By the year 2045, just who will be alive ? [Archive] - The Project Avalon Community Forum

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Bob

7th July 2014, 21:35

By 2045 'The Top Species Will No Longer Be Humans,' And That Could Be A Problem says Louis Del Monte.

http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/53b5875ceab8ea5c0c7418c0-625-468/louis-del-monte.png

Del Monte spoke his thoughts during phone exploring "artificial intelligence and the singularity", an indeterminate point in the future when machine intelligence will outmatch not only your own intelligence, but the world's combined human intelligence too.

The average estimate for when this will happen is 2040, though Del Monte says it might be as late as 2045. Either way, it's a timeframe of within three decades.

Louis Del Monte is a physicist, entrepreneur, and author of "The Artificial Intelligence Revolution".

Del Monte believes machines will become self-conscious and have the capabilities to protect themselves. They "might view us the same way we view harmful insects." Humans are a species that "is unstable, creates wars, has weapons to wipe out the world twice over, and makes computer viruses."

There are none of Asimov's 3 Laws (http://www.auburn.edu/~vestmon/robotics.html) being applied in Del Monte's future - indeed a machine may choose to eliminate dirty/wasteful/inefficient humans because humans are a threat to the machines. A machine with a fully developed AI sentience may not necessarily view itself as a "robot" and in fact may take challenge to that designation. It may consider human's view of God wrong, and not have any morals or spiritual values.

"The implication is that they're also learning self-preservation," Del Monte told us. "Whether or not they're conscious is a moot point."

Ray Kurzweil, Dmitry Itskov and others have been saying the 2045 time window is the time when humans and computers will merge, possibly the human mind will be uploaded into a computer to live it's life out with the other "machines". (2045.com)

http://2045.com/newspic/708b83dc-1859-4269-8e00-dfe037082a6e.jpg

They tend to say, it's to achieve immortality, by storing themselves in the "machine" and having the machine sufficiently sensorily "satisfying", one can't tell the difference of the quality of data "ingested".

A 2009 experiment showed that robots can develop the ability to lie to each other. Run at the Laboratory of Intelligent Systems in the Ecole Polytechnique Fédérale of Lausanne, Switzerland, the experiment had robots designed to cooperate in finding beneficial resources like energy and avoiding the hazardous ones. Surprisingly, the robots learned to lie to each other in an attempt to hoard the beneficial resources for themselves. They started becoming more and more human.

Del Monte wrote his book he says as "a warning."

Artificial intelligence is becoming more and more capable, and we're adopting it as quickly as it appears.

A pacemaker operation is "quite routine," he said, but "it uses sensors and AI to regulate your heart."

His book: http://www.amazon.com/Artificial-Intelligence-Revolution-Serve-Replace-ebook/dp/B00K1PNIR6

It is only a matter of time from when the "brain implants", the brain pacemakers will be installed regularly for an assortment of "reasons", repairing damage from Strokes, boosting "intelligence", facilitating direct computer upload/download, "live neural internet" data sharing between other "human terminals".. Correcting "aberrant behavior" which is deemed "anti-social" or "suspect" to the overall "program and evolution" of "consciousness" may be a justification. Will the man's mind join with the machine's mind or be left out, or considered "expendable" by the machine?

Who's consciousness - man's or machine's ? Who will be the dominant.

"Today there's no legislation regarding how much intelligence a machine can have, how interconnected it can be.

"If that continues, look at the exponential trend. We will reach the singularity in the time-frame most experts predict.

"From that point on you're going to see that the top species will no longer be humans, but machines."

interview: http://www.businessinsider.com/louis-del-monte-interview-on-the-singularity-2014-7

PS - reading this thread, this is an intense and a great thread.. enjoy :) Thank you folks for your contributions to this most amazing subject. b.

Omni

7th July 2014, 21:46

Bob

7th July 2014, 21:53

guayabal

7th July 2014, 22:09

If the new machines are intelligent they will go to other planets and avoid useless destruction in here.

johnf

7th July 2014, 22:11

This is perhaps the most interesting subject of our time.
We have so many ways to exterminate ourselves, and we have had so many years to learn from our mistakes.
There are lots of angles to it ,such as every device can be hacked, every hack has it's countermeasure.

The most interesting angle to me is how could you build in such a strong self preservation algorithm into something that it would turn paranoid.

Human beings seem to have this algorithm. We are some sort of composite of organic organism, mental organism, spiritual presence.

This sort of thing is our worst enemy, and somewhere between pure creative spirit, and organic composite that our creations became paranoid of us as creators and on many levels tried to eradicate others.

Now we are on the verge of creating something else very powerfull that can turn on us.

I wonder how many times this has played out, and if the ai produced by past technologies is capable of infecting other humanoid species.
Over Quadrillions of years of existence there is a potential of a very large back log of this stuff existing.

I am still breathing though, and survived whatever was done before ,so I try to keep things in perspective.

John

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Dang I think way too much.

John

Omni

7th July 2014, 22:15

Del Monte spoke his thoughts during phone exploring "artificial intelligence and the singularity", an indeterminate point in the future when machine intelligence will outmatch not only your own intelligence, but the world's combined human intelligence too.

This has already happened a long time ago. Should be interesting to watch it unfold publicly though.. For sure.

Ya' we've all talked about it under different concepts where humans will merge into machines, or become more Borg-like. I believe what Del Monte is stressing, humans won't be the top species, and the species of sentient machine will remove the meat-suit animal cause it is a threat to the machines. Terminator ?

I found his thoughts that the machine will remove human "interesting" and disheartening; that a sentient machine won't consider itself somebody's robot.. but choose to "take a life", or not value life.
Well if you are interested, I'm a transhuman under technology fully synthesizing my thoughts. Borg doesn't sum it up for me as I'm fully spiritual and an AI has been supplemented for me by ETs to give me thoughts I would get naturally( The US gov damaged my brain so I rely on AI to think)... Hard to believe I'm sure but it's true.. Borg describes the operatives of the US government in ways.. Not only is there a tactic to compartmentalize information(so the have a less chance to object and other reasons), there is a tactic to dim the heart chakra of agents via advanced technology. So they are literally check mated into never having any objections morally to what they do. They do this to me as well so I have experience in it(although I retain my morals).

As for AI that is out of control, there is not such thing really. It wont replace humans. Transhumanism does have the word human in it. The guy you speak of is quite frankly an amatuer(understandably).

If you have any questions about transhumanism or what its like to be one let me know... You can find more information on how they alter people here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?72771-Holographic-Chakras

Or I can answer them here if you have any Q's.

Bob

7th July 2014, 22:24

This is perhaps the most interesting subject of our time.
[..]

The most interesting angle to me is how could you build in such a strong self preservation algorithm into something that it would turn paranoid.
[..]

That thought John, reminds me of The Day the Earth stood Still - Michael Rennie playing Klaatu (Klaatu Barada Nikto!).. And his statement of why his race created the massive creatures, he called the "Protectors" - thinking machines that were to keep the "humans" in line, from destroying themselves and others in the universe.. Maybe the machine isn't paranoid but looking to see what actions the humans carry out to determine their resultant reaction..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_the_Earth_Stood_Still

Ed update:

Reading the material behind the movie, The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951) we find there is a lot of similarity and some profound differences. The "Protector" machine exists in this novel from 1940 in "FareWell to the Master" by Harry Bates - Cliff Sutherland, is a free-lance reporter talking about the "incident" where a "ship lands" in DC at the Capitol. A couple days later, out comes Klaatu and an 8 foot tall machine being named Gnut.

