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jmaf6556
1st May 2014, 01:01
Let's do this: https://sites.google.com/site/jmaf6556/united-earth-confederation

GoodETxSG
1st May 2014, 03:42
As I read through it, is it much different than a re-branded new age esoteric version of a Centralized Global Government and Global Religion? Other than the added metaphorical daisies and butterflies I do not see much difference in the end result. What people yearn for, wish for and strive for almost always becomes manipulated by lower vibration beings in disguise who have the same agenda to the same end... centralization... domination... power over the mind/spirit... illusion of freedom... misdirection with platitudes and broken promises of utopia...

I admit I do not fully understand this ideology, I have just seen how new age beliefs have been created and exploited since the 1700's to vector us to where we actually are now.

I am happy to admit I am wrong, But I have to point this out with all that I have been told to be leery of right now with dis-info and seductive/misleading doctrines.

IMHO... yet I am open to a non biased and fully logical outline of a new way that will prove me wrong...

Lifebringer
1st May 2014, 11:53
I stay away from google/goggles, sorry. Got enough hackers/virus and cookies on a daily basis. Google is developing AI at this stage, and I want to give them a run for their money, if they are buying everything up to find stuff out. I don't have a gmail, and barely use my yt page. Somebody's got to have a safe haven from them. Off the grid of search engines, and a very good protection and removal system, tell me not to use the Goggles. Don't invite the vampire in, and if you go to the site, always scan to remove the ticks/leeches and cookie trackings in the link.

My little band aid for why these things happen.

jmaf6556
2nd May 2014, 01:27
GoodeTXSG, it's much different, as I've written freedom and equality are the number one and two values. I've also explicitly stated "there's no central ruling power". I've put a lot of thought into it, I think it'd be worth it for you to read through it thoroughly and give it a chance.

NancyV
2nd May 2014, 03:19
Very nice, jmaf6556. I'm sure many of us are drawn to all the wonderful and noble goals of this proposed United Earth Confederation.

BUT (there's always a but) it will never work....period. Idealists and do-gooders tend to ignore human nature and human history because it will prove every time that humans are not able to co-exist in peace, love and harmony here on earth for more than short periods of time, if ever. That's just the plain simple fact.

Now, if we know that humans never have, in thousands of years of recorded history, lived without wars, oppression, violence, discrimination, etc etc, why would one ignore this fact and think they could change it? I think it's because when we begin to evolve spiritually on an individual level and we start to feel the love and recognize just how powerful it could be, we assume that EVERYONE will be able to evolve to that point or will WANT to evolve. They don't want to and they simply will not.

So as warm and fuzzy as this desire to form a United Earth Confederation is, not only will it not happen but it is extremely naive, ignorant and a huge waste of time promoting and chasing a goal that has never and will probably never be realized.

Normally when one is further along in their individual evolution they tend to accept reality (whatever that is) and realize that everything actually is perfect as it is. They just didn't have the capacity in their early stages of spiritual awakening to understand that their own personal evolution should progress a LOT more before they start proselytizing to others. Then when they are even MORE evolved they would not engage in proselytizing at all.

Ultimately this is all a game here, the duality game, and I don't take it extremely seriously. If these guys who are pursuing the United Earth Confederation want to play that game, more power to them. At least they will learn the very valuable lesson of how to deal with losing a game. Their chances of winning this game are probably zero. I like to play games where I have at least a 30% chance of winning.

jmaf6556
2nd May 2014, 03:42
Nancy, thank you for the comment. With all due respect, this sounds like a defeatest attitude in the face of something that may absolutely have to be done. True, many of us are in no position to proselytize, but the only choices are this or continue on as souls trapped in a system, I'm not aware of anything else that could be worth doing instead.

Paul
2nd May 2014, 04:25
Nancy, thank you for the comment. With all due respect, this sounds like a defeatest attitude in the face of something that may absolutely have to be done. True, many of us are in no position to proselytize, but the only choices are this or continue on as souls trapped in a system, I'm not aware of anything else that could be worth doing instead.

One can defend the impossible by labeling reluctance as defeatist.

I will confess however that arguing in favor of the impossible, on the grounds that there is only one alternative, that sucks worse, is similarly unconvincing to me.

Logic that is that clearly black and white seldom models reality adequately for such conclusions to be justified.

When trapped between a rock and a hard place, I tend to make the minimally necessary delaying moves with my right hand, while I free style observe and ponder possibilities with my left hand. So far, there has always been a way. Some day, there won't be, at least not in this present body.

jmaf6556
2nd May 2014, 04:39
It's not about what's possible, it's about what else is there to do with your life besides all you can to make a positive difference, if not for us then to make it more possible for your children and their generation.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Whether or not I've created a United Earth Confederation, I've at least planted the seeds for one.

NancyV
2nd May 2014, 06:07
Nancy, thank you for the comment. With all due respect, this sounds like a defeatest attitude in the face of something that may absolutely have to be done. True, many of us are in no position to proselytize, but the only choices are this or continue on as souls trapped in a system, I'm not aware of anything else that could be worth doing instead.
I don't see us, at least I don't see myself, as trapped in a system. I have found many things that were worthwhile for me to do in my time here, not the least of which was learning how to leave the system by going out of body and seeing the entire thing from a different perspective. We are not trapped here since one can leave at any time either while alive or after death.

When you say "worthwhile" you have to realize that we each have our own idea of what WORTH is. The only thing of true value I have found is love. If you love trying to make the world a better place then what you are doing is worth your time. I love other things so they are worth my time. I am not worried about my children and grandchildren's future because they were born at this very time by their own choice for their own reasons and I honor their decision to come here into what may be a very interesting time in history. (Interesting as in the Chinese curse "may you live in interesting times").

Perhaps this world is a place with constant strife for a reason. It could be a training ground for those of us who choose to come here or it could be a gaming matrix where we come to play intense games. Whatever the reasons are for it being the way it is you do have an absolute right to try to make the game into whatever game you choose to play.

