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ATok
21st October 2013, 12:44
After self-exploration of my life and what should it be, I do believe that our core-beliefs, that which we "know" are those in charge of our physical reality.

And then I ask my self, what will be the difference if I do believe it or not? Mostly I find that it will affect just the mood of my day, happy, sad, hopeful, magical etc..

From one source to another I was led to Bashar, Bashar (Channeled by Darryl Annka) gave me a bounce about my beliefs, in a way that felt empowering, Bashar talks a lot about the fact that we are the creators of our physical reality, "You see it when you believe it" he often says. When he asked how to believe to see the change he replies with: You need to feel, behave and think like you do believe in it( "Fake it till you make it" - they teach me in business), and it is true for you. Physical reality is just a mirror for your persona(Emotions-Beliefs-Thoughts), so when you act in a certain way the mirror as an reflective object will have to obey the change and reflect as you show it. The change is within, even if the mirror won't reflect your smile doesn't mean you ain't smile."

It is really motivating words and ideas that makes you feel like: Oh, now I can live the way I dream of"

But after some real life experience with those ideas and beliefs in my head, I became skeptical, because no matter what you believe there are certain things that won't change. Since kid I always felt excited about the idea of "para-normal"\un-natural powers, something was foggy when others talked about it and it felt like we ain't told the whole truth about it, deep inside of me a voice kept whispering me that it's all normal but my core-disbelief in it, separates me from the experience of it.

So truly, this is my passion in life, this what gives me the butterflies, tingles the child I am, our super-natural powers as a human-beings.

I can remember at the pick of my skepticism of Bashar, a friend advised me to read the book of George Kavvasilas - Our Universal Journey.

I was shocked, felt like someone just shot my only red balloon I had that day from the amusement park, I was overwhelmed by emotions and thoughts, felt like a waking up back to reality from an amazing dream. And still, after reconsidering what I took from Bashar, he changed something in me, kind of a passive positive feeling.

My mom always told me as a kid "Those who search, will always find" just to keep me off her with all the questions of where is my toys.. But I grew up to believe in it, it makes a perfect sense to me that one who search will find because there is no other outcome, of course he can give up so he no longer search, but somehow if you keep searching you will find one way or another, not judging what you found and how.

I know I will find what Im seeking, but till that moment occurs, I will do whatever comes to my mind to speed it up.

And I believe I have the question I search answer to, is how do you change a believe to knowingness? Obviously if you do not believe in gravitation, it won't change non because when you leave this object in the air, it will fall down.
So I came to conclusion that all that we know is kind of rules, rules made not by us, because we don't know how they work, we don't know how to change them, and who invented them any way?

Some say that our unconscious\subconscious is the one in charge of the hologram we call physical reality, and in some cases it's true, using hypnosis you can convince someone that his hand is glued to the body and no matter what he can't separate it, and it works, you make the brain to believe in it so it becomes what he knows, even tough the conscious will challenge it.

My question is what happens if you tell the hypnosis subject to feel him self as an energy, free, powerful energy vibrating in a specific frequency which differentiates it from all the energy around it. And by knowing it and feeling it and the energy around he can realize that he have the choice and the power to move trough the energy around him as freely as he choose to, in other words he can fly, using only his body, focus and will, because we are all energy, and the energy he is so powerful that at this state, the law of gravitation isn't strong enough to do the decision.

Will the subject be able to fly?

sushil soni
21st October 2013, 14:03
This is interesting. I would rather say do not believe in anything. What is there to believe? Drop everything, every belief, every notions. Whatever you have learnt, unlearn it. You are only seeing. You are not doing anything. You do not perform any karma you never did ever perform any karma whatsoever. Since you are only seeing, you do not even experience. You are Witness of all that is happening around you. But are you really a Witness? What do you see? Do you see your wife sitting in front of you? Do you really see your children?

Am I really seeing the person who is speaking to me, who is trying to get my attention? Do I really see? Do we see the objects as they are or as we think they are? In actuality, we see them through our thinking, our impressions, our memories, our identifications and our concepts. We are always in bondage of something that is exterior to us. So, we see everything through this bondage, through this screen that we have built with the help of society. We have fixed this screen is between us and the objects. Unless we break this screen, we will not be able to see, to become Witness, to become the Seer. We see nothing in its purity, in its totality, in its wholeness. We must unlearn all that we have learnt since our coming to this earth. We must shun all impressions, forget all experiences, drop all the identifications, concepts, ideologies, books, treatises, holy books and all that we have gathered before we can become a Witness, the real Seer.

As Self or pure Consciousness, you are the One, self-luminous Seer of what is around you. You are a Witness and not the Doer of any karma. You are, in fact, not performing any karma at all and you are not experiencing the results of your past and present actions. You are part of this Oneness and not separate from One. Those who think that they perform and experience, are in bondage and not seeing This.

