Pedophiles: initiative to catch them

[Flash]

Here an initiative in the Netherland to catch pedophile worldwide. The problem is that they do not have the police cooperation to arrest them yet, once caught.

See the video, very interesting

www.upworthy.com

Say hello to Sweetie


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGmKmVvCzkw

[Selene]

I think there always ought to be a ‘heads up’ alert whenever a man expresses a real interest in tending small children, working in a nursery, pediatrics, etc. even scouting.

There’s a reason, I think, why tending small children has always been “women’s work” in every society and civilization : there’s too much risk to children from the men. That’s just the way it is.

I’m sure there are a number of “women in men’s bodies” who might be wonderful; but they are the extreme exception. The rest of males demand extreme scrutiny. I don’t care how much they smile and “express concern…” They don’t belong in the nursery.

Caution is always warranted.

Regards,

Selene

[Flash]

Selene, although men have to be checked when working with children, I would not push it towards extremes either. There is numerous wondeful dads playing balls with their children, being hockey coach while their children are playing, there is lots of good men for whom pedophilia would not cross their mind.

And there is a lot of pedophiles too. It seems that statistically there is 1 pedophile for every 300 inhabitants. So make the calculation, there is a lot of them.

Therefore, when working with children, one have to have an eye really open to see irregularities and hear the children. However, there is so many children lacking the presence of their father, that depriving them of Learning to be with a dad figure is depriving them of much for their mental benefit.

Keeping an eye open and not denying when someone see something irregular should be enough. As long as we act when we see something.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Thanks. Your sentiments are exactly why I did not go through with the big brother program. The scrutiny was ridiculous, childish and paranoid. After the third interview they were still humming and haing so I just told them to forget it. Their loss, and the childrens'. But then again I am a crimminal until I prove that I am not. This isn't the states, after all. It is her majestety's domain...

[RunningDeer]

2,258,459 people have seen the video in three days.

Link to sign petition please click here (http://avaaz.org/en/wcst/).

[Eram]

That must have been a lousy experience Ernie.
I can imagine that man who set out to be a coach, nurse,teacher, whatever for litle kids get put off bye this kind of screening, but you know what?
It's all worth it.

If one in 300 people has pedophile interests, you can bet your ass that this number is increased ten fold in all professions that come into close contact with little kids.
All a pedophile wants, is to create the opportunity to be be alone with innocent little children.
The cost of a child molestation is so incredibly high.
They get damaged for life, trying a good portion of that life to figure out what exactly hit them.

I say, screen the man that want to work with little children until you can be certain that no pedophile gets through it.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Ya, I know all about child abuse, thanks. And I grew up, well, almost normal. Let me tell you, pedophilia continues because others turn a blind eye, ignore complaints from minors, and when caught, get very light sentences. One case I know of, the guy abused children for decades - he had hundreds of victims and most were not well adjusted members of society since the travesty halted or otherwise altered their development. After a lengthy, media-blackout trial, the guy got less than two years. Hundreds of lives ruined and he got two years! I face the same for simple assault. Course, he prolly had money for a good defense. Go figure...
And we call it the justice system, ya right.

[Flash]

Yes Ernie, there is something definitely wrong with the justice system in Canada regarding pédophiles. IT is much too lenient, a small slap on the wrist. And they do not even need money for a good defence, it is how the system penalize pedophile in Canada.

Simple assault with no prior charges should be resolved without jail Ernie, unless the guy/girl ended up in hospital for 6 months. TRuly, go get some advice from free lawyers, we had given you ideas about it in the here and now thread. I am sorry to hear that, truly. I wish I was a lawyer, I would get you out of this.

[Violet]

Part of this data was handed to our Belgian police force and one of the first things said was that our justice system does not allow provocation of criminal acts so it is impossible for Belgian police to use this model to catch paedophiles (unless the law changes).

However, they said they will look into the data as they feel that it is highly likely that someone who has these talks with a doll not knowing it's a doll also does this with other children even possible taking matters further.

So, perhaps the people that have been pointed out to the police will be put on some watch list until effectively caught.

[Corncrake]

Very hard to get one's head around but, to be even handed, there are a minority of women involved in this practice too ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8022861.stm. Some horrible cases taking place in nursery schools have come to light in the UK in recent years. Though controversial, the character Sybil with a multiple personality disorder in the film of the same name - supposedly based on a true story - was abused by her mother.

[spiritguide]

Society pushes children to adulthood and sexual education at a young age and then wonders why deficits arise in life. Innocence in childhood is being taken away at an alarming rate as the parents allow unknowns to raise their children. Pedophilia is probably a reaction within society to it's total abuse towards it's young. What is the hook to all the children's pageants? We need to look inside on this issue also. Any child abuse is wrong and the lesson we need to learn is to take back the parental responsibility from the state. Lots of evil in this world that needs banishing. IMHO

Peace!

[Vitalux]

I think there always ought to be a ‘heads up’ alert whenever a man expresses a real interest in tending small children, working in a nursery, pediatrics, etc. even scouting.


Perhaps the same thing could be said about women tending :noidea: children too.

But I disagree with your generalization about men.

I worked as a childcare worker or a reform school, I was a softball coach for a group of young children when I was in my early 20's and I never had any sexual desires to abuse people or children. I did it as an act of human kindness.

The OP video definitely is aimed at demonizing men. It deals with an emotional subject and content, and it has been designed to make us feel angry towards men in general. Yes the video is real, but the video is meant to make the viewer feel angry towards men. For example, In the above video it says; " Men virtually rape girls on line"

That is a bit far fetched if the child is willing :der:

Women, are just as capable, and some do abuse children sexually. It is just kept more in the closet.:tsk:


As long as there are human beings there will always be some form of sexual exploitation of others.

It is part of the program of here, in my opinion, which gives us the opportunity to experience and grow. Rather that growth be as an individual, group, society or race.

[Sidney]

I think this sweetie thing is brilliant, but I am also wondering, what constitutional right will be taken away from the general public when the law is changed in order to gain justice on the pedophile.

[RMorgan]

Hey folks,

It's an interesting initiative, but ethically and legally, it's somewhat questionable.

Do authorities have the right to set someone up, so he commits a crime and is arrested as a consequence of this set up? Legally, it opens a dangerous precedent.

Also, could these people be arrested, if the "victim" itself is not a real person? If there's no real victim, there's no real crime.

This campaign is surely efficient as an eye opener, but legally, it's full of holes, specially when they're dealing with people from several countries, with several legal systems.

Here in Brazil, as an example, this action would be illegal. Our legal system doesn't allow authorities to persuade someone to commit a crime and arrest him as a consequence, e.g; Leave an open car with keys inside just to arrest whoever might decide to take the car for a ride.

These men are presumably pedophiles indeed, but ultimately, they cannot be prosecuted for abusing a computer simulation.

Raf.

[Selene]

Thanks for your comments, Vitalux. I appreciate your perspective and certainly did not mean to imply that all men who work with children have an unhealthy interest in them. Children need male mentors and teachers.

My expression of caution, though, arises from two factors:

1) The potential harm that would be caused by a deviant male is a significant one. So even if the overwhelming majority of males are innocuous, the possibility that any one of them may be dangerous requires enhanced security and scrutiny for all. Simple policies such as not allowing a male to be alone with a child in a secluded setting, always requiring two workers, scout leaders etc in a child environment and so on can go a long way to providing protection without implying any issues with individuals.

2) The sad fact remains that, statistically, pedophiles do gravitate to child-vulnerable positions of scouting, coaching, ‘big brother’, daycare, pediatrics, etc. They are overrepresented in those groups which depend on securing the child’s trust. That higher probability here – again, while not indicting any individual – warrants increased caution overall.

And yes, there are undoubtedly some women who are seriously deviant as well. Sad, but true.

Regards,

Selene




I think there always ought to be a ‘heads up’ alert whenever a man expresses a real interest in tending small children, working in a nursery, pediatrics, etc. even scouting.


Perhaps the same thing could be said about women tending :noidea: children too.

But I disagree with your generalization about men.

I worked as a childcare worker or a reform school, I was a softball coach for a group of young children when I was in my early 20's and I never had any sexual desires to abuse people or children. I did it as an act of human kindness.

The OP video definitely is aimed at demonizing men. It deals with an emotional subject and content, and it has been designed to make us feel angry towards men in general. Yes the video is real, but the video is meant to make the viewer feel angry towards men. For example, In the above video it says; " Men virtually rape girls on line"

That is a bit far fetched if the child is willing :der:

Women, are just as capable, and some do abuse children sexually. It is just kept more in the closet.:tsk:


As long as there are human beings there will always be some form of sexual exploitation of others.

It is part of the program of here, in my opinion, which gives us the opportunity to experience and grow. Rather that growth be as an individual, group, society or race.

[Ernie Nemeth]

So then you are saying that the government is right, and by extension so is our society, to mistrust every single citizen because there are a few who misrepresent themselves and cheat on their taxes.

This catering to the least common denominator is the reason we are divided - and conquered.

To love is to trust.

[sian]

This campaign is surely efficient as an eye opener, but legally, it's full of holes, specially when they're dealing with people from several countries, with several legal systems.



the holes are indeed a problem as evident wherever we reside and the key to where we choose to change these entities behind more often than not 'designer laws'. it's a start. if we continue to ignore innocences of the vulnerable we are depraved, common decency and maturity must overcome the denial so ashamedly rampant in society.

[RunningDeer]

Hey folks,

It's an interesting initiative, but ethically and legally, it's somewhat questionable.

Do authorities have the right to set someone up, so he commits a crime and is arrested as a consequence of this set up? Legally, it opens a dangerous precedent.

Also, could these people be arrested, if the "victim" itself is not a real person? If there's no real victim, there's no real crime.

This campaign is surely efficient as an eye opener, but legally, it's full of holes, specially when they're dealing with people from several countries, with several legal systems.

Here in Brazil, as an example, this action would be illegal. Our legal system doesn't allow authorities to persuade someone to commit a crime and arrest him as a consequence, e.g; Leave an open car with keys inside just to arrest whoever might decide to take the car for a ride.

These men are presumably pedophiles indeed, but ultimately, they cannot be prosecuted for abusing a computer simulation.

Raf.

That explains, in part, the 'thumbs down'.


http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/thumbs_zpsac421e51.jpg

[Violet]

Reading the comments about the legal and ethical question marks, I suddenly remembered the police force interviewee saying that - as opposed to Belgium - not only the Netherlands but also the American FBI do have the possibility to use these provocative approaches within their regional justice system.

[Violet]

Hey folks,

It's an interesting initiative, but ethically and legally, it's somewhat questionable.

Do authorities have the right to set someone up, so he commits a crime and is arrested as a consequence of this set up? Legally, it opens a dangerous precedent.

Also, could these people be arrested, if the "victim" itself is not a real person? If there's no real victim, there's no real crime.

This campaign is surely efficient as an eye opener, but legally, it's full of holes, specially when they're dealing with people from several countries, with several legal systems.

Here in Brazil, as an example, this action would be illegal. Our legal system doesn't allow authorities to persuade someone to commit a crime and arrest him as a consequence, e.g; Leave an open car with keys inside just to arrest whoever might decide to take the car for a ride.

These men are presumably pedophiles indeed, but ultimately, they cannot be prosecuted for abusing a computer simulation.

Raf.

So, what would, in your opinion, be a justified approach when receiving such a report as police in countries like Brazil or Belgium?

Obviously, it would also be wrong to dismiss it as "no real crime has been committed (yet)".

[RMorgan]

Hey folks,

It's an interesting initiative, but ethically and legally, it's somewhat questionable.

Do authorities have the right to set someone up, so he commits a crime and is arrested as a consequence of this set up? Legally, it opens a dangerous precedent.

Also, could these people be arrested, if the "victim" itself is not a real person? If there's no real victim, there's no real crime.

This campaign is surely efficient as an eye opener, but legally, it's full of holes, specially when they're dealing with people from several countries, with several legal systems.

Here in Brazil, as an example, this action would be illegal. Our legal system doesn't allow authorities to persuade someone to commit a crime and arrest him as a consequence, e.g; Leave an open car with keys inside just to arrest whoever might decide to take the car for a ride.

These men are presumably pedophiles indeed, but ultimately, they cannot be prosecuted for abusing a computer simulation.

Raf.

So, what would, in your opinion, be a justified approach when receiving such a report as police in countries like Brazil or Belgium?

Obviously, it would also be wrong to dismiss it as "no real crime has been committed (yet)".

Well, here in Brazil it would not be considered a crime, simply because there's no victim.

In my opinion, the ideal approach is to legally setup a system to monitor such chat rooms for pedophilia activities. Surely, we have technology to monitor and track these suspects without the need to set them up.

However, as you know, it would be a legal challenge to get a proper warrant to monitor such websites, since technically this would be a serious individual rights violation. Everybody using these services would have to be monitored in the first place, including mostly innocent people, so they could detect potential suspects.

You see, it's complicated. Setting people up, using a real person or a virtual simulation is illegal. Monitoring the whole web or chat rooms is also illegal, since innocent people would be monitored as well.

Officially, to get a warrant authorizing to monitor someone's web activity, you must first have minimum evidence indicating that such person is performing illegal activities.

You have to fight it locally, in this case, in the Philippines. These children are not paying for their internet connection. They didn't buy their computers as well. Most likely, their parents did. So, find a way to track these activities locally, using regular intelligence tactics. Make it a parental abuse case, first. From there, get a warrant to monitor the victim's computer and consequently track the ip addresses of the pedophiles. Locally, arrest the responsible for involving the children in this situation. Internationally, pass the information about the pedophiles for the appropriate authorities of their original countries.

In my opinion, arresting the responsible for involving the children in such activities is the first priority. By doing this, you can also catch the pedophiles as a consequence, but focusing only on arresting the pedophiles will not prevent the same children from being victimized later on.

This is a hard fight. It must be approached from all sides.

Raf.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

My question is , what is the attraction for a 10 year old girl to expose her self and freely interact with older men who engage in sexual fantasies on line ? should we be looking at their exophelic behaviour too ? I mean it takes two to tango... and a lot can be learned as to why THEY are attracted to male attention. If young girls didnt want older men to look at their bodies then there would be virtually none of this taking place ... unless they are being forced to do it ? i immagine there is an element of this too.

Looking deeper i think if we really examine this, why do young girls freely ( obviously not all but most ) engage in pedophilic acts ? i think the answer lies in examining this phenomena.

I would postulate the fllowing

Curiocity : engaging in a type of virtual sex educative process.
Male Attention : wanting or craving male affection in the abcence of a father figure.