We could call your game the "World Peace Game". (or as I call it, whirled peas). I personally have enjoyed many different games and when I tell you that your world peace game has little chance of success it is not from a defeatist view. It's more from an odds makers view. I like to look at the odds when assessing things and I would be willing to give any odds and bet just about anything that the world peace game will not succeed. But I've been wrong before and I'm always happy to be proven wrong. So I wish you much luck in your quest.
:)

jmaf6556
4th May 2014, 09:59
Hi everyone, there's now a Facebook page for the United Earth Confederation, a group working to unite Earth using an organizing model prioritizing oneness, equality, freedom, truth, and devotion, to help solve the world's sustainability and poverty problems. If you'd like to help make it a reality, like and share it: https://www.facebook.com/United.Earth.Confederation

Azt
4th May 2014, 10:46
Sorry to say but the day a Facebook page changes the world you tell me , changes are made by hands, in loco and by actions , not with like and share buttons behind a computer ...

Hawkwind
4th May 2014, 11:09
Sorry to say but the day a Facebook page changes the world you tell me , changes are made by hands, in loco and by actions , not with like and share buttons behind a computer ...

True, but a thousand hands working together toward a common goal can accomplish much more than they could separately. This forum provides a focal point around which people have gathered. If something similar came together on Facebook it could be very beneficial in terms of gathering and disseminating information.

mpennery
4th May 2014, 12:19
Sorry to say but the day a Facebook page changes the world you tell me , changes are made by hands, in loco and by actions , not with like and share buttons behind a computer ...

I find this discussion fascinating for it's endurance. Facebook is an obvious intelligence gathering operation yet people persistently say, yeah, but we'll use it to organize and work against the powers. Can both sides be right? I don't see how but I'm open minded.

I had a facebook account for a couple months several years ago. I personally saw it as a waste of time, materialistic competition and an excuse for people I had left behind long ago to unfortunately find me. Then to my surprise I noticed you cannot delete a facebook account. That alone should tell you a little something.

Hey, I do have good news and I am curious if others are seeing the same thing. In my little world it seems Facebook is only popular with people who were surfing around the time of it's implementation and it's popularity is diminishing. I have an 18-year-old son and not only does he and very few of his friends not use facebook, they laugh about it as if those who do are uncool and wasting their time. Their attitude mirrors my own...that facebook is a substitution for "doing." I wonder if this is just a phenomenon in my own little neck of the woods or a larger trend?

My wife occasionally uses facebook so I'm not criticizing. I tease her about it, too.

Also, to Hawkwind, I understand your argument and that organizing and coming together is obviously very positive but I see a big difference between facebook and sites like Project Avalon. One was created by government intelligence agencies to spy on people and the other was created to enlighten. At least, not knowing Bill Ryan personally or his history, I guess I could be mistaken. ;-)

Matt

GoodETxSG
4th May 2014, 16:57
This is a duplicate Thread if I am not mistaken (Which I have been on many occasions) Is this the same song second verse? Or a Thread Merge Situation?

Threat (1) on this same topic... Can you explain the purpose of a second thread? No criticism just a little confused...

Thread: An Earnest Proposal to Form a United Earth Confederation/BY:jmaf6556
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?70978-An-Earnest-Proposal-to-Form-a-United-Earth-Confederation&p=829319#post829319

Maybe we should merge these threads? IMHO...

jmaf6556
4th May 2014, 17:04
I agree it takes work to change the world, and fortunately for us a lot of work was put into this idea, its foundation and promise are its principles, not the Facebook likes and shares. These online networks are one of the only major tools the common people have. I encourage you all to read the description on the About page.

jmaf6556
4th May 2014, 17:08
GoodeTXSG, the links in the threads are different.

GoodETxSG
4th May 2014, 18:14
Yet the EXACT Same Topic... Never mind.
If a new link comes out on another day it is normal to then post it further down in the same Thread/Topic. Other wise we end up having "An Earnest Proposal to Create a United Earth Confederation (2), (3), (4)..." etc...

It makes for a more tidy Forum format and people who are following/posting do not get confused and skip around to post or double post thoughts by mistake. Just IMHO and how most people post... But I guess its a effective way to keep your topic on the main page.

its more of a MOD issue.:tape:


GoodeTXSG, the links in the threads are different.

Billy
4th May 2014, 18:24
This is a duplicate Thread if I am not mistaken (Which I have been on many occasions) Is this the same song second verse? Or a Thread Merge Situation?

Threat (1) on this same topic... Can you explain the purpose of a second thread? No criticism just a little confused...

Thread: An Earnest Proposal to Form a United Earth Confederation/BY:jmaf6556
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?70978-An-Earnest-Proposal-to-Form-a-United-Earth-Confederation&p=829319#post829319

Maybe we should merge these threads? IMHO...

Thank you, Threads merged.

Peace

Yetti
4th May 2014, 19:14
NANCY You are right!! period. We can't put aside the fact of humans are like they are, because the spiritual genetic imprint we have for eons , and unles everyone individually don't take action on re- educate ourselves FROM CERO ! AND RE-ARRENGE OUR BRAIN DAMAGE,we're going nowhere!, We need to say : OK here we are, and from now on I want to learn real history, real human behaviour ,find out where I came from ,who i am, how my actions change my surroundings of phisical and non phisical reality,understand that others coul be in the same track or still asleep , sharp our nose to smell from the distance those who try to keep us in ignorance or try to shape the way we are to act according to their agenda!. Live long and prosper!

yelik
9th May 2014, 13:07
Hi Yetti
I agree with you and Nancy to some extent. I have an engineering and financial background so I always try to gather the facts to gain more knowledge and understanding which is an ongoing process, unfortunately not everyone in the world has the same idea or inclination to question and simply find out for themselves, they simply cannot be bothered because many are likely trapped by either debt or everyday living.

