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OMG
19th November 2013, 07:11
This is not a discussion if supernatural powers exist. They do. I know this to be a fact based in my own personal experience. And what is more valid and powerful than ones personal experience?

None the less, there are times when personal experience doesn’t necessarily mean accurate or true. One of the easiest examples to elucidate this point would be when people are tricked by a street magician in believing a supernatural power only to find they were mislead.

But this paper is a quick look at REAL supernatural powers. Particularly the source and the people who wield them.

There are two types of people who wield supernatural powers.

1. Those that are given powers by external sources (i.e.: by some spiritual reality, deity, alien, elemental or demonic, etc.)

2. Those that wield powers volitionally and with comprehension.

Are both of these types valid or is one acceptable and the other not?

Or, should supernatural powers even exist?

Research shows that the vast majority of religious and spiritual miracle workers or holy people are GIVEN powers and cannot wield them through their own discretion and volition. They must get permission. Or they must follow certain parameters set by their unseen source. Yes, they have the power to submit and ask for assistance, or in being a vessel, but that’s the extent of their comprehension. Ultimately they base their philosophy on surrender or possession to a higher source. Whatever or whomever this “source” is.

Yet do they stop to ask how their “source” can comprehend and wield such powers while they can’t? And what laws prevent humans from comprehending and wielding supernatural powers while these external sources can? Also, what laws allow these sources to interfere or get involved in human affairs while most human activities are based in mundane science, etc?

Is it reasonable to wonder how sources beyond us can justify interaction through a human host when they have comprehension and we do not? Does the source act on belief or faith as we do? Or are those terms merely subjugation, ignorance and impotence which we incorrectly ascribe positive attributes to?

Consider that most accepted social activities and values are based on a collective mutual comprehension. In short, society basically agrees on things because we can all relate to the subject matter personally, comprehend and duplicate it at will. This is science. And yes, there's an equal if not greater amount of things which are beyond science in the sense that they can be experienced and validated collectively without being quantified rationally, such as various emotions, art, personality, etc.

However, can we not ask…who are these “sources”? And when we surrender ourselves to them are we doing so from strength or are we selling our very essence or soul because we want something from them that we have not earned ourselves? Or can we ever earn anything?

Is not comprehension one of the main tenants of a healthy fulfilling life? Or do we prefer to sleep walk in the fog of external sources, the comprehension of which always exist’ “out there” and never here and NOW in the I AM of who are ARE?

Johnny
19th November 2013, 15:45
There is a tiny book about the mind and supernatural power, called: Pantañjali's Yoga Sutras translated by G. Raman. I think the text can be found free on the internet.

Johnny

Sidney
19th November 2013, 16:36
I found this, is this the one you are talking about?
http://www.swamivenkatesananda.org/clientuploads/publications_online/Enlightened%20Living%20by%20Swami%20Venkatesananda .pdf

OMG
19th November 2013, 16:57
This is the book he's talking about. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_Sutras_of_Patanjali

You can find many free sources of it, along with translations/interpretations.

I have a decent size library of similar material that I've studied. There are numerous amazing tales both ancient and modern.

The thing to ask is where are people getting their "powers"and do they have comprehension or are they just a medium for some external "source"?

Johnny
19th November 2013, 19:06
I found this, is this the one you are talking about?
http://www.swamivenkatesananda.org/clientuploads/publications_online/Enlightened%20Living%20by%20Swami%20Venkatesananda .pdf

No it is not, it seems to be useless, if you don't understand sankrit, i think it is.

I found this one in the danish translation: http://rabarber.dk/01/06/2011/patanjalis-yoga-sutras/ but you don't wont that either ;)

Here is a good one, but unfortunately chapter 1 is bedevilled http://www.yoga-age.com/sutras/pata2.html

Another one here: https://openlibrary.org/books/OL14049604M/The_yoga-system_of_Pata%c3%b1jali try : read online to the left

You can also try google search : yoga sutras of patanjali pdf

It is not easy reading, but well worth it.

Greetings Johnny

GloriousPoetry
19th November 2013, 20:29
OMG,

Upon reading your thread the first thought that came into my mind is the image of humanity inside a membrane and it's when we break through that membrane that we discover another layer of our creative power......perhaps some of us have broken through while others are still inside the membrane looking outside it and yet others are not even looking.

I'm for total soveriegnty of the soul..........with this in mind I believe on a soul level we are all on various levels of understanding our creative essence....

Many Blessings

OnyxKnight
19th November 2013, 22:32
There are two types of people who wield supernatural powers.

1. Those that are given powers by external sources (i.e.: by some spiritual reality, deity, alien, elemental or demonic, etc.)

2. Those that wield powers volitionally and with comprehension.


Some are born with it, others need somebody who is expert in genetics to tweak them so they can wield them. Like aliens. My take.

OMG
20th November 2013, 05:25
There are two types of people who wield supernatural powers.

1. Those that are given powers by external sources (i.e.: by some spiritual reality, deity, alien, elemental or demonic, etc.)

2. Those that wield powers volitionally and with comprehension.


Some are born with it, others need somebody who is expert in genetics to tweak them so they can wield them. Like aliens. My take.


This is a good discussion point.

Being born with supernatural powers is basically number 1 and wouldn't necessarily mean they have developed comprehension, at least in the context I was referring to.

Yet to be fair it could be argued that we ALL start off with number 1 and are the unconscious byproduct of some source which created us, be it Nature, Aliens, God, etc.

So do any of us have comprehension when we take action? In one way yes we do, through our finite mundane senses and attributes, such as when I explained about science, the arts, etc.

