardboard cutouts on this planet who have no empathy or compassion and exist simply to take from others and do whatever is necessary to "get over". Their "soul" is a group reptilian soul that is programmed for nothing but survival. They have had no previous incarnations and in all likelihood will not have any more. They will be dissolved back into the group consciousness that they came from.

http://montalk.net/matrix/157

There is no one on this forum that this would apply to, unless they are trolls.

Of course there are people who have spirit that is dormant from programming, but deep down inside they do have human emotions. The controllers of this planet do not, they don't give a flying f**k about anything "human". To them, it is all about the bottom line.

Personally I think jiminii is pretty close with his 70% figure, particularly in the western world, where men are 70 percent narcissists. I think its somewhere between 50 and 70%... and.... from the perspective I am coming from here, this has nothing to do with gays. I don't agree with jim's OP about gays in general... they are here working on what they need to work on for soul growth and evolution just like the rest of us and are not to be judged. We have all been gay, straight, male, female, barbarians and martyrs. We are all in the process of becoming God.

CD7
28th August 2013, 12:37
I quote myself:
There would be less trouble if we didn´t mistake a (part of the) truth for THE whole truth.
Words are the carrier of this mistake.

UT

Perception too.....everyone's viewing from their perspective and experience so we ALL have pieces of truth....when these pieces are combined and observed we then have a better understanding of the whole in ALL its variant pieces

However ignorance comes in when people think tht their "piece" perspective is the only one...they fight with all the other perspectives and visa versa. Not taking into consideration the fractured abyss we all hale from...It takes ALL fractured slivers to reveal the whole kit and kaboodle

learninglight
28th August 2013, 12:53
I know we already went through this. It is just I am teaching High School Students and this is the first time I have ever seen obvious Lady Boys in all their dramatizations where the rest of the students don't do this. And they are allowed to do it. Why? I never seen this in the 50's to the 60's in any school I went to.

so we have allowed them their rights to the point where they can dramatize it in any school.

So that just really throws me off. All the rest of the students are strictly taught to be conservative. But these are allowed to be as Nutty as they choose.

I just don't get it

jim

And i just don't get why you don't think about what you write before you post!!

Quote : 'so we have allowed them their rights to the point where they can dramatize it in any school.'

Gob smacked to read this here; maybe i'm being Covertly Hostile or maybe i just feel it in my gut to speak out when i see wrong

sharon

ulli
28th August 2013, 13:32
Jim, the weird lessons of this world had me perplexed, too. I see where you are coming from.
Living far away from western civilization has one questioning things that political correctness-trained people would never dare to question...
as tolerance is the number one attitude of today.
Actually what was once tolerance has given way to permissiveness, and many of the elderly in this super catholic country of Costa Rica are really suffering at the decline of morality they are witnessing, and the most organized faction of this group is the gay sector, which receives daily news coverage on TV, with some shocking images accompanying those reports.

One day I found a file online...some woman who was having an affair with an elite insider, a member of the MJ12 group, and she had written down their pillow talk, and published it anonymously online. For a short while those files were available on a variety of alternative websites, and then they disappeared, around 2000, and I never found them again.

So she had written, that ETs had contacted the US government and military and immediately this knowledge was hidden, and secret agencies were formed, including the CIA, and even more hidden sub-agencies, so as not to leak out this knowledge.
And these ETs had told the leaders that humanity was ready for the discovery of extra terrestrial life, of not being alone in the universe, and that it would take several generations to acclimatize the population to this knowledge, so as not to have too much of a culture clash between the visitors from outer space and the people of earth.
And that all species in the universe had to go through this collective awakening at some point, usually when they discover nuclear power, before they were given the ability to travel through hyper space.

Anyway, the program that was recommended would entail a period of permissiveness...where a society would be created in which there was only one law...anything goes. The normal justice system would begin to fail people, while the guilty would get protection and the innocent would become victimized. All was designed to test the population for their inner reserves.

That way people would then be free to choose their path, either into self and narcissism, or decide on social integration, where they show an interest in their communities, or their race, or their nationality, or better still, human society as a whole, and a desire to serve that whole body of humanity and try to blend in.

In other words, to subjugate their personal needs. With that would come the knowledge that an individual life is not worth living unless the whole of society is healthy. So then there was going to be a date, where a massive clamp-down would put an end to the permissive period, when the desirables would be segragated, and the undesirables would be rounded up and destroyed. At that point the police would be given all powers...a car thief would not be dragged before a judge but taken striaght to prison, for example.
Unlike the Nazi era in Germany in this society people from non-white races would not be brushed aside.
All races would be welcome. But still it would be a fascist super-state, world wide.
This information fitted in with the prophecies I had read in the Bahai writings which was the religion I was practising at the time, and so it really struck a cord, as it fulfilled those prophecies.
The non-welcome crowd would be free-loaders, people who have nothing to offer to the whole, also hostile militia, criminals, and several other groups, but I can't remember exactly which they were.
I don't even remember whether gay people were mentioned in this list.
Anyway, the surveillance thing was meant to serve this selection purpose. So already 15 years ago I had read about a supercomputer in DC, that was looking for certain keywords in people's emails and singling out those who used those keywords on a regular basis.
Part of those files already dealt with the FEMA camps, which had been built to receive the unwanted.
That was already 15 years ago, imagine.

When you give human beings a lot of freedom to act whichever way they want, they can then learn for themselves about the consequences of their actions, and most will eventually discover what type of life style works best for them.

Of course, if you are dealing with high school students who are just beginning their self discovery, and are therefore experimenting with all sorts of personas, you are bound to see some extreme behavior patterns.

jiminii
28th August 2013, 14:16
All this is all soooo wrong, misunderstood, misapplied, distorted, (and offensive) and on soooo many levels. Sorry.

I'll confront just the first issue, a real clanger:


70 percent or more do not have SPIRITS CONNECTED TO THEM so these 70 percent are basically ROBOTS

100% of human beings have spirits in them. Where there is life, there is spirit. And vice versa. Plain and simple! It is impossible for a human being to function without a soul. There would also be no purpose, as a human being is in its one and only purpose a vehicle, a 3-dimensional physical construct for a soul to experience through.

But I don't want to go overboard here. Respect to you jimini for your input and undoubted wisdom in many areas, but some of the points you bring up here are just ghastly ghastly ghastly. I can say no more.

Oh, except one other thing, regarding what more and more are beginning to believe.. this is NOT a prison planet, unless you choose to go to prison. This is the planet of FREE CHOICE, expressed through duality. No one has to come here. We that are here now have chosen to come here for the variety and richness of experience that is offers. The only thing that would 'trap' us here would be a desire to accelerate our progression, and an inherent 'need' on a higher level that would bring us back to complete (and perfect) any unfinished business we have (karma).

There is a difference between soul and spirit. Animals have souls, and humans who have a spiritual connection have spirit, but there are simply way too many cardboard cutouts on this planet who have no empathy or compassion and exist simply to take from others and do whatever is necessary to "get over". Their "soul" is a group reptilian soul that is programmed for nothing but survival. They have had no previous incarnations and in all likelihood will not have any more. They will be dissolved back into the group consciousness that they came from.

http://montalk.net/matrix/157

There is no one on this forum that this would apply to, unless they are trolls.

Of course there are people who have spirit that is dormant from programming, but deep down inside they do have human emotions. The controllers of this planet do not, they don't give a flying f**k about anything "human". To them, it is all about the bottom line.

Personally I think jiminii is pretty close with his 70% figure, particularly in the western world, where men are 70 percent narcissists. I think its somewhere between 50 and 70%... and.... from the perspective I am coming from here, this has nothing to do with gays. I don't agree with jim's OP about gays in general... they are here working on what they need to work on for soul growth and evolution just like the rest of us and are not to be judged. We have all been gay, straight, male, female, barbarians and martyrs. We are all in the process of becoming God.

Ok let me try to be more clear about this. When you audit, (take people back into their past to see what is there), millions of people around the world you will find the lifetimes cross over. He was born this year and died this year and born this year and died this year. Now you find there is 2 different entities there because the deaths and births don't match up and would be impossible. One of these entities went the genetic line like darwins theory from one cells on up. but the other entity didn't go that path. Most of the entities coming to this planet has been coming in the last 500 years from the last war they had up there in the stars. the oldest spirit we might find is maybe 13000 years but that is very rare. so you have to separate what is the spirit and what does it do and what is the GE Genetic entity and what does it do. Well they both have the same automatic picture recording systems. 25 a second 52 or more perceptions like humidity, heat, and etc.