It is the body that performs. If you are eating food, it is your body that is eating food and you are Witnessing your body eating food. You are not eating food, you are only witnessing. Think of your body as separate from you, not a part of your being. Remember, if your body was part of you, then you would take it with you wherever you would go after your so-called death. Now then, since the body is not yours, you have to think of it as something else, something not belonging to you. Now, if you do not abide in your body, then in which realm do you abide? Or do you abide at all? Or do you abide and do not abide at the same time?

Notice that all that you have read above is happening in the mind. Your bondage or your liberation is happening in your mind. No such event is taking place outside of you. That outside does not get affected by your bondage or liberation. That outside is functioning in its own way. Rather, that outside is existing on its own. So, we must understand that it is through the mind alone that you have to tell yourself that you are neither of any elements that you think you actually are made up of. You have to deny yourself of what you are. Earth, space, water, fire, air these elements have condensed at a point in time-space continuum to give you a form. And this form does not belong to you. Your body is not your body, your breath is not your breath, your eyes are not your eyes, and the fire that burns up the food in you is not your fire. In fact, nothing is yours. If anything was yours, then you must be able to possess it for eternity. The truth is that you cannot even possess this body that you mistakenly think is yours, for eternity, what to speak of the shirt that you wear or the house that you live in. Everything is already in the mouth of death. Once you have realized this simple fact then what remains? Only YOU remain, as a Witness, as Consciousness, as Awareness. You are a witness of all that which happens around you, of all the objects that appear to arise in front of you. You are this Consciousness which is Aware that It is Witnessing. Know this Consciousness as Atman or Brahman or Awareness or Mind or Self or whatever you want to call it now, it makes no difference because nothing affects or changes you. Everything stirs but you as Consciousness do not. You are now to remain steadfast in your centre, unmoving, still and calm. This is the state one has to achieve, this is the state one is striving for throughout the life. In fact, it would not be out of place here to say that the purpose of life is to become aware, and till such time that you are firmly settled in Awareness, you are only in a state of Becoming.

ATok
21st October 2013, 15:08
Sushil, I believe to understand your point, and because of it I believe it isn't the time for me to drop all experience and just to witness, although I tried it for some time, it felt peaceful in a way, but the lack of all the emotions created different state which I can return at any time.

You saying that my body isn't mine and the food I'm eating is a witnessing, although it is true, we created connection between the two so it is feels like one and the same, moreover and it comes back to my question, the idea of us as souls, consciousness, mind or whatever, is still a belief. On one hand I do can experience my self as a soul or at least non-physical being via OBE's, but on the other hand even while in the astral planes, you are witnessing.

I do believe that the fact Im here and now, physical(I can see, touch, smell, taste, hear and feel) means to experience physicality, because if it would be to become aware of that Im not physical(Which I Believe it is) so I would finish my lesson and pass on wouldn't I?

And again it looks like that me thinking that I believe something(by behaving like it's true) will change something physically, not working that well, when it goes beyond "normal".
It is important to understand that you can truly achieve everything that is "normal" by believing it and acting\behaving upon it, combining this two dimension of thought and material will give you a result, and its all clear and understood, and because of it boring for me.
Why is this "normal" definition invented not by me (as long as I remember) will limit you if you believe in it or if you don't.

How come that we are, human beings, God-like creature who supposed to be all knowing and all able, are so limited even when you are aware of the fact that you are limited?

Its kind of loud expression of frustration, maybe impatient, but mostly, reality.

Sushil you said what is there to be achieved, kind of aim, but you said none about how for one to achieve it.
And I find it a lot lately, I even aware of it in everybody I interact with, it begins because of Me, because of what I believe, what I know, what I want and what there is. After considering what George believes about our pineal gland and other manipulative implants we have, he suggested to follow the heart, and this is it, growing up basing on reason and logic, and instructions, you waking up where everything you knew may be a lie, but everything you want cannot be achieved.

They say to you follow your heart even though I can barely hear it sitting in a peaceful and quite place, they say ask your guide, higher self, god, for help and advice, but the answers are blank. All I know is that past is an illusion, a story we make to cover our current identity, the same as the future, truly we are only experiencing now, and only..

And this now, so many questions that no one is answering..

And the biggest one that combine all of them is again, how do I truly believe in something, how do I change a belief to knowingness, how do I create or change what I already know?

Jake
21st October 2013, 15:24
Very interesting points,. By the way,, WELCOME TO AVALON, everyone!! If I may add a bit to the discussion. Converting an 'unknown' into a 'known' can many times be dependent on ones willingness to 'embrace' a new known/truth. It will take some inward journeying. Most people do not even know WHAT it is that they believe, and may have difficulty KNOWING anything. To dig deep inside, and determine what it is that you believe, and why,, will help folks to embrace a new truth, once uncovered. Some people can't differentiate between a 'belief' and a 'known'. Also,, many of us are born into this world with a deep knowledge and/or understanding of things, without a single memory of how they may 'know' it.

