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Shannow
26th September 2013, 10:23
Bah as much as oil has served a purpose, the stuff is nasty lol. The more I study plants and the more I learn of all they can do the more I think that is our future. I'm even growing plants for soap lol and they have graphite batteries and algae lights etc I think our future is one of intelligent integration with nature.

I see a future where we are the gardeners of earth. Intelligence and empathy united, yin and yang :)

Gosh darnit ain't I just a hippy :D

Rats..........I was so hoping for a fluorescent squid on a stick as a nightlight, and what do I get.....algae, ah well, why not, totally worthy of its own thread btw, bioluminescence as a light source would be amazing to have in a home/office or as streetlights, grow light, therapy, just think of how much you would/could save on your power bills. That is the possibly really great news, the bad news is they would stretch out the oil supply for use in motor vehicles and we would stay stuck them until it finally runs out, if ever.

I've spoken to this guy a number of times, first on the phone suggesting that he was violating physical laws (which he proved to me he wasn't if you think of them right), and then in a meeting where he explained how he got to where he is...

http://foreverlight.com.au/

Got some of his stuff in my house, and it's pretty wicked (made a self illuminating house number sign out of a sheet).

===

[ Mod-edit: The first twelve posts of this thread began life on the thread: Hydrocarbon supply ‘relatively boundless' - no peak oil ! (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?63677-Hydrocarbon-supply---relatively-boundless-no-peak-oil--). - Paul. ]

Rosieposie
26th September 2013, 10:45
Hey Shannow that's pretty awesome!! I wonder what they are made out of though but if they last forever then they can be made out of something like plastic and that would be fine, it's mostly just the constant waste of the stuff that causes the problems, it isn't a product that should be treated like it's easily returned to nature. The algae lamps I was talking about use nano technology to catch the small amount of electricity algae produces while "eating" light and oxygen and producing co2, see there's so much cool stuff out there that's just not in mainstream!

Another example I know about that are jammed up in production (for about a decade now lol) are Air Cars, they run of compressed air. They were designed by a chap who used to be a mechanic for those drag car races which apparently get to their high speeds due to a release of compressed air, he spent a decade or so designing and building engines that run entirely off the pistons firing from compressed air. The car was light weight, made from hemp fibre the cylinders designed in a specific way so they were safe and he had some bright refilling system that I can't remember and has been waiting to be in production for a long time (caught a lot of interest and had mega orders from countries like India), funnily enough he seems to have drowned in a storm of paperwork and can't get out. That same company designed a whole bunch of really interesting stuff using some really great solutions to energy issues.

I really think all our solutions are already there.. in someones backyard, in a business jammed up in paperwork, in some scientists mad lab experiment or brewing in the back of some kids head as they ponder the worlds problems. All we need is liberation!

Shannow
26th September 2013, 11:12
Hey Shannow that's pretty awesome!! I wonder what they are made out of though but if they last forever then they can be made out of something like plastic and that would be fine, it's mostly just the constant waste of the stuff that causes the problems, it isn't a product that should be treated like it's easily returned to nature. The algae lamps I was talking about use nano technology to catch the small amount of electricity algae produces while "eating" light and oxygen and producing co2, see there's so much cool stuff out there that's just not in mainstream!!

Rosieposie, the inventor claims that he started the luminescent concept based on the blood of some worm that glows in the dark if you are digging in the garden at night in QLD...then a mechanism to get heat photons to produce electricity, to drive the luminescence, a three part process. He hasn't patented, as to do so, he would have to tell everyone how to do so...it's very similar (in concept to your algae, just "solid state" in plastic).

The neat part is that using heat, to make light means that it is "forever", not just light storage like a glow in the dark frisbee.

I've got a couple of quarter sheets around the house, as thy provide just enough illumination for everyone to go pee in the middle of the night. Made a self illuminating house number, and glued some strips to the sides of my meter box, so that people don't hit it in the dark.

Rosieposie
26th September 2013, 11:15
Bet they wouldn't be able to jack prices up etc if proutys theory is correct and goes mainstream lol in saying that the real question is more perhaps is it wise to be using the stuff in the long term?

Shannow
26th September 2013, 11:20
This product, taken to it's logical conclusion (I don't know the energy cost in making it), takes in heat, converts it (I know not how) to light, then the light is emitted into the blackness of space could (and it's only my logical conclusion) bypass a "greenhouse" effect should one exist.

The inventor based his argument for how it works on the fact that once the light is in the right wavelength, it can be radiated throug a medium that is transparent to that wavelength (like CO2 isn't to heat).

Rosieposie
26th September 2013, 11:21
Now I want to get some for my house lol!

TargeT
26th September 2013, 16:59
This product, taken to it's logical conclusion (I don't know the energy cost in making it), takes in heat, converts it (I know not how) to light, then the light is emitted .

so, it just works of ambient heat?

Shannow
26th September 2013, 21:27
This product, taken to it's logical conclusion (I don't know the energy cost in making it), takes in heat, converts it (I know not how) to light, then the light is emitted .

so, it just works of ambient heat?

Yep,
takes in ambient heat, and shifts the photons up to visible light.

According to the inventor, his first prototype was wires and gear, then having corrosion issues, he changed to the new design which is (for want of a better word) "solid state" crystals suspended in plastic.

Shannow
26th September 2013, 21:53
Have received a request to stay on topic...here goes.

