Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told

[Andrew]

Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told (http://thegreateststorynevertold.tv/)

Since the mid-20th century, the world has only ever heard one side of an incredible story. The story of a boy from an ordinary family whose ambition it was to become an artist, but who instead became a drifter.
His destiny however was not to drift into the awaiting oblivion, but to rise to the greatest heights of power, eventually to become one of the most influential men who ever lived.

Now for the first time, here is a documented account of a story many believe to be…

The Greatest Story NEVER Told!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Uvyw8_8hws
Mod edit from Bill: not surprisingly, this video has been taken down by YouTube. However, it's here in the Avalon Library.


Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told (5 hrs 50 mins, 1.2 Gb)
http://avalonlibrary.net/Adolf_Hitler_The_Greatest_Story_Never_Told.mp4

~~~


Learn the untold story about the most reviled man in history. Adolf Hitler, The Greatest Story Never Told is a 6-hour Documentary by TruthWillOut Films.
This ground-breaking documentary chronicles the rise of Germany from defeat in World War I, to communist attempts to take over Germany; hyperinflation during the Weimar Republic, widespread unemployment and misery, and Adolf Hitler’s rise to power.

It also reveals a personal side of Adolf Hitler: who he was, his family background, his artwork and struggles in Vienna and what motivated him to come to power.

There’s so much hidden history to recount; FDR Pearl Harbor conspiracy, Soviet brutality, betrayal and treachery on all sides. Do we really know the true cost of war? Do we really possess all the facts?

Watch this series and uncover the real root causes of World War II. Do your own research and decide what you choose to believe.

http://trutube.tv/video/21047/Hitler-The-Awakening-has-Begun

The Greatest Story Never Told
Synopsis by Marcus Wolfe, January 7, 2014

WWII affected hundreds of millions of people and it affected millions of Europeans and Asians born after the war too. If not for the war, myself and millions of other people would be citizens of a different country today. Millions of people were driven off their historic homelands, lands they had lived on for centuries and borders were shifted to the victors advantage. The world was changed forever.

Europe had led the world for centuries and it laid in ruin. Entire countries were completely destroyed with their cities left unrecognizable. The British Empire was left bankrupt and broke up, the French Empire lost its colonies after the war and Germany lost a huge amount of land again, added to the losses of WWI Germany was now two thirds its former size. At least fourteen million Germans were driven off their historic lands in the biggest ethnic cleansing operation and mass movement of people in history.

Europe lost its leadership position in science, technology and culture. Until 1945 and a few years after, Germany had dominated the Nobel Prizes with far more than any other country, and Great Britain and France were at the top in science too. All of Europe was educated and competitive. With the almost complete destruction of Europe, the United States and the Soviet Union took over leadership of the world and leadership in science and technology. Those two countries competed to explore space, with the USA landing on the Moon in 1969 and the USA took over leadership in the sciences too.

In 1948 Israel was created. The Zionists and Jews in general played a central role in WWII. Many were victims and many Europeans were their victims. Jews also played an important role in starting, or at least widening, and then winning the war. Jews were no less powerful after the war than before it and Israel was created in 1948. Palestinians were pushed off their land and the fighting goes on until today. For most of the last seventy years since the end of the war we were told that Jews were the main victims of WWII with a countless number of books, movies and documentaries made about the “holocaust.”

Hardly any other country or ethnic group’s suffering was ever mentioned. Today Israel is a superpower with one of the largest nuclear arsenals in the world and with Zionism’s enormous influence over virtually every western country, Israel threatens its neighbors regularly and western countries (in particular the USA) make war on their behalf.

In order to better understand what is going on in the world today we have to understand WWII, the war that put the people that rule the world today into power. Most of the world does not understand how we got where we are today because the history of WWII has been deliberately distorted.

In order to ensure these false notions of what the war was about and who the bad guys were and who the good guys were (the victors of course), laws have been put into place that guarantee that anyone that questions or produces evidence against the “holocaust” or other mainstream claims is in violation of the law and is subject to jail.

More than a few important historians and scientists have been thrown into jail in Europe and very few people in academia or outside of academia complain about this and at the same time these self satisfied people talk about the importance of “freedom of speech” and its important role in a democracy.

While Churchill and FDR are presented as Saints and even Stalin was proclaimed to be a great man, Germany’s leader and the Germans themselves have been presented as the devil incarnate. We have been told over and over for the last seventy years many different things about Hitler, all bad and many ridiculous.

Many books and claims have been made about the man and many contradict each other, but as long as they portray Hitler as evil they get a good reception by the media. We’re told he was a lowly corporal, a house painter, a homosexual and at the same time a murderer of homosexuals. Then contradicting the house painter claim, they say he was a failed art student, he was so evil that he was incapable of painting a human figure with the proper dimensions.

In truth Hitler was an aspiring art student that was competent, but not good enough to get into the art school in Vienna. He was not a coward as we are often told, but a war hero winning the Iron Cross first and second class, he was gassed at the end of the war and suffered the terrible pain that went with that. He was a heterosexual that had sexual relations and married the love of his life before they both committed suicide to avoid being tortured and murdered by the victorious allies.

He presided over the most remarkable economic recovery of the 1930’s and he was a remarkable military leader. For putting millions of Germans back to work, ending the misery imposed on Germany by its enemies and restoring Germany’s pride his people supported him to the bitter end. No matter the military setbacks or the mass murder of Germany’s civilians by enemy bombers he had the full support of all of Germany and Germany fought virtually the whole world until the bitter end.

This documentary attempts to educate the viewer about the facts regarding Hitler, the war, the holocaust and many other things.

The film comes in 26 segments, each about fifteen minutes in length.

Please feel free to discuss this documentary in it's entirety all I ask is that not to go on a Reptilian Alien agenda wild goose chase.

[GreenGuy]

Whatever the ultimate truth may be, there must always be room for balance in the search for it.

[Bill Ryan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9bF0Pc-GRI
Mod edit from Bill: not surprisingly, this video has been taken down by YouTube. However, it's here in the Avalon Library.


Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told (5 hrs 50 mins, 1.2 Gb)
http://avalonlibrary.net/Adolf_Hitler_The_Greatest_Story_Never_Told.mp4

~~~

What I presume is the whole thing is also available here as a torrent (2.5 Gb):


http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/9730831

[gripreaper]

Well, before investing six hours in a documentary which purports to tell the true untold story, I "think" I already know what happened.

Germany was devastated by WW1 and was ordered to make war reparations to the rest of the world, after losing their fertile farmlands to the east and west and being virtually imprisoned in the mountainous central part of Germany. Due to the limited arable land and other limitations, Germany's Weimar Republic went into hyperinflation, and the hopelessness set into the once glorious Germany, the country which had most of the best and brightest scientists and scholars of it's day.

Of course, the banksters desire to take advantage of the situation groomed Hitler, who is purported to be descendant of the royal elite bloodlines, and yes, did set up and complete the full globalization agenda which had been aggressively implemented, in all countries, at the turn of the century. He was definitely the catalyst puppet master for the grand globalist plan.

Looking at 1900 forward, we see the banksters under JPM and the City of London and the Federal Reserve taking over finances, the redrawing of the world map through colonial imperialism, the Spanish flu plague, World War One, the emergence of Theosophy as well as the fundamentalist revivals of the Assembly of God church, the consolidation of resources into the United States under project paperclip, and later the New Deal making all of us indentured slaves, along with the suppression of any technology which did not meet the requirements of the slave grid, while organizing a hidden financial system under Bilderberg and leaving the slaves with nothing but a global fiat debt system under the petrodollar, while the real technology and resources went underground into hidden black operation projects, making the super elite psychopaths filthy rich and in control of all means of production and all emerging technology, all militaries and all governments.

This plan was already in the works before WW1 as the industrialization of Europe (due to oil) was expanding exponentially and the same tactics were used in Europe as were used a few centuries earlier in Rome. You see, Rome never failed, it was just re-engineered and power diversified into Europe. The same thing happened in WW1, the City of London never failed as Europe's power base was broken up and diversified into the United States. The same thing is happening right now as the Federal Reserve never fails as the power base in the US is being broken up and diversified. ALL power is held and vested in the same few and is not allowed to be vested in any one country or continent. It is held by the few unequivocally as divisiveness, strife, debt and slavery are fostered on the populace.

So, what happened in Germany, at least in my mind, was not unique and is the same game plan as has always been implemented by the elite bloodlines for thousands of years, since their arrival here their interloping ways are scattered throughout the true history of this planet. I agree they write the history and obfuscate it's truth, but we are waking up to them and they are not so well hidden anymore.

If you have watched the entire six hours, and there are facts which are new and would benefit expansion of the long term historical worldview as it truly is, I would be interested in a brief synopsis of your findings.

Thanks in advance.

[GuyFox]

Interesting Videos, pulling together many relevant historical facts in Hitler's life, and the period of German History that he dominated.

A Big Question now is: Has the JEWISH "PASS" Expired?

69 Years have elapsed since WW2 ended. For virtually ALL of that time, certain historical events, including Jewish behaviours could not be discussed. If Jewish people, and especially Israel behaved badly, for example by mistreating Palestinians it could not be discussed. Such discussion was forbidden. And along with this, it was forbidded to say anything positive about Adolf Hitler, or examine in any detail his life.

Thanks for posted this. We have much to learn of our history of the last 100 years

[Andrew]

Well, before investing six hours in a documentary which purports to tell the true untold story, I "think" I already know what happened.

Germany was devastated by WW1 and was ordered to make war reparations to the rest of the world, after losing their fertile farmlands to the east and west and being virtually imprisoned in the mountainous central part of Germany. Due to the limited arable land and other limitations, Germany's Weimar Republic went into hyperinflation, and the hopelessness set into the once glorious Germany, the country which had most of the best and brightest scientists and scholars of it's day.

Of course, the banksters desire to take advantage of the situation groomed Hitler, who is purported to be descendant of the royal elite bloodlines, and yes, did set up and complete the full globalization agenda which had been aggressively implemented, in all countries, at the turn of the century. He was definitely the catalyst puppet master for the grand globalist plan.

Looking at 1900 forward, we see the banksters under JPM and the City of London and the Federal Reserve taking over finances, the redrawing of the world map through colonial imperialism, the Spanish flu plague, World War One, the emergence of Theosophy as well as the fundamentalist revivals of the Assembly of God church, the consolidation of resources into the United States under project paperclip, and later the New Deal making all of us indentured slaves, along with the suppression of any technology which did not meet the requirements of the slave grid, while organizing a hidden financial system under Bilderberg and leaving the slaves with nothing but a global fiat debt system under the petrodollar, while the real technology and resources went underground into hidden black operation projects, making the super elite psychopaths filthy rich and in control of all means of production and all emerging technology, all militaries and all governments.

This plan was already in the works before WW1 as the industrialization of Europe (due to oil) was expanding exponentially and the same tactics were used in Europe as were used a few centuries earlier in Rome. You see, Rome never failed, it was just re-engineered and power diversified into Europe. The same thing happened in WW1, the City of London never failed as Europe's power base was broken up and diversified into the United States. The same thing is happening right now as the Federal Reserve never fails as the power base in the US is being broken up and diversified. ALL power is held and vested in the same few and is not allowed to be vested in any one country or continent. It is held by the few unequivocally as divisiveness, strife, debt and slavery are fostered on the populace.

So, what happened in Germany, at least in my mind, was not unique and is the same game plan as has always been implemented by the elite bloodlines for thousands of years, since their arrival here their interloping ways are scattered throughout the true history of this planet. I agree they write the history and obfuscate it's truth, but we are waking up to them and they are not so well hidden anymore.

If you have watched the entire six hours, and there are facts which are new and would benefit expansion of the long term historical worldview as it truly is, I would be interested in a brief synopsis of your findings.

Thanks in advance.

The BOLD statement is an assumption and so the rest of your paragraph is an assumption that Hitler was a pawn, at the moment I don't believe he was, it would be good if we really could get a handle on whether that is fact or not, otherwise it must be disregarded for now, the rest of what you say seems legit, but as for Hitler being a pawn I really don't think so.

I think he really worried them.

[Andrew]

Bare in mind also... "Adolf Hitler has been called everything from a Jew, a Rothschild, a homosexual, a mad carpet eater, a sex pervert and a mass murderer. So do not be surprised at "drug addict" or making "bad decisions". It took the Allies 6 years to take him down. It was no different to a courageous lion eventually outnumbered by hyenas. These lies are only to be expected from his enemies. They had good reason to hate him"

The only reason people keep saying stuff like this is to discredit the man so nobody takes any notice... THEY are called Gatekeepers who distract you with anything but the truth, like stories of reptilians and similier things which nobody can get any actual foothold on. Think about it, what you going to do about a supposedly highly advanced space fairing civilisation like Reptilians? NO-THING.

[Andrew]

Source (http://carolynyeager.net/fake-legends-adolf-hitler%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Cjewish-grandfather%E2%80%9D)
The Fake Legends of Adolf Hitler’s “Jewish Grandfather”
Published by admin on Sun, 2011-10-23 00:47
How and why it got started, and why it’s not true
By Carolyn Yeager, March 2011
copyright 2011 Carolyn Yeager
The rumor that Adolf Hitler was the grandson of a Rothschild seems to have been hatched in the mind of a crypto-Jewish propagandist working in the United States’ first unified intelligence agency, the Office of Strategic Services (OSS). Not long after, a former high Nazi official, waiting for his execution, “confessed” to discovering a “Jewish grandfather” in Hitler’s background. These fabrications have been thoroughly debunked, and the true story of Hitler’s family background is told below.
Background information about Walter Langer and the OSS
The OSS was formed at the request of President Franklin D. Roosevelt, from advice given to him by Canadian/British spymaster William Stephenson, aka “Intrepid,” who had been conducting British intelligence in the western hemisphere since 1939. Roosevelt asked William J. Donovan to draft a plan for an intelligence service. Donovan had functioned as an informal emissary to Britain for Roosevelt during 1940-41, assigned to gauge Britain's ability to succeed against Germany. In this role, he met with directors of Britain's intelligence services, and even with Winston Churchill. Donovan was appointed as the "Coordinator of Information" in July 1941. In June 1942, the OSS was established by Presidential military order. Its job was to collect and analyze strategic information required by and useful to the Joint Chiefs, and to conduct special operations not assigned to other agencies.* Since the FBI, the Army and Navy jealously guarded their areas of responsibility, the reach of the OSS was limited to what it could find in the way of new opportunities for espionage that weren’t already being served by the former-named departments. *Italics used throughout are my added emphasis - cy
William L. Langer was recruited during the war to work for the new OSS. Taking leave from his position as head of the History Dept. at Harvard Univ., he became head of the Research and Analysis Section of the OSS. He must have had something to do with bringing his brother Walter into his section, since Walter’s main accomplishment was a psychological analysis of Adolf Hitler.
Walter Langer was a psychoanalyst with a PhD but not an M.D.; he was the first person admitted to the American Psychiatric Association without a medical degree. Imagine that! The brothers were the sons of German immigrants to the U.S. No religion is ever given for either, increasing the likelihood the family was Jewish but did not want to advertise that fact. Langer is a common Ashkanazi Jewish and German name. For instance, there is a Rabbi Samuel Langer, well known on the U.S. east coast who died in 1969, and David Langer, a Jewish soldier in the Polish Army whose picture was taken in 1929.
At the end of the war, William was appointed special assistant for intelligence analysis to the U.S. Secretary of State, James F. Byrnes. In 1950, William Langer organized the office of National Estimates in the newly established Central Intelligence Agency [CIA], the successor of the OSS. He returned to Harvard in the 1950’s, but from 1961 to 1977 he served on the President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board [from the Kennedy through Ford administrations]. In his book Diplomacy of Imperialism [1956], he argued against a “genocide” of the Armenians on the grounds their revolutionary leaders provoked the Turks into it.1
http://carolynyeager.net/images/Hitler%20not%20a%20Jew_html_6554bbd6.jpg

http://carolynyeager.net/images/Hitler%20not%20a%20Jew_html_5bdbf102.jpg















Left: William L. Langer Right: Walter C. Langer in retirement. Look at the schnoz on both these brothers.

Langer’s “Psychological Profile of Adolf Hitler”

Walter was given the task by Donovan in 1943 of preparing a brief psychological and psychoanalytical profile of Hitler. But Langer wanted to do something more monumental. Without the opportunity to meet or speak with Hitler himself, Langer turned to disgruntled ex-National Socialists and others who had fallen out with Hitler, and to his tribal animosity for the Third Reich and knowledge of psycho-babble. For example, he wrote in his Preface:

The material available for such an analysis is extremely scant and spotty. Fortunately, we have at our disposal a number of informants who knew Hitler well and who have been willing to cooperate to the best of their abilities.

Reading this profile, it becomes obvious it can only have been written by a Jew. The peculiar hatred, bias and ridicule are of the type that only Jews express against their enemies. Donovan must have been disappointed and considered the report useless since it was full of inaccuracies and full-blown lies … a work of fantasy and Freudian psycho-speak, liberally layered with overt sexual imagery and speculations. With no basis whatsoever, Langer writes:

… a number of informants have commented on [Hitler’s] delight in witnessing strip-tease and nude dancing numbers on the stage. On such occasions he can never see enough to satisfy him even though he uses opera glasses in order to observe more closely. Strip-tease artists are frequently invited to the Brown House, in Munich, to perform in private and there is evidence that he often invites girls to Berchtesgaden for the purpose of exhibiting their bodies. On his walls are numerous pictures of obscene nudes which conceal nothing and he takes particular delight in looking through a collection of pornographic pictures which Hoffmann has made for him. […] In addition to the eyes, the anal region has also become highly sexualised and both faeces and buttocks become sexual objects. Due to early toilet training, certain inhibitions have been set up which prevent their direct expression. […] We may, therefore, regard Hitler's perversion as a compromise between psychotic tendencies to eat faeces and drink urine on the one hand, and to live a normal socially adjusted life on the other. The compromise is not, however, satisfactory to either side of his nature and the struggle between these two diverse tendencies continues to rage unconsciously.

No kidding! And even worse—all from rumor, hearsay and Langer’s own sick Jewish mind. It descends into pornography for many pages, almost half the report. What of any value can have been gained thereby for the OSS?

Showing how Langer went way beyond the task that was assigned to him, the following passage is reminiscent of some other writings from that time [such as Germany Must Perish! by American Jew Theodore Kaufman] that sought to condemn the German nation as a whole for massive evil, and along with it, the entire “civilized world.”

It was not only Hitler, the madman, who created German madness, but German madness which created Hitler. Having created him as its spokesman and leader, it has been carried along by his momentum, perhaps far beyond the point where it was originally prepared to go. Nevertheless, it continues to follow his lead in spite of the fact that it must be obvious to all intelligent people now that his path leads to inevitable destruction. From a scientific point of view, therefore, we are forced to consider Hitler, the Fuehrer, not as a personal devil, wicked as his actions and philosophy may be, but as the expression of a state of mind existing in millions of people, not only in Germany but, to a smaller degree, in all civilized countries. To remove Hitler may be a necessary first step, but it would not be the cure. It would be analogous to curing an ulcer without treating the underlying disease. If similar eruptions are to be prevented in the future, we cannot content ourselves with simply removing the overt manifestations of the disease. On the contrary, we must ferret out and seek to correct the underlying factors which produced the unwelcome phenomenon. We must discover the psychological streams which nourish this destructive state of mind in order that we may divert them into channels which will permit a further evolution of our form of civilization.

“Our form of civilization” meaning Jewish-American form of civilization? This is exactly what they know we need to do to Jews in order to save ourselves … to “ferret out the underlying factors” that are bringing about our destruction. In this OSS profile, there was no mention of a Jewish grandfather for Hitler. But the idea must have been forming to Langer, because toward the end of the “psychological analysis” section of his report, he suddenly invents “Jewish Godparents” for Hitler. His tendency to speculate on pet theories is working overtime when he writes:

We know that he had very little money when he left Linz, certainly not enough to live on for almost an entire year while he spent his time in painting. Since the date of his mother's death has been so universally distorted (? don’t know what he means by this; the date was always Dec. 1907-cy), it would seem that efforts were being made to cover something which happened during this intervening year. My guess would be that he lived with his Jewish godparents 2 who supported him while he was preparing work for the Academy. When he failed to be admitted at the end of a year, they put him out and made him go to work. There is one bit of evidence for this hypothesis. Hanisch 3, in his book, mentions in passing that when they were particularly destitute he went with Hitler to visit a well-to-do Jew whom Hitler said was his father. The wealthy Jew would have nothing to do with him and sent him on his way again. There is scarcely a possibility that Hitler's father was a Jew, but Hanisch might easily have understood him to say father when he said godfather. This would certainly make much more sense and would indicate that Hitler had contact with his godparents before the visit and that they were fed up with him and would help him no further.

The Rothschild story appears …

In 1972, Langer published a lengthier, revised version of his profile in book form, titled The Mind of Adolf Hitler: The Secret Wartime Report. It contained a forward by brother William, and an afterword by the “psychoanalytic historian” Robert G.L. Waite. In the book, Langer adds some new allusions to Jewish superiority in speaking of Adolf’s father:

Alois’ intelligence and behavior were beyond what can be expected from an Austrian family of peasants and more suitable to a linage of highly educated Jews.

This is prologue to his theory of a Rothschild paternity, admitting even as he puts it forth that it lacks credibility:

There are some people who seriously doubt that Johann Georg Hiedler was the father of Alois. Thyssen and Koehler, for example, claim that [Austrian] Chancellor Dollfuss had ordered the Austrian police to conduct a thorough investigation into the Hitler family. As a result of this investigation a secret document was prepared that proved that Maria Anna Schicklgruber was living in Vienna at the time she conceived. At that time she was employed as a servant in the home of Baron Rothschild. As soon as the family discovered her pregnancy she was sent back to her home in Spital where Alois was born. If it is true that one of the Rothschilds is the real father of Alois Hitler, it would make Adolf a quarter Jew. According to these sources, Adolf Hitler knew of the existence of this document and the incriminating evidence it contained. In order to obtain it he precipitated events in Austria and initiated the assassination of Dollfuss. According to this story, he failed to obtain the document at that time since Dollfuss had secreted it and had told Schuschnigg of its whereabouts so that in the event of his death the independence of Austria would remain assured. Several stories of this general character are in circulation.4

First, the “secret document” has never been seen, and no doubt never existed. The best one can find on anti-Hitler conspiracy sites is that it is “now in the hands of the British Secret Service.” And, of course, they’re not releasing it.

Second, the political putsch attempt by Austrian National Socialists, not under Hitler’s control in any way, that occurred in Vienna in 1934 was not instigated by Hitler; in fact, he was displeased by the attempt and the bad impression it created.

Third, Dollfuss may have searched into Hitler’s family line, but the Baron Rothschild part is totally unbelievable. There are no records showing Maria Anna Schickelgruber registered as a domestic servant in Vienna, ever, something that was required at the time. Langer admits this is just one of several “stories,” i.e. rumors, in circulation. He concludes that “it is sounder not to base our reconstruction on such slim evidence but to seek firmer foundations.” Yet he repeats these baseless rumors for the very purpose of keeping such rumors alive.

Robert G.L. Waite, who wrote the afterword for Langer’s book, was a Canadian self-styled “psychohistorian,” with a specialty in Adolf Hitler, who authored his own psycho-bio, Adolf Hitler: The Psychopathic God, published in 1977. Waite, who gained his psychiatric ‘insight’ from the extended treatment he received for depression he suffered since his university days, and was known for stubbornness and acting out emotionally in public, found Langer’s theories provocative, even if wrong. He wrote: "But even when Langer is mistaken and his guesses prove incorrect, he is often on the right track."

Consider his hint that Hitler's grandfather might have been a Jew. There is no reason to believe the unlikely story told by Langer's informant that Hitler's grandmother Maria Anna Schicklgruber, a peasant woman in her forties from the Waldvietral of rural Austria, had had an intimate liason with a Baron Rothschild in Vienna.



Above: Family resemblance? Not a bit, yet some imagine it. This photo comparison is found on Internet sites as evidence of Hitler’s Rothschild lineage!

…and the Frankenberger story

In place of Langer’s failed rumors, Waite posits another false story of a different “Jewish grandfather” that had also been “circulating” for years, to wit that Hitler's paternal grandmother had been working as a cook in the household of a Jewish man named Leopold Frankenberger before she gave birth to Hitler's father out of wedlock.
But Hitler had worried that he might be blackmailed over a Jewish grandfather and ordered his private lawyer, Hans Frank, to investigate his paternal lineage. Frank told the Fuehrer that his grandmother had become pregnant while working as a domestic servant in a Jewish household in Graz.
The facts of this matter are in dispute - and a very lengthy dispute it has been. The point of overriding psychological and historical importance is not whether it is true that Hitler had a Jewish grandfather, but whether he believed that it might be true.
Waite then lies when he writes: "He did so believe and the fact shaped both his personality and his public policy."

No, Hitler did not believe it, and in fact Hans Frank’s entire story is false, an invention made up in the mind of a condemned man under pressure to “clear his conscience.” There was no blackmail letter from Hitler’s nephew Patrick and there was no Frankenberger family living in Graz.
The American Jewish psychologist G. M. Gilbert was sent to Europe as a military intelligence officer and was appointed prison psychologist for the German prisoners. He later wrote in his book Nuremberg Diary on p.19: “He [Hans Frank] and Albert Speer were the only defendants to show any true remorse for their war crimes …” He should also have said they were the only two who spoke ill of Adolf Hitler in retrospect, the former in hopes to clear himself before God, the latter in hopes to clear his reputation before his new earthly rulers.

Above: Hans Frank in confinement, 1945

HITLER’S TRUE GENEALOGY
These are the principal blood relatives of Adolf Hitler:
Maria Schicklgruber, paternal grandmother

Johann Georg Hiedler, presumed, official paternal grandfather

Johann Nepomuk Hüttler, real paternal grandfather and maternal great-grandfather

Johann Baptist Põlzl, maternal grandfather

Klara Hitler, mother

Alois Hitler, father

Paula Hitler, sister

Alois Hitler, Jr., half-brother (by his father’s 2nd wife)

Angela Hitler Raubal, half-sister (by father’s 2nd wife)

Geli Raubal, niece (through his half-sister Angela)

Leo Raubal Jr, nephew (through his half-sister Angela)

William Patrick Hitler, nephew (through his half-brother Alois, Jr)

Below is an accurate genealogic chart from Familypedia.com. The only addition that needs to be made is to link Maria Anna Schicklgruber and Johann Nepomuk Hüttler as having an extra-marital liason which resulted in the child Alois Schicklgruber in 1837 (see Werner Maser, below). But in all other aspects, it conforms to the research done and accepted by all historians and genealogists. There are no Jews or Jewish connections at all.




Werner Maser, a German historian and author of several serious books on Hitler, was described in his obituary in the London Times as “one of the first German historians to treat the Nazi period as a field of academic research.”5

This is borne out in his exceedingly thorough job of tracing Adolf Hitler’s family background and lineage in his book, Hitler: Legend, Myth and Reality, published in German in 1971, in English in 1973. He concludes that Hitler’s paternal grandfather was Johann Nepomuk Hüttler, a German farmer living in Spital, in the Waldviertel region in the Austro-Hungarian Empire.
This book and the information it contains has been available for 40 years, yet conspiracy theorists who want to believe Hitler was a Rothschild or simply a part-Jew ignore it. Maser’s investigation included personal trips to look through church and baptismal records, interviewing relatives, heirs, school-fellows and childhood friends. In the attic of one of Hitler’s cousins, he discovered material which biographers had been seeking for half a century, including large numbers of letter and notes in Hitler’s own hand.
Werner Maser
FINDINGS OF WERNER MASER
1. It is undisputed that Adolf Hitler was born to Alois Hitler and Klara Pölzl. Alois, however, was born Schicklgruber because his mother, Maria Anna Schicklgruber was unmarried. [Not an unusual occurrence in Austrian villages at that time.]
2. Maria Anna Schicklgruber was not a poor housemaid who worked for wealthy Jewish families. The daughter of Johann Schicklgruber, a prosperous farmer in possession of a well-appointed farm in the village of Strones, and Theresia Pfseisinger, she was born in 1795 and is described by Maser as a thrifty, reserved and exceptionally shrewd peasant woman. She gives every appearance of having been strong-minded, a trait that was passed down to her son Alois and her grandson, Adolf.
3. Maria Anna Schicklgruber’s brother, Jakob, purchased the family farm from his father for 3000 gulden when the father was only 53 years old. Maria’s mother, Theresia, had just inherited 210 gulden from her father’s total estate of 1054 gulden, so the parents felt prosperous enough to retire. To put the value of 3000 gulden in perspective: a cow at that time could be purchased for 10 to 12 gulden; a brood sow cost 4 gulden; a bed w/bedding was 2 gulden; an inn with stabling could be had for 450 to 500 gulden. As you can see, 3000 gulden was a substantial amount.
4. Maria Anna, at the age of 26, inherited 74.25 gulden at the death of her mother in 1821. She kept this sum in the Orphans’ Fund until 1838, earning 5% interest. By then, it had increased to 165 gulden, over double the original amount. Her son was not born until June 1837 when she was 42 yrs. old.
5. She refused to reveal the name of her child’s father, even though the priest wanted her to do so. Thus, the child could only be given her name. This strong-willed woman did marry, in 1842—five years after the birth of her son—a man named Johann Georg Hiedler of the village of Spital. If he were the father of Alois, Maria Anna would certainly have named him such when they married and legitimized her son, but she did not. That entry was made in the baptismal register at Döllersheim where they married, but not until ten years after her death! The one responsible for it was Hiedler’s younger brother, Johann Nepomuk Hüttler, in whose household young Alois went to live at the age of 5 years, after his mother’s marriage to Hiedler.6
6. So … we have Maria Anna Schicklgruber Heidler’s illegitimate son Alois going to live in the household of his new stepfather’s brother—his ‘uncle.’ Maser explains it this way: Hiedler, at this time 50 years old and never before married, may have resented and/or been irritated by the presence of a young child who was not his. But more likely, Johann Nepomuk, a much younger 35 years old, who was married at the time Alois was conceived, could now welcome his son, as ‘nephew,’ into his family without his wife becoming suspicious.
7. All reports are, according to Maser, that Alois was happy in his ‘uncle’s’ home where he had ‘cousins’ and a more lively family life than he experienced living with his 47-year-old mother and her new husband.
8. Maria Anna Hiedler died in 1847 at the age of only 52. Alois did not, on his own initiative, seek legal legitimacy. His birth status did not hamper his career, in which he rose to what was considered the very respectable position of a Customs official; nor did it appear to trouble him personally. He was known as a tolerant, modern thinker, not particularly religious. His second wife Franziska Matzelsberger had a son born out of wedlock when he married her and he accepted this son in his household. It wasn’t until sometime between 1874 and 1876 that he changed his name to Hitler. Hitler is almost identical in sound to Hüttler.
9. It was in 1876 that Franz Schicklgruber, administrator of his sister Maria Anna’s estate, made over to his nephew Alois 230 gulden. It was now that Alois signed his name “Hitler,” spelling it just slightly differently than Hüttler. Maser comments that the Schicklgruber family was no doubt proud of how well Alois had done for himself and saw to it that he got the bulk of the inheritance of his mother.
10. Rothschild and Frankenberger Jew paternity is ruled out on the grounds of there being no evidence Maria Anna Schicklgruber ever worked for a Jewish family in Graz or Vienna.
11. The Jew Frankenberger story: Hans Frank, who became Govenor General of Poland from 1939 to 1945, is responsible for the false story, with the help of an American army chaplain Sixtus O’Conner, written before Frank was put to death by the Nuremberg IMT [International Military Tribunal]. He concocted a story that Maria Anna Schicklgruber worked as a cook in the household of a Jewish family in Graz, Austria at the time she gave birth to her son. In his ‘report,’ this family had a 19 yr-old son. [Remember, MAS was 42 years old, a fact of which Hans Frank was probably ignorant.] Further, he said the family, named Frankenberger, paid a maintenance allowance to Maria Anna for 14 years [which makes Jews look responsible and honorable]. But the story is false from start to finish. Some of the main reasons are:
A) From the end of the 15th Century until a decade after Maria Anna died, no Jews lived in Graz. They had been expelled by Emperor Maximilian I in 1496 from the province of Styria, which included Graz. In 1781, under Joseph II, they were allowed to re-enter, but only for a few weeks at a time, during Lent and at the Feast of St. Giles to the annual Fairs, after paying a fixed sum. Two years later, these rights were again curtailed, and it remained enforced until 1860 that no Jews whatsoever could even enter the province.
B) No resident by the name of Frankenberger is listed as having lived in Graz at that time.
C) Records from 1821 to 1838 pertaining to Maria Anna’s money in the Orphans’ Fund showed no change of address in 1836 or ’37. Moreover, as a subject of the “Lordship of Ottenstein” she could not have absented herself for any length of time without it being noted.
D) Frank wrote in his report that Adolf Hitler told him in a conversation that he knew there were no Jews in his family because he had talked with his father and grandmother about it. But Hitler could not have said that—his grandmother had been dead since before he was born! This shows that Hans Frank’s story is made up out of whole cloth—including the part about “investigating the matter for Hitler.”
12. The Rothschild in Vienna story: This is debunked for the same reasons. Maria Anna Schicklgruber did not visit or live in Vienna, and there is no record of who these Rothschilds were, their address or other necessary information.
13, Patrick Hitler: Another rumor of an alleged newspaper article in the Paris-Soir in which Hitler’s nephew [by his half-brother Alois, Jr.], Patrick, described his uncle Adolf as the grandson of a Graz Jew called Frankenreither. Maser dug up this issue of that defunct newspaper while on a trip to Paris and found it carried two pages and six illustrations of Patrick Hitler’s story, but no allusion whatsoever to any Jewish antecedents.
COMMENTS AND OTHER FINDINGS BY WERNER MASER
1. Maser feels that Johann Nepomuk Hüttler and Alois decided on the change of name in compliance with the wishes of Maria Anna. The inheritance was given in the same year that Alois wrote his name as Hitler. The baptismal record continues to name Johann Georg Hiedler as Alois’ father, but Alois chose to spell the name as Hitler.
2. Klara Pölzl, Alois 3rd wife, mother of Adolf, was a granddaughter of Johann Nepomuk Hüttler and his wife Eva Maria [Decker], making her the niece of her husband Alois. She was considered his niece because Alois was a Schicklgruber and Klara was a Decker on the maternal side. Hüttler died in 1888, Adolf was born in 1889.
3. Adolf Hitler’s maternal grandfather was Johann Baptist Põlzl, a farmer living in Spital. His paternal grandfather was Johann Nepomuk Hüttler, also a Spital farmer. Maser says that there is a distinct family resemblance between all the relations in Spital who are descended from Hüttler, and some of them bear a strong resemblance to Adolf Hitler. Hitler visited Spital in 1905, 1906 and 1908, and several times when on leave during the First World War. He knew his relatives and a great deal about his family history.
Endnotes
1. http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/shaw-hovannisian.htm
The methods used by the Armenian nationalist groups to secure foreign intervention at this time were very well documented by the distinguished Harvard University diplomatic historian, the late William L. Langer, in Diplomacy of Imperialism (2d ed.; New York, 1956), on the basis of Armenian as well as Western reports, and without any use of Turkish sources. Thus he found in the British Parliamentary Papers (Turkey No. 10, 1879, nos. 45 and 62 and Turkey No. 7, 1880, no. 3) statements from the British ambassador in June and July, 1879, such as ‘The same intrigues are now being carried on in Asia Minor to establish an Armenian nationality and to bring about a state of things which may give rise to a Christian outcry and European interference’ (p. 153).
Langer reports (p. 157) that Revolutionary placards were being posted in the cities, and there were not a few cases of the blackmailing of wealthy Armenians, who were forced to contribute to the cause. Europeans in Turkey were agreed that the immediate aim of the agitators was to incite disorder, bring about inhuman reprisals, and so provoke the intervention of the powers. For that reason, it was said, they operated by preference in areas where the Armenians were in a hopeless minority, so that the reprisals would be certain.
Langer concluded (p. 163) that ‘Enough has been said above to make unnecessary any further reference here to the Hentchak and its program and methods. The leaders were quite prepared to have thousands of their fellow-countrymen massacred in order to force intervention by the European powers and in order to raise from the ruins of the Ottoman Empire a new Armenian socialist state.’
Langer states: “Mr. Herbert, the British chargé, appreciated the provocation to the Turks. Mr. Hume-Beaman, an expert on things oriental, roundly declared that every member of the Armenian committees should be hanged, and that the responsibilities for the massacres rested divided between these cowardly committees and the ‘braggart and ineffectual intervention of Europe’.” (Langer, pp. 324-325]
2. This is the first mention of “Jewish godparents.” They appear out of the blue as a “guess” by Langer. The intention is clearly to show Jews as good, compassionate and upstanding people who “saw through” the good-for-nothing Hitler—placing Jews in the superior position morally, financially and educationally.
3. One of Langer’s “informants” who was employed by Hitler in Vienna as an agent for selling his paintings. Their business relationship lasted for 8 months. At that time, Hitler took Hanisch to court for not turning over the money he owed Hitler. Hanisch was found guilty and spent a very short time in jail.

4. Walter C. Langer, The Mind of Adolf Hitler, Basic Books, 1972, pg.111-113.

5. In his book on the Nuremberg Tribunals, Trial of a Nation, Maser alleged that Hitler’s architect, Albert Speer, who was given only a prison sentence by the tribunal, made a secret deal with the chief American prosecutor Robert H. Jackson.

6. The father of Johann Georg Hiedler, born 1792 and Johann Nepomuk Hüttler, born 1807 was Martin Hiedler, born 1762. Johann Nepomuk chose to spell the name Hüttler, or perhaps it was an error by a priest or cleric.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Has anyone ever checked why Adolf's Father Changed the family name to Hitler at age 39? Hitler was born 13 years later... Did he join the illuminati and they renamed him? It might be a rabbit hole worth exploring...

"So Who Was Alois' Real Father?

The mystery concerning Adolf Hitler's grandfather (Alois' father) has spawned a multitude of theories that range from possible to preposterous. Whenever beginning this discussion, we should realize that we can only speculate about this man's identity because the truth rested with Maria Schicklgruber, and as far as we know, she took this information to the grave with her in 1847.

To explain away Adolf Hitler's treatment of Jews, some speculate Adolf's grandfather was a Jew. There is no basis for this speculation.

The simplest and legal answer to Alois' paternity points to Johann Georg Hiedler - the man Maria married five years after Alois' birth. The sole basis for this information dates to Alois' baptismal registry that shows Johann Georg claiming paternity over Alois on June 6, 1876 in front of three witnesses. At first glance, this seems like reliable information until you realize that Johann Georg would have been eighty-four years old and had actually died nineteen years earlier.

Who Changed the Baptismal Registry?
There are many versions of this story, but most point the finger at Johann Georg Hiedler's brother, Johann von Nepomuk Huetler. (The spelling of the last name was always changing - the baptismal registry spells it "Hitler.") Some rumors say that because Johann von Nepomuk had no sons to carry on the name of Hitler, he decided to change Alois' name by claiming that his brother had told him that this was true. Since Alois had lived with Johann von Nepomuk for most of his childhood, it is believable that Alois seemed like his son. Other rumors actually claim that Johann von Nepomuk was Alois' real father and that in this way he could give his son his last name.

No matter who changed it, Alois Schicklgruber officially became Alois Hitler at thirty nine years of age. Since Adolf was born after this name change, Adolf was born Adolf Hitler. But isn't it interesting how close it was?"

http://history1900s.about.com/od/hitleradolf/a/hitlerancestry.htm


"Johann von Nepomuk Hiedler, also known as Johann von Nepomuk Huttler ( 19 March 1807 - 17 September 1888 ) was Adolf Hitler's great Grandfather, and possibly his grandfather too.

The first name Johann Nepomuk recalls that he was named after the Czech saint John Nepomuk . Some assume that this represents something in Czech in his family background. But this holy bishop was also popular in Austria , and therefore he did not require a Czech family connection.

He was relatively wealthy farmer, and was married to the 15-year-old Eva Maria Decker ( 1792 - 1888 ). In the legal sense, he was step-uncle of Aloys Schicklgruber (later Alois Hitler), who was the stepson of his brother Johann Georg Hiedler . For unknown reasons took Johann Nepomuk Hiedler, Alois into his family when he was young and brought him up. It comprises the possibility that he was Alois' biological father, and that the reason he did not go out with the public was her own marriage. But under any circumstance left Nepomuk considerable inheritance.

Nepomuk's granddaughter Klara , had a longstanding relationship with Alois before they married in 1885 , after Alois was widowed for the second time. In 1889 they got their son Adolf Hitler . " link (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fda.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FJohann_Nepomuk_Hiedler&edit-text=)

Johann von Nepomuk Hiedler, also known as Johann von Nepomuk Huttler ( 19 March 1807 - 17 September 1888 ) was Adolf Hitler's great Grandfather, and possibly his grandfather too if the previous story is true about Rothschild not being his grandfather.
yeah I'm sure being a Catholic family that marrying a niece is Kosher... not...

Rothschild is such a law abiding citizen, he would never break a rule of hiring an undocumented worker... making a record disappear... or date a lonely woman...

I think it was a nice attempt, but only convinces me she was more than a maid...


Lionel Nathan Rothschild (22 Nov. 1808 – 3 June 1879) had sex with the servant
Maria Anna Schicklgruber on 31 August 1836 and produced Alois Hitler (7 June 1837
–3 January 1903). Alois has the same bearing as Lionel and his nose, flat cheeks
and chin are very similar to Lionel’s father, Nathan Mayer Rothschild.

link (http://www.globalregional.com/1GR_Spezial/Hallett/Hallett_RoyalCon.htm)

[loungelizard]

Hello Andrew.

i find, when reading new material (I haven't heard of Carolyn Yeager before), signs of bias or opinion leap off the page. These phrases speak volumes:

"Look at the schnoz on both these brothers. "

"The peculiar hatred, bias and ridicule are of the type that only Jews express against their enemies."

"…Langer’s own sick Jewish mind. "

"This is exactly what they know we need to do to Jews in order to save ourselves … to “ferret out the underlying factors” that are bringing about our destruction. "

...new allusions to Jewish superiority…

and she dismisses material that presents a different view of history as "anti-Hitler conspiracy sites"

So...as one of the first steps when reading new material is to research the background of the author, to identify any possible element of propaganda/agenda. So I did.

It seems she is the pin-up girl of the neo Nazi (she has written for The Barnes Review and has a column on the White Knights of America website), who claims that Auschwitz had "flush toilets, porcelain-covered stoves for cozy heating, and double-paned casement windows" and that Birkenau had a “beautiful, modern hygiene building” where guards and inmates “enjoyed friendly competition on Saturday afternoons and Sundays, with enthusiastic cheering sections.”

She is a holocaust denier, and "one of the leading voices in the pro-White and revisionist community" (so says John Friend!) who is attempting to market National Socialism to women. She's the new face of hatred - who also, chillingly, writes about the virtues of motherhood…

Of course, she in entitled to air her views. But it's important to bear in mind that is all they are: opinions that are subject to distortion to reflect a personal belief system.

[Andrew]

who claims that Auschwitz had "flush toilets, porcelain-covered stoves for cozy heating, and double-paned casement windows" and that Birkenau had a “beautiful, modern hygiene building” where guards and inmates “enjoyed friendly competition on Saturday afternoons and Sundays, with enthusiastic cheering sections.”



Loungelizard are these people liers?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXy8RYVfnEU

[lastlegs]

I have to bump this to come back with more time.

[ThePythonicCow]

... the consolidation of resources into the United States under project paperclip, and later the New Deal ...
Detail ... I think you have those two backwards.

The New Deal was in FDR's first two terms, 1933 to roughly 1938. Operation Paperclip began in 1945, after World War II ended.

[ThePythonicCow]

i find, when reading new material (I haven't heard of Carolyn Yeager before), signs of bias or opinion leap off the page.

...
She is a holocaust denier, and "one of the leading voices in the pro-White and revisionist community"

Loungelizard are these people liars?
loungelizard:
The label "holocaust denier" has become an inflammatory smear. Unfortunately, the use of this label tends to derail useful discussions, even when the evidence seems to support it.
Andrew:
One cannot prove that something did not happen, by providing evidence that something else happened as well.
There is a great difference between these three positions:

The concentration camps of the Third Reich were entirely about horrible genocide of as many Jews as possible, in the greatest crime in human history.
There was no genocide at all of the Jews, and they were all treated well in these relocation centers.
It's a jumbled mix of good and bad and shocking evil, with some genocide, some slave labor, some fine humanity, for both Jews and many others, in varying ways, both in the Second World War and in other times, all obfuscated by layers of selective truth, propaganda, laws against honest discussion, and grand lies.

I hold to the third of these positions. I sometimes notice that those who would -appear- to dispute either of the first two positions by -apparently- taking the other of these first two positions risk side tracking useful discussions with (in my view) overly polarized claims.

Those who come before us have most assuredly and deliberately made this topic one of the most dangerous intellectual mine fields of our time.

Please tread cautiously.

[Agape]

who claims that Auschwitz had "flush toilets, porcelain-covered stoves for cozy heating, and double-paned casement windows" and that Birkenau had a “beautiful, modern hygiene building” where guards and inmates “enjoyed friendly competition on Saturday afternoons and Sundays, with enthusiastic cheering sections.”



Loungelizard are these people liers?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXy8RYVfnEU


Andrew .. definitely , out of thousands of people always some will be lying ..and if not lying , due to their age, brain deterioration and whatever form of PTSD,
some have a tendency to mind manufacture testimonies .

I know of quite few good people here n there who claim anything that can't be really verified in connection to their past .. that will rise their personal status in front of their family, children , friends .. others who take lying far enough to receive benefits for 'being war veterans' or similar while they've never been there ,
and some ..who are pathological liars ..though they maybe quite kind and selfless people otherwise . People bordering Alzheimers or other form of dementia are good example of making up 'cute little stories' .

Most of them ..the problem is ..spent their life in very ordinary way , imagining and projecting themselves to fake hero status .

There's been very controversial ( real time ) story coming out with this, two three years ago when elderly couple who claimed to meet each other as young kids through the barbed wire of concentration camp , the boy was in , the girl out and gave him an apple ( something like that ) and then they found each other 20 years later in the US and married , both survivors , great love, spent telling 'their story' all life, were invited to Israel to all those holocaust survivor conferences ,
at the end admitted that it was ALL elaborate hoax . That they wanted to remind people of the drama . That their emotions were genuine but the story was fake ..

It's somewhere 'in papers' . You'd probably find the link if you searched for it. I believe that many who watched TV news ( or whatever ) at that moment 'stopped chewing their apples' . It set many people up and they weren't the only case .

..

On the other hand ... and as I'm telling you , here in Europe , we're in the 'medias res ' , in the crux of these past events and their memories and witnesses and there's no way they were made up . It's really , like if you come 60 years later to Syria ( if there'll be any left ) and try to teach people that the holocaust - literally - happening there now never occurred, that it was all made up by media,
will pull out some conspiracy videos that DO contain controversial testimonies and state it was all CG because we had CG in 2014 .

Please realise , I know you do , that you're not the only one 'questioning holocaust' and that you're part of group influenced heavily by certain sociological and political ideas . This group ran and runs smear campaign in Europe and other parts of the world for decades now, more or less hidden under some regimes , popping up when possible .

It's not any 'new ideology' or information presented here, it's actually very old - at least as old as the Nazi party itself .

The problem as I see it - though wish I was wrong - is that you may never be able to move from your fixed opinion on these matters ..

and in result, will miss plenty of 'big picture' causes and consequences that are running this world .

And this isn't personal . There are many other 'ideologists' and 'conspiracy theorists' here and there, walking the world with shades on their eyes that they never put down and say that's how it looks to me.


:angel:

[loungelizard]

Hello Andrew

I have a very slow internet connection at the moment, so it's hard to watch videos but I have persisted (even though it took for ever…what a way to spend a Sunday morning…)

Firstly, the title of this film - "Holohoax"- is inflammatory. The site referenced at the end of the video is HolocaustDenier.com which makes it clear the belief system of the film maker.

The study of history is nothing to do with trying to prove to you that I'm more right than you are. It's a matter of putting your own bias and opinions to one side and sifting objectively through evidence with a clear head and an open mind. With regard to this evidence, the opening statement of the Nuremburg trials makes clear, ‘In order to avoid any accusation of exclusive reliance on personal testimony, which later generations might perceive to be biased, prosecutors decided to base their case primarily on thousands of documents, artefacts, diagrams, and photographs by the Germans themselves.

I have used the search facility in the Visual History Archive (referred to at the beginning of the video for these testimonies), and as far as I can see, these interviews are not part of the archive. Does anyone know where they're from? Rather than watching a series of edited snippets of interviews, it would be far more educational to be able to watch the entire interviews. But unfortunately, I can't find any reference to names or sources in the video - it's not even clear to which camp they are referring in their interview.

OK, down to specifics in this video.

Orchestra at Auschwitz?
Yes, there was - the Visual History Archive has 519 testimonies of survivors speaking about this subject. The official camp orchestra was created by order of the SS in December 1940.

One of the musicians, Herman Sachnowitz, described his duties:
"Every morning, we played as the inmate work crews departed: the same in the evening when they returned to the camp. We also played on other occasions, especially during executions by order of the SS. These occurred on Sunday afternoons. Maybe they wanted to drown out the last protestations and final curses with music. A grotesque spectacle that had been ordered at the highest level. And the SS men surrounded us with loaded weapons so we had no choice but to play. "

At Birkenau, musicians were made to play as the trains pulled in to give an air of festivity and welcome the new inmates.Members of the orchestras gave private performances for the guards.

This is all well documented, Andrew. If you're interested, here is quite a comprehensive site http://holocaustmusic.ort.org/places/camps/camp-orchestras/

A movie theatre at Buchenwald?
Yes, and a zoo with a bear pit. And approximately 56,545 people died there (and it wasn't even a death camp).

There was also a reservoir at Auschwitz that was used as a swimming pool - for the SS and a few chosen kapos. And?

And there was a brothel at Auschwitz - for the SS. And?

Postcards?
Yes, some postcards were sent from some camps. What a golden opportunity for propaganda. They were tightly censored, and often dictated by the SS guards. A postcard saying "I'm fine!" goes a long way to hide the truth of genocide from the recipient…

Theirenstadt?
Part of this establishment was a "show camp" - a tremendously successful piece of propaganda by the Nazi party that a) Jews were only being"resettled": in Nazi documentation it is described in the propaganda as a "spa town" where elderly German Jews could "retire" in safety - it was the only camp where religious practice was permitted. Even though it was primarily a transit camp, 33,000 people died there. Some "spa town"….but the ghetto there were lots of artists, musicians, actors etc and they did have an amazingly rich cultural life - have you ever seen the collection of drawing by the children of the ghetto there?

Football?
Yes, the SS thought it fun to set up matches against the prisoners. And? At 10.45 there is a claim that the football pitch at Auschwitz was next to the gas chambers, with the implication that this somehow disproves the theory of mass executions. There are plenty of witness testimonies that speak of atrocities being witnessed during football matches http://www.polskawalczaca.com/viewtopic.php?p=37022&sid=3aba622f7c8f0b427b6a797665be4cf4

History is a complex mesh of entanglement - there are many, many contradictions in the body known as the Third Reich. How these snippets of interviews are held up to be proof that the holocaust did not happen - that it was a "holohoax" - and that the prisoners were actually all fine and dandy and having a wonderful time is not something I can understand. Is the film maker actually saying that an artist painting a life-affirming mural on the walls of a children's barracks (12 mins) proves that it was all happy families? Seriously?

