The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

[Bill Ryan]

-------------

Hi, Guys, please listen up for a moment.

This thread is inspired by one of the recent 'disclosure prediction' threads that turned out to be yet another deliberate hoax (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?7304-New-Prediction-Disclosure!-New-Date-Oct-29-2010!&p=63013&viewfull=1#post63013).

This is not a shot any any individual member here: but I strongly feel that Avalon members should have a responsibility NOT to forward fake or hokey predictions or 'channeled messages' - which is currently happening at a rate of one or more a week.

We don't need this kind of nonsense in a climate of the times that could not be more serious. There ARE very critical things happening quietly in the world, and the real signals get lost in all the 'noise'.

Be very sure that this is intended.

Folks, I ask you: don't needlessly add to the noise.

I always wanted Avalon to be about quality rather than quantity: for people to be able to come here quickly and find a digest of good information and intelligent discussion.

To re-post any junk on YouTube or Facebook that catches our eye, thinking we're doing the members a service, might be a well-intended error of judgment. Please always use your intelligence and discrimination.

I'm no friend or fan of ATS, but the mods there immediately deleted a thread about the recent "The Agency" 'prediction' of a 'radioactive satellite' over Munich on 20 October, that was really a forecast comet - not only because it was clearly false, but because the writer urged that it must 'go viral'.

They were quite correct to censor this cheap nonsense and stop it in its tracks. Our collective alternative knowledge base is being deliberately infected by information of zero or negative value in the same way as our computers (or bodies!) can become infected with viruses.

The presence of the zero-value add-ons decreases our capacity to function optimally. In this case, we're rendered less able to evaluate authentic information. This is one reason why I find myself increasingly unsympathetic to hoaxes, hoaxers and other forms of knowledge devaluation, and have made some of the decisions I've made in the last year.

This is not in any way 'censoring the truth movement': the real truth is far more incredible and unbelievable than any fiction.

I want to make the real truth easier to see by flitering out the distractions - some of which are deliberate, and some of which are just naive.

In 2005-6 I was closely involved in the 'Serpo story (http://serpo.org/final_update.php)'. It was a really valuable experience. Much of that was nonsense (and it got more and more ridiculous as the 'disclosure' was sabotaged from inside): but some was certainly true. It was worth discussing at first until it just became way too crazy and was eventually completely derailed. By that time I had abandoned it.

That's when I learned the priceless lesson that the truth in the alternative community is much more about PR than about actual facts. PR wins every time. And the insiders also understand this very well. They're masters at playing their cards.

So, don't help them win their game. Really intelligent analysis is the answer. But that takes time, and care, and real research. The insiders count on you not to bother to do all that.

They financed the creation of Facebook, and there's a good reason for their smart investment. The 'noise' is WAY amplified there. That's why I have no Facebook page, and never use it.

Indirectly related to this: please don't re-post YouTube videos with no comment, or with a simple statement like "Hey, Guys, look at this". I and many others will never watch a video unless someone tells me why I should spend the time. Please be smart and caring enough to summarize in your own words what the added value is.

Added value is what it's all about. If you're NOT adding value, then just keep reading. Though some of them are hard to find, Avalon has over 6,000 threads which contain enough good material to keep us all busy for a very long time.

My best wishes to all - Bill

[The One]

Well said Bill im with you on this

[Eric J (Viking)]

Yes point taken Bill.

Although we do have quite a few sleepy heads on 'facebook' I do get messaged by a few whom I have woken up!! The majority think I'm loopy!! ha ha

So anyway, I find it a good way to make this type of connection for getting folk out of the 'slumber' , so to speak.

viking

[Swami]

Exaxtly the reason why I have moved on to another place on the net...

Thx for posting this Bill

[bluestflame]

not in short supply to the Chinese anyway lol ( they control around 97% of its production )

[Celine]

Thank you Bill.

Perhaps a short list of topics that you feel we should keep our eyes on , might help.

There are so many, as has been said... what ball do we keep our eye on?

What do you believe requires more research?

You have dozens of people here willing to reasearch any topic..

but with all the noise..

maybe we just need to be pointed in the right direction?

[Scott]

Ahh a nice deep breath of fresh air.

Good Advise Bill, Its good to see you have been in the research business long enough to have the memory to spot the "Oh please not again, gimmie a break" stories that float up repeatedly and grow over time, just to take a break for a few months or years only to be reborn with different names/dates/places & cast of characters.

Cheers

[Salv8tion]

Thank you Bill.

Perhaps a short list of topics that you feel we should keep our eyes on , might help.

There are so many, as has been said... what ball do we keep our eye on?

What do you believe requires more research?

You have dozens of people here willing to reasearch any topic..

but with all the noise..

maybe we just need to be pointed in the right direction?

I've always wondered the same thing-- if someone where to start ANYWHERE when first "awakening", where should that be and why?

[noxon medem]

Thank you, Bill.
For the Avalon Forum, and this accurate reminder.
The noise on the content side of the forum is not the reason for this reply,
but I could add the advantage of people searching the forum for previous
entries of the material they are starting new threads on, or posting.
There is quite a lot on the forum allready, and now with thousands of
participants it grows fast, and double and triple postings of the same,
or similar "things" is better kept at a minimum. Sometimes it's a point.
Posts can be moved, and threads can be merged, I know, but the more
disiplined and educated we are on the use of Avalon Forum the better,
not least for the moderators and administrators. Thank you all.

- On the technical side:
The forum seems to be a work in progress, that is nice, and design and
features develop over time. Example is the stars that came and went, ok.
I like it better like it is now. Simple, easy and selfexplainatory is better.
( the star-thing did actualy create some noise if I remember correct ..)
- Gonna use the searchfunction now to see if I find back the post/thread.
No, don't find it back by searching for "star" or "stars", but found this:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?5029-Robert-Morningsky-Meeting-with-Star-Elders.
this
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?247-Rapture-Flyby-blue-star-Superwave
and this
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?4274-Love-Music&highlight=stars

The point being the usefulness of the search-engine.
A random-button would be nice there, maybe with some keywords, date etc. from all the forum archive.
Press it, and something interesting from the past pops up. Nice.

I visited this thread today:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1281-New-Modifications-to-forum
Two words about the new Thank You function. At first I disliked it (keep it simple, and real), but
have come to appreciate that kind of button. A suggestion, if possible, isto add the possibility to
include a few words with the thank-you entry, - there is many reasons why a post is useful.
There is now a date ( oct 29. 2010 f.ex ) included with name in thankyou-log under posts.
- Could the same 15-20 characters be used for something else ?

Sorry for bringing all this tech-stuff up here. Hope it is relevant to the ratio between constructive use and noise.
And the above mentioned thread (New-Modifications-to-forum) is not open to general discussion, very well
understandable. It is for important information to us, to use this forum as smooth and efficient as possible.

:ranger:

[treeman]

Hello BILL,
AWESOME - Glad to see those points raised.
- Believe in QUALITY not QUANTITY
- Not here to improve upon my POSTING figures (so shall remain a Junior), proud of it.
There are far TOO MANY - KEYBOARD WARRIORS that can input information/ opinion (mostly hear/say) and still remain anonymous.
Reading from the same page - Bill...I would like to add my GBP2 worth by saying, "It's about the NUMBERS".
I rarely contribute to forums, this being my third time. I feel strongly drawn to - 'Watching the numbers', as they don't add up.
WHAT ARE NUMBERS GOOD FOR?
They get used, abused, manipulated, etc etc...follow the BANKS, follow the FT, look at GOLD at the end of 2008 it was $755 an ounce,
now (October 2010) is - $1300 an ounce....so it's going to be a slow transition. If you want the money then begin with small numbers,
then another small deduction, then another - until they get greedy....you don't take a truck load (well...you can), but somebody I hope
would pick-up the accounting error quite quickly.
ITS ALL ABOUT THE NUMBERS TO THE PEOPLE WHO RELY ON THEM MOST.
Please stay true to the spirit of this forum,
In Spirit
Treeman.

[noxon medem]

It is not allways easy for all to know if the interesting things
they find and post are allready known as hoaxes or fiction.
Maybe someone in the know could make a little list of the
" usual suspects " and post it here to inform us all.

[Ahkenaten]

Why would anyone want to be "pointed in the right direction"??!! We need to stay grounded in our own intelligence and intuitive abilities to winnow the wheat from the chaff.................................thanks Bill for what you have said, and to others for what they contribute. Lacking clear leadership we must build our internal strengths and self-reliance.................we must report back to Headquarters (our highest selves) on a regular basis and then make informed decisions in the clearest manner possible. We must not lose faith in ourselves........

[Humble Janitor]

Yes point taken Bill.

Although we do have quite a few sleepy heads on 'facebook' I do get messaged by a few whom I have woken up!! The majority think I'm loopy!! ha ha

So anyway, I find it a good way to make this type of connection for getting folk out of the 'slumber' , so to speak.

viking

Most of my friends don't even comment. My posts must be blocked from their walls.

Bill has a wonderful point though. I'm sick of reading prediction threads. From now on, I predict sunny skies ahead and that's a prediction that you can almost bank on!

[perfectresonance]

You can choose a very simple answer to this.

BE the change. In the whole Universe, the only 'thing' you have most control over is you.

And do it so well with so much obvious enjoyment and inner peace so it makes those around you go


"I'll have what s/he's having".