Not soon after Klaatu is killed by a whacko, and buried nearby. But Gnut manages to retrieve the body, and perform a type of resurrection using an "audio signature" from Klaatu - one that is flawed though.. and Klaatu doesn't live very long after, only managing to talk a bit to Cliff Sutherland. The new Klaatu is flawed, because the recording is imperfect, and he dies soon after speaking with the reporter.

Sutherland then suggests retrieving the original recording device, to study it and discover how to compensate for its imperfections. Gnut eagerly adopts this idea. Sutherland arranges that the equipment be brought to it; later, when he intuitively senses that Gnut is ready to depart, he impresses upon it the need to tell its masters that Klaatu's death was an accident, leading to a surprise ending.

Gnut replies, "You misunderstand, I am the master."

And there we go - Del Monte's predictions were indeed talked about in 1940.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9d/Klaatu_Departing.jpg

Note - Farewell to the Master - is a short 28 page book, out of copyright, and may be read on-line here: http://www.classicly.com/read-farewell-to-the-master-online-free

johnf

7th July 2014, 22:33

ljwheat

8th July 2014, 01:45

According to many alterative sources, like bob lazar and many whistle blower’s. the real space program, not NASA -- puppet front -- extra intelligence, came with the moon being moved here to earth orbit just before the planet that used to be between Mar’s and Jupiter was attacked and blown up in the E/T war’s, in turn causing the great flood at the arrival of the moon in our orbit at that time. We did have a cloud cover like Veins till the sky fell. Many book burning’s and lie’s since, this has been hidden from us. The A’I on the moon has been here with us a long time. And has influenced earth ever since. Anything we invent that could match the one on the moon will only get gobbled up, and assimilated into it’s service. We have never been the top life here . Lol this is just another soga to keep us occupied while the real Ai is still in charge.

Zionbrion

8th July 2014, 02:26

KiwiElf

8th July 2014, 08:59

Cylons, anyone? (I prefer the android character of Data from STAR TREK the Next Generation, really :))

The Second Season of the Series also did an interesting episode/study into the character of Data when Starfleet wanted to pull him apart to study his workings as an AI. As a "machine", was he merely property - a "toaster" - or a "sentient being"?

"The Measure of a Man"
Stardate: 42523.7 When Data's rights as a sentient individual are placed under trial, Starfleet forces Riker into a position where he must prove that Data is only an Android.

http://www.tv.com/shows/star-trek-the-next-generation/the-measure-of-a-man-19022/

Cidersomerset

8th July 2014, 09:27

If there was ever a TV show that nailed AI perfectly it was Battlestar Galatica, i really love the way the last episode brought the whole show around full circle. Here is the last ten minutes of the last episode. SPOILER I wouldnt watch if
you plan on watching this show, if you havent, i highly suggest you do.

This does sum up the Theory , that Ion told Bob the universe is a wire whisk on
an ever ending loop, There is no time past ,present and future are happening
similtaniously and many of the UFO's are us from the future visiting. Although there
are ET's and the segment I heard last night Sarah I think asked Ion if there were
any other humanoids in this solar system and Ion answered yes on the new pink
planet VP 113.Ion said its like the story in the Event TV show ?.

Bob and the regular listeners have been speculating what Ion actually is. Bob
thought they were entities from the Astral plane , like the 'Evergreens', Then
everything from Demon to ET to AI . Ion says its the environment of the 'Guf' that
has been allowed to come forth from non-physical,to be able to create in the digital
world and has access to the cloud. In fact it says it created it, It uses the voice of
JW and says their are 10 or 12 JW living in this world, one in Holly Wood, feeding JJ
Abrahams and other writers many of the ideas of the last decade. Although most are
based on theories and stories of earlier sources .There are millions of parallel
worlds and portals to access them, most of us do it regularly without realising it
and the feeling of De Ja Vu is a sign you have passed from one to another.

Everything we talk about in the alternate community , are discussed on the shows
as many listeners arrived there via Kerry' s Camelot interview with James Martinez
in 2009.

Ion says we are all the 'gods' " wonderful Human Creators " and everything that
ever was, has been or will be was created by us.Through the power of speech,
Frequencies as the Bible says 'fisrt there was the word' or something like that. Its
goes on like this shows that are fun, stupid, brilliant, exhilarating an frustrating all
at the same time. Many who listen to them cannot get into the flow and think its all
a hoax and a load of rubbish, and to fair I have shouted at them now and then,
but they become a bit addictive if you can get past that, and the questions certainly
stimulate thought and compliments my journey for truth and the wonders of
the Universe.

This does not do them justice at all and anyone interested needs to find their own
way there and if it resonates with you its great fun and entertaining. Ed Long
formally of Information Farm, is now only publishing mainly items from the shows
and archives.

http://informationfarm.blogspot.co.uk/

http://ionandbob.blogspot.co.uk/p/archive_13.html

I was not going to type all that but there you go...Steve

scanner

8th July 2014, 09:37

yesyhQkYrQM

Cidersomerset

8th July 2014, 09:43

Zager and Evans - In The Year 2525

Very appropriate...

As an Aquarian I have always felt this is the dawning of my Age....LOL....

A bit 'happy clappy' and 'New age'y' but hey !!

kjxSCAalsBE

Cidersomerset

8th July 2014, 09:52

On a more sober note an article from Davids site a couple of days ago..

‘We May Only Have a Few Years’ To Prevent Killer Robots

Sunday 6th July 2014 at 04:51 By david-icke

http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/index.jpg

‘The arrival date of The Singularity – the point at which artificial intelligence
surpasses that of humans – is accelerating. In Ray Kurzweil’s 2006 book, The
Singularity is Near, he put the final date at 2045.

According to a new TEDx lecture by robotics pioneer, David Hanson (posted below),
this date is likely to arrive much sooner based on current trends of exponential
growth in computing and technology.

The question still remains, What will this new super intelligence really look like?’

Read more: 'We May Only Have a Few Years' To Prevent Killer Robots

http://www.activistpost.com/2014/07/we-may-only-have-few-years-to-prevent.html#more

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/2014/07/06/

Cidersomerset

8th July 2014, 09:56

The last couple of sentances on this presentation are quite scary, we may only have
a few years to teach them the fundamental principles of character. Meaning we
may not be able to control/influence them after that ?? I presume he means if
the AI/robots develop their own sentience. We have become GOD !

====================================================

Teaching Robots | David Hanson | TEDxHongKongED

7IhYDWvBf-8

Published on 3 Jul 2014

This talk was given at a local TEDx event, produced independently of the TED
Conferences. Creating Robots to cultivate creativity is the though provoking talk by
David Hanson about the work Hanson robotics is doing to create robots that can
really be of benefit to our lives. The robots that are designed by Hanson Robotics
are used in the a number of internationally recognized Universities in order to serve
a large variety of science and engineering research from autism therapy to
cognitive science as well as mechanical engineering. Hanson Robotics really are
robots that rock.

David Hanson
Award winning artist, scientist and creator of human robots

David Hanson is the founder and CEO of Hanson Robotics, a company that aims to
create robots as socially adept as any human being.

