The Walking Dead, Who is a better leader?

[jagman]

In the series "The Walking Dead" there are two leaders of two different
groups of survivors with 2 totally different leadership styles. Rick Grimes
leads a group of survivors who has taken over an abandoned prison.
He is a strong leader but sometimes he allows his emotions and feelings
to almost compromise his groups saftey. Rick was a former officer and
will kill if necessary but always tries to attain the moral high ground.

The other leader is a man who goes by the name of Brian aka Phillip
aka (The Governor). He is a man who will survive at all costs. He can
be a psychopath at times when his leadership is questioned but he will
not hesitate to kill if he feels his group is in danger.

Although this is a hypothetical question and I do not believe we are in
any real danger of a zombie apocalypse.lol I do think this is very relevant
question to ask because of all the real life scenarios of a societal breakdown.

I look forward to reading your responses.

[CivilDawn]

I'm really happy to hear this being discussed on Avalon.

It seems to be a question of motive. What I gather is that the Governer's survival is deeply related to his addiction to the energy he gets when he feels needed. Hence him standing there, almost like he was refueling while a pool of zombies stuck in the mud are trying to break free and tear him apart, or hence his many faces, hence killing anyone who might try to usurp his power and lying to the unsuspecting, naive masses.

Then there is Rick, surrounding himself with altruists and interdependents who dislike survival at the expense of others. Where Rick has a "we're-all-in-this-together, walk-beside-me-not-behind" mentality, the Governor will brutally murder anyone standing in the way of his ego driven desire for reliant individuals and hierarchal supremacy.

I feel like the Governor resembles our current model for rule over the majorly ignorant populous, while Rick represents the struggle of a well-intended average man to bring forth a form of leadership that values humanity, in a time when most of humanity has become mutated into destructive, soulless, autopilot slaves of their carnal desires. Sound familiar?

[Lifebringer]

I haven't watched it. I admit it. It's on Fox right? That's the reason. So much about that Ruport Murdock port of lies, just rubs me the wrong way. You have to be bombarded by lies, and then they slip in a truth.

Besides, I watched the original "Night of the living Dead" last week, and that was enough zombie for me. It used to scare me as a child of 9, but now, I read the plots to the story, and it's not a fear but comparison of today's problems, discoveries and technologies, that were around back then. Viral mind control? Hmmm... seems they always have to inject their boogeyviralgerms in someone.

[Snoweagle]

Project Avalon is not a celebrity or television critique forum. Any interest in this sort of drivvle should consider more dumbed down MSM resources.

Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy really put themselves out there to awaken the world to many questions of humanities beginnings and hidden secrets in respect of the forthcoming World War III and the complete collapse of global commerce. This topic of discussion is an insult to their efforts and those who support them.

Furthermore, the shallow nature of this enquiry reflects the lack of commitment and dedication to quality researching necessary to promote debates of engagement. The script writers were not mentioned or their previous works, this to applies to the producers and directors of individual episodes. In fact qualifies for childrens playground banter imo.

@jagman psst - they are actors just like Barry Sortero and other world leaders but the world leaders want to kill us - remember

I do not have a television and reading this fantasy tv garbage happily endorses that decision - roflmao

I will happily support PA strengthening topic relevance to raise the intellectual bar to avoid further repeats. (this has been just one of several disappointing threads)

[Nasu]

Project Avalon is not a celebrity or television critique forum. Any interest in this sort of drivvle should consider more dumbed down MSM resources.

Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy really put themselves out there to awaken the world to many questions of humanities beginnings and hidden secrets in respect of the forthcoming World War III and the complete collapse of global commerce. This topic of discussion is an insult to their efforts and those who support them.

Furthermore, the shallow nature of this enquiry reflects the lack of commitment and dedication to quality researching necessary to promote debates of engagement. The script writers were not mentioned or their previous works, this to applies to the producers and directors of individual episodes. In fact qualifies for childrens playground banter imo.

@jagman psst - they are actors just like Barry Sortero and other world leaders but the world leaders want to kill us - remember

I do not have a television and reading this fantasy tv garbage happily endorses that decision - roflmao

I will happily support PA strengthening topic relevance to raise the intellectual bar to avoid further repeats. (this has been just one of several disappointing threads)

So it's the Governor for you then...

Thanks for taking the time to help others climb the spiritual ladder up to your lofty, distant mountain view, I am calmed by your example and steadfast leadership style... Strange, I would have thought someone with your depth of understanding would be too busy to engage or comment here, I suppose even angels get board from time to time and like to walk with the dying...

This is one of your more disappointing replies within several threads...

