PDA

View Full Version : How can you explain Truth?



Imjusttrying
5th September 2013, 20:11
I have been pondering on this thought for a while now and something is telling me to ask this question humbly to all of you. How can you explain Truth? Before you answer this question let me say this. Across this forum there have been some awesome claims. Claims that have blown my imagination and has opened up my mind in ways that will never be the same. I understand that claims need to have some backing for authenticity but what if that authenticity is that individuals intuition or perception of truth? How would you be able to verify somebodies gut feeling as being true or false? I can use this as an example and this is by no means is directed negatively. A member has claimed that he can change weather and maneuver hurricanes. He states this as "truth" and really believes it. Maybe it is true or maybe is isnt. But what if I said that I was the one that changed the weather? Could that not also be true if my intuition and "gut" tells me that I did it?

That thought leads me to this postulate.

Every body's personal experience has some legitimacy to it. I mean a persons eye-witness account is viable in a court of law so who am I to question what they have experienced. I use how I feel or "intuition" to discern whether or not that person seems true to ME. This is my point that I am trying to make. What if "truth" is different for everyone since they are perceiving that "truth" from a different perspective? Take a look at the people that are asleep in this world. They truly believe that this material world or dimension is the end all, so this is all they "see" or perceive. But at some point something might happen to them that could change their perception of what "truth" is. Thus continually changing what truth really means on an individual basis.

What if "truth" is just the series of experiences that we have as a soul trying to get to source or God or whatever entity you prefer.

I am different. I know, and when say that I know I mean that every single cell in my body KNOWS that I am different. Call it whatever you like, Crystal, Indigo, Rainbow, I don't care anymore I have no need for labels. What I am trying to get across is this. I have never seen anything out of the ordinary in my life. I have never seen a UFO, i have never had an out of body experience, I have never experienced anything "mystical" happen to me. Yet, I KNOW they happen, and I KNOW that I am not originally from Earth. It is something deeper than my gut like at my very core that is telling me. It is something so real to me that I perceive it as truth even though I have never seen anything that could justify my claim.

So I humbly ask the members of this forum. How can you explain truth?

Ernie Nemeth
5th September 2013, 20:17
Ultimately, you cannot.

As soon as you open your mouth, the truth slips away...

turiya
5th September 2013, 20:21
So I humbly ask the members of this forum. How can you explain truth?

Not possible! Any attempt to put truth into words makes it come out a lie!

And that's the truth of the matter... turiya :cool:


From another off-topic post: (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?46901-The-turiya-file&p=716669&viewfull=1#post716669)


All Words Are Lies!

http://curezone.com/upload/_T_Forums/turiya_file/dhyana_journey_006_A_DAY_THAT_WILL_NOT_BE_FORGOTTE N_with_border_blue_b.png

posted by :cool:turiya

Sérénité
5th September 2013, 21:01
I struggle with this too. I grew up with a mother who experienced things, it seemed normal as a child to listen to things she said and I believed her implicitly.
As I now try to talk to her about things that I experience, I get the impression she doesn't believe what I'm saying is the truth.
As children we take everything at face value, we believe everything we're told is truth and need no validation or proof.
Of course Father Christmas is real, he's just shy. Of course the tooth fairy took your tooth, she's just very small and if you don't believe you can't see...

As we grow older we learn the world isn't so magical. That people tell lies, manipulate us and there are charlatans and con artists round every corner waiting to have us over.

We loose our ability to trust anything without proof, which is a good protection mechanism, but also closes our minds somewhat and makes us question things when we should just go with our instinct.

It's a question I ask myself a lot, it's hard to share and compare when you sometimes question yourself on your experiences. If I doubt myself, how would anyone else think I'm telling the truth?

There's no answer really. I guess we just follow our instincts and hope it doesn't let us down...and hope when stuff does happen there's someone around to back up our story :)

Sgt-Bones
5th September 2013, 21:06
Truth: that which HAS occurred, or IS occurring.

Carmen
5th September 2013, 21:11
To me, truth is what is verified 'within' and 'without' or 'without' and 'within'. It takes 'presence' to access it.

Davidallany
5th September 2013, 21:11
Truth can only be experienced with a very quiet mind, senses checked and thoughts monitored. Thus truth is the experience experienced by a very quiet, concentrated and vigilant mind.