And to those of Avalon that aren't ready, and produce so much noise, treat them as children: with a huge amount of tolerance. They just need time. :thumb:

[Ahkenaten]

OK and this is merely from my personal point of view, here is my list of suspect topics and 'informational' sources that one minimally should take with at least several grains of sea-salt if not a few tablets of tylenol:

Individuals:

David Wilcock
Andrew Basagio
Bill Deagle (sorry Bill)
Benjamin Fulford
Dan Burisch
Jordan Maxwell
Alex Jones
Malchidezek Drunvalo
Channelers of all stripes
Art Bell
Billy Meier
Alex Collier

Information that should be reviewed with extreme skepticism and caution:

The Works of Zachariah Sitchin
Works of Channelers of All Stripes
The Course in Miracles
Translations or interpretations of ancient texts by those other than scholars conversant in the language and texts

[perfectresonance]

My comments on some of those are inserted:


OK and this is merely from my personal point of view, here is my list of suspect topics and 'informational' sources that one minimally should take with at least several grains of sea-salt if not a few tablets of tylenol:

Individuals:

David Wilcock <-- excellent researcher and aggregator, but astoundingly immature
Bill Deagle (sorry Bill) <-- if there is something genuine, it can't be picked from the diatribe
Dan Burisch <-- complete frauds - direct and multiple experiences
Art Bell <-- (wot? he's just an announcer, let's not go too far)

[Celine]

Lacking clear leadership we must build our internal strengths and self-reliance.................we must report back to Headquarters (our highest selves) on a regular basis and then make informed decisions in the clearest manner possible. We must not lose faith in ourselves........

IMHO we are all Leaders..here to gather info so we can carry it to our immediate world.




BE the change. In the whole Universe, the only 'thing' you have most control over is you.


Be the change you wish to see in the world.. ~Gandhi

Great words ..he was full of them! But he also lived his words and shared them. Thats what we are here for IMO


OK and this is merely from my personal point of view,

Each and everyone of your views is valuable. Each bring a perspective that whether you agree or not, teaches each one of us something.


The quality of Avalon is you.


Avalon, the Mythical island that held the truths. Priestesses trained to learn the truths, applications and wisdom and then to part the mists and go and share the truths with all.

That is the quality of Avalon, mythical or practical.

Libraries of information are VERY important to our futur world.


Truth is fragile yet powerful

Protect it, so we can change the world.


In trust with love,
celine

[kinsuemei2]

Hi Bill,

I understand and agree with what you are saying, I would like to say that Bill, I have said I respect your opinion and I do, but I would like to perhaps remind you that maybe when you were younger or before you went through the ‘SERPO’ information you might have been open to a lot more, now you have been led down various paths and got to see aspects that were not so black and white, then as they might be now.

My point is you have enormous experience and learned from your experiences, not everybody does that and not everybody is at the same level of thinking as yourself, and I think you have got to remember that, and I am not saying that Bill is better than anybody here, but his mind attacks issues with a different and practical way of thinking, and I think forgets that whilst awake some of us are we still fall victim to the initial programming that we were all once apart of so we see a story on the news and immediately spread it instead of investigate it or try to look at other aspects around this area and come up with a logical and probable conclusion.

And I am not saying everybody it does that, but it is easy to fall victim to that trap, were here to learn and we all have different experiences, I remember a discussion between two men upon viewing a avalanche at MT Rainier, and one man said that it was the most horrifying act of natures power he had ever seen, whilst his companion said that he said it was an awesome display and exhilarating being so close to it. So we all have our perspectives. Just as long as Bill is saying they are not just noise and clatter.

Everybody who knows me knows that I have a huge problem with people predicting natural disasters events, or anything like that because we have spread fear through this, and in my mind it’s like a perpetuation of the devil and hell, if we don’t repent we will die and go to hell and these stories spread and cause genuine fear. And I for one know the real DANGER of spreading information, because sometimes best intentions are not the best way course of action and I think especially in Avalon people need to sit down and think about what they post, because every other month we have a channeled apocalypse of sorts and I thank Bill for this post because the negative aspects are what made me stop posting for a good while here in Avalon.

I think were looking for practical problems here and I’ll give an example : Full body X-ray machines, at airports I asked a source at the university of Michigan who is very worried by this, if you have a very large person and you put them in this machine you can still see through then with the power of this X-Ray machines, now rule of thumb is you change the amount of radiation per amount of body fat / density right? Well this machine seems to have a standard and this “Could” be a massive sterilization process to halt the ever expanding society, because I have never met a TSA worker that was also a radiologist. This can be harmful for Pregnant women, and I don’t recall them putting a lead coat over the family jewels in this machine and that’s why it looks like sterilization and I think this is a big topic and one that seriously needs addressing.

,Ahkenaten I remember your little attack on me in the “confusion Reigns” thread a while back, and twisting my screen name. I have no issue with you and am not bothered I do ask that you be civil this time around please :) Thank you.

[Everlight]

Hi Bill, I am truly impressed with the quality of postings and true contributions... not noise! Such an amazing gathering of aware folks here. Everlight

[sjkted]

My suggestion to newcomers:

research the money and formation/establishment of government in relation to money. It's one big area that affects everyone, is very factual, cannot be debunked, and can be discussed with other people without being branded as a "crazy". It's also the basis of the whole control system and IMO if you understand how the money/power system really works, it provides a very easy intro to understanding the hows and whys of everything else in this twisted world.

--sjkted

[Carmody]

The biggest problem with mass experience is that it is based upon reactive logic.

[redeyeblue]

Well said Bill !
There is quite enough BS floating around to drown us all.

[Tigger]

:bump:
This thread needs bumping. The essential information and wisdom required during 2011 is subtle and definitely has very little to do with most external events. Distractions abound all around you, many disguised as sensational snippets of irrelevant information.

You can't change the world in a year. But you sure can do a LOT to change your relationship with it.
Clear your mind and listen carefully.

"Already know you, that which you need." - Yoda

[Richard]

:bump:
This thread needs bumping. The essential information and wisdom required during 2011 is subtle and definitely has very little to do with most external events. Distractions abound all around you, many disguised as sensational snippets of irrelevant information.

You can't change the world in a year. But you sure can do a LOT to change your relationship with it.
Clear your mind and listen carefully.

"Already know you, that which you need." - Yoda

Agreed tigger. bumped again

[bluestflame]

in the stillness , things subtle and hidden are more readily observed

[Transdimensional Bean Pod]

Again, bumped. Seems especially so with the influx of newbies, such as myself. I'm working hard to break my habit of being too mouthy too fast. This is a mighty smart crowd. I'm getting a lot out of reading stuff. Frankly, it's a bit intimidating dipping ones toes in these waters, especially with the present level of intensity. Thanks for making this a quality site, Bill and crew.

[_M_]

We live in a world where we are primarily 'head' focused - it is understandable that many people speak their minds before they weigh the merrit of those words with their hearts. This forum is a good place to practice much weighing...

[dcflux]

I must say... Bill, I have been a big follower of you and Kerry for several years now. I never joined as a member here in the past but enjoyed much of the content; I do not know why I never joined until now... but I think the main reason is broken down into two parts... after the split at Camelot, I lost you there for a while. You did not post much and I really found that your perspective at Camelot was just brilliant. I do love you and Kerry both but I found myself rooting for you much of the time as your ideas, questions, and manners where simply inspiring. I have learned a lot from watching you conduct yourself. So... You are back. You bring along a new contact that is very intriguing and I can see in your 1st interview with Charles that something is different. Not only in your way but by your radiance. Much of the confirmation that was received by Charles was a synchronicity for me due to the fact that I had been having several of those universe moments with many of the concepts that he put forward. The second main reason for the join... the main forum that I frequent the most just got too littered with trivial babble and bickering. It seemed to be a waste of time with not much direction. I am searching for a new home and am sure that I found it! I have been visiting with many of the members, quietly, in the background and really appreciate the level of exchange that your forum members engage in. Now you have this post and I am happy to hear that you will put valuable effort into maintaining a high level of dialog here. For that, I thank you. I am only a provisional member now and I expect to get caught up to speed as soon as I can. Until then... I guess in the grand scope of things... this is just a little bit of noise without much signal except to say keep up the good work.

Cheers,

:D

[Icecold]

I must say... Bill, I have been a big follower of you and Kerry for several years now. I never joined as a member here in the past but enjoyed much of the content; I do not know why I never joined until now... but I think the main reason is broken down into two parts... after the split at Camelot, I lost you there for a while. You did not post much and I really found that your perspective at Camelot was just brilliant. I do love you and Kerry both but I found myself rooting for you much of the time as your ideas, questions, and manners where simply inspiring. I have learned a lot from watching you conduct yourself. So... You are back. You bring along a new contact that is very intriguing and I can see in your 1st interview with Charles that something is different. Not only in your way but by your radiance. Much of the confirmation that was received by Charles was a synchronicity for me due to the fact that I had been having several of those universe moments with many of the concepts that he put forward. The second main reason for the join... the main forum that I frequent the most just got too littered with trivial babble and bickering. It seemed to be a waste of time with not much direction. I am searching for a new home and am sure that I found it! I have been visiting with many of the members, quietly, in the background and really appreciate the level of exchange that your forum members engage in. Now you have this post and I am happy to hear that you will put valuable effort into maintaining a high level of dialog here. For that, I thank you. I am only a provisional member now and I expect to get caught up to speed as soon as I can. Until then... I guess in the grand scope of things... this is just a little bit of noise without much signal except to say keep up the good work.

Cheers,

:D

I understand exactly what you are saying dcflux. Good thoughts. BTW if its not a rude question, from which forum have you moved?

[luking]

I have learned a lot from watching you conduct yourself. So... You are back.

I couldn't agree more, dcflux. Camelot/Avalon has changed my outlook on so many things, but I just now realized how I also appreciate Bill's leader/teacher qualities. It motivates me to offer my own talents where I can, and the whole thing builds organically into game-changing thought structures.

Hooray for Avalon!

[JoeNashville]

Well said Bill! There is too much of that on the Web in general. Reposted crap and assorted BS. And the worst thing is people who are reposting or linking material aren't giving proper credit to the author so one who wants to follow up can look into it properly. It's frustrating. I'm glad you made it clear!

[Bill Ryan]

:bump:
This thread needs bumping. The essential information and wisdom required during 2011 is subtle and definitely has very little to do with most external events. Distractions abound all around you, many disguised as sensational snippets of irrelevant information.