One must be willing to shed layers, and disregard 'beliefs' as they are exposed by a truth, or a 'known'. It has everything to do with experience. To make something a 'known', one must experience it for ones-self. Being humble and willing to except truth is important. And,, once a truth is uncovered,,, beware of it. Do not cling to a 'known' just because it is 'known'. A larger truth may be uncovered, and smaller beliefs will need to be shed. Consider the following parable by Richard Bach



Once there lived a village of creatures along the bottom of a great crystal river. The current of the river swept silently over them all -- young and old, rich and poor, good and evil -- the current going its own way, knowing only its own crystal self.
Each creature in its own manner clung tightly to the twigs and rocks of the river bottom, for clinging was their way of life, and resisting the current was what each had learned from birth.

But one creature said at last, "I am tired of clinging. Though I cannot see it with my eyes, I trust that the current knows where it is going. I shall let go, and let it take me where it will. Clinging, I shall die of boredom."

The other creatures laughed and said, "Fool! Let go, and that current you worship will throw you tumbled and smashed against the rocks, and you will die quicker than boredom!"

But the one heeded them not, and taking a breath did let go, and at once was tumbled and smashed by the current across the rocks.

Yet in time, as the creature refused to cling again, the current lifted him free from the bottom, and he was bruised and hurt no more.

And the creatures downstream, to whom he was a stranger, cried, "See a miracle! A creature like ourselves, yet he flies! See the messiah, come to save us all!"

And the one carried in the current said, "I am no more messiah than you. The river delights to lift us free, if only we dare let go. Our true work is this voyage, this adventure."

But they cried the more, "Savior!" all the while clinging to the rocks, and when they looked again he was gone, and they were left alone making legends of a savior.

-- from Illusions by Richard Bach


You must must must must must must trust yourself.... And stand in that trust.... With POWER...
Jake.

CD7
21st October 2013, 15:32
My question is what happens if you tell the hypnosis subject to feel him self as an energy, free, powerful energy vibrating in a specific frequency which differentiates it from all the energy around it. And by knowing it and feeling it and the energy around he can realize that he have the choice and the power to move trough the energy around him as freely as he choose to, in other words he can fly, using only his body, focus and will, because we are all energy, and the energy he is so powerful that at this state, the law of gravitation isn't strong enough to do the decision.

Will the subject be able to fly?


Well I have also heard Bashar say tht this is a game we are all in and gravity is one of the 'ground rules' we all agreed on before entering the game...but then he said sometimes the rules are broken. So, yes perhaps at some point 'someone' will be able to fly! :)

I like Bashar a lot...he speaks much wisdom about human behavior

Creating and 'making' a life has become more and more observable for me as time has gone by...as well as very POSSIBLE! It IS AS IF one's life is a canvas and YOU are the creator of your life's "piece" Now it doesn't always come out precisely as you thought--sometimes better...sometimes a bit different then invisioned. But to me lifes rules work very much like an analogy to art/artist. The more we practice, the more precise are the results

I would love to see us all doing/creating the impossible....

The only issue I have is memory.....I would like to have full recall memory. And perhaps remembering is apart of us having the ability to do more with energy
[/I]

Shezbeth
21st October 2013, 15:36
The term belief implies faith and conviction, knowing implies reason and intellect.

In my opinion (all that follows) they never agree, and should never be subject to one another.

The heart can lead one in the right direction, if one is too mind-oriented, but can lead one into naivete if not kept in check.

The mind can lead in the right direction, if one is too heart-sensitive, but can lead one into dogmatism.

I find that possessing a little of both - but a preponderance of neither - to be most conducive..

ulli
21st October 2013, 15:43
Paranoia is one belief I would not like to become a "knowing".
It is important to be selective here.

Jake
21st October 2013, 15:47
My question is what happens if you tell the hypnosis subject to feel him self as an energy, free, powerful energy vibrating in a specific frequency which differentiates it from all the energy around it. And by knowing it and feeling it and the energy around he can realize that he have the choice and the power to move trough the energy around him as freely as he choose to, in other words he can fly, using only his body, focus and will, because we are all energy, and the energy he is so powerful that at this state, the law of gravitation isn't strong enough to do the decision.

Will the subject be able to fly?


Well I have also heard Bashar say tht this is a game we are all in and gravity is one of the 'ground rules' we all agreed on before entering the game...but then he said sometimes the rules are broken. So, yes perhaps at some point 'someone' will be able to fly! :)

I like Bashar a lot...he speaks much wisdom about human behavior

Creating and 'making' a life has become more and more observable for me as time has gone by...as well as very POSSIBLE! It IS AS IF one's life is a canvas and YOU are the creator of your life's "piece" Now it doesn't always come out precisely as you thought--sometimes better...sometimes a bit different then invisioned. But to me lifes rules work very much like an analogy to art/artist. The more we practice, the more precise are the results

I would love to see us all doing/creating the impossible....

The only issue I have is memory.....I would like to have full recall memory. And perhaps remembering is apart of us having the ability to do more with energy
[/I]

Well put. Bravo! :) Yes, recovering memories, is priceless. Being able to embrace them when they come is as equally important. :) Throughout our energy bodies are 'memory fields', and a capacity to instantly connect to 'all that is', with regard your experiences. Most knowledge exists OUTSIDE the realm of human comprehension. ,, Therefore most memories of that knowledge will be suppressed from out human belief systems. Peoples experiences will be different. We are waking up! :) :) The manifestation and creation of reality is happening right in front of us. Amazing, if one lets ones self see it. Again, it is about personal experience. Objective vs Subjective.