Back to topic. For my part, if we have to endure a zombie apocalypse, I would rather a leader who embodies both leaders qualities, akin to the tales of Soloman, firm but fair, kind yet watchful, thoughtful yet with purposeful action, compassionate or physcopathic, depending on the circumstance, a little like you and me..... N

[Joe Akulis]

Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy really put themselves out there to awaken the world to many questions of humanities beginnings and hidden secrets in respect of the forthcoming World War III and the complete collapse of global commerce. This topic of discussion is an insult to their efforts and those who support them.

Unless of course your third world war and complete collapse really happens. Wouldn't that have the potential to thrust mankind into lots of situations like those depicted on this TV show? If you eliminate all but the barest traces of power and government, and any police/protective forces, then couldn't we revert back to a lot of "might makes right" type of small dictatorships? This theme is echoed all over in tons of movies and tv shows, not just this one. It might be nice if we had some consideration ahead of time as to the various ways people could respond when faced with something like this. Not that I'm a huge believer in the "forthcomingness" of your war and collapse, however.

Seeker

[Nasu]

Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy really put themselves out there to awaken the world to many questions of humanities beginnings and hidden secrets in respect of the forthcoming World War III and the complete collapse of global commerce. This topic of discussion is an insult to their efforts and those who support them.

Unless of course your third world war and complete collapse really happens. Wouldn't that have the potential to thrust mankind into lots of situations like those depicted on this TV show? If you eliminate all but the barest traces of power and government, and any police/protective forces, then couldn't we revert back to a lot of "might makes right" type of small dictatorships? This theme is echoed all over in tons of movies and tv shows, not just this one. It might be nice if we had some consideration ahead of time as to the various ways people could respond when faced with something like this. Not that I'm a huge believer in the "forthcomingness" of your war and collapse, however.

Seeker

Well said. This show is no different than the so called serious news, both crafted and well acted, to give a political and cultural message, IMO.. Being part monkey, as we are, we like to watch others move and talk, we love to watch faces and imagine the soul within, it's why TV is such a great tool for propaganda, we love it..

We are all very capable leaders, given the right set of circumstances, lets hope we are never challenged to rise from our TV chairs to prove it.... N

[seleka]

:eek::jaw: There are still people watching that show? I tried it. I really did. I even got slightly hooked.... but there are too many writing errors to ignore. Even in the first episode. The world has gone nuts and everyone is stuck in traffic on the freeway escaping. Lori's boy is close to another vehicle, the owner accuses him of stealing... then after a few brief words, she asks this complete stranger mother to 'watch him for me?" so she can step aside to talk to shane.... NO MOTHER WOULD DO THAT in that situation. I let a lot of poor writing like that go.... but when I saw how they decided to just go full on night of the living dead and drop all pretense of intellectual soul searching... I am done. okay so then... sorry for the rant... but I really wanted it to be good... what was the question? Oh and I agree this should be in an OT forum... are you seriously asking if the governor is a leader? he shot his whole team, let him lead you right to the end of his gun. done here

[Nasu]

:eek::jaw: There are still people watching that show? I tried it. I really did. I even got slightly hooked.... but there are too many writing errors to ignore. Even in the first episode. The world has gone nuts and everyone is stuck in traffic on the freeway escaping. Lori's boy is close to another vehicle, the owner accuses him of stealing... then after a few brief words, she asks this complete stranger mother to 'watch him for me?" so she can step aside to talk to shane.... NO MOTHER WOULD DO THAT in that situation. I let a lot of poor writing like that go.... but when I saw how they decided to just go full on night of the living dead and drop all pretense of intellectual soul searching... I am done. okay so then... sorry for the rant... but I really wanted it to be good... what was the question? Oh and I agree this should be in an OT forum... are you seriously asking if the governor is a leader? he shot his whole team, let him lead you right to the end of his gun. done here

Great points.. It is a banall conversation this, but no less relevant.. I agree, only a fool would be led by such a man as the Governor, right??? Who is more the fool, the fool or the fool that follows him? I agree that the writing is shoddy, it reminds me of lost, falling skies et al, appart from the situation, which changes with the show, the story is much the same, it is just a soap, but with zombies... As for leaders, who would be best and so on, it's moot really, our actions today will be unrelated to our despotic leadership, wherever we live, without any need for zombies...

Cometh the hour, cometh the man, or woman for that matter.. The best and worst of us will always rise to the challenge of the occasion.. I expect no less from YOU... N

[jagman]

I haven't watched it. I admit it. It's on Fox right? That's the reason. So much about that Ruport Murdock port of lies, just rubs me the wrong way. You have to be bombarded by lies, and then they slip in a truth.

Besides, I watched the original "Night of the living Dead" last week, and that was enough zombie for me. It used to scare me as a child of 9, but now, I read the plots to the story, and it's not a fear but comparison of today's problems, discoveries and technologies, that were around back then. Viral mind control? Hmmm... seems they always have to inject their boogeyviralgerms in someone.