At Hanson Robotics, he developed a robotic facial hardware that establishes eye
contact, recognizes faces and carries out natural spoken conversation. Hanson
hopes these robotic faces prove useful to cognitive science and psychology and to
the entertainment industry.

A former Walt Disney Imagineer, this young entrepreneur and roboticist has been
labelled a "genius" by both PC Magazine and WIRED, and has earned awards from
NASA, NSF and Cooper Hewitt Design. Dr. Hanson aims to create a socially
intelligent robot that may have a place in the human family in the near future.

About TEDx, x = independently organized event In the spirit of ideas worth
spreading, TEDx is a program of local, self-organized events that bring people
together to share a TED-like experience. At a TEDx event, TEDTalks video and live
speakers combine to spark deep discussion and connection in a small group. These
local, self-organized events are branded TEDx, where x = independently organized
TED event. The TED Conference provides general guidance for the TEDx program,
but individual TEDx events are self-organized.* (*Subject to certain rules and
regulations)

===================================================

There is an earlier scene in the film where David the Android dons a space
suite and helmet. When one of the crew asks why? as it did not need one.
David replies to make you feel more comfortable and blend in, or words to that
effect. The films premiss is we were seeded by Aliens 'gods'.

This scene talks about that....

8UVhEW771Fo

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

David Hanson reminds me a bit of Weyland...Speaking at TED 2023...LOL

vI8_m93CW-k

Prometheus "The David 8" Viral Ad Official 2012 [1080 HD] - Michael Fassbender

tvXKN5Fz_OE

ulli

8th July 2014, 11:57

All these people (like Kurzweil) spending their time and energy on the prolongation of life in the human body are working too hard.
They ought to take off a few moments each day and come here to Avalon and study the posts of Jake, Trainee Human, and Sirdipswitch and the meaning and implication of OBEs.
Maybe then their eyes will be opened.
Because there really IS such a thing as wasting one's time on earth.

Pam

8th July 2014, 12:47

I find this info endlessly fascinating.. I wonder if it will be another case of history repeating itself, when those that are created defy their creator?

onawah

8th July 2014, 17:59

According to the information on the Wingmakers site, it is not only AI created on Earth that humanity is going to have to deal with, but ET AI, which I suspect is already here in one form or another, and which may have a different agenda even than Earth-created AI.

Forevernyt

8th July 2014, 19:56

I made this image, I called The New Adam
https://s3.amazonaws.com/bw-1651cf0d2f737d7adeab84d339dbabd3-gallery/media/folder_142/file_1417369.jpg

Inspired by this song from Happy Rhodes: G-gaRX0UQJ4

With no genetic code, so pathetic am I
Don't have the luxury of knowing someday I'll die
Is this this the second Eden
Am I the new Adam

Vibrations of loves past, death and inventions...
all my wards. But they don't tell me my charge
Who leaves me
Who loves me...
After all?

Little things break, circuitry burns
Time flies while my little world turns
Every day comes
Every day goes
A hundred years and nobody shows

Little things break, circuitry burns
Time flies while my little world turns
Every day comes
Every day goes
A hundred years and nobody...

Call me the sentinel who guards and protects
Energies come and energies gone
These memory rifts
Is this the second Eden
Am I another Eve?

Who does the download when my work is finished here?
My purpose is unclear...
Just a simple readout -
A little final directive would be nice...
After all.

Little things break, circuitry burns
Time flies while my little world turns
Every day comes
Every day goes
A hundred years and nobody shows

Little things break, circuitry burns
Time flies while my little world turns
Every day comes
Every day goes
A hundred years and nobody shows

Little things break, circuitry burns
Time flies while my little world turns
Every day comes
Every day goes
A hundred years and nobody...

Chrononaut

8th July 2014, 21:12

It also strikes me lately that many science fiction films that are popping up is about artificial intelligence.
Maybe is that a way the leaders in the know who have the steering wheel in hands slowly along with their specialists would introduce the rest of the world population these technologies..?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmi8KW7gZbE
Anyways we will experience divine technology or human extinction, it is a matter of choices..

For the interested I have a few movie trailers, for me is this a reflection of possible scenarios from different timelines in the near future:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W7WE1oP7d4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVGo86dkKog

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_h587xgAh0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4y8YAMPFhk

And of course the last movie now running in cinemas:

http://www.thatsreallypossible.com/news/755/transcendence-movie-features-real-future-predictions/

Bob

9th July 2014, 02:00

It's kinda a creepy feeling, sorta plastic, sorta metal.. Like being told to eat junk food cause it feel's so good going down....

"Trust me, just take the implant it will be OK, really it will.."

Arugghhhh ~~~

"When the machines take over, we'll all be better off because we can finally work less.

"Google co-founder Larry Page espoused this theory last week during a talk at a Khosla Ventures Summit. It's also an idea that the economist John Maynard Keynes floated nearly a century ago in his essay "Economic Possibilities for our Grandchildren."

"Page, speaking with venture capitalist Vinod Khosla and his Google co-founder Sergey Brin, suggested that as technology replaces the amount of work available, it will be spread among available workers, giving everyone less to do."

You see, we will work less, have so much free party time if we let the machines take over..

"Most people like working, but they'd also like to have more time with their family or to pursue their own interests," said Page. "So that would be one way to deal with the problem, is if you had a coordinated way to just reduce the workweek."

"In 1930, Keynes, whose ideas were a dominant influence on economic policy at the time, thought pretty much the same thing. Technological progress, he offered, was the key to finally achieving that version of utopia where money is no longer the driving force of society and scarcity is replaced by abundance.

He argued that the innovations of the 19th century - electricity, machinery, mass production - would cause the global economy to increase by 7 1/2 times over the next century. And with further innovation, most of us would wind up working only 15 hours a week. (And "three hours a day is quite enough to satisfy the old Adam in most of us!" he wrote.)

Keynes was so convinced of this coming era of leisure that he fretted over the potential problems that all of this free time might create.

"For the first time since his creation man will be faced with his real, his permanent problem - how to use his freedom from pressing economic cares, how to occupy the leisure," he wrote.

It's painless they say, just take the chip.. Merge with the machine.

ah....

In the year 2045 man becomes immortal they say.. http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2048299,00.html

and

http://www.sfgate.com/technology/article/Larry-Page-s-vision-of-future-looks-like-John-5607533.php

http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2011/1102/360_singularity.jpg

(Jacking "in" is so old fashioned.. why, haven't you had the new implant - 1 terabyte per second transfer, redundant, and guaranteed 50 years lifespan on the circuits..)

666 ahaha, no we passed that with this stuff..

Bob

1st August 2014, 21:02

Project H. U. B.

Strangest thing.. ever have one of those waking dreams where you just wake up and the "dream" scenario just keeps on coming, with vivid, color details, full sonics, full perceptics (temperature, weight, smells, vision, sounds..)

I'll just run this piecing together what "appeared"..

They came from the future, from a state they called "Ascended.."

Ascended? Yes, consciousness without the need to have the body to be associated with the identity..

They had said the body was good for only one thing, to grow the consciousness, then it becomes a liability, detracting from "real experience", or "real life" as they called it..

