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Carmody
14th December 2013, 18:15
Just had a thought.

The prisons systems of the world, could move from imprisonment, to actual rehabilitation.

To brain-scan every entry, and then place them in designated areas, according to their wiring type. To separate the true sociopath, from the rest of the prison population.

The rest of the population will immediately settle down and then one can move toward actual and real rehabilitation of those who can be rehabilitated.

Right now, the mess is so bad, in most prisons and most countries, that the sociopaths, the true ones, are so bad, that they end up creating a permanent mess inside of those prisons.

With the brain-scanning and proper placement, the ability to reduce the prison population will be able to emerge from said mess. And that the true group who, by their wiring, cannot be rehabilitated, they can be properly contained. A sociopath can fool people, as that is part of their trick, to fit in, when they know they are different. They can't fool the brain-scan. YES, we can identify sociopathy in brain scans. Very much so.

This is is eminently doable and in many a country and case...poses no break in privacy and rights, as we are already dealing with people who are wards of the state.

Those prisoners who want to be in a safer population which is easier to work with and can be rehabilitated and every effort put into them....would VOLUNTEER for the brain scan process.

Which, incidentally, is probably a decently large percentage of the population of the given prison. Volunteers would be there, in spades, looking to get the hell out of that nightmare, for all the right reasons.

Cost? in the USA, the most expensive place in the world, for medical hardware and it's use? About $1100US, right now, per scan.

Which is an absolute pittance for the reward and change it brings.

Part of the aim of this, is to show that it will work.

The end result is to take those successes...and turn to testing for sociopathic wiring, to testing for that..in people in politics, power, finance and military, and so on.

Hell, I'd actually have it on my resume:

"Tested to be nil for sociopathic wiring, by accredited agency so and so". Another form of being bonded.

Carmody
14th December 2013, 18:27
Example:

IF one person would be found to somehow slip by the accredited testing, and having committed some given crime (sociopaths do indeed screw up....), then the entire accreditation firm that was involved in their scanning... comes under the microscope of scrutiny.

ponda
14th December 2013, 18:38
Brilliant idea.

I would expect there to be extreme resistance from those able to introduce something like this though.

Hawkwind
14th December 2013, 18:40
Good idea, but for the power elite to maintain their control over the rest of us seems to me they would be opposed to programs which tend to clear up the existing mess. I mean, they been working for centuries to create and maintain the mess, I doubt that they would willingly institute programs aimed at clearing it up.

johnf
14th December 2013, 18:45
The system as it is creates more criminals, more chaos.
I think you are right that it can be reversed.
Also there are prisons in the literal sense as well as the population at large.
It might be easier to rehabilitate people in the greater prison.

jf

Carmody
14th December 2013, 18:49
Now that it has been said (in the process of getting out as an idea), I think it is only a matter of time before someone one, some group, some country somewhere.... tries it.

Either on prisoners, or as a prerequisite for a job, or for putting on their resume due to the sensitivity of their job prospects and area of expertise.


Once that happens....

Shezbeth
14th December 2013, 19:25
I agree with the Thesis of this Thread. The prison system could make significant progress in the interest of both the imprisoned and the societies they originate from.

As it is, the Prison system is (like most things under the heel of money and power) structured to maximize the number of despondents, criminals (dispositionally), and sociopaths while extracting the greatest magnitude of resource (labor) from the incarcerated in question. In particular, the structure is designed (perhaps not directly but still) to exalt the sociopaths in the given hierarchy. Those currently exalted are generally not want to neuter themselves, moving forward.

To wit, the structure apparent is endemic to the maladjusted priorities of the society from which it is engendered.

I would be most interested to hear or see of an organization/prison that embraced the ideas/ideals you purport.

Bubu
14th December 2013, 19:38
good idea if the non sociopaths are in control bad idea because sociopaths are in control and will somehow make any good idea another nightmare for the prisoners.
Under the guise of good idea. which means that we are creating another idea for them to screw us up. As I have said first things first. Get the control back to the hands of the prisoners

Flash
14th December 2013, 19:47
I fully agree with the premises here. In prison, prisoners in Canada do have to pass a test (written) to detect psychopathy, if it is deemed necessary by the institution. To go from a written test to a scan, the step is very short. It could work.

However, this does not help for banksters for example. In the general population, such scans would be refused. In some jobs, it could even be used to make sure these psychopaths are screened IN, not out.

I was talking with someone who cleaned my windows and kitchen cabinets. I already knew him from the past where I had to teach a group of tough ones, but only one amongst them had done some prison time, this one cleaning my windows (the others ones were from extremely rich families and although they were real trouble makers, most probably psychopaths, their families always paid the way out of jail - one of them, his family was in international banking).

Well, this guy is sitting and we are discussing the contract when he starts telling me that he was diagnosed as a pyschopath in jail, with the said test. I had always seen him as a student, and I usually like my students (makes the job easier), but this time, I took a breathing space and started to observe him, I could see the ingrained lies and deceit.

But not only that, I started questioning. He told me that he could very easily kill someone and go back home and sleep on his two ears peacefully. He just would have executed a given contract, as requested. No guilt, no thinking. I joked and told him that I knew he would never kill me and his answer was: "no, I would come and tell you and ask for 1/2 the price given to me in order not to do my job, because you are a friend". I had chill on my back.

But, the most interesting, is that just before he was arrested for murder, he had applied to be in the army and he was being recruited as a potential sniper precisely because he is a psychopath and would kill without PTSD.

This also gave me the goose bumps.

I bet anything that in trading, when they pass the screening tests prior to be hired, psychopaths are positively screened and hired.

Carmody
14th December 2013, 19:55
I fully agree with the premises here. In prison, prisoners in Canada do have to pass a test (written) to detect psychopathy, if it is deemed necessary by the institution. To go from a written test to a scan, the step is very short. It could work.

However, this does not help for banksters for example. In the general population, such scans would be refused. In some jobs, it could even be used to make sure these psychopaths are screened IN, not out.



Start small. watch for infiltration of special interests, who would want the beginnings of the testing and methods, to fail. They'll even do their damnedest to infiltrate the original specifications and guidelines. To undermine the origins in ways that are not simple to see, unless attention is paid in all ways.

Countries like Canada are good for this, same as Norway, Sweden, (probably Germany and Australia as well) etc...as infiltration of the government systems by private corporations and scummy people (sociopaths and hidden interests, secret societies, etc) is not anywhere as bad as the USA -in which the infiltration is largely complete.

Once positive results begin to show up, which would not be long, then...it will begin to spread.

Sooner or later it gets to politics and critical government and military positions.

Then, it comes to the process of recruits in the military and in private organizations. like banking and financial worlds. This is why the words 'domino effect' are in the title of the thread.

But first...it needs history.

The polarity has to be found and shown to the public in a simple easy to understand way.

Prisons appear to be the best way, and place, to start.

Eram
14th December 2013, 20:03
Also, use nutritious food, food supplements & vitamins..... and group therapy (it works!)

Bubu
14th December 2013, 20:17
Also, use nutritious food, food supplements & vitamins..... and group therapy (it works!)

good idea but first you have to kill the candida and other parasites with turpentine lest they grow bigger and stronger with the supplements and mess your brains as well. As I have said first things first

Flash
14th December 2013, 20:24
Also, use nutritious food, food supplements & vitamins..... and group therapy (it works!)

Sorry my friend, but not with psychopaths. With them it is proven that group thérapies, vitamins and food supplement does not work. They will manipulate their way within the group therapy and the psychologist will see only warm fire place, no raging fire. They are not equipped in the brain for corrective measures. They do not have the same brain as us Eram.

Believe me and read about it, it does not work. However, the said proposals in your post are very useful for those have encoutered psychopaths.

Bubu you cannot kill what does not exist. Forget turpentine, you cannot kill the absence of something. They do not have the brain cell corresponding to empathy. Period. This won't develop.

Eram and Bubu, you have never been subjected to psychopaths, either in business or in prison. Very obvious. And i am happy for you truly. No need for such experience in one's life.

Eram
14th December 2013, 20:29
Also, use nutritious food, food supplements & vitamins..... and group therapy (it works!)

Sorry my friend, but not with psychopaths. With them it is proven that group thérapies, vitamins and food supplement does not work. They will manipulate their way within the group therapy and the psychologist will see only warm fire place, no raging fire. They are not equipped in the brain for corrective measures. They do not have the same brain as us Eram.

Believe me and read about it, it does not work. However, the said proposals in your post are very useful for those have encoutered psychopaths.

Bubu you cannot kill what does not exist. Forget turpentine, you cannot kill the absence of something. They do not have the brain cell corresponding to empathy. Period. This won't develop.

Eram and Bubu, you have never been subjected to psychopaths, either in business or in prison. Very obvious. And i am happy for you truly. No need for such experience in one's life.

Yes, I'm aware of that.
It was meant as a means for other inmates to get rehabilitated :)

I wonder though, Have there ever been reports about psychopaths that did take a turn for the better ?
Is it even possible?

Bubu
15th December 2013, 00:05
Say you have a herd of ducks. We can assume that among the herd are different personalities, respond to different calls have different weaknesses and strength. If you new all this you can pretty much maximize your use of the herd.

Classifying the sheeple is taking herding to the next level.

And that would be under the guise of containing the sociopaths for good. The sheeple will most probably bite it all bait hook and sink in no time faster than how we take on the global warming.

Flash
15th December 2013, 00:13
Say you have a herd of ducks. We can assume that among the herd are different personalities, respond to different calls have different weaknesses and strength. If you new all this you can pretty much maximize your use of the herd.

Classifying the sheeple is taking herding to the next level.

At the present time, it is the psychopaths who classify the sheeple. What we are talking about here is for the sheeple to finally classify the psychopath.

i personnally do not think it is possible to have the psychopaths turn around, not unless to take them before their mom's pregnancies. And it is at least 4% of the population. To add to this, there is psychopaths even in the animal reign . They often deal with them by chasing them away from their group (the éléphants for example). Monkeys are like us on average, they get hurt and the troup does not do well.

We are aware here that talking about psychopaths is talking about the animal parts of our societies and of ourselves. Not very evolved. And psychopaths do stop the progress of societies with their activities and incessant hurting of others.

sandy
15th December 2013, 00:16
IMHO after some history of working in male and female federal Canadian prisons one might want to implement the test for the staff members first and foremest before testing the prisoners..................:)

Flash
15th December 2013, 00:19
IMHO after some history of working in male and female federal Canadian prisons one might want to implement the test for the staff members first and foremest before testing the prisoners..................:)

lol, I was thinking of that too when I wrote my first post. Any place where you are allowed to beat up others, a greater concentration of psycopaths should normally be found, be it prisons or trading floors.

Bubu
15th December 2013, 00:27
Say you have a herd of ducks. We can assume that among the herd are different personalities, respond to different calls have different weaknesses and strength. If you new all this you can pretty much maximize your use of the herd.

Classifying the sheeple is taking herding to the next level.

At the present time, it is the psychopaths who classify the sheeple. What we are talking about here is for the sheeple to finally classify the psychopath.



So we are talking of classifying the sociopaths when it is not yet possible to do it.

well I understand that most of us here wants to play; like predicting what will happen when free energy finally arrives. Ok I remember. And am not saying there is something wrong with that. Have fun, that's life is all about.

Flash
15th December 2013, 00:29
Say you have a herd of ducks. We can assume that among the herd are different personalities, respond to different calls have different weaknesses and strength. If you new all this you can pretty much maximize your use of the herd.

Classifying the sheeple is taking herding to the next level.

At the present time, it is the psychopaths who classify the sheeple. What we are talking about here is for the sheeple to finally classify the psychopath.



So we are talking of classifying the sociopaths when it is not yet possible to do it.

well I understand that most of us here wants to play; like predicting what will happen when free energy finally arrives. Ok I remember. And am not saying there is something wrong with that. Have fun, that's life is all about.

Bubu, it is now possible to detect psychopaths through written tests and through brain scans and through genes sequencing. It is no more in psy ops, it is a public knowledge and happening.

Here just one of them: The Hare psychopaty checklist


The Hare Psychopathy Checklist-Revised (PCL-R) is the psychological assessment most commonly used to rate psychopathy.[1] It is a 20-item inventory of perceived personality traits and recorded behaviors, intended to be completed on the basis of a semi-structured interview along with a review of 'collateral information' such as official recordshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hare_Psychopathy_Checklist


[QUOTE]"The amygdala is the seat of emotion. Psychopaths lack emotion. They lack empathy, remorse, guilt," said research team member Adrian Raine, chair of the Department of Criminology at the University of Pennsylvania, at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science in Washington, D.C., last month.


University of Pennsylvania criminologist Adrian Raine




University of Pennsylvania criminologist Adrian Raine
Credit: U Penn
View full size image

In addition to brain differences, people who end up being convicted for crimes often show behavioral differences compared with the rest of the population. One long-term study that Raine participated in followed 1,795 children born in two towns from ages 3 to 23. The study measured many aspects of these individuals' growth and development, and found that 137 became criminal offenders.
http://www.livescience.com/13083-criminals-brain-neuroscience-ethics.html[/QUOTE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2bPMDTXQTY

simply having the psychopaths genes does not necessarily mean you will be violent, it dépends on what in your childhood can trigger it. However, as Fallon, the researcher on psychopathy who discovered he is himself a psychopath said, whatever he does wrong, he does not care. He does not care if he has the gene or not. No empathy.

Bubu
15th December 2013, 00:33
Bubu, it is now possible to detect psychopaths through written tests and through brain scans. It is no more in psy ops, it is a public knowledge and happening.

I agree. But that doesn't make the sociopaths not in control. For as long as they are in control they will turn every single undertaking to their advantage. read my post please.

Carmody
15th December 2013, 00:38
Bubu, it is now possible to detect psychopaths through written tests and through brain scans. It is no more in psy ops, it is a public knowledge and happening.

I agree. But that doesn't make the sociopaths not in control. For as long as they are in control they will turn every single undertaking to their advantage. read my post please.

That is rather fatalistic of you. Perhaps you would prefer to give in, in all ways.

Remember, it is is consensus reality, where we form it and it's potential, through not just our actions, but our thoughts. Our consciousness, as projection... IS the reality.

We have a hard time changing things as it is not just us, but all others as well.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


IMHO after some history of working in male and female federal Canadian prisons one might want to implement the test for the staff members first and foremest before testing the prisoners..................:)

Give it time. If it is started, that point would eventually come to pass.

Flash
15th December 2013, 00:49
Bubu, it is now possible to detect psychopaths through written tests and through brain scans. It is no more in psy ops, it is a public knowledge and happening.

I agree. But that doesn't make the sociopaths not in control. For as long as they are in control they will turn every single undertaking to their advantage. read my post please.

Yes, I misread you. Fallon, the researcher who has not only the brain scan but the genes of psychopathy should not be put in controlling situation, he should never be given a job that leads to managing others or managing money and anything that can lead to power, stealing, hurting, because precisely he does not care. imo

Agape
15th December 2013, 01:13
It's my thoughts exactly that so called 'criminals' need to be healed not punished .

No pain has succeeded to make anyone better being . The imprisonment -punishment system is equally bad for society who maintain such systems and ideas,
it's morally and say, scientifically , very outdated system of getting rid of the trouble .

Many of those who commit crimes, from little thieves to mass murderers are people who suffered harsh treatment and abuse since childhood . Many grew up as homeless kids on streets who never experienced family, love and care .

I know it isn't the rule but prisons seem to be full of such individuals just because human society does not offer them many options. Sure, there are strong minded individuals who are able to get out of such 'wicked circle' but not everyone is .

From my point of view .. they are ill people needing better treatment .

I don't think that expensive brain scans are always needed, similarly as in medicine , good doctor should be able to discern and suggest a way to help each individual in way appropriate to him/her.

It's never going to function perfectly and without errors and I know what would be the answer of most governments ( with exception of Norway perhaps who are trying to implement an idea of 'humane prisons' ) ,
and ordinary people, so called tax-payers .. why should we pay for proper treatment of criminals , we don't have money for orderly citizens , we don't have money for health care, education and all they have no money for .

But I'm telling you ..if they don't have money for medical care and education ..they are growing unhealthy, ignorant society.

If they do not treat those who are ill and merely solve the problem by terminating their lives , physically or mentally, they're responsible for the state of illness we all have to endure, on each others behalf.



:angel:

Bubu
15th December 2013, 01:15
"Remember, it is is consensus reality, where we form it and it's potential, through not just our actions, but our thoughts. Our consciousness, as projection... IS the reality."

Perhaps our consensus should be directed first as to who should have the controls. For if we implement it right now, is it obvious that the controllers will be the ones who will benefit.

And now that the idea is out I would not be surprise if conditioning follows then the conditioned sheeple will drum up and actually push and help for it's implementation. It's a pattern that happens many time in history just look around.

Carmody
15th December 2013, 01:28
It is expected, according to a doctor recently interviewed on Coast to Coast Am, that 1/3rd of up and coming children, will be at the genius plus level. IQ in the 150+ range.

However, many will be autistic, and thus, many will be sociopaths. I've met more than a few of them already....

The next war or the war we are already in, but have yet to recognize, in the public sense, is one of genetics..and technology.

We have to be starting the process of dealing with that now, for, as stated, we are in that battle already, even if we don't realize it.

It's about being aware and proactive, instead of asleep and reactionary.

Flash
15th December 2013, 01:39
It is expected, according to a doctor recently interviewed on Coast to Coast Am, that 1/3rd of up and coming children, will be at the genius plus level. IQ in the 150+ range.

However, many will be autistic, and thus, many will be sociopaths. I've met more than a few of them already....

The next war or the war we are already in, but have yet to recognize, in the public sense, is one of genetics..and technology.

We have to be starting the process of dealing with that now, for, as stated, we are in that battle already, even if we don't realize it.

It's about being aware and proactive, instead of asleep and reactionary.

Do you know the name of the doctor Carmody, or the time of the program, I would very much like to listen to it. Very much indeed.

T Smith
15th December 2013, 02:11
I like the idea, in theory.

But being that we are inhabiting one giant prison planet, in practice this concept looks more like shades of Gattica to me.

Carmody
15th December 2013, 02:15
I like the idea, in theory.

But being that we are inhabiting one giant prison planet, in practice this concept looks more like shades of Gattica to me.

It does to me too.

However, we are running out of options. Time to use what is at hand and effective. something that is real, and measurable, and easy to reproduce in a graph, on paper, so that even a dog can recognize the shapes and nod correctly.

A gauntlet for us is also a gauntlet for them, in this case. It would become a cascade in exposure. A domino effect. Unstoppable as a freight train.

Carmody
15th December 2013, 02:56
some interesting and revealing stuff at this link.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_does_a_sociopath_feel_about_being_diagnosed#slide1

¤=[Post Update]=¤



It is expected, according to a doctor recently interviewed on Coast to Coast Am, that 1/3rd of up and coming children, will be at the genius plus level. IQ in the 150+ range.

However, many will be autistic, and thus, many will be sociopaths. I've met more than a few of them already....

The next war or the war we are already in, but have yet to recognize, in the public sense, is one of genetics..and technology.

We have to be starting the process of dealing with that now, for, as stated, we are in that battle already, even if we don't realize it.

It's about being aware and proactive, instead of asleep and reactionary.

Do you know the name of the doctor Carmody, or the time of the program, I would very much like to listen to it. Very much indeed.

I read it second hand, on another forum, so I've no idea.

All I know, is that we are ready to be totally overrun by intelligent sociopaths (If you thought it was bad now!!!), and we need to get a handle on this NOW.

mosquito
15th December 2013, 03:04
An idea I agree with in principle, but to me it falls down on 2 points, currently...

1 - I'm not convinced that a sociopath or psychopath can be determined from either a written test or a brain scan. Given medical science's poor understanding of consciousness and the psyche, I wouldn't like to rely on their ever-changing opinions and their interpretation of a scan. It may well be that written tests are in use, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are accurate.
2 - Who decides the criteria for determining who's a psycopath ? The same people who believe that 90% of our DNA is junk; the same people who write the DSM manual and create new categories of mental illness to suit the drug companies.

But yes, I believe that we should be doing our best to heal offenders, where possible. But surely the first step should be healing our society as a whole, creating a new paradigm society where criminal behaviour is less likely to occur. "Rehabilitating" someone to be a mindless robot in a corrupt system isn't the answer.

Carmody
15th December 2013, 03:09
Grains of sand, mariposafe. It's about getting it done.

Pie in the sky methods aren't going to get it done.

There are places where rubber and road meet, and things can be done.

This is one of them.

All the things that can be done will finally get to the place you speak of. It's a meandering path and the one that moves things forward, under the duress that is happening in the moment, is the one to move to.

Otherwise we are left with seven billion people arguing personal semantics on what is right and what is not.

I think it is far from perfect.

However, it serves function, at this point in time.

Flash
15th December 2013, 03:28
An idea I agree with in principle, but to me it falls down on 2 points, currently...

1 - I'm not convinced that a sociopath or psychopath can be determined from either a written test or a brain scan. Given medical science's poor understanding of consciousness and the psyche, I wouldn't like to rely on their ever-changing opinions and their interpretation of a scan. It may well be that written tests are in use, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are accurate.
2 - Who decides the criteria for determining who's a psycopath ? The same people who believe that 90% of our DNA is junk; the same people who write the DSM manual and create new categories of mental illness to suit the drug companies.

But yes, I believe that we should be doing our best to heal offenders, where possible. But surely the first step should be healing our society as a whole, creating a new paradigm society where criminal behaviour is less likely to occur. "Rehabilitating" someone to be a mindless robot in a corrupt system isn't the answer.

come on Mariposafe, they studied the serial killers, it was proven they had done something different. Then took their gene sequence and compared. This is about ABC of science actually. Same thing for written tests.

Before Healing offenders, we have to be able to detect them and know what they have in order to heal when possible.

And here, Carmody is talking about the corrupt system, mostly corrupted by psychopaths to start with.

Your paradigm seems to be which comes first, the hen and the egg, and until we know, do nothing to stop them, cure after they did their things. But they actually are almost never caught if they do not kill diretly and most don't. Going in a circle. Don't the criminals running this world like your approach and doubts, in the meantime they do what they want.

NO GUILT, NO EMPATHY, NO CONSCIENCE TOWARDS OTHERS. I think you have to have seen it to understand the impact and yet, most won't believe what they have right in front of their face.

Carmody, I think this is a lost cause and therefore a lost planet, a lost humanity. Even here we have to convince people when the evidence is literally all around us. And I know, it took me up to my forties and true misery caused by a psychopath to finally admit that some people have no guilt, no empathy, no conscience. Once you admit it, your whole paradigm about society changes. Then action is possible. But the sheeple who are generally relatively good cannot admit this. They will die not knowing what happened, just to hold to a belief.

mosquito
15th December 2013, 03:47
I think you misunderstand me !

I'm not questioning Carmody's thesis, I'm very well aware of the existence of people with no conscience and no empathy, I'm merely questioning whether the tests are reliable.

Prisoner X - convicted of stealing a packet of biscuits. Prisoner Y - convicted of mass murder. Which one is more likely to be the psycopath ?

Carmody -
All the things that can be done will finally get to the place you speak of. It's a meandering path and the one that moves things forward, under the duress that is happening in the moment, is the one to move to.

Agreed.

Flash
15th December 2013, 03:52
Ok, good.

To answer, it is a bunch of prisoner Y that were studied, compared with a bunch of no prisoners at all, regular folks.

I have been following these development over the years, believe me, the written test is quite good, when correlated with the scan and correlated with the genes, all the three of them, it becomes about not contestable, very strong correlations.

At the present those tests are good to detect, but not to cure. More advancement is needed for cures or for prevention from early childhood.

Vitalux
15th December 2013, 04:20
Just had a thought.



To brain-scan every entry, and then place them in designated areas, according to their wiring type. To separate the true sociopath, from the rest of the prison population.



Why stop at just the jail inmates. Lets do the correctional workers too, the administration staff too ;)

Then, lets make this a part of mandatory testing (just like drug testing for employees of industry, commerce and the civil service.) for everyone else in society so they can be meat charted from their brain patterns.

My point is not meant to sound sarcastic but merely to point out that it is opening a whole can or worms. :noidea:


After all, what can be better than a criminal record check :confused: ...but to identify a sociopath not based on his direct behavior, but rather a pretty picture of an abstraction we call a brain. :eyebrows:

:confused:

Carmody
15th December 2013, 04:57
It is can of worms, yes.

Do you have a better idea?

One that is effective, one that is real, one that is effective and one that people can see, and put their hands on?

This is about the general public, the median of intelligence, the median of life and humans, how they think and feel... not about esoteric lore or obscure forums and people on them arguing among themselves.

Pretty pictures on the 6 o'clock news, that runs through the sociopath mindset and way of being, like an unstoppable juggernaut.

That is what this is about. No matter how this gets done, in what way it gets done, it will be ugly. It will never be clean.

Everyone is afraid to make a cut, to make a choice.

This is a choice that creates it's own wind, like a wildfire started with a match, that no matter how it burns, what it fields it enters, it hits the target, regardless and relentlessly. Eventually, it seeks all of the combustibles, no matter how and where it hides.

If you want it to end, stop talking about it and start making choices and motions. There is no way around that point.

Oh yes. two people who have dealt with prisons, in Canada, no less (your location), both recommended that the staff at the prisons also be checked out, possibly even first, before the prisoners.

My experience/knowledge in those matters is much the same.

Vitalux
15th December 2013, 05:44
It is can of worms, yes.

Do you have a better idea?

One that is effective, one that is real, one that is effective and one that people can see, and put their hands on?


If you are looking for honest debate and to view a given problem from various perspectives I would be happy to share some dialogue with you.

First are you familiar with the UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS (http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml#atop) ?


if you have never read this document about human rights you first might wish to take some time to really read it and understand it.
They are everyone's human rights.

The problem is classifying criminals by brain scans is I believe against many articles of human rights.

So that is your first hurdle.

I tend to favor that every single human being can have the quality of being a sociopath at various points in their life depending on the nature of the situation.
Do we brain scan all soldiers that kill the enemy in war because they have been taught a depraved indifference to life so they can kill the enemy.

I tend to avoid the "Us vs Them" attitude.
We are all one.

Another way we can view the is, which of the insane inmates of an insane asylum shall we put in charge.
From my perspective, you, I, and everyone else on the planet is already insane.
Our delusions of grander and narcissism convince us otherwise. :neo:

The first stage I tend to favor to try and render a fix to a given problem is Love.

the next step, is recognize human rights and everyone is equal.

The suggestion of segregation by brain scan and classification of those who have been deemed to be of a criminal element, is not just inhumane, but takes us back quite a few steps.
The process would not only be flawed but would have ample opportunity to be manipulated by those in a position of authority to effectively destroy the life of the innocent.

Diagnoses of anything is subjective. :bored:


Are you following me :noidea:

Carmody
15th December 2013, 05:49
-I am absolutely following you.

-I don't think that formula will work.

-but it might, if certain aspects of the equation had a fire lit under their ass. Something that was a real inescapable, unstoppable juggernaut.

Vitalux
15th December 2013, 06:01
-I am absolutely following you.

-I don't think that formula will work.

-but it might, if certain aspects of the equation had a fire lit under their ass. Something that was a real inescapable, unstoppable juggernaut.

Lets apply the same situation than to yourself.

Say you are driving down the road in your car and a child darts out between two cars and you run over and kill the child (http://postmediawindsorstar.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/1gurdas.jpg).

Next, assume those witnesses (the child's family) at the scene report that you were driving way to fast and that you intentionally ran over the child. :tsk:

Next assume when they locked your sorry ass in a jail cell, they pulled out a x-ray machine, perhaps injected some radioactive dye into your skull and pronounced that you are a sociopath and included that information at your trail to help convict you.



Do you think you might have a problem now with your thesis statement? :noidea:

Flash
15th December 2013, 06:06
-I am absolutely following you.

-I don't think that formula will work.

-but it might, if certain aspects of the equation had a fire lit under their ass. Something that was a real inescapable, unstoppable juggernaut.

Lets apply the same situation than to yourself.

Say you are driving down the road in your car and a child darts out between two cars and you run over and kill the child (http://postmediawindsorstar.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/1gurdas.jpg).

Next, assume those witnesses (the child's family) at the scene report that you were driving way to fast and that you intentionally ran over the child. :tsk:

Next assume when they locked your sorry ass in a jail cell, they pulled out a x-ray machine, perhaps injected some radioactive dye into your skull and pronounced that you are a sociopath and included that information at your trail to help convict you.



Do you think you might have a problem now with your thesis statement? :noidea:

As a sociopath, I would definitely have a problem when you are discovering me as what I am. As a regular folk, you scan me and I am not a psychopath, i will be relieved as long as you release me lol

Vitalux
15th December 2013, 06:16
As a sociopath, I would definitely have a problem when you are discovering me as what I am. As a regular folk, you scan me and I am not a psychopath, i will be relieved as long as you release me lol

In a perfect world your statement would stand true. However, we are not in a perfect world and not all people who are held in jails are guilty of the crimes they have been convicted of based on medical or scientific evidence.

I could produce volumes of examples :ranger:. but perhaps this one will suffice.


Prison for a State Chemist Who Faked Drug Evidence (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/23/us/prison-for-state-chemist-who-faked-drug-evidence.html?_r=0): November 22, 2013

BOSTON — They were called “Dookhan defendants,” and there were thousands of them.

They had been arrested or sentenced on drug charges based on evidence or testimony supplied by Annie Dookhan, an ambitious state chemist who processed drug samples confiscated from suspects at triple the speed of her colleagues. Officials say her ambition led her to perpetrate one of the most far-reaching frauds in Massachusetts’s history.

Prosecutors say Ms. Dookhan declared drug samples positive that she had not bothered to test, tampered with evidence, forged signatures and lied about her credentials to enhance her standing in court as an expert witness. In all, her actions may have tainted more than 40,000 drug samples involving thousands of defendants.


Hence by the same deductive reasoning they could qualify you as being a sociopath by the process of producing tainted evidence....

It happens a lot. ....at least forty thousand times ....in one city in United States ;)

Flash
15th December 2013, 06:23
As a sociopath, I would definitely have a problem when you are discovering me as what I am. As a regular folk, you scan me and I am not a psychopath, i will be relieved as long as you release me lol

In a perfect world your statement would stand true. However, we are not in a perfect world and not all people who are held in jails are guilty of the crimes they have been convicted of based on medical or scientific evidence.

I could produce volumes of examples. but perhaps this one will suffice.


Prison for a State Chemist Who Faked Drug Evidence (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/23/us/prison-for-state-chemist-who-faked-drug-evidence.html?_r=0): November 22, 2013

BOSTON — They were called “Dookhan defendants,” and there were thousands of them.

They had been arrested or sentenced on drug charges based on evidence or testimony supplied by Annie Dookhan, an ambitious state chemist who processed drug samples confiscated from suspects at triple the speed of her colleagues. Officials say her ambition led her to perpetrate one of the most far-reaching frauds in Massachusetts’s history.

Prosecutors say Ms. Dookhan declared drug samples positive that she had not bothered to test, tampered with evidence, forged signatures and lied about her credentials to enhance her standing in court as an expert witness. In all, her actions may have tainted more than 40,000 drug samples involving thousands of defendants.

I agree 100% vitalux truly. I do think that people who have done petty things should never end up in jail, they should be given help. I do think that even murderer should be discriminated between the psychopaths and the non psychopaths and priority for help given to those with most chances to come out of it.

But here, in the long run, we are not talking only about jail, we are talking of the psychopaths elsewhere running us, in this society as well.

There is very few people that are tremendously harmful to the planet and to others. Most people are good. We have to be able to put aside and stop giving the power positions to those that are harmful in every ways. A start could be prison. Put the psychopaths togehter in prison aisles so that the ones that could handle thérapies and get better have a chance.

And of course, the staff would have to go though too, the psychopatic staff with the psychopatic prisoners.

Vitalux
15th December 2013, 06:48
There is very few people that are tremendously harmful to the planet and to others. Most people are good. We have to be able to put aside and stop giving the power positions to those that are harmful in every ways.

This statement is completely subjective and could apply to anyone depending on whose perspective it is viewed from. :noidea:

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ7iF1dY5SDgP69Ij4j42TV5hWRsDeuOOq1kxz4HjIRq8zzn1EVmQ
Do you suppose for example, that a mother in Africa watching her daughter starve to death would not view you as sociopath if she was to be shown images of you sitting on your computer stuffing potato chips into your mouth, drinking a can of coke and making out a list of complaints about how you don't get enough channels on your cable tv? ;)

My perspective is "we are the enemy'

There is no us and them.
They are a part of us.
We are a part of them.

Once we understand that fundamental base than everything might do well based on that.

First article of UDHR (http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml)


Article 1.

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Frederick Jackson
15th December 2013, 07:02
I had a QEEG (Quantitative Electro Encephalogram) twenty years ago. The QEEG that I had took a number measures of the brain's electrical activity across the brain surface at the several primary frequencies based on cross spectral analysis. I remember the technician saying that he could tell right off the bat whether a person taking the test was a psychopath. He did not even have to wait for the full analysis. And this was 20 years ago!

PS He did not find me to be a psychopath. :madgrin:

Vitalux
15th December 2013, 07:24
I remember the technician saying that he could tell right off the bat whether a person taking the test was a psychopath. He did not even have to wait for the full analysis. And this was 20 years ago!



Not all brains are the same.

http://www.mymultiplesclerosis.co.uk/misc/people/normal-brain.jpghttp://www.mymultiplesclerosis.co.uk/misc/people/sharon-brain.jpg




Sharon Parker :The Woman with the Mysterious Brain (http://www.mymultiplesclerosis.co.uk/misc/mysterious-brain.html)

Sharon Parker was born and bred in Barnsley, Yorkshire. She's married with three children and is a qualified staff nurse. But, Sharon has almost no observable brain. Since she was a child, doctors have told her that she has no more than 10-15% of a normal brain.


Science is riddled with flaws.

Not everyone who is innocent passes a lie detector test.
Not everyone who is guilty fails a lie detector test.

The same deduction of reasoning applies to all branches of science.

There is far more we do not understand than that which is understood, including the nature of ourselves. :noidea:

Flash
15th December 2013, 07:37
There is very few people that are tremendously harmful to the planet and to others. Most people are good. We have to be able to put aside and stop giving the power positions to those that are harmful in every ways.

This statement is completely subjective and could apply to anyone depending on whose perspective it is viewed from. :noidea:

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ7iF1dY5SDgP69Ij4j42TV5hWRsDeuOOq1kxz4HjIRq8zzn1EVmQ
Do you suppose for example, that a mother in Africa watching her daughter starve to death would not view you as sociopath if she was to be shown images of you sitting on your computer stuffing potato chips into your mouth, drinking a can of coke and making out a list of complaints about how you don't get enough channels on your cable tv? ;)

My perspective is "we are the enemy'

There is no us and them.
They are a part of us.
We are a part of them.

Once we understand that fundamental base than everything might do well based on that.

First article of UDHR (http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml)


Article 1.

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.


Viralux, if my arm has gangrene, I will cut it off.

Well, my arm has gangrene. We are all one, and my arm has gangrene.

And please, don't give me the mother in Africa theme - although you are basically right, our societies should be helping altogether or at a minimum, not exploiting them. This is my psychopathic gangrene arms that is in action over there.

AND AND AND my comments are not subjective. They are base on objective - sometimes it is - science. Moslty if you look at Forlan's video in the previous page, why would a psychopath admit he is, if there is no objectivity.

The part that is wrong in the human rights statements you put on your post is this "They are endowed with reason and conscience", this is wrong, subjective. This is a wish, a belief, not reality. The spirit of brotherhood can only prevail when the psychopaths ARE NOT in control, for Africa and for here.

In fact we are confronting a global problem that has to be seen for what it is. We solve this for us, we solve it for the earth.



Not everyone who is innocent passes a lie detector test.
Not everyone who is guilty fails a lie detector test

The ratio is 93% correct. 93% of lie detectors test are correct, 7% are missed diagnosis. If you pair it with non verbal language analysis, you increase the correct findings to 97%. Did you know this? But not all criminals are psychopaths. In fact, the 7% who are not detected with lie detector are often the psychopaths because lie detection is based on emotional reactions and psychopaths do not have these.

And here, we have not even taken into account the scan and genetic analysis.

Vitalux
15th December 2013, 08:18
The spirit of brotherhood can only prevail when the psychopaths ARE NOT in control


Ok lets try another approach.

Lets get everyone :fans: to make a List of the suspected psychopaths who are in control.

I will start the list with whom I might think is the psychopaths :rolleyes: in control

Police
Politicians
Bankers
Lawyers
Judges
Billionaires
Millionaires
Kings / Queens
Queers
Jews
Weathy
Folks from the slums
Drug addicts
Dead beat landlords
Dead Beat dads
The homeless
The Media
Hollywood
The government
Insurance companies
Children Aid Society
Industries that produce meat
Industries that produce fur
Industries that produce fish

Folks that speed
Folks that drive to slow
Folks that don't pick up their dog's poop from the parks
Doctors

Pharmaceutical Industry
The Military
The petroleum industries
The Hydro companies.

The Presidents?
Zions
Masons
Baptists
Christians
People with Brown Skin
Muslims
Pedophiles
Perverts
polygamists
atheists
creationists
the mentally ill
those that are physically disabled
fat people
short people
people that look funny
stupid people
folks who don't think like me
people who disagree with me
cowards
etc
etc


:wacko:



Are you smelling the coffee yet?

*smiles*

https://31.media.tumblr.com/c0c53c89087d2e210a98a665152e0c4b/tumblr_msx1eglrWm1sabwg8o1_500.gif

Vitalux
15th December 2013, 08:30
Not everyone who is innocent passes a lie detector test.
Not everyone who is guilty fails a lie detector test

The ratio is 93% correct. 93% of lie detectors test are correct, 7% are missed diagnosis. If you pair it with non verbal language analysis, you increase the correct findings to 97%. Did you know this? But not all criminals are psychopaths. In fact, the 7% who are not detected with lie detector are often the psychopaths because lie detection is based on emotional reactions and psychopaths do not have these.

And here, we have not even taken into account the scan and genetic analysis.

Could you please provide me with the source of your statistic.



From Wikipedia:

Validity of Polygraphy

Polygraphy has little evidence to support its use.Despite claims of 90% validity by polygraph advocates, the National Research Council has found no evidence of effectiveness. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygraph)

Bubu
15th December 2013, 10:27
It is expected, according to a doctor recently interviewed on Coast to Coast Am, that 1/3rd of up and coming children, will be at the genius plus level. IQ in the 150+ range.

However, many will be autistic, and thus, many will be sociopaths. I've met more than a few of them already....

The next war or the war we are already in, but have yet to recognize, in the public sense, is one of genetics..and technology.

We have to be starting the process of dealing with that now, for, as stated, we are in that battle already, even if we don't realize it.

It's about being aware and proactive, instead of asleep and reactionary.

That's the real problem why deception flourish we hear this we hear that and we believe it. My awareness is based on my observation and not based on what somebody says. Be aware that we live in a deception matrix and you will be fine.

Carmody
15th December 2013, 14:49
The spirit of brotherhood can only prevail when the psychopaths ARE NOT in control


Ok lets try another approach.

Lets get everyone :fans: to make a List of the suspected psychopaths who are in control.

I will start the list with whom I might think is the psychopaths :rolleyes: in control

........




All your posting in this thread so far is all about your projection, your projection that is outside of reason.

And I'm not going to be defensive about bringing the threat level to a specific group, to the same threat level that the rest of humanity is at. The threat level... hence being understood by that group -who deigns not to be (by wiring and desire) in recognition of that given threat level that the bulk of humanity is at.

That group (sociopaths and by extension, psychopaths), who do not understand threat levels and do not negotiate, can be brought to the point of understanding required to create a move to a level/even ground of negotiation. The threat level to them must be real. Must. They must recognize this. It cannot be promise and talk, it must be as it is for the bulk of humanity- a real and true threat that is in act and motion, in happening.

Again, you mistake your knowing and understanding as everyone Else's life, actions and desires.

Stop projecting in extremis.

As for what is going on in this thread. I'm not really starting anything. This was already in the act of forming and coming into being. I'm pointing at it, and speeding it up, just a bit. Helping to define it's existence.

DNA
15th December 2013, 15:57
Let me just say this, there is a difference between sociopaths and psychopaths. I personally wish folks would stop demonizing sociopaths. I have met a few pretty cool sociopaths and as far as I am concerned sociopaths can do a lot of good in the world.

Sociopaths are far less susceptible to the mental programming and societal imprinting that makes the society we live in a prison. One of my best friends is a sociopath. He is a fairly wise guy. He is free from the shackles I had to spend years wresting myself from in terms of false paradigms and what not.

In so far as looking for leaders to guide society in new positive directions and having the guts to call folks out sociopaths are many times your best bet.

araucaria
15th December 2013, 17:09
I wonder though, Have there ever been reports about psychopaths that did take a turn for the better ?
Is it even possible?
I don't know. The only example that comes to mind is Justoneman on this forum, who claims to be a (former) psychopath. Check him out.

Flash
15th December 2013, 17:30
I wonder though, Have there ever been reports about psychopaths that did take a turn for the better ?
Is it even possible?
I don't know. The only example that comes to mind is Justoneman on this forum, who claims to be a (former) psychopath. Check him out.

he claims that, I claim not. The drugs stopped his brain from working properly. I see much more a guy who has sociopathic traits because he does have empathy and some guilt, when not drugged by drugs and power, together. Pretty sure we would not find much on a scan. But hey, would be fun if he would try it.

Flash
15th December 2013, 17:34
Let me just say this, there is a difference between sociopaths and psychopaths. I personally wish folks would stop demonizing sociopaths. I have met a few pretty cool sociopaths and as far as I am concerned sociopaths can do a lot of good in the world.

Sociopaths are far less susceptible to the mental programming and societal imprinting that makes the society we live in a prison. One of my best friends is a sociopath. He is a fairly wise guy. He is free from the shackles I had to spend years wresting myself from in terms of false paradigms and what not.

In so far as looking for leaders to guide society in new positive directions and having the guts to call folks out sociopaths are many times your best bet.

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Psychopath_vs_Sociopath

I tried to embed a chart on the différences and I cannot.

From the description, Forland would have been a sociopath. But hey, it is a question of degree, one is more open because the disease is more advance/obvous, the other know how to hide.

Fine, I do not know if it makes much difference for leading in society though. Why would you want to be led by someone, a sociopath, or a psychopath, both. When all researches prove are damaging to society they usually are?

Because you have fun with one and his has broken no law that you know of???
Because they are fealess and have no guilt?
Oh, because they take décisions fast and without thinking for long????
The sociopath will be very happy to read this.

It really beats me your comment. I would very much rather be lead by people with lots of empathy and wisdom for the whole of society.

However, I must say that your apport to this discussion here, as well as Vitalux's are a definite and strong indicator of the difficulties we will have to get rid of being led by sociopaths or psychopaths. When the sheeple, us, think we are fine with them and we should be soft on them, they have the situation to their advantage and will use it, sociopaths or psychopaths.

So your apports are priceless, because representing society. It tells us that in now way will we change our governments and banksters as a whole, because you are on this forum and knows, imagine regular folks on the street, they see only stars, not greed and exploitation.

I am weeping on humanity destiny.

Tendency to participate in schemes and take calculated risks to minimize evidence or exposure.
Tendency for premeditated crimes with controllable risks, criminal opportunism, fraud, calculated or opportunistic violence.
Tendency to appear superficially normal in social relationships, often social predators
Antisocial personality disorder (ASPD).
A predisposition to violence and impulsivity that varies
Controlled behavior

------------------

or why would I want these added traits of psychopath:

High predisposition to violence
High impulsivity
Behavior erratic
Criminal behavior: tendency to leave clues and behave impulsively
Tendency for impulsive or opportunistic criminal behavior, excessive risk taking, impulsive or opportunistic violence
Unable to maintain normal relationships. Values relationships that benefit themselves
Antisocial personality disorder (ASPD); lack of empathy or conscience, delusional

araucaria
15th December 2013, 17:45
The way I see it, the notion of humanity is being redefined in two opposite directions. On the one hand, it is being extended out from earth humans to include various alien races, or rather individuals, just as here on earth it took a long time to include non-whites – realize that native Americans had souls and that Africans were not apes, etc. In other words, humanity is a race-based term describing a non-race-based universal more-than-human quality of empathy, love, compassion etc.