I know when i was a 10 year old boy i played doctor with girls from school. It was a mutual act of discovery and pretty much all cases i was approached by the girl to experiement and discover. I would further postulate that the shy ones would engage in this on line to keep anonimity as some feel ashamed of exploring them selves sexually.

I think what we are dealing with is Natural Sexual curiocity that happens to everyone.

The father figure is absent and has been since forever but more so now days. Since the advent of laws giving incentives to sepperate the children from the father , casitng him out because of custody laws and alimony entitlement would be enough of a deterant for most men ever seeing their children.

whats further the problem is the laws surrounding this. Children are a cash cow in divorce. This should be removed if we are to divert the propencity for one of the parents pushing for custody and that parent using whatever methods they can to alienate the children from the other parent to gain favour in the eyes of the court. This is the system that is destroying the dual parenting aspect that children need. As an outcome men are the ones in most cases ousted from the home , from the children and forced to pay while having their rights stripped away. The arguments in divorce can only lead to one thing , whomever the side of the law falls , the other is now the outcast. And who enages in this system without truly looking at the effects ?

And we wonder why children are growing up without a father... i think someone needs to take a closer look at this and make an adjustment, leaving this in the hands of the beneficiary may never bring a better outcome.

I think removing the alimony or payment system forced upon the loser of custody is whats needed. Then we will see if the custody is truly for the love of the child. It would also go a long way to reducing the attractiveness of divorce.

When two people need each other to survive then the incentive to stick to their original commitment is a greater.

sorry i have gone on a tangent but i think we need to look at whats behind the scenes to get to the root of this , the sweetie program may be good at entrapment but i dont think its a long term solution.. it may just work the other way ... instead of men and women engaging in pedofelia on line they will be forced to seek out live victinms ..

N

[RMorgan]

My question is , what is the attraction for a 10 year old girl to expose her self and freely interact with older men who engage in sexual fantasies on line ? should we be looking at their exophelic behaviour too ? I mean it takes two to tango... and a lot can be learned as to why THEY are attracted to male attention. If young girls didnt want older men to look at their bodies then there would be virtually none of this taking place ... unless they are being forced to do it ? i immagine there is an element of this too.

Forget about this.

In 99,99% of the cases, children are either forced or seduced to perform such activities by adults, most often their own parents or close relatives.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

My question is , what is the attraction for a 10 year old girl to expose her self and freely interact with older men who engage in sexual fantasies on line ? should we be looking at their exophelic behaviour too ? I mean it takes two to tango... and a lot can be learned as to why THEY are attracted to male attention. If young girls didnt want older men to look at their bodies then there would be virtually none of this taking place ... unless they are being forced to do it ? i immagine there is an element of this too.

Forget about this.

In 99,99% of the cases, children are either forced or seduced to perform such activities by adults, most often their own parents or close relatives.

Thank you , my questions are designed to explore the incentives and mechanisms behind this phenomena.

So where did you get that figure ? is there a study thats found this result ?

If so then parents should be targeted ? not the children or the pedders ?

Or should we go after the parents and the pedders ? Would it be advantageous to make the parents and the pedders confront each other ? that would be interesting...

N

[Flash]

I think there always ought to be a ‘heads up’ alert whenever a man expresses a real interest in tending small children, working in a nursery, pediatrics, etc. even scouting.


Perhaps the same thing could be said about women tending :noidea: children too.

But I disagree with your generalization about men.

I worked as a childcare worker or a reform school, I was a softball coach for a group of young children when I was in my early 20's and I never had any sexual desires to abuse people or children. I did it as an act of human kindness.

The OP video definitely is aimed at demonizing men. It deals with an emotional subject and content, and it has been designed to make us feel angry towards men in general. Yes the video is real, but the video is meant to make the viewer feel angry towards men. For example, In the above video it says; " Men virtually rape girls on line"

That is a bit far fetched if the child is willing :der:

Women, are just as capable, and some do abuse children sexually. It is just kept more in the closet.:tsk:


As long as there are human beings there will always be some form of sexual exploitation of others.

It is part of the program of here, in my opinion, which gives us the opportunity to experience and grow. Rather that growth be as an individual, group, society or race.

Vitalux, I think we will disagree quite a lot here.

I see the video as realistic about what is going on, in fact about a major problem going on worldwide and sponsorized by the Cabal. This video does not speak of mutilations, physical assault, torture and murder some children live in real life.

And the problem is thorughout the world, targetting children. It is growing, not diminishing and you can add to it a very efficient thorough campaing to banalise the situation and take the pedophile off the hook, in fact, have the society accept sexual intercourse with children saying the children want it, then what is wrong with it.

Although i am sure of your genuine good heart and love of people including children, you seem to have bought into the pédophiles mind track and false presentation of reality.

CHILDREN NEVER WANT TO BE EXPLOITED, AND LESS SEXUALLY. THEY DO NOT KNOW ABOUT SEXUAL EXPLOITATION IF YOU DO NOT PUT THEM BY FORCE IN IT. Including those in chat lines. What about the girls sold at 8 or 10 in brothels in Thailand. No problems, they want to have sex with Customer because they want the money?

what about women in third world countries WHO HAVE TO PROSTITUTE IN ORDER TO FEED THEIR CHILDREN DURING THE HOLY WEEK? What about children on Mexican beaches being raped every single night? Don't tell me they want it!! Give them an opportunity to do otherwise, they will jump on it. Those women want their children to live, not to die of hunger (I saw it from my own eyes and spoke to these desperate women), and these children most cherish desire is to learn to read and write, not to be raped on the beach by pédophiles (I spoke to them too, bought them food and show them to write using the sand as a blackboard).

And yes, they are raped virtually and it does mess up their brain and heart, most of the time for life.

All that said, it is not a majority of men doing this, it is 1 out of 300 statistically, which makes an awfull lot worldwide. And this is where we have to intervene.

Do not give me the crap that it is not a problem because the very MANIPULATED AND STARVING children want it because they have to pay the pimp beating them up.

Some women do abuse, but very very very few, maybe one in 100,000. So the problem is mainly a male problem. The answer you had just makes me see how terrible and huge the problem is if a guy like you does not even see the damage to these children.

[Flash]

So then you are saying that the government is right, and by extension so is our society, to mistrust every single citizen because there are a few who misrepresent themselves and cheat on their taxes.

This catering to the least common denominator is the reason we are divided - and conquered.

To love is to trust.

Yes to love is to trust, but do not trust the psychopaths of this world from which most of the Cabal is composed, they will eat you alive. Do not trust a pedophile around children either, he will want to eat them alive too.

There is a difference between love and being blind Ernie. One can also have tough love, and this is what I would propose for pedophile. For the Cabal: extremely though love up to a point of "go and reincarnate elsewhere".

[Vitalux]

So then you are saying that the government is right, and by extension so is our society, to mistrust every single citizen because there are a few who misrepresent themselves and cheat on their taxes.

This catering to the least common denominator is the reason we are divided - and conquered.

To love is to trust.

Interesting point. :thumb:

In the city where I live, there is a city by-law in which Children are :nono: not allowed to climb trees.

In one park, a child was climbing a tree, fell out, and broke his arm.
The City cut down all the trees in that park to prevent any other child from climbing the trees and possibly hurting themselves.

Myself, I enjoy pubic parks with trees.
Occasionally some unfortunate child might fall out of a tree and hurt himself, but this is part of the experience we have in being a human-being.

In my view, we only perceive life, not conceive it.



https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTHjRyWsU2fTDK7cuGwUMZ6qVX4P8KVOBnRjq4oMe3pKAR3NWqJ


Additionally, I understand this is a very emotional issue, and due to the very nature of it, there will never be a consensus reached by all.

For some strange reason this dimension we exists on, mandate appears to always keep humans divided against each other by all possible means. :argue:

[Flash]

My question is , what is the attraction for a 10 year old girl to expose her self and freely interact with older men who engage in sexual fantasies on line ? should we be looking at their exophelic behaviour too ? I mean it takes two to tango... and a lot can be learned as to why THEY are attracted to male attention. If young girls didnt want older men to look at their bodies then there would be virtually none of this taking place ... unless they are being forced to do it ? i immagine there is an element of this too.

Looking deeper i think if we really examine this, why do young girls freely ( obviously not all but most ) engage in pedophilic acts ? i think the answer lies in examining this phenomena.

I would postulate the fllowing

Curiocity : engaging in a type of virtual sex educative process.
Male Attention : wanting or craving male affection in the abcence of a father figure.


I know when i was a 10 year old boy i played doctor with girls from school. It was a mutual act of discovery and pretty much all cases i was approached by the girl to experiement and discover. I would further postulate that the shy ones would engage in this on line to keep anonimity as some feel ashamed of exploring them selves sexually.

I think what we are dealing with is Natural Sexual curiocity that happens to everyone.

The father figure is absent and has been since forever but more so now days. Since the advent of laws giving incentives to sepperate the children from the father , casitng him out because of custody laws and alimony entitlement would be enough of a deterant for most men ever seeing their children.

whats further the problem is the laws surrounding this. Children are a cash cow in divorce. This should be removed if we are to divert the propencity for one of the parents pushing for custody and that parent using whatever methods they can to alienate the children from the other parent to gain favour in the eyes of the court. This is the system that is destroying the dual parenting aspect that children need. As an outcome men are the ones in most cases ousted from the home , from the children and forced to pay while having their rights stripped away. The arguments in divorce can only lead to one thing , whomever the side of the law falls , the other is now the outcast. And who enages in this system without truly looking at the effects ?

And we wonder why children are growing up without a father... i think someone needs to take a closer look at this and make an adjustment, leaving this in the hands of the beneficiary may never bring a better outcome.

I think removing the alimony or payment system forced upon the loser of custody is whats needed. Then we will see if the custody is truly for the love of the child. It would also go a long way to reducing the attractiveness of divorce.

When two people need each other to survive then the incentive to stick to their original commitment is a greater.

sorry i have gone on a tangent but i think we need to look at whats behind the scenes to get to the root of this , the sweetie program may be good at entrapment but i dont think its a long term solution.. it may just work the other way ... instead of men and women engaging in pedofelia on line they will be forced to seek out live victinms ..

N

Have you Fallen on your head Nanoo? 10 years old girls have no desire whatsoever to be with mature men, even with 12 years old boys, unless they have been primed, trained and already exploited in these ways (ex: starting with hypersexualisation everywhere to pimps buying children).

If there were no adult men not able to handle their sexuality as adult males, exploited children forced to endure their deviance would not exist. Your citation is upside down Nanoo. Reality is the reverse from what you are writing.

There is a WIDE DIFFERENCE between playing doctor at 10 and wanting to play with oneself while and adult male is doing the same at the other end. What fun is there when you are 10? (I was younger than then when playing doctor with the neighbours and believe me, it would never had cross my mind to do it with adults, If proposed to me I would have thought yeurki, disgusting).

We are not talking here of cash cow children in divorce, we are talking her of pimp controlling these children in the Phillipines, Those are not from the house in a child bedroom, they are organised crime controlling these children.

Those are not teenager who want to make money or trie their sexual appeal, which may happen once in a while, those are children whose making sex sexuality usually should not be awaken yet.

Gosh guys, on which planet are you living?

[RMorgan]

I couldn't agree more, Flash. I support you 100%.

Have you ever heard about middle-class or rich 10 years old children from developed countries prostituting themselves, or stripping their clothes in online chat-rooms for money?

Probably, you'll never hear about this because such things only happen with poor and miserable children, mostly from poor countries, who are forced to perform such acts by their parents to complement their miserable familiar income.

I've never seen or heard about 10 years old children sexually flirting with adults by their own free and spontaneous decision.

This whole phenomena is caused strictly by misery and poverty from the victim's side, and by perversion and immorality from the pedophile's side.


Gosh guys, on which planet are you living?

Yeah...No more comments...

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Legally there was no real crime if the girl was fictitious in THIS case, on the other hand, when some perverted Tragic Johnson is so sexually inadequate that he even jerks off at the sight of a clearly digital created image of a ten year old girl or just the fantasy of a ten year old, you could say imo that we have a frustrated and very scary menace to society in the making or he has already arrived at that stage, I don't think its that big a stretch of the imagination to get a mental picture of what such a sorry excuse for a human being would do if he would get his hands on a child in the real world.

[RMorgan]

Legally there was no real crime if the girl was fictitious in THIS case, on the other hand, when some perverted Tragic Johnson is so sexually inadequate that he even jerks off at the sight of a clearly digital created image of a ten year old girl or just the fantasy of a ten year old, you could say imo that we have a frustrated and very scary menace to society in the making or he has already arrived at that stage, I don't think its that big a stretch of the imagination to get a mental picture of what such a sorry excuse for a human being would do if he would get his hands on a child in the real world.

That's why I say to never leave your children alone with any adult, even relatives.

Most cases of pedophilia involve relatives and close family friends. It's sad, but it's the truth.

Always encourage your children to feel absolutely free to talk about anything that may be bothering them. Don't ever punish them for telling the truth and never ignore what they say. In a lot of cases, the parents don't believe their children when they accuse a friend or family member to have sexually abused them.

Teach your children about what is inappropriate adult behavior and that they should immediately report to you in case something like that happens to her/him.

The world is a mad place. Unfortunately, we have to teach our children about this madness, to minimize the risks of them learning it by themselves.

These men, the guys from the video, also have friends, families and even children of their own...Probably, nobody even suspects about their online crimes in real life. However, just give them the opportunity and they'll very probably make a reality out of their fantasies.

Society is sick, brother...

Anyway, here's a good movie about these kind of things. It's called "Trust", with Clive Owen. If you have preteen kids at home, I recommend to watch it with them:

zawGJvWsaaM

[778 neighbour of some guy]

That's why I say to never leave your children alone with any adult, even relatives.

I understand what you are saying Raf but there has to be at least some trust imo, I have no kids but I do have friends I completely trust and they could sit them any day, I also took care of my half brothers kids when he was in the hospital, meaning we do trust each other, that's what I say now of course, on the other hand, when walking our 1.1/5 year old dog last week ( she is in heat) some German Shepard tried to mount her and I almost kicked it in the nuts because our Emma wasn't having any of it, it visibly totally confused her, so, clearly not ready for adult dog behavior yet.

[Ernie Nemeth]

There are no closed systems in reality. This will one day be the great discovery that changes the world and the attitudes of people. I could offer examples but we like to hunt out and expose those who, due to whatever reason, has transgressed against the greater good. And we like to come down hard on them to show our disgust. Unless it is the government or corporations, of course. They are stronger than us, more resourceful and far more devious. So we pick the stragglers from the herd, the misfits, the deranged, the deviant - it makes us feel oh so good inside. We are such caring individuals, we say, let's go after that pedophile over there, no one is protecting him, and show everyone how well adjusted we are.

