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lysander
11th February 2014, 10:47
There's been something niggling me for a while, there's a school of thought that says we are put on earth to learn lessons, more specifically that we are coming back to learn something we didn't grasp last time. I hear examples such as previously you had such and such a problem and in this life you're being positioned to overcome the previous problem and learn the lesson.

My problem understanding this is: at the higher level where our "higher consciousness" is positioning us into a situation to learn a lesson, that lesson is clearly known by the higher self already, and that higher self being us. ie we already know this lesson on some level.

One explanation for this may be that we're experiencing these lessons in fragmented linear time, where as our higher consciousness experiences it all "now".

Before we start getting into arguments over terminology I'm classing the level of knowing that is sending us here as not yet back to source, so for example some may say "over soul" others "higher consciousness" etc.

Johnny
11th February 2014, 11:18
Years back, a spiritual woman told me we are here on earth to learn a lesson. I asked her: "What will happen when I have learned that lesson. Will I then die ?" She looked down a couple of seconds, and suddenly raised her head with a broad smile and said: " No, then you will have a new lesson". It seemed as she never had given it a thought about that lesson stuff.

IMO Nobody is putting us 'down here', it is pure kind of attraction. We can not get away from earth realms as long we are attracted by what ever.

About lessons: Yes there are something to learn, first of all: what will it say to learn and I mean really learn (NOT the way we did in the school), second: then we are able to learn about attractions, that what make our so called life.

Much love Johnny :)

Sunny-side-up
11th February 2014, 11:28
I am of the understanding/knowing that upon death most souls get hi-jacked (The Light), trapped and then knowledge erased (We are made into subservient, dumb-down slaves) and so come back needing to re-find that which we once knew, that which we should own and be able to use from an early age!

There has been much debate and progress with this issue within Avalon posts.

This i believe is a big pivotal factor within the tangled and unjust mess that has infected Earth and the Human race!

But there is a greater percent coming back with a higher percentage of knowledge retained now, such are the times we are in!

One of my missions this time round is to be part of and help make sure any possible trap dose not catch me again but more importantly to gather momentum and help bring true light to a greater percent of souls so they brake the trap as well! This in many ways is now happening and we will be our True-Higher-Being-Selves-on-Earth and fully awake together!

Old prison Earth's doors are opening now, shackles are dissolving as the vale/illusion/trap is becoming obvious and washed away with the old dirty lining in this 3D material realm

S-L
11th February 2014, 11:39
My spiritual practice (http://www.newmessage.org) has a different way of looking at reincarnation.

Yes, the laws of karma are there to help us learn from our mistakes, but it is not the central reason behind being here. We are here to make a contribution to humanity. The ultimate achievement is to bring a little piece of heaven and express it here in this state of Separation. Then we can truly say that we have "finished" Separation (http://www.newmessage.org/the-separation) and are ready for greater challenges elsewhere. Karma is a necessary learning mechanism to bring us to the point where we're ready to make that ultimate contribution, but it's not the end-goal of reincarnation (http://www.newmessage.org/wiki/index.php?title=Reincarnation) itself. The end goal is always contribution - regardless what dimension you are operating in.

"It is like a tour of duty. It is like a mission. It is like going from a wonderful place to a difficult place to make a contribution. That is what being in the world is to your soul.

"When this life is over and you return to your Spiritual Family (http://www.newmessage.org/wiki/index.php?title=Spiritual_Family), they will only have one question for you, and that is whether you made your sacred rendezvous in life and gave your gifts to the world. And in that moment you will know with absolute clarity whether you did or did not. There is no punishment here, but the weight of failure is great. It means you will have to try again, and go through the whole process all over again. That should be incentive enough to encourage most people to proceed."

universe
11th February 2014, 13:31
These are all very nice explanations, but in the end we all must admit we just don't know !!!!!
What is the point of a lesson if you can't remember what the lesson is or even if you are going in the direction for maximum learning.
No matter how you try to explain it, all it becomes is another concept or another confining definition. The moment we try to describe with a limiting consciousness the more we limit the possibility that we will break through our amnesia and truly fully awaken in this physical form.
Perhaps the veil of this illusion is being produced by the ego that has so identified with this form that it will do anything to prevent an awakening.

sirdipswitch
11th February 2014, 14:28
We don't need lessons. We already know all that is. We only come here to experience. One of our biggest problems, is other beings, from other worlds, coming here thinking they are helping us. As Spirit, we would be just as happy, if we were still living in caves, in harmony with Nature.