Oh my. I've just managed to watch the end of the film - for those who don't make it that far, the final couple of seconds comprise of a photograph of a family group and a voice over stating that these are survivors of the holocaust. The text on the screen seems to be doubting the veracity of the holocaust based on how many lived through it:


"The incredible amount of "survivors" of "death camps"

I'm speechless.

PS (so much for being speechless :o) - in reply to your question "are these people liars"...depends who you mean when you say "these people"...the film makers or the survivors.

Upon analysis of this film, it's very clear who is lying here.

[Ahnung-quay]

I tend to agree with gripreaper that this was the same game plan that has been played out again and again on this planet by the elite. Does it really matter who/what Adolf Hitler was? Does it really matter how many Jews, Gypsies and political dissidents were exterminated? If even one died (and we know that the mass sacrifice was way more than one) it would be too many. Imagine the human potential lost! We are all connected and when we lose souls in this type of horrendous pogrom, we lose part of ourselves.

I thought long and hard before posting what I'm posting now since it is very personal. It has to do with a past life memory that I've been shown during two dreams and one meditation. I don't know if was a life that my soul lived or it was a collective memory that I was seeing but, it is very real to me.

The first dream- I was a teenage girl living with my mother in a townhouse. It had a very European or Dutch feel to it. I was changing bed linens and my mother was in the library writing letters (not the same mother that I had in this present life). The house was cold. I was wearing a gray coat. My mother was wearing a high necked blouse and a black shawl. I also got the impression that we used to have servants to do the household tasks that I was now doing. The doorbell rang. I answered the door and a constable entered the room. I got the impression that he had come to say farewell to us. We engaged in small talk and he asked about my mother. I showed him to the library. I heard him say to her that there was nothing he could do. She accepted what he said with quiet grace. When I woke up from this dream, I "knew" that we were waiting for the Nazis to come and take us away. I also "knew" that my father and a brother had already been removed.

Second dream- Again I was the same teenage girl dressed in a gray wool coat. I was standing in front of a bureau with a woman in Nazi uniform. Her dishwater blond hair was pulled back in a severe bun. I was handing her jewelry. As I did so I had feelings of anger, sadness, hopelessness. The I thought, well, they're just things.... The dream ended and, when I woke, I realized that it was continuation of the previous dream.

Meditation- I was doing a heart center meditation following guidelines as developed by Drunvalo Melchizedek. In this mediation, one is supposed to be able to enter a special place that is only theirs that exists within one's heart. I entered my heart space. I was in a room that was partially underground. The walls were made of brick. There was a large door leading to another room. I wondered were I could be? There was a feeling of extreme fear. I looked into the other room and I realized that I was in the gas shower. I quickly ended the mediation because at that point I had a strong feeling that I would die if I stayed there. In hind sight, I wish that I would have stayed and explored that place more fully but, I wasn't as emotionally strong then as I am now. On reflection, I knew that my mother and I were taken there and that is where our lives ended.

There is another thread on PA where it was discussed that the Nazi factions in the Ukraine had handed out letters to the Jewish people informing them that they had to register their persons and their property. When I read that I almost became physically sick. I'm happy that it was misinformation.

To me, how many died, who died, who Adolf was or wasn't doesn't matter. What matters is that when these mass sacrifices happen, it hurts all of us on a collective soul level. It doesn't matter where in the world it happens or when it happens. We are wounded. The path to healing this lies in us standing up and declaring "no more". Living by honoring and respecting each other and recognizing that we are one and, in teaching our children to live by this.

Mitakuye Oyasin.

[Roisin]

Any kind of adulation of Hitler or "reconsideration" of the degree and magnitude of his crimes that strives to diminish the negatively of his crimes to put him in a better light makes me nauseous. To the vast majority of the world, Hitler was Satan incarnated and there's plenty of hard-core proof and evidence to support that reality.

Sorry folks, I'm not jumping on the bandwagon with people here who are more or less implying that he wasn't as evil and destructive as historians make him out to be. Nor do I support those violent acts against Jews, Blacks, Asians, Homosexuals, the handicapped and etc and etc the world over by Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists. That they even exist gives strong indication that someday, another "Hitler" will rise to the fore and spread evil throughout the world again on an even more unprecedented scale than his predecessor.

Hence why the righteous need to constantly remain alert for his reappearance in the world political theater to be able to nip that bud with surgical precision by throwing him back into the abyss from which he came.This absolutely needs to be done not only in our continuing fight against evil that manifests as crimes against humanity... but for our very own survival too.

[Operator]

I tend to agree with gripreaper that this was the same game plan that has been played out again and again on this planet by the elite. Does it really matter who/what Adolf Hitler was? Does it really matter how many Jews, Gypsies and political dissidents were exterminated? If even one died (and we know that the mass sacrifice was way more than one) it would be too many. Imagine the human potential lost! We are all connected and when we lose souls in this type of horrendous pogrom, we lose part of ourselves.
---


I tend to agree too ... however since we live in a problem, reaction, solution world it unfortunately does matter how things are
packaged and sold to the public en large. While we also know that history is written by the victors it might not be a bad idea to be
cautious with 'official' narratives too. The worst thing that can happen is that we don't learn from the events. What we need is pure
truthful facts otherwise we create new ideologies based on myths, one way or the other!

[loungelizard]

While we also know that history is written by the victors it might not be a bad idea to be
cautious with 'official' narratives too.

I agree with much of your post, Operator, but it's really important to acknowledge the fact that, when discussing the events of the holocaust, we remember that the Third Reich kept immaculate, comprehensive records of everything they did. The study of this period of history is based around - in the vast majority of cases - source material compiled by the Nazis themselves in the form of records/photos/films/documents/blueprints/diaries.



This wasn't written by the victors, and as there are thousands of pieces of physical evidence, it's not open to interpretation either.

This is the reason for the statement at the beginning of the Nuremberg trials that I quoted: ‘In order to avoid any accusation of exclusive reliance on personal testimony, which later generations might perceive to be biased, prosecutors decided to base their case primarily on thousands of documents, artefacts, diagrams, and photographs by the Germans themselves

We are not talking about opinions, subjective judgments or interpretation as historical accounts can be (either deliberately or innocently) open to interpretation and the projection of an individual's viewpoint.

The history of the holocaust is not a history told by the victors, however much some would like to have you believe that.

[araucaria]

Any kind of adulation of Hitler or "reconsideration" of the degree and magnitude of his crimes that strives to diminish the negatively of his crimes to put him in a better light makes me nauseous. To the vast majority of the world, Hitler was Satan incarnated and there's plenty of hard-core proof and evidence to support that reality.
While I agree with this statement, the problem is that it places a ceiling on this kind of inhuman behaviour. It is like a competition: if you give full marks to the first contestant, you have no wiggle room to accommodate a subsequent contestant who might be even better. If we consider Hitler to be the ultimate evil, then we are closing our minds to the possibility of even worse crimes against humanity. I am not talking about other genocides with even more dead, I am talking of things like the killing of an entire race – humanity – or the killing of souls. These are things that have been placed beyond most people’s imagination by this negative version of the personality cult.


That they even exist gives strong indication that someday, another "Hitler" will rise to the fore and spread evil throughout the world again on an even more unprecedented scale than his predecessor.

Hence why the righteous need to constantly remain alert for his reappearance in the world political theater to be able to nip that bud with surgical precision by throwing him back into the abyss from which he came.

The other problem is in identifying the source of evil with one individual person. This is not how it works these days. While you are watching out for another Hitler, much worse is already being done by the hidden cabal and their followers. One of the features of this cabal is that you will keep looking for the top echelons without ever finding them. When you work your way up to someone like David Rockefeller, you carry on into his ET masters, and their masters ad infinitum. This for me is one meaning of the truncated pyramid: you will never reach the top.

Similarly, it is useless to look out for a returning Christ as an individual: the Christ consciousness is a force shared among many. The days of deciding a conflict through single combat between two champions are long gone. And again: the triangular capstone symbolizing God is ever elusive. You will meet plenty of ‘gods’ on the way, but the ‘Godhead’ itself, never absolutely in this finite existence.

[Roisin]

Adam Silver gives Donald Sterling lifetime ban from NBA

NEW YORK — Denouncing Los Angeles Clippers owner Donald Sterling's racist comments in strong language, NBA Commissioner Adam Silver announced the league has banned Sterling for life and fined him $2.5 million.

Clippers president Andy Roeser will handle day to day operations of the club for now, according to a person familiar with the situation.

The person spoke to USA TODAY Sports on condition of anonymity because the sensitivity of the situation.

"The central findings of the investigation are that the man whose voice is on the recordings ... is Mr. Sterling and that the hateful feelings are those of Mr. Sterling. The views expressed by Mr. Sterling are deeply disturbing and alarming," Silver said during a news conference Tuesday.

"As for Mr. Sterling's ownership interest in the Clippers," Silver said. "I will urge the board of governors to force a sale of the team and will do everything in my power to ensure that happens."

PLAYERS: Full support of Silver's decision

TWITTER: NBA community reacts to news

Silver said he made the decision to ban Sterling Tuesday morning and that he will begin immediately the process of trying to get Sterling to sell the team.

"This has been a painful moment for all members of the NBA family," Silver said.

Sliver said he didn't poll the owners, but did speak to several who he said supports the decision.

"The owners have the authority subject to three-quarters vote, to remove him as owner," Silver said.

Silver said that he will push owners to vote on the matter quickly. Sentiment from owners is starting to come out.

"On behalf of the Miller family, we support the decisive action by Commissioner Silver and the NBA to reaffirm that there is no place for racism and hatred in our league," said Greg Miller. CEO of the Larry H. Miller Group, owner of the Utah Jazz. "The Jazz organization and all the teams in the NBA should act as national leaders in promoting inclusiveness and diversity. We have a responsibility in our communities to fight against discrimination and ignorance and showcase sports as an example of respect and tolerance. While this situation has been inexcusable, I hope it serves the greater purpose of reinforcing our vigilance against this type of behavior."

STATEMENT: Listen to and read Silver's comments

OFFICIAL RELEASE: Silver's decree laid out with specifics

"I commend Commissioner Adam Silver in being diligent in how he handled this important matter," said Atlanta Hawks majority owner Bruce Levenson, who had already said he would vote to remove Sterling if a vote was taken. "He acted swiftly and appropriately with the severity of the penalty and I strongly support his decision."

The fine will be donated to organizations dedicated to anti-discrimination and tolerance efforts that will be jointly selected by the NBA and the Players Association, Silver said.

Kevin Johnson, the Sacramento mayor and former NBA All-Star, expressed his support for Silver.

"The players spoke, they acted, and they were listened to," said Johnson, who is working for the players association at the request of Chris Paul, the Clippers guard and president of the union. "On this day, Adam Silver is not only the owners' commissioner, he is the players' commissioner and we're proud to call him our commissioner."

In Silver's first seminal moment as commissioner since taking over for David Stern in February, he issued the heaviest penalty possible under his power, which is governed by the NBA's private constitution and bylaws.

Sponsors began pulling out Monday and Silver said marketing partners should judge NBA based on league's response to Sterling incident.

Promising a quick investigation, Silver said Sterling confirmed his is the voice on the audio and said the recording was not tampered with, as the Clippers suggested was possible in a statement on Saturday.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/clippers/2014/04/29/donald-sterling-fine-penalty-racism-audio-commissioner-adam-silver-los-angeles-suspension/8460575/

-------
There's still hope for a better world folks. Such scenario's as what occurred in the above case gives us hope.We are after all, ALL creatures of God. Those who are the antithesis of God, which is Love, need to be banished to contemplate on their errors. Mr. Sterling, is a good case in point.

[giovonni]

Red Ice Radio


August 18, 2014

Dennis Wise is an independent film maker with a background in entertainment and media. Apart from researching and producing documentaries, today he still produces private videos for clients. Dennis joins us to discuss his 6.5 hour documentary called, Adolf Hitler: The Greatest Story Never Told, which has taken the internet by storm. It has been hailed as, “The single most important media contribution in the last 70-years.” The controversial 26 part series was made under the constant threat of being banned by YouTube and after 24 episodes, the inevitable did finally happen. However, by that time it had already circulated around the internet with the series being hosted on numerous websites. What makes the documentary so fascinating is not only the way it single-handedly dismantles the propaganda and myths surrounding Adolf Hitler, but also completely turns on its head the Allies' version of World War Two, in what can only be described as history’s greatest ever cover up. We’ll discuss who many believe was the most evil man that has ever lived, Hitler. Dennis talks about Germany prior to Hitler, events that led up to the war and Hitler’s relationship with the Jews. Also, we talk about the conspiracy theories surrounding Hitler, which do not add up" ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5f_ctnVUTc

Adolf Hitler: The Greatest Story Never Told >Here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhGfCTA_6wA)

[Kryztian]

I was going to listen to the radio broadcast, however, the first thing Hendrik, the announcer, asks you to do is watch the series of videos that comprise the documentary. The entire thing is about 6 hours long.

You can watch it on their website at http://thegreateststorynevertold.tv/ where it is divided up into 27 segments, or watch on Youtube at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhGfCTA_6wA.

[Flash]

2 hours into watching: incredibly instructive, war seen from another point, the German point of view and what the allied did or did not do, that is not always quite humane (ex: the Cossack killing by sending them back to Staline, knowing very well they would be killed and the Japan Pearl Harbor attack that was expected in USA - newspaper article showing Japanese attack to be expected).

Or the Ukrainians kissing the Germans getting in because they freed them from the Stalinian killer dictatorship. "It was magnificient, we were absolutely convinced that the German came in to save us from communism, .... German soldiers protecting us...)

BUT MOSTLY WHY HITLER GOT INTO WAR - GERMANY WAS HAVING ECONOMIC SANCTIONS FROM THE WEST FOR HAVING RECUPERATED THE BANKING SYSTEM FOR AND BY GERMANS. FURTHERMORE, HITLER HAD TAKEN OFF THE ZIONISTS FROM POWER, REPRESENTING A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION BUT BEING MORE THAN 20% IN THE MAIN POSITIONS AT THE GOVERNMENT. History is repeated again and again it seems. He did finance their departure for Palestine, and let them go with all their wealth if they wished to go, before the war.

Then, the army went to protect some Germans isolated in Poland and being mass killed and the war started. It seems that Hitler required no less than four times a peace process from London, which was never granted - he did not want to fight the British, saying they were very similar to Germans.

Really has to be listened to, very interesting.

Edit: at 3hours15min., the Stalinian purges of the Tatar race, the history of Mini Flash family from her dad side, having been subject to the Leninian ethnic cleansing of Crimean Tatar farmers and officers on one side and then to the Stalinian ethnic cleansing of Tatar on the other side of her dad's family. I have heard about it but had never seen it filmed or written, I will show this to Mini Flash.

[giovonni]

Yes ...

It is quite a lot to consume in one setting, but i believe the content helps fill a void that's been lacking. Please keep an open mind. i suggest digesting the material in palatable portions. Note the arguments of who suffered the most, is not what should be wholly considered. Accuracy and fairness. This is what truly matters. Weighing the facts with blindness to emotion. This needs to be considered, if we want to live together as human. Otherwise we as the decedents of those who came before us, will never learn to transmute and realize what it truly is to be human beings becoming.

[aheb]

Great interview thanks for posting. The truth is important, and now it explains to me about the Nazis in Ukraine and why they are Nazis. I watched another video recently which perhaps casts a different light.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLdoR82RJH0&index=2&list=PLiaPf1ifZ4MeslYrczPTZ8V5gmftvAKhN

according to Sheridan the thule society were behins the Nazis even in 1919

[Cidersomerset]

Strange interview for Heinrick I don't know where to start, Did the people of Denmark, Norway
Holland, Belguim ,Luxemburg, Greece, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, France, Poland, Russia and
eventually Italy all welcome the German Army to invade their countries from 1938 to 1943. The
last two years the Reich was on the retreat. Whether Hitler was evil or not is irrelevant, and
history is often changed by the victors , so propaganda from all sides has to be acknowledged.

Hitler was not the Devil in carnet and if you watch his early life you will see his views were
quite normal for his upbringing, trying to be an artist in Austria, joining the Bavarian Army in
WW1 part of Imperial German Empire, being wounded twice on the western front and awarded
medals for wounds and bravery. From 1919 to 1933 he was a political activist who spent time
in prison for his part in an attempted Munich Putsch in 1923 , where he wrote Main Kampf.

Hitler did come to power via the ballot box in 1933, then did not have another election and became
Fuhrer for life, (which leads to a whole other subject as to whether he died in the bunker or
escaped to South America). There are major events, murders of politicalrivals and a militarisation
of Germany over a very few years.

As to other conspiracy theories about Hitler being funded by power full families that create war
for profit as we see today with the mil ind complex, that's possible as to whether they were in touch
with ET's thru the Vril and Thula societies. If you watched Kerrys vid with Captain Philips he claimed all
the major powers are involved with different factions of ET's, and that could of been happening all thru our history.

Back to mainstream history there have been a lot of dumbed downed documentaries over the last
decade or so. But there are still good ones out there, Hitler did become a meglamaniac as the war
went on , ask his Generals, Rommel who Hitler told to stand at the Battle of El Alamein to the last
man. Fortunately Rommel saw Hitler was losing site of reality and disobeyed and put his name to
the failed attempt to assassinate Hitler in the Wolf's lair and payed with his life. Or Gen Von Paulus
also told to hold till the last man at Stalingrad after Rommel thought better of it. After holding for
months the German garrison was on the verge of collapse. Hitler promoted Von Paulus to Field
Marshall , knowing no German officer of that rank had surrendered in the field. Meaning he expected
Von Paulus to shoot himself rather than be captured. Von Paulus promptly surrendered his half starved
garrison the next day. It should be said very few made it back to Germany after years in Soviet
labour camps. Even at the end in Berlin Hitler was ordering armies to attack that were either depleted
or unable. There is speculation that the Reichs secret weapons were not ready and those that were,
could not stop the sheer number of allied soldiers advancing from the East, West and South into the
Reich. The question of civilians murdered by 'death squads. not only by the SS but many nationalities
with there own local grievances against various minorities in all the occupied countries to some degree,s
is documented fact. The labour camps and death camps were all over occupied Europe. There is debate
to how many died, but in the end the answer is to many.


As the years go by History does fade and we repeat the same cycles as seems to be happening now.
The regime headed by Hitler was definitely unpleasant , as with many throughout history.

[giovonni]

From my perspective there is nothing very admirable about Adolf Hitler and his former Third Reich government ... But i do now understand better (after viewing this material) the overall dynamics that were occurring in Germany and Europe during that time. What i came away with most with this material, was just how gullible and vulnerable we again are in allowing and repeating this kind behavioral history. To truly believe one side only committed atrocities and the other side didn’t is being naive ... For some of us - it is still (fresh) in memory ... But for those born within the last thirty years, there's little real connect. That's why (in my humble opinion), i feel it is most relevant now (today) in reviewing - if not learning how not to allow this madness to repeat itself.

[Delight]

......history is often changed by the victors , so propaganda from all sides has to be acknowledged.

As the years go by History does fade and we repeat the same cycles as seems to be happening now.


I did watch some of this series from Dennis Wise.
I am absolutely certain that the stories of the World Wars I II (EVERY WAR) was and can only be biased. I learned a long time ago about that truth so I am not trusting any of it. I have SO MANY friends who lost their whole world due to war that I am a committed pacifist (even have a card somewhere). I bet all who read this will have that same experience of knowing who lost their worlds through war. WAR, WAR, WAR, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing. Say it again....

But that does not give me any peace about what I feel a passion on.... What if we are quite reactionarily, regressively and ignorantly being looped to NOW have the same back story of Xenophobia leading to willingness to be participants in racially cleansing, culturally justified fascism?

Rage seems to be building and when there is rage, it eventually erupts and when it erupts it seeks the low common denominator lying downhill and close to the picture of the scapegoat our personal cultural history taught us looms in the shadow? This includes whites, feminists, communists, islamists, blacks, pinks, chinese, jews, and etc......................................

I do not understand this uprising focus on the issues like genocide of the white race on Red Ice. But then I do not have that history.

Mine is of the American South and rural Appalachia where minorities will not be found in numbers. But I do know that the single most difficult "multicultural" experience where I live now is of white people form Florida moving here. the people from Florida are considered to be the problem by many. This is not based on race so it is not race only. It is "stranger phobia" and a feeling of being threatened.

As I said before, times look tough and the button is waiting to be pushed? It was the extreme punishmnent of the German people after WWI that led to climate of rage and the need for a savior and a scapegoat IMO.

In the South after the Civil War, there was much blood shed of factions and in my area, vigilanties who were in sympathy with the South IN the war, targeted those who had supported the North in my area. If a family had supported the Northern side,they were likely to be burned out.

People who were advantaged in the past feel thwarted by what others see as necessary steps towards progress. There has been a backlash against feminism and the attempts to make the playing feel more even for the whole.

Crowds act but it is individual rage that gathers the momentum.

Here is a video about a counter concern of significance IMO....RACISM is maybe NOT the best word? Fear of being threatened by the outside of whatever group is taught and may probably easily be classified in racial differences. Inculcation starts early in the teachings of children about who is the foe, who is the friend and seems to be a great tool for the fascist agendas in all times?

I feel better now. Thanks for letting me speak. Maggie

FeSz3lT4mqs

[loungelizard]

I'd like to comment on Episode 21: the Leuchter Findings.

The Leuchter Report has been utterly discredited time and time again. The claims that Leuchter made about being an engineer were a lie. When called to be an expert witness at the trial of Zundel, Judge Ron Thomas called his methodology "ridiculous" and "preposterous", and of "no greater value than that of an ordinary tourist". He has no qualifications or work experience in the field chemistry or toxicology.

David Hirsch, in his book. Law Against Genocide. sums it up as "The Leuchter report, was, indeed, an amateurish report produced by a man with no expertise, either historical or forensic."
There's a film about his life and his fraudulent claims: Mr Death : The Rise and fall of Fred A Leuchter. I can't think why on earth Dennis Wise thought it a good idea to use Leuchter's findings in this film.

The other contributor to this episode was David Cole/David Stein. He was a film maker, who had a brief career in the limelight as an amateur holocaust revisionist in the 1990s.

Cole claims that Dr Piper, chair of the Historical Department at the Auschwitz State Museum, concurred with his own doubts about the usage of Krema 1 gas chamber. I happen to know what Dr Piper thought about his experience with David Cole; in the letter at this link, he calls the interview "a sham", and accuses Cole of being deceitful, manipulating and a liar, ending the letter with "I take the fact my name is used for disseminating such kind of lies and hiding of the obvious truth as a lack of honesty and dignity. "

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/p/piper.franciszek/press/daily.texan.1093

Cole not what you'd term a weighty scholar or researcher - and again, I can't think why Dennis Wise thought he would be an asset to his film

Actually, thinking about it, maybe I do know why ;). Because both Leuchter and Cole give Dennis Wise's audience what they want to hear. And if you wonder who Dennis Wise's audience is, look at the comments under the video on YouTube (where the owner of the channel states "I will remove comments made by Jewbots") and also see what kind of sites Google brings up when you do a search on this film.

I have no idea whether or not this was Dennis Wise's intention, but The Greatest Story Ever Told has become essential viewing for a whole range of extremists, including Neo Nazis, whose desire is to rewrite history so that it fits more snugly into their personal ideology. It's hardly open minded, out of the box research that has been well executed and documented; if it was, it would be worth spending 6.5 hours watching it!

To find the truth, we have to examine the historical narrative, place it nude microscopic scrutiny, question it with an open minded approach - while holding an awareness that our own personal agenda could colour our conclusions. Dennis Wise has yet to learn this skill, certainly as far as his research into the events of the holocaust are concerned.

[giovonni]

That's the sad part about sharing published material ...
Anything can be be misused - manipulated and misinterpreted ...

Just take that creative historical narrative called the Bible for example ...

Again As All Avalionians Are Aware Discernment Always !

[Curt]

I think we need to be very careful with this material.

There is a growing movement afoot to revise Hitler's biography and to rekindle an interest in national socialist philosophy.

It's being packaged in a way that is designed to be palatable to communities like ours. See John Lash's recent interview with Red Ice for a hint of what I'm talking about. http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2014/08/RIR-140804.php

Ethnic hatreds are being stoked intentionally.

Documentaries like this are about more than 'finding the truth' about an historical figure, or determining what really happened during WWII.

They're laying the groundwork, ironically, or perhaps fittingly, for the radical Zionist endgame. They're pushing us toward division, animosity and ultimate conflict.

Radical Zionism is creating a scenario where Israel will be sacrificed.

The goal is to usher forth a messiah and new world system.

That's the theology behind the geopolitics, and it's shared by Zionists of all creeds.

To accomplish their endgame, they need an opposing force. They need to be hated.

Don't fall for it.

See it for what it is: another opportunity to pick a false side in a game that should not be played.

The only way to win here is not to play the game.

From War Games:

MpmGXeAtWUw

[aheb]

The reason that you have films like this is because people are not allowed to discuss the holocaust, and if you disagree with it in certain places in Europe you can be imprisoned. It's very similar in that sense to 9/11 if they just had a very public enquiry were all the facts were published then there would be nothing left to have conspiracy theories about. The fact that they don't will encourage speculation, and may indeed lead to an outcome that the people denying the enquiries really don't want.

[giovonni]

Thanks Curt ...

i believe most here understand your concern, but balance most be restored ...

there's only one side in my opinion when it comes to humankind.

[Cidersomerset]

A lot of the clips from the first hour of the documentry are
from the movie. The Rise of Hitler. From the snippets given
in the first hour the doc, it states he was a 'fanatic several
times.including reference to his war service and how he seemed
to revel in the glory of war, Something millions of soldiers
/warriors have done thru history. Only he frowned on the
Christmas truce and loved the military life, which is not
surprising after years living in a hostel, destitute in Vienna.
Life in the barracks and at the front was exhilarating for him.

The comment about the officers saying he was not a leader
of men in the field is right from his attitude depicted in the
doc. There was snobbery in the officer corp and Adolph
would not have been seen as a gentleman . Though in war
time field commissions meant class status was waved,
but Hitler was probably seen as to wreckless to lead a
company during the lulls between engagements.

Later comments about his private life, not liking bawdy
or political jokes, the fact he manipulated events to
become a military dictator. The main events from
becoming Fuhrer in 1933 to invading Poland in
1938, only five years saw Germany rearm on a
massive rate, and is partly why he was able to
put everyone to work. Many people were glad that a
strong leadership had been installed. But what did
he ultimately give to the German people a few years
of false hope and glory followed by death and destruction,

The further partition of the country worse than Versailles
and 50 years of cold war and division.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

The Rise of Hitler (Full Film)

hlW4uxNsSDs

[Curt]

Balance would be ideal. And I take what you said about the importance of discernment very seriously.

I believe people who seek the truth should seek it no matter where it leads- no matter how difficult, unpopular or bleak.

But we need to be careful to vet the ideas of those who, on the surface, may seem to share a common interest with us.

Their ultimate intent may be very different to our own.

Where we may be looking for truth, they may be looking to advance an agenda.

Discernment ain't easy. Hats off to all who attempt to seek the truth and manage to avoid the mines in the process.

:yo:


Thanks Curt ...

i believe most here understand your concern, but balance most be restored ...

there's only one side in my opinion when it comes to humankind.

[giovonni]

Yes

After posting here on this forum almost daily since its inception, i have learned to tread cautiously and softly ...

Careful - defined - making sure of avoiding potential danger, mishap, or harm.

PS ~
i hope there is not a unconscious intent to distract others from viewing this material and deciding for themselves ?

[Curt]

Hi Giovanni,

Nope. :) I have a very direct and open intent to shed light on (and provide context for) what I view to be a dangerous trend in the alternative community.

To be perfecty frank, I'd prefer not to be doing it.

Sticking my head up over the parapet and pissing off both the zionists and those who hate them isn't exactly a stress-free way to spend one's time.




Yes

After posting here on this forum almost daily since its inception, i have learned to tread cautiously and softly ...

Careful - defined - making sure of avoiding potential danger, mishap, or harm.

PS ~
i hope there is not a unconscious intent to distract others from viewing this material and deciding for themselves here.

[giovonni]

Good to hear that Curt ...

:behindsofa:

[Cidersomerset]

PS ~
i hope there is not a unconscious intent to distract others from viewing this material and deciding for themselves ?

I'm aware of that as well, there was a long indepth thread put up about
this a couple of months ago and it was difficult not to get polarised on
parts of the discussion. I even tried listening to Mein Kampf , I listened
to the first hour it was heavy going. Though I will finish it at some time.


MehYgdRWgo8

Published on 4 Jan 2014


An autobiographical manifesto by Nazi leader Adolf Hitler, in which
he outlines his political ideology and future plans for Germany.
Volume 1 of Mein Kampf was published in 1925 and Volume 2 in
1926.The book was edited by the former Hieronymite friar Bernhard
Stempfle who later died during the Night of the Long Knives

[loungelizard]

The reason that you have films like this is because people are not allowed to discuss the holocaust, and if you disagree with it in certain places in Europe you can be imprisoned. It's very similar in that sense to 9/11 if they just had a very public enquiry were all the facts were published then there would be nothing left to have conspiracy theories about. The fact that they don't will encourage speculation, and may indeed lead to an outcome that the people denying the enquiries really don't want.

Hello Aheb

At the risk of sounding nit picky…and apologies in advance for the length of this post and the ranting tone :o but I think it's really important to be precise about this subject.

It's not true to state that "people are not allowed to discuss the holocaust". They are. Neither is it true that, "and if you disagree with it in certain places in Europe you can be imprisoned. ".

Holocaust denial is not a matter of "disagreeing with it". It is the assertion that either it never happened, or that the events were trivial.
Lots of people "disagree with it": I think only 9 people have ever been imprisoned for denial in Europe. That's not exactly repressive. People are perfectly free to challenge truisms, ask questions, raise concerns, refute and debate without risk of legal proceedings.

Disputing certain historical facts is not a form of hate. Neither does disputing constitute denial: evidence-based claims should be probed and disseminated.

The problem with Holocaust denial is that, in general, it is often not innocent enquiry. It is part of a propaganda movement that seeks to rewrite history, to deny the reality of the systematic mass murder of six million Jews and millions of others deemed ‘inferior’ by the Nazi regime. The problem is that Holocaust denial denies history, reality and suffering, and sets the scene for legitimising other genocides.

Holocaust denial is legal in 221 countries throughout the world. 14 countries (I think) in Europe have laws that attempt to combat denial, approval, justification or minimalisation of genocide, often under the laws regarding incitement to hatred and assaults on human dignity. These laws do not prevent people questioning the events of the holocaust. They are an attempt to draw attention to those whose questioning is disingenuous, and constitutes falsehoods with the aim of rewriting history.

How do you envisage your idea of a "public enquiry"? How would that differ from the 4 year long Nuremberg trials? Those arrested stood trial in public for the allegations made against them, and were given the opportunity to defend themselves. The trials may not have been perfect, but they are a readily available public record.

Is all the photographic and written evidence that has been catalogued and archived for us all, as individuals, to examine freely, not enough? Documents showing evidence of personal culpability of Nazi leaders and ranking subordinates were discovered in huge numbers after the defeat of Nazi Germany. Such documents included architectural plans for the camps, engineering drafts, test results, accounting ledgers, railroad timetables, payroll records, commendations, orders, deportation lists, meticulously drawn-up death counts...

There are films, videos, televised discussions, documentaries, books, essays, research papers, court records of trials of holocaust deniers, detailed analysis of claims, archaeological studies, forensic reports, thousands of websites…put all these together and you have a public enquiry.

You have to do the work: you have to carry out your own enquiry. The Holocaust is one of the best documented genocides in history, with a wide array of evidence documenting virtually every aspect of it - it's all out there in the public domain.

End of rant :rolleyes:

[giovonni]

While the Jewish Holocaust was truly tragic in human carnage ... Even more compelling in context and proportion are the total numbers of human loses ... This is the real back story of this world waring period ... Which has been all but forgotten in world remembrance. For those interested here is the Wikipedia break down on World War II casualties (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties)

[Flash]

While the Jewish Holocaust was truly tragic in human carnage ... Even more compelling in context and proportion are the total numbers of human loses ... This is the real back story of this world waring period ... Which has been all but forgotten in world remembrance. For those interested here is the Wikipedia break down on World War II casualties (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties)

very obvious, that in terms of total dept, the Soviet Union had the most of it and its border countries, for more than 26 millions in Russia for 13 % of its population dead. But USSR is not the highest one not in proportion of the total population,

In proportion of the total population before the war, it is the people from Jewish religion who have had the biggest toll, around 50% of its population.

Then Germany itself with the countries or régions elsewhere where there was German population around 10% of its population dead.

Then, Asian countries have had the most in proportion to population.

Very interesting

Although the most touched countries were in the Russian sphere, in proportion to its population, it is the Jewish that had the most casualties. And they were not a nation, but from everywhere.

[aheb]

I never had any interest in Hitler or that time in history, and it is only recently that I have become interested and only from the very alternative viewpoint of magic, the occult etc. However, what I notice with agendas is that most people tend to hold one viewpoint that they can't shake.
An example would be politics. I can call cameron and the conservatives from dusk till dawn and few will mind, however if I do the same to labour there will be people who will agree with my first viewpoint but not my second. Similarly if I said socialism was evil people may think me a nazi.
In truth I don't believe any political party is any use until the fractional reserve banking system is changed.whether you call it labour or conservative......we have facists at the helm

[giovonni]

My history lesson and take of the last hundred years is simply this ...

If one is to believe one man (or small group of men) created the so called Nazi party ... Which came forth to infect first the country of Germany ... Creating a new nationalistic state ... Soon moving aggressively outwards ravaging most of Europe ... Seemingly with intention in uprooting and displacing the lives of many ... Then supposedly provoking and causing a deadly catastrophic World War ... Only shortly there after (the war) in seeding and commencing of a new nation state ... Started by another small group of men ... Who are now called Zionist .. Who which are displacing and uprooting the lives of many others ... Which appears to have again reared up that infection anew upon the Middle East ... That appears to be spreading outward throughout the entire world ... One might (can) assume and conclude ... There is a damming Human virus that is still alive - well and thriving again upon the earth.

i can only urge all here to read, view and listen to all that you can ... while the materials are still available for consumption ... So that we (humans) lest not forget the name of this virus called Tyranny ... Before again its to late.

[giovonni]

While the Jewish Holocaust was truly tragic in human carnage ... Even more compelling in context and proportion are the total numbers of human loses ... This is the real back story of this world waring period ... Which has been all but forgotten in world remembrance. For those interested here is the Wikipedia break down on World War II casualties (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties)

very obvious, that in terms of total dept, the Soviet Union had the most of it and its border countries, for more than 26 millions in Russia for 13 % of its population dead. But USSR is not the highest one not in proportion of the total population,

In proportion of the total population before the war, it is the people from Jewish religion who have had the biggest toll, around 50% of its population.

Then Germany itself with the countries or régions elsewhere where there was German population around 10% of its population dead.

Then, Asian countries have had the most in proportion to population.

Very interesting

Although the most touched countries were in the Russian sphere, in proportion to its population, it is the Jewish that had the most casualties. And they were not a nation, but from everywhere.

We should also mention the often still forgotten and forsaken Roma people (Gypsies (http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005219))

[Andrew]

You could read a paragraph or just watch the first five minutes... no need for an explanation.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2ZzrYRRpHU

Sure someone will attempt character assasination on the speaker, if they cant attack the info they attack the person.

Yes Irving retracted what he said once.. I wonder why? maybe he was giving his family a rest?

[aheb]

You could read a paragraph or just watch the first five minutes... no need for an explanation.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2ZzrYRRpHU

Sure someone will attempt character assasination on the speaker, if they cant attack the info they attack the person.

Yes Irving retracted what he said once.. I wonder why? maybe he was giving his family a rest?


I think the retraction came after his prison sentence for being a holocaust denier.......seems some people fear free speech

[giovonni]

I think the retraction came after his prison sentence for being a holocaust denier.......seems some people fear free speech

Imprisonment has been known to have that effect.

[loungelizard]

Giovonni - I don't wish to derail your thread but would like to respond to Andrew :rolleyes:

I watched the first 5 minutes on the video as you suggested, Andrew.

David irving talks of "the most telling incident" that happened in his life. I think this is a perfect example of the way Irving can spin a web of lies. He was never involved in producing a documentary with the BBC. The BBC producer who approached him to appear in a documentary he was making is Nick Fraser, entitled "Journey to the Far Right".

Irving's story about being banned from Auschwitz didn't make to sense to me: in 2010 there was a kerfuffle in the media when Irving announced that he planned to lead a tour group to Auschwitz and was told by the museum that he was welcome to visit as an individual, but not to lead a group as only their guides have authority to do that. Why would they encourage him to visit in 2010 when they supposedly banned him in 1999?

So I wrote to Nick Fraser, author of The Voice of Hatred, and the producer of the BBC programme, to verify Irving's story. This was the gist of Nick's reply:

"It's nonsense!"

It's pretty ironic that Irving is complaining about publishers being denied free speech, when he was the one who filed a lawsuit against Deborah Lipstadt for exercising her right to free speech by referring to him as a holocaust denier…he lost.

As for the "increasing number of otherwise innocent citizens were cast into prison" - spin again! Only 9 people have ever been imprisoned under these laws. Hardly an avalanche.

Accusations of suppression, of denial of the right to free speech, of smear campaigns, of persecution, of loss of academic positions and physical violence are perennial complaints by the "revisionist community" (I can't call them "revisionist historians" as none of them holds a PhD in history)… Classic victim mentality.

All this alleged persecution hasn't stopped them writing books, touring the lecture halls, attending rallies, participating in debates, making videos, setting up websites - as far as I can see, they're pretty active at getting their message across. Irving is still making a comfortable living touring the private lecture circuit. For all his complaining, he's doing very nicely thank you, and owns houses in the UK and Key West, despite having been declared bankrupt in 2002.

Personally, I'm not completely convinced that criminalising those who deny existing knowledge of historical events is the way to go - that could be a whole new thread! - but I understand why these laws have been brought about.

It is very much down to cultural context. Laws exist in 14 European countries which were directly affected by the Nazi ideology, and there is a need of these particular countries to confront their past, and to deter those who seek to justify or glorify it by rewriting history and ignoring the weight of evidence to the contrary.

Brains far bigger than ours are constantly discussing the balance between the right to express one's views in public, and prohibition of incitement to national, racial or religious hatred. They will continue to discuss this and it's well worth reading their opinions if you want to have an open minded approach to this. But it seems that the laws are not working: religious hatred is on the rise in Europe and there is an ongoing assault on the narratives of historical genocides.

It's important to understand the distinction between historical revisionism - the legitimate scholastic re-examination of existing knowledge about a historical event as evidence is uncovered - and the words of those who call themselves revisionists, when they are actually concerned with distorting the historical record (some prefer the title "negationists").

[giovonni]

Giovonni - I don't wish to derail your thread but would like to respond to Andrew

Just as long as you and perhaps Andrew, do not take it in that direction ... Though i think it is safe to say at this time in post WW2 history, that anyone who believes ... Or calls themselves a holocaust denier ... Is not of a rational mind.

[aheb]

Giovonni - I don't wish to derail your thread but would like to respond to Andrew

Just as long as you and perhaps Andrew, do not take it in that direction ... Though i think it is safe to say at this time in post WW2 history, that anyone who believes ... Or calls themselves a holocaust denier ... Is not of a rational mind.

Surely that would depend upon what they were denying?.................If you look at that film it tells you that there was a massacre in Danzig which forced Germany to invade Poland, now I have never heard that before from any source and it casts an entirly different light on the subject.
I remember years ago talking to a family member who had lived in Germany he had spoken to an ex SS officer and said to the guy that he thought that they had treated the jews very badly, the nazi replied " What could we do they were enemies in our midst? we asked the Americans t take them and thy refused"................only in the past couple of years has it been revealed that the Nazis did in fact ask the US to take the Jews and they refused
I must make the point that I believe, as with Islam today, it was not the jews specifically but a small hard core of fanatics who give judaism a bad name.I know some people call them zionists, I think we all should and maybe find a new name for radicalised muslims.Jehadists has been used for them.

[giovonni]

Giovonni - I don't wish to derail your thread but would like to respond to Andrew

Just as long as you and perhaps Andrew, do not take it in that direction ... Though i think it is safe to say at this time in post WW2 history, that anyone who believes ... Or calls themselves a holocaust denier ... Is not of a rational mind.

Surely that would depend upon what they were denying?.................If you look at that film it tells you that there was a massacre in Danzig which forced Germany to invade Poland, now I have never heard that before from any source and it casts an entirly different light on the subject.
I remember years ago talking to a family member who had lived in Germany he had spoken to an ex SS officer and said to the guy that he thought that they had treated the jews very badly, the nazi replied " What could we do they were enemies in our midst? we asked the Americans t take them and thy refused"................only in the past couple of years has it been revealed that the Nazis did in fact ask the US to take the Jews and they refused
I must make the point that I believe, as with Islam today, it was not the jews specifically but a small hard core of fanatics who give judaism a bad name.I know some people call them zionists, I think we all should and maybe find a new name for radicalised muslims.Jehadists has been used for them.

Tushay ...

mr Aheb ...

mr Loungelizard and i have (Pm'ed) in private in these regards ... Since apparently they both (he and Andrew) have had a history in discussing this subject matter ...

To which he (Loungelizard) was very respectful and courtesy to me and the presented OP material on this thread. ... As i hope you will also be ...

Note it is not for me to moderate any forum member in these regards ... Though being the OP presenter, i will monitor in that it stays focused on that original material ... In keeping a high level of purposeful energy on this thread, for sharing this sensitive information ... So that other members and visitors will feel comfortable and not be driven away in viewing this information.

:)

[aheb]

Tushay ...

mr Aheb ...

mr Loungelizard and i have (Pm'ed) in private in these regards ... Since apparently they both (he and Andrew) have had a history in discussing this subject matter ...

To which he (Loungelizard) was very respectful and courtesy to me and the presented OP material on this thread. ... As i hope you will also be ...

Note it is not for me to moderate any forum member in these regards ... Though being the OP presenter, i will monitor in that it stays focused on that original material ... In keeping a high level of purposeful energy on this thread, for sharing this sensitive information ... So that other members and visitors will feel comfortable and not be driven away in viewing this information.

:)

Firstly sorry to Mr.Loungelizard, I missed one of your posts directed at me. What is an op?

but back on topic. In recent years I have come to question everything. 9/11, 7/7, the banking system, our government. To give you my perspective on where this all led me would be very difficult..........maybe if we all sat round in a pub and talked, but on a forum it is very difficult.
Words have life and meanings of their own, and some words change over time......when I listen to the way my sons speak and hear old words used in a new and stranger context............so very often we do not convey what we mean.
I believe that the powers that be , the illuminati if you will have an agenda that they wish to promote, a false narrative for the sheeple....so finding the true agenda, and the true narrative is very difficult. I don't believe all the things said about Hitler, but I don't think that he was a particularly nice guy either..in truth I think he would be a rather boring conversational partner..but if you are a "truther" then you must consider ideas that others don't.........in the UK we have idiot left wingers who shout facist or racist at anyone who argues with them....but when you ask them what a facist is, they seem to think it's a racist who likes uniforms and flags, and they never consider the crimes of Stalin who probably killed as many Jews as Hitler is credited with. I'm just happy to read anything that comes my way..........and I would love to learn more about the jewish religion and the kaballah etc.

[giovonni]

OP = Opening Post

[giovonni]

Will share this here ... It is not directly connected to the opening post, but i feel this material expands on the influences prior to the Hitler era. It also addresses the conspiratorial connections to the turbulent times were living in ... Quite a tangled web it weaves ...


interesting conspiratorial discussion ...

From ~ Time Monk Radio

David Livingstone: Illuminati Studies: Islam, Fascism and Secret Societies


Bio.

David Livingstone was born in Montreal in 1966 of a Jamaican-Canadian father (a school teacher) and French Canadian mother. At age seven, he asked his parents who Plato and Socrates were. Told they were truthseekers, he was shocked. "You mean people don’t know what the truth is?" He resolved to find it out.

Livingstone studied history as an undergraduate but dropped out in 1992 when he realized he was being indoctrinated. "When I read that the Indo European [Aryan] race emerged from the Caucuses, out of nowhere, I got suspicious, and began the 13 years of research that led to my first book, The Dying God: The Hidden History of Western Civilization."

While writing that book, Livingstone paid his bills by planting trees in British Columbia and upholstering furniture in Montreal. Raised as an agnostic, he accepted Islam in 1992 after making a study of the major world religions. He married in 2000 and has three children.


Published on Aug 22, 2014


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULFUTAKQYls&feature=em-uploademail

[loungelizard]

Hello aheb, and thanks for explaining where you're coming from - it made interesting reading.


If you look at that film it tells you that there was a massacre in Danzig which forced Germany to invade Poland, now I have never heard that before from any source and it casts an entirly different light on the subject.

I'm not sure what the Danzig massacre is, or which film you're referring to: I think it could either be the attack on the Danzig Post Office on 1st Sept 1939 by the SS and German police (this was premeditated had been planned in July 1939) sheer only 4 of the 52 Polish defenders survived OR Bloody Sunday, which is also known as the Bromberg Massacre (and for which there are vastly differing accounts - you have to read them all in a attempt to sort through the myths).

Either way, the claim that it was events such as these that "forced Germany to invade Poland" is seriously skewed and obviously propaganda-based. Remember that the Nazi propaganda machine, run efficiently by Goebbels, was one of the main reasons for the Nazis gaining the power they had, holding on to it and being able to implement the policies they did. Reading this stuff is chilling…much of it has its roots in Mein Kampf. Here's an example of Hitler's comprehensive understanding of the power of suggestion and manipulation:

"The receptive powers of the masses are very restricted, and their understanding is feeble. On the other hand, they quickly forget. Such being the case, all effective propaganda must be confined to a few bare essentials and those must be expressed as far as possible in stereotyped formulas. These slogans should be persistently repeated until the very last individual has come to grasp the idea that has been put forward. "


" What could we do they were enemies in our midst?"

What do you think that Nazi in your account meant by that statement?


"…only in the past couple of years has it been revealed that the Nazis did in fact ask the US to take the Jews and they refused"

We have to be careful that, just because we personally haven't heard about something, does not mean that it isn't well documented, common knowledge among those who've been studying such material :o. The lack of response of the US (and other countries) is a fascinating subject that is well worth researching (read up on the Evian conference). in the light of prevailing antisemitism of the 1930s and a sustained economic depression. and a resulting reluctance to increase existing immigration quota.

Prior to Kristalnacht and the establishing of the Nuremburg Laws, the Jews were allowed to leave - but only after they paid large sums of blood money were they issued with necessary documents.

Some did leave - but after 1939, are you aware of how difficult the German state made it for them to do so? If you're interested, I have a PDF of the paperwork/charges/documentation they would have had to have acquired.


"I don't believe all the things said about Hitler…"


When it comes to the distortion of historical evidence by those who deny the reality of the Holocaust, it's vital to remember that this is one of the most meticulously documented events of recent times - a lot of what is known about Hitler is not a matter of belief as it comes from the mountains and mountains of material accumulated by both him, and the Germans.

One of the most noticeable traits of those who want to rewrite this event is their refusal to engage in debate: they make statements and then run away so that they don't have to confront the explanation that blows their argument apart. I suppose they think if they repeat a lie enough times, it will become true. The danger is that this practice undermines all rational thought.

We all know how important it is to question everything, but for me, when reasonable skepticism turns into unthinking, blanket cynicism, our minds can be warped by those pushing agenda - and this applies to both the "mainstream" and "alternative" worlds.

Sorry...another monster post :o

[Andrew]

Remember back before we all had the internet; when we used to watch documentaries on the TV, I particularly remember the JFK ones, they would explain nothing and go on about the magic bullet theory and keep showing JFK getting shot, you would find yourself scratching your head wondering about what they were telling you and it not making any sense. Then the internet arrives and one day you search JFK speeches and you find the secret society speech, listen while wondering why they never played this on the tele, at the same time nearly falling off your chair at what you're hearing! Suddenly you start to see the deceit, propaganda, lies and coverups much more clearer in your mind just from that speech by connecting some dots yourself, realising that for all those years you accepted the original explaination because there was parts left out ie the secret society speech. This is just one episode of deceit there are many others as we are uncovering... I got the same feeling after listening to Hitler speeches and just looking at both sides of the coin and trying to see the why's. We are not educated in certain fields but does that mean we cant investigate or ask questions?

Lounglizard even though you write full pages here and there you really have nothing anymore substantial then the likes of Irving or any other person asking question or pointing out missing facts and so on, you say one source is lieing because this source says so... this document says this so it must be true blah blah blah... there's many forgeries and many lies, I'm open to all but eventually the scale tips and you see a pattern, people just need to work out which way the scale tips for them. If you're open minded and want truth, seek and you shall find (Also depends if you're service to self or service to others to which truths you seek). You mention agendas alot by what agendas do you actually refer?

It's the reasons and why's to understand not the War itself, if you get backed into a corner you fight to get out. One side starts doing bad stuff the other side does to counter it. I heard Stalin ordered his army to go on rape charges and same for the British; I also heard the German side were ordered not to rape because they would get shot?? but then we have the Holocaust which cancels out any fair play. But then you raise questions about the Holocaust write books or have lectures regarding the discrepencies and get thrown in jail even banned from countries, just doesnt make sense?

People dont dedicate their lives to something like this topic just for a bit of cash when there is far easier ways to make money with less hassle.

Who are the leaders in propaganda and deceit? Also like to add that whenever Hitler is speaking it's classed as Propaganda like it's some terrible thing, though it can be used to spread good or bad... whenever the general public here the word they mostly assume it's some evil to twist there minds to do bad, not always the case.

Propaganda -
1.
information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.
2.
the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.
3.
the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or movement.


Every evil deed needs a scapegoat. Divert attention.

[Cidersomerset]

I posted this on the other thread and just watched it again aprox 4mins in
they start talking about no documentary evidence for gas chambers being
installed in Auschwitz during the war and the replica built in 1948 is fake.
Andrew Irving then admits that there is multiple documentations for
the millions of Jews shot on the Eastern front. ( There were millions
of other murdered as well partisans ,villagers etc.... not mentioned )

If the murders in the concentration camps were exaggerated, which I
have seen no proof for. Its a legitimate subject to discuss, in case new
evidence comes to light. There is no doubt many million of civilians were
murdered during WW11 , mainly as a direct result of Hitlers ambition
to conquer and dominate Europe. Events happened very fast , the
German Generals did not expect to rout the French army and British
expeditionary force in May/June 1940.Which led to the occupation
of much of Europe for only 4/5 years resulting in carnage.

Hitler was head of state of the third Reich so in the end was responsible
for all the atrocities committed by the forces and para military units
as well as the allied militias and police that the German forces let carry
out thousands of murders of the various ethnic communities under the
control of his armed forces. It does not mean he was any more evil than
many other leaders including Bush/Obama head of the US military crimes
in Abu graib Iraq. Just that the Third Reich whether by Shooting, hanging
starvation or Gassing was more efficient. Millions also died in Soviet and
Chinese labour camps before and after the war.

Every war Korea, Vietnam right up to the Ukraine .Gaza, Syria and Iraq
once again more atrocities are happening and now we can witness them live
on the web. it is very sad.

I'm open that other powers manipulated events behind the scenes and the Allies
were also guilty of excessive bombing towards the end of the war, and these
same shadowy figures are still creating the circumstances for these conflicts to
continue.

Hardtalk David Irving BBC 2000.....He admits himself he has a despicable
personality jokingly . So He does not dispute millions of Jews died in WW11, just
how.