Experiments with random number generators have shown that 'random' becomes 'ordered' if you insert 'consciousness' into the equation. This reality is like that!! Except, instead of just numbers, we are dealing with vast fields of 'potentials',, and vast fields of creation and experience. But it is all just potentials(random) until it is animated by consciousness.

Dangit,, I'm wondering a bit,,, Sorry ATok... :o

Love to all,
Jake.

sirdipswitch
21st October 2013, 15:55
Very interesting points,. By the way,, WELCOME TO AVALON, everyone!! If I may add a bit to the discussion. Converting an 'unknown' into a 'known' can many times be dependent on ones willingness to 'embrace' a new known/truth. It will take some inward journeying. Most people do not even know WHAT it is that they believe, and may have difficulty KNOWING anything. To dig deep inside, and determine what it is that you believe, and why,, will help folks to embrace a new truth, once uncovered. Some people can't differentiate between a 'belief' and a 'known'. Also,, many of us are born into this world with a deep knowledge and/or understanding of things, without a single memory of how they may 'know' it.

One must be willing to shed layers, and disregard 'beliefs' as they are exposed by a truth, or a 'known'. It has everything to do with experience. To make something a 'known', one must experience it for ones-self. Being humble and willing to except truth is important. And,, once a truth is uncovered,,, beware of it. Do not cling to a 'known' just because it is 'known'. A larger truth may be uncovered, and smaller beliefs will need to be shed. Consider the following parable by Richard Bach



Once there lived a village of creatures along the bottom of a great crystal river. The current of the river swept silently over them all -- young and old, rich and poor, good and evil -- the current going its own way, knowing only its own crystal self.
Each creature in its own manner clung tightly to the twigs and rocks of the river bottom, for clinging was their way of life, and resisting the current was what each had learned from birth.

But one creature said at last, "I am tired of clinging. Though I cannot see it with my eyes, I trust that the current knows where it is going. I shall let go, and let it take me where it will. Clinging, I shall die of boredom."

The other creatures laughed and said, "Fool! Let go, and that current you worship will throw you tumbled and smashed against the rocks, and you will die quicker than boredom!"

But the one heeded them not, and taking a breath did let go, and at once was tumbled and smashed by the current across the rocks.

Yet in time, as the creature refused to cling again, the current lifted him free from the bottom, and he was bruised and hurt no more.

And the creatures downstream, to whom he was a stranger, cried, "See a miracle! A creature like ourselves, yet he flies! See the messiah, come to save us all!"

And the one carried in the current said, "I am no more messiah than you. The river delights to lift us free, if only we dare let go. Our true work is this voyage, this adventure."

But they cried the more, "Savior!" all the while clinging to the rocks, and when they looked again he was gone, and they were left alone making legends of a savior.

-- from Illusions by Richard Bach


You must must must must must must trust yourself.... And stand in that trust.... With POWER...
Jake.


Excellent Jake!!

Oh yah, and you've probly figured this one out too...

I DID LET GO! yep

Ain't looked back yet. ccc.:wizard:

sushil soni
21st October 2013, 16:01
Attention: ATok

If I may add here, although a lot has been written by members here since your reply to my reply, I still maintain that all these replies are in the realm of Illusion. What I am trying to say is that there is no reality and, in fact, all that there is in Real. Try to understand a simple formula if I may call it a formula: There is no Reality but all that there is, is Real. Therefore, there is neither Real nor Nonreal - and both Real and Nonreal do not exist. Belief is a straw that you hold onto to keep your mind functional in this Illusion. When you drop all beliefs, then you are free. This freedom gives you immense happiness, a bliss that remains forever with you. Belief comes from attachment to external objects. Freedom comes from detachment. Remember, mind is your enemy as well as friend. And belief is in the mind and nowhere else. So, free yourself from the cobwebs of all thoughts that arise in your mind. It is very simple. All that is needed is the shift.

Jake
22nd October 2013, 00:02
Attention: ATok

If I may add here, although a lot has been written by members here since your reply to my reply, I still maintain that all these replies are in the realm of Illusion. What I am trying to say is that there is no reality and, in fact, all that there is in Real. Try to understand a simple formula if I may call it a formula: There is no Reality but all that there is, is Real. Therefore, there is neither Real nor Nonreal - and both Real and Nonreal do not exist. Belief is a straw that you hold onto to keep your mind functional in this Illusion. When you drop all beliefs, then you are free. This freedom gives you immense happiness, a bliss that remains forever with you. Belief comes from attachment to external objects. Freedom comes from detachment. Remember, mind is your enemy as well as friend. And belief is in the mind and nowhere else. So, free yourself from the cobwebs of all thoughts that arise in your mind. It is very simple. All that is needed is the shift.