Everyone who promotes infinite oil, zero point energy, free energy as being a "solution" to problems has little to no understanding of thermodynamics, greenhouse scares or not.

Nick Matkin made some great points...perpetual growth in consumption of "stuff", of say 3% to maintain "economic growth" in a world of debt based money means that every 20 years, we use more "stuff" than all of history combined...the next 20, we use more than that 20 and all of history before it.

To claim that perpetual economic growth is even a target, on a finite globe is ridiculous at best, whether the oil fairies make a deposit every night or not.

The problem with "energy" is that it's released as heat. Doesn't matter what you do with it.

1KG of coal holds 25MJ give or take, and a KG of oil 45MH. E=MC^2 tells you how much energy is available in the nuclear cycle.

Burn either in a brazier in your lounge room, or in the most advanced power station in the world to electricity to a reverse cycle air conditioner to heat your home, and the end result is 25MJ, 45MJ, or whatever heat that the environment has to get out of the atmosphere, greenhouse scare mongering or not.

Only way that can happen is simple laws of physics. Space is big and cold, and the earth has to radiate energy at the rates of E*(Th^4-Tl^4), E being the effective emmisivity, Th being the temperature of the Earth, and Tl being the temperature of space.

The globe HAS to heat to get rid of the surplus energy that's either stored solar from aeons past, nuclear, zero point, or the nightly placement of the oil fairy.

Current usage, the temperature can't be that much higher, but with perpetual economic growth, the temperature inexoribly climbs, as it's the only way that the surplus energy can be thermodynamically released.

The item that I've been discussing, while tiny scale has apparently cracked a nut in being able to turn ambient heat into light, which can escape the atmospher in another (visible light) form.

Sorry if people consider my posts a hijack, go on discussing how there's enough for everyone forever, and don't worry about the thermodynamics of such were it true.

Shannow
26th September 2013, 22:19
Renewables and alternate energy have to be flushed out of the system.

Keep prices high, so that alternate technologies start to become economically viable, people invest in them, and when they are starting to look OK, drop the price of energy and pull the rug out from under them.

Over and Over again.

Bob
26th September 2013, 22:38
Renewables and alternate energy have to be flushed out of the system.

Keep prices high, so that alternate technologies start to become economically viable, people invest in them, and when they are starting to look OK, drop the price of energy and pull the rug out from under them.

Over and Over again.

There is no question the thermodynamic implications of more hydrocarbon burning, I did point out though there are ways to totally deal with any internal combustion system converting carbon to calories. I did find your gassify post enjoyable and I do have gassifiers also, for cellulose. I use catalysts to get the flue gases clean by the way.

TargeT
27th September 2013, 00:39
This product, taken to it's logical conclusion (I don't know the energy cost in making it), takes in heat, converts it (I know not how) to light, then the light is emitted .

so, it just works of ambient heat?

Yep,
takes in ambient heat, and shifts the photons up to visible light.

According to the inventor, his first prototype was wires and gear, then having corrosion issues, he changed to the new design which is (for want of a better word) "solid state" crystals suspended in plastic.

I'm certainly less excited at 550$ a sheet.... but it's very interesting.

Flash
27th September 2013, 03:17
I checked their website, then the sales button for prices, and in America it directs to "Everlatinglight.com" which has not mention of such pannels, same in UK, etc.

I Wonder it this is a true story and if so, I can we get the prices? And where to buy? I would get a few for my house too..

Ok, just saw your post Target. Where did you get the information? Do you kow how many panels are needed for a decent lighting?

Bob
27th September 2013, 04:09
This product, taken to it's logical conclusion (I don't know the energy cost in making it), takes in heat, converts it (I know not how) to light, then the light is emitted .

so, it just works of ambient heat?

Yep,
takes in ambient heat, and shifts the photons up to visible light.

According to the inventor, his first prototype was wires and gear, then having corrosion issues, he changed to the new design which is (for want of a better word) "solid state" crystals suspended in plastic.

I'm certainly less excited at 550$ a sheet.... but it's very interesting.

I did some looking on the upconverting of heat to light and found this link:
http://www.trnmag.com/Stories/2002/052902/Crystal_turns_heat_to_light_052902.html

From the article:
" The researchers built the photonic crystal structure in silicon, then removed some of the silicon and exposed the structure to a chemical vapor to coat it with tungsten. The discovery that this particular structure concentrated wavelengths was accidental, said Fleming. "The structure appears to be able to modify the range of wavelengths emitted by the filament. The odd emissive behavior was... not predicted. We came upon it in the course of other, related work," he said.

The researchers have not worked out the details of how the effect happens, said Fleming. "We need to better develop the theory behind the effect," he said. The work is novel, said Eli Yablonovitch, a professor of electrical engineering at the University of California at Los Angeles. "It's... probably the first application of photonic crystals to the energy industry," he said. ""

"Also - The effect has the potential to increase the efficiency of small-scale devices that convert heat to electricity, he said. "It could lead to small portable electric generators that run on... fuel and that would produce electricity very efficiently. In general it's competitive with many other methods of producing electricity, but it's efficient even in a small unit," he said. ""

targeT, being in the solar field, one of the biggest losses is the heat issue with the photovoltaics - it seems to me then adding a heat to light converter might be very good to a PV. If it is 550 a sheet though that sure outweighs the ability to make a PV produce more useful output over the day (or nite?). Just thinking out loud.