JF4GFGMNm3g

[Cidersomerset]

David Irving seems to be a bit of bigot and a racist and embellisher,and he has
made several remarks that made me squirm. It maybe his age 76 and some of his
views seem from another era. Aprox 35 mins they mention a poem he wrote
adulating Hitler, then he says (paraphrasing) he was walking in a park with his 9
month old child and saw a 'half cast' child which he said was a tragedy to inflict on
civilisation. When the interviewer starts to question him about it Irving laughs and
shrugs him off..( A must listen to reflect on Irvings character ) Listening to his
comments in the two interviews I just posted and others he does not come over
very well. But that does not disqualifying from expressing his views and
researching, and he is not alone in his views, there are many that seem to share
them.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE IRVING V LIPSTADT TRIAL - 2000 - BBC R4

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Published on 26 Feb 2013


The 2000 libel trial in which David Irving decided to single-handedly sue Deborah
Lipstadt for defaming him as a Holocaust denier, employing the principle that,
if there was no Holocaust, then he couldn't be one!

The trial lasted 32 days during which he employed revisionist evidence he clearly
wasn't too familiar with, or at least had not fully investigated the veracity of, and
a series of courtroom ploys, feints and traps which, if no-one spotted, he openly
announced the pending arrival of. The rest is history.

This is posted for educational interest, as commentary and news footage from
the trial is rare.

====================================================


David Irving's Holocaust Denial Libel Trial - Newsnight

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Published on 15 Feb 2014


April 2000. Report on the case and live interviews with David Irving and Deborah Lippstadt.

[Cidersomerset]

According to David Irving these holocaust survivors are LIARS !!!!!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CBS - 50 Million Holocaust records become public

zoHQIlleCn4

Published on 16 Feb 2013


CBS 60 minutes report on the opening to the public of 50 million nazi Holocaust records.

[Delight]

CBS - 50 Million Holocaust records become public


I know that Gio may have wanted to keep the thread about the videos but when the sources used by the videos are tainted by an agenda, I feel the agenda is wanting to called out......

The first time I heard about deniers of the intentional genocide perpetrated by the National Socialist German Workers' Party, my friend who was arguing the "numbers" and "did the "Holocaust" really happen?" was listening to people like David Irving. IMO, it is really important to call out denial of the intentional elimination of millions of people. IMO we cannot excuse inhumane actions of any person or group and ignore what leads up to genocide itself. This "genocidal" impulse is definitely NOT old history.

In the archives released as shown in the video above, "professionalism" was demonstrated. Precise records kept, the desire to show how well one completed one's tasks. The professionals


are provided with ideologies that alter perceptions of reality in order to justify their lethal behavior. As my colleague Jeff Ferrell reminds us, “authority operates not only through prison cells and poverty, but by constructing and defending epistemologies of universality and truth.” [12]

The state creates popular perceptions of right and wrong, good and evil, and works vigorously to reinforce and defend them. Ideological power is a formidable instrument in the creation of public support or condemnation. It provides a patina of legitimacy that serves to deflect much criticism. “Evil,” as Frank Hagan warns, “often gilds itself with an ideological gloss.” [13]

In closing, we must ask why do these professionals serve genocide so well?

First, we must recognize that many agree with the policies of destruction. Highly educated people are not immune to the biases and prejudices of the society in which they live.

Second, we must understand that many see cooperation as a vehicle to advancement and professional development. Just as scholars today often tailor their research based on opportunities, resources, and “hot” topics, so too do professionals in genocidal societies.

Third, it is important to note that science and bureaucracy are supposed to be amoral. Decisions and actions are supposed to be taken without reference to morality. Science is supposed to be objective, technical, rational, but not moral.

Fourth, we must also remember that the complicity is not necessarily deliberate. Genocidal states are adept at picking, choosing, and manipulating the theories and concepts of scholars.Justifying Genocide: The Role of Professionals in Legitimizing Mass Killing (http://www.ideajournal.com/articles.php?sup=10)

This picking/choosing/manipulating is still at work on several world fronts IMO. And what about a trajectory of stages "theoretical and conceptual" that lead up to genocide and can we see them recurring??

Denial is considered to be a phase of the stages of genocide itself:


The first is Classification, when we classify the world into us versus them.
The second is Symbolization, when we give names to those classifications like Jew and Aryan, Hutu and Tutsi, Turk and Armenian. Sometimes the symbols are physical, like the Nazi yellow star.
The third is Dehumanization, when perpetrators call their victims rats, or cockroaches, cancer, or disease; so eliminating them is actually seen as “cleansing” the society, rather than murder.
The fourth is Organization, when hate groups, armies, and militias organize.
The fifth is Polarization, when moderates are targeted who could stop the process, especially moderates from the perpetrators’ group.
The sixth stage is Preparation, when the perpetrators are trained and armed, victims are identified, transported and concentrated.
The seventh stage is Extermination, what we legally define as genocide, the intentional destruction, in whole or in part, of a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group...
There is an eighth stage in every genocide: Denial. It is actually a continuation of the genocide, because it is a continuing attempt to destroy the victim group psychologically and culturally, to deny its members even the memory of the murders of their relatives.The Cost of Denial (http://www.genocidewatch.org/aboutus/thecostofdenial.html)

How does "denial" operate? This is taken from an article about denial of the Armenian genocide at the hands of the Turks in 1915 but fits the prototype of denial after the fact....


The tactics of genocide denial are predictable.....
Question and minimize the statistics. Attack the motivations of the truth-teller. Blame “out of control” forces for committing the killings. Claim that the massacres don’t fit the legal definition of genocide, even if over a million people were killed.
Blame the victims. Claim that the killings were in self-defense against people who were disloyal
Claim that "the other side" also suffered many deaths......
Claim that the deaths were inadvertent, due to lack of food and water, not due to intentional destruction
Claim that current peace and reconciliation are more important than blaming past perpetrators for genocide.
Most importantly, don’t tell the truth because to do so would not be in current political, economic, and military interests. www.genocidewatch.org/aboutus/thecostofdenial.html


Edit Post

I do not agree with what the US is doing now or the Israelis and I am not sure how we keep the focus off "Us against Them"? It is so seemingly ingrained but it has to stop somewhere.

But I wanted to add this Trudell piece because he is talking about a "pro nuclear oppressor". So maybe any one who has loyalty to the power of the "system" is played by this oppressor.

jn8vSUcaYfY

[Cidersomerset]

As John Trudell say the war cycle seems to be becoming intencified again.
the US in particular seems to be para militerising . There is already a
National Guard and various militia groups. The military coup is already
happening with the militarisation of the police and the division of the
haves and have nots .As he points out America was built on the gun
and the indigenous population was systematically fought and reduced
in spirit and will for the first 200 years and now those not assimilated
are scattered on various reservations.


David Icke has been putting up articles for ages about all these
events that seem manipulated certainly in the ever increasing
severity of the response by authorities all over the US....

The US are lining up to take action against in Iraq against ISIS.
This includes possibly attacking them in Syria ,he also says
borders are no barrier if US lives are at stake. Reffereing to
the murder of the US journalist. This is in stark contrast to
the wests views on Russia responding in the Ukraine, who
have had deaths of it citizens in the border area by stray shells.....


I just saw these articles on Davids site and they are all linked to
current events imo. Classic Problem Reaction Solution. We are
being manipulated again by the TPTB to further their agendas.

You can do this most days and the best way to hide most agenda's
is in plain site, so that events that do not seem linked are in fact
a direct result of others. The mainstream would say they are
coincidental but I don't.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/get-attachment-2642-587x410.jpg

http://www.storyleak.com/swat-team-deployed-after-siblings-fight-with-boat-paddle/

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Missouri Police Officer Brands Ferguson Protesters 'Rabid Dogs'

ruFxs6vI-uo

Published on 23 Aug 2014


Source: https://www.youtube.com/user/videosptv

August 23, 2014 - An American police officer in Missouri has used some harsh
words to describe protesters in Ferguson, calling them rabid



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Pentagon Hypes ISIS Terror Attacks As It Readies War With Syria

EjdWij-7Ri4

Published on 23 Aug 2014


Air Date: August 23rd, 2014

This video may contain copyrighted material. Such material is made available for educational purposes only. This constitutes a 'fair use' of any

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gov't Fear Factory: ISIS Is Here, Just in Time for Another 9/11 Anniversary

6rndnDp3WXY

Published on 22 Aug 2014


The lunatics are running the asylum...

The government has been doing a whole lot of talking lately about the
9/11-style threat ISIS poses on American soil, how ISIS is like 'nothing

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FBI agents to guard UK airports against jihadi fanatics

new Sunday 24th August 2014 at 11:47 By david-icke


http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/FBI-UK-airports-502667.jpg


‘Dozens of FBI agents are to be posted at UK ­airports amid fears that Britain’s anti-
terrorism efforts are failing to keep track of jihadi fanatics.

Three US officers from a specialist FBI counter-terror unit are expected to land at
Heathrow on Tuesday, with another 10 arriving within the week and dozens more
over coming months.

They will monitor suspect passengers as well as ­investigate “terror hot-spots”
across Britain in the wake of the beheading of American James Foley in Iraq. Last
night, however, critics claimed their arrival was an admission that cuts to police and
the UK Border Force had left Britain out of its depth and overwhelmed in the war on terror.’

Read more: FBI agents to guard UK airports against jihadi fanatics


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/502667/FBI-agents-guard-UK-airports-against-jihadi-fanatics


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Obama Buggers Europe: Sanctions Deepen the Recession


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/buggers.jpg

http://www.intifada-palestine.com/2014/08/obama-buggers-europe-sanctions-deepen-recession/

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Spanish Farmers Burn EU Flags Over Brussels’ Policy Toward Russia

http://en.ria.ru/images/19149/40/191494011.jpg

http://en.ria.ru/world/20140823/192272437/Spanish-Farmers-Burn-EU-Flags-Over-Brussels-Policy-Toward.html


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CDC Whistleblower .......US NASI Health Experiments on poor black Americans,
and are still doing similar experiments ....


LhpckzxVEoc


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Cidersomerset]

This article is a echo of events 70 years ago...Ironically the
other way round , this time Germany are the peace makers
and the west/Nato the aggressors...

54Y28LR3tyk

Published on 23 Aug 2014


German Chancellor Angela Merkel met with Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko in
Kiev. Willy Wimmer, the former State Secretary of the Minister of Defence of
Germany, joins RT for analysis of the joint statements by the leaders of both
countries.





-------------------------------------------------------------------------


Russian convoy exits Ukraine

new Sunday 24th August 2014 at 11:04 By david-icke

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/image.adapt_.480.low_.jpg

‘A total of 184 vehicles from the Russian aid convoy, which crossed into Ukraine on
Friday without permission, have returned to Russia from rebel-held Ukranian
territory, a Ukrainian military spokesman said Saturday.

Meanwhile, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Saturday the standoff over
Ukraine could be solved but only if control was tightened over the Ukraine-Russia
border across which, the West alleges, Russia has been funnelling arms to help a
separatist rebellion.’

Read more: Russian convoy exits Ukraine

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/8/23/ukraine-convoy-merkel.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shelling Kills Hundreds in Besieged Luhansk in East Ukraine

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/devastation.jpg



‘Hundreds have died in artillery attacks on eastern Ukraine’s key city of Luhansk as
government troops continue to lay siege to the militia stronghold, according to a
senior official of the self-proclaimed Luhansk People’s Republic.

“As of today, the death toll has climbed into the hundreds. Hundreds of homes have
been torn down, including more than a dozen of apartment blocks and hundreds of
private houses,” LPR Deputy Prime Minister Vasily Nikitin told RIA Novosti Saturday.
Luhansk has been left without running water, electricity and pho

e communications for 20 days as government troops continue to besiege it,
pounding indiscriminately militia positions and residential quarters in and around
the city. All deliveries of food, medication and fuel had long been stopped due to
heavy shelling.’

Read more: Shelling Kills Hundreds in Besieged Luhansk in East Ukraine

http://en.ria.ru/world/20140823/192274711/Shelling-Kills-Hundreds-in-Besieged-Luhansk-in-East-Ukraine.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MH-17 ‘Investigation’: Secret August 8th Agreement Seeps Out

new Sunday 24th August 2014 at 11:15 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/get-attachment-4511-587x306.jpg


‘Regarding what caused the downing of the Malaysian airliner MH-17 in Ukraine on
July 17th, the Ukrainian news agency UNIAN, reported in a brief Russian-language
news story on August 12th, that four days earlier (August 8th) a representative of
that nation’s Prosecutor General office, Yuri Boychenko, had said that (as auto-
translated by google), “the results [of the investigation] will be announced upon
completion of the investigation and with the consent of all the parties who signed
the corresponding agreement.”

This UNIAN report said that, “As part of the four-party agreement signed on August
8 between Ukraine, the Netherlands, Belgium and Australia [all of which nations are
allies of the United States and are cooperating with its new Cold War against
Russia], information on the investigation into the disaster Malaysian ‘Boeing-777’
will not be disclosed.”’

Read more: MH-17 ‘Investigation’: Secret August 8th Agreement Seeps Out




http://rinf.com/alt-news/editorials/mh-17-investigation-secret-august-8th-agreement-seeps/

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wall Street Whistleblower Reveals Subliminals Added to TV

Sunday 24th August 2014 at 11:00 By david-icke

Ilaqk9Rrqnc


http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/
------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Cidersomerset]

Then there is Israel, which has obvious links to the theme of this thread.
I am sorry if this seems like I'm derailing the thread , but looking
on David site as I do most days , this stuck out like a sore thumb.
I know many of the members on here will see the link, but I thought
it worth the effort of posting all these articles for people looking in to
digest.....

The common link is a police state in America and the continuation
of TNWO agenda against Syria, Iran and stifling Russia's increasing
influence on global affairs, thru BRICS and other forums.

You could say Hitler was a tool used by TPTB in a earlier era...??


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Israel shells southern Lebanon after rocket attack

new Sunday 24th August 2014 at 11:27 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/get-attachment-379-587x374.jpg


‘The Israeli regime has shelled southern Lebanon following rocket fire from
the country into northern parts of occupied Palestinian territories.

On Saturday, the regime fired artillery shells into southern Lebanon after
rockets were launched against the northern city of Akko, slightly hurting
two children.

The rocket was reportedly fired from the Christian-populated village of
Alma in the Zgharta District and hit a building in eastern Akko.’

Read more: Israel shells southern Lebanon after rocket attack

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/24/376366/israel-shells-southern-lebanon/

==================================================



Israeli air strikes level 12-floor apartment block in Gaza after giving
residents just ten minutes’ warning to get out

new Sunday 24th August 2014 at 11:19 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/1408864774808_wps_2_This_combination_of_4_pic.jpg


‘Israeli airstrikes levelled a 12-floor apartment block in Gaza City, injuring
at least 18 people including four children, after residents were reportedly
given just ten minutes’ warning to get out.

The tower block, containing 44 flats, collapsed in a cloud of fire and smoke
after it was hit by at least two missiles, and was followed just hours later by
the bombing of a seven-storey office building as well as a shopping centre in
the southern town of Rafah early this morning.

The latest strikes have signalled a new escalation in seven weeks of fighting,
with the targeting of large buildings apparently a new military tactic by Israel.’

Read more: Israeli air strikes level 12-floor apartment block in Gaza after
giving residents just ten minutes' warning to get out

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2732993/Israeli-air-strikes-level-12-floor-apartment-block-Gaza-giving-residents-just-ten-minutes-warning-out.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Israeli F-16 Missile Attacks Venezuelan Humanitarian Aid Mission in Gaza

new Sunday 24th August 2014 at 11:18 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/get-attachment-2741-587x391.jpg


‘Venezuelan ambassador to Egypt, Juan Antonio Hernandez, said Wednesday
that an Israeli aircraft attacked the Venezuelan humanitarian delegation in
Rafah along the border post between Egypt and Palestine. The delegation was
delivering twelve tons of aid to the Palestinian people. No one was injured
during the attack.

The F-16 airplane dropped a missile very close to the humanitarian site, though
it did not explode. The ambassador confirmed that the missile fell approximately
50 to 70 meters from the site.’

Read more: Israeli F-16 Missile Attacks Venezuelan Humanitarian Aid Mission in Gaza


http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/10861


====================================================


The Goal of the ISIS Psyop is World War 3

new Sunday 24th August 2014 at 11:44 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/get-attachment-73-587x3665.jpg


‘ISIS is everywhere and America should be paralyzed with fear. ISIS is in Ferguson,
they are on Twitter, they are in Iraq and Syria, they are crossing our undefended
southern border. TheY could be carrying Ebola into the country. Stop, stop, stop!
Here is a phrase that I would like all Americans to memorize and recite often:

“ISIS is everywhere, because the CIA is everywhere”.

America is both shocked and horrified at the video posted on August 19th, on
YouTube, showing American Journalist, James Foley kneeling next to a man dressed
in black. Foley reads a message, presumably written by his captors, that his “real
killer” is America.’

Read more: The Goal of the ISIS Psyop is World War 3

http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2014/08/21/the-goal-of-the-isis-psyops-is-world-war-iii/

===================================================

White House edges closer to strikes on Syria as pressure grows on Obama to act on ISIS

new Sunday 24th August 2014 at 11:40 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/get-attachment-4531-587x330.jpg


‘In the aftermath of James Foley’s beheading, President Barack Obama is weighing
up how to increase his military campaign against ISIS as the US edges closer to
strikes in Syria.

Having already conducted limited air-strikes against ISIS positions in northern Iraq
to aid Kurdish fighters for humanitarian reasons, the White House is examining its
legal options to launch raids across the border to hit the terror groups stronghold.

Preferably Congress would pass a resolution to provide the domestic legal
justification for attacks against the Sunni Muslim group that now operates its
Islamic State that ranges nearly from Baghdad to Damascus.’

Read more: White House edges closer to strikes on Syria as pressure grows on
Obama to act on ISIS

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2732583/Obama-weighs-list-ISIS-leadership-targets-White-House-edges-closer-strikes-Syria.html

====================================================

Israel’s Democratic Party leader echoes Netanyahu’s new theme: Hamas equals ISIS

Sunday 24th August 2014 at 11:28 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/BvkqVPYCYAEfU1w-580x580.png


‘A few weeks after the Israeli prime minister accused Hamas of piling
up “telegenically-dead Palestinians for their cause,” Benjamin Netanyahu has found
a telegenically-dead victim for his propaganda purposes: James Foley, the brave
American journalist killed by ISIS in Syria. Netanyahu is using Foley’s gruesome
beheading to equate ISIS and all its horrors to… Hamas.’

Read more: Israel's Democratic Party leader echoes Netanyahu’s new theme: Hamas equals ISIS

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/democratic-netanyahus-equals.html


====================================================


We have seen this psyop very recently......


The myth of Al Qaeda

4UYEvzEzz0U

Uploaded on 19 Mar 2011


Uploaded and mirrored with approval of the author.
This documentary interrogates the notion that Osama Bin Laden single-handedly
ran the pervasive Al Qaeda terrorist network by examining its inception, its links to
Western intelligence, the double agents and fictitious characters that populate its
ranks, and the fraudulent ways the Al Qaeda myth is propagated in the controlled
corporate media. The documentary also offers ways that citizens can become
involved in helping to spread understanding about the true government-sponsored
terror paradigm.

For more information about the documentary, please visit:

http://www.alqaedadoesntexist.com

[loungelizard]

Hello Andrew



I got the same feeling after listening to Hitler speeches and just looking at both sides of the coin…

In all our discussions, you have given me no reason to believe that you look at both sides of the coin, Andrew. Have you ever watched any of the excellent videos Cidersomerset has taken the trouble to post for us, on this thread and the one we both engaged in a while ago? http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66011-The-Hitler-Speech-They--Don-t--Want-You-To-Hear..-&highlight=hitler

Have you ever even glanced at any of the millions of pages of archives, articles, documentation about the holocaust by survivors, liberators, historians? What about the transcripts of the Nuremberg trials? Or the meticulous records of the Germans? In case you haven't, this is quite a useful selection http://crln.acrl.org/content/71/2/80.full

I've listened to many speeches and read many essays by the likes of Irving, Carto, Faurisson, Zundel, Duke, Weber… I'm familiar with sites such as Codoh and IHR. I've analysed their claims and cross referenced their theories.


what agendas do you actually refer?

Everyone has an agenda - I've never trust anyone who says they don't!

I think there are some out there who hope to rehabilitate Nazism and fascism. I think there are some who wish to re-establish supremacist and/or separatist rule. I think denialism is ancient antisemitism promoted through distortions of history, and as such, must be combated. It is a rhetoric of hatred.

To see their agenda you only have to look at the fringe-group audiences for Irving et al: white supremacist rallies, Neo Nazis gatherings, Aryan Nations get togethers, Klan tea parties, black nationalist events, skinhead conventions….

As to the agenda in denialism itself: in the words of Deborah Lippstadt, the woman whom Irving chose to sue in 2000 for referring him as a holocaust denier (he lost): "...denial of the Holocaust is not really about the facts of the Holocaust, and is not benign nuttiness, but rather a new antisemitic canard which abuses history in order to demonize Jews."

As long as there are people out there who make statements such as "more women died on the back seat of Edward Kennedy's car at Chappaquiddick than ever died in a gas chamber in Auschwitz." (Irving) it's necessary to respond. They have every right to their belief system - and other people have every right to point out the errors in their assertions.


But then you raise questions about the Holocaust…and get thrown in jail…"

Raise questions? You actually think the holocaust denial is about "raising questions"?! :confused:
Scholars and professors of history worldwide are constantly 'raising questions' and many have serious disagreements about several aspects of the Holocaust (exactly when was the "final solution" decided upon, for example), but they all agree that the evidence of genocide, many in purpose-built gas chambers and carried out by the Nazis and their collaborators, is not only incontrovertible, but overwhelming.


People dont dedicate their lives to something like this topic just for a bit of cash when there is far easier ways to make money with less hassle.


And that, Andrew, is precisely my point. They dedicate so much time to this topic because it supports their belief system. They start with an idea - in this case, that the holocaust did not happen - and then go out and try desperately to find some proof - and then not pay any attention to the evidence that destroys their claims. They are ideologues, rather than people with a genuine fascination for historical events throughout all the ages.

A "bit of cash"? I agree that money is not their prime motivation, but Ernst Zundel, in 2005, earned approximately $50,000 per year in donations as well as $100,000 from sales of his materials: evidence for this was presented by the prosecution at his trial. Not too shabby.

If we deny the reality of the holocaust, then which other genocides are we then free to deny? Just because the holocaust deniers say, "Oh, it's all a fabrication", are we then going to believe the supporters of Pol Pot when they claim that 1.7 million Cambodians were not murdered? Or the government in Rwanda when they deny slaughtering a million Tutsi? What about the Armenian genocide? Darfur? And Mao? Etc. Etc. Etc.

We've spent many happy hours in this type of discussion, Andrew, and I've noticed a pattern :o. You post a video with a flourish, as if it's going to prove the undeniable truth, and then run away :bolt: I then spend a long time going through that video, and present a counter argument. You then ignore this completely and post another video. I don't want to play this game any more - but as long as you post half-baked lies, I have to refute them by choosing examples from the mountains of evidence available to the contrary.

Yes, my posts are long. Because I believe that these matters deserve commitment and comprehensive replies, and take a lot of time and care over mine. Because, to me, it's important to reply fully to people who have questions. Because, much as you would like to, you can't unravel the lies and deceit in one little soundbyte, Andrew. Lies and deceit eat away goodness in ourselves and in society as a whole.

You mention propaganda - here's one person's philosophy on that subject:

“If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” Adolf Hitler

[Cidersomerset]

Hitler the man of peace.......This is from the other thread and It
illustrates how fast things escalated when Hitler became
Chancellor / fuhrer . In just over a decade Europe and the
world was a battle ground with multi millions killed & murdered....

------------------------------------------------------------------------

What the Nazi knew very early on was the power of propaganda , and Goebbels
set up a flourishing industry. The Brown shirts para military thugs were a vital
factor used in the cities to counter act communist worker parties and later
morphed into the SS and other unsavoury unit of the Nazi military/police arm.
Himmler expanded this after a coup within the organisation itself forcing
Rohm to shoot himself. Now you either believe history as we have be taught
or you do not , and as it is usually written by the winners and their sometimes
biased views interpretation can be everything.

Poland only came into existence after WW1 and had to stave of invasion from
Soviet Russia in 1920 and was fully aware historically of the dangers of her
neighbours from the east and west, so had a large army, but it was not
as modern as Germanys who had been frantically rearming since the mid
1930's.Poland knew Germany was going to attack her sooner or later and
pointed this out as loudly as she could, without much success so tried to
negotiate with Germany. Whos 'None aggressive' policies had already
remilitarised the Rhine land , annexed Austria and the Sudatenland
part of Czechoslovakia so Poland knew she was next, especially with Danzig
and the west Prussia issue.

Territorial changes began soon after Hitler came to power, so to say Hitler
was not aggressive is a myth, even before he started the main conflict.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/higher/history/images/rhineland.gif

http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/images/Map_1_english_for_bh-edit.jpg


What did Denmark ,Norway, Holland, Luxemburg, Belgium , Yugoslavia & Greece
have to do with ethnic German disputes ??

http://www.classzone.com/cz/books/north_carolina_08/resources/images/chapter_maps/nc21_ww2europe1m.jpg


If there were atrocities against ethnic Germans in Poland pre 1939, they are
to be condemned, as well but we need more proof they existed to the extent
claimed. No doubt there were tensions leading up to the invasion particularly
in Danzig as Poland knew it was next on Hitlers eastward expansion plan
for 'Living space'.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/history/images/hist_nazi_ideology.gif


http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/history/mwh/germany/nazibeliefsrev1.shtml

[Delight]

I apologize in advance for my vehemence but as passionate as others feel about "their issues", I feel passionate about mine.....

There is one point of agreement that I share with all who feel powerless, all who feel victimized, all who have suffered, all who feel anger or despair or rage: There IS IMO a common enemy. IMO it is global human SUICIDE

However, it is not any group of human beings and in my humble opinion, it is not a "a parasite" or an alien inserting itself. It is not any other than disconnection from reality and dependence on artificial systems that have been superimposed. We have been starved of and confused about the/ \our living connection to power and capacity to think. This fracture is destroying our ability to live.

Generational holocausts do not "go away". they fester and wait to erupt again IMO. This pattern is really SUICIDE IMO of the future of humanity. Hate is perpetually stimulated and like a ping pong ball that is volleyed back and forth, passed back and forth, we see the same mechanisms and we never cooperate to deal with the truth that modern civilization (6000 years of it) is insane.

The hate we have for the perceived enemy drains us of our capacity for survival, much less THRIVING IMO. The GAME is the problem and maybe it has a purpose...to awaken from this madness???

The game creates the playing field. IMO, we who refuse to play the game are the winners.


John Trudell:
I would like to talk tonight in honor of all of us in the struggle who have lost our relations to the Spirit World. I would like to talk in honor of the wind, one of the natural elements. This is a survival gathering and one of the things I hope you all learn while you're here is ... to appreciate the energy and power that the elements are, that of the sun, the rain and the wind. I hope you go away from here understanding that this is power, the only real, true power. This is the only real, true connection we will ever have to power, our relationship to Mother Earth.

We must not become confused. We must not become confused and deceived by their illusions. There is no such thing as military power. There is only military terrorism. There is no such thing as economic power. There is only the economic within these illusions so we will believe they hold power in their hands. But they do not. All they know how to do is act in a repressive, brutal way.

The power. We are a natural part of the earth. We are an extension of the earth; we are not separate from it. We are part of it. The earth is our mother. The earth is a spirit, and we are an extension of that spirit. We are spirit. We are power. They want us to believe that we have to believe in them, that we have to assume these consumer identities and these political identities, these religious identities and these racial identities. They want to separate us from our power. They want to separate us from who we are.

Genocide.

Genocide is just an intellectual way of saying murder because we live in a so-called "civilized," industrialized world. And because this world is allegedly civilized and allegedly has laws, they can't go out and call an act of murder, murder any more. They call it genocide to throw another illusion in our eyes. And they have limited our ability to see the necessity for our survival because they want us to believe that genocide just means physical extinction.

We must consider the spiritual genocide that they commit against us: the spiritual genocide that white people have been victimized for thousands of years, the spiritual genocide that told them not to respect the earth—the spiritual genocide that told them not to respect the life that is the earth—but to pay all their tribute through the churches to god and heaven, that heaven would take care of them in the afterlife. They tried to take and suppress our natural identity, our natural spiritual connection to the earth.

We must move to the time when we truly understand our connection to real power because these people who deal with illusions and imitations, these men who have attempted to "improve upon" nature, they want to keep us confused. They want to keep us confused with sexism and agism, racism and class. They want to keep us in confusion so that we will continue to believe in one lie after another as they program them into our minds and into our society. We Are Power (http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/trudellwearepower.html)

For the record...the focus on denial that the poster children were not participants within abusive and hateful regimes is the distraction today.

"The man who has moved away from nature? His heart becomes hard"

The earth IMO is not at risk but we are at risk. The industrial machine world regimes use the same strategies to coerce people to excuse and even to participate in this human SUICIDE.

VfvAqCHpXgA

John Trudell
The Realms
In energy of the realms



the energy of emotion put into

the energy of fear put into

the energy of believe put into

the energy of distort put into

the energy of hope put into

the energy of reaction put into

the energy of energy put into

the energy of illusion put into

the illusion of change put into

the illusion of familiar put into

the illusion of revolution put into

the illusion of progress put into

the energy of dying put into

the energy of death put into

the energy of de-energizing



of parallels

parallels of



the energy of feeling put into

the energy of clarity put into

the energy of think put into

the energy of coherent put into

the energy of prayer put into

the energy of action put into

the energy of energy put into

the energy of reality put into

the reality of energy put into

the reality of creativity put into

the reality of evolution put into

the reality of change put into

the energy of life put into

the energy of living put into

the energy of re-energizing



In the realms of energy

[Cidersomerset]

http://www.independent.co.uk/independent.co.uk/assets/images/redesign/masthead/indy-masthead-small.png


Holocaust survivors and their descendants accuse Israel of ‘genocide’


http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article9682664.ece/alternates/w620/Palestinev8.jpg

More than 300 Holocaust survivors and their descendants have condemned
what they described as Israel’s 'genocide of Palestinian people' in an advert
in the New York Times


Zachary Davies Boren
Sunday 24 August 2014



Dozens of Holocaust survivors, together with hundreds of descendants of
Holocaust survivors and victims, have accused Israel of “genocide” for the
deaths of more than 2,000 Palestinians in Gaza since the conflict erupted in July.

In an open letter released by the International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network
and published as an advert in The New York Times, the group calls for a
full economic, cultural and academic boycott of Israel over its “wholesale
effort to destroy Gaza”.

“Genocide begins with the silence of the world,” the statement reads, “We must
raise our collective voices and use our collective power to bring about an end to
all forms of racism, including the ongoing genocide of Palestinian people.”

The statement also condemns the United States for its financial and diplomatic
support of Israel.

The signatories express alarm at “the extreme, racist dehumanization of Palestinians
in Israeli society, which has reached a fever pitch.”

This condemnation was designed as a response to a widely-published advertisement
from Nobel prize-winning author Elie Wiesel that condemned Hamas for its “use of
children as human shields”.

The statement reads: “We are disgusted and outraged by Elie Wiesel’s abuse of our
history […] to justify the unjustifiable.”

Of the 327 signatories, 40 survived the Holocaust and the other 287 are descendants
of Holocaust survivors or victims.

Recent today reports refer to the destruction of an high rise office building in the
southern town of Rafah, and the bombing of an apartment building in Gaza City
amid attempts from the Egyptian government to establish a durable ceasefire.

More than 2,100 Palestinians, including 500 children have been killed in the conflict,
according to Palestinian health officials and UN figures. Israel has lost 64 soldiers
and four civilians.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/holocaust-survivors-and-their-descendants-accuse-israel-of-genocide-9687994.html

[Cidersomerset]

Thanks Delight.....

VfvAqCHpXgA

Excellent video of a sad storey of centuries of continuous abuse of the indigenous
North American peoples, the same happened all over the world in the 'Age of
Empire' Australia,Asia,South America and Africa , it happened in Europe as well
slightly earlier. But it is still happening to groups all over the world as I type.

There are some threads about the native American genocide/holocaust which I
could not find with a quick search. There is one started by White feather about
native musical culture.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51462-The-Native-American-Indian-Music-Thread


====================================================
====================================================

This article is on Davids site today and is appropriate to your vid and this thread...



http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Untitled2-587x469.jpg




American Terror Lives On

D.Icke.com



http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Modern-slavery.png


American Terror Lives On

Sunday, 24 August 2014 13:01
By Margaret Kimberley, Black Agenda Report | Op-Ed

Can America ever overcome its terrible history of conquest, genocide and
enslavement? Those horrors are deeply embedded in the American psyche and
legal system, and allow for repeated aggressions at home and abroad. This
columnist was reminded of the roots of this never ending terror during a recent trip
to Alabama.

Every region of the United States shares in the history of displacement and murder
of indigenous peoples. Alabama differs from New England only in that Indians there
were brutally attacked and forcibly removed 200 years after the interlopers called
pilgrims committed their crimes. In the early 1800s white settlers from the
Carolinas and Georgia happily suffered from what was called “Alabama fever.” They
knew that the lands recently wrested from the Creek, Choctaw and Cherokee would
be theirs for the taking.

Alabama was called the Cotton State with good reason. It owes its very existence
to the global demand for cotton, the theft of Indian land and the domestic trade in
enslaved people. At the start of the Civil War nearly half of the population was
comprised of enslaved people. The wealth generated by king cotton made
Montgomery one of the largest slave trading cities in the South, as rivers and rails
were used to bring the product and the people who produced it to pens and auction
blocks on Market Street, later re-named Dexter Avenue.

The damage done didn’t stay in South and it wasn’t frozen in time. The legacy can
only be left behind if white Americans commit themselves to deep introspection and
a pledge to leave supremacy behind. That is a tall order for a country which claims
to be exceptionally virtuous yet also makes every effort to maintain the racial
status quo.

The slave patrols that prevented escape and freedom are still present in the 21st
century. The extra judicial killings of Eric Garner in New York City, Michael Brown in
Ferguson, Missouri, and John Crawford in Beavercreek, Ohio, are but three of the
most recent. The brutal beating of Marlene Pinnock by a California highway patrol
officer wreaked of this awful legacy, when a white policeman had complete
confidence that he could punch a black woman in the face at least ten times and rip
off her clothes in broad daylight while hundreds of potential witnesses drove by. If
that isn’t a legacy of the slave system, nothing else is.

The open carry of firearms and stand your ground legislation are but the latest
symptoms of an old illness. The disease is called white supremacy and there has
never been a serious desire by the controlling race to be free of it. It is frankly
ridiculousness to ask why black people are victimized by extra judicial killings, high
rates of incarceration and anything else which keeps them at the bottom of the
social, political and economic totem pole.

In the absence of any desire to leave the past behind, police brutality is inevitable.
The history of black people in America is like a horror movie with many sequels.
Enslavement ended only to be replaced by a convict labor system and lynch law
terrorism. The brief American spring of the civil rights mass movement was quickly
followed by mass incarceration which is fed by the extreme police surveillance of
black communities. Eric Garner broke up a fight on a New York City street and
ended up dead in a police choke hold. John Crawford was holding a toy gun in a
Walmart when he was shot down. Michael Brown was stopped by a police officer in
Ferguson, Missouri, because he walked in the street instead of on the sidewalk.
Their deaths should go under the category “things that happen only to black
people.”

While Americans ponder whether or not Germans feel guilt because of Adolf Hitler’s
atrocities they ought to ask the same of themselves. How do white people in the
21st century benefit from the crimes of the past and what will they do as
individuals to give up the entitlements they have long held? There are too few
people willing to contemplate these questions. Instead they see the protest unfold
in Ferguson, Missouri, and conclude that it has nothing to do with them. All the
while they support stop and frisk and any other avenue which allows for the literal
and very physical control of black people.

Wearing hoodies for Trayvon Martin or shouting, “Hands up, don’t shoot,” in
memory of Michael Brown may galvanize popular anger but they aren’t substitutes
for revolutionary change. That is the only way to undo centuries of injustice.
Anything else is piecemeal and doomed to fail. The continuing protest in Ferguson,
Missouri, shows that thousands of people are prepared to do something radically
different. The question is whether they will again be disappointed or whether they
will be joined by others in a much larger struggle.
This piece was reprinted by Truthout with permission or license. It may not be
reproduced in any form without permission or license from the source.


http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/25771-american-terror-lives-on

[giovonni]

i just got done watching another stark horror reminder of this period of time ... :(

Hitler's GI Death Camp
About the Nazi Concentration Camp of Stalag 9B at Berga (http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/explorer/articles/facts-hitlers-gi-death-camp/)

A documentary 'Hitler's GI Death Camp' on this hell hole place is available on Netflix

[Cidersomerset]

i just got done watching another stark horror reminder of this period of time ...

Hitler's GI Death Camp
About the Nazi Concentration Camp of Stalag 9B at Berga

A documentary 'Hitler's GI Death Camp' on this hell hole place is available on Netflix



Ra1LlD5aULQ

[giovonni]

will share this here ...

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio3fourteen/2014/R314-140903_player.jpg

Radio 3Fourteen

Carolyn Yeager - WWII Revisionist History
September 3, 2014



Carolyn Yeager is a writer and researcher specializing in World War II and "holocaust" revisionism. She’s the author of a 48-page booklet titled Auschwitz: The Underground Guided Tour, What the Tour Guides Don’t Tell You at Auschwitz-Birkenau. She hosts a radio program and writes numerous articles, which are available on her website. We’ll hear Carolyn’s journey to holocaust revisionism. Having German heritage herself, she’ll speak about her awakening into the truth surrounding WWII. We’ll talk about the atrocities committed by the allies during WWII and claims made surrounding the holocaust, verses what holocaust revisionists claim. We’ll talk about why holocaust revisionism is important and necessary. She’ll also speak about holocaust survivor stories verses war propaganda. We’ll talk about why America harbored such hatred for Germany. Carolyn discusses literature in Nazi Germany, eugenics and the Nazi economic model. Later, she comments on claims made by alt researchers about Hitler. Many are not interested in the truth on this subject. In challenging the holocaust story, we are forced to contend with the entire postwar order, which was created by the allies. The holocaust is their moral cornerstone still used today to justify nefarious behavior. Questioning the victor’s version of the war has landed some in jail. At the end, she discusses infighting among White folk and she questions if unification is possible. We’ll also speak about the predictability of the misinformed that pull the Nazi card on Europeans seeking to preserve their heritage.

:ear: Listen here (http://www.redicecreations.com/radio3fourteen/2014/R314-140903.php)

[loungelizard]

Hello Giovonni

I don't have time to listen to a 1hr 22min interview at the moment - I'm off to work - but I'm familiar with the work of Caroline Yeager, having read her pamphlet The Underground Guided Tour: What the Tour Guides Don’t Tell You at Auschwitz-Birkenau

(here's a link to it http://archive.org/stream/CarolynYeager-hiddenAuschwitz-theUndergroundGuidedTour/CarolynYeager-hiddenAuschwitz-theUndergroundGuidedTour_djvu.txt)

And the reason the guides don't tell you this stuff is quite simply because it's not true :rolleyes:
This pamphlet was exactly what you'd expect from a person who was the Texas state leader of neo-Nazi ANSWP (American National Socialist Workers party) which has connections with the National Socialist Movement - the main neo-Nazi group in the US. She is much adored by the white supremacist and WW2 revisionist community.

In this she claims that Auchwitz was a happy place of “reform, re-education and rehabilitation” where people only died of natural causes, and everyone lived happily in luxurious conditions with flower beds and tree lined boulevards, flushing toilets, a caring health care system, and a "flourishing cultural life".

All this despite the fact that, in his autobiography, the Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Hoess, described how Himmler "gave me the order to prepare installations at Auschwitz where mass exterminations could take place,” and then detailed the entire process, including gassings that he himself witnessed.

All that despite the accounts of thousands of victims, perpetrators, camp liberators and Nazi officials - including Auschwitz’s most infamous commandant - were these all lies and propaganda?

That said, could you please summarise for us what you consider to be her most salient points in this interview? I'd be interested to know whether she's still beating the same hate-filled, neo Nazi drum ;)

[giovonni]

Dude ...

Note i just shared the interview ... Though i don't appreciate your insinuating sarcastic tone towards me because i did ... Perhaps it is best we let it go at that.

[loungelizard]

Dude ...

Note i just shared the interview ... Though i don't appreciate your insinuating sarcastic tone towards me because i did ... Perhaps it is best we let it go at that.

Giovonni - I'm sorry you interpreted my post as being sarcastic towards you. It wasn't intended that way at all: I'm aware that my tone can be a little…abrasive sometimes :o but it's certainly not meant to be personal. I apologise if it came across like that. You have every right to share whatever you choose on your thread: I'm only interested in commenting on the facts of the situation.

I'm interested in what Carolyn has to say these days, but I also think it's important to know something of her background. That's all.

[Delight]

If this post ends looking inappropriate, please have mods remove:

I am not a historian or expert but I read and have read reams of information. Reading develops the ability to see patterns when you begin looking at common themes.

Looking at current collective trends and looking at RedIce as an example of the zeitgeist, the recent emphasis is on the threat of the stranger to destabilize the "civilized". It is being played by politics and by religion AND MORE by sheer superstitions based on race and sex.

Where are the trustworthy panels who can confront the twisted up mythologies???? The internet can make lies much larger and more believable. We accuse mainstream but we are seeing similar shills for a stinky CAUSE On PLACES LIKE Redice IMO. No one seems to be asking deep questions and in an hour how can they?? I desire a source to stand as clear referee.

In the collective, something has been looking more and more reactionary. In the not main stream media emphasis, one is seeing what looks to me like increasing backlash against people couched in terms that looks like spiritualISM, racISM, classISM, religionISM and misogyny (I think I know what feminism is and it is not what is being purported by haters).

Even in this exchanged disagreement between Gio and Loungelizard, something is generating a HOT flash. Gio senses directed "sarcasm" (which was NOT what I read but what GIo felt). WHY??? How is it that sides are being drawn up in our midst? To justify the wrong a group has done by the wrong the other group has done does not make either wrong right and will we be stuck between non arguments?

I agree that present Israel should not be funded. If all this is to try to disentangle the idea of reparations...that is one thing. I do not believe this "forgiveness" is the purpose of what "Holocaust revision" and revisionists in general is about.

This recursive divisionist strategy is FEUDAL and it is FUTILE.
"feu·dal·ism
noun \ˈfyü-də-ˌli-zəm\: a social system that existed in Europe during the Middle Ages in which people worked and fought for nobles who gave them protection and the use of land in return".

In my reading, the "jewish people" were made to be the buffer zone working FOR the "kings" and always the hatred was directed at the middle man as the taxman. The trap that people are given making them to "work" for the ever FEUDAL system is what is hurting humans and the latest is seeing how hate is directed at police who are the new middle man. This is just one example.

Are we just bound to repeat the same reverberating texts one can read from the annals of historic time? I feel so sad because people have been hurt and right now somewhere, a little child is learning from an older "child" that what makes us TOO DIFFERENT to ever get along has to do with the enemy created to support feudal mind set.

IMO IMO IMO alert.
If we look at every context, hate divides and is the with-holding of the energy we generate that is starving us. The FEUDAL LORDS play our sympathies and we keep the FUTILE going generation after generation. I see the wedge of fearful defensive identities projected onto racial sexual and and cultural screens. Used AGAIN and AGAIN to create interpersonal blame and suspicion we create.

So, if I could talk to Henrik Palmgren directly, I would request that he ask CHALLENGING questions to those who appear on his show based on their reputations and see what they say when confronted strongly.

[giovonni]

i'm still wondering if either of you (or both) have even listened to the interview yet ...

Maggie with all due respect, who are you to tell me when and how i should take an offense.

Note Henrik did not conduct the interview, Lana did ... And she is a friend of mind, and i respect her work.

Blessings Gio

[Delight]

i'm still wondering if either of you (or both) have even listened to the interview yet ...

Maggie with all due respect, who are you to tell me when and how i should take an offense.

Note Henrik did not conduct the interview, Lana did ... And she is a friend of mind, and i respect her work.

Blessings Gio

Sorry to make it seem I was suggesting anything except I saw what looked like a hot flash and I see the hot flashes like summer lightening all over the discussion boards of current events. Did you know I have only ever met you face to face of people on PA. I don't know you are a freind but you are valued deeply as a person. Friends IMo are people to have dinner and talk, forums mean IMO sharing info.

No, I did not listen as I know of Carolyn Yeager and I do not understand the line of thought she holds on being a human on the new earth that I seek.

I am female and I am considered white. Both these categories hold considerations for her I do not value:


Another concern today’s women have is their freedom to make personal choices and set their own direction in life. Women want the same freedom that they believe men have enjoyed throughout most of history. But there are consequences to this type of equality of men and women.

The modern right to work means the burden of supporting oneself. Control over one’s own body may mean the “right” of abortion, but it also means the right of either party to dissolve a marriage because they are unhappy, and the resulting constant legal battles to demand payment from the economically stronger partner, as well as misery for the children who are often shuttled between homes.

In contrast to this, National Socialism encourages a more traditional role for women, allowing them to remain at home as wives and mothers. In no way, however, do women have less legal rights than men. Both men and women have duties and responsibilities; the difference is they have those that are appropriate for their gender.

Speaking at the opening of a women’s exhibition in Berlin in 1933, Dr. Joseph Goebbels assured the women it would be “crazy” to think of driving them from public life, professions, work and bread winning, but there were two areas that must remain for men alone: politics and the military.

National Socialism is not blind, and recognizes that women are creative, intelligent, capable contributors to the common good, and individual talents should be recognized and utilized, especially of those who cannot bear children or who are past child-bearing age.

For women concerned with the quality of personal relationship, Goebbels got to the heart of the matter when he said: “Looking back over the past years of Germany’s decline, we come to the frightening, nearly terrifying, conclusion that the less German men were willing to act as men in public life, the more women succumbed to the temptation to fill the role of the man. The feminization of men always leads to the masculinization of women.”

When we look around at our society today, with growing numbers of ever bolder gays and lesbians, we see this unnatural lifestyle Goebbels describes modeled for our schoolchildren as normal and natural. We see our women serving in the military and police and fire departments; we see our men becoming nurses and child-care workers. Rather than resist this trend, too many of us try to accommodate it.Women and National Socialism (http://carolynyeager.net/women-and-national-socialism)

[giovonni]

Did you know I have only ever met you face to face of people on PA. I don't know you are a freind but you are valued deeply as a person.

Do not know what to make of this statement, but if you ever had met me in person ...

Why now acknowledge here ?


Friends IMo are people to have dinner and talk, forums mean IMO sharing info.

Totally agree, i can always count on mine.

[Delight]

"Lana is a friend of mind, and I respect her work" is a common declaration in making an argument about people and not information. So what if lana is beguiled by her own fears and concerns about the way that her society looks to her? What if she has been interviewing an agenda intended person holding a distorted "world view"? Who is "out there" questioning this platform?

Friendship is a platform that can lead astray and why I think forums are about information itself. Deep questioning of all speakers includes where it intends to lead. Looking at the "hot flash" phenomenon of reaction to what looked like simple information challenging the Interviewee is what I brought up.

You brought "friend" up about Lana. I used my own statement that I was neither being friendly or unfriendly even though I actually met you personally about your response.

How committed are we about aligning with the "tribe" ? Tribes and feudalism connect and is IMO a diversion from understanding what underlies the tip of an iceberg about the helpfulness of information. Many spokespeople (in cluding REDICE) present particular information and IMO is not objective.

If we "like Henrik and Lana" this can lead to defending what they seem to be doing with their platform? It distorts value perhaps? It is a social construct to defend friends over enemies which is exactly the kind of black and white polarizing of "us and them" that feudal mind set creates IMO.

Based on "a friend cannot be criticized (because that is unfriendly or undermines the relationship?) so I will not disagree.

The type red herring that "my friends think this is true" is irrelevant is leading no where. To assert the existence of the rightness of what our friends think is "facebook truth". One's own freedom to participate in the process of arguing the value becomes "how many likes" can be garnered.

Given that I have passion on the feudal persuasions based on the eternal ISMness of categories and clans( ones I would prefer never to live within), I object to certain information I have learned and the sources that promote ideas.

This is my idea: FROM the LORDS who will have us fight each other as tribes so we never question the right of rule come the revivals of all feuds reactivated. I try to state what I think on this forum thread about what I think is important. But I try to quote other sources too. I'd like you or anyone to argue the ideas. People tend to say nothing so I am not sure about feedback.

[giovonni]

Ms delight ...

Obviously you and i are not from the same tribe ... And so be it.

PS ~ i think i have made myself clear on my post on this thread where i stand on this issue. But i will in response to your last post in saying, that i neither agree with Ms Yeager's views or Yours regarding this subject matter.

Note anyone who knows me as a friend ... Knows i don't do "argue" ... :)

[Cidersomerset]

High Giovanni I have no problem with Holocaust revision, but I have two major
problems with the interview at the start the host runs through some of the death
scenarios.She missed out one of the major causes shooting which killed millions
and it wasthe catalyst whether true or myth that it was costing two much in
ammunition and was time consuming and getting harder to hide and was not good
for the ordinary infantryman to witness. The SS and local units beat and shot and
hung most of the victims. Which led the Reinhard Heydrich final solution..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Heydrich

The second was the remark that most victims in the camps died of typhus and
this does not count as a holocaust , and that they were dirty and did not want
to change their clothes. It came over more callous than she meant , but the
medical experiments and brutality, lack of food, medicines and sanitary conditions,
loss of freedom, human rights and overcrowding certainly did not conform to
the Red Cross or Geneva convention as military prisoners also ended up in the camps.

She also made remarks about blacks being experimented on, admittedly this was in
the US and I have just posted about that on another thread.

I agree calling Hitler the devil is stupid , he was man of his time and if he did not
rebuild the country by re arming, things may have been different. Hitler found his
calling serving in WW1 and he was a man of the people, and wanted to rebuild the
shattered German economy by the people under the discipline of ' Ein Volk, Ein
Reich, Ein Fuhrer..starting with the Hitler Youth, thru society for the 1000 year Reich..

The horrific bombing of Dresden , Hamburg and other German cities are well known
and were in retaliation for Coventry, London. Bath Birmingham ,Bristol ,
Manchester and many other cities. The V1 and V2 were the first 'terror weapons'
and might have done more damage if used differently , like firing at the DD ports
instead of trying to frighten London.

There were millions of Germans brutalised throughout the period by the Nazi's ,
western allies and particularly Russia where the Geneva convention did not exist.

I could go on but I'd be repeating previous posts. Basically she is debating whether
and how many camp victims were gassed. Or it is all a jewish hoax.

The story always grows with the telling so not all the Holocaust stories may
be genuine. But there are far to many of them to be a hoax imo.

Anyway it takes two sides to make a discussion. There is a good point at the end
when it is important to look at all history and you will find history is always
repeating itself and we are heading into another NWO if we are not careful .

[Cidersomerset]

I just started watching a vid about the discovery of the body of Richard 111. In the
intro they mention the quote by Francis Bacon below and I thought it very
appropriate to the interview & my post above.

It reminded me that as I enjoy history I probably have read/watched more than the
average person on historical events. It does not mean I'm right and should be
tolerant of those with opposing views or just coming into these subjects,

There are many subjects I'm not that well up on so we should keep our remarks civil,,,,

Cheers Steve....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It also seems funny the fuss over one individual skeleton, and cause of death.
when we are discussing the causes of death of millions on this thread.Its
a strange world .......

After they describe the nature of the wounds and circumstances of death.
They go onto talk about the 'Tudor Propaganda ' about Richard the 111 being
a hunchback and an evil king......