Our materialism, that we learned from ETs', is killing us, and our planet. When we, and our planet, are dead, we will start over... again... and again... untill we "remember" to refuse to accept intervention.

But then, that's the very nature of this game we play. It's why we come here.

IT"S FUN!!!! chuckle chuckle chuckle.

Let me see if I can explain this for ya. How do you want to play this game? This time? How long have we been playing this game? This time? Think of the Universe as a circle. It just keeps going round and round, like that ol snake, eating its' tail. What's it called? Oh yah,
"Ouroboros".
That's the Universe. It just keeps going round and round, and we have no idea how many times we have 'already' went round this circle. "OR", how many more times we will go round it. Source sure ain't gettin tired of it , cuz He just keeps on spitting out new Spirits to populate it, as it grows. And grow it does. Each time we go round it gets a little bigger, with a few more races, to add their two cents worth.

How long does a 'round' take? You can't count the number of zeros in the years that it takes to go round just once. And you can't count the zeros in the number of times we have already done this. And, you can't count the number of zeros in the number of times we will do it all again.

Can you say... Infinity?

Sooo... don't worry about "Tomorrow"... it 'will' come.:wizard:

rgray222
11th February 2014, 16:12
The things that I am certain of are;

We (our souls) were created by someone or something
We came to earth from somewhere
We (our souls) inhabit a physical body for our short time on earth
On earth we have very strong connections to certain people, places and vocations
When our bodies die our soul or consciousness does not end, it leaves the body and goes someplace.


The earliest and strongest memory that I have is asking to be born, almost pleading to come back to earth in physical form. This memory has been with me since the age of about three years old. This memory consists of an elderly man holding the hands of two children, one about 7 or 8 (I believe this child is me) and the other about 4 or 5 years of age. The three of us are standing on some sort of ledge just before being born on earth.

This world we live in is a very confusing place and it is extremely hard to figure out why certain things are the way they are;

We have incredible poverty and at the same time unimaginable wealth
We have people who are the epitome of health while others are born into sickness
We have corruption and at the same time people with concern and honesty
We have war in some parts of the world and peace in other parts.
We experience incredible acts of kindness and horrific acts of evil

The point is that many people are looking for some higher form of enlightenment or higher consciousness to explain this confusion. Whether we like it or not we are blessed or cursed with intentional amnesia and it seems impossible to break through this barrier. A lot of people feel that if the veil were lifted it would give answers as to our existence and alleviate the confusion that we all experience.

Many of us feel that we are here to learn lessons an if we don't get those lessons right we are destined to come back and do it until we do get it right. That puts us into the category of being nothing more than school children.

I think that we are here to experience every conceivable emotion possible. We are here to gain a base of knowledge that will help our souls evolve into something better. To what end, I am not sure. I am not even sure if the journey is more important than the destination.

Sometimes I think it is more important, or it could be more revealing to focus on where we came from as opposed to where we are going. The one thing that I am sure of is that we must have an awareness of the journey. We must understand that it is our soul or spirit is on this journey and the human life we are living is just a small, but important part of a much longer road we are all travelling.

Maybe we can break through the barrier of amnesia when we start thinking in three dimensions, we came from somewhere, we are having a human experience now and we will be going somewhere when the human experience ends.

naste.de.lumina
11th February 2014, 17:08
I've had the feeling of certainty for the majority of responses about the spiritual world and reincarnation . Just to fall in other doubts and questions without answers .
As I deepen my knowledge in literature and the mediums ( Brazil is a country with many studying the spiritual doctrine of Alan Kardec ) , and many questions were being answered , other questions responses were created .

Whenever I encounter some matter touching on the spectrum of ' good x bad ' duality, a button of alert sounds to my intuition .
As if trying to alert me to the fact that there are at least two ' Matrix' to overcome. The earthly material plane and the other spiritual .

Be induced to choose one of the polarities of duality seems to be a trap.

As friend Sunny-side-up, says : upon death most souls get hi -jacked ( The Light ) , trapped and then erased knowledge ( We are made ​​into subservient , dumb -down slaves) and so come back needing to re -find que Which we once Knew , That Which cornichons own and be able to use from an early age !

Thus we are induced to feed the energy that ultimately is the source of good and bad polarities.

