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View Full Version : What attracts people to lousy partners--Mythology and reality



AutumnW
5th November 2013, 22:37
...Well, for starters, the very worst come across, initially, as shy, sensitive, caring compassionate--not just the weak tea of 'nice.' They're amazing chameleons.

Everybody loves them, admires them, particularly their intended victim, as they shine klieg lights of mirrored adoration right back at him/her...at first. The most practiced and intelligent predators are very adept at the soul destruction of another human being, in a socially camouflaged way. They know exactly how the victim will be perceived. That is part of the great game; to take another person down with the unwitting help of others.

Although the victim label is difficult to experience, absorb and process through, it isn't made any easier when those who have never experienced malicious cruelty don't get it.

Those who judge others by their own experiences and the experiences of their luckier sisters/brothers, who merely married or dated an obvious loser, should be very careful about ascribing blame, in all circumstances. They might also want to watch the movie, 'Bitter Moon,' by Roman Polanski, with the understanding that sadism exists and is not limited to the sexual or physical sphere.


What so many don't quite get is the very worst sadists, you won't likely know really well-- just how they present; as persons with impeccable virtue and high moral standing. Their victims become run down, hysterical, demoralized and depressed--and then it's, "are they (victim) ever awful. He/she (victimizer) is so kind, such a wonderful person! I don't know why he/she doesn't just dump her/him!"

We can easily see this taking shape on an international stage where entire nations become 'terror states', in the minds of the naive and the real terrorists, in positions of power and control, are able to shape perception. It's a spiritual problem on both macro and microcosmic level.

ponda
5th November 2013, 23:45
What so many don't quite get is the very worst sadists, you won't likely know really well-- just how they present; as persons with impeccable virtue and high moral standing. Their victims become run down, hysterical, demoralized and depressed--and then it's, "are they (victim) ever awful. He/she (victimizer) is so kind, such a wonderful person! I don't know why he/she doesn't just dump her/him!"

We can easily see this taking shape on an international stage where entire nations become 'terror states', in the minds of the naive and the real terrorists, in positions of power and control, are able to shape perception. It's a spiritual problem on both macro and microcosmic level.


You might find this roundtable interview interesting

Psychopath Roundtable, Thomas Sheridan, James Corbett, Jay Weidner, Vinny Eastwood 17July2013

x1878aerllI

Flash
6th November 2013, 02:39
this video is a woman, but I also know some guys beaten up by their wifes. I thought the video was appropiate for this thread. What one year of abusive relationship gives. It starts nice and beautiful and you can see the changes throughout.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNXbMMjzbe4

Robin
6th November 2013, 05:33
I am going to attempt to give my analysis of human courting and mating behavior. As a scientist and Wanderer, relationships between men and women on this planet have puzzled and intrigued me for so long now. I could never pinpoint the reasoning behind so much anger and frustration between the two genders when in a relationship scenario.

DISCLAIMER: Please do not be offended in my analysis. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, do not be offended! These conclusions come from scientific observation by not only me, but by leading scientists. These thoughts are structured and analyzed unbiased. I love both women and men and both genders are equal. Women are highly misunderstood and deserve to be praised for their loving nature. We need more women leaders in this world. These observations do NOT pertain to all individual humans, both men and women, but the general population. Everybody is different and unique and everybody experiences different emotions. Some people express emotions to different extremes, and people control their behavioral tendencies to differing capacities.

Why do men and women cause so many heartbreaks with one another? Why do we cheat? Why do women typically fall for "bad guys" only to be emotionally stretched to their fragile limit? Why do men let their egos get in the way of committing emotionally to a female partner?

I have come to the conclusion that the reason there is a plethora of emotional turmoil between the two sexes of planet Earth is due to our Reptilian brain, or the "R complex." According to Paul D MacLean and Carl Sagan, the R-complex--which we inherited from our reptile ancestors--is responsible for human instinctual behaviors involved in aggression, dominance, territoriality, social hierarchy, and ritual displays.

Men
Men on a physiological level have naturally evolved characteristics such as physical strength and mental fortitude. They possess the tendency to choose a female partner who is likely to encourage them in their instinctual behaviors, such as winning challenges. If for once a man subconsciously feels that his mate is not fulfilling his need to be appreciated, he searches for another.