Agreed. :)

:bump:

[CdnSirian]

Glad this was bumped. I am still newer here, balancing the reading of the current discussions, and foraying back into older ones, as I can. Cheers, all. :)

[bearcow]

a quote from carmody

The biggest problem with mass experience is that it is based upon reactive logic.


what does this mean? it means a large number of forum members have a tendency to get swept up into the latest drama and create a mob type mentality

if you look at the list of most viewed posts over the last 30 days, almost all of them are drama based fluff.

Are you here for entertainment? the drama of the alternative community rivals any prime-time soap opera. UFO's, secret societies, and Armageddon scenarios are the stuff of box office hits. is that the allure that Avalon has for you? what motivates you in starting a thread? is it excitement? do you seek attention? or are you genuinely trying to add to the reservoir of insightful information available for those who come after you?

your rulers see you as unintelligent animals, easily distracted and subverted. That is their justification for treating you as their play toys. they feel they have the right to control your mind because you have no control over it yourself. they gain amusement by watching you weave your way through the maze of life thinking the answer is just around the corner.

no.

the maze is built for one reason only, to keep you moving, so you never consider the fact that the constant self induced movement within the maze is the prison, not the maze itself. there is no need for another Atticus to come along and try to derail this forum, for its members are doing a much better job than he ever could!

you could be so much more, but viewing you as a group, i cant say i disagree with them.

if you cannot learn to self censor, discern and calmly deliberate, this forum will fail in helping you see the light, it will only strengthen the hold of maya upon you.

[Borden]

Thanks, Bill - I agree completely.

I believe the threads that inspired you to make this comment are by and large well meaning and from a desire to share something which the poster finds interesting, but yes - it is noise. I don't post things I've found on the Internet, and because of that I have sometimes felt that I might be viewed as a redundant poster who only talks about his opinions rather than act as an amateur journalist. I hope this isn't necessarily a bad thing.

There are some great posts I find here - from various places - clips, etc ... but I agree completely that when it's entitled 'you must watch this' or similar, but with no real explanation, it gets a little wearing. I can't reach into the bran tub every time.

Bill, I would be interested to know what you think about threads that are not necessarily linked to a current piece of news but are rather the insights and opinions on a certain subject that a member feels he or she needs to share. What are the criteria for it being an Avalon-worthy comment? I know you don't set yourself up as dictator of this place, but I am interested to know your feelings about where you would rather the general attention focus. I'm sure you're as sick and tired as I am of the enormous attention on in fighting and hurt feelings that I feel have almost dominated this forum recently.

Borden

[HORIZONS]

a quote from carmody

The biggest problem with mass experience is that it is based upon reactive logic.


what does this mean? it means a large number of forum members have a tendency to get swept up into the latest drama and create a mob type mentality

if you look at the list of most viewed posts over the last 30 days, almost all of them are drama based fluff.

Are you here for entertainment? the drama of the alternative community rivals any prime-time soap opera. UFO's, secret societies, and Armageddon scenarios are the stuff of box office hits. is that the allure that Avalon has for you? what motivates you in starting a thread? is it excitement? do you seek attention? or are you genuinely trying to add to the reservoir of insightful information available for those who come after you?

your rulers see you as unintelligent animals, easily distracted and subverted. That is their justification for treating you as their play toys. they feel they have the right to control your mind because you have no control over it yourself. they gain amusement by watching you weave your way through the maze of life thinking the answer is just around the corner.

no.

the maze is built for one reason only, to keep you moving, so you never consider the fact that the constant self induced movement within the maze is the prison, not the maze itself. there is no need for another Atticus to come along and try to derail this forum, for its members are doing a much better job than he ever could!

you could be so much more, but viewing you as a group, i cant say i disagree with them.

if you cannot learn to self censor, discern and calmly deliberate, this forum will fail in helping you see the light, it will only strengthen the hold of maya upon you.

It's all part of the illusion - the matrix - to keep us firmly in the game - and it is working very well. Why? because otherwise we just might break some experiential loops and break free from this game of illusions - the matrix - and find ourselves an escape hatch and graduate out of here. But the game is very creative in its hold on us, and the DNA commands are strong indeed, so we continue on rehashing the same old game structures and paradigms. But it is all part of our journey - our quest - and our experiences will teach us many things - its all a part of the learning and growing process. Just my observation ~

[Eagle Eye]

This thread deserve to be in first page all time

bump

[Rocky_Shorz]

reading Bill's post does sound like it was written for what is going on now, can we sticky this one?



-------------

Hi, Guys, please listen up for a moment.

This thread is inspired by one of the recent 'disclosure prediction' threads that turned out to be yet another deliberate hoax (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?7304-New-Prediction-Disclosure!-New-Date-Oct-29-2010!&p=63013&viewfull=1#post63013).

This is not a shot any any individual member here: but I strongly feel that Avalon members should have a responsibility NOT to forward fake or hokey predictions or 'channeled messages' - which is currently happening at a rate of one or more a week.

We don't need this kind of nonsense in a climate of the times that could not be more serious. There ARE very critical things happening quietly in the world, and the real signals get lost in all the 'noise'.

Be very sure that this is intended.

Folks, I ask you: don't needlessly add to the noise.

I always wanted Avalon to be about quality rather than quantity: for people to be able to come here quickly and find a digest of good information and intelligent discussion.

To re-post any junk on YouTube or Facebook that catches our eye, thinking we're doing the members a service, might be a well-intended error of judgment. Please always use your intelligence and discrimination.

I'm no friend or fan of ATS, but the mods there immediately deleted a thread about the recent "The Agency" 'prediction' of a 'radioactive satellite' over Munich on 20 October, that was really a forecast comet - not only because it was clearly false, but because the writer urged that it must 'go viral'.

They were quite correct to censor this cheap nonsense and stop it in its tracks. Our collective alternative knowledge base is being deliberately infected by information of zero or negative value in the same way as our computers (or bodies!) can become infected with viruses.

The presence of the zero-value add-ons decreases our capacity to function optimally. In this case, we're rendered less able to evaluate authentic information. This is one reason why I find myself increasingly unsympathetic to hoaxes, hoaxers and other forms of knowledge devaluation, and have made some of the decisions I've made in the last year.

This is not in any way 'censoring the truth movement': the real truth is far more incredible and unbelievable than any fiction.

I want to make the real truth easier to see by flitering out the distractions - some of which are deliberate, and some of which are just naive.

In 2005-6 I was closely involved in the 'Serpo story (http://serpo.org/final_update.php)'. It was a really valuable experience. Much of that was nonsense (and it got more and more ridiculous as the 'disclosure' was sabotaged from inside): but some was certainly true. It was worth discussing at first until it just became way too crazy and was eventually completely derailed. By that time I had abandoned it.

That's when I learned the priceless lesson that the truth in the alternative community is much more about PR than about actual facts. PR wins every time. And the insiders also understand this very well. They're masters at playing their cards.

So, don't help them win their game. Really intelligent analysis is the answer. But that takes time, and care, and real research. The insiders count on you not to bother to do all that.

They financed the creation of Facebook, and there's a good reason for their smart investment. The 'noise' is WAY amplified there. That's why I have no Facebook page, and never use it.

Indirectly related to this: please don't re-post YouTube videos with no comment, or with a simple statement like "Hey, Guys, look at this". I and many others will never watch a video unless someone tells me why I should spend the time. Please be smart and caring enough to summarize in your own words what the added value is.

Added value is what it's all about. If you're NOT adding value, then just keep reading. Though some of them are hard to find, Avalon has over 6,000 threads which contain enough good material to keep us all busy for a very long time.

My best wishes to all - Bill

[Bill Ryan]

:bump:

<-- after a couple of threads were started recently (about silly claims supposedly by Ed Snowden copied from an openly satirical site, believed by some members to be factual).

To all members: please do your research before starting new threads about topics that waste members' time.

There are over 55,000 threads on Avalon, including some real gems that you will not find anywhere else. There are life-changing jewels here of very high value. Please don't bury them in too much mud!

[ulli]

With Avalon having such a diversity of members and there being also so many different stages of awakening, or transformation, I suppose we will always find newcomers posting disinformation, since they are only beginners at the discernment game. While some posts are deliberately aimed at spreading disinformation, the majority is done innocently.
At the other end of the spectrum there are people who have been investigating UFO and other phenomena all of their lives and lived through the nineties when websites covering such topics were still genuine, before the PTB discovered that they only weapon against their secrets being exposed via the Internet was to use part of their budget to put out false info, and spread confusion via half truths ...as websites they considered dangerous could not be taken down.

So the way an investigative mind would respond is by developing its intuitive faculties and learn to discern at just one glance what is real and what is fake.
Which in my view might be THE main purpose of life on this planet.
This intuition is actually the most positive outcome of the information wars,
and may well be the saving grace of all humanity.
The path leads from naïveté to cynicism, only to settle later in life at a midpoint between the two.
Hopefully.

[Akasha]

I have to say, the irony within this thread is making me chuckle. Isn't the thanks button there to avoid the need for reams of "yeah, I agree" type posts, thus keeping the quality:quantity ratio of Avalon up there where it should be?

[Another1]

I have to say, the irony within this thread is making me chuckle. Isn't the thanks button there to avoid the need for reams of "yeah, I agree" type posts, thus keeping the quality:quantity ratio of Avalon up there where it should be?

yea, I agree :bolt:

sorry, couldn't resist



The definitions of noise and signal are fun to witness if you travel around the web a bit.

Tonight once again my friends tried to help me understand that in a way this is simply the laws of this verse
which we witness online.
Balancing of energies.
Fred says aliens are coming to eat us.
Jim says there are some good ones who want to buy us lunch.

Mary says the guberment is a totally corrupt monster hell bound to enslave or kill us all.
Susie says there are people just like you and me in the machine who will make a move the day they know it's right.

