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dianna
30th October 2013, 21:35
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In this revealing book, Bernard Schweizer looks at men and women who do not question God's existence, but deny that He is merciful, competent, or good. Sifting through a wide range of literary and historical works, Schweizer finds that people hate God for a variety of reasons. Some are motivated by social injustice, human suffering, or natural catastrophes that God does not prevent. Some blame God for their personal tragedies. Schweizer concludes that, despite their blasphemous thoughts, these people tend to be creative and moral individuals, and include such literary lights as Friedrich Nietzsche, Mark Twain, Zora Neale Hurston, Rebecca West, Elie Wiesel, and Philip Pullman. Schweizer shows that literature is a fertile ground for God haters. Many authors, who dare not voice their negative attitude to God openly, turn to fiction to give vent to it. Indeed, Schweizer provides many new and startling readings of literary masterpieces, highlighting the undercurrent of hatred for God. Moreover, by probing the deeper mainsprings that cause sensible, rational, and moral beings to turn against God, Schweizer offers answers to some of the most vexing questions that beset human relationships with the divine.


What is Misotheism?



Pious people have a tendency to praise God for what is good in the world but to shield God from blame when things go wrong. “Things happen for a reason” is the default position that many take up when faced with the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune (especially when others are undergoing the suffering). Misotheists take another road: they tend to accept God rather grudgingly as the Lord of the universe, but they come down on him rather hard when misery, sickness, crime, and war strike. But why bother to blaspheme against a God that is not praiseworthy? Why not simply conclude from the outrageous “acts of God” that he does not exist? Isn’t misotheism at bottom devoid of logic?

Well, misotheism does have an internal logic, based on the belief that the world doesn’t reflect the doings of an all-wise, benevolent, powerful, and omnipresent creator God–therefore, the God who created such a flawed world and does nothing to correct its imperfection must be indifferent, incompetent, or plainly malevolent. This internal logic does not take into consideration that the degree of chaos, pain, and injustice on this earth may well be a sign that there is no God to begin with.

In many ways, atheists have it much easier because they do not labor under the paradox that requires them to reconcile belief in God with absolute moral revulsion against the higher being. Atheists are not faced with the painful prospect of having to struggle against a millenia-old theistic tradition that requires the believer to worship a deity that is silent and never shows itself, except in ways that could be construed as wishful thinking, hallucination, or make-believe. Where the misotheist is burdened with the conviction that God is man’s enemy, the atheist just stands back and laughs at the moral-theological contortions of the misotheist; and he looks with bemusement at the acts of faith among “true” believers. When the atheist becomes angry, his anger is directed against the institutionalized, ecclesiastical manifestations of religious belief. An atheist cannot muster true hatred of God since it is pointless to hate something that doesn’t exist.

Misotheism in History

Pullquote: Although perhaps a minor tradition in terms of sheer numbers, misotheism plays a significant part in the history of ideas and in literature.
By comparison, misotheists represent a far darker, tormented, and deeply subversive strain of God-thinking. And it is a tradition of religious non-conformism that has remained largely in the shadows—until, that is, I decided to shine the spotlight on it in Hating God: The Untold Story of Misotheism. Although perhaps a minor tradition in terms of sheer numbers, misotheism plays a significant part in the history of ideas and in literature. In my book, I trace the origins of misotheism back to the Book of Job, and from there I see it raise its head occasionally as in Epicureanism, in Milton, in Deism, in Utilitarianism, and especially in Anarchism.

The philosophical anarchists of the nineteenth century even rate a separate sub-type of God-hatred—what I identify as political misotheism. Political misotheists (including Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, Michael Bakunin, and Peter Kropotkin) rave against God for some of the same reasons that led them to denounce other forms of centralized authority such as governmental tyranny, heartless bureaucracy, and the dictates of the market. Contrary to pious Tea Party libertarians, who also want to reduce government to a minimum while maintaining strong religious ties, the anarchists simply went one step further and sought to abolish not only centralized government but centralized religious institutions as well. And just as they wanted to eliminate the industrial boss and let a collective of workers’ syndicates run matters of public safety, social security, trade, and education, so they wanted to eliminate the celestial boss, God, and thereby eliminate the ultimate fount of (patriarchal) authority. These political misotheists are now more or less an extinct species, just as anarchism’s relevance has dwindled in the political debates of our own day.

Classification

Pullquote: After all, there is very little chance that anybody will actually lay a hand on a God, literally speaking, and therefore fiction becomes the principal arena in which to hunt down and dispatch God.