When a woman exposes his sensitivities, the man will retreat to his cave more and more out of the subconscious fear that his mate will not think of him as strong anymore. His R-complex is constantly in search of being the strongest and fittest he can be as an individual, and if for once his mate reduces these feelings, he subconsciously seeks for more female adoration in other potential mates.

The ego of men is such that they feel a need to draw attention to their accomplishments, no matter the depth. Although men possess qualities that can ensure the expression of women creativity, their ego takes the front seat where they instead focus on their own accomplishments.

Women
Women on a physiological level have naturally evolved characteristics such as emotional strength and enhanced intuition. They possess the tendency to choose a male partner who is likely to protect them and to validate their emotions. If for once a female subconsciously feels that her mate is not acting his true self, making her feel safe and secure, or emotionally nourishing her, she searches for another.

It is popular among men who consider themselves to be "nice," "shy," and "insecure," that women often fall head-over-heels for the "bad guy" who oftentimes does not treat her respectfully. Time and time again, woman choose mates who appear to carry a strong sense of confidence. Confidence, which is heavily linked to the R-complex, is often paired with traits unsuitable for fulfilling the emotional needs of a woman.

A woman will accept the confidence trait because subconsciously she feels that he will be able to protect her and her children. When the confident male--who typically also possesses an enhanced tendency to avoid emotional issues--does not validate the woman's feelings, she will either search for another mate, or will try to "change" him. If she is emotionally attached to her mate, she will try to change his unsuitable behaviors so she has the best of both worlds (security and emotional nourishment).

The "nice" guys, although insecure and perhaps physically weaker, usually possess the traits of emotional nourishment and validation. Because the R-complex of the female is based on finding a mate who will protect her, she subconsciously looks past the weaker male in search of a man who is more confident, ultimately leaving the nicer guy without a mate. The nice guy syndrome is the unfortunate paradox of men who possess the emotional validation qualities that women desire for emotional happiness, but lack the dominant quality of confidence that women are more attuned to seek.

Conclusion
It has been well-researched among many individuals in the science, conspiracy, and religious areas that a Reptilian race has had some sort of control of humanity for hundreds, perhaps thousand of years. If it is true that Reptilians have manipulated our genetics to their liking and of their own DNA--leaving an R-complex region in our brains--then it is likely that they have purposely created traits in men and women that would pit each gender against one another to create complex associations that involve hardships.

It is speculated that male Reptilians of one particular race have a ritualistic lifestyle (Simon Parkes). This involves males rising up in the ranks and gaining respect by achievements of manipulation and deceit. It is also widely speculated that male Reptilians think of females as the inferior gender and that females should do the bidding of the males.

If humans of Earth also possess Reptilian DNA (R-complex), then it is likely that we also possess a mild form of their gender interaction. Women, subconsciously, prefer mates who possess controlling qualities that come across as confident and strong. Because women also possess a Mammallian brain section, they also desire the comfort of emotional security. This is the paradox. Our brains are wired such that we cannot control which section influences our decisions (Reptilian vs. Mammallian).

Time and time again, both men and women experience harsh heartbreaks from their partners. Cheating, manipulation, and egotistical behavior often reign in and destroy a once positive relationship. The massive ego of men and the paradoxical behavior of women choosing "bad guys" as mates but feeling emotionally empty because of it is a never ending battle.

Perhaps this is exactly what the Reptilians wanted. Gender wars. We cannot overlook the fact that our behavior is sometimes controlled by this R-complex. We are them. They are us.

“Here's all you have to know about men and women: women are crazy, men are stupid. And the main reason women are crazy is that men are stupid.”
~George Carlin

Flash
6th November 2013, 06:13
The R complex has to do not only with survival through agressiveess, competitivity etc., but is also the part of the brain controlling the autonomous body responses. Without it, we die, because it controls our breathing, our heart pomp, our everything that is related to the body. And we share those function with everything that moves on the planet, reptiles, birds, mammals.

I do not subscribe much to the reptilian brain having been put into us by Alien reptiles. If so, they changed the whole gamut of all species, not just human. The fact that we name it the reptilian brain has nothing to do with ETs, it has to do with the fact that the lowest species in the evolutionary scale having it were the reptiles, when it was first studied.