As I say history repeats itself and the victor will ridicule the defeated, so
don't take everything about Hitler as gospel. But there is still a lot unpleasant
about how The Third Reich panned out.....We are also seeing it in the Ukraine and
Israel today and other places.

http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-truth-is-the-daughter-of-time-not-of-authority-francis-bacon-9715.jpg

Richard III - The Scientific Outcome

91R-LkW2x3s

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?74618-Myths-and-Legends......Search-for-King-Harolds-Body...Did-he-survive-and-die-30-years-later

[Cidersomerset]

Abuse of populations and prisoners has always gone on, from the sack of ancient
cites when whole populations were put to the sword, and there have been many
holocausts , massacres , ethnic cleansings and worse through out history.

Then we have ISIS using the web in the old shock propaganda meme. Another vid I
watched a couple of days ago was about William Wallace , and he was Hung ,
drawn and quartered and his body parts distributed to parts of Scotland as a
deterrent to rebellion. These type of things happened again & again all thru
recorded history, so beheading vids though shocking is relatively humane.

The reason for this post is I just saw this article on Davids site and it just proves
how some human beings become conditioned to hurt other humans and enjoy it !!!!!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Up to 2,100 Photos of US Soldiers Abusing Prisoners May Soon Be Released

new Sunday 7th September 2014 at 10:01 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/01.jpg


‘Would the release of 10-year-old detainee abuse photographs, such as one
depicting US soldiers pointing a broom handle at a hooded detainee’s rectum,
incite terrorist organizations and threaten national security?

That’s a question government attorneys will have to answer next week
when they explain to a federal court judge why as many as 2,100
unclassified photos of US soldiers abusing Iraqi and Afghan captives
should continue to be concealed from the public.’

Read more: Up to 2,100 Photos of US Soldiers Abusing Prisoners
May Soon Be Released

https://news.vice.com/article/up-to-2100-photos-of-us-soldiers-abusing-prisoners-may-soon-be-released

====================================================
D.Icke.com 7 Sept 2014

Lebanons army to probe ISIL beheading photos

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/377916_ISIL-atrocities.jpg

Short vid on link.....http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/09/06/377916/lebanese-to-probe-isil-beheading-photos/

[loungelizard]

Hello again Giovonni ;)

As you requested, and out of respect for you, I listened to the interview with Carolyn Yeager, and would like to feed back my response to the particulars she presented in it (warning - monster post :o because these things need to be looked at closely). This is only my opinion, based on my study of and interest in this particular area of history. There is no intention to attack Carolyn Yeager (or anyone else) but merely to examine her argument.

Although I personally find Yeager's ideology repulsive, as a sincere, open-minded student of history, I have to be aware of the work of people with whom I disagree.

Firstly, I do have to say that I have a problem with the title "historical revisionist" that CY and others have applied to herself. "Orthodox" and "Mainstream" history is being revised constantly and therefore all historians could be termed "revisionists". I prefer the term "denialist" to describe people such as CY.

I've just had a thought...Giovonni, did you think that I was being aggressive by calling her a neo Nazi in the post you took object to? It was merely a fact: she refers to herself as such.

As an overall view, I would say that Carolyn Yeager's presentation was vague and confused: she was constantly struggling to explain her jumbled thoughts and didn't offer any sources, evidence other than anecdotal (which is often unreliable or even fictitious), or corroborating material.

23.10 CY calls into question the fact that 6 million Jews were murdered.

16 miles of shelving containing 50 million pieces of Nazi documentation detailing, among other things, the deliberate extermination of Jews, Roma, the mentally ill, Poles etc etc housed at Bad Arolsen proves CY wrong. https://www.its-arolsen.org/en/archives/searchable-archival-holdings/index.html

23.42 CY implies that the use of coded language by the Nazis to avoid mentioning the Final Solution is a lie.

She doesn't explain what such terms, found regularly in Nazi documentation, mean: "Final Solution", "Liquidated" "Finished Off" "Special Treatment" "Cleansing" "Elimination" "Resettlement" "Treated Appropriately" and "Made Free of Jews".
I assume she's never read the minutes of the Wannsee conferences where the Nazi elite agreed upon the implementation of the "Final Solution".

She doesn't mention that, although the Nazis recognised the need for utmost secrecy in their dealing with The Jewish Problem, there is plenty of documentation where euphemistic code words were not used - Karl Jagers diary for example, or several speeches by Himmler which refer openly to the extermination of the Jews.

23.51 CY makes the claim that gas chambers at Auschwitz has been debunked, although she didn't give details by whom and where.


The evidence proving the existence of gas chambers at Auschwitz is utterly introvertable.
Was the commandant of Auschwitz, Rudolf Hoss, was lying both in his autobiography and under oat when he wrote:

"I commanded Auschwitz until 1 December 1943, and estimate that at least 2,500,000 victims were executed and exterminated there by gassing and burning, and at least another half million succumbed to starvation and disease, making a total dead of about 3,000,000. This figure represents about 70% or 80% of all persons sent to Auschwitz as prisoners, the remainder having been selected and used for slave labor in the concentration camp industries. Included among the executed and burnt were approximately 20,000 Russian prisoners of war (previously screened out of Prisoner of War cages by the Gestapo) who were delivered at Auschwitz in Wehrmacht transports operated by regular Wehrmacht officers and men. The remainder of the total number of victims included about 100,000 German Jews, and great numbers of citizens (mostly Jewish) from Holland, France, Belgium, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Greece, or other countries. We executed about 400,000 Hungarian Jews alone at Auschwitz in the summer of 1944.

"Still another improvement we made over Treblinka was that at Treblinka the victims almost always knew that they were to be exterminated and at Auschwitz we endeavoured to fool the victims into thinking that they were to go through a delousing process. Of course, frequently they realised our true intentions and we sometimes had riots and difficulties due to that fact. Very frequently women would hide their children under the clothes but of course when we found them we would send the children in to be exterminated."

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1946Hoess.html

Höss went on to describe how 10,000 people were exterminated in one 24-hour period:
“
"Technically [it] wasn't so hard—it would not have been hard to exterminate even greater numbers.... The killing itself took the least time. You could dispose of 2,000 head in half an hour, but it was the burning that took all the time. The killing was easy; you didn't even need guards to drive them into the chambers; they just went in expecting to take showers and, instead of water, we turned on poison gas. The whole thing went very quickly."

24.46 CY claims that "the whole holocaust was about Auschwitz and when Auschwitz goes, the whole thing goes".

I don't know how to put into words how ridiculous this statement is so I'll leave it.

26.48 CY and the interviewer both laugh when they make the claim that all the deaths were due merely to a typhus outbreak.

There was an outbreak of typhus in August 1942. For a detailed breakdown of the figures, based on Nazi records http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/ As to how that one outbreak caused over a million deaths over a 5 year period, they don't explain.

28.18 CY presents her version of the holocaust in a nutshell: it's a fantasy. Mass hysteria and rumour.

Again, I can't summon up the energy to react to that vile claim. :eek:

28.26 CY claims that the Germans were "too nice to the Poles working there" and that the Poles are responsible for all sorts of rumours and lies about Auschwitz.

Wow.

29.20 CY and the interviewer agree that the media and the Allies played up these rumours and fantasies to make then appear real and solid, as a form of propaganda.
Have they ever heard of the appeasement of Hitler? Are they aware that the existence of concentration camps was known by most of the European governments long before the beginning of the WW2. It was known that the inmates in the camps were beaten, tortured and shot. Hundreds of political refugees tried to warn the governments about these camps and ask them to do something. None reacted because they refused to believe this information.

Far from "playing them up", no one believed the stories - unfortunately. And millions died as a result.

30.17 CY states that the Jews and the Allies determined never to let Germany be rehabilitated.

I have no idea how two Americans can make that judgement. As a European, I can state that it's untrue.

30.28 The interviewer asks why the Allies hated Germany before WW2.

Did they? No: that question is disingenuous and shows a remarkable lack of understanding - and bias. WW2 was not the result of petty squabbles and jealousies that resulted in the Allies trying to destroy Germany, as CY claims. It brought about primarily by Hitler's wish for the expansion of Germany, as stated by him in Mein Kampf.

36.13 The interviewer referes to "Leftists" who want to "Justify the destruction of any Europeans who stand up for their culture and nation"
Can someone please explain what she means?

38.18 CY "…and the they scream - "Nazi!" - as if it's a bad thing…" :p !!

38.01 A summation of the glories of National Socialism according to CY,

38.10 CY points out that the Nazis banned animal experimentation.
Shame they didn't show the same scruples about experimentation on humans.

38.56 CY describes how wonderful the literature of national Socialism is.
Most people would recognise it for the brainwashing propaganda it was. Read for yourself: http://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/

40.38 CY sums up the values of the Education of Youth in the Nazi Party as "Sound racial teaching".
Can someone please explain to me how any teaching based on racial inequality can be sound?

41.36 CY moves on to the eugenics programme of the Nazi party: "No one could argue with it. So Sound. So Sensible".
To approve of the Nazi parties aim of racial hygiene by the Action T4 programme - named "Gnadentod", which translates to 'mercy death' - is to approve of:

70,273 people being killed at various extermination centres at psychiatric hospitals in Germany and Austria
the development of the use of lethal gas to effect large scale murder
the eugenic sterilisation of people with schizophrenia
compulsory sterilisation of people with hereditry illnesses
the killing of newborns identified as defective - by 1941, more than 5,000 children had been killed
the murder of the mentally ill

etc

58.37 CY claims she wasn't taught anything about the "real" history of WW2 at school because the Jews are in control of education and the media.

59.27 Both CY and the interviewer laugh repeatedly when discussing the wonderful facilities available for the benefit of the inmates at Auschwitz
So the presence of a swimming pool - which was for the use of guards, kapos and a few privileged prisoners - somehow proves that Auschwitz was a holiday camp. In the real world, over a million million people were murdered there, swimming pool or no swimming pool.

Carolyn Yeager then rejoices that "Hitler will be a mythological hero some years from now"...:rolleyes:

At this point, I stopped listening as the statements became increasingly ludicrous.

Giovonni - I'd be interested to hear your impressions of the interview.

[giovonni]

Why you and others feel the need to try and prompt me into expressing myself in a kind of way tickles my senses ... Note an old Avalon friend once asked me why i did not engage and express myself more often here ... My simple response to her then and to you now is that my opinion doesn't really matter much in the broader scheme of things ... Ever since i underwent a life changing by-pass surgery over twenty years ago ... i have become simply not that attached to the emotions of these kinds of horrific past events.

And i have frankly found that just compiling volumes of text (here) could not ever adequately address the fluidness of my ever changing/evolving thoughts ... For it is the real reason why i feel so induced in posting (so often and broadly) on many topics. It is my way of sharing the inquisitive nature of myself with others who are also compelled to visit this forum.

And since you asked in a civil manor ... ;)

In regards to Carolyn Yeager and Lana Lokteff (who as a friend i might not always agree with but still admire her work) ...

Perhaps they are just trying to find (justify) some comforting explanation and answers to some very disturbing past and ongoing humanistic behaviors ... In (my opinion) which there might be some (ancestral) connections they're not to proud or comfortable with ... But in any case my understanding (since the aftermath of my near death/by-pass experience) is that we (everyone) personally choose in creating those realities in which we participate in while here on this plane.

That's all for me on this topic and thread.

[jackovesk]

Since the mid-20th century, the world has only ever heard one side of an incredible story. The story of a boy from an ordinary family whose ambition it was to become an artist, but who instead became a drifter.

His destiny however was not to drift into the awaiting oblivion, but to rise to the greatest heights of power, eventually to become one of the most influential men who ever lived.

Now for the first time, here is a documented account of a story many believe to be…

The Greatest Story NEVER Told!

Learn the untold story about the most reviled man in history. Adolf Hitler, The Greatest Story Never Told is a 6-hour Documentary by TruthWillOut Films (http://thegreateststorynevertold.tv/).

This ground-breaking documentary chronicles the rise of Germany from defeat in World War I, to communist attempts to take over Germany; hyperinflation during the Weimar Republic, widespread unemployment and misery, and Adolf Hitler’s rise to power.

It also reveals a personal side of Adolf Hitler: who he was, his family background, his artwork and struggles in Vienna and what motivated him to come to power.


There’s so much hidden history to recount; FDR Pearl Harbor conspiracy, Soviet brutality, betrayal and treachery on all sides. Do we really know the true cost of war? Do we really possess all the facts?


Watch this series and uncover the real root causes of World War II. Do your own research and decide what you choose to believe. Think differently.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnu5uW9No8g

[Cidersomerset]

O **** Jack we are not doing this again ....LOL

I agree with some of the points in the above documentary and disagree with
others..


I was just looking at some of the many Hitler and related threads and there are
many more. Hitler was not born evil , he became the product of the end of
imperialism and the beginning of workers parties that manifested in various
ideologies from Communism, socialism . liberalism , democrats of many faces.
conservatives, nationalists, monarchists, Zionists , dictators and others.

Some have as much, if not more blood on their hands from Stalin to Trueman
and many in between. What Hitler did do in a very short space of time was to
rebuild and destroy Germany in little over a decade 1933 -45 and caused millions
of Germans and Europeans and others to die in yet another pointless war,
manipulated behind the scenes by many unseen financers and backers...........

Which was going on before Hitler came to power and has been going on right
up to today in the many and various manipulated conflicts to feed the Mil ind
complex's around the world and 'Banksters' who fund this 'blood money'....
Death machine conducted by manipulated politicians....



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Red Ice Radio - Dennis Wise - Hour 1 - Adolf Hitler: The Greatest Story Never Told

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73981-Red-Ice-Radio-Dennis-Wise-Hour-1-Adolf-Hitler-The-Greatest-Story-Never-Told

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The "Hitler" Speech They (Don't) Want You To Hear..!

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66011-The-Hitler-Speech-They--Don-t--Want-You-To-Hear..-

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Timeline of CIA Astrocities.....Cira 1941....1993 ....Just a few of the many commited...Must read

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?64892-A-Timeline-of-CIA-Astrocities.....Cira-1941....1993-....Just-a-few-of-the-many-commited...Must-read&p=750200&highlight=Adolph+Hitler#post750200

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The "REAL" HITLER..!

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40370-The-REAL-HITLER..-

[joeecho]

Everyone is a pawn in this world playing his/ her part. From Mother Theresa to Hitler....we all realize it in the end.

But the best thing is that it doesn't end there (or here).

http://hd.wallpaperswide.com/thumbs/sunrise_in_space-t2.jpg

[BlueMuffin]

This stuff gets circled around the internet from time to time and is heralded as some ground-breaking truth where as it's just as unbalanced as the general depiction that's offered as the 'official' story in the first place.

[Milneman]

Anyone else getting bored with this rehash of Hitler and the third reich as a means of stirring the pot?

[joeecho]

Anyone else getting bored with this rehash of Hitler and the third reich as a means of stirring the pot?

Well, its either that or a big spoon to stir the pot. Can't have stuff burn at the bottom of the pan. Milk really stinks if it starts burning. I prefer whole milk. Oh look, there is a dog playing with a red balloon outside.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6wGITuUYcc

[jackovesk]

Anyone else getting bored with this rehash of Hitler and the third reich as a means of stirring the pot?

So after (Watching) the entire (6 Hours) of the Documentary ((Milneman)) how about ((You)) kindly furnish us all with your acumen...:confused: :noidea:

How about providing ((Your)) deep insight & understanding of all the issues within the Documentary you thought were not appropriate or an issue...:confused:

I bet you look similar to this guy in real life...:o

http://media.giphy.com/media/c8YC8htf5YQg0/giphy.gif

PS - No soup for you...:nono:

http://media3.giphy.com/media/VJys6sgIRtcNa/200.gif

[loungelizard]

So after (Watching) the entire (6 Hours) of the Documentary ((Milneman)) how about ((You)) kindly furnish us all with your acumen...:confused: :noidea:

How about providing ((Your)) deep insight & understanding of all the issues within the Documentary you thought were not appropriate or an issue...:confused:



Jackovesk

How about you get the ball rolling by "furnishing us with your acumen", and sharing your "deep insight and understanding" by presenting your analysis of the material in this film, and the conclusions you have drawn from this analysis :o

I'd be interested to hear your review of the video you posted in the OP.

[jackovesk]

So after (Watching) the entire (6 Hours) of the Documentary ((Milneman)) how about ((You)) kindly furnish us all with your acumen...:confused: :noidea:

How about providing ((Your)) deep insight & understanding of all the issues within the Documentary you thought were not appropriate or an issue...:confused:



Jackovesk

How about you get the ball rolling by "furnishing us with your acumen", and sharing your "deep insight and understanding" by presenting your analysis of the material in this film, and the conclusions you have drawn from this analysis :o

I'd be interested to hear your review of the video you posted in the OP.

No you 1st lazylizard, I insist...:o

[loungelizard]

No you 1st lazylizard, I insist...

Oh but Jacko…I exhausted myself on your previous Hitler thread…http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66011-The-Hitler-Speech-They--Don-t--Want-You-To-Hear..-&highlight=hitler
…all that work on my part and so few thanks from you…:rolleyes:

and then my contribution to Giovonni's thread about Dennis Wise's "The Greatest Story Never Told" http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73981-Red-Ice-Radio-Dennis-Wise-Hour-1-Adolf-Hitler-The-Greatest-Story-Never-Told&highlight=dennis+wise

…and then my contribution to sywrong's thread about Dennis Wise's "The Greatest Story Never Told" http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?74487-Russian-and-prewar-Germany-are-similar&highlight=dennis+wise

Hey, you know what? For a documentary entitled "The Greatest Story Never Told", it's been told a hell of a lot on Avalon…:eyebrows:

So I'm sure you'll understand when I say that I'm completely shattered…this time, I implore you to lay it on the line first for us all to read, and I'll browse through your observations and see if I can summon up a comment…:kiss:

[jackovesk]

No you 1st lazylizard, I insist...

Oh but Jacko…I exhausted myself on your previous Hitler thread…http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66011-The-Hitler-Speech-They--Don-t--Want-You-To-Hear..-&highlight=hitler
…all that work on my part and so few thanks from you…

and then my contribution to Giovonni's thread about Dennis Wise's "The Greatest Story Never Told" http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73981-Red-Ice-Radio-Dennis-Wise-Hour-1-Adolf-Hitler-The-Greatest-Story-Never-Told&highlight=dennis+wise

…and then my contribution to sywrong's thread about Dennis Wise's "The Greatest Story Never Told" http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?74487-Russian-and-prewar-Germany-are-similar&highlight=dennis+wise

Hey, you know what? For a documentary entitled "The Greatest Story Never Told", it's been told a hell of a lot on Avalon…

So I'm sure you'll understand when I say that I'm completely shattered…this time, I implore you to lay it on the line first for us all to read, and I'll browse through your observations and see if I can summon up a comment…

Is that all you could muster...:faint:


After approximately 3,000+ 'Thread's I've started it seems from your observation, I have only posted only 1 ((Hitler Thread)) in 3,000+. Kind of make's your point a little ((mute)) doesn't it...:yes4:

Whereas out of those 3,000+ 'Threads' it's actually 7 Hitler-Threads I've actually started hear at Avalon. Your point is still ((mute)) IMHO...:noidea:

Nah, I'll wait for Newman's response first...:)

http://media.giphy.com/media/c8YC8htf5YQg0/giphy.gif

PS - Come to think about it who asked for your opinion in the 1st place...:confused:

PSS - Give Newman the benefit of the doubt & let him speak for himself without your interruptions..!!!

PSSS - Anyways all this is getting little ((RIDICULOUS))...:yes4:

My only 'Standing-Point' to Mileman/Newman was instead of doing a ((Dump & Run)) on a thread. How about ((Backing it Up)) 1st...:wizard:

Then I wouldn't have to reply in kind the way I did...!!!

Get it - Got it - Good...:thumb:

[mojo]

...didnt see the Hitler video until jackovesk's post, so thank you. Im part way through and some of the historical footage is a first for me and learned a few things along the way, that cant be bad....

[loungelizard]

Is that all you could muster...


After approximately 3,000+ 'Thread's I've started it seems from your observation, I have only posted only 1 ((Hitler Thread)) in 3,000+. Kind of make's your point a little ((mute)) doesn't it...:yes4:

Whereas out of those 3,000+ 'Threads' it's actually 7 Hitler-Threads I've actually started hear at Avalon. Your point is still ((mute)) IMHO...:noidea:

Nah, I'll wait for Newman's response first...:)

PS - Come to think about it who asked for your opinion in the 1st place...:confused:

PSS - Give Newman the benefit of the doubt & let him speak for himself without your interruptions..!!!

PSSS - Anyways all this is getting little ((RIDICULOUS))...:yes4:

My only 'Standing-Point' to Mileman/Newman was instead of doing a ((Dump & Run)) on a thread. How about ((Backing it Up)) 1st...:wizard:

Then I wouldn't have to reply in kind the way I did...!!!

Get it - Got it - Good...:thumb:

And there was me, thinking we were having a bit of light hearted banter :o

Putting your diversionary tactics to one side, I'd be still interested to read your opinion about the material in the video you posted. Despite the fact that it's been posted and discussed previously, you've not been part of the discussions, so now's your chance!

PS You asked for my opinion by posting this thread on the open forum.

PPS Who's this "Newman" you're referring to?

[Cidersomerset]

Don't mis understand this post and as far as I'm concerned the Third right regime
developed into one of the most evil in history along with many others especially
communist, and imperial empires and democratic ones in North America. Africa ,
Asia and Australia. Indiginous populations have suffered terribly.

Biological warfare is very old the tossing of rotten corpeses into enemy cities and
fouling drinking water goes right back , and if you believe Virmanas and other
ancient texts we may have nuked ourselves before....

Now concentration camps were first set up by the British in the Boer war in the
modern sense.and the Nasis in the 1930's/40's were getting some of their ideology
from existing sources.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was looking at an article about Eugenics, which is still be played out in Agenda 21
which is interesting and plays into the part of this discussion about who was really
behind all this chaos......


This was a scary little vid that popped up while I was googling.....

9_lsX4GBXE0


The Mindset of the Ruling Elite - Depopulation
.
Uploaded on 23 Apr 2011


Those running (ruining) the world today, think in exactly the same way as
Bernard Shaw and all the other Eugenicists of the 19th / 20th centuries.

Vaccines, Fluoridated Water, Bisphenol A in plastics, Pesticides, Soya
(so-called "health food") and Genetically Modified foods, can cause Sterility
in humans. And they're all promoted from the very same people who believe
that the earth is overpopulated. Are they secretly Sterilizing the population?
A chemical assault upon humanity?

Listen to Bill Gates say that Vaccines will be used to lower Population:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-lqDM...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eugenics, Depopulation and the Elite Mindset

Sunday 21st September 2014 at 05:33 By david-icke


http://www.zengardner.com/wp-content/uploads/logo-top1.png

Eugenics, Depopulation and the Elite Mindset

Eugenics
Social Engineering

by Zen Gardner - Sep 20, 2014


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/UN-Agenda2-448x6401.jpg

‘Let’s suppose the elitist scum working to ruin and control our lives and planet are
in some fashion real people to some extent. I know, a stretch, but let’s try. So how
can they perpetrate such horrors on humanity? How could such madness be
justified in the minds of men, however psychopathic?

Actually, it’s easy. For self promotion, preservation and power they’ve allowed
themselves to be convinced the power is theirs and the right thing to do. But what’s
their fundamental tenet for mass murder?

Everything they think and believe is a fabricated bastardization and reversal of any
real Truth, but in their minds they’ve decided this wicked, inhuman illuminist
takeover makes sense to them. Especially with their fat cheeks being firmly
ensconced in the seats of power.’


Oh, the vestiges of their human conscience may give some of them a nudge in
some cases, but it’s been shut down almost completely for most of them. It has to
be. You can’t have empathy and wreak such death dealing havoc on nature and
humanity.

If you’ve ever known or observed a pathological liar, this cauterized mindset is their
way of life. Politicians do it without the slightest compunction. To them it’s part of
the job description for ruling the unwashed masses. How is it justified logically? The
old “necessary evil” ruse, as in the justification for 9/11 and myriad of other actions.

The even more amazing thing is that they smugly revel in this ugliness, thinking
they’re the “good guys”.

Convincing the Cattle to Die – Eugenics Justifies All

Think about it. What a slam dunk for world domination to so twist perception to
where humanity is the problem that needs to be curtailed by draconian controls
while being systematically exterminated like a pest infestation. Be it engineered
wars, poverty and food shortages; drugging, corrupted food, and water; dumbed
down information and media, or injecting toxins in our bodies, all is fair game to them.

Eugenics is the “tie that binds”, the glue that holds all the other lies conveniently
together. And it takes the sting out of outright mass murder. For them. It’s
a “cleaning” and “preparation” for their desired world to come.

Look what Agenda 21 controls are perpetrated via things like climate change and
CO2 fabrications. Sure, we’re in the throes of massive climate extremes for many
reasons, many of them geoengineered, but to blame it on cattle flatulence and
human breathing must be some kind of macabre inside joke. Bottom line is they
are planning a great “culling of the herd” and need our permission. We’ve read
about it for decades in their elitist writings, and this is how they justify it and hope
to convince us as much as possible of the same. That’s the alert.

Remember, not waking up and saying no is ultimately humanity’s imprimatur that it
agrees. That’s where empowerment comes in. We can say no and reverse all this,
just as we’ve done in many instances. But the awakened shout out needs to be
immediate and insistent.

http://www.zengardner.com/wp-content/uploads/eugenicstree-e1411238329985.jpg

A Little Background

As eugenics, called the “self-direction of human evolution”, grew out of its inception
in the 1800’s, it was considered the harmonious result of all branches of science.
The US was the first to implement eugenics programs as early as 1908 and it
gained a lot of popularity and traction. What stopped it in its tracks, at least in
public opinion, was the Nazi implementation of eugenics during WW2 to the obvious
horror of all, however backed by the American program and exaggerated by Zionists.

This would later turn out to be an amazingly cunning pre-planned propaganda tool
as we’ll discuss below.

But now look how this eugenics campaign has been revived and is currently
perpetrated. With innocuous sounding names like Planned Parenthood to the UN’s
dastardly Agenda 21, the mass hive mind sees these measures as “progress” while
knowing little to nothing about the extensive anti-human nevermind anti-freedom
measures being foisted upon them.

And it’s not just genetic culling, it’s mass population reduction.

An elitist think tank called The Club of Rome set the latest stage for this last push
to demonize humanity with the contrived invention of militant, invasive
environmentalism. This appeared around the same time as the widely
sensationalized “population bomb” concept. While real ecology and conservationism
make common sense, this environmental agenda was created with the specific
intention to foist massive controls over human activities. That we’re now at the
incredulous point of having to pay a literal carbon tax is a total giveaway of their
fraudulent intentions.

Yet few catch on.

And again, like the lie of human caused global warming, we should feel guilty for
being alive, to such an extent that even our breath is supposedly killing the planet.

Insane. Yet they keep pushing their agenda regardless of real scientific data to the contrary.


http://www.zengardner.com/wp-content/uploads/Bill-Gates-Vaccines2-e1411238437693.jpg

Bill Gates Vaccines

The Cauterized Mind of Dystopians

While humanity doesn’t share the bestial mindset of the elites and their occult
driven agenda, these pounding programs wear on people. Over time the continued
onslaught of these nonsensical anti-truths start to wear a groove in the mass mind.

The psycho-trauma tool of choice? Cognitive dissonance.

Resistance subsides as seemingly contrary understandings–in this case, “I’m a
sovereign human being who deserves life and freedom” vs. “I’m a parasitic
organism killing my host planet and need to be eradicated”. Screwy, but that’s
what it boils down to.

And what gets synthesized in the mind to reconcile the two? “I guess they know
what they’re doing. Gee, we are bad and something needs to be done.” It doesn’t
really make sense so the overload causes a shutdown and back to the TV and ball
game they go, acquiescing by apathy.

Once again, the intended solution being foisted on society gains traction.

And daring to oppose this new status-quo? It has now been cleverly engineered to
be tantamount to terrorism, the ultimate behavioral catch-all.

Game. Set. Match…or so they think.

http://www.zengardner.com/wp-content/uploads/stealing-of-palestinian-land-by-israel-with-the-help-of-the-west.jpg

stealing-of-palestinian-land-by-israel-with-the-help-of-the-west

Zio-Kabbalism – An Identifiable Virus Form

While the arrogant, intellectual roots of modern eugenics seem to escape
mainstream consciousness, obvious forms of racism and genocidal extermination,
as recently exposed in the latest Gaza genocide, have been much
more evident. That the two are intrinsically connected takes one to the much
deeper understanding of what’s really going on on this planet – the elimination of
more conscious and rooted indigenous forms of humanity and the subjugation of
the remaining human race and its ultimate manipulation into a non-questioning
subservient form actually loving its enslavement.

Yes, just like the predictive programming evidenced in literature and film making for centuries.

The Zionist mindset with its Kabbalistic occult sense of supremacism is a clear
example of justified extermination of “lesser” beings. An incredible “in your face”
example that the world turns a blind eye to. Instead, they fall for the big lie created
by the engineered German holocaust that the perpetrators ofthis current
extermination of their “inferiors” as manifested in the millions of killed and
displaced Palestinians, is somehow because the killers are the potential victims.

That’s how they work. Manipulate history and pound the manipulated message
home via propaganda. That simple – as long as you have a complicit media and
engorging codependent governments. Behold the birth of the Zionist
parasite called Israel. A perfect example of the sick fruits of eugenically driven,
ravenous psychotic behavior,

When people wake up to that mechanism blood will run hot and heavy and they’ll
get their due. They always have and always will.

Evil dies from its own corrupted aberration. As in the human body, the protective
immune system of the Universe
will eventually disable and recycle these invaders.

01gleaqaci

The Interdimensional Connection

In a Universe of boundless life and energy we know entities of all types exist, which
even so-called modern scientists affirm. Dimensions abound beyond ours and
they’re here and interacting with our world.

This reality must play heavily into our personal understanding of our
interdimensional cosmos. We’re a world under siege, and we need to know our
enemies as well as our friends. That such forces of darkness can mount such a
profoundly coordinated attack on a planet of mainly meek, loving inhabitants reeks
of opportunity for an aggressive force. I don’t know exactly what’s going on but I
hope this helps present the case for what we’re potentially up against.

Inter-dimensional war.

http://www.zengardner.com/wp-content/uploads/01gleaqaci.jpeg

I would be remiss without pointing out these otherworldly influences on our three
dimensional experience. There is much more than meets the physical eye as we
well know. People are driven by many influences, and spiritual ones
are the most profound. Religions dutifully categorize such concepts as good and
bad influences, while metaphysics dissects these various aspects with intrigue.
Psychic, transcendental and after death phenomena also abound.

So please don’t tell me there’s nothing more than this observable world.

loveunitydance01

The Antidote – Disengage and Live in Truth and Love

http://www.zengardner.com/wp-content/uploads/loveunitydance01.jpg

Never give in mentally or spiritually to this onslaught. While we need to stay active
in exposing their perfidy, we cannot be part of their ensnaring mindset.

That’s why turning off all forms of mainstream media is so important. That’s why
immersion in positive influences, nature, and loving people to counter these types
of realities is so important.

Anyone in their right mind knows this kind of plan cannot succeed in the long run.
We happen to be at a time in history where these negative, barbaric influences are
peaking with the acceleration of hijacked technologies.

This too shall pass. But we should be vigilant and prepare as best we can, without
fear. It’s a time to grow in consciousness and communication with each other so we
can share our combined knowledge, insights and loving support.

Therein is life, one day at a time. As it always is.

Much love, Zen


Read more: Eugenics, Depopulation and the Elite Mindset


http://www.zengardner.com/eugenics-psychopathic-depopulation-sanctified/

[Cidersomerset]

Two other articles from today that suggest to me we are manipulated...


The research center also revealed that individuals with higher levels of
education and enviable salaries were more likely to embrace such theories than
their less-educated, lower-earning counterparts.’

All they want is obedient little workers........
==============================================

45% Of Russians Believe Shadowy Group Controls Humanity

Sunday 21st September 2014 at 09:35 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/get-attachment-127-587x439.jpg


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

45% Of Russians Believe Shadowy Group Controls Humanity

Sunday 21st September 2014 at 09:35 By david-icke

http://whitehousewhispers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2065569-macro-shoot-of-one-dollar-pyramid-and-all-seeing-eye-765x400.jpg



‘“The world is run by some sort of overarching entity that pulls the strings in governments around the
globe” is a statement nearly half of Russians would agree with, a state-run pollster revealed Wednesday.

The Russian Public Opinion Research Center found that 45 percent of Russians believe in the existence
of an omnipotent force that lords over state governments, controlling the affairs of humanity. Only
one-third of the population expressly rejects this hypothesis, while another 23 percent of Russians
remain undecided, according to the survey.

The research center also revealed that individuals with higher levels of education and enviable salaries
were more likely to embrace such theories than their less-educated, lower-earning counterparts.’


Among those who believe in the existence of such an impalpable entity, 22 percent think it is composed
of oligarchs and prominent business leaders from around the globe. Another 6 percent believe it is run
by the United States.

Yet more than half of those who believe in the entity’s existence are unable to identify who — or
what — it is comprised of. Respondents to the survey listed “Jews,” “masons” and “Great Britain,”
as among the groups that may be secretly running the show.

The survey also showed that 48 percent of those who believe in the existence of this global force
are uncertain about its primary motive, or the reason for its existence.

Another 32 percent of those who believe in its existence think that its goal lies in world domination,
while 10 percent said its aim is to enrich a select number of people.

The survey was conducted in late August among 1,600 adults from across 42 Russian regions.
The statistical margin of error did not exceed 3.4 percent.



Read more: 45% Of Russians Believe Shadowy Group Controls Humanity

http://whitehousewhispers.com/45-of-russians-believe-shadowy-group-controls-humanity/

=================================================================
================================================================

People are waking up all around the world especially due to the web, and what do elites do
when threatened create fear usually by War.....

They have done it in China and the West are making noises and now Vladimir may be joining in......

This may all be bluff and counter bluff but it just seems that whenever humans start
to come together someone wants to pull us apart.......

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kremlin to consider plans which could remove Russia from global Internet ‘in an emergency’

Saturday 20th September 2014 at 10:51 By david-icke

http://www.independent.co.uk/independent.co.uk/assets/images/redesign/masthead/indy-masthead-small.png


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/get-attachment-358-587x391.jpg


‘Russia may remove itself from the global Internet to protect itself against perceived threats
from the West, a Kremlin spokesman suggested on Friday.

The Krelmin dismissed accusations it aims to isolate the Russian Internet, and insists it is
merely concerned with protecting its national security – particularly as relations with the
West have reached their lowest since the Cold War.

However, the country has recently passed several laws targeting Internet use, which include
making popular bloggers register as media outlets, and forcing websites to store the personal
data of Russian users.’

Read more: Kremlin to consider plans which could remove Russia from global Internet 'in an emergency'


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/kremlin-to-consider-plans-which-could-remove-russia-from-global-internet-in-an-emergency-9745466.html

[Milneman]

Jackov,

Clearly I've offended you. I have perhaps falsely concluded that you have started another thread with the same tint as various others you have started, most of which have ended up with people being emotionally involved in very charged subjects which may or may not have been the goal of your original posts.

So, for that, please forgive me. It's not very professional of me and it lacks the real dialogue that academicians should have between each other.

In the interest of that, I'd like you to do me a favour. So that I can clearly understand what it is you're hypothesizing about, could you please

1. Write a thesis statement.
2. Provide academic peer reviewed proofs to your thesis.

I think if you did this, I'd have a clearer understanding as to what it is you're trying to say (which at this point is coming across as a pro-nazi stance). I'm not interested in what other people may have posted evidentially in this or other threads, I'm interested in what you have to say, and why you believe what you do. If you can give me what I'm looking for, a thesis grounded in academically grounded information, I might have a better understanding of what you're trying to say, and can respond in a more appropriate manner.

At this stage, reading sentences with words in brackets only gives me possibilities of what you're saying. In truth, I don't know if it's that you can't express yourself clearly or that you're choosing not to. At any rate, looking forward to moving forward on this topic with some factual and rational method.

[jackovesk]

Jackov,

Clearly I've offended you. I have perhaps falsely concluded that you have started another thread with the same tint as various others you have started, most of which have ended up with people being emotionally involved in very charged subjects which may or may not have been the goal of your original posts.

So, for that, please forgive me. It's not very professional of me and it lacks the real dialogue that academicians should have between each other.

In the interest of that, I'd like you to do me a favour. So that I can clearly understand what it is you're hypothesizing about, could you please

1. Write a thesis statement.
2. Provide academic peer reviewed proofs to your thesis.

I think if you did this, I'd have a clearer understanding as to what it is you're trying to say (which at this point is coming across as a pro-nazi stance). I'm not interested in what other people may have posted evidentially in this or other threads, I'm interested in what you have to say, and why you believe what you do. If you can give me what I'm looking for, a thesis grounded in academically grounded information, I might have a better understanding of what you're trying to say, and can respond in a more appropriate manner.

At this stage, reading sentences with words in brackets only gives me possibilities of what you're saying. In truth, I don't know if it's that you can't express yourself clearly or that you're choosing not to. At any rate, looking forward to moving forward on this topic with some factual and rational method.





Is that all you could muster...


After approximately 3,000+ 'Thread's I've started it seems from your observation, I have only posted only 1 ((Hitler Thread)) in 3,000+. Kind of make's your point a little ((mute)) doesn't it...

Whereas out of those 3,000+ 'Threads' it's actually 7 Hitler-Threads I've actually started hear at Avalon. Your point is still ((mute)) IMHO...

Nah, I'll wait for Newman's response first...

PS - Come to think about it who asked for your opinion in the 1st place...?

PSS - Give Newman the benefit of the doubt & let him speak for himself without your interruptions..!!!

PSSS - Anyways all this is getting little ((RIDICULOUS))...

My only 'Standing-Point' to Mileman/Newman was instead of doing a ((Dump & Run)) on a thread. How about ((Backing it Up)) 1st...

Then I wouldn't have to reply in kind the way I did...!!!

Get it - Got it - Good...

And there was me, thinking we were having a bit of light hearted banter :o

Putting your diversionary tactics to one side, I'd be still interested to read your opinion about the material in the video you posted. Despite the fact that it's been posted and discussed previously, you've not been part of the discussions, so now's your chance!

PS You asked for my opinion by posting this thread on the open forum.

PPS Who's this "Newman" you're referring to?

jackovesk's ((REPLY))..............................


Jackov,


For those of you who don't know who Jackov is?


I think Milneman's translation was clever way of saying JackOFF...:)

My Response:

1. Hitler supposedly helped setup a Marxist Totalitarian Govt. whereby through his Nazi ‘Propaganda Machine’ the banking system was portrayed as an ‘Economic Miracle’.

He set up the kind of Govt. the Jewish Bankers love, leading towards a Central Dictatorship. Whether Hitler was actually protecting certain Jewish Elite Establishments is ‘heresay’ and open to opinion?


But you want my opinion of this Documentary ‘Don’t You’…:yes4:


Answer: It’s a little too confusing with all the heresay & innuendo floating around this issue...:noidea:


2. The Holocaust – I’m a little skeptical of the large number of Jews reported to have been murdered by the Nazi’s? I have doubt's about how many actually died at the hands of the Nazi’s, the actual figure I don’t know? Certainly not as many as has been reported.

Or...

Was it just through ((Famine & Disease))...??? :noidea:


3. As you know ‘History’ is always written by the 'Victors/Winners' so the entire ((Hitler/Nazi/Rothschild/Jewish/Zionist)) connections will probably remain a mystery forever…:yes4:

Conclusion:

The Zionist Jews/Freemason's appear to be involved and both their Banking & War Machine is ((STILL)) operating today…:wizard:

PS – One more thing, I think its extremely ((Healthy)) to bring all this out in the open for ongoing discussion instead of having to listen to the ((MSM/Jewish Version)) which has been drummed into the psyche of the world’s population with a ((Sledge-Hammer)) and if you speak out against the ((Official Version of Events)) your instantly labeled a ((Racist & Anti-Semite))…!!!

PSS – The very same ((System of Power)) created by the Zionists is well and truly alive today..!

(Note: I do know there is a big difference between Zionism & the Jewish people per-say)

The majority of the World see the Jewish people as being ((Victims)) of the (holocaust) which is continually leveraged to drastically alter government policy on a global scale, to the detriment of all mankind. So when pushing the Holocaust ((Official Story)) helps them in being portrayed as ((Victims)). Whereas today they are actually the most powerful and aggressive country in the region...!


The ((Neo-Nazis - White Supremacist’s)) are going to be ((extremely disappointed)) their beloved ((Führer)) by way of this documentary is not the ((EVIL)) man as portrayed in the Official Story!

The Hitler they admire never existed. He would never have been a member of the Klu Klux Klan...:nono:

My view is ((Irrelevant)) it’s the ((Human Collective View)) which is important and Documentaries like this go that little ((Extra-Step)) towards getting to the ((Truth of the Matter))..!!!

With so many ((Lies & Innuendo)) regarding this whole issue it’s like being put in a ((Maze without & Exit))...

((All in All)) Humanity has been well and truly ((Duped)) by the ((Official Version)) and its about time that ((STOPPED))…:yes4:

I hope that clear a few things up for the both of you..!

PSS - It's extremely difficult to continually go into greater-depth on any of the threads I post these days because I'm ((time-poor)) due to work commitments.

Here is a 'Classic' example of the ((He said - She said)) conflicting arguments ((For & Against)) different sides found on the internet...


Disclaimer: ((Not my Words)) - Example/s Only...

Example # 1

November 14, 2013 at 9:40 am

This is a video made by a pro-nazi brainwashed piece of s..t. He claims there is no proof of the holocaust. He claims Hitler is not involved in the holocaust. Yet officially we have seen german footages of Hitler proclaiming his “final solution” to wipe out the Jews. I have also seen real footages of Jewish prisoners in detention camp looking like skeletons, and testimonial from American soldiers how some Jewish prisoners ripped apart the SS Nazi soldiers at the camp after the Americans freed the camp.

The writer spends a lot of time blaming Stalin, Churchill and Roosevelt for EVERYTHING.

Japan attacked Asia Pacific and committed a lot of war crimes there, yet he mentions nothing about it. All he mentions is how Churchill is to blame for the mysterious defeat of HK and Singapore to the Japs.

This guy is a nutcase. He should be locked up!

.......................................

Example # 2

November 14, 2013 at 10:25 am


Define “holocaust”. If you define it as the mass-murder of millions of Jews, then no, such an event never occurred, nor was there any intention by Hitler to exterminate the German Jews. There was certainly an intention to eliminate the Jews from Germany, but this was by way of expulsion, not gassings that could not have possibly occurred in facilities that did not exist and for which there is no scientific evidence to support them. This was Hitler’s “final solution”. If you think otherwise, i suggest researching the history yourself rather than rely on what you have been taught in government schools and Hollywood, as i have for most of my life. I assure that, if you put forth a little effort, what you learn will not only make your head spin, but you will have gained a useful education as well.

Everyone has seen footage of the prisoners in the detention camps, but what many fail to ask is, how did they become so undernourished? Because of the narration and sad music, we assume they were mistreated. Here’s some questions which you may want to research…

1) How did allied bombing affect the delivery of supplies to the camps, such as food and medicine, toward the end of the war? What was the effect in the camps as a result of the bombings?
2) What is Typhus and how widespread was the problem? What are the effects of Typhus?
3) If the Nazis intended to murder the prisoners, then why did they provide so many resources for their care and well-being, such as swimming pools, libraries, post offices and theater in some of the camps?
4) Other than hearsay, what physical evidence exists to support the claim of homicidal gas chambers?
5) Can you find one single document or speech by Hitler that supports that there was a policy to exterminate the Jews?

I don’t recall who said it, but it was said that history is written by the victors. The history we have been given regarding Germany’s role in WW2 was written by those who benefited from the war.

Hitler accomplished what no one before or since has managed; a complete rebuilding of Germany and her economic system in an extremely short period of time. And managed this while much of the rest of world was still suffering through the Great Depression (brought about by international bankers). In order to do so however, he felt that the Jews, who controlled large segments of the media, the legal system and the banks, as well as “modern art”, pornography and prostitution, had to be removed from Germany. Let us not forget that the mass majority of Germans supported him.


See what I mean..!!!

End of Discussion..!!!

[Milneman]

Jackov,

Where's the thesis?

This is (((still))) a confused mess.

Now I'm just bored. Moving on.

[loungelizard]

End of Discussion..!!!

Good to know you have an openminded, inquisitive attitude about this topic Jack...;)

It's amusing to read that you believe you've summed up this complex period of history in a few sentences and some cut and paste, while there are hundreds of thousands of scholars and academics who have dedicated decades in the ongoing search for truth regarding Hitler and the Third Reich.

If you read the contributions to your previous thread http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66011-The-Hitler-Speech-They--Don-t--Want-You-To-Hear..- you'd see clearly that the material provided there refutes the arguments you have raised here. No point in spending time disproving your theories that the holocaust wasn't too bad again because you didn't read my evidence the first time around...

It's important to understand that there is a vast difference between historical revisionism, which takes place constantly among professional, skilled historians based upon the investigation of historical evidence, and negationists: the latter hold preconceived conclusions based upon their ideology, and then set out to distort and deny evidence to fit their needs.

I wonder why you don't engage with an openminded sense of enquiry. Could it be that you have already created for yourself a view of history that fits with your personal distortions and bias? I'm not blaming you alone for that, as we are all guilty to a greater or lesser degree. It takes courage to take another, deeper look and consider that we could be wrong and that the comfortable web of lies that we've spun to protect our false beliefs might crumble.

Only someone who has a desperate need to preserve their belief system could close their eyes to evidence such as the 50 million pieces of Nazi documentation, photographs and film stored on 16 miles of shelving in Bad Arolsen, and refuse to acknowledge the statement such as this one by the commandant of Auschwitz that

"Mass executions by gassing commenced during the summer of 1941 and continued until fall 1944. I personally supervised executions at Auschwitz until 12/1/1943 and know by reason of my continued duties in the Inspectorate of Concentration Camps that these mass executions continued as stated above. All mass executions by gassing took place under the direct order, supervision, and responsibility of RSHA (Reich Security Main Office). I received all orders for carrying out these mass executions directly from RSHA."

It seems that you believe what you believe, and nothing anyone says will persuade you to relook at your belief system. So be it.

I too am bored. Moving on ;)

[jackovesk]

Jackov,

Where's the thesis?

This is (((still))) a confused mess.

Now I'm just bored. Moving on.



End of Discussion..!!!

Good to know you have an openminded, inquisitive attitude about this topic Jack...;)

It's amusing to read that you believe you've summed up this complex period of history in a few sentences and some cut and paste, while there are hundreds of thousands of scholars and academics who have dedicated decades in the ongoing search for truth regarding Hitler and the Third Reich.

If you read the contributions to your previous thread http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66011-The-Hitler-Speech-They--Don-t--Want-You-To-Hear..- you'd see clearly that the material provided there refutes the arguments you have raised here. No point in spending time disproving your theories that the holocaust wasn't too bad again because you didn't read my evidence the first time around...

It's important to understand that there is a vast difference between historical revisionism, which takes place constantly among professional, skilled historians based upon the investigation of historical evidence, and negationists: the latter hold preconceived conclusions based upon their ideology, and then set out to distort and deny evidence to fit their needs.

I wonder why you don't engage with an openminded sense of enquiry. Could it be that you have already created for yourself a view of history that fits with your personal distortions and bias? I'm not blaming you alone for that, as we are all guilty to a greater or lesser degree. It takes courage to take another, deeper look and consider that we could be wrong and that the comfortable web of lies that we've spun to protect our false beliefs might crumble.

Only someone who has a desperate need to preserve their belief system could close their eyes to evidence such as the 50 million pieces of Nazi documentation, photographs and film stored on 16 miles of shelving in Bad Arolsen, and refuse to acknowledge the statement such as this one by the commandant of Auschwitz that

"Mass executions by gassing commenced during the summer of 1941 and continued until fall 1944. I personally supervised executions at Auschwitz until 12/1/1943 and know by reason of my continued duties in the Inspectorate of Concentration Camps that these mass executions continued as stated above. All mass executions by gassing took place under the direct order, supervision, and responsibility of RSHA (Reich Security Main Office). I received all orders for carrying out these mass executions directly from RSHA."

It seems that you believe what you believe, and nothing anyone says will persuade you to relook at your belief system. So be it.

I too am bored. Moving on ;)

What a pair of absolute Gallah's...:faint:

Go write a 'Thesis' yourself...:yes4:

Better still, start your own 'Thread's and you can then discuss this ((together)) til the cows come home...!!!

Like I said, I don't have the time to do a 'Quid Pro Quo' with people I have absolutely ((No Respect)) whatsoever for...:nono:

PS - Why does this kind of thing ((Always)) happen on these kind of "Threads" I wonder...:confused:

Par for the course I guess...:noidea:

[Andrew]

That one man's testimony that Loungelizard loves to copy & paste on every holocaust discussion and pretty much the only thing you have given us tbh. I bet he was bribed to say those things and hung afterwards anyway.

And where is all this documentation proving the Holocaust? I've never seen you post any.

[Bill Ryan]

Anyone else getting bored with this rehash of Hitler and the third reich as a means of stirring the pot?

Just supporting Jacko here, a little. :) Personally, I found the documentary fascinating. We're all lied to about a LOT of stuff, all the time. Just WHAT the lies are, we need to be smart enough to discern (and also, the reasons for them). Cui Bono? (Who benefits?) And that's not always straightforward to figure out.

The documentary is LONG! (That's one of the problems.) In order to comment intelligently about it, one ideally has to watch the whole thing, and that's quite a commitment. However, the first hour or so gives one the flavor. And there most definitely seem to be some historical facts in there that have been heavily overlooked (or suppressed/spun).

We do have to always bear in mind that most history books are written by the victors.

[Agape]

That one man's testimony that Loungelizard loves to copy & paste on every holocaust discussion and pretty much the only thing you have given us tbh. I bet he was bribed to say those things and hung afterwards anyway.

And where is all this documentation proving the Holocaust? I've never seen you post any.

It would be indeed intelligent ( as Bill says ) to see both sides of truth ..but there again, we seem to run to a basic problem here called 'truth is what I consider the truth'.

I have never enough of getting more perspective ( well, often I do ) .. but one thing that I found shocking is that whatever thread is opened on the topic here on forum,
it's seasoned with provocations about 'truth is not what it seems = denial of WWII holocaust ' .

I don't mind getting more perspective on why this was done .. unless I've got it sorted already in my head , till now, with plenty of information both from n off the world ,

but I do mind when by certain 'silent nudges' from the forum administrative we get to impression here that

truth can't be cognised in this timeline

the secret maybe there was no holocaust

we who live in America , Australia, Asia , etc . have no idea about European history, never seen it in our eyes that's why anything is possible

etc .

It makes people uncomfortable about the subject and about wanting to learn more , because there are still survivors among us, direct witnesses , and children of them , and this part of history , I repeat is not , and never has been 'about Jews' .
It's about hate , about mind manipulation , about leading people to senseless wars ,

and forcing these people an idea that nothing has actually happened to the millions of them, their brothers and sisters, holocaust did not exist , gas chambers did not exist , camps served for nice purpose is really ..
either a sign that your brain, part of it is so soft that IT CAN NOT TAKE IT so in order to live in your fairy tale you will be telling your children another fairy tale or that you prefer disinformation.

I admit it's tough . But if you people are blind and mushy from within and don't see what is happening in Syria these days and what is happening in Africa and elsewhere on this planet , it's not much better than your holocaust .


:peep:

[Hervé]

Ah... psy-ops (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54217-Their-Mind-and-the-Emotional-Matrix-that-we-create-with-it.&p=652209&viewfull=1#post652209)... smoke and mirrors... misdirections... emotional stirrings and steerings... he did it... no! he started it... oh, well...

