Fraudulent Healers

[Celine]

Many claim this title...

healer
noun
a person or thing that heals; specif., one who tries to heal through prayer or faith

Some claim to do this daily...

healing:
the act or process in which the normal structural and functional characteristics of health are restored to diseased, dysfunctional, or damaged tissues, organs, or systems of the body.


Many self help books are available to healp heal all sorts of issues..

The healing business is a booming one in our society.. And health is a very hot topic.

Some claim they can use frequencies to heal

Solfeggio frequencies http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/2006/01jan/solfeggio.html


So many anecdoctal evidence around us.

Are these healing techniques valuable to society? Is there more damage being done by frauds then any being healed?

[Celine]

A Japanese Spiritual Healing Practice that Claims to Provide Healing by "touch of Hands" is Getting Very Popular, Especially with Women. but is it for Real or Just Another Money-making Scam ?


http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/228486/reiki_is_it_spiritual_healing_or_fraud.html

[Celine]

Do magnets have health benefits? Can sleeping on a magnetic underlay, wearing a magnetic pad or drinking magnetised water improve your wellbeing? Those pushing magnetic therapy claim that the health benefits can range from simply reducing pain to the extreme, and irresponsible, claim of curing cancer. Do they really work or are they just a scam, a waste of money?


http://www.sillybeliefs.com/magnets.html

[pilotsimone]

I've healed myself through meditation, so I don't see why others couldn't heal me as well. If the one being healed has faith in the process...

[Celine]

is it only about faith?

[Celine]

Rife machines


Cheating death

Sydney Morning Herald - December 30, 2000

Cancer sufferers have died after putting their faith in a device with electrical parts worth just $15. Ben Hills reports.

The doctor said he might not see Christmas. It was the winter of 1996 and David Carpenter, a 69-year-old retired railway worker, had inoperable cancer of the prostate gland. He had been sent home to die in the village of Geurie, on the western plains of NSW, in the fibro cottage where he lived with his wife of nearly half a century, Madge, and his son, Des. As the disease inexorably advanced, he took to his bed.

Flicking through Nexus, an alternative magazine published from Mapleton, Queensland, which features articles on UFOs, miracle cures and conspiracy theories, Des saw an advertisement headlined "Rife Technology".

Underneath was this claim: "A brilliant new Walkman-style personal therapy system, offers a comprehensive range of frequencies from common colds and flu to the most serious debilitating and degenerative diseases, including arthritis and cancer."

Des rang the 1800 number in the ad and was assured that not only would the device, called a Personal Electro Therapy or PET machine, treat his father's cancer, but it could be tuned to frequencies that would cure his own chronic fatigue syndrome and his mother's arthritis. "I wouldn't normally fall for something like this, but you have to understand we were desperate," says Des. He and his mother borrowed money against their invalid pensions and sent $1,425 to a company called Electromed (Australia) Pty Ltd, which sent them a small black box decorated with flashing lights, some wiring, two nylon pads and a copy of a book, The Cancer Cure that Worked - Fifty Years of Suppression, by an American "investigative journalist", Barry Lynes.


for the rest of the article...

http://www.healthwatcher.net/quackerywatch/Cancer/Cancer-news/smh001230rife-aus.html

[stardustaquarion]

Hi Celine

I have healed myself by practicing the Maharic Seal. My story is quite interesting as I was severely ill for a long time and no official doctor could do anything for me.

Since then I have had not need even to use an aspirin

We are made of energy, if someone can find where the energy is blocked healing is possible, self healing is even more effective

There are also a lot of quacks too so always use your discernment

Love

[Celine]

Thank You Stardustaquarion,

I agree with the statement "healed yourself"...there is so much anecdotal evidence on those issues.
No dispute here, that is has worked on millions, individuly

I am looking more for evidence, research done to prove ...or disprove these Healers claim that they "heal" people.

Many ask for money...many sell things to support the healing ritual... some just get a power trip out of it.

clarity is always the best route ..especialy on the road to healing. IMHO

[Celine]

Rife Machine Operator Sued
Stephen Barrett, M.D.

The Attorneys General of Wisconsin and Minnesota have sued to stop an unlicensed woman, Shelvie Rettmann, of Prior Lake, Minnesota, from representing that she can cure cancer.


http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/News/rife.html

http://images.google.ca/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://www.thedetoxbox.com/special/images/DetoxPads.jpg&usg=AFQjCNG69nGV4OaWEb2HqhI2ElY0bLpcWg

[pilotsimone]

I don't really know if it's only faith as I don't really question it. It works for me, so I can't see the benefit of trying to disprove it to myself. :p

If, however, someone's contract is up and it's their time to die...is there really anything they can do to stop it?

[Celine]

Great question...

My personal opinion would be No...

But many say they have cheated death.

[Celine]

http://www.naturalhealersassociation.co.za/images/logo.gif




THE HEALERS OATH

As a Natural Healer, I pledge that I will not, in any manner, or at any time, abuse the responsibility entrusted to me. I will endeavour at all times to live a life which is worthy of that trust. I will use my God-given gift to the very best of my ability to alleviate suffering and in the service of humanity without seeking acclaim. I will not permit considerations of religion, nationality, race, politics or social standing to intervene between my duty and my client. I will not criticise other healers. As a channel for the power and the love of God, I understand that this power and love will be directed through me to where it is most needed. Thus, I will not in any way interfere with medical treatment and will work in co-operation with my fellow healers. I will use my gift with conscience and dignity and the physical, mental and spiritual health of my client shall be my first consideration at all times.



“Whatsoever house I enter, there will I go for the benefit of the sick, refraining from all wrongdoing or corruption. Whatsoever things I see or hear concerning the life of men, in my attendance on the sick or even apart therefrom, which ought not to be noised abroad, I will keep silence thereon, counting such things to be as sacred secrets. Pure will I keep my life and my healing art.”

By kind courtesy of Katherine Lee.

[HORIZONS]

The thing is is that there are "quacks" in every business. False teachers of every kind of truth, false healers, false Doctors of every kind of medicine. You name it and there is a counterfeit - especially if it makes money. You can hire someone to build you a house that may barely even know the basics of home carpentry. There is an anti-everything. This is why discernment is SO important -- and in every area of your life, because if you get ripped off concerning your health you can die. "Physician heal thyself" is a good motto to remember.

[stardustaquarion]

The thing is is that there are "quacks" in every business. False teachers of every kind of truth, false healers, false Doctors of every kind of medicine. You name it and there is a counterfeit - especially if it makes money. You can hire someone to build you a house that may barely even know the basics of home carpentry. There is an anti-everything. This is why discernment is SO important -- and in every area of your life, because if you get ripped off concerning your health you can die. "Physician heal thyself" is a good motto to remember.

You are right, if there are any quacks is most of the English doctors I meet, truly careless and they almost killed me!:sick:

[dAkapacity]

I did Ayahuasca, sweat lodges and family constellations (Bert Hellinger), three things that brought me closer to myself and away from my energetic blockades and brainprison. In the constellation the person representing me was actually shaking in the exact same way as me (which I thought was pretty unbelievable) and the reactions from and interactions between the other representatives playing my mother, brother, etc... where scarily similar. The whole setup gave me a third party perspective and had wonderful lasting healing effects!