More significant to the story I tell in Hating God are the other two types of misotheists: the agonistic and absolute misotheists. Under absolute misotheism, I understand enemies of God who seek to “kill” God, if only through the power of human imagination and with the weapon of the pen. Literature has seen quite a few manifestations of such deicidal God-hatred, from Nietzsche’s Thus Spake Zarathustra, to Algernon Swinburne’s poetry, to Peter Shaffer’s deranged worshippers, to Philip Pullman’s adolescent crusaders against “the Authority” in His Dark Materials. This type of misotheist is engaged in an iconoclastic strife to banish the image of God for good, and he will enlist the powers of fictional invention to do the work. After all, there is very little chance that anybody will actually lay a hand on a God, literally speaking, and therefore fiction becomes the principal arena in which to hunt down and dispatch God.

The third type of misotheist, and the one that constitutes the most tortuous specimen of God-hater is the agonistic misotheist. Like a jilted lover, he is gravely disappointed by the object of his worship but still hopes that the fault might be on his side and that the relationship could be set on a new footing. The agonistic misotheist is, figuratively speaking, “agonizing” over his hatred of God, trying to invent excuses for God’s bad behavior yet circling back again and again to the frustrating understanding that God just is not what he is cracked up to be. Some great literature has come out of this struggle with the hatred of God: Zora Neale Hurston’s Their Eyes Were Watching God, Elie Wiesel’s The Trial of God, or Rebecca West’s The Return of the Soldier are overshadowed by this dark, tormenting struggle with the realization that God is (probably) evil.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unreasonablefaith/2011/04/misotheism-part-i/

Hazel
30th October 2013, 22:02
:lalala:Misotheism is Existential scapegoating of sorts then

Shezbeth
30th October 2013, 22:53
The purported explanation of misotheism makes more rational sense to me than devout theism.

I hypothesize that 'God' and 'the Devil' are the same entity; Wearing different 'masks' and playing both sides.

Crazy Louie
31st October 2013, 11:30
KJV Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

I think if people want to hate god its a waste of energy - they would be better off with deism.
gods love is somewhat beyond our comprehension besides glimpses that we get from the
shadows of clarity from time to time. our love and hate is what we created here

I see no value in hating anything because I did not get
my way - if anything at ground zero in my spirit it just makes me sad -
and I think its pretty fair to say a lot of us have pitched a fit towards god more than once
and he just stood there shuffling his feet.

I can pray that a cup of coffee appears right now next to
my hand and its made just right - then I can sit here all day waiting for that prayer to be answered
or I can get up and make it myself and thank god that I had the money to buy the stuff to make the
coffee just right. what is more productive to me as a human?


I guess if hating god brings meaning to someones life the results are on them
Clearly its more productive to my spirit to not hate god even if I do wonder why
so many animals have to die - he gave us domain over them and look what we do
my own personal pain there is out of 600 pitbulls only one finds a forever home
599 are killed. and if any of you have ever had a pit you know how loving they can
be but because they have been branded no one wants to give them a chance.

we probably all have things that bother us about god - and maybe the so called
bunch of people who reportedly say "its god will" and those kind of things
is not really that big a number if everyone told the truth about how they really
feel at times.



God respects no one.
Deuteronomy 10:17
For the Lord your God ... regardeth not persons.

2 Chronicles 19:7
For there is no iniquity with the Lord our God, nor respect of persons.

Acts 10:34
God is no respecter of persons.

Romans 2:11
For there is no respect of persons with God.

Galatians 2:6
God accepteth no man's person.

Ephesians 6:9
Neither is there respect of persons with him.

Colossians 3:25
There is no respect of persons.

1 Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:


BUT WE ALSO HAVE
Genesis 4:4
And the Lord had respect unto Abel.

Exodus 2:25
And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them.

Leviticus 26:9
For I will have respect unto you, and make your fruitful, and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you.

2 Kings 13:23
And the Lord was gracious unto them ... and had respect unto them, because of his covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob...

Psalm 138:6
Though the Lord be high, yet hath he respect for the lowly

its kind of a short list of those he did respect - and we see by the name they were people in close relationship with god
I think lowly can be translated to poor in spirit - meaning those that are good by nature but life has really kicked their butt.
perhaps depressed by all that they see but still having faith -- so that short list suddenly expanded to include quite a few
people. Just my own observation. (maybe pits are also counted in the lowly)

deridan
31st October 2013, 15:55
referring to the quote in the OP,
recap1..the atheist.
Shezbeth ....the Creator (Brahma and Brahman in Hinduism), is supposed to be the anti-entity too.?
___let me make an assumption, the moral religions, they must be from satan,
wrong-doers would ignore it anyway, and for the believers, it presents false-reins: causing them not to see well, not to defend the base which they should be defending.
_I'd love to buy my way out of this world it false paradoxes into the warrior culture, those Niburians ---then perhaps liquidize this paradox