It's not on Fox. It's an Amc original

[jagman]

Snoweagle
Project Avalon is not a celebrity or television critique forum. Any interest in this sort of drivvle should consider more dumbed down MSM resources.

A societal break down is a very real possiblity! It's far from
drivvle snoweagle. I'm so sorry I upset your fragile sensibilities.
If you dont like my thread simply move on friend. The only
drivvle I read this morning was your response to my thread.

[Nasu]

So?? Come on Jag, which is best, do you think?

Given only these two narrow choices, I would choose Rick, if only life were as simple... N

[Joe Akulis]

There were times when I would rather have the veterinarian as the leader. In a situation like that, I'd say anyone under 40 shouldn't even be considered. Then find your nine wisest and most sensible and level headed, and make them your council of governors. I remember reading somewhere some university did a scientific study that showed the best number for a group of people to lead and make decisions was nine. Any more and not enough people can settle on things as well, and any fewer and I forget that reason. :-)

I know that governor guy showed a particular trait common to most dictators when he gunned down all the army guys outside of town that one time. He identified anyone who might threaten his grasp on power and just eliminated them without any warning or hesitation. Saddam Hussein was like that too, I think.

[UpToLight]

Of course, my choice would be Rick since he have emotions (which Governor has but only serves for himself) which identify his humanity. For example, in rencet episode Governor killed the leader of group just because he was good which he considers the weakness of leader.

[jagman]

So?? Come on Jag, which is best, do you think?

Given only these two narrow choices, I would choose Rick, if only life were as simple... N

Your absolutely right Nasu its not that simple. Rick would probably
be my choice.

[jagman]

I really started to question Rick's leadership a few weeks ago when he made Carol
leave the group because she killed 2 people who were on their deathbed with a
highly infectious disease and burned the bodies to make sure the group would
survive

I guess it comes down to " Do the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few
or do the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many?"

[Nasu]

I really started to question Rick's leadership a few weeks ago when he made Carol
leave the group because she killed 2 people who were on their deathbed with a
highly infectious disease and burned the bodies to make sure the group would
survive

I guess it comes down to " Do the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few
or do the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many?"

I completely agree. It did seem a bit prim and judgemental, given all their histories, in this situation there must be a place for all types, or none IMO.. N

[jagman]

snoweagle
Furthermore, the shallow nature of this enquiry reflects the lack of commitment and dedication to quality researching necessary to promote debates of engagement. The script writers were not mentioned or their previous works, this to applies to the producers and directors of individual episodes. In fact qualifies for childrens playground banter imo.

I guess I should just let this go but I feel you made so many personal swipes at
me I feel the need to respond. You have been a member here at PA for a year
longer than myself but as for contributions to the forum you have made only
13 threads... not a tenth of what I have contributed! You cant really use the
quality over quantity argument because your first thread consisted of a paragraph
and a site link... Then you throw out Bill and Kerry names to try and validate your
postion on my thread. How pathetic... In my time at Avalon i've talked to scientists,
professors, captains of industry and many alternative media personalities and have
wrote threads on such. I have been asked on several occasions to have my work
published. Have you? I doubt it! So the next time you get the urge to try and crap
all over one of my threads, you had better think twice. Another thing when you try
to evoke Bill and Kerry name into your flimsy arguments it comes off as you being weak
and not having a mind of your own. I'm well aware of Bill's work and Kerry's work and
have great respect for them both.

[Octavusprime]

For those who don't have a TV, the Walking Dead is a show about a group of people surviving in an apocalyptic world. The apocalypse is a disease that transforms people into zombies. The show goes way beyond the typical zombie gore and into the struggles that individuals and groups go through. It gives some insight into very difficult problems that one could face if society collapsed.

In short it is a TV show but that doesn't prevent the viewer from learning or even just pondering the situations presented.

Rick is forced to lead and does so with the good of his people in mind. The Gov. is a sociopath that will do anything it takes to survive. I'll take a Rick leader any day. Although I agree that a council is better when hard decisions are to be made.

[Carmody]

Councils are nice...but:

"When it's time to shoot, shoot, don't talk." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AApIyQK-vEQ) -Eli Wallach, ~The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

[DeDukshyn]

Councils are nice...but:

"When it's time to shoot, shoot, don't talk." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AApIyQK-vEQ) -Eli Wallach, ~The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

Knowing the time to shoot then, would be the key. In light of this Rick get's my vote. The governor shoots out of anger or pleasure, as much as necessity. I'd say Rick, while trying to find that happy medium between too aggressive / too passive and sane / insane, is slightly better at "knowing when to shoot"

hehe, my 2 cents, but this probably should be in the off topic sub fourum - even though it does have a certain relevance in my opinion, but hey, even off topic threads can be very relevant. ;)