On the other hand, we need to identify the impostors, entities that look human, but who lack the basic ingredient that defines this universal notion. These less-than-humans include all kinds of mechanical creatures, bots, AI, clones, archons, soulless people, and psychopaths no doubt come under this heading.

Obviously, this is a veritable minefield to be trodden with extreme caution. Hitler’s aim was something similar, only, having no proper filter, he operated on a race-by-race basis instead of a case-by-case basis. Demonizing Hitler has been an extremely effective weapon in preventing anyone with a more discerning humanity from even thinking of going there. This is a ploy that we see being used time and again: mixing the extremes of humanity with the extremes of inhumanity. We have to go there, but we also have to get it right.

I think it is a mistake to reject the ‘us and them’ scenario by proclaiming that everything is internal and we ourselves are as guilty as anyone else. We may view things from the standpoint of oneness, but there are others who do not, and by excluding themselves from the oneness, they force us to confront the ‘us and them’ scenario which is nonetheless an aberration. If we do not, it amounts to a spiritual form of appeasement. It is not going to work.

Most people do not go around killing others in every way imaginable and many more besides. We have to accept that there is an enemy apart from and outside of us who calls for energetic action in order to be stopped. Vetting prison populations certainly seems a promising first step. It may be a better alternative to a solution I saw in a video somewhere on the forum, which suggested getting psychopaths to show their total lack of empathy by inviting them to press a button to execute someone on the flimsiest of evidence, and then telling them they are next in line for the electric chair.

Eram
15th December 2013, 17:56
I wonder though, Have there ever been reports about psychopaths that did take a turn for the better ?
Is it even possible?
I don't know. The only example that comes to mind is Justoneman on this forum, who claims to be a (former) psychopath. Check him out.

Yeah, I read about that.

I don't agree with him.

... That he was a psychopath that is :)


I read once about a true psychopath that turned and wrote about how he sometimes missed the mind games that he played at work etc.
Was not really convinced though that his psychopathic fundamentals had changed though. While reading I got the sense that he changed his behavior for the better, but that he still did not feel empathy and only superficial emotions.

It would be a great breakthrough if we could come up with some sort of therapy or treatment (if the person is willing) to really turn psychopathy/sociopathy around.

Bob
15th December 2013, 17:59
I found this reply in user responses dialog, on the site Flash just posted, by a person who looks like she gave her name, stating how her life was, while living with a sociopath..

Is her report accurate?


"Was married to a diagnosed sociopath, and I've met many in my life.

He was a controller, manipulator, attention-seeking stalker who was dangerous when he was crossed or drunk.

He used our kids to control me even before the first was born.

They have no conscience, and will twist anything they can to get what they want, and they really love to use the legal system to do it.

They seem so nice and considerate when they are working the system, but are dangerous as hell behind the scene."

Flash
15th December 2013, 18:09
I found this reply in user responses dialog, on the site Flash just posted, by a person who looks like she gave her name, stating how her life was, while living with a sociopath..

Is her report accurate?


"Was married to a diagnosed sociopath, and I've met many in my life.

He was a controller, manipulator, attention-seeking stalker who was dangerous when he was crossed or drunk.

He used our kids to control me even before the first was born.

They have no conscience, and will twist anything they can to get what they want, and they really love to use the legal system to do it.

They seem so nice and considerate when they are working the system, but are dangerous as hell behind the scene."

Absolutely, the comment above is true, those are the sociopaths.

The comments are quite good. However for those saying that sociopath are very hard to detect, it is true. For psychopaths as well. I do know one that I could not detect.

The difference between the two is just a question of degree, due to impulsivity or no impulsivity.

And as Carmody said, the Young people are getting to be exceptionally intelligents and a 150 IQ sociopath is much more damageable than a 100IQ who cannot plan.

Vitalux
15th December 2013, 18:19
All your posting in this thread so far is all about your projection, your projection that is outside of reason.

And I'm not going to be defensive about bring the threat level to a specific group, to the same threat level that the rest of humanity is at. The threat level hence being understood by that group who deigns not to be (by wiring and desire) in recognition to that given threat level that the bulk of humanity is at. That group, who does not understand threat levels and does not negotiate, can be brought to the point of understanding required to create a move to a level ground of negotiation. The threat level to them must be real. Must. They must recognize this. It cannot be promise and talk, it must be as it is for the bulk of humanity- a real and true threat that is in act and motion, in happening.

Again, you mistake your knowing and understanding as everyone Else's life, actions and desires.

Stop projecting in extremis.

As for what is going on in this thread. I'm not really starting anything. This was already in the act of forming and coming into being. I'm pointing at it, and speeding it up, just a bit. Helping to define it's existence.


perhaps you are 100% correct.;)

or

I simply could be stating opinions that you "don't wish to hear or see" ;)

after all.....:ohwell:

Isn't that one of the fundamental things about humans? :noidea:
We only wish to hear and see, what we only wish to hear and see.
The truth is the last thing we wish to hear.

All successful politicians understand this about the masses.

Flash
15th December 2013, 18:20
Don't you think you are exagerating Vitalux. Psychopaths and sociopaths compose about 4% of the society, and they are found everywhere, but have more chance to be found were there is profits in any form (control of others, lots of recognition, money money money, power power power).

As for the lie detectors, I check wikileak and you may be right. I got my statistic directly from the mouth of someone working regularly with the authorities (police and more) and she must not have revised her stats for a while. She seems to be wrong.





The spirit of brotherhood can only prevail when the psychopaths ARE NOT in control


Ok lets try another approach.

Lets get everyone :fans: to make a List of the suspected psychopaths who are in control.

I will start the list with whom I might think is the psychopaths :rolleyes: in control

Police
Politicians
Bankers
Lawyers
Judges
Billionaires
Millionaires
Kings / Queens
Queers
Jews
Weathy
Folks from the slums
Drug addicts
Dead beat landlords
Dead Beat dads
The homeless
The Media
Hollywood
The government
Insurance companies
Children Aid Society
Industries that produce meat
Industries that produce fur
Industries that produce fish

Folks that speed
Folks that drive to slow
Folks that don't pick up their dog's poop from the parks
Doctors

Pharmaceutical Industry
The Military
The petroleum industries
The Hydro companies.

The Presidents?
Zions
Masons
Baptists
Christians
People with Brown Skin
Muslims
Pedophiles
Perverts
polygamists
atheists
creationists
the mentally ill
those that are physically disabled
fat people
short people
people that look funny
stupid people
folks who don't think like me
people who disagree with me
cowards
etc
etc


:wacko:



Are you smelling the coffee yet?

*smiles*

https://31.media.tumblr.com/c0c53c89087d2e210a98a665152e0c4b/tumblr_msx1eglrWm1sabwg8o1_500.gif

Bob
15th December 2013, 18:26
It appears when Anti-social personality disorder" is present, the insidious aspect is no longer as present and they act out - that is what could have happened with Karl Pierson, the recent Colorado 18 year old (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66461-Arapahoe-High-School-Shooting-13-Dec&p=771770&viewfull=1#post771770) high honors student who sought revenge against one who was the "legal system" in his immediate group.. (he was reprimanded in his "forum" of speaking and debate club, then took revenge against the leader, ending up killing himself, and wounding others in the process).

The hidden sociopath acts out when the anti-social aspects (see below) get button pushed. Easy to see in the observed actions and reactions..

Anti-Social Personality Disorder, reference:


Antisocial personality disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of a disregard for other people’s rights, often crossing the line and violating those rights.

It usually begins in childhood or as a teen and continues into their adult lives.

Antisocial personality disorder is often referred to as psychopathy or sociopathy in popular culture.

Individuals with Antisocial Personality Disorder frequently lack empathy and tend to be callous, cynical, and contemptuous of the feelings, rights, and sufferings of others.

They may have an inflated and arrogant self-appraisal (e.g., feel that ordinary work is beneath them or lack a realistic concern about their current problems or their future) and may be excessively opinionated, self-assured, or cocky.

They may display a glib, superficial charm and can be quite voluble and verbally facile (e.g., using technical terms or jargon that might impress someone who is unfamiliar with the topic).

Lack of empathy, inflated self-appraisal, and superficial charm are features that have been commonly included in traditional conceptions of psychopathy and may be particularly distinguishing of Antisocial Personality Disorder in prison or forensic settings where criminal, delinquent, or aggressive acts are likely to be nonspecific.

These individuals may also be irresponsible and exploitative in their sexual relationships.

Running through the list, above, one can check off, one by one, the items, and run a scale, an evaluation of what is being observed.

I am actually waiting for Pink Rabbit (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?20726-Pink-Rabbit) to jump in here and explain how the chemical straight-jacket tools can be used in the effective treatment.

CornCrake started the thread, and Pink Rabbit explained Risperidone's use here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65711-Major-Fraud-Plea-Has-University-Scientists-Regretting-Journal-Article--Risperdal-&p=761813&viewfull=1#post761813

Like using Risperidone for instance to burn out the dopamine and serotonin receptors - chemical psychosurgery in other words. (Risperidone good link to read on what it does to the mind: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Pharms_Risperidone_Difficult_Experiences.shtml )


I just wonder then if borderline sociopaths and/or psychopaths will try to "self-medicate" as the woman reported in the user dialog post, "He was a controller, manipulator, attention-seeking stalker who was dangerous when he was crossed or drunk. "

Vitalux
15th December 2013, 18:43
Don't you think you are exagerating Vitalux. Psychopaths and sociopaths compose about 4% of the society, and they are found everywhere, but have more chance to be found were there is profits in any form (control of others, lots of recognition, money money money, power power power).


not really exaggerating, but trying to find different ways to illustrate my point.

Lets try another way...

A what point is the glass full :confused: http://thecareerblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/glass1.jpg


Perhaps there is a little bit of sociopath is everyone. It is just a point of what events or conditions it takes to precipitate such a behavior.

Where do we draw the line in a human being where we can call them a sociopath

When they are 10%...20%...30%...50%...80%..90 %....

and by whose standards are we going to reach a consensus on:confused:

My theses statement is simple. :noidea:

Every single human being is a potential sociopath and every single human being has the quality of being schizophrenic.

Which group of schizophrenics should be put in charge?

Like I stated in an earlier post


Another way we can view this is, which of the insane inmates of an insane asylum shall we put in charge.
From my perspective, you, I, and everyone else on the planet is already insane.
Our delusions of grander and narcissism convince us otherwise.:fans:

Flash
15th December 2013, 18:50
The impact of psychopathy, stress on health and social productivity in a troup of baboon, closely related to what happens in society


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4UMyTnlaMY

Flash
15th December 2013, 18:59
Don't you think you are exagerating Vitalux. Psychopaths and sociopaths compose about 4% of the society, and they are found everywhere, but have more chance to be found were there is profits in any form (control of others, lots of recognition, money money money, power power power).


not really exaggerating, but trying to find different ways to illustrate my point.

Lets try another way...

A what point is the glass full :confused: http://thecareerblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/glass1.jpg


Perhaps there is a little bit of sociopath is everyone. It is just a point of what events or conditions it takes to precipitate such a behavior.

Where do we draw the line in a human being where we can call them a sociopath

When they are 10%...20%...30%...50%...80%..90 %....

and by whose standards are we going to reach a consensus on:confused:

My theses statement is simple. :noidea:

Every single human being is a potential sociopath and every single human being has the quality of being schizophrenic.

Which group of schizophrenics should be put in charge?

Like I stated in an earlier post


Another way we can view this is, which of the insane inmates of an insane asylum shall we put in charge.
From my perspective, you, I, and everyone else on the planet is already insane.
Our delusions of grander and narcissism convince us otherwise.:fans:


You are just defending a point Vitalux, a belief, and it has been quite well illustrated. But as long as you hold tight to your belief, you will not be able to listen to what this thread is bringing. This has a huge stalling effect, here as in society. Check my two last posts please.

We are not discussing beliefs here, we are discussing what we should be conscious of in order to change what is happening on earth.

gripreaper
15th December 2013, 20:59
So, if there is an effective test which could place everybody on a scale, not just prisoners but everybody, including the power elite, from pure empath on the one hand to abject psychopath on the other, then rules and regulations could be put in place which requires everyone to get one of these tests at the age of majority, say 18 years of age.

This would go into their master file and set up initiatives which they would be placed in to alter their brain makeup, to remove the inerrant cross wired synapses. This could be done through microwave entrainment technology. Then they would be placed in society where they would be the most happy and do the most good.

Those who test at the top of the scale, who are fully enlightened and carry avatar status, could be on the panel who decides the fate of all of the rest of us. For example, the incorrigible psychopaths could be euthanized and removed from the planet by the enlightened avatars. The rest would be entrained through microwave technology based on where we fell on the scale and what aberrant issues needed to be reprogrammed.

Once everyone has been tested, evaluated, either euthanized or entrained, then placed in society, we would all live happily ever after and all of our problems would be gone. No more nefarious psychopaths running the planet anymore, just fully readjusted and happy empaths everywhere who are enjoying themselves in abundance.

Yup, that's the ticket! If you go to the "Advanced Energy Technology Report" linked below and scroll down to the Bob Dratch section and then click on the HoloForm power point presentations, specifically powerpoint #3, yet the others too, you will see that this technology already exists and is being implemented.

http://pesn.com/2007/08/27/9500495_Advanced_Energy_Technology_Colloquium/

Flash
15th December 2013, 21:07
So, if there is an effective test which could place everybody on a scale, from pure empath on the one hand to abject psychopath on the other, then rules and regulations could be put in place which requires everyone to get one of these tests at the age of majority, say 18 years of age.

This would go into their master file and set up initiatives which they would be placed in to alter their brain makeup, to remove the inerrant cross wired synapses. This could be done through microwave entrainment technology. Then they would be placed in society where they would be the most happy and do the most good.

Those who test at the top of the scale, who are fully enlightened and carry avatar status, could be on the panel who decides the fate of all of the rest of us. For example, the incorrigible psychopaths would be euthanized and removed from the planet by the enlightened avatars. The rest would be entrained through microwave technology based on where we fell on the scale and what aberrant issues needed to be reprogrammed.

Once everyone has been tested, evaluated, either euthanized or entrained, then placed in society, we would all live happily ever after and all of our problems would be gone. No more nefarious psychopaths running the planet anymore, just fully readjusted and happy empaths everywhere who are enjoying themselves in abundance.

Yup, that's the ticket! If you go to the "Advanced Energy Technology Report" linked below and scroll down to the Bob Dratch section and then click on the HoloForm power point presentations, specifically powerpoint #3, yet the others too, you will see that this technology already exists and is being implemented.

http://pesn.com/2007/08/27/9500495_Advanced_Energy_Technology_Colloquium/

No you are wrong here. What has to be done is put out the sociopaths and psychopaths from position of power. By whichever mean. As long as they have the control and they are the ones administrating the test and deciding about what to do with the outcome, we, the sheeple, are doomed. And it is precisely what is happening right now.

As long as we use the "all equal" to let thing happens without doing anything, the sociopaths and psychopaths amongst us are running the show and the planet.

Screening everybody is useless because not all psychopaths/sociopaths are either in jail or in position of power. But those who are should be screened.

Check the video with the monkey. Only 9 minutes and truly transformative in paradigms.

gripreaper
15th December 2013, 21:18
http://pesn.com/2007/08/27/9500495_Advanced_Energy_Technology_Colloquium/


No you are wrong here. What has to be done is put out the sociopaths and psychopaths from position of power. By whichever mean. As long as they have the control and they are the ones administrating the test and deciding about what to do with the outcome, we, the sheeple, are doomed. And it is precisely what is happening right now.

Easy there sparky. Please reread what I wrote. That's the whole idea is to screen everybody including the power elite, and let those who test at the top of the scale, the highest avatars, euthanize them.

Flash
15th December 2013, 21:51
http://pesn.com/2007/08/27/9500495_Advanced_Energy_Technology_Colloquium/


No you are wrong here. What has to be done is put out the sociopaths and psychopaths from position of power. By whichever mean. As long as they have the control and they are the ones administrating the test and deciding about what to do with the outcome, we, the sheeple, are doomed. And it is precisely what is happening right now.

Easy there sparky. Please reread what I wrote. That's the whole idea is to screen everybody including the power elite, and let those who test at the top of the scale, the highest avatars, euthanize them.

The main thing is that you may not need to euthanise them if they remain at the bottom of the hierarchical chain. Look at the monkey video. But we do need to screen them to put them out of power roles.

And then, wihtin 100 or 500 générations maybe, the psychopath gene will most probably switch off.

Vitalux
15th December 2013, 21:52
http://pesn.com/2007/08/27/9500495_Advanced_Energy_Technology_Colloquium/


No you are wrong here. What has to be done is put out the sociopaths and psychopaths from position of power. By whichever mean. As long as they have the control and they are the ones administrating the test and deciding about what to do with the outcome, we, the sheeple, are doomed. And it is precisely what is happening right now.

Easy there sparky. Please reread what I wrote. That's the whole idea is to screen everybody including the power elite, and let those who test at the top of the scale, the highest avatars, euthanize them.

Marvelous idea :whoo:

We could even extend this further and do brain scan while the children are in the wombs of the pregnant mothers, and the state could terminate the pregnancy if the child did not meet strict state guide lines of what a brain should look like.

Further we could extend this pioneering work to the animals. Make it illegal for anyone to posses an animal that might have sociopath tendencies as well.

We could even set up an anonymous toll free tip line, so folks could call in and report their friends, co workers, parents, neighbors, etc, who they suspected were sociopaths. :high5:

It is a marvelous idea and needs a good groundwork of implementation to ensure it's enforcement on the human race.

Because it is of benefit to the human race, lets exercise a rule that all opposed to this idea must be a sociopath as they are against the betterment of the human species and therefore a larvated sociopath that must be euthanized immediately to avoid further contamination of the human race.

I further offer that we could call this new pioneering "wave" of human technological achievement " The Carmody" solution :yo:


*note*

just meant to generate some laughter for a comedy break.:lol:

Bob
15th December 2013, 21:55
I had pointed out above in the Anti-Social-Personality Disorder :

Antisocial personality disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of a disregard for other people’s rights, often crossing the line and violating those rights.

The key words are when the "assault" happens frequently and observation of such has happened (as Pink Rabbit mentioned), the offender had "bothered" the "establishment" exhibiting traits that tipped an official "authority's" existing measuring scales, that person then through an in-take action, either by a cop or judge, "entered the system". On entering the system, the evaluation tests ARE performed, and the "appropriate action" as determined by "the system" happens. In other countries it may not be that "gentle", I am reminded of the old psychosurgery gulags of North Korea and ex-Soviet Union.

There are many issues of discussion of abuse of the "appropriate action" determinations and then the remediation chosen to "fix" the problem.

There are no normally floor-doctor requested "brain scans" being performed (at this time) to determine psychopathy, or sociopathology - all there are is the perceived observation(s) of the attending physician (that could be biased by any sort of pre-conception of what is happening based on reports from the arresting officer, judge).

The western doctors appear to feel "chemical" remediation is the most favored easy way out. Even incarcerated "elderly" in nursing homes if they are acting out, being verbally abusive, or "bothering" the other "inmates" (residents) are given anti-psychotics (ya risperidone is a drug of choice (http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=80079)) to shut them up fast and permanently, to "fix them". (and thereby those treated will seem normal, except for the drooling and rigidity, and loss of personality)..

Kim Jong Un just executed whom he called a relative who was "skum of the earth", having been "evaluated" after actions shown as not "following the accepted" rules of the system. So top level targeting of perceived psychologically defectives does happen depending on which political system one falls under.

ref: accepted western world testing methods - http://psychcentral.com/lib/types-of-psychological-testing/0005924

ref: prison system psyche eval testing methods - https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/abstract.aspx?ID=178139

and

ref: forensic pathology - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forensic_psychology

"Forensic evaluators must be able to provide the source on which any information is based. While psychologists infrequently have to be concerned about malingering or feigning illness (presenting the "just kidding excuse frequently and pathologically" a tactic used by the sociopath presenting anti-social behavior), in a non-criminal clinical setting, a forensic psychologist is able to recognize exaggerated, manipulated or faked symptoms. Malingering exists on a continuum so the forensic psychologist must be skilled in recognizing varying degrees of feigned symptoms."

gripreaper
15th December 2013, 22:01
I further offer that we could call this new pioneering "wave" of human technological achievement " The Carmody" solution :yo:

*note* just meant to generate some laughter for a comedy break.:lol:

Nah, lets call it "Project Renaissance" or "Project Ascension" or "Project Enlightenment" or "Project Global Healing" or "Project Sustainable Initiative" or some derivative of the good guys taking over the technology of the bad guys and using it for good!

Flash
15th December 2013, 22:05
http://pesn.com/2007/08/27/9500495_Advanced_Energy_Technology_Colloquium/


No you are wrong here. What has to be done is put out the sociopaths and psychopaths from position of power. By whichever mean. As long as they have the control and they are the ones administrating the test and deciding about what to do with the outcome, we, the sheeple, are doomed. And it is precisely what is happening right now.

Easy there sparky. Please reread what I wrote. That's the whole idea is to screen everybody including the power elite, and let those who test at the top of the scale, the highest avatars, euthanize them.

Marvelous idea :whoo:

We could even extend this further and do brain scan while the children are in the wombs of the pregnant mothers, and the state could terminate the pregnancy if the child did not meet strict state guide lines of what a brain should look like.

Further we could extend this pioneering work to the animals. Make it illegal for anyone to posses an animal that might have sociopath tendencies as well.

We could even set up an anonymous toll free tip line, so folks could call in and report their friends, co workers, parents, neighbors, etc, who they suspected were sociopaths. :high5:

It is a marvelous idea and needs a good groundwork of implementation to ensure it's enforcement on the human race.

Because it is of benefit to the human race, lets exercise a rule that all opposed to this idea must be a sociopath as they are against the betterment of the human species and therefore a larvated sociopath that must be euthanized immediately to avoid further contamination of the human race.

I further offer that we could call this new pioneering "wave" of human technological achievement " The Carmody" solution :yo:


*note*

just meant to generate some laughter for a comedy break.:lol:

First, read my post above yours

Second, you are arguing on something you do not seem to personnally know that much about. Again, i repeat, you are starting from a belief that everyone is good and everyone has to have a chance, human rights. This is because you are not a psychopath, you are a good person. Good people have real difficulty comprehending the psychopath mindset.

I almost wish you to have for a few years a sociopath in your direct daily life. Just for the experience and to brake down this non helpful belief system in today's society. For many, only direct encounter with sociopathy makes us change our belief system, once we have been Under the tank of their desires or wants or power and it often takes many years to realise what is happening to us. I was one of those who would have written the kind of posts you are presently writing. I could not believe or admit to myself that people without empathy or guilt existed, I deeply thought that we are all equal in fact. In soul, yes, as long as it is with us, in 3D fact, no. This is what I realised.

As long as we think we are all made equal, which we are not, the psychopath will use that to climb on top and make us feel guilty while they DGAF.

I wish you the experience and when it happens, remember my posts, come back to it.

On a wider societal level, your reaction tells me that we will not achieve the desire result of putting them back where they belong, below the hierarchy, if hierarchy there is.

Vitalux
15th December 2013, 22:08
I had pointed out above in the Anti-Social-Personality Disorder :

Antisocial personality disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of a disregard for other people’s rights, often crossing the line and violating those rights.



My guess that it would be very difficult to pin a label of "Antisocial personality disorder" on anyone or any group

http://blogs.independent.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/pike1.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/G-20_Toronto_June_2010_(28).jpg

http://www.freewebs.com/svmike05/00kkk.gif

Flash
15th December 2013, 22:14
I had pointed out above in the Anti-Social-Personality Disorder :

Antisocial personality disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of a disregard for other people’s rights, often crossing the line and violating those rights.



My guess that it would be very difficult to pin a label of "Antisocial personality disorder" on anyone or any group

http://blogs.independent.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/pike1.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/G-20_Toronto_June_2010_(28).jpg

http://www.freewebs.com/svmike05/00kkk.gif

Agressor, agressed, how difficult is it to put a label? And why put label? Just toss aside thedefective ones, the macaque at the top who has the defective gene or brain. And all these violence would stop. Would you put an hallucinating schizophrenic (i insist on hallucinating, meaning he cannot manage his life at that given time) in charge of the government? So why, for go sh sake, do we put "hallucinating" sociopaths and psyhopaths (hallucinating because here they cannot function in a cooperating society). What is the difference???? The only one is that for the first his mental disiquilibrium is openly visible while it is not for the second.

Observer1964
15th December 2013, 23:07
I think these scans would be even more necesarry for politicians...
just imagine what that would do for our society...

DNA
16th December 2013, 05:25
Fine, I do not know if it makes much difference for leading in society though. Why would you want to be led by someone, a sociopath, or a psychopath, both. When all researches prove are damaging to society they usually are?

Because you have fun with one and his has broken no law that you know of???
Because they are fealess and have no guilt?
Oh, because they take décisions fast and without thinking for long????
The sociopath will be very happy to read this.

It really beats me your comment. I would very much rather be lead by people with lots of empathy and wisdom for the whole of society.


I have my reasons and they are lengthy and entailed.
It took me years and years before I realized how sociopaths can be such a powerful force for good.

My explanation would include Carlos Castaneda's definitions of leadership roles in his Naguel's party first off, and how Don Juan pretty much described himself as a sociopath.
This would then lead into the four pronged energetic configuration of a sociopath lending them almost superhuman energy and amazing communication skills.

Let me state it like this.

Me and my buddy the sociopath were driving down the road one day. I was driving when we saw a stranded female motorist.
I thought to myself "hmmmm, should I stop and help her?, probably, but what if she is scared because two men are stopping and approaching her on the road, she may be intimidated and think we are trying to take advantage of her, after all it is the age of the cell phone, she has probably already called for roadside assistance". As the last of this thought was running through my head my sociopath friend yelled at me to stop the vehicle so we could see if this woman needed help.
We did and yes she needed help.
She had no cell phone and we drove her to a near by gas station where she was profously greatful.

My buddy did not give a crap about offending her or scaring her, he just acted instantly and as such the woman was helped. As for myself and all my empathy, I would have left her on the side of the road rather than risk offending or scaring her.

I have many stories like this and I can get into greater detail if you wish.


It is my opinion that many of the great figuirs of society and history who have implamented great social change were sociopaths.

Vitalux
16th December 2013, 06:00
My final thoughts as i abandon this thread is that I love all of humanity and don't view myself as any better or worse than anyone else.

When I gaze out at the world before me, it is quite beautiful and flourishing in a constant change.

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQkXESWVfR7D-Z7eMEzdPS300isMqRFwo0Bc2RGz1P7gCrWgoHICg


Young energetic souls are being born and developing in an environment that is spiritually productive.

Perhaps each of us resonates just at different frequencies.

My frequency has certainly changed and l am quite happy that is has.

Part of that growth has been helped immensely by information I have acquired by Avalon Forums.

I thank Bill Ryan, and all those whose contributions make this such a great library of knowledge. :yo:

Carmody
16th December 2013, 14:31
It is my opinion that many of the great figures of society and history who have implemented great social change were sociopaths.

Do not confuse sociopath with those who have emotions and have learned and grown to handle them correctly. There is a very fundamental difference between the two. One is a horrifically dangerous self affected and instinctually driven machine.

The other can do things that logic says is necessary and has not the instinct and emotions controlling them, causing them to do something else. The emotions are part of their decisions and act, but do not run the owner of said emotions off the metaphorical road.

Again, a massive and fundamental difference between the two, and it happens down at the mind/brain wiring level, to start.

The overly kind and emotionally driven must learn that balance point. The sociopath does not even possess the emotional drive, and cannot make decisions based on anyone outside of themselves.

Your friend may not be as much the sociopath as you may think.

The danger point is to confuse any form of grown clarity... with sociopathic animalism.

One is clear due to going through the stages of learning how to handle an utilize emotions correctly. The intellect flourishes (immense growth) when the emotions stop coloring the growth process into a shorting out. (it's called 'going clear')(life and past life processing)

The other is cunning, instinctual and dangerous and driven by those instincts, and has not the emotions coloring their thoughts..and this is how they appear to be 'more clear' in their intellect.

Again, a fundamental and major difference between the two that highly emotional and emotionally controlled people (which is the bulk of humanity, to say the least) cannot see.

Bob
17th December 2013, 17:53
http://pesn.com/2007/08/27/9500495_Advanced_Energy_Technology_Colloquium/


No you are wrong here. What has to be done is put out the sociopaths and psychopaths from position of power. By whichever mean. As long as they have the control and they are the ones administrating the test and deciding about what to do with the outcome, we, the sheeple, are doomed. And it is precisely what is happening right now.

Easy there sparky. Please reread what I wrote. That's the whole idea is to screen everybody including the power elite, and let those who test at the top of the scale, the highest avatars, euthanize them.

The main thing is that you may not need to euthanise them if they remain at the bottom of the hierarchical chain. Look at the monkey video. But we do need to screen them to put them out of power roles.

And then, wihtin 100 or 500 générations maybe, the psychopath gene will most probably switch off.

Eugenics - Positive or Negative?

http://web.lemoyne.edu/~szebenyi/0204.htm

China it has been said is the current Eugenic Manipulator on the planet, modifying the population through selective breeding, birth control (justifications from over-population), but quite possibly the hidden reason being in the "big 1000 year plan", genetic stock who will rule the planet (and elsewhere..)

"The word Eugenics was first used by Francis Galton, an English geneticist from the Greek word eugenia meaning well-born. In practical terms eugenics means our intervention to modify the natural given by enhancing what is good (positive eugenics), and by decreasing or preventing what is bad (negative eugenics). It is important to realize that the two aspects of eugenics, the positive and the negative are not two sides of the same coin. They are totally different in both, methods and results."

When those "in power" use selective breeding, are the breeders clear of psychopathic or sociopathic or anti-social personality tendencies?

If, the point is continue to let the abusive elite rule and give them more knowledge and more tools to become more abusive, either overt (brazen) or hidden (covert), the end result is a slave system of takers/demanders and "providers", again feeding the abuser who has masked the program of control in a "reasonable and believable" package to allow it's aberration to perpetuate and grow; or come up with a better system and show how it is going to work.. it is always that way, isn't it?

So show us examples of what works - why such would work - how such would allow for zero slavery and an evolving stable peaceful and healthful, growing world society.

The sociopath and psychopath do not want anyone to be more able, or aware or understand how they have been manipulated or abused by themselves. Yet alone a whole world aware and safe.

Carmody
17th December 2013, 18:11
http://pesn.com/2007/08/27/9500495_Advanced_Energy_Technology_Colloquium/


No you are wrong here. What has to be done is put out the sociopaths and psychopaths from position of power. By whichever mean. As long as they have the control and they are the ones administrating the test and deciding about what to do with the outcome, we, the sheeple, are doomed. And it is precisely what is happening right now.

Easy there sparky. Please reread what I wrote. That's the whole idea is to screen everybody including the power elite, and let those who test at the top of the scale, the highest avatars, euthanize them.



@grip

I have no objective analysis on that. Nor a subjective one.

The point remains is that we can now test for this in multiple ways.

And is coming whether any of us like it or not.

I prefer that the public be aware and use it to the advantage of the group. Not to make judgements on it's use, or to use as a lever to attack others.

But in the case of extreme self centered harm, this hidden aspect can now be revealed.

But one has to be careful here, as this is a genesis, that may turn into just about anything.

Starting with the prison populations begins the cascade to eventual outing in and on all levels.

First it cuts the legs out from their excitable street level contagions (agitators), beginning the process of allowing people to think. The second stage begins the process of pulling the sociopaths from minor offices and places like childcare, schooling, police, etc. Which is the real process of cutting their support base out from under them (military, etc) ,leaving them in isolation.

The third stage removes them from all points of power and involvement in humanity.

Genetically.... wiped off the map.

And... it is coming.

Pay attention people, we are in a genetic and technology battle... and we are already deep into the starting phases.

Whether you can handle it or not, it is already here.

And this (proposal of direction), this is probably the best you can hope for. So if you back away from it in horror, then you get the stick.


Their stick, as it is coming for you, it's impacting you right now... whether you can deal with it or not.

Carmody
17th December 2013, 18:50
The Neuroscientist Who Discovered He Was a Psychopath (http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/science/2013/11/the-neuroscientist-who-discovered-he-was-a-psychopath/)


One afternoon in October 2005, neuroscientist James Fallon was looking at brain scans of serial killers. As part of a research project at UC Irvine, he was sifting through thousands of PET scans to find anatomical patterns in the brain that correlated with psychopathic tendencies in the real world.

“I was looking at many scans, scans of murderers mixed in with schizophrenics, depressives and other, normal brains,” he says. “Out of serendipity, I was also doing a study on Alzheimer’s and as part of that, had brain scans from me and everyone in my family right on my desk.”

James Fallon’s new book, The Psychopath Inside

“I got to the bottom of the stack, and saw this scan that was obviously pathological,” he says, noting that it showed low activity in certain areas of the frontal and temporal lobes linked to empathy, morality and self-control. Knowing that it belonged to a member of his family, Fallon checked his lab’s PET machine for an error (it was working perfectly fine) and then decided he simply had to break the blinding that prevented him from knowing whose brain was pictured. When he looked up the code, he was greeted by an unsettling revelation: the psychopathic brain pictured in the scan was his own.

Many of us would hide this discovery and never tell a soul, out of fear or embarrassment of being labeled a psychopath. Perhaps because boldness and disinhibition are noted psychopathic tendencies, Fallon has gone all in towards the opposite direction, telling the world about his finding in a TED Talk, an NPR interview and now a new book published last month, The Psychopath Inside. In it, Fallon seeks to reconcile how he—a happily married family man—could demonstrate the same anatomical patterns that marked the minds of serial killers.


http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/science/files/2013/11/fallon-brain-scan.jpg

“I’ve never killed anybody, or raped anyone,” he says. “So the first thing I thought was that maybe my hypothesis was wrong, and that these brain areas are not reflective of psychopathy or murderous behavior.”

But when he underwent a series of genetic tests, he got more bad news. “I had all these high-risk alleles for aggression, violence and low empathy,” he says, such as a variant of the MAO-A gene that has been linked with aggressive behavior. Eventually, based on further neurological and behavioral research into psychopathy, he decided he was indeed a psychopath—just a relatively good kind, what he and others call a “pro-social psychopath,” someone who has difficulty feeling true empathy for others but still keeps his behavior roughly within socially-acceptable bounds.

It wasn’t entirely a shock to Fallon, as he’d always been aware that he was someone especially motivated by power and manipulating others, he says. Additionally, his family line included seven alleged murderers, including Lizzie Borden, infamously accused of killing her father and stepmother in 1892.


.....(more at link)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So, Jim does not get to run countries, run finance, care for children, run large corporations, enter politics, or run militaries. (and so on).

You don't let nuns be neurologists and surgeons, they have not the skill for it.

Same thing here.

Parts of Jim are missing.

No matter how nice Jim is, essential aspects of his capacity for judgement and balancing in certain situations, is missing. We can now test for this, in multiple ways. As accurately as we can, and that accuracy is to a quite decent level. Three different tests, as a set. Genetic, written/verbal, and brainscan.

Flash
17th December 2013, 21:36
Entirely right Carmody Something is missing and it is genetically based. The only thing we can do is not letting them take power and control others, which is, in fact, what they like most and want most because it gives them a thrill that tries to compensate for the lack of emotions and compassion. But it will never do, it will never be enough.

Why in God sake do we let them run the world???


It wasn’t entirely a shock to Fallon, as he’d always been aware that he was someone especially motivated by power and manipulating others, he says.

There is no way out of it, they will be motivated by power and manipulating others to get power. THIS IS HOW THEY ARE.

DNA
17th December 2013, 21:47
Sociopaths are almost never in a position to make real decisions as far as running the world goes, they just make good front men as politicians.

Hervé
17th December 2013, 23:55
Entirely right Carmody Something is missing and it is genetically based....

[...]
.... There is no way out of it, they will be motivated by power and manipulating others to get power. THIS IS HOW THEY ARE.

Once again, let me try to offer another, different point of view from that genetic/DNA base for "mental illnesses (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66309-Do-you-think-schizophrenic-people-are-mentally-ill.....&p=770162&viewfull=1#post770162)" and all sorts of other things:

Although I don't have the references to hand, I recall of studies done on sets of true, identical twins with one of the pairs having gone berserk... and that whole genetic/DNA bandwagon of a house of cards falls flat on the floor simply because if it were true, each member of any pair would both have gone berserk... not the case, therefore it ain't genetic/DNA: those twins irrefutably demonstrate it! Period! End of argument! Point final!

On the other hand, the reverse might be true: that an individual's state of mind and its specialized use of a body radically transforms that body biology down to DNA levels:


Scientists are waking up! :gaah:

Researchers Finally Show How Mindfulness and Your Thoughts Can Induce Specific Molecular Changes To Your Genes (http://www.wakingtimes.com/2013/12/05/researchers-finally-show-mindfulness-thoughts-can-induce-specific-molecular-changes-genes/)

December 5, 2013 | By WakingTimes (http://www.wakingtimes.com/author/wakingtimes/) |

http://www.wakingtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/WIKI-DNA3-300x225.jpg (http://www.wakingtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/WIKI-DNA3.jpg)
Michael Forrester, Prevent Disease (http://preventdisease.com/news/13/120513_Researchers-Show-How-Mindfulness-Thoughts-Can-Induce-Specific-Molecular-Changes-Genes.shtml)

Waking Times (http://www.wakingtimes.com/2013/12/05/researchers-finally-show-mindfulness-thoughts-can-induce-specific-molecular-changes-genes/)
With evidence growing that training the mind or inducing specific modes of consciousness can have beneficial health effects, scientists have sought to understand how these practices physically affect the body. A new study by researchers in Wisconsin, Spain, and France reports the first evidence of specific molecular changes in the body following a period of intensive mindfulness practice.

The study investigated the effects of a day of intensive mindfulness practice in a group of experienced meditators, compared to a group of untrained control subjects who engaged in quiet non-meditative activities. After eight hours of mindfulness practice, the meditators showed a range of genetic and molecular differences, including altered levels of gene-regulating machinery and reduced levels of pro-inflammatory genes, which in turn correlated with faster physical recovery from a stressful situation.

“To the best of our knowledge, this is the first paper that shows rapid alterations in gene expression within subjects associated with mindfulness meditation practice,” says study author Richard J. Davidson, founder of the Center for Investigating Healthy Minds and the William James and Vilas Professor of Psychology and Psychiatry at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

“Most interestingly, the changes were observed in genes that are the current targets of anti-inflammatory and analgesic drugs,” says Perla Kaliman, first author of the article and a researcher at the Institute of Biomedical Research of Barcelona, Spain (IIBB-CSIC-IDIBAPS), where the molecular analyses were conducted.

The study was published in the Journal Psychoneuroendocrinolog (http://www.journals.elsevier.com/psychoneuroendocrinology/)y.

Mindfulness-based trainings have shown beneficial effects on inflammatory disorders in prior clinical studies and are endorsed by the American Heart Association as a preventative intervention. The new results provide a possible biological mechanism for therapeutic effects.

Gene Activity Can Change According To Perception
According to Dr. Bruce Lipton, gene activity can change on a daily basis. If the perception in your mind is reflected in the chemistry of your body, and if your nervous system reads and interprets the environment and then controls the blood’s chemistry, then you can literally change the fate of your cells by altering your thoughts.

In fact, Dr. Lipton’s research illustrates that by changing your perception, your mind can alter the activity of your genes and create over thirty thousand variations of products from each gene. He gives more detail by saying that the gene programs are contained within the nucleus of the cell, and you can rewrite those genetic programs through changing your blood chemistry.

In the simplest terms, this means that we need to change the way we think if we are to heal cancer. “The function of the mind is to create coherence between our beliefs and the reality we experience,” Dr. Lipton said. “What that means is that your mind will adjust the body’s biology and behavior to fit with your beliefs. If you’ve been told you’ll die in six months and your mind believes it, you most likely will die in six months. That’s called the nocebo effect, the result of a negative thought, which is the opposite of the placebo effect, where healing is mediated by a positive thought.”

That dynamic points to a three-party system: there’s the part of you that swears it doesn’t want to die (the conscious mind), trumped by the part that believes you will (the doctor’s prognosis mediated by the subconscious mind), which then throws into gear the chemical reaction (mediated by the brain’s chemistry) to make sure the body conforms to the dominant belief. (Neuroscience has recognized that the subconscious controls 95 percent of our lives.)

Now what about the part that doesn’t want to die–the conscious mind? Isn’t it impacting the body’s chemistry as well? Dr. Lipton said that it comes down to how the subconscious mind, which contains our deepest beliefs, has been programmed. It is these beliefs that ultimately cast the deciding vote.

“It’s a complex situation,” said Dr. Lipton. People have been programmed to believe that they’re victims and that they have no control. We’re programmed from the start with our mother and father’s beliefs. So, for instance, when we got sick, we were told by our parents that we had to go to the doctor because the doctor is the authority concerning our health. We all got the message throughout childhood that doctors were the authority on health and that we were victims of bodily forces beyond our ability to control. The joke, however, is that people often get better while on the way to the doctor. That’s when the innate ability for self-healing kicks in, another example of the placebo effect.

Mindfulness Practice Specifically Affects Regulatory Pathways
The results of Davidson’s study show a down-regulation of genes that have been implicated in inflammation. The affected genes include the pro-inflammatory genes RIPK2 and COX2 as well as several histone deacetylase (HDAC) genes, which regulate the activity of other genes epigenetically by removing a type of chemical tag. What’s more, the extent to which some of those genes were downregulated was associated with faster cortisol recovery to a social stress test involving an impromptu speech and tasks requiring mental calculations performed in front of an audience and video camera.

Biologists have suspected for years that some kind of epigenetic inheritance occurs at the cellular level (http://preventdisease.com/news/11/032811_nutrition_epigenetics.shtml). The different kinds of cells in our bodies provide an example. Skin cells and brain cells have different forms and functions, despite having exactly the same DNA. There must be mechanisms–other than DNA–that make sure skin cells stay skin cells when they divide.

Perhaps surprisingly, the researchers say, there was no difference in the tested genes between the two groups of people at the start of the study. The observed effects were seen only in the meditators following mindfulness practice. In addition, several other DNA-modifying genes showed no differences between groups, suggesting that the mindfulness practice specifically affected certain regulatory pathways.

The key result is that meditators experienced genetic changes following mindfulness practice that were not seen in the non-meditating group after other quiet activities — an outcome providing proof of principle that mindfulness practice can lead to epigenetic alterations of the genome.

Previous studies in rodents and in people have shown dynamic epigenetic responses to physical stimuli such as stress, diet, or exercise within just a few hours.

“Our genes are quite dynamic in their expression and these results suggest that the calmness of our mind can actually have a potential influence on their expression,” Davidson says.

“The regulation of HDACs and inflammatory pathways may represent some of the mechanisms underlying the therapeutic potential of mindfulness-based interventions,” Kaliman says. “Our findings set the foundation for future studies to further assess meditation strategies for the treatment of chronic inflammatory conditions.”

Subconscious Beliefs Are Key
Too many positive thinkers know that thinking good thoughts–and reciting affirmations for hours on end–doesn’t always bring about the results that feel-good books promise.

Dr. Lipton didn’t argue this point, because positive thoughts come from the conscious mind, while contradictory negative thoughts are usually programmed in the more powerful subconscious mind.

“The major problem is that people are aware of their conscious beliefs and behaviors, but not of subconscious beliefs and behaviors. Most people don’t even acknowledge that their subconscious mind is at play, when the fact is that the subconscious mind is a million times more powerful than the conscious mind and that we operate 95 to 99 percent of our lives from subconscious programs.