I have noticed, almost without exception:
- the people who seek peace and believe it's possible are usually soft spoken, polite and don't really push much. They offer.
In my opinion as a fellow traveler, this is a signal
- the people looking forward to it all falling apart are highly vocal, well versed in the art of subtle ridicule. They tell you what will be.
In my opinion as a fellow traveler, this is noise

[Pam]

I couldn't agree more with you, Bill. Having said that I think it is necessary to remember that there is not one among us that has not been taken in and later felt foolish for falling for the scam. A case in point was the "Dr. Sal" debacle . Some of the brightest minds on PA were originally taken in by this. What I found interesting was the process of fact finding that occurred to get to the truth of the matter....this was a very important tool for me to learn from. So I guess some of this kind of thing is a double edged sword.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Thanks for the reminder Bill.

I wonder what the pertinent topics really are, myself. With that in mind, I would suggest that perhaps this road to, what, comprehension?, is personal, as much useful experience and knowledge can be gained from a circuitous route, through many varried topics to understand the mix, 67% this, 1% that, a few points for whatis. Pertinent, immediate data can be meaningless to those unintiated to the full spectrum of this crazy ruse we call modern life.

Not to mention the personal work that needs to be done in order to even be open to the truth. And we all have our own demons, and angels, of course. So that also predicates what direction is best for any given individual. We all have our talents.

I also agree that there is a strong intuitive aspect to this game of finding the truth, no? An aspect I find you, Bill, and many here at Avalon seem to use often, that's why I'm here. I do the same.

And then there are the levels of truth, the layering of it, the subterfuge that data sets can root out. Some here shine at posting these pertinent tidbits.

When a silly thread comes up I often don't even enter, and if I do I soon pass it by. Those are the obvious ones we're talking about, I guess. Predictions of calamity? - I'm with you, no thanks, especially if they come with dates! Other threads may seem trivial and then some obscure piece will suddenly fall into place unexpectedly. How would we ensure that sort of info does not get filtered out?

I see some old timers agree with you too, nice to see you folks.

Thanks Bill

[Ultima Thule]

An individual mind out of control, runs on idle and thousand thoughts are formed, beginning from nowhere, going nowhere. Meditation, mindfulness and other similar practices could be seen as aiming to get the proverbial gear on and focus on what actually is significant.

To my understanding due to humanbeings capability to interact neurally among ourselves creates a sort of neural unity among a community of interacting individuals. We therefore as individuals in Avalon are an analogy for single neurons in a big brain we co-create.

Again today looking at the front page of New Posts it occurred to me that in whatever time you read it, the content is stereotypical. Threads may be new, but the basic concepts of threads are the same, no matter when is it. We are running as a collective brain/mind too much on idle, and I would´t mind seeing a collective effort in here to cut back the noise/mindless chatter a bit.

I challenge you to look at the latest front page of New Posts and go to any consecutive page in that listing and you find the same general mix of "New conspiracy found", "Archeology this and that", "New groundbreaking channelling info", "Disclosure of UFOs imminent", "New world order doing bad stuff", "New world order just about to break", "I feel so good, what is it about?" and "I feel so bad, what is it about?" - not to forget latest from Ben. How about we again try to turn the noise down a bit and see collectively what really surfaces?

Now don´t get me wrong, I very much understand that each person having an awakening period in ones life propably goes through many of the same stages and find things that upsets him. This is then reported, which is in itself fine and commendable, but when looking back, how many imminent, groundbreaking things really have been just that? In all probability the same ratio is found there than in an individuals mind between really significant revelations and the mindless chatter that we carry on while running on idle, jumping between past and the future.

UT

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Hi, All:

Some of you may find this PM interesting — one I wrote today to someone who's been somewhat critical of how I and we appear to conduct ourselves on Avalon, from their point of view.

I thought it might be valuable to share, as some perspectives I've explained might not be apparent to everyone, and might be useful and appreciated.

I have of course retained full anonymity of the person I was writing to. Some of the original has been amended, and added to, for public sharing here.






Dear ________ ,

It seems your main complaint is that totally everything should be transparent and up for grabs for members to know and discuss. That's just not the case.

Re Christine, I'd kept that relationship totally quiet SPECIFICALLY IN ORDER TO PROTECT HER FROM ATTACKS AND SMEARS. Right from the beginning... ask her. That was none of the rest of the world's business, you see. The hyenas out often there lose no opportunity in attacking or trying to smear one's closest relatives or partners. Anything that might draw blood, they will usually try.

As a thought experiment — would you like me to publish to the world any details of your own personal relationship(s)? Probably not. (About which I know exactly nothing, by the way. And if I asked you — or anyone else! — questions about that, you'd be quite right to politely tell me that it was totally none of my business.)

I keep some things confidential for good reasons.

Some stuff can under some circumstances be dangerous. If someone suggested publishing a bunch of black magick spells that really worked, I'd not do that. :)

Censorship? No, responsibility.

When we were investigating the complex and intriguing Jesse Ames affair (see Avalon Newsletter #2 (http://projectavalon.net/Project_Avalon_Newsletter_2_23_November_2014.pdf) for details), we said not a word to the rest of the forum. Only AFTER it was all over did we publish what had transpired.

The same with the source of recent leaks from non-public areas of the forum. We know how that happened now... but (read any spy novel!) we have not revealed to the leaker that we know who they are. That discloses our capacity for investigation. (And no, we do not, cannot, and would not ever read PMs. That needs a special vBulletin plugin which is NOT installed. If anyone suggested that, I would veto it personally. That statement is on record for you to share with anyone.)

Re the Corey Goode affair, I've said almost nothing publicly in order not to pour more gas on the bushfire. That wouldn't be a helpful or smart thing to do. There's a very great deal I could say about Corey and his situation and background, all of which would be true and documented... but that doesn't mean that I should.

Meanwhile, 90% of the core details are available on Avalon, in one place or another, for anyone who wants to do a little research using the Advanced Search (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/search.php?search_type=1) function.

I have quite a few things which I've not even shared with my fellow mods. Some very sensitive material I have in my archives, I've never even shared with a single other human being. Why? Because some individuals could be put at very serious risk. And sometimes simply because I've been asked not to, and I keep my word. Ask anyone who knows me well. I'm good at keeping confidentiality when it's asked for or called for.

Publishing every tidbit you can, like the tabloid press, or a Hollywood gossip column, isn't always the right thing to do. In fact, usually it's not. Sometimes for very serious reasons, and at other times simply because it's just not kind.

For similar reasons, we filter the membership here carefully. Our firewall of membership applications isn't perfect, but it works pretty well. (Compare the atmosphere here with that on many other forums, and you'll see what I mean.) This is a private forum, not a public service. No one has a divine right to be here.

When the mods read applications, they ask themselves: "Would I want to sit and have coffee with this interesting person?"

That's not a joke: the 'coffee filter' is one of the criteria we consciously use. We want the members here to be valued and valuable friends... and if we'd not actually want to spend personal time with them if we could, we shouldn't be inviting them into the front room of our house.

Sometimes, we make mistakes. We invite someone in, and then realize we've misjudged them, and that they're actually not a very pleasant person to be with. If it's not just that they're having a bad day (and people sometimes do), we may ask them to leave.

And then sometimes, over time, people change... they become unpleasant or spiteful, due to factors only they may truly know. So I and the mods reserve the right to change our minds about anyone at any time.

Just because someone's been invited to a party, doesn't always mean that they can stay there all night. It depends how many fights they start. :)

Regarding other issues, you seem to misunderstand the position I have. It's one of quite high responsibility sometimes.

Every decision I make, I weigh against the greatest good. Sometimes I make mistakes with that, but usually I think I get it right. Even if you refuse to believe that, it's true.

To react by posting counters to every attempted smear elsewhere on the net only intensifies and prolongs them. It's what others WANT — to 'hook' me and the other mods into really very tiny issues.

Ironically, it was David Wilcock who really encouraged me personally, back in 2009 when he, Kerry and I were being heavily attacked in the second half of the year, to adopt this strategy:

That when people out there are trying to tar one with untruths, inventions and innuendo, as will ALWAYS happen to any 'celebrity' (even a minor one!), the thing to do is to ignore it all and just continue one's work — which should all the time speak for itself.

Here's the point. Have you noticed that the entire world is in great danger, and all our freedoms with it? Do you agree that that's what we should all be focusing on? And that we have powerful common enemies who would like to see us all disempowered, or even dead?

Yet, instead, many people out there play as small as humans possibly can be sometimes. There are a number of antagonists, not on this forum, who are being played like pawns on a chessboard, and they don't even know it: the whole idea is to create so much trivial noise that the important signals all get lost, or overlooked.

They may as well be working for our common enemies, even if no-one's paying them.

Many of the things you yourself post just add to the 'noise'. When have you recently written something publicly that's educational, inspiring, empowering, or which shares important insights or knowledge, that helps people grow and be bigger, better and wiser than they already are?

I'll leave you to reflect on that question. For God's sakes, ________ , you really are doing very little right now, with everything your attention is stuck on, to help the world be a better place. Please work on that to change it. We can all make a difference.

With my best wishes ~ Bill

[Carmody]

I'm known for my non sequiturs, and I have to work hard to keep my side subject injections from getting out of hand and derailing discussions.

I'm capable of handling multiple discussions at once, in a round about way.... and I tend to handle most communications exactly like that. But the same gift shows the path in alternative conditions and solutions in the realm of a given problem ....so it does have an upside.

Essentially, I'm saying that I'm hyper aware of the issues you raise, here.

[Carmody]

The older and wiser a person gets the more it looks like many of the people 'out there' tend to offer up to the world the 'angry soggy bottomed monkey pose', where they are angry and then run up to you/whomever, lie on the floor and adopt the leg lifted 'wipe my bottom and change my diaper' pose, all while screeching their discontent.

That almost everything they do concerning issues... is, at the core.... one derivation or another of this deeper reality. That this is the sort of fundamental mechanism that is seen to be at play, when one is out there, trying to help fix this world.

[ThePythonicCow]

The older and wiser a person gets the more it looks like many of the people 'out there' tend to offer up to the world the 'angry soggy bottomed monkey pose', where they are angry and then run up to you/whomever, lie on the floor and adopt the leg lifted 'wipe my bottom and change my diaper' pose, all while screeching their discontent.
Sometimes I am grateful that a poster did not honor the maxim that a picture is worth a thousand words :).