Sunny-side-up
5th September 2013, 21:31
Simply listen to what your higher self is saying, you will only hear truth!

Imjusttrying
5th September 2013, 21:58
All of your responses are great and a needed perspective to understand the big picture. I just feel that there is something that we as a whole (human race) are missing. I cannot put this thought into words for it is way to abstract even for me but let me give you all an example of where I am trying to go with this. Let's say that my parents give me a car X for my birthday. In that moment I now own that car and it is truth because I have the keys to it and I drive it. But what if through their free will they had decided to give me car Y instead of car X. In that moment it would be true that I owned that car because my parents decided to get me car Y. Yet, what if my parents through their free will had decided to not get me a car at all? This leaves me to this paradox almost. Would these situations be all true since they could all have happened but I'm only observing one perspective of one timeline? That leads me to this question also. Are all time lines true?

scanner
5th September 2013, 22:00
Truth , is only as good as ones own belief .

Carmen
5th September 2013, 22:03
In the end, what's true for you, is true for you. It's subjective! When we grow up, it grows up (truth) and changes, just as we change (or should do).

PurpleLama
5th September 2013, 22:25
Truth can only be experienced with a very quiet mind, senses checked and thoughts monitored. Thus truth is the experience experienced by a very quiet, concentrated and vigilant mind.

This bears repeating.

Davidallany
5th September 2013, 22:34
All of your responses are great and a needed perspective to understand the big picture. I just feel that there is something that we as a whole (human race) are missing. I cannot put this thought into words for it is way to abstract
Also you have some grammar mistakes. To have an effective communication you should strengthen your linguistic skills first. Language is inefficient as it is, more so with grammatical error.

Before you ask 'what is Truth?'. Ask 'who is asking the question?' then 'who am I ?'

Linda Joy Crutcher
5th September 2013, 22:40
Truth is relative. What is real in mind is real to the one experiencing the world in which he lives. Conviction or faith about what's real is also relative and the manifestation of those convictions happen accordingly. What is problematic for many is that some impose their reality (truth) upon others and expect them to rise up, or down, to that standard and accept truths that they cannot, or are not yet ready, to open to.

Our paths and what we are here to learn are unique to us, and to judge what one does, or can do, by another's path minimizes the wonder and awesomeness of our own journey. Your truth is right on. . . and so is theirs. Both are true, both real, and both manifest accordingly and with the faith of the consciousness that accepts what is true.

Blessings and love,

Linda

spiritguide
5th September 2013, 22:44
Truth is perceived. Your senses tell you and they are hot wired into your spirit suit (body). IMHO

Peace!

Linda Joy Crutcher
5th September 2013, 22:47
It is a wonderful thing to be able to slide the scale of man's mind and know that we can decode, decipher, and understand what we say without so much emphasis on how we say it or how we write it, donchathink?

Linda Joy Crutcher
5th September 2013, 23:03
Or, in chaos, in times of sorrow, madness, work, play and just plain living!

CD7
5th September 2013, 23:06
Every body's personal experience has some legitimacy to it. I mean a persons eye-witness account is viable in a court of law so who am I to question what they have experienced. I use how I feel or "intuition" to discern whether or not that person seems true to ME. This is my point that I am trying to make. What if "truth" is different for everyone since they are perceiving that "truth" from a different perspective? Take a look at the people that are asleep in this world. They truly believe that this material world or dimension is the end all, so this is all they "see" or perceive. But at some point something might happen to them that could change their perception of what "truth" is. Thus continually changing what truth really means on an individual basis.




Awesome points you are making!! I view 'truth' similarly to you in that our OWN perspective of truth is expressed differently among each individual..and also changes through one's life as you stated..


I view it as if TRUTH/SOURCE were a white light that was splintered off into a myriad of rainbow colors...I feel this is close to what we do---OR should I say supposed to be doing to emit our full potential We are reflections in different colors...so naturally my perspective of truth is not going to "look/sound" like your perspective of truth when expressed GENUINELY <----- and I think genuinely is an important point.