But let's just complain about government and their fascist companies. Let's not do anything about that. They are scarey and could fight back. Let's keep playing the money game and pretend everything is alright. Let's keep playing the land baron game and drive up the prices for everyone and then capitalize on it just like the big guys. Let's amass fortunes and then cry foul when the house of cards collapses on our heads. But let's not do anything about it because, well, we want to be rich next.

So let's just play it safe and go after the dregs of society, they are scum we can handle. And we'll feel so much better and sleep the sleep of the innocent...

[RMorgan]

That's why I say to never leave your children alone with any adult, even relatives.

I understand what you are saying Raf but there has to be at least some trust imo, I have no kids but I do have friends I completely trust and they could sit them any day, I also took care of my half brothers kids when he was in the hospital, meaning we do trust each other, that's what I say now of course, on the other hand, when walking our 1.1/5 year old dog last week ( she is in heat) some German Shepard tried to mount her and I almost kicked it in the nuts because our Emma wasn't having any of it, it visibly totally confused her, so, clearly not ready for adult dog behavior yet.

Yes brother...That's a tough subject.

The fact is that, in the vast majority of cases, these things happen right under the parents nose. It happens at home, mostly with relatives and close friends.

I also feel like I can trust my friends and my family...I don't even have kids yet, and when I eventually have kids of my own, I feel like I would be very comfortable to leave them with any of my best friends.

The problem is that every pedophile also have best friends and people who trust them...People have secrets, some of them pretty nasty.

Before I started dating my current wife, I used to date a lot of girls. Not just a few of them told me they have been sexually abused at least in one occasion when they were children, always by either relatives or their parents's close friends. It's terribly sad, but it happens all the time.

Just ask any of the girls here. Most women have been sexually abused when they were kids, in different degrees. They just didn't talk about it with anyone then, and don't like to talk about it now.

Anyway, it's always good to pay attention on your children's behavior, just in case. Children will always behave differently when they're close to someone who may have abused them. Even if they don't tell you anything with words, their body language will.

[spiritguide]

Posting this information with the hopes that the entire scope of this issue is broader than which personal conviction an individaul has on the subject at hand.

What Is Pedophilia?

Answers to common questions about pedophiles and pedophilia.

WebMD Feature Reviewed by Laura J. Martin, MD

Pedophilia can sometimes be a taboo topic. But it's often in the headlines. What is pedophilia? Who are pedophiles? How is it treated by the medical community?

Here are answers from sexologist Ray Blanchard, PhD, adjunct psychiatry professor at the University of Toronto.

What is a pedophile?
A pedophile is a person who has a sustained sexual orientation toward children, generally aged 13 or younger, Blanchard says.

Not all pedophiles are child molesters (or vice versa). "Child molesters are defined by their acts; pedophiles are defined by their desires," Blanchard says. "Some pedophiles refrain from sexually approaching any child for their entire lives." But it's not clear how common that is.

Does the medical community consider pedophilia to be a mental disorder?
Yes. The American Psychiatric Association (APA) has included pedophilia in its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders since 1968.

In the DSM, which is updated periodically, pedophilia has been grouped with other paraphilias -- which the APA defines as "recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors that involve children, nonhuman subjects, or other non-consenting adults, or the suffering or humiliation of oneself or one's partner."

But the next edition of the DSM -- the DSM 5 -- may instead refer to "pedophilic disorder."

"[Pedophiles] would be diagnosed with pedophilic disorder either if their attractions toward children are causing them guilt, anxiety, alienation, or difficulty in pursuing other personal goals, or else if their urges cause them to approach children for sexual gratification in real life," Blanchard says.

Can pedophilia be treated?
Yes. Although most experts do not think a person's feelings of pedophilia are curable, therapy may help them manage those feelings and not act on them.

Some patients at high risk of committing sexual offenses may need medications to reduce their sex drive, Blanchard says.

Are pedophiles only attracted to children?
Some pedophiles may be as attracted to adults as they are to children, but it's hard to know how common that is. That's because most pedophilia research is based on people who were arrested for sexual offenses against children, and they may tend to exaggerate their sexual interest in adults to seem more "normal," Blanchard says.

Is pedophilia more common among men or women?
Pedophilic disorder is far more common among men than women, Blanchard says.

Can pedophilia develop in an adult who had been attracted to adults?
That's very unlikely, although some people may become adults "before they become fully aware that their strongest sexual attractions are still toward children and not toward their peers," Blanchard says.

Are pedophiles typically attracted to children of the opposite sex, same sex, or is there no particular pattern?
Most pedophiles have a definite preference for one sex or the other. But it's tough to estimate the percentage of pedophiles who are heterosexual, bisexual, and homosexual in their attraction to children, Blanchard says.

What would you want people to know about the stereotypes about pedophiles?
"People do not choose to be attracted to children or adults any more than they choose to be attracted to males or females," Blanchard says. "If there is any choice in the situation, it is in how pedophiles manage their lives once they become fully aware of the direction of their sexual interests and the societal prohibitions against expressing them."

How do pedophiles typically deal with those feelings?
Some pedophiles embrace and try to justify their sexual orientation. Others recognize that the idea of approaching a child in real life is morally wrong; they can be frustrated, isolated, lonely, depressed, and anxious, Blanchard says.

"It seems conceivable that the stress of living with pedophilic disorder may lead to various secondary psychological problems," Blanchard says. "There are, however, some resilient individuals who manage to lead productive and successful lives, even though their sexuality remains a source of frustration."

If a man or woman has feelings that may be within the range of pedophilia -- even if they've never acted upon those feelings -- what should they do?
Get help. "People who are troubled by their sexual attraction to children should seek professional help rather than try to deal with this problem on their own," Blanchard says. He suggests starting with a family practitioner, although it may take several rounds of referrals. Or search for a sex therapist in your city.

Most areas of North America have mandatory reporting laws that override patient confidentiality. "These require the clinician to report instances of child sexual abuse (or probable imminent abuse) to designated authorities," Blanchard says.

Link to article...

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/features/explaining-pedophilia

There is a difference between child abuse and pedophilia. Abuse comes in many forms and the pedophile issue is clouded to incite emotional response. One should ask how does a society produce such entities. We are stuck on punishment instead correcting. If we have a problem let us find the root cause and eliminate the cause and the problem will go away.

Peace!

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Posting this information with the hopes that the entire scope of this issue is broader than which personal conviction an individaul has on the subject at hand.

What Is Pedophilia?

Answers to common questions about pedophiles and pedophilia.

WebMD Feature Reviewed by Laura J. Martin, MD

Pedophilia can sometimes be a taboo topic. But it's often in the headlines. What is pedophilia? Who are pedophiles? How is it treated by the medical community?

Here are answers from sexologist Ray Blanchard, PhD, adjunct psychiatry professor at the University of Toronto.

What is a pedophile?
A pedophile is a person who has a sustained sexual orientation toward children, generally aged 13 or younger, Blanchard says.

Not all pedophiles are child molesters (or vice versa). "Child molesters are defined by their acts; pedophiles are defined by their desires," Blanchard says. "Some pedophiles refrain from sexually approaching any child for their entire lives." But it's not clear how common that is.

Does the medical community consider pedophilia to be a mental disorder?
Yes. The American Psychiatric Association (APA) has included pedophilia in its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders since 1968.

In the DSM, which is updated periodically, pedophilia has been grouped with other paraphilias -- which the APA defines as "recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors that involve children, nonhuman subjects, or other non-consenting adults, or the suffering or humiliation of oneself or one's partner."

But the next edition of the DSM -- the DSM 5 -- may instead refer to "pedophilic disorder."

"[Pedophiles] would be diagnosed with pedophilic disorder either if their attractions toward children are causing them guilt, anxiety, alienation, or difficulty in pursuing other personal goals, or else if their urges cause them to approach children for sexual gratification in real life," Blanchard says.

Can pedophilia be treated?
Yes. Although most experts do not think a person's feelings of pedophilia are curable, therapy may help them manage those feelings and not act on them.

Some patients at high risk of committing sexual offenses may need medications to reduce their sex drive, Blanchard says.

Are pedophiles only attracted to children?
Some pedophiles may be as attracted to adults as they are to children, but it's hard to know how common that is. That's because most pedophilia research is based on people who were arrested for sexual offenses against children, and they may tend to exaggerate their sexual interest in adults to seem more "normal," Blanchard says.

Is pedophilia more common among men or women?
Pedophilic disorder is far more common among men than women, Blanchard says.

Can pedophilia develop in an adult who had been attracted to adults?
That's very unlikely, although some people may become adults "before they become fully aware that their strongest sexual attractions are still toward children and not toward their peers," Blanchard says.

Are pedophiles typically attracted to children of the opposite sex, same sex, or is there no particular pattern?
Most pedophiles have a definite preference for one sex or the other. But it's tough to estimate the percentage of pedophiles who are heterosexual, bisexual, and homosexual in their attraction to children, Blanchard says.

What would you want people to know about the stereotypes about pedophiles?
"People do not choose to be attracted to children or adults any more than they choose to be attracted to males or females," Blanchard says. "If there is any choice in the situation, it is in how pedophiles manage their lives once they become fully aware of the direction of their sexual interests and the societal prohibitions against expressing them."

How do pedophiles typically deal with those feelings?
Some pedophiles embrace and try to justify their sexual orientation. Others recognize that the idea of approaching a child in real life is morally wrong; they can be frustrated, isolated, lonely, depressed, and anxious, Blanchard says.

"It seems conceivable that the stress of living with pedophilic disorder may lead to various secondary psychological problems," Blanchard says. "There are, however, some resilient individuals who manage to lead productive and successful lives, even though their sexuality remains a source of frustration."

If a man or woman has feelings that may be within the range of pedophilia -- even if they've never acted upon those feelings -- what should they do?
Get help. "People who are troubled by their sexual attraction to children should seek professional help rather than try to deal with this problem on their own," Blanchard says. He suggests starting with a family practitioner, although it may take several rounds of referrals. Or search for a sex therapist in your city.

Most areas of North America have mandatory reporting laws that override patient confidentiality. "These require the clinician to report instances of child sexual abuse (or probable imminent abuse) to designated authorities," Blanchard says.

Link to article...

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/features/explaining-pedophilia

There is a difference between child abuse and pedophilia. Abuse comes in many forms and the pedophile issue is clouded to incite emotional response. One should ask how does a society produce such entities. We are stuck on punishment instead correcting. If we have a problem let us find the root cause and eliminate the cause and the problem will go away.

Peace!

I doesn't matter if its a disorder or not, its the behavior ( I work in psychiatry, don't like all aspects of it at all but there you go, thats what I do for a living), if an adult cant figure out what equality is in relationships, something's up, and more often then not, not in a good way, I see no need for intellectualizing this to death at all, common sense is all one needs here, when two equals either in age or in mature mutual understanding of each others needs find themselves on common grounds, go for it, but as soon as coercion/manipulation/lying/deceiving gets involved just to get ones way ( a corny clumsy somewhat adorable pickup line is the least of those evils btw imo, and even that could work if the attention put in the effort is appreciated), there is something not right, I'll leave it at that.

[spiritguide]

Neighbor,

Your end quote "there is something not right" is so true. The DSM also says that. This item is one that cannot be generalised as no two individuals are alike in totum. Thanks for your healing services! (A statement of appreciation.)

As an aside abnormal psych was a hard course for sure.

Peace!

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Neighbor,

Your end quote "there is something not right" is so true. The DSM also says that. This item is one that cannot be generalised as no two individuals are alike in totum. Thanks for your healing services! (A statement of appreciation.)

As an aside abnormal psych was a hard course for sure.

Peace!

The way I see it, the DSM, CAN, be a GUIDELINE, but no more, common sense is more valuable then a half baked list of black and white questions and control questions, here is my logic (I am sure I am not alone in this one), whether you are straight, gay, pedo, bi, transsexual or even a necrofeliac, there are times you just cant get what you want, meaning, youre sh!t out of luck, not nice, not pleasant, not pretty but that's how simple it is, and some people will be sh!t out of luck for their whole natural life's, fantasizing is one thing, acting upon them is something completely different, if I'd tell my girlfriend my fantasies she probably punch me in the face, if she told me hers I might do the same ( maybe not and we will both be pleasantly surprised, more likely is it will a very awkward week), so, sometimes one has to know what is appropriate and shut up, fantasy fine, acting upon it not necessarily fine, in case of pedophilia, by keeping it a private fantasy is a sure remedy and keeps kids from getting scarred.

Very few people consciously choose their sexual orientation, so there is no blame THERE, where blame CAN be assigned to is behavior and its possible consequences, so in case of pedophilia, fantasy is all your getting, so, sh!t out of luck it is.

OK, now I am really done here, total friggin minefield.

[Flash]

There are no closed systems in reality. This will one day be the great discovery that changes the world and the attitudes of people. I could offer examples but we like to hunt out and expose those who, due to whatever reason, has transgressed against the greater good. And we like to come down hard on them to show our disgust. Unless it is the government or corporations, of course. They are stronger than us, more resourceful and far more devious. So we pick the stragglers from the herd, the misfits, the deranged, the deviant - it makes us feel oh so good inside. We are such caring individuals, we say, let's go after that pedophile over there, no one is protecting him, and show everyone how well adjusted we are.

But let's just complain about government and their fascist companies. Let's not do anything about that. They are scarey and could fight back. Let's keep playing the money game and pretend everything is alright. Let's keep playing the land baron game and drive up the prices for everyone and then capitalize on it just like the big guys. Let's amass fortunes and then cry foul when the house of cards collapses on our heads. But let's not do anything about it because, well, we want to be rich next.

So let's just play it safe and go after the dregs of society, they are scum we can handle. And we'll feel so much better and sleep the sleep of the innocent...

Ernie, your rant is valid about the society at large including the bad corporations. However, what about naming and getting out the corruption everywhere when one sees it. If you have no Snowden for the spying wistleblowing, and if your have NO BRITISH PEDOPHILE RINGS EXPOSED as it is starting to be te case, organised pedophile but the house of cards coming down first with individuals, if we have nobody screaming at pedophile individuals within the Church, nothing will ever happen.

What I am trying to say here is that naming and pointing the crooks and deviants is also one way of starting processes for corruption, deviances and psychopathies of all sort to be in the open and eliminated.

If you do not do it at the local level when you see it, how would you ever do it at a larger level or how would you see what is happening at a larger level and accept to help?

The person who take a kid home because that kid has just been raped and that person calls help for that kid is much more courageaous than most to start with.

So, regarding pedophilia, I truly do not understand what you have against getting at the deviant for one, and the pedophilia cabalistic rings on the other hand.

