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tayer82
7th October 2013, 23:27
Gday Mate's!

I am from Australia and while I know that Oz has bent over for the US in most of our history i'm just not sure exactly how involved we are in many projects we know about. MKUltra, Alien cooperation, surveillance, testing and abductions on kids, fema camps etc...?

It doesn't seem right to me that a country would give land up for use by another country ie 'PineGap' and not get involved in all the devious behavior going on.

Australians are notoriously relaxed people in nature when it comes to any form of conspiracy, to the extend that a spaceship would land in the MSG football field and they would think it was a new Hollywood movie promotion. I really want to know what extent i need to worry about my country although I realise if the poo hits the fan in the US it will eventually come to our door.

Many thanks guys, i appreciate any thoughts and opinions. Tina :alien:

sheme
7th October 2013, 23:55
Lots of UG shelters is all I have heard- our winter is your summer so have a good one and welcome to avalon.

TigaHawk
8th October 2013, 01:20
I've actualy had relatives from the UK come over in winter and sit out in the back yard sunbaking!

Australia to me feels like it's just property to everyone else. Look at how much china have invested in buying up land, now india is coming in for natural resources, this place is like a goldmine of resources in both materials and land - and people/money -the way they justify ripping us off because "australians are willing to pay more!" (i think the piracy statistics from here say otherwise :P)

In a way it feels like whatever Australia was is deteriorating rapidly because of many different country's stepping in, taking land, trying to build up areas based on a specific culture (and trying to enforce that cultures standards in said area) and the fact that everything that was Australian owned - especially core infastructure, ie water company's, public transport, electricity etc - are being sold of to the highest bidder.

Definately feels like we're just a resource that everyone is pillaging.

Ellisa
8th October 2013, 01:22
It's just too difficult to get a really good conspiracy going in Oz--- not when there's the sun, and the surf, and the football and the beach and BBQs and beer-- I forgot wine and outdoor concerts, and the endless outback with its fierce blue sky. It gets to everyone here in the end! A sort of apathy. with no desire for plotting or angry revenge. Just relax, enjoy life and be glad we are a long way away from anyone else here (as PM Keating almost put it) on the "bottom" of the world!

OK it may be silly ----- but we seem to be getting away with it!

panopticon
8th October 2013, 02:06
Gday Mate's!

I am from Australia and while I know that Oz has bent over for the US in most of our history i'm just not sure exactly how involved we are in many projects we know about. MKUltra, Alien cooperation, surveillance, testing and abductions on kids, fema camps etc...?

It doesn't seem right to me that a country would give land up for use by another country ie 'PineGap' and not get involved in all the devious behavior going on.

Australians are notoriously relaxed people in nature when it comes to any form of conspiracy, to the extend that a spaceship would land in the MSG football field and they would think it was a new Hollywood movie promotion. I really want to know what extent i need to worry about my country although I realise if the poo hits the fan in the US it will eventually come to our door.

Many thanks guys, i appreciate any thoughts and opinions. Tina :alien:

G'day Tina,

Welcome to Avalon.
Have you searched the forum to see what comes up?

Depends where your interests lie I suppose.

Take, for example the recent revelations (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-08/australia-prepared-briefing-on-prism-spying-program/5004290) that 2 months before Snowden revealed what he knew the Oz government was briefed on PRISM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)).

Then there's the theory that it was US-Mossad-Australian co-operation in an operation in Tasmania that led to tighter restrictions on gun ownership in Australia (the Port Arthur massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre_(Australia)), 1996, in which it is alleged that Martin Bryant, a person with an IQ of 66 and little skill or previous experience with firearms, managed to kill 35 people, with a high level of accuracy, and injure a further 23).

How about the numerous connections between right wing think tanks and their major funding sources (mining magnates). Ol' Gina is a chip off Lang's asbestos block (Lang Hancock knowingly placed workers and their families at risk in and around his asbestos mines and was a supporter of eugenics [he thought secret sterilisation of indigenous Australians (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ9LFX6NDuk) was a good idea]) and finances all sorts of think tanks and lobby groups (the recent election showed this with her supporting Joyce (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-09/barnaby-says-gina-rinehart-gave-24502c000-to-campaign/4945450) in his campaign and the new WA Senator for the Sports Party (www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/sports-partys-likely-senator-wayne-dropulich-admits-a-lack-of-nonsports-policies-20130909-2tg1k.html) working as an engineer at one of her mines). The members of these Australian Think Tanks/lobby groups have also moved off-shore (just like a lot of other people) and become important faceless and not so faceless people in the world.