If the Alien Reptilians changed something in us, I would think it is much more related to the emotional brain, which is the limbic brain. When you take off emotions away from it, you end up with psychopaths, lack of empathy, not understanding emotions at large and having to imitate them to be adapted to society. However, it shows up as confidence, since you have no or very little emotional reactions. So hormonal women would be despised by such people (tweaked men and women).

The reptilian brain association with the Alien reptilian is wrong all along, on a scientific point of view.

However, when you check on the rest of the brain, mostly the limbic brain, one may think that changes occured there. Personnally I thinkthat changed may have been made directly at the DNA level, having an impact on the whole body and brain.

Reputation of reptilian is no emotions (thrill yes but no emotions). This makes one understant why our emotions would release some hormonal stuff that would be a drug for them. They cannot produce it themselves. It allows them for more thrill, since emotions are absent basically in them, the drug they take is related to thrill, as in human psychopaths. As any cocaine ir meth addict would tell you, thrill is the name of the game.

This is my own analysis, not related to Simon Parkes, except for the part where he says they are hierarchical and have not much emotions.

Replace the R-complex stuff by the limbic system or by the DNA, and the rest of your analysis would make sense to me.

Edit: i want to say that the limbic system (emotional) balances part of the aggressive R-complex, but also the neocortex, particularly the frontal lobes, that act as ihinbitors of the R-complex when needed are quite important.

deridan
6th November 2013, 10:12
another way of seeing this is as such. a b c. were if a is dominant b is controlled in a manipulative way. if c is dominant b is controlled in another way.
layers to the brain: a - the reptilian part
b - the limbic system with emotions, socialization and ape-like derived behaviours
c - the neocortex - higher reasoning.

those without higher reasoning skills are predominant in the reptilian part of their brain, there tendency would be to control.
those dominant in their neocortex, would by the accidents of living find they are still living, need some form of human contact,
but as confidence is a thing of continuous stream they are less confident in those ways.

the case study in the OP seems to talk of a neocortex dominant person applying unscrupulous behaviour. In mammalian societies, testorone seems as the direct link to that core of aggressive behaviour in 'a'. males become loners, seek there own territory and eventually die having achieved or not. societies are some, so close in bounds,,that a-dom:-b,,that we see males who would otherwise not be loners, not seeking the top of some peak, degenerating into a sense of entitlement over females.

---that we call it reptilian may be a misnomer...it is the essence of surviving,
the limbic is justified as 'being mammalian', and the neocortex is our folly

some Charkra Master Guy told me, that an energy centre flows up from the knees, through the charkras upward,
not so in females, generally a downward movement,
which is why guys think first of sex, and females think of relationship first (i.e. flowing from 3rd eye down to heart), sex second.

One would have to admit that the functioning of the energy systems taps and translates with how the brain layers are 'well layer[//configured]'
closeness in the brain...also goes to the hippocampus and amygdala as functional areas,
the hippocampus is the physiological Long Term Memory generator. & the amygdala has configurations for the "affective part of our being". {which is typically why people who memorize well know they have to attach a value to those materials}
A neocortex dominant person would have lots of functional attention on the hippocampus, and the socialization behaviour cues in the amagdala would be less well tapped,
though typically gangsters and the rough don't have to make their living thinking,,,and are rather amygdala'id dominant and controlling.

hehe.......more dust,,,,,,and so we see the movements of the wind better....wish i felt better"don't

sheme
6th November 2013, 11:39
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U55m_TzM7jw

RMorgan
6th November 2013, 12:32
Hey folks,

Well, there are a lot of different variables involved.

Some people subconsciously believe they deserve to suffer so, unconsciously, they look for suffering, even though they might not enjoy it. This is suffering as a penitence.

Some other people subconsciously enjoy suffering, so they find ways to fulfill their suffering needs. The classic case is the woman who gets beaten up by her husband every day, but never press charges. This is suffering as pleasure.

There's also the fact that people tend to repeat both the good and the lousy behavior of their parents. The son of a man who beats up his wife will tend to beat up his wife as well. The daughter of a woman who is beaten up by her husband will develop a tendency to find a man to beat her up as well...Of course, some people manage to get away from this cycle, but they are the minority. This is suffering as circumstantial consequence.