[Flash]

Posting this information with the hopes that the entire scope of this issue is broader than which personal conviction an individaul has on the subject at hand.

What Is Pedophilia?

Answers to common questions about pedophiles and pedophilia.

WebMD Feature Reviewed by Laura J. Martin, MD

Pedophilia can sometimes be a taboo topic. But it's often in the headlines. What is pedophilia? Who are pedophiles? How is it treated by the medical community?

Here are answers from sexologist Ray Blanchard, PhD, adjunct psychiatry professor at the University of Toronto.

What is a pedophile?
A pedophile is a person who has a sustained sexual orientation toward children, generally aged 13 or younger, Blanchard says.

Not all pedophiles are child molesters (or vice versa). "Child molesters are defined by their acts; pedophiles are defined by their desires," Blanchard says. "Some pedophiles refrain from sexually approaching any child for their entire lives." But it's not clear how common that is.

Does the medical community consider pedophilia to be a mental disorder?
Yes. The American Psychiatric Association (APA) has included pedophilia in its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders since 1968.

In the DSM, which is updated periodically, pedophilia has been grouped with other paraphilias -- which the APA defines as "recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors that involve children, nonhuman subjects, or other non-consenting adults, or the suffering or humiliation of oneself or one's partner."

But the next edition of the DSM -- the DSM 5 -- may instead refer to "pedophilic disorder."

"[Pedophiles] would be diagnosed with pedophilic disorder either if their attractions toward children are causing them guilt, anxiety, alienation, or difficulty in pursuing other personal goals, or else if their urges cause them to approach children for sexual gratification in real life," Blanchard says.

Can pedophilia be treated?
Yes. Although most experts do not think a person's feelings of pedophilia are curable, therapy may help them manage those feelings and not act on them.

Some patients at high risk of committing sexual offenses may need medications to reduce their sex drive, Blanchard says.

Are pedophiles only attracted to children?
Some pedophiles may be as attracted to adults as they are to children, but it's hard to know how common that is. That's because most pedophilia research is based on people who were arrested for sexual offenses against children, and they may tend to exaggerate their sexual interest in adults to seem more "normal," Blanchard says.

Is pedophilia more common among men or women?
Pedophilic disorder is far more common among men than women, Blanchard says.

Can pedophilia develop in an adult who had been attracted to adults?
That's very unlikely, although some people may become adults "before they become fully aware that their strongest sexual attractions are still toward children and not toward their peers," Blanchard says.

Are pedophiles typically attracted to children of the opposite sex, same sex, or is there no particular pattern?
Most pedophiles have a definite preference for one sex or the other. But it's tough to estimate the percentage of pedophiles who are heterosexual, bisexual, and homosexual in their attraction to children, Blanchard says.

What would you want people to know about the stereotypes about pedophiles?
"People do not choose to be attracted to children or adults any more than they choose to be attracted to males or females," Blanchard says. "If there is any choice in the situation, it is in how pedophiles manage their lives once they become fully aware of the direction of their sexual interests and the societal prohibitions against expressing them."

How do pedophiles typically deal with those feelings?
Some pedophiles embrace and try to justify their sexual orientation. Others recognize that the idea of approaching a child in real life is morally wrong; they can be frustrated, isolated, lonely, depressed, and anxious, Blanchard says.

"It seems conceivable that the stress of living with pedophilic disorder may lead to various secondary psychological problems," Blanchard says. "There are, however, some resilient individuals who manage to lead productive and successful lives, even though their sexuality remains a source of frustration."

If a man or woman has feelings that may be within the range of pedophilia -- even if they've never acted upon those feelings -- what should they do?
Get help. "People who are troubled by their sexual attraction to children should seek professional help rather than try to deal with this problem on their own," Blanchard says. He suggests starting with a family practitioner, although it may take several rounds of referrals. Or search for a sex therapist in your city.

Most areas of North America have mandatory reporting laws that override patient confidentiality. "These require the clinician to report instances of child sexual abuse (or probable imminent abuse) to designated authorities," Blanchard says.

Link to article...

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/features/explaining-pedophilia

There is a difference between child abuse and pedophilia. Abuse comes in many forms and the pedophile issue is clouded to incite emotional response. One should ask how does a society produce such entities. We are stuck on punishment instead correcting. If we have a problem let us find the root cause and eliminate the cause and the problem will go away.

Peace!

I doesn't matter if its a disorder or not, its the behavior ( I work in psychiatry, don't like all aspects of it at all but there you go, thats what I do for a living), if an adult cant figure out what equality is in relationships, something's up, and more often then not, not in a good way, I see no need for intellectualizing this to death at all, common sense is all one needs here, when two equals either in age or in mature mutual understanding of each others needs find themselves on common grounds, go for it, but as soon as coercion/manipulation/lying/deceiving gets involved just to get ones way ( a corny clumsy somewhat adorable pickup line is the least of those evils btw imo, and even that could work if the attention put in the effort is appreciated), there is something not right, I'll leave it at that.

You saved my day, I was wondering if common sense still existed!! you are very much right. Just common sense is needed here, about pedophilia.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

You see , this is why i should not engage in on line debate. There is too much ego involved to truly explore any concepts defining cause.

I just dont see the point in this ligh and i just cannot see a solution while we engage with each other in this manner.

I am trying to understand the phenomena yet i am treated like an idiot by people who think they know everything.

Best of luck people

you will need it

Naniu ( signing off )

[Flash]

Oh please Naniu, I love arguing with you, you know this. Even if I say you have Fallen on your head, I still appreciate and love you very much. I just thought you were thinking backward. And yes, I have been direct.

And I do know how much of a huge heart you have. And that you would personally never hurt anybody. Yet, i still think your thinking is backward, the problem solving side you take is not going to work because it is not adressing the root problem It is adressing almost the end side of it. This is what I think and you are more than welcome to argument it.

Love
flash

[MaroonLagoon]

I keep going to write things and I get so upset I don't know if I can form anything coherent. Nothing upsets me more on this earth than our utter failure to protect our children on this planet, the future of our own species, as far as I am concerned if we can't get it together enough to protect the kids from this crap then what good are any of our other accomplishments, we are allowing our own future to be abused because of people's selfishness. So what if people have to live with unfulfilled fantasies in their lives, we all do, limitations are part of earth's experience, it never warrants taking power over children like that. Go fantasize and do your thing in the bathroom or whatever you have to do just don't bring it to the point where you are harming someone to fulfill your desire. (thoughts can change as well, the more you feed into something the stronger it tends to get, also the opposite can happen, stop feeding the thoughts) Kid's natural sexual unfolding is tampered with and pried open and decemated so much on this planet it's just disgusting. Just because we want something doesn't mean we always get to have it. Deal with it. There is a big difference between having it go on in your head and acting on it physically and bringing mental emotional or physical distress to someone. A 10 year old girl (or boy) isn't even old enough to know what they want! They are still developing. It's like flowers, you respect their pace and let them blossom in their own time. When I was 15 I didn't even know! So many young girls out there(and boys too I'm sure just that I can't speak from a guy's point of view) feel so worthless and think their body is literally the only thing of any value at all and is the only thing to illicit a response from a lot of other humans and so that is why so many of them offer their bodies, that is not wanting the sex that is wanting attention and love from another human which they should be respected enough as humans to receive, not be taken advantage of sexually. I'm very sorry if I seem rude or angry there's so much I want to say about this as this subject has touched my life from so many angles, so many people I love, boys and girls, men and women and I've been so aware of it my whole life it gets my heart pounding. So much long term damage is done and it sometimes takes years or even decades to realize the scope of it. I feel like I'm just starting to spew my emotions sorry you guys.


CHILDREN NEVER WANT TO BE EXPLOITED, AND LESS SEXUALLY. THEY DO NOT KNOW ABOUT SEXUAL EXPLOITATION IF YOU DO NOT PUT THEM BY FORCE IN IT.


In 99,99% of the cases, children are either forced or seduced to perform such activities by adults, most often their own parents or close relatives.

found this to be very true in life

[Selene]

Nanoo, if this is the point of your comment, I must respectfully disagree:


I think what we are dealing with is Natural Sexual curiosity that happens to everyone.

No. Sorry. Not even close.

What we are dealing with is the exploitation of that natural and naïve childhood curiosity for the financial profit and the sexual gratification of adult perverts. Period. Adults do know what they are doing; the same cannot be said of the children who are – if honest testimony serves – universally revulsed by the sexual approach of adults.

Don’t blame or accuse children for their own innocence and naïve arousal. You can’t actually get away with that in court, thank goodness. Childhood innocence is not a defense for the criminality of adults. The children were not “complicit” nor “consenting”. They were under the trusting influence of adults, who are responsible for their own crimes of perversion. That’s why we have laws against this. Sorry, here. I don’t care how alluring children might be to anyone; don’t blame them for the sexual perversion of adults.

Pardon my anger here, but I will defend the children.

Regards,

Selene

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Nanoo, if this is the point of your comment, I must respectfully disagree:


I think what we are dealing with is Natural Sexual curiosity that happens to everyone.

No. Sorry. Not even close.

What we are dealing with is the exploitation of that natural and naïve childhood curiosity for the financial profit and the sexual gratification of adult perverts. Period. Adults do know what they are doing; the same cannot be said of the children who are – if honest testimony serves – universally revulsed by the sexual approach of adults.

Don’t blame or accuse children for their own innocence and naïve arousal. You can’t actually get away with that in court, thank goodness. Childhood innocence is not a defense for the criminality of adults. The children were not “complicit” nor “consenting”. They were under the trusting influence of adults, who are responsible for their own crimes of perversion. That’s why we have laws against this. Sorry, here. I don’t care how alluring children might be to anyone; don’t blame them for the sexual perversion of adults.

Pardon my anger here, but I will defend the children.

Regards,

Selene

all i can say is that You along with the other angry mob have totally mis understood my posts and assumed me to be some sort of insensitive ****ing moron !

You guys really piss me off , seriously . after all this time together you think of me this way?

whats the use ?

all i got from that video is that they are using a computer program to catch pedders ! ok great ! so im thinkign why are the girls interacting with these men ? is it only the phillipines we are talking about ? or is it world wide ? You mean to tell me you can account for every single girl on line in the world that they are being forced to do this by their parents ? is this what you are telling me ?

this is why i am askign these questions. And my post gets to the heart of the problem , setting up people for entrapment with a computer program is not even a bad aid.

These children are being abused ? by whom ? the parents ? so there is a chance of mothers ( who are fe male ) forcing their kids to do this for money ? or are all women across the world so perfect and un evil that its only ever men that do these things to people ... get over your selves you femmenist idiots !

you are the ones that created this crap in the first place and we are too over it to care any more. You have Become the abusers with misguided anger. Great !

well im over trying to be a part of yoru community if this is the treatment i get

Re read my words without prejudice ( if you can ) because i am sick of your schizophrenic pre emptive accusations.

way to thin the heard.

bravo

[enfoldedblue]

Hi Nanoo :) ,

I guess what got me in your reply was the comment 'it takes two to tango'. Because for me this implies a shared responsibility, when in reality, the fact that one is an adult with adult awareness and one is a child with a very limited world view (naïve) there is a huge imbalance of power that is not being acknowledged in that statement. And this imbalance of power is the central problem here.

However, one thing that I will add is that while I do believe there is profound corruption at the higher levels in regard to dealing with paedophiles, I also think that in the general population paedophilia is so demonized that it makes it difficult for people who become aware of these destructive urges in themselves to seek help. Left in the darkness and secrecy these tendencies fester and eventually the person may be compelled to act these urges.

I have a friend who discovered during some deep work that he had urges in this direction. Luckily he was surrounded by progressive aware people who were capable of assisting him to examine these urges and I believe that by bringing them out in the open, assisted them to be diffused and healed.

[Eram]

You see , this is why i should not engage in on line debate. There is too much ego involved to truly explore any concepts defining cause.

I just dont see the point in this ligh and i just cannot see a solution while we engage with each other in this manner.

I am trying to understand the phenomena yet i am treated like an idiot by people who think they know everything.

Best of luck people

you will need it

Naniu ( signing off )

Hi Naniu and welcome back to the forum.

If one is to make an objective estimation about what is really going on, it is a great virtue to be able to let go of all believe and take a step back in order to try and make sense of a situation.
I think you are one of the best here on Avalon in approaching issues in that way.
But.... there are other things that we have to take into account when we try to solve a puzzle and those are: the facts about a situation and also the right context to place them in and this is where you are missing the boat (imo) in this particular issue.
Without them we start making all kinds of assumptions that are wildly speculative and we find ourselves in in a maze that we never find the way out for again.

Your assumption that it takes two to tango (like enfoldedblue put it so nicely) goes beyond the fact that children depend on adults to keep them from making serious mistakes for indeed they are naive and have not yet the tools to make proper judgements about the situation that they can find themselves in.

If my little daughter wants to jump in front of a racing car, it is up to me to avoid her to get injured or killed. She does not yet have the ability to make right assessment of the consequences of her wish to jump on the road.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Hi Nanoo :) ,

I guess what got me in your reply was the comment 'it takes two to tango'. Because for me this implies a shared responsibility, when in reality, the fact that one is an adult with adult awareness and one is a child with a very limited world view (naïve) there is a huge imbalance of power that is not being acknowledged in that statement. And this imbalance of power is the central problem here.

However, one thing that I will add is that while I do believe there is profound corruption at the higher levels in regard to dealing with paedophiles, I also think that in the general population paedophilia is so demonized that it makes it difficult for people who become aware of these destructive urges in themselves to seek help. Left in the darkness and secrecy these tendencies fester and eventually the person may be compelled to act these urges.

I have a friend who discovered during some deep work that he had urges in this direction. Luckily he was surrounded by progressive aware people who were capable of assisting him to examine these urges and I believe that by bringing them out in the open, assisted them to be diffused and healed.

Yes and why is it after all this time together you get angry at me ? why do people assume the worst of each other ?

people react with anger to someone asking questions to try to understand the subject matter .. i need to understand whats happening because i dont know much about it ..

I had this happen when i was trying to understand another thread here.. i asked questions and all i got was page after page of abuse ... and some of those people are here in this thread ..

man whats wrong with you guys ? should i just not care or pay attention , just ignore it ? is that what you want ?

the anger you have should be directed in other ways. not to blast innocent parties.

tell me ? cos i dont get your anger towards a family member trying to understand the machinations behind it all.

you assume i have all the info you do .. if that was the case then why be on a forum to gain info and engage in discussion ?

yes it takes two to tango .. if the girl wasnt there there would be nothing take place so whats the cause of that ? why is that girl there ? is she there of her own volition? ( my assumption ) or is tshe there for any myriad of other reasons ? what i want to know is why is it happening ? who is creating the supply for the demand ?