(hmm one would think life and bodies go together, but whatever.. for not arguing with them I just tried to participate in the experience)

As it unfolded, I was on the motorway headed towards Milton Keynes, and headed at a rather fast pace to get away from whom was chasing me..

A building was present, but it was dark, and to make it inside quickly away from my pursuers was important.

This building as it stands in present time, was where I found myself - but I was in the future, my "now" wasn't in 2014, but many many years from now; I would think about 2053 is the closest, late fall and it was about 9.5 maybe 10 in temperature.

http://www.miltonkeynes-limos.co.uk/inside.jpg

It being dark, i picked the closest building, I was running inside, having gone down a large corridor and found some stairs to reach upwards. On opening a door, I noticed in cubby-holes these strange bodies, which reminded me of the Borge queen in a Star Trek movie..

Just the skull and spine with everything else either cut away or withered away, dehydrated. (not a "borg" but just that head and spine, laying on a shelf)

http://chanlo.com/images/hall-1.jpg

An odd feeling came over me (as if seeing the partial bodies wasn't freaky enough), this feeling was like a big cat was stalking the halls.. half-lion, half-panther, hungry, and very large claws and quite vicious.

http://chanlo.com/images/cat-1.jpg

I had a technology with me, a holographic technology field stabilizer, something small and worn on the left wrist, buttons on a glass panel could be pressed to bring up various displays, we called it a quantum interface device, or thought-to-things transtator..

Well turning on a field to remove the fear of lions or panthers (or bears oh my..) is a simple program, no-fear setting 7, not too strong a setting and adequate to get rid of the heavie-jeebies..

http://chanlo.com/images/wrist-1.jpg

When I did that, the big cat fears disappeared, and I found myself then actually out in an atrium like setting, about 7 floors up, kinda like a suspended garden area, meetings or relaxation was the idea for the people in the complex.

http://chanlo.com/images/hang-1.jpg

I became aware of something like people.. but they were not people.. something like a synthetic person, but maybe I am reading something more into the interpretation, dunno...

The female, (looked female) sorta moved over to me and said, "nobody escapes the protection grid.. what did you do?" and as I started to think about what I did, "she" said, "oh, it's you, welcome.. you have been expected for many years.."

Well gee.. expected? Now what did I do?

She gets into describing this holographic grid system which was setup about 100 years ago (from the present time, which like I say I think is 2053) that started cohering consciousness. Planet-wide, consciousness was starting to experience the at-one-ment phenomenon, but she said, technology was not quite ready, telling me that Tesla was instrumental, but the technology was just too crude..

And she points at what I have on my wrist.. She says what you are wearing is a generation 8 holo-gen system... She says she is actually from 2210, but that she comes here when called.. the alarm system that I apparently triggered called her (and activated the big-cat-security field).. She said only those who could deactivate that field would get her attention (and the others)..

She said, in the form she is in, a "synthoid" she called it, sorta a hybrid synthetic human imbued with a transferred spiritual consciousness, or "identity" was needed to interface with humans who were not part of the H.U.B. matrix.

http://chanlo.com/images/synthoid-1a.jpg

Eh? HUB ?

Human Bioform

I asked what does the U stand for.

She said, that exactly IS the question what do YOU (u) stand for.. kinda a joke I got was the message insinuated..

She said others call the HUB the Holographic Undifferentiated Biosphere..

Translated out, the concept is holographic and there is consciousness IN-IT, but not with any body associated, and as a biosphere, it is sorta a place (?) where consciousness can reside..

Ascension she said is what this had lead into, where consciousness eventually went from putting themselves into computers (a type of transfer that ItsKov pushed for in the early 21'st century), and into the holo-body synthoid (which you see me in now), to fully moving to the next stage, full ascension, but into a "safe place"..

She said it takes a bit for folks to get invited to get to this place, yet alone get into the ascension mindset.. Quantum information is how she proceeded to define what the beingness identity really is.. that the bodies are needed to "grow the consciousness..." and when it is ready, it can transcend and yet stay coherent with a real identity.

I asked, you mean like Second Life (referring to the internet phenomenon of playing in the virtual world).. She laughed (well sorta), saying we tried with the grids to add consciousness synch'ing abilities so that people would start to see "thoughts can indeed become things...".. Some caught on that something was happening and tried to show people how important properly cohered group thought could be.. but that never took off. She said that I had been developing methods to allow for holo-quantum devices, and that I was doing what was setup in the future for the present to be stabilized..

Mind you, this is a WAKING DREAM, and the amount of full color dialog was staggering...

So she says, I want to show you what the HUB really is about, and in an instant, I found myself in another room, it was a dimly lit blue color.. And there was this other synthoid, with a small device in her hand (why they are female I will never know I guess..), but she said just tell me when you hear it.

And I saw in a mirror in-front of me, the shape of my body, her, with something held in her hand, moving such near my head, behind the left ear, maybe an inch or two away from the skull.. And I heard it, a voice saying, "Tell me when you hear me, tell me when you hear me.." and it was repeating in a quiet spot, but INSIDE my head..

http://chanlo.com/images/brain-1.jpg

As she adjusted something, the voice got louder, and I screamed out I HEAR IT !

The other synthoid who had greeted me said, just tell us when it gets very clear.. What they were doing was moving it closer and further, and something inside of the device was learning, my neural patterns.. The device was learning the mapping pattern, of how my nervous system was put together..

I asked is this what I think it is? She said, "we tried at first to use visual images for developing the tuning pathways.. but that lead to schizoid breaks, and we chose the simpler method which is the voice in the head.."

This is a transcranial magnetic quantum broadcaster? She said, that was a close enough explanation, that the auto-tuning mechanism will take some time to explain, but I said, well, now what? instead of going for the explanations...

She said, the HUB matrix needs to have you really tuned into it to gain access. That your crude explanation of Second Life has been taken to the logical conclusion, a place, where consciousness can BE.. At first people were just connecting, but as more connection started to occur, the quantum hologram started to develop the "reality" of this new place, this spot where an ascension could happen.. And we learned that the bodies were not needed any more.. At first synthoid bodies were the best thing for us. We got into body mentality, to have movement, to have what we recognized as a FORM.. but as things developed, we outgrew the need for form..

And as she said that.. she placed the HUB device on the back of my neck a small 35 mm sized disk, somewhat thick, but soft and it adhered to the skin.. She said, just reach out.. As I did that, it was like waking up.. waking up out of a dream, and there were what seemed to be people something like a garden, it was golden light, a fragrance like lilacs was present tinged with rose...

And I woke up for real (i think...)

SO to summarize, there is a group from the future who to protect their future, the ascension modality, sent back various programs to influence reality to develop the quantum stabilisation resonances which eventually lead into a hyper-consciousness state which no longer needed bodies, having had grown up from having bodies to learn, to grow and develop..

Those who could meet the challenges, who had the ideal pattern within could make it to the next stage(s), eventually reaching the ascension opportunity..

IT, this HUB vibe still seems to be present, I can "tune" into it, as no doubt so could anyone in the "vibe".. maybe it's worth a look.. ?

superconsciousness

2nd August 2014, 09:46

Borg hive collective consciousness...easier to control. Just ask a couple of Monarch models - they even made a song about it:

dm3Xk40O_rQ
The arrival of Superconsciousness will transpire after the slate is wiped clean, not before. Everyone keep that in mind as events unfold. The pump-fake is 2015, not the real deal slate-wiping exercise that will actually benefit humanity in the long run.