Hello, sushil soni,,, :) If I may,,, Everything IS in the realm of illusion, if you venture to believe. A KNOWN is different. It seems nonsensical to me that one would argue that NOTHING is real... For the one that argues it,,, is most certainly not real, and therefore does not exist in the realm of truth!! It is very simple, indeed. How silly for you to brush aside our comments, saying that they exist only in the realm of illusion, yet maintain that YOUR comment should be what is REAL (even though you maintain that nothing is real) ??? Did I miss something??

Notice that insisting that nothing is real,,, does not inspire much conversation... :) Here, at Avalon,,, We CHAMPION open discussion.

Listen closely,, One can choose to NOT exist. Clearly,,, we are not them!!! Prove to me that you do NOT exist,, and I will shut up about it. Until then, a more candid discussion about what is a BELIEF vs what is a KNOWN is underway... We are all searching for truth,,, sitting back and insisting that nothing is real may be valid,, but not real helpful. :)

No offense brother,,, but I EXIST!!! this discussion exists,,, WE exist... We created all of this for a reason!!! And that REASON exists too!!! All of physicality is living consciousness,,, and THAT exists too...

The grin on your face,, knowing that I have a lot to learn,,, exists too!!! :)

(the fact that I have a lot to learn exists too)

Love to you..
Jake.

P.S.,, to answer the OPs question... Yes, I fly. :)

ATok
22nd October 2013, 07:38
It will take some inward journeying. Most people do not even know WHAT it is that they believe, and may have difficulty KNOWING anything. To dig deep inside, and determine what it is that you believe, and why

And this is the question: How do you get the access to this depth, without the help of external stimulation?

After my research I come to know two methods:

Hypnosis - Enables you to quiet the conscious mind to gain a free entry to the unconscious, yes it is kind of a holy grail and you have so many options that consciously you don't. But now again, does one will be able to do the core changes to be able to fly around? And if not, it means you need to get a level higher to super-conscious (as a soul), or maybe even supra-conscious(as an oversoul), and still with all this wonderful opportunities, you need someone who will do the job of the conscious mind, which is rational and logical thinking.
And I'm asking again, is it possible that we were made incomplete, in a sense that we always will need someone else, for all the big and pro found changes? I don't buy it.

Astral Projection - Myself, I had few of them, mostly because trying to meditate for the first times.. Amazing journey, resting from your conscious mind and flying around just as a free soul enabled me to gain a lot of understanding and proportion, but the time I was experiencing I didn't knew what was happening exactly, though its kind of a meditation side effects, so I couldn't realize all the options available to me at the moment, later on when I start reading and understanding the physics of the phenomena I couldn't reach the state once again..
Trying different approaches and techniques wasn't successful, although again, this state is reachable easily with help of another.

CD7 - I believe there is people that already doing the impossible, otherwise I do not believe I could perceive the idea at all. As a collective consciousness, as co-creators we are aware at some level of others and their growth. I do believe that everything I can think about is real and possible and probably already exist somewhere at some shape or form, and again, my specific physical reality built from some rules yet for me to know in order to manifest beliefs. And btw, read "Our Universal Journey" maybe it will give you another perspective about information.


The term belief implies faith and conviction, knowing implies reason and intellect.
Okay, it most likely we use our own definition for the words we say, conviction involving in it reason and intellect doesn't it? Moreover, you must have conviction about knowing something, otherwise its a mystery. So I'm not sure that belief require a conviction, it is require faith, hope, imagination etc, but if you can prove it to be real, it becomes a knowing. I see it that way: You can say you do not believe in gravity, but even though you decided to believe in it won't change it, so you just know it no matter what, and it creates a separation, no power, no freedom about big aspects of your life.


Paranoia is one belief I would not like to become a "knowing".
The beauty about beliefs is that it's not outside of you. You choose them not like the knowing.
You don't need special prof for it, everything you believe in is changeable and under your willing power, so the moment you chose not to believe in something, you change, the realization of the fact that it is a belief and you choose to believe in it, gives you the power and the decision to choose differently.


Does it matter if its real or not? I came to conclusion that if it ain't help me, courage me, teaches me, makes me happy, so maybe its not relevant for the moment. My goal is to master what there is, what I Know, after Im done with it, I will keep going :) So there is always a mystery, fairytale feeling..