[RunningDeer]

:bump: Thanks, Bill.

And insightful question:

Many of the things you yourself post just add to the 'noise'. When have you recently written something publicly that's educational, inspiring, empowering, or which shares important insights or knowledge, that helps people grow and be bigger, better and wiser than they already are?

<3


-------

Hi, All:

Some of you may find this PM interesting — one I wrote today to someone who's been somewhat critical of how I and we appear to conduct ourselves on Avalon, from their point of view.

I thought it might be valuable to share, as some perspectives I've explained might not be apparent to everyone, and might be useful and appreciated.

I have of course retained full anonymity of the person I was writing to. Some of the original has been amended, and added to, for public sharing here.






Dear ________ ,

It seems your main complaint is that totally everything should be transparent and up for grabs for members to know and discuss. That's just not the case.

Re Christine, I'd kept that relationship totally quiet SPECIFICALLY IN ORDER TO PROTECT HER FROM ATTACKS AND SMEARS. Right from the beginning... ask her. That was none of the rest of the world's business, you see. The hyenas out often there lose no opportunity in attacking or trying to smear one's closest relatives or partners. Anything that might draw blood, they will usually try.

As a thought experiment — would you like me to publish to the world any details of your own personal relationship(s)? Probably not. (About which I know exactly nothing, by the way. And if I asked you — or anyone else! — questions about that, you'd be quite right to politely tell me that it was totally none of my business.)

I keep some things confidential for good reasons.

Some stuff can under some circumstances be dangerous. If someone suggested publishing a bunch of black magick spells that really worked, I'd not do that. :)

Censorship? No, responsibility.

When we were investigating the complex and intriguing Jesse Ames affair (see Avalon Newsletter #2 (http://projectavalon.net/Project_Avalon_Newsletter_2_23_November_2014.pdf) for details), we said not a word to the rest of the forum. Only AFTER it was all over did we publish what had transpired.

The same with the source of recent leaks from non-public areas of the forum. We know how that happened now... but (read any spy novel!) we have not revealed to the leaker that we know who they are. That discloses our capacity for investigation. (And no, we do not, cannot, and would not ever read PMs. That needs a special vBulletin plugin which is NOT installed. If anyone suggested that, I would veto it personally. That statement is on record for you to share with anyone.)

Re the Corey Goode affair, I've said almost nothing publicly in order not to pour more gas on the bushfire. That wouldn't be a helpful or smart thing to do. There's a very great deal I could say about Corey and his situation and background, all of which would be true and documented... but that doesn't mean that I should.

Meanwhile, 90% of the core details are available on Avalon, in one place or another, for anyone who wants to do a little research using the Advanced Search (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/search.php?search_type=1) function.

I have quite a few things which I've not even shared with my fellow mods. Some very sensitive material I have in my archives, I've never even shared with a single other human being. Why? Because some individuals could be put at very serious risk. And sometimes simply because I've been asked not to, and I keep my word. Ask anyone who knows me well. I'm good at keeping confidentiality when it's asked for or called for.

Publishing every tidbit you can, like the tabloid press, or a Hollywood gossip column, isn't always the right thing to do. In fact, usually it's not. Sometimes for very serious reasons, and at other times simply because it's just not kind.

For similar reasons, we filter the membership here carefully. Our firewall of membership applications isn't perfect, but it works pretty well. (Compare the atmosphere here with that on many other forums, and you'll see what I mean.) This is a private forum, not a public service. No one has a divine right to be here.

When the mods read applications, they ask themselves: "Would I want to sit and have coffee with this interesting person?"

That's not a joke: the 'coffee filter' is one of the criteria we consciously use. We want the members here to be valued and valuable friends... and if we'd not actually want to spend personal time with them if we could, we shouldn't be inviting them into the front room of our house.

Sometimes, we make mistakes. We invite someone in, and then realize we've misjudged them, and that they're actually not a very pleasant person to be with. If it's not just that they're having a bad day (and people sometimes do), we may ask them to leave.

And then sometimes, over time, people change... they become unpleasant or spiteful, due to factors only they may truly know. So I and the mods reserve the right to change our minds about anyone at any time.

Just because someone's been invited to a party, doesn't always mean that they can stay there all night. It depends how many fights they start. :)

Regarding other issues, you seem to misunderstand the position I have. It's one of quite high responsibility sometimes.

Every decision I make, I weigh against the greatest good. Sometimes I make mistakes with that, but usually I think I get it right. Even if you refuse to believe that, it's true.

To react by posting counters to every attempted smear elsewhere on the net only intensifies and prolongs them. It's what others WANT — to 'hook' me and the other mods into really very tiny issues.

Ironically, it was David Wilcock who really encouraged me personally, back in 2009 when he, Kerry and I were being heavily attacked in the second half of the year, to adopt this strategy:

That when people out there are trying to tar one with untruths, inventions and innuendo, as will ALWAYS happen to any 'celebrity' (even a minor one!), the thing to do is to ignore it all and just continue one's work — which should all the time speak for itself.

Here's the point. Have you noticed that the entire world is in great danger, and all our freedoms with it? Do you agree that that's what we should all be focusing on? And that we have powerful common enemies who would like to see us all disempowered, or even dead?

Yet, instead, many people out there play as small as humans possibly can be sometimes. There are a number of antagonists, not on this forum, who are being played like pawns on a chessboard, and they don't even know it: the whole idea is to create so much trivial noise that the important signals all get lost, or overlooked.

They may as well be working for our common enemies, even if no-one's paying them.

Many of the things you yourself post just add to the 'noise'. When have you recently written something publicly that's educational, inspiring, empowering, or which shares important insights or knowledge, that helps people grow and be bigger, better and wiser than they already are?

I'll leave you to reflect on that question. For God's sakes, ________ , you really are doing very little right now, with everything your attention is stuck on, to help the world be a better place. Please work on that to change it. We can all make a difference.

With my best wishes ~ Bill

[triquetra]

The goal here is certainly a noble one considering that forums discussing the kinds of matters discussed here are usually the same ones that have many types who either consciously or by being programmed to do so, contribute in ways that serve to keep the ratio very low.

However you can feel the desire to keep the ratio high here, much more so than elsewhere, which is what gives Avalon a fighting chance.

The idea had long been to compartmentalize the populace as a way of defusing the potential of the internet. The main prong was achieving the kind of digital status quo afforded by social media which few risk treading from. This is largely a show of many bandwagons all being pulled along in a line, and a great majority of the digitally-enabled world simply choosing which bandwagon to hop onto for a little while when they go online.

A secondary prong was meant for the alternative internet, which will hit closer to home - the idea here is to keep alternatively-minded internet-goers treading water by saturating alternative media streams. Eventually nobody knows what to believe - it becomes extremely difficult to distinguish good sources of information from bad sources when they are all presenting their information in a very similar manner.

But, as mentioned above by Another1,



- the people who seek peace and believe it's possible are usually soft spoken, polite and don't really push much. They offer.
In my opinion as a fellow traveler, this is a signal
- the people looking forward to it all falling apart are highly vocal, well versed in the art of subtle ridicule. They tell you what will be.
In my opinion as a fellow traveler, this is noise

This is a sign to look for. It is imperative that people gain the ability to temporarily entangle themselves with the others they interact with on the internet, and to be able to see into those people no matter what facades they may put up. Impostors are everywhere but no one will be able to do a good enough job of appearing to be the former type of individual to fool the most distinguishing / discerning individual.

If only some of the spiritual art/sciences that have been available online since even the 90s had been less of diamonds in the rough, or needles in a haystack. They provided exactly this kind of training. Now, when I (for example) take in small amounts of a person's information (their avatar, a few typed out words is more than enough), then torrents of information come into the mind about that individual which goes a long way towards an improved ability to decide if I am going to give much credence to what they are trying to communicate.

Even when information doesn't come back (barriers around the person, whether intentional or not), that fact in itself provides more information - perhaps a hint of caution - be careful about this person, they are not participating in the "human internet" handshake - the one where we readily reveal ourselves to each other at an energetic level so we can build trust even though we are interacting digitally and have never (and may never) interact in real life.

This "human internet" of seeing into other people who want to be seen into by others that have similar goals of benevolence towards one another is a crucial foundational element for the times ahead. Every time you build new connections along this alternative internet you are opening new doors to additional informational streams, not only in the senses you are used to now (ready to believe types words, take shared media more seriously, etc), but in the ways that will be increasingly apparent in the future (direct exchange of information over quantum channels between minds, etc.)

I had intended to join this forum specifically for two reasons - 1) to present a significant body of information relating to a vastly different branch in the timeline I believed would only be believable at first to members of the alternative internet community, leading to 2) facilitating the cooperation from within that community to start a totally new kind of real life project based around a suppressed form of mathematics / physics / technology that would provide the means to gain access to that 'escape' branch of the timeline which I am worried would never be available to us otherwise.

In an effort towards accomplishing 1), I realized that first impressions might be that as a new member seeking to quickly gain the attention of regular forum members, I was in fact part of the noise camp - someone who without building any kind of identity on Avalon was hoping to quickly gain attention and possibly get people to believe in something that was totally incorrect.

So I realized that perhaps the best approach would be to slow things down incredibly and achieve a more meditative approach to easing into it, and in so doing more clearly expose a signature of who the person behind the words really is.

With enough words, a 'vibe' should definitely emerge. While it is possible to be an impostor in this reality on many (often shocking once you find out) levels, this is not one of them. The 'vibe' you discover in reading the words of someone willing to expose themselves this way is almost certainly going to be authentic.

And so, if I were asked how to best keep the signal to noise ratio high on a forum with incredible potential like Avalon, I would say it is exactly this - go meta with others - use your ability to see into each other via such means to either just let the thread derail temporarily to ask a question on that point (if the other has nothing to worry about, they should gladly reply to it and get back on track), or do it as a private message. People will be afraid to do this sort of thing.