This way of seeing invariably leads me to look more closely at the Gnostic text that refer to the Demiurge. A creative entity that is / are sick.

Perhaps the answer to this kind of challenge is to understand the real meaning of unconditional love in which there is no polarity. Ie, are beyond good and evil, so beyond the capabilities of the Demiurge to get mentally imprison us in dualistic reality.

Anyway I am very interested in trying to figure out this issue of the light to be followed after the death of the body. Can be rather part of the trap.

Hugs.

Naste.

Sean Cullen
11th February 2014, 18:40
Hi sirdipswitch,

You certainly have provided some interesting food for thought...



That's the Universe. It just keeps going round and round, and we have no idea how many times we have 'already' went round this circle. "OR", how many more times we will go round it. Source sure ain't gettin tired of it , cuz He just keeps on spitting out new Spirits to populate it, as it grows. And grow it does. Each time we go round it gets a little bigger, with a few more races, to add their two cents worth.

How long does a 'round' take? You can't count the number of zeros in the years that it takes to go round just once. And you can't count the zeros in the number of times we have already done this. And, you can't count the number of zeros in the number of times we will do it all again.

Can you say... Infinity?



The idea that we may have existed for an infinitely long time and all the implications that would suggest is a truly difficult one for me to grasp.

Here is an interesting thought that you might entertain for a moment, as it has helped me to figure out something and reach a conclusion;

"If we have already existed for an infinitely long time, then we could never have got to this time from then."

From the logical impossibility suggested by this thought, I personally am satisfied that there must have been an 'uncaused cause' which started the ball rolling for us at some finite time in the past.

Regards to you, and thanks for the mind bending suggestion;)

Seán

markpierre
11th February 2014, 19:48
You choose. You choose to exercise choice. You do that through contrast. Learning what you don't want,
is how you learn what you do.
No one and nothing can choose anything for you. Nothing and no one can hijack your choices.
You can make the unreal seem real, and forget Reality entirely. That's an extraordinary ability.

You chose to explore the physical realms, choosing every aspect of it, and your 'humanness' is only part of it.
It's an important part of it, because you can use your mind and your hands and your voice to manipulate your choices in form.
You can gift, or you can take.
You can choose to expand and include, or contract and reject. You can FEEL for yourself the effects of your choices.
You FEEL them in your body, you Feel it in your desires. You exercise and FEEL freedom by how you bestow it.
How long does it take you to feel indiscriminate in what you give to your creations? That will seem to be lessons learned or unlearned.

Time is change. Change is expansion. The speed of change is up to you. The only mandate to be here is placed there by you.
Every consequence of every choice is yours. What are you choosing now?
What gift would you give to a Source that 'is' everything, that gave you the opportunity to create anything you choose?
The gift of you willing to be like that Source? The gift of will was given to you in love, return it in kind.

When you make yourself small and at the mercy of things you didn't ask for, that's what you experience.

Selene
11th February 2014, 20:23
True soul growth and development is expressed in the character of each individual. It’s expressed in your innate response to life, not merely in your memories or skill set(s).

In that respect, the specific situations that present themselves in each lifetime can be much broader than simple tit-for-tat replays of previous scenes. Their importance is reflected in how your respond to the underlying issue. Do you fight? Or forgive? Or stay or go? Etc. Who are you now, this time?

None of that requires specific memories. You can drop them safely and still retain the lessons. Everything you need here now is here now.

At least, that’s soul growth and reincarnation as I understand and experience it .

Cheers,

Selene

The Alley Cat
11th February 2014, 20:56
True soul growth and development is expressed in the character of each individual. It’s expressed in your innate response to life, not merely in your memories or skill set(s).

In that respect, the specific situations that present themselves in each lifetime can be much broader than simple tit-for-tat replays of previous scenes. Their importance is reflected in how your respond to the underlying issue. Do you fight? Or forgive? Or stay or go? Etc. Who are you now, this time?

None of that requires specific memories. You can drop them safely and still retain the lessons. Everything you need here now is here now.

At least, that’s soul growth and reincarnation as I understand and experience it .

Cheers,

Selene

Just a big big if not huge thanks for your post Selene :) so appreciated.