Shushil, it is possible, all you do is breathing, the moment a thought coming you concentrate back on breathing, with practice you become thoughtless and its really refreshing and relaxing, there is a bliss and happiness, but what happens for what you want? All you do at this state is to witness what there-is, of course the situation will change at some point, but Im tired with trusting "life" to teach me and engage me, Ive done it, and my Ego, my conscious mind wants something else to be experienced, and the moment I have this "I want" my thoughts back to work :)

deridan
22nd October 2013, 08:26
..there is a concept of late I've been 'playing with', the actual spiritual mechanism behind this.
belief(pure image) - physical (now)[knowingness]
if the 3rd is here, the 4th is that pure image as modified by our failures[in time], and 5th,theHeavenly thing
our AURA is what connects bt. 3rd and 5th.
a damaged aura?...well work on the perception of your failures.

came across a book which looked at ancient mythology, and the precautions people made to cleanse things which were not of their 'auric-field'{speak of evil spirits etc.*}... that is a person draws out from their own spiritualism and creates there own auric field. Well, the emphasis is on that integrity.u build, you don't have it modified for u unaware. {*if emissaries came to a king with gifts and to be heard on matters, in the Khan and Turkic courts, cleansings would be done}

then too, there is an unknowability. was it Graham H, who spoke of people travelling to the upward astral realms with DMT and remapping, or simply seeing clearly certain spir-structures,,which otherwise we wouldhave thought was pure brilliance. D.Cannon speaks of knowing when subjects were on psychedelics, merely if they had an illuminating experience without being able to recall specifics.
Some things come in feelings, before the actual linear cause & effects are known in mind

even this feeling.... ,,,,,well lets say, the mechanism lies with channeling thru and maintaining th e au ric-field

Carmen
22nd October 2013, 18:16
Belief is conjecture. It becomes 'knowing' through experience. That is one way. Knowing is also 'seeing' the future, and is beyond reason and intellect which is in the 3d polarity realm. To me knowing is a soul connection, with out doubt. Belief still has an element of doubt about it. Knowing precludes doubt.

Shezbeth
22nd October 2013, 18:32
Okay, it most likely we use our own definition for the words we say, conviction involving in it reason and intellect doesn't it? Moreover, you must have conviction about knowing something, otherwise its a mystery. So I'm not sure that belief require a conviction, it is require faith, hope, imagination etc, but if you can prove it to be real, it becomes a knowing. I see it that way: You can say you do not believe in gravity, but even though you decided to believe in it won't change it, so you just know it no matter what, and it creates a separation, no power, no freedom about big aspects of your life.

In this case my definitions are straight from the dictionary which - though it has inherent flaws - is also the benchmark of proper use of terminology for the english language. That's not my belief, that's unfortunately what the overwhelming majority uses. On multiple occassions I've defeated several defintions that are inconsistent/lacking with the words but no one wants to listen. Curse you Merriam Webster!! The definition of the word definition fails to recognize the limitation of one's point of observation.

I suggest that the collective dream we experience is co-created; by the awareness experiencing and by the awareness(es) observing. We therefore have to be aware of our own contributions - what we project into the field so to speak - as what to the self is known, but which to the observer is belief.

GloriousPoetry
22nd October 2013, 23:49
ATok

The three most profound experiences that revealed themselves to me were never of a linear process....point being that when I have experienced a knowing it came straight from an unexpected place.....perhaps from a higher aspect of myself that connects to a higher frequency in our universe.....all in all it left me speechless and with no logical reasoning. My mind or linear thinking could not wrap itself around the experience....you just know....

1. A few years ago my brother who passed away manifested something through a boyfriend of mine.....my boyfriend was used as a messenger....he did not know my brother nor did he know his name.....the object had my brother's name on it and it came in the form of his favorite song...
2. My Kundalini experience....4 months of seeing and feeling things that are not seen or felt with 3D vision and faculities...
3. Meeting a man who I immediately recognized from another world....he had the same daunting look on his face when he met me......beyond this world....

ATok
23rd October 2013, 11:44
a damaged aura?...well work on the perception of your failures.

Failures? It's an interesting concept which I do not believe to exist, the only reason for it to be is to create fear, and fear creates negative energy.
I believe I was created perfect as everybody else, there is no failures or mistakes in creation, how come we do "mistakes" if we are perfect? Well this is the point, only when you judge a situation to be a mistake, it will be, otherwise it just something that happened, think about it.

What people judge to be failure I see as a lesson, as an opportunity for growth and expansion, I see the positive side of it. It's an attitude I take with me in every aspect of my life. And this is a Belief I have, that I do have the power to choose my feelings and mood by the judging of my life, if I do put any expectation on something, what are my definitions etc, but again.. I have no interest in that, it feels to me normal and obvious, I want to understand what is not obvious, what is not "normal".

A lot have been said here so far, some have a view point about what it is believe and knowingness and that the process for a belief to become knowingness is to experience it, conviction. How do you experience something you believe in, that isn't normal for the society around you?

Lets take the example of flight, I see it that way, I believe that everything that is made up from Atoms, is an energy including me, I believe that the difference between me and other energy is the frequency this energy vibrates on, I believe that energy is strong enough to push and move trough the energy around it freely as it choose, so gravity isn't an obstacle here but the control of your own energy. If you control your own energy and understand and aware of the energy around you there shouldn't be any problems to learn to fly and all the other psychic abilities we posses.

How do you learn to work and recognize your own energy to the point that you consciously control it?



I thank you each and every one of you for the gift of sharing, and being, my unconditional love for you all :)

Kalamos
23rd October 2013, 21:50
..........