When were in observation mode...we are all viewing from A DIFFERENT ANGLE....so our expression is not going to be exact as another persons view coming from a completely different angle--life, age, sex, geography

The idea is to get ALL ANGLES TO OPERATE together and reveal ONE HELL OF A GEMSTONE emitting every color you know and a ton you do not



So what happens now....all perspective truths are cast aside, most never see the light of day---they are not utilized in unison for the good of all. In place of it is a SYSTEM OF "TRUTH" that has been set up, choreographed, packaged, encrypted, scripted, sifted, categorized, labeled---FOR ALL TO FOLLOW from cradle to grave.

hummmm quite one sided isn't it? Everythings backwards upside down---time to turn this mother over :)

Camilo
5th September 2013, 23:29
I cannot describe/explain Truth, but if you want to know if something is true, you will feel it in your belly, your knowing.

Sgt-Bones
6th September 2013, 02:20
Truth is not subject to individual perception/perspective, as some here have suggested.

Ultimately the truth JUST IS... it is constant, it is based in reality, it is NOT variable OR subjective... it is ABSOLUTE.

The are no "versions" of the truth... there is only THE TRUTH.

On the other hand, our PERCEPTION of the truth can be (and often is) subverted and influenced by individual perspective, beliefs, programming, conditioning etc... but make no mistake about it the truth of any matter is TOTALLY independent of all that.

No matter what our perceptions about the truth might be... the truth about any matter at any one single point in time is and always will be JUST AS IT IS at that point in time.

As I stated earlier, the truth is simply that which HAS occurred or that which IS occurring... nothing more, nothing less.

The notion (and commonly held belief) that we each have OUR OWN TRUTH (or versions of it) is a total fallacy.

In actual fact, nothing could be further from the truth :)

ghostrider
6th September 2013, 03:27
the truth is , oneness is the secret to everything in the cosmos ... everything is connected on a fine matter level ... the breath between us and the trees , the flowers and the bees , the bird riding on the elephants back , the nats following the elephants feeding on dung , birds feeding on nats , birds keeping nats from bugging the elephants , the apple from the tree connected to the ground , to the earth's core, the same apple that my mother ate, and fine matter peices divert and nourish me as a blip in her womb , I'm part of the apple , the tree, the ground , the core, my mother, water, and everything that lives in the water, everything that breathes in the air , we share the same breath ... I am part of everything and everything is a part of me, a ballet of oneness ensues , we move together, we exsist together , oneness is truth ... here's a yin and yang for you, divide and conquer = unite and be free ...
m

Sammy
6th September 2013, 03:54
Like so many words "truth" has many meanings.

Truth is what is true for you the moment you decide it is true and there is only one truly true thing about this kind of truth, it usually changes.

Note, I wrote "usually." Not all these types of truths ever eventually change.

An example I can give is the truth of my love for my children. That truth will never change. But most other truths usually change because as one moves through experiences, their points of view change and eventually (if they are able to be honest with themselves) they may find that something they once thought was a "forever truth" no longer is.

I find the most unhappy people seem to cling to their established truths.

I prefer the freedom of being able to change my mind and I do so all the time. Perhaps that is a truth that will never change... the truth that I always change.

Such is existence in form.

PHARAOH
6th September 2013, 11:37
TRUTH, can only felt from within.

Anchor
6th September 2013, 12:17
The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named is not the eternal name
The nameless is the origin of Heaven and Earth
The named is the mother of myriad things

Thus, constantly free of desire
One observes its wonders
Constantly filled with desire
One observes its manifestations

These two emerge together but differ in name
The unity is said to be the mystery
Mystery of mysteries, the door to all wonders



(link if you want) (http://www.taoism.net/ttc/chapters/chap01.htm)
--

> How can you explain Truth?

In words, one cannot do so, you can only approach it.

I have found that when making any attempt, its best done in the context of an answer to a question - at least then, there is a reasonable chance its worth the effort. Also when asked a question, one has implicitly been given license to speak on things that you may not otherwise have felt it appropriate to speak on.

Rosieposie
6th September 2013, 13:15
Maybe truth is the timeline we are on and what occurs on it (more black and white) and perception is the processing of the timeline via the individual reflecting into their own internal timeline with all the facets that make up who they are and via that internalization and interaction of energies the amazing array of this existence occurs and makes our future malleable and give this experience the depth and variability required for soul learning and experience.

Perhaps that is what makes us so magical is that despite being on something that may well be black and white we have the ability to reach inside of ourselves into what is basically your own internal universe of energy and use that to interact with the world and thus influence the black and white, for better or worse.