Helena

Wind
11th February 2014, 22:15
We are God experiencing itself and the primary lesson is quite simple: "Love one another."

http://www.trinitywebmanager.com/sanskrit/uploads/Gita2-22Vasansi.jpg

Bhagavad Gita

"Just as a person gives up old worn-out garments and puts on new ones, the same way the Self gives up old and useless bodies and accepts new ones.

This (the Self) can never be cut into pieces by the weapons, nor burnt by fire, nor moistened by water, nor dried by the wind.

This (the Self) cannot be broken, it cannot be burned, it cannot be dissolved, it cannot be dried, it is eternal, all pervading, immovable, unchangeable and eternally the same.

This (the Self) is impersonal, inconceivable, unchangeable. Thus knowing This to be such, you don’t deserve to lament.

Even if you take this to have constant birth and death, you still don’t deserve to lament, O mighty armed!

For, certain is death for the born and certain is birth for the dead; therefore, over the inevitable you should not grieve.

All beings are unmanifested in their beginning, O Bharata, manifested in their middle state and unmanifested again in their end. What is there then to grieve about?"

greybeard
11th February 2014, 22:25
Consciousness is evolving to know itself.
In its fullness it is perfect, complete, whole.

Ps
Reincarnation is part of the process.
At any time the karmic cycle of birth and death can be escaped from.
That is what the path of enlightenment is about.
The ignorance is that we think we are a separate person when in reality we are One without a second.
When that is realised --who is there to be experiencing reincarnation?
Chris

Rollo
11th February 2014, 23:13
I'm just reading this

"Life never ceases. Life is an overflowing source, and death is only and obscure effect of illusions.

The great river follows its own course before joining the vast sea.
Likewise, the soul follows equally varied routes and passes through different
stages, receiving here and there tributaries of knowledge, strengthening its
personality and perfecting its qualities before reaching the Ocean of Eternal Wisdom.
..."

André Luiz - Astral City

Are we perfecting our qualities even if we return over and over. Each new time has to be different or maybe better from the previous passes.

As a spirit in the current body I demand my memory back:wizard:

PurpleLama
11th February 2014, 23:23
There's been something niggling me for a while, there's a school of thought that says we are put on earth to learn lessons, more specifically that we are coming back to learn something we didn't grasp last time. I hear examples such as previously you had such and such a problem and in this life you're being positioned to overcome the previous problem and learn the lesson.

My problem understanding this is: at the higher level where our "higher consciousness" is positioning us into a situation to learn a lesson, that lesson is clearly known by the higher self already, and that higher self being us. ie we already know this lesson on some level.

One explanation for this may be that we're experiencing these lessons in fragmented linear time, where as our higher consciousness experiences it all "now".

Before we start getting into arguments over terminology I'm classing the level of knowing that is sending us here as not yet back to source, so for example some may say "over soul" others "higher consciousness" etc.

There is a question of mechanics, between what mode of operation exists here, and that of the "other side".

Here, you can do anything, you can change anything, but as a rule you can't know all there is to know about anything.

There, you can know anything and everything, have access to all the wisdom of the universe, but you are in a state where what is, is, and you cannot do anything with this knowledge, as it relates to the self.

So, you pack up a portion of yourself and send it off to school. This portion goes, and experiences, and learns or not learns, according to the conditions/probabilities that you have set for it, and also according to what it chooses in relation to the knowledge it gains through its own experience.

Once the incarnation is done, it comes back, and by what difference it made with itself it changes you ever so slightly, and what would otherwise be changeless and eternal gets to experience what planets like these know all about....

Growth.

Selene
11th February 2014, 23:29
Perfect, PurpleLama!

I wish I'd said that.....

Many thanks,

Selene

lysander
12th February 2014, 14:03
Thanks for all the comments so far, there have been some very insightful responses!

I'm not sure where I stand with this yet, but having some extra perspectives to absorb gives me a better chance of understanding the possibilities. Thanks guys! :)

peterpam
12th February 2014, 14:43
I have spent a lifetime of "practicing" various dogmas, disciplines, rituals and beliefs presented by others. In fact, I dedicated my life to finding the truth of this matter. I have finally found the truth and it is simple: I REALLY HAVE NO IDEA WHY I AM HERE. This was at first very distressing. I have convinced myself many times that I knew some truth and would find more. Now I am in a state of acceptance..In fact I find humor in the fact that I woke up one day at the age of 13 and knew it all and I have been getting dumber ever since...