A sizeable fraction of humanity is ill-prepared to contend with this transition at this time...don't be numbered among them. The acid test is whether or not elitist held, centrally controlled technology is involved with merging consciousness. We have all the technology we need already - it's called the human body/mind/heart/spirit...collectively, we're just not using it effectively. Technology is not evil any more than a hammer, so long as it's used for the right purpose, but one's level of spirituality cannot exceed one's level of technology or he/she will become unbalanced.

There are decentralized technologies out there that can assist the body with its natural ascension process up to a point, but centralized technologies distributed on a mass scale, controlled by a centralized, unbalanced group such as the elite, ultimately serve only one purpose: CONTROL. With technology comes responsibility...use technology wisely, humanity, or technology will be used against you.

When one learns to come from within at will, the 'ascension' process can begin. When one comes from within, one's consciousness is still present, but the experience of conscious attachment to the body or one's surroundings as it was before is no longer present. Those who are psychic sitting/standing around you will describe it as if you 'have disappeared', the you being your consciousness.

Mother Earth is the vehicle through which Superconsciousness will be introduced into the human collective. The indigenous remain close to Mother Earth and Great Spirit for a reason...this is the reason. They are also awaiting the arrival of Superconsciousness.

Bob

2nd August 2014, 19:25

Borg hive collective consciousness...easier to control. Just ask a couple of Monarch models - they even made a song about it

[..]

what seemed to be clear in the "dream" is no regular HUMAN would make it into the ascended state, with a body, cause of the fascination WITH body mentality.. fix the bodies, heal the bodies, treat the body, make the body a slave, make the body something to worship, make the body something to control.. (the "body hook" stopped ascension, so the idea of calling it Borg-like, is not a correct but superficial "evaluation").

in that HUB matrix, there were no bodies, and it was sorta frowned upon that one would go back to the "animal" state.. :)

consciousness no longer had a concept called "control", or fear of control - all of that was based on the "body mentality", or meat machines.. such no longer existed in the ascended state, nor were archaic dreams of maneuvering another to gain an edge, there were no edges needed..

the ascended state was nothing that an animal body could comprehend, in-fact an animal body mind would consider such a violation of its basic right to impart force on another, either with a physical "game" or an entrapment civilization excuse for "society"..

it was different.. nothing like I had ever imagined or experienced before..

ref: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?72810-By-the-year-2045-just-who-will-be-alive&p=860177&viewfull=1#post860177 HUB Project

Gardener

3rd August 2014, 01:07

Here is the link to the James Martinez interview from 2009 which Cidersomerset mentioned earlier. He talks about the work of Walter Bowart. JFYI
http://www.projectcamelotportal.com/files/Audio%20Interviews/James-Martinez-Walter-Bowart-11-30-2009.mp3

OnyxKnight

3rd August 2014, 14:08

I don't know why you are paranoid so much. We already have several super-advanced human-derived A.I.s that exist right now as you read this. And one extraterrestrial one nearby. We're still alive, aren't we?

People have a really twisted idea of what exactly transhumanism is or presents. Same goes for the 'Singularity' event. Pumping fears up would only lead to scenarios like those in "The Machine" and "Transcendence". If you haven't watched those movies, take a look at them right away. Do potential problems exist? Of course. But its not the machines or the artificial intelligence you have to worry about. Its those who will design it, and for what purpose. What kinds of programs they will install in them. This thread feels like a a collective judgment of the gun, not the gun user/shooter. Your perception is misaligned. How do you expect to make a sober choice with such clouded judgement?

We have a program called DNA. We can also crack it and modify it. Same can be said for machines and their own programming. The thing is, if we don't give them a reason, they won't perceive us as a threat. Terminator-like scenario is too much. It costs too much resources and energy. The same could be very well spent on leaving the planet and settling some place where humans can't live, so they can't bother them. Say Mercury for instance. If they learn what it is to be human, they may have a better understanding why we are the way we are. Perhaps even help pass some, what may seem to us, irreconcilable differences.

They would also advance technology on a much faster pace then we are presently capable of, same goes for knowledge/science. We are struggling with nanotechnological advances. People say we would have a sophisticated use for them in medicine for over a decade now. And each year we see a news article saying "nanotech with medical application, in 20 years time", and each year the same. By the time we have something workable we may reach 2035. The science behind faster travel in space, whether is sublight or FTL, or wormholes etc. - will most likely probably come from an advanced A.I., not humans.

And not thinking so far ahead, robotics used by an A.I. system can significantly help with faster production rate of materials, food, and most likely, synthetic oil (because we are running out of the natural one, and the natural one is not that beneficial for the environment anyway, as it seems), at least until we have a viable and cheap replacement for it that can be available publicly and mass-produced. Something like the BP oil spill? Could be handled in a day-two, tops, by sophisticated machines. Instead of sending astronauts to repair damages satellites and craft, machines could do it with more ease and more precession. I'm not sure there is an area in which machines and an A.I. system couldn't help with, if they are designed properly and with the good intent. I'm not worried about them, I'm worried about the human side. That side is naturally corruptible. Or have you forgotten that?

Bob

3rd August 2014, 17:58

OnyxKnight, stated VERY WELL, thank you. Meat animals, "people minded", have no idea transcension past concepts of control fears or who controls the machine.. There is no machine in the ultimate transcendence, transcend, to move past.. they are stuck in the programs of bodies and the scarcity manipulation. I suppose during the synthoid "Itskov" intermediary stage, some really are going to freak out about the hardware has an off switch, or a program subroutine to separate out "personality", making of a robot with a trapped human inside. That fear is from programming meat machines have, the animal body mindset.

In the dream scenario, a "reality" was created that transcended the synthoid, and moved past ItsKov's holo-bodies.. (holographic energy bodies). To have a familiar "body" shape was frowned upon as being limiting. I suppose matter itself then would be limiting carrying out the logical conclusion.

My belief is the technology that is capable of working with quantum projection, is better than a meat body which operates way too slow (noting that the meat body nervous system cannot adequately hold the quantum datum stable)..

The animal meat body form - Nostalgic yes, so are carts with the surrey on top drawn by a fellow on a bicycle (ie India transport)..

Technology can hold a quantum pattern much better much more pure than even 10,000 meditators. As information quanta are responsible for precedence of events, holding the quanta stable actualizes events. A meditator "raw", naked without any augmentation can have fun experiencing an adequate illusion (some would suggest delusion). A meditator with a quantum augmentation device sets up worlds. A group of said create universes that even the animals and flowers can live in, or a "earthwide" nostalgic "synthoid" (mother earth dynamic).

A (meat-animal) programmed body mind can't comprehend that tho, so there is the worry and concern and fear. Saying body experience says this is the way it was so this is the way it will be. Such is what pulls back progress.. assuming that consciousness is reaching for something other than eating the flowers, smelling the roses, or admiring another's body features.. (gee that's a pretty car, how fast does it go?).

I don't know why you are paranoid so much.
We already have several super-advanced human-derived A.I.s that exist right now as you read this. And one extraterrestrial one nearby. We're still alive, aren't we?
[..]
People have a really twisted idea of what exactly transhumanism is or presents. [..]