There are more examples like these than most people think and don't forget the healthy distrust Australians have of politicians and for that matter any person in a position of authority. This varies from State to State, and between urban and rural areas, but in general Australians don't trust what someone says and the more authority they have the less they are trusted. Remember, John Howard so badly lost the trust of the people that he was the second Australian Prime Minister to lose his own seat at an election (Bruce was the first in 1929 (http://primeministers.naa.gov.au/primeministers/bruce/elections.aspx)). That gets forgotten in the re-write of history that is going on under Abbott and co. Why did he lose their trust? Because he was a liar (http://www.awu.net.au/news/truth-overboard-35-lies-told-john-howard-and-counting). Remember the Howard Coalition comment about core and non-core promises? Sounds similar to Rumsfeld's (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_known_knowns) 'known knowns and unknown knowns' doesn't it. Obfuscate to confuse.

Hope this helps.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

Hazel
8th October 2013, 02:49
Great gear panopticon..

you nailed the Australian cultural psyche and gave some great pointer alerts to what many of us are becoming more and more sus' of in this beautiful Great Southern land..

And lookout... this Nation of relaxed (yet not suckers for bull****) are a hardy, generous, hands-on, multiculturally blessed crew/not to be understimated... who come 'Armegeddon', will meet the challenges united and stout heartedly. You only have to look at how we rally and perform at times of natural disasters at home and abroad.
And another welcome to Avalon from me Tina, stick around.. after a while you will become atuned at weeding out the 'true' from the 'false flags'.. this place gives you that ability by osmosis after a while... Go Girl.
'Go Aussie - Oi, Oi, Oi' .... :cool:

mosquito
8th October 2013, 03:13
In a way it feels like whatever Australia was is deteriorating rapidly .....

Agreed and I think the same is true of everywhere else !

As a Pom and an anarchist, I always admired the Aussies for their rebellious, anti-authoritarian streak. But it looks to me like it's all a myth (much like the British "fair play old boy" idea) and the reality is that the Australian government has in recent years been just as quick as the UK to implement ever more draconian laws and to make itself warm and snug inside the American rectum.

Norman recently posted this ......

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?64015-Totally-off-all-topics-but-a-great-couple-of-stories.......&p=739395#post739395http://

A couple of interviews from Oz, one with a renowned forger, one with Ronnie Biggs's ex-wife. They are great listening and a sad reminder that these days the freedom to even talk to people with such colourful histories, let alone broadcast the interviews, has almost certainly been lost. For our own safety of course.

I hope you can get your country back to being what it once was, and what the world needs !!

Atlantean Avatar
8th October 2013, 03:15
Perhaps if we lay off the fluoride for a while we will be a little less laid back when it comes to organising ourselves to take action about what matters. After nearly 40 years of fluoridation here in South Australia most people I know can't focus on being outraged at anything for more than half an hour. Then they get bored and go back to watching the tellie. I wonder sometimes if people down here will even pay attention when the SHTF.

KiwiElf
8th October 2013, 03:40
Think NZ is in there somewhere too - especially considering John Keys is chairing the APEC meeting in Obama's absence.

Hazel
8th October 2013, 03:43
All l can say in response is that the insiders are the ones to know.. and consequently, although I'm not privvy to what happens at Pine Gap or the covert op's of our Gov't in general, I can vouch for the 'ordinary' citizen here in Australia. Therefore, I'll reiterate.. most while cynical and 'over' political spin, have radar for lies and know that the soft life is a privelidge but a spoiler. Radicalism has been largely squeezed out in Universities due to the Gov't defunding student unions, which has been the situation for the last decade. But I assure you mariposesafe, the gut reflexes in response to wrong doing and 'wankdom' in everyday people and situations thrives. Call it anti-authoritarianism, radicalism, or whatever you may that spirit remains pervasive here.