But this is exactly how things like festivals that strongly seek to set an alternative vibe as the status quo for a small amount of time (usually a weekend) succeed - people in those cases go with the intention to relax and generate positive vibes, and people struggling to do so will be quickly helped to do so while people unable to do so will be quickly asked to leave.

The same principle can just be applied to a forum community, where the focus is shifted from relaxation towards maximizing the exchange of the most critical elements of information that is as well-researched as possible.

If it can be done anywhere on the internet, it is probably Avalon. In this timeline, it's uncharted territory for the internet to be used so successfully. It's not as though Avalon has any kind of footsteps to follow in - if it can succeed in becoming an accurate alternative informational hub, it will be the site that can hopefully provide an example for others to follow instead.

We need this effort in the years 2015-2020 more than at any other time. The dark wane 2001-2008 is long over, in fact we are fully rebounded after 2009-2015. This is the right time to try.

[ulli]

I felt this last post to be incredibly important reading, so...:bump:

[Flash]

I had missed that great post. Thank you Ulli for bringing it to our attention.




The goal here is certainly a noble one considering that forums discussing the kinds of matters discussed here are usually the same ones that have many types who either consciously or by being programmed to do so, contribute in ways that serve to keep the ratio very low.

However you can feel the desire to keep the ratio high here, much more so than elsewhere, which is what gives Avalon a fighting chance.

The idea had long been to compartmentalize the populace as a way of defusing the potential of the internet. The main prong was achieving the kind of digital status quo afforded by social media which few risk treading from. This is largely a show of many bandwagons all being pulled along in a line, and a great majority of the digitally-enabled world simply choosing which bandwagon to hop onto for a little while when they go online.

A secondary prong was meant for the alternative internet, which will hit closer to home - the idea here is to keep alternatively-minded internet-goers treading water by saturating alternative media streams. Eventually nobody knows what to believe - it becomes extremely difficult to distinguish good sources of information from bad sources when they are all presenting their information in a very similar manner.

But, as mentioned above by Another1,



- the people who seek peace and believe it's possible are usually soft spoken, polite and don't really push much. They offer.
In my opinion as a fellow traveler, this is a signal
- the people looking forward to it all falling apart are highly vocal, well versed in the art of subtle ridicule. They tell you what will be.
In my opinion as a fellow traveler, this is noise

This is a sign to look for. It is imperative that people gain the ability to temporarily entangle themselves with the others they interact with on the internet, and to be able to see into those people no matter what facades they may put up. Impostors are everywhere but no one will be able to do a good enough job of appearing to be the former type of individual to fool the most distinguishing / discerning individual.

If only some of the spiritual art/sciences that have been available online since even the 90s had been less of diamonds in the rough, or needles in a haystack. They provided exactly this kind of training. Now, when I (for example) take in small amounts of a person's information (their avatar, a few typed out words is more than enough), then torrents of information come into the mind about that individual which goes a long way towards an improved ability to decide if I am going to give much credence to what they are trying to communicate.

Even when information doesn't come back (barriers around the person, whether intentional or not), that fact in itself provides more information - perhaps a hint of caution - be careful about this person, they are not participating in the "human internet" handshake - the one where we readily reveal ourselves to each other at an energetic level so we can build trust even though we are interacting digitally and have never (and may never) interact in real life.

This "human internet" of seeing into other people who want to be seen into by others that have similar goals of benevolence towards one another is a crucial foundational element for the times ahead. Every time you build new connections along this alternative internet you are opening new doors to additional informational streams, not only in the senses you are used to now (ready to believe types words, take shared media more seriously, etc), but in the ways that will be increasingly apparent in the future (direct exchange of information over quantum channels between minds, etc.)

I had intended to join this forum specifically for two reasons - 1) to present a significant body of information relating to a vastly different branch in the timeline I believed would only be believable at first to members of the alternative internet community, leading to 2) facilitating the cooperation from within that community to start a totally new kind of real life project based around a suppressed form of mathematics / physics / technology that would provide the means to gain access to that 'escape' branch of the timeline which I am worried would never be available to us otherwise.

In an effort towards accomplishing 1), I realized that first impressions might be that as a new member seeking to quickly gain the attention of regular forum members, I was in fact part of the noise camp - someone who without building any kind of identity on Avalon was hoping to quickly gain attention and possibly get people to believe in something that was totally incorrect.

So I realized that perhaps the best approach would be to slow things down incredibly and achieve a more meditative approach to easing into it, and in so doing more clearly expose a signature of who the person behind the words really is.

With enough words, a 'vibe' should definitely emerge. While it is possible to be an impostor in this reality on many (often shocking once you find out) levels, this is not one of them. The 'vibe' you discover in reading the words of someone willing to expose themselves this way is almost certainly going to be authentic.

And so, if I were asked how to best keep the signal to noise ratio high on a forum with incredible potential like Avalon, I would say it is exactly this - go meta with others - use your ability to see into each other via such means to either just let the thread derail temporarily to ask a question on that point (if the other has nothing to worry about, they should gladly reply to it and get back on track), or do it as a private message. People will be afraid to do this sort of thing.

But this is exactly how things like festivals that strongly seek to set an alternative vibe as the status quo for a small amount of time (usually a weekend) succeed - people in those cases go with the intention to relax and generate positive vibes, and people struggling to do so will be quickly helped to do so while people unable to do so will be quickly asked to leave.

The same principle can just be applied to a forum community, where the focus is shifted from relaxation towards maximizing the exchange of the most critical elements of information that is as well-researched as possible.

If it can be done anywhere on the internet, it is probably Avalon. In this timeline, it's uncharted territory for the internet to be used so successfully. It's not as though Avalon has any kind of footsteps to follow in - if it can succeed in becoming an accurate alternative informational hub, it will be the site that can hopefully provide an example for others to follow instead.

We need this effort in the years 2015-2020 more than at any other time. The dark wane 2001-2008 is long over, in fact we are fully rebounded after 2009-2015. This is the right time to try.

[Ultima Thule]

There is a problem in this signal-to-noise-ratio still. In general there is a LOT of threads that are started on a premiss of established fact and starting the discussion from there. However the case is more of a subjective feeling of established fact - when one searches the internet and reads enough times the same thing over again, one begins to feel it must be an established fact - without ever actually seeing any facts to back it up.

An example is this thread: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89530-Why-is-the-Smithsonian-hiding-history

I mean absolutely no harm to the op of that thread or the thread in itself, this is just an example. This just happened to be the thread to prompt me write this post. The thread begins with the premiss of Smithsonian hiding history. I would however see fit to have the discussion of "Is Smithsonian hiding history" first. In this example case the evidence is at best flimsy, but the discussion is started from a point of view of it being solid.

In Avalon it would be ideal to first really consider whether I have my facts right to present a case as granted? If not, what IS the case I CAN present, do I need to take a step back and start from there? At present we in here oftentimes help memes gather up momentum and the fact of there not being facts to begin with, is lost in noise.

UT

[Bill Ryan]

There is a problem in this signal-to-noise-ratio still. In general there is a LOT of threads that are started on a premiss of established fact and starting the discussion from there. However the case is more of a subjective feeling of established fact - when one searches the internet and reads enough times the same thing over again, one begins to feel it must be an established fact - without ever actually seeing any facts to back it up.

An example is this thread: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89530-Why-is-the-Smithsonian-hiding-history

I mean absolutely no harm to the op of that thread or the thread in itself, this is just an example. This just happened to be the thread to prompt me write this post. The thread begins with the premiss of Smithsonian hiding history. I would however see fit to have the discussion of "Is Smithsonian hiding history" first. In this example case the evidence is at best flimsy, but the discussion is started from a point of view of it being solid.

In Avalon it would be ideal to first really consider whether I have my facts right to present a case as granted? If not, what IS the case I CAN present, do I need to take a step back and start from there? At present we in here oftentimes help memes gather up momentum and the fact of there not being facts to begin with, is lost in noise.

UT

It's a good point... we do amend thread titles periodically, to better reflect the nature of the discussion. For instance, we added a question mark to Billy Meier: the Best UFO case EVER? (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?87665-Billy-Meier-the-Best-UFO-case-EVER) — so it was phrased as a question, rather than the flat statement initially posted. (Regarding the Smithsonian, though, it's been evident to me for years that they certainly are hiding things, but I do understand what you're saying!)

I do agree that many people post things without checking facts... which these days, is pretty easy to do with a small amount of work. More concerning to me is the 'noise' of threads (or posts) which don't always have a lot of weight to them sometimes, and are really more like Facebook comments. Like: "Hey everyone, this is what I woke up thinking this morning."

While that can have its place in any community — because not everything in life can be serious or heavyweight — that's sometimes an accidentally very effective way to drown out the sometimes highly significant discussions, on really important topics, that regularly come along.

Balance in all things... but you're quite right to raise the point here.

[Eram]

There is a problem in this signal-to-noise-ratio still. In general there is a LOT of threads that are started on a premiss of established fact and starting the discussion from there. However the case is more of a subjective feeling of established fact - when one searches the internet and reads enough times the same thing over again, one begins to feel it must be an established fact - without ever actually seeing any facts to back it up.

An example is this thread: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89530-Why-is-the-Smithsonian-hiding-history

I mean absolutely no harm to the op of that thread or the thread in itself, this is just an example. This just happened to be the thread to prompt me write this post. The thread begins with the premiss of Smithsonian hiding history. I would however see fit to have the discussion of "Is Smithsonian hiding history" first. In this example case the evidence is at best flimsy, but the discussion is started from a point of view of it being solid.

In Avalon it would be ideal to first really consider whether I have my facts right to present a case as granted? If not, what IS the case I CAN present, do I need to take a step back and start from there? At present we in here oftentimes help memes gather up momentum and the fact of there not being facts to begin with, is lost in noise.

UT

I fully agree Ultima Thule.

To elaborate on the issue that you raise:
It appears to me that We could all benefit from a study in assessing facts and establish truth.