So you will find there a a large percentage of entities that are only from the genetic line. You can take this line back to the original creation of this entity. But we have never found the beginning or creation of a spirit being. So this Genetic entity is a creation just like a rock or water or earth or any other creation. Any creation can be totally destroyed by perfect duplication. Find the moment of it's creation the Time the exact mass the exact energy and space and it will simply disappear, completely and it is GONE.
if you you want it back you have to recreate it but it won't be the same entity or rock or water or ground because it is not created in the same time.

so these genetic entities is like a ghost that is more or less a very well designed computer. It records 25 pictures a second just like the spirit does but the spirit doesn't need to create pictures to survive. The spirit being can just KNOW. A Genetic Entity would not be able to survive if it could not create enough memory to operate this body as fast as it can. Oh these robots look very real and very authentic but they are a bit robotic. They go to the same markets, the same restaurants, they buy the same clothes and watch the same tv shows. They are incapable of originating NEW THOUGHT. Only the spirit can Originate NEW THOUGHT.

so where do the spirits come from. They come from the stars. some 108 or more systems. the Genetic entities go the path of starting from the one cell animal and working up until it can operate a human body, if that was it's genetic line.

so if you can just breed these bodies you can create a lot of ghosts that inhabit a lot of bodies. BUT they are limited in this way. How many spirit beings have been dumped on the planet. And if this was not a prison planet than why are we tricked into some kind of machine that will knock us out and then they freeze us in something and dump us in the ocean. and not only that, they have each entities mind which IS MADE OF MATTER ENERGY SPACE AND TIME connected by some kind of machine that can somehow connect to someones mind and when he dies it triggers this machine to setup a lot of things to trick this spirit being into the implant station again and knock him out again and flood this mind with miss dated garbage, like why do they go to the expense of doing this. something like 49 days or more of implanting and rearranging your memories so you are totally convinced you are nothing but a weak powerless human body.

we did have guards on mars and etc but they left ... and so nothing has been here stopping us from advancing in science.

this is if you took a million people back in the past you will not get the same history they teach you in history books.

so since the population increases at a fantastic rate it is not a surprise to see most of the bodies on this planet only have a ghost with no spirit being in it.
basically a servant someone that can copy others.

jim

Star Mariner
28th August 2013, 14:23
All this is all soooo wrong, misunderstood, misapplied, distorted, (and offensive) and on soooo many levels. Sorry.

I'll confront just the first issue, a real clanger:


70 percent or more do not have SPIRITS CONNECTED TO THEM so these 70 percent are basically ROBOTS

100% of human beings have spirits in them. Where there is life, there is spirit. And vice versa. Plain and simple! It is impossible for a human being to function without a soul. There would also be no purpose, as a human being is in its one and only purpose a vehicle, a 3-dimensional physical construct for a soul to experience through.

But I don't want to go overboard here. Respect to you jimini for your input and undoubted wisdom in many areas, but some of the points you bring up here are just ghastly ghastly ghastly. I can say no more.

Oh, except one other thing, regarding what more and more are beginning to believe.. this is NOT a prison planet, unless you choose to go to prison. This is the planet of FREE CHOICE, expressed through duality. No one has to come here. We that are here now have chosen to come here for the variety and richness of experience that is offers. The only thing that would 'trap' us here would be a desire to accelerate our progression, and an inherent 'need' on a higher level that would bring us back to complete (and perfect) any unfinished business we have (karma).

There is a difference between soul and spirit. Animals have souls, and humans who have a spiritual connection have spirit, but there are simply way too many cardboard cutouts on this planet who have no empathy or compassion and exist simply to take from others and do whatever is necessary to "get over". Their "soul" is a group reptilian soul that is programmed for nothing but survival. They have had no previous incarnations and in all likelihood will not have any more. They will be dissolved back into the group consciousness that they came from.

http://montalk.net/matrix/157

There is no one on this forum that this would apply to, unless they are trolls.

Of course there are people who have spirit that is dormant from programming, but deep down inside they do have human emotions. The controllers of this planet do not, they don't give a flying f**k about anything "human". To them, it is all about the bottom line.

Personally I think jiminii is pretty close with his 70% figure, particularly in the western world, where men are 70 percent narcissists. I think its somewhere between 50 and 70%... and.... from the perspective I am coming from here, this has nothing to do with gays. I don't agree with jim's OP about gays in general... they are here working on what they need to work on for soul growth and evolution just like the rest of us and are not to be judged. We have all been gay, straight, male, female, barbarians and martyrs. We are all in the process of becoming God.

I think you might be right with some of that. But this 'reptilian group soul' thing, 70% .. I just can't see it. My belief and understanding at this point with regards to these 'cardboard cutouts' as you say... so many undeveloped souls with chaotic energy often exhibiting insensitivity, heartlessness, their thought being highly centred in the lower energies of control and domination and gratification... is because there are a great many arriving souls in these times (perhaps not 70%) that are simply new souls that have never incarnated before. They have no experience in the physical, or in this kind of reality. And they have no higher sense, compassion or discipline (as yet) to govern or override the physical impulses.

Every new human baby conceived requires a soul to occupy it. Some are coming direct from a kind of spiritual nursery, where their spiritual evolution is just beginning. These new souls have been provided these incarnation opportunities because of the population explosion over the last few decades. And just because they are new, does not mean they are reptilian, or 'evil', it just means that spiritually they are just children. And there are a few coming from beyond the earth realms entirely, from higher dimensions/vibrations, back into physicality where they don't need to be, but choose to be in order to serve, and help, in this critical time.

Then you'll have the bad guys, the service-to-self beings, that jim originally referred to, and you touched on as well. A lot of these I think are attached to power structures, ie military/industrial/financial - the strings of power, influential bloodlines and royal families. I do not think they make up the majority of the population. In fact, the minority by a long way. But who knows what the exact facts and figures are...

That's how I see it anyway. But I also see a time when the earth, and her occupants, will be moving into a new phase or vibration of being, a higher expression, where these low-vibrating beings cannot exist.

Delight
28th August 2013, 14:28
I know we already went through this. It is just I am teaching High School Students and this is the first time I have ever seen obvious Lady Boys in all their dramatizations where the rest of the students don't do this. And they are allowed to do it. Why? I never seen this in the 50's to the 60's in any school I went to.

so we have allowed them their rights to the point where they can dramatize it in any school.

So that just really throws me off. All the rest of the students are strictly taught to be conservative. But these are allowed to be as Nutty as they choose.

I just don't get it

jim

What I hear in this is that the young men who "were given rights" are emoting and acting in "lady" behaviors that bother you and are not "conservative". These are words. You back you opinions up with unverifiable "specialness". The only way I can discover your frequency and vibration is by your overt behavior...writing a thread that targets people (including "sympathy people like nurses) as examples of "low tone". The feeling I feel from these words is that these behaviors bother YOU. I infer that you would feel better if these undesirable behaviors could be "suppressed". It bothers YOU and you are projecting "Covert hostility".

This is very important as I think the old paradigm is absolutely in shreds. The old paradigm had authority that one FOLLOWS. Authority can get its way by various modes to gain more followers. It can persuade, it can legislate, it can punish and it can even murder. The thing about it is that Authority insinuates itself deeply and followers come along in seeming reasonable fashion.

We are in a transition which may well be the revolution...where we all have to become our own authority. Control is only possible when the controled allow it. You are feeling your own resistance to the fall off of the old paradigm. Are you willing to give up authority?

jiminii
28th August 2013, 14:48
you know if I just give nurse as an example then everyone will interpret that I am singling out nurses. Each person is in his own tone level. what places him in this tone level.
the amount of free theta or predictable thought to the amount of enturbulated or unpredictable thought.