TargeT
27th September 2013, 13:19
targeT, being in the solar field, one of the biggest losses is the heat issue with the photovoltaics - it seems to me then adding a heat to light converter might be very good to a PV. If it is 550 a sheet though that sure outweighs the ability to make a PV produce more useful output over the day (or nite?). Just thinking out loud.

I was considering the idea of using these as "night covers" for panel arrays, I'm sure the conversion from light to electricity would be very low (going from these panels to PV panels) apparently the heat taken in by the panels in the above link is so low that it would not affect temperature much at all, though they said they are looking into changing that for a heat extraction panel which is highly interesting...

now the much more exciting prospect is converting heat to electricity directly, especially if it works at low temp; this would revolutionize power production though a good storage method is still desperately needed.

Atlas
27th September 2013, 13:43
I checked their website, then the sales button for prices, and in America it directs to "Everlatinglight.com" which has not mention of such pannels, same in UK, etc.

I Wonder it this is a true story and if so, I can we get the prices? And where to buy? I would get a few for my house too..

Ok, just saw your post Target. Where did you get the information? Do you kow how many panels are needed for a decent lighting?
No, it's not true Flash. The company Advanced Luminescent Technologies Pty Ltd - ABN 45 134 728 957 simply does not exist. From the FAQs:

Last night my panels produced a brilliant flash of light, what happened?
This is a very rare event, the first time it happen to us, our experiments were separated by 40Kms and both samples produced a flash that was brighter than a camera flash. We are not exactly sure why this happened. We suspect it is astronomical in nature.

TargeT
27th September 2013, 13:55
I checked their website, then the sales button for prices, and in America it directs to "Everlatinglight.com" which has not mention of such pannels, same in UK, etc.

I Wonder it this is a true story and if so, I can we get the prices? And where to buy? I would get a few for my house too..

Ok, just saw your post Target. Where did you get the information? Do you kow how many panels are needed for a decent lighting?

Here's where I'm seeing the price info:
http://foreverlight.com.au/products-foreverlight_panelgen2point3.php

I think these panels wouldn't be ideal for "decent lighting", more like enough light to see where you are walking, a "night light"... but again I have never seen these in person so I cannot really comment accurately.

Atlas
27th September 2013, 14:16
The phone number does not exist: Telephone: +61 (2) 6372 7809

It's fake, did you try foreverlight.net (http://foreverlight.net/) ? It's fake too.


Sorry if people consider my posts a hijack

TargeT
27th September 2013, 14:26
The phone number does not exist: Telephone: +61 (2) 6372 7809

It's fake, did you try foreverlight.net (http://foreverlight.net/) ? It's fake too.


Sorry if people consider my posts a hijack

well...



I've got a couple of quarter sheets around the house, as thy provide just enough illumination for everyone to go pee in the middle of the night. Made a self illuminating house number, and glued some strips to the sides of my meter box, so that people don't hit it in the dark.

I assume he is telling the truth, if not then I'll go with your theory... it doesn't appear that it's implausable however so I can see it being "real"

Atlas
27th September 2013, 15:01
You are too naive TargeT, or are you ? There is no patent, read the website FAQs again:

"How does it work?
Sorry, it is a trade secret. [...] For the PHD's or for the extremely curious google "Charge-Transfer Associated Photoluminescence Of Rare-Earths Doped Oxide Phosphors" by Abanti Nag."

Did you read the testimonials ? laughable.

http://foreverlight.com.au/testimonials/MWRC_Testimonial.pdf

Do not believe anything just because you want to.

Edit: for the story, Andrew Sutherland (who signed the testimonial above) was owner and ceo of Suthertech in 2011:


Suthertech is an IT company with a difference. Our specialisation is IT Management and Advocacy. We avoid selling IT products and prefer to remain independent from vendors. What we provide is our experience and knowledge in managing complete systems from the people, the hardware, the software and the paperwork of complete IT Departments. We are here to assist you in making the right choices in making those IT decisions that affect your company.

Running Information Technology Infrastructure is a lot more than just bringing in the hardware and software and hoping it all works and that your vendors will be there to help. It involves planning for the future, making sure what you have is enough and provides value to your company and staff. If you don't understand what it means to run Information Technology Infrastructure then we can help you.He used to sell his foreverlight panels in 2011 already: facebook.com/Suthertech-Technologies (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Suthertech-Technologies/101795963239898).

He is now involved in the coal industry and co-owner at Gulgong Sweet Delights: facebook.comGulgong-Sweet-Delights (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Gulgong-Sweet-Delights/385354981479277). His profile on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/andrew-sutherland (http://au.linkedin.com/pub/andrew-sutherland/4/b20/88)

TargeT
27th September 2013, 15:34
it was more of an intellectual exercise than anything else, the concept is interesting and discussing it brought http://www.trnmag.com/Stories/2002/052902/Crystal_turns_heat_to_light_052902.html to my attention via Bobd's post.

clearly what was described is possible, which is interesting, but not something I'd personally pursue, I kind of started to doubt the product in question when I read the methods of cutting.

either way, I don't think I ever stated "ITS REAL! ZOMG!" but thanks for the follow up checking, I can't see the link you posted but I'm sure it's related.