I agree with Nancy to the extent that the reality is that we are where we are, like it or not, money still rules the world and the elitist psychopaths know this. Trying to change the people and moral operation of our banks, governments, religions and corporations so they see the light and suddenly develop empathy and good moral standards is a bit like hoping a hungry lion will lick you instead of eating you. However that does not mean we should not try to use whatever means we can, opportunity favours the prepared mind as they say. There are many examples where humans have won despite all the odds.

In my opinion anyone or any group that tries to achieve change for the better, need to be clear about how and what. We must do so with full understanding of the situation and what our own motives are, and, does everyone have the same ones including the strength, capability and resources to take forward such a plan. You can rest assured that everything that goes on in the world, both good and bad is planned down to the absolute last detail, military style, every scenario is played out with contingencies and what if scenarios, nothing happens by chance or is left to chance – that is how the world is largely governed and controlled.

If you were to ask anyone what they would like to change in the world many would say something like, we need to live in peace and harmony, rid ourselves of fossil fuels so we can save the planet and get rid of pollution, end world poverty and hunger, take care of the old and vulnerable, end all wars, stop the mass spying, re-distribute wealth more fairly, stop spending trillions on weapons of war, tell us the truth about ET and share the hidden technologies so we all have a go at travelling to the stars beyond the speed of light and even a bit of time travel. The question is what an individual or group can do about it. Now at this point the elitist know that human nature is such that most if not all will back out because they believe they are fighting a losing battle, so they keep winning.

The elitist do not care a dot about who knows what, as long as they do nothing. What starts as a spark of an idea, becomes a trickle and then………..who knows. Not that I am particularly religious but look how the teachings of Jesus spread by his disciples, perhaps we are all disciples for positive change one way or another, but we must not do nothing or ever give up.

Thinking about the awakening how can people make effective change against a powerful and corrupt system and government with huge resources. If all Avalon members focused specific thoughts onto a target, say re-programming Rothschild mind so that has respect humanity, might it work? Who knows, do we really have dormant ESP capabilities.

When trying to better understand what has being going on in our world over recent years I put together a brief history of man which paints a rather dismal picture, although I am conscious one does have to be careful not to use information that only supports your own ideas. Anyway I have attached a link below. It needs correcting and updating. I did post a thread entitled ‘13 pages’ the other day.
https://drive.google.com/?tab=wo&authuser=0#my-drive

Regards
Ian

peterpam
9th May 2014, 13:52
Let's do this: https://sites.google.com/site/jmaf6556/united-earth-confederation



Dear jmaf6556,

I wanted to let you know that I am very proud of what you are doing. Not because I believe it will come to fruition, because like many others here I don't see humans having the capacity, desire, or the courage for that matter to institute such a change. But, I find it refreshing that you are stepping outside of your own interests with the goal of helping humanity, and you are doing this at the age of 27. At the same age I was so engrossed in myself that I would never have been able to do what you are doing.

Most of us will find that what we do to change the world or to uplift the consciousness of mankind will appear to be ineffective. That includes contributing to this forum. I am sorry you have been met with discouragement on your thread. The modification of consciousness is a process and one upance from those who feel they are further down the road is discouraging to me and may well be to you also. So I say to you, thank you, thank you, thank you, for caring enough about the planet and humanity to look for a solution.

With much respect,

Pam

jmaf6556
9th May 2014, 21:47
Yelik and others, I agree we need to be specific and clear about our exact goals, and fortunately a lot of groups have already done this and created organizations. I think it's just a matter of the rest of us joining, staying connected with, and paying attention to them, instead of continuing to follow the mainstream media and the manipulation that heads it, thinking change is too hard and won't accomplish anything, and therefore not even trying.

Milneman
10th May 2014, 02:14
1. What's the fundamental difference between this and the United Nations? It seems to me that what this web page is describing is what the founders of the UN had in mind. If you change the building, or the head of the organization, or the name, it's still the same isn't it?

2. You mention that the prospective members are to include plants and minerals. Does this mean that consumption of plants would be a violation of a species right to exist? In which case, what does the federation propose human beings and animals eat?

3. Nowhere do I see in this document the mention of a very, very important word. Where has truth a place in this new world order you propose to create?

jmaf6556
10th May 2014, 04:47
Milneman, thank you for your thoughtful post.

1. I agree there's no point in creating a duplicate of something already existing. I haven't done a ton of research, but if you read the Wikipedia article on the UN, the "Membership" section says members must carry out binding obligations, and the "Security Council" section says "the Security Council has the power to make binding decisions that member states have agreed to carry out", which are inconsistent with the principle of freedom. Also according to the "Security Council" section, the UN has five permanent members who have special powers, which is inconsistent with the principle of equality, this is a major aggrievance and something many non-permanent members have had issues with, and I think rightfully so. I don't think true unity is really found on Earth, or we'd have a much better world, this is why I wrote this document and think it's original.

2. I don't think plants mind offering their energy to sustain humans for the good of the whole, so yes we can eat them, we just realize they too are living beings, take their wills too into consideration, and don't treat them with unnecessary disrespect.

3. I agree truth is a key word, which you'll see if you read the "Purpose of Life" page on the website I've put up. At one point I even had the last sentence read "May Earth be united, live in harmony, be free, and know truth". The reason I don't have it in there is I think we now know what truth is, it's unity, harmony, freedom, and so on, in other words these values are and shed light on truth, preceding it. To me "truth" feels a little heavy, a little too contrived to be mixed in with the other words describing happiness. And just as a reminder, this is no new world order, it's a union of free equals and the polar opposite in many ways.