In my opinion all these healings have the possibility to heal a part of you, but it's you who has to integrate the wisdom, the lessons your body have for you, the insights the healing practise show you. If not, eventually you'll suffer from the same or similar stuff.

Like you said, Céline, clarity is always the best route and, indeed StardustAq, we should always use our discernment when accepting a healer or healing method! I for one am always vigilant when a 'healer' is claiming that he can/will heal you. If their brochures or announcements mention something like: 'this therapy/technique/essence/... will help you to be more aligned with yourself so you can learn to be more in contact with your path (or something like that)', I wil give it a second thought... otherwise :der:

Dada,
xxdA.

[Celine]

Those experiences must have made such a profound effect in your life.

Thank you for sharing.

I completely agree with you about the personal growth many healers can offer.

And yes discernment is key..

But there must be more then anecdotal evidence ?

[Majorion]

Healing is mostly psychological, just like the placebo effect, if a person's perception of themselves is of good health and they are generally happy in life, then their health will also probably be good as well. This does not mean there 'aren't' external factors that could affect a person, because there are, but what it does mean is that your belief-in-something will heal you more than anything else.

[HORIZONS]

You are right, if there are any quacks is most of the English doctors I meet, truly careless and they almost killed me!:sick:

I agree with you as well - I remember reading/hearing that medical treatment is the 3rd leading cause of death in the US. I guess that is why Doc's get a license to "practice" medicine, b/c they sure don't "know" medicine.

[Sunny d]

Do magnets have health benefits? Can sleeping on a magnetic underlay, wearing a magnetic pad or drinking magnetised water improve your wellbeing? Those pushing magnetic therapy claim that the health benefits can range from simply reducing pain to the extreme, and irresponsible, claim of curing cancer. Do they really work or are they just a scam, a waste of money?


http://www.sillybeliefs.com/magnets.html

rZDOPQRdxJM

[Lairenia]

I am a Healer. I do not pretend to understand exactly how it works, but I can tell you that I have had amazing results with soft tissue injuries, especially. Cuts stop bleeding and close within moments or hours, depending on their severity; burns stop hurting and the skin returns to normal in a very short time. Pain of all sorts responds to this energy, although the most dramatic effects are on acute, rather than chronic, pain. Putting my hands on the injured part is helpful, but is not strictly necessary. During the Healing, I can sometimes discern that the person has some spiritual work to do in a specific area. I may offer this information to the person, depending upon how they look at the world. If they are sick, with an illness rather than an injury, it might take many sequential Healings over a period of days or weeks for the person to be restored to health.

I do not charge any money, ever. I ask nothing in return for this work. If the person wishes to make payment in gratitude for their restored health, I ask for a cutting from a plant in their garden, for my garden, so that their energy will become part of my home. I also ask everyone who benefits from my help to "pass it on," to give someone else the benefit of one of their skills, for free, asking for nothing.

Their are frauds everywhere, in every field of endeavor. My Healing is a gift -- I didn't learn how to do it, it is just there. It appears to be part of my Path to offer this freely to others, and I do it gladly. I have no quarrel with people who make a living doing healing work of any kind. It is just not my Path.

I know that lives have been changed because of this gift, and I believe that lives have been saved. "Saved," in the sense that a premature ending was avoided. You who say that when a life is over, it ends, are correct, I believe. Nothing will alter the appropriate ending of an incarnation, but an intervention, made in congruence with a person's Path, can help them forward with a different perspective on their life.

I offer this information simply to let people know that hands-on healing is real, and need not compromise anyone's ethics, and need not exploit anyone's need. Some turn away from me in fear, or because they do not wish to change their thinking about something that needs attention in their lives. Some people simply cannot believe that I want nothing from them in return. They look for the "catch," they imagine evil magic. I am sorry for them, but I never move towards anyone. At most, I offer once if I see need. Usually, people hear about me and find me of their own accord.

My teenaged granddaughter also has this gift. It horrifies her to use it among her peers, and she has only done it at great need, and away from prying eyes. I know that, with maturity, she will understand that the power that comes from the place from whence all power comes -- the Source, the Creator, the light of the Universe -- whatever name you care to give to Light -- must be used to help other souls on their journeys, even as we are on our journeys. Embarrassment and fear are the problems that our own egos have. I have had to mature past that, and she will, too.

Beware of people who give you orders, or make demands, or require an exalted place. Such are not among those whom I would trust.

[Celine]

Beware of people who give you orders, or make demands, or require an exalted place. Such are not among those whom I would trust.

Thank you Lairenia for sharring your experience and knowledge..

You last statement said a mouthfull...it is great wisdom for anyone seeking advice on healing.

[bashi]

Rife Machine Operator Sued
Stephen Barrett, M.D.

The Attorneys General of Wisconsin and Minnesota have sued to stop an unlicensed woman, Shelvie Rettmann, of Prior Lake, Minnesota, from representing that she can cure cancer.




That can be a kind of recommendation

[CetaceousOne]

When it comes to being a healer, I think intention is very important.

Personally, I tend to trust those who offer assistance while asking little or nothing in return.

Despite the best intention of the healer, there can be blocks on the part of the person requesting healing that can mitigate or prevent the intended healing.

If this occurs, or someone does not meet unrealistic expectations, are they automatically a fraud?

The greatest healing truly comes from within...

[HORIZONS]

When it comes to being a healer, I think intention is very important.

Personally, I tend to trust those who offer assistance while asking little or nothing in return.

Despite the best intention of the healer, there can be blocks on the part of the person requesting healing that can mitigate or prevent the intended healing.

If this occurs, or someone does not meet unrealistic expectations, are they automatically a fraud?

The greatest healing truly comes from within...

I fully agree with this and will add that the intention on the part of the recipient is important as well. If you desire to be healed your intent must be pure and unadulterated to receive the maximum benefits of a true healer.

[frank samuel]

Wow !!! Resonance is a wide field and is even used by the department of defense to intercept incoming missiles. This is how I became interested it in the solfeggio frequencies.
Some of you already know my story but at least I'll mention it again for the benefit of those that do not know me. About 6 years ago I was diagnosed with lung cancer,a failing collapsed heart a severe bone decay, my left hip bone was not there anymore so I walk with a limp and needless to say very severe pain. I recently had my x-rays done for a follow up with my doctors and the x-ray technician proceeded to call me a liar, I was surprise to hear her say that, so I asked her, why?. Because none of the things you have mention show up in the x-ray, she said. Imagine my surprise, you must be mistaken I said. We looked and review the x-ray . To my amazement my black cancerous lungs where now healthy, my collapsed heart was now back to normal and my left hip had calcify and reform itself back to its original state. How did this happen ? Miracle you say, wow God works in wondrous ways,hallelujah. Well, NO !!!! The truth is I learn a new language, what did you say ? I learn a new language, you see our body is frequency vibration and what is making you sick is that we just don't know how to produce healing frequencies that will maintain your level of health in a normal state. You see your body naturally produces antibodies that help you heal naturally if they can be produce your body can heal. Through the solfeggio and binaural beats my entire being began to heal as it learn to produce these frequencies naturally. Maybe for some of you this makes sense for others I am just writing mumbo jumbo and that's okay too. This is after all only my experience and the experience of my 5 children and many of my friends, a my lying, NO !!! My life is full of Joy and I wish for you the very same thing. Our planet is emitting healing frequencies we just don't know how to listen, that is why I said that I learn a new language, in fact this language is as old as time itself because everything is frequency vibration from the food we eat to the words we speak.