“Your subconscious beliefs are working either for you or against you, but the truth is that you are not controlling your life, because your subconscious mind supersedes all conscious control. So when you are trying to heal from a conscious level–citing affirmations and telling yourself you’re healthy–there may be an invisible subconscious program that’s sabotaging you.”

The power of the subconscious mind is elegantly revealed in people expressing multiple personalities. While occupying the mind-set of one personality, the individual may be severely allergic to strawberries. Then, in experiencing the mind-set of another personality, he or she eats them without consequence.

The new science of epigenetics promises that every person on the planet has the opportunity to become who they really are, complete with unimaginable power and the ability to operate from, and go for, the highest possibilities, including healing our bodies and our culture and living in peace.

About the Author
Michael Forrester (http://preventdisease.com/) is a spiritual counselor and is a practicing motivational speaker for corporations in Japan, Canada and the United States.

Then... there may be memories of such states of mind from past lives which induced such transformed bodies back then... that can be triggered/reactivated into activity/re-enactment because of a matching of those state of mind related biological alterations with current hereditary genetic inheritance or because one's gut flaura/fauna goes out of line, or... etc... into current here and now... and fooling those other scientists into believing that it's all genetics and you are born that way and there is nothing we can do about it; so, here is your guillotine's appointment!

Then... of course... the above is not to be confused with those pesky attachments or hitchhikers or possessing demons/entities which, them too, can wreck havoc with the host's body's DNA/genetics:


[...]

Here is a great example from Steve Richards:



Steve: Okay, there’s a whole range of things out there today, you know, interfering with people today. You’ve got one, you’ve got thoughts, thought‐form, become life forms, that evolve into entities, internal. You’ve got external entities out there. You go to the local pub, and you get on the grogs [Aussie term for alcoholic beverages] and the alcohol, their defenses are down, in they come, and they take over. You’ve got genetic stuff that can have stuff attached to it down through the time, where you have other beings attached. You can have animal spirits or human spirits in there. You know, animal spirits is an interesting one, I mean, I had a beauty one day, this guy he’s been over twenty psychiatrists and psychologists and no one can help him.

He comes to me, holds his arms out and he says, “look at this,” and he’s got stitches at both elbows. He said, “I’m getting thrown around the room by an invisible force. They broke both me arms, broke three of me ribs, you know another time jumped in me girlfriend and ripped half the hair out of me head, clawed me.” He said, “this thing’s huge, I want to get rid of it.” I say, ‘okay, get on the table.’ So I said, ‘when did it start?’ He said, “Nine to ten years ago I went to a party, and I got drunk. I woke the next morning, there’s a guy on my chest belting the living daylights out of me, accusing me of stealing. Never been so petrified in my entire life. From that day on this thing would surface. It was huge. It would pick me up, throw me across the room, threw me down flights of stairs, broke me arms, broke me ribs, I want to get rid of it.” Back on the table. I accessed, I called this thing up and next thing I’m hanging onto his head, by these two points I’m holding, and he starts physically shapeshifting. His mouth extends out and he starts yawning long yawns, and belching. And its like something twenty times my size belching away on the table. I thought, ‘what in the hell have I got here?’ I said, ‘Spirit, how far back in time did this take place?’ And instantly speaking out of him his Spirit said, “fifteen‐hundred years ago.” ‘Thank you. Go there, what happened?’ “I’m a hunter.” ‘Thank you. And what’s happening?’ “I’ve hunted down a bear.” ‘Thank you, what happened?’ “I got close to the bear, I thought it was dead, it was still alive. It turned on me. Bit off my right arm, bit off me left arm, and clawed me to death. “ He and the bear had now both died in an integrated universe of fear which has been asleep for fifteen‐hundred years. Nineteen years ago he’d never been so petrified in his entire life it triggered up that dimension which now overlaid itself in present day. The Spirit of the bear’s in there and he wants out, it’s throwing him around the room. I had to bring the Spirit of the bear up, enfold space‐time, send him back fifteen‐hundred years, change the past and the present for the future. Then set, put him aside, bring the man back fifteen‐hundred years, change the past and the present so it never occurs in the future cycle of time. Release the Spirit of the bear, the guy gets up, ‘My God, it makes so much sense, I’ve had nightmares for years about being attacked by a bear. That and of all, look at this. He took his shirt off and turned around, his back and his backside and his chest were covered in hairs two inches long. The thing was morphing through into him.

This throws Darwin theory totally out the window, ‘cause Darwin theory is based only on the physical structure down the genetic line, it does not take into consideration the other forces that enter with the Spirit, and they’re in the vehicle. You get people sometimes barking like a dog and clucking like a chicken – Tourette’s syndrome. I go in and take up the animal Spirits, and take them out, and no more Tourette’s.
Think about it, both bear and man probably died on another continent... how come both memories get to incarnate on a different continent in a different body line and the guy's body starts growing bear fur?

[...]

Carmody
18th December 2013, 00:57
Sociopaths are almost never in a position to make real decisions as far as running the world goes, they just make good front men as politicians.

You made a statement, as if it is fact.

In reality it is a feeling you are projecting into being a reality, for the rest of us.

I must strongly disagree that your statement is factual.

What we have here is enough circumstantial evidence, to show that the situation is as stated, that it is not just probable, but very very very very likely (small to non-existent margin of error) that the world is being run not by what appears to be apex predators, but people who are in effect 'retarded'. People with damaged brains and damaged minds, which are passed down through generation after generation. And that they mix with one another, they collude with one another, as that is who they identify with, same as anyone else. They work, associate, and travel in packs. They breed with one another, it was and is inevitable.

That is what the evidence of the world condition, in all the branches of politics, corporate, finance, military (religion is definitely not excluded) and so on..all the results say this, directly.

They are not strong willed apex predators, they are damaged goods. Retarded, in all possible directions and meanings of the factual sense of the word 'retarded'.

And they have to be removed from positions of power and influence, for the rest of humanity's sake.

Yesterday, if not sooner.

Carmody
29th December 2013, 23:38
. :bump2:

Shezbeth
30th December 2013, 00:01
I agree with Carmody and DNA, with a slight qualification.

I agree that sociopaths are - in a manner of speaking - non-conducive for anyone other than other sociopaths. According to research and testimony it appears that they are particularly dispositioned to create/perpetuate climates and situations which are advantageous to themselves and those like-minded.

As such, I agree with DNA's statement about sociopaths and being in positions to effect change, but that is because the dominant hierarchy/structure is by nature sociopathic, and anyone allowed to a position of relative power does not do so before an exhaustive vetting process geared toward eliminating non-sociopaths.

As far as being retarded and/or strong-willed apex predators,... tomato, tomahto. ^_~

As far as removing them, how indeed? It isn't as though some somewhere wouldn't have a contingency plan for every possible attempt a populace could effect. MF'ers have thousands of think-tanks after all,.... ^_~

Carmody
30th December 2013, 00:51
Elimination is simple. Start with the identification programs via the three paths (genetic, observation & brainscan), in 'western democracies', like Sweden, Norway, Holland, whichever country decides to try it first. I have a feeling it would start in those countries, or somewhat like them, first. Heck, it might even be Poland or Croatia, who does it first.

The point is, the results would begin a cascade toward identification and neutralization of all sociopaths in all systems.

If we are going to be having games played with us in the realm of technology and genetics, which what is coming at us like a freight train right now... then send the same methods and energies right back at them, and use the mirror of it...to excise them out of the system.

All it takes is one person in one system somewhere... a government employee, a university professor, to begin the process. It may take a bit of time, but it will be coming.

Hazel
30th December 2013, 00:57
IMHO after some history of working in male and female federal Canadian prisons one might want to implement the test for the staff members first and foremest before testing the prisoners..................:)

Corrupt agendas

You echo my fears for such an undertaking sandy...

I can foresee all manner of corruptions and misuses of such scanning and sifting by the PTB..
blowing out to 1984 kind of scenario's... used on national/world populations.

Call me overly imaginative/ reactive/paranoid... but should such steps be implemented we could be forging a very dark future indeed...
e.g: as with the current rife pharmaceutical profitized agendas for sedating the sheeple.

Carmody
30th December 2013, 01:00
IMHO after some history of working in male and female federal Canadian prisons one might want to implement the test for the staff members first and foremest before testing the prisoners..................:)corruptions

You echo my fears for such an undertaking sandy...

I can foresee all manner of corruptions and misuses of such scanning and sifting by the PTB..
blowing out to 1984 kind of scenario's... used on national/world populations.

Call me overly imaginative/ reactive/paranoid... but should such steps be implemented we could be forging a very dark future indeed...
e.g: as with the current pharmaceutical agendas for sedating the sheeple.

This Is Coming, Regardless. (of anyone's position on the subject)

Get it?

So..grab the sword spinning through the air.... that is coming at you... and throw it right back at them..

This is about being proactive, not reactive. It is the reactive that kills.... and drives one into being the lemming that is pushed off the cliff.

Make them the domino that falls, instead of you. Your choice.

Being on this planet is not about capitulation/acceptance or overt reactive violence. It's about finding balance.

Putting this on their plate... as they begin the process of thrusting it at you, is part of finding that balance.

gripreaper
30th December 2013, 01:27
Well, if we can say with certainty that the psychopaths are running the planet, and that very sophisticated microwave entrainment technology is available to these psychopaths, and there is an agenda to entrain the entire population of earth towards a fascist totalitarian one world dictatorship, then what are the solutions?

We could say that 2013 was the consummate beta test of this entrainment technology, tied together with the surveillance and data mining grids which are fully in place, the handheld microwave devices everyone is so enamored with, as well as the smart meters on every house, which can act as amplifiers for the microwave signals. The psychopaths have this grid in place. Avalon has experienced some of this beta testing in the last few years as well.

Couple that with the imminence of some manufactured global events, such as an economic collapse or a EMP type event, or what would appear to be a natural phenomenon, has set the stage for 2014 to be the year of the roll-out of the Hegelian dialectic of “problem, reaction, solution” and the ability to steer the reaction into exactly the preferred solution.

I’m not interested in endless debate on whether some psychopaths are good or whether these tendencies are genetic or energetic, whether entrainment can be altered by perception of the observer, or whether or not these entities have souls and are rehabilitatable. It’s more important at this juncture to move to solutions which include more than tin foil hats or tin foil encased within the bindings of a book for your own personal protection from entrainment technology.

I know there are those here who have been exposed for decades to this technology and have witnessed its use for nefarious agendas, typically in the field of battle, and are on the inside and could potentially act as Trojan’s to foster countermeasures which could use this entrainment technology for good, while maintaining the integrity of the species and its inherent ability to use its own inner technology of the soul to affect change on a global collective scale.

The battle has always been between the inner technology versus the outer technology, and who controls it. We each have control over our own inner technology, as long as we are aware and able to husband it and keep it free from outer technology influences of the nefarious type, but what about the general population who has no knowledge of what is being done to them while they believe it is their own thoughts which are guiding them?

When I try to share what I know with others in my sphere of influence, both families, friends and coworkers, I get that look which says that I must have three heads and am totally out of touch with the collective entrainment of society and its norms. I can hardly turn the TV and radio on because the energy is so toxic to me, and I’m at an impasse. I’m aware and ready, but what else can I do?

If anyone here knows how this microwave entrainment technology could be implemented for good, not just for testing prisoners, but to bring about a synthesis which circumvents the globalist totalitarian agenda, while empowering the individual to recognize and foster their own inner technology, I’m all ears.

Bob
30th December 2013, 06:42
Elimination is simple. Start with the identification programs via the three paths (genetic, observation & brainscan), in 'western democracies', like Sweden, Norway, Holland, whichever country decides to try it first. I have a feeling it would start in those countries, or somewhat like them, first. Heck, it might even Poland or Croatia, who does it first.

The point is, the results would begin a cascade toward identification and neutralization of all sociopaths in all systems.

If we are going to be having games played with us in the realm of technology and genetics, which what is coming at us like a freight train right now... then send the same methods and energies right back at them, and use the mirror of it...to excise them out of the system.

All it takes is one person in one system somewhere... a government employee, a university professor, to begin the process. It may take a bit of time, but it will be coming.

Agreed ID steps.. defining what is the active pattern of a MANIFESTING psychopath, or MANIFESTING sociopath defines the level of danger to themselves and society.. good observation Carmody.

Bob
1st January 2014, 21:53
EEG's allow for liars to be found...

Carmody have you heard of the certain brainwave spikes which appear in an EEG when a subject is lying..

My belief is a sociopath or psychopath may have similar types of EEG's readily determinable..

I think and going out on a limb here a tad, current remote sensing technology would be capable of picking up such emissions "at a distance", and such could be used also to find if a "terrorist" is harboring intent..

EEG electrodes, only three needed, Fz, Cz and Pz are looked at. We then combined data from the three electrodes using Fisher's method so that each participant was assigned a single p-value, which represents the combined probability that a specific participant was being deceptive. "

from: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0054258

that would look like a readily available monitoring method, as modified, to solve the issue about sociopath and psychopath determination with minimal costs.


http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0054258.g001&representation=PNG_I

Flash
1st January 2014, 22:07
My belief is that they don't have those spikes while lying, this is what makes them psychopaths. YOu have to look at the absence of spikes plus other anomalies.

Bob
2nd January 2014, 05:11
My belief is that they don't have those spikes while lying, this is what makes them psychopaths. YOu have to look at the absence of spikes plus other anomalies.

Could be, point being something would be different than the norm which is what the gene analysis is showing - different physical structure means an electrical wiring pattern (with monitorable data) would be present, sorta like the sound of a volkswagen car sounds different than a corvette .. form changes the "signal patterns" - the information can be determined through what they call "FFT" wavelet analysis (a method to look at the groups of frequencies to see what is present or not.. missing frequencies or added could show up)

Flash
2nd January 2014, 06:01
My belief is that they don't have those spikes while lying, this is what makes them psychopaths. YOu have to look at the absence of spikes plus other anomalies.

Could be, point being something would be different than the norm which is what the gene analysis is showing - different physical structure means an electrical wiring pattern (with monitorable data) would be present, sorta like the sound of a volkswagen car sounds different than a corvette .. form changes the "signal patterns" - the information can be determined through what they call "FFT" wavelet analysis (a method to look at the groups of frequencies to see what is present or not.. missing frequencies or added could show up)

Yes you are right, if your read the previous pages, you will find that the patterns have already been found and psychopaths can be detected.

The question remaining is why don't we, the regular folks, recognise that we have a major problems when these people have power and that there is a a mean to do something about it. And then, why don't we do it. This is the main culprit, or problem. Why are we so lenient towards bandits, thiefs and psychopaths, and here I do not mean the regular little thief filling USA jail but those those that arent in jail and are doing most of the damages on this planet, like banksters, politicians that are psychopaths, companies that have all the descriptions of corporate psychopathy, etc.

Bob
2nd January 2014, 06:05
My belief is that they don't have those spikes while lying, this is what makes them psychopaths. YOu have to look at the absence of spikes plus other anomalies.

Could be, point being something would be different than the norm which is what the gene analysis is showing - different physical structure means an electrical wiring pattern (with monitorable data) would be present, sorta like the sound of a volkswagen car sounds different than a corvette .. form changes the "signal patterns" - the information can be determined through what they call "FFT" wavelet analysis (a method to look at the groups of frequencies to see what is present or not.. missing frequencies or added could show up)

Yes you are right, if your read the previous pages, you will find that the patterns have already been found and psychopaths can be detected.

OK then, a wireless method able to sense such signals at a distance fast and non-invasively would provide the solution needed for sorting this.. Wireless means rapid checking.. The question of course now is what is "invasion of privacy"..

I guess if one is TRANSMITTING one's brainwaves out into the public anyway, such is NOT private any longer... Anyone innovative enough to come up with a sensitive enough directional receiver would provide what is needed by the group(s) who would attempt to map out the first step, looking for the manifesting psychotic/sociopath/psychopath. (Pretty much any pattern(s) identifyable, either signal spectrum present or signal spectrum present not..)

Wireless methods define what the previous pages suggest that gene or EEG's are needed using wires.. I propose wireless..

Flash
2nd January 2014, 06:17
The method has been found, which is brain scan, however doing it Wireless would be much more efficient.

But doing it on the general public is tantamount to NSA actually doing it on people and sending brainwave messages into peoples brain, and furthermore, they are the one to be examined, this is one of the nest of psychopathy. In fact, they may already be doing it and are using it by hiring them lol

The problem is with the people, the sheeple. As Carmody said, we could start in jail, staff and prisoners alike, then go in some corporations like banks, at clerk levels then going up the ladder, etc. It should not be left in the spying agency's hands alone.

How do we change the sheeple mentality about these?

Bob
2nd January 2014, 06:23
The method has been found, which is brain scan, however doing it Wireless would be much more efficient.

But doing it on the general public is tantamount to NSA actually doing it on people and sending brainwave messages into peoples brain, and furthermore, they are the one to be examined, this is one of the nest of psychopathy. In fact, they may already be doing it and are using it by hiring them lol

The problem is with the people, the sheeple. As Carmody said, we could start in jail, staff and prisoners alike, then go in some corporations like banks, at clerk levels then going up the ladder, etc. It should not be left in the spying agency's hands alone.

How do we change the sheeple mentality about these?

There we go. Today I have seen at least 3 solid posts saying exactly the same thing - first identify, then show HOW it is done, that puts consciousness understanding on the subject, the first step of enlightenment, understand then discuss what is understood, solving the hidden unknown.. Folks say often enough it is there, but discovering how it could be there solves the unknown, it takes out of quantum speculation and puts it where it can be solved. thank you for re-stating the solving steps..

anonymous
10th January 2014, 01:03
my privacy standards have changed - 5/10/16 - apologies for the many edits of public comments

Sidney
10th January 2014, 01:14
I would love to see a brain scan of every politician that ever held office. I truly wonder the percentage of sociopaths that reside inside the world of leaders.

Flash
10th January 2014, 01:30
I would love to see a brain scan of every politician that ever held office. I truly wonder the percentage of sociopaths that reside inside the world of leaders.

Me too, I would love that.

Carmody
18th January 2014, 15:56
Finding sociopaths and psychopaths, via their recorded verbal history --Empathetic detection software:

AI is so over: This is artificial empathy (http://theweek.com/article/index/254852/ai-is-so-over-this-is-artificial-empathy)
Your local call center may know more about you than your therapist

Are you the kind of person who prefers to be chatty on customer service calls, or do you like to get right to the point? Do you prefer to be led through an explanation every step of the way, or do you prefer that the person on the other end just shut up and "do what they need to do"? Do you prefer person-centered explanations, or technical explanations? Are you outgoing, or are you shy?

Believe it or not, there is a computer system out there that can figure out the details of your personality and interaction style after listening to mere seconds of your phone calls. In fact, this may have already happened the last time you called a customer service line. There is no way you would ever know.

Mattersight is an extremely sophisticated data analysis system that listens to the way you respond on the telephone. It listens to you in the background, and breaks down hundreds of micro-features of your voice: Volume, tone, pauses, speed of response, and so on. It uses mathematical algorithms to interpret these features, compare them to data in its databases, and come up with a personality profile for you.

All of this happens, by the way, during the first few seconds that you are on the phone. It could even be happening while you are working your way through a voice-activated menu system.

Then, when you are finally connected to a sales representative or customer service professional, Mattersight takes its analysis of your personality, compares it to the personality profiles of the call center employees that it has on file, and automatically connects you with the service agent that you are most compatible with.

As a result, you will have a better customer experience. If you like brusque and professional, you will be connected with someone who is brusque and professional; on the other hand, if you like friendly and chatty, you will be connected with someone who asks how your day is going.

You will never even know that Mattersight was behind the scenes, manipulating the whole thing. In some cases, even the customer service representative may not know. But the end result is that both parties come away from the experience knowing that they were talking to someone who was "easy to get along with."

... ... ... ...

But how far can this profiling go? By gathering data about your vocal distress level, incorrect responses, or dialect, can Mattersight detect whether you might be someone who is trying to commit fraud? Can it be used to predict the chances that you might miss payments, or skip out on a debt?

Can it be used to detect psychopathy? As the raw amount of data that we can extract from vocal interaction increases, and as the mathematical systems for examining those data improve, we will be able to make increasingly better predictions about nearly all aspects of a caller's personality, even those that one might normally think of as being "private."

How comfortable do you feel that Mattersight can use "big data" techniques to find out more about you than your therapist can find out by laying you on a couch once a week?

Although Mattersight does not advertise its system as "artificial intelligence," its data mining techniques are reminiscent of many of the artificial intelligence techniques that have been discovered and refined over the last several decades. Traditional "artificial intelligence" is usually associated with, for example, taking voice commands and extracting the meanings of words and sentences.