There's another important variable, which is the increasing difficulty to experience emotions. Society is empty. People are numb. Happiness, for most people, is nowhere to be found. So, people welcome whatever sensation which makes them feel alive, feel human, including pain. This is suffering to feel alive.

Another variable is that some people feel invisible. For them, the only way they find to draw attention from other people, so they can experience existence through compassion, is by making people feel pity for them, so they find ways to be involved in unfair and violent relationships just to be noted as individuals. This is suffering to draw attention.

Psychologically, the human being is completely messed up...Suffering is a common emotional and social currency. One way or another, most people seek suffering, for several purposes.

Of course, it just shows how sick our society actually is. No other animal in this planet enjoys to inflict and receive pain besides the human being.

Raf.

dianna
6th November 2013, 12:33
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U55m_TzM7jw

LOL Sheme, I hope that was sarcasm ....

I was a bit disturbed by the "How to Handle a Woman" advice from Merlin ... quote, "Never be too disturbed if you don't understand what a woman is thinking ... they don't do it very often"

Wow

But I guess it doesn't matter about all that pesky understanding of a woman, as long as in the end "you just love her" LOL LOL LOL --- yea, that will fix the problem LOL

deridan
6th November 2013, 12:54
..thanx RM, I was secret hoping for a meta-cog, one to see the weaknesses in and blast appropriately.
--in the name of ouroboros, for when we cycle to this again. atleast in addition to having said my bit, I too may leave more efficiently

RMorgan
6th November 2013, 13:08
..thanx RM, I was secret hoping for a meta-cog, one to see the weaknesses in and blast appropriately.
--in the name of ouroboros, for when we cycle to this again. atleast in addition to having said my bit, I too may leave more efficiently

Yes, brother...The ouroboros, the most efficient symbolic representation of everything human.

You know, I don't remember who said that, but someone said that hell is repetition. Being in hell is living in this overwhelming vicious circle.

That's all we do, individually and sociologically....Never ending repetition.

No matter what part of history, or what part of the world, whenever humanity is involved, it's always the same thing repeating itself. The scale and circumstances are different, but the mechanics are the same.

Both acts of inflicting and receiving pain are just a small part of it all...Generally, we're completely stuck as a race, and apparently condemned to continue like this until we find a way to move away from this cycle.

Raf.

sheme
6th November 2013, 13:54
I am so glad you spotted this- I thought it was hilarious in the light of the discussion, and was tempted to make a comment but I thought I should rely on the intelligence of the forum for fit comment, Nice tune though, perhaps they should change the love word for 'own'.

AutumnW
7th November 2013, 02:37
Thank you for all of your responses.

Thanks Ponda for the broadcast. I have listened to it before and it's wonderful.

Flash, I appreciate your comments and the video. You can imagine how beat up she is inside, by looking at the outside. Women who have been physically abused experience their emotional viscera ricocheting off the walls of their minds, long after they have been struck. I am lucky in that I've never experienced this at the hands of any man, except my father. By the time I was in my early teens it stopped. He must have realized it was in his own best interests to never lay a glove on me again.

RMorgan, I don't disagree that some people repeat patterns, often due to what they are used to. Being mistreated is normal for them and sometimes pleasure and pain are so closely braided with need, it is hard to untangle them, particularly when they are part of a strong bond.

An addictive relationship is often part of a deeper mystery and drama that unfolds and ensnares the couple involved. The processes that propel it along and the reasons for the enmeshment often remain unknown and unknowable to the individuals bonded to one another. Those people who stay together under horrible circumstances can't be understood by somebody looking at the situation from the outside, either. Outsiders can find some of the answers in psychology texts, but their understanding will remain incomplete. The heart remains uncharted terrain.

My opening post is about cases where there is clearly an intent to harm for fun, radiating from one person in the relationship. It's not a common experience. I can think of just three cases, through the course of my life. Two happened to friends. One happened to me and it was of short duration. This is over a long time frame and I have known a large number of people.