Have a great day everyone specially you Celine!!!

Many many blessings to you and your families....:):thumb::wub:

[Lairenia]

I believe that intention is important -- it is all-important on the part of the Healer. I have to focus my mind very clearly to direct the energy, and I do not think it would help at all if I were to have the issue of personal gain clouding the issue. That's just me -- people do this for a living, and I have no quarrel with them. I have only giving in my focus, not receiving, and that seems to be important.

The issue of intention on the part of the recipient is interesting. It also speaks to earlier posts about the "faith" of the recipient in the process. I have had several experiences where the injured person was not at all on board with the process. They agreed, but only because their pain was terrible. I remember one instance where a man was suddenly stricken with excruciating neck pain, and he was unable to move his head at all, and was crying out in pain. I approached and offered to help, and he said it was "crazy." I agreed, but asked him what he had to lose, since an ambulance was on the way (it looked like stroke to several people). He was crying, and said to go ahead, he couldn't stand the pain.

It took about three minutes, during which time he muttered about the insanity of doing this. I quietly agreed as I worked; he said, when asked at the end, that his pain was still there. I asked him to move his head, he said he couldn't, and then he did -- had full range of motion, and no pain at all. His initial report of continued pain was simply because he believed that the Healing hadn't worked. I warned him that he would be a bit sore for a couple of days, since the muscles had contracted so violently. I left the area immediately, as a crowd had silently gathered and was staring at me with quite a range of emotions. I hate attention, and you could have heard a pin drop in that room of forty or so people. People started shouting thanks, and asking questions, and I answered on the fly as I left, wishing that I could just disappear.

I found the man following me later (we were on a shore excursion from a cruise ship). I answered his questions as fully as I could. He stated that he still didn't believe in Healing. I was perfectly okay with that, and said so.

There have been other instances, including a nine-year old child with a significant bleeding injury in her mouth -- she had had a violent blow to the face, and the braces on her teeth made very deep cuts inside her mouth. I don't think she had a particular opinion about Healing. She just wanted her mother, and she wanted the hurt to stop, and the profuse bleeding terrified her. I stopped the bleeding within three minutes (which was good, since people were trying to shove me away to administer first aid). Later that day, when her mother found a doctor for stitches for the deep cuts (which were totally clean and free of blood and clots when I left her at 10 a.m.), the cuts were completely closed. There was nothing to stitch, no evidence of trauma or swelling.

I cite these as two cases where the person's beliefs didn't seem to enter into the process. It seemed to me more about their Path. If it was their time to experience something "outside the box" that might contribute to their understanding, it happened.

I have also had energy bounce right back at me when I attempted a Healing requested by the injured. Either it wasn't part of their Path, or they didn't really want it to happen. I can usually tell which it is, but the effect is the same -- no Healing. It is the exception rather than the rule, but it happens. Since I have no axe to grind, and no agenda to promote, I simply feel compassion for the person and let it go. They can think whatever they think.

I hope this contributes to the discussion.

[greybeard]

I go with Lairenia on this.
The faith of the person seems to make little difference.
The intention and focus of the "healer" is important.
I trained as Bi-aura therapist also did Reiki training and atunments to the master level/
http://www.bi-aura.com/

There is a lot of info on the bi aura web site.

It cost me about £10,000 in total for all the training I received in several therapies in including hypnotherapy.
Bi aura and hands on my favorite modality.
I was told by the various trainers that I had a gift which could not be taught, however I needed to refine it.
Some Drs are very good some are not, if you want healing go to a qualified practitioner with a success rate, dont be frightened to ask. good ones have letters from happy satisfied clients..

Frank is right in that there is nothing but energy.
Bio energy (Bi-Aura) removes the blockages from the chakra system and therefor frees up the immune system to do what it does.
Its like a jump start. One car has a flat battery and along comes another motor, they connect battery to battery when the job is done the cars move away from each other,
Even though I paid a lot of money to train I was reluctant to charge -- God knows why!!
After some spectacular successes and equally spectacular failures I stopped practising profesionally. I no longer had the vanity that I could or shoud heal the world.
I had started a clinic near Edinburgh but had to close as the money out going on advertising and rent was greater than the income.
I burst an ulcer and ended up in hospital.
Physician heal thy self, laughing
That was 15 years ago, my health is now perfect.
People sometimes find me and thats different.
I could not guarantee a "cure" so possibly thats why I was reluctant to charge.
There also seems to be a karmic aspect as to whether the person is healed or not.
Have they learned all they needed to learn from their dis-ease?
Anyway thats my take on it.

With Love Chris

[HORIZONS]

By "intent" I do not mean "faith" as they are very different. IMHO Faith has to do with belief, and that is mental/mind/soul level; whereas intent (my understanding) is a very deep spiritual level - the spiritual intent of the individual. Unless one is in tune with their spirituality they may not even know/understand their intent. Someone may not have faith to be healed, but their spiritual intent is urning for healing. This is my experience - and how I have witnessed, experienced and understood healing.

~Namaste

[Lairenia]

Ah, Horizons. What you seem to mean by "intent," I would call Path. "Path," to me, is the soul's contract, its "intent" for this lifetime. If I understand you correctly, I agree completely. If it is a soul's Path to experience a malady or injury, then my Healing would be an interference. In fact, I always specify that the Healing must be congruent with the soul's own desires, else I do not intend for it to take place.

Some folk have disagreed with me on this; I say to them that I have my hands full living my own life, my own soul's contract. I have no desire to live someone else's life or to interfere with their Path in any way.

I truly wish to walk lightly upon this school of Earth, and impede no one's journey to the Light.

[HORIZONS]

Ah, Horizons. What you seem to mean by "intent," I would call Path. "Path," to me, is the soul's contract, its "intent" for this lifetime. If I understand you correctly, I agree completely. If it is a soul's Path to experience a malady or injury, then my Healing would be an interference. In fact, I always specify that the Healing must be congruent with the soul's own desires, else I do not intend for it to take place.

Some folk have disagreed with me on this; I say to them that I have my hands full living my own life, my own soul's contract. I have no desire to live someone else's life or to interfere with their Path in any way.

I truly wish to walk lightly upon this school of Earth, and impede no one's journey to the Light.

Yes, I agree with you! Sometimes "words" and our understanding of them can be a hindrance to communication. You have a wonderful spiritual attitude - many blessings to you.

[Celine]

I find it very interesting that we as a community are altering our "mode" of healing.

Individuals are going outside their "box" to find ways to support a better life style and to help treat and cure many of lifes ailments.

Greybeard , thank you for sharring your story...your point of view offers wisdom and perspective to anyone seeking to be a healer, or engage with one.


Thank you frank for your heart felt words..your success is inspiring.

be well all, and know that you are all Love.

[Ross]

Do magnets have health benefits? Can sleeping on a magnetic underlay, wearing a magnetic pad or drinking magnetised water improve your wellbeing? Those pushing magnetic therapy claim that the health benefits can range from simply reducing pain to the extreme, and irresponsible, claim of curing cancer. Do they really work or are they just a scam, a waste of money?


http://www.sillybeliefs.com/magnets.html

Hi Celine, Good thread thankyou.