Yetti
13th May 2014, 01:56
Thank you Ian ( Yelik) Yes I understand perfectly your point of view, It"s not an easy task to change all the things we don't like, but I'm very convinced that WE are the ones who need to change , and teach by example, Instead of impose behaviors and patterns to others witch has been the story of the world for a long time , and seems not working yet. As you mention Jesus, he was teaching by example sowing the people how to behave and counseling instead of mandate this or that. ( a good source of this you can find it into: THE URANTIA BOOK)
Speaking about the : solving the worlds problems, yes the answer is us, we are the problem. Analizing this w/a cold mind, you end up with 2 basic problems attached together Too much people in the planet, The monetary system does not fit everyones need, etc... And: IGNORANCE . This is one of the basic problem we need to solve. Too many people thinking : Ahh my religion says I do not need birth control cause is against gods law !!!! B.S! This people are ignorant ass holes, do not know the simple fact they need to support a big family and that cost a lot of Money they usually they not HAVE! leading this folks to an extreme poverty, and more of the same! , I write this down because I saw this Happens several times before my own eyes in south America, and is like a vicious circle. We are in the position to do something,:teach our children to not be stupids, and do not do such things and show them the consecuencies of a cultural misconduct do to the society and the planet.
I don't think we can make the lion lick his pray, but there is many other thigs we can do as a community, so I will throw a proposal to the air and wait to see what's happen, and how many can embrace the idea. Here it is : Just think galactically and act locally. Go thru our day by day life as we usually do but with a twist, try all the time to have present what our acts can affect the environment, people around us and the situations we create for us in a daily basis,Because We can create our reality, and I prove tis by myself several times with small goals ,and works.
Live long and prosper. and stay thisty my friend! TAKE XX BEER.

jmaf6556
15th May 2014, 07:18
Hi everyone, this is one more announcement as we've changed our name: https://sites.google.com/site/jmaf6556/united-earth

Nasu
15th May 2014, 07:51
Hi everyone, this is one more announcement as we've changed our name, may we do this: https://sites.google.com/site/jmaf6556/united-earth

Ok... Sign me up. I love the idea. I would be honored to be an early bird adopter. As I am sure you have anticipated, constructing a brave new paradigm as you have, once the seed has been planted and it grows some shoots, it's growth is out of your control, if control is even an applicable word in this context. "people" as you mention, will ad to it, it will become its own animal.

So in a spirit of constructive criticism from a prospective member of a United Earth "party" I have these few observations on the web page / manifesto / seed.. It could do with being more concise, IMO most of this text could be in an intro preamble page, leaving the mission statement clean and crisp, an elevator pitch if you like, short and to the point. You mention that "There are agreements, but not enforced laws" IMO, without penalty there is no dis incentive for a desperate, poor or criminal underclass to thrive. Personally I would adjust it slightly to something like - There may be agreements between people, groups or nations with or without penalty under international law"

The last thing is purely subjective, I think the page looks crap. The pics of space nearly lost me, but I persevered. If I had to describe it to someone I would call it new agey. Again, it's just my nothing of an opinion, but I think we could lose quite a few merely by the pages look and feel. Web trawlers and potential viral members are savvy to these things, if this is serious, we need to be mindful of these things too. My suggestion here is keep it simple. Justified text, modern font, larger font, wight as is. It's very close. These are me grumbling about the hair in the pasta, it really is a great idea.... N

GoodETxSG
15th May 2014, 11:28
IMHO its the same subject and should be posted under your original Thread on this subject. People keep an eye on "New Posts" so if you want to keep you topic in discussion it will pop to the top each time someone posts. You may want to merge this 3rd thread with the original out of Forum etiquette. It may save Moderators work as well... I do see it is an update to the Groups change of Name, an announcement etc...

Thread: An Earnest Proposal to Form a United Earth Confederation
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?70978-An-Earnest-Proposal-to-Form-a-United-Earth-Confederation

Paul
15th May 2014, 12:20
Let's do this: https://sites.google.com/site/jmaf6556/united-earth-confederation


Hi everyone, this is one more announcement as we've changed our name, may we do this: https://sites.google.com/site/jmaf6556/united-earth


IMHO its the same subject and should be posted under your original Thread on this subject. People keep an eye on "New Posts" so if you want to keep you topic in discussion it will pop to the top each time someone posts. You may want to merge this 3rd thread with the original out of Forum etiquette. It may save Moderators work as well... I do see it is an update to the Groups change of Name, an announcement etc...

Thread: An Earnest Proposal to Form a United Earth Confederation
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?70978-An-Earnest-Proposal-to-Form-a-United-Earth-Confederation

I merged the previous thread announcing a "United Earth Confederation" with this new thread, announcing the name change to a "United Earth".

GuyFox
15th May 2014, 12:28
I am in favor of a Dis-United, decentralised Earth.

Instead of a NWO (New World Order), I want to see:

TLD (Traditional Local Democracy)

Is anyone with me on this?

ghostrider
15th May 2014, 23:35
we should simply be earth human beings ... no divisions ... follow the laws of creation , all life is sacred , elect the smartest people , everyone work 4 hrs a day then everything one needs is provided for ... all wealth should be shared equal ... everyone work for the good of everyone ...etc ... crime punished by one serving the sentence no parole ... no back room deals between lawyers and judges , the law applied equal to everyone ...

jmaf6556
16th May 2014, 00:36
Thank you everyone for the comments.

Nasu, thanks for the feedback, I'm working on changing things as needed. The page is already so dry I'm surprised you want it even more concise, although I too like brevity. IMO non-penalization is as essential as non-violence, I think the true and best penalty is refusal and denial of unified action and service thereafter, which I've mentioned. I agree eventually a more substantial website would be needed, I think this would be after there's more interest and people and groups involved, as I don't really desire to do all this myself. If you want to be more involved, let's stay connected.

GuyFox, the write up is specific about the United Earth having free, independent, sovereign, autonomous members and no central ruling power, which is different from being dis-united. To me unity simply means unified action, coordination, and cooperation, which I think we need to create a sustainable civilization and end environmental destruction and poverty.

mojo
16th May 2014, 01:35
yes because there are no super-heroes...;)

kMLBYcciiqw

GuyFox
16th May 2014, 01:51
Thank you everyone for the comments.
. . .
GuyFox, the write up is specific about the United Earth having free, independent, sovereign, autonomous members and no central ruling power, which is different from being dis-united. To me unity simply means unified action, coordination, and cooperation, which I think we need to create a sustainable civilization and end environmental destruction and poverty.