You have chains of these. You have things that continue to hit you, again and again and again. But in this lifetime you might only have a few of these turned on. In the next lifetime you might have an entirely different set of chains of painful incidents turned on.

in this lifetime you might be high toned because you don't have too much pain turned on from too many things hitting you in your life.

in the next lifetime you might have some very painful chains of incidents that have you very low on the tone scale.

you can't say or predict from lifetime to lifetime what set of chains of incidents and how much pain will be turned on to place you in one of these tone levels.

so Nurses. You can just go into a hospital and look and you can spot where you think they are on the tone scale. I am sure they are all over the tone scale everyday from all the suffering they see.

but they will have a tone that they are mostly stuck in and that is the daily tone of this person.

so how do you handle it?

you take a person back and perfectly duplicate the incidents and the MATTER ENERGY SPACE AND TIME of these incidents vanish. The meter measures resistance of the body. It measures some kind of MASS, (matter energy space and time), having to do with your thoughts or the thoughts that are in the memory that is MADE OF some kind of physical universe matter energy space and time (that is what the physical universe is made up of Matter energy space and time and if you duplicate its exact mass and exact space it was created in and its exact time it was created in it will disappear.

you can ask this question in the next lifetime and it will not read on the meter, (we have found old scientologist reborn and became scientologists again and we found that the typical questions you would ask anyone that would read on a meter simply wasn't there and we found they had already erased it from their immediate past lifetime from being audited in their last lifetime in the 1950s

so this is provable.

jim

northstar
28th August 2013, 15:08
I know we already went through this. It is just I am teaching High School Students and this is the first time I have ever seen obvious Lady Boys in all their dramatizations where the rest of the students don't do this. And they are allowed to do it. Why? I never seen this in the 50's to the 60's in any school I went to.

so we have allowed them their rights to the point where they can dramatize it in any school.

So that just really throws me off. All the rest of the students are strictly taught to be conservative. But these are allowed to be as Nutty as they choose.

I just don't get it

jim

Jim what you just described are uncomfortable feelings towards gay people. Those feelings really have nothing to do with flamboyant gays Jim, but they have a lot to do with you.

I really, really don't want to take potshots at you. I really don't want to do that, so I say this in a spirit of teaching and education, so that you might learn something important and also so that people reading this thread who hold homophobic feelings within themselves might have the opportunity to learn something.

When we have unconscious "stuff" inside us which we deny, suppress, ignore, or do not attend to properly, it festers. We can put on high spiritual airs and say any number of things about ourselves, but if we do not do the inner work, that ugly stuff inevitably sneaks out and bites us in the ass.

The funny/odd thing about suppressed shadow is that it is almost always utterly invisible to the person who is carrying it, but often all too obvious to the people around you. This means us, Jim, your friends here on Avalon. We have been trying to teach you something about homophobia, about unwarranted attacks on groups of people.

I am actually glad you brought this up here in a personal way. In this post you are not making unwarranted attacks on GLBT people in general, you are sharing your own personal experience and feelings honestly. That is an improvement over your first post.

With regards to your personal feelings of discomfort around flamboyant gays, I suggest that you look within and do the hard and uncomfortable work of healing your own shadow wounds within. You will know you have been successful when you can be around those types of people and feel no triggering at all and simply see that person as another soul with empathy and love.

northstar
28th August 2013, 15:22
I think you might be right with some of that. But this 'reptilian group soul' thing, 70% .. I just can't see it. My belief and understanding at this point with regards to these 'cardboard cutouts' as you say... so many undeveloped souls with chaotic energy often exhibiting insensitivity, heartlessness, their thought being highly centred in the lower energies of control and domination and gratification... is because there are a great many arriving souls in these times (perhaps not 70%) that are simply new souls that have never incarnated before. They have no experience in the physical, or in this kind of reality. And they have no higher sense, compassion or discipline (as yet) to govern or override the physical impulses.

Every new human baby conceived requires a soul to occupy it. Some are coming direct from a kind of spiritual nursery, where their spiritual evolution is just beginning. These new souls have been provided these incarnation opportunities because of the population explosion over the last few decades. And just because they are new, does not mean they are reptilian, or 'evil', it just means that spiritually they are just children. And there are a few coming from beyond the earth realms entirely, from higher dimensions/vibrations, back into physicality where they don't need to be, but choose to be in order to serve, and help, in this critical time.

Then you'll have the bad guys, the service-to-self beings, that jim originally referred to, and you touched on as well. A lot of these I think are attached to power structures, ie military/industrial/financial - the strings of power, influential bloodlines and royal families. I do not think they make up the majority of the population. In fact, the minority by a long way. But who knows what the exact facts and figures are...

That's how I see it anyway. But I also see a time when the earth, and her occupants, will be moving into a new phase or vibration of being, a higher expression, where these low-vibrating beings cannot exist.


What I like in your post Star Mariner is that you keep the door open for the redemptive and miraculous power of grace.
The thought that entire groups of people could be labelled as "without soul" and then bear the subsequent very real stigma and social consequences of that label is a chilling step toward tyranny and something I want no part of.

But at the same time, there are evil ones walking among us. We know that by their actions.

It is a tangled and tough problem for sure but I appreciate how you keep a sense of heart in how you talk about this problem.

jiminii
28th August 2013, 15:22
Well let's go lower to propitiation. My father was in propitiation to his family. He worked his beans off from 4am to late at night to make the money but he was always promising things he would never do. He would say next time he goes on a trip he will take me. I got in such a frantic compulsive desire, (now there see I can't find the right words). I mean I did everything I could possibly do to get him to KEEP ONE OF HIS PROMISES. It almost drove me nuts. but in the end after he built this lumber empire he could not get anyone in his family willing to take over his business. If he would have asked me why I would have said, "you never treated me like a regular employee and you promises it was all going to be mine but you always paid me 25 cents an hour until I practically screamed and then you only raised me to 50 cents an hour. I would NEVER TAKE YOUR BUSINESS because you will ALWAYS TAKE ALL THE PROFIT AND GIVE US THE LOWEST YOU COULD POSSIBLY GIVE.

we didn't have to say it. We didn't want it. so I learn how to fix the navy computer systems so I could go make my own money.

so this is an example of the tone scale. I looked at covert hostility as a bad tone by what LRH said, but to me Propitiation is MUCH WORSE THAN THAT.

Propitiation is "please don't leave me please don't hurt me"

someone in propitiation will just keep putting the cheeze out in front of his wife and pull it away, (thinking if he gave it all to her she would probably leave him).
until they get so mad he then gives them a nibble and goes back to his same routine.

this gives you a different example of the tone scale using a different tone.

by knowing the tone scale you will be able to find your people and know who you can trust.

jim

Delight
28th August 2013, 15:23
so this is provable.

jim

dear Jim,
I am sure you believe and agree to what you are stating. I am positive that you feel a mission to share. I am happy that you have your priorities, expectations, preferences and all that make your life.
There is too much baggage in the belief system that you are using for me. It is full of unwritten clauses of contracts that were revealed in bits and pieces to me through your words, retractions. Many are riffing off the same themes...that there is a problem and one or another will be happy to solve the problem.

Because people (like nurses) believe they MUST stay in systems that deeply disturb the well being THEY STAY. (and I know PLENTY of people disturbed in trauma systems like medical care). This whole schematic that we are going to be abused necessarily and that we can't do anything without auditing, soul retrieval, catholic priests, the right school, the right food, the right president, ETC>ETC>>>>>the CURE from the AUTHORITY is what feels dirty and sticky to me.

The point I am taking on is that there is a line in theb sand. the best use of Bad Systems(BS) is learn to say no. I say no thank you to any aspect of what you have been taught is true. Also, with appreciation to you for being one to remind me even deeper...... I am the source of my contracts and can tear them up on every level of reality. Yes, I can!

Calamus
28th August 2013, 15:29
..........

Star Mariner
28th August 2013, 15:53
You said something earlier jim about concentrating on body parts, and putting one's "... ATTENTION CONSTANTLY ON THIS BODY FUNCTION CALLED SEX." I think this is what you are doing here jim. You're seeing gay people as bodies, not spirits. Instead see the spirit within, a female energy in many respects merely operating through a male body.

There would be no discrimination or phobia of anyone in the world, if people saw just souls, spirits, the energies within, rather than the physical body that is anchoring it to the earth-experience. This body is not them, it is just a temporary shell to clad spirit, which is the very same spiritual stuff of which you are made - the stuff of God.