From my understanding concerning magnetic underlay, pads ect works on this principle. The magnets help to move the iron through the blood stream at a greater rate than normal. Effected area's like back pain, joint pain are helped with faster flowing iron which can aid in reducing inflammation. Thats roughly the official story...

Peace

[Celine]

Thank You Ross...Yes i have know a few people who use this and have found some relief.though not long term.


Heres is some more info from http://www.therionresearch.com/learning-center-articles.html#12

HOW DO MAGNETS HEAL THE BODY?

Some researchers and doctors say that magnets don't actually heal the body. Science knows that the human body is composed of numerous cells that combine to form blood, tissues, bones and organs. These cells are in the constant state of renewing themselves. Dr. Robert Becker, one of the leading medical doctors who advocates the use of magnets in healing, believes that the force which stimulates cellular growth and division is electromagnetic energy.

He and other scientists contend that the charge on the cells of the body gets depleted as cells perform their normal daily functions and that the body tries to "recharge" the worn down cells by sending pulses of electromagnetic energy from the brain through the nervous system.

James Souder, President of Norso Biomagnetics in Raleigh, North Carolina, claims that studies performed on animals, and microscopic examination of blood vessels, indicate that capillary blood flow is stimulated by the movement of magnetic fields through tissue and is the dominant factor in magnetic field therapy.

IS ALL MAGNETIC ENERGY HEALING?

No.

As previously stated, magnetic energy is a basic force of nature and necessary to all biological systems. Magnetic energy pulses from far-off galaxies; the sun showers us with magnetic fields. Our earth, itself a huge electromagnet with north and south poles, protects us from harmful cosmic radiation. Cosmic radiation is so potent that it is capable of penetrating a 12 foot thick block of lead. But it cannot penetrate the earth's protective magnetic shield.

There is increasing evidence that there are harmful effects from high pulsating magnetic energy emitted from power transmission lines, TVs, radios, computers, microwaves and myriad electric appliances. The ordinary 60 cycle alternating electromagnetic fields created by technology seem to exert stress on the body's cellular level. It is reported that they can cause memory loss, headaches, changes in heartbeat and blood chemistry. Melatonin production can be reduced, and the brain's electromagnetic signals to the cells can be blocked, diluting the body's disease-fighting ability.

Studies of exposure to alternating electromagnetic fields have shown mutagenic effects, cancer cell promotion and a lowering of the body's pH to a more acidic level.

In addition, energy deprivation caused by living in concrete buildings also appears to have negative effects on the body. Dr. Kyochi Nakagawa, Director of Isuzu Hospital in Tokyo says that "Magnetic Field Deficiency Syndrome," produces symptoms such as headaches, back and neck pains, insomnia, heaviness of head and general lassitude.

[Candeisr]

This is a very interesting thread. I have come to the conclusion up to this point in my life that we cannot heal anyone but ourselves, but we can assist others in their healing and they heal themselves. I also believe that in order to provide healing assistance one should be able to connect on a Soul level to the person to be healed to determine whether or not we are assisting or stealing the wind from their sails. Another thing that is for sure is the possibility that the healed person will fall back into the old belief system that create the condition in the first place thus reverting back into the illness or dis-ease. Illness or disease is a powerful emotional loop and people can become addicted to it. I also think that if you can't heal yourself you will never effectively heal anyone else.

[Celine]

"I also think that if you can't heal yourself you will never effectively heal anyone else. "

very well said.

So from what i gather..

A Healer who presents themselves as the key to healing... is a fraud

A Healer who teaches you practical tools to heal yourself...is less likely to be a fraud?

So many healers i have spoken to , are filled with ego...talking incessantly about "what famous people they have healed" and how "important their mission to heal is" Rarely do these frauds talk about the patient, or teach them how to heal themselves..because if they did, they would stop going to these fraudulent healers, wouldn't they...

Things that make you go "hmmm"

[Lairenia]

Well, you know, you folks bring up interesting points. I do not Heal myself; however, I can access this Healing function for myself. There is a significant difference, since I am not the conduit for the Healing energy for myself. There are compassionate entities who will support me if I ask them to, and they do, unless I need to experience the difficulty as part of my Path. I am no different than anyone else in that regard -- in most regards, actually. My granddaughter, who is also a gifted Healer, can perform this function for me, as well. So, I cannot exactly agree that one must be able to Heal oneself to be effective. Perhaps it is a fine point, but one that I think is important.

I do most heartily agree that teaching people to help themselves is of tremendous importance. I cannot teach anyone to do what I do, but I can teach them about energetic geometries that they can build around themselves, and energetic shields that they can use, and resources other than myself that they can access on what I call the Spirit Side. We have many friends there who await only our request to swing into action in support of our journeys.

I can also agree that most of the time, at least, a person's own body does the healing, and that what I do enormously accelerates the process. The speed with which these things happens never ceases to amaze me, but they look to me exactly like the normal healing process, only at warp speed. Days of normal healing occur in seconds, as I watch in fascination. I know that I am the vehicle for this process, but so is a garden hose when it brings life-giving water to a flower.

I remind every single person that I Heal and teach and counsel that I am no more important than they are, that to the Prime Creator (God, if you like) each and every soul is equally precious. If I perform what appears to be an impressive feat, it is only that I am doing my job, and they are doing theirs, and our meeting supports us both if we both do what we are supposed to do. Teachers learn as much from teaching as the students do. Healers should be reassured with every Healing that they are doing what they came to do, no more, and no less.

I shudder when people say things to me in gratitude that would separate us. I cannot lift twenty-five pounds. I cannot do more than four hours work in the kitchen before my energy flags. Yet, I do what I can do, and others do what they can do, and all together we can do a very fine job, indeed.

[Candeisr]

Lairenia, I would never desire to demean your beautiful abilities by my course general statement. It is obvious to me that you have a fabulous gift. It may be that the true gift of experience you give to those that you heal is an experience of the miraculous that is outside their belief system. That one healing may be the life changing experience that nudges them into more expansive lives. After all, healing is really about letting go of the limitations that we ourselves have created. Thank you so much for posting your experiences here. They have truly uplifted me and given me food for thought.

[Lairenia]

Goodness, Candeisr, I didn't mind what you said! It just seemed to call for a thoughtful response from someone who had a slightly different point of view on the matter.

My experience is bound to be different from yours. My gifts, and I have more than one, are different from yours. So, it stands to reason that we will each see things from a different perspective. Everyone's gifts are marvelous, whatever they are. Let us rejoice in our different points of view, and learn from each other. I am very slow to take offense...

You are so right -- people are often frightened of the "magic" that they don't understand. I'm sorry to see it, because we are all magical, hemmed in only by our own perceptions of our limitations. When I cross someone's Path and provide the trigger that lets them see outside the box, I am truly blessed. That "light bulb" of personal power that goes on in someone's eyes is my most precious experience.

May your own Light continue to shine upon us all...

[Connecting with Sauce]

Rife machines


Cheating death

Sydney Morning Herald - December 30, 2000

Cancer sufferers have died after putting their faith in a device with electrical parts worth just $15. Ben Hills reports.