In the following are some data as to why an opposite pair of puppets like Hitler-Stalin in the first place, or, even, why two world wars... and the scheme is very simple: Problem - Reaction - Solution... at a planetary scale.

So, here is the hors-d’œuvre:



The followings are excerpted from Sue Arrigo's case 20 (http://avalonlibrary.net/Sue_Arrigo/):

Skull and Bones Founded the CIA

[...]

A History of Skull and Bones Rituals Recalled From their Own Archives

They practice Christianity with their lips, and Satanism by their deeds....

[...] Rodman Rockefeller tasked me to look into the issue. He was not happy with the almost 10% failure rate. Ops were run on Congressmen, CEO’s, and foreign dignitaries. Having to kill 10% of them soon after inviting them to a “DC Party” was a high security risk--- someone might notice and leak that to a part of the press which was not well controlled. So, Rodman was very anxious that the “failure rate”get below 5%.

Rodman brought me the historical records from the Skull and Bone’s Crypt. That included a blood smear on paper for each of the major rituals, and also financial records, and diaries. There was also an official registry of deaths, the names of the victims was occasionally listed as unknown. In the 1830’s, the basic Skull and Bone’s ritual was to rape/sodomize and then kill a victim with a knife, in no particular order.

[...]

That era came to an end when one of the parents of a sacrificed boy found out about it. The other students in that year were given a choice to serve in WWI or be put in prison. They chose military service. It was a curious choice to give them as the US was not in WWI yet—in fact, no one was. It would take several more years before WWI started. The Bonesmen elders were behind schedule in getting it off the ground. Per the documents in the Rockefeller Archive much preparation had been done to ensure a world war. [...]


Rothschilds/John D. Rockefeller, Sr. funded the Bolshevik Revolution (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?24873-Jacob-Schiff-Ordered-Czar-Nicholas-II-s-Murder&p=260553&viewfull=1#post260553) (<--- click)

Jacob Schiff Ordered Czar Nicholas II's Murder (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?24873-Jacob-Schiff-Ordered-Czar-Nicholas-II-s-Murder&p=260920&viewfull=1#post260920) (<--- click)

For an idea on the "big" picture (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?25102-For-an-idea-on-the-big-picture) (<--- click)



... and here is the main course:


[...]

Myron Fagan Sounded Alarm in 1967
September 21, 2014

Why America is Going Down the Drain (http://henrymakow.com/2014/09/Myron-Fagan-Sounded-Alarm-in-1967.html)

Myron Fagan (1887-1972) was a distinguished and successful Broadway producer (http://educate-yourself.org/nwo/myronfaganbio.shtml), writer and director. A Jew, he tried to alert his fellow Americans to their coming by the Illuminati. Here are 12 trenchant points from a 1967 address, "The Illuminati & the CFR," that resonate today more than ever.


KrUXPn7HCjM

[...]

Transcript for the above video at: http://www.awakeandarise.org/article/MyronFagan.htm
Fagan 1967 mp3 file (http://www.awakeandarise.org/radio/Myron_Fagan.mp3) ... (right click ---> "Save [target] as")
Fagan PDF (http://www.awakeandarise.org/article/Fagan.pdf) ............... (right click ---> "Save [target] as")
Fagan RTF (http://www.awakeandarise.org/article/Fagan.rtf) ............... (right click ---> "Save [target] as")

[Cidersomerset]

Thanks Amzer for putting up a 2.30 hrs vid on top of the 6hr intro post...LOL

I'm an hour in and it is very good , much I have heard from other sources,
but it is a good presentation from 1969, there is a little time bias as there
always is in historical speeches as they are speaking from their perspective.

The piece about stirring up the Arab world , which was very fresh with the setting
up of the Iraeli state and in the shadow of the six day war of 1967, when Israel
routed the Arab armies and set up the Palestinian destruction of the last few
months in GAZA, and of course the Western/ Israeli backed Arab oil states in Saudi
etc , are finally trying to get rid of the former soviet backed states like Syria and
eventually Iran.....

There are obviously 100's of manipulated events by the 'Banksters' funding and
influencing elites and political events since 'Waterloo' including the so call
democracies of today.......
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obama’s UN Ambassador Admits Fight Against ISIS Designed to Take Out Assad in Syria

Tuesday 23rd September 2014 at 13:01 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/get-attachment-226-587x365.jpg


‘Obama’s United Nations ambassador Samantha Power told Chuck
Todd of NBC on Sunday the real purpose of the fight against ISIS is
to overthrow al-Assad and the Syrian government.

Power said the “moderate” Free Syrian Army (FSA) will receive an
“infusion of support” in its battle against both ISIS and the Syrian
government which is, according to Power and the United States,
“backed by Hezbollah, Iran, Russia, etc.”

Omitted from the discussion is the fact ISIS, al-Nusra and the
FSA have merged forces.’

Read more: Obama’s UN Ambassador Admits Fight Against ISIS
Designed to Take Out Assad in Syria

Short vid on link....

http://www.infowars.com/obamas-un-ambassador-admits-fight-against-isis-designed-to-take-out-assad-in-syria/


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

John Kerry’s rhetoric on Isis insults our intelligence and conceals the reality of the situation in Syria

Tuesday 23rd September 2014 at 13:00 By david-icke

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/get-attachment-108-587x352.jpg

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.independent.co.uk/independent.co.uk/assets/images/redesign/masthead/indy-masthead-small.png

John Kerry’s rhetoric on Isis insults our intelligence and conceals the reality of the situation in Syria

‘John Kerry is becoming more and more like William McGonagall, the “worst poet in
the world” whose horror at the 1879 Tay Bridge railway disaster yielded the
imperishable observation that it “will be remember’d for a very long time”.

Like McGonagall’s verse, Kerry’s attempts to explain America’s crusade against its
latest evil enemy are so awful, they are addictive. Just when you think that Kerry’s
lame explanation to American politicians of Obama’s Iraqi crusade – “[Isis] has to
be defeated, plain and simple, end of story” – can’t get any more childish, it does.’

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/john-kerrys-rhetoric-on-isis-insults-our-intelligenceand-conceals-the-reality-of-the-situation-in-syria-9747439.html

====================================================

NWO researchers like David Icke , Alex Jones and others , switch some people off
and they find it hard to listen to them because they cannot resinate with
'negative' frequencies . But all they are doing is connecting the dots over the years
and present these crisis as they unfold to the bigger picture.

which is what this whole manipulation of reality by Rothchilds and other elites
to keep the 99% of global population in credit debt and work slaves to service
the 1 %......

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alex sums up the Global elites blue print......He may not be completely right but he
is on the right track.....

W1zGJApfbDc

Published on 23 Jun 2014


Alex breaks down the creation and funding of jihadi groups by the US and it's allies
for years, the current invasion of iraq as well as the world impact of another Iraq
invasion.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I did not realise the above vid was the intro to a David Icke visit to Alex
until he announced he was on next at the end of the segment....LOL


Now David is another of the researchers that talks all about the Illuminatti
and other elites......


ziE5FoH0sPs

Published on 23 Jun 2014


Alex welcomes English writer, public speaker and former media personality David
Icke for his perspective on ISIS' destabilization efforts.

[Cidersomerset]

Aprox 20 mins in the David Icke vid above he starts talking about Dr.Richard Day , which
made me burst out laughing as I just put a thread up about him, as others have before
and it is from 1969 also......More Dots...LOL

===================================================

FUTURE SHOCK.....From Dr.Richard Day 1969 lays out projected plan for the future...The New Order of Barbarians

In this short vid David summarizes developments of events over the past 50 yrs
at least, if you are 'awake' and been following the projected plan that has been
going on particularly in the US, and also worldwide. Every topic has been
discussed on Avalon and elsewhere, even mainstream but not pieced together by
them as social engineering. Although it is obvious in the alternate community...


The David Icke Videocast: Future Shock - Change Through Mental And Emotional Trauma

iCCPZseUmEE

Published on 19 Sep 2014
The David Icke Videocast can be delivered to your email every Sunday.

======================================================

George Carlin - The Rothschilds Control America

wigDHjEwPuE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This has been posted before and lays out predicted social habits for the future
from 1969.If you have lived thru this period ,as I have you will recognise much
of what the narrator is reminiscing in this interview from 1988 , particularly in the
west. The overall agenda is still going on now.


The New Order of Barbarians

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Published on 12 Nov 2012


Tapes one and two were recorded in 1988 and are the recollections of Dr. Lawrence
Dunegan regarding a lecture he attended on March 20, 1969 at a meeting of the
Pittsburgh Pediatric Society. The lecturer at that gathering of pediatricians (identified in
tape three recorded in 1991) was a Dr. Richard Day (who died in 1989). At the time Dr.
Day was Professor of Pediatrics at Mount Sinai Medical School in New York. Previously
he had served as Medical Director of Planned Parenthood Federation of America. Dr.
Dunegan was formerly a student of Dr. Day at the University of Pittsburgh and was well
acquainted with him, though not intimately. He describes Dr. Day as an insider of
the "Order" and although Dr. Dunegan's memory was somewhat dimmed by the
intervening years, he is able to provide enough details of the lecture to enable any
enlightened person to discern the real purposes behind the trends of our time.

Dr. Dugegan reveals not just "WHAT" is intended for America and all people in the
world, but "HOW" the controllers intend to carry out their plan. He covers topics such as:

IS there a power, A force or a group of men organizing and redirecting
change? "Everything is in place and nobody can stop us now . . ." People will have to
get used to change -- everything will change, constantly The REAL and the "STATED"
goals Population Control Permission to have babies Redirecting the purpose of sex - sex
without reproduction and reproduction without sex Sex education as a tool of World
Government Encouraging homosexuality... Sex, anything goes Euthanasia and
the "Demise Pill" Limiting access to affordable medical care makes eliminating the
elderly easier Planning the control over medicine Elimination of private doctors New
Difficult to diagnose and untreatable diseases Suppressing cancer cures as a means of
population control. Inducing heart attacks as a form of assassination Education as a tool
for accelerating the onset of puberty and pushing evolution and MUCH, MUCH MORE

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/editpost.php?p=878738&do=editpost

[jackovesk]

Anyone else getting bored with this rehash of Hitler and the third reich as a means of stirring the pot?

Just supporting Jacko here, a little. :) Personally, I found the documentary fascinating. We're all lied to about a LOT of stuff, all the time. Just WHAT the lies are, we need to be smart enough to discern (and also, the reasons for them). Cui Bono? (Who benefits?) And that's not always straightforward to figure out.

The documentary is LONG! (That's one of the problems.) In order to comment intelligently about it, one ideally has to watch the whole thing, and that's quite a commitment. However, the first hour or so gives one the flavor. And there most definitely seem to be some historical facts in there that have been heavily overlooked (or suppressed/spun).

We do have to always bear in mind that most history books are written by the victors.

:bump:

Thanks for your support Bill, my sentiments exactly...:yes4:

[Rex]

My only nit with Dennis Wise's documentary is what about Josef Mengele? Maybe I missed his mention in that long documentary. Anyone have any info on him other than what we've been traditionally led to believe?

[Cidersomerset]

My only nit with Dennis Wise's documentary is what about Josef Mengele? Maybe I missed his mention in that long documentary. Anyone have any info on him other than what we've been traditionally led to believe?

There are many vids and survivor reports of the experiments he did , now you either
believe them or you don't, this is a interview with his son who visited him in Brazil
in 1977 before he died.....


iudadF35Ndw

Published on 21 Jul 2012


Rolf Mengele, the only son of the infamous SS doctor and war criminal, Josef Mengele
discusses meeting his father. This meeting occurred in Brazil in the 1970's.

Josef Mengele is infamous for many atrocities, including his experiments on twins at
Auschwitz, and his work at the Auschwitz selection post, deciding who lives and dies
as the trains were off loaded.

After the war, Josef Mengele was captured at least twice but was able to disguise his
identity as he did not have the standard SS blood type tattoo on his left arm. With the
help of his wealthy family, he moved first to Nazi-friendly Argentina and finally to Brazil
where he died of a stroke/drowning in 1979.

This interview probably dates to 1985. Another very significant interview of
Rolf Mengele can be seen here: See below....

======================================================


Rolf Mengele on meeting his father, Dr. Josef Mengele

JFQaDSv1IKg

Published on 8 Feb 2014

In 1986, American talk show host, Phil Donahue, had an hour-long live program
about Nazi Dr. Josef Mengele, the Angel of Death from Auschwitz. His guests included
Mengele's only son, Rolf Mengele, for his only U.S. television appearance ever.
And Gerald Posner, the co-author of a biography of Dr. Mengele, published that same year.

==================================================

This is an interesting clip it shows the horror of the medical experiments that
occurred in some of the concentration camps. The voice box victim says something
about Mengele that is surprising , that he is conflicted about him for although
he suffered painfull experiments. He says if he was not picked out by Mengele
he would have been killed earlier. Though this does not excuse Mengale as many
others were killed after they finished with or while being experimented on. It
seems it was wide spread by the medical staff to experiment on victims they
classed as already dead by being sent to the camps in the first place.

This would explain Mengale detachment of what he did when he told his
son in the top vid when he visited him in Brazil, it was all allied propaganda....


Auschwitz Medical Experiments......

7SAiaEuiDXU

[Cidersomerset]

This is the section about Hitler from the main recording above in # 24

Its interesting and he says Hitler was backed by the conspirators Rothchilds / illuminati cabal
He runs through some of the events leading up to WW11 and he also claims it was 100,000's
of Jews not millions murdered in the concentration camps . Although the whole recording
is overall very interesting ,There are plenty of parts showing Myron Fagons own political prejudice
especially to Martin 'Lucifer' King as he calls him and other aspects I noticed as it went along
certainly very anti communist , which makes sense in the period it was recorded and how
he interprets the ' Bankster Cabel' trying to take over the world.

The whole 2.30 hrs recording is an interesting view and worth considering as part
of the bigger picture...

I have not checked the links below the vid ,they were on the U/tube link
in case anyone wants to look.....

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Myron Fagan explains Hitler

XGLhhHu1Kig

Published on 16 Jul 2012


"Therefore I conjectured that this man-from-nowhere might in truth be the
accomplice of Communism and Political Zionism, two forces which have always
supported each other. His 'Fascism' thus seemed to me to be merely the third
prong of one trident, with which the cauldron of our century is kept stirred." -
Douglas Reed's Somewhere South of Suez, 1951, pages 179-181


"Every step of Nazism was financed by wall street bankers." - Eustace Mullins


"Fascism is nothing but another form of the Fabian socialism for which the
freemasons laid the foundation." - Juri Lina, Architects of Deception, Pg 259

http://loveforlife.com.au/files/Secre...

http://theinfounderground.com/smf/ind...
http://theinfounderground.com/smf/ind...
http://newsfromatlantis.freeforums.or...

Masonic handshake/gestures:
http://i46.tinypic.com/29njcqh.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/bzmlk.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/2e5tyyp.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/2dnn2r.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/6e44sh.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/9glxzd.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/muikx0.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HcDTE...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s-ulz...

There are people who constantly tell you to go read Mein Kampf or listen to Hitler's
speeches with the intention of keeping your mind focused on WORDS instead of his
actions. There were Nazis and "Aryanized" Jews with names like Mendelssohn,
Warburg, Wittgenstein and Oppenheimer (Horst, Eberhard, Max, Waldemar,
Friedrich) all over the Nazi party.

Hitler's used Jewish bankers (all the while ranting against them): Hjalmar Schacht,
Otto Jeidels, Jacob Goldschmidt

http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.bl...


http://www.lawrence.edu/sorg/objectiv...
http://www.importanceofphilosophy.com...
http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/fas...
http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.com...
http://rense.com/general37/char.htm


Thus the World Order organizes and finances Jewish groups; it then organizes and
finances anti-Jewish groups; it organizes Communist groups; it then organizes and
finances anti-Communist groups. It is not necessary for the Order to throw these
groups against each other; they seek each other out like heat-seeking missiles, and
try to destroy each other. By controlling the size and resources of each group, the
World Order can always predetermine the outcome.
- Eustace Mullins, The World Order Our Secret Ruler (1984)

"In addition, while Karl Marx was writing the "Communist Manifesto" under the
director of one group of Illuminists, Professor Karl Ritter of Frankfurt University was
writing the antithesis under the direction of another group. The idea was that those
who direct the overall conspiracy could use the differences in those two so-called
ideologies to enable them to divide larger and larger numbers of the human-race
into opposing camps so that they could be armed and then brainwashed into
fighting and destroying each other. And particularly, to destroy all political and
religious institutions. The work Ritter started was continued after his death and
completed by the German so-called philosopher Freidrich Wilhelm Nietzsche who
founded Nietzscheanism. This Nietzscheanism was later developed into Fascism and
then into Nazism and was used to foment World War I and II." - Myron Fagan
(Jewish convert to Christianity)


Nowadays, if any States raise a protest against us it is only pro forma at our
discretion and by our direction, for their anti-Semitism is indispensable to us for the
management of our lesser brethren. -- protocol 9

But if a plot should arise in its midst, then the person in charge of that plot will be
none other than one of our most trusted servants. - Protocol #15

[Cidersomerset]

This is another article I saw earlier and fits in since we are talking about 'Banksters'

What are the Rockefeller Upto ......????? The timing is just after the Climate Marches over the Weekend !!
and the Climate summit coming up.....



http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/fr/local/cache-vignettes/L720xH300/arton115374-34cef.jpg
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Rockefellers go green: Rockefeller foundation divests funds in fossil fuel industries

Tuesday 23rd September 2014 at 12:51 By david-icke


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/get-attachment-130-587x428.jpg

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http://www.independent.co.uk/independent.co.uk/assets/images/redesign/masthead/indy-masthead-small.png

Rockefellers go green: Rockefeller foundation divests funds in fossil fuel industries



http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article9749773.ece/alternates/w620/28-Rockefeller-Getty.jpg

American oil dynasty to pull all investment in fossil fuel industries on eve of
global climate change summit, placing it as an unlikely champion of the push
towards alternative energy sources

David Usborne Author Biography
New York
Monday 22 September 2014



‘The American family that for decades has been synonymous not just with
great riches but with riches created by oil said on Monday that it was moving
to divest itself entirely from all oil and fossil fuel interests.

Descendants of John D Rockefeller, who tapped the black gushers of Texas
and California more than a century ago to forge Standard Oil, a company
that was later to spawn such names as Exxon, Chevron, Amoco and Mobil,
announced the decision on the eve of the climate change summit in New York.’

Read more: Rockefellers go green: Rockefeller foundation divests funds
in fossil fuel industries

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/rockefellers-go-green-rockefeller-foundation-divests-funds-in-fossil-fuel-industries-9749767.html

[Rocky_Shorz]

Rockefeller is pissed...

they've been buying up huge parcels of land over water tables, the Fricking Frackers polluted the water so it can no longer be sold without expensive refining...

they might be putting on a white hat, would be an incredible ally to clean energy, and don't forget, according to our Buddy Ben, he just met with the WDS....

[Cidersomerset]

Edit original vid timed out and I cannot remember what it was ? James Corbett
is a very good researcher....

"Hitler Was A Rothschild" -James Corbett

z8ihB1wzJGM

Published on 17 Feb 2017


"All wars are banker wars". Thus, history's heroes and villains are bank puppets.

http://www.maebrussell.com/About%20Ma...

"Hitler and the central banks" Mullins
https://youtu.be/JWcTAOjkEik

"Wall St and the rise of Hitler"
https://youtu.be/3sCpsq55uic
http://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/Su...

Dunkirk
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/59...

Bushes & Nazis
https://www.corbettreport.com/episode...

===================================================
===================================================


Rothschild Cartel behind the rise of Hitler also funding communism socialism and world war

DilIn9ffRFA

Published on 4 Apr 2013


http://www.stevequayle.com/


Interview with Doctor Anthony C Sutton on his research about the funding
of Nazi party and of Soviet communists by a group of American and European
financiers and industrialists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antony_C...


Anthony Sutton, a research fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution from
1968 to 1973. During his time at the Hoover Institute he wrote the major study
Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development (in three volumes), arguing
that the West played a major role in developing the Soviet Union from its very
beginnings up until the present time (1970). Sutton argued that the Soviet Union's
technological and manufacturing base—which was then engaged in supplying the
Viet Cong -- was built by United States corporations and largely funded by US
taxpayers. Steel and iron plants, the GAZ automobile factory - a Ford subsidiary,
located in eastern Russia - and many other Soviet industrial enterprises were,
according to Sutton, built with the help or technical assistance of the United States
or U.S. corporations. He argued further that the Soviet Union's acquisition of MIRV
technology was made possible by receiving (from U.S. sources) machining equipment
for the manufacture of precision ball bearings, necessary to mass-produce MIRV-enabled missiles.

[Cidersomerset]

I often find it weird where the links take me on You Tube, I know a lot
about the battles of WW11 as I have been interested in military history
from a boy watching all the war movies in the 1960's when most of
us played war games.

The war was won and lost mainly on the Eastern front and this tells
the story of Hitlers last army and the futility of war from both German
and Russian perspective as the Battle for Berlin approached...........


The 9th and last army of Hitler in World War II

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Published on 11 Aug 2014
The Soviets began their invasion of Germany on January 12, 1945 and forced the
9th Army to retreat all along the front until it was deployed westward to the river
Oder. Three of the 9th Army's formations were tasked with defending the Seelow
Heights, which was the last defensible region before Berlin.

[aikisaw]

Hey jackovesk , thanks for another good thread. I'm glad you keep putting this subject out there. It deserves to have a honest discussion and debate.

I do not agree with the line of thinking that follows... Hitler was a Rothschild and a stooge of the bankers. While there is truth in that framework, it appears to be another diversion from Hitlers ideas and what made him a danger to the west.

Hitler was a Rothschild? I could find links which say this is not true. We would then go down a never ending circle of your links vs my links and what does it matter? It appears this is an attempt to make Hitler a part the cabal which he certainly was not. Even if Hitler was born a Rothschild he was not one of them.

I would agree Hitler was used and set by the west and money power. He is still being used today. The entire line of thinking which allows us to bomb villages in Iraq or Gaza but then tell ourselves , we are not as bad as the Nazi's. Hitler was evil. We are not that bad.

It would seem obvious that the bankers and major corporations would invest in Hitler and Germany. They are capitalists. There was money to be made. That is what they do. Today's example ... US has economic sanctions on Russia. McDonald's is still selling burgers in Russia. Russia is letting them sell burgers in Russia.

Money was not Hitlers driving motivation. I think lumping him with the Rothschild capitalist crowd is a mistake.

Did he take the bankers money, and western capitalist investment ??? YES ...YES and yes. He was building a 1,000 year Reich. You have to start somewhere.

Here is something of a different color. I found this a few months ago and have been deciding if I wanted to post it.

It may answer some questions on the 6 million number. The gas chamber story doesn't work at all. As with any new information you are forced to give up something you thought true. All you have to give up here is that the west invented the Nuclear weapon.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/03/10/black-sun-rising-part-4-2/


German historian Rainer Karlsch together with TV journalist Heiko Petermann have presented substantial evidence that the Germans detonated a nuclear bomb near the Thuringian town of Ohrdruf on March 3 1945. It may not have been the only one.

There was probably another detonation in Ohrdruf and one on Rügen; Germany’s largest island. There were others too. America’s Chief prosecutor Robert Houghwout Jackson is on record as having questioned Albert Speer at Nuremberg about instantaneously incinerating twenty thousand Jews right outside of Auschwitz.

There is also a report, declassified by the National Security Agency in 1978, from the Japanese embassy in Stockholm to Tokyo: Inter 12 Dec 44 (1,2) Japanese; Rec’d 12 Dec 44; Trans 14 Dec 44 (3020-B). The message alerts Tokyo that the Germans have an “atom splitting bomb” which they have already deployed to limited use on Russian troop concentrations “at a location 150 kilometers southeast of Kursk. Although it was the entire 19th Infantry Regiment of the Russians which was thus attacked, only a few bombs (each round up to 5 kilograms) sufficed to utterly wipe them out to the last man.” The message graphically describes Russian soldiers and horses charred black with ammo exploded in place from the heat. The message goes on to speculate that the weapon was also used in the Crimea.

In spite of Zionism’s utter desperation to maintain the fairytale — which it does through an army of internet shills and scholastic hacks — the dam has burst open and the Khazar are finally taking a much needed bath. There is no longer any question about whether National Socialism had the atomic bomb long before America. The question is why they didn’t use it. Perhaps only a soldier can answer that question. Hitler was many things; praetor human orator, philosopher, a man so charismatic that women, children and animals swooned in his presence but the madman of the Zionist fairytale he was not. Above all the aforementioned things he was a soldier. He was a decorated war hero of unquestionable bravery. He knew death like a tailor knows his cloth. Otto Skorzeny was one of the greatest soldiers who ever lived, Hitler’s personnel friend and commando of choice when failure was not an option. After the war he was a celebrity, admired by the men who were his adversaries. He in his book Meine Kommando-Unternehmen he recounts a conversation with Hitler.Spontaneously I spoke of the rumors about the artificial radioactivity and its possible use as a weapon. Hitler looked at me with shining, feverish eyes and said:

“Do you know Mr. Skorzeny if the energy released by nuclear fission and in the bargain radioactivity is used as weapons that this would signify the end our planet? The effect would be awful. Even if the radioactivity was controlled and the nuclear fission used as a weapon the consequences would be awful! When Dr. Todt was with me, I read that such a device with controlled radioactivity freed an energy which will leave devastation to be compared only to Arizona and Siberia with Baikal after the impact of meteorites. That’s every form of life, not only human, but also the animal and plants would be completely extinguished for hundreds of years in a radius of 40 kms. This would be the Apocalypse. And how should one preserve such a secret for one self? Impossible! No! No land, no group of civilized people can consciously take over such a responsibility.

Here is the rest of the series.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/author/jackheart/

[araucaria]

There is a threrad today about the disappearance of Peter Levenda. So I listened to an interview of his with his thoughts on the topic of this thread, starting at 30.00.
aVEL_kbJ8DA

He warns how the Nazis came from a New Age background. I would add that it is somewhat schizophrenic to condemn the Nazification of America while promoting a revision of the Nazification of Germany. Nazism was not the wrong enemy then, for people operating in terms of enemies, Nazism is not the wrong 'enemy' now. Which is not to fall into the arms of 20th century communism either.

World War II presented a 'neither nor' situation as an 'either or' choice. Apparently the lesson has not been learned. Some people seem to want to turn this thing around and start all over again.

[Cidersomerset]

Edit the vids in this post have timed out and until I find something else this is
a interesting doc.....


WWII Hitler Germany funded by the Bank of England (Rothschild's) as well Wall-street Industrial's

KLwaNYFixXM

[AriG]

Thank you Jacko. Only one hour into this, but it is fascinating and informative. Will probably take me the better part of the week to finish.

I grew up with a Nazi. My stepfather was a card carrying member of the Nazi party and his story was that he was on a U Boat in WWII ( he was 15 years older than my mother). The real story is that he was a Project Paperclip beneficiary. He was an Engineer/Scientist.

His take on the Hitler Reich was this:


* Hitler was the poster child of the Rockefeller Reich and was a tool to fight the on going cold war between the two "R"s.
* The Jewish Banksters had raped and pillaged the German economy (a familiar meme) and Hitler was accepted and loved by the Bourgeoisie as their "saviour".
* The US backed the Nazis as part of Rockefeller's scheme to eliminate debt and control of the House of Rothschild.
* That this cold war, continued by the two "R"s was ages old and at its roots; the continuation of a war between off world influences that manifested on earth initially as a holy war between Christians and Jews, but post war (II), became a Zionist campaign against Islam (another column of influence off world) as the two houses merged into one after a treatise between the two off world races. The coined phrase "war to end all wars" referred to the aeons old battle, not earthly conflict.

When my sixteen year old brain heard this story I was convinced that my stepfather was mad. He went on to explain his involvement in anti gravity experiments....I tuned out and went to the mall. Shame on me.

[araucaria]

We do have to always bear in mind that most history books are written by the victors.
I’m afraid I don’t entirely agree with the notion that the victors write the history books. This is obviously true to some extent since warfare and such activities are intended to change an unsatisfactory current narrative, and if the narrative didn’t change, there would be a problem with that too. The victors get to write the first draft, along with the press, but it is notably the historians, wading through miles of archives, often after a thirty-year wait, who get to write later drafts and revise the narrative.

Imagine a just struggle, whatever form that might take – for example the struggle people like ourselves are engaged in for purposes of outlawing certain practices and making the world a better place to live in. When that struggle is won, we would not be happy if the defeated forces turned round on us and rewrote our history. It would be like scolding a child and seeing no change in its behaviour, which leads to escalation. This is what happened after World War I: the Germans decided they had not been defeated and started illicitly rearming for another bigger war.

We have to distinguish between the 3D reality in which things are being played out and the planning level where conspiracies are being fomented. These are truly different levels and I feel some of the knots we tie ourselves in are due to failing to keep the two apart. In their joint work on ‘psychophysical reality’, the depth psychologist CG Jung and the theoretical physicist Wolfgang Pauli distinguish between the metaphysical realm (the unus mundus) where matter/psyche/spirit are in an indeterminate state of being or nonbeing, and the scientifically observable state of potential being: the quantum wave function which can collapse into actual being.

Historical research studies elements of actual being; contemporary planners and pundits look at potential being. ‘Conspiracy theory’, when it deserves a bad name, is metaphysical and unscientific (speculation), unless and until it deals with objects possessing potential being (theories) and ultimately actual being (facts). For example, negationism relies on the absence of evidence. When evidence is forthcoming, it is always deemed insufficient, and maybe more evidence is not forthcoming (these guys covered their tracks). Negationism fills that gap. I can (and maybe will) give examples of this.

This Hitler rehabilitation campaign is more of the same. He never mentioned the ‘Final Solution’, so allegedly it cannot exist (a secret cannot exist until it is no longer a secret). Conversely, in the episode of the video that I watched (n° 25 – the whole video is not available in my country), credence is asked for things he reportedly said to subordinates. Where’s the evidence for that? Basically, in the terms of the above, what Hitler did was to force a passage from the metaphysical indeterminate being/nonbeing (the occult, where lies the ambiguity of good and evil) into potential being (his ‘treatise’ Mein Kampf), all the way into actual being (the war, generally recognized as evil). What the researcher on the other hand must do is exactly the opposite: he must backtrack from the known facts (some of which of course he may himself establish), and apply the empirical science of potential being in order to unmask the occult source of the 3D reality. You cannot work forward from an unknown; you can only work back from a known.

Coming back to the idea that the victors write the history books, Churchill literally did that with the six volumes of his The Second World War, while Hitler only got to write his blueprint. The status of the two documents differs only with respect to time – one is a statement of intent, the other a statement of claimed achievements. Otherwise, they are both ambiguous: as physical objects (books), they belong to the actual; as mental objects (complex thoughts), their content is merely potential, meaning that their actuality needs to be assessed by observing their adequacy as descriptions of the reality of the war. This means looking at the 3D reality war leaders, as opposed to the metaphysical Churchill/Hitler acting in an indeterminate realm as someone’s puppet; in other words, it means taking them at face value.

My daughter once read Mein Kampf from cover to cover in search of possible redeeming qualities: she found none. If Hitler had any good intentions that he wished to achieve, this is where he could have set them out. This failure of his own to tell the ‘greatest story never told’ suggests that any later good intentions that subsequently come to light are an attempt at rewriting history. It also suggests that Churchill’s serious critique of this work is largely correct, just as his turning his words into action against its author in the theatre of war is largely justified – at least within the context of a society that settles its differences in this manner. The causes of war have nothing to do with things that leaders confide to their subordinates, and have everything to do with the things that they say or write that can be heard or read by the other side. If there is a discrepancy between the two, then you cannot claim on the basis of your private comments that the war provoked by your public views is unjust. That would be a crazy kind of inverted hypocrisy.

Here is Churchill’s description of the importance of Mein Kampf, followed by the analysis that is the basis of Britain’s declaration of war (Volume I, The Gathering Storm, p.43-5).


… Mein Kampf, a treatise on his political philosophy inscribed to the dead of the recent Putsch. When eventually he came to power there was no book which deserved more careful study from the rulers, political and military, of the Allied Powers. All was there – the programme of German resurrection; the technique of party propaganda; the plan for combating Marxism; the concept of a National-Socialist State; the rightful position of Germany at the summit of the world. Here was the new Koran of faith and war: turgid, verbose, shapeless, but pregnant with its message.

The main thesis of Mein Kampf is simple. Man is a fighting animal, therefore the nation, being a community of fighters, is a fighting unit. Any living organism which ceases to fight for its existence is doomed to extinction. A country or race which ceases to fight is equally doomed. The fighting capacity of a race depends on its purity. Hence the need for ridding it of its foreign defilements. The Jewish race, owing to its universality, is of necessity pacifist and internationalist. Pacifism is the deadliest sin; for it means the surrender of the race in the fight for existence. The first duty of every country is therefore to nationalise the masses; intelligence in the case of the individual is not of first importance; will and determination are the prime qualities. The individual who is born to command is more valuable than countless thousands of subordinate natures. Only brute force can ensure the survival of the race; hence the necessity for military forms. The race must fight; a race that rests must rust and perish. Had the German race been united in good time, it would have been already master of the globe. The new Reich must gather within its fold all the scattered German elements in Europe. A race which has suffered defeat can be rescued by restoring its self-confidence. Above all things the army must be taught to believe in its own invincibility. To restore the German nation the people must be convinced that the recovery of freedom by force of arms is possible. The aristocratic principle is fundamentally sound. Intellectualism is undesirable. The ultimate aim of education is to produce a German who can be converted with the minimum of training into a soldier. The greatest upheavals in history would have been unthinkable had it not been for the driving force of fanatical and hysterical passions. Nothing could have been effected by the bourgeois virtues of peace and order. The world is now moving towards such an upheaval, and the new German State must see to it that the race is ready for the last and greatest decisions on this earth.

Foreign policy may be unscrupulous. It is not the task of diplomacy to allow a nation to founder heroically, but rather to see that it can prosper and survive. England and Italy are the two only possible allies for Germany. No country will enter into an alliance with a cowardly pacifist State run by democrats and Marxists. So long as Germany does not fend for herself, nobody will fend for her. Her lost provinces cannot be regained by solemn appeals to Heaven or by pious hopes in the League of Nations, but only by force of arms. Germany must not repeat the mistake of fighting all her enemies at once. She must single out the most dangerous and attack him with all her forces. The world will only cease to be anti-German when Germany recovers equality of rights and resumes her place in the sun. There must be no sentimentality about Germany’s foreign policy. To attack France for purely sentimental reasons would be foolish. What Germany needs is increase of territory in Europe. Germany’s pre-war colonial policy was a mistake and should be abandoned. Germany must look for expansion to Russia and especially to the Baltic States. No alliance with Russia can be tolerated. To wage war together with Russia against the West would be criminal, for the aim of the Soviets is the triumph of international Judaism.
Such were the “granite pillars” of his policy.

[Tangri]

I believe with IMHO Hitler Story was heavily tailored during and after WW2. And strong suppression is going on , to silence any opposite/alternate version . A wise man must think who is benefiting from these stories, and who still has power to silence any resistance. Then you can be prone to understand why WW2 occurred.
PS: also you can ask your self why USA and other western country's political candidates have to visit Israel before getting elected.

[sigma6]

How Hitler Defied The Bankers
http://www.radicalpress.com/?p=1389

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k188/ArthurTopham/BreadLineInflation700copy.jpg


Many people take joy in saying Wall Street and Jewish bankers “financed Hitler.” There is plenty of documented evidence that Wall Street and Jewish bankers did indeed help finance Hitler at first, partly because it allowed the bankers to get rich (as I will describe below) and partly in order to control Stalin. However, when Germany broke free from the bankers, the bankers declared a world war against Germany...

...Germany had no choice but to succumb to debt slavery under international (mainly Jewish) bankers until 1933, when the National Socialists came to power. At that point the German government thwarted the international banking cartels by issuing its own money. World Jewry responded by declaring a global boycott against Germany.

Hitler began a national credit program by devising a plan of public works that included flood control, repair of public buildings and private residences, and construction of new roads, bridges, canals, and port facilities. All these were paid for with money that no longer came from the private international bankers.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k188/ArthurTopham/NSAutoBahn700.jpg


The projected cost of these various programs was fixed at one billion units of the national currency. To pay for this, the German government (not the international bankers) issued bills of exchange, called Labor Treasury Certificates. In this way the National Socialists put millions of people to work, and paid them with Treasury Certificates.

Under the National Socialists, Germany’s money wasn’t backed by gold (which was owned by the international bankers). It was essentially a receipt for labor and materials delivered to the government. Hitler said, “For every mark issued, we required the equivalent of a mark’s worth of work done, or goods produced.”

The government paid workers in Certificates. Workers spent those Certificates on other goods and services, thus creating more jobs for more people. In this way the German people climbed out of the crushing debt imposed on them by the international bankers.


http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k188/ArthurTopham/AHYouth.jpg

[Patrikas]

I searched the forum to see if this had been posted before it didnt come up with anything so here is the link this is quite a long series 27 parts


Since the mid-20th century, the world has only ever heard one side of an incredible story. The story of a boy from an ordinary family whose ambition it was to become an artist, but who instead became a drifter.

His destiny however was not to drift into the awaiting oblivion, but to rise to the greatest heights of power, eventually to become one of the most influential men who ever lived.

Now for the first time, here is a documented account of a story many believe to be…

The Greatest Story NEVER Told!


Learn the untold story about the most reviled man in history. Adolf Hitler, The Greatest Story Never Told is a 6-hour Documentary by TruthWillOut Films.

This ground-breaking documentary chronicles the rise of Germany from defeat in World War I, to communist attempts to take over Germany; hyperinflation during the Weimar Republic, widespread unemployment and misery, and Adolf Hitler’s rise to power.

It also reveals a personal side of Adolf Hitler: who he was, his family background, his artwork and struggles in Vienna and what motivated him to come to power.

There’s so much hidden history to recount; FDR Pearl Harbor conspiracy, Soviet brutality, betrayal and treachery on all sides. Do we really know the true cost of war? Do we really possess all the facts?

Watch this series and uncover the real root causes of World War II. Do your own research and decide what you choose to believe. Think differently.

Vimeo and youtube have banned this video worldwide it is hosted here

http://thegreateststorynevertold.tv/

[ghostrider]

Hitler was a genius , supposed to help humanity but , through the influence of the Syrian creator overlords he was corrupted by the thule society ... the plejaren say the attack on pearl harbor was allowed to happen so the U.S. could test it's A bomb on real targets ... The Syrian creator overlords known as the Giza Intelligences are responsible for most of the evil trickery and causes for war on earth ...

[InnoSent]

They never made a good movie about Hitler. Probably because the major Hollywood companies are mainly Jewish entities...

Can you imagine that...

http://i58.tinypic.com/2jb15de.png

:o

...Honestly though

Some people say Hitler was an actor and Prescott Busch was the real Fuhrer. Idk about that. If you watch tapes of him, he looks like he doesn't speak a lick of German but...

TnHnjmCYjy4:cool:

[Kryztian]

There was a thread about this series in August:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?73981-Red-Ice-Radio-Dennis-Wise-Hour-1-Adolf-Hitler-The-Greatest-Story-Never-Told

While I found it interesting and it did help me rethink the history, I think the people who made it are indeed white supremacist fascists, although this did not become apparent until near the end, when they were speculating about what life would be like if Hitler had one. They showed images of a gay wedding and interracial couples (very uncomplementary ones) and said "there would be none of this".

Not sure if I can trust all of the information presented. Some of the ideas presented are based are commonly accepted historical facts. Some of the "facts", like the Leuchtner findings are pretty debatable.

Thanks being said, if you have a critical mind, I still recommend watching it.

BTW, 99% of the comments lefts left on the previous thread are by people who hadn't yet watched the 6 hours video.

[Atlas]

---------

Threads merged.

[LEGOWehrmacht]

Well Hitler was a Rothschild and the Rothschild's are owned by the Vatican,

The Jesuits run the whole game,

[LEGOWehrmacht]

LoungeLizard

Can you envisage the majority of historians publishing about the Holocaust, being wrong about the Holocaust?
Wrong, as in their main premise being incorrect..?

The thing about Holocaust denial is, if no-one ever mentioned it, no-one would ever know about it and it would be something a few distant academics are getting to the bottom of somewhere.
Make it illegal and suddenly its a massive issue, predictable.
Either its a link in a long chain of re-buildings of an antiquated philosophy leading to racism or,,, it's the truth..? Which one? Well idk but I wouldn't have even thought altering the story is anything to do with hate.

[Noelle]

Here is a brief but interesting article (http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/blink/explore/the-evolution-of-radio-and-the-rise-of-hitler/article9790868.ece) published by The Hindu Business Line. It discusses a link between the evolution of radio, as a way to communicate messages and as part of the electromagnetic frequency, and Hitler's rise to power.

Two interesting quotes from the article:

1) "The fascist alliance of Berlin and Rome lay on a nearly vertical longitude of the Earth, around which Europe could “revolve”, resulting in their uncanny name — the Axis Powers. The raised right arm of the Nazi salute was a magnetic needle pointing at the Führer; it made the new vector field of geopolitical power visible to everyone."

2) "... technology chooses the man who will be its vehicle by creating the circumstances for it, and not the man who chooses the technology. The universe does not care whether its forces are employed by a Hitler or Gandhi, as long as they achieve their own machinic potential."

[Cidersomerset]

I have not visited Hitler for a while and since the claim he was still alive and well
in South America came up in the JFK docs release I thought I'd better post them..


Hunting Hitler: What The JFK Papers Revealed

tgkklVQa3SE
Published on 30 Oct 2017
Tim Kenndy, host of Hunting Hitler on the History Channel, joins Alex Jones
live in studio to break down some of the JFK files that reveal Hitler was alive
and living in Argentina after World War II.


Does This Prove That Nazis Fled To Argentina?

1SMLfqtWxNY
Published on 30 Oct 2017...Info Wars....
Alex Jones talks with former Army Ranger and now host of Hunting Hitler, Tim
Kennedy about what we can expect to see in the next season.





==================================================
==================================================

JFK FILES SHOCKER: Hitler Escaped Germany, Lived 10+ Years

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tUCQrL66WI

Streamed live 2 hours ago
JFK Files: Hitler was alive until at least 1955... and the American intelligence
community knew!
http://fulcrumnews.com

https://i.imgur.com/vsgWIoy.png

https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1583951

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/weird-news/655755/Nazi-Conspiracy-Adolf-Hitler-Alive-Argentina-CIA-Files-Open-Declassified-World-War-2-Reich

===================================================
===================================================

This is from a older documentary....

CONSPIRACY FACT ::: HITLER IN ARGENTINA til 65' ( JFK files)

GGzNdN9t8uI

Published on 29 Oct 2017

[Cidersomerset]

There has been very little about this in the mainstream other than mocking Alex...

JFK Files Say Hitler Was Still Alive In 55, Not Infowars

0rbcfcRrmxw

Published on 3 Nov 2017
Alex Jones disproves the Media Matters smear that Infowars invented
the theory that Adolf Hitler survived WWII in South America when this
notion came straight out of the CIA and FBI.

[Cidersomerset]

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/3.21.31/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

Auschwitz inmate's notes from hell finally revealed

By Laurence Peter
BBC News..1 December 2017

https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/12BFB/production/_98959767_manuscript_comp_1.jpg
A page of Nadjari's faded notes processed (L to R) in red, green and blue light

Chilling testimony from an Auschwitz inmate forced to help the Nazi murder
squads has finally been deciphered, thanks to painstaking detective work
and digital imaging.

On scraps of notepaper Marcel Nadjari, a Greek Jew, described how thousands of
Jews were herded into the gas chambers daily. He saw them "packed in like sardines".
In 1944, the 26-year-old was burning with a desire for revenge. He had heard from
fellow Greek Jews that his mother, father and sister Nelli had died at Auschwitz-
Birkenau camp, in Nazi-occupied southern Poland, the year before.

"Often I thought of going in with the others, to put an end to this. But always revenge
prevented me doing so. I wanted and want to live, to avenge the death of Dad, Mum
and my dear little sister," he wrote.

He was among about 2,200 members of the Sonderkommando - Jewish slaves of the
SS who had to escort fellow Jews to the gas chambers. Then they had to burn the bodies,
collect gold fillings and women's hair, and throw the ashes into a nearby river.

read more.....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42144186

[Cidersomerset]

This is a very interesting discussion.....


HARRY COOPER: THE 4TH REICH & AUTHOR OF "HITLER IN ARGENTINA" STILL ALIVE AFTER WWII

Project Camelot

jL7FceK0kdg

Streamed live on 1 Dec 2017
I will be interviewing Harry Cooper on Friday December 1st at 1pm PT.
Harry Cooper served for 4 years in the U.S. Air Force and 12 years Coast
Guard (Aux.) and was a Flotilla Commander.

He has written 21 books and we talk about his bestselling book "HITLER IN
ARGENTINA" with documented evidence that Hitler was still alive long after WWII.

Short bio written by Harry Cooper:

"I am the world's foremost expert on the history of the German U-Boats and
now also on the escape of Adolf Hitler. Unlike other researcher/writers who
read a few documents and other people's books to produce their own book,
which are almost always just their theories without proof or substance - I
read the documents then I go where the history was made. I go to Germany
and Austria on average two times each year since 1988 and have been to
South America nine times in the past eight years where I take photos of these
historic places and interview people who were there and give me first-hand
information. I have just been contacted by a major television production
company in Buenos Aires who will fly me down there to do a documentary on
the tragic loss of the submarine ARA SAN JUAN and I have another fact-finding
expedition scheduled in March 2018 to Argentina, Uruguay, Brazil and Paraguay.
We are peeling back the layers like onion skin - peel back one layer and another
is there with questions waiting to be answered.

Our biggest advantage lies in the fact that we have several thousand Members in
77 countries and many are active or retired Intel people. They are my eyes and
ears in various locations to lay the groundwork and take me to the people who
have the first-hand history."

For more info go to http://www.sharkhunters.com then to PREVIOUS TOURS.
There are thousands of photos and explanations of this research.

KERRY CASSIDY
PROJECT CAMELOT TV
http://projectcamelot.tv

[Didgevillage]

The so-called "Holocaust" was fabricated in America in 1950s, including the fake Diary of Anne Frank. I was at the Jewish Museum in Moscow (I highly recommend you pay a visit. Just a stone's throw from the synagogue. A great place to learn the history of Jews, with low-tech exhibitions and high-tech shows), but there was no mention of "Holocaust." Instead there were records of killings of Jews by Slavs during WWII because Slavs hated the Jews.

[Bill Ryan]

...including the fake Diary of Anne Frank.

You see here's the problem in the way you're presenting yourself — and why you're just not making many friends here. (Whether you care about that or not!)

You state that the Diary of Anne Frank is fake. Flatly, as if it was a fact, and you know best.

But it's not an agreed fact. Far from it. Claims by some that it was faked, as best I know, have been largely debunked (https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/af2-diary-authentic). This is an interesting topic, worthy of a thread in itself, but YOU CAN'T STATE THINGS ARE FACT JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE AN OPINION.

At least, quote references. That's the way discussion works. Then, if you're right, others can learn.

Over and over again, though, you don't seem to be interested in discussion.

You only seem to be interested in stating your opinions on a take-it-or-leave-it basis. But why?

Whether you're correct or not about anything you say, that just doesn't work pragmatically. All you're likely to do is alienate people, because you come over as being arrogant. That's a poor strategy for a teacher.

You may have the inner satisfaction of 'being right'... but that's of zero practical use if no-one listens.

You just get to be right, and alone.

[Didgevillage]

Fact: There is a museum in Amsterdam, Holland, carrying the name Anne Frank.
https://www.annefrank.org/en/

Fact: There is a secret door to the hideout inside.
But Anne Frank wrote in the diary in question that such door was taken down.

Fact: There is a big diary in a glass case in display, closed and not showing the content.
But her father said there were scattered sheets of paper (on which Anne supposedly wrote her thoughts and records) on the floor when he returned to the house in Amsterdam after WWII.

Fact: Otto Frank was in Auschwitz.
Was he gassed because he was Jewish? No, he was in a hospital in Auschwitz.

Fact: The diary is written in ball-point pen.
Fact: There are translation errors. (Not from Dutch to English, but the errors were made in translating from English to Dutch)
Fact: The diary is written in adult hand-writing in Dutch using perfect grammar for a 12-year old

And so on

---
postscript
There was a lawsuit between Otto Frank and a script writer (???) but the case was settled happily out of court in New York.

For the thinking public:
https://konigbooks.uk/blogs/news/anne-frank-diaries-fraud-by-otto-frank

[Kryztian]

The so-called "Holocaust" was fabricated in America in 1950s, including the fake Diary of Anne Frank.

Wow!

My grandfather, a German citizen of Polish parents was a construction worker and during 1940's was stationed in Warsaw in 1943 where he bulldozed the Jewish ghettos as he was ordered to do. When he came back to Germany, he would tell friends what he did and asked “And where did all those people go to?” at which point my grandmother ordered him to shut up because they would get in trouble. When the war ended and most people were busy getting their lives back together and not looking at the past, my grandfather, not a highly educated man, was one of the first to seek out the truth of what happened to Germany’s thriving Jewish population that had almost completely disappeared..


https://i.imgur.com/96DoXmw.jpg
My grandfather, Peter Peplinski, in the early 1940s.

My mother’s best friend lost her entirely family except for her sister. The two of them were adopted by a Polish family that hid them for a while in large sauerkraut barrels while the Nazis were combing their villages. They eventually came to the U.S. and were adopted by a Jewish family. In the late 1980's she returned to Poland to meet the children of the family that saved her and was able to help them financially when the economy collapsed as Poland transitioned out of communism.




https://i.imgur.com/jEn2fso.jpg
My mother, Elisabeth Peplinski, in the early 1940s.
While she was going to Hitler Youth meetings, the woman
who would become her best friend 20 years later was
hiding from the Nazis in a sauerkraut barrel, to escape
the fate of extermination that had befallen her family.

In college I made numerous friends with students who were Jewish. A number of them, when I asked about their extended families, they gave a sardonic laugh, and remarked how most of their family tree ended at places like Auschwitz, Treblinka and Buchenwald. For many of them, their parents and grandparents were people who barely made it out, and they would never talk to their children about the years of their lives in Germany, it was just too painful. Sometimes they were neurotic about the unpredictability of the future and seized every moment of the day like it was their last, or they were angry, reclusive and mistrustful of the world. When I entered the work place I met one German-Jewish man and tried to engage him in the language of his birth. He wouldn’t respond. He had refused to speak the language of the people who had enacted so much horror. In a hot unair-conditioned bus station I encountered an older woman who briefly rolled up her long sleeved blouse in the heat as I noticed numbers tattooed on her arm. She caught me staring at her arm and immediately rolled down her sleeves. Our eyes met briefly and then we both looked away, too ashamed to confront the ugliness that had befallen her.


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

On a number of threads you either blame Jewish people for what is wrong with the world or insist that certain individuals are problematic in the world are “crypto-Jews”, including Bill and Hillary Clinton, Antonin Scalia, and George W. Bush. When I asked you about Scalia, you cited a podcast of Texe Marrs, and I did listen to it.


Here's Texe Marrs talking about Scalia's (Jewish gentile) death.
Go to 20:00
http://remnantradio.org/Archives/audio/TM2016/Texe%20Marrs%20-%201016%20-%20Secrets%20(Volume%20234).mp3

Marrs also indicates that the Pope (who at the time was in northern Mexico somewhere) could well have been there too.