To be a seeker for truth also entails a great responsibility that one takes upon him/her self.


In my mind, it requires a whole set of skills that we must train in order to make our ways through the many pitfalls in conspiracy land and it amazes me there doesn't seem to be much information around that discusses these very qualities and the training to get them sharpened.

I've been thinking about opening a thread on this subject for years now, since I think that it might be one of the more important issues that truth movement faces and yet, this movement seems to be somewhat blind to it.

I mean: Why is there no "How to find the truth 101" yet?
We should definitely make one. :P

[betoobig]

I like to say that this issue worry me a lot becouse i dont have a technical background either the lenguage skill to keep on the high quality discussions, which are disccus here. Even though i try sometimes i get fooled/scammed, or i do post something it is not relevant at the moment.
I just saw this thread and want to thank Avalon for being tolerant with me and to say sorry if any of my posts or threads didn't help to keep with the high quality Avalon has.
Dear Bill, you have been heard and i will do my best in order to keep up with you all.
I love this "place" and i love you all. I whish Avalon could come truelly real some day, as a gentle, open, wise comunity which offers sanctuary to awaken people, who knows through experience that awakening is a lonely path ( until you get here).
As usual, much love

[greybeard]

I suppose it is what it now, mainly, is, a discussion forum.
Opinions abound which is ok as long as it is realised that it is an opinion.
Educated guess if often close to the mark but not fact.
If a person expresses from personal experience or has done their own research then the quality shows.
Several mods, Paul, Herve, and others do come from a factual, in depth place and their posts are appreciated.

Avalon is still well ahead of most forums as far as I can tell.

Chris

C

[AriG]

Bill,

Have you ever considered expanding on the priority thread idea? What if you, as the site owner and leader here, were to serve as an 'editor' of sorts and create some kind of category system? Something along the lines of Analytical, Reactive, Somatic? rate the threads as Definitely pertinent to awakening/truth seeking, Moderately relevant and everything else? I am sure you could find better descriptions than what I pose, but it might be helpful in noise reduction to have someone with laser precision set some social conventions? I could see members eventually going with the flow and ultimately understanding where their thread fits with respect to how it better serves the purpose of the forum? Just a suggestion. :)

[onawah]

Some interesting discussion on the Billy Meier case at this link, where I've outlined some of what was discussed in the March 2016 roundtable with Simon Parkes, Alex Collier, Win Keech, etc.:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1420-Simon-Parkes-about-Mantis-Aliens-Reptiles-and-other-aliens.&p=1056446&viewfull=1#post1056446
and the following post,


There is a problem in this signal-to-noise-ratio still. In general there is a LOT of threads that are started on a premiss of established fact and starting the discussion from there. However the case is more of a subjective feeling of established fact - when one searches the internet and reads enough times the same thing over again, one begins to feel it must be an established fact - without ever actually seeing any facts to back it up.

An example is this thread: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89530-Why-is-the-Smithsonian-hiding-history

I mean absolutely no harm to the op of that thread or the thread in itself, this is just an example. This just happened to be the thread to prompt me write this post. The thread begins with the premiss of Smithsonian hiding history. I would however see fit to have the discussion of "Is Smithsonian hiding history" first. In this example case the evidence is at best flimsy, but the discussion is started from a point of view of it being solid.

In Avalon it would be ideal to first really consider whether I have my facts right to present a case as granted? If not, what IS the case I CAN present, do I need to take a step back and start from there? At present we in here oftentimes help memes gather up momentum and the fact of there not being facts to begin with, is lost in noise.

UT

It's a good point... we do amend thread titles periodically, to better reflect the nature of the discussion. For instance, we added a question mark to Billy Meier: the Best UFO case EVER? (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?87665-Billy-Meier-the-Best-UFO-case-EVER) — so it was phrased as a question, rather than the flat statement initially posted. (Regarding the Smithsonian, though, it's been evident to me for years that they certainly are hiding things, but I do understand what you're saying!)

I do agree that many people post things without checking facts... which these days, is pretty easy to do with a small amount of work. More concerning to me is the 'noise' of threads (or posts) which don't always have a lot of weight to them sometimes, and are really more like Facebook comments. Like: "Hey everyone, this is what I woke up thinking this morning."

While that can have its place in any community — because not everything in life can be serious or heavyweight — that's sometimes an accidentally very effective way to drown out the sometimes highly significant discussions, on really important topics, that regularly come along.

Balance in all things... but you're quite right to raise the point here.

[Bill Ryan]

Bill,

Have you ever considered expanding on the priority thread idea? What if you, as the site owner and leader here, were to serve as an 'editor' of sorts and create some kind of category system? Something along the lines of Analytical, Reactive, Somatic? rate the threads as Definitely pertinent to awakening/truth seeking, Moderately relevant and everything else? I am sure you could find better descriptions than what I pose, but it might be helpful in noise reduction to have someone with laser precision set some social conventions? I could see members eventually going with the flow and ultimately understanding where their thread fits with respect to how it better serves the purpose of the forum? Just a suggestion. :)

A few thoughts:

Members enthusiastically posting threads in not-quite-the-right place is occasionally a problem, yes. I'm almost every day moving new threads in General Discussion (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?3-General-Discussion) to more accurately descriptive sections.

Prioritizing threads is always likely to be subjective and therefore controversial. And retrospectively, really hard to do... there are 76,700 threads to work through!

As an example, the section called Books, Videos, Articles, etc. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?35-Books-Videos-Articles-etc.), which some well-meaning moderator created many years ago, is quite redundant and of almost no useful value as a description. But recategorizing (and moving) everything that's in there would be almost impossible.

All the music threads (and there are many of them) should probably be in Express Yourself (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?89-Express-Yourself). It feels like what's happening at the moment is that quite a lot of members are chatting idly (and sometimes noisily! :) ) to one another... as if everyone's kind of waiting for something to happen.

I've done that myself a couple of times recently: posted something that was really very fluffy and inconsequential, kind of as light relief from all the seriousness. (I do that privately with the other moderators, too, quite often.) But we have to remember the mission statement we all have here, and maintain our focus... most of the time.

It's a serious world, and these are critically serious times we live in. In our lifetime, we may even see the end of the human race as we know it. Joking around, and sharing music, is all totally fine, and is an integral part of age-old human tradition and culture in itself — but it's all a matter of balance.

And always being aware of the signal-to-noise ratio is all part of that. Although it's a very human, passionate and compassionate community, this is not an entertainment site: there are plenty other places for that.

[Carmody]

regarding priority threads:

I have a relative who worked in a place where they tried to organize the place with respect to things that were urgent. They put red stickers on the priority tasks.

Within a week or two, everything had priority stickers on it.

That an effectual forum with a future.... possibly (for your consideration)... is a group consensus (averaged) system of data sharing and support, not a vehicle of personal unfolding foisted on all others as a overlay in those given individual personal hopes and desires.

The very reason that 7 billion people cannot possibly live the life of tasting billionaire success in forms of excess that are both subtle and gross. The body may pressure us individually into such a direction of self as expression, but the world cannot handle even a hundredth of that desire ever coming true.

This sort of thing, which is steeped in our individualism... as individual 'mostly closed' (external feedback loops are limited) buckets of mind and organics in situ and in motion, tends to cause frictive intrusion on some level or another.

Ie, all 7 billion individual balloons cannot expand fully, in exploration of all, in a space that cannot accommodate it. The result in the given attempt is a more complex, varied and expanded noise level and far less societal cohesion (in some 'historical norm' ways).

Facebook is a natural and expected 'pressure release area' exploration of the given individual and overall group's deep desires in such direction.

[AriG]

And always being aware of the signal-to-noise ratio is all part of that. Although it's a very human, passionate and compassionate community, this is not an entertainment site: there are plenty other places for that.

This is about as subtle as a train wreck. My participation in a certain music thread was an attempt to validate an individual- to say, "you're important and I am going to pay attention to you". Whether intentional or not, PA does seem to draw quite a few very lonely people whose world view is already outside the standard societal mores, very possibly leaving this individual feeling very isolated. In this particular case, I sensed that if some participation and validation did not take place, that the psyche or even physical well being of the OP might be in jeopardy.

I do, however, understand and appreciate your pointing out the irony. The intent was pure, but I couldn't very well say, "hey, I am only posting here because you are having a Harry Kiniption fit over this and I am worried that you might implode".

So... how many other of my posts have you lying in wait, unaddressed , to point out my hypocrisy? LOL. :behindsofa: Believe me, my posts are neither world shattering or all that good. Unfortunately. Just meat in the room.

[Bill Ryan]

And always being aware of the signal-to-noise ratio is all part of that. Although it's a very human, passionate and compassionate community, this is not an entertainment site: there are plenty other places for that.

This is about as subtle as a train wreck.

Well, I'm pleased my point wasn't missed! :bigsmile:

All I was really saying was that it's all about balance. Signal to noise, expression to information, opinions to facts, support to requests for a hand if someone's having a bad day... or a bad few months.

My track record is pretty good in openly (behind the scenes as well) supporting members who are having a hard time. :heart: Sometimes, I lead the way in that. But I also hold an overview about what we're all doing here (on the forum as well as on Planet Earth), which is serious business.

Any warrior knows that it's important to balance the encouragement, the jokes, the levity, even the music :Music:, with the sometimes deadly business at hand. This is not being dark or discouraging: it's just telling it how it is. Every soldier knows how important jokes are, the value of teasing, lighter moments, picking out absurdities. Yet at any moment one's life might be in another's hands. Some here will have experienced that, for real.

Some members are suffering, very alone, and find it hard to reach out. For some, music threads will be alleviating and heart-warming: to others, they may appear superficial and shallow. That's not any kind of value judgement, it's an observation of the spectrum of human nature. Some people having a hard time want to switch off and tune out (or tune in). Others will value a serious conversation that's honest, straight, and dodges nothing.

So, between us, we have to provide for ALL of this, and somehow keep that multi-dimensional (or multi-directional) balance. That's the only point I'm making here. Never forget those who are silent.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Bill I support your work for many good reasons. I always will. This is your site.