The doctor said he might not see Christmas. It was the winter of 1996 and David Carpenter, a 69-year-old retired railway worker, had inoperable cancer of the prostate gland. He had been sent home to die in the village of Geurie, on the western plains of NSW, in the fibro cottage where he lived with his wife of nearly half a century, Madge, and his son, Des. As the disease inexorably advanced, he took to his bed.

Flicking through Nexus, an alternative magazine published from Mapleton, Queensland, which features articles on UFOs, miracle cures and conspiracy theories, Des saw an advertisement headlined "Rife Technology".

Underneath was this claim: "A brilliant new Walkman-style personal therapy system, offers a comprehensive range of frequencies from common colds and flu to the most serious debilitating and degenerative diseases, including arthritis and cancer."

Des rang the 1800 number in the ad and was assured that not only would the device, called a Personal Electro Therapy or PET machine, treat his father's cancer, but it could be tuned to frequencies that would cure his own chronic fatigue syndrome and his mother's arthritis. "I wouldn't normally fall for something like this, but you have to understand we were desperate," says Des. He and his mother borrowed money against their invalid pensions and sent $1,425 to a company called Electromed (Australia) Pty Ltd, which sent them a small black box decorated with flashing lights, some wiring, two nylon pads and a copy of a book, The Cancer Cure that Worked - Fifty Years of Suppression, by an American "investigative journalist", Barry Lynes.


for the rest of the article...

http://www.healthwatcher.net/quackerywatch/Cancer/Cancer-news/smh001230rife-aus.html

This lady, Nenah sylver, has written a whole book on this subject...

More information available here http://www.nenahsylver.com/

She recently did an interview with Oneradio network which is also worth a listen.

I did a lot a research into these devices and the GB4000 seems to be a good one, not cheap but does all the frequencies. Royal Raymond Rife was curing people of cancer in the 1920's "alegidly" before all his research and microscopes were damaged,,, With all these things with regards healing you can't expect to zap yourself, kill all the bad bacteria and be back at work the following day,... I'd expect a herxheimer reaction if nothing else... http://www.silver-colloids.com/Pubs/herxheimer.html If the person has is so ill they have cancer they have some serious healing to do (gradually) with a good natrapath to get themselves better and zapping with a rife machine will be one thing to help them of their way...

Here is a recent movie replicating what Rife was doing in the 1920's...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-661201775015095955#

BTW I also do healing and some people say I'm reasonable effective... but I don't make any claims.

[Rocky_Shorz]

I have watched healers, and have seen miracles...

but I have also watched an angel say no and turn away from helping...

Healers need to understand the power working through them, they aren't the ones doing the healing...

I watched one who said "she was a Goddess that could heal"

The angels let her draw the disease into herself and she passed away within a few weeks...

be very careful how you present yourself, and who you give the credit... ;)


Wielding the power of God is not the same as being one...

[morse101]

Thanks so much for the article on Rife Machines Celine, I have been doing some research on google and found a file called "The Royal Rife Story (inventor of electromagnetic cancer therapy) (2004).avi" it's a documentary I downloaded via a torrent file so you may have to append the word "torrent" to the file name when searching. It actually showed how it is possible to kill living pathogens with different frequencies. There have been many similar machines on the market that did not work as well or where not tested to make sure they did work so many people don't believe the technology works. Apparently anything living has a frequency and when exposed to the correct destructive frequency it will be destroyed. I found this subject very interesting ,thanks :)

[Connecting with Sauce]

Why Rife was grouped with this "topic of fraudulent healers" I do not know without also stating that Rife machines and Rife researchers are doing good also hence my post... I can't help but sence that this topic is supposed to add tar to the Rife machines without the balance to say that some people are doing some good research into these topics AND are not fraudulent...

For those seeking the truth I would suggest looking into this site
http://www.nenahsylver.com/

...and listening to the interview on oneradionetwork to see if Nenah Sylver Resonates with the person interested in finding out more.

[paul1972]

Let's make the distinction between Royal Rife's work and the so called "Rife"machines on the market.

When you study the subject it becomes clear that some devices aren't very effective and most important of ALL

Without a good diagnosis, treatment can't be effective as we need to know the EXACT frequencies ...

Greetings

Paul

[Celine]

Connecting with sauce...

I see your point of view. My intent with this thread is to focus on the fraudulent side of these issues, since most here know alot about the positive effects...

i to seek balance.

To often, online, people offer "healing" using machines the bought online...or just by selling objects that claim to heal ..

So much dis information in the healing "industry"....and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to say "industry" and healing in the same sentence...but sadly it is a huge industry...and many get taken advantage of.

[haibane]

But there must be more then anecdotal evidence ?

Hi Céline,　I've also been researching those subjects on the internet, for almost a decade now. At first the information was scarce and stuff like the Rife machine seemed too far out to believe, not to mention all the quackery and also smear the subject naturally attracts. There must obviously be more than anecdotal evidence for most of the techniques, but you will hardly find it on-line, as gathering and publishing data in this area would likely be considered a medical research, which, unless conducted by a licensed subject, would be illegal. Another problem I see is that the communities around those particular techniques don't seem to communicate with each other a lot, or even mention there is something else, and this reminds me quite a bit of the animosity between computer platform fanboys (Amiga/Atari/Apple/PC ...), which in essence results in 'compartmentalisation' of those subjects.

Besides those who use nothing but their own powers to heal others, there are a few major healing 'platforms' that I'm aware of:

• The Rife Machine: according to the available literature, this has been developed before WWII and underwent official medical trials, which were successful and published in official peer-reviewed medical science journal, after which it was suppressed. So there would be your chance to find more than just anecdotal evidence, as those journals must still be in libraries or private collections (but I didn't dig deeper so far).

• Bob Beck's protocol: a principle essentially similar to the Rife's machine, but much simpler. The whole protocol consists of a pocket-size frequency generator, colloidal silver and ozonated water, which makes this protocol a bit of a hybrid between MMS and the Rife machine, as the later two parts are meant to deliver oxygen into the body. This is based on actual patented technology from early 1990's, so again, there is more than just anecdotal evidence, as the patenting process would require a peer-reviewed clinical study. Again, I haven't dug deeper beyond the anecdotal 'evidence', but I'm told that colloidal silver is being used by NASA on the ISS. Also ozone therapies seem to be available in many countries (definitely where I'm from) without anyone making any fuss about it. (It seems curious to me that this seems to never have been discussed on PA)

• Hemp oil: I'm using a hemp oil salve (sorry, dunno if it's the correct English word ; -) for minor things and it seems to work fine, but again, for the major stuff there's nothing but anecdotal evidence beyond first-hand experience.

• MMS: I told about this to a friend of mine last year - he was extremely sceptic about it at first, as he's educated chemistry and stuff, and he is saying the processes / chemical reactions at work are actually much more complicated than what is described by Jim Humble. Nevertheless the stuff cured him from a really bad flu in a few days and afterwards he helped quite a few others with it as well. Interestingly when he enquired his MMS supplier, who happens to be his personal acquaintance, about the chemistry, he was advised not to dig too deep ；-）

A lot of this can be found on YouTube and by Google, but still, all this remains anecdotal evidence unless you try some of those yourself or know personally someone who did it.

[Grizzom]

648

I suffer severe pain from a botched spinal fusion operation and been to Vicodanland and oxyville and it nearly killed me.