This anger towards me for this is abuse , its un warranted , if you want to make a difference you cant go around on a witch hunt burning everyone at the cross.

man i am just over it.

if there are figures to the contrary or figures for the arguments put forth cant you quote them ? they would be attached to articles i immagine that would have more background for people like me who are not up to speed.

do you get where i am coming from ?

your assumptions ( generally speaking ) truly show a lack of required leadership and compassion needed when trying to negotiate support for these sensitive issues.

and we can argue till the cows come home

but its not helping the kids is it ?

[spiritguide]

Nanoo,

Your attempt to get discussion about the problem with objectivity is being ignored/rebutted by some. You are attempting to get to the root cause, of how did the situation get to where it is. So maybe your question should be, What is the cause for all the sexual deviant thoughts spreading throughout society? Both the young and old are being affected by the derived thoughts. Anyone who has a TV on allows this type of garbage into their home. Your inquiry is valid and it is a shame that some redicule instead of explaining to help one learn root cause. You are a placeholder here so hold it securely. Science today generally treats symptoms not causes, this is evident in general health as well as mental health. Thank you for your input!

Peace!

[Agape]

Anyway, here's a good movie about these kind of things. It's called "Trust", with Clive Owen. If you have preteen kids at home, I recommend to watch it with them:

zawGJvWsaaM

This was an eye opener , for me personally , it almost hit the right spot on the nail ..and it hurt realising how deep are we touched by our relationships, including so called 'online relationships' and the deception included in them .
I don't think there's any precise border line between many forms of psycho-pathological disorders and behaviours ,

yes some people are well defined and fit in certain category but compared to majority , those are but few, typical 'psychopaths' .
The rest and majority of psychopathology in humans is scattered among the so called 'normal populace' and comes out as certain tendencies to potentially abusive behaviours that manifest depending on circumstances .

If you 'exempt ' man from his life circumstances .. like the man in the movie ..he can be about anything he wants .
If you've ever been in the 'old workers local pub' or poked your nose there you know what are the men talking about mostly . Not that most of them will ever put their wild ideas to reality but that's how bad it is , inside some primitive human brains .

You may believe that the online world is slightly more cultured because people are forced to embrace some sort of higher calculus and form of literacy on the net but I don't think many of them are on the web to learn . Maybe less than we constantly imagine is true .

There comes the point of the girl /or any other kid , entity of any age with pure and idealistic mind set , no matter whether you call it an intent or a naivety ,

encountering what we all agree is dirty , abusive behaviour and exploitation .

It's difficult to imagine that what for you means a 'life event' of great significance , for the other maybe a moment of fleeting pleasure that can be bought somehow , seldom very cheaply, in exchange for 'freedom' from the rules .

I think the movie is well done in sense that the girl tries to assume personal responsibility of what has happened rather than being 'helpless child victim' and that I think is more accurate portray of how we confront similar type of situations in life and why do we create to many problems of them,
we actually refuse to accept irresponsible roles as soon as we grow up a bit , if you look at children worldwide ( not only at comparative portion of the 'pampered' ones who grew up in advanced economies, are taken to school by car and can't tie their shoe strings at 13 quite yet ) ,
you want to be held responsible for yourself as early as you have valid cognition of your personal and moral credibility , at the same time ..you know you are vulnerable , won't be 'in full power' for many years yet and need protection of those with higher credits .

If some of the adult faculties /authorities you need are missing and you turn to seek for alternatives ,
I mean look at it rationally, the chances that a kid who ran away from home will meet wrong ends in hands of very indecent people out in the street are quite high .

The so called 'educated ' , decent people will seldom lower themselves to help you unless it's already almost too late ,
that's also very telling about this society .


The world is quite scary on its own :angel:

[Flash]

From Naniu: if there are figures to the contrary or figures for the arguments put forth cant you quote them ? they would be attached to articles i immagine that would have more background for people like me who are not up to speed.

do you get where i am coming from ?

your assumptions ( generally speaking ) truly show a lack of required leadership and compassion needed when trying to negotiate support for these sensitive issues.


1. I would first like to state here that I have no intention to "lead" this thread. My primary intention was truly informational. A new systems is put in place for a specific objective that I found intresting and I decided to give the information.

Now, if the thread develops, it has to be organic, with members implications. I will not direct it. When I want a specific direction, I do mention it in the opening post. So, all organic developers are welcomed in this thread.

2. I could give thousands of statistics, a set of which I will give a the end of this post. But for what? There is litterally thousands of them that can all be discussed and given pro/cons/whys for what? It did not stop the pedophile rink in UK to be very active. We can analyse to the end of this century, yet, which difference will it make? Is there a history of pedophilia? Of course, throughout centuries. Did you know for example that the Turkish empire would have following its armies a group of women and boys, as slaves, to cook, and serve as sex slaves. The boys were mainly used that way. Why boys? Because they could grow up to be fighting in the army, it was not a loss over time.

What I see is generalised guidelines common to all destructive structures:

a. a lust for power
b. an infringement on the freedom of others
c. a use of often unwilling others for servicing one's own needs - which could be named abuse
d. a need for secrecy
e. a need for control
f. prevalence of fear in a majority - instilling fear and controlling through fear
g. the use of will exclusively to achieve ones objectives
h. the getting for me attitude, getting is a key work
i. service to self orientation seems prévalent - getting

We are talking here of basics for domination, whichever it would be - the mafia over its population, the gangs ways of doing, the pimp on his girls, the parent on his children, the pedophile on his victim.

Now, as you could see, few main things are always absent in all these above:

k. love for others, thinking of others for their own well being and forgetting about oneself needs if necessary
l. giving, freeliy giving, this vocabulary seems absent (we have getting instead)
m. a need for openness, for the absence of secrecy
n. absolute respect for the freedom of others
o. the will for joy
p. will and desire for personal and collective evolution to be implemented
p. service to others orientation
q. wisdom, those above in previous paragraph are really based on basic flesh and bone desires
r. the soul is always absent

To know the base root of the problems of pedophilia, we have to adress the base roots of humanity's problems. As we cannot do it on down to earth practicality, we have to adress those roots within their main functioning framwork and pedophilia is one of them.

So now some statistics that are informative to see what is going on, but won't help into correcting the problem if we do not take corrective specific actions


Statistics on Pedophiles
•Sixty-seven percent of all victims of sexual assault reported to law enforcementagencies were juveniles (under the age of 18) 34% of all victims were under age 12.
•One of every seven victims of sexual assault reported to law enforcement were under age 6.
•8 out of 10 prisoners convicted of sexual assault had committed their crime against a victim under age 18.
•Convicted rape and sexual assault offenders serving time in State prisons report that two-thirds of their victims were under the age of 18, and 58% of those–or nearly 4 in 10 imprisoned violent sex offenders–said their victims were aged 12 or younger.
•Four data sets (the FBI’s UCR arrests, State felony court convictions, prison admissions, and the National Crime Victimization Survey) all point to a sex offender who is older than other violent offenders, generally in his early 30′s, and more likely to be white than other violent offenders.
•On a given day in 1994 there were approximately 234,000 offenders convicted of rape or sexual assault under the care, custody or control of corrections agnecies: nearly 60% of these sex offenders are under conditional supervision in the community.
•An estimated 24% of those serving time for rape and 19% of those serving time for sexual assault had been on probation or parole at the time of the offense for which they were in State prison in 1991. ( U.S. Department of Justice)
•Sex offenders were about four times more likely than non-sex offenders to be arrested for another sex crime after their discharge from prison–5.3% of sex offenders vs 1.3% of non-sex offenders.
•A 1994 National Institute of Health survey of 453 pedophiles, conducted by Dr. Gene Abel, showed these criminals were collectively responsible for the molestation of over 67,000 children. That’s an average of 148 children per individual pedophile.
•An estimated 5.1% (1 of every 20 persons) will serve time in prison during their lifetime. (Criminal Offenders Statistics)
•“62.5% of 108,580 persons released from prison in 1983 were re-asserted for a felony or serious misdemeanor within 3 years.”
•(Bureau of Justice Standards.)
•“2/3rds of Sex Offenders in State Prisons had victimized a Child.’ (Bureau of Justice Standards.)
•“60% of 234,000 sexual offenders in 1994 convicted of rape or sexual assault were under conditional supervision in the community.”
•“The median age of the victims of imprisoned sexual offenders was less than 13 years old.” (Bureau of Justice Standards.)
•“4 in 10 inmates serving time in jail for intimate violence were on probation or parole at the time of the violent attack on the intimate (someone they knew)’ (Criminal Offenders Statistics)
•80% of inmates serving time in State Prison for intimate violence had injured or killed their victim.” (Criminal Offenders Statistics)
•“96% of female rape victims in 1991, younger than 12 years old, knew their attackers. 20% were victimized by their fathers or step-fathers.” (US Department of Justice)
•Children younger than 18 were the victims in almost 20% of the violent crimes committed by State Prisoners. 50% were 12 years old or younger. (U.S. Department of Justice.)
•25% of prisoners who victimized children had prior convictions for violent crimes. (U.S. Department of Justice.)
•Between 1976 and 1994, almost 37,000 children were murdered. 66% were less than 1 years old and 58% of those from 1 to 4 years old were killed by beating with fists, or blunt objects or by kicking. (U.S. Department of Justice.) “Family Members or Acquaintances commit most of the Child Murders.” (Bureau of Criminal Justice Standards.)
•1 in 5 violent offenders serving time in a State prison reported having victimized a child.
•More than half the violent crimes committed against children involved victims age 12 or younger.
•7 in 10 offenders with child victims reported that they were imprisoned for a rape or sexual assault.
•Two-thirds of all prisoners convicted of rape or sexual assault had committed their crime against a child.
•All but 3% of offenders who committed violent crimes against children were male.
•Offenders who had victimized a child were on average 5 years older than the violent offenders who had committed their crimes against adults.
•Nearly 25% of child victimizers were age 40 or older, but about 10% of the inmates with adult victims fell in that age range.
•While nearly 70% of those serving time for violent crimes against children were white, whites accounted for 40% of those imprisoned for violent crimes against adults.
•Inmates who victimized children were less likely than other inmates to have a prior criminal record–nearly a third of child-victimizers had never been arrested prior to the current offense, compared to less than 20% of those who victimized adults.
•Violent child-victimizers were substantially more likely than those with adult victims to have been physically or sexually abused when they were children, though the majority of violent offenders, regardless of victim age, did not have a history of such abuse.
•About 14% of child victimizers carried a weapon during the violent crime, compared to nearly half of those who victimized adults.
•About 10% of violent offenders with child victims received life or death sentences and the average prison term was 11 years, somewhat shorter average sentences than received by those with adult victims.
•3 in 10 child victimizers reported that they had committed their crimes against multiple victims; they were more likely than those who victimized adults to have had multiple victims.
•3 in 4 child victims of violence were female.
•For the vast majority of child victimizers in State prison, the victim was someone they knew before the crime.
•A third had committed their crime against their own child, about half had a relationship with the victim as a friend, acquaintance, or relative other than offspring. About 1 in 7 reported the victim to have been a stranger to them.
•Three-quarters of the violent victimizations of children took place in either the victim’s home or the offender’s home.
•4 in 10 child victims of violence suffered either a forcible rape or another injury
• Statistics
• The Statistics of Teacher sexual abuse to Students
•The best estimate is that 15% of students will be sexually abused by a member of the school staff during their school career.
•Though, when the American Association of University Women Foundation surveyed more than 1,600 students in eighth through 11th grade, 25 percent of the girls and 10 percent of the boys who said they had been harassed or abused said the harasser was a school employee.
•The number of K-12 public and private school students in 1996 who have been or will be sexually abused by a member of the school staff is nearly 7 million of 51,331,000.
•Between 1% and 5% of teachers sexually abuse or harass students.
•At least a quarter of all school districts in the United States have dealt with a case of staff sexual abuse in the past ten years.
•Most cases of sexual abuse of students by teachers are never reported.
•In nearly half of the cases, suspects were accused of abusing more than one student.
•Only two cases were cases of false accusations; less than 1 percent of the cases studied.
•No type of school was immune to abuse: public or private, religious or secular, rich or poor, urban or rural.
• Responses to Allegations of Sexual Abuse of Students by Staff
•38.7% of the teachers resigned, left the district, or retired
•17.5% were spoken to informally
•15% were terminated or not re-hired
•11.3% received a formal verbal or written reprimand
•8.1% were suspended and then resumed teaching
•7.5% were cases where the superintendent determined that the teacher hadn’t meant to sexually abuse
•Of the nearly 54% of abusers who resigned, weren’t rehired, retired, or were terminated, superintendents reported that 16% were teaching in other schools and that they didn’t know what had happened to the other 84%. All but 1% of these teachers retained their teaching license.
• Teacher Student Sex Legalities
•In 20 states, it is not a crime for school employees—including teachers, administrators, and coaches—to have sex with students aged 16 and over.
•In 23 states, it is not a crime for school employees to have sex with students aged 17 and over.
•In 45 states, it is not a crime for school employees to have sex with students aged 18 and over.
•In 16 states, it is a crime for adults in a position of trust and authority—teachers, administrators, and coaches among them—to have sex with students under the age of 18.
• Child Pornography and the Internet
•It is estimated that 500 million people worldwide will be connected to the Internet by 2003.
•There are an estimated 100,000 Web sites involved in some way with child pornography.
•The U.S. Customs Cyber Smuggling Center in Fairfax, Virginia, has reviewed more than 10,000 tips since January 2000.
•A 1999 U.S. Customs case revealed a child pornography Web site that in its first three months recorded nearly 150,000 hits and the download of 3.2 million images.
•Since 1992, the U.S. Customs Service has arrested more than 1,000 people on charges related to child pornography. Customs has never lost a case that has gone to the judicial process — defendants have either pleaded guilty or have been convicted.
•Almost 24 million children ages 10 to 17 were online regularly in 1999.
•A survey conducted in 2000 of 1,501 U.S. children ages 10 to 17 showed that about 1 in 4 had had unwanted exposure to an image of naked people or people having sex in the previous year.
•Roughly 1 in 5 children had received a sexual solicitation or approach.
•One in 33 children had received an aggressive solicitation, meaning that someone asked them to meet somewhere, or called on the phone, or sent them a regular e-mail, money or gifts.
•Less than 10 percent of sexual solicitations and only 3 percent of unwanted exposure episodes were ever reported to authorities, including law enforcement agencies or Internet providers.
•Arrests for possessing and distributing child pornography have been climbing steadily, in part because federal agencies are devoting more resources to the issue.
•In fiscal year 1992, U.S. Customs recorded 57 arrests for possession of child pornography transported across borders, 48 indictments and 69 convictions.
•By 2000, those numbers had grown to 320 arrests, 299 indictments and 324 convictions.
http://www.cpiu.us/statistics-2/

This is just one group of studies in the USA, there is thousand of them worlwide. And we have not adressed the satanism problem that is at least a subset of the pedophilia problem.