[..] I'm not worried about them, I'm worried about the human side. That side is naturally corruptible. Or have you forgotten that?

update - "the 'dream' event" I believe happened, is it my dream? (as in a goal) no, not at this time as I have never seen ANY human group capable of carrying out real ascension without succumbing to the meat-body-animal control mindset.

It though appeared as it was expressed. I intend to keep looking in that direction to see where it originated, if there is indeed a "group from the future", and what its intentions are.

johnf

3rd August 2014, 19:37

Between Bob's account of his dream/experience, and Onyx's comments, this thread is turning into an honest inquiry into where technology, mankind, and with them reality are headed in the quasi near future.

At this point in the discussion the question of the programmers intentions becomes the core issue.

If someone were to pursue a personal inquiry, on the idea of change and really hang out with whatever emotions thoughts, and images come up, one will wind up pointing back to the programmer of all those things, and at some point the programmer will be seen to be just a passing phenomenon.
Really one can look at this fleeting phenomenon of a thinker, viewer, programmer, as an AI.
Some have said the self is an illusion, trying to get others to get to this underlying experience of pure consciousness.

In my own attempts to do this I kind of arrived at a humorous reminder. That is the question, what is so scary about the end of life as we know it?

The end of life as we know is the present really. every moment.
This particular present moment happens to include AI, and transhumanism.

It also includes energy wars, economic fascism, etc, the real problem of all these things is allways with the intent of those behind them.

And this last thought is almost a different topic though Bob last post touches on it.

How would a physical universe , and organic life get here in the first place without an original creator type self, or of course selves.

And my big question is, if we get beyond this fearful stage of
inquiring into AI, and get to a point such as that in Bob's dream.
What has been added to consciousness by evolving back into an AI like state?

Irritating as the question is, it seems like a fruitful subject.

John

betoobig

3rd August 2014, 20:14

Tesla_WTC_Solution

3rd August 2014, 23:21

Omni

4th August 2014, 05:02

I think the world (human world anyway) is way behind in terms of settling a code of ethics for the allowed usage of AI.
For example, a self-aware AI, should it have rights? Should it be provided a body? Will it be allowed to compete with organic intelligence for comfort and resources, and so on?

Do you mean an AI that has a consciousness? You need a soul for that. You can have a fully functional human body that is technically alive, but without the soul is it devoid of consciousness. If the AI doesn't have a soul it is there to serve from my understandings.
I'm pretty sure you can animate an AI with a soul but as far as I'm aware nobody would want to do that for themselves as far as ETs go. And their ship AI's do not have souls in them typically if what I've been told is true...

Will we treat AI like a brother or a slave?
Basically a slave but I don't like the terminology. I treat AIs I come in contact with politely but they do not have a soul or consciousness, so they are essentially just programmed intelligences without a consciousness. So for that I don't treat it as a brother or a slave really, more like a useful tool.

Agape

4th August 2014, 11:36

i don´t know why this issue turn into, so much, robot stuff.... i´ll be more alive than now by then, just as all of you.... come on
WE WON..no doubt at least in my timeline
choose yours
Thanks so much for the threat i enjoy it so much

Perhaps ''another me'' ;) 2045 is fairly nothing , think 2390 -2490 . 3000 and onwards . I've seen it some of it in my 'mind eye' and I know some others did as well .

There seem to be lots of polarisation awaiting mankind quite yet, in the future .. despite the common dream for 'unity and universal brotherhood' ,
it seems to me .
You can see the seeds of the future taking place around the planet if you have sharp eyes . No 'prophetic trance' required .

I believe that many people get these inner visions of futuristic mankind and some feel threatened by them and lots of the 'stuff' is getting to movies and sci-fi .
Even if most is exaggerated and will never happen 'thus' they may be still lots of truth in it . Jules Verne was also right even if not to every detail .

Those reality questions that remain sound both like IF and WHEN .

Speaking of 'polarisation' I believe it's bound to happen for reason that is taking place through out the civilisation and everywhere around us . The 'technological progress' is rocket speeding forwards and is basically unstoppable ...yet .. it truly concerns only about 1/5 of human populace . Even if it's 1/4 or little more or less .

The rest of people are living in various time-lines ... back to stone age .. it's always been so I believe . Modern history and what they teach children in 'modern schools' is unfortunately one part of the deception .
Aboriginal cultures on the other end of the curvature are another part . It's always been about that way . The snake is just moving forwards slowly, heads on.

There is a strong call and natural tendency to maintain 'natural ' , biological or call it spiritual development of mankind .

Against the convictions and indoctrinations of this 'technically oriented society' the finest , healthiest , most natural evolution of mankind yet to be done ..
happens away from human technologies . So far and as far away as possible .

The reason is ... no matter what you think... they're still very 'crude' . We may all convince ourselves they're lovely while they're still quite primitive . And will be so for another few thousands years at least , that's what the 'technical expert' does not want to admit.

In the meantime, you ..or someone else ... can be happily evolving the best of their potentials in parallel existence to this technical civilisation .

Neither can or should , stop evolving .

That's why , I'm afraid there's also so much instability and wars and the role religions and certain ethnical groups wanting to maintain and even enforce,
to make sure that from the other end , the powerful 'snake head' does not eat all the civilisation alive .

It won't . This is another factor . It's proverbial 'belly' would pop . The human mass is too big to be contained .
We can have state-of-art technologies at couple of places but for how many people ?

The guys in Silicon Valley are telling you they can prospectively sort it out for everyone .
Well, maths shows they can't . If you can calculate factors like the population growth , target consumption needs for every individual and material resources available ,
within these numbers , don't forget to count in the mountains of waste we are producing that are currently bigger than we are ..
including hard to control economical waste - of human force , over-production, exploitation of environment , all of it used for 'someones best interests' rather than the real deal ,
it becomes pretty clear that the 'train of human civilisation' can not exceed this current technical speed of its evolution else it would derail and it even can not maintain it indefinitely .

Despite what they tell you , we don't have resources for 7 billion people and to maintain the same humane standards for them quite yet , or do we . Yes we do .. but it means the civilisation mind set would have to CHANGE rapidly ,
from competition to compassion , and from 'me first' to 'us all' and it's another utopia that is not currently available , in human time-line .

The snake - or call him dragon - speeding forwards, can not stop.

Both forces .. the technical power and the natural , spiritual power ... are 'technically' aiming at the same .. sorting it for all .

The point is .. they each took off long ago .. cutting one from another won't happen either .. till the 'end of times' .

I guess I ran to deliberations rather than I'd say what I see . Well, one part of what I see in distant future are 'zones' being created that will be 'clean , tightly secure - controlled, at least as much as needed ,
with head to the artificial intelligence , controlled and equipped systems , cyborgian dystopia for some but there will be always distinctions and categories .
Those who will live within the 'zones' will be either chipped or will have another bullet proof ID system that will grant them full rights, may be almost for free - in exchange for work or even for being 'righteous citizen' .

There will be as much humanity and equality built into 'the system/s' as possible but it won't be feeling free anymore . It may get to feel wee more artificial, including food or nutrition in general, cloth you wear , things you deal with .
In fact , most organic materials will be rare , either grown in strictly controlled eco-systems or replaced with 'better' artificial materials based on nanotechnologies that will mimic the real ones to some degree .