AutumnW
7th November 2013, 02:41
I just looked at Scheme's video! I thought Merlin was a poster on the forum and his comments about women had been removed! I am correct that the advice about women, comes from a song in the movie, Camelot? LOL

So Merlin, you punk...remember this is 2013, not 1213, okay???

Flash
7th November 2013, 02:51
4% psychopaths, those will often enjoy hurting others, through banking theft (those often beat up their wifes too) or through torture and S&M for example.

So we may meet 4 out of 100 and be Lucky enough not to have them in our lifes.

Then there is another 4% narcissists. Those are so self centered that they hurt others because of it.

So, lets get Lucky and not meet them.

When someone meets and have to deal with those, they are truly destroyed at the end. I have seen employees shaking in the presence of such person, others still crying years later after they were gone from the situation, in work environments. I have seen customer agents shaking while talking about one particularly agressive and harrassing customer while the company's owner would not want to do anything for their agent because that customer was bringing in lots of money. They all went into depression.

I have seen spouses being destroyed. Lately, an old business acquaintance of mine finally admitted he was screamed at 10 times a day and physically beaten by his wife. He has not been able to handle his business for the last 2 years, is actually going through bankcrupcy, and has his 2 children to care for because they are traumatised too, when he finally decided to divorce. She is getting worse in the meantime. He said he could never call for help because the law and cops favor women and she would have lied but they would have believed her. Which I think is true.

I myself, had been submitted to such a person. I am just now, 9 years after the divorce, finally recovering most of my self confidence. I will never recover from the Financial damages, the career opportunities missed, the lost friendships (because they manage to isolate you). And my daughter, as a daughter of such a father, will be scared for life, even with all the good I did bring her.

kanishk
7th November 2013, 04:59
Is there a way we can recognize this type of person in a first look?

Flash
7th November 2013, 13:07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U55m_TzM7jw

should have told us it was kind of a romantic parody


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U55m_TzM7jw

Observer1964
7th November 2013, 14:35
I think it has to do with what James Redfield in his book Celestine Prophecy called Control Dramas.


All humans, because of their upbringing, tend toward one of the four “control dramas”: intimidators steal energy from others by threat. Interrogators steal it by judging and questioning. Aloof people attract attention (and energy) to themselves by acting reserved or withdrawing. And poor me’s make us feel guilty and responsible for them.

http://nolabelsnolies.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Control-Dramas.jpg

The above description from James Redfield’s book, The Celestine Prophecy defines four ways that people are in relationship with one another. All are attempts to control another’s behavior. What is this need we have to control? Why do we feel it is necessary?
We attempt to control and manipulate others because we believe that if they would change their behavior we would be happy and so would they. When people do things we don’t like, or when we’re not getting our way, we think they are wrong. Then, believing we are right and they are wrong, we think that we have the right to impose our beliefs on them. What we are attempting to do is protect our beliefs.


Control dramas are a fascinating phenomena within a relationship. It is usually easy to pick out our partner’s drama, but rarely do we recognize how we play into it.


Next example I myself would say aplied to my ex-wive, and other girlfriends i Had, so I think there is also a factor of opposites attrackt !!!

For example, my former husband was a classic interrogator. I’m convinced that James Redfield coined the term after meeting him! A critical man, my ex continually poked and prodded and found fault in everything I said or did. Sometimes I wondered what kind of perverse pleasure he got out of finding me so inadequate. Nothing was ever good enough for him. He could question me at length about anything, even something as simple as grocery shopping: “How could it take you so long to shop for food? How much did you spend this week? How could you be so extravagant? Were all those purchases really necessary? Did we need two kinds of lettuce AND tomatoes? etc

It is notable that these dramas are like contagious diseases.

Intimidators (or bullys) create 'poor-me's
Interrogators create Aloof people
and also the other way around...
Aloof people create Interrogators
and 'poor-me's create intimidators

On a bit deeper level; I am convinced that these simple control dramas are the result of Archons (4th dimensional artificial intelligences) manipulating our behaviour into acting out one or more of these control-dramas. (in order to extract vital energy from us as that is their sustanance) (Also hinted on with the Cartoon-movie Monsters Inc.)

The woman in the video to me is a proof that these dramas over time get worse, she could have run away from the guy doing this to her, instead she made it into a film that is indeed like a warning, but also acting out her poor-me, and I do feel sorry for her, but she holds the key to end it.