Ive tryed every quack pain cure out there and I find drinking 2 ltrs of clean water everyday helps and I smoke a joint when it gets to severe.

I believe in self healing but I have all this metal in my back and I don't think "Energy Healing" will work?

Am I damaged goods now?

I can't undo what the quack doctors have done and it's very depressing.

[Celine]

I want to mention on this thread how i have had personal experience with another member here who CLAIMS to be a healer. I am not allowed to name this member as that would go against guidelines...but here is my story...


About a year ago, my husband began working for bill on the forum. My husband and i work very long hours running our own business as well as taking care of a full family...I found myself, missing his company, as he would spend hours on end, doing techie stuff on the forum.

I decided i would try to implicate myself in the activity that my husband enjoys so much...so i joined Project avalon.

Now i am not well versed in the subjects that are talked about on PA , but i am very opinionated. So i found myself getting involved on a personal level with the forum, and also volunteering time at the chat room greeting new members and helping with questions.

There is also another reason i am here. All my life i have had questions about certain dreams and memories that have plagued ..and i thought i could find someone to help here..

I asked richard for advice on who at the forum he thought could help me...so i started to make connections.

This one member in particular, offered to heal me. This member would spend hours and hours on skype with me, playing music and making me laugh, telling me all sorts of niceties... "i love you" "you are beautiful" "you are special".

This member would help me to sleep, and avoid the debilitating nightmares...This member said they could help heal me using a rife machine and certain frequency techniques that this member learned from Ingo Swan himself!

Nightly this member would get me to listen to music of their choosing...i was not getting better...i was getting worse.

i started hemorrhaging, gynocologicaly....

i asked this member to help me... this members answer was to say, that they had been working on "forcing" a bleed, because this was the only way doctors would operate...this member..this healer...REALLY wanted the doctors to operate on me.

At this point both richard and i started doubting this individual...

This was the beginning of the end...of my friendship with this member.

A flimsy excuse was given by this member , and richard and i were told, out of the ...blue... that this member refused to be our friend anymore..

Needless to say i was taken aback... i was still very ill...and feeling quite...lost.

i found myself crying for this loss...

again...lied to..used... and thrown away..

Seems a reoccurent theme in my life.

So recently i had tried to "mend ties" ..in a very APPROPRIATE manner...and the response was a very PUBLIC statement...about mental illness that was filled with innuendo aimed at Richard and i.

i am bi polar... and this "healer" knows that

Since this time...there has been many posts that have been insulting , they have all been reported...

As some older members of PA would testify to... it is ok, to insult celine on PA.

No one wants to do anything about it because they fear members will scream.."favoritism".. shrug, i guess thats understandable..but from what i gather from some of Bills posts...insulting members, even in private is NOT accepted on PA..unless you are celine ofcourse.



i am NOT allowed to publicaly name this individual ...IMO anyone claiming to be a healer..or to run a healing thread...needs to live up to some kind of expectations...unless at PA we support all kinds of quaks...

Have you had any bad experiences with healers on PA? online?

i am still healing from the scars left from my experience...i hope you are well,

love,
celine

[Ammit]

Celine.
I am sorry to read your story. I do not claim to be a healer but I have been told I have helped people either personally up close or via the net. I do not use any gadgets, just my mind. I cannot prove that i actually did heal, i just have to rely on the honesty of those who have said it. I would never claim my fame as calling myself a healer but if i can bring a little ease to peoples pain then so be it. I can live with that..

Sorry meant to add: I suppose there are those that do claim such things, proof is always good but sometimes imposible.

Ammit

[Anchor]

Celine,

Forgiveness is an important part of healing. Forgiveness and acceptance of self.

John..

[Celine]

Important... and seemingly impossible..

Not sure which of those is harder.

To forgive a trespass done to oneself...would mean to "devalue" the wrong done...

yet..

To accept self.....would be easier, if there was less value applied to the wrong...


hmm

Any opinion as to why such value is placed on the "wrong" ?

[Richard]

Important... and seemingly impossible..
Not sure which of those is harder.

To forgive a trespass done to oneself...would mean to "devalue" the wrong done...

yet..

To accept self.....would be easier, if there was less value applied to the wrong...


Perhaps forgiveness of a trespass done is not devaluing the wrong but turning a negative to a positive. A switch of polarity if you will. With forgiveness comes peace and self healing. The wrong becomes a tool to a higher state of being.



Love

[Celine]

Yes i can see that clearly... more a ladder then a tool..

But a switch in polarity does not negate the negative impact... it just turns the light on.

Thank you for this advice...

Though my intent is not only to find healing, at this point...nor do i intend this to seem like an invite to a pity party...

it is to expose frauds...

[Agape]

What about...bringing the nightmares up to light , to share more about it on open board , dear Ceiline ?
We're many here with quite some experience, I'm sure someone would know and could help.

I'm sorry for what has happened to you , being trapped in emotional venture on net promising to heal your hurts and ending up with more is not unusual from what I've seen during the very few years I'm on internet .
But then again, you must be ready to step back and look deeply to your heart and admit some responsibility at least, for continuing in such a 'therapeutic relationship' eventhough you knew from session no ..4 what is going to be about , and you still asked for more ,
for reasons known only to you.

And allow me to say, how lucky you are to have your husband at your side ..


There might be more responsibility you Both need to assume of each each, your souls, away from computers .


Please share in open...may all be healed



:grouphug:

[Anchor]

Important... and seemingly impossible..

Not sure which of those is harder.

To forgive a trespass done to oneself...would mean to "devalue" the wrong done...

yet..

To accept self.....would be easier, if there was less value applied to the wrong...


hmm

Any opinion as to why such value is placed on the "wrong" ?

I am sorry you feel such hurt.

I dont think that it is impossible. The challenge is to find and process all the things that seemingly make it impossible. One of those things, which appears evident from your above words, is the significance you place on the "value" of something that is done wrong. For this to be reduced to "valueless" you have to release it. Its "value" comes from your own consideration of it.

Everything happens for a reason. Every nice thing, and everything that starts out seeming like a good idea, but ending up, unfortunately, turning out as somewhat other than intended.

Can you thoroughly review and analyse the experience, free of judgement, in the light of unconditional love? Thereby distilling out from the catalytic experience - pearls of personal wisdom? Then, after accepting the quantum leaps in personal wisdom, release the rest and move forward?

I posit that were these things possible, including forgiveness of those involved (including yourself), then rapid and total healing would be possible - at all levels of being.

Healing is the acceptance of a new state of beingness, free from the distortions that caused the requirement for healing in the first place.

I hope this makes sense - if it does not, please fire away with more questions

John..

[Beth]

it is to expose frauds...

That's how it seemed to me! :)

[Celine]

What about...bringing the nightmares up to light

That would be an interesting turn of events... being that vunerable, here...is a very very brave step. You honor me with your advice.

Yes i take ownership of my need to ...feel... often a blind choice.

Richard being with me, is the luckiest thing that ever happened in my life..i agree dear Eva

[Celine]

[QUOTE=John;42760]I am sorry you feel such hurt.

I dont think that it is impossible.



Thank you John... Hope, is a wonderful gift to share.

[Anchor]

Celine,

Another thought occurs to me concerning the use of the word "Fraud" in the context of this thread.