Which is why there is a difference between the more black and white truth of what occurs on the timeline and the completely unmeasurable truth of the individual with whom nobody else can judge, tell or control accurately what is occurring to that person but themselves and thus we have to learn not to impose internal truths onto others or we will always have problems on the in between, the timeline which we co create.

Just pondering it's an interesting thought :D

CD7
6th September 2013, 13:46
Truth is not subject to individual perception/perspective, as some here have suggested.

Ultimately the truth JUST IS... it is constant, it is based in reality, it is NOT variable OR subjective... it is ABSOLUTE.

The are no "versions" of the truth... there is only THE TRUTH.

On the other hand, our PERCEPTION of the truth can be (and often is) subverted and influenced by individual perspective, beliefs, programming, conditioning etc... but make no mistake about it the truth of any matter is TOTALLY independent of all that.

No matter what our perceptions about the truth might be... the truth about any matter at any one single point in time is and always will be JUST AS IT IS at that point in time.

As I stated earlier, the truth is simply that which HAS occurred or that which IS occurring... nothing more, nothing less.

The notion (and commonly held belief) that we each have OUR OWN TRUTH (or versions of it) is a total fallacy.

In actual fact, nothing could be further from the truth :)


Oh yah mr space cowboy!? Well get out your sword I challenge you, or whip hehe!! :whip:

Since you so trashed my point of view on truth implying it couldn't be further from the truth welp.....


First, all our perspectives on "truth" are different depending upon how one is even defining their word "truth"


SO with tht let me attempt to explain why I come to the conclusions about truth ---



IF the both of us were in a room, blank with nothing in it but a chair sitting in the middle of the room--


If I were floating above this chair looking down on it and observing, I would be viewing my version of the chair. You are placed underneath the chair, so in your observation you view the details/ shapes of underneath the chair...


The chair is somewhat analogous to life--- when I express my truth about the "chair" from my view genuinely as I see it, it is a version of truth

Now you will express your perspective of the chair coming from underneath--you will say how you see it----IT IS your version of the truth


In our world the whole source/truth has been fractured... we are viewing from different angles OUR VIEW IS FRACTURED WE NEED EACH OTHER TO UNDERSTAND THE CHAIR--LIFE if we all cooperated and were able to purvey and KNOW every angle of the chair in its completeness-there would be more understanding-enlightenment. Instead what we do now is argue that each angle of the chair is WRONG when in actuality its just another angle/version of the "chair" it is a version of truth --we even kill each other arguing over different ANGLES of the chair


In deeper terms....GOD/SOURCE/TRUTH is ALL EYES VERSIONS ANGLES known... viewing at one time-- 72 eyes of god


Ok you can still poo poo my version of truth, but at least ive explained my take further

Imjusttrying
6th September 2013, 13:50
Like so many words "truth" has many meanings.

Truth is what is true for you the moment you decide it is true and there is only one truly true thing about this kind of truth, it usually changes.

Note, I wrote "usually." Not all these types of truths ever eventually change.

An example I can give is the truth of my love for my children. That truth will never change. But most other truths usually change because as one moves through experiences, their points of view change and eventually (if they are able to be honest with themselves) they may find that something they once thought was a "forever truth" no longer is.

I find the most unhappy people seem to cling to their established truths.

I prefer the freedom of being able to change my mind and I do so all the time. Perhaps that is a truth that will never change... the truth that I always change.

Such is existence in form.

I really enjoyed this response justoneman, especially your second to last sentence. It seems almost ironic that the only real truth in life is that truth is always changing.

Imjusttrying
6th September 2013, 14:07
I have come to realize that I as a spiritual being am on a odyssey to find something. That something is unknown to me right now but I believe that what I am looking for is no different then what all of you are looking for. Yes i might have a different perspective or a different method to reach my goal but it is all the same in the end. Maybe truth is something that doesn't need to be explained or quantified. Maybe truth is just the journey to finding unity in each other. I believe that CD7 is right on with her comment "In our world the whole source/truth has been fractured... we are viewing from different angles OUR VIEW IS FRACTURED WE NEED EACH OTHER TO UNDERSTAND THE CHAIR--LIFE if we all cooperated and were able to purvey and KNOW every angle of the chair in its completeness-there would be more understanding-enlightenment. Instead what we do now is argue that each angle of the chair is WRONG when in actuality its just another angle/version of the "chair" it is a version of truth --we even kill each other arguing over different ANGLES of the chair'

Tony
6th September 2013, 14:48
Truth is the awareness of awareness that is 'just' aware.
That 'just' awareness, is pure awareness
uncontaminated by our personal ideas.