[Delight]

This thread has been going many places. Entrapment is wrong. It is a technique to take a base impulse and encourage its expression. It cannot do anything but create criminals who might have never acted on a base impulse. I believe many men and women if HONEST would admit to inappropriate thoughts and feelings. Some people have stunted sexual maturity. Others believe they could gain power through rape. I think this is something about biology meets enculturation of power stripping. Only a person with one's own true power and conscious ability to wield it is immune.

Could it be that all of these problems will never be solved as long as we make it real that children and females are "prizes".

Child innocence and females (or males) as beautiful, nubile, malleable, disposable objects of power gratification is at issue IMO. The age just gets younger but the principles hark back to marriage being the transfer of property from father (or family) to husband (or family). The way we look at sex is about "trophies" going to a high bidder. It is more often a male over female inequality because more men have the opportunity to bid in the market.

It is a nasty nasty nasty set of agreements that "drinking" sexual juice gives power. Actually I do not think it is true as we are multidimensional and to take is a major hurdle at the "level" it counts.

Rape is power over another to take that juice. Rape is a thought form. To the victors go the spoils of a ripe woman or child, boy or girl to violate. Who is "ripe" and succulent enough is an agreement. Rape can be consensual if the female agrees to sex in return for her life. Rape is feared because no one wants to be violated.

In the US, one can see from the MSM that girls are desiring attention from males and think from the MSM training that "sexy" is necessary. Apparently lots and lots of girls put sexy pictures up and are rated by their peers. To be rated below par is a bullying that leads to self denigration.

I recall that in Africa, young virgins are highly prized because of men's fear of getting AIDs

In many countless places young girls are married off to older men so they will be gaurenteed pure. The honor killings of maintaining purity are accepted legally.

In Mormon cults, polygamy and child marriage happens in the US.

[Sierra]

I doesn't matter if its a disorder or not, its the behavior ( I work in psychiatry, don't like all aspects of it at all but there you go, thats what I do for a living), if an adult cant figure out what equality is in relationships, something's up, and more often then not, not in a good way, I see no need for intellectualizing this to death at all, common sense is all one needs here, when two equals either in age or in mature mutual understanding of each others needs find themselves on common grounds, go for it, but as soon as coercion/manipulation/lying/deceiving gets involved just to get ones way ( a corny clumsy somewhat adorable pickup line is the least of those evils btw imo, and even that could work if the attention put in the effort is appreciated), there is something not right, I'll leave it at that.

I think it does matter where the behavior stems from, simply because the problem is so horrifically prevalent, not just in our culture, but around the world.

Something is indeed not right, and while I know incest is generational, most pedophiles were molested themselves, might making right contributes to the problem, poverty can cause children being put up for sale, there is something happening here where a lot of men do not understand equality, and I ask myself why is it, the traditionally powerful sex, feel so powerless, they must rape little children?

And why is the cause so unknown? There has to be a contributing factor we do not address.

I am going to sound like a mighty dumb-dumb here, but it is my opinion that circumcision, the painful, unwarranted cutting of a new born baby's sexual equipment (hello!) is a key factor in this issue. It is a splitting into altered states. It is a confirmation below consciousness, that one is helpless, violated, no one can be trusted, most certainly not one's parents. And what is the point of this Christian, Jewish, and Islamic injunction, that creates DID in vast swaths of the world population? A population of cannon fodder, filled with unidentified rage and aggression, to be used by the PTB, who are a population also severely traumatized by their own, usually by the age of eighteen months by the use of rape and torture.

Sierra

[Agape]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liminality

Liminality


In anthropology, liminality (from the Latin word līmen, meaning "a threshold"[1]) is the quality of ambiguity or disorientation that occurs in the middle stage of rituals, when participants no longer hold their pre-ritual status but have not yet begun the transition to the status they will hold when the ritual is complete. During a ritual's liminal stage, participants "stand at the threshold" between their previous way of structuring their identity, time, or community, and a new way, which the ritual establishes.
The concept of liminality was first developed in the early 20th century by anthropologist Arnold van Gennep and later taken up by Victor Turner.[2] More recently, usage of the term has broadened to describe political and cultural change as well as rituals.[3] During liminal periods of all kinds, social hierarchies may be reversed or temporarily dissolved, continuity of tradition may become uncertain, and future outcomes once taken for granted may be thrown into doubt.[4] The dissolution of order during liminality creates a fluid, malleable situation that enables new institutions and customs to become established.[5] The term has also passed into popular usage, where it is applied much more broadly, undermining its significance to some extent.[6



It's fairly difficult issue to asses , globally ..as anything to do with sex is considered tabu in human society , as we are approaching new millennium,

of what we hope to be ,

more ascended , elevated, sublime and cultured form of human society on earth ,
more peaceful and more enlightened times ..

What Sierra has addressed is very plausible in my opinion , where we are dealing with problem of unknown potential . The problem is called 'the mankind' .

The 'animal instincts' that aid and protect our survival and survival of the species , depend on subtlety of its living force . While we all experience some of those animal instincts or can potentially experience them in human body

we have 'control mechanisms' inbuilt and functioning in our brain and neural system etc .

capable of switching defense mechanisms on and off . Thus , we train will power and consider ourselves 'moral beings' .

The bad news is , to survive in current version of human society, you need both to work in cooperation ,
if you give up on your atavisms completely , you won't fit in quite anywhere, not with the Reps and not with the Mammals .

Any developing biological feature is genetic cause for evolution of non-specific mind set .

It clearly shows that there 2 co-dependent dimensions functioning in human mind set, one is pure human abstract , archetype, it is not 'new' as some modern philosophers claim,
they existed millions of years ago, as well as thousands of years ago , within human genome, culture and society .

It's always been a 'problem' on the Earth but there is all the new answer to it available at all times and that is .. ''grow up''


It was essentially a time of uncertainty which, most importantly, involved entire civilizations. Seeing as liminal periods are both destructive and constructive, the ideas and practices that emerge from these liminal historical periods are of extreme importance, as they will “tend to take on the quality of structure”.[49] Events such as political or social revolutions (along with other periods of crisis) can thus be considered liminal, as they result in the complete collapse of order and can lead to significant social change.[50]
Liminality in large-scale societies differs significantly from liminality found in ritual passages in small-scale societies. One primary characteristic of liminality (as defined van Gennep and Turner) is that there is a way in as well as a way out.[51] In ritual passages, “members of the society are themselves aware of the liminal state: they know that they will leave it sooner or later, and have ‘ceremony masters’ to guide them through the rituals”.[52] However, in those liminal periods that affect society as a whole, the future (what comes after the liminal period) is completely unknown, and there is no "ceremony master" who has gone through the process before and that can lead people out of it.[53]
In such cases, liminal situations can become dangerous. They allow for the emergence of “self-proclaimed ceremony masters”, that assume leadership positions and attempt to “[perpetuate] liminality and by emptying the liminal moment of real creativity, [turn] it into a scene of mimetic rivalry”.[54]



:faint:

[enfoldedblue]

Hi Nanoo :) ,

I guess what got me in your reply was the comment 'it takes two to tango'. Because for me this implies a shared responsibility, when in reality, the fact that one is an adult with adult awareness and one is a child with a very limited world view (naïve) there is a huge imbalance of power that is not being acknowledged in that statement. And this imbalance of power is the central problem here.

However, one thing that I will add is that while I do believe there is profound corruption at the higher levels in regard to dealing with paedophiles, I also think that in the general population paedophilia is so demonized that it makes it difficult for people who become aware of these destructive urges in themselves to seek help. Left in the darkness and secrecy these tendencies fester and eventually the person may be compelled to act these urges.

I have a friend who discovered during some deep work that he had urges in this direction. Luckily he was surrounded by progressive aware people who were capable of assisting him to examine these urges and I believe that by bringing them out in the open, assisted them to be diffused and healed.

Yes and why is it after all this time together you get angry at me ? why do people assume the worst of each other ?

people react with anger to someone asking questions to try to understand the subject matter .. i need to understand whats happening because i dont know much about it ..

I had this happen when i was trying to understand another thread here.. i asked questions and all i got was page after page of abuse ... and some of those people are here in this thread ..

man whats wrong with you guys ? should i just not care or pay attention , just ignore it ? is that what you want ?

the anger you have should be directed in other ways. not to blast innocent parties.

tell me ? cos i dont get your anger towards a family member trying to understand the machinations behind it all.

you assume i have all the info you do .. if that was the case then why be on a forum to gain info and engage in discussion ?

yes it takes two to tango .. if the girl wasnt there there would be nothing take place so whats the cause of that ? why is that girl there ? is she there of her own volition? ( my assumption ) or is tshe there for any myriad of other reasons ? what i want to know is why is it happening ? who is creating the supply for the demand ?

This anger towards me for this is abuse , its un warranted , if you want to make a difference you cant go around on a witch hunt burning everyone at the cross.

man i am just over it.

if there are figures to the contrary or figures for the arguments put forth cant you quote them ? they would be attached to articles i immagine that would have more background for people like me who are not up to speed.

do you get where i am coming from ?

your assumptions ( generally speaking ) truly show a lack of required leadership and compassion needed when trying to negotiate support for these sensitive issues.

and we can argue till the cows come home

but its not helping the kids is it ?

Anger towards a family member? Nanoo I was not angry in the least in my reply...and even put in a smiley face to make sure that was clear :) I am sorry you percieved my response as angry. I was only...as a friend... pointing out the statement that I felt was troublesome in your reply. I was hoping to add clarity...not attack.

[Vitalux]

In the past 20 years I have observed this topic of the OP come up over and over again in forums.

In almost all, if not all cases, its ends up being a circus of drama. :drama:

It is also my hypothesis, that most the members of Avalon that avoid viewing or engaging in dialogue in this posting are far more enlightened than I. :yo:

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Nanoo,

Your attempt to get discussion about the problem with objectivity is being ignored/rebutted by some. You are attempting to get to the root cause, of how did the situation get to where it is. So maybe your question should be, What is the cause for all the sexual deviant thoughts spreading throughout society? Both the young and old are being affected by the derived thoughts. Anyone who has a TV on allows this type of garbage into their home. Your inquiry is valid and it is a shame that some redicule instead of explaining to help one learn root cause. You are a placeholder here so hold it securely. Science today generally treats symptoms not causes, this is evident in general health as well as mental health. Thank you for your input!

Peace!

Thank you, you are wise and can see what i am trying to do. I just hope others can see it too.

My orignal statement " it takes two to tango " is an obvious one. If one could read on i ask the question .. but nobody answered it for me but rather concentrated on the former. My apologies for not using the best syntax to express my self but i would hope your knowledge of who i am, would see you past this...

I understand this is a sensitive issue and emotions are high, some people in here have never been a victim to pedophelia ? i dont know the stats , but i have. I have lived through it my self and while i do not speak for all cases i speak for ones similar to mine. Flash , you know this .. i have spoken to you before about my experiences.

I dont want pity , if i was to deconstruct my experiences i would have to say 3 out of 4 of them were encouraged by my curiocity and 3 of them were with older women... yes women who engaged freely in pedofelic acts with a 10 year old boy... Did i report it ? no ... why would i ... i wanted the interaction, why ? because i was curious. The stats on these cases , and i can assure you there are plenty , would never see the light of day... And i know this because i have pondered the scenarios many many times and from every concieveable angle. so it would be natural , from my experience and nievity to assume that most of these cases are concentual, loosley speaking, or at least sparked by curiocity. I guess i just cant get my head around a parent forcing a child to do these sorts of acts. Surely this is an economic issue thats created norms that differ morality ?
Not that this is an excuse however, when people are starving they will do anything to feed them selves.

Previous comments about wanting to get to the root of the cause as opposed to dealing with symptoms has my attention and is what i am concerned with.

Tyring to deal with immoral pedders is going to be very frustrating. While i know these people clearly need help the fast track way to curb this is to look at the supply first, to enact fast change.

So i believe while " Sweetie " is a great way to loure potential offenders to be on a data base i think its a mis guided attempt and only deals with the symptom.

I would offer some insight from the perspective of a victim however i am sheepish of offering information for fear of ridicule.
I was clearly done with this place in my mind but my heart beats louder than that grey matter up stairs.


Please i ask only in future not to ridicule me , but rather see past your own angers while dealing in these matters. Please recall who i am to you before you speak... i hope that i have earned this in some of you ...

N

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Hi Nanoo :) ,

I guess what got me in your reply was the comment 'it takes two to tango'. Because for me this implies a shared responsibility, when in reality, the fact that one is an adult with adult awareness and one is a child with a very limited world view (naïve) there is a huge imbalance of power that is not being acknowledged in that statement. And this imbalance of power is the central problem here.

However, one thing that I will add is that while I do believe there is profound corruption at the higher levels in regard to dealing with paedophiles, I also think that in the general population paedophilia is so demonized that it makes it difficult for people who become aware of these destructive urges in themselves to seek help. Left in the darkness and secrecy these tendencies fester and eventually the person may be compelled to act these urges.

I have a friend who discovered during some deep work that he had urges in this direction. Luckily he was surrounded by progressive aware people who were capable of assisting him to examine these urges and I believe that by bringing them out in the open, assisted them to be diffused and healed.

Yes and why is it after all this time together you get angry at me ? why do people assume the worst of each other ?

people react with anger to someone asking questions to try to understand the subject matter .. i need to understand whats happening because i dont know much about it ..

I had this happen when i was trying to understand another thread here.. i asked questions and all i got was page after page of abuse ... and some of those people are here in this thread ..

man whats wrong with you guys ? should i just not care or pay attention , just ignore it ? is that what you want ?

the anger you have should be directed in other ways. not to blast innocent parties.

tell me ? cos i dont get your anger towards a family member trying to understand the machinations behind it all.

you assume i have all the info you do .. if that was the case then why be on a forum to gain info and engage in discussion ?

yes it takes two to tango .. if the girl wasnt there there would be nothing take place so whats the cause of that ? why is that girl there ? is she there of her own volition? ( my assumption ) or is tshe there for any myriad of other reasons ? what i want to know is why is it happening ? who is creating the supply for the demand ?