If one chooses to discriminate, or just feel badly/disapprovingly of a group of people based on type/creed/religion/gender or whatever, it only means that person has not yet learned the very important lesson of ONEness. If one does not understand the lesson of ONEness, then believe me, one will reincarnate next time as an OTHERness, possibly that very same OTHERness that one had discriminated against before. And this is to learn that, in fact, OTHERness is an illusion, it doesn't exist. We are all ONE.

I'm not saying to you jim that you have failed to grasp this in your teachings and learnings. I'm sure you understand ONEness. So it's quite all right if you feel 'uncomfortable' around gay people or 'lady boys' - as long as you know, however, that what they are and who they are is quite normal and all right. They are just expressing their energy in a different way to you, and there is a clash there with your own energy. Absorb the energy they are putting off and accept it, rather than resist and refuse it, otherwise your discomfort and discontent will continue, and that will not be healthy, and will only lead to further emotional/spiritual imbalances and thought-distortions.

jiminii
28th August 2013, 15:54
so this is provable.

jim

dear Jim,
I am sure you believe and agree to what you are stating. I am positive that you feel a mission to share. I am happy that you have your priorities, expectations, preferences and all that make your life.
There is too much baggage in the belief system that you are using for me. It is full of unwritten clauses of contracts that were revealed in bits and pieces to me through your words, retractions. Many are riffing off the same themes...that there is a problem and one or another will be happy to solve the problem.

Because people (like nurses) believe they MUST stay in systems that deeply disturb the well being THEY STAY. (and I know PLENTY of people disturbed in trauma systems like medical care). This whole schematic that we are going to be abused necessarily and that we can't do anything without auditing, soul retrieval, catholic priests, the right school, the right food, the right president, ETC>ETC>>>>>the CURE from the AUTHORITY is what feels dirty and sticky to me.

The point I am taking on is that there is a line in theb sand. the best use of Bad Systems(BS) is learn to say no. I say no thank you to any aspect of what you have been taught is true. Also, with appreciation to you for being one to remind me even deeper...... I am the source of my contracts and can tear them up on every level of reality. Yes, I can!

I am not trying to single out anyone or any group. I am just showing that i went into this philosophy and looked at the data and went out and saw how it worked in the society. I am just popping up things out of my head from what I saw. I didn't mean to hurt anyone or label them anything.

only you know yourself truely and only you from your own observation can come up with your own truth. In my situation I really don't have any buttons. So if I picked gay or heter or mexican or french or any other, I only did it to show something that looks obvious to me.

this might not be true for someone else. each person has his own truth. I had SOOOOOOO many buttons pushed of sooooooooooooo many realities and I knew that this is what we have to deal with. This is what is on the planet. So I accept all of it.

I have to accept all of it if I want to make it better. So if I were not in this body and i was in the stars looking down at it and i didn't have all this emotion this body can feel, I could come up with some better ways of healing.

I am separate from this body. I am in serenity most of the time and a lot of things people say makes me laugh. I am not laughing at them I am laughing with them because I can see or have seen it before. someone thought I was young because of the way I talk. I am 68. but I am still this 7 year old kid who used to ride the horse under the apple trees scaring everyone in the neighborhood thinking I was going to get killed by those branches on the apple trees.

I had a trick. There was a hole just over the branch and as there was a ditch that went around the tree the horse had to stretch each time to cross this ditch and the branch would brush the top of his back. I could grab on the branch while he was stretching and go over it and back on to his back as I went under the apple tree.

that is me. all these emotions that pop up from what I say are not me, they are the emotions and pictures coming from the GE that grew this body I am in. I have no pictures and emotions myself but I can feel those coming from this body. I took some things that looked obvious to me and used it not thinking about other people having buttons. I am not trying to make any group wrong or any person wrong. I am just making examples so you can get an idea of this tone scale.

then I realized I didn't write it right just like Bill told me. I should be more careful of how I put my thoughts on paper. I shouldn't say all gay. I should say here is an example of a covert hostile gay, (one person not all). and a covert hostile heterosexual, and a nurse who is in sympathy.

so getting on a forum is a bit rough because I am being told I am things I am not because I didn't word my sentences more correctly.

I was talking with gaps between the lines like I talk to people in real life. Now I got two groups of people here.

One is asking me to write in gaps because they want to see the real feeling of me and they understand what I say
and another says I write terrible because of the gaps I put in my writing.

means I will have to make 2 lines of thought. One has to be the original me in gaps and the other is the more organized me that writes continuous lines with no gaps and words I can't find to say what I want to say.

so I think I will just mix them up and let you figure it out yourself.

jim

(you know this is funny ... I am laughing)

ulli
28th August 2013, 15:57
Well let's go lower to propitiation. My father was in propitiation to his family. He worked his beans off from 4am to late at night to make the money but he was always promising things he would never do. He would say next time he goes on a trip he will take me. I got in such a frantic compulsive desire, (now there see I can't find the right words). I mean I did everything I could possibly do to get him to KEEP ONE OF HIS PROMISES. It almost drove me nuts. but in the end after he built this lumber empire he could not get anyone in his family willing to take over his business. If he would have asked me why I would have said, "you never treated me like a regular employee and you promises it was all going to be mine but you always paid me 25 cents an hour until I practically screamed and then you only raised me to 50 cents an hour. I would NEVER TAKE YOUR BUSINESS because you will ALWAYS TAKE ALL THE PROFIT AND GIVE US THE LOWEST YOU COULD POSSIBLY GIVE.

we didn't have to say it. We didn't want it. so I learn how to fix the navy computer systems so I could go make my own money.

so this is an example of the tone scale. I looked at covert hostility as a bad tone by what LRH said, but to me Propitiation is MUCH WORSE THAN THAT.

Propitiation is "please don't leave me please don't hurt me"

someone in propitiation will just keep putting the cheeze out in front of his wife and pull it away, (thinking if he gave it all to her she would probably leave him).
until they get so mad he then gives them a nibble and goes back to his same routine.

this gives you a different example of the tone scale using a different tone.

by knowing the tone scale you will be able to find your people and know who you can trust.

jim

My own trust issues are major, as I was always quite naive about people's motives being as pure as mine,
and had to find out the hard way that people are not always as kind as they make out to be.

So many parents exploit their children as a matter of course, and this hardens the boys to keep the family business going despite the fact that there are endless resentments against their parents, and so they harbor unresolved issues which keep the families dysfunctional, yet all remain united with the common goal of building empire.

The only difference between such families and the Mafia is the degree of lawlessness they are prepared to embrace.

How many fathers have stopped their sons careers, and who could have become world-renowned violinists, instead coerced them to join the family business and had them driving delivery trucks for the company.

Jeffrey
28th August 2013, 16:27
Cool! I only got through page 8, but the "Tone Scale" seems interesting! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_scale)

I found guilt to be more draining than anger, fear, or anxiety.

I was in the habit of covering hostility with sarcasm (I think when I felt hurt), but maybe I was just covering criticism with sarcasm so I wouldn't feel guilty about being judgemental? I think I've done both. Hmmm. Things have gotten lighter over the years. Peeling away all the crud I've piled on my heart and mind since I was a kid. Those sex hormones really change you.

Hooray for celibacy when it's done right! Homosexual or heterosexual. The marriage of the masculine and feminine is a potential we carry around within ourselves as individuals. This is making me think about some things, gotta chew on it!

There was a quote and I can't think of it! It's something like "it's much easier to criticize than to create" ... something about creativity. I'll have to find it.

Anyways, back to figuring out the secrets of life and the universe for me! Oh, I make myself laugh ... but that's really what I'm trying to do. Woohoo! Wow I'm laughing hard. And I'm not alone!

:)

This place is great

jiminii
28th August 2013, 16:33
Well let's go lower to propitiation. My father was in propitiation to his family. He worked his beans off from 4am to late at night to make the money but he was always promising things he would never do. He would say next time he goes on a trip he will take me. I got in such a frantic compulsive desire, (now there see I can't find the right words). I mean I did everything I could possibly do to get him to KEEP ONE OF HIS PROMISES. It almost drove me nuts. but in the end after he built this lumber empire he could not get anyone in his family willing to take over his business. If he would have asked me why I would have said, "you never treated me like a regular employee and you promises it was all going to be mine but you always paid me 25 cents an hour until I practically screamed and then you only raised me to 50 cents an hour. I would NEVER TAKE YOUR BUSINESS because you will ALWAYS TAKE ALL THE PROFIT AND GIVE US THE LOWEST YOU COULD POSSIBLY GIVE.

we didn't have to say it. We didn't want it. so I learn how to fix the navy computer systems so I could go make my own money.

so this is an example of the tone scale. I looked at covert hostility as a bad tone by what LRH said, but to me Propitiation is MUCH WORSE THAN THAT.

