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Sunny-side-up
22nd July 2014, 13:55
A hypothetical launch concept for you, as a bit of fun with questions!


Imagine if you will the idea for a new way to launch into space!

(A system based around a Massive Air riffle powered by a mountain!)

At this point please don't just laugh and rush off to another Post, this is mainly a theoretical questions techno bit of fun:)

One thing though! you will have to think massive for this concept and I'm posting it here for you members mainly to ask/pose technical exercise and questions!

At first I thought this could be a relatively low tech way to launch solid-payload capsules into a collectable area of low orbit! The payloads might be things like building materials, food, water, supplies etc!
This system if at-all possible would mainly hinge on a massive ground based build/construction/station built on and around a mountain!

It would be:
all built on Earth with already developed engineering abilities,
all run on Earth,
all repaired and maintained on Earth,
all in many ways; comparatively low-tech, comparatively cheep, totally reusable, fast turn around of launches!

all workers, passengers and visitors coming to and or living in the city that would grow near this New-Earth-To-Space-Launch-System!

So If such a concept where to be built it would end up having a new city grow around it, a true space port city where workers and staff of the launch system would live along with there families etc!

This system would be just like a massive Air Riffle firing a shell/capsule into space.

At first I thought it could only be used for solids because of the great acceleration, sudden pressures and speed needed!
but then!
I added an idea of various well timed stages for the initial capsule speed.

This speed could start on and build:
1) conventionally driven rail/train technologies (Built over the flat plains surrounding the mountains base area)
2) next faster stage of rocket power and or a giant Electro-Rail-Gun-Track etc (yes I know I mentioned Rocket! but the difference being, it would be low tech version, just an engine on a track as a massive plunger, used over an over again!) forcing the air pressure into the final Capsule-Launch-Tube/Barrel, which would now be running up the mountain pointing skywards!
3) With the speed of the massive rail plunger forcing great air-pressure into the launch tube, timed with the launch capsule having built up it's speed and so coming together, now gaining the extra needed speed from the air pressure
(Which can be a feathered and variably increased by venting into the launch tube etc) being combined into the launch,
well!
it might be possible to launch soft payloads IE humans?
This capsule might then actually be a small projectile ship who's own on-board engine takes over at a certain altitude etc!

This idea, if it's main mountain component was not viable would make it totally flawed, But! if the mountain part was workable, then a passable concept!
I pose a debate and questions, I would like to give it a look over, call it a mad fun technical exercise if you will!

So any members here with good technical/mathematical abilities and imagination.
If you could ponder on the many variables of the plungers :size/head area, weight, speed, drop height of the mountain rail giving the needed air pressure? and so power/force to launch a payload into low orbit!

Could such a Mountain-Powered-Massive-Air-Riffle give a projectile it's needed launch speed?

Bearing in mind it's not all due to Mountain-height that would be giving the needed power/speed but, a combination of well timed existing ground based technologies!

So like I said this could be a relatively low tech, ground based massive Reusable Air-Riffle Launch to Low Orbit System. A system like this might be able to have a quick turn around launch of many times per month/week?

If this was all possible it would equal a very fast cheep way to get building materials (For Space Stations and or Built in Space Rockets/Ships), fuel, and all other supplies into orbit. If soft payloads would be possible, well a true commuting into space of humans could be reality!

Plus, side products of energies:

1) If the massive plunger was also copper coil wrapped and the compression chamber a copper coiled tunnel! couldn't eclectic energy be made?
2) Such a Massive plunger causing massive compression wouldn't that also produce great heat? and so heat to electric energies conversion, more usable energy as a side product
3) Such a massive plunger producing vast amount of air pressure might have excess to be channeled off to produce yet more side product energies?
4) if over sized and so producing such vast amounts of pressure, well! maybe more than one launch tube a time, a soft and solid launch's!

So please give it a good thinking over, treat it as a bit of a technical fun exercise ;)

Theoretically I would love to see the many possible combinations of speed, height, size etc that would be needed to make such a launch system!

(One possible negative side effect from such a massive air riffle would be the effects of the air jet released into the sky 0.o ? but then no! even that at the last minute after launch could be dissipated in some way hmm!)