More interesting info:


Turning heat into power

A new kind of high-temperature photonic crystal could someday power everything from smartphones to spacecraft


A team of MIT researchers has developed a way of making a high-temperature version of a kind of materials called photonic crystals, using metals such as tungsten or tantalum. The new materials — which can operate at temperatures up to 1200 degrees Celsius — could find a wide variety of applications powering portable electronic devices, spacecraft to probe deep space, and new infrared light emitters that could be used as chemical detectors and sensors.

Compared to earlier attempts to make high-temperature photonic crystals, the new approach is “higher performance, simpler, robust and amenable to inexpensive large-scale production,” says Ivan Celanovic ScD ’06, senior author of a paper describing the work in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The paper was co-authored by MIT professors John Joannopoulos and Marin Soljačić, graduate students Yi Xiang Yeng and Walker Chen, affiliate Michael Ghebrebrhan and former postdoc Peter Bermel.

http://img.mit.edu/newsoffice/images/article_images/original/20120202170009-1.jpg
A microscope image of the tungsten photonic crystal structure reveals the precise uniform spacing of cavities formed in the material, which are tuned to specific wavelengths of light.


These new high-temperature, two-dimensional photonic crystals can be fabricated almost entirely using standard microfabrication techniques and existing equipment for manufacturing computer chips, says Celanovic, a research engineer at MIT’s Institute for Soldier Nanotechnologies.

While there are natural photonic crystals — such as opals, whose iridescent colors result from a layered structure with a scale comparable to wavelengths of visible light — the current work involved a nanoengineered material tailored for the infrared range. All photonic crystals have a lattice of one kind of material interspersed with open spaces or a complementary material, so that they selectively allow certain wavelengths of light to pass through while others are absorbed. When used as emitters, they can selectively radiate certain wavelengths while strongly suppressing others.

Photonic crystals that can operate at very high temperatures could open up a suite of potential applications, including devices for solar-thermal conversion or solar-chemical conversion, radioisotope-powered devices, hydrocarbon-powered generators or components to wring energy from waste heat at powerplants or industrial facilities. But there have been many obstacles to creating such materials: The high temperatures can lead to evaporation, diffusion, corrosion, cracking, melting or rapid chemical reactions of the crystals’ nanostructures. To overcome these challenges, the MIT team used computationally guided design to create a structure from high-purity tungsten, using a geometry specifically designed to avoid damage when the material is heated.

NASA has taken an interest in the research because of its potential to provide long-term power for deep-space missions that cannot rely on solar power. These missions typically use radioisotope thermal generators (RTGs), which harness the power of a small amount of radioactive material. For example, the new Curiosity rover scheduled to arrive at Mars this summer uses an RTG system; it will be able to operate continuously for many years, unlike solar-powered rovers that have to hunker down for the winter when solar power is insufficient.

Other potential applications include more efficient ways of powering portable electronic devices. Instead of batteries, these devices could run on thermophotovoltaic generators that produce electricity from heat that is chemically generated by microreactors, from a fuel such as butane. For a given weight and size, such systems could allow these devices to run up to 10 times longer than they do with existing batteries, Celanovic says.

Shawn Lin, a professor of physics at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute who specializes in future chip-making technology, says that research on thermal radiation at high temperatures “continues to challenge our scientific understanding of the various emission processes at sub-wavelength scales, and our technological capability.” Lin, who was not involved in this work, adds, “This particular 2-D tungsten photonic crystal is quite unique, as it is easier to fabricate and also very robust against high-temperature operation. This photonic-crystal design should find important application in solar-thermal energy-conversion systems.”

While it’s always hard to predict how long it will take for advances in basic science to lead to commercial products, Celanovic says he and his colleagues are already working on system integration and testing applications. There could be products based on this technology in as little as two years, he says, and most likely within five years.

In addition to producing power, the same photonic crystal can be used to produce precisely tuned wavelengths of infrared light. This could enable highly accurate spectroscopic analysis of materials and lead to sensitive chemical detectors, he says.

The research was partly supported by the Army Research Office through the Institute for Soldier Nanotechnologies, NASA and an MIT Energy Initiative seed grant, as well as by TeraGrid resources and the MIT S3TEC Energy Research Frontier Center of the U.S. Department of Energy.




http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/nanophotonics-0203.html

Atlas
27th September 2013, 15:46
clearly what was described is possible
How? Where? Who said that?



I kind of started to doubt the product in question when I read the methods of cutting.
Thank you.



More interesting info:
Turning heat into power
Off-topic.

Bob
27th September 2013, 18:15
TargeT and the group then, if the case is ForeverLight isn't valid any more, but the idea of thermo-electric or minute heat-to-electricity is applicable as a topic, should another thread be started and move on?

It seemed very plausible that the Luminol type of compound (probably some type of Luciferace plus oxygen plus heat) (chemical name: o-Aminophthaloyl hydrazide o-Aminophthalyl hydrazide 3-Aminophthalhydrazide 3-Aminophthalic hydrazide) ya its a mouthful, that is heat activated and stable could be possible.

About 40 years ago I did test out using Luminol as the photon converter plus the oxidizer, which generalized is the type of reactions that fireflies use to generate light and the concept behind the liquid light sticks..

That to find a way to use Heat to generate Light - stably activate an organic compound or a modification thereof sounds like a plausible method to have the product be real. I could imagine quite a few techniques to allow for heat to liberate sealed binary nano-bubbles containing the oxidant and photo-emitter. I would think though the reaction would not be self-healing or reversable.. It sounded plausible.