Are you saying:
You are free to do as you want, but (of course) everyone will agree to do what is sensible.

But - guess what? - Much of the time, people will not agree, especially where a sacrifice is involved. Look at car owners in the USA. It is completely obvious that Americans need to give up driving so much, and live differently, if they are going to have a viable future. But how many are willing to do that? Gasoline prices should be 2-3X the present level, as they are in most of the world. This is obvious and sensible IMHO

In YOUR ideal world, how would it work?
Would the sensible people be able to force high gasoline taxes on the rest of the community? Or would they be free to go with life as usual, using military might to face down those countries who might try to raise the Oil price.

This is a real life dilemma, so how do you resolve it?

It is on the way to being resolved by a Dollar crisis IMHO. Would you see a different solution?

we-R-one
16th May 2014, 05:46
GoodeTXSG, it's much different, as I've written freedom and equality are the number one and two values. I've also explicitly stated "there's no central ruling power". I've put a lot of thought into it, I think it'd be worth it for you to read through it thoroughly and give it a chance.

Hello jmaf6556,

It’s much different? Doesn’t look like it to me…. Why are you promoting Agenda 21 concepts on your site? Do you know what Agenda 21 is and who’s behind it? If you want ‘freedom and equality’ and ‘no central ruling power’, you better yank some of these organizations off your site as they are proponents/supporters of the UNITED NATIONS and by having them on your website you’re saying to me and everyone else you’re in favor of its nefarious plans, otherwise why would you be honoring them with an endorsement and listing them on your site? At first glance, in its current state, I would run from your movement as fast as I can due to some of the organizations you’ve suggested. THE UNITED NATIONS has yet to demonstrate they have their spiritual house in order!

What is Agenda 21?
UN Agenda 21/Sustainable Development is the action plan implemented worldwide to inventory and control all land, all water, all minerals, all plants, all animals, all construction, all means of production, all energy, all education, all information, and all human beings in the world. INVENTORY AND CONTROL.----Rosa Koire

This site will aide you in your understanding…. and just so you know it’s not a ‘democrats against republicans’ type of thing, it is/will be affecting all of us for generations to come if allowed to continue.
http://www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com/

You know how long it took me to vet your site?...less than one minute. In that short time frame I was able to identify 4 organizations tied to Agenda 21 and the UNITED NATIONS. Why? Because I’ve taken the time to understand and educate myself on what Agenda 21 is, who’s funding it, how it’s being implemented in the UNITED STATES, the buzz words associated with it, and the people supporting its foundation. I’m getting so good at it, I can almost do it in my sleep, not kidding…lmao, and it’s not a talent I like bragging about, in fact it annoys me that I’ve had to spend so much time exploring such a devious concept. When you truly absorb its intentions, you will see why it can no longer be ignored, as it’s poised to affect every facet of your life and why you have to be careful whether participating or forming any type of group.

If you’re sincere about starting a movement you cannot afford to overlook Agenda 21 and its blueprint as there are thousands and thousands of NGO’s/organizations promoting its policies and procedures waiting for people like you who don't know to get sucked into their web of lies and deceits with the intention of building a new structure of systems and beliefs off the backs of the people only to be turned and used against them when it’s all said and done. Agenda 21 aka FUTURE EARTH is everywhere!

The best advice I can give to protect yourself and your ‘movement’ is making sure that you know everything and I mean EVERYTHING behind Agenda 21 because it’s so embedded into your country’s policy making via executive order #12852, that you will find it almost impossible to avoid. And should you ever choose to seek funding, there’s a high chance some NGO with UNITED NATION ties will come to the aide of your new ‘sustainable’ venture further drawing you in a mess you might not be able to get out of….look none other than the Thrive Movement who’s in the same situation right now as many of its ‘pioneers’ are UNITED NATION advisers, followers, fund recipients and even manual writers for AGENDA 21!

See my comments to Foster Gamble on his site….scroll down, I made three comments as we-R-one , no answer as of yet : http://www.thrivemovement.com/agenda-21-q-a-foster-gamble.blog

Rosa Korie did respond to my comments on her site you have to scroll towards the bottom of her page:
http://www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com/1/post/2012/10/uncontrolled-opposition.html

I’m not going to tell you who the other organizations are on your site because I want You to do the homework yourself or you’ll never learn. And if I sound like your mom, GOOD! And if I sound like a hard a$$, good, because I don’t want you ever to forget this conversation! And though I know you don’t know me, this message is sent with much love with only the intent to help you and your movement be the best it can be by helping you understand the importance of building a knowledge base. Good on you for getting off the couch to make a difference, I respect you for your efforts, may you persevere. I’m sorry I will not be able to respond further to yours or anyone elses questions, but those that know me might be able to offer suggestions or clarity to my stance. I wish you well.


P.S No ‘system’ is going to change what’s happening to our world, …never has, never will. At this point in the game of duality the problem needs to be dealt with on an energetic level above anything else, as everything around you is energy; by addressing this aspect first you are establishing a <foundation> for living in a better world, a new paradigm! Know that everything you think and do has an energetic impact on the ‘energy fields’ as beliefs, thoughts and actions all vibrate at frequencies. Do you want to live in a world of love or fear? Spirituality first and foremost, heart center behavior, no more eye for an eye, and the rest will begin to fall into place as higher vibrational individuals will learn to live in cohesion, love and as one. To continue ignoring this factor will only lead us down the same yellow brick road we’ve been on time and time again. You are the future, your energy, is what matters right now and as slow as it seems change is happening.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52810-The-Solution-Is-In-Full-Swing-Are-You-On-Board

Nasu
17th May 2014, 04:25
Thank you everyone for the comments.

Nasu, thanks for the feedback, I'm working on changing things as needed.  The page is already so dry I'm surprised you want it even more concise, although I too like brevity.  IMO non-penalization is as essential as non-violence, I think the true and best penalty is refusal and denial of unified action and service thereafter, which I've mentioned.  I agree eventually a more substantial website would be needed, I think this would be after there's more interest and people and groups involved, as I don't really desire to do all this myself.  If you want to be more involved, let's stay connected.