Today I find a lot of peace in looking at my life as a artistic creation. I am molding my life and character to a vision I have of my "finest self". I also understand that this vision will most likely be modified as my consciousness evolves....So simple, yet so much more gratifying than all the dogma in the world.

sirdipswitch
15th February 2014, 18:02
Hi sirdipswitch,

You certainly have provided some interesting food for thought...



That's the Universe. It just keeps going round and round, and we have no idea how many times we have 'already' went round this circle. "OR", how many more times we will go round it. Source sure ain't gettin tired of it , cuz He just keeps on spitting out new Spirits to populate it, as it grows. And grow it does. Each time we go round it gets a little bigger, with a few more races, to add their two cents worth.

How long does a 'round' take? You can't count the number of zeros in the years that it takes to go round just once. And you can't count the zeros in the number of times we have already done this. And, you can't count the number of zeros in the number of times we will do it all again.

Can you say... Infinity?



The idea that we may have existed for an infinitely long time and all the implications that would suggest is a truly difficult one for me to grasp.

Here is an interesting thought that you might entertain for a moment, as it has helped me to figure out something and reach a conclusion;

"If we have already existed for an infinitely long time, then we could never have got to this time from then."

From the logical impossibility suggested by this thought, I personally am satisfied that there must have been an 'uncaused cause' which started the ball rolling for us at some finite time in the past.

Regards to you, and thanks for the mind bending suggestion;)

Seán




OK, you enjoy mind bending? Here's a bit more for you. ccc.

Finite cause? Yes there was/is, but so very... long ago, as to be infinate, or closely there abouts. ccc. Science discovers, as it discovers, vastly more life than previously thought, each time they look in new places. Such as far more life in the ocean than on land. Think of the absolutely vast number of life forms living just on the floor of the ocean. Then,think of all those other Planets out there with just as much, or far more than here! Source did it. Yep... Source put it all there. As it put us... here. hmm. Now... when It, created the universe, this one and ALL others also, it created it all... complete. Bang... there it is. So very long ago as to be "almost"... infinate. AND... now here's the one to really wrap yer mind around... It, Source, Our Creator, The One that did this ALL... had a beginning somewhere... but how long did It, just sit and "Think"... to be able to just spit it all out at one time? Bang, there it is... and It, has been controling every tiny little atom of it all, since that beginning. Yep, I think of mind bending and yet can't even come close to wraping my mind around the absolute "Magnitude" of the "Intellect" that it took to produce... all that is. And We... are Its' favorite way to "Experience", Its' own creation. How long would YOU want to continue? Remember, Humor is one of Its' atributes. It, is having an absolute ball with us.

And we'll have fun, fun, fun, till Daddy takes our T-Bird awaaaaaaaaayyyyy. ccc.

JK7DA0FliIs

Couldn't resist throwin in a little of the "good ol days". ccc.
Certainly I remember the good ol days, they were fun times.
Crusin, Fri. and Sat. nights in downtown San Jose, California, in my 40 Ford Coupe, with a 500 horse Chrysler Hemi, under the hood. Yes it was a beast. Awesomely powerfull. 60mph, and then stop, at the next light. (block) chuckle chuckle. Back when "street racin", was fun, fun, fun. Of course I would put my 12 inch, (wide) slicks on the back, to go "crusin". ccc. Sure were the pits if it rained. cc.

Y'all can find a bit more mind bending on my thread:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51152-The-Secret-Of-The-Soul-and-OBE


ENJOY!!!

lunaflare
15th February 2014, 19:50
peterpam, your post with conclusion (in shouting capitals) made me smile.
I really don't know why we are here in this body-form either...

What I experience and observe is that some people-regardless of age-display greater wisdom than others; there is an inner calm and an absence of judgement (less reactive).
Are these people any "happier"? I know not.
Yet, I prefer to be around them.
Avalonians have written about laws of attraction on this thread.
Seems all is energy/frequency/vibration and our thoughts do weave, create and then manifest our experience.
I can write this but not really understand it.
How we manifest into this human form, into a human family, get programed by culture, and then go about our lives "seeking" answers is indeed mysterious...
I do feel we are here to lift (self imposed?) veils which may include our star origins.