Basicly in all relational problems the controldramas play a central role, and once u are aware of them can easily recognise them.

By recognising these control dramas and figuring out what your own controldrama is you can break the spell, but not always save the relation. for that both need to see what is happening, and the one who is on top like the intimidator and interrogator like the control they have and wont question their own behaviour or justification.

(quotes taken from; http://www.relationshipspecialists.com/media/the-four-control-dramas-from-the-celestine-prophecy/ )

Also see The Four Control Dramas from the Celestine Prophecy
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?24735-The-Four-Control-Dramas-From-The-Celestine-Prophecy

AutumnW
7th November 2013, 20:30
Is there a way we can recognize this type of person in a first look?

Not really. That's why it's always a good idea, for a number of reasons, to go very very slowly, in a new relationship. Psychopaths, who are most prone to sadism, will try to hook you emotionally, very quickly. A facade that is 180 degrees counter to their true personality, is an energy drain for them. Once their target is hooked, they know they don't have to work so hard to maintain the facade. Some are more patient than others, so that's not a hard fast rule either.

Watch how they treat others. Again, if they are extremely disordered, it's going to be very difficult for them to disguise the fact, over time. Watch a new partner under the influence of alcohol. Are they a mean drunk? Again, it's not a firm, fast rule, but maintaining a facade of goodness is much more difficult under the influence.

Observe the relationship a new partner has with their mother, particularly. What is their family of origin like? How did they treat their siblings when they were growing up? Talk to siblings about this issue, not the new partner! You don't want to be in a position where you are 'building a case' against everyone you become involved. with, so it is really tough.

I have read and experienced personally that malignant narcissists and psychopaths all have one thing in common...they are NEVER to blame, if a problem arises in interpersonal relationships, or any kind of relationship, I figure. They will also, almost without fail, use the 'pity play' to hook you. Again, this is a tough one, because, objectively speaking, some people have had miserable lives and bad luck. It seems to me though, that just about everyone I have ever met who describes their lives as a series of miseries, and mistreatment at the hands of others, turned out to be someone I should have avoided. I am a sucker for a sad story..and that's a good thing. I want to remain sympathetic and empathetic. Now, though, I am more sensitive to the person who has had profoundly bad luck with nearly everyone their entire lives. I have to avoid these people to protect myself.

A good exercise to engage in when starting a new relationship, if you sense that a person might be using the pity play is to ask them, "what contributing role do you think you may have played in this or that friendship?"

Another very good one is to let the new person know, through action and other means, that you will never compromise your principles or morals. I am not implying that it would necessarily work in all situations, but in my own experience the sadist who was trying to control me, terminated all effort within two weeks of that conversation.

Carmody
8th November 2013, 03:49
Is there a way we can recognize this type of person in a first look?

Yes.

Sadly, it comes at a price.

Experience.

Sometimes we end up there, due to projection. desire. Where we want to go. What we want to see. What we remember as 'twists' in our origins and upbringings...things brought to us as wiring, via emotional learning, things that cannot be easily undone as they are below conscious memory. Also, Genetic Memory, trauma suffered by our parents, brought into us, from their given origins and even what happened while we were in the womb.

listening to:

DC3L0R_M4fg

AutumnW
8th November 2013, 21:48
I think it has to do with what James Redfield in his book Celestine Prophecy called Control Dramas.


All humans, because of their upbringing, tend toward one of the four “control dramas”: intimidators steal energy from others by threat. Interrogators steal it by judging and questioning. Aloof people attract attention (and energy) to themselves by acting reserved or withdrawing. And poor me’s make us feel guilty and responsible for them.

http://nolabelsnolies.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Control-Dramas.jpg

The above description from James Redfield’s book, The Celestine Prophecy defines four ways that people are in relationship with one another. All are attempts to control another’s behavior. What is this need we have to control? Why do we feel it is necessary?
We attempt to control and manipulate others because we believe that if they would change their behavior we would be happy and so would they. When people do things we don’t like, or when we’re not getting our way, we think they are wrong. Then, believing we are right and they are wrong, we think that we have the right to impose our beliefs on them. What we are attempting to do is protect our beliefs.