Propitiation is "please don't leave me please don't hurt me"

someone in propitiation will just keep putting the cheeze out in front of his wife and pull it away, (thinking if he gave it all to her she would probably leave him).
until they get so mad he then gives them a nibble and goes back to his same routine.

this gives you a different example of the tone scale using a different tone.

by knowing the tone scale you will be able to find your people and know who you can trust.

jim

My own trust issues are major, as I was always quite naive about people's motives being as pure as mine,
and had to find out the hard way that people are not always as kind as they make out to be.

So many parents exploit their children as a matter of course, and this hardens the boys to keep the family business going despite the fact that there are endless resentments against their parents, and so they harbor unresolved issues which keep the families dysfunctional, yet all remain united with the common goal of building empire.

The only difference between such families and the Mafia is the degree of lawlessness they are prepared to embrace.

How many fathers have stopped their sons careers, and who could have become world-renowned violinists, instead coerced them to join the family business and had them driving delivery trucks for the company.

now we are getting into where this thread was suppose to lead us. Suppression what is it

Suppression what is it:
suppression is ------>>>> Intention vs counter Intention. You want to do this and someone else wants you to do something else.

2 forces against each other.

The 2 and a half percent of the people on the planet that are causing 20 percent to be what we call potential trouble makers to suppress the remaining 80 percent

there is only 2 and a half percent causing all the trouble and that is why you need to know how dangerous this tone called covert hostility is.

this is their modus operand (don't know if I wrote that right).

so these people CAN NOT HAVE ANGER. so ANGER is the thing that handle them. But since they have made all the laws in such a way that if ANYONE GETS ANGRY, we will just have to say they are nuts and have them institutionalized. You think I am kidding.

The man who was doing the wind tunnel test of the F 118 found it would not meet the specifications that the army wanted and told his superiors. They told him to keep his mouth shut. So he tried to contact the military to tell them.

next he is invited to a party at a mansion in the country side that is a psychiatric prison. They drug him up and flip him out and years after the F118 proved a failure he was only granted the right to leave if he would keep his mouth shut.

you see. these are the people we have to pull all the withholds on.

so knowing this tone scale you can KNOW what communication line to come in on to handle your public.

what is YOUR PUBLIC. Well if it is Whistle blowers than that is your public. To get them to DO ANYTHING you have to get in communication with them. You can only get in communication with them if you can come close to their tone level. Then you will be able to get them to do something.

you can't handle someone in fear with conservatism. you have to come up to a little bit covert hostile which is above him to get in communication. Say something like. "we will have to keep this secret ..you know ... we can do this so no one will know who you are so you will be ok" that is a kind of covert hostile method to use to handle someone in fear.

jim

araucaria
28th August 2013, 16:43
There was a quote and I can't think of it! It's something like "it's much easier to criticize than to create" ... something about creativity. I'll have to find it.
I wonder, would that be "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach"? :)

Delight
28th August 2013, 16:46
I am going to start my own religion so I can make a bunch of money and be protected by the laws of the US government. It is going to have the following precepts. It will be OVERTLY hostile to humans but humans know they need hostility to develop.

1. There is something wrong with our true state. I will appeal to people that they trade the messy authentic for the pretense. I will help them be more pretty looking.
2. We are here in prison and being held down. I will encourage people to take a stance in relation to (oppression) by either fighting or joining oppression. I will have different chapters for the oppressed and the oppressors.
3. There is only one "right" way to experience life. I will help people feel better about conforming to a strict set of rules....cultural, religious, atheist, whatever agreed is the right one. People may skip from one set to another as long as they follow the rules perfectly.
4. It is possible to be totally innocent and still be victimized. People will be helped to learn effective defense against the Badness. If they get victimized, we will all wail.
5. The future is determined by the past. People will dig into the past looking for all they did that was wrong. They will keep at it forever as eternity is a long time.
6. Self development is necessary!!!!!!!!!! Courses courses courses.
7. We will all be punished unless we find a scapegoat. People will be given a selection of scapegoats based on #3 above.
8. Sacrifice is necessary to some "greater being". The sacrifice should hurt and can include giving up whatever is most meaningful but they have to pay a fee to do that. That brings in money for a bigger edifice.
9. Forgiveness is something done for another. People will never be asked to forgive themselves. That would mean we couldn't get money to pardon the sinners.

jiminii
28th August 2013, 17:04
I am going to start my own religion so I can make a bunch of money and be protected by the laws of the US government. It is going to have the following precepts. It will be OVERTLY hostile to humans but humans know they need hostility to develop.

1. There is something wrong with our true state. I will appeal to people that they trade the messy authentic for the pretense. I will help them be more pretty looking.
2. We are here in prison and being held down. I will encourage people to take a stance in relation to (oppression) by either fighting or joining oppression. I will have different chapters for the oppressed and the oppressors.
3. There is only one "right" way to experience life. I will help people feel better about conforming to a strict set of rules....cultural, religious, atheist, whatever agreed is the right one. People may skip from one set to another as long as they follow the rules perfectly.
4. It is possible to be totally innocent and still be victimized. People will be helped to learn effective defense against the Badness. If they get victimized, we will all wail.
5. The future is determined by the past. People will dig into the past looking for all they did that was wrong. They will keep at it forever as eternity is a long time.
6. Self development is necessary!!!!!!!!!! Courses courses courses.
7. We will all be punished unless we find a scapegoat. People will be given a selection of scapegoats based on #3 above.
8. Sacrifice is necessary to some "greater being". The sacrifice should hurt and can include giving up whatever is most meaningful but they have to pay a fee to do that. That brings in money for a bigger edifice.
9. Forgiveness is something done for another. People will never be asked to forgive themselves. That would mean we couldn't get money to pardon the sinners.

I can see by this that you understood everything I said.

(I can't stop laughing .... do you have a remedy for this)

jim

ulli
28th August 2013, 17:13
I am going to start my own religion so I can make a bunch of money and be protected by the laws of the US government. It is going to have the following precepts. It will be OVERTLY hostile to humans but humans know they need hostility to develop.

1. There is something wrong with our true state. I will appeal to people that they trade the messy authentic for the pretense. I will help them be more pretty looking.
2. We are here in prison and being held down. I will encourage people to take a stance in relation to (oppression) by either fighting or joining oppression. I will have different chapters for the oppressed and the oppressors.
3. There is only one "right" way to experience life. I will help people feel better about conforming to a strict set of rules....cultural, religious, atheist, whatever agreed is the right one. People may skip from one set to another as long as they follow the rules perfectly.
4. It is possible to be totally innocent and still be victimized. People will be helped to learn effective defense against the Badness. If they get victimized, we will all wail.
5. The future is determined by the past. People will dig into the past looking for all they did that was wrong. They will keep at it forever as eternity is a long time.
6. Self development is necessary!!!!!!!!!! Courses courses courses.
7. We will all be punished unless we find a scapegoat. People will be given a selection of scapegoats based on #3 above.
8. Sacrifice is necessary to some "greater being". The sacrifice should hurt and can include giving up whatever is most meaningful but they have to pay a fee to do that. That brings in money for a bigger edifice.
9. Forgiveness is something done for another. People will never be asked to forgive themselves. That would mean we couldn't get money to pardon the sinners.


I am going to start my own religion so I can make a bunch of money and be protected by the laws of the US government. It is going to have the following precepts. It will be OVERTLY hostile to humans but humans know they need hostility to develop.

1. There is something wrong with our true state. I will appeal to people that they trade the messy authentic for the pretense. I will help them be more pretty looking.
2. We are here in prison and being held down. I will encourage people to take a stance in relation to (oppression) by either fighting or joining oppression. I will have different chapters for the oppressed and the oppressors.
3. There is only one "right" way to experience life. I will help people feel better about conforming to a strict set of rules....cultural, religious, atheist, whatever agreed is the right one. People may skip from one set to another as long as they follow the rules perfectly.
4. It is possible to be totally innocent and still be victimized. People will be helped to learn effective defense against the Badness. If they get victimized, we will all wail.
5. The future is determined by the past. People will dig into the past looking for all they did that was wrong. They will keep at it forever as eternity is a long time.
6. Self development is necessary!!!!!!!!!! Courses courses courses.
7. We will all be punished unless we find a scapegoat. People will be given a selection of scapegoats based on #3 above.
8. Sacrifice is necessary to some "greater being". The sacrifice should hurt and can include giving up whatever is most meaningful but they have to pay a fee to do that. That brings in money for a bigger edifice.
9. Forgiveness is something done for another. People will never be asked to forgive themselves. That would mean we couldn't get money to pardon the sinners.