I have to say I’ve listened to thousands of podcasts and youtube videos in my time presenting all sorts of controversial and unorthodox ideas (most relating to conspiracy and the paranormal) and all of them exemplify different levels of research, critical analysis, and eloquence, some better than others, but this one, is definitely at the very bottom of the list. Texe Marrs makes the argument that Scalia is a “crypto-Jew” because Scalia openly referenced the Talmud as one basis for our legal system.

https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/images/politics/graphics/scotus3.jpg?resize=716,138

If you go to the Supreme Court, you will find a frieze which includes many of the important figures in the historical development of the law, including Menes, Hammurabi,, Lycurgus, Confucius, Justinian, Muhammad, Charlemagne, King John of England, Napoleon and Moses and King Solomon. Knowing Jewish law as well as the laws of these other traditions is only showing that he is versed in the history of law, as anyone who is expected to write the nations most important decisions should be. If reading and referring to the Talmud makes one Jewish, than I, a Roman Catholic am not only Jewish, but also Hindu, Shingon Buddhist, Christian Scientist, Scientologist, Lutheran, Swedenborgian, and am only one Koran reading away from being a “crypto-Moslem” is your unique way of classifying people.

The other allegation that Pope Francis was present at the ranch where Scalia was (at an imaginary pedophillia fest - not enough time and energy to debunk the lunatic logic of Mr. Texe Marr in one post) is absurd and ridiculous. Francis did visit Ciudad Juarez, a hundred miles a way on from the ranch on the other side of the border. Absolutely no evidence that he crossed the border or any evidence presented by Mr. Marrs to prove he did so or had reason to. Not only that, but Mr. Marrs should have done a little research about the dates too. Antonin Scalia died on the 13th of February, 2016. At that time, the Pope was still in Mexico City, about a thousand miles away, and would travel to three other cities before he hit Ciudad Juarez on February 17th. So, if the Pope was at the ranch, he not only amazing was able to get over the border into Texas unnoticed, but must also be a time traveler to have reached the ranch before the time of Scalia’s death.


https://i.imgur.com/VmXLAaz.jpg

It might sound as though I were leaving out some important ideas of Mr. Marrs or over simplifying them. To the best of my knowledge, I am reproducing his shallow and empty argument to the best of my ability but please check the link above if I have missed anything and I will make a correction.


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

In people who gravitate towards ideas like the Flat Earth Theory, there is a special kind of stupid that leads one to ignore reason and critical thinking and get sucked into vacuous ideas and proclaim them loudly and arrogantly. In people who gravitate towards ideas that certain racial or religious groups, are the entire source of the world’s problems, either openly or covertly, there is a special kind of ugliness. But here in your posts, we see the intersection of the two: extreme stupidity and extreme ugliness. Why the mods of Project Avalon can not tolerate Flat Earthers as much as they tolerate you is beyond me.

Bill you asked to go back to the topic, and I am sorry to interrupt a thread that has some intelligent posts. I would suggest moving my post and yours and Didge’s “Anne Frank” post to a new thread, where Didge can now have the opportunity to tell us, using critical thought, in his own words:


How Anne Frank’s diary was faked.

How George W. Bush and Bill and Hillary Clinton are crypto-Jews.

How we can prove that Pope Francis was present at Antonin Scalias death, and how we know with certainly there were pedophilic acts taking place.


If you are unable to do this Didge in a way that impresses us with intelligence and insight, it is time for you to leave this community. It is time for you to stop disrupting our post with your two lines of arrogance of how “the Jews did it.” It is time for you to stop derailing threads with your Jew-baiting comments. It is time for you to shut up and listen to what others have to say and to start using critical thinking. And it is time for Project Avalon to stop waiting for that to happen because you have already wasted enough of our time and energy.

[Didgevillage]

My mother’s best friend lost her entirely family except for her sister.


I'm sorry to hear that. But don't 100,000 German women and children who were burned alive in Dresden count?
And in many other cities?

Germans were eager to send Jews to Palestine, but the British were against it, because many Jews were pro-German and were afraid that a new Jewish state will be a replica of Nazi Germany, which it is.



When I asked you about Scalia, you cited a podcast of Texe Marrs, and I did listen to it.

I'm glad you did. You didn't mention what your thoughts were.


http://remnantradio.org/Archives/audio/TM2016/Texe%20Marrs%20-%201016%20-%20Secrets%20(Volume%20234).mp3

Marrs also indicates that the Pope (who at the time was in northern Mexico somewhere) could well have been there too. That's based on his information and I'm not privy to all of his sources.



In people who gravitate towards ideas like the Flat Earth Theory, there is a special kind of stupid that leads one to ignore reason and critical thinking and get sucked into vacuous ideas and proclaim them loudly and arrogantly.

I'm with you on that. But I have to respond to questions thrown at me.

[1]How Anne Frank’s diary was faked.
I answered that on the other thread. I refrained from writing on this thread (My post has been moved) because I knew I get viciously attacked if I wrote on Hitler and the Jewish origin of the Nazi Party.

[2]How George W. Bush and Bill and Hillary Clinton are crypto-Jews.

http://www.texemarrs.com/022006/george_w_bush_zionist_double_agent.htm
https://jewishjournal.com/opinion/134042/when-bill-and-hillary-clinton-turn-to-judaism/ Just one of many.

[3]How we can prove that Pope Francis was present at Antonin Scalias death, and how we know with certainly there were pedophilic acts taking place.

I already answered that.

[Kryztian]

My mother’s best friend lost her entirely family except for her sister.


I'm sorry to hear that. But don't 100,000 German women and children who were burned alive in Dresden count?
And in many other cities?

WTF do the people have died in Dresden have to do with the denial Holocaust? Dresden was a tremendous horror - how does it legitimize the horror enacted again Jewish people like my mother's friend? I recounted here a tremendous loss of life, tremendous trauma and tremendous damage passed down to the next generation of people still alive today, all of which, in your arrogance and ignorance you are denying ever happened. The Holocaust is not only well confirmed by research and evidence, in my own life it is confirmed by well documented and personal accounts of many survivors I know well. For you to continue to deny the validity of these stories is a great demonstration about how the simple-mindedness and dark-heartedness that has driven genocides and cultural destruction through centuries is still alive and unwell.




When I asked you about Scalia, you cited a podcast of Texe Marrs, and I did listen to it.

I'm glad you did. You didn't mention what your thoughts were.


You obviously didn't read my response above where I analyzed it in detail. If you can't figure out what I was saying about it, here's the seven word summary: it is a large pile of excrement.



Marrs also indicates that the Pope (who at the time was in northern Mexico somewhere) could well have been there too. That's based on his information and I'm not privy to all of his sources.

The private information thing makes this sound like the Corey Goode story. Were there blue chickens involved? Did the pope get to the Texas ranch in time for Scalia's death via the 20 and back program?



[1]How Anne Frank’s diary was faked.
I answered that on the other thread. I refrained from writing on this thread (My post has been moved) because I knew I get viciously attacked if I wrote on Hitler and the Jewish origin of the Nazi Party.


No, you just posted a list of absurdities with the word "FACT" before each one, as if you were communicating something intelligent. A trained parrot could make a better case for Holocaust denial than you.



[2]How George W. Bush and Bill and Hillary Clinton are crypto-Jews.

http://www.texemarrs.com/022006/george_w_bush_zionist_double_agent.htm


That's not an answer. That's a link. I already spent much time listening to the last Texe Marr broadcast you sent and I thoughtfully analyed it as garbage. You didn't acknowledge any of what I wrote or comment on it. I am not going back into the cesspool of Texe Marr land again.


[3]How we can prove that Pope Francis was present at Antonin Scalias death, and how we know with certainly there were pedophilic acts taking place.

I already answered that.

No you didn't. You just posted links and insisted that we trust a raving loon-brained dimwit who claims he has inside information.



I knew I get viciously attacked if I wrote on Hitler and the Jewish origin of the Nazi Party.

Are you getting viciously attacked now? Is it a Jewish Illuminati conspiracy to ask you to make more than dogmatic statements and suffer because people question them or write rebuttals to them? Is the PC police hurting your tender and delicate as you enact your first amendment constitutional right to shït upon those people who were exterminated in the Holocaust? Oh, I forgot, the Holocaust is a 1950s fabrication. So did all those people that I mentioned hallucinate there experiences they told me about, or are they Illuminati spies? Or maybe I am one?

It's time for you to move on. I have no idea what your actual age is, but you have the critical thinking skills of an 11 year old. It's time to embrace critical thinking, the kind of thinking where you look at information and data without unquestionable suppositions like "every word in the Bible is literally true" or "the Jews are the source of all evil on Earth." And it time for you to take responsibility for your words and not feign some melodramatic victim-hood if people question them. And it's time for you to leave Avalon. You've detracted too many people having meaningful discussions with your babble.

[Bill Ryan]

Moderator note from Bill: I moved the most recent posts above to this dormant 2014 thread, which is at once both highly controversial and actually very interesting.

Not surprisingly, the original documentary video with the same title as the thread has been long since taken down by YouTube. However, it's here in the Avalon Library. For anyone with 6 hours to spare, it presents a detailed and documented revisionist view of some of the key events of World War II.


Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story Never Told (5 hrs 50 mins, 1.2 Gb)
http://avalonlibrary.net/Adolf_Hitler_The_Greatest_Story_Never_Told.mp4

[AutumnW]

Nice to see the raging anti-Semite is gone. It's one thing to criticize current Israeli government and foreign policy and another to deny the Holocaust and all the very real persecutions the Jews have been through.

As for Hitler, I watched that documentary and its very compelling. It makes sense that some arrangement was worked out with allies ahead of time to spirit him out of the country as a condition of surrender. Did they find Eva Braun's body? I can't remember. I think they did.

[Kryztian]

"The Greatest Story Never Told" is also available on this website. https://thegreateststorynevertold.tv/
You can watch it episode by episode - 27 of them in all, over 5 hours.

I did watched the first 24 and didn't have the stomach to finish. Basically, they started with a brilliant argument, but as the series progressed, their arguments got progressively weaker and more questionable. It started by showing how Great Britains foreign policy after World War I, which treated Germany like it a colonial state, led to the creation of Hitler. Some of the later data is the video, such as the claims of Leuchtner that the camps never had gas chambers, were much more questionable - I can't say that I have a definitive opinion on this matter yet.

Episode 24 really shows you who is behind the video - it basically says, if Hitler had won, we would not have to put up with .... what follows is a photo montage that shows pictures of interracial and same sex couples, mixed with photos of people rioting and urinating on public monuments. Make no mistake, this series is the work of fascist white supremacists.

[AutumnW]

"The Greatest Story Never Told" is also available on this website. https://thegreateststorynevertold.tv/
You can watch it episode by episode - 27 of them in all, over 5 hours.

I did watched the first 24 and didn't have the stomach to finish. Basically, they started with a brilliant argument, but as the series progressed, their arguments got progressively weaker and more questionable. It started by showing how Great Britains foreign policy after World War I, which treated Germany like it a colonial state, led to the creation of Hitler. Some of the later data is the video, such as the claims of Leuchtner that the camps never had gas chambers, were much more questionable - I can't say that I have a definitive opinion on this matter yet.

Episode 24 really shows you who is behind the video - it basically says, if Hitler had won, we would not have to put up with .... what follows is a photo montage that shows pictures of interracial and same sex couples, mixed with photos of people rioting and urinating on public monuments. Make no mistake, this series is the work of fascist white supremacists.

K, I must have watched a different documentary. Any video questioning the holocaust should be disregarded. Imho the more interracial marriage the better too. It seems to me that whenever white people agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them. Pink, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning.

[AriG]

"The Greatest Story Never Told" is also available on this website. https://thegreateststorynevertold.tv/
You can watch it episode by episode - 27 of them in all, over 5 hours.

I did watched the first 24 and didn't have the stomach to finish. Basically, they started with a brilliant argument, but as the series progressed, their arguments got progressively weaker and more questionable. It started by showing how Great Britains foreign policy after World War I, which treated Germany like it a colonial state, led to the creation of Hitler. Some of the later data is the video, such as the claims of Leuchtner that the camps never had gas chambers, were much more questionable - I can't say that I have a definitive opinion on this matter yet.

Episode 24 really shows you who is behind the video - it basically says, if Hitler had won, we would not have to put up with .... what follows is a photo montage that shows pictures of interracial and same sex couples, mixed with photos of people rioting and urinating on public monuments. Make no mistake, this series is the work of fascist white supremacists.

K, I must have watched a different documentary. Any video questioning the holocaust should be disregarded. Imho the more interracial marriage the better too. It seems to me that whenever white people agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them. Pink, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning.

Autumn,

Your comments about “white people@ are racist and disgusting. And factually incorrect.

[Flash]

"The Greatest Story Never Told" is also available on this website. https://thegreateststorynevertold.tv/
You can watch it episode by episode - 27 of them in all, over 5 hours.

I did watched the first 24 and didn't have the stomach to finish. Basically, they started with a brilliant argument, but as the series progressed, their arguments got progressively weaker and more questionable. It started by showing how Great Britains foreign policy after World War I, which treated Germany like it a colonial state, led to the creation of Hitler. Some of the later data is the video, such as the claims of Leuchtner that the camps never had gas chambers, were much more questionable - I can't say that I have a definitive opinion on this matter yet.

Episode 24 really shows you who is behind the video - it basically says, if Hitler had won, we would not have to put up with .... what follows is a photo montage that shows pictures of interracial and same sex couples, mixed with photos of people rioting and urinating on public monuments. Make no mistake, this series is the work of fascist white supremacists.

K, I must have watched a different documentary. Any video questioning the holocaust should be disregarded. Imho the more interracial marriage the better too. It seems to me that whenever white people agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them. Pink, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning.

Autumn,

Your comments about “white people@ are racist and disgusting. And factually incorrect.

Yes those comments Autumn are disgusting and literally it is perfect reverse racism.

I do not care if you are black, yellow, red, white, whatever, but you seem to care aren' t you? I do not know what you would say if I were writing similar comments on your family or your race (because I do not know what it is, and frankly, I do not care).

I think this is worth a public apology.

---------

Gosh Avalon is starting to be gross. What is going on people?

I don't post on facebook because the comments are so rude, uneducated, Facebook is leveling people from the bottom, no up there.

It seems that some Avalon users are transporting the attitude they have on facebook and twitter and instagram here on Avalon. Unacceptable.

[Kryztian]

Any video questioning the holocaust should be disregarded.

I think most of us here would disagree. Any book, lecture, video, presentation questioning any topic, any truth, can and should be taken seriously.

Also, this series questions a lot of things that deserve to be looked into: Who really caused the World War II? Was it just a series of events that took us into the war or was someone planning it? What reasons did Germany have to go into Poland? Where the counties that condemned Germany (USA, Britain, France) really morally superior? There are also some other good questions that have been addressed here on Avalon: Was the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust 6 million or was that number predetermined in the 1920s? Was the Holocaust story distorted and used as propaganda to dehumanize the Palestinian people and create the Isreali state?

Looking at these questions with an open mind and investigating them does not make you racist, or a lover or hater of Germans, Jews, White people or anyone else for that matter. The only thing we really need to love is truth, and to do that you need to been open to all questions and all possible answers.

[Praxis]

"The Greatest Story Never Told" is also available on this website. https://thegreateststorynevertold.tv/
You can watch it episode by episode - 27 of them in all, over 5 hours.

I did watched the first 24 and didn't have the stomach to finish. Basically, they started with a brilliant argument, but as the series progressed, their arguments got progressively weaker and more questionable. It started by showing how Great Britains foreign policy after World War I, which treated Germany like it a colonial state, led to the creation of Hitler. Some of the later data is the video, such as the claims of Leuchtner that the camps never had gas chambers, were much more questionable - I can't say that I have a definitive opinion on this matter yet.

Episode 24 really shows you who is behind the video - it basically says, if Hitler had won, we would not have to put up with .... what follows is a photo montage that shows pictures of interracial and same sex couples, mixed with photos of people rioting and urinating on public monuments. Make no mistake, this series is the work of fascist white supremacists.

K, I must have watched a different documentary. Any video questioning the holocaust should be disregarded. Imho the more interracial marriage the better too. It seems to me that whenever white people agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them. Pink, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning.

Autumn,

Your comments about “white people@ are racist and disgusting. And factually incorrect.

Yes those comments Autumn are disgusting and literally it is perfect reverse racism.

I do not care if you are black, yellow, red, white, whatever, but you seem to care aren' t you? I do not know what you would say if I were writing similar comments on your family or your race (because I do not know what it is, and frankly, I do not care).

I think this is worth a public apology.

---------

Gosh Avalon is starting to be gross. What is going on people?

I don't post on facebook because the comments are so rude, uneducated, Facebook is leveling people from the bottom, no up there.

It seems that some Avalon users are transporting the attitude they have on facebook and twitter and instagram here on Avalon. Unacceptable.

I dont want to speak for AutumnW but I took what they said, the bolded part, to be about the white people who agitate for genetic purity and NOT for all white people in general, since they mentioned that more interracial marriage is good.

And if that is the case, I would happen to agree. Generally, when you see people preaching about racial purity, they look like they could end up in places like r/beholdthemasterrace. I have made jibs at people on this forum making reference to the "14 words". Do you know what this is a reference to?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words

"We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children," or the less commonly used "Because the beauty of the White Aryan woman must not perish from the earth."

So if AutumnW is talking about people like David Lane (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lane_(white_supremacist)http://), david Duke (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Duke), or Tom Metzger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Metzger) then I agree with the characterization and would take issue with you defending the likes of these people openly.

This goes for any people preaching genetic purity.

A person belonging to racial category X getting mad at another person of racial category X for marrying/dating/having children with person of racial category Y is bigoted and stupid and hopefully one day will die off from the human species(sooner rather than later preferably).

What makes America great( from my perspective anyhow as an American) is that it doesnt matter your shape/color/size/belief system, if you can be on board for liberty, equality, and justice FOR ALL then you should live in America and be with like minded humans. I know this isnt in practice yet, but hopefully we will achieve it in my lifetime.

But if you think a person belonging to racial Category X or Religious system Z doesnt deserve the same rights as yourself, then I dont want to associate with you and I hope many others feel the same. I like to think that this board holds similar principles to that of Liberty Equality and Justice for all( probably adding something about Truth as well since this place is an archive of the search for knowledge on a great many subjects!) but I could be assuming too much. Given what I believe I know of Bill, I dont think I am too far off. But please do correct me on any thing I got wrong.

I hope many others, regardless of nationality, share my opinion about these things.

E Pluribus Unum

[AutumnW]

Thank you Praxis. I meant racial purity and I do deeply and publicly apologize to all the pink hairless bloated white supremacists for neglecting to mention that they likely have pimply asses too.

[AutumnW]

Kryztian, If you feel compelled to watch things that question the holocaust, up to suggesting it was a conspiracy by one class of Jews against another, feel free.

You might find something valuable. Maybe...but there is also a chance that others who do it, don't know how to think and it boils down to, "someone said something on YouTube that conflicts with the mainstream so it makes it automatically true." No thanks. Not for me.

Holocaust denial or minimizing (by carping on about the number of deaths) is a litmus test. It signals to me that there is a strong likelihood that the entire body of information is biassed Starts out sounding reasonable and then slowly step by step takes you down a weird alt right bigoted rabbit hate hole.

However, the whole Hitler was spirited out of the country sounds like it could be true. I've seen credible info on that subject. It makes logical sense.

[AutumnW]

"The Greatest Story Never Told" is also available on this website. https://thegreateststorynevertold.tv/
You can watch it episode by episode - 27 of them in all, over 5 hours.

I did watched the first 24 and didn't have the stomach to finish. Basically, they started with a brilliant argument, but as the series progressed, their arguments got progressively weaker and more questionable. It started by showing how Great Britains foreign policy after World War I, which treated Germany like it a colonial state, led to the creation of Hitler. Some of the later data is the video, such as the claims of Leuchtner that the camps never had gas chambers, were much more questionable - I can't say that I have a definitive opinion on this matter yet.

Episode 24 really shows you who is behind the video - it basically says, if Hitler had won, we would not have to put up with .... what follows is a photo montage that shows pictures of interracial and same sex couples, mixed with photos of people rioting and urinating on public monuments. Make no mistake, this series is the work of fascist white supremacists.

K, I must have watched a different documentary. Any video questioning the holocaust should be disregarded. Imho the more interracial marriage the better too. It seems to me that whenever white people agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them. Pink, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning.

Autumn,

Your comments about “white people@ are racist and disgusting. And factually incorrect.

Yes those comments Autumn are disgusting and literally it is perfect reverse racism.

I do not care if you are black, yellow, red, white, whatever, but you seem to care aren' t you? I do not know what you would say if I were writing similar comments on your family or your race (because I do not know what it is, and frankly, I do not care).

I think this is worth a public apology.

---------

Gosh Avalon is starting to be gross. What is going on people?

I don't post on facebook because the comments are so rude, uneducated, Facebook is leveling people from the bottom, no up there.

It seems that some Avalon users are transporting the attitude they have on facebook and twitter and instagram here on Avalon. Unacceptable.

But members slamming gays, transgender, immigrants bombed out of their own countries are not asked to publicly apologize. Members who minimize the plight of blacks are also not held up to this kind of scorn. That's a bit lopsided, don't you think? There's a great documentary on Netflix called, 'Alt Right,' You and ARiG should watch it.

[Flash]

"The Greatest Story Never Told" is also available on this website. https://thegreateststorynevertold.tv/
You can watch it episode by episode - 27 of them in all, over 5 hours.

I did watched the first 24 and didn't have the stomach to finish. Basically, they started with a brilliant argument, but as the series progressed, their arguments got progressively weaker and more questionable. It started by showing how Great Britains foreign policy after World War I, which treated Germany like it a colonial state, led to the creation of Hitler. Some of the later data is the video, such as the claims of Leuchtner that the camps never had gas chambers, were much more questionable - I can't say that I have a definitive opinion on this matter yet.

Episode 24 really shows you who is behind the video - it basically says, if Hitler had won, we would not have to put up with .... what follows is a photo montage that shows pictures of interracial and same sex couples, mixed with photos of people rioting and urinating on public monuments. Make no mistake, this series is the work of fascist white supremacists.

K, I must have watched a different documentary. Any video questioning the holocaust should be disregarded. Imho the more interracial marriage the better too. It seems to me that whenever white people agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them. Pink, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning.

Autumn,

Your comments about “white people@ are racist and disgusting. And factually incorrect.

Yes those comments Autumn are disgusting and literally it is perfect reverse racism.

I do not care if you are black, yellow, red, white, whatever, but you seem to care aren' t you? I do not know what you would say if I were writing similar comments on your family or your race (because I do not know what it is, and frankly, I do not care).

I think this is worth a public apology.

---------

Gosh Avalon is starting to be gross. What is going on people?

I don't post on facebook because the comments are so rude, uneducated, Facebook is leveling people from the bottom, no up there.

It seems that some Avalon users are transporting the attitude they have on facebook and twitter and instagram here on Avalon. Unacceptable.

But members slamming gays, transgender, immigrants bombed out of their own countries are not asked to publicly apologize. Members who minimize the plight of blacks are also not held up to this kind of scorn. That's a bit lopsided, don't you think? There's a great documentary on Netflix called, 'Alt Right,' You and ARiG should watch it.


that is not an excuse, be better than that.

Justifying your very racist comment with others do it for other kind of people is not a justification and is not an excuse.

Your comments are disgusting and very racist towards white people.

Just ask of to forgive, instead of telling us stupid stuff. Are you going to kills white if it comes to this kind of war???? Are you as bad as Dr Mengele?

It has nothing to do with minimizing the plight of black. Nothing. AND YOU KNOW IT. this comment is pure manipulation to make us swallow your racist comments.

It has to do with your own disgusting racism against white, as bad for sure as the worst white have against black.

Ask us to forgive you, because this is REALLLY BAD THINKING AND i BET BEHAVING AS WELL.

-------------

I am so disappointed with the quality of people now on this forum, and right now, you are part of the disappointment.

You seem not even be fair enough not to repeat whtatever has been done to you or yours. And you target those who have nothing to do with it. Excuse yourself, it is not complicated. This is a huge BOO BOO.

Want it or not, people DO REMEMBER these attitudes, racism is remembered, you must know, don't you.

[Iloveyou]

„In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently
you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you“

[Praxis]

Flash is there a reason you did not respond to what I posted and only continued to attack AutumnW about something that you misunderstood? Maybe you put me on the ignore list, but if you didnt:

I agree the way that AutumnW was not the clearest in who the target of his ire was. But since he thanked my post and confirmed that indeed he was talking only about a specific group of White people pushing the agenda of racial purity, it is disingenuous to call him racist against white people because clearly that is not what he said.

White nationalism are scum. I agree wholeheartedly with his assessment of Ethnonationalist of any color. If you are defending white nationalism, maybe you should take another sabbatical.

He should keep being vocal about White nationalist because we need to curb their rise since the Trump admin has made them feel WAY more comfortable.

[Kryztian]

Kryztian, If you feel compelled to watch things that question the holocaust,

Oh, so I am compelled to be a neo Nazi holocaust denier! Is this because of my "pimply white ass" that you clearly know about?


the holocaust ... was a conspiracy by one class of Jews against another

Um, nothing like that was said here by any of us. You obviously didn't read my post above, #145 where I showed I was anything but a holocaust denier! You were too busy trying to pigeon hole me and others as alt-right nut cases so that you could drip your disdain and venom upon us.

It you want to honestly and seriously engage on issues and talk about the topics we do here at Avalon, that would be swell. But if you want to pigeon hole and stereotype people so that you can verbally defecate upon them, many of us work hard to get rid of trolls here on the forum, so guess who is next on the agenda?

What ever the little game it that you are playing here, it is time to quit while you are a million miles behind. If you don't have the decency to sincerely apoligize, it's time to get off this thread and quit your nastiness. :focus:

[Dennis Leahy]

I raise a glass of pure water, toasting and saluting two passionately anti-racist Avalon members, AutumnW and Flash.

As Cool Hand Luke's nemesis prison warden said, "What we've got here is failure to communicate."

OK, here are the sentences: "It seems to me that whenever white people agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them. Pink, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning."

It is left a bit grammatically wanting in identifying the subject of the comment, and (obviously) somewhat open for misinterpretation. It's not about "white people." I understand it, but allow me to play grammar police (editor?) and try to help to identify and specify which specific group of people (white supremacists) are being blasted - but keeping the clever aquatic wordplay.

original phrase:
whenever white people agitate for genetic purity
could have been:
whenever white people who agitate for genetic purity
or
whenever white people who agitate for genetic purity (white supremacists)
or
whenever those white people who agitate for genetic purity (white supremacists)
and then, rephrasing, to identify the subject more clearly:
whenever white supremacists agitate for genetic purity
...and then the full sentences become:
It seems to me that whenever white supremacists agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them. Pink, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning.
and to complete the grammar policing, combine into one sentence:
It seems to me that whenever white supremacists agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them: pink, hairless, bloated, not bright, and thrashing about like they are drowning.
That let's the reader know that it is an intentionally racist group, "white supremacists", and not "white people" that are being blasted (and, in my opinion, deservedly.) Actually, I consider white supremacists to be a dangerous group of miscreants, and AutumnW's mockery is tame in comparison to a full intellectual deconstruction of their mental pathology.

[Kryztian]

Dennis and Praxis,

While scholars often try and explain the seemingly offensive words and ideas of great people who have died, and while helpful people reinterpret the ugly words of others who don't have a good grasp of the language or have an intellectual disability the may cause them to misspeak, Autumn is a living, breathing, intelligent person who is gifted in the art of English and all the subtleties of this language. If there is any further clarification or apology about what she said and what it really means, in order for it to be really meaningful, it has to come from herself.

For the record, I just want to say that for my whole life I have taken great offense to people whose words or actions are racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-trans, or in any way insult the dignity of people for just being who they are. I also take great offense at trying to be painted as someone who "has a compulsion" towards White Supremacy and Nazism.

About five years ago, I did watch this video "The Greatest Story Never Told". I chose to because it was intellectually challenging and would give me the opportunity to form different opinions, including disagreeing with the information here, which I greatly did (not just episode 24, as I mentioned above, but many other issues as well). My mother was born in Germany and I grew up hearing about WWII from both my mother's friends and Jewish friends whose families endured the holocaust and I was well versed in academic 20th century German history, so I was not someone to be easily led astray by a "Nazi" video. But what ever ones intentions in watching this video were, having watched it does not make one a Nazi. Intelligent people, like many of us on Avalon, are able to watch things and disagree with them at the same time.

I appreciate your sincere attempts to right Autumns wrongs, but if clarifications about words or misunderstood intentions are needed, then this is something she needs to do on her own. She is a big girl and can handle her own messes and hopefully can say what needs to be said with sincerity and without snarkiness.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Imho the more interracial marriage the better too. It seems to me that whenever white people agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them. Pink, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning.

Well, that's certainly one way to describe gold medalists at Olympic swims.

http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/241503/slide_241503_1295801_free.jpg

I'd hate to hear what everyone else looks like swimming.

Now do the Muslim Brotherhood! Or Zionist supremacists! Oh boy, I can't wait to hear what characteristics you use to describe their bodies as they swim. People think it's Jaws when they swim on their back, am I right? :rolleyes:

Yes, that is sarcasm.

[Strat]

There's a great documentary on Netflix called, 'Alt Right,'

The murders in that doc took place in my city. That being said jax is (physically) huge and that happened in the rural areas. You should see the fliers they pass out, no political discourse, just **** talk.

Also I challenge you to a swimming contest. (i know youre not racist, just stirring the pot)

[Dennis Leahy]

Dennis and Praxis,

While scholars often try and explain the seemingly offensive words and ideas of great people who have died, and while helpful people reinterpret the ugly words of others who don't have a good grasp of the language or have an intellectual disability the may cause them to misspeak, Autumn is a living, breathing, intelligent person who is gifted in the art of English and all the subtleties of this language. If there is any further clarification or apology about what she said and what it really means, in order for it to be really meaningful, it has to come from herself.

For the record, I just want to say that for my whole life I have taken great offense to people whose words or actions are racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-trans, or in any way insult the dignity of people for just being who they are. I also take great offense at trying to be painted as someone who "has a compulsion" towards White Supremacy and Nazism.

About five years ago, I did watch this video "The Greatest Story Never Told". I chose to because it was intellectually challenging and would give me the opportunity to form different opinions, including disagreeing with the information here, which I greatly did (not just episode 24, as I mentioned above, but many other issues as well). My mother was born in Germany and I grew up hearing about WWII from both my mother's friends and Jewish friends whose families endured the holocaust and I was well versed in academic 20th century German history, so I was not someone to be easily led astray by a "Nazi" video. But what ever ones intentions in watching this video were, having watched it does not make one a Nazi. Intelligent people, like many of us on Avalon, are able to watch things and disagree with them at the same time.

I appreciate your sincere attempts to right Autumns wrongs, but if clarifications about words or misunderstood intentions are needed, then this is something she needs to do on her own. She is a big girl and can handle her own messes and hopefully can say what needs to be said with sincerity and without snarkiness.

Yes, you are right that I did not address anything else that Autumn typed. I guess I just wanted to point out that AutumnW and Flash are both passionately anti-racist. Looks to me that you are too. So am I. Seems true for Praxis too. When people who are on the same side start poking each other with sharp sticks, my first thought is to remind a bunch of passionate people with differences of opinion that we have vast common ground. I don't speak for AutumnW - to me it was a clarification that needed to be made.

[AutumnW]

Kryztian, If you feel compelled to watch things that question the holocaust,

Oh, so I am compelled to be a neo Nazi holocaust denier! Is this because of my "pimply white ass" that you clearly know about?


the holocaust ... was a conspiracy by one class of Jews against another

Um, nothing like that was said here by any of us. You obviously didn't read my post above, #145 where I showed I was anything but a holocaust denier! You were too busy trying to pigeon hole me and others as alt-right nut cases so that you could drip your disdain and venom upon us.

It you want to honestly and seriously engage on issues and talk about the topics we do here at Avalon, that would be swell. But if you want to pigeon hole and stereotype people so that you can verbally defecate upon them, many of us work hard to get rid of trolls here on the forum, so guess who is next on the agenda?

What ever the little game it that you are playing here, it is time to quit while you are a million miles behind. If you don't have the decency to sincerely apoligize, it's time to get off this thread and quit your nastiness. :focus:

I am not going to apologize for remarks I made about white supremacists. Sorry. As for you, whatever you posted didn't seem to me to be racist. I was simply lambasting the type of person who makes videos that start out well enough but end up like something out of Stormfront forums. You watched the video and came away with the info about Hitler. That's good. It's an interesting thought. I watched another documentary, which I initially confused with the one you posted, that made the same claims, but obviously made by somebody without a racist agenda. It was after reading your summary of the video I declined to watch it. I don't know what is pure gold there and what is salted.

I do not think you are a white supremacist at all or a holocaust denier. If I am guilty of anything it is of repeating your own concerns about this video. Okay? You dig?

[AutumnW]

Imho the more interracial marriage the better too. It seems to me that whenever white people agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them. Pink, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning.

Well, that's certainly one way to describe gold medalists at Olympic swims.

http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/241503/slide_241503_1295801_free.jpg

I'd hate to hear what everyone else looks like swimming.

Now do the Muslim Brotherhood! Or Zionist supremacists! Oh boy, I can't wait to hear what characteristics you use to describe their bodies as they swim. People think it's Jaws when they swim on their back, am I right? :rolleyes:

Yes, that is sarcasm.

Is this fellow a white supremacist, Voice?

[AutumnW]

I raise a glass of pure water, toasting and saluting two passionately anti-racist Avalon members, AutumnW and Flash.

As Cool Hand Luke's nemesis prison warden said, "What we've got here is failure to communicate."

OK, here are the sentences: "It seems to me that whenever white people agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them. Pink, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning."

It is left a bit grammatically wanting in identifying the subject of the comment, and (obviously) somewhat open for misinterpretation. It's not about "white people." I understand it, but allow me to play grammar police (editor?) and try to help to identify and specify which specific group of people (white supremacists) are being blasted - but keeping the clever aquatic wordplay.

original phrase:
whenever white people agitate for genetic purity
could have been:
whenever white people who agitate for genetic purity
or
whenever white people who agitate for genetic purity (white supremacists)
or
whenever those white people who agitate for genetic purity (white supremacists)
and then, rephrasing, to identify the subject more clearly:
whenever white supremacists agitate for genetic purity
...and then the full sentences become:
It seems to me that whenever white supremacists agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them. Pink, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning.
and to complete the grammar policing, combine into one sentence:
It seems to me that whenever white supremacists agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them: pink, hairless, bloated, not bright, and thrashing about like they are drowning.
That let's the reader know that it is an intentionally racist group, "white supremacists", and not "white people" that are being blasted (and, in my opinion, deservedly.) Actually, I consider white supremacists to be a dangerous group of miscreants, and AutumnW's mockery is tame in comparison to a full intellectual deconstruction of their mental pathology.

Yes, I should have edited it more carefully. If I had I would have more clearly stated it was white supremacists I was referring to.

[AutumnW]

The so-called "Holocaust" was fabricated in America in 1950s, including the fake Diary of Anne Frank.

Wow!

My grandfather, a German citizen of Polish parents was a construction worker and during 1940's was stationed in Warsaw in 1943 where he bulldozed the Jewish ghettos as he was ordered to do. When he came back to Germany, he would tell friends what he did and asked “And where did all those people go to?” at which point my grandmother ordered him to shut up because they would get in trouble. When the war ended and most people were busy getting their lives back together and not looking at the past, my grandfather, not a highly educated man, was one of the first to seek out the truth of what happened to Germany’s thriving Jewish population that had almost completely disappeared..


https://i.imgur.com/96DoXmw.jpg
My grandfather, Peter Peplinski, in the early 1940s.

My mother’s best friend lost her entirely family except for her sister. The two of them were adopted by a Polish family that hid them for a while in large sauerkraut barrels while the Nazis were combing their villages. They eventually came to the U.S. and were adopted by a Jewish family. In the late 1980's she returned to Poland to meet the children of the family that saved her and was able to help them financially when the economy collapsed as Poland transitioned out of communism.




https://i.imgur.com/jEn2fso.jpg
My mother, Elisabeth Peplinski, in the early 1940s.
While she was going to Hitler Youth meetings, the woman
who would become her best friend 20 years later was
hiding from the Nazis in a sauerkraut barrel, to escape
the fate of extermination that had befallen her family.

In college I made numerous friends with students who were Jewish. A number of them, when I asked about their extended families, they gave a sardonic laugh, and remarked how most of their family tree ended at places like Auschwitz, Treblinka and Buchenwald. For many of them, their parents and grandparents were people who barely made it out, and they would never talk to their children about the years of their lives in Germany, it was just too painful. Sometimes they were neurotic about the unpredictability of the future and seized every moment of the day like it was their last, or they were angry, reclusive and mistrustful of the world. When I entered the work place I met one German-Jewish man and tried to engage him in the language of his birth. He wouldn’t respond. He had refused to speak the language of the people who had enacted so much horror. In a hot unair-conditioned bus station I encountered an older woman who briefly rolled up her long sleeved blouse in the heat as I noticed numbers tattooed on her arm. She caught me staring at her arm and immediately rolled down her sleeves. Our eyes met briefly and then we both looked away, too ashamed to confront the ugliness that had befallen her.


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

On a number of threads you either blame Jewish people for what is wrong with the world or insist that certain individuals are problematic in the world are “crypto-Jews”, including Bill and Hillary Clinton, Antonin Scalia, and George W. Bush. When I asked you about Scalia, you cited a podcast of Texe Marrs, and I did listen to it.


Here's Texe Marrs talking about Scalia's (Jewish gentile) death.
Go to 20:00
http://remnantradio.org/Archives/audio/TM2016/Texe%20Marrs%20-%201016%20-%20Secrets%20(Volume%20234).mp3

Marrs also indicates that the Pope (who at the time was in northern Mexico somewhere) could well have been there too.

I have to say I’ve listened to thousands of podcasts and youtube videos in my time presenting all sorts of controversial and unorthodox ideas (most relating to conspiracy and the paranormal) and all of them exemplify different levels of research, critical analysis, and eloquence, some better than others, but this one, is definitely at the very bottom of the list. Texe Marrs makes the argument that Scalia is a “crypto-Jew” because Scalia openly referenced the Talmud as one basis for our legal system.

https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/images/politics/graphics/scotus3.jpg?resize=716,138

If you go to the Supreme Court, you will find a frieze which includes many of the important figures in the historical development of the law, including Menes, Hammurabi,, Lycurgus, Confucius, Justinian, Muhammad, Charlemagne, King John of England, Napoleon and Moses and King Solomon. Knowing Jewish law as well as the laws of these other traditions is only showing that he is versed in the history of law, as anyone who is expected to write the nations most important decisions should be. If reading and referring to the Talmud makes one Jewish, than I, a Roman Catholic am not only Jewish, but also Hindu, Shingon Buddhist, Christian Scientist, Scientologist, Lutheran, Swedenborgian, and am only one Koran reading away from being a “crypto-Moslem” is your unique way of classifying people.

The other allegation that Pope Francis was present at the ranch where Scalia was (at an imaginary pedophillia fest - not enough time and energy to debunk the lunatic logic of Mr. Texe Marr in one post) is absurd and ridiculous. Francis did visit Ciudad Juarez, a hundred miles a way on from the ranch on the other side of the border. Absolutely no evidence that he crossed the border or any evidence presented by Mr. Marrs to prove he did so or had reason to. Not only that, but Mr. Marrs should have done a little research about the dates too. Antonin Scalia died on the 13th of February, 2016. At that time, the Pope was still in Mexico City, about a thousand miles away, and would travel to three other cities before he hit Ciudad Juarez on February 17th. So, if the Pope was at the ranch, he not only amazing was able to get over the border into Texas unnoticed, but must also be a time traveler to have reached the ranch before the time of Scalia’s death.


https://i.imgur.com/VmXLAaz.jpg

It might sound as though I were leaving out some important ideas of Mr. Marrs or over simplifying them. To the best of my knowledge, I am reproducing his shallow and empty argument to the best of my ability but please check the link above if I have missed anything and I will make a correction.


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

In people who gravitate towards ideas like the Flat Earth Theory, there is a special kind of stupid that leads one to ignore reason and critical thinking and get sucked into vacuous ideas and proclaim them loudly and arrogantly. In people who gravitate towards ideas that certain racial or religious groups, are the entire source of the world’s problems, either openly or covertly, there is a special kind of ugliness. But here in your posts, we see the intersection of the two: extreme stupidity and extreme ugliness. Why the mods of Project Avalon can not tolerate Flat Earthers as much as they tolerate you is beyond me.

Bill you asked to go back to the topic, and I am sorry to interrupt a thread that has some intelligent posts. I would suggest moving my post and yours and Didge’s “Anne Frank” post to a new thread, where Didge can now have the opportunity to tell us, using critical thought, in his own words:


How Anne Frank’s diary was faked.

How George W. Bush and Bill and Hillary Clinton are crypto-Jews.

How we can prove that Pope Francis was present at Antonin Scalias death, and how we know with certainly there were pedophilic acts taking place.


If you are unable to do this Didge in a way that impresses us with intelligence and insight, it is time for you to leave this community. It is time for you to stop disrupting our post with your two lines of arrogance of how “the Jews did it.” It is time for you to stop derailing threads with your Jew-baiting comments. It is time for you to shut up and listen to what others have to say and to start using critical thinking. And it is time for Project Avalon to stop waiting for that to happen because you have already wasted enough of our time and energy.

K,

I very much appreciate your comments here and am very moved by your family's story. It's really interesting and it is so helpful to have first hand accounts to counter all the B.S around this topic.

[AutumnW]

Flash is there a reason you did not respond to what I posted and only continued to attack AutumnW about something that you misunderstood? Maybe you put me on the ignore list, but if you didnt:

I agree the way that AutumnW was not the clearest in who the target of his ire was. But since he thanked my post and confirmed that indeed he was talking only about a specific group of White people pushing the agenda of racial purity, it is disingenuous to call him racist against white people because clearly that is not what he said.

White nationalism are scum. I agree wholeheartedly with his assessment of Ethnonationalist of any color. If you are defending white nationalism, maybe you should take another sabbatical.

He should keep being vocal about White nationalist because we need to curb their rise since the Trump admin has made them feel WAY more comfortable.

Amen. I say this as a small C Christian lefty who loves the Western Canon and Jordan Peterson but who is appalled at extremism on both ends of the ideological spectrum.

[Kryztian]

I am not going to apologize for remarks I made about white supremacists. Sorry.

And no one was asking you to do that, so lets stop pretending that is what the issue is here.



As for you, whatever you posted didn't seem to me to be racist. I was simply lambasting the type of person ...

Those last eight words there are probably the key to the problem. Why do you have to lambast "types of people" and feel entitled to put them down. Racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. are all about lambasting types of people. It is the same thing when you see someone expressing a certain thought or idea or see them with a book or watching a video and then you pigeon hole them as belonging to a "type of people." I could also, like you, describe myself as a liberal Christian that has enjoyed listening to Jordan Peterson, but doesn't mean we are the "same type or people" and it really doesn't describe why I am probably very different from you.

I found that my greatest opportunities to learn in this life were from people who weren't at all like me, so I am grateful for a world of not just different genders, skin colors, ethnicity, etc. but also for people who think intelligently and differently about the world. And if you stop lamblasting and start appreciating others for their different ways of thinking, you just might too. At a minimum, you will save yourself and others from a quite a bit of anguish.

[AutumnW]

I am not going to apologize for remarks I made about white supremacists. Sorry.

And no one was asking you to do that, so lets stop pretending that is what the issue is here.



As for you, whatever you posted didn't seem to me to be racist. I was simply lambasting the type of person ...

Those last eight words there are probably the key to the problem. Why do you have to lambast "types of people" and feel entitled to put them down. Racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. are all about lambasting types of people. It is the same thing when you see someone expressing a certain thought or idea or see them with a book or watching a video and then you pigeon hole them as belonging to a "type of people." I could also, like you, describe myself as a liberal Christian that has enjoyed listening to Jordan Peterson, but doesn't mean we are the "same type or people" and it really doesn't describe why I am probably very different from you.

I found that my greatest opportunities to learn in this life were from people who weren't at all like me, so I am grateful for a world of not just different genders, skin colors, ethnicity, etc. but also for people who think intelligently and differently about the world. And if you stop lamblasting and start appreciating others for their different ways of thinking, you just might too. At a minimum, you will save yourself and others from a quite a bit of anguish.

Dude, Are you intentionally misreading me? I don't appreciate racist hatemongers who make youtube videos that start out benign and end up being rants about how things would have been better if Nazis won the war, or stuff to that effect. Seriously...get a grip and quit sliming me.

BTW The entire sentence I wrote read:

I was simply lambasting the type of person who makes videos that start out well enough but end up like something out of Stormfront forums.

You used eight words that could have easily been taken out of context. Why did you do that?

Do you get that I do not think YOU are a racist for posting it, nor did I EVER claim I thought you were. You are obviously able to retrieve diamonds from dunghills of racist videos. Good for you.

YOu are obviously compelled to watch videos that challenge you in that way. I'm not. My personal opinion is if the creator of the video is that off base, I question his or her judgement on other facts in the video that I can't possibly vet for credibility. If you feel you can...well good on you.

Now for the love of God, knock it off.

[AutumnW]

Just to clarify Krystian,

Here is what YOU wrote about the video in question. It's the reason I didn't watch it.

Episode 24 really shows you who is behind the video - it basically says, if Hitler had won, we would not have to put up with .... what follows is a photo montage that shows pictures of interracial and same sex couples, mixed with photos of people rioting and urinating on public monuments. Make no mistake, this series is the work of fascist white supremacists.

And here you are suggesting I apologize.

What ever the little game it that you are playing here, it is time to quit while you are a million miles behind. If you don't have the decency to sincerely apoligize, it's time to get off this thread and quit your nastiness.---Kryztian


And no one was asking you to do that (apologize), so lets stop pretending that is what the issue is here. ---Kryztian

I did this for the sake of my sanity. I was wondering if I was imagining things

[Flash]

I raise a glass of pure water, toasting and saluting two passionately anti-racist Avalon members, AutumnW and Flash.

As Cool Hand Luke's nemesis prison warden said, "What we've got here is failure to communicate."

OK, here are the sentences: "It seems to me that whenever white people agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them. Pink, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning."

It is left a bit grammatically wanting in identifying the subject of the comment, and (obviously) somewhat open for misinterpretation. It's not about "white people." I understand it, but allow me to play grammar police (editor?) and try to help to identify and specify which specific group of people (white supremacists) are being blasted - but keeping the clever aquatic wordplay.

original phrase:
whenever white people agitate for genetic purity
could have been:
whenever white people who agitate for genetic purity
or
whenever white people who agitate for genetic purity (white supremacists)
or
whenever those white people who agitate for genetic purity (white supremacists)
and then, rephrasing, to identify the subject more clearly:
whenever white supremacists agitate for genetic purity
...and then the full sentences become:
It seems to me that whenever white supremacists agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them. Pink, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning.
and to complete the grammar policing, combine into one sentence:
It seems to me that whenever white supremacists agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them: pink, hairless, bloated, not bright, and thrashing about like they are drowning.
That let's the reader know that it is an intentionally racist group, "white supremacists", and not "white people" that are being blasted (and, in my opinion, deservedly.) Actually, I consider white supremacists to be a dangerous group of miscreants, and AutumnW's mockery is tame in comparison to a full intellectual deconstruction of their mental pathology.

Gosh, I never ever understood Autumn was talking about White Supremacists. Her/his comment are still harsh, but it is different (theirs are harsher). I sincerely would never have guessed in view of may abilities to read - gosh I have to revise the way I read English.

I read that she was talking about the whole white race.

Either Autumns writing mishaps, or my misunderstanding of the English language.

Please fellows, we are not all English speaking around here. When there is misunderstanding, please express yourself better to correct the situation instead of giving answers continuing the fights.

Thanks Dennis for clarifying. The most intelligent of us is you!!!!

[Flash]

Flash is there a reason you did not respond to what I posted and only continued to attack AutumnW about something that you misunderstood? Maybe you put me on the ignore list, but if you didnt:

I agree the way that AutumnW was not the clearest in who the target of his ire was. But since he thanked my post and confirmed that indeed he was talking only about a specific group of White people pushing the agenda of racial purity, it is disingenuous to call him racist against white people because clearly that is not what he said.

White nationalism are scum. I agree wholeheartedly with his assessment of Ethnonationalist of any color. If you are defending white nationalism, maybe you should take another sabbatical.

He should keep being vocal about White nationalist because we need to curb their rise since the Trump admin has made them feel WAY more comfortable.

No, no reason. I read the thread fast and had to go do some other chores. I truly never understood about white supremacists. You know when thing are written in a subtle way like "whenever white people agitate for genetic purity,", foreigners take it literally. We are not from your culture to start with, there are about zero white supremacists in my province, so I do not automatically link genetic purity with white supremacists. To me, it was all white who wants purity from what I read. And this seemed like a racist comment because not true (from my reading).

I am not anything racist truly, what I care about is good hearted people with basic human decency.

[AriG]

Flash is there a reason you did not respond to what I posted and only continued to attack AutumnW about something that you misunderstood? Maybe you put me on the ignore list, but if you didnt:

I agree the way that AutumnW was not the clearest in who the target of his ire was. But since he thanked my post and confirmed that indeed he was talking only about a specific group of White people pushing the agenda of racial purity, it is disingenuous to call him racist against white people because clearly that is not what he said.

White nationalism are scum. I agree wholeheartedly with his assessment of Ethnonationalist of any color. If you are defending white nationalism, maybe you should take another sabbatical.

He should keep being vocal about White nationalist because we need to curb their rise since the Trump admin has made them feel WAY more comfortable.

No, no reason. I read the thread fast and had to go do some other chores. I truly never understood about white supremacists. You know when thing are written in a subtle way like "whenever white people agitate for genetic purity,", foreigners take it literally. We are not from your culture to start with, there are about zero white supremacists in my province, so I do not automatically link genetic purity with white supremacists. To me, it was all white who wants purity from what I read. And this seemed like a racist comment because not true (from my reading).

I am not anything racist truly, what I care about is good hearted people with basic human decency.

Flash,

I don’t think you interpreted the language incorrectly at all. I am a multi-lingual American ( I know, an oxymoron), and I also live about 60 miles (currently) from the Mason-Dixon Line and a mere six years ago, lived right on that line. A line tinged with racial hatred and tension. The innuendos are subtle and the bias is duplicitous. The anger and hatred of caucasians here is palpable. Not suggesting that a long history hasn’t forced that and understandably so, but when does the hatred end? Are we doomed to play out the same scenario that plagues Israel/Gaza, or can we rise above the sins of our forebearers and heal the divide? Forgiveness and understanding must prevail, lest we all perish.

[Kryztian]

Are you intentionally misreading me? ...

The entire sentence I wrote read:

I was simply lambasting the type of person who makes videos that start out well enough but end up like something out of Stormfront forums.

You used eight words that could have easily been taken out of context. Why did you do that?

What is the important context here that I missed? The words I omitted were “person who makes videos that start out well enough but end up like something out of Stormfront forums.” How would including those words have changed my meaning? I was referring to both, this sentence here, where you paint some ugly generalized picture of “racists” so that you can apply it to people and vent you bile and venom upon them, and to your classifications of me, where you don’t directly call me a racist or Nazi or white supremacist, but you clearly craft a web of words to make that kind of insinuation. Here, are your exact words:


Kryztian, If you feel compelled to watch things that question the holocaust, up to suggesting it was a conspiracy by one class of Jews against another, feel free.

I felt “compelled”. I have “compulsions”. Wow, that sounds like I am a sick person. How do you know what brought me to this video? I’ve never watched any video where one class of Jews conspired against another. Can you tell me the name of such a video? This is an ugly and offensive mis characterization of who I am. Deplorable!


You are obviously able to retrieve diamonds from dunghills of racist videos. Good for you.