Ernie Nemeth
31st October 2013, 17:04
Okay, I'll come out of the closet. I admit that I hate God too. I do not like that God cares not a whit for me or anyone else, that God allows whatever to transpire here on earth, whether for good or ill. God does not care and so why should I? That is the very theme of my life. Why should I care about anything since God does not care for me. It is a pickle. And not one I would have expected from myself, but there you have it. God and I do not see eye to eye, and I cannot understand the repurcusions of that statement, since God knows everything and I know nothing. But how can I turn a blind eye to my own and others' trials and tribulations and say that it does not matter? I can't because I live in this crappy world filled with suffering and suffering does matter to the one suffering...

edit: I should add that despite this firm stance I am on humanity's side. I care, and I want to make this world a place of beauty and abundance, peace and freedom. I do not argue with God but we have words from time to time. I will not accept that like a child playing in the sandbox, this is all a game of my own making and that pretty soon I will abandon my toys and go running, sand trailing from my shoes and clothes, as God will call me in for supper...

Shezbeth
31st October 2013, 21:18
Shezbeth ....the Creator (Brahma and Brahman in Hinduism), is supposed to be the anti-entity too.?

Yes and no. Personally, I am of the mind that "Brahma" is as much a mask as the "anti-entity". Both masks having been created by limited entities, placed over the face of the driving force by limited entities, and serving the purpose of concealing the nature of the driving force.

But, this is just the latest form of an emergent hypothesis.

deridan
2nd November 2013, 10:48
Shezbeth, honestly I'm tired of how common the hypothesize which you present is, its fashionable and disgusting.
..what is mixed up in this world... imagine two land owners. (the land is some hypothetical space in human minds) (the land is not land, but things which get associated with..)
power gets most commonly associated with the devil. sex is a contemporary concept too, which gets linked with the carnal.

however not so, for in the OT, does Brahma not say, /HE THE COLOSSUS, SHE or even beyond such entity dimensionedness/: I originate both good and evil.

not to say he is both good and evil, but in referring to this hypothetical landedness concept.
it is the motivations,
one is a creator, using both arms,
and another has the motivation of destroying,,,even sometimes using both arms [: good and evil]

....as-far as my reference to ^^^ is as Brahman (the force permeating all of creation)_ apt of you to site that, I'll let that stand,
but though and really laughingly because, it does not threaten my central stand;

;what was this thread about???, oh I still fall within it _ ways of relooking the concept.

{though too, the most common principles I site from the Bible when hearing such like silliness are these:
Genesis 1, man is responsible for applying the overall dominion,
the original law blocks which Moses held was broken by his own hands in witnessing the adultery, what is to say the ones we have 'in our bible' are not inferior, a response to the inferior.... who knows the substance of the first therefore.....time-travel anyone, we'd have to hit pause and read those just before they reach the ground and splinter... we would I believe see statues fitting a mature civilization,}

...men is also in a delegated state. they did not want to face God directly.

all of these things have influence.

hey who wants to do a dream interpretation for me.
I dreamt Orion 3 stars, one split into 8 fragments, and one fragment rained down to my right,
in my dream I turned left to go to life stuff. Am I too busy, or whats the problem here, ...if I live to a rich old life, this dream will torment me then most especially

Shezbeth
2nd November 2013, 19:41
Shezbeth, honestly I'm tired of how common the hypothesize which you present is, its fashionable and disgusting.

:violin:
Children who are cranky and tired may be due for a nap; They can be so cute when they get all huffy and stomp their feet though.

I must apologize for my limited grasp of English but your post made the faintest modicum of sense; Please organize your thoughts and present them in a conducive manner or prevail on someone who can. Until then,....


however not so, for in the OT, does Brahma not say, /HE THE COLOSSUS, SHE or even beyond such entity dimensionedness/: I originate both good and evil. [...] one is a creator, using both arms, and another has the motivation of destroying,,,even sometimes using both arms [: good and evil]

Correct me if I am wrong, but OT means original text yes?

You seem to be arguing my point for me, but I am wholly disinterested in debating your convictions to antiquated inky pieces of paper. You'd be better suited to bring your own ideas/material if you wish to have a debate on the matter though it is amusing that my hypothesis is deemed the "common" one.

How long have the stories of Brahma (and Brahman? There's two? :rolleyes: ) been around, and what 'wonderful' state is the world in as a result? I'm not attempting to assign blame with that last, simply pointing out impotence. :biggrin1:

:focus:

Cannot the same hands that are involved in creating one moment be destroying in another? This extremely simple idea seems to be, if not among the thesis statements of Misotheism than certainly in support of it.


...men is also in a delegated state. they did not want to face God directly.

Agreed! The OP said it best in the opening description!


Pious people have a tendency to praise God for what is good in the world but to shield God from blame when things go wrong.

Creating an anti-entity is just one such way. But again I reiterate, they may both be illusions.

Edit: For more, check this abso-fking-lutely magnificent post by Turiya:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65049-The-Chandian-Effect&p=752386&viewfull=1#post752386