Control dramas are a fascinating phenomena within a relationship. It is usually easy to pick out our partner’s drama, but rarely do we recognize how we play into it.


Next example I myself would say aplied to my ex-wive, and other girlfriends i Had, so I think there is also a factor of opposites attrackt !!!

For example, my former husband was a classic interrogator. I’m convinced that James Redfield coined the term after meeting him! A critical man, my ex continually poked and prodded and found fault in everything I said or did. Sometimes I wondered what kind of perverse pleasure he got out of finding me so inadequate. Nothing was ever good enough for him. He could question me at length about anything, even something as simple as grocery shopping: “How could it take you so long to shop for food? How much did you spend this week? How could you be so extravagant? Were all those purchases really necessary? Did we need two kinds of lettuce AND tomatoes? etc

It is notable that these dramas are like contagious diseases.

Intimidators (or bullys) create 'poor-me's
Interrogators create Aloof people
and also the other way around...
Aloof people create Interrogators
and 'poor-me's create intimidators

On a bit deeper level; I am convinced that these simple control dramas are the result of Archons (4th dimensional artificial intelligences) manipulating our behaviour into acting out one or more of these control-dramas. (in order to extract vital energy from us as that is their sustanance) (Also hinted on with the Cartoon-movie Monsters Inc.)

The woman in the video to me is a proof that these dramas over time get worse, she could have run away from the guy doing this to her, instead she made it into a film that is indeed like a warning, but also acting out her poor-me, and I do feel sorry for her, but she holds the key to end it.

Basicly in all relational problems the controldramas play a central role, and once u are aware of them can easily recognise them.

By recognising these control dramas and figuring out what your own controldrama is you can break the spell, but not always save the relation. for that both need to see what is happening, and the one who is on top like the intimidator and interrogator like the control they have and wont question their own behaviour or justification.

(quotes taken from; http://www.relationshipspecialists.com/media/the-four-control-dramas-from-the-celestine-prophecy/ )

Also see The Four Control Dramas from the Celestine Prophecy
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?24735-The-Four-Control-Dramas-From-The-Celestine-Prophecy

Hi Observer, I think that the control dramas Redfield described are very real. Categorizing them by gender misses the point. Pathologicals, male or female, use the pity play. The most practised present as morally scrupulous and holding up stoically under mistreatment by a cruel institution, person, partner, etc..etc.. The female of this type is generally alluring and femme fatale, as well.

I don't know if I'd blame archons for the way some people behave when they fear loss of control. They're neurotic. The intent isn't necessarily to harm another. It's more a maladaptive way to reduce anxiety, exert personal autonomy and sense of security.

It makes sense that those who enjoy the suffering of others, have crossed some kind of emotional rubicon, where they have invited archons to hitch a ride on them. So, as they feed off others, they are the emotional meal ticket for ungodly entities. Yep. I can see that happening. Thanks for sharing that idea.

AutumnW
8th November 2013, 22:07
[COLOR="red"][SIZE="3"][B]DISCLAIMER: Please do not be offended in my analysis. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, do not be offended!


You are pretty brave! You have earned your name, tip toeing through a gender minefield where you could be blown to bits at any moment! I don't disagree with most of what you have written. My own take on this is there is a genetic component to sadism and extreme aggression and it is linked to the 'warrior gene'. It makes sense that in the developed world, where major wars have not been fought for a couple of generations, we may have built up too large a repository of warrior genes.

The hyper-aggressive, pathological person carrying these genes, both shapes society and is shaped by society. A positive feed back loop is created, and seeing as those genes aren't spent on the battlefield, they do actual damage in the domestic sphere. The behavior that you would admire in war time; covert operations, stealthy maneuvering, fighting to the death, are turned away from enemies abroad. The blood lust screams to be satisfied, literally or metaphorically, at home.

Just a theory.

Observer1964
8th November 2013, 22:59
I think it has to do with what James Redfield in his book Celestine Prophecy called Control Dramas.