So I watch “dunghills of racist videos”? I’ve watched this ONE VIDEO, and not even in its entirety! Care to tell me about the other ones you know about? And why is this video a dunghill? It’s been five years since I’ve watched it, but some of the historical incidents that I did learn about were the Mexican Repatriation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Repatriation) of the 1920's where Millions of Hispanics, many born in the U.S.A., and some of them not even Mexican, were deported to Mexico by the U.S.A. and the Amritsar massacre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_massacre), a grotesque slaughter of Indians by the British Raj. Bill Ryan, the founder of the forum in which you are a member recommends watching this video. Since you are a member of a forum, where the forum head makes "racist" videos, doesn't that make you a racist too.

I’ve been called “fag” and “cracker” before. I’ve also been around others who have been insulted and demeaned in such ways. And it sucks and hurts. And I thought I was beyond letting ugly remarks like that bother me. But your elaborate weaving of words designed to call me out as someone who I am not really makes me feel sick. Thank you for reminding me that I am not as thick skinned as I thought and ugly words can still make me feel really sick!


Now for the love of God, knock it off.

For the Love of God, I will always be aware of abusive behavior, or mean spiritedness, of techniques to bully and badger, and for the Love of God, I will always continue to fight against them, but holding people responsible for their own words!

[Additional Edit] I see you removed the "diamonds from dunghills of racist videos" comment from your original post. Thank you! That is an improvement

[Constance]

Flash,

I don’t think you interpreted the language incorrectly at all.

Hi AriG :waving:

Did you happen to see this post by AutumnW?




Yes, I should have edited it more carefully. If I had I would have more clearly stated it was white supremacists I was referring to.

[AriG]

Flash,

I don’t think you interpreted the language incorrectly at all.

Hi AriG :waving:

Did you happen to see this post by AutumnW?




Yes, I should have edited it more carefully. If I had I would have more clearly stated it was white supremacists I was referring to.

Yes.......

[Constance]

Flash,

I don’t think you interpreted the language incorrectly at all.

Hi AriG :waving:

Did you happen to see this post by AutumnW?




Yes, I should have edited it more carefully. If I had I would have more clearly stated it was white supremacists I was referring to.

Yes.......

Great! Then I am sure you will appreciate that AutumnW is actually delineating quite clearly that it was white supremacists that she is referring to.

:focus:

[Kryztian]

Great! Then I am sure you will appreciate that AutumnW is actually delineating quite clearly that it was white supremacists that she is referring to.


"Delineating"??? Seriously??? Isn't there a more anti-septic euphemism for vituperative behavior??? And let's remember, she wasn't "delineating" all white supremacists, just the "pimply assed ones."

Not sure why everyone has to soften or reinterpret her language, she's not an invalid. In fact, she is quite masterful in her use of language and innuendo. If she can start fires, she is quite capable of putting them out too.




:focus:

[Constance]

Great! Then I am sure you will appreciate that AutumnW is actually delineating quite clearly that it was white supremacists that she is referring to.


"Delineating"??? Seriously??? Isn't there a more anti-septic euphemism for vituperative behavior??? And let's remember, she wasn't "delineating" all white supremacists, just the "pimply assed ones."

Not sure why everyone has to soften or reinterpret her language, she's not an invalid. In fact, she is quite masterful in her use of language and innuendo. If she can start fires, she is quite capable of putting them out too.

:focus:

I'm not trying to soften or reinterpret Autumn's language at all. I'm really scratching my head here. According to the MacMillan dictionary 'delineating' means 'to describe something very exactly' and if you look upstream Kryztian at post #170 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?70201-Adolf-Hitler-The-Greatest-Story-Never-Told&p=1292432&viewfull=1#post1292432) this is exactly what AutumnW said.
I'm really just trying to prevent further miscommunications and misinterpretations.

[Kryztian]

I'm really scratching my head here. According to the MacMillan dictionary 'delineating' means 'to describe something very exactly'

Yes, its almost 4am and I am also scratching my head too. I am wondering what she was able 'to describe so very exactly'? Was it the part where she described people as "Pink, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning." or was it the pimply ass part? Oh, but she is just describing white supremacist people, not all white people! And who does she "delineate" as a white supremacist? Well, anyone who watched the video and didn't completely deplore would also be a white supremacist by the way she continually tried to pigeon hole me. I didn't take it as a personal offense when she said this words, but then she tried to pigeon hole me into this category I think I am completely entitled to.

Are we really supposed to bow down in adoration towards Autumn for her post #170 like it is significantly contrite? Yes, it's the one time her mouth wasn't firing off insults and innuendos, but it is just an attempt to escape responsibility for the hurt she caused and is far from commerurate from the insult she created.

Why you expect us all to show such love and understanding to someone who behaves so viciously is beyond me.

[Praxis]

I raise a glass of pure water, toasting and saluting two passionately anti-racist Avalon members, AutumnW and Flash.

As Cool Hand Luke's nemesis prison warden said, "What we've got here is failure to communicate."

OK, here are the sentences: "It seems to me that whenever white people agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them. Pink, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning."

It is left a bit grammatically wanting in identifying the subject of the comment, and (obviously) somewhat open for misinterpretation. It's not about "white people." I understand it, but allow me to play grammar police (editor?) and try to help to identify and specify which specific group of people (white supremacists) are being blasted - but keeping the clever aquatic wordplay.

original phrase:
whenever white people agitate for genetic purity
could have been:
whenever white people who agitate for genetic purity
or
whenever white people who agitate for genetic purity (white supremacists)
or
whenever those white people who agitate for genetic purity (white supremacists)
and then, rephrasing, to identify the subject more clearly:
whenever white supremacists agitate for genetic purity
...and then the full sentences become:
It seems to me that whenever white supremacists agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them. Pink, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning.
and to complete the grammar policing, combine into one sentence:
It seems to me that whenever white supremacists agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them: pink, hairless, bloated, not bright, and thrashing about like they are drowning.
That let's the reader know that it is an intentionally racist group, "white supremacists", and not "white people" that are being blasted (and, in my opinion, deservedly.) Actually, I consider white supremacists to be a dangerous group of miscreants, and AutumnW's mockery is tame in comparison to a full intellectual deconstruction of their mental pathology.

Gosh, I never ever understood Autumn was talking about White Supremacists. Her/his comment are still harsh, but it is different (theirs are harsher). I sincerely would never have guessed in view of may abilities to read - gosh I have to revise the way I read English.

I read that she was talking about the whole white race.

Either Autumns writing mishaps, or my misunderstanding of the English language.

Please fellows, we are not all English speaking around here. When there is misunderstanding, please express yourself better to correct the situation instead of giving answers continuing the fights.

Thanks Dennis for clarifying. The most intelligent of us is you!!!!

I dont think you need to change the way you read Flash.

Honestly, the way it was written was really confusing and I had to stop and do many rereads just to make sure I actually understood what they(i use they because I was/am not sure of the sex of AutumnW but for me it doesnt matter really) were really intending.
Dennis did an excellent job of really making it very clear.

[Mark]

I appreciate the energy spent here in clarifying the nature of each person who has contributed to the recent discussion in this thread. Beautiful souls on a journey to understanding. Text remains one of the most difficult areas of translation but care has been taken to clarify meaning on this topic, one of the most important confronting the human family at this juncture in our planetary history. It is true, people who share a common cause need to do what they must to avoid the "circular firing squad". Kudos and many blessings.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Is this fellow a white supremacist, Voice?

Well he's white, doesn't have a genocidal self-hatred complex, so yeah, he probably is.

So tell me more about the disgusting, pink, bloated bodies that white supremacists have, you sweet old "anti-racist," you.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

I'm not trying to soften or reinterpret Autumn's language at all. I'm really scratching my head here. According to the MacMillan dictionary 'delineating' means 'to describe something very exactly' and if you look upstream Kryztian at post #170 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?70201-Adolf-Hitler-The-Greatest-Story-Never-Told&p=1292432&viewfull=1#post1292432) this is exactly what AutumnW said.
I'm really just trying to prevent further miscommunications and misinterpretations.

I wonder if I made similarly degrading descriptions about the bodies of people from other races, if the staff here at Avalon would be bending over backwards to reinterpret my words for me too.

I think we all know the answer to that.

[Strat]

AutumnW is not a racist. What she's posting is factually slightly off and cherry picking but I don't find it offensive. We very much need to be able to poke fun at each other without exploding and 'calling them out.' I will say, you should definitely get to know folks before 'busting balls' but in these forums I'm generally sure nobody is outright racist. I'm sure there are inherent prejudices and biases but I doubt there is downright racism.

I think it's best to work on ourselves so that we don't have a hair trigger on our tempers. Arguing with someone rarely changes minds. It's like impossible to 'be right' in these debates. Just when you got it all figured out someone comes along, says one line, then you feel dumb.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

I'm generally sure nobody is outright racist.

Based on whose definition of racism? Because to me, when you claim to be insulting supremacists, but then insult them based on the appearance of their body, which they hold in common with everyone who belongs to that race, I don't think the people posting on this thread even know what "racism" or "anti-racism" mean.

Imagine I said, "I hate Arab supremacists," and then began insulting them based on their greasy, olive-colored bodies and black, stubbly faces. Does that pass the sniff test to you? Should I expect the Avalon staff to come in and "clarify" my comment and assure everyone that no offense was committed, all while patting each other on the back to reassure themselves about how not-racist they all are? :rolleyes:

I don't think people even know what racism is anymore, and this is clown world in here.

[Dennis Leahy]

Is this fellow a white supremacist, Voice?

Well he's white, doesn't have a genocidal self-hatred complex, so yeah, he probably is.

So tell me more about the disgusting, pink, bloated bodies that white supremacists have, you sweet old "anti-racist," you.

Back on the playground in elementary school, one kid might call another kid a "poop head." Yet, there is actually no poop on the kid's head!

On the freeway, one driver might call another driver an "asshole", yet the offending driver's anal sphincter is not really displayed, nor is it the source of the problem.

"Your mother wears combat boots!" - (that insult must have been from before the military welcomed women to kill the damn foreigners that have the audacity to have built their homes on our oil!) But the pronouncement is probably almost always incorrect!

My girlfriend from 40 years ago (who had escaped East Germany as a child) taught me to say a German insult, saufafluctahundt! (no idea how to really spell it), which (according to her) means sow pig dog. Yet, no farm animals are actually present!

Thus is the nature of insults. Not literal, but metaphorical or allegorical.

So, what is a serviceable insult to white supremacists? For me personally, it could not be actual words, but rather the sounds, sights, and smells of vomiting. Words are inadequate.

Based on the Aryan (white supremacist) notion of the genetic superiority of the "white race", AutumnW chose to poke fun at the white supremacists desired gene pool, and word-played with it as an aquatic theme. It's an insult, not a doctoral dissertation, and not to be taken literally.

I could twist this on you and ask if you are really defending white supremacists. I really don't think you are, but "The lady [man] doth protest too much, methinks", of others mocking white supremacists. If you keep up the pearl-clutching over white supremacists being insulted, I think you should be prepared to directly answer two questions: Are you a white supremacist? Do you support white supremacy? Even though you and I have some major differences of opinion on various subjects, I am confident that your answers would be "no" and "no." Prove me right.

================

This thread has strayed far off course, and I will powwow with the mods as to slicing off all of the off-topic and barely-on-topic posts of late, into another thread. For the moment, I'd say for everyone to feel free to add whatever you feel is important to express, even if off-topic, knowing (assuming) that it will be split off this thread. However, I would ask everyone to take a deep breath, recognize that the other people posting are not your enemies but rather are your compatriots fighting against our perception and understanding of evil. We're on the same side - do stop and publicly recognize that fact.

[Strat]

I'm generally sure nobody is outright racist.

Based on whose definition of racism? Because to me, when you claim to be insulting supremacists, but then insult them based on the appearance of their body, which they hold in common with everyone who belongs to that race, I don't think the people posting on this thread even know what "racism" or "anti-racism" mean.

Imagine I said, "I hate Arab supremacists," and then began insulting them based on their greasy, olive-colored bodies and black, stubbly faces. Does that pass the sniff test to you? Should I expect the Avalon staff to come in and "clarify" my comment and assure everyone that no offense was committed, all while patting each other on the back to reassure themselves about how not-racist they all are? :rolleyes:

I don't think people even know what racism is anymore, and this is clown world in here.

Care to comment on the rest of my post?

[Pam]

AutumnW is not a racist. What she's posting is factually slightly off and cherry picking but I don't find it offensive. We very much need to be able to poke fun at each other without exploding and 'calling them out.' I will say, you should definitely get to know folks before 'busting balls' but in these forums I'm generally sure nobody is outright racist. I'm sure there are inherent prejudices and biases but I doubt there is downright racism.

Comment was not on topic.

[AutumnW]

I'm really scratching my head here. According to the MacMillan dictionary 'delineating' means 'to describe something very exactly'

Yes, its almost 4am and I am also scratching my head too. I am wondering what she was able 'to describe so very exactly'? Was it the part where she described people as "Pink, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning." or was it the pimply ass part? Oh, but she is just describing white supremacist people, not all white people! And who does she "delineate" as a white supremacist? Well, anyone who watched the video and didn't completely deplore would also be a white supremacist by the way she continually tried to pigeon hole me. I didn't take it as a personal offense when she said this words, but then she tried to pigeon hole me into this category I think I am completely entitled to.

Are we really supposed to bow down in adoration towards Autumn for her post #170 like it is significantly contrite? Yes, it's the one time her mouth wasn't firing off insults and innuendos, but it is just an attempt to escape responsibility for the hurt she caused and is far from commerurate from the insult she created.

Why you expect us all to show such love and understanding to someone who behaves so viciously is beyond me.

Hi Kryztian,

After sleeping on this I realize now how I offended you. And I DO apologize for not recognizing sooner how you misinterpreted what I wrote. I have to edit and then re-edit what I write for clarity. Obviously. I have managed to convince not just you but another poster as well that I am an evil genius, it appears. Believe me when I say I NEVER meant to offend you personally or call your character into question. I use the word, "compelled," a LOT when I refer to my own desires. I feel compelled to watch this or do that, or whatever. I don't generally mean that I have OCD and have an unhealthy preoccupation with doing a,b or c.

When I commented that you felt compelled to watch videos crafted by fascists. I followed that statement with the qualifiers that you are obviously able to extract useful information from them--thus diamonds out of dunghills. I think this is a fair statement and one that doesn't discredit you. Let me be clear again. I won't watch videos of this nature because I am not able to vet the rest of the information. I should have also included that I am somewhat suggestible and don't trust myself to watch this kind of thing. I feel such animosity towards Israel I don't want to watch anything that might carry that animosity into the Jewish community.

As far as "up to and including the fact that it was Jews who started the whole holocaust ball rolling," or words to that effect. No, of course you didn't say that. But it's fairly certain if the film was an alt right themed, fascist production, that that idea is in there. It's very common among the extreme neo-Nazi crowd.

So there you go. Now, perhaps we can be friends. If something comes up again where you feel offended by me, please PM me and we can sort it out behind the scenes. I am most amenable to people asking me, "did you mean this or that," rather than unleashing the hounds of Hell on me on a public forum. Super happy to retract almost anything and apologize for misunderstandings or where I have been unfair.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Thus is the nature of insults. Not literal, but metaphorical or allegorical.

So, what is a serviceable insult to white supremacists? For me personally, it could not be actual words, but rather the sounds, sights, and smells of vomiting. Words are inadequate.

As it happens, I actually literally have white skin that tends to pink when I'm not tan, so what Autumn posted about people with white skin is not allegorical or metaphorical to me. You don't have to be a white supremacist to have white skin, in case you forgot. And what Autumn posted was clearly directed towards a race of people. Not supremacists, not an ideology, but the appearance of white bodies was the object of Autumn's degrading comments. Yet "for some reason" some of you mods don't seem to get that, though I'm sure you would very quickly if the shoe were on a different colored foot. I would say I find it "interesting" how it took no time at all for you guys to show up in here to defend those same degrading comments, but of course we all know which side of the line each other sits on, and of course I'm not actually surprised by what you're doing at all.

I don't believe that Bill Ryan would actually support his moderators defending anti-white racism, so why else would you rush onto this thread to "clarify" and defend Autumn's comments, as if there might be something wrong with them?


Based on the Aryan (white supremacist) notion of the genetic superiority of the "white race", AutumnW chose to poke fun at the white supremacists desired gene pool, and word-played with it as an aquatic theme. It's an insult, not a doctoral dissertation, and not to be taken literally.

Black Panthers are also ethnic nationalists and supremacists, but I hope you would agree that the existence of the Black Panthers does not give me carte blanche to insult the black gene pool and what black people look like. Right? Or do you need more room to double-down this double standard? Let me describe what the Asian or Latino gene pools look like while I'm at it and you keep explaining to me how fine this is, and how thick everyone's skin is.

Are you one of those people who goes around claiming that it's impossible for minorities to be racist?


I could twist this on you and ask if you are really defending white supremacists. I really don't think you are, but "The lady [man] doth protest too much, methinks", of others mocking white supremacists.

You and all the other leftists accusing everyone to the right of Stalin being "literally Hitler" or a "Nazi" or "white supremacist" is actually making these terms so watered-down and meaningless that I don't even care what insults you hurl at me anymore. If it gets your dopamine flowing to call other people white supremacists, then please, let me be the target of your anti-white hate. In the mean time, please be aware of what you are doing to empower actual white supremacists, by perpetually and antagonistically pushing normal people into their camp as if you SJWs are just "the future" by default, and no backlash could possibly come of racially antagonizing white people.


Are you a white supremacist? Do you support white supremacy? Even though you and I have some major differences of opinion on various subjects, I am confident that your answers would be "no" and "no." Prove me right.

Give me a definition of "white supremacist" that actually makes sense. If white people as a whole are allowed by established society to come under blatant racist attacks (such as Autumn's, which you are other mods are here defending without even being asked), and I defend myself and other white people against them, and you and others in the SJW cult define that as white "supremacy," do you really think that is going to dissuade people from standing up for what is actually right? That seems to be the big gamble you leftists are taking, and I have to say, current social trends aren't looking pretty for that strategy.

[Dennis Leahy]

You are conflating the mockery of white supremacists, neo-nazis, avowed racists, with the mockery of all melanin-challenged people. Stop that. It's called 'putting words in someone's mouth.'

This is called a "strawman argument": "If white people as a whole are allowed by established society to come under racist attacks..." because that isn't in the equation, it's just conflated hand-wringing, pearl-clutching, and fear-mongering. You're just making something up and then arguing against it. Strawman.

And just wow on your inability to simply answer those two questions with a simple unqualified "no." You are also name-calling me a "SJW" and a cultist and a leftist, I guess in an attempt to further turn away from the (just slightly on-topic due to the lineage from hitler to today's white supremacists) actual subject at hand. If you were old enough in 1963, you know where you were when JFK was taken out; you certainly know where you were on the morning of 9/11, and you certainly do know if you support white supremacy. That's "white supremacy", not "being white/Caucasian."

[Constance]

I'm not trying to soften or reinterpret Autumn's language at all. I'm really scratching my head here. According to the MacMillan dictionary 'delineating' means 'to describe something very exactly' and if you look upstream Kryztian at post #170 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?70201-Adolf-Hitler-The-Greatest-Story-Never-Told&p=1292432&viewfull=1#post1292432) this is exactly what AutumnW said.
I'm really just trying to prevent further miscommunications and misinterpretations.

I wonder if I made similarly degrading descriptions about the bodies of people from other races, if the staff here at Avalon would be bending over backwards to reinterpret my words for me too.

I think we all know the answer to that.

I'll try and say this another way Voice from the Mountains. I was pointing to another post, post #170 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?70201-Adolf-Hitler-The-Greatest-Story-Never-Told&p=1292432&viewfull=1#post1292432) upstream to demonstrate what correction AutumnW had made to her post. An example would be say, if Joe Bloggs had written a post saying 'Onion' but had then made the correction to 'Red Onion'. It was just a point of reference. Nothing more, nothing less. I am not trying to reinterpret anyone's words. I don't have any agendas. I'm really just trying to do the best I can as a mod.

I am as aware as anyone else how sentences or words can be misconstrued or misinterpreted and so my apologies if what I said was not as clear as it could have been.

I want to reiterate what Dennis said upstream (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?70201-Adolf-Hitler-The-Greatest-Story-Never-Told&p=1292674#post1292674) because it is worthwhile repeating.

Recognize that the other people posting are not your enemies but rather are your compatriots fighting against our perception and understanding of evil. We're on the same side - do stop and publicly recognize that fact.

[Kryztian]

Dear AutumnW:

Thank you for your last post, for which I am most grateful and relieved. I do appreciate your words and the time and energy you took to write it.

To say, however, that I misinterpreted what you wrote, is not to fully accept responsibility for your words here. Your language is filled with colorful similes and metaphors, and if they weren’t so hostile and directed at real people with real feelings, they would actually be quite humorous. The language is also quite vague and open to a lot of different interpretations. When you address me as “Dude” or refer to the intellectual content of my life as “dunghills” or use many of the language choices that you did in this thread, there is a clear and unmistakable tone of anger, hostility and disdain that pretty much insures that most people are going to interpret your words in the most negative way possible, and your vague and colorful language leaves a lot of room for interpretation.

As far as my “unleashing the hounds of Hell” upon you in public, I think you might want to review this thread. At this moment, I don’t have the stomach to do this, but as I recollect, most of your post were general assertions of who I was and what kind of person I was and what kind of Holocaust denying videos I like to watch. Most of my posts were only criticizing you in terms of the language you were directing at me here in this thread, and since I had not had much interaction with you on Avalon I made no assumption as to who you were outside this thread. I feel no need to retract any of the language I made or make any claims that my words how meanings which could have been misunderstood. I think my word choices were pretty good, considering, that I felt, in my opinion, that it was I who was battling the “hounds of Hell” at the time. This is not to say that I don’t get emotional and unreasonable and my word choices aren’t always perfect, and if I did say something untrue, untoward or undeserved, please let me know and, if I agree, I will gladly apologize. Perhaps I could have been a little less abrupt when I disagreed with you about whether the video discussed in this thread should have any value. For that I do apologize.

As for your suggestion that we now be friends, I don’t think that either of us could sincerely do that right now, considering our disagreement as to what actually happened here. But we can always agree to disagree, and we can certainly be polite and even look forward to having some interesting discussions and even have fun debating from different points of view. This becomes a whole lot easier when you take Adolph Hitler and revisionist WW II history off the table. So I sincerely hope that we can look forward to that! And while I don’t agree with all of your words here, I do thank you.

Sincerely,

Kryztian

[Kryztian]

This thread has strayed far off course, and I will powwow with the mods as to slicing off all of the off-topic and barely-on-topic posts of late, into another thread. For the moment, I'd say for everyone to feel free to add whatever you feel is important to express, even if off-topic, knowing (assuming) that it will be split off this thread. However, I would ask everyone to take a deep breath, recognize that the other people posting are not your enemies but rather are your compatriots fighting against our perception and understanding of evil. We're on the same side - do stop and publicly recognize that fact.

Interestingly, I started off on another thread in a conversation with the now departed (from this forum) Didgevillage. His comments about the Holocaust made it off topic, but responses were necessary, so I requested the posts be moved to a new or other thread and I should have been more specific about which one!!! This thread may have seemed like a logical choice at them time, but I was a little bit taken aback when I suddenly found my self on the Internet in the midst of a thread whose first two words were "Adolf Hitler". What could possibly go wrong!?! Thanks a whole heck of a lot for that one Bill Ryan! I will buy you a drink next time we meet!!! You really delivered on that ancient blessing of "May you live in interesting times!". :p:ROFL:

[AutumnW]

Dear AutumnW:

Thank you for your last post, for which I am most grateful and relieved. I do appreciate your words and the time and energy you took to write it.

To say, however, that I misinterpreted what you wrote, is not to fully accept responsibility for your words here. Your language is filled with colorful similes and metaphors, and if they weren’t so hostile and directed at real people with real feelings, they would actually be quite humorous. The language is also quite vague and open to a lot of different interpretations. When you address me as “Dude” or refer to the intellectual content of my life as “dunghills” or use many of the language choices that you did in this thread, there is a clear and unmistakable tone of anger, hostility and disdain that pretty much insures that most people are going to interpret your words in the most negative way possible, and your vague and colorful language leaves a lot of room for interpretation.

As far as my “unleashing the hounds of Hell” upon you in public, I think you might want to review this thread. At this moment, I don’t have the stomach to do this, but as I recollect, most of your post were general assertions of who I was and what kind of person I was and what kind of Holocaust denying videos I like to watch. Most of my posts were only criticizing you in terms of the language you were directing at me here in this thread, and since I had not had much interaction with you on Avalon I made no assumption as to who you were outside this thread. I feel no need to retract any of the language I made or make any claims that my words how meanings which could have been misunderstood. I think my word choices were pretty good, considering, that I felt, in my opinion, that it was I who was battling the “hounds of Hell” at the time. This is not to say that I don’t get emotional and unreasonable and my word choices aren’t always perfect, and if I did say something untrue, untoward or undeserved, please let me know and, if I agree, I will gladly apologize. Perhaps I could have been a little less abrupt when I disagreed with you about whether the video discussed in this thread should have any value. For that I do apologize.

As for your suggestion that we now be friends, I don’t think that either of us could sincerely do that right now, considering our disagreement as to what actually happened here. But we can always agree to disagree, and we can certainly be polite and even look forward to having some interesting discussions and even have fun debating from different points of view. This becomes a whole lot easier when you take Adolph Hitler and revisionist WW II history off the table. So I sincerely hope that we can look forward to that! And while I don’t agree with all of your words here, I do thank you.

Sincerely,

Kryztian

I understand completely. Best wishes, K.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

You are conflating the mockery of white supremacists, neo-nazis, avowed racists, with the mockery of all melanin-challenged people. Stop that. It's called 'putting words in someone's mouth.'

Fine, then Dennis, I'll just accept your pronouncement as gospel and take it to its logical conclusion.

I will not only prove that I am less racist than you, but that I am logically consistent in my morality, too. I'll condemn all racial supremacists, and in Autumn's exact words! So let's celebrate bashing racial supremacists together and pat each other on the back about how not racist we are. Maybe we'll even have a party about it.

Here we go!

White supremacists:

It seems to me that whenever white people agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them. Pink, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning.

Black supremacists:

It seems to me that whenever black people agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them. Black, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning.

Chinese supremacists:

It seems to me that whenever the Chinese agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them. Yellow, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning.

Islamic Brotherhood:

It seems to me that whenever Arabs people agitate for genetic purity, it's a bit like promoting a tiny gene pool where even the best swimmers are like them. Olive-colored, hairless, bloated, not bright and thrashing about like they are drowning.


And I expect the same "thanks" on my post from the so-not-racist mods Billy and Sierra, since they're clearly against all forms of racial supremacy. I hope you all feel appropriately vindicated in your social justice crusade against all this racism in the world. I'm sure everything I just posted above makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, just like hating white people does.



And just wow on your inability to simply answer those two questions with a simple unqualified "no." You are also name-calling me a "SJW" and a cultist and a leftist, I guess in an attempt to further turn away from the (just slightly on-topic due to the lineage from hitler to today's white supremacists) actual subject at hand.

Completely on-topic because Hitler was also a racist socialist. The fact that he was pro-white instead of anti-white like the mods who ran into this thread makes little difference, because it's still racial politics, the left's forte.


and you certainly do know if you support white supremacy. That's "white supremacy", not "being white/Caucasian."

And you would certainly know how to define it like I asked. The problem is, it's like hate speech, which Bill himself complains about. You can't define hate speech, and you can't define white supremacy either, because you need the definition to shift with your political agenda.

[petra]

Hitler is clearly poisoning this thread from beyond the grave :P
Can we please go back to talking about Hitler? I really think it's a big piece of the puzzle.



...If something comes up again where you feel offended by me, please PM me and we can sort it out behind the scenes. I am most amenable to people asking me, "did you mean this or that," rather than unleashing the hounds of Hell on me on a public forum. Super happy to retract almost anything and apologize for misunderstandings or where I have been unfair.

Or just report the posting, and have a mod mediate. Because some people are shy :)

[AutumnW]

Voice from the Mountains,

Let's clarify once again. I was referring to white supremacists who focus on racial purity and their genetics as if it is something particularly special. For further clarification...My siblings and I, all have mild congenital defect.

For several centuries my father's Swedish/Lapp ancestors were geographically isolated and ended up part of a gene puddle rather than a gene pool. I can't be sure this is the cause and am still proud of my heritage but....I chose not have children, in part because of this genetic load.

When I hear fair haired pale skinned white supremacists make comments about white racial purity and preserving their superiority, it just makes me laugh. The very best thing you can do for the genetic health of your children is to marry a healthy individual outside of your racial type.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

If your words reflect your frustration from things in your personal life, that is fine, and I can understand that completely. I don't even oppose you being able to say what you said, because I believe in free speech. The only problem I have is when I see rules selectively applied based on which race is involved, which is the very definition of racial discrimination.

If there are rules against certain forms of speech on this or any other forum, that is typical and understandable. What is not understandable to me, whether it's on a forum or any other system in whatever form that is nominally based upon rules and some kind of order, is how people carve out exceptions to the rules based on race.


The very best thing you can do for the genetic health of your children is to marry a healthy individual outside of your racial type.

I don't think there is any simple way to determine what "the very best thing you can do for the genetic health of your children" is, but the natural chemistry/instincts/whatever you want to call it, that two healthy and compatible people feel around one another, is probably the best we're going to get. What you are alluding to, by the way, is inbreeding depression, which is certainly a real thing, and so is outbreeding depression. The very existence of these medical conditions would suggest some kind of middle ground is preferable, but like I said, I don't like how unnatural this makes the marriage/having children process.

[Jad]

I don’t know what’s been going with Avalon lately, but I feel like there’s been a lot of pent up anger visible on more than one thread.. our bodies are nothing but a meat suit and we all bleed red no matter what race we belong to. So let’s not spend too much energy on that and focus on what brought us all to Avalon in the first place: the continuous search for The Truth.

Now back to Hitler! What really intrigues me about this topic is how mainstream history books paint Hitler as the worst person in human history. It’s so entrenched in our culture that if you want to insult a person you would call him/her Hitler! Considering that there has been more savage people like Genghis Khan, one can only wonder why Hitler takes the crown? The crazy part is that the corpse that was supposedly him was actually not him to begin with. A lot of intelligence reports hint that he actually retired in South America.

Let’s assume that Hitler actually retired in Argentina. That means that WW2 was nothing but theatre meant to reshuffle the whole human farm. There were no 2 opposing sides, they both played their roles in this conflict. Hitler did his job and got to spend the rest of his days in peace, the remaining Nazis were integrated in other countries like USA and the secret space program was created behind NASA.

[Mark]

Let’s assume that Hitler actually retired in Argentina. That means that WW2 was nothing but theatre meant to reshuffle the whole human farm. There were no 2 opposing sides, they both played their roles in this conflict. Hitler did his job and got to spend the rest of his days in peace, the remaining Nazis were integrated in other countries like USA and the secret space program was created behind NASA.

Yes, this is a theory I subscribe to, as I believe that there is evidence to support it. The reshuffling occurred forthwith, resulting in the infiltration of the USA at different levels to include the Energy Dept as well as the creation and staffing of the CIA. There are other, older threads here in PA that have gone in-depth down this particular rabbit hole but it is important to realize that the influence that didn't even begin back during WWII but before, has continued and has become an integral expression of the national character of this country to the detriment of the world.

I can remember reading somewhere that after WWII, there was an agreement between the USA and Russia. The Soviet Union took scientists working on the more esoteric and psychic side of things, i.e. remote viewing, telekinesis, etc., while the USA took scientists working on the physical nature of creation, i.e. atomic scientists, astronomers, etc.

The continuing and deepening use of mind control technology out of the USA to incorporate many of the electromagnetic and psychic weaponry tools and techniques came from those times.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

That means that WW2 was nothing but theatre meant to reshuffle the whole human farm. There were no 2 opposing sides, they both played their roles in this conflict.

A lot of theater, yes, but also a lot of legitimate international power plays going on too.

For example, if the US didn't rush into Germany at the last minute, Stalin wanted to take all of Nazi-occupied Europe for himself, all the way into France at least. I think that was the US's real objective in Europe, to stop Stalin from doing that, because we really didn't fight the Nazis as much as hyped. The vast majority of fighting in Europe was between the Nazis and Soviets alone. The US was more involved in the Pacific.

The book No Simple Victory has a lot of statistics bearing all of this out. By stats such as casualty rates, 90+% of the war in Europe was strictly Third Reich vs USSR.



Yes, this is a theory I subscribe to, as I believe that there is evidence to support it. The reshuffling occurred forthwith, resulting in the infiltration of the USA at different levels to include the Energy Dept as well as the creation and staffing of the CIA. There are other, older threads here in PA that have gone in-depth down this particular rabbit hole but it is important to realize that the influence that didn't even begin back during WWII but before, has continued and has become an integral expression of the national character of this country to the detriment of the world.

Exactly. It goes back to WWI and even earlier. The Bush family was already in arms dealing by WWI if I remember correctly, and that was their foothold into later banking for the Nazis. Other military connections were illegally stealing US supplies and sending them to the USSR, totally unrelated to the war effort.

There is another book called None Dare Call It Treason which goes into the other half of the post-war infiltration, which was by Communists. Joseph McCarthy was demonized for no reason. When the USSR collapsed, previously classified papers came into circulation that proved that Soviet spies were crawling all over the US government too. So you had at least three factions struggling for power in the US government after the war.

[BMJ]

I don’t know what’s been going with Avalon lately, but I feel like there’s been a lot of pent up anger visible on more than one thread.. our bodies are nothing but a meat suit and we all bleed red no matter what race we belong to. So let’s not spend too much energy on that and focus on what brought us all to Avalon in the first place: the continuous search for The Truth.

Now back to Hitler! What really intrigues me about this topic is how mainstream history books paint Hitler as the worst person in human history. It’s so entrenched in our culture that if you want to insult a person you would call him/her Hitler! Considering that there has been more savage people like Genghis Khan, one can only wonder why Hitler takes the crown? The crazy part is that the corpse that was supposedly him was actually not him to begin with. A lot of intelligence reports hint that he actually retired in South America.

Let’s assume that Hitler actually retired in Argentina. That means that WW2 was nothing but theatre meant to reshuffle the whole human farm. There were no 2 opposing sides, they both played their roles in this conflict. Hitler did his job and got to spend the rest of his days in peace, the remaining Nazis were integrated in other countries like USA and the secret space program was created behind NASA.

You might want to watch "Hunting Hitler" it is a very well done investigation into Hitler and his henchman, post WW2. Over three seasons also available on DVD.

Link: http://avalonlibrary.net/Hunting%20Hitler/

P.S. I just could not get away from it and watched each season in one sitting I found the series very interesting.

[Praxis]

zvgZtdmyKlI

Found this to be quite relevant to our conversation here.

[Iloveyou]

zvgZtdmyKlI

Found this to be quite relevant to our conversation here.

Excellent. I‘m just afraid that may not come across via only reading the subtitles (although translated accurately) without the German language context.

It‘s the kind of twisting which happens day after day in the two countries (Germany and Austria) where actual, historical Nazism had emerged and grown into collective madness.

Not only had the Nazi elite survived in the US and South America, not only had the Nazi economic and financial powers transitioned seamlessly into pseudo-democratic post-war Germany - their propaganda, their twisted values and perverted morality had also survived in the minds of a large part of the population - and still does, for meanwhile three generations. When called out on their intentions, that‘s what you get (see video above).

[silvanelf]

Found this to be quite relevant to our conversation here.

Excellent. I‘m just afraid that may not come across via only reading the subtitles (although translated accurately) without the German language context.


The clip contains a lot of subtle irony. For example, at first the guy in the uniform claims that he is not a nazi. But during the dialog that guy loses his temper and shouts: "Enough! He insulted the Fuehrer! Arrest him!"

[Seabreeze]

I am extremely allergic towards this subject by now. How come so many people always like to bring it up and up again? It must have a extrem faszination to many..I guess....... This was before I even was born.

By the way Adolf Hitler was born in Austria and not in Germany.........

[Iloveyou]

I am extremely allergic towards this subject by now. How come so many people always like to bring it up and up again? It must have a extrem faszination to many..I guess....... This was before I even was born.

Because it is alive and kicking. In people’s minds, in the zeitgeist generally and throughout all the ranks of politics. It is no longer necessary for people to hide their nazi mindset*. It has become socially acceptable again, for a long time now.

I know there are obvious bigger, contemporary threats. But you can‘t seperate them from another. What neo-nazism does to society serves as a tool to implement total control. And the tragedy is that it is the same with their opposite, the extreme left.

In some European countries where still almost everybody has more or less conscious ties to the Third Reich experience via their family history, the issue is addressed differently than in the US, for example. To leave all that behind and let it become a thing of the past - like, say, the Roman Empire - the collective trauma (which does still exist) must be processed publicly beyond the categories of blame, guilt or shame. That has not happened yet (or only to a very small extent). On the contrary, nazi ideology has been incorporated into the current bigger control systems, directly or indirectly.

How could we just move on! Sure the possibility to just move on lies on the emotional, mental, spiritual level, so that we are able to deal with it in a rational, detached manner.

* What do I mean with nazi mindset:

forced nationalism/patriotism (forced use of symbols, slogans, flags), militaristic structures in society, obsession with national security, close collaboration of military and police, police state mentality, national hubris, use of religious rethoric (any religion including atheism), theories of racial superiority, reinforcement of major corporations, creation of scapegoats, openly controlled media, destruction of labor unions, disdain for intellectual work and arts, old-boy networks and corruption . .



The clip contains a lot of subtle irony. For example, at first the guy in the uniform claims that he is not a nazi. But during the dialog that guy loses his temper and shouts: "Enough! He insulted the Fuehrer! Arrest him!"

It is a fun clip, I had a good laugh. Though the thin layer of irony cannot really conceal the seriousness of the issue. I think it is a great way to deal with it by using humor, irony, sarcasm, even a cartoonish approach, too.

[Wind]

To leave all that behind and let it become a thing of the past - like, say, the Roman Empire - the collective trauma (which does still exist) must be processed publicly beyond the categories of blame, guilt or shame. That has not happened yet (or only to a very small extent).

"Whatever is rejected from the self, appears in the world as an event." - Carl Jung

[silvanelf]

I am extremely allergic towards this subject by now. How come so many people always like to bring it up and up again? It must have a extrem faszination to many..I guess....... This was before I even was born.

Because it is alive and kicking. In people’s minds, in the zeitgeist generally and throughout all the ranks of politics. It is no longer necessary for people to hide their nazi mindset*. It has become socially acceptable again, for a long time now.

I know there are obvious bigger, contemporary threats. But you can‘t seperate them from another. What neo-nazism does to society serves as a tool to implement total control. And the tragedy is that it is the same with their opposite, the extreme left.


Here is a provocative claim: whenever the standard of living goes down or it is at least threatened for a majority, then the specter of fascism appears again on the scene. The leaning towards fascism is just an attitude of "circle the wagons" or "we against them". Whenever the economy is improving for the general population, then the political attitude moves towards the left.

[Seabreeze]

It is alive, because they make sure it stays alive.....

I grew up in Germany and got bombared all my life on TV, magazines or where ever again and again with this subject..this war..which was before I was born. They still talk all the time about retrieval (I hope it is the right word...) and so on...And the local german people still pay for it...even if they been born way later.

For example, a person born in Russia whos grandfather was inprisoned by germans in world war II, gets way better conditions for loans and benefits, when moving to Germany, than the people born in Germany today.This is only 1 example out of many others which exist. I dont really know on what is the plan for how many generations they want to continue this......? We are talking about grand and greatgrandchildren by now......

This is not a subject for me....to make jokes about....sorry.....

And I dont think it is very positive to crowd the peoples minds with wars and very bad parts of human history...again and again..... It only keeps the war thinking alive....is how I think.

This is something which goes totally wrong in the media also....war, war, fighting, killing......puts ideas in peoples mind.......

Sure we should not forget about the past. But we also should not have it as daily subject in our present live either. To recognize the past is important.....but to concentrade into the now and into good and positive things even more, I believe.......

Wherever your mind, your thinking goes most of the time..this is where your energy goes and it does strenghten it..... So I try to recognize whatever appears, but to concentrade into the positive signs around today.......

I dont know on how you would think if you got confronted every year, with the facts on how many native americans got killed when the Europeans came to the US at the first........ Which was about 59 Millions, I heard..........And where is the retrieval in this case? And how come there is hardly any talking about this?

Maybe we should better think about on how we can create a more peacefull and harmonic NOW without the NWO.....:idea:


...have a nice day....:flower:

[Flash]

I am extremely allergic towards this subject by now. How come so many people always like to bring it up and up again? It must have a extrem faszination to many..I guess....... This was before I even was born.

Because it is alive and kicking. In people’s minds, in the zeitgeist generally and throughout all the ranks of politics. It is no longer necessary for people to hide their nazi mindset*. It has become socially acceptable again, for a long time now.

I know there are obvious bigger, contemporary threats. But you can‘t seperate them from another. What neo-nazism does to society serves as a tool to implement total control. And the tragedy is that it is the same with their opposite, the extreme left.


Here is a provocative claim: whenever the standard of living goes down or it is at least threatened for a majority, then the specter of fascism appears again on the scene. The leaning towards fascism is just an attitude of "circle the wagons" or "we against them". Whenever the economy is improving for the general population, then the political attitude moves towards the left.

absolutely right, not a provocative claim at all. Also in war time, even if a given country's economy is good, it will veered towards very conservatives and sometimes fascism values/behaviors.

Those are personal views, I have no research supporting them.

[Hervé]

It is alive, because they make sure it stays alive.....
[...]
Indeed... it has become an "Industry" to keep the propaganda triggered on a continuous loop:



https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1790281240/henry-makow_bigger.jpg Henry Makow‏ @HenryMakow (https://twitter.com/HenryMakow)


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7oBT6ZW4AE_eJL.png

8:53 PM - 27 May 2019
3 replies 14 retweets 17 likes

[Tintin]

Here is a 41 page 2nd Edition of the Richard E. Harwood book: 'Did Six Million Really Die?' available on Archive.org (https://ia800805.us.archive.org/10/items/harwoodeng/harwoodeng.pdf) soberly written and without hysteria; it appears upon scanning it quickly that it has been well resourced.

A supporting article Before and after the “Holocaust”: Jewish population numbers in 1933 and 1948 which may or may not have appeared on the forum already somewhere can also be read here (http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=85432)

Resource:



• Report of The International Committee of The Red Cross , 1948 - Vol. 1 (https://ia800304.us.archive.org/18/items/ReportOfTheInternationalCommitteeOfTheRedCrossOnItsActivitiesDuringTheSecondWorl/Report%20of%20the%20International%20Committee%20of%20the%20Red%20Cross%20on%20its%20activities%20dur ing%20the%20second%20world%20war%20%28September%201%2C%201939%20-%20June%2030%2C%201947%29%20Vol%201.pdf)

Additional volumes can be linked to here (https://archive.org/details/ReportOfTheInternationalCommitteeOfTheRedCrossOnItsActivitiesDuring)

----------

The Jews And The Concentration Camps: A Factual Appraisal By The Red Cross.
There is one survey of the Jewish question in Europe during World War Two and the conditions of Germany's concentration camps which is almost unique in its honesty and objectivity, the three-volume Report of the International Committee of the Red Cross on its Activities during the Second World War, Geneva, 1948.

This comprehensive account from an entirely neutral source incorporated and expanded the findings of two previous works: Documents sur l'activité du CICR en faveur des civils détenus dans les camps de concentration en Allemagne 1939-1945 (Geneva, 1946), and Inter Arma Caritas: the Work of the ICRC during the Second World War (Geneva, 1947). The team of authors, headed by Frédéric Siordet, explained in the opening pages of the Report that their object, in the tradition of the Red Cross, had been strict political neutrality, and herein lies its great value.

The ICRC successfully applied the 1929 Geneva military convention in order to gain access to civilian internees held in Central and Western Europe by the Germany authorities. By contrast, the ICRC was unable to gain any access to the Soviet Union, which had failed to ratify the Convention. The millions of civilian and military internees held in the USSR, whose conditions were known to be by far the worst, were completely cut off from any international contact or supervision.

The Red Cross Report is of value in that it first clarifies the legitimate circumstances under which Jews were detained in concentration camps, i.e. as enemy aliens. In describing the two categories of civilian internees, the Report distinguishes the second type as "Civilians deported on administrative grounds (in German, "Schutzhäftlinge"), who were arrested for political or racial motives because their presence was considered a danger to the State or the occupation forces" (Vol. 111, p. 73). These persons, it continues, "were placed on the same footing as persons arrested or imprisoned under common law for security reasons." (P.74).

The Report admits that the Germans were at first reluctant to permit supervision by the Red Cross of people detained on grounds relating to security, but by the latter part of 1942, the ICRC obtained important concessions from Germany. They were permitted to distribute food parcels to major concentration camps in Germany from August 1942, and "from February 1943 onwards this concession was extended to all other camps and prisons" (Vol. 111, p. 78).

The ICRC soon established contact with camp commandants and launched a food relief programme which continued to function until the last months of 1945, letters of thanks for which came pouring in from Jewish internees.

Red Cross Recipients Were Jews
The Report states that "As many as 9,000 parcels were packed daily. From the autumn of 1943 until May 1945, about 1,112,000 parcels with a total weight of 4,500 tons were sent off to the concentration camps" (Vol. III, p. 80). In addition to food, these contained clothing and pharmaceutical supplies. "Parcels were sent to Dachau, Buchenwald, Sangerhausen, Sachsenhausen, Oranienburg, Flossenburg, Landsberg-am-Lech, Flöha, Ravensbrück, Hamburg-Neuengamme, Mauthausen, Theresienstadt, Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen, to camps near Vienna and in Central and Southern Germany. The principal recipients were Belgians, Dutch, French, Greeks, Italians, Norwegians, Poles and stateless Jews" (Vol. III, p. 83).

In the course of the war, "The Committee was in a position to transfer and distribute in the form of relief supplies over twenty million Swiss francs collected by Jewish welfare organisations throughout the world, in particular by the American Joint Distribution Committee of New York" (Vol. I, p. 644).

This latter organisation was permitted by the German Government to maintain offices in Berlin until the American entry into the war. The ICRC complained that obstruction of their vast relief operation for Jewish internees came not from the Germans but from the tight Allied blockade of Europe. Most of their purchases of relief food were made in Rumania, Hungary and Slovakia.

The ICRC had special praise for the liberal conditions which prevailed at Theresienstadt up to the time of their last visits there in April 1945. This camp, "where there were about 40,000 Jews deported from various countries was a relatively privileged ghetto" (Vol. III, p. 75).

According to the Report, "'The Committee's delegates were able to visit the camp at Theresienstadt (Terezin) which was used exclusively for Jews and was governed by special conditions. From information gathered by the Committee, this camp had been started as an experiment by certain leaders of the Reich ... These men wished to give the Jews the means of setting up a communal life in a town under their own administration and possessing almost complete autonomy. . . two delegates were able to visit the camp on April 6th, 1945. They confirmed the favourable impression gained on the first visit" (Vol. I, p . 642).

The ICRC also had praise for the regime of Ion Antonescu of Fascist Rumania where the Committee was able to extend special relief to 183,000 Rumanian Jews until the time of the Soviet occupation. The aid then ceased, and the ICRC complained bitterly that it never succeeded "in sending anything whatsoever to Russia" (Vol. II, p. 62).

The same situation applied to many of the German camps after their "liberation" by the Russians. The ICRC received a voluminous flow of mail from Auschwitz until the period of the Soviet occupation, when many of the internees were evacuated westward. But the efforts of the Red Cross to send relief to internees remaining at Auschwitz under Soviet control were futile. However, food parcels continued to be sent to former Auschwitz inmates transferred west to such camps as Buchenwald and Oranienburg.

No Evidence Of Genocide
One of the most important aspects of the Red Cross Report is that it clarifies the true cause of those deaths that undoubtedly occurred in the camps toward the end of the war. Says the Report: "In the chaotic condition of Germany after the invasion during the final months of the war, the camps received no food supplies at all and starvation claimed an increasing number of victims. Itself alarmed by this situation, the German Government at last informed the ICRC on February 1st, 1945 ... In March 1945, discussions between the President of the ICRC and General of the S.S. Kaltenbrunner gave even more decisive results. Relief could henceforth be distributed by the ICRC, and one delegate was authorised to stay in each camp ..." (Vol. III, p. 83).

Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the dire situation as far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicit in stating that food supplies ceased at this time due to the Allied bombing of German transportation, and in the interests of interned Jews they had protested on March 15th, 1944 against "the barbarous aerial warfare of the Allies" (Inter Arma Caritas, p. 78). By October 2nd, 1944, the ICRC warned the German Foreign Office of the impending collapse of the German transportation system, declaring that starvation conditions for people throughout Germany were becoming inevitable.

In dealing with this comprehensive, three-volume Report, it is important to stress that the delegates of the International Red Cross found no evidence whatever at the camps in Axis occupied Europe of a deliberate policy to exterminate the Jews. In all its 1,600 pages the Report does not even mention such a thing as a gas chamber. It admits that Jews, like many other wartime nationalities, suffered rigours and privations, but its complete silence on the subject of planned extermination is ample refutation of the Six Million legend.

Like the Vatican representatives with whom they worked, the Red Cross found itself unable to indulge in the irresponsible charges of genocide which had become the order of the day. So far as the genuine mortality rate is concerned, the Report points out that most of the Jewish doctors from the camps were being used to combat typhus on the eastern front, so that they were unavailable when the typhus epidemics of 1945 broke out in the camps (Vol. I, p. 204 ff) - Incidentally, it is frequently claimed that mass executions were carried out in gas chambers cunningly disguised as shower facilities. Again the Report makes nonsense of this allegation.

"Not only the washing places, but installations for baths, showers and laundry were inspected by the delegates. They had often to take action to have fixtures made less primitive, and to get them repaired or enlarged" (Vol. III, p. 594).

Not All Were Interned
Volume III of the Red Cross Report, Chapter 3 (I. Jewish Civilian Population) deals with the "aid given to the Jewish section of the free population," and this chapter makes it quite plain that by no means all of the European Jews were placed in internment camps, but remained, subject to certain restrictions, as part of the free civilian population. This conflicts directly with the "thoroughness" of the supposed "extermination programme", and with the claim in the forged Höss memoirs that Eichmann was obsessed with seizing "every single Jew he could lay his hands on."
In Slovakia, for example, where Eichmann's assistant Dieter Wisliceny was in charge, the Report states that "A large proportion of the Jewish minority had permission to stay in the country, and at certain periods Slovakia was looked upon as a comparative haven of refuge for Jews, especially for those coming from Poland.

Those who remained in Slovakia seem to have been in comparative safety until the end of August 1944, when a rising against the German forces took place. While it is true that the law of May 15th, 1942 had brought about the internment of several thousand Jews, these people were held in camps where the conditions of food and lodging were tolerable, and where the internees were allowed to do paid work on terms almost equal to those of the free labour market" (Vol. I, p. 646).

Not only did large numbers of the three million or so European Jews avoid internment altogether, but the emigration of Jews continued throughout the war, generally by way of Hungary, Rumania and Turkey. Ironically, post-war Jewish emigration from German-occupied territories was also facilitated by the Reich, as in the case of the Polish Jews who had escaped to France before its occupation. "The Jews from Poland who, whilst in France, had obtained entrance permits to the United States were held to be American citizens by the German occupying authorities, who further agreed to recognize the validity of about three thousand passports issued to Jews by the consulates of South American countries" (Vol. I, p. 645).