Mattersight's system, on the other hand, is more like "artificial empathy": It takes the same stream of verbal input, and it extracts information about the speaker's mood, personality, and interaction style. This is basically the same thing that people do intuitively when listening to one another: Assessing mood, feelings, and personality.

~~~~~~~~~~

It could be a very simple matter to work this software in a different direction. not easy to say without looking closely at the parameters involved. However, testing and modelling goes a long way. to me, it appears to have a definite capacity to be restructured and re-targeted.

I'm sure the NSA (and whomever else) is already using their own version of this in their systems.

In this case, to turn the tables on this situation. - For the detection and identification of sociopaths and psychopaths. Another tool in the toolchest.


That's now 4 quadrants of modern detection and exposure. The error rate will be low when all are used. Please, identify the problems in the use of such a thing and then the workaround can be created. I understand that such will exist and I can easily bring up a few 'caveats' almost immediately. But overall, it would be an incredible new tool.

It's use on politicians , corporate heads, financial heads, military personnel, elitist rich, and so on, would really bring the exposure level to being right through the roof, and every minute of recorded and analyzed speech would only increase the level of accuracy.

Those sorts of people have to talk, in public, all the time, so.. in effect, retrofitted to the existing power structure and the record of their videos and conversations, meetings, public discussions, congressional records, the united nations, European council... means that the current group, via this form of analysis, is..right now...VERY Heavily exposed.




I would love to see a brain scan of every politician that ever held office. I truly wonder the percentage of sociopaths that reside inside the world of leaders.

Me too, I would love that.

We can do one better.... One that is much... much better.

To identify the potential targets and the potential accuracy as a 'hit' ...with high levels of accuracy, before taking it further.

Carmody
18th January 2014, 16:48
First concern, that 'scripting and coaching' can get them past these sort of detection systems.

A: the software can easily detect when a bit of scripting is in place, as it will repeat itself,and fail when something unplanned, aka, normal random interactions take place.

I mean, right now, the UN, the US congress, the US senate, the whitehouse, the mayors and upper staff of all major cities, media moguls, military, religious, and so on, can be analyzed via this software.

They all have a huge record of recorded interactions.

And they WILL stick out like a sore thumb.

For example, that a person cannot be a police officer unless they can pass a 'four quadrant' test.

An actual 'real' police officer is not about being cold and killing people, or belonging to a gang of similar (police) who feel that they are the real people and all others are not. It is about the exact opposite, about being in the people, of the people, by the people, for the people.

A real and actual police officer is about being empathetic and being for the people. most of us have encountered these real police officers. And we wonder where they have all gone, and we are now confronted with a wall of stony machine like sociopaths, in police uniforms.

This can put an end to that fascist nightmare and projection that emergent technology has provided them, under cover of secrecy and night and might, to try and wholly overpower and control humanity, to twist it all to their desires.

This technology gives us the avenue and the methods to raze them right back down to the source points.

As for those who never see the public light...and will remain hidden in the backdrop....well..they need sociopaths and psychopaths to do their bidding, in the public space. Empathetic human being would not touch their plans or desires, or be involved. Not with a thousand foot pole.

This thread, and all in it, will shut that door of utilization of such damaged people. Hard.

Mad Hatter
19th January 2014, 06:45
How do we change the sheeple mentality about these?

Donning the lateral thinking cap for a mo...

What would it take to get a 'Mattersight' into the hands of a comedian for use on prime time at say election time?

Could Icke's TV channel be a possible avenue for introducing the usefulness of such technology to the masses?

& BUMP ;)

GreenGuy
19th January 2014, 20:51
To brain-scan every entry, and then place them in designated areas, according to their wiring type. To separate the true sociopath, from the rest of the prison population.

The rest of the population will immediately settle down and then one can move toward actual and real rehabilitation of those who can be rehabilitated.

Right now, the mess is so bad, in most prisons and most countries, that the sociopaths, the true ones, are so bad, that they end up creating a permanent mess inside of those prisons.

With the brain-scanning and proper placement, the ability to reduce the prison population will be able to emerge from said mess. And that the true group who, by their wiring, cannot be rehabilitated, they can be properly contained.

Besides prison, the places where sociopaths congregate are governments, churches, and large financial institutions and corporate conglomerates. Banks and corporations are private-sector, but the government is not. So I propose we also brain-scan everyone in government, from the level of school board all the way to the top levels, and weed out the sociopaths. We can then place these people in isolation along with those already in prison, while creating employment for those getting out by putting them in the jobs that the sociopaths vacated.

Surely the results would be at least as good as what we're getting now.

Curt
19th January 2014, 21:30
The potential for abuse of this tech is huge. Must be careful.

Plus, you might find there is a spectrum of sociopathy. And that folk with 'borderline' personalities may or may not be caught up in the net.

Also, there are shades of 'scientific dictatorship by degree' in the suggestion of scanning prisoners. They're often the first stop for 'testing'.

Curt
19th January 2014, 21:56
Also, however foolproof the tech may be, it wil still be applied by human beings. It will be interpreted and read by human beings. And it will have been designed by human beings as well.

It could be a valuable tool as part of a more comprehensive vetting process. It could be valuable as 'one tool among many'.

But as a single silver bullet solution, it could be dangerous.

Curt
21st January 2014, 12:40
It strikes me now, too, that this tech could by used by a single group of sociopaths to gain control over all their sociopathic competition.

It could be used by the real rulers, i.e., those who would never be subjected to testing, by virtue of their being unknown to us, to 'selectively' take out or gain leverage over the sociopaths who are visible in the public eye.

So, it could end up being a tool of the very people who we would like to see stopped.

And even more broadly speaking, the possibility of 'selective enforcement', could throw a massive monkey wrench into the system, potentially making the testing more dangerous than it might be helpful.

Just a few things to consider.

Carmody
21st January 2014, 17:31
Yes, all these things need be considered.

There is no doubt of any kind that such a set of tools would a target of manipulation. That is the nature of this reality and what is going on.

But, our tools of analysis of self and other must increase to a new level, regarding how humanity is unfolding. Otherwise this set of tools remains hidden and used against us in a method of someone else's unfolding, someone else's set of more public introductions and methodologies.

My original posting in this thread was addressing these points.

I said that this is coming regardless..... and if you don't consciously drive it.......then someone else will.

Those given other groups, will unfold it into their advantage, not yours.

to not let that happen and begin the process of driving it.. so it can be used to show their hand, methods, and tools.

anonymous
21st January 2014, 18:05
my privacy standards have changed - 5/10/16 - apologies for the many edits of public comments

Flash
21st January 2014, 18:41
What about the choice these sociopath's still have. For example, the doctor who discovered he was a sociopath... but he wasn't acting criminal. What if he went away on 'petty' charges, only to be classified as 'sociopathic' and then he is thrown in with the rest, lost, and ate, by 'the system'...

What if despite how he was 'born', he wanted to break the mold, and change, for the better? Let's throw him in anyway :-) I mean, he is a sociopath... this may have already been addressed =P

I'm just glad that I didn't get stuck in there. That is what to be scared of!

Like you said, this, as with anything, needs to be regulated and protected from corruption. Hopefully the corrupt don't become the regulators, again.

No problem, he can become what he wants and change towards the better as long as he has no position of power over others. Simple. Psychopaths and sociopaths are lacking something in the brain and it seems to be coming from a genetic input. If that could be remedied, no problems either, but for the moment, the biological component cannot be remedied.

So no position of power over others would be the solution. Like in the monkey troup, look at the video.

anonymous
21st January 2014, 18:47
my privacy standards have changed - 5/10/16 - apologies for the many edits of public comments

Flash
21st January 2014, 18:56
What about the choice these sociopath's still have. For example, the doctor who discovered he was a sociopath... but he wasn't acting criminal. What if he went away on 'petty' charges, only to be classified as 'sociopathic' and then he is thrown in with the rest, lost, and ate, by 'the system'...

What if despite how he was 'born', he wanted to break the mold, and change, for the better? Let's throw him in anyway :-) I mean, he is a sociopath... this may have already been addressed =P

I'm just glad that I didn't get stuck in there. That is what to be scared of!

Like you said, this, as with anything, needs to be regulated and protected from corruption. Hopefully the corrupt don't become the regulators, again.

No problem, he can become what he wants and change towards the better as long as he has no position of power over others. Simple. Psychopaths and sociopaths are lacking something in the brain and it seems to be coming from a genetic input. If that could be remedied, no problems either, but for the moment, the biological component cannot be remedied.

So no position of power over others would be the solution. Like in the monkey troup, look at the video.

Of course he could change, but if classified and stuck in prison with the non changing sociopaths....

IMO the biological component can be remedied. Decide to change. Physiological effects will follow...

I am sorry David, only partly true for the physiological . Ask those who have played with our genes for milleniums. Not that easy, it may take another millenium if we act now, to reverse it.

As for prison, we are not advocating this unless there is unlawfull stuff like huge funds embezzlement. But with no positon of power possible to these psychopaths, there would not be major funds embezzlement. Just a few crazy enough to kill would go to prison. The rest would lead a productive life, but not with power over others in any form.

lelmaleh
21st January 2014, 19:11
Still seems like sociopaths would need continual monitoring of some sort as, by nature they manipulate to gain power over, wherever they are. It would take some resources and vigilance to do this.

anonymous
21st January 2014, 19:15
my privacy standards have changed - 5/10/16 - apologies for the many edits of public comments

DNA
22nd January 2014, 14:15
Sociopaths are almost never in a position to make real decisions as far as running the world goes, they just make good front men as politicians.

You made a statement, as if it is fact.

In reality it is a feeling you are projecting into being a reality, for the rest of us.

I must strongly disagree that your statement is factual.

What we have here is enough circumstantial evidence, to show that the situation is as stated, that it is not just probable, but very very very very likely (small to non-existent margin of error) that the world is being run not by what appears to be apex predators, but people who are in effect 'retarded'. People with damaged brains and damaged minds, which are passed down through generation after generation. And that they mix with one another, they collude with one another, as that is who they identify with, same as anyone else. They work, associate, and travel in packs. They breed with one another, it was and is inevitable.

That is what the evidence of the world condition, in all the branches of politics, corporate, finance, military (religion is definitely not excluded) and so on..all the results say this, directly.

They are not strong willed apex predators, they are damaged goods. Retarded, in all possible directions and meanings of the factual sense of the word 'retarded'.

And they have to be removed from positions of power and influence, for the rest of humanity's sake.

Yesterday, if not sooner.


Sociopaths can be quite intelligent and as a rule along with not having empathy they are without the constraints of being socialized to the extent that most of us with empathy are socialized.

Though it was Hitler that led Nazi Germany into commiting the holocaust, the citizens that went right along with this practice were not sociopaths, they were properly brain washed with propaganda, patriotism and nationalism.


Now here is the weird thing.
Sociopaths are the least susceptable to this kind of brain washing.
As such many times sociopaths are your best bet in leading a group of people out of bondage against the propaganda of tyranny and oppression that is inherent in large population societies.

I doubt this will be popular, but it is my guess that Martin Luther King Jr. was a sociopath.
Look at the wonderfull good MLK did.
He exhibited all the tell tale traits of a sociopath; charisma, intelligence, a fearless public speaker, and according to tells of his infidelity a flagrent disregard for the rules.

It is my opinion that Socrates was a sociopath. One of the key reason Socrates was put to death was because of how strongly opinionated he was in his arguments against the prevailing religion and politics of his day.


It is also my contention that sociopaths are not a case of a being that is physically handicapped, I believe that sociopaths are specific "SOUL TYPES" and that the EKG readings that show physical characteristics are mirroring the Soul's characteristics.


I believe that young soul sociopaths are capable of some of the greatest harm in our world, but I also believe that old soul sociopaths are capable of some of the greatest good in our world.


I believe that what this thread asks "that sociopaths be identified and quarantined" has already been done.
This is why the prison population of the United States is the highest in the world.
The powers that be have insured there will be no revolt by locking up the people who would have been the most likely to fight what they are doing.

What you ask I'm afraid, has already been done.

Carmody
22nd January 2014, 14:57
And here's the thing.

You are also exactly wrong.

As for the population of the prisons being as large as it is, that is a complex matter that involves Freemasons, private corporations, political power, subversion of governments, subversion of legal systems, black ops financing, societal controls, propaganda, paranoia induction, casus belli (fake created reasons for creating prison populations), creation of divide in society to facilitate all of the above situations, via said situations, and so on.

It took many people a lot of work to expose the reasons for the size of the prison population in the USA. One major contributor is Joseph Farrell's conclusional books, which are an overview of the depth of the situation, which is based on the research work of others and his own research. Part of his books illustrate the depth of the matter and it's connectivity. Why such prison populations exist.

He has illustrated that the situation in the USA involves control of society and using it as a mule to be a labor and cash cow and a created division to keep society culled and cornered, at the same time it is bringing this money in.

Control, division, appearance of satisfying multiple factions of thinking, all while getting their way in multiple others. There is no simple 5 minute sound bite method of explaining all of this.

I read a bit recently that illustrated that TED talks may be nice, but in reality they are 5-10-15 minute sound bites of people making themselves feel 'clever' as they have not the depth to actually do anything. Which is a valid criticism of how they appear to be in their effectiveness, as measured over time.

So no, no 10 minute synopsis of what is going to happen here, is going to be valid enough to derail it.

The conclusion is that the prison populations exist at such high levels, in order to control society and finance the black ops required to get into using the project paperclip scientists that came from Germany in the second world war (about 7000 of them)(and their own original programs and scientific work).

To have drug laws that are draconian, so that they people can be put into prisons and money made that way, to control the population with the draconian polarized situation, and to make the money via the introduction of the drugs and controlling the creation points as well. Thus Colombia, Afghanistan, the golden triangle, and so on.

Control natural resources, control legal systems, control governments in various countries, control the precious metal production, control the drug trade at all levels, and so on. Even to control the finances and the financial systems, which is what happened when the US and other governments allowed their espionage groups to get into the drug and war systems. Their espionage groups became the financial arms of the countries. That the bankers have less control than you might understand at this time in your explorations of what is what and who is who.

It has to do with the creation of a system of dark government, to enslave humanity's efforts and energies, out of sight of the public eye and mind, so enough funds and energies could be found to enable black ops projects..to begin the process of copying and attempting to exceed ET technology.

In a nutshell, that's it. To enable and create a paranoid level of 'full spectrum dominance'. A breakaway civilization, based on finding it's own energy, by crushing and grinding humanity's less aware and purposely 'held in ignorance' population. To use the war and finance control schemes they have used for thousands of years, in concert, together, to create a high technology breakaway civilization. That's what it is all about. The whole damn thing.

That the bulk of humanity is turned into road paste and fuel for the fire of creating this 'full spectrum dominance' High technology breakaway civilization. The use of their usual methods, as that is what they are made of, is the sociopaths and the psychopaths..who are purposely as enabled and helped and connected as is possible, in order to get it done. A high technology breakaway civilization based on being almost wholly self-serving paranoid sociopaths.

I can't even begin to express the level of research that it would take to explain all of this, so that the average man can understand it. I'm not sure it can be done, which is why we are in the situation that we are in. Suffice it to say, we are dealing with complex systems of control, and dark espionage, that goes back, in effect, for thousands of years, and involve groups that have worked hand in hand for many centuries and also new associations and groups, that all of this is still evolving and changing, but based upon the same tyranny and insanity of control that it has for those thousands of years.

One of their favorite tools for controlling societies and groups is the utilization of sociopaths and psychopaths. Those are the foot soldiers of the control grid. Be they actual hired killers, or bankers and politicians, or at any level of this complex and highly evolved control grid.

We now have, finally....a clear and definite capacity to identify and corral the footsoldiers, the fixers and the enablers of the control grid of this matrix.

And in effect, do you want to try and derail it, by making specious distracting arguments about Socrates and MLK, and inaccurate and uninformed claims or arguments about the US prison system?

Atlas
22nd January 2014, 19:29
Where do we draw the line in a human being where we can call them a sociopath

When they are 10%...20%...30%...50%...80%..90 %....
Good point.
-----------

April 05, 2013 - by Rebecca Morelle
Scientists ‘Read Dreams’ Using Brain Scans (http://will.illinois.edu/news/story/scientists-read-dreams-using-brain-scans)

Professor Yukiyasu Kamitani, from the ATR Computational Neuroscience Laboratories, in Kyoto, said: "I had a strong belief that dream decoding should be possible at least for particular aspects of dreaming... I was not very surprised by the results, but excited."

DNA
22nd January 2014, 20:49
And here's the thing.

You are also exactly wrong.

Look, I"m just expressing an opinion. How can expressing an opinion be wrong? How can it be wrong to attempt to engage in dialogue to further understanding on a subject?

For the record, I think you are wrong, but I'm not going to be egotistical enough to state that as so, for who am I to make such proclamations? If you have an opinion that difers than state it, but opening up a line of communication like this is a bit infantile and opens things up to degenerating and silly polarized black and white thinking.



To have drug laws that are draconian, so that they people can be put into prisons and money made that way, to control the population with the draconian polarized situation, and to make the money via the introduction of the drugs and controlling the creation points as well. Thus Colombia, Afghanistan, the golden triangle, and so on.

Control natural resources, control legal systems, control governments in various countries, control the precious metal production, control the drug trade at all levels, and so on. Even to control the finances and the financial systems, which is what happened when the US and other governments allowed their espionage groups to get into the drug and war systems. Their espionage groups became the financial arms of the countries. That the bankers have less control than you might understand at this time in your explorations of what is what and who is who.

It has to do with the creation of a system of dark government, to enslave humanity's efforts and energies, out of sight of the public eye and mind, so enough funds and energies could be found to enable black ops projects..to begin the process of copying and attempting to exceed ET technology.

I agree with what you are stating here, but there is another level at work here in my opinion.

I believe that folks who are not "socialized" as I was stating earlier, and as such also do not have the built in fear of rebuke, fear of being chastized, fear of being punished are the people who would be most likely to do two things. 1. They are most likely to have a more difficult learning curve in so far as acting in society and as such are more likely than most to commit some type of crime in their early devolopment and as a young adult. 2. They are the most likely to lead any type of rebellion and or uprising if one were to start. What is the old saying "It only takes a spark to get the fire going", and "it takes 1% of the population to start a revolution and get the momentum going".

Think of those guys in the TV show "sons of Anarchy", you might not want those dudes baby sitting your kid, but I'm sure George Washington would have been cool with having them as his initial group of soldiers. It's not just a matter of who is brave enough to fight a war, it's who is brave enough to be the first individuals to stand up and fight a war.

This is the main reason the prison industrial complex has been created in my opinion. To imprison the one percent of the population that would have been brave enough to make the first stand, to lead the charge.

We could erase the word "sociopath" and use the phrase "warrior" caste.
It's funny, I absolutely abhore the practice of the "caste system" in India. But I will say this, although I do not believe in the Caste system as it is practiced in terms of socially implanting a heredital advantage for your children, I do believe in souls having a membership in the Caste system. And what I am trying to point out here are the warrior souls in our system. It is my theory that the powers that be are very aware of this REAL societal and soul caste system and are locking away the "warrior" souls so as to cement their control of the population.

In essence I do not think we disagree at all in so far as the prison system is concerned, it is in the individuals who are being incarcerated and their value to society that we appear to have our differences on.





And in effect, do you want to try and derail it, by making specious distracting arguments about Socrates and MLK, and inaccurate and uninformed claims or arguments about the US prison system?

Having some one differ on a point and be willing to engage in dialogue over a subject is not derailing your thread Carmody, it is actually breathing life into it. I think at times you can be a tad bit sensitive when someone differs in opinion.

You know, sometimes you come off as a bit of an intellectual elitest of whom no one is allowed to differ in opinion with you.

In the future, please try to keep your intellect focused on the topic and not on making personal attacks.
This isn't about who is right or wrong, this is about further understanding for everyone by exposing people to different opinions.

You are a smart dude, I think you can see the value in this.

Flash
22nd January 2014, 21:21
Still seems like sociopaths would need continual monitoring of some sort as, by nature they manipulate to gain power over, wherever they are. It would take some resources and vigilance to do this.

yes, i do think so, and a collective acceptance of the problem, and a collective consciousness about it. Lots of vigilance, but worth it.

-------------

David, what you are saying in your post previously seems to be that you are not ready to revise your beliefs system. Fine, up to you. My statements come however from a completely revised beliefs systems, it did start like yours.

Sorry David, I reread your post and I am revising mine, you ended up saying that both physiological and societal/belief changes with happen at the same time. I see it as a possibility.

However, i will still keep my first paragraph to you, just so that we see where I came from, years ago, with a belief that we can, alone, change our physiology. Yes, but outer help may be great.

Flash
22nd January 2014, 21:30
Hi DNA


I doubt this will be popular, but it is my guess that Martin Luther King Jr. was a sociopath.
Look at the wonderfull good MLK did.
He exhibited all the tell tale traits of a sociopath; charisma, intelligence, a fearless public speaker, and according to tells of his infidelity a flagrent disregard for the rules.


This, to me, seems to be a shallow analysis of what psychopathy is. You are mixing charisma and intelligence with sociopathy. We need charismatic, intelligent being that do not follow the rule to thread the path out. What we do not need is those without empathy, without guilt, constantly bullying.

And we all understand how strong can be a sex drive for any human being. Applied to leadership though, it could be an outstanding force.

I do not see "cheating" on one's wife as bad as you do in USA. He may just have been out of the "possession" ego trip, while enjoying the non "possession". I laughing loud while writing.

anonymous
22nd January 2014, 22:40
my privacy standards have changed - 5/10/16 - apologies for the many edits of public comments

anonymous
22nd January 2014, 22:46
my privacy standards have changed - 5/10/16 - apologies for the many edits of public comments

Flash
22nd January 2014, 23:54
Here is a good thinking experiment. Flash, if you were found to be a sociopath, by way of brain scan… what would you do or say?

i would fight with all my wit and spirit and.... to make sure I am not labelled and that I can keep the power I can get, all of it. I would make sure that I do not mind at all if I walk on anybody, as long as nobody sees whom I am and as long as I can continue to get my way.

This is what a psychopath will do.

I would also find trick to either screw the machine, pay the internist or nurses writing the report, or worst, invent a way to make people believe that it is those with empathy who should be rejected from society and not given any power.

Isn't it what is happening nowadays anyhow???

anonymous
23rd January 2014, 01:52
my privacy standards have changed - 5/10/16 - apologies for the many edits of public comments

Carmody
23rd January 2014, 02:19
This whole thread is about getting this subject and potential answer to the issues, out there... into the world. A method of ameliorating the problem situation we have evolved into being subjected to.

And if it is fought for very hard, it may just take hold a tiny bit. Enough to make a difference.

it isn't about killing or harming anyone. it's about the removal of low empathy people who literally do show the signs, in a '4 quadrant testing regimen'... of being actually mentally deficient. Clinically insane, but capable of hiding those deficiencies and working together, in groups.

Their being without parts of what we call normal brain function, to get those people out of working inside of control systems, or systems of power. Out of places that have potential for corruption and inhumanity to come into being, and to have that be problem for the rest of society and humanity.

Here, a plain and straightforward image that shows that this person is likely in need of these tests and will have a very high likelihood of failing this set of tests. This image has become difficult to find on the net, these days. Tony Blair's High School yearbook shot.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_AauCarFOO_Y/TIPzaKKx5mI/AAAAAAAABaQ/j3UBp3mdPe4/s1600/Blair-1986.jpg

Why is this so difficult for some to understand, how could it be difficult to understand that we are not talking about nasty people anymore , or problem people, those concepts are to fall by the wayside as this is what is really going on, here: a literal truth of reduced and missing brain function.

A literal observable, verifiable, testable, level of scientific proofing, of reduced and missing brain function.

This is known as mental retardation, and part of the legalities and ethics of the situation, is that those sort of people are not let into positions of power or potential to harm. That is the basis of the legal situation and the position of the legal system, across this entire planet.

We can now verify, in all venues and to all levels of satisfaction and proofing, that these people are in actuality, of mental disorder, in the physical sense, and thus psychological capacities are directly diminished ...and do not possess the powers of judgement or reason, to be able to be in a position of power. End of story.

MargueriteBee
23rd January 2014, 07:02
I disagree.


Just had a thought.

The prisons systems of the world, could move from imprisonment, to actual rehabilitation.

To brain-scan every entry, and then place them in designated areas, according to their wiring type. To separate the true sociopath, from the rest of the prison population.

The rest of the population will immediately settle down and then one can move toward actual and real rehabilitation of those who can be rehabilitated.

Right now, the mess is so bad, in most prisons and most countries, that the sociopaths, the true ones, are so bad, that they end up creating a permanent mess inside of those prisons.

With the brain-scanning and proper placement, the ability to reduce the prison population will be able to emerge from said mess. And that the true group who, by their wiring, cannot be rehabilitated, they can be properly contained. A sociopath can fool people, as that is part of their trick, to fit in, when they know they are different. They can't fool the brain-scan. YES, we can identify sociopathy in brain scans. Very much so.

This is is eminently doable and in many a country and case...poses no break in privacy and rights, as we are already dealing with people who are wards of the state.

Those prisoners who want to be in a safer population which is easier to work with and can be rehabilitated and every effort put into them....would VOLUNTEER for the brain scan process.

Which, incidentally, is probably a decently large percentage of the population of the given prison. Volunteers would be there, in spades, looking to get the hell out of that nightmare, for all the right reasons.

Cost? in the USA, the most expensive place in the world, for medical hardware and it's use? About $1100US, right now, per scan.

Which is an absolute pittance for the reward and change it brings.

Part of the aim of this, is to show that it will work.

The end result is to take those successes...and turn to testing for sociopathic wiring, to testing for that..in people in politics, power, finance and military, and so on.

Hell, I'd actually have it on my resume:

"Tested to be nil for sociopathic wiring, by accredited agency so and so". Another form of being bonded.

sdv
23rd January 2014, 08:41
Psychopathy:

Here's a test: http://www.arkancide.com/psychopathy.htm


A prototypical psychopath would receive a maximum score of 40, while someone with absolutely no psychopathic traits or tendencies would receive a score of zero. A score of 30 or above qualifies a person for a diagnosis of psychopathy. People with no criminal backgrounds normally score around 5. Many non-psychopathic criminal offenders score around 22.

Confessions of a Sociopath, an interesting insight into the mind of a sociopath: http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/confessions-sociopath

Interesting that MRI studies show a difference in the brain of a paedophile (emphasis added by me):


So far, three research groups have published structural MRI studies of pedophiles: my own group at CAMH in Canada (Cantor et al., 2008), and two other groups, both in Germany (Schiffer et al., 2007; Schiltz et al., 2007). The CAMH team compared large groups of pedophilic men with men who committed nonsexual offenses; we found that the pedophilic men had significantly less tissue in two wide-spread regions of the brain. These two regions (called the superior fronto-occipital fasciculus and the right arcuate fasciculus) are not at all what previous researchers had expected to find (including us). Instead of being in charge of any specific function of the brain (such as self-control or sexual response), these particular brain structures are made up of “cables” (or axons) that connect other brain regions. This suggests the possibility that sexual attraction to children versus adults is not caused by some difference in any one region of the brain, but in the way that multiple regions work together. Neuroscientists refer to this as a partial “disconnection syndrome.”

When comparing pedophilic and nonpedophilic men, one must remain careful not to confuse cause with effect. That is, one must consider carefully whether the brain differences we detected cause pedophilia or whether some aspect of being pedophilic caused the brain differences. Previous research findings suggests that it is more likely for the brain differences to be causing pedophilia than for the other way around: Although it is now known that certain brain structures respond to environmental stimulation, such as the motor cortex, there is no evidence that such stimulation causes any changes in the superior fronto-occipital fasciculus or right arcuate fasciculus (the brain regions in which pedophiles and nonpedophiles differ). Moreover, the brain regions we identified are extremely large, and no previous research has ever found changes in such large regions of the brain. As an analogy, physical exercise will generally stimulate one’s muscle tissue to grow, but one would not grow an extra arm; neurological changes occur only in a very specific manner
.
The second body of research suggesting that brain differences are not effects of pedophilia is that pedophilic men have up to three times of the odds of being left-handed (or being ambidextrous) than do non-pedophilic men (Bogaert, 2001; Cantor, Blanchard, Christensen, Dickey, Klassen, Beckstead, Blak, & Kuban, 2004; Cantor, Klassen, Dickey, Christensen, Kuban, Blak, Williams, & Blanchard, 2005). Handedness is determined by brain organization and is determined largely before birth (fetuses show a hand-preference for thumb-sucking that is observable on sonograms; Hepper, Shahidullah, & White, 1991; Hepper, Wells, & Lynch, 2005). This indicates that at least some important differences in brain organization existed in pedophilic individuals long before they engaged in any pedophilic behaviors. Thus, although it remains possible that environment influences interacted with the differences in the brain, the simpler interpretation of these findings is that some factor was present, early in development, that affected brain development in a way that caused the handedness differences, pedophilia, and the other brain-related characteristics that have been found in pedophiles (such as lower than average IQs; Cantor, Blanchard, Robichaud, & Christensen, 2005).

There are also important implications of what we did not find. We did not find any group differences in the parts of the brain that are known to relate to self-control or impulsivity. That is, we found no evidence to suggest that pedophilic men have a neurological reason to be less capable of controlling their behaviors than are men who commit nonsexual crimes. Although it is never possible to completely rule out the possibility that pedophiles suffer from an impulsivity problem, our project used very large samples (relative to most MRI research) and powerful statistical techniques. So, if pedophilic men do suffer from a neurological problem in self-control, it is likely to be either small or a type of problem that is invisible to conventional MRI.

Although we found the brain differences to occur in a large proportion of the brain, the magnitudes of the differences were statistically “moderate.” That is, the structural MRI differences were reliable enough for studying groups of pedophiles for research, but they were not reliable enough for the assessment of individuals for clinical purposes. It remains possible, however, that functional MRI could be used clinically to distinguish pedophilic from nonpedophilic men. http://individual.utoronto.ca/james_cantor/blog2.html

These MRI studies of psychopathy (sociopaths), paedophilia, et al are very interesting. I suppose what the purpose of this thread is to discuss what we should do with this information.

Personally, I support the ''draw a line in the sand'' principle, e.g. as a society, worldwide, we decide that we regard child rape (statutory rape) as unacceptable human behaviour, so if you do this you are no longer welcome to live among us and will spend the rest of your life in jail, separated from others (lots of people in jails are not psychopaths or paedophiles and are just serving punishment for being caught breaking a rule, which is often only a rule in that region, so once they have done their time, they will become part of wider society again). Same for first-degree murder.

The research indicates that lack of control is not the problem with paedophiles. They seem to react/respond in the same way that a man (with varying degrees of shyness/boldness, awkwardness/charm, success/failure) would do with a woman/man he found attractive, except they do it with children.

Apologies, as I do not want to take the discussion away from sociopaths (psychopathy), and I think the problem of how to use the MRI studies to protect society from the havoc these people wreak is a much more tricky one.

I do favour the idea that many people in prison are there because they are being punished for a transgression (which may not be considered a transgression in another region) and are therefore a part of normal society. Do they not deserve protection from the harm that sociopaths can cause?

Flash
23rd January 2014, 12:03
Lol marguerite Bee, I checked if you had other posts on the thread, because I thought yours might be an ongoing answer to previous comments and no, it is not.

i disagree is a very short answer, may we know why?

Your disagrement brings out what the whole may think or want at some point, so why not know the motives. Thanks.


I disagree.


Just had a thought.

The prisons systems of the world, could move from imprisonment, to actual rehabilitation.

To brain-scan every entry, and then place them in designated areas, according to their wiring type. To separate the true sociopath, from the rest of the prison population.

The rest of the population will immediately settle down and then one can move toward actual and real rehabilitation of those who can be rehabilitated.

Right now, the mess is so bad, in most prisons and most countries, that the sociopaths, the true ones, are so bad, that they end up creating a permanent mess inside of those prisons.

With the brain-scanning and proper placement, the ability to reduce the prison population will be able to emerge from said mess. And that the true group who, by their wiring, cannot be rehabilitated, they can be properly contained. A sociopath can fool people, as that is part of their trick, to fit in, when they know they are different. They can't fool the brain-scan. YES, we can identify sociopathy in brain scans. Very much so.

This is is eminently doable and in many a country and case...poses no break in privacy and rights, as we are already dealing with people who are wards of the state.

Those prisoners who want to be in a safer population which is easier to work with and can be rehabilitated and every effort put into them....would VOLUNTEER for the brain scan process.

Which, incidentally, is probably a decently large percentage of the population of the given prison. Volunteers would be there, in spades, looking to get the hell out of that nightmare, for all the right reasons.

Cost? in the USA, the most expensive place in the world, for medical hardware and it's use? About $1100US, right now, per scan.

Which is an absolute pittance for the reward and change it brings.

Part of the aim of this, is to show that it will work.

The end result is to take those successes...and turn to testing for sociopathic wiring, to testing for that..in people in politics, power, finance and military, and so on.

Hell, I'd actually have it on my resume:

"Tested to be nil for sociopathic wiring, by accredited agency so and so". Another form of being bonded.

anonymous
23rd January 2014, 12:16
my privacy standards have changed - 5/10/16 - apologies for the many edits of public comments

Flash
23rd January 2014, 12:40
You certainly do behave like a first class manipulator, right now. As being a psychopath, I have no idea who gave you the diagnosis, but if you believe you are, well, it is your call.

HOwever, as a first rate manipuator, there is no way I, or others here, will let you destroy this thread. So if you are a real psychopath, definitely, you have no place on this thread, neither maybe on Avalon.

I could pick every single manipalative technic you are using and dismantle it. I do not think it is Worth it however, you will end up hanging yourself by yourself.

The power you may want to use will be removed.

Ah yes: and when you insult people, at least study your prey to know whom you are lashing at. Insulting people does no drive you far on Avalon.



This whole thread is about getting this subject and potential answer to the issues, out there... into the world. A method of ameliorating the problem situation we have evolved into being subjected to.

And if it s fought for very hard, it may just take hold a tiny bit. Enough to make a difference.

it isn't about killing or harming anyone. it's about the removal of low empathy people who literally do show the signs, in a '4 quadrant testing regimen'... of being actually mentally deficient. Clinically insane, but capable of hiding those deficiencies and working together, in groups.

Their being without parts of what we call normal brain function, to get those people out of working inside of control systems, or systems of power. Out of places that have potential for corruption and inhumanity to come into being, and to have that be problem for the rest of society and humanity.

Here, a plain and straightforward image that shows that this person is likely in need of these tests and will have a very high likelihood of failing this set of tests. This image has become difficult to find on the net, these days. Tony Blair's High School yearbook shot.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_AauCarFOO_Y/TIPzaKKx5mI/AAAAAAAABaQ/j3UBp3mdPe4/s1600/Blair-1986.jpg

Why is this so difficult for some to understand, how could it be difficult to understand that we are not talking about nasty people anymore , or problem people, those concepts are to fall by the wayside as this is what is really going on, here: a literal truth of reduced and missing brain function.

A literal observable, verifiable, testable, level of scientific proofing, of reduced and missing brain function.

This is known as mental retardation, and part of the legalities and ethics of the situation, is that those sort of people are not let into positions of power or potential to harm. That is the basis of the legal situation and the position of the legal system, across this entire planet.

We can now verify, in all venues and to all levels of satisfaction and proofing, that these people are in actuality, of mental disorder, in the physical sense, and thus psychological capacities are directly diminished ...and do not possess the powers of judgement or reason, to be able to be in a position of power. End of story.

You are a smart guy, I respect and value any correspondence we have. That being said… I feel you are stepping outside your comfort zone, and need to stick to your day job. I don't believe you have a full understanding of how this whole sociopath brain thing works. It is much more complicated than a 4 quadrant test etc. This is the BRAIN we are talking about. The MOST complex supercomputer. It operates as a whole, not just as pieces. I can't articulate what I KNOW, so I am at a loss for any argument. I have a good feeling you may run circles around me for this, but I think you are way off, and possibly a sociopath YOURSELF! Bwahaha how is that for a accusation! Get a brain scan!

how do you like me now. lol I have to get out of here…

You have to remember, I am a sociopath, as considered by you all's standards, as described here. You are calling me mentally retarded in your post. First of all, **** you for that. Second of all, at least use an acceptable phrase. I have close friends and family that are impaired in several ways, including down syndrome. This phrase 'mentally retarded' is very rude. Learn some manners. This is a very personal attack. I didn't start this thread, but I am not asking for any special treatment either. I would not act in such a manner towards someone.

End of story huh… I am going to bite my tongue now.

anonymous
23rd January 2014, 12:46
my privacy standards have changed - 5/10/16 - apologies for the many edits of public comments

anonymous
23rd January 2014, 12:50
my privacy standards have changed - 5/10/16 - apologies for the many edits of public comments

ulli
23rd January 2014, 13:22
When WW2 was over historians analysed that the Germans, the Japanese and the Italians did it all.
Of course not every single one, but hey, collectively they allowed their psychopathic leaders to
do it.

So Carmody, being an analytical guy, figured out that something needs to be done now,
before that WW2 situation gets repeated on an even larger scale.

So since psychopaths have this ambitious nature to prevail over others at all cost,
using all sorts of means to make it to the top,
where they can exercise power without opposition,
he wants to save the world from a fate it does not deserve.
This does not necessarily make him sociopath.

He did not attack anyone personally,
but I do see that some people here CHOSE to take offence.

Like me, being German, could now get all huffed at anyone who ever said
that 'The Germans' caused WW2, yet I choose not to take it , as I can see a bigger picture, beyond personal,
beyond my little ego, and so I see no need to defend myself.

This is a choice which I consciously make, and which redeems me of my inherent psychopathy.
At least for the time being. (hehe...)

DNA
23rd January 2014, 13:26
You certainly do behave like a first class manipulator, right now. As being a psychopath, I have no idea who gave you the diagnosis, but if you believe you are, well, it is your call.

HOwever, as a first rate manipuator, there is no way I, or others here, will let you destroy this thread.

How is he destroying this thread? And who made you the Avalon police? Last I checked you had no moderator title.
I think he offers an interesting view and is engaging in worth while dialogue in doing so.
Since when did we all become so thin skinned we could not handle it if somebody disagreed with us?






So if you are a real psychopath, definitely, you have no place on this thread, neither maybe on Avalon.

Again, who are you to make this threat?
Flash, I think you are getting a little ahead of yourself. Last I checked this was Mr. Ryan's Forum, not yours.

And so what if the guy is taking the rhetoric used here a little personally.

This thread in it's entirety is a bit of a pointed attack on a specific population base.





Ah yes: and when you insult people, at least study your prey to know whom you are lashing at. Insulting people does no drive you far on Avalon.

I think you should listen to your own advice here.

DNA
23rd January 2014, 13:39
When WW2 was over historians analysed that the Germans, the Japanese and the Italians did it all.
Of course not every single one, but hey, collectively they allowed their psychopathic leaders to
do it.

So Carmody, being an analytical guy, figured out that something needs to be done now,
before that WW2 situation gets repeated on an even larger scale.

So since psychopaths have this ambitious nature to prevail over others at all cost,
using all sorts of means to make it to the top,
where they can exercise power without opposition,
he wants to save the world from a fate it does not deserve.
This does not necessarily make him sociopath.

He did not attack anyone personally,
but I do see that some people here CHOSE to take offence.

Like me, being German, could now get all huffed at anyone who ever said
that 'The Germans' caused WW2, yet I choose not to take it , as I can see a bigger picture, beyond personal,
beyond my little ego, and so I see no need to defend myself.

This is a choice which I consciously make, and which redeems me of my inherent psychopathy.
At least for the time being. (hehe...)

Look Ulli, I've always liked you. What's not to like. You are a rock solid Avalon Matriarch. That being said, you tend to show favor with your affections to those who frequent your "HERE AND NOW" thread.
And as much as I do, I really do like you, this tends to create a highschool like atmosphere where the kids at the cool table are constantly taking up for one another.
I call it like I see it and you are better than this.


Because being as intelligent as you obviously are, you have to acknowledge that the OP has not taken kindly to folks who have had a difference of opinion on this thread. And I'm sure if you looked with honesty and impartiality you would see that to be the case.

Or you could CHOOSE not to see this.

Flash
23rd January 2014, 13:45
We never called on your genetic, none ever called you mentally retarded, no personal attack Michael, YOU ARE THE ONE NAMING YOURSELF A PSYCHOPATH, NOT US. And from you own diagnosis on your own self, you accuse us of naming you out and pouring psychopatic labels on you.

Not our fault Michael, you started it, not us.

IF YOU LABEL YOURSELF AS PSYCHOPATH, AND INSULT US FOR NAMING WHAT A PSYCHOPATH IS, TELLING WE ARE INSULTING YOU, WE ARE NOT TO BLAME.

STOP LABELING YOURSELF A PSYCHOPATH IN THE FIRST PLACE, AND TAKING IT PERSONALLY.

Now, I understand you feel cornered, but it is your own doing.

You however demonstrate quite well what manipulative behavior is, no doubt on this.



You are right, I am 'misbehaving'.

You are wrong for ignoring the fact that he called me mentally retarded, and used that phrase in the first place.

You, and him personally attacked me. Whether you believe that part of my genetic selection was the form of my brain that has been interpreted by 'top' scientists thoroughly, I DON'T CARE.

You are right, maybe I don't have a place here. Time will tell.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Pick apart every tactic? So just focus on my behavior, not anyone else's? I took A LOT of **** from people here already, while biting my tongue. I won't be told I cannot change, and I will not be called mentally retarded. What part of this does not make sense? STEP BACK FROM THE SITUATION and really think.

One word, to emphasize my point of the line being crossed by personal attack. I replied with a personal attack. Yes

So I am destroying a thread, doing what was already done by YOU and Carmody? Whatever, I OBVIOUSLY DISAGREE! sorry I am not yelling, only emphasizing, with caps

And can we please all stop reposting Tony Blair's face already! LOL

Christine
23rd January 2014, 13:51
I am going to ask everyone involved to stop posting for a bit .. it seems we are risking, again, the division of us vs. them without means of finding resolution. Right action is when two opposing forces find a flow.

Please consider every word being written.

ulli
23rd January 2014, 13:54
When WW2 was over historians analysed that the Germans, the Japanese and the Italians did it all.
Of course not every single one, but hey, collectively they allowed their psychopathic leaders to
do it.

So Carmody, being an analytical guy, figured out that something needs to be done now,
before that WW2 situation gets repeated on an even larger scale.

So since psychopaths have this ambitious nature to prevail over others at all cost,
using all sorts of means to make it to the top,
where they can exercise power without opposition,
he wants to save the world from a fate it does not deserve.
This does not necessarily make him sociopath.

He did not attack anyone personally,
but I do see that some people here CHOSE to take offence.

Like me, being German, could now get all huffed at anyone who ever said
that 'The Germans' caused WW2, yet I choose not to take it , as I can see a bigger picture, beyond personal,
beyond my little ego, and so I see no need to defend myself.

This is a choice which I consciously make, and which redeems me of my inherent psychopathy.
At least for the time being. (hehe...)

Look Ulli, I've always liked you. What's not to like. You are a rock solid Avalon Matriarch. That being said, you tend to show favor with your affections to those who frequent your "HERE AND NOW" thread.
And as much as I do, I really do like you, this tends to create a highschool like atmosphere where the kids at the cool table are constantly taking up for one another.
I call it like I see it and you are better than this.


Because being as intelligent as you obviously are, you have to acknowledge that the OP has not taken kindly to folks who have had a difference of opinion on this thread. And I'm sure if you looked with honesty and impartiality you would see that to be the case.

Or you could CHOOSE not to see this.

It's not so much that I am biased....actually, it is the other way around.
The people who frequent the here and now thread have something in common,
to do with a vision which can actually reverse the trends that are going on worldwide...
and what we back up is not so much one another, although it would look like that to anyone who still doesn't see the big picture the way we see it.
I try to respect anyone and everyone.
And that includes sociopaths.

My take on what Carmody is doing here is not so much to go to war against ALL sociopaths,
but those who are in a position to control the entire globe.

ulli
23rd January 2014, 14:04
One more thing...forums are about ideas, more than individuals.
But there are many forum members who are just beginning to formulate their own ideas,
throwing out parental and society"s programs, in order to replace them with their own chosen programs.

Such a process works when accompanied by great insights, which are healing to an individual, and help them develop identity.
But during these transitional periods the self is in as precarious a state as the planet is now as a whole.
Just as individuals feel the need to protect their personal space, so the global elite are trying to protect the earth
(the way they see it), as there the perceived enemy is the uncontrolled overpopulation, or ET or whatever.

Its all the same thing, just at a different scale.

DNA
23rd January 2014, 14:28
Psychopathy:

Here's a test: http://www.arkancide.com/psychopathy.htm


A prototypical psychopath would receive a maximum score of 40, while someone with absolutely no psychopathic traits or tendencies would receive a score of zero. A score of 30 or above qualifies a person for a diagnosis of psychopathy. People with no criminal backgrounds normally score around 5. Many non-psychopathic criminal offenders score around 22.

Confessions of a Sociopath, an interesting insight into the mind of a sociopath: http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/confessions-sociopath

Interesting that MRI studies show a difference in the brain of a paedophile (emphasis added by me):


So far, three research groups have published structural MRI studies of pedophiles: my own group at CAMH in Canada (Cantor et al., 2008), and two other groups, both in Germany (Schiffer et al., 2007; Schiltz et al., 2007). The CAMH team compared large groups of pedophilic men with men who committed nonsexual offenses; we found that the pedophilic men had significantly less tissue in two wide-spread regions of the brain. These two regions (called the superior fronto-occipital fasciculus and the right arcuate fasciculus) are not at all what previous researchers had expected to find (including us). Instead of being in charge of any specific function of the brain (such as self-control or sexual response), these particular brain structures are made up of “cables” (or axons) that connect other brain regions. This suggests the possibility that sexual attraction to children versus adults is not caused by some difference in any one region of the brain, but in the way that multiple regions work together. Neuroscientists refer to this as a partial “disconnection syndrome.”

When comparing pedophilic and nonpedophilic men, one must remain careful not to confuse cause with effect. That is, one must consider carefully whether the brain differences we detected cause pedophilia or whether some aspect of being pedophilic caused the brain differences. Previous research findings suggests that it is more likely for the brain differences to be causing pedophilia than for the other way around: Although it is now known that certain brain structures respond to environmental stimulation, such as the motor cortex, there is no evidence that such stimulation causes any changes in the superior fronto-occipital fasciculus or right arcuate fasciculus (the brain regions in which pedophiles and nonpedophiles differ). Moreover, the brain regions we identified are extremely large, and no previous research has ever found changes in such large regions of the brain. As an analogy, physical exercise will generally stimulate one’s muscle tissue to grow, but one would not grow an extra arm; neurological changes occur only in a very specific manner
.
The second body of research suggesting that brain differences are not effects of pedophilia is that pedophilic men have up to three times of the odds of being left-handed (or being ambidextrous) than do non-pedophilic men (Bogaert, 2001; Cantor, Blanchard, Christensen, Dickey, Klassen, Beckstead, Blak, & Kuban, 2004; Cantor, Klassen, Dickey, Christensen, Kuban, Blak, Williams, & Blanchard, 2005). Handedness is determined by brain organization and is determined largely before birth (fetuses show a hand-preference for thumb-sucking that is observable on sonograms; Hepper, Shahidullah, & White, 1991; Hepper, Wells, & Lynch, 2005). This indicates that at least some important differences in brain organization existed in pedophilic individuals long before they engaged in any pedophilic behaviors. Thus, although it remains possible that environment influences interacted with the differences in the brain, the simpler interpretation of these findings is that some factor was present, early in development, that affected brain development in a way that caused the handedness differences, pedophilia, and the other brain-related characteristics that have been found in pedophiles (such as lower than average IQs; Cantor, Blanchard, Robichaud, & Christensen, 2005).

There are also important implications of what we did not find. We did not find any group differences in the parts of the brain that are known to relate to self-control or impulsivity. That is, we found no evidence to suggest that pedophilic men have a neurological reason to be less capable of controlling their behaviors than are men who commit nonsexual crimes. Although it is never possible to completely rule out the possibility that pedophiles suffer from an impulsivity problem, our project used very large samples (relative to most MRI research) and powerful statistical techniques. So, if pedophilic men do suffer from a neurological problem in self-control, it is likely to be either small or a type of problem that is invisible to conventional MRI.

Although we found the brain differences to occur in a large proportion of the brain, the magnitudes of the differences were statistically “moderate.” That is, the structural MRI differences were reliable enough for studying groups of pedophiles for research, but they were not reliable enough for the assessment of individuals for clinical purposes. It remains possible, however, that functional MRI could be used clinically to distinguish pedophilic from nonpedophilic men. http://individual.utoronto.ca/james_cantor/blog2.html

These MRI studies of psychopathy (sociopaths), paedophilia, et al are very interesting. I suppose what the purpose of this thread is to discuss what we should do with this information.

Personally, I support the ''draw a line in the sand'' principle, e.g. as a society, worldwide, we decide that we regard child rape (statutory rape) as unacceptable human behaviour, so if you do this you are no longer welcome to live among us and will spend the rest of your life in jail, separated from others (lots of people in jails are not psychopaths or paedophiles and are just serving punishment for being caught breaking a rule, which is often only a rule in that region, so once they have done their time, they will become part of wider society again). Same for first-degree murder.

The research indicates that lack of control is not the problem with paedophiles. They seem to react/respond in the same way that a man (with varying degrees of shyness/boldness, awkwardness/charm, success/failure) would do with a woman/man he found attractive, except they do it with children.

Apologies, as I do not want to take the discussion away from sociopaths (psychopathy), and I think the problem of how to use the MRI studies to protect society from the havoc these people wreak is a much more tricky one.

I do favour the idea that many people in prison are there because they are being punished for a transgression (which may not be considered a transgression in another region) and are therefore a part of normal society. Do they not deserve protection from the harm that sociopaths can cause?

I find your post here quite intriguing.
I am of the belief that the folks you speak of here have a dark entity working through them.
It is not a scientific belief, but it is still my belief.
Science has not been able, to my knowledge, view non-corporeal entities manipulating people, but I find the thought intriguing to no end that the effects of a dark entity's attachment may show up in the physical brain in terms of electrical discharges.

It's only a vague hypothesis, but what if an MRI could detect the physical changes that take place in a human brain due to a Non-Organic Energy Parasite?

This may lead to interesting findings. Some of which may be that people who are termed "sociopaths" may make a better host for said entities.

We may learn that it is not a person being a sociopath that is the problem, we may learn that it just turns out sociopaths make better hosts for dark entities.

And thus we would be led to the contents of this article here.

THE INTER-DIMENSIONAL ENTITIES BEHIND THE DARK AGENDA THAT IS TAKING OVER THE WORLD! (http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/12/the-inter-dimensional-entities-behind-the-dark-agenda-thats-taking-over-the-world-2857556.html?currentSplittedPage=0)

Agape
23rd January 2014, 14:53
I am not even stating my opinion really, just food for thought sort of statement.

See, if 'they' revise the prison system, specifically intake and classification (as pertaining to the 'sociopath brain') as we are discussing, then some people made an internal change as well. The people running the prison system are sociopaths, you can bet. lol.

I think you are very mistaken claiming you 'used' to have my belief system. You have only seen a very small part of my belief system, and it seems to me that you have misinterpreted it…

So, are you saying, you have 'evolved' past me spiritually etc? This is fine, just want to clarify what exactly you are saying.

I am a sociopath, if you 'test' me. So I cannot change? Should I be in prison? No, you are saying that my brain is still the same and may take millennia? Well, I still think I can do good, as a sociopath… you are not going to tell me I can't, and that my opinion has not 'evolved' because of this mindset.

Perhaps we misunderstand each other

my 'belief system' is constantly being revised, as I go along. Please do not say things like ' I am not ready to revise it ', I am always open to. ARE YOU?

All I was saying is that we can't lock up ALL the sociopaths in prison. This itself, WOULD BE WRONG. If you disagree with that, then fine =P




Hi Mike. Pardon my wording but you've put yourself on their plate here and ask them to help to sort you out , on forum.
I know personally that many people here do care about you and love you .. if you feel bad, stick with a friend , be honest , open in private , try to tackle reality problems and find solutions.

As Ulli remarked, the forum is not the safest, healthiest environment for sorting you, in front of about 1000 other people .
Many of us have personal experience with how wrong it may feel . Many more people who sign in to forums simply never come to fronts at the end
because this moral, emotional and rational barrier we all have and have to respect when being among the larger society .

We'd have to ask Carmody to change the title of this thread , though the thread was started in good will and carries meaning that was understood among some of us
but may sound equally confusing to the larger audience.

You're right there . Sociopathy does not equal criminal behaviour , firstly and secondly is quite difficult to define ,
and I believe that biological and social definitions of 'sociopathy' or 'psychopathy' would differ .

If you insist on being sociopath ;) simply because you differ from the rest of the collective and can't find way with them easily ,
it depends equally on you and the collective but it does not mean that you necessarily have 'pathological relationship' to the 'society' .

Pathological relationship ..

can be defined as anything anomalous and enormous, such as hatred, homophobia, racism, extreme nationalism , religious or even scientific fanaticism that ;blocks' your communication with certain parts or even whole of society ,

pathological relationship..

can look like extreme attachment to crowds, groups, adoration , forms of communication, behaviours , in another words it can look like 'love' without rational borders

it can also be defined as extreme self-centredness and identification with immature roles and archetypes of beings and their behaviours ..


There are many types of socio-pathies in every society till today , it's extremely hard to prevent them turning to drastic events , that's why this thread was started after all .



If you think you may need some personal assistance there are couple of good people to approach here , maybe - maybe not , don't give up trying but do not put your worthy self on plate here ,
since it only serves as 'tasty chunks' to predators and people who think they have immediate answers and would it solve it much easier than possible.



Peace :angel:

christian
23rd January 2014, 15:07
First of all, people should be judged by their deeds. Pre-crime punishment sounds rather suppressive to me. However, if we have the means to learn more about ourselves and others, it is certainly a good idea to do so, to gather all knowledge. Here's how I think it could work, considering the bigger picture of where I see humanity headed towards, if there's going to be a genuinely positive evolution:

In a free society, people are first of all self-responsible, there's no overly powerful position or institution anyways, so there's little room for the abuse of institutional power. Still, there would of course be some kind of organizational effort that requires certain groups or individuals to coordinate that. How about everybody who wants to be in any way part of this making brain scans voluntarily, transparently, and publicly, for all to see? Then, the people can still decide whether or not they consider a particular person appropriate for this or that, considering the brain scan results but also everything else.

If we simply separate people according to the results of the brain scans—which would only be done with today's state of the art technology, mind that—I feel certain that we would be painting with a too broad brush. I mean, such a technology may well be helpful, but it is certainly not the pinnacle of discernment and empowerment.

While having a conversation about how to facilitate a more harmonic coexistence, don't forget to also read, write, think, and act between the lines. Any revolution or shift that is brought about along with words and thoughts of contempt or preemptive violent action (that is not in self-defense against an actual aggression) must fail eventually. Even the best intentions won't ensure success if one doesn't tread carefully.

Carmody
23rd January 2014, 15:43
I thank everyone for their contributions so far. This is the sort of scrutiny that such ideas must be held up to. If it can survive such waters. And other concerns. Such as it may be a terrific idea, but for some, to understand that there are groups that exist...who would desire to kill the idea and most specifically it's spread, in the crib, as soon as possible.

since this is a written forum, the personal interactive are missing and much of what we try to get across, will be lost.

To remind folks, possibly, of a study done long before about written communications. That in such communications, the best we can average, is about 10% of the intent and meaning that is in our minds and body.

This, as corollary, or looked at from the other most paranoid and simplistic side of it, means that implantation can be initiated in written communication ....as 90% of the internal intent is missing.

To not place or build intent into what I'm saying with the fill that comes in from one's own mind... and for me to not do the same. and so on.

I'm principally talking about a toolset that becomes a norm of sorts that is a greater gauntlet and set of hoops that those who try to manipulate this planet for their own desires, that those beings will have to publicly and openly pass some difficult tests. That those tests will, for a time, damage their capacity to do ill to humanity. Like anything else, those hoops and gauntlets will eventually be circumvented, in one way or another.

Humanity must rise to the complexity of the situation that is in front of it, or die on the vine in what appears to be a trend into a three level caste system of genetics and awareness.

To prevent the enablers and fixers of a very horrific system of repression. One that is moving toward a serf class of permanent genetic disabling and mechanical repetition and death into infinity, basically permanence in being an organic machine...to prevent that mechanism's continuance.... this enabler and fixer class of beings needs to be shut down.

For humanity as a whole, to gain an understanding in their undercurrent of awareness, that cranial wiring is on the list of issues that is causal and related to the world's issues. It is known in scientific circles, that it is coming into being as an understanding in that venue, but to become a norm in humanity's local individual and overall context of how life is lived and flows.

To move further from the animal/body response and more into a holistic understanding of the complexity of self and how this plays out in the greater whole, and what challenges lie in this new world of incredible technological feats and heights. We all here, seem to understand the point that Monsanto is planned and enacted genetic damage and death, from a dark and nefarious inner circle of intentional death and downturn for the bulk of humanity. Part of a driven machine that is hidden in layers, so that the public is not aware.

We are moving into the capacity for the individual on the street, even the kid with a computer connection in the mid Sahara, to enable themselves with mechanical means of infinite energy. Which also raises serious problems. We are on a very serious and potent threshold. One that has two sides, one of maximum benefit and one of maximum danger and problems/issues to overcome. We can move in a few different directions here, and we have one that seems to be in the process of being imposed upon us. It appears that it will be imposed and is well into being imposed...unless we move into awareness and connection to all in responsible ways.


It really is that simple. This is a viable path of getting to a better point, for all involved - except for the mindset and pressure from an apparently sociopathic few and those who enable and fix for that machine.

Do you have a better initiation point? Something that will survive the rigors of an environment that is designed to kill such initiatives off? I've said all of this before, in this thread. At this point in time and flow, I'm not sure I see anything more viable.

To slowly bleed the pressure and destruction machine out of the systems at the same time humanity rises into awareness, within the context of the environment that exists right now.

Good luck in coming up with a better one.

christian
23rd January 2014, 16:21
To prevent the enablers and fixers of a very horrific system of repression. One that is moving toward a serf class of permanent genetic disabling and mechanical repetition and death into infinity, basically permanence in being an organic machine...to prevent that mechanism's continuance.... this enabler and fixer class of beings needs to be shut down.

It really is that simple. This is a viable path of getting there.

Do you have a better initiation point? something that will survive the rigors of an environment that is designed to kill such initiatives off?


In my opinion, it's the old thing of empowering oneself vs. crippling or controlling others, lifting oneself up vs. putting others down in order to assert one's natural rights. If humanity is empowered, the fixers stand no chance in the game. If humanity is not empowered, the control over the fixers will not be efficient and may even backfire because of manipulations and so on.

I see how both aspects, focusing on self-empowerment and focusing on being watchful of those with (potential) malintent, go hand in hand to some degree. I think it's wise to be aware of sociopaths and remain vigilant, always, but the main focus in my life is certainly on empowering myself and others, thereby I automatically become better able to defend myself against predators. When I know myself and stand in my full power, I get in a position to act. If my focus is more on what others can or might do, I'm in a more reactive stance. Of course, in reality it's a mixture of these two archetypal scenarios, but I think it's important to be aware of where one tends towards and to find a good balance there.

anonymous
23rd January 2014, 18:02
my privacy standards have changed - 5/10/16 - apologies for the many edits of public comments

Mad Hatter
23rd January 2014, 18:29
So far, IMNSHO, the smartest suggestion I've seen is that we instigate the use of currently available tech post haste using the 'if you want the job you voluntarily submit to the testing' approach. How about in private before filling in an application, along the lines of an aptitude test. This would allow for those that discover they do not qualify sans being publicly branded thus allowing them the opportunity to consider other ways in which they might choose to usefully contribute.

Given Carmody's quip about the suggested process eventually being by-passed it seems to me we might also want to be planning ahead for that eventuality as well. I found this an interesting read and maybe a pointer to where a more permanent fix / solution should be targeted.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?67637-Morphic-fields-and-the-impliate-order&p=787470&viewfull=1#post787470

IIRC recent research is indicating that conscious intent plays a large part in healing all the way down to the DNA level, so the argument that it is not rectifiable may well shortly prove moot.

tuppence worth

sdv
23rd January 2014, 19:44
Psychopathy:

Here's a test: http://www.arkancide.com/psychopathy.htm


A prototypical psychopath would receive a maximum score of 40, while someone with absolutely no psychopathic traits or tendencies would receive a score of zero. A score of 30 or above qualifies a person for a diagnosis of psychopathy. People with no criminal backgrounds normally score around 5. Many non-psychopathic criminal offenders score around 22.

Confessions of a Sociopath, an interesting insight into the mind of a sociopath: http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/confessions-sociopath

Interesting that MRI studies show a difference in the brain of a paedophile (emphasis added by me):


So far, three research groups have published structural MRI studies of pedophiles: my own group at CAMH in Canada (Cantor et al., 2008), and two other groups, both in Germany (Schiffer et al., 2007; Schiltz et al., 2007). The CAMH team compared large groups of pedophilic men with men who committed nonsexual offenses; we found that the pedophilic men had significantly less tissue in two wide-spread regions of the brain. These two regions (called the superior fronto-occipital fasciculus and the right arcuate fasciculus) are not at all what previous researchers had expected to find (including us). Instead of being in charge of any specific function of the brain (such as self-control or sexual response), these particular brain structures are made up of “cables” (or axons) that connect other brain regions. This suggests the possibility that sexual attraction to children versus adults is not caused by some difference in any one region of the brain, but in the way that multiple regions work together. Neuroscientists refer to this as a partial “disconnection syndrome.”

When comparing pedophilic and nonpedophilic men, one must remain careful not to confuse cause with effect. That is, one must consider carefully whether the brain differences we detected cause pedophilia or whether some aspect of being pedophilic caused the brain differences. Previous research findings suggests that it is more likely for the brain differences to be causing pedophilia than for the other way around: Although it is now known that certain brain structures respond to environmental stimulation, such as the motor cortex, there is no evidence that such stimulation causes any changes in the superior fronto-occipital fasciculus or right arcuate fasciculus (the brain regions in which pedophiles and nonpedophiles differ). Moreover, the brain regions we identified are extremely large, and no previous research has ever found changes in such large regions of the brain. As an analogy, physical exercise will generally stimulate one’s muscle tissue to grow, but one would not grow an extra arm; neurological changes occur only in a very specific manner
.
The second body of research suggesting that brain differences are not effects of pedophilia is that pedophilic men have up to three times of the odds of being left-handed (or being ambidextrous) than do non-pedophilic men (Bogaert, 2001; Cantor, Blanchard, Christensen, Dickey, Klassen, Beckstead, Blak, & Kuban, 2004; Cantor, Klassen, Dickey, Christensen, Kuban, Blak, Williams, & Blanchard, 2005). Handedness is determined by brain organization and is determined largely before birth (fetuses show a hand-preference for thumb-sucking that is observable on sonograms; Hepper, Shahidullah, & White, 1991; Hepper, Wells, & Lynch, 2005). This indicates that at least some important differences in brain organization existed in pedophilic individuals long before they engaged in any pedophilic behaviors. Thus, although it remains possible that environment influences interacted with the differences in the brain, the simpler interpretation of these findings is that some factor was present, early in development, that affected brain development in a way that caused the handedness differences, pedophilia, and the other brain-related characteristics that have been found in pedophiles (such as lower than average IQs; Cantor, Blanchard, Robichaud, & Christensen, 2005).

There are also important implications of what we did not find. We did not find any group differences in the parts of the brain that are known to relate to self-control or impulsivity. That is, we found no evidence to suggest that pedophilic men have a neurological reason to be less capable of controlling their behaviors than are men who commit nonsexual crimes. Although it is never possible to completely rule out the possibility that pedophiles suffer from an impulsivity problem, our project used very large samples (relative to most MRI research) and powerful statistical techniques. So, if pedophilic men do suffer from a neurological problem in self-control, it is likely to be either small or a type of problem that is invisible to conventional MRI.

Although we found the brain differences to occur in a large proportion of the brain, the magnitudes of the differences were statistically “moderate.” That is, the structural MRI differences were reliable enough for studying groups of pedophiles for research, but they were not reliable enough for the assessment of individuals for clinical purposes. It remains possible, however, that functional MRI could be used clinically to distinguish pedophilic from nonpedophilic men. http://individual.utoronto.ca/james_cantor/blog2.html

These MRI studies of psychopathy (sociopaths), paedophilia, et al are very interesting. I suppose what the purpose of this thread is to discuss what we should do with this information.

Personally, I support the ''draw a line in the sand'' principle, e.g. as a society, worldwide, we decide that we regard child rape (statutory rape) as unacceptable human behaviour, so if you do this you are no longer welcome to live among us and will spend the rest of your life in jail, separated from others (lots of people in jails are not psychopaths or paedophiles and are just serving punishment for being caught breaking a rule, which is often only a rule in that region, so once they have done their time, they will become part of wider society again). Same for first-degree murder.

The research indicates that lack of control is not the problem with paedophiles. They seem to react/respond in the same way that a man (with varying degrees of shyness/boldness, awkwardness/charm, success/failure) would do with a woman/man he found attractive, except they do it with children.

Apologies, as I do not want to take the discussion away from sociopaths (psychopathy), and I think the problem of how to use the MRI studies to protect society from the havoc these people wreak is a much more tricky one.

I do favour the idea that many people in prison are there because they are being punished for a transgression (which may not be considered a transgression in another region) and are therefore a part of normal society. Do they not deserve protection from the harm that sociopaths can cause?

I find your post here quite intriguing.
I am of the belief that the folks you speak of here have a dark entity working through them.
It is not a scientific belief, but it is still my belief.
Science has not been able, to my knowledge, view non-corporeal entities manipulating people, but I find the thought intriguing to no end that the effects of a dark entity's attachment may show up in the physical brain in terms of electrical discharges.

It's only a vague hypothesis, but what if an MRI could detect the physical changes that take place in a human brain due to a Non-Organic Energy Parasite?

This may lead to interesting findings. Some of which may be that people who are termed "sociopaths" may make a better host for said entities.

We may learn that it is not a person being a sociopath that is the problem, we may learn that it just turns out sociopaths make better hosts for dark entities.

And thus we would be led to the contents of this article here.

THE INTER-DIMENSIONAL ENTITIES BEHIND THE DARK AGENDA THAT IS TAKING OVER THE WORLD! (http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/12/the-inter-dimensional-entities-behind-the-dark-agenda-thats-taking-over-the-world-2857556.html?currentSplittedPage=0)

This is one of the ideas I have contemplated in trying to understand what I classify as evil. Much evidence has been rpesented on Avalon to support the idea of corrupting outside influences.

However, I do not, and will never, support everyone being tested and categorised.

I simply think that we should be clear about what human behaviour we consider acceptable and what we consider not acceptable, with universal consensus. Those who cross the line are no longer welcome to live among us in this lifetime. It is then up to the individual to choose to practice impulse control, and as a society we can offer help and support.

We should not condemn and categorise people according to their thoughts and feelings, and what we have decided is evidence of their potential, but look at how people act and decide (we need world-wide consensus on this) what we categorise as acceptable and what is not acceptable.

We manifest what we choose, and as long as we choose to accept and forgive and tolerate murder, paedophilia and the harm that sociopaths do, we will have them living among us. (I live in a country where a man can rape a six-month-old baby and be sentenced to, maybe 11 years' in jail as punishment, and then be given parole after serving half that sentence. I have said it before, but the rhetoric is, from a female judge, 'he didn't really hurt her down there and he said he was sorry and did not waste the court's time by denying what he did', and from our Constitutional chief, 'I am giving a reduced sentence because he was nice to her and gave her sweeties', and from commentators on news blogs, 'rape of babies and children has reached an unacceptable level', as if there is an acceptable level, and from family members of perpetrators, 'I don't want him to suffer in prison and do not want to lose a provider so please have mercy and do not give him a jail sentence', even when the victim was the woman's child.)

Will, intent, choice, and then manifestation, is the essence for me, and society as a whole tolerates sociopaths. As collective humanity, the majority (perhaps not here on Avalon) of us do not draw the line in the sand in choosing to refuse to live with those who cross that line.

We should not be judged by our thoughts and feelings and scientifically evaluated potential, but should be treated according to our actions ... and it is up to humanity (across-the-board majority) to decide and implement what is acceptable and what is not.

We will all be loved and accepted and supported and helped unconditionally in our spiritual home, but while we are on this Earth and living as a human, we surely can agree on and implement some basic rules? No, we can't because drones still randomly kill people, babies are still raped and sacrificed in magical rituals (this is real and does happen folks, and is not just a weird conspiracy theory about the Illuminati - it is widespread in Africa), and a few people amass huge wealth (far more than they and their families could ever use) while millions suffer without having basic needs for survival, et al.

Sociopaths wreak their havoc because we (the majority of humanity) choose to accept their acts and forgive or ignore them, through ignorance, a desire for self-enrichment by aligning ourselves with them, or a misunderstanding of how spirit interacts with humanity (spirits inhabit human bodies on this Earth, but Earth is not the eternal home of spirits, so if those human bodies have alien DNA or not, et al, is just a distraction). We have forgotten that as spirits we have will and intent and the ability to manifest, and thus are in control of the human bodies we inhabit (not all live with this delusion, because I suspect that there are many advanced/mature spirits living in human bodies).

So, sociopaths are free to wreak havoc because the majority of humankind lets them ... and I do not support the idea that we should be evaluated and categorised, but say that we should be judged according to our actions and what the majority of humankind decide is wrong or right acts.

Flash
24th January 2014, 17:43
I put that video resume in another thread but I thought it had its place here too, since money and bankers are running the world.

The Brain of a banker

The brain of a banker

Describing the brain of a banker : design an enfironment of short termers only, everyone think of himself only. After 2008 nobody went to jail, so it it sht rule itself.

A commission on standard of banking, wondering if the banking sector is truly an asset, because of the size of the banks and the leverage, may look like assets but are hydrogen balloons hanging over the society.

Questionnaires were sent to bankers. One banker’s wife reading the questionnaires suddenly understood what her husband was doing, having lived with him for 20 years and never having been told what was happening behind banks glass buildings.

You have easily 10 papers on gender studies in Gaza but when you want to know how hedge manager work you will find only abstract writings on how a university degree banker should be according to the economic theories. Basically nothing studies on the ground even if they are sharing the decisions on our lives.

« 2 days within my new career, I realized tha I had a cash cow that was crying out to be milk by caughky risk taking banker like myself. I just needed to understand where the rule could be broken and sit back while my bank account was growing exponentially« Geraint Anderson

He worked 12 years in the city He goes on saying « My bank hectic trading fortune was based on the fact that some big swinging dicks old brash confident matrix had decided in their crib that defeat was not an option. Investment banks attract and reward hyper competitive gamblers whose arrogance is only rivaled by their ruthlessness » Geraing Anderson

Terry Durhan, math degree from MIT, 10 years on trading floor. « You become institutionalized and educated to be part of that culture, …. JP Morgan, in the team there were very smart people and people risk aware, not risk averse, but …. Risk managers not traders, a playfull environment, 1 million was a buck so it is a 50 buck trade….100 bucks trade , a billion was a yard, .. not real terms, … it is like monopoly money. I remember thinking this is dissasociated from reality, … it is just fun »

« Banker operated in a never never wold beyond any regulation, it is a nice place to be. »

The researcher : this is a terrible world, as long as we are angry at them we are reinforcing the ides of alledged jealousy needed for their self image. When Lloyd Blankfein says « we do God’s work », the arrogance is just oozing. This arrogance that says everyone want to be me.

I see people under stress, a mix, some cold and calculated, but the average traders, you have some some cold ones, … but others are boys and girls who have been chasing societies’ promises.

Psychologist working in the city as a coach to managers, Peter Sioen (from me : not a good name to trust the truth, lol peter sion lol). All rest on neurotransmitters and hormones, and chemicals in the brain. We have studied how greed works, triggering certain hormones that once tasted, will make the being even greedier than they originally were.

The proportion of psychopaths in the top managers in the financial sector, is as high and share the same psychopatic traits as psychopaths in jail (based on questionnaires).

But to say we really know what is going on in their heads based on photographs, I would say that the face is the last place to look for clues. If you say a 22 years old they are the best thing on the planet and you stuff their hands with cash, of course they will become arrogant. Their testosterone levels are the highers, that is the culture right now. The world in the hand of 25 years old.

John Coates, senior research fellow in neurosciences and finance, University of Cambridge, , « I too, when i was making above average profits, with exceptional bonus, I came to consider myself as a super heroe ». He is a Canadian who traded for Goldman Sach and run a trading desk for Deutche Bank.

You think you can do anything. You do not need as much sleep, become slightly delusional, really caughky, and you take too much risk, … so convinced that anything you do is going to be right, taht you end up putting on trade which ever worsening trades and you blow up.

This process FEELS narcotics. It does not feel like a cognitive process, he does not feel like greed, it feels narcotic, with a process of power. This narcotic is an important piece of scientific data, it is a molecule.

The main researcher compares it with pedophilies who, as soon as they need to look for the next victim or their next fix, their brain take over and something happens whre they become smarter and more cunning than they really are. When i look at criminals or psychopaths in the business world, it is a thing of nature, rather than nurture, specially banks played a game wehre they took in certain psychopathic characters to bring in bigger profits.

Geraing Anderson : some of the people I was wroking with were actual living, breathing psychopaths (not only joking about it but real ones). 3% of men exhibit the characteristics that makes them real psychopaths. Manipulative, charming, remorseless, arrogant, and lacking any conscience, single mind risk takers with a ruthless will to succeed, unable to empathise with others and are rules brakers,

They are not team players and are expert at office politics, have deviant lifestyles and only superficial relationships. Wether the city attracks psychos or simply brings out the worst, i can say from my experience that the city all pervasive hyper competitive, maximize your bonuses at any cost mentality, demands that we, borderline psychos, forget our more gentle human qualitites as we ruthlessly strive to beat our colleagues.

The main researcher says that although the city may not be run by psychopaths, but he says that pscychopaths or those acting mercilessly are tolerated and rewarded and celebrated when bringing lots of money.

The sophistication of the banking product is so difficult to understand, that if you did, the bank would probably hire you.

I am up to 20 minutes in the video, you can watch the rest.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?67720-The-Bankers-Brain-quite-interesting

OnyxKnight
25th January 2014, 16:17
have to remember, I am a sociopath, as considered by you all's standards, as described here.

I'm lately tuning in, so any previous 'back and forth's are unknown to me. But without it I can safely reply to this - A real sociopath will never consider himself a sociopath. No matter what revelation and embrace he makes about the nature of himself, this part is never fully embraced. Same for other types of psychopaths.

Carmody didn't insult you because you are not a sociopath. I do agree that his other remarks for the group of people he talked about were out of place and made without proper thought process given to them.

Milneman
25th January 2014, 23:19
I'm behind Onyx for a reason. He's running defensive line for me, just doesn't realize it. Thanks buddeh . . . :O)

This is an ethical issue.

This isn't necessarily my opinion, but my thought process. Wander with me.

My first impulse was to say something like:

"Instead of dealing with people who are incarcerated, would it not make more sense to institute a solution based on prevention?"

Except that wouldn't work. Clearly this is a medical condition, like diabetes or heart disease. Do we discriminate against diabetics when they are required to take insulin? Newp. Crestor for heart patients? Newp. If we discriminated based on treatment of a disease, every wheelchair would be a pink triangle. Likewise, as a diabetic would I feel discriminated against because I had to test my blood sugar? I might be mad at the situation, but I couldn't claim discrimination because of my condition unless others put me into a clearly oppressive situation. Like locking me in a room full of chocolate. (Uhm...if anyone would like to do this for me, I'm not actually diabetic...just sayin...)

Which isn't to say that some people do stigmatise people with disabilities. But society has made accommodations for people with disabilities. Sidewalks have ramps, we make it easier for people with disabilities, especially in Canada. If they require special housing needs, special vehicles, etc, those things are made available to them through a process.

The difference is that there are degrees in which an individual's disability places financial and emotional strains on society.

We've agreed that people with mental illness are to be treated with dignity and given the help they require. In Canada, if I feel suicidal, all I have to do is walk into an emergency ward and say I want to kill myself and I'm immediately admitted to the psychiatric wing. There's a treatment process. It's not perfect, in fact it's so far from perfect it's crazy itself. But because there are so many individuals in the system that require the treatment, the system has to compensate. So a doctor will see a patient for 10 minutes at admitting, and 5 minutes during a 30 day stay to evaluate the drugs that have been administered. In my book? Fail. But fail because of not one specific reason.

So sociopath ends up doing something illegal and enters the judicial system. Right now the model is based on "rehabilitation" but works I suspect in the same model as the ER-psyche ward treatment. It barely scratches the surface.

So here's what I come up with.

Carmody, I agree with you in principle. My method, however, is going to differ slightly. Screening is necessary from a medical perspective. This is a disease that requires treatment. A compassionate society demands that individuals that suffer an ailment have a right to treatment, respect, and dignity regardless of their ailment. But if on the other hand we develop methods of crime prevention for those who are not in this category (psychotic/sociopathic), does it not follow the jails will be not as full, and those who are in them will in fact by the nature of their condition not be responding to the methods of a preventative system?

Or another example: the individual who suffers from manic-depressive syndrome. This is a multi-million dollar executive near where I live who was able to use his manic/depressive stages constructively to end up creating multiple successful businesses, employ several hundred people all over the province, in fact several provinces, thus creating a net gain for people over all even while suffering (and I use that word as a descriptor of having a condition only) from bipolar disorder. If, for example, a psychopath can hold a position of power that provides net gain for the society they lead....this is hypothesis only...and does not create circumstances of unnecessary suffering, given they may be the most qualified individual to hold that position would we be foolish to give that position to a lesser qualified individual who was not psychotic? (yeah, re-read that sentence and realize how insane it does sound from a certain point of view lol)

The argument is going to be that a psychotic/sociopathic individual won't be able to do this. And that very well may be true. Remember back in the old days, not so long ago, when any major change in government required a plebiscite? You got to vote on tax increase, remember that?

I'm wondering if the psychotics are in power, of if they are the people who vote and walk away, saying..."I elected you to take care of it, take care of it."

Am I psychotic for using someone for my own benefit if they allow me to use them?

Carmody, your basic premise holds provided that people adopt a system of ethics that demands for the greatest good emotional involvement has to take a back burner. I haven't ranted on the poison that is the politically correct movement yet. I may not. But I think this is symptomatic of the situation we're in.

Try this one on for size guys. When you commit a crime, you enter into a contractual agreement with the law. If you get caught, you will be entered into a process that will determine your guilt or innocence, and if found guilty, will have to give up certain rights you had as a citizen who is a non-criminal. In other words, if scanning this way begins in prisons, there's your in. How easy, however, it would be given the advances in technology to just scan the brains of every person entering into the United States. I mean, you have to give your finger prints now already. They put a bar code into your passport, scan it, all the information comes up on the screen. Pass or fail, just like with your criminal record now.

It's a more effective means of proceeding.

However....I am one of the old guard that longs for a simpler time when you could leave your door unlocked and trust your neighbours to watch your back, or walk from Saskatchewan to North Dakota and just "wave at the border guard". That way of life is dying slowly I'm afraid, except in the hearts of a few staunch stewards that refuse to let go of the idea of dignity, common sense, and chivalry. Evolve or fade.

Milneman
26th January 2014, 00:02
have to remember, I am a sociopath, as considered by you all's standards, as described here.

I'm lately tuning in, so any previous 'back and forth's are unknown to me. But without it I can safely reply to this - A real sociopath will never consider himself a sociopath. No matter what revelation and embrace he makes about the nature of himself, this part is never fully embraced. Same for other types of psychopaths.

Carmody didn't insult you because you are not a sociopath. I do agree that his other remarks for the group of people he talked about were out of place and made without proper thought process given to them.

i said i would not reply in that thread, but i am a liar and imperfect, what do you want =P haha.

my reply is that when a sociopath is presented with the scientific data of his own brain, what choice does he have but to acknowledge this 'fact', because that would be a slippery slope to being useless to anyone. even yourself. which is most important to a sociopath

if i am a sociopath, people are lucky i want to do the right thing for me, and that i relate me to them. haha. convinced yet? lol

Same applies to an alcoholic. From that point of view, one would be accepting the limitations of one's condition and accepting that as part of their human experience....which would then follow if I was diabetic, I couldn't eat chocolate without consequences. If I was a sociopath, I would recognize that certain things will affect me in the same way chocolate affects a diabetic, and have to act accordingly.

Doesn't this just smack of common sense?

Can we scan the brain for that next??? :D

OnyxKnight
26th January 2014, 00:07
i said i would not reply in that thread, but i am a liar and imperfect, what do you want =P haha.

my reply is that when a sociopath is presented with the scientific data of his own brain, what choice does he have but to acknowledge this 'fact', because that would be a slippery slope to being useless to anyone. even yourself. which is most important to a sociopath

if i am a sociopath, people are lucky i want to do the right thing for me, and that i relate me to them. haha. convinced yet? lol

I didn't say that in order to somehow point out that I'm not convinced or that I need more convincing. That was not my intention. I was just making a statement, factual, about people who do truly fit in that group.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe you are a sociopath. Details like non-acceptance probably don't weigh much on the long run. One typical indication that could affect behavior is an anomaly in the frontal cortex of the brain, an area associated with empathy and the ability to control yourself. This is why many murders committed by such people paints them as lacking empathy and compassion, and often the murders show an act of overkill. Like 46 stab wounds or 28 gunshot wounds when 1 to 2 of each would have been enough to be fatal. Often enough they don't even know they continued their actions more than #5 or 6.

The good news, so to speak, is that this has been 'recently' shown that could be genetic. So in the advent of genetic engineering, and designer babies in near future, this gene can be shut down entirely, instead of letting people grow up to potentially become a danger to the rest of society. Many carry this gene but never had a "trigger" that would spark the dark persona to manifest in their actions. Some die without doing anything of the sort or even know about such tendencies. The confrontation that they are carriers of this gene and have the specific developmental anomalies in the frontal cortex often help in the individual being able to more cautiously calculate their actions and whether they are sparked by this trait or something more "normal". Some don't, and use it as an excuse to carry out attrocious crimes.

I have a friend who is this way. He never fully embraced his psychopathic revelation, mainly because he considered himself normal, and we considered him normal too, he didn't show any recognizable signs. His brain anomaly was discovered when he went to a hospital for an injury he sustained on the head. He functions just fine today. Another friend wanted to date him after this event, as she was fascinated with characters like Charles Manson and the like. It made me realize in the end, was my psychopathic friend really that odd and weird, or maybe my female friend that wanted to date such a guy? At the very end, ending up asking myself in what kind of crowd have I built a circle of friends too! :D

Not that I'm any less weird, but as far as to my knowledge, nothing of the like discussed here. A sense of not belonging, difficulty relating, even for the very common stuff others experience, etc. That was prevalent in my childhood. Today I'm pretty normal. I had to change, the environment demands it in a way. For me, it wasn't learning how to be a human, but in some sense, mimicking it. Adaptation, blending in. Not for a sinister cause, but more of a cautious, fearful cause. Didn't know much about the world when I was that little, but an inner feeling kept telling be afraid, be very afraid, of this place. Now after a couple of decades, things are kind of clearer about it.

The only advice I can give you is, try not to read between the lines. You will find yourself insulted, victimized, called out, provoked, or even mocked. We don't share same brain patterns, and even similar brain patterns form different chain of thoughts and even more different systematic formation of sentences and expression with people. Not just here, everywhere. I've been down your road a few times here, you will get the hang of it, you are still brand new.

Assume nothing, question everything.

If you find something alarming in somebody's post, try questioning them about it. I'm only putting this out there because you seem to be a fella who has a lot to say and share, and assumptions lead to confrontations, those in turn lead to flame wars. These last ones can end a topic faster than you can say sorry. Its not about whether I, Carmody, or anyone else is on 'your' side or 'against' you. Unless explicitly stated by somebody, in the terms of this discussion there are no sides.

You don't have to stay away from this topic because you disagree with somebody's opinions/thoughts. There would be a whole lotta empty threads if everybody decided not to bother with a topic not many side their own views/persuasions. Your input is still appreciated. Try that approach, I'm sure you'll make more friends rather than enemies :).

OnyxKnight
26th January 2014, 02:22
See why kind of system you envision and what kind of society you want to see tomorrow. Compare with others and see where you all stand. If there is enough similar thoughts and agreed terms, why not work towards that? Those that have other ideas sure are welcome to try their own approach, the world is a big enough place for everybody. We can put all the speculation to a test and see what results it musters.

Before that, we do need to hear all kinds of opinions. And that includes yours too. Especially if you consider yourself part of a specific group of people, and in a way, their advocate.

Don't worry about the rest. Bumps in the road, nothing much more than that. All PA members experience it sooner or later. So consider this a sign, a confirmation stamp that you are now an official member after this. So welcome! :)

Carmody
26th January 2014, 06:11
This thread's intent was, and is, more than anything, about raising the subject and the possibilities and perils within. Nothing more. It's the settling of the pen, onto the page. A dot. Where it goes, how it is written, is yet to be seen.

donk
28th January 2014, 13:48
I believe the tech to do what the OP suggests already exists. I agree implementing it would be tricky, especially considering who’s hands it would be in, if and when it is viable. I came across this, apparently Kit Green’s been at it for awhile:

http://www.starpod.us/2013/01/16/kit-greens-mindtap-we-can-watch-a-person-decide-to-lie-in-real-time/

PurpleLama
5th February 2014, 23:00
This thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68162-Who-Are-You&p=793712&viewfull=1#post793712) deserves a nod. Well put.

Carmody
8th February 2014, 06:58
It can be seen to be coming into shape.

Johns Hopkins Introduces Database of Children's Brain Scans (http://www.activistpost.com/2014/02/johns-hopkins-introduces-database-of.html)

Over the last year, it seems as if the technological control grid has been kicked in to high speed as various forms of biometrics, transhumanism, smart grids, the internet of things and neuroscience merge closer and closer together. Indeed, it would be naïve to suggest that this was not the goal all along. However, the fact that these “new” technologies are now being connected together in public view suggests that society in general is further along the path to the full implementation of the total surveillance system and electronic dictatorship than anyone may have initially believed.

For instance, it has recently been announced that Johns Hopkins University is in the process of creating a Google-style searchable digital library of children’s brain scans. The project will be supported by a grant from the National Institutes of Health to the tune of $600,000 over three years under the guise of an attempt to greater assist doctors in the diagnosis of irregularities occurring in the brain. Doctors will also be able to compare the brain scans in order to identify changes in brain structure and, hopefully, identify diseases even earlier.

As Michael Miller, a Johns Hopkins biomedical engineering professor and the lead researcher for the program states, “We're creating a pediatric-brain data bank that will let doctors look at MRI brain scans of children who have already been diagnosed with illnesses like epilepsy or psychiatric disorders. It will provide a way to share important new discoveries about how changes in brain structures are linked to brain disorders.”

At the present time, the database only holds about 5,000 brain scans and only from children treated at Johns Hopkins. According to Anne-Marie Alcantara of Mashable.com, the scans are indexed and arranged into 22 different categories such as, psychiatric disorders, chromosomal abnormalities, vascular diseases, congenital malformations, infections, or epilepsy.



“Due to the high volume of information in the database, researchers believe it will help physicians easily recognize and classify pediatric brain disorders, as well as reclassify and identify new brain diseases,” Alcantara writes.

As reported by The Hub, the news center from Johns Hopkins, the researchers, along with Marilyn Albert, a Johns Hopkins professor of neurology, the institution is attempting to expand this database to include the elderly as well.

Johnathan Lewin, chief radiologist at Johns Hopkins Hospital has stated that “This research is one of the first real applications of big-data analytics, taking medical information from large numbers of patients, removing anything that would identify specific individuals and then bringing the data into the cloud to allow very high-powered analysis.”

Although there is no mention of patient consent in the press release, one hopes (but one does not expect) that the individuals whose brain scans are added into the database are asked their permission before doing so.

Another issue, however, is the ability of the medical establishment to upload such images to a database which is then uploaded to the Cloud, for other researchers to peruse. While it could scarcely be argued that such a development is a purely negative one, it should raise the eyebrows of anyone who is concerned about privacy and the growing web of interconnected systems in seemingly unrelated fields.