That's cults and organized religions in a nutshell. Can I be the financial controller?

northstar
28th August 2013, 17:19
I'm glad you're laughing Jim. Laughter is good.
While you're laughing I will continue to call you out every single time you make a homophobic statement.
Have a lovely day. (oops, I think there is some "covert hostility" in that statement so I will re-phrase it)
Have a lovely gay day! (ahh, that feels much better and more honest - no covert hostility now, no fancy flowery spiritual rhetoric, just good old fashioned overt hostility).

I was dismayed to hear you are currently teaching Jim. Have you ever stopped to reflect on what the flamboyant gay students in your class might feel like when they are exposed to thinly disguised homophobia from a teacher?
There are literally thousands of GLBT kids killing themselves every year due to bullying. The fact that this is being said here under the guise of spirituality goes against all human empathy and decency.
OK I'm gonna stop now because I have to take a breather from this.
End of rant, and sorry if what I just said or if the way I communicated it offended anyone.

jiminii
28th August 2013, 17:34
I'm glad you're laughing Jim. Laughter is good.
While you're laughing I will continue to call you out every single time you make a homophobic statement.
Have a lovely day. (oops, I think there is some "covert hostility" in that statement so I will re-phrase it)
Have a lovely gay day! (ahh, that feels much better and more honest - no covert hostility now, no fancy flowery spiritual rhetoric, just good old fashioned overt hostility).

I was dismayed to hear you are currently teaching Jim. Have you ever stopped to reflect on what the flamboyant gay students in your class might feel like when they are exposed to thinly disguised homophobia from a teacher?
There are literally thousands of GLBT kids killing themselves every year due to bullying. The fact that this is being said here under the guise of spirituality goes against all human empathy and decency.
OK I'm gonna stop now because I have to take a breather from this.
End of rant, and sorry if what I just said or if the way I communicated it offended anyone.

I grant them beingness . I don't put anything on them anymore than anyone else. I just look at it and get some idea of the life these kids might end up in that is all.

jim

Delight
28th August 2013, 21:03
[QUOTE=Delight;721650]

That's cults and organized religions in a nutshell. Can I be the financial controller?

Yes and yes. I hoped this was funny and Jim laughed, 'cause I laugh as I contemplate the absurdity that we set up for ourselves some days. Though I laid out the plan, I may not be able to get it across.... so any entrepreneurs who see it are welcome to use the template...no copyrights here. Love, Maggie

markpierre
30th August 2013, 12:53
I grant them beingness . I don't put anything on them anymore than anyone else. I just look at it and get some idea of the life these kids might end up in that is all.

jim

You don't grant them anything that's a concern to them. If it's not a concern to them, how is it a concern for you?
Except that the effects you feel through an opinion, effects you. That diminishes everyone's 'being'.
Why would you have a concern for the lives they've chosen? It's their choice. My God. Who is a judge?
I practice the appropriate behavior for my planet. My agenda. You may or may not approve.
But the very thing we demand for ourselves. Our choices. And those choices aren't really made by us. They are a script.
We elected that part.
Haven't we discovered by now that everything we 'think' is nutty, because we haven't changed the way we think?
The only trouble with opinions, isn't just that people believe their own. It's that they try to enforce them.
That's just crazy. Mind police. Opinions are residual conditioning that needs to escape. Viewpoints are an inner dialogue.
Lets get to that.

jiminii
30th August 2013, 13:12
I grant them beingness . I don't put anything on them anymore than anyone else. I just look at it and get some idea of the life these kids might end up in that is all.

jim

You don't grant them anything that's a concern to them. If it's not a concern to them, how is it a concern for you?
Except that the effects you feel through an opinion, effects you. That diminishes everyone's 'being'.
Why would you have a concern for the lives they've chosen? It's their choice. My God. Who is a judge?
I practice the appropriate behavior for my planet. My agenda. You may or may not approve.
But the very thing we demand for ourselves. Our choices. And those choices aren't really made by us. They are a script.
We elected that part.
Haven't we discovered by now that everything we 'think' is nutty, because we haven't changed the way we think?
The only trouble with opinions, isn't just that people believe their own. It's that they try to enforce them.
That's just crazy. Mind police. Opinions are residual conditioning that needs to escape. Viewpoints are an inner dialogue.
Lets get to that.

I will explain what I mean by granting beingness. I, (from my side), allow them to be whatever they want to be. I don't try to change them. I am not trying to change anyone on this website either. They all can be whatever they like. I was only trying to define covert hostility (the tone level), I already said I am sorry I hurt anyone's feelings about this. I was just giving examples and it wouldn't matter if you were gay herer or a sexual. coverty hostility is a tone level. It is caused by the amount of pain that is turned on in someone that will place them somrewhere on this tone scale.

jim

Limor Wolf
30th August 2013, 13:42
I grant them beingness . I don't put anything on them anymore than anyone else. I just look at it and get some idea of the life these kids might end up in that is all.

jim

You don't grant them anything that's a concern to them. If it's not a concern to them, how is it a concern for you?
Except that the effects you feel through an opinion, effects you. That diminishes everyone's 'being'.
Why would you have a concern for the lives they've chosen? It's their choice. My God. Who is a judge?
I practice the appropriate behavior for my planet. My agenda. You may or may not approve.
But the very thing we demand for ourselves. Our choices. And those choices aren't really made by us. They are a script.
We elected that part.
Haven't we discovered by now that everything we 'think' is nutty, because we haven't changed the way we think?
The only trouble with opinions, isn't just that people believe their own. It's that they try to enforce them.
That's just crazy. Mind police. Opinions are residual conditioning that needs to escape. Viewpoints are an inner dialogue.
Lets get to that.

I will explain what I mean by granting beingness. I, (from my side), allow them to be whatever they want to be. I don't try to change them. I am not trying to change anyone on this website either. They all can be whatever they like. I was only trying to define covert hostility (the tone level), I already said I am sorry I hurt anyone's feelings about this. I was just giving examples and it wouldn't matter if you were gay herer or a sexual. coverty hostility is a tone level. It is caused by the amount of pain that is turned on in someone that will place them somrewhere on this tone scale.

jim

In many ways what you say is understandable, jim. The contradiction comes when there is a generality that covers a groups of people being put in one 'basket' under a measure of 'tone level'. Is that at all possible? Can the plural have a common association between all of them sharing the same tone level in regards to their sexual orientation? Are all married people share the same tone level?

Giving a little more thought to it, I personally would rather not associate even one recognition of a tone scale related to any sexual preference of any one, I would like to think that the scale of emotions can only be defined and recognized according to people's own behaviours, other than that it may put an unpleasent label on some individuals or on a group for no reason and it may also translate itself as a judgment instead of as a justified objective observation.

Is this debate has exceeded its original direction, or is it giving an 'alive' example within it?

Interesting, either way

Kindly,

Limor

jiminii
1st September 2013, 13:48
I grant them beingness . I don't put anything on them anymore than anyone else. I just look at it and get some idea of the life these kids might end up in that is all.

jim

You don't grant them anything that's a concern to them. If it's not a concern to them, how is it a concern for you?
Except that the effects you feel through an opinion, effects you. That diminishes everyone's 'being'.
Why would you have a concern for the lives they've chosen? It's their choice. My God. Who is a judge?
I practice the appropriate behavior for my planet. My agenda. You may or may not approve.
But the very thing we demand for ourselves. Our choices. And those choices aren't really made by us. They are a script.
We elected that part.
Haven't we discovered by now that everything we 'think' is nutty, because we haven't changed the way we think?
The only trouble with opinions, isn't just that people believe their own. It's that they try to enforce them.
That's just crazy. Mind police. Opinions are residual conditioning that needs to escape. Viewpoints are an inner dialogue.
Lets get to that.