Johnny
16th February 2014, 00:46
I have spent a lifetime of "practicing" various dogmas, disciplines, rituals and beliefs presented by others. In fact, I dedicated my life to finding the truth of this matter. I have finally found the truth and it is simple: I REALLY HAVE NO IDEA WHY I AM HERE. This was at first very distressing. I have convinced myself many times that I knew some truth and would find more. Now I am in a state of acceptance..In fact I find humor in the fact that I woke up one day at the age of 13 and knew it all and I have been getting dumber ever since...

Today I find a lot of peace in looking at my life as a artistic creation. I am molding my life and character to a vision I have of my "finest self". I also understand that this vision will most likely be modified as my consciousness evolves....So simple, yet so much more gratifying than all the dogma in the world.

Thanks peterpam really nice post. Learning can only be done in a flow. IMO Just like learning to ride a bicycle.

Cheers Johnny :)

GreenGuy
16th February 2014, 16:54
As Spirit, we would be just as happy, if we were still living in caves, in harmony with Nature.

That just might be one of the most important points made in this discussion.

Ravenlocke
17th February 2014, 00:30
The question that keeps popping up at me about the Reincarnation process is that I haven't figured out, Why if we keep coming back do we come back without our memories of our previous lives? If we come to learn lessons wouldn't it make more sense to come back with our memories? In this lifetime alone it has taken me most of my life to try to figure who I really am and that I have been lied to by my religious background/upbringing about my true spirituality. This alone makes me not want to come back at all after this life you know? And are we lied to/deceived in the afterlife as well then? If we have to try to find our own personal truths in this world/reality, how do we know we are not lied to or deceived in other realities or the afterlife? How do we find the truth in those realms?

Johnny
17th February 2014, 01:13
The question that keeps popping up at me about the Reincarnation process is that I haven't figured out, Why if we keep coming back do we come back without our memories of our previous lives? If we come to learn lessons wouldn't it make more sense to come back with our memories? In this lifetime alone it has taken me most of my life to try to figure who I really am and that I have been lied to by my religious background/upbringing about my true spirituality. This alone makes me not want to come back at all after this life you know? And are we lied to/deceived in the afterlife as well then? If we have to try to find our own personal truths in this world/reality, how do we know we are not lied to or deceived in other realities or the afterlife? How do we find the truth in those realms?


Very brief IMHO. Why we don't remember is because the memory/mind is connected to the physical brain, which of cause is brand new, when we are born. We can connect to our 'spirit' memory/mind, but the 'top' memory/mind is still the last one. If we didn't do that, I'll think we would go in an endless loop, like many of us have a tendency to do as adult.

The people who lied/deceived us under our upbringing and later, I will say that 99.9999 % of them where not aware of it, they really believed they told us the truth. So what caused they did that ? I will say something like, they/we are lost in our own creation, because we are not able to see clearly enough. Metaphysical are we too close or too far to the subjects.

Regards Johnny

Johnny
17th February 2014, 01:19
........ how do we know we are not lied to or deceived in other realities or the afterlife? How do we find the truth in those realms?

IMO: We don't, that is the reason we have to 'find ourselves' :)

Johnny

obaefun
17th February 2014, 04:25
Hi lysander, interesting tread,
Maybe it will help you understand better if you look at it as Evolution of the Spirit, insted of Evolution of the Species.
Darwing came up with this theory of trial and errors, but he fail to put this Evolution theory as an individual evolution, not of the flesh but of the spirit, that is the information of the individual, and the information of the individual, IS the individual, so for the individual to evolve, that is to grow, then it is necesary that lessons learn must be an addition to past lessons. When we fail to try to understand this fundamental principal is when we fail to see ourself as in "The Now", as you call it.
The reason we can use our Wisdom tomorrow is because we use our intelect today from the knowledge we adquire yesterday. This proces is infinite, once we acept this, then we understand that reincarnation is nothing more than a wheel, with 3 spikes, and we are going around and around, what we have to do is find the center, then no more incarnation in this fractal, we move to the next fractal, or Dimensions as some people call it, and the process continues there.
As my teacher explain it to me, when two becomes one, you float, That is when Knowledge and wisdon becomes intelect we float.
Hope I could help.

mahalall
17th February 2014, 07:11
"State Religious Affairs Bureau Order No. 5 (Chinese: 国家宗教事务局令第5号) is an order from the State Administration for Religious Affairs, the People's Republic of China's agency charged with keeping religion under state control. Order No. 5 states that a Reincarnation Application must be filed by all Buddhist temples in that country before they are allowed to recognize individuals as tulkus (reincarnated teachers)"

remember all lessons related to reincarnation must have a valid application and be undertaken in a registered environment ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Religious_Affairs_Bureau_Order_No._5