The boat people operatic saga, has played out shamefully here and sucked-in all those prone to fear of lack.. which is the most worrying signal about cultural moral slide.. and we ARE aware that the international community is highly critical of this. This construct of fear mongering had 'us' buy in a conservative Gov't recently.. but already many are regreting it.. we are still a young country in process of testing its boundaries, geographically and in the arena of National identity.

Adolescence has its phase of identity crisis, played out in confused actions, anti-authoritarianism, lazyness and messy, smelly rooms/politics... but this country when observed from the inside is emergent and becoming an adult player in the world. So doubters beware, we are a bourgening force to be reckoned with.. alongside our Asian neighbours, who we are steadfastly Mastering our associations with.

panopticon
8th October 2013, 03:49
Great gear panopticon..

you nailed the Australian cultural psyche and gave some great pointer alerts to what many of us are becoming more and more sus' of in this beautiful Great Southern land..

And lookout... this Nation of relaxed (yet not suckers for bull****) are a hardy, generous, hands-on, multiculturally blessed crew/not to be understimated... who come 'Armegeddon', will meet the challenges united and stout heartedly. You only have to look at how we rally and perform at times of natural disasters at home and abroad.
And another welcome to Avalon from me Tina, stick around.. after a while you will become atuned at weeding out the 'true' from the 'false flags'.. this place gives you that ability by osmosis after a while... Go Girl.
'Go Aussie - Oi, Oi, Oi' .... :cool:

One regrettable aspect of the Australian psyche, in my opinion, is the lack of social memory.
Take, for example, the recent success of the Palmer United Party (PUP).

The party is owned by mining magnate Clive Palmer (for the non-Australians reading).
Clive portrays himself as the eccentric lovable larrikin which sits well within the Australian cultural stereotype.
Who can forget this infamous twerking session (believe me I've tried...):

SDiuyAmZZ5k
Yet it's often forgotten that Clive is a very shrewd businessman and was the Campaign manager and media spokesman for former Queensland Premier Joh Bjelke-Petersen. He was directly involved in Joh's unsuccessful campaign to move to federal parliament and has been part of some of the largest mining deals in recent Australian history.

He is a very clever man, very media savvy and as a result has managed to use the stereotype in his favour. There's nothing wrong with that, he's just not what he portrays himself to be (there again from my experience people rarely are).

BTW this isn't an attack @ Clive (before he tracks me down and accuses me of being a Chinese spy), just a way of illustrating how there is a tendency in Oz for people to take things on face value if they feel they can identify with it.
-- Pan

Hazel
8th October 2013, 04:03
Agreed by a margin panopticon... but then the proofe's in the Magic Pudding of shifting tastes. I wager that the amnesia you speak of in the 'Aussie' identity that you speak of is as much a facade, as it is in Clives' opus operandum. If Pauline Hanson hadn't been exposed and shot down in flames I may have had your concerns also, but naaaa.. even the popular press sattirise his way of being as a loose mask.

Time will tell...

panopticon
8th October 2013, 04:10
As a Pom and an anarchist, I always admired the Aussies for their rebellious, anti-authoritarian streak. But it looks to me like it's all a myth (much like the British "fair play old boy" idea) and the reality is that the Australian government has in recent years been just as quick as the UK to implement ever more draconian laws and to make itself warm and snug inside the American rectum.


As a fellow anarchist I can put your mind a rest.
There is still a strong anti-authoritarian tradition in Australia that has nothing to do with our Government or politicians.

-- Pan

panopticon
8th October 2013, 04:16
Agreed by a margin panopticon... but then the proofe's in the Magic Pudding of shifting tastes. I wager that the amnesia you speak of in the 'Aussie' identity that you speak of is as much a facade, as it is in Clives' opus operandum. If Pauline Hanson hadn't been exposed and shot down in flames I may have had your concerns also, but naaaa.. even the popular press sattirise his way of being as a loose mask.

Time will tell...

I dunno recap1,

3 senate seats kind of says otherwise (even if it was a protest against all the other igits)...