I will explain what I mean by granting beingness. I, (from my side), allow them to be whatever they want to be. I don't try to change them. I am not trying to change anyone on this website either. They all can be whatever they like. I was only trying to define covert hostility (the tone level), I already said I am sorry I hurt anyone's feelings about this. I was just giving examples and it wouldn't matter if you were gay herer or a sexual. coverty hostility is a tone level. It is caused by the amount of pain that is turned on in someone that will place them somrewhere on this tone scale.

jim

In many ways what you say is understandable, jim. The contradiction comes when there is a generality that covers a groups of people being put in one 'basket' under a measure of 'tone level'. Is that at all possible? Can the plural have a common association between all of them sharing the same tone level in regards to their sexual orientation? Are all married people share the same tone level?

Giving a little more thought to it, I personally would rather not associate even one recognition of a tone scale related to any sexual preference of any one, I would like to think that the scale of emotions can only be defined and recognized according to people's own behaviours, other than that it may put an unpleasent label on some individuals or on a group for no reason and it may also translate itself as a judgment instead of as a justified objective observation.

Is this debate has exceeded its original direction, or is it giving an 'alive' example within it?

Interesting, either way

Kindly,

Limor

I see what you are saying. It depends on what dynamic you are operating on. My father was in propitiation to his family. In his work he was more like someone in GAMES (tone 22). when it comes to the 5th dynamic. 'all life forms'. he might be in another tone level ... My father likes to talk about the land and how this and that was created and tells a lot of good stories. So each person has different tone levels depending on what it refers to in life.

for example what tone level would you be in when it comes to the government. Or what tone level would you have toward other religions.

jim

4Talismans
1st September 2013, 23:59
Yeah, this is not what I come to PA for. This is bigotry at it's finest. When you say that some group of people are inferior, just because of some physical attribute that they are helpless to change, that is bigotry. That is racism, and you have just done it to gays.
Are you really incapable of imagining what it's like to go through life with that kind of attitude directed at you? I don't think so, because you have an amazing imagination.
I won't be back to this thread. You may reply to me if you wish but I won't see it.

chocolate
22nd September 2013, 17:16
This thread has definitely gotten some attention. I have noticed this with almost all of jim's threads. What I also noticed is that he seems to have the least hostile reactions in here...
I may not agree with all of what he has said, since the lack of some facts or knowledge is normal for all of us, but I appreciate the conversation.

In regards to the "gay" reference- once upon a time Leonardo Da Vinci has been considered "gay" because of being so much different, handsome, and for having male models for his works... I don't think he cared much about how the rest of the world has labeled him, but who can tell now...
As female I can deeply appreciate the beauty of the female body, without being "gay" (at least haven't noticed gay tendencies in my mature life).

There is also the idea that in the beginning the creator was a being with male and female characteristics, so I wouldn't worry all that much about who is what in their inner worlds. It seems to me some of us (the straight guys) are more sensitive when it comes to homosexuality that the real "gay" people. But as I said, I never saw the people as men, women, children, gay or black. I always saw them as "be-ings".

I want to mention something that I am not sure was mentioned before me. I may have missed it, if already covered, while reading diagonally.
Sometimes quiet and serene people are observed as covertly hostile by the rest of the crowd that may be used to some more aggressive behavior. I am one of those more quiet people, and most of the time am observed as "that type of strange". But in my case I look at the world from other perspectives that cannot even be easily explained. Honestly, some of us are just quiet and serene, not covertly hostile. So please, don't measure us with with the wrong tools (from your own perspectives) ;).

I think this thread is important, but I do sense some disturbance in the force.

AutumnW
22nd September 2013, 17:46
Jim, Covert hostility is a way of dealing with overt hostility. For people who have been bullied and put down, this can become a default protective mechanism. That being said, it's unfair to generalize the way you did in your opening post. I can think of nothing sadder than being bullied, abandoned by family and mistreated for being yourself. Imagine that and reflect on how you would react.

I haven't read through the whole thread but understand that when people speak in generalities they are doing so to process a specific experience(s) they have had that has been hard on them. Can you be more specific or would it be too indelicate, inappropriate or embarrassing for you and or the forum here? It would help me to understand.

Bill Ryan
22nd September 2013, 17:58
I haven't read through the whole thread

Jim, with great respect, did a pretty terrible job of explaining the concept. :)

I tried to assist a little starting in my posts #45 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62627-Covert-Hostility-..the-Tone-Level-...-WHAT-IT-IS&p=719455&viewfull=1#post719455) and #79. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62627-Covert-Hostility-..the-Tone-Level-...-WHAT-IT-IS&p=719683&viewfull=1#post719683)

The thing about gays stems from a complete misunderstanding that Jim had, which I explained on my post #126. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62627-Covert-Hostility-..the-Tone-Level-...-WHAT-IT-IS&p=719935&viewfull=1#post719935)

jiminii
22nd September 2013, 18:12
I used gay as an example but I worded it wrong. I already said I was sorry for that.

covert hostility is where the enemy is too tough to deal with so you try to do it from behind the back.

it is a lower tone. but most of the people in USA are far below that somewhere in the minus tones because they can't even confront going up against this all powerful government even covertly.

they just agree and all sympathize with each other. that is why sympathy is low tone because you are agreeing to nothing can be done about it.

Me I attack it as a being. maybe that is a bit covert because they can't see where it is coming from.

so I kept myself hidden for a long time so it wouldn't jeopardize my mission. But I see ole Bill out here sticking his neck out and that is the right action. because the cabal operate in covert hostility they can't confront the tone just above them that is ANGER.

so when you see people overtly attacking them on the internet under a camera like some people do. the tone level is so far above them they can't even communicate with it.

it is like a child in grief can't hear you or even get in communication with you if you are trying to communicate in enthusiasm

but come down close to their tone like propitiation just above grief and the child will respond to the communication.

any higher and the child will just scream or cry louder.

so because someone overtly attacks the covert hostile cabal the cabal doesn't do anything about it, because they are basically cowards and in a way they feel that the person who let's everyone KNOW HOW BAD THEY ARE it only helps to make people more afraid to attack.

jim

AutumnW
22nd September 2013, 19:54
I am sorry, but I'm having trouble with the various concepts in this thread. Personal troubles (My own emotions, my own responsibility etc). Is there a bottom line to all that's been said here? There is quite a lot of 'good' and 'bad' little judgments between the lines, also 'should' or 'shouldn't'..

Can a covertly hostile person be so 'covert' that he himself wouldn't know it? Or is it only the very consciously intended hostile person that can be put under this definition?
In other words, can some of us which have good to normal intentions but carry inner emotions such as unresolved anger, pain or anxiety but don't want to put it on others therefore 'play nice' are considered as having covert hostility?

What can be done about it?

Hi Limor, I think most people are, on rare occasion, covertly hostile, often in response to a threat. It often expresses as biting sarcasm. I think there is an awareness around it. Most of us have been sarcastic at some point in our lives. I know when I have been, I was very aware of it. But, sarcasm is somewhat spontaneous, and though somewhat covert, it has transparent aspects that make it easier for the adversary to deal with. But deeply covert aggression is a measured, refined attack. The more subtle it is, the more it is expressed as 'concern,' the more potentially damaging to the target. The covert expression of hostility requires premeditation, so I would think that those who engage in the worst forms are well aware of what they are doing.

What can be done about it? The first thing to do is to establish clearly that it is happening. I know I get people's backs up, sometimes--and they react with a slight covertly aggressive attitude. But it's a shared dance, the 'who do you think you are' tango, between antagonists, and responsibility is shared. I retrace my steps and get back on the right foot with antagonist and we become allies. Humor helps.

If you feel consistently bullied, undermined, a bit confused about where somebody is coming from when you are in communication with them, watch them with other people, too. Are they employing a facade, faux concern, hiding behind an ideology in the interest of abusing others? If so, take them aside and privately explain to them what you see happening and be logical about it. Don't tell them how you feel, You are engaged in an emotional exercise but they are engaged in a political one--though they use emotional language as a cover. Speak to them in the language that they don't employ but that will resonate with who they are at core--power dynamics. Most coverts will stop at that point because it's all about being hidden. Calling someone out on this stuff, works. At least it works to keep them away.