As future U.S. citizens, these Jews were held at the Vittel camp in southern France for American aliens. The emigration of European Jews from Hungary in particular proceeded during the war unhindered by the German authorities. "Until March 1944," says the. Red Cross Report, "Jews who had the privilege of visas for Palestine were free to leave Hungary" (Vol. I, p. 648). Even after the replacement of the Horthy Government in 1944 (following its attempted armistice with the Soviet Union) with a government more dependent on German authority, the emigration of Jews continued.

The Committee secured the pledges of both Britain and the United States "to give support by every means to the emigration of Jews from Hungary," and from the U.S. Government the ICRC received a message stating that "The Government of the United States ... now specifically repeats its assurance that arrangements will be made by it for the care of all Jews who in the present circumstances are allowed to leave" (Vol. I, p . 649).
----------
Biedermann agreed that in the nineteen instances that "Did Six Million Really Die?" quoted from the Report of the International Committee of the Red Cross on its Activities during the Second World War and Inter Arma Caritas (this includes the above material), it did so accurately.

A quote from Charles Biedermann (a delegate of the International Committee of the Red Cross and Director of the Red Cross' International Tracing Service) under oath at the Zündel Trial (February 9, 10, 11 and 12, 1988).

[petra]

I am extremely allergic towards this subject by now. How come so many people always like to bring it up and up again? It must have a extrem faszination to many..I guess....... This was before I even was born.

I'm more persistent.... I guess! I had a Catholic minister tell me I should stop focusing so much on the darkness, and instead focus on happier things - but I didn't really take it seriously, as he was in the process of researching psychopaths at the time!

Back to Hitler - I haven't read all the postings but I'm beginning to glean some things.

I imagine Hitler did what he did because he "thought he had to"... which is another scary thought I'd prefer not to elaborate on (shudders)

There's another saying too, "If you find the Devil, you go looking for God, and if you find God, you go looking for the Devil". I have no idea where I got that quote - I know it's tricky! The theory seems psychologically sound though. I'm the little Christian Girl obsessed with the Devil - and this Hitler thread is very interesting.

[Iloveyou]

http://www.visibility911.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/orwell_1984_filmea.jpg




https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-2008-0922-500%2C_Reichstag%2C_Begr%C3%BC%C3%9Fung_Adolf_Hitl er.jpg



https://www.cinemaclock.com/images/580x326/52/1984-19566595.jpg


https://vimeo.com/332709692

So let‘s just move on . . . ?

[silvanelf]

absolutely right, not a provocative claim at all. Also in war time, even if a given country's economy is good, it will veered towards very conservatives and sometimes fascism values/behaviors.


Once in a while I confuse the difference between conservative values and fascism, but I think the difference is important. Conservatives try to prevent social changes -- they are called Conservatives because they want to conserve the status quo. We may even include people who would like to turn back the wheel of history by a few decades.

On the other hand fascists are a different kettle of fish -- they try to create an entirely different society based on their strange values. Some authors think that fascists try to uproot the values of the age of enlightenment, meaning the ascent of rational thinking and the "idea" of human rights.

Here is Umberto Eco about fascism:


Umberto Eco Makes a List of the 14 Common Features of Fascism

While Eco is firm in claiming “There was only one Nazism," he says, “the fascist game can be played in many forms, and the name of the game does not change.” Eco reduces the qualities of what he calls “Ur-Fascism, or Eternal Fascism” down to 14 “typical” features. “These features," writes the novelist and semiotician, "cannot be organized into a system; many of them contradict each other, and are also typical of other kinds of despotism or fanaticism. But it is enough that one of them be present to allow fascism to coagulate around it.”


The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.”
The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.”
The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”
Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”
Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”
Appeal to social frustration. “One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.”
The obsession with a plot. “The followers must feel besieged. The easiest way to solve the plot is the appeal to xenophobia.”
The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”
Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.”
Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.”
Everybody is educated to become a hero. “In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”
Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”
Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.”
Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”


http://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html

[Wind]

Farsight Institute has just released this interesting video for free, I bought it some years ago.

It just basically confirms that Hitler escaped probably to Argentina and his personality was split.
Apparently some demon took control of him later in his life and that probably explains all the horrific things.

yXjwovIquGA
Also here's what the Law of One (https://www.lawofone.info/results.php?q=Hitler) states about Hitler:


Questioner: Can you tell us what happened to Adolf [Hitler]?

Ra: I am Ra. The mind/body/spirit complex known [as] Adolf is at this time in an healing process in the middle astral planes of your spherical force field. This entity was greatly confused and, although aware of the circumstance of change in vibratory level associated with the cessation of the chemical body complex, nevertheless, needed a great deal of care.

Questioner: I would now like to ask for the same type of information with respect to Adolf Hitler. You have given a little of this already. It is not necessary to re-cover what you have already given, but if you could complete that information it would be helpful.

Ra: I am Ra. In speaking of the one you call Adolf we have some difficulty due to the intense amount of confusion present in this entity’s life patterns as well as the great confusion which greets any discussion of this entity.

Here we see an example of one who, in attempting activation of the highest rays of energy while lacking the green-ray key, canceled itself out as far as polarization either towards positive or negative. This entity was basically negative. However, its confusion was such that the personality disintegrated, thus leaving the mind/body/spirit complex unharvestable and much in need of healing.

This entity followed the pattern of negative polarization which suggests the elite and the enslaved, this being seen by the entity to be of an helpful nature for the societal structure. However, in drifting from the conscious polarization into what you may call a twilight world where dream took the place of events in your space/time continuum, this entity failed in its attempt to serve the Creator in an harvestable degree along the path of service to self. Thus we see the so-called insanity which may often arise when an entity attempts to polarize more quickly than experience may be integrated.

[Phoenix]

A good time now to rewatch this..

Is anyone still not sure who was right in WW2?

[Cosmored]

Here's some info I've collected.
http://flinttalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=12196&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[loungelizard]

Here's some info I've collected.
http://flinttalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=12196&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


All the links you have provided are to hardcore Holocaust denial sites.
Genocide denial has been around for as long as there has been genocide.


Here's some info I've collected …

Holocaust Controversies - What Part Of The Word Genocide Do You Not Understand?
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com

How To Be A Revisionist Scholar
https://www.jewishgen.org/ForgottenCamps/Exhib/HowtoEngl.html

Holocaust Denial on Trial
https://www.hdot.org

Museum of Tolerance: What is holocaust denial?
http://www.museumoftolerance.com/education/teacher-resources/holocaust-resources/what-is-holocaust-denial.html

USHMM: Holocaust denial and distortion
https://www.ushmm.org/antisemitism/holocaust-denial-and-distortion

http://auschwitz.org/en/history/holocaust-denial/

https://theconversation.com/i-was-an-expert-witness-against-a-teacher-who-taught-students-to-question-the-holocaust-116578

Holocaust Matters
https://www.holocaustmatters.org/what-is-holocaust-denial/

Forbes: Why challenging Holocaust denial and distortion matters
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewelinaochab/2020/01/27/why-challenging-holocaust-denial-and-distortion-matters/#320447c93738

Nizkor: the techniques of Holocaust denial
https://www.nizkor.org/the-techniques-of-holocaust-denial/

Why Do People Say the Holocaust Never Happened?
https://www.kultur.lu.se/media/utbildning/dokument/kurser/SASH65/20151/Holocaust_denial_1.pdf

Nizkor: The IHR's Questions & Answers, and Nizkor's Responses 
http://nizkor.com/features/qar/qar00.html

Historical Fabrications on the Internet
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/217330477.pdf

JVL
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/background-and-overview-of-holocaust-denial

Denialism: What drives people to reject the truth?
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/aug/03/denialism-what-drives-people-to-reject-the-truth

[Cosmored]

All the links you have provided are to hardcore Holocaust denial sites.
Genocide denial has been around for as long as there has been genocide.
I've just seen the info you posted and I've only scanned it. I was looking for a rebuttal to the argument that it was impossible to gas that many people in the manner described and that with the facilities at Auschwitz it would have been impossible to cremate that many bodies. I've never seen those two arguments adequately addressed and they are what made me question the official story. There's a lot of info in your post. Can you link to something that addresses those two issues? Thanks.

[loungelizard]

I've just seen the info you posted and I've only scanned it. I was looking for a rebuttal to the argument that it was impossible to gas that many people in the manner described and that with the facilities at Auschwitz it would have been impossible to cremate that many bodies. I've never seen those two arguments adequately addressed and they are what made me question the official story. There's a lot of info in your post. Can you link to something that addresses those two issues? Thanks.



I've just seen the info you posted and I've only scanned it....I've never seen those two arguments adequately addressed

Seriously?? Many of the sites I linked in post 227 answer your questions, but unfortunately you say you only scanned that post...had you actually read some of the material on those sites, you would have your rebuttals.

You might find these two particularly useful as they both deal with false claims and statements by Holocaust deniers:
https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com



I was looking for a rebuttal to the argument that it was impossible to gas that many people in the manner described


It would help if you could be more specific with your questions. What do you mean by “the manner described”? The Nazis used several different methods: which specific one are you thinking of?


Bottled carbon monoxide gas was used to “euthanise” those deemed “unworthy of life” at centres in Bernburg, Brandenburg, Grafeneck, Hadamar, Hartheim, and Sonnenstein.
The disabled, the mentally ill, the elderly, children, the criminally insane, the terminally ill … were murdered as part of the T4 programme.

Engine exhaust was used in hermetically sealed mobile gas fans for mass killings by the Einsatzgruppe.

Both carbon monoxide and Zyklon B were used in the Death Camps of Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka, and at Auschwitz-Birkenau. The concentration camps of Stutthof, Mauthausen,
Sachhausen and Ravensbruck also used gas chambers.


If you doubt the number of people gassed by the Nazis, go to the Nazis's own documentation. Look up the Hoefle telegram. This report was sent to Adolph Eichmann, and contains detailed statistics on the 1942 killings of Jews at the Aktion Reinhard camps alone as 1,274,166 … in 1942 alone.

Another source corroborating this information is the Korherr Report - commissioned by Himmler and compiled by an SS statistician – which states that the number of Jews in Europe had fallen by 4m by the end of 1942, and concurred that 1.274m Jews had been “processed”.


This (rather technical) piece of research analyses the evolution of the Nazi's war against the Jews through the use of extermination techniques (Operation Reinhard) and explains how such huge numbers of people were killed.
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/1/eaau7292
Quantifying the Holocaust: Hyperintense Kill Rates During the Nazi Genocide

[loungelizard]

... with the facilities at Auschwitz it would have been impossible to cremate that many bodies.


With regard to your second query (the cremation of so many bodies), I think you may be confusing civilian cremation methods with the mass incineration of corpses on an industrial scale that the Nazis carried out.
It's a common error among those who deny the events of the Holocaust. The Nazis did not incinerate bodies one at a time - multiple bodies were burnt together in the same oven: as Hoss, the commandant of
Auschwitz-Birkenau, wrote:
“Depending on the size of the bodies, up to three bodies could be put in through one oven door at the same time. The time required for cremation also depended on the number of bodies in each retort, but on average it took twenty minutes.”

https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/
https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/ab4-civilian-ovens-comparison/
https://www.hdot.org/vanpelt/#


The crematoria used by the Nazis at Auschwitz-Birkenau (and Buchenwald, Belzec, Dachau, Mauthausen and Gusen) were all designed and built by a German engineering firm, Topf and Sons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topf_and_Sons

A total of sixty-six Topf triple muffle ovens were in operation – forty-six of which were at Auschwitz.


Kurt Prufer was the designer and builder of the crematoria. This is a transcription of his memo following a meeting with First Lieutenant Krone of the Works and Buildings Section about Auschwitz's cremation needs.
Original document https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/topf/topf-8-9-42.jpg
It states that the cremation capacity up to 2650 per day, or 80,000 per month was not enough, and more muffles were needed.

Looking at that evidence, it would not have been impossible ... far from it.

To keep it simple, let's just consider two (out of the five) of the largest crematoria at Auschwitz-Birkenau. Those two ovens alone, working at their full estimated capacity of 24 hours a day from their installation in April 1943
to their decommissioning in November 1944, could have incinerated over 1.7 million corpses.
This figure is based on the furnace capacity that the Nazis themselves estimated.
Pressac - Auschwitz: Technique and Operation, 1989, p. 247.

The Nazis estimated that the capacity of their ovens was 1440 per krema per day, but then revised that down to 800.
Gutman et al., Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp, 1994, p. 212.

So, using that lower figure, just under 1,000,000 corpses could be incinerated in 20 months by just 2 of the 5 Auschwitz crematoria.



And then there are the Bischoff letters:
Karl Bischoff served at Auschwitz. He was an engineer and architect, and was responsible for the design and construction of the Auschwitz II-Birkenau camp.
In his letter, of June 28, 1943 to Hans Kammler in Berlin, Bischoff concluded that the crematoria at Birkenau could dispose of 4,756 persons in 24 hours.
https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/ab3-german-documents-ovens/

And don't forget that bodies were also incinerated in open pits as the crematoria were overburdened at times.
https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/ab6-open-air-burning/
https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/or14-grill-design/
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2011/12/belzec-sobibor-treblinka-holocaust.html


Do you still have a problem with the fact that the bodies of 1.1m and 1.5m people were incinerated? :o

[Cosmored]

Thanks loungelizard. I'll take a look at your stuff. In the meantime, what do you think of the stories about soap being made from the prisoners' fat and lampshades being made from their skin?

http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/soap.shtml
http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/libcamps.shtml

Do page searches on "Soap" and "Lampshades" on this page.
https://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com/

Tell me what you think of this too.
https://wearswar.wordpress.com/2018/02/16/auschwitz-chemistry-how-science-proves-the-final-solution-was-systematically-gassing-lice-infested-clothing-to-save-lives/


edit
-------------------------

I found some more info.

https://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=lampshade&fid%5B0%5D=2&sid=6fb28869330ff59dec1d358dd218398c
https://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=soap

[Cosmored]

I just replaced a bunch of dead links in post #2 of this thread.
http://flinttalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=12196&start=0

They were YouTube videos. We all know what's going on with YouTube now.

Here are the new links.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ONE+THIRD+of+the%ef%bb%bf+HOLOCAUST+&FORM=HDRSC3
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=%22Judea+Declares+War+on+Germany%22+&FORM=HDRSC3
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=The+Complete+David+Cole+and+Mark+Weber+on+the+Montel+Williams+Show+&&view=detail&mid=87F8747FE05C4D3DB4C287F8747FE05C4D3DB4C2&&FORM=VRDGAR
https://archive.org/details/1995-Holocaust-Debate
https://www.bitchute.com/video/CkLoELneg3PL/

[Cosmored]

(from post #230)

A total of sixty-six Topf triple muffle ovens were in operation – forty-six of which were at Auschwitz.

According to this video there were fifteen crematory ovens.

Auschwitz Why The Gas Chambers Are A Myth HD
https://archive.org/details/AuschwitzWhyTheGasChambersAreAMythHD
(7:30 time mark)

How do we determine what the real truth is if each side says something different?


At the 39:00 time mark this video deals with the issue of the supposed impossibility of the bodies' being removed from the gas chamber in the manner described in the official story because there would still be enough gas in the chamber to kill the people removing the bodies.

Le Probleme des Chambres a Gaz with ENG SUB
https://altcensored.com/watch?v=Ilx6-Qu7XaY

If you know exactly where in the info you posted this is addressed, could you link to it so that I don't have to spend an hour looking for it? I'm kind of busy right now. Thanks.


edit
----------------------------

Watch at the 1:00:18 time mark too.


another edit
----------------------------

Here's a summery of what Faurisson says in the video so that you don't have to take an hour to watch the video.
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v02/v02p312_Faurisson.html


another edit
-----------------------------


So, using that lower figure, just under 1,000,000 corpses could be incinerated in 20 months by just 2 of the 5 Auschwitz crematoria.

What about this?

https://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com/
(excerpt)
-----------------------------
The camps had between four and twelve ovens each giving 17,520 to 52,560 bodies per year maximum at each camp – this still wouldn’t be possible as you can’t run these ovens non-stop without the metal fracturing. There is also the problem of fuel as each body would need about 40-50 kilograms of coke to burn – there is no record of the massive amount of coke required being supplied. It is claimed that 60-70,000 people were cremated every day. This would require a huge quantity of coke. It requires 40-50 kilograms of coke to cremate one corpse which would require about 2000 tons of coke per day. The operating documents of Auschwitz concentration camp released from the Soviet archives reveal that the entire quantity of coke which was supplied for the crematoria throughout the entire period of the war was only 2,188 tons of coke which is enough to cremate only 60-70,000. Furthermore detailed aerial photographs of Auschwitz which were taken by American, British and South African planes show no signs of huge mountains of coke or huge mass graves or pits and no lines of people waiting outside a gas chamber.
-----------------------------

[Cosmored]

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndgcger.html
(excerpt)
--------------------------------------
This pertains all the more for crematoria IV and V as well as for the sinister Farm Houses (Bunkers) which could have been aired out only via one or two doors. Since they are said to have been equally crammed full of bodies, with the Zyklon B scattered among them, the ventilation time would have been at least one day, the same as was required for ordinary room disinfestations.[139] What is more, ordinary rooms would allow for the removal of the Zyklon B, and generally have windows to facilitate ventilation and are not packed with bodies. Eyewitness testimony telling of work performed without the benefit of gas masks in these 'gas chambers' immediately or shortly after the gassing is thus utterly unbelievable. And even if the workers had worn gas masks - carrying the corpses would have been hard work (causing perspiration! cf. Section 3.1.), and in these rooms high in hydrogen cyanide any such work would have been extremely risky due to the potential for poisoning via the skin.
--------------------------------------

I found the above here.
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/

I've seen a few rebuttals to this on several forums and none of them seemed satisfactory. This seems to close the whole case by itself.


If the below turns out to be true, it'd pretty good evidence that there were no gassings.

https://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com/
(excerpts)
-------------------------------------------
There are NO autopsy reports of any Nazi gassing victims from any western doctors. Although there were many thousands of corpses available in German concentration camps by the end of the war and although at least 1,000 autopsies were performed, none showed any evidence of death by poison gas or poison. Dr. Charles P. Larson made those autopsies to find proof of gassings but found nothing.
-------------------------------------------
No other western doctors ever claimed to have found any forensic medical evidence of gassings either. So, what indicators of gassing were the doctors looking for? Larson gives no answer but the simple fact is that if there had been gassings with carbon monoxide or cyanide, the indications would have been extremely dramatic and readily visible. The corpses would have been bright cherry RED.

[Cosmored]

I'm googling around and I'm finding a lot of stuff that looks promising. I don't have time screen all of this stuff and there might be some white supremacist stuff mixed in. I'm just looking for objective info. Let me make it clear that I think that white supremacists are morons.

https://ww2truth.com/essential-ww2-videos-and-podcasts/

https://www.bing.com/search?q=%22John+Friend%22+holocaust&first=7&FORM=PERE

https://www.bing.com/search?q=%22John+Friend%22+WW2&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=%22john+friend%22+ww2&sc=0-17&sk=&cvid=F2E97B48D7CD4F5FBD6BABF11E4991D5

[Cosmored]

It's a common error among those who deny the events of the Holocaust. The Nazis did not incinerate bodies one at a time - multiple bodies were burnt together in the same oven: as Hoss, the commandant of
Auschwitz-Birkenau, wrote:
“Depending on the size of the bodies, up to three bodies could be put in through one oven door at the same time. The time required for cremation also depended on the number of bodies in each retort, but on average it took twenty minutes.”

There is a theory that he was tortured into "Confessing".

https://codoh.com/library/document/the-auschwitz-gas-chamber-illusion/en/
(excerpt)
------------------------------------
All the main defendants at Nuremberg insisted that prior to the trial they had not known of any mass murder of Jews: except that Rudolf Höss, the former Commandant of Auschwitz, signed on March 15, 1946, a document averring that he had overseen the slaughter of two and a half million Jews, and this was read out on 15th April at Nurnberg. That day signified the birth of Auschwitz's horror-myth. Two weeks earlier, H oe ss had remarked:

"Certainly, I signed a statement that I killed two and half million Jews. I could just as well have said it was five million Jews. There are certain methods by which any confession can be obtained, whether it is true or not."[40]

Decades later, an account was published of how Hoess had been tortured for three days and nights without sleep by a British army team in order to extract that statement.[41]In a letter to his wife, Hoess apologised for his "confessions" and explains that they had been extracted from him under torture[42]. The victorious Allies could not have their "truth" come out at Nuremberg, without the assistance of torture. In 2001, Patricia Meehan discussed the network of secret "Direct Interrogation Centres" the British had set up in their occupational zone of Germany[43]- torture chambers, to prepare "evidence" for the upcoming trials. A Zionist influence was noted at the Nuremberg trials,[44]not least concerning the figure of six million.

[ralfy]

Related: "The European Atrocity You Never Heard About" (https://www.chronicle.com/article/the-european-atrocity-you-never-heard-about/)


Between 1945 and 1950, Europe witnessed the largest episode of forced migration, and perhaps the single greatest movement of population, in human history. Between 12 million and 14 million German-speaking civilians—the overwhelming majority of whom were women, old people, and children under 16—were forcibly ejected from their places of birth in Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Yugoslavia, and what are today the western districts of Poland. As The New York Times noted in December 1945, the number of people the Allies proposed to transfer in just a few months was about the same as the total number of all the immigrants admitted to the United States since the beginning of the 20th century. They were deposited among the ruins of Allied-occupied Germany to fend for themselves as best they could. The number who died as a result of starvation, disease, beatings, or outright execution is unknown, but conservative estimates suggest that at least 500,000 people lost their lives in the course of the operation.

[loungelizard]

Thanks loungelizard. I'll take a look at your stuff.

Have you done that yet? :blushing:



In the meantime, what do you think of the stories about soap being made from the prisoners' fat and lampshades being made from their skin?

Why suddenly drop in such a trivial topic out of the blue??

Most historians do not believe that soap was mass produced from human remains, a fact corroborated by Deborah Lipstadt, who wrote:
"Fact is that there is no evidence Nazis ever used the bodies of Jews, or for that matter anyone else, for the production of soap.
The soap rumor was thoroughly investigated after the war and proved to be untrue."




Tell me what you think of this too.
https://wearswar.wordpress.com/2018/02/16/auschwitz-chemistry-how-science-proves-the-final-solution-was-systematically-gassing-lice-infested-clothing-to-save-lives/

What do I think of John Wear? Clearly, he’s quite bonkers. This brilliant blog sums up his “work” for me:
https://wearswarts.wordpress.com

[loungelizard]

According to this video there were fifteen crematory ovens.

Yes. But you're not understanding the difference between 'ovens' and 'muffles': each muffle is an oven.
To make it really simple for you:

Auschwitz II Krema II had 5 triple muffle furnaces = 15 ovens
Auschwitz II Krema III had 5 triple muffle furnaces = 15 ovens
Auschwitz II Krema  IV had 8 single muffle furnaces = 8 ovens
Auschwitz II Krema V had 8 single muffle furnaces = 8 ovens

TOTAL = 46 ovens.

How about focusing on the bigger picture here, rather than trying to catch me out on details? Look at the mountains of evidence - photos, films, tens of thousands of eye witness statements,
blueprints, letters, orders, documents ... and, of course, the camps themselves. Go and visit some of those.

[loungelizard]

this video deals with the issue of the supposed impossibility of the bodies' being removed from the gas chamber in the manner described in the official story because there would still be enough gas in the chamber to kill the people removing the bodies.



No, there wouldn't.

If that was true, then the corpses of people executed using cyanide gas in US gas chambers would have to remain untouched for hours after they have been executed.
But the manual states, “About a half an hour later, orderlies enter the chamber...” because there is a ventilation system installed.

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions/methods-of-execution/description-of-each-method

The Nazi gas chambers were empty concrete rooms, some of which were forcibly ventilated to recycle the air.

There are documents which prove that a fitter from Topf & Söhne named Heinrich Messing installed exhaust fans in the Auschwitz II crematoria and also in the gas chambers.
https://www.welt.de/kultur/history/article12277320/Die-Ingenieure-des-Todes-kamen-aus-Erfurt.html

There is the blueprint of the ventilation system design here: http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/othercamps/images/chamberventlation.jpg

In the case of gas chambers without forced ventilation systems, the Sonderkommandos who took the bodies out wore gas masks.
And actually, I don't really think the SS were bothered about the health of the Sonderkommando who removed the corpses from the gas chambers and cremated them.
They were operating under a death sentence anyway.

Again, the rebuttal to your claim is very simple. Ventilation and/or gas masks.

[Cosmored]

Why suddenly drop in such a trivial topic out of the blue??

Most historians do not believe that soap was mass produced from human remains, a fact corroborated by Deborah Lipstadt, who wrote:
"Fact is that there is no evidence Nazis ever used the bodies of Jews, or for that matter anyone else, for the production of soap.
The soap rumor was thoroughly investigated after the war and proved to be untrue."
It seems that this wasn't just a rumor. It seems to be part of the official story, therefore, an official lie. A known official lie is pretty serious. If there's one lie, there may be more lies.

There are other known lies in the official story. Have you listened to these speeches of Hitler's?

Adolf Hitler Explains His Reasons For Invading The Soviet Union
https://archive.org/details/AdolfHitlerExplainsHisReasonsForInvadingTheSovietUnion

Adolf Hitler - Why Germany Invaded Poland
https://altcensored.com/watch?v=pe0gIdVgeow

The Ultimate Red Pill
https://videopress.com/v/yEE5RRgZ

He was telling the German people and soldiers that they were the good guys. Americans are taught that the German people and soldiers were thinking of expanding their territory during the war. Maybe Hitler was lying to them but we know they weren't thinking what Americans are taught they were thinking.



If that was true, then the corpses of people executed using cyanide gas in US gas chambers would have to remain untouched for hours after they have been executed.
But the manual states, “About a half an hour later, orderlies enter the chamber...” because there is a ventilation system installed.
If I remember correctly the prison gas chambers in the US had a system in which a neutralizing substance was injected after the ventilation. I'll look for it.

Start watching this video at around the 4:00 time mark.

Tehran Holocaust Conference 2006: Prof. Robert Faurisson - Victories of Revisionism - part 2/2
https://archive.org/details/youtube-Ne3nYJxU6SM

According to this guy and some other people I've listened to, it's more complicated than you make it sound.



Yes. But you're not understanding the difference between 'ovens' and 'muffles': each muffle is an oven.
To make it really simple for you:

Auschwitz II Krema II had 5 triple muffle furnaces = 15 ovens
Auschwitz II Krema III had 5 triple muffle furnaces = 15 ovens
Auschwitz II Krema IV had 8 single muffle furnaces = 8 ovens
Auschwitz II Krema V had 8 single muffle furnaces = 8 ovens

TOTAL = 46 ovens.

This can be resolved I suppose. I tried to find the blueprint but I can't expand it enough to be able to see the details.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=auschwitz+cr%c3%a9ation+room+blueprint&id=42184E747202B3B7298AF76C47D4BB2D9BC6215C&form=IQFRBA&first=1&scenario=ImageBasicHover

Can you do something with this?


Tell us what you think of this. Go down to where it says, "The Technically Impossible Cremation Claims".
https://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com/

The analysis given there is different from yours.



How about focusing on the bigger picture here, rather than trying to catch me out on details? Look at the mountains of evidence - photos, films, tens of thousands of eye witness statements,
blueprints, letters, orders, documents ... and, of course, the camps themselves. Go and visit some of those.

Here's the revisionist version of the witnesses argument.
https://codoh.com/library/document/witnesses-to-the-gas-chambers-of-auschwitz/en/

Do a page search on witness on this site.
https://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com/

There's a lot of stuff.


I'd like to hear your view on this.

https://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com/
(excerpts)
-------------------------------------------
There are NO autopsy reports of any Nazi gassing victims from any western doctors. Although there were many thousands of corpses available in German concentration camps by the end of the war and although at least 1,000 autopsies were performed, none showed any evidence of death by poison gas or poison. Dr. Charles P. Larson made those autopsies to find proof of gassings but found nothing.
-------------------------------------------
No other western doctors ever claimed to have found any forensic medical evidence of gassings either. So, what indicators of gassing were the doctors looking for? Larson gives no answer but the simple fact is that if there had been gassings with carbon monoxide or cyanide, the indications would have been extremely dramatic and readily visible. The corpses would have been bright cherry RED.


I was in a hurry when I made this post. I'll come back and add more to it later.

[Cosmored]

I'm going to watch this tomorrow.

Germar Rudolf: The Chemistry of Auschwitz—Buna Rubber, Zyklon B, Prussian Blue and the Gas Chambers
http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/ChemistryOfAuschwitz-4th.mp4


edit
-------------------------------------

Here's some more stuff.

http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/38-cl.pdf
https://www.historiography-project.com/books/faurisson-on-the-holocaust/auschwitz-witnesses.php
http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/35-coa.pdf
http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/02-tcoa.pdf
http://www.holocausthandbooks.com/dl/36-aerapcoth.pdf

I got the above from here.
http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=2

There's a lot more there.

[loungelizard]

It seems that this wasn't just a rumour. It seems to be part of the official story, therefore, an official lie.r.

What are you basing that statement on?
No one yet knows with absolute certainty whether or not soap from human bodies was made at the Danzig Anatomical Institute. The investigation of evidence continues.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/27667954



A known official lie is pretty serious. If there's one lie, there may be more lies.


That tactic - to sow doubt about the veracity of the Holocaust by taking apparent inconsistencies and blowing them out of all proportion - is key to denialist propaganda.
Deniers are constantly overstating The Soap Myth with the sole purpose of trying to negate the Nazi genocide.

Mark Weber has made no fewer than 11 false claims about the Nazis manufacturing soap commercially . Each of these has been thoroughly debunked here.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-soap-allegations

The rumours about soap - the same rumours that circulated in WW1 - seems to have originated from guards at the camps telling the inmates that the soap they had been given was made from human flesh.




There are NO autopsy reports of any Nazi gassing victims from any western doctors.
Because the Nazis incinerated almost all the bodies of the victims they gassed.


... although at least 1,000 autopsies were performed, none showed any evidence of death by poison gas or poison. Dr. Charles P. Larson made those autopsies to find proof of gassings
Larson carried out these autopsies at concentration camps - mainly Dachau - not the death camps. He, and the other doctors, only had access to camps in the Allied sector and therefore couldn’t have carried out autopsies at the extermination camps such as Auschwitz. People were rarely gassed at Dachau - the prisoners died mainly of natural causes, including typhus.


... but found nothing.

Not true, despite the above.

Read his book, "Crime Doctors". Dr. Larson did find evidence of murdering people with cyanide at Dachau this is from his book:

"The majority died of natural diseases of one kind or the another. However, we did probe into such questions as, ‘What happened to those prisoners who became psychotic at Dachau? What did the Gestapo do with them?’ Well, they took those people to the crematorium. First, however, they were taken to a big windowless building next to the crematorium where the ceiling was covered with false shower heads. The victims were then ordered to strip and take a ‘shower.’ Outside the building, guards dropped in cyanide pellets. Then they’d blow the cyanide gas out and remove the bodies next door to the crematorium ovens. I think this is what happened to most of the truly psychotic prisoners and those they considered unruly and unmanageable and who, in the Gestapo’s opinion, were incorrigibles. But, in my opinion, only relatively few of the inmates I personally examined at Dachau were murdered in this manner. Still, medical facilities were totally inadequate. When people fell hopelessly ill and death was imminent, and when they grew so weak they could no longer work or function, they were taken to the cyanide room for disposal. The Nazi called them ‘mercy killings’ because there was no hope of them getting well. Actually, the Germans considered them a liability, and extermination was the answer.”

[loungelizard]

If that was true, then the corpses of people executed using cyanide gas in US gas chambers would have to remain untouched for hours after they have been executed.
But the manual states, “About a half an hour later, orderlies enter the chamber...” because there is a ventilation system installed.
If I remember correctly the prison gas chambers in the US had a system in which a neutralizing substance was injected after the ventilation. I'll look for it.



You’re thinking of ammonia. That was only used as a back up during executions - once the room had been ventilated, ammonia was sometimes used because the victim was wearing clothes, and the cyanide gas could be trapped in pockets etc. In addition, there was furniture in the room where gas could accumulate.

The victims of Nazi gassings were naked. They were in empty concrete rooms. No need to use a neutraliser.

And you’re missing a key point, again. You're viewing this through the safety of 21st century eyes. The Sonderkommandos who removed the bodies were dispensable. They were mainly Jewish - no one cared about any risk to them of accidental poisoning.

[Cosmored]

And you’re missing a key point, again. You're viewing this through the safety of 21st century eyes. The Sonderkommandos who removed the bodies were dispensable. They were mainly Jewish - no one cared about any risk to them of accidental poisoning.

The revisionists' argument is that the people who supposedly removed the bodies after the ventilation would have started getting sick within a few minutes of entering the gas chamber and it would have been impossible to remove the bodies this way continuously. Therefore, this story is a fabrication.

Tehran Holocaust Conference 2006: Prof. Robert Faurisson - Victories of Revisionism - part 2/2
https://archive.org/details/youtube-Ne3nYJxU6SM

They don't say that those people could have kept it up for a few weeks before dying.


The believers say that leuchter was incompetent to do the study he did...
https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/ab12-leuchter-report/

...but wasn't his work confirmed by a real expert?

Germar Rudolf: The Chemistry of Auschwitz—Buna Rubber, Zyklon B, Prussian Blue and the Gas Chambers
http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/ChemistryOfAuschwitz-4th.mp4



That tactic - to sow doubt about the veracity of the Holocaust by taking apparent inconsistencies and blowing them out of all proportion - is key to denialist propaganda.
What they're doing is looking for lies and impossibilities in the official story. What about the lampshades-made-from-human-skin story? It seems to be part of the official story — not just a rumour.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/Buchenwald_Human_Remains_74066.jpg/220px-Buchenwald_Human_Remains_74066.jpg


They're not trying to be underhanded. They see this as a deliberate lie in order to deceive. If you think they're mistaken, just explain why you think that.


Also, I couldn't find a blueprint of the Auschwitz facilities that shows the ovens with the details big enough to make them out. I want to count the ovens. Could you try to find something?

[loungelizard]

The revisionists' argument is that the people who supposedly removed the bodies after the ventilation would have started getting sick within a few minutes of entering the gas chamber and it would have been impossible to remove the bodies this way continuously. Therefore, this story is a fabrication.

Historical research isn’t a “he said, she said” game. :argue: Just because the deniers or historians make a claim does not mean it's true.

You seem to be ignorant of historical method: primary, secondary and material EVIDENCE is needed in order to reach any conclusion. The deniers have no primary, secondary or material EVIDENCE to support their claims, therefore they cannot be considered to be true.

The EVIDENCE of gas chambers in the extermination camps is vast and irrefutable, however much you choose to ignore it.

Just to be clear…
You deny that there was any forced ventilation system in the extermination camps?
You deny that the Sonderkommandos working in chambers without such a system wore gas masks?
You deny that gas masks offer protection against poisoned gas?
You deny that the US execution chambers use ventilation and technicians can enter within minutes following an execution?








The believers say that leuchter was incompetent to do the study he did...
https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/ab12-leuchter-report/

Yep.

Leuchter was exposed as an incompetent fraud at the trial of Zundel. He had to admit that he had no training as a toxicologist, and wasn’t even an engineer.
Real experts have shown his work to be junk science, using flawed methods and arriving at false conclusions not based on evidence.

You seem to be basing many of your beliefs on the Leuchter Report, which is why you’re making so many false claims.

An example? Leuchter stated that there were no ventilation systems in the gas chambers. Wrong. Blueprints show ventilation ducts. Physical evidence at the Birkenau shows ventilation ducts. Eyewitness testimonies confirm ventilation systems - Saul Chazan, a Sonderkommando working Crema, stated “The ventilation was installed in the walls. You wouldn’t notice it; all you could feel was the chill. You could hardly hear it. There was a metal cover with openings and cold air came in almost the entire length of the wall. The ventilation worked all the time; it was turned off only when the gas was thrown in.”




...but wasn't his work confirmed by a real expert?

Germar Rudolf: The Chemistry of Auschwitz—Buna Rubber, Zyklon B, Prussian Blue and the Gas Chambers
http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/ChemistryOfAuschwitz-4th.mp4

Germar Rudolf??
Don’t waste your time with him: you’d be far better off getting out in to the sun and wind and enjoying your precious life than wallowing in his work which has debunked many times - using EVIDENCE.

https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/not-the-science/
https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/
https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/blue/

Did you know that, in the end, Rudolf admitted that the argument deniers is useless?

He wrote:
"Furthermore, I am convinced that chemistry is not the science which can prove or refute any allegations about the Holocaust "rigorously".

That is an admission by the foremost chemist of Holocaust denial that chemistry is not sufficient to prove that the Holocaust did not happen. Totally contrary to the conclusion of his ‘report’.

Damning stuff.






What about the lampshades-made-from-human-skin story? It seems to be part of the official story — not just a rumour.

"Part of the official story"? What does this mean?



They're not trying to be underhanded. They see this as a deliberate lie in order to deceive.

Your obsession with minutae is breathtaking: whether there was a lampshade made of human skin is entirely irrelevant in the face of the avalanche of EVIDENCE proving that the Nazis carried out genocide against millions of people.

It smacks of desperation … you can’t dispute the reality of evidence about the best-documented genocide in history so you grasp at inconsequential straws.
Even you can't claim, for example, that the 50 million documents held in shelves 15 miles long in the archives at Bad Arolsen are all fake.
https://arolsen-archives.org/en/

It’s clearly absurd to do that, so deniers cling desperately to any tiny apparent lack of exactness and then take a leap of faith to say this proves that the Holocaust never happened.

It’s so transparent and twisted as to be difficult to believe - for those of us with rational minds.




I want to count the ovens.

Seriously? :ROFL:

[Cosmored]

Historical research isn’t a “he said, she said” game. Just because the deniers or historians make a claim does not mean it's true.

You seem to be ignorant of historical method: primary, secondary and material EVIDENCE is needed in order to reach any conclusion. The deniers have no primary, secondary or material EVIDENCE to support their claims, therefore they cannot be considered to be true.
Of course I know that. I just wanted you to address their whole argument. Judging by what you said, you didn't seem to be aware of their whole argument. Here it is again.

Tehran Holocaust Conference 2006: Prof. Robert Faurisson - Victories of Revisionism - part 2/2
https://archive.org/details/youtube-Ne3nYJxU6SM



The EVIDENCE of gas chambers in the extermination camps is vast and irrefutable, however much you choose to ignore it.
I've never seen anything that seemed irrefutable.



You deny that there was any forced ventilation system in the extermination camps?
Those documents you posted might be genuine, and they might be bogus. Documents aren't proof of anything because the person who drew them up might have been a paid sophist who worked for a public-relations firm. If you know of a way to confirm their validity, please post it.



You deny that the Sonderkommandos working in chambers without such a system wore gas masks?
I don't know whether they did or not. If I remember correctly, the revisionists said they didn't. If the believers say they did, we shouldn't just believe the believers. That's not the scientific method. I don't see how it can be demonstrated either way.



You deny that gas masks offer protection against poisoned gas?
They filter out what's in the air but, according to the revisionists, what they allegedly used in the gas chambers also sticks to the skin. The people removing the bodies can get it on their skin and be poisoned.



You deny that the US execution chambers use ventilation and technicians can enter within minutes following an execution?
All I know is what the videos I watch say. I have no background in this. If a supposed expert says that in a video, I'm not one hundred percent sure that it's true but I think there's a good chance that it's true.



An example? Leuchter stated that there were no ventilation systems in the gas chambers. Wrong. Blueprints show ventilation ducts. Physical evidence at the Birkenau shows ventilation ducts. Eyewitness testimonies confirm ventilation systems - Saul Chazan, a Sonderkommando working Crema, stated “The ventilation was installed in the walls. You wouldn’t notice it; all you could feel was the chill. You could hardly hear it. There was a metal cover with openings and cold air came in almost the entire length of the wall. The ventilation worked all the time; it was turned off only when the gas was thrown in.”
Can you link to that? I remember seeing that somewhere but it would take me an hour to find it. If I remember correctly, that's what the director of the Auschwitz museum said but it wasn't confirmed.



Did you know that, in the end, Rudolf admitted that the argument deniers is useless?

He wrote:
"Furthermore, I am convinced that chemistry is not the science which can prove or refute any allegations about the Holocaust "rigorously".

That is an admission by the foremost chemist of Holocaust denial that chemistry is not sufficient to prove that the Holocaust did not happen. Totally contrary to the conclusion of his ‘report’.

Damning stuff.
It'll take me a while to look at the info in those links. I'll have to get back to you on this one.





What about the lampshades-made-from-human-skin story? It seems to be part of the official story — not just a rumour.

"Part of the official story"? What does this mean?


Check out this video.

Buchenwald - A Dumb Dumb Portrayal Of Evil - P1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuYxqJj-ZoI

It looks like it was a deliberate lie with the intent to deceive. If this doesn't at least make you suspicious, you don't seem like an objective truth-seeker.



Your obsession with minutae is breathtaking: whether there was a lampshade made of human skin is entirely irrelevant in the face of the avalanche of EVIDENCE proving that the Nazis carried out genocide against millions of people.
I've never seen this avalanche of evidence. Could you post some of it. I haven't looked at the info you posted on Germar Rudolf but it may turn out to be sophistry. If it turns out to be proof that the gas chambers were real, I'll be the first one to say so; I don't have a foregone conclusion. I just want to know what the real truth is.

If Germar Rudolf says there are blue stains on the walls of the delousing facilities but no blue stains on the gas chamber walls, that's something to take into serious consideration.



Even you can't claim, for example, that the 50 million documents held in shelves 15 miles long in the archives at Bad Arolsen are all fake.
https://arolsen-archives.org/en/
I didn't know about this. Give me some time to look at it.



It’s clearly absurd to do that, so deniers cling desperately to any tiny apparent lack of exactness and then take a leap of faith to say this proves that the Holocaust never happened.

It’s so transparent and twisted as to be difficult to believe - for those of us with rational minds.

I've seen a mountain of what looks like serious research done by serious people. Your description of their position is wrong.
https://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com/
http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=38
http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/38-cl.pdf
http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/ChemistryOfAuschwitz-4th.mp4
http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/35-coa.pdf
http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/02-tcoa.pdf
http://www.holocausthandbooks.com/dl/36-aerapcoth.pdf
https://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=1003
http://holocausthandbooks.com/

Do you think the people who come up with this info believe it themselves? Do you think they're deliberately lying? What do you make of all of this?





I want to count the ovens

Seriously?


Your attitude is not that of a truth-seeker. If one source gives one figure and another source gives another figure, it's natural to want to see the blueprint and see what the truth is.

[loungelizard]

Hi Cosmored

I finally found time to check back here, and was ready to go through the material you've posted … but something about the way you are responding on this thread just wasn’t right.
Your posts are getting more outrageous, as if you’re playing some sort of game and trying to provoke a reaction.

So I checked your online activity - and you are, of course, notorious.

On Spurstalk, you state that you’ve been a member of almost 100 forums:

“I started talking on forums in 1996. I think I've discussed stuff on close to a hundred forums. It's just a hobby. Most of them are very intolerant of anything that goes against the
official version of things so the moderators usually find an excuse to close or delete my threads and ban me. “
(on that forum, they actually have a thread entitled, “Now can we ban Cosmored? Please?!”)

It seems you register all over the place under different user names, including:
Cosmored, Cosmored2, David C, Rocky, Rocky2, Rocky3, Fat Freddy, Fat Freddy 88, TomSip, Scott, Scott Stol… Someone on one of the forums you frequent has even made a
couple of videos on YouTube of all your incarnations!
And someone else has a blog which presents “a straight reply to duplicate posts made by one person on hundreds of forums” and deals with the hoax videos and links you keep posting:

The forums you have been active on are completely diverse and random - and none of them are relevant to the material you post.
Flinttalk, Grasstalk, Spurstalk, AlienHub, Vivapets, Golfmagic, Tennis.com, Chessforum, shroomery, Mountain-goats, comicsbulletin, pravda, 9/11 forum, International Skeptics forum …
and on all of them, all you do is link spam and paste walls of text and videos by talking heads.

As a result of this, you’ve received VERY negative responses from everyone you’ve interacted with on these forums, with accusations of mental illness, shilling, trolling, refusal to respond
to questions etc etc. And yet, you persist. Your content never changes. You paste the same material repeatedly and ignore any rebuttals, replying by just pasting more links - on GiraffeBoard,
your tag is “I’m a dirty spammer”.

So now, I’m beginning to understand … finally. I’m a member of only one forum - here - and can be pretty naive about online behaviour, taking people at face value and giving them the benefit
of the doubt for at least a couple of posts.

But I still don’t get why you’re doing all this :blushing:

[Cosmored]

Your posts are getting more outrageous, as if you’re playing some sort of game and trying to provoke a reaction.
What's outrageous about the stuff I've posted? I just find research that other people have done and post it so that it can be seen by all and analysed.



It seems you register all over the place under different user names, including:
Cosmored, Cosmored2, David C, Rocky, Rocky2, Rocky3, Fat Freddy, Fat Freddy 88, TomSip, Scott, Scott Stol… Someone on one of the forums you frequent has even made a
couple of videos on YouTube of all your incarnations!
I get banned sometimes just because I'm winning the debate. Here's an example.
https://www.giraffeboards.com/showthread.php?t=31034
(see post #561)

I'm blocked from posting on that forum but the word banned doesn't appear by my username. The moderator changed the title of the thread.

Sometimes when that happens, I register again with another username and keep debating. If that never happened, I'd still have only one username.



The forums you have been active on are completely diverse and random - and none of them are relevant to the material you post.
There's usually an off-topic section where other stuff can be discussed. Those sections are full of stuff unrelated to the main subject of the thread.



all you do is link spam and paste walls of text and videos by talking heads.
Do you call the above link I posted Spam? Spam is unwanted advertising in emails. The public-relations firms that the government hires to engage in damage-control co-opted the word spam to describe the alternative version of issues.



As a result of this, you’ve received VERY negative responses from everyone you’ve interacted with on these forums, with accusations of mental illness, shilling, trolling, refusal to respond
to questions etc etc
Those posters are paid sophists* who work for the PR firms.

They're easy to corner in debates. I've got a few of them checkmated here.
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/psychology-of-conspiracy-theorists.144995/page-34#post-3649083

This is when I usually get banned at forums. I'm surprised that I haven't gotten banned there yet.



Your content never changes.
I get asked the same questions so I give the same answers.



refusal to respond
to questions etc etc. And yet, you persist. Your content never changes. You paste the same material repeatedly and ignore any rebuttals, replying by just pasting more links
Look at the above thread. I responded to all the serious questions. Most of those responses were just trash posts. Point out something legitimate that I didn't respond to.



But I still don’t get why you’re doing all this
There's so much censorship on the internet that putting stuff on a lot of forums is the only way I know of to get the word out. Try putting something that goes against the official version in the comment section in Yahoo news. It won't appear.

Lots of people spend several hours a day watching soap operas and reality shows. In my spare time I like to check out stuff that doesn't make it through the censors. When I find something that looks important that gets censored, I get the urge to share it.

Here are some examples.
http://www.flinttalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=12196&start=0
http://www.frostcloud.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16100
https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=285865
https://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/politics-economics/3615430-anti-vaccine-movement.html

I can't see why this is bad. If an argument is wrong, it will finally be shown to be wrong by its lack of merit. They ban me and delete my posts because they can't show that my arguments don't have merit.

Here's an example.
http://www.frostcloud.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16096

Here's the another link to the video in post #1 which doesn't work any more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn6MTrin5eU

The shills working that forum couldn't discredit what I was saying so the moderator simply closed the thread.


*
https://www.clubconspiracy.com/counter-intellegience-tricks-and-techniques-t4702.html
(exerpts)
----------------------------------
4) They tend to operate in self-congratulatory and complementary packs or teams. Of course, this can happen naturally in any public forum, but there will likely be an ongoing pattern of frequent exchanges of this sort where professionals are involved.
----------------------------------
6) Artificial Emotions. An odd kind of 'artificial' emotionalism and an unusually thick skin -- an ability to persevere and persist even in the face of overwhelming criticism and unacceptance. This likely stems from intelligence community training that, no matter how condemning the evidence, deny everything, and never become emotionally involved or reactive. The net result for a disinfo artist is that emotions can seem artificial. Most people, if responding in anger, for instance, will express their animosity throughout their rebuttal. But disinfo types usually have trouble maintaining the 'image' and are hot and cold with respect to pretended emotions and their usually more calm or unemotional communications style. It's just a job, and they often seem unable to 'act their role in character' as well in a communications medium as they might be able in a real face-to-face conversation/confrontation. You might have outright rage and indignation one moment, ho-hum the next, and more anger later -- an emotional yo-yo. With respect to being thick-skinned, no amount of criticism will deter them from doing their job, and they will generally continue their old disinfo patterns without any adjustments to criticisms of how obvious it is that they play that game -- where a more rational individual who truly cares what others think might seek to improve their communications style, substance, and so forth, or simply give up.
----------------------------------
They may work in teams, supporting each other and giving the illusion of popular support on the net. (Remember, net IDs are basically free, and one person can have many.)
----------------------------------

[loungelizard]

Thank you for the explanation about why you do what you do. Based on that, it would seem that you are out there to “spread the word”, with an evangelical zeal, like any true believer.

It’s curious the way we live in alternative realities. You sincerely seem to believe that you’ve “won” the debates, or that they shut you down because they couldn’t deal with the truth.
I have to say, as an outside observer, a quick glance through your threads shows that that’s not what actually happened … at all :facepalm:




What's outrageous about the stuff I've posted?


It’s outrageous that you profess to thinking white supremacists are ‘morons’ in post 235, while linking to the blog of a renowned white supremacist in that very same post.

It’s outrageous that you may not realise that the Holocaust denial websites you frequent (at to which you have posted links here repeatedly) are run by and populated by those
white supremacists - along with a smattering of neo-Nazis, far-right nationalists, racists, bigots and anti-Semites: David Irving is best buddies with David Duke, Zundel wrote a book
entitled, “The Hitler We Loved and Why” and Carto founded Liberty Lobby that advocated white supremacy and a hatred of Jews, and the neo-Nazi National Youth Alliance before he started IHR…

It’s outrageous to dismiss the accounts of perpetrators and eye witnesses with claims of coerced testimonies, conscious fabrications, or as psychotic delusions (and for the record, Hoess’s
confession was not obtained through coercion: he chose to write his extensive memoirs after he had received a sentence of death. Min fact, many admissions of guilt from Nazi leaders
were recorded after their sentencing, and therefore they had no reason to lie. Look at the words of the Einsatzgruppen commander Otto Ohlendorf and Adolf Eichmann, both of whom
explicitly used the term “gassing the Jews”, as did SS-Untersturmführer Hans Stark.)

It’s outrageous for you to refuse to examine any of the overwhelming historic evidence while voicing your strongly-held opinions -

I've never seen this avalanche of evidence.

It’s outrageous to throw out repeated accusations of sophistry and forgery in a knee jerk reaction to any challenge, without offering any evidence to support those claims.

It’s outrageous to believe that anyone who challenges your belief system are paid shills, while failing to question the motives of those whose agenda they (and you) are promoting.
There are reasons and motivations behind Holocaust denial. Incidentally, who, in your opinion, is paying these shills?

It’s outrageous to fall for the opinions of anonymous and unaccountable talking heads - such as Denierbud aka Mike Smith aka Dean Irebodd aka Budly in your post 247 - on YouTube while
universally ignoring or dismissing the work of tens of thousands of academics, scholars, professional historians, researchers, forensic scientists, lawyers etc from around the globe who have been
investigating and researching this period of history for more than 70 years.

In fact, by its very nature, Holocaust Denial itself is outrageous: it is “grossly offensive to the sense of right and decency” as it denies facts and blatantly obvious truths.