Atlas
27th September 2013, 18:51
Thank you Bobd.

http://www.uvpaqlite.com/uploads/8/1/3/8/8138604/3295567.jpg

http://www.uvpaqlite.com/uploads/8/1/3/8/8138604/1379950208.jpg

TargeT
27th September 2013, 19:05
TargeT and the group then, if the case is ForeverLight isn't valid any more, but the idea of thermo-electric or minute heat-to-electricity is applicable as a topic, should another thread be started and move on?

since this thread was broken out of another thread, I think we are still very on topic of taking heat and converting it to energy (light or otherwise) Buares seems to be a personal cantankerous fan of mine and I think his "off topic" comment was meant more to me personally than in the interest of the thread (I ignored it and I suggest you do likewise).



It seemed very plausible that the Luminol type of compound (probably some type of Luciferace plus oxygen plus heat) (chemical name: o-Aminophthaloyl hydrazide o-Aminophthalyl hydrazide 3-Aminophthalhydrazide 3-Aminophthalic hydrazide) ya its a mouthful, that is heat activated and stable could be possible.

About 40 years ago I did test out using Lluminol as the photon converter plus the oxidizer, which generalized is the type of reactions that fireflies use to generate light and the concept behind the liquid light sticks..

That to find a way to use Heat to generate Light - stably activate an organic compound or a modification thereof sounds like a plausible method to have the product be real. I could imagine quite a few techniques to allow for heat to liberate sealed binary nano-bubbles containing the oxidant and photo-emitter. I would think though the reaction would not be self-healing or reversable.. It sounded plausible.

converting one energy to another is a very common practice, it seems that ambient heat is just energy waiting for a conversion medium, since "heat" is just excited particles bouncing around... why not convert it to light, or electricity.. there are some metals that do this, but with a terrible efficiency from what I recall.

a direct conversion from heat to electricity is very attractive, as all our power generation styles now convert heat to movement and then to electricity at usually very low efficiency rates (power generators etc..)

if the original link is false (I have no idea where those pictures came from above..) its too bad, it seemed like an interesting product but just one product didn't hold the key to the idea.

I could use something like this at work (I work in server rooms):
http://foreverlight.com.au/common/images/foreverlight_product2_lightsoff.jpg

Atlas
27th September 2013, 19:33
Here you go:

UVMatlite
$34.95

http://www.uvpaqlite.com/uploads/8/1/3/8/8138604/1746624.jpg?180
Use it as a Gun Mat

http://www.uvpaqlite.com/uploads/8/1/3/8/8138604/7880257_orig.jpg

What is the UVMatlite?
The UVMatlite is a night light for your Home, RV, Tent, Trailer, or Boat. The Matlite contains special glow-in-the-dark crystals that absorb light to recharge. The Matlite also makes finding any items in the dark easy! When fully charged it will provide at least 8hours of functional light in a dark environment. The Matlite is made from a flexible material so you can bend it, wrap it around objects, and if dropped it will not crack or shatter.

How do I recharge it?
Recharge the Matlite by exposing it to another light source such as: sunlight, flash lights, flourescent bulbs, halogens, etc. You do NOT need to take it out into direct sunlight to recharge it, it will just absorb ambient light from its environment.

See www.uvpaqlite.com/uvmatlite.html (http://www.uvpaqlite.com/uvmatlite.html)

Still want to buy it $500 a piece ?

Bob
27th September 2013, 19:52
Hia Buares and the group..

Luminescent light using zero conventional energy.. OK, heat to light, maybe ambient heat to light, maybe background light to charge the device, then have it radiate for long periods of time throughout the nite.

Maybe if Shannow would jump in and talk a bit more on what was found with talking with the inventor - http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?63793-Luminescent-lighting-using-zero-conventional-energy&p=735322&viewfull=1#post735322

I have seen various plastics available that can do the phonon charging, and seen different pricing depending on the manufacturer. I have seen these in some injection molding companies up in Boulder Colorado (haven't been there since the storms and floods hit).

Shannow
28th September 2013, 00:23
John Adams is the inventor, and the bloke that I spoke to, and who did a presentation at my workplace.

http://www.superconsciousness.com/topics/science/introducing-foreverlight-panel

I have panels in my home, an expensive act of whimsey on my part, and as stated, I have cut slivers off it to mark the edges of the breakerboard on the side of my house where it protrudes into the path. I have sliced one up to make a luminous house number out the front...better half has a keyring, mine stolen in a burglary.

There is photoluminescence in the panels, as they are very bright when the lights go out, by design, and the green that's shown in the other stuff in this thread. Some hours into the night, the panels glow a more blue/green.

Or I could be making stuff up....

Shannow
28th September 2013, 01:04
John Adams' "story", as explained
Sailing in Sydney Harbour, and lost electrics, following lit landmarks navigated back to port, a couple of near misses from vessels that didn't see him. Decided to have something that didn't need a battery.

Developed a thermal light, using electronics, that was sufficient to read a map in dark, and at least show other vessels that somehtign was there.

Corrosion issues, so decided on another path...spent time studying how a Queensland groundworm has glowing blood, developed the foreverlight.

Three separate processes in the gear, heat from environment to "something" to visible light.

Increasing light output to heat input with each generation of upgrades.

Stated that to have a patent would be to tell how it was made/worked...would rather manufacture and run...and have the next generation available if someone DOES work it out.