~~~~~~~~~~

More at link. Be aware. Make it work for you, as it will probably not be possible to stop it. But to move it, to shift it... to make it work for the people.

araucaria
8th February 2014, 09:32
Privacy should not be a concern here – we have no privacy at this time. What we have is secrecy, which notably includes the secret invasion of privacy. Hence any sense of privacy is limited to our ignorance of what is really going on. The existence of remote viewing and telepathy means that true privacy can only be bestowed and obtained through the ethical use of ‘technology’ – by deliberately looking away. The ethical use of technology would also appear to impose certain procedures that may possibly be viewed as an invasion of privacy, in that personal information is imparted that so far has remained secret. But put this in the broader picture of the general good, whereby we increase our current quasi-nonexistent level of privacy to something more acceptable, and you understand the ethics of a seemingly unethical move. The lie is in making people think they have something to lose: they have nothing to lose, and everything to gain.

Ethics are not carved in stone, which is not to say that anything goes. We already know that they do not always coincide with religious morals. We sometimes need a little flexibility to see things differently, otherwise we are rigidly submitting to fear-based instinctive behaviour patterns. The fact that a just society can have laws at all is a paradox when one considers that such a society engages in acts of coercion which would be unethical on an individual level.

We need to take back the slogan, ‘If you have done nothing, then you have nothing to fear’. We are talking about people who have ‘done nothing’. And so they must have nothing ‘to fear’. It a matter of helping them to be useful to society in ways suited to their talents. For example, in the olden days, a British bobby had to be a certain height in order to impose his gentle authority without the need for guns and tasers. Nowadays the height requirement is seen as discrimination against the ‘vertically challenged’, so now, while a shorter man can become a policeman, he may well be incompetent to perform the original task, especially if he brings to it a chip on his shoulder from being small.

These days, anyone can become anything. You see people with master’s degrees who never studied for a bachelor’s – there are back doors to everything. And in fact, most people are competent to do most jobs inasmuch as they tend to involve pumping statistics into a computer, making them up if you don’t have any real ones. But like phony money, these stats are being acted upon as if they were meaningful. Hence the entire fabric of western ‘civilization’ is the handiwork of incompetents behaving like madmen. This is the psychopathic tendency that is being cultivated in all of us to make the real thing almost unidentifiable. Which is really why we need psychopathic screening: in order to weed out the millions of false positives and bring normal people back to their senses.

Flash
8th February 2014, 15:48
It can be seen to be coming into shape.

Johns Hopkins Introduces Database of Children's Brain Scans (http://www.activistpost.com/2014/02/johns-hopkins-introduces-database-of.html)

Over the last year, it seems as if the technological control grid has been kicked in to high speed as various forms of biometrics, transhumanism, smart grids, the internet of things and neuroscience merge closer and closer together. Indeed, it would be naïve to suggest that this was not the goal all along. However, the fact that these “new” technologies are now being connected together in public view suggests that society in general is further along the path to the full implementation of the total surveillance system and electronic dictatorship than anyone may have initially believed.

For instance, it has recently been announced that Johns Hopkins University is in the process of creating a Google-style searchable digital library of children’s brain scans. The project will be supported by a grant from the National Institutes of Health to the tune of $600,000 over three years under the guise of an attempt to greater assist doctors in the diagnosis of irregularities occurring in the brain. Doctors will also be able to compare the brain scans in order to identify changes in brain structure and, hopefully, identify diseases even earlier.

As Michael Miller, a Johns Hopkins biomedical engineering professor and the lead researcher for the program states, “We're creating a pediatric-brain data bank that will let doctors look at MRI brain scans of children who have already been diagnosed with illnesses like epilepsy or psychiatric disorders. It will provide a way to share important new discoveries about how changes in brain structures are linked to brain disorders.”

At the present time, the database only holds about 5,000 brain scans and only from children treated at Johns Hopkins. According to Anne-Marie Alcantara of Mashable.com, the scans are indexed and arranged into 22 different categories such as, psychiatric disorders, chromosomal abnormalities, vascular diseases, congenital malformations, infections, or epilepsy.



“Due to the high volume of information in the database, researchers believe it will help physicians easily recognize and classify pediatric brain disorders, as well as reclassify and identify new brain diseases,” Alcantara writes.

As reported by The Hub, the news center from Johns Hopkins, the researchers, along with Marilyn Albert, a Johns Hopkins professor of neurology, the institution is attempting to expand this database to include the elderly as well.

Johnathan Lewin, chief radiologist at Johns Hopkins Hospital has stated that “This research is one of the first real applications of big-data analytics, taking medical information from large numbers of patients, removing anything that would identify specific individuals and then bringing the data into the cloud to allow very high-powered analysis.”

Although there is no mention of patient consent in the press release, one hopes (but one does not expect) that the individuals whose brain scans are added into the database are asked their permission before doing so.