Hazel
8th October 2013, 04:18
Right-on again Pan.. re the psyche beyond politics

thats exactly what l drowned myself in words attempting to explain.. crikey!

As for Clives parties 3 seats in the senate.. bumbs on seats representing dwindeling resources in a renegade state of itinerate workers (voters) I say.

But then your perceptions may be correct..
bloody well hope not though!

panopticon
8th October 2013, 04:32
What do the Aussie and NZ members think of the overt nationalism that has emerged over the last 15 years?
In Australia the agenda was pushed by Howard (not sure about NZ) and comes out at sporting events and public holidays.
This is a new thing and I'm pretty sure it's designed as a control/power mechanism to increase the control/power of the Nation-State...
-- Pan

Anchor
8th October 2013, 04:43
a spaceship would land in the MSG football field and they would think it was a new Hollywood movie promotion.

Or offer them beer.

(UK native who escaped to Australia for good)

KiwiElf
8th October 2013, 04:56
Well, as a Kiwi, I think we're both in the same boat really.

John Keys appears to be moving up in the ranks of the elite, the fact that Keys is now chairing the APEC meeting in Obama's absence, is "interesting" to say the least.

The (wrongly accused) Fonterra scare has done us some damage and I hope those responsible are held accountable for scare mongering when it turns out, no such problem with the product existed, but we have yet to convince China of that (it's our biggest export); Key's has just pushed through a highly controversial spying law despite the fact most Kiwi's are against it, with close connections to the NSA and on par with the UK, USA and Canada's spying laws - in other words, they can do what they like with immunity. As it turns out, they've been doing it illegally for years and getting away with it anyway.

Our govt is also putting up major state-owned enterprises for partial sale (49 %) including AIr NZ, most power companies etc, again, most Kiwi's are against it. We are no more a democracy than the USA. :(

On a positive note, (apparently) our national debt is down to around 4 billion it was announced last night (less than half of what it was). It would seem that financially we're in reasonably good shape.

On a completely weird topic, this wee Elf sees UFO's overflying us at high altitude and mostly heading Nth & South (Antarctica?) every night (with one regular low & slow-flying exception which often flies directly over Auckland, mysteriously fading out and disappearing before it reaches the most populated areas of the city). In fact I logged 13 in the space of 1 hr several months ago - that's more "traffic" than regular aircraft in the same airspace, and our weather appears to be going as crazy as everyone elses, massive storms (one over us now as I write) which have caused substantial damage in the last few weeks.

- that's Kiwi News in a nutshell. ;)

Ellisa
8th October 2013, 06:24
You may be right pan, but I still think that there is not the will for too much disagreement, and very little support for violence of any sort. Sure every now and then an incident will rouse Aussies and we will make a fuss, but when it's over we are all friends again.

I do think that the nasty, nascent nationalism awoken by Howard reminded us that as a nation we too can be prejudiced, but I do feel that the feelings have cooled down, and quite a few of us feel a bit ashamed of ourselves. We will have to be vigilant though. The news today is that PM Abbott has been sending himself all over the place to see his friends at our (ie taxes) expense. The wriggling is amazing, led by that pillar of respectability Mr Peter Reith! However, whist that level of misbehaviour may be wrong, here we also seem to find it amusing-- in a grim sort of way. But we will have to be alert to distractions when the explanations are asked for.

I wasn't born in Australia but I have lived here for most of my adult life, and it is this really quite good natured attitude in the face of the appalling behaviour of others that I find so --- nice! That, and the apathy, and a reluctance to believe badly of others. I know some awful things happen, other countries sometimes upset us and we even seem to be losing our edge at sport, but I feel Australia still believes in a fair go for all. And I think that is good. And we should not underestimate the influence of good weather, sunshine, good and plentiful food and a strong culture of helping each other. We have all of these.

Shannow
8th October 2013, 09:34
Tina,
Oz is full of conspiracies....the dismissal for starters.