Anchor
6th September 2013, 22:35
Saw this on reddit, thought it was sort of relevant

http://i.imgur.com/uNnPKeN.png

Tony
7th September 2013, 14:25
Truth, surely must be that which does not change.
Therefore it must always... be.

As every thing changes, no thing can be said to truly exist.
So the question arises: What does not change?

A. Pure Awareness. Without that no thing would be known.

The only truth is still pure awareness....pure being!

It's a funny old world, we run around looking for the truth
when we are 'it' all the time;)


Tony

Tony
8th September 2013, 06:46
Truth.

Truth is reality, that which is constant.
Comings and goings are merely
temporary events, and only a seeming reality.

This seeming reality is just toys.

There are three non-things that are constant.
Pure awareness, Space and Number.

Space is constant.
Whatever takes place in space, space never changes.
Like pure awareness, space can never not be.

Number is formula – proportions.
Before anything can be created,
there has to be a recipe - causes and conditions.

Although things (like a cookie) have no true reality,
the formula to create one always works,
if the right causes and conditions are present.

A good 'magician' creates for the benefit of others.
A bad 'magician' will create,
but only from their narcissistic tendencies.

The difference between a good 'magician' and a bad 'magician'
is that a good 'magician' recognises pure awareness,
and so has compassion for others.

A bad 'magician' only wants to play God.

(incidentally, music and mantra is number,
creating a good atmosphere...or bad one!)





Tony

aniN
8th September 2013, 08:11
Another way to look at it, with a lot more understanding what, why and how in this site http://www.whatonearthishappening.com/ ( and more deeper for those who are lazy and cant press a few more buttons... http://www.whatonearthishappening.com/intro-truth-a-lies/46-what-is-truth )

Eram
8th September 2013, 09:00
..[snip]

That thought leads me to this postulate.

Every body's personal experience has some legitimacy to it. I mean a persons eye-witness account is viable in a court of law so who am I to question what they have experienced. I use how I feel or "intuition" to discern whether or not that person seems true to ME. This is my point that I am trying to make. What if "truth" is different for everyone since they are perceiving that "truth" from a different perspective? Take a look at the people that are asleep in this world. They truly believe that this material world or dimension is the end all, so this is all they "see" or perceive. But at some point something might happen to them that could change their perception of what "truth" is. Thus continually changing what truth really means on an individual basis.

What if "truth" is just the series of experiences that we have as a soul trying to get to source or God or whatever entity you prefer.

[snip]...

Hi Imjusttrying and welcome to Avalon :wave:.

I don't believe that truth is something that has many angles or versions. People can have different viewpoints or experiences but that is all that it is, viewpoints and personal experiences, based on their understandings of the one truth.

Life and the Universe is created in a very specific way.
You can see this at work just by studying nature.
There are laws at work to which all life is subjected.
These Universal laws are what you might call the truth about reality.

Your way of arguing is a form of solipsism if I'm not mistaken.


Solipsism is the philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist. As an epistemological position, solipsism holds that knowledge of anything outside one's own mind is unsure. The external world and other minds cannot be known, and might not exist outside the mind. As a metaphysical position, solipsism goes further to the conclusion that the world and other minds do not exist. As such it is the only epistemological position that, by its own postulate, is both irrefutable and yet indefensible in the same manner.

Sure, one man can change the weather and the other can't, but this is based on the conscious or unconscious ability of a given person to apply their understanding of the Universal laws.

Some people may argue that in essence all is just an illusion and maybe, maybe this is ultimately so, but it is a speculation because nobody can prove it.
As long as we are part of this illusion (if true), we have to play by the rules by which this "illusion" is designed, or we don't get to go through start and collect 20.000 dollar ;).

To grow as an entity that you are, you need to learn about reality and the laws that exist in it.
Only through mastering these understandings, you can develop and rise through the different worlds/dimensions.

You either evolve or devolve, based on your understandings about reality and if you watch humanity at this point in time, you might argue that the forces of darkness do an excellent job in keeping us in the dark about the knowledge about reality :).

Mu2143
8th September 2013, 11:08
...................