GuyFox, the write up is specific about the United Earth having free, independent, sovereign, autonomous members and no central ruling power, which is different from being dis-united.  To me unity simply means unified action, coordination, and cooperation, which I think we need to create a sustainable civilization and end environmental destruction and poverty.
 
Thank you for your well meaning and measured reply. In the hopeful spirit of your idea being a growing, evolving, living document for the beterment of mankind, I think, like cleaning the kitchen, it will never be completely done, it may never be finished... 

Respectfully on your point of penalties, I disagree, here's why. 

Refusal or denial of services to my group, from your group or the wider group, because for whatever reason we threatened, damaged or broke the intent or good faith of our agreement, IS violence against my group. 

Whether you bomb my clan or starve them of resources or technology, you are in fact against me in every measurable way. The Chinese have an old but simple phrase, those who treat me well are my allies, those who do not, are not.... Your actions are war talk, or mine and our choice is to submit to the wider authority, or die. Not much of a choice, therefore we will choose war, if we are screwed either way, what do we have to lose?

THEY say, never fight with an enemy who has nothing to lose...

Finding coping mechanisms for our Human frailties such as anger, jealousy, ambition and greed are in my mind, a better use of our time than imagining a world of complete and utter world peace, or a universe of peace for that matter. It is after all something our species has never achieved once in our recorded history. If there is a case or two that slipped passed my gaze, their civilization clearly could not hold the peace for very long, in relative terms.

An agreement without penalty is toothless and thus worthless. All penalties that effect the well being of the group, weather the group is service to self, service to others or unified conciousness, are in fact a violent action against the group....

My thinking is that maybe your ideas and system reflect closer the ideals of anarchy in its truest form. Have you looked into the anarchy model much? 

I do agree with we-R-one, that we all must be careful, even coming from a place of good intent, NOT to do the work of our enemies for them, agenda 21 is very real, have you had the time to look into it much? The most insidious part of it is that on the surface it looks so well meaning. Hands up who hates the environment? Hands up who Dosent care about Amazonian deforestation? Hands up who likes inequality? Hands up who likes unvaccinated children dying painfully? It's insidious....

Warmest wishes... N

GuyFox
17th May 2014, 06:18
TOO BAD:
No one here can deal with the practical truths and reality that get in the way of a fantasy.

Read this:
"follow the laws of creation , all life is sacred , elect the smartest people , everyone work 4 hrs a day "

How's that working out so far?
What do you plan to do to change it.

I am NOT IN FAVOR of unity, except when it happens by accident, rather than through some Globalist's command.

http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/mans-hand-holding-up-pitchfork-against-blue-sky-sami-sarkis.jpg

Out a Fork into it !
Let's retain our freedom instead !

jmaf6556
17th May 2014, 07:40
GuyFox, members would be free and independent, i.e. not dependent on one another, so connection to disagreeable behavior could easily be sacrificed. Also, I'm not proposing a global commanding force, remember that freedom and self-responsibility is key in this organizing model, everything is volitional, with just the benefits of unified action motivating members to work together.

Nasu, I agree nothing finite is perfect and complete, yet we can do the best we can.

I think there's a big difference between choosing not to do something and penalizing someone. Females who choose not to be in relationships with individual males aren't acting violently, and they always have this choice, which members of this Union too would. If you think in terms of karma, action and reaction, the first maintains peace, while the latter ruins it.

Also, just because something hasn't been achieved doesn't mean it can't be, this is what evolution is about, progress of some kind is always being made. And spiritually and philosophically unity, peace and love, is the ideal, might as well shoot for it.

Regarding anarchy, I think some kind of organizing model for uniting people is helpful, although I also think a controlling government isn't ideal.

We-R-One and Nasu, I haven't looked into Agenda 21 yet, but here are my present thoughts: the alternative to these groups is nothing at all, no other groups I'm aware of are successfully working for sustainability. So although the groups have flaws, they're preferable to certain non-action, non-sustainability, and death. People against Agenda 21 could form their own groups working for sustainability without Agenda 21, but to me this doesn't seem likely to happen. It's like, if we're not going to do a better job ourselves, we can't complain.

Maia Gabrial
17th May 2014, 11:03
IMO we should be trying to round up and incarcerate those who have turned this world into what it is today. THEN start thinking about forming a new world. As long as those criminals exist, they will ruin whatever we come up with.

And then again, as long as we freedom loving and free willed people exist, we'll ruin THEIR plans! HA!

GuyFox
18th May 2014, 00:32
"I'm not proposing a global commanding force, remember that freedom and self-responsibility is key in this organizing model..."

OK.
So what makes you think people will agree with your idea?
What if THIS does not happen:
"follow the laws of creation , all life is sacred , elect the smartest people , everyone work 4 hrs a day "
What if some people do not accept that program - how do you plan to discipline them, to bring them in line with the rest?

If you are going to go ANYWHERE with this concept, you need to be able to face the issues, and answer the sort of questions that I am raising.

If you do not, then I think people will see this as "just another utopian fantasy" - which is where I am right now in looking at your idea.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


IMO we should be trying to round up and incarcerate those who have turned this world into what it is today. THEN start thinking about forming a new world. As long as those criminals exist, they will ruin whatever we come up with.

And then again, as long as we freedom loving and free willed people exist, we'll ruin THEIR plans! HA!

How will you identify the criminals - what sort of judicial process do you envision - Or do you just prefer to "gather a mob, and get on with it" ?

jmaf6556
18th May 2014, 03:03
People may or may not agree with me, if they didn't, corrections would be made until the truest, most effective model is reached.

Perhaps it should be said that if we truly believe the principles you mention are the truths of life, that which creates true power, then we can be confident that those at the top would generally be those who live by such principles, and if others want to take part it'd be in their best interest to stick with them and respect the principles themselves.