Arak
17th February 2014, 11:03
As long as I can remember I'v had this feeling that everything we do or are is quite vain. We live and then we die. What happens before or after is mystery to many. I believe that our souls try to reach God by evolving by experiences. But why then everything feels vain? Is it that I am tired for eternal cycle of reincarnations? Or is it just that I have had too much time to think. Or is it that as I havent been able to get kids I have missed my biological purpose of life and that actually is all that there is. I don't know. Today I feel more lost than most of the days: today I feel that there is no purpose. We just are cogs in this huge clockwork called Universe.

Freed Fox
17th February 2014, 20:03
As long as I can remember I'v had this feeling that everything we do or are is quite vain. We live and then we die. What happens before or after is mystery to many. I believe that our souls try to reach God by evolving by experiences. But why then everything feels vain? Is it that I am tired for eternal cycle of reincarnations? Or is it just that I have had too much time to think. Or is it that as I havent been able to get kids I have missed my biological purpose of life and that actually is all that there is. I don't know. Today I feel more lost than most of the days: today I feel that there is no purpose. We just are cogs in this huge clockwork called Universe.

Arak, I'm sorry you feel that way. I cannot offer anything that will undeniably refute your doubts, but I can try and suggest a few things which seem to fly in the face of the idea that existence is purposeless.

You mentioned the biological angle, and I'm sure many materialistic scientists would argue that it really is only about propagation of the species. However, when delving into things such as, for instance, microbiology, it strikes me that such complexity and elegance with many of the systems at work within living organisms is far greater than what could have possibly arisen by chance. I wouldn't necessarily argue against the idea of evolution as a whole, but it tends to boil down too simplistically IMO, and still cannot entirely account for consciousness.

Also, one thing which occurred to me not too long ago; evolution basically boils down to the advancement of life over many generations via breeding in advantageous traits and breeding out disadvantageous ones, along with the occasional beneficial mutation. If that were the only mechanism at work, however, there would be no need for the vast diversity of life we find on this planet alone. That logic would seem to lead to maybe a handful of species fulfilling each ecological niche, but there are and have been in the past far more than that. Millions of species, but no evolutionary necessity for such diversity, really.

Furthermore, it would seem that human civilization should have stagnated once we reached the top of the food chain (thousands of years ago) rather than continuing to develop technology and civilization to the point we've reached today. Once we became glorified albeit uncultured apes using simple tools, there wasn't really any remaining impetus for further advancement, so far as I can tell.

Stepping away from the material science arguments, we have things such as OBEs and NDEs, as well as psychedelic experiences. Now, these (especially the latter) are often dismissed as merely chemical interactions in the brain, but for those who have experienced them firsthand, it is almost inconceivable that they are merely that. The shear profundity of some of these experiences demands that there is more to them in essence, and we should be more inclined to side with those who have actually had these experiences as opposed to the so-called 'experts' who discount them on the basis that they don't comfortably fit into their scientific dogma.

I don't know if any of this helps, but I hope that it does.

Arak
18th February 2014, 06:16
Thank you for your words Freed fox. I might have been slightly vague about my personal beliefs - which do incluede reincarnation, spiritual realm, God/Source as force in everything, OBE's and so on. It's just that from my perspective so what? Yeah there is supernatural and magical dimensions but we are stuck in this harsh 3D world for eternal cycle of reincarnations. And that all feels vain. I bet I have seen this all thousands of times before and now as I start to remember it, I start to ask questions like above: why? Whats the point?

Fairy Friend
18th February 2014, 11:01
I would recommend a movie “Cloud Atlas” it is about reincarnation but not the usual eye for an eye, you kill me I kill you, as if that balances anything out. Nor is it in order 1800s, 1900s, etc. but they jump all over the place but its worth the trouble.
Not perfect but I loved it.

Arak
18th February 2014, 13:05
I would recommend a movie “Cloud Atlas” it is about reincarnation but not the usual eye for an eye, you kill me I kill you, as if that balances anything out. Nor is it in order 1800s, 1900s, etc. but they jump all over the place but its worth the trouble.
Not perfect but I loved it.
Have seen it twice. Loved it. Very good indeed.