Wikipedia has a nice definition: "In the broadest sense, a fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual; the related adjective is fraudulent." ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud )

In your case.... were you defrauded? Did you pay money? Or were you simply let down, and in someway goaded into a path which transferred the reponsibility for the healing to a third party (- almost always a bad idea by the way - sorry) - which ended up not turning out as expected?

Was there simply an error, a misplaced trust. Who made the error? You or the person offering healing?

The person offering the healing - do you know for sure that they intended to do other than heal - and thereby profit regardless?

It seems to me that free from judgements about right and wrong, what has happened fits the very definition of catalyst - for both you and the healer.

(I hope I am helping and not making this worse for you...)

John..

[Celine]

Not at all John, thank you for your straight forward post.

Perhaps i used the word in the wrong context?

i believe fraud to also mean, misrepresenting oneself..

PA has had its share of that...non?

[Dale]

This thread reminds me of a quote by Dr. Albert Schweitzer:

"Each patient carries her or his own doctor inside."

There are a million silly medical devices, cures, and potions floating around today. Still, the best medicine isn't "out there," but within. I support living a balanced lifestyle; physically, mentally, and spiritually. Seeking balance leads to a healthier life in all three of the latter categories. A little bit of positivity goes a long way.

[Rimbaud]

Hi Celine

I have healed myself by practicing the Maharic Seal. My story is quite interesting as I was severely ill for a long time and no official doctor could do anything for me.

Since then I have had not need even to use an aspirin

We are made of energy, if someone can find where the energy is blocked healing is possible, self healing is even more effective

There are also a lot of quacks too so always use your discernment

Love

Dear Stardustaquarion,

I wish that you could heal my cousin who is in the last stages of Sarcoidossis

Rimbaud

[Anchor]

Not at all John, thank you for your straight forward post.

Perhaps i used the word in the wrong context?

i believe fraud to also mean, misrepresenting oneself..

PA has had its share of that...non?

It has.

I think you may have missed a point I was making in that post. So, in answer to my rhetorical question, perhaps you didnt use the word fraud in the wrong context.

Let's say that, hypothetically, someone believes themselves to be a healer and offers to help; not knowing that in fact they are acutally crap at it and do not have any detailed grasp on what they are doing! At this stage, we know, because its a hypothesis and we are looking at it from the outside, that this is a recepie for disaster. However, nothing bad has actually happened yet.

The intent was to help, and the "healer" offers the help, and the offer is accepted. The intent to help is sometimes all that is needed to effect a healing - if only temporary. I'd say so far so good.

Things go wrong. Normally the worst you would expect is for nothing to happen, but for whatever reason things get worse. Perhaps the normal rigours and safeguards, protections, askance for guidance, help and protection were not made, whatever the reason, the scene is set for a classic integrity test.

So the hypothetical healer has come up against a wall of complexity that they have no firm grasp on why or how or what to do.

At this point, the (terrible) mistake is to fail to admit you are out of your depth. To carry on and pretend that you know what you are doing is fraud! It has all the ingredients: there is intent to deceive and the gain is none other than the maintenance of a charade that you are succesful healer.

Things are now karmically very complex - real harm is done - to both parties.

Does that clarify it?

I suspect that harm was not initially intended, but perhaps (again I can only speculate) a moment of dishonesty over-rode all the safeguards and protections that would otherwise work to mitigate and avoid unnecessary harm - and potentially breached the protections surrounding such work that would have seriously harmful consequences.

It is also a factor in this, that needs stating, though it can be like rubbing salt in a wound, but I need to explain this: you are responsible for what you allow to be done to you - which is why it is so important for everything that a healer does to be done with the explicit agreement of the healed. To my mind this is why forgiveness of others also involves forgiveness of the self.

John..

[Celine]

Yes it does clarify..

And i can agree with the hypothetical situation , to an extent.

i have no issues admitting my mistakes or faults..i know who and what i am...

This member, used their "position" as healer to gain knowledge about me and then used it against me on the forum,...who is to say it could not happen to another member?

[Rimbaud]

Not at all John, thank you for your straight forward post.

Perhaps i used the word in the wrong context?

i believe fraud to also mean, misrepresenting oneself..

PA has had its share of that...non?

Celine..you have all of our love..I can't understand why you're having to answer critics in this thread..just be confident in your own beliefs and be brave and stand your ground!...Really, if thread openers stand to be abused like this..then no new topics will ever be opened..as no-one will dare to open them.

Rimbaud

[Beth]

John, I believe you are being a sweetheart and very much wanting to help. But I think Celine's intention is to send out a cautionary message to others, not look for sympathy or explanation. Just felt that I should add that.

[Anchor]

John, I believe you are being a sweetheart and very much wanting to help. But I think Celine's intention is to send out a cautionary message to others, not look for sympathy or explanation. Just felt that I should add that.

Thanks. I feel both goals are acheived.

I have done my best to present a perspective in which the possiblity of resolution can be seen. The initial catalyst for me contributing more than the few words I did initially was the notion that it was "impossible" to forgive (post 50 in this thread) - and therefore accept healing as the two are nearly inseperable.

I harbour a thought that really Celine would like to bring down some "goddess wrath" on this person, who cannot be named, and burn him/her to a cinder after first removing some anatomical parts and have them presented skewered on a stake, perhaps attached to a nearby bridge... but alas.. it would not help in the long run :)

John..

[greybeard]

My heart goes out to you Celine and Richard.
A lot has has already been said on the thread which is good and beneficial so I will just talk in generalities.
No person is a healer. Its like a car battery is flat and along comes another car which jump starts the other (intention that healing will take place, Cosmic law and Karma being a factor) Then the first car recharges its own battery all being well.
Having being privilege to be the channel for some healing to take place for other who have asked for this to happen,and it did not always happen.
I believe it is a mistake to think that an individual is doing the healing, that is that person controlling and of the ego.
I ask Christ, Ascended Masters, Holy spirit for healing to take place if it is the will of Creator.
I never say how the healing should take place, how would I know what is best for anyone?
I then tend to go into a meditative state with out trying to and sometimes feel the healing energy come down through the crown chakra and either sense it coming out of the palms of my hands or heart chakra.
The end result is down to those asked, Christ etc and the Self of the receiving individual.
Claiming to personally heal is to my mind, self deception.
When it all goes wrong it is an opportunity to forgive and learn.
Forgiving is quite different from condoning an inappropriate act or claim.
Once forgiveness is given it is best to let go of the event completely or one begins to hurt one self.
No inappropriate act goes unnoticed and attracts the energy of karma and cosmic law, which is fair and infallible.
What one has created returns to one in equal measure.
Hope this is helpful.
With Love
Chris

[Tuza]

I want to mention on this thread how i have had personal experience with another member here who CLAIMS to be a healer. I am not allowed to name this member as that would go against guidelines...but here is my story...


About a year ago, my husband began working for bill on the forum. My husband and i work very long hours running our own business as well as taking care of a full family...I found myself, missing his company, as he would spend hours on end, doing techie stuff on the forum.

I decided i would try to implicate myself in the activity that my husband enjoys so much...so i joined Project avalon.

Now i am not well versed in the subjects that are talked about on PA , but i am very opinionated. So i found myself getting involved on a personal level with the forum, and also volunteering time at the chat room greeting new members and helping with questions.