Was looking at making the inefficient early ones more inefficient, as possible "radiant coolers"

rgray222
28th September 2013, 01:26
Most of of the time nature will show us the way!


Bio-Luminescent Tide - Vaadhoo, Maldives

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Lbgm1_vmdFU/UjjQz3-azXI/AAAAAAAAOzk/MLwJmCRMxUU/w829-h552-no/luminencentshore.jpg

Atlas
28th September 2013, 01:42
John Adams is real. He appears on TV here: foreverlight.com.au/media-television.php (http://www.foreverlight.com.au/media-television.php)

There's also a local newspaper article here:
http://www.foreverlight.com.au/common/pdf/mudgee_field_days_09.pdf
The newspaper says: "They would cost $150 for a quarter of a square metre".

And ABC reports the story here: blogs.abc.net.au/nsw/2009/04/shining-light-o (http://blogs.abc.net.au/nsw/2009/04/shining-light-o.html)

Shining light of innovation
07/04/2009 , 10:14 AM
by Justin Huntsdale

How good would it be to have a strong light source without the need for electricity, wires, batteries or any other source of power.

Mudgee inventor John Adams has created a new type of light that relies only on radiant heat or conducted heat, which it can even take from you.

Given this invention takes heat from its surrounds to create light, there is also a possible application as a cooling device.

"It's actually based on crystal technologies, very very microscopic crystals," John said. "Due to physics it actually does a conversion from various ambient energies."

According to John, the example he brought in to show us is just the tip of the iceberg, and he now has far brighter versions. Keep an eye out for John's invention.

http://blogs.abc.net.au/nsw/images/2009/04/06/dsc07211__1280x1280.jpg (http://blogs.abc.net.au/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2009/04/06/dsc07211__1280x1280.jpg)
Picture: Mornings presenter Dugald Saunders inspects John Adams' invention.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT: below is an alternative lighting technology developed recently and is not related with John Adams' invention (as Bobd pointed out in his post below)

December 3, 2012
Wake Forest University

The lighting, based on field-induced polymer electroluminescent (FIPEL) technology,

This new lighting solution is at least twice as efficient as compact fluorescent (CFL) bulbs and on par with LEDs, but these bulbs won’t shatter and contaminate a home like CFLs or emit a bluish light like LED counterparts.

http://news.wfu.edu/files/2012/12/20121126nanotech6625-460x260.jpg

The device is made of three layers of moldable white-emitting polymer blended with a small amount of nanomaterials that glow when stimulated to create bright and perfectly white light similar to the sunlight human eyes prefer.

However, it can be made in any color and any shape – from 2×4-foot sheets to replace office lighting to a bulb with Edison sockets to fit household lamps and light fixtures.

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Carroll’s group is the first to make a large-scale FIPEL that can replace current office lighting and is based on natural white light. Beyond office and home lighting, Carroll sees potential uses for large display lighting, from store marquees to signs on busses and subway cars.

TargeT
28th September 2013, 02:25
So Buares, nice 180 on this topic... I agree his website was apparently a bit out of date, I'm very interested in this product/concept, I wonder if this is just a semiconductor lattice coating, or if it permeates the material (plastic) entirely.

even if it is just upconverting (or most likely down converting) light out of the visible spectrum to visible light it's a very useful methodology.




This new lighting solution is at least twice as efficient as compact fluorescent (CFL) bulbs and on par with LEDs, but these bulbs won’t shatter and contaminate a home like CFLs or emit a bluish light like LED counterparts.


Yes, that is an interesting product, but not as interesting as taking ambient heat and converting it to electricity or light... those use electricity to work (though still very cool)

Atlas
28th September 2013, 02:57
Not 180 yet TargeT, the company does not exist anymore, the US distributor has vanished, we don't know who is behind the website, he may take your $500 and send you the $35 UVMatlite instead, and you won't even notice...

I'm also very interested in this technology.

Bob
28th September 2013, 04:34
just a FYI, FIPEL is not what "John" is supposed to have invented, based on the first post in the posting thread..

"Winston-Salem, NC--Scientists at Wake Forest University have developed a flicker-free, shatterproof alternative to the standard fluorescent tube for large-scale lighting: field-induced polymer electroluminescent (FIPEL) technology. " Wake Forest University physics professor David Carroll works with graduate student Greg Smith on FIPEL lighting technology (in the photograph above couple posts up, http://news.wfu.edu/files/2012/12/20121126nanotech6625-460x260.jpg)

There is no inventor John Adams in the list of presenters in the published paper. Nor shown as any inventor of FIPEL.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1566119912004831

Yonghua Chena, Gregory M. Smitha, Eamon Loughmanb, Yuan Lia, Wanyi Niea, David L. Carrolla, were the ones listed.

Seeing what Shannow wrote to reiterate, John Adams' development was based on an observation of a creature that generates light under certain conditions. From what I know that is then a type of luciferase reaction to oxygen in the presence of iron or copper (or some other metallic ion).. Our closest organic similarity to the "bug lite" concept is Luminol plus hydrogen peroxide plus iron compound. The result is short lived light, not continual light as would be needed in a panel. But there is no known (at least that I have ever heard of or can research) heat to light method using the organic luciferase reaction or Luminol oxidation reaction..