AutumnW
22nd September 2013, 20:11
I haven't read through the whole thread

Jim, with great respect, did a pretty terrible job of explaining the concept. :)

I tried to assist a little starting in my posts #45 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62627-Covert-Hostility-..the-Tone-Level-...-WHAT-IT-IS&p=719455&viewfull=1#post719455) and #79. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62627-Covert-Hostility-..the-Tone-Level-...-WHAT-IT-IS&p=719683&viewfull=1#post719683)

The thing about gays stems from a complete misunderstanding that Jim had, which I explained on my post #126. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62627-Covert-Hostility-..the-Tone-Level-...-WHAT-IT-IS&p=719935&viewfull=1#post719935)

Thank you so much for lending a hand! Very interesting information here. I was intrigued that you had a knowledge and experience of scientology, having just watched the new movie with Phillip Seymour Hoffman and Joaquin Phoenix, 'The Master.' You mention that scientology has become an aberration. It is easy to see how this occurs. The potential for a body of ideas to spiral into hell on the backs of those who commandeer them, is in direct proportion to their potential usefulness. Weird how that works!

Having been targeted by a psychopath, a few years ago, I understand well covert agenda driven behavior.

If the deeply covertly hostile persist in hiding mode after death, they will automatically eschew the life review that is so important before we reincarnate, imho.

In this case, if they remain the sum total of their fears and beliefs, they become full blown psychopaths in their next incarnation. When this occurs they develop an actual taste for the suffering of others. It ceases to become merely a way to cope.

Tangri
22nd September 2013, 21:59
I haven't read through the whole thread

Jim, with great respect, did a pretty terrible job of explaining the concept. :)

I tried to assist a little starting in my posts #45 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62627-Covert-Hostility-..the-Tone-Level-...-WHAT-IT-IS&p=719455&viewfull=1#post719455) and #79. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62627-Covert-Hostility-..the-Tone-Level-...-WHAT-IT-IS&p=719683&viewfull=1#post719683)

The thing about gays stems from a complete misunderstanding that Jim had, which I explained on my post #126. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62627-Covert-Hostility-..the-Tone-Level-...-WHAT-IT-IS&p=719935&viewfull=1#post719935)

Thank you so much for lending a hand! Very interesting information here. I was intrigued that you had a knowledge and experience of scientology, having just watched the new movie with Phillip Seymour Hoffman and Joaquin Phoenix, 'The Master.' You mention that scientology has become an aberration. It is easy to see how this occurs. The potential for a body of ideas to spiral into hell on the backs of those who commandeer them, is in direct proportion to their potential usefulness. Weird how that works!

Having been targeted by a psychopath, a few years ago, I understand well covert agenda driven behavior.

If the deeply covertly hostile persist in hiding mode after death, they will automatically eschew the life review that is so important before we reincarnate, imho.

In this case, if they remain the sum total of their fears and beliefs, they become full blown psychopaths in their next incarnation. When this occurs they develop an actual taste for the suffering of others. It ceases to become merely a way to cope.

Modern concept of homosexuality(Gay) offen be confused as a new era which appeared suddenly in our daily life to accept and talk about it.
Nope . Only accepted term has been focused.
Majority of homosexuality is hidden in different terminolgy.
-Child malesting
-Inmate's malesting
-Army's malesting
-Church's malesting
-War's malesting
-.....(you can add what I could skip)
It does not need both site's consent when it complied.
Performers do not acknowledge his/her act as a hmosexual act .
Homosexuality includes
Romantic attraction, sexual attraction, sexual behavior. It does not matter if it skips first step last two make the title.
BC times Roman Empire have very good experience to live it and they never felt of shame to talk about it. Although their partners mostly came from slavery stock.
I think Jiminii's point is, problem occures with sexuality and it slaves spirits with it's low level existantialism.
Sex make us feel that we are alive. He says(IMHO) it has very low level power to do so.

Note: I am disaggree usage word of Homophobia as much as antisemetism Both make them taboo to talk on it.

Hazel
23rd September 2013, 13:12
do forgive my response.

AutumnW
23rd September 2013, 16:10
Tangri, My post had nothing to do with sexual orientation of any kind. Bill Ryan managed to redirect that focus. Covert hostility is an equal opportunity tactic.

Feritciva
13th November 2015, 15:06
:bump:

I'd like to bump this fascinating thread. Missed this completely and saw this for the first time today (thanks to a cross-reference in some other thread), so it would be a good idea to bring this forward - if some other members also missed this too.

Bill Ryan
13th November 2015, 17:59
:bump:

I'd like to bump this fascinating thread. Missed this completely and saw this for the first time today (thanks to a cross-reference in some other thread), so it would be a good idea to bring this forward - if some other members also missed this too.

Yes. it's interesting and important stuff... if properly understood! :bigsmile:

A good idea may be to start with my own post here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62627-Covert-Hostility-..the-Tone-Level-...-WHAT-IT-IS&p=733749&viewfull=1#post733749

Tangri
13th November 2015, 23:56
:bump:

I'd like to bump this fascinating thread. Missed this completely and saw this for the first time today (thanks to a cross-reference in some other thread), so it would be a good idea to bring this forward - if some other members also missed this too.

Yes. it's interesting and important stuff... if properly understood! :bigsmile:

A good idea may be to start with my own post here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62627-Covert-Hostility-..the-Tone-Level-...-WHAT-IT-IS&p=733749&viewfull=1#post733749

This thread brought my attention that Jimini (avalon member) posted 1800 post in 5 months and suddenly stopped. Any news from him?

Bill,

Am I mistakenly get offended By your 45# post which, secretly success "having a canadian slave" idea:waving:

Bill Ryan
14th November 2015, 01:09
Am I mistakenly get offended By your 45# post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62627-Covert-Hostility-..the-Tone-Level-...-WHAT-IT-IS&p=719455&viewfull=1#post719455) which, secretly success "having a canadian slave" idea:waving:

Yes. :)

It's an extremely funny spoof, written to make an interesting point about some of the content of the Old Testament.

Tangri
14th November 2015, 01:24
Am I mistakenly get offended By your 45# post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62627-Covert-Hostility-..the-Tone-Level-...-WHAT-IT-IS&p=719455&viewfull=1#post719455) which, secretly success "having a canadian slave" idea:waving:

Yes. :)

It's an extremely funny spoof, written to make an interesting point about some of the content of the Old Testament.

For correction in wording; we do not use that (slave) word. Immigrant is well suits the situation here.:clapping:

Bob
12th March 2018, 03:36
:bump2:

A valuable thread for the newbies to read and understand.

I highly recommend to STRIKE Jim's GAY bias and look at the data clear without bias.

Vernaianawa
12th March 2018, 04:13
This has made my day lol.



-------

The topic of this thread is valuable. COVERT HOSTILITY needs to be understood.

Here it is:

http://projectavalon.net/Covert_Hostility.gif

But this has nothing to do with homosexuality.

This was recently published on the net. It's hilarious. On her radio show, 'Dr. Laura' [Schlesinger] had said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. Enjoy the following open letter (written by an American teacher):

:)




Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I'm confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your adoring fan,

James M. Kauffman,

Ed.D. Professor Emeritus,
Dept. Of Curriculum, Instruction, and Special Education University of Virginia

P.S. (It would be a damn shame if we couldn't own a Canadian.)

Bob
12th March 2018, 04:18
It seems that this thread reveals a LOT. This thread IS brilliant ! IMHO of course :)

petra
16th April 2018, 10:21
Very educational posting, despite the negative publicity :)



sympathy is lower than covert. At least at covert they are willing to fight a little.
if only they could take it a notch up further and REALLY GET PISSED at the situation of this TRAP.

I was there. Sympathy too (for the evil stuff), but that went away. I'm still REALLY PISSED.... I just don't feel it like I once did, but I know that it's there.

That's why I wonder about the covert hostility. I feel as if I have got passive aggressive down to a science... and so I really have to be careful with my words.

What got me the most angry was the level of orchestration that I perceived.

Some things were even making me shudder. Like how long has this even been going on?!



we are talking about 76 trillion years of pain.

I was wondering how long this has been going on... THANKS! :/

Ernie Nemeth
16th April 2018, 14:54
Couldn't figure this out even then. Is it about homophobia? What is this tone level?

What I took away from this is how many wonderful people are no longer here. I miss them.