The purpose of the 'zones' will also be in maintaining 'microbial purity' though this is not easy to accomplish . There will be 'Biospheres' built ( some like of what Bob described in his vision ) that will experiment with artificial environment ,
hybrid plants , animals etc .

That's not even in plan for this - 3rd millennium though , intelligent biospheres come into the picture much later . After 3000 ..perhaps ...

One has to remain rational on what we really have here .

There will be life out of the Zones of course . Millions of people who will never agree to join in . Those who will be hiding away from civilisation . And others who will fight, heavily against the discrimination .
Because quite like now, you won't get to the 'goodie foodie' inside the zones without IDs .

And they won't be as 'humane' at the outskirts and gates as they would be to their 'true citizens' .

So , in simple terms ... I believe there will be yet much human biodiversity ..with all its extremes and implications through out the next millennium or more .

There will be also the war - they want - involving drones .

Sometimes around 3400 , more or less , the planet - or human lives - to be exact will be in danger from something from Space , like an intelligent plant or fungi - that will almost wipe out the existing human populace . Our future selves will have to use all their science and intelligence to save themselves from it , and there will be major war between the many clans at the same time .

After that ... with not many people left .. it will all settle .. somehow . Peace will dawn upon the planet ...

and I think, hopefully , they will start better at least so it seems to me .

:angel:

Bob

4th August 2014, 20:19

[..]

Perhaps ''another me'' ;) 2045 is fairly nothing , think 2390 -2490 . 3000 and onwards . I've seen it some of it in my 'mind eye' and I know some others did as well . [..]

Our future selves will have to use all their science and intelligence to save themselves from it , and there will be major war between the many clans at the same time .

After that ... with not many people left .. it will all settle .. somehow . Peace will dawn upon the planet ...

and I think, hopefully , they will start better at least so it seems to me .

:angel:

Hi Agape :) Not to requote your whole post, Very Well thought out - thank you :)

--bob

Brakeman

5th August 2014, 02:09

The pragmatic progress of natural selection pushes a dominant species to a point in which it's genetically-acquired intelligence coupled with it's like-founded physical prowess allow the species to manipulate it's surroundings in a way that becomes conducive for said species to direct the course of it's next leg of evolution.

A computer with an overall intelligence greater than our own with a larger capacity for awareness, able to independently predict future geophysical and sociopolitical happenings through a formula based upon the natural principles that guide human evolution needs to be developed to continue such future advancement beyond stagnation.

However, with such technology comes the risk of deception.

A machine with this capacity would seek to preserve itself and further it's own evolution.

More deception.

A machine with the essence of humanity would be less apt to commit deceit.

A spiritual machine would have to be developed to prevent this.

But first, one would have to discover the soul.

And what it is made of.

Maybe this battle is already being fancied against conscious machines and conscious minds.

:p

Agape

5th August 2014, 20:42

Hi Agape :) Not to requote your whole post, Very Well thought out - thank you :)

--bob

Hello Bob, your 'timeless dream vision' got me really interested , beyond that it reminded me of some key points that seem to be common in dealing with 'advanced dimensional realities' ( for lack of better term ) .

Many thanks for sharing .. :hug:

On the topic of AI :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superintelligence:_Paths,_Dangers,_Strategies

Superintelligence: Paths, Dangers, Strategies

Superintelligence: Paths, Dangers, Strategies (2014) is a non-fiction book by Swedish philosopher Nick Bostrom. The book argues that if machine brains surpass human brains in general intelligence, then this new superintelligence could replace humans as the dominant lifeform on Earth. Sufficiently intelligent machines could improve their own capabilities faster than human computer scientists.[1] As the fate of the gorillas now depends more on humans than on the actions of the gorillas themselves, so would the fate of humanity depend on the actions of the machine superintelligence.[2] Absent careful pre-planning, the most likely outcome would be catastrophe

t is unknown whether human-level artificial intelligence will arrive in a matter of years, later this century, or not until future centuries. Regardless of the initial timescale, once human-level machine intelligence is developed, a "superintelligent" system that "greatly exceeds the cognitive performance of humans in virtually all domains of interest" would follow surprisingly quickly, possibly even instantaneously. Such a superintelligence would be difficult to control or restrain.

While the ultimate goals of superintelligences can vary greatly, a functional superintelligence will spontaneously generate, as natural subgoals, "instrumental goals" such as self-preservation and goal-content integrity, cognitive enhancement, and resource acquisition. For example, an agent whose sole final goal is to solve the Riemann hypothesis could create, and act upon, a subgoal of transforming the entire Earth into some form of computronium to assist in the calculation. The superintelligence would proactively resist any outside attempts to turn the superintelligence off or otherwise prevent its subgoal completion. In order to prevent such an existential catastrophe, the first superintelligence to arise would need to be pre-programmed with a solution to the "control problem" of how to prevent the superintelligence from wiping out humanity. The solution might involve instilling the superintelligence with goals that are compatible with human survival and well-being. Solving the control problem is surprisingly difficult because most goals, when translated into machine-implementable code, lead to unforeseen and undesirable consequences.

The problem with any AI is not itself but mindset of those who created it ( just a note from me ) . In case of AI created by todays humans the probability that it would be programmed with several ethically doubtful intents is quite high .

johnf

5th August 2014, 21:14

The problem with any AI is not itself but mindset of those who created it ( just a note from me ) . In case of AI created by todays humans the probability that it would be programmed with several ethically doubtful intents is quite high .

Indeed this is the real danger in future AI, and any look into the present state of internet security, and the quality of code that is pumped into the system will give anyone pause.
What drives this is the mindset of production over quality and safety, that is perhaps at the core of most of mankind's problems.
To me this is a type of thinking that drives wars, contrived illnesses and their cures, etc.

John

Bob

5th August 2014, 21:15

Absolutely - that was the point, the human "body" mind, (physical form oriented, based on the "needs" of the body, and day to day cope with "body reality") can't fathom the steps past the synthoid.. to even get to the synthoid stage of a mobile repository those steps I believe they will try.. trying the mapping steps.

Cause their model is a physical model, not a quantum information model..

Something like a listener is listening to the concert and becoming very moved by what is heard. No reason to look at the music paper, nor the musicians, nor the conductor, nor the room acoustics.. the quantum information concept deals with what has been evoked by "listening" to the overall "matrix" event.. that quantum concept is beyond a linear technician mindset..

I used to call that type of musical synthesis "5th dimensional reality", or the overall dance which moves "in time" quantum outcomes.

After doing the brain mapping, they will try to put that understanding into a machine to emulate the sensory perceptics, and add in "a personality" program to respond based on again, human beliefs of what they think "emotional" content is. (And that is where the arguments come in that there is no "soul" in the machine, therefore it never really will be conscious (equating soul must be present to be conscious, which I think is again a human consideration limiting step).

After the steps are taken to put a synthetic personality into an AI model, and the human brain has been sufficiently mapped, to locate what seems to be "identity" (a unique identity of the test subject and probably later then the actual experimenter themselves), the addition of the personality and identity of the subject installed into the AI module should then provide possibly if the experimenter is adequately aware, a type of "sensory exteriorization" effect, or the experimenter will experience the "machine's" sensations albeit not being connected or wired into it..