This anger towards me for this is abuse , its un warranted , if you want to make a difference you cant go around on a witch hunt burning everyone at the cross.

man i am just over it.

if there are figures to the contrary or figures for the arguments put forth cant you quote them ? they would be attached to articles i immagine that would have more background for people like me who are not up to speed.

do you get where i am coming from ?

your assumptions ( generally speaking ) truly show a lack of required leadership and compassion needed when trying to negotiate support for these sensitive issues.

and we can argue till the cows come home

but its not helping the kids is it ?

Anger towards a family member? Nanoo I was not angry in the least in my reply...and even put in a smiley face to make sure that was clear :) I am sorry you percieved my response as angry. I was only...as a friend... pointing out the statement that I felt was troublesome in your reply. I was hoping to add clarity...not attack.

I am sorry i got angry at you .. just some people on here snap me with un nessesary anger energy... i am a sensitive remember ,.. when i read words i feel peoples anger and hurt and feelings as well and this effects me .. Part of the reason why my " friends " wanted me to leave here. The stress it causes me is considerable. While beaing a sensitive is not something i would wish on anybody , it is still my function. While my mind has been wiped of some info i still have a deep yearning to be here .. and while i am i just want to have the real love and respect of my family.

hugs

N

[Sierra]

Hey Nanoo, it is a tough tough subject. Thank you for sharing your experiences, it makes much more sense where you are coming from. In your case, it sounds as if on some level, you gave your consent. This make a HUGE difference to the psyche of a child, I assume.

As for those women though... Humph.

In most cases, it is family forcing unconsenting sex on children or pedophiliacs raping their way through hundreds or thousands of children, and that is the source of feelings that produce posts that can cause burns.

Hang in there, you are loved. :)

Love, Sierra

[Flash]

Nanoo,

Your attempt to get discussion about the problem with objectivity is being ignored/rebutted by some. You are attempting to get to the root cause, of how did the situation get to where it is. So maybe your question should be, What is the cause for all the sexual deviant thoughts spreading throughout society? Both the young and old are being affected by the derived thoughts. Anyone who has a TV on allows this type of garbage into their home. Your inquiry is valid and it is a shame that some redicule instead of explaining to help one learn root cause. You are a placeholder here so hold it securely. Science today generally treats symptoms not causes, this is evident in general health as well as mental health. Thank you for your input!

Peace!

Thank you, you are wise and can see what i am trying to do. I just hope others can see it too.

My orignal statement " it takes two to tango " is an obvious one. If one could read on i ask the question .. but nobody answered it for me but rather concentrated on the former. My apologies for not using the best syntax to express my self but i would hope your knowledge of who i am, would see you past this...

I understand this is a sensitive issue and emotions are high, some people in here have never been a victim to pedophelia ? i dont know the stats , but i have. I have lived through it my self and while i do not speak for all cases i speak for ones similar to mine. Flash , you know this .. i have spoken to you before about my experiences.

I dont want pity , if i was to deconstruct my experiences i would have to say 3 out of 4 of them were encouraged by my curiocity and 3 of them were with older women... yes women who engaged freely in pedofelic acts with a 10 year old boy... Did i report it ? no ... why would i ... i wanted the interaction, why ? because i was curious. The stats on these cases , and i can assure you there are plenty , would never see the light of day... And i know this because i have pondered the scenarios many many times and from every concieveable angle. so it would be natural , from my experience and nievity to assume that most of these cases are concentual, loosley speaking, or at least sparked by curiocity. I guess i just cant get my head around a parent forcing a child to do these sorts of acts. Surely this is an economic issue thats created norms that differ morality ?
Not that this is an excuse however, when people are starving they will do anything to feed them selves.

Previous comments about wanting to get to the root of the cause as opposed to dealing with symptoms has my attention and is what i am concerned with.

Tyring to deal with immoral pedders is going to be very frustrating. While i know these people clearly need help the fast track way to curb this is to look at the supply first, to enact fast change.

So i believe while " Sweetie " is a great way to loure potential offenders to be on a data base i think its a mis guided attempt and only deals with the symptom.

I would offer some insight from the perspective of a victim however i am sheepish of offering information for fear of ridicule.
I was clearly done with this place in my mind but my heart beats louder than that grey matter up stairs.


Please i ask only in future not to ridicule me , but rather see past your own angers while dealing in these matters. Please recall who i am to you before you speak... i hope that i have earned this in some of you ...

N

Naniu,I do not intend to lead and direct that thread but I swear that I will do anything in my power to protect you and your witnessing in terms of the victim that you could bring here. i will not allow anyone to bring ridicule on your witnessing and information.

I did know a bit about your thinking but you had not told me about being molested by women when you were that Young. If I had been there, and aware of it then, at that time, I woud have protected you with all my wit and used any fierce power i may have had to do so.

I do think that, altough you were curious, those women were abusers. The role of adults is to protect the children of their own curiosity, like a mommy bear protects her cubs when they wander around. This is the role of any decent human being towards the Young ones.

Also, the role of parents or adults with Young teenagers, who are starting to flirt because precisely they are starting to practice their attribute towards futur sexuality, the role of a human adult, who has the honor of being really humane in attitude, its role is to refuse the advance while respecting and appreciating the blooming sexuality, so that the Young will turn around towards its own generation freely and with sanity (of course, I am talking of kids teenagers here, 9-16/18 at the most, below they are children). Thati is what a dad should do, a mom should do. Very well known in psychology.

Now, what some of my dear friends who had been sold to adult males by her dad, from the age of 4 told me:

The pain of some who had to submit to pedophiles when young and do it in turn to others is terrible. It is more and foremost psychological, although physical pain is there and fright. She told me it was a miracle she did not turn out to be an adult prostitute. Most children that were harassed did like it at the same time that they truly disliked it and this it what makes it so confusing for them. Like/hate, pleasure/pain, guilt and shame at the same time. She said this was her experience or hate/likes, pleasure/pain, guild and shame, total confusion. Those children are usually pushed into sex much too early.

There is no pity here Naniu, just love,

All my love to you

Flash

[Flash]

Hey Nanoo, it is a tough tough subject. Thank you for sharing your experiences, it makes much more sense where you are coming from. In your case, it sounds as if on some level, you gave your consent. This make a HUGE difference to the psyche of a child, I assume.

As for those women though... Humph.

In most cases, it is family forcing unconsenting sex on children or pedophiliacs raping their way through hundreds or thousands of children, and that is the source of feelings that produce posts that can cause burns.

Hang in there, you are loved. :)

Love, Sierra

Sierra, the simingly consent makes a difference only on the surface. In fact, it may even be more confusing to the child. It seems that even at 4, the child somewhere wonders if he/she is not givnig consent. Overall, they feel as if they did, because they got some pleasure/pain and attention from it. Very confusing and may be detrimental to their development. See my post above.

[Sierra]

Hey Nanoo, it is a tough tough subject. Thank you for sharing your experiences, it makes much more sense where you are coming from. In your case, it sounds as if on some level, you gave your consent. This make a HUGE difference to the psyche of a child, I assume.

As for those women though... Humph.

In most cases, it is family forcing unconsenting sex on children or pedophiliacs raping their way through hundreds or thousands of children, and that is the source of feelings that produce posts that can cause burns.

Hang in there, you are loved. :)

Love, Sierra

Sierra, the simingly consent makes a difference only on the surface. In fact, it may even be more confusing to the child. It seems that even at 4, the child somewhere wonders if he/she is not givnig consent. Overall, they feel as if they did, because they got some pleasure/pain and attention from it. Very confusing and may be detrimental to their development. See my post above.

I saw your post. :). I'll let Nanoo answer you if he wishes though, because he is here, and he knows far better than I can possibly guess, what it was like for him.

Love, Sierra

[Flash]

Hey Nanoo, it is a tough tough subject. Thank you for sharing your experiences, it makes much more sense where you are coming from. In your case, it sounds as if on some level, you gave your consent. This make a HUGE difference to the psyche of a child, I assume.

As for those women though... Humph.

In most cases, it is family forcing unconsenting sex on children or pedophiliacs raping their way through hundreds or thousands of children, and that is the source of feelings that produce posts that can cause burns.

Hang in there, you are loved. :)

Love, Sierra

Sierra, the simingly consent makes a difference only on the surface. In fact, it may even be more confusing to the child. It seems that even at 4, the child somewhere wonders if he/she is not givnig consent. Overall, they feel as if they did, because they got some pleasure/pain and attention from it. Very confusing and may be detrimental to their development. See my post above.

I saw your post. :). I'll let Nanoo answer you if he wishes though, because he is here, and he knows far better than I can possibly guess, what it was like for him.

Love, Sierra

I agree..................

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Hey Nanoo, it is a tough tough subject. Thank you for sharing your experiences, it makes much more sense where you are coming from. In your case, it sounds as if on some level, you gave your consent. This make a HUGE difference to the psyche of a child, I assume.

As for those women though... Humph.

In most cases, it is family forcing unconsenting sex on children or pedophiliacs raping their way through hundreds or thousands of children, and that is the source of feelings that produce posts that can cause burns.

Hang in there, you are loved. :)

Love, Sierra

Well i wouldnt have a go at those women .. not till you understand them. Every one of them was lonely ... and i was curious ... we never had sex but we did things ... and i very much enjoyed the interaction because it stisfied my curiocity. I loved them very much in all honesty and if i could have i would have them all in my harem and love them all ... because what causes such desperation in these poor souls to do such things ? to seemingly degrade them selves to having sexual relations with a boy ?

i believe they experienced shame in these acts but the want to experience pure love was stronger and i sensed they saw in me a pure surce of love , one that would no hurt them , or betray them.

I sought these interactions out, they senced it , and nature took care of the rest.

These women wanted love , they were lonely , they just wanted to experience love. So i do not hold them in contempt but rather be accountable for my part in this interaction.

I remember the details so vividly , not the sexual interactions , but the feelings , the emotions , i knew every though they had , and i listened to them talk ... they expressed their loneliness , how their affairs ended and left them in dispair ( and one was a lesbian actually )

we cannot judge them because we do not know their intricasies .. while the interactions differ on many levels between male and female pedders they essence is very similar.. in wanting to tap into a scource of pure love.. it is a sort of healing process for them , i sensed this greatly.

from the reverse angle i sensed the purity of love they gave too , it was very powerful and this interaction and feeling intrigued me and it fed me ...i had experienced love energy before but not quite like this ... remember i was a sensitive then too .. more so than now , my sences back then were so acute .. so i tapped into this and explored it.

If i can take away one definite piece of fact from this is the motivation , at its most inceptive place , is the need to love or experience love on a pure level. We dont realise it but we sence it that children are a scource of pure love.

N

[Flash]

I can't barely look at this video. This is exactly how the girls think at first, when flirting on Facebook, and how defenseless they may be when preyed upon. I am sure it is the same for preyed upon boys.

When my daughter was four, she needed ears surgery. We were at the ORL office waiting for her turn. The wait was long.

A men, waiting with a woman, came over to my daughter and started to make magic tricks. She found it funny and was mesmerized. He spat in front of her and continued his magic.

After a few mnutes, he started to ask her questions, as in the books: where do you live, what is your name, is your dad with you, to which she would answer. I could not believe it.

I was hesitating, not sure of what was happening.

We were just back from Turkey for the surgery, and she answered that we live in Canada, lol, not very indicative. She answered my name is X (she carries her second name but the doctor had her first name), my dad is at home (they prey on women alone with children, it is easier), etc.

Then he proceeded to squeeze her knees, to which she said "mom, this hurts". At that point, I took her on me, starting to understand that he was after her.

I had problem to process it, right in the open in a doctor's office, this did not make sense, I could not believe what I was seeing.

We were finally called on the intercom, with her first name, and the guy said "oh, this must be your name misses Y", he had remembered and noticed.

We went to the doctor appointment and came back and took a very crowded elevator down, me holding my daughter's hand.

When we got out of the elevator, he was walking out holding her other hand. My heart stopped, I almost fainted.

I pulled my daughter away, started walking fast, checking if we were followed.

We went in the car and my daughter said "I want the mister" to which I answered "no, this is a bad mister" and she insisted "no mommy, this is a good mister".

I really freaked out, in less than 10 minutes she had been groomed, right in front of me. He went like in Oprah's book, item by item.

I did a big detour to make sure I was not followed. As he had a name that was not in the phone book, my real daughter's name, I was not afraid that he would trace us back. However, how many children has he traced back??

I understood from then on that children had no power over these pedophiles. Even their mothers have little power.

And no, it is not he children's choice. Their naivity is being abused for further selfish and hurtful purposes to be done on the child

Forgiving through understanding the reasons below such behavior is sane once one has become and adult, but nevertheless those behavior are not coming from equilibrated and healthy adults.

Not being able to fulfill ones needs for love through normal adult human relationships and using children to do so is abuse.

Even if the child wanted to know, curiosity in children is normal, wanting to use them for one's emotional or physical needs fulfillment is not. Even if one can understand and forgive, these adults were not having a normal behavior with children. And yes, there is pleasure and pain (emotional and physical) for the child, therefore the confusion - but when they are little, it is moslty only pain.

If one has desires for children, knowing that it does destroy them, one shoud get help.





Legally there was no real crime if the girl was fictitious in THIS case, on the other hand, when some perverted Tragic Johnson is so sexually inadequate that he even jerks off at the sight of a clearly digital created image of a ten year old girl or just the fantasy of a ten year old, you could say imo that we have a frustrated and very scary menace to society in the making or he has already arrived at that stage, I don't think its that big a stretch of the imagination to get a mental picture of what such a sorry excuse for a human being would do if he would get his hands on a child in the real world.

That's why I say to never leave your children alone with any adult, even relatives.

Most cases of pedophilia involve relatives and close family friends. It's sad, but it's the truth.

Always encourage your children to feel absolutely free to talk about anything that may be bothering them. Don't ever punish them for telling the truth and never ignore what they say. In a lot of cases, the parents don't believe their children when they accuse a friend or family member to have sexually abused them.

Teach your children about what is inappropriate adult behavior and that they should immediately report to you in case something like that happens to her/him.

The world is a mad place. Unfortunately, we have to teach our children about this madness, to minimize the risks of them learning it by themselves.

These men, the guys from the video, also have friends, families and even children of their own...Probably, nobody even suspects about their online crimes in real life. However, just give them the opportunity and they'll very probably make a reality out of their fantasies.

Society is sick, brother...

Anyway, here's a good movie about these kind of things. It's called "Trust", with Clive Owen. If you have preteen kids at home, I recommend to watch it with them:

zawGJvWsaaM

[Finefeather]

Hi to All.
An interesting subject which can be lead in many directions depending on morals, upbringing, and experience...to mention just a few.
So it would be worth little to try to debate the various exoteric 'solutions'...be they legal, medical, mental or whatever each has chosen to categories paedophilia into.
The only known is that the average world thought has branded it into the criminal category...psychology has deemed it a form of mental illness...and for some on some spiritual, religious or moral path...it has become a curse...and most likely linked to some 'evil' manifestation.