All humans, because of their upbringing, tend toward one of the four “control dramas”: intimidators steal energy from others by threat. Interrogators steal it by judging and questioning. Aloof people attract attention (and energy) to themselves by acting reserved or withdrawing. And poor me’s make us feel guilty and responsible for them.

http://nolabelsnolies.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Control-Dramas.jpg

The above description from James Redfield’s book, The Celestine Prophecy defines four ways that people are in relationship with one another. All are attempts to control another’s behavior. What is this need we have to control? Why do we feel it is necessary?
We attempt to control and manipulate others because we believe that if they would change their behavior we would be happy and so would they. When people do things we don’t like, or when we’re not getting our way, we think they are wrong. Then, believing we are right and they are wrong, we think that we have the right to impose our beliefs on them. What we are attempting to do is protect our beliefs.


Control dramas are a fascinating phenomena within a relationship. It is usually easy to pick out our partner’s drama, but rarely do we recognize how we play into it.


Next example I myself would say aplied to my ex-wive, and other girlfriends i Had, so I think there is also a factor of opposites attrackt !!!

For example, my former husband was a classic interrogator. I’m convinced that James Redfield coined the term after meeting him! A critical man, my ex continually poked and prodded and found fault in everything I said or did. Sometimes I wondered what kind of perverse pleasure he got out of finding me so inadequate. Nothing was ever good enough for him. He could question me at length about anything, even something as simple as grocery shopping: “How could it take you so long to shop for food? How much did you spend this week? How could you be so extravagant? Were all those purchases really necessary? Did we need two kinds of lettuce AND tomatoes? etc

It is notable that these dramas are like contagious diseases.

Intimidators (or bullys) create 'poor-me's
Interrogators create Aloof people
and also the other way around...
Aloof people create Interrogators
and 'poor-me's create intimidators

On a bit deeper level; I am convinced that these simple control dramas are the result of Archons (4th dimensional artificial intelligences) manipulating our behaviour into acting out one or more of these control-dramas. (in order to extract vital energy from us as that is their sustanance) (Also hinted on with the Cartoon-movie Monsters Inc.)

The woman in the video to me is a proof that these dramas over time get worse, she could have run away from the guy doing this to her, instead she made it into a film that is indeed like a warning, but also acting out her poor-me, and I do feel sorry for her, but she holds the key to end it.

Basicly in all relational problems the controldramas play a central role, and once u are aware of them can easily recognise them.

By recognising these control dramas and figuring out what your own controldrama is you can break the spell, but not always save the relation. for that both need to see what is happening, and the one who is on top like the intimidator and interrogator like the control they have and wont question their own behaviour or justification.

(quotes taken from; http://www.relationshipspecialists.com/media/the-four-control-dramas-from-the-celestine-prophecy/ )

Also see The Four Control Dramas from the Celestine Prophecy
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?24735-The-Four-Control-Dramas-From-The-Celestine-Prophecy

Hi Observer, I think that the control dramas Redfield described are very real. Categorizing them by gender misses the point. Pathologicals, male or female, use the pity play. The most practised present as morally scrupulous and holding up stoically under mistreatment by a cruel institution, person, partner, etc..etc.. The female of this type is generally alluring and femme fatale, as well.

I don't know if I'd blame archons for the way some people behave when they fear loss of control. They're neurotic. The intent isn't necessarily to harm another. It's more a maladaptive way to reduce anxiety, exert personal autonomy and sense of security.

It makes sense that those who enjoy the suffering of others, have crossed some kind of emotional rubicon, where they have invited archons to hitch a ride on them. So, as they feed off others, they are the emotional meal ticket for ungodly entities. Yep. I can see that happening. Thanks for sharing that idea.

Sorry couldn't find a better picture, I also dont agree it is bound to gender.

I once had a relation with a woman that was absolutly an intimidator and an extreme one...
I rather not go into further details...
But after that relation was over and I lived on myself again with the babyboy that that relation produced I was on the phone with her mother, who basicly was on my side as she had already suffered herself a lot by her daughter. While on the phone i could see an entity float-walking through the room from the corner of my eyes...

looking a lot like this figure...
http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/703/archonpatch.jpg

I had never heard of Archons back then, at the time I was more thinking in terms of demons, it had a strong impression on me at the time. Asif that demon walked out of my house as there was no means of interference anymore.

I stayed single for quite some years after that relation.

A german site also has an article on this phenomenon.
http://psitalent.de/Englisch/AI1.htm