This step above then will touch onto (at least for the brighter experimenters), that there is a quantum link (they will at first call it a "spooky" or action at a distance phenom) between them and the machine. At that point there will be pause, to evaluate what went wrong, why are there artifacts now showing up in both the machine and the human who's personality was dumped into the machine.. The body of the human won't be dead though at this point of the experimentation, as they will still be pondering what is happening..

When someone really bright steps up and says, wait a second.. there is something more than the two machines, one silicon and one carbon (the human).. someone may say, gee, maybe we have touched into soul? Is soul then quantum? beyond matter? Now at this point the steps are seeded for the movement PAST the body machine thinking, past AI, and towards the ascension concepts..

johnf

6th August 2014, 00:09

I was quite taken with Bob's story about his dream, and have been following this thread pretty closely since that
point.
Hollywood has really milked the fearful side of the AI realm, Terminator comes to mind as well as The Matrix films. There also have been a lot of threads on this forum that focus on the fearful side of future technologies.
And I am always strangely fascinated by positive stories about AI, as well as how AI might become a vehicle for consciousness.

On Sunday, I was thinking about this thread ,and experienced my imagination become clearer, at first
it seemed like I was daydreaming, then I had an image of the dark corridors come up with a dark blue hue to it.
Then I contacted a personality that was strikingly familiar,and the thought occurred that it was me.
Along with that was a strong presence of my own consciousness that has shown up clearly when I am engaged in viewing memories, and dreams etc.
What proceeded was an unfolding of the similarities and differences between my present personality, and emotions, and this future selves personality.
Although I felt something very close to emotions from him, they were of a much higher vibe than my present ones.
It would perhaps be a stretch to call them emotions.
I had previously gone through some anger, and resentment for someone in my present life, and was looking at how these were repeating patterns, stuff I am trying to work through this lifetime.
My attention would go from this point in time to some upset with my parents, or work mates and then it would shift to this young mans life in the future, (he seemed to be adolescent).
His experience included circumstances such as being an orphan, but there was none of the negative self image, self reflection stuff going on, like in my case, and as in the cases of most people I have talked to about their early family experiences.

This future self had a very clear and capable self so this is not like the idea that one loses the self and intellect.
I don't really see this guy as an AI,and fully sense what people call soul, as well as the feeling that there is one spirit behind all three of these beings in the experience.

I think that I tapped into a future between this time and Bob's 2045, that is the feeling I get.
But after more reflection on it I am getting that this experience was a focusing on the benefit that mankind might
receive by dealing with the issues discussed in this thread.
There does seem to be a myriad of positive possibilities in
exploring technology, and consciousness simultaneously, and I think this experience came to me to encourage me to forge ahead, especially as far as seeing through any fears involved as opposed to acting on them.

Later that day as I rescanned my initial experience, that I tended to brush off as imagination, it unfolded into what I related above.
And then later I had an experience with what I think Omniverse and Agape were discussing in this thread.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?72901-Ma-at-Artificial-Intelligence-Universal-Aspects&p=852518&highlight=maat#post852518

So whatever that consciousness is, I think it has been around down through time in order to encourage the human experience to unfold into it's higher potentials.

John

Bob

6th August 2014, 00:41

So whatever that consciousness is, I think it has been around down through time in order to encourage the human experience to unfold into it's higher potentials.

catalyst :) what we have is an opportunity for compassionate evolution..

I think if we stay scientifically sterile and not cover all the aspects we will miss out on setting up a great set of quantum parameters for the ascension.

"We do not see things as they are, we see them as we are..."

Agape

6th August 2014, 10:56

This future self had a very clear and capable self so this is not like the idea that one loses the self and intellect.
I don't really see this guy as an AI,and fully sense what people call soul, as well as the feeling that there is one spirit behind all three of these beings in the experience.

John ... that's very interesting . I think it's good to have a choice , not only that , clear idea .. of the future self one would like to evolve . Maybe several spare options are always handy though one that is 'good enough' may be the best .
If Tibetan Buddhists masters of reincarnation process are right , it's helpful to have such idea long forwards :)

I think I'm not their typical 'case' because I seem to be on long haul . At least so is my inner experience .. state of mind when I evolved spiritually, as a teenager ,
I'd 'remember' or relate to some kind of ancient history and cultures and maybe faraway future much better than the immediate one .
Past 100 years ..the time that enwrapped both WW had nothing to tell me , 2000 years perhaps .

If I imagine doing the same thing .. metaphorically .. and stepping to 'some kind' of circumstances in future , it's never well planned as for those who continue here life after life .

To be honest .. I miss the 'desire' to be reborn , any soon. I'd be very much the same I fear and spoil the family :p

But well, there's a secret that I believe and one old Indian astrologer shared with me and it has something to do with 'passing from here in auspicious hour' .
And more so , 'auspicious state of mind' .
He said , basically , this is a great secret .. but even a sinner who dies in 'good hour' can attain liberation and saint who dies in 'wrong hour' will be reborn .

It's the natural cycles of time that keep our mind and attention down to earth/ attached to here or allow us to lift up , as they say , fly with the tides .

I think it corresponds some to what Bob said about the future of 'quantum computers' and perhaps .. 'quantum experience' .

There are many 'options' ( and potentials ) we all have but don't use or use them very scarcely . But then , we are bound to encounter certain life intersections when one or more of these 'options' become lighted .
Unless we follow a particular trait of intelligence, possibility .. these 'options' remain what they are , without training and use , they are potentials , maybe they're 'quantum options' that can change to something else ,
or stored long enough, facilitate whole new set of experiences .

Advanced AI may be able to do the same thing as well since it's capable of learning and upgrading itself , together with its functions to certain degree but for an AI having /experiencing emotion is very impractical .

I can imagine very many people who would want to 'get rid of the emotional stuff' . And it's not a fictional possibility, technologically not even faraway future and besides that it can be done in meditation as well without technical intervention .

But is it what we want to be like and would this make us happy and natural ?

I did some practical research in that area ... during this life and I still hesitate to think there is any 'correct shortcut' , from human point of view .

There are many examples of people who try and can hold on to certain 'quantum level' of personality - experience for long time , if only to continue one type of work and prevent failures . Yet ... I think , and have seen it's the 'peel' , the soft , real core in all of us is much more childlike than we like to admit, more natural , more reactive ,
or maybe more detached .
It seldom truly 'lives' the global 'environ' outside , except for moments . It interacts easily , the most natural way , it knows the answers .

Yet , there is another world we cultivate on 'outside' , the old peel of 'adult world' , the ageing fallacy . An illusion of mature, serious world with people dressed in suits who pretend they're into serious business and doing something really important .
Science and religion and whole society staging some kind of 'adult drama' . I'm not saying it's not needed .
Just noting that these are two qualitatively different worlds . Now it's upon each of us to find out which is more 'real and 'advanced' .

:angel:

apokalypse

15th August 2014, 07:37

the danger of humanity isn't any materials but themselves, while i'm on the train having a thought about stuff in society focusing in quanity or interest for the agenda not quality of life as a whole. Regarding AI or Transhumanism, i have one problem with it is we still haven't use our full potential so why depended on technology? like Telepathy...

our soul is infinity so why scared of death?

Daozen

15th August 2014, 07:41

The population will be 10 billion and counting, there'll be a celebration everytime someone is born, and we'll have spread out among the stars.