Also, I should say that my intention in speaking about those with supernatural powers wasn’t necessarily directed towards genetically gifted people or even those that are given apparent supernatural powers through any form of advanced technology or transhumanistic traits. I was referring to more organic and generated traits that weren’t inherent at birth but gain through some conscious discipline or surrender.

But any supernatural ability needs to be examine in relation to comprehension and conscious volition.

Calamus
20th November 2013, 06:06
..........

Corncrake
20th November 2013, 10:04
Even then, we have to always be checking our intent. Calamus

I think this is the key. I have met, read and heard about many people with supernatural powers. Some are aware of their abilities but do little with it - in fact would rather not have them. I knew someone - a banker - who had been seeing ghosts since his childhood. In his family it was considered normal. He rarely talked about it but just accepted it. Others use their 'abilities' to do good such as helping people who are experiencing the pain of a bereavement or through healing using methods such as Reiki. Some have even used them for entertainment - most magicians use carefully practised tricks and sleight of hand but a few such as the medium Jack Webber used their skills in Houdini style performances. Those who use their abilities to further their own ends - gambling for example - can end up mentally damaged. For those of you who are familiar with the Profumo affair that brought down the British government of Harold MacMillan, Stephen Ward was a practitioner of 'black magic' and used to hold rites at his cottage on the Cliveden Estate. This side of the affair was not given much coverage in the press at the time but Dom Robert Petitpierre had to exorcise the property after Ward's death. There have been many references to the Nazi's and their interest in the occult on Avalon too.

Karezza
24th November 2013, 18:07
Perhaps they act with 'a higher source' as a way to check that their intentions are not simply an individualistic mind driven act- a sort of checksum on intent. Although not thought of as powers in the traditional sense, what if any are we to make of artistic inspiration of the many poets, artists & writers e.t.c? Is the product of what they produce their own or someone else’s work? Whether the inspiration be attained through conscience or unconscious means: as with Thomas Edison’s questioning cat naps or Nikola Telsa’s sudden rush of understanding and resolutions to tasks. How would you categorised their gifts, their own or the work of something else through them?


One afternoon, which is ever present in my recollection, I was enjoying a walk with my friend in the City Park and reciting poetry. At that age, I knew entire books by heart, word for word. One of these was Goethe’s “Faust.” The sun was just setting and reminded me of the glorious passage, "The glow retreats, done is the day of toil; It yonder hastes; new fields of life exploring; Ah, that no wing can lift me from the soil. Upon its track to follow, follow soaring"

As I uttered these inspiring words the idea came like a flash of lightening and in an instant the truth was revealed. Suddenly the animated figure of Tesla snapped into a rigid pose as if he had fallen into a trance. Szigeti spoke to him but got no answer. Again his words were ignored. The friend was about to seize the towering motionless figure and shake him into consciousness when instead Tesla spoke. "Watch me!" said Tesla, blurting out the words like a child bubbling over with emotion: "Watch me reverse it." He was still gazing into the sun as if that incandescent ball had thrown him into a hypnotic trance. "But I see nothing," said Szigeti. "The sun is not sparking. Are you ill?" "you do not understand," beamed the still excited Tesla, turning as if to bestow a benediction on his companion. "It is my alternating-current motor I am talking about. I have solved the problem.

Tesla had never told him, however, about his ability to visualize objects which he conceived in his mind, so it was necessary to explain the vision he saw, and that the solution had come to him suddenly while they were admiring the sunset. I drew with a stick on the sand, the diagram shown six years later in my address before the American Institute of Electrical Engineers, and my companion understood them perfectly. The images I saw were wonderfully sharp and clear and had the solidity of metal and stone, so much so that I told him, “See my motor here; watch me reverse it.”I cannot begin to describe my emotions. Pygmalion seeing his statue come to life could not have been more deeply moved. A thousand secrets of nature which I might have stumbled upon accidentally, I would have given for that one which I had wrested from her against all odds and at the peril of my existence...-The Strange Life of Nikola Tesla, excerpt

Selene
24th November 2013, 22:54
Calamus, Corncrake and Astrolabe, you’ve got this exactly right:

We aren’t “given” powers. There’s no arbitrary favoritism. We earn them via many, many lifetimes of conscious growth and spiritual practice, whether within - or in spite of – any formal religious/tribal/ritual structure. Doesn’t matter what system or belief structure you use, you’ve still got to grow your own consciousness. It is the work of many lifetimes; the associated goodies don’t come arbitrarily. You don’t acquire skills until you’ve developed the capacity to access them.

Think of human consciousness as akin to a plant growing from seed and developing in the soil. All things happen naturally in their own time: a delicate sprout will develop a stronger stem and more leaves, branch out, set down deeper roots, strengthen, mature… set buds when the time is right. Flowers. Fruit. The seeds of another generation. All as it is intended to be.

The difference between us and that apple tree is that we have a choice – free will – volition – about the speed of our own development. That’s all. We can avoid or put off tough issues for future dealing. But deal we eventually must. And mature we eventually will.

But when your consciousness matures enough to begin to access these higher capacities, you will inevitably discover that it’s a big, wide universe out there. And you certainly don’t have all the answers; you barely even have the right questions. And that you, as a physical human, didn’t originate these powers, you only access them so that they can flow through you. That’s why every credible practitioner always acknowledges higher sources.

Now, at the beginning of access, it is normal to puff up your ego and think: Damn right, I’ll rule the world now. FOAD, mortals. The black path beckons so nicely. And you’ll take it, what fun for a couple of centuries.

But after a few lifetimes of “consequences”, you might be prepared to reconsider your lack of empathy and human compassion as nonfunctional. And you will begin to learn about transcending your own limited ego.

Anyway, enough for now. Great OP, OMG.

Cheers,

Selene