Atlas
28th September 2013, 05:19
Yes, FIPEL works with electricity, it's a quite recent alternative to conventional lighting, more ecological but still not "zero conventional energy". John Adams' heat to light panels don't glow that much but they don't need electricity, just heat...

Thank you Bobd for your article: Crystal turns heat to light (http://www.trnmag.com/Stories/2002/052902/Crystal_turns_heat_to_light_052902.html). The technology should be available by now.

778 neighbour of some guy
28th September 2013, 09:08
I checked their website, then the sales button for prices, and in America it directs to "Everlatinglight.com" which has not mention of such pannels, same in UK, etc.

I Wonder it this is a true story and if so, I can we get the prices? And where to buy? I would get a few for my house too..

Ok, just saw your post Target. Where did you get the information? Do you kow how many panels are needed for a decent lighting?

Here's where I'm seeing the price info:
http://foreverlight.com.au/products-foreverlight_panelgen2point3.php

I think these panels wouldn't be ideal for "decent lighting", more like enough light to see where you are walking, a "night light"... but again I have never seen these in person so I cannot really comment accurately.

Hm, not only that, I am also wondering about the colors of these lights, as I understand it, color and frequency of light influences biological systems in a particular manner, being exposed to it for a longer period of time might have some serious implications on your system/biorhythm, a small but not entirely unrelated example, the tv set, when I sit and watch tv for a couple of hours ( a movie or docu, whatever) I go bonkers because of the artificial light amongst other things, the same goes for sitting in front of a computer screen, same goes for a tablet or phone for that matter, or even office lighting when I am at work, drives me nuts, sorry if I drifted of topic here, but being somewhat careful with our sources of light might be in order, they could be like GMO's that screw up your system from an other angle of attack.

So fluorescent or not, energy consuming or not, organic or not, if we have come this far already, why not go all the way and develop a form of light that would be overall beneficial, meaning, cheap, done the right way, biological in nature, in the optimal spectrum for living beings in accordance with their natural rhythms. Or am I just talking trash here? In that case give me/us a nudge in the right direction, there must be tons of research already but I am no champ in digging it up and have a slight disadvantage in regard of the use of the English language in a search engine or even coming up with the correct terminology in another language.

I could be wrong here, but bioluminescence gives a squid or a fish a means of seeing what's around them, to communicate, to attract a mate or act as a lure for prey ( just some things I can come with from the top of my head), in all of these case it is important for the animal to be seen, but not from to far away if possible, because after all, everything takes part in the food chain, and they will be eaten if seen by the wrong dude( animal) who has the munchies, so there must be a very good reason in nature why bioluminescence does not give of very BRIGHT light, the only reason we know ( found out) was deep diving with a bright light on some unmanned probe with a camera on it ( it dark down there in most cases and at night in all cases), and behold, the glowing fish, squid, jellyfish pops up, their light is made especially, for their environment their purpose, and it suits them, but would it suit us, that's the question, can it be made/developed into something that is beneficial to us the RIGHT WAY.

Sorry for drifting off here, I just had some questions, don't know if they are actually valid, but there you go.

Atlas
28th September 2013, 10:44
their light is made especially, for their environment their purpose, and it suits them, but would it suit us, that's the question, can it be made/developed into something that is beneficial to us the RIGHT WAY.
Bobd has a very good insight on bioluminescence:


It seemed very plausible that the Luminol type of compound (probably some type of Luciferace plus oxygen plus heat) (chemical name: o-Aminophthaloyl hydrazide o-Aminophthalyl hydrazide 3-Aminophthalhydrazide 3-Aminophthalic hydrazide) ya its a mouthful, that is heat activated and stable could be possible.

About 40 years ago I did test out using Luminol as the photon converter plus the oxidizer, which generalized is the type of reactions that fireflies use to generate light and the concept behind the liquid light sticks..

That to find a way to use Heat to generate Light - stably activate an organic compound or a modification thereof sounds like a plausible method to have the product be real.

778 neighbour of some guy
28th September 2013, 11:17
their light is made especially, for their environment their purpose, and it suits them, but would it suit us, that's the question, can it be made/developed into something that is beneficial to us the RIGHT WAY.
Bobd has a very good insight on bioluminescence:


It seemed very plausible that the Luminol type of compound (probably some type of Luciferace plus oxygen plus heat) (chemical name: o-Aminophthaloyl hydrazide o-Aminophthalyl hydrazide 3-Aminophthalhydrazide 3-Aminophthalic hydrazide) ya its a mouthful, that is heat activated and stable could be possible.

About 40 years ago I did test out using Luminol as the photon converter plus the oxidizer, which generalized is the type of reactions that fireflies use to generate light and the concept behind the liquid light sticks..

That to find a way to use Heat to generate Light - stably activate an organic compound or a modification thereof sounds like a plausible method to have the product be real.

Uhuh I have read that, with beneficial I don't mean just the economics or the science as such, what I ask myself, if science does make it possible to make bioluminescence a viable option to be mass produced, is the light its self beneficial to us, when I look at the colors of the fluorescents and imagine myself being exposed to it for longer periods of day, say an indoors workday and after that the night at home, cozy on the couch, NO THANK YOU, I notice I become MUCH calmer with easy on the eyes natural candlelight for instance then with artificial electric lighting ( in any form, unless dimmed), bright light after dark disrupts your much needed day and night cycle/ biorhythm ( this rhythm has been established by nature its self), humans are not nocturnal beings ( ok ok party animals I understand if you disagree), but in general, we are not nocturnal, what is beneficial light for humans ( overall health, physical,) besides sunlight and can be cheaply mass produced and of an organic nature that is easy on the eyes at home and in the workplace, this is after all where most people spend most of their time.