There is also another reason i am here. All my life i have had questions about certain dreams and memories that have plagued ..and i thought i could find someone to help here..

I asked richard for advice on who at the forum he thought could help me...so i started to make connections.

This one member in particular, offered to heal me. This member would spend hours and hours on skype with me, playing music and making me laugh, telling me all sorts of niceties... "i love you" "you are beautiful" "you are special".

This member would help me to sleep, and avoid the debilitating nightmares...This member said they could help heal me using a rife machine and certain frequency techniques that this member learned from Ingo Swan himself!

Nightly this member would get me to listen to music of their choosing...i was not getting better...i was getting worse.

i started hemorrhaging, gynocologicaly....

i asked this member to help me... this members answer was to say, that they had been working on "forcing" a bleed, because this was the only way doctors would operate...this member..this healer...REALLY wanted the doctors to operate on me.

At this point both richard and i started doubting this individual...

This was the beginning of the end...of my friendship with this member.

A flimsy excuse was given by this member , and richard and i were told, out of the ...blue... that this member refused to be our friend anymore..

Needless to say i was taken aback... i was still very ill...and feeling quite...lost.

i found myself crying for this loss...

again...lied to..used... and thrown away..

Seems a reoccurent theme in my life.

So recently i had tried to "mend ties" ..in a very APPROPRIATE manner...and the response was a very PUBLIC statement...about mental illness that was filled with innuendo aimed at Richard and i.

i am bi polar... and this "healer" knows that

Since this time...there has been many posts that have been insulting , they have all been reported...

As some older members of PA would testify to... it is ok, to insult celine on PA.

No one wants to do anything about it because they fear members will scream.."favoritism".. shrug, i guess thats understandable..but from what i gather from some of Bills posts...insulting members, even in private is NOT accepted on PA..unless you are celine ofcourse.



i am NOT allowed to publicaly name this individual ...IMO anyone claiming to be a healer..or to run a healing thread...needs to live up to some kind of expectations...unless at PA we support all kinds of quaks...

Have you had any bad experiences with healers on PA? online?

i am still healing from the scars left from my experience...i hope you are well,

love,
celine

Dear Celine,

I myself am on Lithium and Efexor-XR 150 mg for my bipolar. After my third child, immediately after the birth I went to an extremely bad post natal psychosis, right in the hospital. How I got through that period in my life with everyone still breathing was a miracle, because I did pray.

Sometimes I read on the forums oh you will stuff up your system by taking this, taking that, you can get off your meds and feel a whole lot better................:rolleyes: I am telling them, walk in my shoes for a week and see what you feel. If I dont take my depression med which is Efexor-XR and I get clinically depressed then the show would definitely be over; been there, done that and my sister had to cart me off to hospital asap because she still wanted me to be around and I did not want to. So to those people who have not got a clue about what it is about..........let's just say they can argue with me on or off the forum.

Celine I have nightmares too. Because I have been a secretary since 1970 and worked right through having the children while they were growing up without any support whatsoever or empathy from my husband after 31 years of abuse I left in January last year. I developed really bad neck pain and after an MRI I was diagnosed with stenosis in my C5, osteophytes and nerve narrowing. The neurosurgeons will not take operate until I develop neuropathy in my arms and legs, so for the neck spasms I am also on Mersyndol and valium; the pain can be debilitating I tell you.

I am now living with my elderly mother until my settlement comes through which has been an absolute nightmare because my ex who I am divorced from is fighting tooth and nail to give as less as he can. My adult children arent talking to me because they think they will lose their inheritance if their father and I hook up with someone else...............so I have got nothing but crap from them.

I am here for you honey, know what it is about and as I said after what I have gone through anyone wants to argue they can do it with me off forum.

The worst thing about the whole thing is that my daughter also has this illness and should know what its like, but she has not had any kids yet and my illness got incredibly bad after having children.

Love

Tuza

[CetaceousOne]

I want to mention on this thread how i have had personal experience with another member here who CLAIMS to be a healer

I also have had "personal" experience with the individual that is being referred to here, and consider them a valued friend.

I cannot comment on what happened between this person and Celine, as that is between them.

What I can say is this person has helped me immensely over the past 8 months to feel better than I thought
possible at this time. There was no magical, miraculous sweeping away of my pain and problems.

There was much love, understanding, patience and perseverance on the part of this person to assist me in
recovering from a chronic illness and to find my way again. There was a sharing of knowledge and
a provision to me of tools I could use to help myself. There was trust.

Selfless, kind, generous, gifted, and giving are but a few words to describe this person.

Perfect? Infallible? Omnipotent? No. Human-just like the rest of us right now.

Sometimes, even with the best of intentions, things just don't happen the way we intend.

If someone tried to help me with my permission and ended up failing or even making things worse in
the process, I would like to think that I would focus on the intention that person held, rather than the
end result, however different from what I was expecting. I would want nothing less if the situation were
reversed.....

That said... I don't believe a thread is the appropriate place to air grievances.

I request a moderator to kindly LOCK THIS THREAD.

Sincerely,

C1

[Celine]

He DID NOT have permission to force a bleed.<----------------that is my point

And an understanding person..doesnt make derogatory comments about mental illness , when they know that person suffers from it.

I bet many dangerous healers have some success...never said they did not.

My personal issues with this member are not the problem..

The problem is the pub;lic and abusive retaliation for an attempt at reconciliation.

the problem is the negative impact this person has on the forum IMO.

i am glad to hear you have been helped...

People who understand love...dont abuse others

People who live in light...dont put others down.

i state my own experiences clearly ...

i wont be bullied anymore...

Promise.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

not appropriate place? so a profile page is the right place to insult ppl with mental illness?

MODS wont/cant stop this member...so i will bring it out in public for debate...

¤=[Post Update]=¤

i never commented on this person until this person publicaly insulted me...i am not a mean person...but if no one fights to protect me...i have to.

[morguana]

MODS wont/cant stop this member...so i will bring it out in public for debate...


dear celine, i dont think its that we are not stepping in but more to do with needing to reach a conclusion on how to handle this situation, ross is off line atm, im in the middle of school summer hols (so havent been around much) as are some of the other mods. we need to be sure that what we do is for the higher good of the forum, so i would like to ask for some patience with regards to this issue. may i suggest that all involved hit the ignore button on their settings untill we can come to an agreement on how we should respond.
i empathise with your frustration
love m

[Celine]

i wont ignore innuendo directed at me.

i will stand up formyself,

i reported his behavior more then 2 weeks ago...his innuendo continues..

his derogatory comments are not remouved.

Rare does ANY mod reply to ANY of the reports....

I believe members here deserve to be heard by the MODS and responded to.

Avalon MOD chat is not the only place MODS should converse..

We, all members, need to have a more open connection to MODS.

If a derogatory comment was said about another member... what does the guidelines say?

"leave it there for days while we discuss it"?????

from what i remember...insults..public or private...are not allowed here...correct?

is there a different set of rules for celine?

i keep seeing that target painted on my face...

¤=[Post Update]=¤

my daughter is a member on the forum now....if he insults her...how long will the insult remain public?

[morguana]

I'm locking this thread as it goes against forum guidlines......please all involved in this issue take time away and cool off
M
Edit to add please also reread forum guidlines, many thx