ATok
24th October 2013, 07:46
Calamus, thank you :)

But =P, it is something I need to believe in don't I? I spent sometime in this state, and Im still there for some portions, I remember asking for so long for help and nothing occurred, so I tried so more, and still nothing, so I kept trying and nothing, so I came back from this long-long meditative-observer state and the first thing I had in mind, is to research every think I want, because I understood that there is some ultimate truth, but because of it I can create my own truth and live by it(how most of us do), but the creation of your own truth will take you far from the ultimate truth.

So I came to believe that my beliefs are shaping my reality, meaning that if I do believe in something, I will behave that way, for example I have the believe that Im God, so at the beginning I couldn't even tell it to no one because I wasn't strong enough in my belief, but I kept saying it to myself, with time information, insights and understandings came by to approve my belief, so now I can easily say it in public, and have a good explanation how it is possible :)

I see beliefs as road paths we take in our life, when you choose to turn to a specific road that will lead you somewhere, you ain't getting there right away, you need to walk a little bit, but the further you walk you see more signs of the destination. So in life, its infinite number of parallel realities and all we do is to shuffle them according to our beliefs, with each action and though we choosing another picture of the infinite possibilities, observe what there is and continue on, like in a movie, you have the machine that run the films upon the projector, this is my mind, and you have the films, separated pictures that with motion creates the feeling of movement - possible realities.
Each time the example of some kind of invention coming to my mind.. Lets take the light, at the beginning we knew fire, but then one day someone believed that he can create something else, all he had was a belief, nothing more. So with time he kept his belief and events occurred that led him closer to his belief until finely he could realize it physically and now, it is something we know.

Violet
24th October 2013, 08:11
This is interesting. I would rather say do not believe in anything. What is there to believe? Drop everything, every belief, every notions. Whatever you have learnt, unlearn it. You are only seeing. You are not doing anything. You do not perform any karma you never did ever perform any karma whatsoever. Since you are only seeing, you do not even experience. You are Witness of all that is happening around you. But are you really a Witness? What do you see? Do you see your wife sitting in front of you? Do you really see your children?

Am I really seeing the person who is speaking to me, who is trying to get my attention? Do I really see? Do we see the objects as they are or as we think they are? In actuality, we see them through our thinking, our impressions, our memories, our identifications and our concepts. We are always in bondage of something that is exterior to us. So, we see everything through this bondage, through this screen that we have built with the help of society. We have fixed this screen is between us and the objects. Unless we break this screen, we will not be able to see, to become Witness, to become the Seer. We see nothing in its purity, in its totality, in its wholeness. We must unlearn all that we have learnt since our coming to this earth. We must shun all impressions, forget all experiences, drop all the identifications, concepts, ideologies, books, treatises, holy books and all that we have gathered before we can become a Witness, the real Seer.

As Self or pure Consciousness, you are the One, self-luminous Seer of what is around you. You are a Witness and not the Doer of any karma. You are, in fact, not performing any karma at all and you are not experiencing the results of your past and present actions. You are part of this Oneness and not separate from One. Those who think that they perform and experience, are in bondage and not seeing This.

It is the body that performs. If you are eating food, it is your body that is eating food and you are Witnessing your body eating food. You are not eating food, you are only witnessing. Think of your body as separate from you, not a part of your being. Remember, if your body was part of you, then you would take it with you wherever you would go after your so-called death. Now then, since the body is not yours, you have to think of it as something else, something not belonging to you. Now, if you do not abide in your body, then in which realm do you abide? Or do you abide at all? Or do you abide and do not abide at the same time?

Notice that all that you have read above is happening in the mind. Your bondage or your liberation is happening in your mind. No such event is taking place outside of you. That outside does not get affected by your bondage or liberation. That outside is functioning in its own way. Rather, that outside is existing on its own. So, we must understand that it is through the mind alone that you have to tell yourself that you are neither of any elements that you think you actually are made up of. You have to deny yourself of what you are. Earth, space, water, fire, air these elements have condensed at a point in time-space continuum to give you a form. And this form does not belong to you. Your body is not your body, your breath is not your breath, your eyes are not your eyes, and the fire that burns up the food in you is not your fire. In fact, nothing is yours. If anything was yours, then you must be able to possess it for eternity. The truth is that you cannot even possess this body that you mistakenly think is yours, for eternity, what to speak of the shirt that you wear or the house that you live in. Everything is already in the mouth of death. Once you have realized this simple fact then what remains? Only YOU remain, as a Witness, as Consciousness, as Awareness. You are a witness of all that which happens around you, of all the objects that appear to arise in front of you. You are this Consciousness which is Aware that It is Witnessing. Know this Consciousness as Atman or Brahman or Awareness or Mind or Self or whatever you want to call it now, it makes no difference because nothing affects or changes you. Everything stirs but you as Consciousness do not. You are now to remain steadfast in your centre, unmoving, still and calm. This is the state one has to achieve, this is the state one is striving for throughout the life. In fact, it would not be out of place here to say that the purpose of life is to become aware, and till such time that you are firmly settled in Awareness, you are only in a state of Becoming.