When I was a kid, all I wanted to be was a gunsmith, Barry Unsworth was state Premier, and I knew at that time that wasn't a career to follow if I wanted to retire. While at uni, he came to talk about how evil the people of NSW were, when he had a clear direction to make the state gun free (he was invited to talk by Opus Dei, who operate out of one of our major universities)...he re-iterated that there would be no gun regulation until there was a massacre in Tasmania.

I was travelling the day of the massacre, and all I could think (and I wasn't into conspiracies at THAT time), and all I could say to my partner was that this HAD to be a set-up...then all the asshattery about witnesses saying that long blonde hair wasn't the gunman, they weren't called to testify as they didn't want to drag them through that all over again....etc....etc.

I've seen a couple in my own personal life, with old blokes in black suits and baphomet lapel pins closing ranks, and tearing us apart to protect one of themselves.

Fluoride is defintiely part of it...

But the biggest is kids in their early 20s getting half million dollar home loans, because "they will never be cheaper than they are today", then they are beholden to the system, cannot withdraw their labour, become vicious ladder climbers....Police block a major highway for a week, pulling over every vehicle "Papers please", and it's just a fact of life that "you need to get over"

WE, as a country, are pretty well screwed if we want another Eureka Stockade or somesuch.

Hazel
8th October 2013, 12:19
Good stuff Shannow.. a raw and truthful expose'

'the sum of it all'.. in many ways

If any doubters re the 'true grit' nature of many Australians, were here observing / then you are the are the sure fire hero of the day!

p.s.. the vapid / move over.. wry grin

Nanoo Nanoo
8th October 2013, 12:31
Inside us , our countries , our lives all the way down into our homes and beds and further down into our thoughts and feelings and deeper still into our soul where is it written that you must listen to the rules set upon you ? in australia out of thousands of speed camera devices only 3 have been torched in almost 20 years ! talk about apathy ! before you know it they will have them in your homes so they can watch you eat sugar coated plastic pellets.

if you are living life by anothers will, you are not your own person.. your freedom is not a house, 2 cars , a big tv set , 2.4 kids and a dog called "jack". The only freedom you need to express is your sovreignty and to live as free beings and ignore the rules , make it up as you go along , who cares if you have a criminal record .. who cares if your credit rating is zero.. who really cares ? its all thin air , smoke and mirrors .. when you take what is yours , thats when all this banter about leaders and bankers will fade into a tap dripping off in the distance.

all we do is get married , have kids , hope for the best ! when are we going to do something that dosent revolve around survival or self edification or asking permission ?

when you get up and do what ever it is you want each day then thats the day you get your freedom.

aspirations to better accomplishments

noconformism

see if you got it in you to do it ?

enjoy

N

etheric underground
8th October 2013, 12:35
seek and you shall find...... Like most countries we are governed by the same 13 families.... australia is intertwined with all aspects of shady behaviour.
The fact that we are relaxed and easy going is a fantastic way to manipulate.....the lone gunman in tasmania that disarmed australia is one example.
try googling alien bases on earth...you might get a shock to see there are quite a few here in oz.
The fact that john howards family is intertwined with the bush lizards....all nasty and all hidden under the table.

Hazel
8th October 2013, 15:07
Crikey Mikey... etheric

prick us out of blinkered awake why don't you

mosquito
9th October 2013, 02:56
Thanks for the reassurance on the Ozzie character all, I'm pleased to hear it !!!

tayer82
11th October 2013, 03:46
Wow, thank you so much for all your thoughts, opinions and extensive knowledge of our history. To be honest I know more about American politics than my own country, which has now made me think I need to spend some time on google catching up on the guts of it.

It's true we are a laid back, caring country that doesn't take **** from our leaders however I worry how much our country's history is disinformation and true. The ridicule for talking about aliens seems worse here because of our nature and so when it comes to conspiracy theories it tends to not have much of a following. Thanks tina

bluestflame
11th October 2013, 04:56
maybe they're setting up australia as a "shared resource", a safe haven , with so many multicultural fingers in the pie no nation would bomb it

ks4ever
11th October 2013, 06:12
Why do you think the U.S. put a battalion in Darwin? They are protecting their assets in this country. We have many secret bases including a pod of ten nuclear missile silos left over from the cold war, a joint antigravity research centre, and much, much, more.