AriG
22nd July 2014, 15:06
Sounds really cool! Sounds waaaayy out of my league. Going to email this over to my husband (electro-mechanical engineer/physicist) to see what he thinks. He has certainly heard some hair brained ideas from me so he will probably see your idea as well put together.

sirdipswitch
22nd July 2014, 15:13
Great idea and sounds quite pluasable, were it not for the fact of transporters and teleportaion technology that has been in use now for more than 40 years. That WE, (our Secret Government) has been using to transport people and "Things", to and from Mars and the Moon, from Earth. Why just put something into Orbit, when you can send it all the way, both cheaper and easier?

conk
22nd July 2014, 15:17
Didn't the Germans have an air cannon that projected a 700 lb payload over 23 miles? If they could do that in the 1940s......

Chip
22nd July 2014, 15:32
I like the idea however feel that this Newtonian concept is going backwards with technology rather than forwards. It's like trying to make the combustion engine more efficient rather than obsolete as it should be.
Not to mention no human body would be capable of the initial G forces that would take place.
But, it's fun to think about!
It's ashame that we no longer have human space exploration to help us with our fascination and dreams.

countertheanimator
22nd July 2014, 16:30
1) If the massive plunger was also copper coil wrapped and the compression chamber a copper coiled tunnel! couldn't eclectic energy be made?

This...is a problem.
The faraday law states that if you induce electrical energy into a conductor, the conductor will slow you down/act like a repulsion.

Good idea, but missing some professional points.
I might be able to help you with some explanations. :)

araucaria
22nd July 2014, 16:41
Didn't the Germans have an air cannon that projected a 700 lb payload over 23 miles? If they could do that in the 1940s......
The German Big Bertha could fire 106 kg 130 km (all the way to Paris) back in 1918
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Gun

Sunny-side-up
22nd July 2014, 18:10
thx all for replys so far ;)

thx AriG


Sounds really cool! Sounds waaaayy out of my league. Going to email this over to my husband (electro-mechanical engineer/physicist) to see what he thinks. He has certainly heard some hair brained ideas from me so he will probably see your idea as well put together.

look fowards to any of your husbands thoughts on this ;)

thx sirdipswitch


Great idea and sounds quite pluasable, were it not for the fact of transporters and teleportaion technology that has been in use now for more than 40 years. That WE, (our Secret Government) has been using to transport people and "Things", to and from Mars and the Moon, from Earth. Why just put something into Orbit, when you can send it all the way, both cheaper and easier?
That is of-cause very true,but I'm just surmising that we haven't got such technology right here and now!

and I just wondering on the mathematical calculations as to yes or no with this hypothetical launch concept!



I like the idea however feel that this Newtonian concept is going backwards with technology rather than forwards. It's like trying to make the combustion engine more efficient rather than obsolete as it should be.
Not to mention no human body would be capable of the initial G forces that would take place.
But, it's fun to think about!
It's ashame that we no longer have human space exploration to help us with our fascination and dreams.thx for reply ;)

No problem for launching hundreds of solid materials though ha?
and as for soft payloads like humans, I mentioned a gradual, step up of speed on some super fast liner-accelerator- rail-track before entering the compressed air barrel, this barrel being a multiplying staged compression, not just one first hit massive pressure, and even then this capsule would have it's own engine that kicks in to take it on into orbit!

If we at this time in our life on Earth lost the advanced technology to make rockets that could go into orbit, all the way on their own power that is (Complex) well if this low technology launcher would be very worth while ha!

And like I said could well have a very fast relaunch after relaunch turn around, mass materials into space for constructions!

Looking forward for any more reply's..

countertheanimator
22nd July 2014, 22:17
It might even work without explosives or compressed air. Like an electrical rail gun.
Module has it's own electrical field. Area around it has the same. It will for sure act like a projectile!

wnlight
23rd July 2014, 01:45
This idea in your post and also the rail gun would work for any payload that can withstand the tremendous G force necessary for launch. The problem for humans is that all necessary energy for terminal velocity must be imparted to the vehicle within the short distance of the launch device (i.e. rail). The concept in your posting is definitely acceptable for supplies, etc.

I'm waiting for Clark's elevator. :)

sirdipswitch
23rd July 2014, 02:26
Our real space program, has had Anti-Gravity, since the 50s'.

countertheanimator
23rd July 2014, 10:13
Our real space program, has had Anti-Gravity, since the 50s'.

Since the 30's* to be correct :)