Another issue, however, is the ability of the medical establishment to upload such images to a database which is then uploaded to the Cloud, for other researchers to peruse. While it could scarcely be argued that such a development is a purely negative one, it should raise the eyebrows of anyone who is concerned about privacy and the growing web of interconnected systems in seemingly unrelated fields.

~~~~~~~~~~

More at link. Be aware. Make it work for you, as it will probably not be possible to stop it. But to move it, to shift it... to make it work for the people.

The idea is great, if the brain scans ARE NOT in the hands of the psychopaths. But we know very well, right now, that the society is psychopatic because it is led by psychopaths who want to control, possess and have power on everything. These, with brain scans, would root out empathic individuals. It would be exactly what we propose to root out psychopaths, but used to root out empathy and love instead.

This is precisely why this thread is SO important. How do we make the general public aware of what is actually taking place, actually going on. How do we reverse of change the machine. The survival and further development of the specie towards a spiritually evolving potential is at stake. The whole specie project is at stake.

What is being fought is POWER VERSUS LOVE. PSYCHOPAHY VERSUS EMPATHY. Which of both worlds have most chances of success and pursuing it development.

Which of both has more chances of achieving universal wisdom.

Psychopathy will always end into dead ends, it will always end into developmental and spiritual cul de sac.

Humans, with or without some outside help, have always chosen hierarchies, power and psychopatic leaders. Even if in their heart it is not what they would will. How loud do we have to scream to make it understood "now chose differently, this is a dead end". Scanning psychopaths out of power is one solution, before they scan loving empathetic humans out.

Carmody
11th March 2014, 18:52
Just bumping this, as a question was asked by a recently deceased union leader, Bob crow. A forum member has started a thread on this person (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?69326-RMT-union-general-secretary-Bob-Crow-dies.....He-visited-and-spoke-in...). Bob asked:


“If you can find all this money to destroy society, why can’t you use it to construct society?”

This thread, explains the origins, the act and the system of controls in place (maintenance of the enablers and actors in this system/scenario), as to the 'why' of his question.

This thread is about cutting the legs out from under the mechanism that enables the war machine. So that it can ever operate again. So that it no longer pollutes humanity's future. It's about humanity finding the sense in the direction that is possible.

Bob
28th March 2014, 01:53
bumping this thread - watching what's been happening, :)


http://www.think-aboutit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Lucifer31-280x282.jpg

http://psychopathyawareness.wordpress.com/2011/09/13/dangerous-mind-games-how-psychopaths-manipulate-and-deceive/ - how PsychoPaths manipulate others in order to gain power, admiration, emotion and charge from others..


"8. Playing upon your Emotions. Very often, when confronted with alternative accounts of what happened, psychopaths play upon your emotions. For example, if his girlfriend compares notes with the wife, a psychopath is likely to ask his wife:

“Who are you going to believe? Me or her?”

"This reestablishes complicity with the wife against the girlfriend, testing the wife’s love and loyalty to him. It also functions as a subterfuge.

"That way he (the suppressive monster) doesn’t have to address the information offered by the other source.

"To anybody whose judgment remains unclouded by the manipulations of a psychopath, the answer should be quite obvious.

"Just about any person, even your garden-variety cheater and liar, is far more credible than a psychopath. "

good link check it out (http://psychopathyawareness.wordpress.com/2011/09/13/dangerous-mind-games-how-psychopaths-manipulate-and-deceive/) - then put in perspective when you feel your emotions are being manipulated - what they do with that "energy" you create is the subject of another thread :)

Bob
28th March 2014, 02:27
When the psychopath tries to "convince you" they are your friend, and are the "top dog" able to see above the rest.. to play upon your desire to find "truth"..

"Psychopaths are Losers who view themselves as Leaders. As we’ve seen, unless there’s a specific advantage for him, a psychopath never admits to being wrong, to doing wrong, to having wronged anyone.

"Whatever he does wrong to others–cheating, lying, manipulation, hurting them emotionally and physically–he manages to project blame on the victims and on those around them.

"In fact, the psychopath will see his cowardly actions as superior; on a higher plane of existence than the rest of humanity.

"Rather than seeing himself as the pathological person that he is–essentially, a Loser who spends his life parasitically using and taking advantage of others–the psychopath is likely to see and describe himself as a maverick: a lone dissenter, a willfully independent hero “ahead of the pack,” who rejects the dated and commonplace notions of right and wrong and of truth and falsehood.

"Ethical human beings, who care about others, are considered by the psychopath and his followers “moralistic” and “narrow-minded”.

"Like the Nietzschean Superman, the psychopath considers himself beyond the norms of good and evil: except, of course, when it comes to double standards, since no psychopath would want others to use, manipulate, deride and hurt him as he does them.

"The underlying narcissism that leads the psychopath to focus only on his desires, pleasures and needs also blinds him to his faults and protects him from self-blame.

"He reframes reality to fit with his narcissistic delusions.

"Sleaziness, violence, stalking and perversion--sadistic games played at other people’s expense–are framed as “hedonism”, ”childlike innocence and playfulness” or “libertine freedom”.

"Lies are re-framed as “creative interpretations of reality” or clever “modes of persuasion”.

"Manipulativeness, slander and back-stabbing become, in his deranged mind, “Machiavellianism” or “cunning”.

"As the psychopath’s idiotic grins which often accompany his malicious actions reveal time after time, his behavior and intentions are as far removed from “childlike” or “harmless fun” as possible.

“Freedom” too is a meaningless concept, given that his main goal is to trample on the freedom and rights of others.

"He intends to control and harm others: control by harming them, to be precise."

Don't let your emotions be trampled on is something to keep in mind it seems to me. I would think that one would be wise to take some time and look at the above, and measure what you are feeling against the messages given to you, the program given to you to react to. Why let your energy be used by a psychopath?

ref: http://psychopathyawareness.wordpress.com/category/dangerous-liaisons-how-to-identify-and-escape-from-psychopathic-seduction/ - the seduction from the psychopath, how they trap


http://zennist.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451d26869e20111689fc872970c-pi

Chanlo23
28th March 2014, 17:43
I have had the misfortune of being stalked since the late 90's by a psychopath, and had many run-ins with 3-4 others.

On the link below, they provide two lists of psychopathy traits that i found to be very accurate. The Hare Checklist fit all of them to a "T", while Checkley's list was only off in listing an (2) Absence of delusions and other signs of irrational thinking and an (3) Absence of anxiety or other “neurotic” symptoms.

In all the psychopaths I have known, both absences only exist in the getting-to-know-you stage. Once they feel they have you 'hooked', then they reveal striking delusions/irrational thinking (particularly non-sequitors) and their anxiety and other neurosis are most evidenced by ramping up contact by emails and phone calls on trivial matters that have often already been addressed.

http://psychopathyawareness.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/the-list-of-psychopathy-symptoms/

Carmody
2nd April 2014, 01:21
What is this thread about? Actions, acts, motions and flow. Eventualities.... and dominoes.

For those who 'doth protesteth', I think your ideals are in need of adjustment to the realities that are in front of you. This is not about act and actions done in anger, it's about closing loopholes and reaching points in finality that are wholly inescapable, as the vessel, the avatar of inclusion of this type, is no longer in the human gene pool.

Do not be emotional, and project upon me, that I speak of ugly things. I do not. What they are, must be recognized, known, and curtailed, otherwise..humanity has no future.

You can go back to the stone ages and learn this again, or...you can go forward... and, due to the clarity of need, reality and requirement... end the sociopath and their capacity - that currently resides/hides among you.

The sociopath will never sleep, they will never stop, never reform, never quit.... never. Every other way has been tired, for thousands upon thousands of years. Now, the technology that the sociopath uses to try and turn you into slaves and fodder for the fields (wholesale murder), is the same technology that can be used to excise them from humanity.

The universe presents this quandary of a requirement to self govern - in front of you. The latest test for humanity.

Those are your options.

I don't particularly like saying these things. I don't particularly enjoy being targeted. I'd rather go off and live in the woods, or run off to some other country and just leave people to their well deserved pile of doo that they are going to run into like a deaf/dumb/blind drunk walking into the path of a freight train. People slept, people were lulled into sleep. They were dumb enough to let people govern, dumb enough to let them govern with no oversight. Foolish enough to trust words that have no purchase beyond words... as good folks...they live by their words and project the same honest fundamentals upon others. Others like sociopaths who live---otherwise.

The lesson is clear, if one allows themselves to see it.

That's the thing about governance in democracies, it attracts the wrong people. The thing about government is that you never allow weak points, you never allow the removal of penalties in the realm of accountability, and your never give a politician an even break. Never leave room for a sleight of hand in anything and you never drop your guard, for a second, as long as you are alive. If you even blink, corruption will step in, as that is what It lives for, that is it's entire point of existence. Sociopaths live for the room, the opportunity.. to operate. It is what they do, what they are.

And America... allowed itself to sleep. It believed it's own press, it believed it's own lies.

Well....look at you now.


PeDYrKnLDi8


How serious is it? People are even afraid to look into this thread, or to thank a post.

No. Moral. Backbone.

If you don't find one, it will cost you everything.

Flash
2nd April 2014, 12:14
If we finally get rid of psychopaths to lead this world, and have decent people instead, this speech will go down in history.



No. Moral. Backbone.

If you don't find one, it will cost you everything.



And theses sentences above will go down in history of other races than humans, about humans, if we do not move our arses and shut the door to psychopaths.

I would add Carmody, if you allow me, lack of basic intelligence: head intelligence to be able to discern and moslly heart intelligences which makes discernment automatic, and then lack of will to act upon what one has seen.

Snowflower
2nd April 2014, 13:49
One thing I have learned about psycho/sociopaths: they are the problem.

Why does the govt. let pollution destroy the planet? Because psychopaths are in charge.

Why do corporations allow their product development to kill people and destroy the planet? Because psychopaths are in charge.

Why do Priests get away with pedophile attacks? Because psychopaths are in charge.

Why do schools create lockdown situations and arrest parents for being concerned? Because psychopaths are in charge.

Why are the police turning into militant swat teams? Because psychopaths are in charge.

Yes, I am stating what I see as the universal problem. Despite a low percentage of the population (is it really only 5%?) psycho/sociopaths have enough ambition and desire to be "at the top," are charismatic enough to fool the majority of people, and can mimic true intelligence enough to convince people they are worthy, that the 5% is way over represented in the power positions.

It isn't only in real time that we deal with psychopaths. They are definitely here among us on Avalon as well as other forums. In fact, I was kicked off the Webbot Forum specifically because I tried to alert members to the very real danger we face from psychopaths. Until the day I wrote a post about them soon after I started learning, I was a respected and valued member of the forum. That day, persecution started. Most of the members couldn't see it, just as psychopaths manage to hide from all but their victims in real time.

Thomas Sheridan, despite the scandals that have since been clouding his Internet presence, got one idea very, very right: No Contact Ever Again. I am SO much better off since "Foxx" AKA Dan, AKA whoever he really is, banned me entirely from the forum - without even bothering to come up with an excuse for doing so. That is a very unhealthy place now being run exclusively by the fox in the henhouse.

A psycho/sociopath does not have to be the CEO of a company or the president of the US. He just has to be the power behind his own little world. The Webbot Forum is a little world. A church is its own little world. An elementary school classroom with a group of victims ie. kindergartners is its own little world.

Brain scans can definitively diagnose a psycho/sociopath. This could happen before a person enters the workforce - as a teen. Because it involves the brain's reaction to scenes conveying emotion, it might not be effective on babies or small children. But at least a psycho/sociopath could be stopped before doing harm to the world at large!

donk
2nd April 2014, 17:16
....I agree snowflower, nice post.

Only problem about brain scanning folks to screen for psychopathy? The psychopaths are in charge :(

araucaria
2nd April 2014, 17:42
The psychopaths are in charge(
And we want to be able to say 'The psychopaths are on charge' - i.e. at least some of them on criminal charges, it's only a tiny difference. How is this to be done? By slipping in a line of legislation at 2am on Christmas Eve for example? A means will be found when the will to do it becomes unstoppable. Until then, we will it to happen.

Flash
2nd April 2014, 18:21
Good question Araucaria, maybe we should brain storm on how it should be done.

Carmody had started by thinking of implementing the scan in jail for prisoner and employees.

What else could be done?

Snowflower
2nd April 2014, 20:19
My personal opinion on it is that there is zero hope to avoid total collapse of the entire structure of civilization. The psychopaths have succeeded in destroying civilization, but Gaia will have the final say in the restructuring of a new age.

My personal hope is that the vibrations of the planet change enough that either they will gradually die off and not be replaced or it will be impossible for them to hide behind charisma and charm, because we will see them with eyes of knowing.

I believe it is already happening. Three years ago, I had no idea they were so prevalent. Now, I can often spot one in the initial conversation. More and more people are seeing them. The worst victimizing I suffered from one put me in jail for a night, and I don't think I will ever again be so taken in. It's much harder the closer to home it is (relatives). But, I do believe that over the course of time, Gaia will triumph. My reason for this optimism is the number of different cultures that promise a Golden Age after the shift, and a Golden Age is simply not possible with the current hierarchical structure of the planet. As long as psycho/sociopaths can hide their true nature from humans, there will be no peace and we have been promised peace for millennia.

Bob
4th April 2014, 03:08
A good article on brainscans are showing physical locations where issues occur..

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/04/02/298332344/map-of-the-developing-human-brain-shows-where-problems-begin


http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2014/04/02/brain_jh_wide-07dc4a1bc7b1d85876f0c092143b9073e029f572-s40-c85.jpg

"The map shows where genes are turned on and off throughout the entire brain at about the midpoint of pregnancy, a time when critical structures are taking shape, researchers reported Wednesday in the journal Nature.

"It's a pretty big leap," says Ed Lein, an investigator at the Allen Institute for Brain Science in Seattle who played a central role in creating the map. "Basically, there was no information of this sort prior to this project."

"Having a map like this is important because many psychiatric and behavioral problems appear to begin before birth, "even though they may not manifest until teenage years or even the early 20s," says Dr. Thomas Insel, director of the National Institute of Mental Health."

"The resulting map, which is available to anyone who wants to use it, has already led to at least two important findings, Lein says. "The first is that many genes that are associated with brain disorders are turned on early in development, which suggests that these disorders may have their origin from these very early time points."

http://www.brainspan.org/ - specific references to "BrainSpan Atlas of the Developing Human Brain

"The BrainSpan atlas is a foundational resource for studying transcriptional mechanisms involved in human brain development."

Antagenet
4th April 2014, 04:28
The sociopath will never sleep, they will never stop, never reform, never quit.... never. Every other way has been tired, for thousands upon thousands of years. Now, the technology that the sociopath uses to try and turn you into slaves and fodder for the fields (wholesale murder), is the same technology that can be used to excise them from humanity.



Carmody, Thankyou for opening up a brave and fascinating topic. I agree that the sociopath lives to enjoy their malevolence and will never stop. I have known many. They may do some good, to pass as normal, to get ahead, to achieve applause which their narcissistic side may like, but it is never enough for them. Their real thrill is destruction of others and feeling superior. It is their substitute for love, since they can not feel it. It is their punishment to the rest of us for us being able to feel love, empathy, unity... something they never do. They only pretend to sometimes.

The question behind the scanning or not scanning for evil ones, is, what will be done with them? Put them on an island together to live like the emotional lepers they are? Or just put them to sleep, permanently. The problem is, to ask the 90% empathic majority to kill or vanquish is not in their true nature. Whom of us could strangle a hitler, even if we knew they were going to exterminate a million people? This is a huge moral dilemma.

The irony is, that if the tables were turned, the sociopaths would round up all the empaths and have a grand ole time slaughtering them.

So when will they be dethroned, taken out of positions of power? When the empaths grow some iron balls and steel cunts and we decide the planet is more important and they have to go. It's way overdue.

ThePythonicCow
4th April 2014, 06:54
If we acquiesce to total surveillance by powerful sociopaths, then we abandon the potential to effective and sustained resistance. The bastards in power will be able to detect our first efforts that threaten their control, and will be able to stomp us out quickly, whether it is the efforts of one individual, or of a group, that they are "terminating."

One does not consent to live in chains in the closed room of a mass murderer, on the grounds that "well ... he hasn't killed me yet."

Mass surveillance is not about solving legitimate, moral, constitutional crimes. If it was, one might tolerate it on the grounds that one is not a criminal. In the eyes of the bastards in power, we are always criminals if and when we threaten their control. They define what's a crime, not us. Their law is just another means to their end -- total dominance.

Mass surveillance is the first step of mass tyranny. In any war, if one side's intelligence has massive penetration of their enemy, even before the other side knows they are the enemy, the war is essentially already decided.

We are the enemy of the bastards in power. We are having our greater numbers turned against us by those bastards, using their mastery of propaganda, and guided by their mass surveillance of us, both collectively and individually.

araucaria
4th April 2014, 07:39
My personal opinion on it is that there is zero hope to avoid total collapse of the entire structure of civilization. The psychopaths have succeeded in destroying civilization, but Gaia will have the final say in the restructuring of a new age.

Civilization is the very concept that we need to be demolishing. It is the mother of all sacred cows and “total collapse” of its “entire structure” is exactly what we need. Daniel Quinn calls it “the killer meme”. If I string together two previous posts I made, it will be seen just how difficult this is going to be, and just how many treasures of civilization we need to walk away from.




In books like Ishmael or Beyond Civilization, Daniel Quinn describes the killer meme of ‘civilization’ in various terms, such as Takers, Hierarchalism, Pyramid builders etc. ‘Lost’ civilizations like the Maya, he says, did not disappear but simply walked away from this model, just as we now need to walk away into what he calls a New Tribal Revolution.


Daniel Quinn teaches that no single person is going to save the world. Rather (if it’s saved at all), it will be saved by millions (and ultimately billions) of us living a new way. A thousand living a new way won’t cause the dominant world order to topple. But that thousand will inspire a hundred thousand, who will inspire a million, who will inspire a billion – and then that world order will begin to look shaky! (p.152)

What Quinn describes as the killer meme is that ‘civilization must continue at ANY cost and not be abandoned under ANY circumstance’. The cure is dead simple: the Maya for example, who are supposed to have simply vanished, actually just walked away from what they were building when they no longer liked it. They had been building new pyramids over old pyramids for thousands of years.

The worker hordes who built the pyramids of Mesoamerica were not more miserable than the ones who the pyramids of Egypt. The workers of Mesoamerica merely perceived themselves as having an alternative to misery, which they eventually exercised (by walking away). We didn’t, so we slogged on, building a ziggurat here, a Great Wall there, a bastille here, a Maginot Line there–and on and on and on–to the present moment, when our pyramids are not being built at Giza or Saqqara but rather at Exxon and Du Pont and Coca Cola and Proctor & Gamble and McDonald’s.
I visit many classrooms, and the students one way or another always bring me round to a point where I ask how many of them are champing at the bit to get out there and start working on the pyramids their parents worked on throughout their lives and their parents before them. The question makes them uneasy, because they know they’re supposed to be absolutely thrilled at the prospect of going out there to flip burgers and pump gas and stock shelves in the real world. Everyone’s told them they’re the luckiest kids on earth–parents, teachers, textbooks–and they feel disloyal not waving their hands at me. But they don’t. (p.51) Walking away from the pyramid is not that easy because it involves leaving behind things we consider most sacred, including heritage that we invest heavily in preserving at all costs. Stay tuned.


Life is about moving on, and the well-nigh indestructible pyramids are the ultimate in jamming on the brakes. That they have spawned a myriad theories and remain hypnotically fascinating merely serves to mask the fact that life is about moving on.

We find the same thing with MH370: a moving object has been stopped in its tracks, and this too has spawned a myriad theories and has become hypnotically fascinating.

Our museums are full of this sort of stuff: indeed that is what they are for. No sooner was the Berlin War pulled down than museums were seeking to purchase pieces for display. The most interesting bits had artwork on the western side.
http://www.memorial-caen.fr/mur_de_berlin/expocybu06.htm

So when the concrete starts crumbling, they will have to think about preserving it somehow. Sounds crazy? Well, it doesn’t sound quite so crazy when you consider that the same is happening with our art treasures; but maybe that’s a mistake. These artistic chunks of wall are highly paradoxical items, signifying freedom on a support that seen from the other side stood for an end to freedom. We cannot separate the one from the other, so for the sake of the one we keep the other as well. Much great art, being likewise a contestation of the wall on which it is mounted, bears similarities to a window, letting in light and air and the otherwise invisible. But it still marks the boundary between an inside and an outside. Total freedom means walking through a door and being outside, rather than depicting the outside from inside. Hence less art is more art.

Take Leonardo da Vinci, perhaps the greatest artist of the last millennium and whose tiny output makes his works even more precious. And yet paradoxically, much of his work was unfinished. Vasari in his Lives of the Artists, tries to explain:

Clearly, it was because of his profound knowledge of painting that Leonardo started so many things without finishing them; for he was convinced that his hands, for all their skill, could never perfectly express the subtle and wonderful ideas of his imagination. Among his many interests was included the study of nature; he investigated the properties of plants and then observed the motions of the heavens, the path of the moon, and the course of the sun. This segment contains a paradox and an apparent non sequitur. It is paradoxical for a ‘profound knowledge of painting’ to lead to unfinished work; and what has his imagination to do with nature after close examination? Answer: nature is profoundly unfinished and painting in its adequate relationship to nature will also be so.

Take a work that has spawned a myriad theories and remains hypnotically fascinating (it cropped up again only the other day on this forum): The Last Supper. I am going to offer one of my own: you read it here first. Here is Vasari:


Leonardo also executed in Milan, for the Dominicans of Santa Maria delle Grazie, a marvelous and beautiful painting of the Last Supper. Having depicted the heads of the Apostles full of splendour and majesty, he deliberately left the head of Christ unfinished, convinced he would fail to give it the divine spirituality it demands. This all but finished work has ever since been held in the greatest veneration by the Milanese and others. In it Leonardo brilliantly succeeded in envisaging and reproducing the tormented anxiety of the Apostles to know who had betrayed their master; so in their faces one can read the emotions of love, dismay, and anger, or rather sorrow, at their failure to grasp the meaning of Christ. And this excites no less admiration than the contrasted spectacle of the obstinacy, hatred, and treachery in the face of Judas or, indeed, than the incredible diligence with which every detail of the work was executed. The texture of the very cloth on the table is counterfeited so cunningly that the linen itself could not look more realistic.
It is said that the prior used to keep pressing Leonardo, in the most importune way, to hurry up and finish the work, because he was puzzled by Leonardo’s habit of sometimes spending half a day at a time contemplating what he had done so far; if the prior had had his way, Leonardo would have toiled like one of the labourers hoeing in the garden and never put his brush down for a moment. Not satisfied with this, the duke was constrained to send for Leonardo and very tactfully, question him about the painting, although he showed perfectly well that he was only doing so because of the prior’s insistence. Leonardo, knowing he was dealing with a prince of acute and discerning intelligence, was willing (as he never had been with the prior) to explain his mind at length; and so he talked to the duke for a long time about the art of painting. He explained that men of genius sometimes accomplish most when they work the least; for, he added, they are thinking out inventions and forming in their minds the perfect ideas which they subsequently express and reproduce with their hands. Leonardo then said that he still had two heads to paint: the head of Christ was one, and for this he was unwilling to look for any human model, nor did he dare suppose that his imagination could conceive the beauty and divine grace that properly belonged to the incarnate Deity. Then, he said, he had yet to do the head of Judas, and this troubled him since he did not think he could imagine all the features that would form the countenance of a man who, despite all the blessings he had been given, could so cruelly steel his will to betray his own master and the Creator of the world. However, added Leonardo, he would try to find a model for Judas, and if he did not succeed in doing so, why then he was not without the head of that tactless and importunate prior. The duke roared with laughter at this and said that Leonardo had every reason in the world for saying so. The unfortunate prior retired in confusion to worry the labourers working in his garden, and he left off worrying Leonardo, who skilfully finished the head of Judas and made it seem the very embodiment of treachery and inhumanity. The head of Christ remained, as was said, unfinished. This story suggests a number of observations:
· The usual ‘love & light’ approach to the subject is the Last Supper as the institution of the Eucharist, which may be seen as an approximation of the immaterial Christ presence in the physical. Instead of this, Leonardo seems to be focussing on the dark conspiracy side: the moment of betrayal. No one ever seems to comment on this strange fact.
· The unfinished in this painting denotes the spiritual, invisible aspect of nature: Christ’s features; while the finished denotes the physical, and especially in its betrayal of the spiritual. At the instant captured in the picture, everyone has a conscience to examine as a possible or partial traitor. The only fully clear conscience belongs to one whose head is only sketched in.
· The spiritual applied to the art of painting involves lengthy meditation, studying what has been done so far. The physical viewing of this process leads to impatience at seeing a man watching paint dry!
· This physical view of the process is the ultimate betrayal, hence the viewer might lend his features to a passable portrayal of Judas. In other words, betrayal and portrayal do not just sound similar, they are almost synonymous.
At this point, we may factor in what we know from elsewhere, namely the fact that the painting started deteriorating almost immediately upon completion and why. Fresco painting like this requires a special technique. To adhere properly, the paint must be applied to wet plaster, and as plaster dries very quickly, the painting is divided up into squares, and the painter still has to work very fast to finish one square before it dries. Clearly the prior was upset because even he could see that Leonardo was going about it in the wrong way and asking for trouble by deliberately taking his time.

Since it is hard to imagine one of the greatest artists the world has seen guilty of such gross incompetence, and in a sense betraying his art, we need to find another explanation that takes into account the presence of a genius at work. This explanation follows fairly logically from all the above, and would be more obvious if it didn’t sound quite so crazy. Simply this: the painting was designed not to last. Christ’s unpainted other-worldly features would disappear first; his followers’ would naturally take a little longer, but possibly no longer than their real-life counterparts. We need to remember this was the monks’ refectory (dining hall), and the scene would be like adding on a table at the end of the room. In other words, the monks would feel they were themselves apostles participating in that last supper, especially if they saw their own features in them. Eventually the painted bread and wine would disappear too, leaving just the real bread and wine in the here and now. There is something slightly heretical about showing the effacement of the betrayal in the dining-room rather than the chapel, sending a very different message from the love & light version of the Eucharist celebrated there. And yet, the whole point of experiencing Christ, his presence, death and ascension, may be said to be learning to see his physical absence as an abiding presence.

That is exactly what Leonardo’s ephemeral pigments were designed to show, and that is why all subsequent restorations were dreadfully botched and ultimately a betrayal in principle. The painting was intended to reenact that mystery by itself fading away, and for all the subsequent daubs, it has largely succeeded in that intention.

What then should be done with The Last Supper? Let it fade into nothingness at last. No more betrayal. [Sacrilege!]

And the pyramids? Letting them crumble has taken too long, and so has quarrying building materials. Maybe a few tons of TNT? Nah, no violence. Let’s just forget the whole thing and move on shall we? [Coverup!]

Some day we may get better at disappearing unwanted items. We are not very good at garbage disposal generally and have a word for stuff that is altogether beyond us at this time: ultimate waste. The pyramids are the ultimate cultural waste we don’t want to throw out; instead we are piling up more and drowning under it all. We need to learn to do the opposite. So far we seem capable of shifting a Boeing, which was quite impressive, except that it was by no means garbage. We can do better than that.

Snowflower
4th April 2014, 12:16
Life is so massively intertwining! A couple of days ago, my husband picked up "Ishmael" from the library that I had on hold, for my granddaughter to read - after not consciously thinking about Daniel Quinn for several years, and then I pop in here this morning and find your post.

Speaking of betrayal - I felt betrayed by Quinn's book, "Beyond Civilization." He had all these awesome Philosophies that just fell apart in the aspect of turning them to practical application. The book had people totally dependent on the chains of civilization while they were supposedly releasing themselves from civilization's trap.

His entire premise demands an escape from locked up food. The only way to do that is to create a personal food source that is free from all but your own efforts. "beyond Civilization" ignored the need to unlock food - and this metaphorically applies to all life-needs based on dependence on a grid.

Snowflower
4th April 2014, 12:48
I do not believe that the self-serving persona of the psychopath is a human characteristic. We are frequently assailed with the image of "human as selfish, naturally inclined toward violence, killing machines in times of crisis" kind of people. I don't think this is true. Humans are naturally inclined toward cooperative systems of working together for the good of all. However, the mind is subject to brainwashing techniques as well as chemically dependent on nutrients to create a healthy brain, and these factors have been a large part of the process of convincing people that they need to become just like the psychopaths.

In fact, I believe this is the ultimate goal of the powers that be - to create a world of mentally ill humans who think like psychopaths. I don't believe that actual psychopaths are at all "mentally ill," but there is a condition called "proto-psychopathy" which is a neuro-typical human acting out psychopathic behavior. This is treatable and curable.

I suspect Credo Mutwa is quite accurate with the Zulu story about happened to humanity. A reptilian race crossed from another dimension to earth, bred with human women, and then returned home. The resulting hybrids were controllable from that other dimension, and the purpose was to turn the Earth into a world where they can live - to change something about the planet so that they can colonize here.

So, what about the planet would have to change? Could it be that when we lose the grid, all the nuclear reactors melt down and create a radiated planet? But to take thousands of years to create a pollutant that would have a half-life cycle doesn't seem reasonable for a race that could plan something for thousands of years. Perhaps the "Law of One" people have the answer. Their stand is that everything in existence begins as one dimensional beings, progressing through billions of years toward 8th dimension, with each step bringing higher and higher levels of oneness and unity toward the point of oneness. This can be accomplished in either negative or positive polarities. Until the 4th dimension, both positive and negative exist in the same plane. At 4th dimension, planets (also sentient beings progressing through dimensions) become either one or the other. Our Earth is going into 4th dimension. According to the Law of One, she has made the positive choice, but for thousands of years, beings have been here from negative worlds trying to switch her to negative density. Interesting parallels in the two stories, eh?

Put those together with legends from many cultures about humanity in the throes of a dark age, and going into a new age of light, and that is how I arrive at the potential of psychopaths unable to survive in a world with a changed vibration.

Then we get to the physical manifestation of this - the undeniable fact that the vibration of our planet has sped up from 7.8 hertz to over 13 in the past hundred years, accelerating greatly since 1992, which coincidentally was the year the Mayans said we entered the "time of no time," and the Baha'is said we stepped over the threshold into the New Age.

araucaria
4th April 2014, 14:01
His entire premise demands an escape from locked up food. The only way to do that is to create a personal food source that is free from all but your own efforts. "beyond Civilization" ignored the need to unlock food - and this metaphorically applies to all life-needs based on dependence on a grid.
I don't know what you are talking about. (Why feel betrayed?? Isn't that placing a little too much reliance on someone?) You would need to give me a quote to contradict this one:


"There is no one right way for people to live" (his italics), except for "one very odd culture" "obsessed with the notion that there must be a single right way for people to live and indeed a single right way to do almost anything." p.183-4

Once we finally step back from the brink where the sociopaths have led us - you might call it the socio-path - we shall have the whole world before us to take whatever paths we choose. To say 'the only way...' reminds me of Margaret Thatcher, nicknamed Tina because her motto was There Is No Alternative! There are always alternatives when you claim your freedom.

araucaria
4th April 2014, 20:17
Good question Araucaria, maybe we should brain storm on how it should be done.

Carmody had started by thinking of implementing the scan in jail for prisoner and employees.

What else could be done?


Flash, here’s one thing we are already doing and which IMO is proving extremely effective, and that is thinking outside of the box. TINA (there is no alternative) is not only an example of in-the-box thinking, it establishes the contours of the box. It says ‘This is what you are going to think. This is your box, but it is invisible because I am telling you there is no alternative, there is no outside-the-box.’

Take my example of The Last Supper. The question is always How are we going to save it? There are alternative options within that box. But no one except Leonardo da Vinci, yours truly and no doubt quite a few philistines have suggested a different answer to the more basic question that is never asked, Should we save it or not? As an art-lover myself, I am talking about some serious iconoclasm here. And so, if I can afford the sacrilege of allowing such an icon to fade away, I can probably avoid any dependence on Snowflower’s grids as well.

The TINA approach to grids is always as far as possible one big grid rather than several smaller ones. This way, if a butterfly sneezes in Mexico, there might be a major flu epidemic in Japan :)
Tesla’s DC electricity would have required many local power stations, which was seen as a problem, and AC able to cover vast distances was introduced in its place. So now any blackouts will affect as many people as possible.

The grid mentality has had its day. What is a grid if not the lines around a set of boxes to confine us? Mains water is polluted; travel by road is nothing but soul-destroying and polluting congestion; airlines, once you get past the strip searches at airports, are subject to remote hijacking at any time; the Internet is mostly trashed, but it has this Achilles heel of forums like Avalon. Tell me, what future do we want for grids like these?

With free energy, power grids, road networks etc. will become unnecessary. And “unlocking food” is well underway, with many local initiatives and alternatives already in place.

Snowflower
4th April 2014, 21:09
Auricaria, I am really down there at the nitty gritty level. Far down the ladder from existential thought. I raise ducks and goats. I get eggs and meat and down from ducks and I get milk, cheese, butter, meat, and leather from goats. Unlocking the food. That's what I'm talking about. Getting food without the grid.

"Beyond Civilization" talked about cooperating with others to develop businesses while living in cities and getting food out of grocery stores, getting heat by flipping a switch, getting light with purchased power. There was nothing in the book about extricating oneself from dependence for bare survival on the system of civilization.

It has to start with ME and YOU and HIM and HER that figure out how (each in our own way) to break free of that dependence.

Bob
4th April 2014, 22:07
[..]
Tesla’s DC electricity would have required many local power stations, which was seen as a problem, and AC able to cover vast distances was introduced in its place. So now any blackouts will affect as many people as possible.
[..] :o ooops ??

Flash
4th April 2014, 22:23
[..]
Tesla’s DC electricity would have required many local power stations, which was seen as a problem, and AC able to cover vast distances was introduced in its place. So now any blackouts will affect as many people as possible.
[..] :o ooops ??

opps?? it is the reverse ain't it?


Edison's publicity campaign[edit]

Edison carried out a campaign to discourage the use [35] of alternating current, including spreading disinformation on fatal AC accidents, publicly electrocuting animals, and lobbying against the use of AC in state legislatures. Edison directed his technicians, primarily Arthur Kennelly and Harold P. Brown,[36] to preside over several AC-driven killings of animals, primarily stray cats and dogs but also unwanted cattle and horses. [37] Acting on these directives, they were to demonstrate to the press that alternating current was more dangerous than Edison's system of direct current.[38] He also tried to popularize the term for being electrocuted as being "Westinghoused". Years after DC had lost the "war of the currents," in 1903, his film crew made a movie of the electrocution with high voltage AC, supervised by Edison employees, of Topsy, a Coney Island circus elephant which had recently killed three men.[39]
...............

Nikola Tesla, inventor, physicist, and electro-mechanical engineer, who held several instrumental patents in the Westinghouse AC system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Currents

araucaria
5th April 2014, 07:54
Auricaria, I am really down there at the nitty gritty level. Far down the ladder from existential thought. I raise ducks and goats. I get eggs and meat and down from ducks and I get milk, cheese, butter, meat, and leather from goats. Unlocking the food. That's what I'm talking about. Getting food without the grid.

"Beyond Civilization" talked about cooperating with others to develop businesses while living in cities and getting food out of grocery stores, getting heat by flipping a switch, getting light with purchased power. There was nothing in the book about extricating oneself from dependence for bare survival on the system of civilization.

It has to start with ME and YOU and HIM and HER that figure out how (each in our own way) to break free of that dependence.

Thank you Snowflower, I couldn’t agree more. Beyond Civilization is only a short book (under 200 unfinished pages – say about 150 pages altogether). Given that, like you, it recommends a multiplicity of ways forward, it was never going to get down to the nitty gritty level you are talking about. If you judge him for what he doesn’t say, then a lot of people are going to feel betrayed. I personally think the idea is rather to see how a general message can be particularized. I disagree when you say he implies continued dependence on the grid. And I also disagree when you say he has nothing to say about unlocking the food. He actually writes, quote, “locking up the food spells the end of tribalism and beginning of the hierarchical life we call civilization”. He is talking about the food surpluses that need storing and police to guard the storehouse. It works like this:


As soon as the storehouse appears, someone must step forward to guard it, and this custodian needs assistants, who depend upon him entirely since they no longer earn a living as farmers. In a single stroke, a figure of power appears on the scene to control the community’s wealth, surrounded by a cadre of loyal vassals, ready to evolve into a ruling class of royals and nobles.(p.70) In other words (this is me not Quinn), perhaps the “original sin” was when Satan offered Eve an out-of-season apple from his storehouse :) And so food production provided the model for big finance in control of capital. Since Quinn readily acknowledges that mouths will still need to be filled, alternative methods as practiced by the likes of yourself are a crucial part in changing that paradigm. There is more and more supply and demand for buying locally and cutting out the “food industry” side of eating. And as you rightly point out, “It has to start with ME and YOU and HIM and HER that figure out how (each in our own way) to break free of that dependence”. “ME and YOU and HIM and HER” – not Daniel Quinn.

However, the broader point I am trying to make in the context of this thread is that this approach is more to do with the system than with individuals.


What I’ve endeavored to say in all my books is that the flaw in our civilization isn’t in the people, it’s in the system. (p.171) This is seemingly in contradiction with the argument of this thread, whereby we are talking about a tiny minority of people, the “elite” who created this system and are milking it for all they are worth. The apparent contradiction lies in dividing “the people” into a minority and a majority. Is the situation as clearcut as that? Brainscans would suggest so, but the idea notably of an archontic influence suggests that on the contrary, there is a group of “middlemen” and these agents of the élite are mere pawns that can readily be discarded and replaced with new ones. Ringing the changes has actually become a part of the process. Time for a democratic president? Here is a new democratic puppet etc. In other words, even within the minority, it is more about the system than about individuals. This is the hardcore’s way of expanding to look like a larger minority or even majority. Daniel Quinn implicitly denies the existence of a hardcore. This is where we would disagree with him.

What I am suggesting, then, is that outing the sociopaths is one prong of a two-pronged defense. We can screen for individuals and deal appropriately with those who fall into this minority category. And at the same time, we tackle the problem from the other end, by undermining in a myriad different ways the very system that allows them to thrive. Some people will adapt – those who have been showing sociopathic tendencies opportunistically, i.e. playing the system for their personal gain; others will be unable or unwilling to adapt – these are the true sociopaths, who live by the “survival of the fittest” philosophy and, being most unfit, will die by the “survival of the fittest” philosophy.

In short, I am confirming Carmody’s statement that screening of sociopaths is coming and cannot be stopped, because it is coming in multiple forms already well underway. This is something that has been decided simply has to happen, and the material details of how it comes about are in one sense totally secondary, automatic – and in another sense have to be worked at with the utmost commitment.

Re earlier post: Oops indeed, I seem to have got my wires crossed - an unconscious act of sabotage perhaps :)

Hervé
21st April 2014, 01:37
Assuming that all these brain scan dara are not the result of these pervasive antidepressant/SSRI drugs, then here is a start:

What It’s Like to Spend 20 Years Listening to Psychopaths for Science (http://www.wired.com/2014/04/psychopath-brains-kiehl/)



By Greg Miller (http://www.wired.com/author/greglm/)
04.17.14 |
6:30 am |



http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/bundy-660x446.jpg (http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/bundy.jpg)
Ted Bundy, shown here in 1978, unwittingly had a role in sparking Kent Kiehl’s interest in psychopaths. Photo: Donn Dughi/Bettmann/CORBIS


Kent Kiehl was walking briskly towards the airport exit, eager to get home, when a security guard grabbed his arm. “Would you please come with me, sir?” he said. Kiehl complied, and he did his best to stay calm while security officers searched his belongings. Then, they asked him if there was anything he wanted to confess.


http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/psychopath-sm-211x300.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/The-Psychopath-Whisperer-Science-Conscience/dp/077043584X)


Kiehl is a neuroscientist at the Mind Research Network and the University of New Mexico in Albuquerque, and he’s devoted his career to studying what’s different about the brains of psychopaths — people whose lack of compassion, empathy, and remorse has a tendency to get them into trouble with the law. On the plane, Kiehl had been typing up notes from an interview he’d done with a psychopath in Illinois who’d been convicted of murdering two women and raping and killing a 10-year old girl. The woman sitting next to him thought he was typing out a confession.

Kiehl recounts the story in a new book about his research, The Psychopath Whisperer (http://www.amazon.com/The-Psychopath-Whisperer-Science-Conscience/dp/077043584X). He has been interviewing psychopaths for more than 20 years, and the book is filled with stories of these colorful (and occasionally off-color) encounters. (Actually, The Psychopath Listener would have been a more accurate, if less grabby title.) More recently he’s acquired a mobile MRI scanner and permission to scan the brains of New Mexico state prison inmates. So far he’s scanned about 3,000 violent offenders, including 500 psychopaths.

He talked with WIRED about what’s different in the brains of psychopaths and why he views psychopathy as a preventable mental disorder.

WIRED: How do real life psychopaths differ from ones we see on TV or in movies?

Kent Kiehl: One of the biggest differences is that psychopaths are way more common than people believe. About one in 150 people will meet the stringent clinical criteria for the disorder. That means hundreds of thousands of them are out and about in the population. The majority of them don’t commit violent crimes, but they lead this sort of disorganized, nomadic life, and they tend to eventually end up in some sort of trouble. Hollywood hasn’t done a good job of portraying the average psychopath. For the most part, they’ve taken the extreme view, with the Hannibal Lecters and more sensationalized people like that. It’s actually far more common and banal.

WIRED: People also tend to confuse psychopathy and psychosis — what’s the difference?

Kiehl: Right. With psychopathy the main features are lack of empathy, guilt, and remorse — and impulsivity. Psychosis is a fragmentation of the mind where you have hallucinations and delusions. It’s a very different disorder. You almost never find someone who has psychotic delusions and even moderate levels of psychopathic traits.

WIRED: In the book you write that in two decades you’ve only come across a handful of people who scored 40 out of 40 on the psychopathy checklist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hare_Psychopathy_Checklist) (30 is commonly used as the psychopath cutoff. Regular folks tend to score around 4 or 5). What is it like to talk to a perfect psychopath?

Kiehl: They are so fundamentally different. You leave the room knowing that you’ve just met someone who is extremely different, even different from other psychopaths. They are absolutely and completely free from conscience. They have this unbelievably flat affect that’s really palpable when you look in their eyes.


http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/kent.jpg (http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/kent.jpg)
Kiehl stands at the entrance of his mobile MRI scanner. Photo: courtesy of Kent Kiehl


WIRED: It sounds like the sort of thing that would stay with you for a while…

Kiehl: Yeah. One of my favorites I call Shock Richie because he did some things that most of us would not even think were possible — the types of crimes he committed, the things he would do to the bodies afterwards. He would do things purely for shock value. When he walked into the maximum security prison on his first day he took off all his clothes and walked around completely naked out in the rain. All the other inmates were wondering what the hell was going on. I interviewed him later that day and he told me he does stuff like that to make sure people understand he’s capable of anything.

WIRED: What’s going through your mind when you’re sitting in the room with someone like that?

Kiehl: I’m just fascinated.

WIRED: Aren’t you ever worried about getting your ass kicked?

Kiehl: Well, more than just getting my ass kicked. I worked with a guy who admitted to me that he’d committed several murders on the outside and would commit more if people would ask. He had a team of confederates. I got a phone call a few days later from the head corrections officer at the prison where I was working at the time and he said “Kent, we’re taking you into protective custody. One of the inmates thinks you ratted him out and is talking about having you killed.” So my roommate and I went into protective custody for a couple days. It turned out that one of his confederates had snitched on him. Once that information got back to him, I went back to work as if nothing had happened. But there was a time there when I was worried about someone taking me out.

WIRED: Is it hard to spend so much time around people who’ve done really awful things?

Kiehl: I’m pretty comfortable with it. I’ve only met maybe 2 or 3 people in my career who after talking to them, I realized I just don’t need to know anything else about them. They’ve done such bad things and the way they dealt with it… I got to my limit.

WIRED: Why do you see psychopathy as a mental disorder, not just an extreme personality type?

Kiehl: I consider it a mental health problem because it’s associated with impairments at home, at work, with family, with friends. It leads to hospitalization or incarceration. It comes with all these other problems you associate with mental illness. The one thing that differentiates psychopaths is they don’t appear distressed by the fact that their life is a disaster. They lack insight into how their behavior affects other people.

WIRED: What is known at this point about what’s different about their brains?

Kiehl: We’ve found that psychopaths have 5 to 10 percent reduced gray matter density in and around the limbic regions [a network deep in the brain that's important for emotional processing]. We’ve also found — and a group in Germany has published a similar finding — that the tissue that connects the limbic system to the frontal lobes is disrupted. There have also been lots of studies published showing reduced responsivity in those circuits during emotional processing and moral decision making.


http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/brains.jpg (http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/brains.jpg)

Kiehl’s research has identified brain regions that are less dense in psychopaths. Image: Kent Kiehl


WIRED: You write in the book about your testimony for the defense (http://news.sciencemag.org/2009/11/fmri-evidence-used-murder-sentencing) in the death penalty hearing for Brian Dugan, the psychopathic serial killer who almost got you in trouble with the TSA. Is the neuroscience really ready for use in individual cases?

Kiehl: It depends on the context. The evidence is pretty convincing that their brains are different, the question is whether it’s mitigating or not. As an attorney, I think you’d only want to bring up an issue like psychopathy if the only question before the jury was life or death. That was the context in the Dugan case. All he’s going to be doing is going back to his cell for the next 15-20 years [the jury apparently first returned a life sentence, then changed it to a death sentence, which was converted back to life in prison when Illinois abolished the death penalty in 2011].

But I don’t think it makes sense at all to use psychopathy as a mitigating factor in a juvenile first time offender or that type of context. There’s a potential double-edged sword. There’s a possibility a prosecutor could say, well if his brain is different, doesn’t that mean there’s a higher risk he’ll reoffend, and how would you change it?

WIRED: Can psychopaths change?

Kiehl: I’m so encouraged by the pioneering work that’s occurring at places like the Mendota Juvenile Treatment Center in Wisconsin, where people are taking high risk youths [who show signs of developing psychopathic traits] and treating them with various intensive programs to try to reduce the odds that they’ll reoffend.

The treatments that seem to be making a big difference emphasize positive reinforcement rather than punishment. Yes, they’re incarcerated at the time and that’s their punishment for the crimes they’ve done, but the facilities instead of only punishing them when they do something bad actually reward them when they do something good. If they interact positively with staff they’re given a small reward, like maybe a video game in their cell for the weekend. Similarly, with this segment of the population, if you use positive reinforcement they’re much more likely to do what you want them to do.

WIRED: Does it really make sense to devote the resources for intensive therapy to such a small minority?

Kiehl: If you look at just the published literature on the Mendota Juvenile Treatment Center, for every $10,000 the state of Wisconsin has invested on that program, it returned over $70,000 in reduced incarceration and criminal justice costs in the next four years. Boys that go through the treatment stop accumulating infractions that lengthen their sentence. When they get out, they stay out longer and they commit less violent crime, which is the most expensive kind of crime from a societal perspective.

WIRED: If we already have interventions that work, why do we need all the brain research?

Kiehl: The current programs aren’t perfect. They reduce violent recidivism by 50 percent. But 10 to 15 percent of kids still reoffended violently, despite the best psychological treatment. What the brain science might do is help inform the cognitive treatment process so maybe you could determine that the easy to treat kids might be ready for release after six months, but these other kids need a full year or more of treatment. You might be able to use the neuroscience to improve the decision making (http://www.wired.com/2013/03/brain-scans-predict-which-criminals-will-reoffend/). That’s the sort of thing we’re hoping to do.

Bob
10th May 2014, 17:19
:bump2:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0015247/

Current practice

Healthcare services

Most people with antisocial personality disorder in the community remain undiagnosed and untreated (Department of Health, 2003). They do not come into contact with mental health services and often do not perceive any need for treatment of their personality problems.

Some people with the disorder may seek treatment for comorbid mental health disorders, including anxiety and depression, but whether they have a formal diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder or not, they may nevertheless be excluded from services because of their personality disorder or the mistaken belief that they will not be able to benefit from treatment. People with antisocial personality disorder may also make limited use of inpatient services in a crisis but are unlikely to be offered or engage in long-term treatment.

In contrast to mental health services, a significant number of people with antisocial personality disorder are treated by drug and alcohol services in both the statutory and non-statutory sector.

Here the focus on treatment will be on the drug or alcohol misuse not the personality problem.

Health services treating people specifically for their antisocial personality disorder are largely limited to specialist healthcare services such as forensic services. However, even within forensic services specific provision for antisocial personality disorder is underdeveloped.

At the very severe end of the spectrum the recent development of the Dangerous and Severe Personality Disorder Service (Home Office, 1997) has seen the establishment of new units in two special hospitals (Rampton and Broadmoor) and two high secure prisons (HMP Frankland and HMP Whitemoor).

The criminal justice system

The large majority of people receiving interventions for antisocial personality disorder and related problems will be in the criminal justice system, with the interventions provided either by the probation or prison services.

The explicit aim of these interventions is to reduce offending behaviour.

These interventions are highly manualised and subject to stringent quality assurance and auditing (T3 Associates, 2003). Whether individuals in the criminal justice system receive interventions will depend on a range of factors including the availability of places on offending behaviour programmes in the institution or probation service, the type and length of their sentence (as this may or may not facilitate their enrolment in a programme), and, if they are in prison, whether they voluntarily choose to enrol on a programme.

The majority of psychological interventions delivered in the criminal justice system are cognitive behavioural and largely based on social learning theory, a development of behavioural learning models that has been adapted to take account of findings from cognitive and developmental psychology (Bandura, 2001).

These interventions include: behaviour modification; relaxation training; systematic desensitisation; social skills training; problem-solving therapy; cognitive therapy; and moral reasoning or moral reconation therapy. Virtually all of these methods have been employed in efforts to reduce offending behaviour and this represents the largest research base of evidence for interventions with offenders. The literature has been reviewed in a number of meta-analyses (for example, Lipton et al., 2002; Landenberger & Lipsey, 2005; Tong & Farrington, 2006; Lipsey et al., 2007).

Beyond the health and criminal justice system interventions, the provision of care and support for people with antisocial personality disorder is also very limited.

As they may cause disruption and a threat to staff or other services users, people with antisocial personality disorder may find themselves excluded from a range of services that might otherwise support them in the community (including during transition from the care of the criminal justice system to the community), such as housing, welfare and employment services.