Whatever is the case in each of our personal views, it presents a troublesome scenario amongst the emotional and/or mental concepts we may have developed or are trying to figure out.

I would like to offer another approach based on esoterics. Not all will 'see' this now, but at least it will be out for consideration...even if not accepted by many.

When we consider the general health of a person we naturally look first at the physical side and diagnosis is often easy, based on the environment, eating habits, DNA, measurable scientific tests, and so forth. But...aside from these mundane physical factors lies a complex set of problems which are difficult to diagnose because science has not yet managed to look into other worlds or dimensions to study the many forces and energies which can effect us in profound ways.

It also seems as if more and more of these 'mystery' diseases and traits are manifesting, in lives, as life marches on...or...I should rather have said...as evolution marches on. If we look back in history we find evidence of every kind of illness and disease, 'they' just never worked it out in those days. Today as time marches on these 'mysterious' ailments are been focused on more and more because our entire thinking is directly been challenged, because of the status of our evolutionary growth.

Many are entering into the stage of our consciousness growth where violence and abnormality and conflict are the focal point for our attention. We need to become aware of the forces and energies which cause these 'abnormalities'.

Those who have delved into chakras and Reiky and crystals and the many portals of healing are quite happy to accept that the people who are having themselves healed are just unfortunate and will soon be back to 'normal' again...after the 'corrective session' with the healer.
But what about the rapist and the murderer and the paedophiles and the insanely jealous and the aggressive and the egotistical and the compulsive liar etc...are they not also ill...and do they not also need help?

We live in our little moral worlds all safe and snug and when a person with an unknown disease comes walking past, or is caught in the act of his/her overpowering emotional and mental battle...we want to capture them and lock them away...far away from our peaceful righteous world.

There is not one person/entity that is profoundly 'evil' in the entire cosmos. Absolute 'evil' does not exist. It is just those on the opposite side of the 'river' who we regard as on the wrong side of our own morality and belief and experience.

Of course we have to do everything possible to allow the 'afflicted' the time and help to work through their difficulties. Some are stronger than others because of their past experiences...is it not time for understanding, compassion and a desire to serve those in need?

The fact that some might be abhorred by these attitudes/actions/traits of some of us is due to our own lack of understanding...and possibly our own lack of experience of these energies and forces which manifest in our world.

These more profound 'psychological' dis-eases are the proof of what we can so easily get trapped into and it is the rescue of these brothers that we should concentrate on...not the incarceration of these...our brothers...the ones all 'knowers' seek unity with.

With love
Ray

[Flash]

I totally agree with the helping part of people with any trouble and dis-ease Finefeather.

However, in order to be helped, the problem must be admitted. Truth of what is happening must be adressed. Wanting to fulfill adult emotional needs with children as to be addressed. As long as you think this is alright, you cannot be helped.

And the hurt to the children has to be adressed too, instead of rebuttal. Albeit some are more hurt than others for different reasons.

This is step one in my views. Then step two can come, where we adress care and solutions.

Jail time does not solve anything usually for most people.

Thank you for your input Finefeather. In the greatest scheme of thing, you are right, nobody is pure evil. These situations are only describing how difficult life can be and how solutions to ones difficulties are often not optimal when putting the context altogether. Pedophilia is one of those.

[spiritguide]

Finefeather,

Your post was from the heart center with spiritually uplifting truth. IMHO

Peace!

[Eram]

Yeey

Canada brings down a large pedophile network :thumb:

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/11/14/toronto_man_charged_in_international_childporn_network_bust.html


Toronto man charged in huge worldwide child-porn bust
It was an extensive investigation that spanned the globe and resulted in charges against a Toronto man who detectives allege was at the centre of one of the largest child pornography rings they say they have ever seen.

Hundreds of thousand of the images found featured “horrific acts of sexual abuse — some of the worst (officers) have seen,” said Inspector Joanna Beaven-Desjardins, who heads the Toronto police’s sex crimes unit.

Those images — filling 45 terabytes or a stack of paper reaching as tall as 1,500 CN Towers — have, to date, triggered 341 arrests across the globe and led to the rescue of 386 children, police allege.

Officers from around the word involved in the case call it one of the largest and most geographically vast child pornography investigations in the world. About 30 of them from police forces across Ontario, Canada, the U.S., Spain, Mexico and Australia were at Toronto police headquarters for the announcement Thursday morning.
More Video


Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair called its investigation – named Project Spade – an “extraordinary example of international cooperation from law enforcement.”

The probe into the operation known as Azovfilms.com — and its proprietor, 41-year-old Brian Way — began in earnest in October 2010. For three years, detectives in Toronto, investigators in the United States and police overseas have been chasing the people who made the alleged child pornography, and the customers who bought it.

A team of Star reporters had exclusive, behind-the-scenes access to the child exploitation unit of the Toronto Police Services as they brought their three-year investigation to a conclusion.

All in all, 108 were arrested in Canada and another 76 in the United States. Overseas, 164 people face criminal action.

Way faces about two dozen charges of making, possessing, distributing, exporting and selling the explicit images of boys, who range in age from toddlers to teens. The videos, police allege, were edited, packaged and sold from his west Toronto warehouse.

Among his alleged Canadian clients are a Chatham hockey coach, a Toronto teacher, a priest and Scout leader in Quebec, and a retired high school principal in Nova Scotia.

In the United States, police officers, educators and medical professionals were among the people arrested.

Some people have pleaded guilty and are serving sentences; others remain before the courts, proclaiming their innocence.

The charges against Way have not yet been proven in court, and he declined repeated requests for an interview. His lawyer, Nyron Dwyer, also declined to comment.

Azovfilms.com was a sophisticated site, police say: it had an Amazon-esque interface, where clients could peruse Top 10 lists and reviews by other customers. There was a searchable catalogue, so those who knew what they wanted could go right to the desired title. And, of course, credit-card payments were accepted.

And the site also had a legal page, where customers were reassured the films were legal — “no film we sell violates Canadian or American law.” (The police must prove, and they have yet to do so, that the videos were for a sexual purpose, rather than artistic merit, in order to build a case for child exploitation.)

Investigators who have seen videos seized from Way’s warehouse after his May 2011 arrest say they feature all boys, all young. Some are very young.

During the raid on Way’s business and residence, police seized 1,000 pieces of evidence: computers, servers, DVD burners, a video editing suite and hundreds of movies.

They also found something that widened the scope of the Project Spade investigation. They discovered Way’s customer list.

Investigators spent the summer of 2011 screening the films, ultimately watching more than 500 of them. They painstakingly logged what they saw, and by the time they were done, they had counted 283,000 images of what they classed as child pornography.

They ultimately focused on more than 150 of the most troubling films. They cross-referenced them with the Azovfilms.com customer records and swooped on the people they believed had bought them.

There were 50 arrests in Ontario. A dozen search warrants were executed in Toronto. And the RCMP got involved, passing on leads to other law enforcement in Canada. Investigations took place around the world.

In Spain, the high-tech crime unit of the Spanish National Police led on the probe they called “Operation Espada.” In all, 42 people were investigated, and 19 children were rescued, said Chief Inspector Luis Garcia. He said looking into the backgrounds of the men who were arrested because of child pornography allegations often led to more serious charges.

“This is a crime which is hidden, and which without this kind of operation we can put to the light,” he said. “We can find hands-on abuse, and we could never have known about this in any other way.”

Way remains in custody. A preliminary inquiry in his case continues next month.

........]

[Cidersomerset]

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.54.3/desktop/3.5/img/blq-blocks_grey_alpha.png


14 November 2013 Last updated at 17:57

Hundreds held over Canada child pornToronto police (file pic)

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/71123000/jpg/_71123663_71119945.jpg
Inspector Joanna Beavan-Desjardins said 108 arrests were made across Canada


More than 108 arrests were made across Canada


Police in Canada say 348 people have been arrested and nearly 400 children
rescued during a three-year investigation into child pornography.

At the centre of the inquiry was a Toronto-based firm that allegedly sold DVDs and
streamed videos of naked children.Azov Films marketed the footage as "naturist"
and claimed it was legal in Canada and the US.

The films were distributed in 94 countries, police said.

In Canada 108 arrests were made, with another 76 in the US and 164 in other
countries during the investigation codenamed Project Spade.Inspector Joanna
Beavan-Desjardins, from Toronto police, said the number of suspects who had close
contact with children was of particular concern to investigators.

Doctors, school teachers, foster carers and priests were among those detained, she said.

The head of Azov Films, identified as Canadian Brian Way, 42, has been in custody
since his arrest in May 2011, following an undercover operation.

He is accused of paying people to film the children and has been charged with 11 offences.

The company has been shut down.

Identities

The Toronto Police Service (TPS) Child Exploitation Section was able to determine
the identities of customers using Azov Films' databases. US investigators then
joined the inquiry because many of the films were being exported to addresses in
America. Seven months later, a series of raids took place across Toronto, including
at a site owned by Azov Films and Brian Way, police said.

Among the other countries involved in the investigation were Australia, Spain,
Mexico, South Africa, Norway, Greece and the Republic of Ireland.

"It is alleged that officers located hundreds of thousands of images and videos
detailing horrific sexual acts against very young children - some of the worst they
have ever viewed," police told reporters.

Ms Beavan-Desjardins said that Canadian officers, executing a search warrant at
the home of a retired school teacher, found over 350,000 images and 9,000 videos
depicting child abuse, with some of the victims known to the man.

He was also charged with sexually abusing a young child relative, she said.

Gerald O'Farrell, Acting Deputy Chief Inspector of the US Postal Inspection Service,
said all the victims identified were pre-pubescent, with some as young as five years old.

Mr O'Farrell detailed the cases of several US residents investigated as part of
Project Spade, who have already pleaded guilty to crimes.

A school employee from Georgia, who had admitted receiving child pornography,
had placed a hidden video camera in the toilets used by school students, the
inspector said.

A pre-school teacher had pleaded guilty to producing child pornography while
teaching in Japan, he said.Mr O'Farrell said US postal inspectors had identified and
rescued 330 child victims as part of the investigation.Toronto police acknowledged
the assistance of a website, cybertip.ca, which allows for the online reporting of the
sexual exploitation of children.

The website had received many complaints about Azov Films which became the
basis for the investigation, TPS said.‪

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24944358

[seleka]

I just saw this one today. This is clearly part of the cabal's pedophile ring. So happy those children have been taken from that life. http://rt.com/news/hundreds-arrested-pornography-case-743/ So many are awake now, they can see! release all beings from suffering.

edit: the text I read above in another post is the same as in this article. I searched for rt.com, before posting, but apparently the story was run in multiple places.

[Milneman]

Ya, I know all about child abuse, thanks. And I grew up, well, almost normal. Let me tell you, pedophilia continues because others turn a blind eye, ignore complaints from minors, and when caught, get very light sentences. One case I know of, the guy abused children for decades - he had hundreds of victims and most were not well adjusted members of society since the travesty halted or otherwise altered their development. After a lengthy, media-blackout trial, the guy got less than two years. Hundreds of lives ruined and he got two years! I face the same for simple assault. Course, he prolly had money for a good defense. Go figure...
And we call it the justice system, ya right.

And they let Rob Ford coach kid's football........

[MaroonLagoon]

Nanoo I'm sorry if anything I wrote hurt your feelings :( or burned you or anyone else, I wasn't intending it as an attack or response to anything you said

I wish we had places set up where people could go to get better help for things like this if they want the help and think they might hurt someone, anonamously maybe, but as long as children's safety always comes first, as in if it's known someone is currently hurting a child the kid needs to be protected ASAP above all else. But a place where they could get real help, from people specifically trained to counsel and psychologically help pedophiles, like even online possibly private forums where there are people specifically trained to deal with this topic who can give people help. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people out there who just don't care if they are hurting people which I suspect is a lot of them but do we even have anything specific for this anywhere for people who would want the help aside from more broadly based psychology and counselling? How many people would take the opportunity for that? Would they?

My mom told me a while back about a group of pedophiles she heard about who had specifically told the public that they were moving together away to an area by themselves so they wouldn't hurt anyone anymore but I can't remember anything other than that about it.

I had more to say but I don't have time now so later hopefully

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Nanoo I'm sorry if anything I wrote hurt your feelings :( or burned you or anyone else, I wasn't intending it as an attack or response to anything you said

I wish we had places set up where people could go to get better help for things like this if they want the help and think they might hurt someone, anonamously maybe, but as long as children's safety always comes first, as in if it's known someone is currently hurting a child the kid needs to be protected ASAP above all else. But a place where they could get real help, from people specifically trained to counsel and psychologically help pedophiles, like even online possibly private forums where there are people specifically trained to deal with this topic who can give people help. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people out there who just don't care if they are hurting people which I suspect is a lot of them but do we even have anything specific for this anywhere for people who would want the help aside from more broadly based psychology and counselling? How many people would take the opportunity for that? Would they?

My mom told me a while back about a group of pedophiles she heard about who had specifically told the public that they were moving together away to an area by themselves so they wouldn't hurt anyone anymore but I can't remember anything other than that about it.

I had more to say but I don't have time now so later hopefully

Thank you Maroon Lagoon , i love you :0 )


N

[Star Tsar]

How much damage is corporate incompetance costing us in this matter?
I mean here in the UK a home internet user has to sign up to an Internet Service Provider in doing so the user must supply A) An address B) A credit/debit card
So why the hell can't the underfunded & understaffed CEOP (Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre (Police) ) & The OVERfunded & overstaffed ISP's put their coporate heads together and sort this out???????

Check out CEOP own stats for this past year qouted from source their very own website: http://ceop.police.uk/Media-Centre/Statistics-and-facts/

"CEOP received 18,887 reports relating to child sexual exploitation" & "CEOP activity led to the arrest of 192 suspects in the last year" :faint:

These stats are not a suprise when one considers that as of June this year CEOP only had 130 officers!!!! Thats a 50% increase according to Claire Perry MP http://www.claireperry.org.uk/ However former CEOP chief executive Jim Gamble claims their has been NO significant increase in the number of staff since he left the organisation in 2010 when the number of officers was 85!!!

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/383215/pms-child-abuse-police-figures-are-wrong-says-ex-ceop-chief

:frusty:

[GreenGuy]

I've never seen or heard about 10 years old children sexually flirting with adults by their own free and spontaneous decision.

Unfortunately I have...and it always turned out they were being molested by a family member. Nothing happens without a cause.