Beneficial, sound, good natural food, light belongs in this very as well, its what is responsible for all surface growth, last time I checked I could not find any gills or fins on my body so could it be that surface dwellers like ourselves are in need of another form or light then the ocean dwellers, if this is indeed the case, could for example a bioluminescent form of easy on the eyes and overall beneficial kind of sunlight be created for us earth walkers.

778 neighbour of some guy
28th September 2013, 11:47
Here you go:

UVMatlite
$34.95

http://www.uvpaqlite.com/uploads/8/1/3/8/8138604/1746624.jpg?180
Use it as a Gun Mat

http://www.uvpaqlite.com/uploads/8/1/3/8/8138604/7880257_orig.jpg

What is the UVMatlite?
The UVMatlite is a night light for your Home, RV, Tent, Trailer, or Boat. The Matlite contains special glow-in-the-dark crystals that absorb light to recharge. The Matlite also makes finding any items in the dark easy! When fully charged it will provide at least 8hours of functional light in a dark environment. The Matlite is made from a flexible material so you can bend it, wrap it around objects, and if dropped it will not crack or shatter.

How do I recharge it?
Recharge the Matlite by exposing it to another light source such as: sunlight, flash lights, flourescent bulbs, halogens, etc. You do NOT need to take it out into direct sunlight to recharge it, it will just absorb ambient light from its environment.

See www.uvpaqlite.com/uvmatlite.html (http://www.uvpaqlite.com/uvmatlite.html)

Still want to buy it $500 a piece ?

Buares, no offense meant here, just the following, when I look at that mat, my mind screams to me, "Jesus ffing Christ, if I was forced I to look at that for a week I can already feel a brain tumor start developing because the color looks so artificial and toxic, licking that thing must be worse then eating 10 years of roundup crops, will I be safe with that thing in my house, what if my kid touches it, chews on it, should I keep it under the kitchen sink with all the rest of the chemicals, is that thing what killed Superman??".

Catch my drift?

Bob
28th September 2013, 17:18
778 ya isn't it yucky those types of colors talked about in those luminescent panels. The science tho is what the thread started with, that the bug-lite enzyme looked like it convert heat into light, something I have never heard was possible at LOW temperatures. SO it's more of a science topic, like gee can science take cows and give them spider silk genes and have them turn out spider silk thread in their milk.. Of course it can (weeeeoh, take a drink of that stuff eeeeeee)...

I think the group's questions have asked about the science, did John Adams find the way (what way we were trying to conjecture) to do something which sounds technically impossible?

As to your thoughts about the color of the light. I bet one could (with science) hook you up to a machine, look at your brain waves, emotional waves, muscle waves, sweat glands and show you different colors and when one was all done come up with the most pleasing soothing light that heals, fixes, supports. The less advanced technique is to go into walmart or home depot and look at the colored paint strips and paint your house with the right colors, and use sunlight or wide spectrum lighting to illuminate the paint. Same thing, just pick the level of science one wants, or live outside in a tee-pee. Or a log cabin with a candle or kerosene (heck lets use whale oil to be traditional) light..

It's just a measure of the right stewardship - I haven't met even ONE scientist who has a clue how to be a good steward and plan for one's emotional assistance, have you? Applied Science goes for the buck, nobody funds pure science for the benefit of the world these days, right? When alleged science is used to trick to deceive, then everyone looses..

The questions were about using zero conventional energy for lighting - and have luminescence. First who supposedly did it, then did he really, then if so how did he do it, and is there anything else out there that is luminescent that may illustrate what it is that John Adams was said to have accomplished.

If we don't have the answers we need to ask, if we beat down others for asking we accomplish nothing - if we ask, the look at how, then look at applications we beautifully expand in the consciousness allness a way to come up with solutions to all sorts of things.. I have found this time and time again, look at the overall, one's group, one's project - don't suppress reaching, don't suppress one trying to come up to speed. Try to guide one towards group ethics, towards planetary living.. With that in mind, the right questions tend to appear, almost miraculously cause one is looking at not only not just oneself but the rest of the big blue ball, get my drift?

Shannow
6th October 2013, 10:01
The inventor stated that he chose the colours so as not to upset night vision (IIRC, he left a lot of yellow out)...

Couple of data points...

Friday, took a sheet out of a cardboard box that had been unopened for nearly 18 months. In a pitch black room, it was quite dazzling (not reflective, readable)...same room, I took a slice that's been in my wallet for a few days, and it was black.

Piece in wallet was from messing around with the stuff at home. I could slice pieces off a main piece with my wet diamond tile cutter, and they worked. once slice I tried heating to soften the thermoplastic, which I was trying to mold into a ring...got "grainy" when soft and fractured. That piece doesn't "work"

Shannow
8th October 2013, 09:06
Last night, left the non-working sliver on the dining room table, and at 4:30 when I went to put the cat out, it was luminous blue/green. Adams said that they work best when they can "see" (radiate into) the night sky...put back in wallet.

Today, took it into the pitch black room (restroom), and no light. Ran it under hot water....glowed while it was hot, faded as it cooled. Back in wallet will try again tomorrow.