Bob
13th May 2014, 22:01
Charles Rangel speaks up - Maybe a separate thread, but maybe relevant depending on how one reads into this article..

From Politics Early and Often,

"Charles Rangel wants psych testing for entire GOP"

"After Karl Rove caused a stir when he questioned whether Hillary Clinton had a "traumatic brain injury," Democratic New York Rep. Charles Rangel went on the attack against Republicans.

"He said that if the GOP is going to make health be an issue during elections, then all GOP candidates, or as he called them, "potential patients" should be subjected to psychiatric evaluations.

“If we are going into the psychiatric evaluations of potential candidates, then the Republican Party, they’re completely out of business,” the Democratic congressman on MSNBC’s “Jansing & Co.” “Because the potential patients that they put up for president of the United States was embarrassing to me as a Democrat.”


http://www.clevelandleader.com/files/styles/large/public/field/image/charlesrangel.jpg?itok=TIK5Hgp1

links:
http://politics.suntimes.com/article/washington/charles-rangel-wants-psych-testing-entire-gop/tue-05132014-348pm

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/22611

http://rangel.house.gov/

Hervé
13th June 2014, 13:11
From: Being a Prison Guard Imprisoned Me (http://henrymakow.com/2014/06/musings-of-a-prison-guard-faci.html):


[...]

Here's a little something that's kind of off-topic; A number of years ago I was supervising a crew of eight inmates doing a special project. When lunch arrived we all sat around a table and began to eat. We were laughing and joking when it suddenly occurred to me that all eight of the men were in prison for murder.

The thought took my breath away for a moment but then I had to chuckle.... if someone had told me that someday I would [be] having lunch with a bunch of convicted murderers, I would have called them a liar.

The interesting thing about it was, I never felt afraid, intimidated or threatened by any of them. In fact, most murderers are very easy to supervise. They usually mind their own business and don't get mixed up in prison politics. It's the druggies and sex offenders who are the most challenging. They are the most manipulative of all inmates.
----

Hervé
24th July 2014, 10:46
Of course... who has the means to start it first...

U.S. Military Seeks To Brain Scan Troops For "Signs of Potential Betrayal" (http://www.activistpost.com/2014/07/us-military-seeks-to-brain-scan-troops.html)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kBmPAVoqA1c/U8ffwvbF8tI/AAAAAAAAd8U/SllHHCvnnfs/s1600/QEEG-Brain-Scan.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kBmPAVoqA1c/U8ffwvbF8tI/AAAAAAAAd8U/SllHHCvnnfs/s1600/QEEG-Brain-Scan.jpg)

Nicholas West Activist Post (http://www.activistpost.com/2014/07/us-military-seeks-to-brain-scan-troops.html)

The massive investment in neuroscience undertaken by the U.S. BRAIN (http://www.activistpost.com/2012/02/elite-think-tanks-neuroscience-and.html) project and its sister initiative the Human Brain Project (https://www.humanbrainproject.eu/) is increasingly taking a turn toward the examination of mental health (http://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2014/06/05/obamacare-watch-out-here-comes-predictive-modeling/). In fact, hundreds of European scientists working on the project are threatening a boycott (http://www.activistpost.com/2014/07/boycott-threatened-against-brain.html) because of this direction. In their view, the initial directive was to be more focused on repairing organic injuries and disorders such as Parkinson's (http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Therapies-Parkinsons-Disease-Mischley/dp/1603810439/ref=as_sl_pd_tf_sw?&linkCode=wsw&tag=permacultucom-20), Alzheimer's and physical brain damage sustained in accidents. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder would be one area that might involve the military (http://www.amazon.com/Redeployed-Combat-Veterans-Battle-Within-ebook/dp/B00IIS9UO8/ref=as_sl_pd_tf_sw?&linkCode=wsw&tag=permacultucom-20).

However, there is a disturbing trend developing in law enforcement and medicine to use what has been learned about the human brain in order to adopt pre-crime systems and predictive behavior technology (http://www.activistpost.com/2014/07/predictive-technology-new-tool-to-catch.html).

But could a brain scan become standard procedure to see which troops might be inclined to commit insider attacks?

Troops overseas have been working alongside Iraqi and Afghan troops for years, but a new interest is being taken in evaluating potential extremists who are infiltrating to kill from within.

The numbers of these incidents are statistically low as reported by Defense One, which cites the inside killing of "several troops in recent years." But a former Army counterintelligence agent sees the opportunity to apply new technology that presumably can screen people for mal-intent. The system is called HandShake:

Here’s how the HandShake system works: A U.S. soldier would take, say, an Iraqi officer and outfit the subject with a special helmet that can pick up both electromagnetic signals (EEG) and perform functional near-infrared imaging (fNIRs) which images blood flow changes in the brain. The soldier would put the subject through a battery of tests including image recognition. Most of the pictures in the tests would be benign, but a few would contain scenes that a potential insider threat would remember, possibly including faces, locations or even bomb parts. The key is to select these images very, very carefully to cut down on the potential false positives.

[...]

When you recognize a picture that’s of emotional significance (http://www.amazon.com/What-Every-BODY-Saying-Speed-Reading/dp/0061438294/ref=as_sl_pd_tf_sw?&linkCode=wsw&tag=permacultucom-20) to you, your brain experiences a 200 to 500 microsecond hiccup, during which the electromagnetic activity drops, measurable via EEG. The reaction, referred to as the P300 response, happens too fast for the test subject to control, so the subject can’t game the system.

The fNIR readings back up the EEG numbers. Together, they speak to not only whether or not a subject is a traitor but how likely an individual is to act on potentially criminal or treasonous impulses. The system then runs all the data through what Veritas calls a Friend or Foe Algorithm. The output: the ability to pinpoint an insider’s threat potential with 80 to 90 percent accuracy, according to the company. (Source (http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2014/07/could-brain-scan-protect-us-troops-insider-attacks/88801/)) [emphasis added]
The company, Veritas, has issued the following video promo for their system:


q22vvRbBrX0
It's obviously ironic that this system is intended to be used on people who never should have encountered the U.S. military in the first place, since the U.S. military arrived based on lies. Moreover, to those flagged by such a system, they are clearly open to being tortured under the policies that have been established in the (http://www.amazon.com/Americas-War-Terrorism-Michel-Chossudovsky/dp/0973714719/ref=as_sl_pd_tf_sw?&linkCode=wsw&tag=permacultucom-20) War on Terror world in which we live.

This system comes at an expense in excess of $1 million dollars to deploy and $500,000 per month thereafter, per site, according to the company's founder. Both the monetary cost and the ethical costs should ensure that this technology never sees the light of day. However, the military-industrial complex has a provable track record of caring very little about either.

Note:The article linked below demonstrates how the biometric identification system in Afghanistan already has trickled down to the streets of America. If brain scanning technology is successful overseas, it is guaranteed to show up inside the United States. It's already been proposed for air travel and other applications under the FAST (http://epic.org/privacy/fastproject/) system (Future Attribute Screening Technology). Additionally, with the increased war on whistleblowers (http://www.projectcensored.org/4-obamas-war-whistleblowers/), this would be a wonderful tool for employers to weed out those whose desire is not to undermine, but simply to expose criminality.




Recently by Nicholas West:

In The Internet of Things, YOU Will Be The Key (http://www.activistpost.com/2014/07/in-internet-of-things-you-will-be-key.html)

Carmody
24th July 2014, 12:38
Hopefully people can begin to see where this is going.

To take charge of the drive or impetus behind and in this technology to weed out the very people who want to control others, which is: those who are trying to introduce it. And those who are trying to control and trying to move into tyranny, cannot be allowed to test themselves or test their own peers. To be so scrutinized on a continual basis that the mechanisms, potentials and pathways for such sociopaths to operate, are closed.

That the ones proposing the system are the first under scrutiny and the most observed, in as fail-safe a system as possible. Repeatedly. Until the weeding out is real.

This technology is coming and will be in existence, whether you want it to or not.

So take charge.... so it does not take charge of you. Find a way, a way that is difficult to circumvent.

If it is not understood by as many people as possible, as it comes into being and into shape, then it's roll out or integration with society and humanity will be lopsided and greatly in favor of the tyrannical.

Flash
28th August 2014, 21:21
We may as well revive this thread as well for our newbies who had not had a chance to read it.

Bob
29th August 2014, 20:34
DARPA is still trying to get people to have BRAIN IMPLANTS - see the revived thread on that - they believe the implants will control (FILL IN THE BLANK) - Sociopaths, Psychopaths, and a whole HOST of diseases which require drugs to "treat"..

Flash
29th August 2014, 21:26
Meaning Bob that we will be all categorized for different kinds of implants except the real psychopath at the top of the pyramids.

Bob
29th August 2014, 22:20
Meaning Bob that we will be all categorized for different kinds of implants except the real psychopath at the top of the pyramids.

what level software, what grade of program.. DARPA and IARPA are pushing for this to convince us ALL it is perfectly acceptable because of all the 'good' (ah hemmm) things it is supposed to offer us all.. gd it.. who's program has a right..

Notice the implants on the ears...


http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120610205032/tardis/images/c/c1/Rose_and_pete_fancy.jpg

the ultimate solution - end result - all controlled by "central authority, 'CA' "


http://probicvent.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/cybermen1.jpg

Carmody
14th September 2014, 17:55
And so it begins:


There could be increased numbers of psychopaths in senior managerial positions and high levels of business (http://medicalxpress.com/news/2014-09-psychopaths-senior-managerial-positions-high.html)

A breakthrough by a talented University of Huddersfield student has shown for the first time that people with psychopathic tendencies who have high IQs can mask their symptoms by manipulating tests designed to reveal their personalities. It raises the possibility that large numbers of ruthless risk-takers are able to conceal their level of psychopathy as they rise to key managerial posts.

Carolyn Bate, aged 22, was still an undergraduate when she carried out her groundbreaking research into the links between psychopathy and intelligence, using a range of special tests and analysing the data. She wrote up her findings for the final-year project in her BSc Psychology degree. Not only was she awarded an exceptionally high mark of 85 per cent, her work has also been accepted for publication by the peer-reviewed Journal of Forensic Psychiatry and Psychology – an unusual distinction for an undergraduate.

Carolyn, who has now graduated with First Class Honours, said that her project was triggered when she read about research which showed that while one per cent of the population were categorised as psychopaths, the figure rose to three per cent in the case of business managers.

"I thought that intelligence could be an explanation for this, and it could be a problem if there are increased numbers of psychopaths at a high level in business. The figure could be more than three per cent, because if people are aware they are psychopathic they can also lie – they are quite manipulative and lack empathy. This could have a detrimental effect on our everyday lives," said Carolyn, who added that some researchers have suggested that episodes such as the Wall Street Crash could be blamed on the numbers of psychopaths among decision makers.

She points out that, despite the media's invariably lurid use of the term, there are various categories of psychopath and they are not all prone to physical violence.

"The ones who are at the top of businesses are often charming and intelligent, but with emotional deficits, as opposed to psychopaths who are quite erratic and tend to commit gruesome crimes and are often caught and imprisoned."

Sufficient intelligence to fake their emotional response

To test her ideas, Carolyn assembled 50 participants, mostly from among students, who underwent a series of tests – conducted in strict confidence – beginning with an appraisal of IQ levels using a standard procedure. Then they completed the Levenson Self-Report Psychopathy Scale, which established which participants had either Factor One or Factor Two psychopathic tendencies.

Then Carolyn used the technique of Galvanic Skin Response (GSR). Electrodes were attached to the fingers of participants in order to gauge their reactions to images on a computer screen. They included pictures of crying children, people being threatened and scenes of natural disasters. There were no truly horrific images, but they were of the sort that would shock a completely normal person. However, a person with Factor One psychopathic tendencies – the sort more likely to become a business manager – would display little or no emotional response; while a Factor Two psychopath would demonstrate a heightened response due to excitement.

Carolyn found that the GSR responses among her participants were much as she would have predicted – except for the fact that it was only those with lower levels of intelligence who displayed the expected levels of excitement.

The conclusion is that those with higher IQs had sufficient intelligence to fake their emotional response, making it more difficult to detect their condition. This is the discovery that means Carolyn has made an original contribution to research in the field.

She has contemplated the implications and whether or not it is important to develop new procedures to screen out psychopathic people who are in line for top business posts.

"Perhaps businesses do need people who have the same characteristics as psychopaths, such as ruthlessness. But I suspect that some form of screening does need to take place, mainly so businesses are aware of what sort of people they are hiring," she says.

Having graduated in psychology, Carolyn – who is from Leeds and attended Abbey Grange Academy in West Park – is now heading in a different direction. She returns to the University of Huddersfield for a year in order to acquire a Postgraduate Certificate in Education, with the goal of becoming a maths teacher.

But she retains the fascination for psychology that led her to study the subject at degree level and she praises her University of Huddersfield tutors, including Dr Daniel Boduszek, Senior Lecturer in Criminal Psychology, who supervised her final-year project, now to be published. "I am really grateful to Dan, who was an excellent tutor"

Carmody
14th September 2014, 18:04
If a person has ever run a business that has a sales force, they quickly come to understand that one NEVER lets the sales people drive the direction and actions of the company. For down that path lies disaster. The unenlightened non-world encompassing, projected ego and view -- this is why you hired the salesman. Their drive, their hunger. This is also why they have to be watched and kept within strict limits, for their qualities are disastrous, in the final analysis, for the people they work with/for... and for the rest of the world.

Now, imagine a company, for example, like Goldman Sachs. One that is pure salesman, for the salesman. That is not only a recipe for disaster but is in actuality a pure and simple human disaster. Like attracts like, so they run in packs. Financial corporations, are definitely on that list.

Carmody
3rd April 2015, 16:54
Someone asked me about (in an email) about some folks who had, in their awakening process, been mishandled by psychiatry. (http://in5d.com/this-mans-spiritual-awakening-was-labeled-as-psychotic-by-a-psychiatrist/) What I thought of the subject of this diagnosis via psychiatry. This is my quick reply:


The nature of awakening involves forms of reaching the limits of cognition and mind itself. ie, a re-arrangement of self at the core levels, in almost any parameter one can imagine.

Of course psychiatry would be threatened by such a thing.

Psychiatry would drug, incarcerate, and label all Buddhist monks as clinically insane.

Psychiatry is a mechanism of a lower set of intelligence (creation of a lower set of self recognition and cognition/consideration), it would even see (due to this lower intelligence origin and cast/view) highly intelligent people ---- as clinically insane.

However, psychiatry is smart enough to be clever, which makes it very dangerous. Just like the similarly positioned IQ people in finance, politics, corporations, military, and other 'control' mechanisms, like secret societies. Smart enough to see the looming threat contained in raised intelligence that threatens their position. Smart enough to confound the rise in intelligence of the common people. Smart enough to see how it threatens their self created position.

But not smart enough, not quick enough, not mentally clear enough to grasp, to see that they are ultimately insane and in a bubble. They see the bubble of those lower on the intelligence pole than they are. They refuse, like that lower set, to see that they themselves are a bubble.... manipulating a sub-bubble.

https://brainsize.wordpress.com/2014/07/16/forget-iq-scores-a-shocking-new-scale-for-measuring-intelligence/'

Psychiatry is even seen, by some folks, as a control mechanism to prevent the ideas and ideals proposed by higher intelligence, from ever reaching and elevating the intelligence of the average person. Like some sort of a block on people so they can't gain personal freedoms, and have no capacity to advance themselves.

The article I've shared here, illustrates that the common person, the 100IQ person, would never see it being enacted or even consider it's reality, 'in a million years'.

That a person with an IQ of 180-200, could walk circles around 100IQ people..at a speed of 250,000 to 1 million times faster, in 'getting it', whatever the given thing or mental consideration is.

Let's say I've got an IQ of 180, which, in my better moments of clarity and health, is a plausible number (in some creative areas). taking the study about the idea of 'speed of intelligence', lets say I get or understand a given thing in 'one week. Seven days.

A person with an IQ of 100 would take 4795 years to 'get it'.... a multiplier of 250,000 over that one week. (according to the shown chart from the article)

Essentially, that the 100 IQ person, would never 'get it'. Not going to happen, in general.

As for elevating one's intelligence (awakening, etc), it is subject to misunderstanding by the person, and misunderstanding by psychiatry. this, due to it having elements of severe depression and severe elevation/elation. The mind is literally coming apart and then reforming into new shapes, even as the idea of self and the 'I' are living inside of it.

Electrochemically, the mind is breaking down,and also forming, all at the same time, usually, sinusoidally, a little being broken away and a little being formed,and so on. moments of depressive self realization then moments of extremely elevating self realization. Which is physically taxing, due to the connectivity of body and mind. all forms of bodily perception are going to be skewed and shifted and misunderstood during this re-alignment or re-creation of self. Cyclic bouts of insanity and ultra-clarity are part of the growth pattern, an inescapable aspect of it's function. Realizing this is part of what mitigates the lows of depression and seeming insanity in self and overall perception of reality.

Self elevation becomes possible, when IQ's in general, increase to the point of about 120IQ or so, then the thing, with a bit of prodding, can 'take off' as it were and go to greater and greater intelligence and knowledge/knowing. Note that as people reach the IQ point of near that sort of "120') number, the emergent children of modern times, that they are all being drugged out and hit with massive levels of vaccines, all basically stunting their growth. (never mind the environmental wreckage)

Psychiatry is trying to control and tear down humanity's natural evolution, from what I can see. And that's the mundane answer, it is actually more complex than that. Psychiatry is a smaller bubble being controlled by a larger bubble of greater knowing, to do the bidding of the larger bubble of intelligence, to dumb down and control the masses. Psychiatry, in general, is too self-unaware to understand what it is doing. to understand that it is doing the bidding of something, that is, in my opinion, very dark and nefarious.

That humanity is being split into intelligence groupings along the lines of the well known book 'brave new world'. What is being done... is the potential in and of anyone born into a 100IQ atmosphere and culture... is being purposely curtailed down into a permanence of that 'level'.

that we seem to be evolving, on the grander global scale into worker class, control class (politics, police, military, etc), and upper management directive class.

so, in conclusion, it is not really about awakening (regarding these popular culture outward signs), but what is being done to damage the overall elevation situation that is happening in humanity. being done as a backlash, a 'damage control' via directed damage being done to the population, by that control class..in the name and by bidding of the the upper management mechanism. The upper management being probably 150iq and up, but possibly very sociopathic.

This is due to the sociopath being prominent in the control class, ie police, politics, finance and so on. The sociopath is prominent due to the way that the mind works, regarding emotions and emotional entanglement.

The first group above average intelligence that is not cognitively blocked or controlled by emotions, is the sociopath, or ones more devoid of emotional involvement. this lack of emotional involvement creates some forms of cognition and clarity so they can see around things that the average person does not, but not much beyond that.

This effect moves up to the next level, regarding it's 'infiltration'. that it saturates the control level of society... and also involves the upper management level.

That unrecognized sociopath tendencies is part of the control mechanism on humanity ..and also a large component that is leading to it's destruction via it's control by a more elevated 'other' class.

Again, in final analysis, that overall human awakening is being controlled by a control and management class of self appointed 'leaders', and so on. Ie, a tightly controlled and dark form of human or even 'other' parasitism and cannibalism as a blight in and of humanity, one that is twisting humanity very horribly.

That the Stalins and the Hitlers and the Churchills of the world,... are just the sign, the spoor of the control mechanism hiding in the backdrop.

So no, I don't give a rats ass about any form of announcement of psychiatry.... as... it may understand some aspects of brain chemistry....but beyond that basic point, it is as blank to the whole cohesive reality of human life as a hammer and nail is to understanding multidimensional physics. Psychiatry can be utterly meaningless and a near total home and life wrecker, as it deals with control of symptoms. It's suppositional projections into causal analysis can be and many times are horribly wrong. A wrongness that is powerfully directed, due to it's involvements in hidden mechanisms, like military, politics, industry, pharmaceuticals, and so on..

Flash
3rd April 2015, 18:22
you summed it up within one post. About every sentence you wrote is to be read and pondered on, because it has its own truth in itself, it stands by itself. Then, when contextualised in larger views, the whole target of all the control mecanism in place, could be brain scans, morgellons and chemtrails, vaccines, bad schools, TV programs, etc. makes sense. The complete control of the unaware masses, kept below an intelligence level that would allow them to see and evolve.

And yes, evolution means complete reorganisation of the brain and even the body.

Why this control? Because if the ordinary man evolve, at and IQ of 150 or more (which I believe those top sociopaths have, having had all the chances and tech to develop it), we would in fact be Superior to them, because of the empathy we carry, yet we would not be limited by our own emotional self impose control anymore. We would see through.

The most filled with fear ever are those control freaks - they have no emotions, but do fear to the point where they do not even know and cannot discern how much fear they carry within. I include here cabal, even Dracs if they exist.

My question therefore is how come my brother or other very bright people I know do not see through yet?

This whole situation is utterly sick, but utterly true.

Carmody
3rd April 2015, 18:30
The answer, tends to look something like this:



I agree that time is a passage of moments, like a motion picture passing before a lens. That is the human condition we all are trapped in a bubble of NOW, every time one stops long enough to examine one frame or put anything on pause. its always now. People talk about ancients, no matter how fare back you go millions or billions or trillions or eons before concepts of time and movement one can not escape the eternal moment.

It's like trying to find the screen your seeing this screen on in your head. Where is seeing what your seeing seen? Is seeing just a thought? or just a perception of trillions of brain cells firing all in the same moment. So where is this sight your seeing in this moment. awareness you now say? Then one moment built on the next is just a construct of moments real or none real makes no difference, "What is always was" what was always will be, in the now.

Constructs with out end, its only were the lens of perception is focused is how this computer and our brain lay's it just in front of us to view. who is the watcher on this side of the looking glass. All ways ever present the part of us that's not part of this world but in it? this is why so many say time is an illusion. find the screen your seeing this screen on. then the illusion may take shape as just presumption.


Look at deep Space, where is time with out a reference point , like up - down - right or left. it will exist only if we look at it. thoughts only make it so..........

Time fly's when not looked at. Coma no passage of thought, so time stops for that individual, One can only remember back into child hood as fare as the concept of the passage of time is learned. at the moment when your parents said to you wait ! and your reaction to it was Cry. wait what is wait? all you knew was now, and your need is now. and all your thinking was about the now.

Time in the mind, and ego in the mind, reflection in the mind, anticipation in emotions and thought formation in and of ego's circle of being ,bubble of being, envelope of being, etc... all occurred at almost the exact same moment..in our youth. That first moment of 'I', that first murmurings of the 'internal voice'.

(I still remember the exact moment it happened in my mind. The whole sequence and the days, the weather, where, how, all of it)

They are tied to one another, ego being the I, the internal voice, keeper of thought formation as tied to the record of time. Thus, it is the projector of, the formative point of future as creation, due to being the record of 'past events' for the given self.

ego, reflection, memory, history, projection....emotion and thought formation dictated by that set... all as one.

And this crap is in the driver's seat.... for the vast bulk of humanity.

I'm not a 'religious' person, but god help us all.

Being unrealized, that is what makes it dangerous, as it is confused as being the self.... when it is just the body's collective highest level biological function.

The psychology of the situation dictates that the persons of the greater bubble than the masses have more levers to pull on, more attempts to make, more switches to flip, due to having a bigger envelope of being.

Within that envelope, all avenues will be exhausted, in the extreme, before they turn and face any form of change in the self.

The ego sees to that, in how it forms thoughts... as the finger points directly at the ego system of highest bodily function, and that ego system will protect itself from your interference, right up to the point of death of the body, protect itself in extreme ways. It only lets go at the point of dying.

It will contemplate the death of all things and all world and world representation, before it can even come close to the idea of threatening the self. The ego runs on emotional thought formation, and if no empathy exists in the given person..... then it's run on fear and desire.

In one area of thought, this is a biological creation, this human body thing. That it is NOT of natural origin, it is a worker breed gone wild..... and the normal system of incarnation is trying to convert itself back. Or that someone or some group is trying to make it that way.

Thus we get this twisted growth, this twisted insanity being blocked by the programming system that came before, that programming system for a biological worker system. The ego system. A hybrid mess, reverting back to where it should be, which is going to be painful and messy.

This is where the story gets into the whole dimensional soul inclusion/war thing which is probably for a different thread... Such a tack or direction, would take this thread's normal perception envelope in the philosophical ditch, regarding the bulk of people it is attempting to reach.

Selkie
3rd April 2015, 18:33
Just had a thought.

The prisons systems of the world, could move from imprisonment, to actual rehabilitation.

To brain-scan every entry, and then place them in designated areas, according to their wiring type. To separate the true sociopath, from the rest of the prison population.

The rest of the population will immediately settle down and then one can move toward actual and real rehabilitation of those who can be rehabilitated.

Right now, the mess is so bad, in most prisons and most countries, that the sociopaths, the true ones, are so bad, that they end up creating a permanent mess inside of those prisons.

With the brain-scanning and proper placement, the ability to reduce the prison population will be able to emerge from said mess. And that the true group who, by their wiring, cannot be rehabilitated, they can be properly contained. A sociopath can fool people, as that is part of their trick, to fit in, when they know they are different. They can't fool the brain-scan. YES, we can identify sociopathy in brain scans. Very much so.

This is is eminently doable and in many a country and case...poses no break in privacy and rights, as we are already dealing with people who are wards of the state.

Those prisoners who want to be in a safer population which is easier to work with and can be rehabilitated and every effort put into them....would VOLUNTEER for the brain scan process.

Which, incidentally, is probably a decently large percentage of the population of the given prison. Volunteers would be there, in spades, looking to get the hell out of that nightmare, for all the right reasons.

Cost? in the USA, the most expensive place in the world, for medical hardware and it's use? About $1100US, right now, per scan.

Which is an absolute pittance for the reward and change it brings.

Part of the aim of this, is to show that it will work.

The end result is to take those successes...and turn to testing for sociopathic wiring, to testing for that..in people in politics, power, finance and military, and so on.

Hell, I'd actually have it on my resume:

"Tested to be nil for sociopathic wiring, by accredited agency so and so". Another form of being bonded.

Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant :clap2::yo:

araucaria
3rd April 2015, 18:57
Just had a thought.

The prisons systems of the world, could move from imprisonment, to actual rehabilitation.

To brain-scan every entry, and then place them in designated areas, according to their wiring type. To separate the true sociopath, from the rest of the prison population.

The rest of the population will immediately settle down and then one can move toward actual and real rehabilitation of those who can be rehabilitated.

Right now, the mess is so bad, in most prisons and most countries, that the sociopaths, the true ones, are so bad, that they end up creating a permanent mess inside of those prisons.

With the brain-scanning and proper placement, the ability to reduce the prison population will be able to emerge from said mess. And that the true group who, by their wiring, cannot be rehabilitated, they can be properly contained. A sociopath can fool people, as that is part of their trick, to fit in, when they know they are different. They can't fool the brain-scan. YES, we can identify sociopathy in brain scans. Very much so.

This is is eminently doable and in many a country and case...poses no break in privacy and rights, as we are already dealing with people who are wards of the state.

Those prisoners who want to be in a safer population which is easier to work with and can be rehabilitated and every effort put into them....would VOLUNTEER for the brain scan process.

Which, incidentally, is probably a decently large percentage of the population of the given prison. Volunteers would be there, in spades, looking to get the hell out of that nightmare, for all the right reasons.

Cost? in the USA, the most expensive place in the world, for medical hardware and it's use? About $1100US, right now, per scan.

Which is an absolute pittance for the reward and change it brings.

Part of the aim of this, is to show that it will work.

The end result is to take those successes...and turn to testing for sociopathic wiring, to testing for that..in people in politics, power, finance and military, and so on.

Hell, I'd actually have it on my resume:

"Tested to be nil for sociopathic wiring, by accredited agency so and so". Another form of being bonded.

Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant :clap2::yo:
Agreed…
…but, you need to get legislation past the non-imprisoned sociopathic majority who, apart from writing the laws, profit by having a high prison population and more generally are against the idea of saving public money, since the public coffers are designed to be looted and the loot goes straight into their pockets.

Not a negative comment, just pinpointing the challenge (and thanks Carmody for bumping this important thread of yours).

Selkie
3rd April 2015, 19:05
Just had a thought.

The prisons systems of the world, could move from imprisonment, to actual rehabilitation.

To brain-scan every entry, and then place them in designated areas, according to their wiring type. To separate the true sociopath, from the rest of the prison population.

The rest of the population will immediately settle down and then one can move toward actual and real rehabilitation of those who can be rehabilitated.

Right now, the mess is so bad, in most prisons and most countries, that the sociopaths, the true ones, are so bad, that they end up creating a permanent mess inside of those prisons.

With the brain-scanning and proper placement, the ability to reduce the prison population will be able to emerge from said mess. And that the true group who, by their wiring, cannot be rehabilitated, they can be properly contained. A sociopath can fool people, as that is part of their trick, to fit in, when they know they are different. They can't fool the brain-scan. YES, we can identify sociopathy in brain scans. Very much so.

This is is eminently doable and in many a country and case...poses no break in privacy and rights, as we are already dealing with people who are wards of the state.

Those prisoners who want to be in a safer population which is easier to work with and can be rehabilitated and every effort put into them....would VOLUNTEER for the brain scan process.

Which, incidentally, is probably a decently large percentage of the population of the given prison. Volunteers would be there, in spades, looking to get the hell out of that nightmare, for all the right reasons.

Cost? in the USA, the most expensive place in the world, for medical hardware and it's use? About $1100US, right now, per scan.

Which is an absolute pittance for the reward and change it brings.

Part of the aim of this, is to show that it will work.

The end result is to take those successes...and turn to testing for sociopathic wiring, to testing for that..in people in politics, power, finance and military, and so on.

Hell, I'd actually have it on my resume:

"Tested to be nil for sociopathic wiring, by accredited agency so and so". Another form of being bonded.

Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant :clap2::yo:
Agreed…
…but, you need to get legislation past the non-imprisoned sociopathic majority who, apart from writing the laws, profit by having a high prison population and more generally are against the idea of saving public money, since the public coffers are designed to be looted and the loot goes straight into their pockets.

Not a negative comment, just pinpointing the challenge (and thanks Carmody for bumping this important thread of yours).
Oh, for sure, and that would be a real obstacle to overcome. But the PTB are always saying (even if they don't mean it) that they want to reduce the prison population, make prisons safer, facilitate rehabilitation, etc., etc. Well, I say lets take them at their word, and hold them to it. Not that it would be easy, but if they fight the idea, then it would be one of those brilliant "dumb" questions to ask WHY.

Carmody
3rd April 2015, 19:15
Which embodies the entire why of the thread. That the cow herd aspect of the masses would understand this and in this context, force the reform forward, and thus produce the desired domino effect.

Which is part of the why of the power and control systems in the world, why they are screeching like insane harpies bent on utter destruction (total forced war) and the erasure of history and record..record which hides their hand in all of history... which is their normal method of hiding their influence.

araucaria
3rd April 2015, 19:25
Oh, for sure, and that would be a real obstacle to overcome. But the PTB are always saying (even if they don't mean it) that they want to reduce the prison population, make prisons safer, facilitate rehabilitation, etc., etc. Well, I say lets take them at their word, and hold them to it. Not that it would be easy, but if they fight the idea, then it would be one of those brilliant "dumb" questions to ask WHY.
Yes, Silkie, but this is just one issue among a backlog of similar issues. The fact is that, if you don’t live in somewhere like Venezuela, you will never have seen in your lifetime a government capable of delivering on just about anything. This is a structural problem with government, whether or not you adhere to a cabal scenario. They don’t fight ideas, they don’t keep their word, they just do their thing. This is what makes government per se sociopathic, regardless of personnel. Carmody’s idea of starting just with the prison system is intended to get round this stumbling-block, but it would only work from the grassroots up. Imagine a one-off prison director with such notions: he would implement them on his own authority and maybe his results would tempt others to follow suit – but probably only for the wrong reasons, e.g. financial profit.

David Wilcock has reported on research into the treatment of various items in a pyramid structure, which sharpens razor blades and affects salt in a way that has a beneficial effect on prison inmates. Now if you could get suppliers of table salt say to store their salt at some stage in a pyramid structure instead of a normal silo, this could have a positive effect on the whole population, not by identifying but by offsetting any problem cases: if it works on prisoners, it should work on politicians as well. This is the sort of minor operation on a minor commodity with a major outcome that could be decide by some very minor official or executive and that just might work.

Selkie
3rd April 2015, 19:47
Oh, for sure, and that would be a real obstacle to overcome. But the PTB are always saying (even if they don't mean it) that they want to reduce the prison population, make prisons safer, facilitate rehabilitation, etc., etc. Well, I say lets take them at their word, and hold them to it. Not that it would be easy, but if they fight the idea, then it would be one of those brilliant "dumb" questions to ask WHY.
Yes, Silkie, but this is just one issue among a backlog of similar issues. The fact is that, if you don’t live in somewhere like Venezuela, you will never have seen in your lifetime a government capable of delivering on just about anything. This is a structural problem with government, whether or not you adhere to a cabal scenario. They don’t fight ideas, they don’t keep their word, they just do their thing. This is what makes government per se sociopathic, regardless of personnel. Carmody’s idea of starting just with the prison system is intended to get round this stumbling-block, but it would only work from the grassroots up. Imagine a one-off prison director with such notions: he would implement them on his own authority and maybe his results would tempt others to follow suit – but probably only for the wrong reasons, e.g. financial profit.

I know, and I agree. We are really very far gone, now. Maybe such a program would have to wait until after the collapse. But Carmody's post has the beginnings of a solution to our problem, even if it has to wait for more auspicious times.

Carmody
3rd April 2015, 20:07
As Bronson said, "only at the point of dyin'" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyvzfyqYm_s) (when Frank asks what he is after, from being frank's dark shadow, all those years) (warning, spoiler!). Most scenarios have the world choking the controllers to death, banging their heads on the floor, with absolutely NO way out for them. Zero. All avenues of any kind, gone.

that is the kind of condition it takes for a human avatar to 'give'. For an ego to 'give' (way), for it to let go. You have to die inside your mind. Literally, with zero potential for a way out. Not one ****ing straw. Nothing.

Until that point, and even within it, if there is even a whisper in the mind of a way for another single heartbeat, the ego system will demand that it remain in total animal level control of all thought formation.

This is why the Buddhists and others say that 'change comes from within'. It's due to the extreme level morbid bloodletting finality of the ego/body/emotional control grid inside of each and every avatar/human.

In some ways, it has to be like that, otherwise the avatar system would not work. Rubber baby buggy bumpers.

This thread is about the kind of disarming, the kind of backing down that can take place, and defuse the situation from being a total morbidity confrontation. As this is avatar against avatar, external projection against external projection...and that has a nearly zero chance of a equitable outcome.

The backdoor of disarming the control levers -the sociopath foot soldiery.... is the deal, here.

Selkie
3rd April 2015, 20:50
Hopefully, their desire for self-preservation will lead to their own downfall.

p.s. Once Upon a Time in the West; one of the best movies ever made.

araucaria
4th April 2015, 07:37
Hopefully, their desire for self-preservation will lead to their own downfall.

p.s. Once Upon a Time in the West; one of the best movies ever made.
Or The Lord of the Rings (the book):



The illusion of a crowning moment of ultimate achievement is actually the cause of your undoing. This is the message at the end of The Lord of the Rings where the actual final clutching of the coveted ring sends both Gollum and the ring toppling into the abyss. There is no ultimate prize, just what people in business call milestones.

ulli
4th April 2015, 12:14
A new generation is already here who will be so astute and perceptive that they will easily recognize the sociopaths among them. Just give them 15 more years to become adults. Maybe even less.

Carmody
24th June 2015, 13:28
It looks like it is finally beginning to take effect....


America’s Slave Empire (http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/americas-slave-empire)

The resistance movement against US prisons continues to grow.


“We have to shut down the prisons,” Council, known as Kinetik, one of the founders of the Free Alabama Movement, told me by phone from the Holman Correctional Facility in Escambia County, Ala. He has been in prison for 21 years, serving a sentence of life without parole. “We will not work for free anymore. All the work in prisons, from cleaning to cutting grass to working in the kitchen, is done by inmate labor. [Almost no prisoner] in Alabama is paid. Without us the prisons, which are slave empires, cannot function. Prisons, at the same time, charge us a variety of fees, such as for our identification cards or wrist bracelets, and [impose] numerous fines, especially for possession of contraband. They charge us high phone and commissary prices. Prisons each year are taking larger and larger sums of money from the inmates and their families. The state gets from us millions of dollars in free labor and then imposes fees and fines. You have brothers that work in kitchens 12 to 15 hours a day and have done this for years and have never been paid.”

“We do not believe in the political process,” said Ray, who spoke from the St. Clair Correctional Facility in Springville, Ala., and who is serving life without parole. “We are not looking to politicians to submit reform bills. We aren’t giving more money to lawyers. We don’t believe in the courts. We will rely only on protests inside and outside of prisons and on targeting the corporations that exploit prison labor and finance the school-to-prison pipeline. We have focused our first boycott on McDonald’s. McDonald’s uses prisoners to process beef for paddies and package bread, milk, chicken products. We have called for a national Stop Campaign against McDonald’s. We have identified this corporation to expose all the others. There are too many corporations exploiting prison labor to try and take them all on at once.”

“We are not going to call for protests outside of statehouses,” Ray went on. “Legislators are owned by corporations. To go up there with the achy breaky heart is not going to do any good. These politicians are in it for the money. If you are fighting mass incarceration, the people who are incarcerated are not in the statehouse. They are not in the parks. They are in the prisons. If you are going to fight for the people in prison, join them at the prison. The kryptonite to fight the prison system, which is a $500 billion enterprise, is the work strike. And we need people to come to the prisons to let guys on the inside know they have outside support to shut the prison down. Once we take our labor back, prisons will again become places for correction and rehabilitation rather than centers of corporate profit.”

Understand that this prison system is interlocked with police, the courts, and the involved corporations...via the extreme penetration of secret society freemasonry in all four.

Problem situations cannot be corrected unless the true question is asked. Hidden mechanisms must be exposed so the scope of the issue/question can be seen.

One could even consider the fulcrum of the affair lies in the condition that almost no single judge in the western system of justice is outside of freemasonry.

I would suspect, but not know, that freemasons might argue that they hold the system from anarchy and collapse. Realistically, the penetration of parasitism within and of freemasony and the given four systems ---says otherwise. Time gives rise to collapse and decay of all systems, especially in the idea of parasitism of sociopaths and psychopaths, as they possess no other motion or state of being. They go to where their food and life --is.

In a hierarchical pyramid system such as freemasonry, one that is hidden and thus not subject to the cleansing influence of observation by the public...it is that - in the scope of the logic of how humans operate...that the passage of time dictates the eventuality that parasitical control of such a system is a near 100% given reality. Given time, all pyramid systems that involve humans fall to this reality. And freemasonry has certainly been given time.

The parasite always believes it is of benefit and importance in systems, it has no other position. Whether it is infiltration of freemasonry or if it is simple delusional tactics in recruiting and the fundamentals of freemasonry, or any other condition or state...this is not important.

The record of what it is, what it brings, is important. And the record states that freemasony represents, binds together...in and of something that is most in appearance to a hidden oligarchical fascism.

If this were not true, we would see evidence, living moving rolling evidence and a record... stating otherwise. We do not.

Again, for the record, I have family members and people I know who are freemasons. They are good people, all of them. Yet the record and flow of freemasonry bears the evidential appearance of being damaged and torn in a way that beggars belief.

There is evidence, historical evidence, and even logic illustrates..the idea that humanity will not be cleansing itself, until secret systems are exposed and those systems go to war with one another in a very public way. The secrecy wall must be broken, the layers of hidden systems must go public...or nothing changes.


"To determine the true rulers of any society, all you must do is ask yourself this question: Who is it that I am not permitted to criticize?" --(apparently misattributed to) Voltaire

Voltaire was apparently raised to the 33rd degree of freemasonry, upon his deathbed. IIRC, Benjamin Franklin was present and involved. The complex misrepresented irony is not wasted upon me.

Flash
24th June 2015, 14:42
A new generation is already here who will be so astute and perceptive that they will easily recognize the sociopaths among them. Just give them 15 more years to become adults. Maybe even less.

The problem is not that the new generation does not recognize sociopaths, they do right away, first glance, already. The problem is now two fold: they recoginize the sociopaths but there is too many sociopatic beings to be handled by a few clear seeing individuals on one hand, the number of sociopatic behavior/beings having increased a lot.

And in those that are not sociopathics, they are often damaged, with ADD, Dyslexia, motor impairments, anything that has been pushed on humans to damage us, therefore the energy and mind organisation to take care of it is not there.

However, one form of resistance is the "passive unmovable" stance. They just won't do anything by force, they passively resist. So a psycho is asking for something, they just do not do it. Which is great to observe.

Selkie
24th June 2015, 15:08
...The problem is now two fold: they recoginize the sociopaths but there is too many sociopatic beings to be handled by a few clear seeing individuals on one hand, the number of sociopatic behavior/beings having increased a lot...

Another aspect of the problem is that psychopaths corrupt any and every system they get into, and they are in all of our systems, as we know.

Carmody
24th June 2015, 15:46
further in the above quoted article:


The three prisoners said that until the prison-industrial complex was dismantled there would be no prison reform. They said books such as Stokely Carmichael’s “Ready for Revolution” and Michelle Alexander’s “The New Jim Crow,” along with the failure of prison reform movements, convinced them that the only hope to battle back against a prison system that contains 25 percent of the world’s prisoners was to organize resistance. And they find no solace in a black president.

“To say that we have a black president does not say anything,” Ray said. “The politicians are the ones who orchestrated this system. They are either directly involved as businessmen—many are already millionaires or billionaires, or they are controlled by millionaires and billionaires. We are not blindsided by titles. We are looking at what is going on behind the scenes. We see a coordinated effort by the Koch brothers, ALEC [the American Legislative Exchange Council] and political action committees that see in prisons a business opportunity. Their goal is to increase earnings. And once you look at it like this, it does not matter if we have a black or white president. That is why the policies have not changed. The laws, such as mandatory minimum [sentences], were put in place by big business so they would have access to cheap labor. The anti-terrorism laws were enacted to close the doors on the access to justice so people would be in prison longer. Big business finances campaigns. Big business writes the laws and legislation. And Obama takes money from these people. He is as vested in this system as they are.”

Now, the 'mandatory minimum sentences' are a thing that Stephen Harper has and is trying hard to bring to Canada.

As well, one of our members was involved in a construction project for 'super-prisons', in Canada. to build the infrastructure for fascist police states in Canada. Yet, there is no call for these prisons, there is no prisoners to put in them.

This means that if a person cannot see the connection of Stephen Harper to Oligarchical fascism in the USA, his direct attempts to institute it fully into Canada, then that person would have to be pretty darned blind.

What we are looking at is the obvious open moves of a hidden system.... of attempting to bring a sociopathic and psychopathic fascist police state into Canada, one originated from and within the USA system.

That, at heart, Stephen Harper, and all he is connected to and move and shifts and does things for..... that he bears the open signs of being a closet fascist.

Keep it simple, in the end. Simple plans work best.

The command and direction appears to be: create the totalitarian north American police state, perpetuate fear in the population to maintain control and a controllable slave state, push war with the east and Russia; and tear down Europe and push it into Russia and china, like cannon fodder (attempt of creating a fate for Europe: control and use it...in one kill shot).


In Nazi Germany the fascists put a certain percentage of the population into jails and used them as a work force..and forced to manufacture and produce 85% of the NAZI military's soft goods.

In the USA, after the fascists and the banks financed the Nazi's in the first place and got their investment back.. in the form of importing vast numbers of Nazi's and Nazi scientists. the same skull & bones/cia/nazi bankers/Illuminati/Freemason crew..that crew has managed to do everything in their power get..now..at this time....in the USA..the same percentage of the population in the jails..and manufacturing ...that wanted 85% of the US military's soft goods. Be it enforced corporate work or enforced government work.



the same fascists started the zero tolerance drug laws, be it democratic, (Rockefeller NY state-70's) or Republican (Regan war on drugs-80's)

What they got:

--massive financing and expansion of the police forces and surveillance programs.

--Massive financing AND privatization of the prison systems. (profit system and outside of government oversight and scrutiny)

--free labor for major corporations tied to government through the military system of awarded contracts. (profit system and outside of government oversight and scrutiny)

--the creation of the DEA to move CIA drugs and money around for the financing of skull & bones black ops programs. (profit system and outside of government oversight and scrutiny)

All of this done literally on the backs of the public, in all ways.

Part of my point is that people n the USA think that they would not be capable of living in a fascist state like the Nazi's had without noticing...... and how could the Germans fall for it? So may people in prison systems and camps, working for the war machine!!

Well guess what, the people in the USA are living that exact same nightmare and just like the Germans....they did not... and are not noticing.

Carmody
15th September 2016, 01:11
One in five CEOs are psychopaths, new study finds (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/psychopaths-ceos-study-statistics-one-in-five-psychopathic-traits-a7251251.html)

Around one in five corporate bosses are psychopaths - a proportion similar to that among prisoners - according to a new study.

Research conducted by forensic psychologist Nathan Brooks from Bond University found 21 per cent of 261 corporated professionals had clinically significant psychopathic traits.

Characteristics such as an inability to empathise, superficiality and insincerity are all associated with the condition.

Mr Brooks said the findings suggested businesses should screen employees according to their personality features, rather than simply their skills.

A type of “successful psychopath” who may be inclined to unethical or illegal practices has been allowed into the top ranks of companies because of the way firms hire, according to Mr Brooks.

Along with researchers Katarina Fritzon of Bond University and Simon Croom of the University of San Diego, Mr Brooks presented the study at the Australian Psychological Society’s annual congress in Melbourne.

"We've looked at around 1,000 people, and the supply chain management study that involved 261 corporate professionals - was the most interesting," he told ABC.

Mr Brookes says that figure "shared similarities to what we would find in a prison population".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's getting there, slowly but surely.....

Please understand that a 'general prison population', in a given prison...is an exceedingly dangerous place to be.

Now imagine putting that crew in control of the future of the world, via global corporatism and it's integration with the same sort of people who are in politics.

We're dealing with people who are clinically proven to be dangerous inhumane nutbars and fascist ones at that.

Flash
15th September 2016, 01:39
I am not surprised one iota. And those psychos do hire obedient minions. And the rest of those companies live in fear of losing their bread and butter, so they remain silent.

Part of the receipe to counter this is certainly individual self respect and self knowledge. And... there is certainly more receipes to find, easy to apply - I have to check in my soul for an answer that could become global, I see no other ways, from higher up to observe the bottom down..

Thanks for reviving this thread. There might be other who will give their ideas and know how - but this is exactly why I wanted to proceed further with the Parkes thread, to find those receipes.


One in five CEOs are psychopaths, new study finds (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/psychopaths-ceos-study-statistics-one-in-five-psychopathic-traits-a7251251.html)

Around one in five corporate bosses are psychopaths - a proportion similar to that among prisoners - according to a new study.

Research conducted by forensic psychologist Nathan Brooks from Bond University found 21 per cent of 261 corporated professionals had clinically significant psychopathic traits.

Characteristics such as an inability to empathise, superficiality and insincerity are all associated with the condition.

Mr Brooks said the findings suggested businesses should screen employees according to their personality features, rather than simply their skills.

A type of “successful psychopath” who may be inclined to unethical or illegal practices has been allowed into the top ranks of companies because of the way firms hire, according to Mr Brooks.

Along with researchers Katarina Fritzon of Bond University and Simon Croom of the University of San Diego, Mr Brooks presented the study at the Australian Psychological Society’s annual congress in Melbourne.

"We've looked at around 1,000 people, and the supply chain management study that involved 261 corporate professionals - was the most interesting," he told ABC.

Mr Brookes says that figure "shared similarities to what we would find in a prison population".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's getting there, slowly but surely.....

Please understand that a 'general prison population', in a given prison...is an exceedingly dangerous place to be.

Now imagine putting that crew in control of the future of the world, via global corporatism and it's integration with the same sort of people who are in politics.

We're dealing with people who are clinically proven to be dangerous inhumane nutbars and fascist ones at that.

Chester
16th March 2017, 02:39
Just had a thought.

The prisons systems of the world, could move from imprisonment, to actual rehabilitation.

To brain-scan every entry, and then place them in designated areas, according to their wiring type. To separate the true sociopath, from the rest of the prison population.

The rest of the population will immediately settle down and then one can move toward actual and real rehabilitation of those who can be rehabilitated.

Right now, the mess is so bad, in most prisons and most countries, that the sociopaths, the true ones, are so bad, that they end up creating a permanent mess inside of those prisons.

With the brain-scanning and proper placement, the ability to reduce the prison population will be able to emerge from said mess. And that the true group who, by their wiring, cannot be rehabilitated, they can be properly contained. A sociopath can fool people, as that is part of their trick, to fit in, when they know they are different. They can't fool the brain-scan. YES, we can identify sociopathy in brain scans. Very much so.

This is is eminently doable and in many a country and case...poses no break in privacy and rights, as we are already dealing with people who are wards of the state.

Those prisoners who want to be in a safer population which is easier to work with and can be rehabilitated and every effort put into them....would VOLUNTEER for the brain scan process.

Which, incidentally, is probably a decently large percentage of the population of the given prison. Volunteers would be there, in spades, looking to get the hell out of that nightmare, for all the right reasons.

Cost? in the USA, the most expensive place in the world, for medical hardware and it's use? About $1100US, right now, per scan.

Which is an absolute pittance for the reward and change it brings.

Part of the aim of this, is to show that it will work.

The end result is to take those successes...and turn to testing for sociopathic wiring, to testing for that..in people in politics, power, finance and military, and so on.

Hell, I'd actually have it on my resume:

"Tested to be nil for sociopathic wiring, by accredited agency so and so". Another form of being bonded.

Thanks to Herve I found this thread.

I have to ask...

After reading this post.. says to me that some assumptions must be held for the points made in the post to be valid.

The first assumption is that one's "brain" permanently defines them throughout their life. This says that no matter who you are, you are either a sociopath or not and that this condition is permanent.

And this then suggests to me a deeper assumption - the assumption that matter is preeminent... as a cosmological metaphysical world view.

What this says to me is that it is an established fact that any human being who at whatever point in their life a test like this is supposed to be valid (I am assuming that testing a 6 month old baby might not show sociopathy whereas later in that being's life, the test might show sociopathy) that failing this test ('fail' to mean that they tested "sociopathic") means that this individual is a threat to all the rest of humanity that passes the test and thus should be separated from the rest until death (or perhaps something else... but that something else is likely what only a sociopath would recommend).