I don't think discipline would be needed, I think the natural attraction to the benefits enjoyed by those who are engaging in unified action, and natural love and desire to contribute to the harmonious society such a fair and equitable system would create, would supply the needed motivation.

People don't have to engage in unified action at all, they don't even have to join the Union in the first place, the only incentive and motivating factor is the benefits of unified action, as this is what's needed to accomplish great things that benefit everyone. This is just like nobody having to create friendships, but the mutual benefits of doing so causing it to happen naturally nonetheless. Remember, individuals in the Union are generally whole and self-sufficient.

If there are trouble makers, again the truth is that people naturally want to help those who help them, so give them more love and generosity. If you really have to, you can always choose not to work with them until their behavior becomes acceptable. If you really really have to, you can totally ignore and exclude them. But hopefully we're civilized enough by now that such extreme measures wouldn't be needed.

Another way of saying it yet again is, I believe disharmonious environments and systems such as ours cause disharmonious, unhappy people who become criminals, and harmonious environments and systems such as the one I propose create harmonious, happy people who don't become criminals.

I believe this is the natural, peaceful way of the universe.

enfoldedblue
19th May 2014, 08:56
Hi jmaf6556,

I only recently found this thread and checked out your website. I would like to say I respect the work you have done and believe that it is going in a good direction and you are coming from a good space. In terms of detail I agree with most of what you describe...however, even I, also being an idealist, can see a fundamental flaw with your proposal.

The problem that I see is that in order for it to work...there would have to be no egos in the picture. You say
To most improve the life of the Union and its members, members ideally act in unison constantly and I actually agree that in a perfect world where everyone was free of ego distortions this could be possible...however we are not there....at all. If it was easy as saying "sign up...and make sure to deposit your ego in our handy ego storage facility" then maybe it would be possible....BUT unfortunately there are no ego storage facilities and we all have to do the hard work and heal our ego related wounds.

This brings me to my last point which was touched on by We-are-one at the end of her post. I feel that you are creating an external structure for something that in order to really work must naturally organically evolve from the inside out. As good as the ideals you are trying to promote sound, people need to follow their own paths....and find their own way. I think the more people connect with their soul the more they will reject an external framework...no matter how ideal the content promoted by the framework is. Eg there is something scary to me about someone telling me what the perfect diet is (even though through my own trial and error I have come to similar conclusions as you and follow a similar diet). I am wary of anything that promotes a one size fits all approach and does not recognize and even celebrate the way humans are unique and different.

However, while I have voiced my criticisms I am happy to see that you have been moved to pour your energy into such a noble cause. I see more and more people following their own paths and finding their inner fire...their piece of the puzzle to contribute to changing the collective. It is these fires, these pieces of the puzzle, that I see more and people discovering within and having the courage to share, that give me hope that humanity is in process of shifting paradigms.

I know it is difficult to put our work out and have it picked apart and criticized. I personally always feel that though my ego doesn't like criticism, when I move past it I usually find value in what people say...and ultimately the object of the criticism is improved by the input.

Good Luck

jmaf6556
19th May 2014, 18:27
Enfoldedblue, thanks for the thoughtful message.

I agree that what I've described is idealistic, and although I'll do what I can to make it happen, I'm not necessarily expecting it to. A large part of the reason I created the write up was simply to lay out what I think the ideal is, for our clarity and understanding. I have my own ideas about what's causing problems in the world, preventing unity, and holding back the liberation movement, ideas which don't seem to be widely known, so I wanted to get them out there. And like I said to Nasu, may as well shoot for the ideal, especially in the long run. And yes, I agree egos, desire to have one person or group at the top, instead of a publicly, communally-owned equality-based system, is presently one of the major barriers to progress, this perhaps most of all I wanted to point out, so that although it may not be easy, we'll recognize the need to work on this and do so.

I agree we need the work to happen naturally inside ourselves, but I also think external guides are helpful. I think to be clear about our common principles and agreements, we do need charters, mission statements and so on, for example the US Constitution and Declaration of Independence, so I've thrown one of my own out there. The Global Greens Charter is another good one to check out. I think as people who've experienced being in positions of greater responsibility know, uniting people is challenging, and without these underlying frameworks we have no organization, structure, or coordinating influence, like a floppy pancake, so we can thank the organizations that have already been set up for accomplishing what they have. We may complain that some of our organizations restrict us, but I think this is a quality of those organizations' practices, not organizations in general.

This brings us to the issue of one-size-fits-all vs. uniqueness. I think truth implies universality, including application to all people, that there is such a thing as truth to strive for, and that all things attempting to reach it too will have the quality of universality. This doesn't have to be a bad thing, remember I'm mainly discussing values such as unity, harmony, freedom, equality, and so on, which I think we can agree are good for everyone. Also remember that this idea doesn't involve any kind of coercion and is in fact against it, freedom and self-responsibility are highly prioritized. What I think it does is provide a foundation for creating a harmonious environment that allows and encourages all individuals to flourish while walking their individual paths. Perhaps it should also be said that I think equality, treating people equally in value, isn't the same as sameness, treating people the same in substance, which I think is what you mean by one-size-fits-all and which I'm not advocating. Really all I think the write up is doing is stating the universal laws, which do exist, regarding unity, which is well-known to be very valuable.

enfoldedblue
19th May 2014, 23:39
Enfoldedblue, thanks for the thoughtful message.

I agree that what I've described is idealistic, and although I'll do what I can to make it happen, I'm not necessarily expecting it to. A large part of the reason I created the write up was simply to lay out what I think the ideal is, for our clarity and understanding. I have my own ideas about what's causing problems in the world, preventing unity, and holding back the liberation movement, ideas which don't seem to be widely known, so I wanted to get them out there. And like I said to Nasu, may as well shoot for the ideal, especially in the long run. And yes, I agree egos, desire to have one person or group at the top, instead of a publicly, communally-owned equality-based system, is presently one of the major barriers to progress, this perhaps most of all I wanted to point out, so that although it may not be easy, we'll recognize the need to work on this and do so.