Hi Sushil

I recognise the awareness and witnessing experience. However, it is not clear to me why we should detach ourselves so much from our bodies. Why did we get it if the goal is to pretend it's not really there?

markpierre
24th October 2013, 11:38
Calamus, thank you :)

But =P, it is something I need to believe in don't I? I spent sometime in this state, and Im still there for some portions, I remember asking for so long for help and nothing occurred, so I tried so more, and still nothing, so I kept trying and nothing, so I came back from this long-long meditative-observer state and the first thing I had in mind, is to research every think I want, because I understood that there is some ultimate truth, but because of it I can create my own truth and live by it(how most of us do), but the creation of your own truth will take you far from the ultimate truth.

So I came to believe that my beliefs are shaping my reality, meaning that if I do believe in something, I will behave that way, for example I have the believe that Im God, so at the beginning I couldn't even tell it to no one because I wasn't strong enough in my belief, but I kept saying it to myself, with time information, insights and understandings came by to approve my belief, so now I can easily say it in public, and have a good explanation how it is possible :)

I see beliefs as road paths we take in our life, when you choose to turn to a specific road that will lead you somewhere, you ain't getting there right away, you need to walk a little bit, but the further you walk you see more signs of the destination. So in life, its infinite number of parallel realities and all we do is to shuffle them according to our beliefs, with each action and though we choosing another picture of the infinite possibilities, observe what there is and continue on, like in a movie, you have the machine that run the films upon the projector, this is my mind, and you have the films, separated pictures that with motion creates the feeling of movement - possible realities.
Each time the example of some kind of invention coming to my mind.. Lets take the light, at the beginning we knew fire, but then one day someone believed that he can create something else, all he had was a belief, nothing more. So with time he kept his belief and events occurred that led him closer to his belief until finely he could realize it physically and now, it is something we know.

That's really good. most people still just want to make their beliefs real.
Knowing you're in God is the ultimate. Do you feel that? Does it rely on a belief? It wouldn't need approval, there's too much joy.

'Knowingness' doesn't believe things. It doesn't need to.

Beliefs aren't some valuable thing that evolve into knowing. It's just what you believe. It's the antithesis. You're right, they lead you there,
as they change.
Funny how everything works so well together. You don't manage your own state of mind. It manages you. You just notice it.
If your beliefs are causing conflict in any way, (even needing to defend them) you might have a look at why you believe them.

When you've forgotten everything you believe, you'll 'know'. How do you do it? Somehow you give up. You stop fighting.
You find yourself feeling happily present. Maybe occasionally think 'what was that?'
What's pure consciousness? Empty or full?

greybeard
24th October 2013, 11:58
There is enormous freedom in not having to be right.
Enlightened teachers say that all belief systems, concepts must go.
Why? Because there is so much personally invested in being right.
Being right automatically makes the other wrong.
Enlightenment is non-duality.
Duality requires opposites like right and wrong.

The paradox is that one can have an opinion, but there is no emotional charge behind it.
There is no egoistic reaction if the opinion is found to be incorrect.

The enlightened have a Knowingness that does not need words or explanation.
I know that I am male but I don't have to keep reminding myself or verbalising it.
Or rather, to be more accurate, I am in a male body.
I know "I am"
The knowing I am is not dependant on anything separate or external.
The knowing just is.

Chris

ATok
24th October 2013, 14:53
That's really good. most people still just want to make their beliefs real.
Well, I do want my beliefs come true, otherwise why do I have them? :)


'Knowingness' doesn't believe things. It doesn't need to.
Beliefs aren't some valuable thing that evolve into knowing. It's just what you believe. It's the antithesis. You're right, they lead you there,
as they change.
What's pure consciousness? Empty or full?
Exactly, Knowingness is God, beliefs are the paths to God. So no matter what you believe, one way or another you will reach God, because there is no other destiny.

I believe the question is, What is it Consciousness? :)


There is enormous freedom in not having to be right.
Enlightened teachers say that all belief systems, concepts must go.
Why? Because there is so much personally invested in being right.
Being right automatically makes the other wrong.
Enlightenment is non-duality.
Duality requires opposites like right and wrong.
Chris

I don't know who those teachers are, but as all my explanations above, beliefs are part of our life want it or not.
Of course you can go in a state of a rock and just witness what happening around ya, but this idea do not excites me, and no matter who will say that this is the only way to God or whatever, do not concern me :)
Enlightened one should understand that it is the Judgmental aspect of you, and the Expectation you create who's starting all the conflicts. When you cease to judge yourself(or others, as you wish:)) you don't have any emotional baggage attached to anything, because only when you judge situation to be positive or negative you get the emotion that you define to this judge.

markpierre
24th October 2013, 17:48
Well, I do want my beliefs come true, otherwise why do I have them? :)

Desire.

I believe the question is, What is it Consciousness? :)

You. Without desire.

Kalamos
24th October 2013, 22:28
..........

rgray222
25th October 2013, 01:11
I grew up with a sign above my bedroom door that made me think every day of my life. It simply read.............

Anything the mind can conceive the body can achieve

To this day I believe that anything is possible