This says that no one can ever fail and ever have any hope of change... ever meaning for the rest of this one natural life.

Now I have read that this is a widely held opinion but I have to ask this one question. What if one single person failed the test (meaning the test deems they are a sociopath) and yet... over years of continued testing, they reached a point where they began to pass the test (meaning they do not test to be a sociopath)... how then would the idea to test for the purpose of identifying and then implementing consequences which would last that individual's entire life ever make sense?

There was a member here named Chicodoodoo who I encountered after he left Avalon who was on a mission to have this sort of testing become mandatory for anyone who might be in a position of power and/or control over others and so I remember going through this whole discussion with him and had these same questions.

And it turned out that what I discovered that was underneath the whole surface discussion of sociopathy was that Chicodoodoo held a metaphysical world view based on materialism. Meaning that the only way the argument for testing and labeling (permanently) would stand up is within the framework of that world view.

What if that world view is wrong? What if consciousness has primacy? What if individuated consciousness is one's core? What if then that core made changes where their physical body (including brain wave patterns) could change?

And what if we decided we would never allow for that?

Who then might actually be the sociopaths?

DNA
16th March 2017, 11:45
The first assumption is that one's "brain" permanently defines them throughout their life. This says that no matter who you are, you are either a sociopath or not and that this condition is permanent.

And this then suggests to me a deeper assumption - the assumption that matter is preeminent... as a cosmological metaphysical world view.


I would like to review the term "sociopath".



Not only is the definition of sociopath complex, but the very word itself is complicated. Scientists and lay people alike use different words for this disorder. I plug sociopath into Google and this is the first thing that pops up.



a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience. Now what exactly do they mean by antisocial?




an·ti·so·cial
ˌan(t)ēˈsōSHəl,ˌanˌtīˈsōSHəl/
adjective
adjective: antisocial; adjective: anti-social


1.
contrary to the laws and customs of society; devoid of or antagonistic to sociable instincts or practices.

Now for myself this makes sense.
I could read that phrase like twenty times and it kind of sings to me.
Contrary to the laws and customs of society.
Now in a nutshell what is so bad about that? Society as a whole is well,,,,not exactly churning out remarkable examples of human beings as of late.
Contrary to the laws and customs of society basically says to me not as easily brainwashed by society as the rest of us are.
And this is where I feel sociopaths are naturally empowered souls entering our world.
Sociopaths are souls who are not so easily brainwashed by society as the rest of us.
For a moment contemplate on what the rules of society are for you and how they manifest in your consciousness.
How do the rules of society control us?
I'll tell you how.
Through fear.
Society keeps it's members in line through intense fear that has been driven into our hearts and minds since we were sucking on our mother's bosom.
This fear becomes a prison, a prison that most of us never break free from though out our entire life.
But sociopaths are not imprisoned as we are.
This prison affects our minds, our hearts, our ability to express ourself and our energy because fear is a huge consumer of energy.
Sociopaths are unencumbered by such.
Natural born sociopaths are often born with a sage like freedom from social constraints, constraints that often take people so long to free themselves from that they are often considered some kind of master, and even then they may not achieve the freedom a natural born sociopath enjoys.
Sociopaths can go wrong, sure. Especially if they are raised wrong and or experienced excessive trauma as a child.
But placed in the right settings sociopaths can actually do an amazing amount of good for the world, capable of affecting great change through challenging and standing up to social norms which may be wrong and or unjust.


I personally feel it would be a detriment to humanity to try and implement some type of method that would remove sociopaths from society. I also believe in soul castes much like the Hindu's do. I believe there are only so many soul types, and that the sociopath is a naturally occurring soul caste that reflects an aspect of God that will not be subjucated so easily.

Carmody
22nd March 2017, 19:51
This is about pendulums and swing. Corrective force, nothing more.

One might try to erase psychopathy and sociopathy from the human race. And ultimately, I think that such an effort would bring harm, yes. Humanity needs range and shortening it does it no favours.

However, extremes and direction shifts that are too far from center (leading to dissolution), do indeed require some form of correction.


Like we see in politics, the fake news push from the actual fake news...what we will find is that the forces that one tries to correct via the thrust of this thread..those forces will try to infiltrate and misuse this sort of idea and methodology. They will do it first, if one does not, and they will do it without the intended public awareness that this thread is attempting to address. I'm saying they will come up with the story first and make sure it is represented with their emplaced memes. to control name, create and supply all analogies and means to a scenario, simply by doing it first.

That's why they had to get on the Fake News bandwagon, and overrun the earlier but smaller efforts, those earlier efforts being aimed against them.

This is a reverse logic 'in your face' tactic that the Israeli press (in my observation) is unbelievably famous for.

The groundwork to keep such an effort Closer to the truth of what needs be, is what is going on here. the saying of it and the fleshing out of it in correct manner, is the deal. First.

Before others lay down fake groundwork, or other similar but 'horrific for humanity' efforts.

As that is what they are going to do. That's what is coming.

So... say it first, say it well.

norman
22nd March 2017, 20:00
Yea Soros calling Trump evil .........

Foreign financed operators calling American sovereignty activists Russian agents.....

ThePythonicCow
22nd March 2017, 20:54
Yea Soros calling Trump evil .........
Well - dang - perhaps we should listen to Soros on this - after all - he is a subject matter expert on the topic of evil </sarcasm>.

Carmody
5th July 2017, 18:18
Brainscans and prisoners: (https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-07-psychopathic-brains-wired-dangerous-violent.html)

Study shows psychopathic brains are wired in a way that can lead to dangerous and violent actions


Josh Buckholtz wants to change the way you think about psychopaths - and he's willing to go to prison to do it.

An Associate Professor of Psychology, Buckholtz is the senior author of a study that relies on brain scans of nearly 50 prison inmates to help explain why psychopaths make poor decisions that often lead to violence or other anti-social behavior.

What they found, he said, is psychopath's brains are wired in a way that leads them to over-value immediate rewards and neglect the future consequences of potentially dangerous or immoral actions. The study is described in a July 5 paper in Neuron.

"For years, we have been focused on the idea that psychopaths are people who cannot generate emotion and that's why they do all these terrible things," Buckholtz said. "But what what we care about with psychopaths is not the feelings they have or don't have, it's the choices they make. Psychopaths commit an astonishing amount of crime, and this crime is both devastating to victims and astronomically costly to society as a whole.

"And even though psychopaths are often portrayed as cold-blooded, almost alien predators, we have been showing that their emotional deficits may not actually be the primary driver of these bad choices. Because it's the choices of psychopaths that cause so much trouble, we've been trying to understand what goes on in their brains when the make decisions that involve trade-offs between the costs and benefits of action.," he continued. "In this most recent paper...we are able to look at brain-based measures of reward and value and the communication between different brain regions that are involved in decision making."

Obtaining the scans used in the study, however, was no easy feat - where most studies face an uphill battle in bringing subjects into the lab, Buckholtz's challenge was in bringing the scanner to his subjects.

The solution came in form of a "mobile" scanner - typically used for cancer screenings in rural areas - that came packed in the trailer of a tractor trailer. After trucking the equipment to a two medium-security prisons in Wisconsin, the team - which included collaborators at the University of Wisconin-Madison and University of New Mexico - would spend days calibrating the scanner, and then work to scan as many volunteers as possible as quickly as possible.
... ... ... ... ... ... ...

The effect was so pronounced, Buckholtz said, that researchers were able to use the degree of connection between the striatum and the prefrontal cortex to accurately predict how many times inmates had been convicted of crimes.

Ultimately, Buckholtz said, his goal is to erase the popular image of psychopaths as incomprehensible, cold-blooded monsters and see them for what they are - everyday humans whose brains are simply wired differently.

"They're not aliens, they're people who make bad decisions," he said. "The same kind of short-sighted, impulsive decision-making that we see in psychopathic individuals has also been noted in compulsive over-eaters and substance abusers. If we can put this back into the domain of rigorous scientific analysis, we can see psychopaths aren't inhuman, they're exactly what you would expect from humans who have this particular kind of brain wiring dysfunction."

Flash
26th July 2017, 15:08
I have been listening to quite a few of the Corbett reports, and I found this guy quite good usually. I do not know why we do not put emphasis a little on his reports.

There is 2 videos on psychopaths and psychopathy traits in societies, full of statistics and comparative, quite interesting, the first video being the most interesting socially, the second for detection of psychopathy


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPf5i84BqcA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UrTcaH6DAk&list=PLWcPDWutsEThIhkhESwRZQpcILlGGfbJY

Flash
26th July 2017, 15:46
Maybe we could write about psychopathy and sociopathy expériences we had in our life, encountering them in our daily life.

Once, I was at a business meeting and a person was sitting beside me, on my left, while looking at a screen, others were on my right and in front of me. I was not comfortable with the person on my left, but that was alright for the job.

Right after the meeting, I had an appointment Schedule for an energetic Healing and hypnotherapy for past lifes or other stuff that would come up.

I got onto the table, and the healer who feels/see the energy fields told me "put yourself straight on the table, you are crooked", to which I answered "true, I feel crooked, to much on the right of my body, but my body is straight on the table" and then I asked "why?" and suddenly it came to me, i had pushed energetic self (not my body) away from the person on my left during the meeting and I remained outside my body, on my right energetically.

As soon as I told that to the healer, I reintegrated my body fully, energically speaking and she could proceed.

Then I went few weeks later to someone else, a wisdom master, and told him the story. He look into the situation and the person who had me push myself out of my body because I was uncomfortable with her around, and he said "my gosh, that person has no heart", meaning the energetic loving heart.

Then he asked me "where is that person from, who are her family" to which I answered that this person is from a very very wealthy family, probably from the bloodline. He answered "oh, I see, sad but it seems that we need those on the planet - with a kind of discontempt sye- which he usually never does". Then I asked what should i do if this happens again and he answered "I go away from these people, I remain far".

That person would pass for a normal person, has a normal family, lives a normal life, yet, those with developed seeing abilities can see the lack of heart, genetically passed on. Those ^people are bred to have no heart.

petra
8th November 2017, 22:58
I think there's something DNA related for sure! I came across someone who found a physical correlation but I can't back that up. That's shaky ground anyway :)

You know what I'd like? A "heart scan". To "see inside people's heart" and know their true motivations.

Carmody
30th June 2018, 17:32
Scientists can predict intelligence from brain scans (https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-06-scientists-intelligence-brain-scans.html)

https://3c1703fe8d.site.internapcdn.net/newman/gfx/news/2018/11-scientistsca.jpg


If you've ever lied about your IQ to seem more intelligent, it's time to fess up. Scientists can now tell how smart you are just by looking at a scan of your brain.

Actually, to be more precise, the scientists themselves aren't looking at your brain scan; a machine-learning algorithm they've developed is.

In a new study, researchers from Caltech, Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, and the University of Salerno show that their new computing tool can predict a person's intelligence from functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) scans of their resting state brain activity. Functional MRI develops a map of brain activity by detecting changes in blood flow to specific brain regions. In other words, an individual's intelligence can be gleaned from patterns of activity in their brain when they're not doing or thinking anything in particular—no math problems, no vocabulary quizzes, no puzzles.

"We found if we just have people lie in the scanner and do nothing while we measure the pattern of activity in their brain, we can use the data to predict their intelligence," says Ralph Adolphs (Ph.D. '92), Bren Professor of Psychology, Neuroscience, and Biology, and director and Allen V. C. Davis and Lenabelle Davis Leadership Chair of the Caltech Brain Imaging Center.

To train their algorithm on the complex patterns of activity in the human brain, Adolphs and his team used data collected by the Human Connectome Project (HCP), a scientific endeavor funded by the National Institutes of Health (NIH) that seeks to improve understanding of the many connections in the human brain. Adolphs and his colleagues downloaded the brain scans and intelligence scores from almost 900 individuals who had participated in the HCP, fed these into their algorithm, and set it to work.

After processing the data, the team's algorithm was able to predict intelligence at statistically significant levels across these 900 subjects, says Julien Dubois (Ph.D. '13), a postdoctoral fellow at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center. But there is a lot of room for improvement, he adds. The scans are coarse and noisy measures of what is actually happening in the brain, and a lot of potentially useful information is still being discarded.

Getting closer.......

Carmody
1st July 2018, 12:43
Further on in the same (above) article is this:


The researchers also conducted a parallel study, using the same test population and approach, that attempted to predict personality traits from fMRI brain scans. An individual's personality, Adolphs says, is at least as stable as intelligence over a long period of time. The personality test they used divides personality into five scales:

Openness to experience: Preference for new experiences and ideas vs. preference for routine and predictability
Conscientiousness: Self-discipline and thoughtfulness vs. spontaneity and flexibility
Extraversion: Sociability and talkativeness vs. shyness and reservation
Agreeableness: Friendliness and helpfulness vs. antagonism and argumentativeness
Neuroticism: Confidence and predisposition to positive emotions vs. nervousness and predisposition to negative emotions

However, it has turned out to be much more difficult to predict personality using the method the team used for predicting intelligence. But this is not surprising, says Dubois.

"The personality scores in the database are just from short, self-report questionnaires," he says. "That's not going to be a very accurate measure of personality to begin with, so it is no wonder we cannot predict it well from the MRI data."

Adolphs and Dubois say they are now teaming up with colleagues from different fields, including Caltech philosophy professor Frederick Eberhardt, to follow up on their findings.

Papers describing the two studies, titled "Resting-state functional brain connectivity best predicts the personality dimension of openness to experience," and "A distributed brain network predicts general intelligence from resting-state human neuroimaging data," are available online through bioRχiv; their publication in, respectively, Personality Neuroscience and Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society, is pending.

What I'm trying to say, is that we're probably one or two wide ranging test sequences away from getting the actual brain scan end of it together and in the public sphere.

Then on to the testing of politicians, governmental civil service department heads, judicial heads, military heads, and corporate heads. And others.

those in positions of responsibility and power...are to be required to submit to testing regimens that show their fitness for the office, in those ways that were previously hidden and in the shadows.

And finally have the public's attention on this psychopath and sociopath problem in so called 'leadership'.

The idea being 'that which is a fundamental component but invisible' now becomes visible, known, shown and openly quantifiable.

This does not mean the tool or the method is perfect, not a chance of that... but it is a change. a big one.

We rapidly approach another level of the 'who watches the watchers? problem.

The point of the thread is to do it openly, in control, and in knowing ---of what is about to happen.

As.. it is going to happen. That's a given.

Carmody
15th July 2018, 00:51
This puts a little more reality meat on the bones of what is going on. It illustrates a real example of what we are up against. The kind of psychopaths and how far they will go to keep what they've got and never stop being parasites. At Any Price.

Read carefully, and multiply these individuals by the thousands. We're talking bout the kind of people who, rather than be humane, would rather try and find a way to put explosive death collars on their own security people. To treat their security people as prisoners and animated meat of the most undesirable and untrustworthy kind. So determined to stay on top, they are psychopathic enough to think and be this way. The mirror of who they are, is all they see.

And this mess is running this world. No wonder it's going bad. It can't expand anymore, so it turns in on itself and eats the people first.


Survival of the richest: The wealthy are plotting to leave us behind (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/11/survival-of-the-richest-the-wealthy-are-plotting-to-leave-us-behind.html)


Last year, I got invited to a super-deluxe private resort to deliver a keynote speech to what I assumed would be a hundred or so investment bankers. It was by far the largest fee I had ever been offered for a talk — about half my annual professor’s salary — all to deliver some insight on the subject of “the future of technology.”

I’ve never liked talking about the future. The Q&A sessions always end up more like parlor games, where I’m asked to opine on the latest technology buzzwords as if they were ticker symbols for potential investments: blockchain, 3D printing, CRISPR. The audiences are rarely interested in learning about these technologies or their potential impacts beyond the binary choice of whether or not to invest in them. But money talks, so I took the gig.

After I arrived, I was ushered into what I thought was the green room. But instead of being wired with a microphone or taken to a stage, I just sat there at a plain round table as my audience was brought to me: five super-wealthy guys — yes, all men — from the upper echelon of the hedge fund world. After a bit of small talk, I realized they had no interest in the information I had prepared about the future of technology. They had come with questions of their own.

They started out innocuously enough. Ethereum or bitcoin? Is quantum computing a real thing? Slowly but surely, however, they edged into their real topics of concern.

Which region will be less impacted by the coming climate crisis: New Zealand or Alaska? Is Google really building Ray Kurzweil a home for his brain, and will his consciousness live through the transition, or will it die and be reborn as a whole new one? Finally, the CEO of a brokerage house explained that he had nearly completed building his own underground bunker system and asked, “How do I maintain authority over my security force after the event?”

The Event. That was their euphemism for the environmental collapse, social unrest, nuclear explosion, unstoppable virus, or Mr. Robot hack that takes everything down.

This single question occupied us for the rest of the hour. They knew armed guards would be required to protect their compounds from the angry mobs. But how would they pay the guards once money was worthless? What would stop the guards from choosing their own leader? The billionaires considered using special combination locks on the food supply that only they knew. Or making guards wear disciplinary collars of some kind in return for their survival. Or maybe building robots to serve as guards and workers — if that technology could be developed in time.

That’s when it hit me: At least as far as these gentlemen were concerned, this was a talk about the future of technology. Taking their cue from Elon Musk colonizing Mars, Peter Thiel reversing the aging process, or Sam Altman and Ray Kurzweil uploading their minds into supercomputers, they were preparing for a digital future that had a whole lot less to do with making the world a better place than it did with transcending the human condition altogether and insulating themselves from a very real and present danger of climate change, rising sea levels, mass migrations, global pandemics, nativist panic, and resource depletion. For them, the future of technology is really about just one thing: escape.

There’s nothing wrong with madly optimistic appraisals of how technology might benefit human society. But the current drive for a post-human utopia is something else. It’s less a vision for the wholesale migration of humanity to a new a state of being than a quest to transcend all that is human: the body, interdependence, compassion, vulnerability, and complexity. As technology philosophers have been pointing out for years, now, the transhumanist vision too easily reduces all of reality to data, concluding that “humans are nothing but information-processing objects.”

It’s a reduction of human evolution to a video game that someone wins by finding the escape hatch and then letting a few of his BFFs come along for the ride. Will it be Musk, Bezos, Thiel…Zuckerberg? These billionaires are the presumptive winners of the digital economy — the same survival-of-the-fittest business landscape that’s fueling most of this speculation to begin with.

Of course, it wasn’t always this way. There was a brief moment, in the early 1990s, when the digital future felt open-ended and up for our invention. Technology was becoming a playground for the counterculture, who saw in it the opportunity to create a more inclusive, distributed, and pro-human future. But established business interests only saw new potentials for the same old extraction, and too many technologists were seduced by unicorn IPOs. Digital futures became understood more like stock futures or cotton futures — something to predict and make bets on. So nearly every speech, article, study, documentary, or white paper was seen as relevant only insofar as it pointed to a ticker symbol. The future became less a thing we create through our present-day choices or hopes for humankind than a predestined scenario we bet on with our venture capital but arrive at passively.

This freed everyone from the moral implications of their activities. Technology development became less a story of collective flourishing than personal survival. Worse, as I learned, to call attention to any of this was to unintentionally cast oneself as an enemy of the market or an anti-technology curmudgeon.

So instead of considering the practical ethics of impoverishing and exploiting the many in the name of the few, most academics, journalists, and science-fiction writers instead considered much more abstract and fanciful conundrums: Is it fair for a stock trader to use smart drugs? Should children get implants for foreign languages? Do we want autonomous vehicles to prioritize the lives of pedestrians over those of its passengers? Should the first Mars colonies be run as democracies? Does changing my DNA undermine my identity? Should robots have rights?

Asking these sorts of questions, while philosophically entertaining, is a poor substitute for wrestling with the real moral quandaries associated with unbridled technological development in the name of corporate capitalism. Digital platforms have turned an already exploitative and extractive marketplace (think Walmart) into an even more dehumanizing successor (think Amazon). Most of us became aware of these downsides in the form of automated jobs, the gig economy, and the demise of local retail.

"The future became less a thing we create through our present-day choices or hopes for humankind than a predestined scenario we bet on with our venture capital but arrive at passively."

But the more devastating impacts of pedal-to-the-metal digital capitalism fall on the environment and global poor. The manufacture of some of our computers and smartphones still uses networks of slave labor. These practices are so deeply entrenched that a company called Fairphone, founded from the ground up to make and market ethical phones, learned it was impossible. (The company’s founder now sadly refers to their products as “fairer” phones.)

Meanwhile, the mining of rare earth metals and disposal of our highly digital technologies destroys human habitats, replacing them with toxic waste dumps, which are then picked over by peasant children and their families, who sell usable materials back to the manufacturers.

This “out of sight, out of mind” externalization of poverty and poison doesn’t go away just because we’ve covered our eyes with VR goggles and immersed ourselves in an alternate reality. If anything, the longer we ignore the social, economic, and environmental repercussions, the more of a problem they become. This, in turn, motivates even more withdrawal, more isolationism and apocalyptic fantasy — and more desperately concocted technologies and business plans. The cycle feeds itself.

The more committed we are to this view of the world, the more we come to see human beings as the problem and technology as the solution. The very essence of what it means to be human is treated less as a feature than bug. No matter their embedded biases, technologies are declared neutral. Any bad behaviors they induce in us are just a reflection of our own corrupted core. It’s as if some innate human savagery is to blame for our troubles. Just as the inefficiency of a local taxi market can be “solved” with an app that bankrupts human drivers, the vexing inconsistencies of the human psyche can be corrected with a digital or genetic upgrade.

Ultimately, according to the technosolutionist orthodoxy, the human future climaxes by uploading our consciousness to a computer or, perhaps better, accepting that technology itself is our evolutionary successor. Like members of a gnostic cult, we long to enter the next transcendent phase of our development, shedding our bodies and leaving them behind, along with our sins and troubles.

Our movies and television shows play out these fantasies for us. Zombie shows depict a post-apocalypse where people are no better than the undead — and seem to know it. Worse, these shows invite viewers to imagine the future as a zero-sum battle between the remaining humans, where one group’s survival is dependent on another one’s demise. Even Westworld — based on a science-fiction novel where robots run amok — ended its second season with the ultimate reveal: Human beings are simpler and more predictable than the artificial intelligences we create. The robots learn that each of us can be reduced to just a few lines of code, and that we’re incapable of making any willful choices. Heck, even the robots in that show want to escape the confines of their bodies and spend their rest of their lives in a computer simulation.

The mental gymnastics required for such a profound role reversal between humans and machines all depend on the underlying assumption that humans suck. Let’s either change them or get away from them, forever.

Thus, we get tech billionaires launching electric cars into space — as if this symbolizes something more than one billionaire’s capacity for corporate promotion. And if a few people do reach escape velocity and somehow survive in a bubble on Mars — despite our inability to maintain such a bubble even here on Earth in either of two multibillion-dollar Biosphere trials — the result will be less a continuation of the human diaspora than a lifeboat for the elite.

When the hedge funders asked me the best way to maintain authority over their security forces after “the event,” I suggested that their best bet would be to treat those people really well, right now. They should be engaging with their security staffs as if they were members of their own family. And the more they can expand this ethos of inclusivity to the rest of their business practices, supply chain management, sustainability efforts, and wealth distribution, the less chance there will be of an “event” in the first place. All this technological wizardry could be applied toward less romantic but entirely more collective interests right now.

They were amused by my optimism, but they didn’t really buy it. They were not interested in how to avoid a calamity; they’re convinced we are too far gone. For all their wealth and power, they don’t believe they can affect the future. They are simply accepting the darkest of all scenarios and then bringing whatever money and technology they can employ to insulate themselves — especially if they can’t get a seat on the rocket to Mars.

Luckily, those of us without the funding to consider disowning our own humanity have much better options available to us. We don’t have to use technology in such antisocial, atomizing ways. We can become the individual consumers and profiles that our devices and platforms want us to be, or we can remember that the truly evolved human doesn’t go it alone.

Being human is not about individual survival or escape. It’s a team sport. Whatever future humans have, it will be together.

norman
15th July 2018, 02:25
They were amused by my optimism, but they didn’t really buy it. They were not interested in how to avoid a calamity; they’re convinced we are too far gone. For all their wealth and power, they don’t believe they can affect the future. They are simply accepting the darkest of all scenarios and then bringing whatever money and technology they can employ to insulate themselves



Sad, stupid and obviously how we got here in the first place.

Omni
15th July 2018, 02:26
One of the slides from my upcoming film on the new age religion:

https://pdf.universalaspects.io/images/allseeingeye-public.png

Carmody
8th August 2018, 21:42
Narcissist, Psychopath, or Sociopath: How To Spot The Differences (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dv8zJiggBs)


6dv8zJiggBs

Flash
3rd September 2018, 18:03
Starting at minute 35, the video describes what is found in the brain of psychopath that may help in diagnosis

Ongoing research

At minute 44, microchipping psychopaths (my opinion, if this is controlled by corporate psychopaths, we are doomed)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60vK6Uw9sSE

Carmody
13th December 2018, 18:43
It is becoming more common. More people are beginning to understand what they are ruled by and how to root it out. If you read closely enough, you will see that my thread opening remarks are pretty well echoed below.


The Evolutionary Role of Narcissistic Sociopaths (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/beastly-behavior/201812/the-evolutionary-role-narcissistic-sociopaths)

Co-authored by Nathan Lents, Ph.D., and Robert Trivers, Ph.D.

There is no shortage of published psychological profiles of Donald J. Trump that attempt to diagnose him, from a distance, as either a psychopath or a narcissistic sociopath (examples here, here, and here). These profiles, of course, are fatally hindered by the lack of access to Mr. Trump for personal examination and completion of personality inventories. There is a raging debate in the psychology community on the propriety of all of this. (Other kinds of diagnoses and analyses, here and here, and an important essay from Psychology Today.)

However, exploration of the evolutionary features of these very peculiar personality types does not require a personal examination and may provide insight into this important question.


Psychopaths are indeed an evolutionary conundrum because their particular behaviors are not an obvious path toward evolutionary success. For example, the majority of serial killers are childless when they are killed or apprehended. Narcissistic sociopaths, however, invariably have families and children whom they support energetically, and many of the traits specific to this phenotype can fairly be called adaptive. This raises the important issue of the evolutionary niche of a narcissistic sociopath within the societies in which they exist.

[A note on terminology: We employ “narcissistic sociopath” as an umbrella term inclusive of Machiavellianism and narcissistic/antisocial personality disorder but exclusive of sadistic psychopathology, as explained below. Terminology in this area is inconsistent in both the scientific literature and even more so in popular media, in part because these various personality types/disorders exist on a multidimensional spectrum with both common and distinct characteristics. Importantly, our analysis is from the perspective of evolutionary biology, not psychology.]

Narcissistic sociopaths share many features with psychopaths including above average intelligence, considerable social savvy, adaptability, likability, and natural skills in (Machiavellian) manipulation. They are charming, outgoing, feign interest in people and subjects, and can convincingly fake both sympathy and conscience. If they engage in charitable acts at all, they are only in pursuit of ancillary selfish benefits. They learn from experience and show no dedication to a set of moral values, religious beliefs, truth, or transparency. If they admire anyone, it is other psychopaths and sociopaths that they wish to emulate. Finally, they are effective liars and show a chilling unconcern for the welfare of others.

There is one particular skill that is common to both psychopaths and narcissistic sociopaths and is absolutely essential to their nature: cognitive empathy. This is different from emotional (or affective) empathy, sometimes called emotional contagion, which is regarded as the ability and tendency to closely identify with the emotional experience of others.


Cognitive empathy is a mental skill involving the close observation of others in order to understand and predict their behavior. It is morally neutral and common in high-functioning individuals across the moral and ethical spectrum. While social workers and therapists use cognitive empathy to help individuals improve their lives, psychopaths and sociopaths use this skill to manipulate, coerce, and deceive others in orders. While emotional empathy is an innate cognitive feature we share with other social mammals, cognitive empathy is a skill that can be developed and refined, and doing so is key to the behaviors of both psychopaths and sociopaths.

However, the ways in which sociopaths differ from psychopaths is key to understanding their evolutionary utility. For example, psychopaths are more likely than the general public to be violent and to end up incarcerated. Narcissistic sociopaths, on the other hand, are usually nonviolent and can work within a system of laws and norms, insofar as it suits their goals, because, while they do not hesitate to harm others, especially when insulted or humiliated, it isn’t a specific aim. Instead, they are highly motivated toward the accumulation of riches and influence; whereas psychopaths are often more focused on sadistic self-gratification and generally do not seek positions of power and wealth per se. (There is some crossover between these phenotypes; sociopaths who do find gratification in inflicting pain can be labeled malignant narcissists.)

Finally, narcissistic sociopaths always seek reproductive success through procreation and aggressive nepotism, which is usually accompanied by extreme in-group identification, e.g., racism, xenophobia, and nationalism, while psychopaths show no allegiance to family, community, or country.

Therefore, the phenotype of the narcissistic sociopath is not a bizarre combination of traits, but rather a set of highly attuned social skills and behaviors aimed at increasing long-term biological fitness through wealth, status, power, and the future success of progeny. In order words, sociopaths are highly adapted (key literature here, here, here, and references therein).

The evolutionary puzzle of narcissistic sociopaths is not found in the phenotype itself but rather in the interaction of sociopaths with the society in which they exist. Social groups can detect dishonest and manipulative behaviors and act to punish the actors in order to either correct the antisocial behavior or remove them from the group. Dozens of mammal species have shown this very sophisticated and elastic social behavior, but humans and our close relatives are especially apt at detecting and punishing cheaters, freeloaders, and liars.

This sets up both a short-term conflict and long-term evolutionary battle between manipulative narcissistic sociopaths and the rest of society, that is, those who do not wish to be manipulated. Most individuals in a society share a vested interest in maintaining fairness and social order. The equilibrium point is reached through a concept called frequency-dependent selection, the essence of which is that phenotypes can sometimes have distinct advantages precisely because they are rare. Under this paradigm, the infrequency of sociopaths in a population is essential to their success.

Current estimates place the prevalence of narcissistic sociopathy at 1–2 percent, making it a candidate phenotype for frequency-dependent selection, especially given how successful they often are. The rarity of narcissistic sociopaths in the population, along with their considerable skill in hiding their true motivations, makes them very difficult to detect. If they were more numerous, however, members of society would become familiar with this particular pattern of social deviance and quickly learn to neutralize it. Furthermore, when narcissists encounter one another, while they may be willing to cooperate with each other in fickle and short-lived alliances, ultimately their goals will collide and the relationship deteriorates into mutually self-defeating conflicts. This, too, acts as negative selection and maintains the low frequency of this peculiar phenotype.

On the other side of the conflict is the selective pressure on the rest of society. Because sociopaths are rare, the intensity of the pressure on society to detect and neutralize them is correspondingly weak. Weak pressure leads to poor adaptation, while sociopaths experience strong pressure and become highly adapted. However, as the sociopath phenotype finds evolutionary success, the pressure flips back the other direction as the rest of society experiences increasing pressure, adapts, and then pushes the frequency of the sociopaths back down to the basal level. In human culture, this pendulum swings in both the long timescales of genetic evolution and the short timescales of cultural evolution. In both contexts, the conflict is cyclical.

With this evolutionary framework in mind, we can now return to the question of President Trump. Clearly, he attracts devoted supporters. He can be affable, charming, and flattering. He reads people well and can maneuver through his relationships in order to obtain the best “deal” for himself. While many question his capacity for emotional empathy, his skills in cognitive empathy are undeniable.

However, he also has maintained an unwavering pursuit of wealth, influence, and power, by his own admission. He has never participated in regular religious observance, is not outwardly pious, and shows no allegiance to a political party. It is well documented that his views have shifted, sometimes repeatedly, on the most central political questions of the day such as abortion, government involvement in healthcare, military interventionism, federal drug policy, and LGBTQ rights. While only his critics view him as racist and xenophobic, even his supporters see him as fiercely nationalistic and his own campaign slogan of “America First” underscores this. And finally, he aggressively pursues his own biological fitness through the placement of his children in top positions in both his business enterprises and his presidential administration. Thus, an evolutionary analysis reveals that he is clearly not a psychopath.

Whether or not he is a narcissistic sociopath, then, depends on the answers to questions about his conscience or lack thereof, commitment to truth and transparency, sincerity in his professed religious beliefs, fidelity to political ideals, and tendency to cheat, deceive, and coerce. These questions are more like Rorschach tests in which his supporters and detractors come to opposite conclusions. However, for the most part, the answers to these questions do not require a psychological analysis of the president. There is abundant evidence in the public record.

[This essay first appeared in Arc Digital and was co-authored by Nathan H. Lents and Robert L. Trivers. Credit for the thesis and most of the evolutionary analysis belongs to Trivers.]

Carmody
16th June 2019, 01:00
A lot of other things have kept this tick tick tick..moving forward. What I mean by that, is quite a few other articles on emergent tech and methods -than this one which I'm listing..

The point is..if this can out psychosis, it can then very likely be fine tuned to out psychopaths and sociopaths...or at least serve as an adjunct in such support.

So it looks like the nastier ones are going to have fewer places, or ways... to hide...which is the point of the thread. Where emergent technology needs to be recognized as a tool of outing sociopaths and psychopaths, and not be used by them to control the populace. To get the idea of this into the general mind of humanity in the right way...not just exclusively the wrong/nasty way. This sort of thing is coming forth regardless, so make sure the public knows it can be an excellent tool for outing the virulence of controllers and associated vassals - who would prefer to remain hidden.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The whisper of schizophrenia: Machine learning finds 'sound' words predict psychosis (https://techxplore.com/news/2019-06-schizophrenia-machine-words-psychosis.html)


A machine-learning method discovered a hidden clue in people's language predictive of the later emergence of psychosis—the frequent use of words associated with sound. A paper published by the journal npj Schizophrenia published the findings by scientists at Emory University and Harvard University.

The researchers also developed a new machine-learning method to more precisely quantify the semantic richness of people's conversational language, a known indicator for psychosis.

Their results show that automated analysis of the two language variables—more frequent use of words associated with sound and speaking with low semantic density, or vagueness—can predict whether an at-risk person will later develop psychosis with 93 percent accuracy.

Even trained clinicians had not noticed how people at risk for psychosis use more words associated with sound than the average, although abnormal auditory perception is a pre-clinical symptom.

"Trying to hear these subtleties in conversations with people is like trying to see microscopic germs with your eyes," says Neguine Rezaii, first author of the paper. "The automated technique we've developed is a really sensitive tool to detect these hidden patterns. It's like a microscope for warning signs of psychosis."

Rezaii began work on the paper while she was a resident at Emory School of Medicine's Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences. She is now at fellow in Harvard Medical School's Department of Neurology.

"It was previously known that subtle features of future psychosis are present in people's language, but we've used machine learning to actually uncover hidden details about those features," says senior author Phillip Wolff, a professor of psychology at Emory. Wolff's lab focuses on language semantics and machine learning to predict decision-making and mental health.

"Our finding is novel and adds to the evidence showing the potential for using machine learning to identify linguistic abnormalities associated with mental illness," says co-author Elaine Walker, an Emory professor of psychology and neuroscience who researches how schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders develop.

The onset of schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders typically occurs in the early 20s, with warning signs—known as prodromal syndrome—beginning around age 17. About 25 to 30 percent of youth who meet criteria for a prodromal syndrome will develop schizophrenia or another psychotic disorder.

Using structured interviews and cognitive tests, trained clinicians can predict psychosis with about 80 percent accuracy in those with a prodromal syndrome. Machine-learning research is among the many ongoing efforts to streamline diagnostic methods, identify new variables, and improve the accuracy of predictions.

Currently, there is no cure for psychosis.

"If we can identify individuals who are at risk earlier and use preventive interventions, we might be able to reverse the deficits," Walker says. "There are good data showing that treatments like cognitive-behavioral therapy can delay onset, and perhaps even reduce the occurrence of psychosis."

For the current paper, the researchers first used machine learning to establish "norms" for conversational language. They fed a computer software program the online conversations of 30,000 users of Reddit, a social media platform where people have informal discussions about a range of topics. The software program, known as Word2Vec, uses an algorithm to change individual words to vectors, assigning each one a location in a semantic space based on its meaning. Those with similar meanings are positioned closer together than those with far different meanings.

The Wolff lab also developed a computer program to perform what the researchers dubbed "vector unpacking," or analysis of the semantic density of word usage. Previous work has measured semantic coherence between sentences. Vector unpacking allowed the researchers to quantify how much information was packed into each sentence.

After generating a baseline of "normal" data, the researchers applied the same techniques to diagnostic interviews of 40 participants that had been conducted by trained clinicians, as part of the multi-site North American Prodrome Longitudinal Study (NAPLS), funded by the National Institutes of Health. NAPLS is focused on young people at clinical high risk for psychosis. Walker is the principal investigator for NAPLS at Emory, one of nine universities involved in the 14-year project.

The automated analyses of the participant samples were then compared to the normal baseline sample and the longitudinal data on whether the participants converted to psychosis.

The results showed that higher than normal usage of words related to sound, combined with a higher rate of using words with similar meaning, meant that psychosis was likely on the horizon.

Strengths of the study include the simplicity of using just two variables—both of which have a strong theoretical foundation—the replication of the results in a holdout dataset, and the high accuracy of its predictions, at above 90 percent.

"In the clinical realm, we often lack precision," Rezaii says. "We need more quantified, objective ways to measure subtle variables, such as those hidden within language usage."

Rezaii and Wolff are now gathering larger data sets and testing the application of their methods on a variety of neuropsychiatric diseases, including dementia.

"This research is interesting not just for its potential to reveal more about mental illness, but for understanding how the mind works—how it puts ideas together," Wolff says. "Machine learning technology is advancing so rapidly that it's giving us tools to data mine the human mind."

Carmody
16th July 2019, 14:09
DeepEyedentification: identifying people based on micro eye movements (https://techxplore.com/news/2019-07-deepeyedentification-people-based-micro-eye.html)

There is no doubt that if this can be tuned to recognize individuals, via their eye micro motion patterns..then there is very high probability it can be used to detect psychopaths and sociopaths.

Basically, another tool in the box to zero in on these particular neural wiring patterns.

It is going to be used against us (the general public --in an Orwellian context), lets make sure those who attempt to use it against us, can be targeted as the primary focus of the methodology, right from the get-go.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

https://3c1703fe8d.site.internapcdn.net/newman/gfx/news/2019/deepeyedenti.jpg


Past cognitive psychology research suggests that eye movements can differ substantially from one individual to another. Interestingly, these individual characteristics in eye movements have been found to be relatively stable over time and largely independent of what one is looking at. In other words, people present different patterns in the way they move their eyes and these unique 'eye movements' could be used as a means for identification.

Fascinated by these observations, researchers at the University of Potsdam, in Germany, have recently developed a new biometric identification method that works by processing micro-movements of the eye. In their study, pre-published on arXiv, they carried out a thorough investigation of people's involuntary eye movements and used their findings to develop DeepEyedentification, a deep learning architecture that can identify people by analyzing eye-tracking signals.

The idea of identifying individuals based on their eye movements has been around for more than a decade, yet the methods proposed so far come with significant limitations. For instance, most of these methods are not very accurate or take too long to reach a conclusion (i.e. require long eye movement recordings of around one minute), which makes them fairly impractical for real-world applications.

"In psychological research, it is standard to preprocess the eye movement data into different types of eye movement," Lena Jäger, one of the researchers who carried out the study, told TechXplore. "Previous biometric methods have adopted this practice at the cost of a great loss of information that is present in the raw eye movement data such as a high-frequency tremor of the eye. Our key idea was to make use of these high-frequency characteristics and not pre-process data, but rather train a deep convolutional network in an end-to-end fashion using the raw samples collected at 1000 frames per second as input."
A representation of the horizontal (blue line) and vertical (orange line) movement of the eye gaze during reading. The large ‘steps’ represent saccades, i.e., fast relocation movements of the eye; in most cases these saccades are in the horizontal direction only – this is because the script is horizontal: the user is moving his gaze to an upcoming word or is regressing to a previous word. At approx. 200ms and 400ms, there are saccades that also have a vertical component --- the user is jumping to the next line, fixates one word and jumps back to the previous line. The intervals between saccades are fixation during which one can observe a very small high frequency movement (tremor) and a slow drift movement superimposed by measurement noise. Previous approaches have filtered these fixational micro-movements out in their preprocessing of the data, yet it appears to be very informative with respect to the identification of individuals. Credit: Jäger et al.

In their study, Jäger and her colleagues showed that non-preprocessed eye tracking data leads to far higher accuracy than that achieved by existing approaches, while also requiring shorter video feeds. The error rate of the DeepEyedentication network is lower by one order of magnitude and identification is faster by two orders of magnitude than the previously best-performing method.

After recording only one second of eye movement data, the model had already achieved the same accuracy attained by the previously best performing model after 100 seconds of recording. Moreover, after five seconds of eye movement recording, the error rate was 10 times smaller. The researchers trained their network on two different data sets, one that they collected in a previous study where users read various texts, and another one collected as participants watched a dot randomly jumping on the computer screen.

"While viewing some stimulus on a computer screen (in our data sets a text or a jumping dot) a camera-based eyetracking device measures where the user is looking," Jäger explained. "This data was fed to a deep neural network that transforms it into an idiosyncratic representation of the user's eye movement behavior, which is independent of the specific stimulus on the screen."
The model architecture presented in the paper. Credit: Jäger et al.

Essentially, Jäger and her colleagues trained their model to identify features of eye movement data that are particularly useful for distinguishing between different individuals. Their model uses this idiosyncratic representation of the input data fed to it, along with other user data stored in the system, to either identify a user or reject him/her.

"We show that biometric identification based on eye movements has the potential to become a serious competitor for other widely used biometric identification methods, such as finger print, iris scan or face recognition or complement these techniques," Jäger said. "Crucially, biometric identification from eye movements is intrinsically less vulnerable to spoofing attacks. While iris scans, face recognition and fingerprints can be spoofed by 2-D or 3-D replicas (e.g. images, printed contact lenses, or 3-D replicas such as an artificial eye, a face mask or a fake fingerprint), spoofing eye movements would require a device that is able to display a video sequence in the infrared spectrum at a rate of 1,000 frames per second."

So far, the new biometric identification method developed by Jäger and her colleagues has achieved very promising results. In the future, it could help to increase the security of a vast array of devices, including smartphones, laptops and tablets. As this new approach works independently of what a user is looking at, the researchers could easily add a so-called 'liveliness detection module,' which would further increase its security. Such a module would automatically check whether a user's eye movements match a visual stimulus presented on the screen, which would not be the case if someone was trying to spoof the system using a pre-recorded video.

"We are currently working with high-resolution and high sampling frequency eye trackers under laboratory conditions," Jäger said. "Our next step is to develop an algorithm that can also deal with noisier data and lower sample rates under realistic conditions. This is necessary to make biometric identification from eye movements affordable and applicable to a wide range of real-world applications."

Carmody
7th April 2020, 12:20
Terrorists Are Still Among Us. Can Brain Scans Expose Them? (https://www.thedailybeast.com/terrorists-are-still-among-us-can-brain-scans-expose-them)

This belongs on the potential misuse side. The casus belli end of the pool.


What makes terrorists tick? This is the Holy Grail of terrorism studies, as well as the animating conundrum in virtually every news story about all those ever so “normal” terrorists next door, whether jihadi or white supremacist.

In this new age of vanished normalcy, where a deadly virus has killed over 50,000 and resulted in lockdowns across the globe, the concerns of terrorism scholars might seem antiquated, but on Saturday a remnant from the old world returned with a vengeance. In a small town in Southeast France a Sudanese man went on a stabbing rampage in a tobacconist and outside a bakery, killing two and wounding five.

Once again we ask, with renewed urgency and perplexity: What makes such men tick? Why would someone want to kill and die in defense of a holy cause? (The attacker, named as Abdallah A.O., reportedly implored the police to kill him when they arrived on the scene.)

Nafees Hamid, a cognitive scientist, thinks he has the answer. In a recent op-ed documentary for The New York Times, Hamid reported that the research he and his colleagues have carried out revealed “clues to what makes people willing to fight and die for their beliefs,” and that these clues were gleaned from looking at neuroimaging of the brains of over 70 radicalized Muslim men between the ages of 18 and 40, as well as probing the same men about their “sacred values” (i.e. the ends or principles to which they have a deep and uncompromising commitment).

This research tells us far more about the folk wisdom of its progenitors than it does about the real world of terrorism and political violence.

At the very core of this wisdom is the ancient theological notion that evil leaves a human stain which can be mapped and, with the right intervention, exorcised from the world.

Scanning the brains of would-be terrorists is also testament to the lingering appeal of the long debunked myths of criminal phrenology, as exemplified in the work of Cesare Lombroso. In The Criminal Man, published in 1876, Lombroso confidently declared that he had found the root causes of crime after studying “the skull of a brigand,” finding in it “a very long series of atavistic abnormalities.”

Against the prevailing religious consensus at the time, Lombroso concluded that the “criminal man” was not immoral, but abnormal: A genetic throwback to an earlier, less advanced, stage of human evolution, proof of which could be found in his beastly appearance (“crooked noses, sloping foreheads, large ears, protruding jaws, dark eyes”).

Lombroso’s work played into egregious, often racist stereotypes about physiognomy. Its focus on the “abnormal” brain would become a staple of horror films in the early 20th century, and even be parodied in Mel Brooks’ 1974 comedy, Young Frankenstein.

At a deeper level, despite Lombroso’s scientific rhetoric and veneer, his book was just another iteration of the essentially religious view that evil lies “within” and can be banished through curative treatment.

While the research of Hamid and his colleagues is clearly an advance on that of Lombroso and the phrenologists, it nonetheless perpetuates the simplistic view that radicalization is an ominous shadow that shows up in a brain scan. This is not a helpful way to think about the complex process by which individuals and groups become convinced that killing innocents for political purposes is a good and necessary thing to do.

Hamid’s starting premise is a convincing one, which is that for people to fight and die for their beliefs, the beliefs in question must be of a “sacred” kind: that is, the beliefs must be so core to who they are and what they value that they are prepared to sacrifice their lives and those of others in defense of them.

For jihadists, these sacred beliefs include the establishment of the caliphate, the honor of the Prophet Muhammad and the purity of Muslim womanhood, whereas for white supremacists these sacred values include the establishment of a white-only state, the honor of heroic forebears, and the upholding of white female purity.

Less convincing, however, are Hamid’s methods and recommendations for dealing with terrorists.

The core problem lies in the radical disconnect between scanning brains and understanding the roots and dynamics of political violence.

Hamid explains that when his respondents were asked about their sacred values, the left inferior frontal gyrus in the brain fired up. Now, even if we grant that certain areas of the brain are activated when people are asked about sacred values, this tells us nothing about the circumstances under which people in the real world, outside of the setting of an experiment with a MRI machine, are willing to kill themselves and others in defense of them. It casts no light on how and why people join a violent political movement. It has nothing to say about how or why some sacred values are seemingly more propulsive than others.

A nagging complaint of far-right violent activists is that, unlike their jihadi enemies, so few among their number seem willing to die for the cause—a sort of martyrdom envy.

It tells us nothing about why some members of violent political groups remain peripherally involved in violence, while others positively embrace the chance to participate in violent acts. And it can’t explain why even the most hardcore jihadis lose their nerve and bottle it on the battlefield.

Another fundamental problem relates to the artificiality of the experiments Hamid and his colleagues carried out. They didn’t interview actual terrorists or people who had done acts of terrorism. Rather, they interviewed a relatively small sample of radicalized men about their value commitments and how far they would go in defense of them.

Fair enough; there are enormous constraints around interviewing terrorists. But it’s quite a stretch to think that what people tell you about their core values in an experimental situation has a bearing on what they do outside of it. Many of us would like to imagine ourselves bravely and unselfishly risking our lives in defense of our sacred values, but few of us are actually willing, still less eager, to do so when the crunch comes.

The weakest part of Hamid’s analysis in the Times video lies in his prescription that we should all be kinder and more careful in our everyday discourse. By way of illustration, he cites a tweet by the left-leaning public intellectual Reza Aslan, who, in the aftermath of the El Paso attack in 2019, suggested that supporting Trump is tantamount to supporting terrorists.

Hamid thinks that such a demonizing discourse “risks making someone out there feel more excluded and, if they’re at the early stages of radicalization, it could push them closer to violence.” We should refrain from doing it, he cautions.


The analysis of the experiment and the retort that is the article itself, is not up to date on the overall complex matter, with regard to how it has played out, in the past decade or more. How these things can be triangulated well enough (read the earlier parts of the thread) that certain groups can begin or have begun the process of integrating this sort of stuff into the lexicon of knowledge. whether their work be fictional or correct, the move to establish it with a history and to be a norm, is well on and getting deeper in depth of record and use, every day.

The push to a cashless society (coronavirus 2020), is when this sort of analysis will be come to be a norm, as a known method, or crowbar, for removing those with independent mindedness.