I agree we need the work to happen naturally inside ourselves, but I also think external guides are helpful. I think to be clear about our common principles and agreements, we do need charters, mission statements and so on, for example the US Constitution and Declaration of Independence, so I've thrown one of my own out there. The Global Greens Charter is another good one to check out. I think as people who've experienced being in positions of greater responsibility know, uniting people is challenging, and without these underlying frameworks we have no organization, structure, or coordinating influence, like a floppy pancake, so we can thank the organizations that have already been set up for accomplishing what they have. We may complain that some of our organizations restrict us, but I think this is a quality of those organizations' practices, not organizations in general.

This brings us to the issue of one-size-fits-all vs. uniqueness. I think truth implies universality, including application to all people, that there is such a thing as truth to strive for, and that all things attempting to reach it too will have the quality of universality. This doesn't have to be a bad thing, remember I'm mainly discussing values such as unity, harmony, freedom, equality, and so on, which I think we can agree are good for everyone. Also remember that this idea doesn't involve any kind of coercion and is in fact against it, freedom and self-responsibility are highly prioritized. What I think it does is provide a foundation for creating a harmonious environment that allows and encourages all individuals to flourish while walking their individual paths. Perhaps it should also be said that I think equality, treating people equally in value, isn't the same as sameness, treating people the same in substance, which I think is what you mean by one-size-fits-all and which I'm not advocating. Really all I think the write up is doing is stating the universal laws, which do exist, regarding unity, which is well-known to be very valuable.

HI,

Thanks for your reply. What came to me after reading it was maybe at this stage rather than trying to create the ideal framework and presenting it for people to accept...you could create a space where others could collaborate with your idea...make it dynamic, alive and flexible with the ability to grow and respond to change. So essentially instead of offering your vision as something that others can accept or not, you create a think tank, where people can gather and explore and expound on ideas presented. In order for it to work you would have to be willing to let go of your baby...and allow it to develop, mature and grow.

Also Personally I don't believe that in an ideal world it would still be necessary to have external frameworks...charters etc. I believe that oneness is NOT something we need to agree on. I believe that oneness in truth is what we are. Right now most of us are disconnected from our deepest core and because of that our reality is distorted. However, if humanity could re-connect to our core...the place where we remember and feel our oneness, a natural organic free-flowing order would naturally ensue.

For me this knowing of oneness doesn't mean that everyone would necessarily instantly agree on something...but with all parties naturally guided by a knowing that -what I do to you I do to myself, and what I do to me I do to you...etc values like justice and equality would naturally manifest.

AND one of the keys to making this magic happen is our uniqueness. I will share a passage from the book I have just written:


I imagined a world where everyone tuned into the deep levels within and followed the calling of their hearts; where you were paid the same whether you were a surgeon or a janitor. I had been taught that important professions like doctors, lawyers, presidents etc needed high pay to ensure that the best people were attracted to these important areas. But the underlying perfection that was exposing itself to me made me wonder what would happen if instead of being driven by external factors like prestige and pay we listened to internal cues. I saw how diverse people were and how we all had unique areas that fascinated us. One person might be enthralled by the details of lighting, while another might happily spend years studying herbs. Someone might feel driven to understand the mysteries of physics, while another person might want to focus on their family interaction and be happy to do unskilled work that required little thought. I suspected that because, as I had been shown, we were so diverse, yet connected beneath the surface, our separateness being part of the surface illusion, that a free flowing, organic order could potentially manifest.

I personally think our uniqueness is of paramount importance. Several years ago I worked with a group of children from diverse backgrounds to create a play that celebrated diversity. In the play three kids who pick on other kids who are different, meet a genie and make a wish to go into outer space and meet some aliens. The planet where they go is fully united in group think. They have one food called 'samo samo' , one song, one dance and speak with one voice etc etc. Visiting this planet makes the kids realize how lucky they are coming from a planet that is diverse and people are unique.

While I see from your last paragraph that you are not advocating a state of sameness...I think that your framework would benefit from more emphasis on the balance between oneness and individuality...and the way that these two attributes, rather than being opposed, are actually crucial to success.

Cheers :)

jmaf6556
20th May 2014, 21:02
Hi enfoldedblue,

Thanks for the thoughtful message. I agree it should be open to improvement, that's part of the reason why I discuss it in forums like this, perhaps I should create a whole another space.

I wonder whether we don't need things like charters, I feel like truth, like understanding, is something that's always evolving and takes constant work, so even if there are times when it happens naturally, it's nice to have it out there in writing even if only as a reminder during the difficult times. It's like the tendency towards separation is like the tendency for the universe to increase in entropy, well what it really is is our tendency to forget who we really are and the fact that remembering it takes work, I think some sort of unifying document may help us remember for good, in the same way that meditation and meditation aids help us to remember. The finite phenomenal universe can never reach perfect and infinite unity, this takes perfect and infinite work, and so a unifying document is helpful.

I agree with you about uniqueness. I feel I address this issue in the section "Freedom and Self-Responsibility", perhaps you feel it's not adequate.

Another issue may be that I don't think individuality, as opposed to oneness, is beneficial. This doesn't mean individuals can't disagree and go their separate ways, or contribute to the whole in their own unique ways, it just means that I think there's no theoretical difference between service-to-self and service-to-others, I think the ideal is simply wholehearted and selfless service, love, and generosity for the whole. This can still mean taking care of yourself first, since you know yourself best, and since it's not beneficial to the whole to let it take advantage of you. So I guess I do disagree that oneness and individuality should be balanced, or perhaps a better way of saying it is I think rather individuality is contained within oneness which is the ideal. You said it too, "what I do to you I do to myself", there's no separation between self and other.

Yetti
28th May 2014, 01:47
Hey Ghostrider. You sound like John Lennon on IMAGINE ! Cool. but if this is what you want, I guess you're on the wrong planet! lol.