What you say goes.

Still, the most successful thread on this forum is itself rather fluffy, and enjoyed by many.

You are too astute for me to point out the obvious.

With respect, have a great day.

[Calz]

I think you will find that most of the "noisy" members have also contributed to the "signal".

Human nature.

We have all been drawn here for the "signal" yet we are human ... all varieties and all that entails.

imho

[TargeT]

I think you will find that most of the "noisy" members have also contributed to the "signal".

Human nature.

We have all been drawn here for the "signal" yet we are human ... all varieties and all that entails.

imho


even the noise is important at a certain point, everything contains a signal, it's a matter of recognizing the pattern; that's all a "signal" is... a pattern we recognize.

However, we are easily overwhelmed, so filtration has to happen at some point.... it's just a mitigation for human nature, or our psyche's nature I suppose.

[Bill Ryan]

I think you will find that most of the "noisy" members have also contributed to the "signal".

Human nature.


Yes... since the dawn of time, humans have always played hard and worked hard. It's most important in every possible way that we all do both.

[kirolak]

Sorry that I missed your post, Bill. . . . a deep insight, to be more aware of the signal to noise ratio! (Not the easiest thing to do when one has to work, live in the 3-D daily grind, keep up the cliches & small talk with colleagues. . .) - thanks for pointing it out!

Sometimes the motions we go through (I should speak for myself) seem so pointless, & like Waiting for Godot. I polish up my grammar across a couple of languages, file my nails to the perfect shape to play the guitar, download scores, slot them neatly into plastic folders, read, browse the web, do yoga. . . . all the while semi-aware that it's all just vanity. I think we are only really awake in the face of danger or death. . . . maybe that's why we watch horror films & scare ourselves with disaster scenarios - to make us more alive in the moment.

[TargeT]

Sometimes the motions we go through (I should speak for myself) seem so pointless, & like Waiting for Godot. I polish up my grammar across a couple of languages, file my nails to the perfect shape to play the guitar, download scores, slot them neatly into plastic folders, read, browse the web, do yoga. . . . all the while semi-aware that it's all just vanity.

Women have it worse, you have so many extra "social pressures"... but it's worse than vanity, it's also wasting your time and mostly not benefiting "you" at all (obviously some of it is great for you,, intense yoga for example).

But we all silently agree to uphold these expectation & enforce them via our judgement of others when they fail to fall with in the "acceptable guidelines"... I used to think un-shaved legs (mine were exempt of course) were "gross", how hilarious is that? If all of this wasn't set in place to keep us divided and petty in thought then we certainly figured out a great way to screw ourselves over...


I think we are only really awake in the face of danger or death. . . . maybe that's why we watch horror films & scare ourselves with disaster scenarios - to make us more alive in the moment.

Our bodies are designed to function at peek capacity when in danger; much different than the lazy languid state we float in when safe & wanting for nothing... As a recovering adrenaline junkie I can assure you that there is NOTHING like the moment you narrowly avoid what you are sure would be a terrible situation.. your body is flooded with survival chemicals and everything is vibrant, your brain seems to work faster and it is, well... addicting.

We get a more minor reward set from other emotional states as well, I think this is why we can get so "caught up in the moment" on forum posting and leave logic/reason behind while riding a wave of emotion.

[kirolak]

BTW, I don't do yoga to look good :) far too late for that! I've done yoga since I could walk. . . .it's just one of my daily things, I hope I didn't give the impression that I do it to fit in. By vanity, I meant something other than physical appearance, more in line with "useless" or "pointless", like a "vain hope", & the nail filing is for purely utilitarian purposes (playing classical guitar to the wall):bigsmile:

[TargeT]

BTW, I don't do yoga to look good :) far too late for that!

Oh come now, age & looking good are not tied to each other by any means, I have seen plenty of terrible looking 22 year olds and am married to an extremely attractive 42 year old (which I'm reminded of every time we go out.. the guys in these Caribbean countries are tenacious as hell & also obvious as hell... its actually pretty funny).

I view each decade as like a new model, every model has it's pro's and con's.. for example the inexperience of youth is so frustrating to me I cannot spend very much time around the 20 something crowd (which is basically all of our volunteers).


By vanity, I meant something other than physical appearance, more in line with "useless" or "pointless", like a "vain hope", & the nail filing is for purely utilitarian purposes (playing classical guitar to the wall):bigsmile:


Full Definition of vanity
plural van·i·ties
1
: something that is vain, empty, or valueless

well, I suppose I could re-assure you, but it really depends on your view on "why we are here" if we are here to experience, then nothing you do is valueless, even the valueless has value as you can now recognize it as such and have experienced it.

If we aren't here to experience, but for some other reason; then I suppose those actions (and probably many others, anything that does not line up with that purpose) would seem vain. Are you missing your purpose, or just having an experience?

(is this noise, or a signal?)

[Bill Ryan]

.
I have to post this observation:

Just now in the first page of the New Posts list we have one thread about the ISS (International Space Station) being fake, TWO threads on the 'Event', one on Paul Ryan as the new president, another with 'Mermaids' in the title, one claiming that nuclear explosions never happened, and even "Do ETs exist?", which was asked seriously by an intelligent member, but which most members would agree is not the most intelligent question.

Like, all at once. I mean, do we have something aimed at us at the moment? http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/smilies/0103%20Big%20smile.gif

A remark to me literally a few minutes ago (best anonymous!) from one of the other mods:
such flooding with gibberish is one good way to ruin a good forum

[Enola]

I was thinking some of this seemed a bit shill-like, but didn't want to say anything.

[Bill Ryan]

I was thinking some of this seemed a bit shill-like, but didn't want to say anything.

Well, yes. I guess a really smart shiil can do a great job of cloaking themselves to appear (a) pretty dumb, (b) utterly well-meaning, and (c) very persistent and enthusiastic.

A person acting like that can do quite a lot of damage in a group. Whether they're a shill or not!

One mod wondered a minute ago if it was the full moon. My response was that we may all be being zapped from the International Space Station.

(That was a joke. :) )

The above is a general comment just to make a point. But it's a serious one. I'm not accusing anyone of being a shill. But I am accusing a few people of being rather dumber than usual... whether knowingly or not.

If we really are hit by a tsunami of rank silliness on the forum, we will (gently, kindly and respectfully) unsubscribe a few folks who are no longer in alignment with what we stand for. (In a few words: intelligent and open-minded, but well-informed and grounded, shared inquiry.)

We've only rarely done this before — as in the case of Solon (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52934-Sun-is-not-visible-outside-the-upper-Atmosphere&p=1059871&viewfull=1#post1059871), for example, posting obsessively about the 'invisible sun' — but we certainly may do that again if things get too extreme.

More good, clear signals, and less noise... please. :)

[Daozen]

The alt media is currently in the process of purging itself, and that is spilling over onto Avalon.

Bill, I agree in principle, but the "Event" thread spawned some interesting discussion, with 90 percent of members bringing up multiple points that discredited the people pushing that particular angle of the agenda. As far as ISS goes, there are many videos with evidence of CGI fakery...

I have noticed a lot of young people getting 'activated' recently. They go googling and find people like Keshe and Cobra, and then get sucked into those groups.
Whether we like it or not, having these topics on the front page gives us a chance to debunk them.

There are persistent myths of undersea dwellers, so mermaids may or may not be a viable topic, who knows?

I have been surprised -for years- at the apparent disinterest from Avalonians on threads about grassroots food technology, water filtration, energy etc. You would think that would be a major priority for a group of people that claim they want to change the world. But instead there are meandering round table discussions on pointless topics. On the other hand, you have built up one of the best healing/herbs/nutrition archives on the whole internet. So it's swings and roundabouts.

You can bring back more 'seriousness' to the forum by temporarily stickying 5-10 threads that you think represent your vision of Avalon, whatever that is... I think it's OK for the owners of a forum to curate their front page.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85338-Renaissance-in-Pictures

[DNA]

The alt media is currently in the process of purging itself, and that is spilling over onto Avalon.

Bill, I agree in principle, but the "Event" thread spawned some interesting discussion, with 90 percent of members bringing up multiple points that discredited the people pushing that particular angle of the agenda. As far as ISS goes, there are many videos with evidence of CGI fakery...


I think the OP of the "Event" page started off on the wrong foot, with the planet appearing in our solar system thing. I think Kerry Cassidy made some excellent points about the "Event" looking like it could be talking about the folks/people/aliens from Aldebaran. Mark Richards in the Kerry Cassidy interviews states according to Kerry that there appears to be an influx of these people in Africa right now, apparently they are moving to earth and being given some kind of citizen status in South Africa.
But as far as the ISIS thing goes, the objective of that thread is to state there are no satellites orbiting the earth.
To this I can personally state I've seen a satellite just in the past year.


About this time last year, I saw a classic 90 degree quick flying UFO in the South Phoenix area. After the craft departed zipping straight up into the sky a jet fighter flew over the area no more than a few minutes later, and then just a few minutes after that, I saw a bright light in sky, coming from the west and flying easterly until it passed right over the area I had seen the UFO. This bright light was obviously a satellite being scrambled in much the same manner as the jet aircraft was scrambled.


Also, let me state something on the mermaid thing.
Edgar Cayce stated such were created with the genetic experiments in Atlantis, much the same as Sasquatch.
And in George Knapp's "HUNT FOR THE SKINWALKER" it is stated in the Gorman Ranch area that there was a lake monster in the vicinity. A large serpent that the locals claimed was quite dangerous and had killed a few people.
Now this wouldn't be a big deal, except that the lake was a relatively new water reservoir made in the late 20's.
So, I will quickly connect the dots here. There couldn't be any hold over criptid from antiquity here, not in such a new lake. No, if this has any validity to it, this criptid would probably be crossing over from one of the regions much talked about portals. And if a portal can be accessed via a fresh water reservoir, I'm sure the vast oceans of the earth may have portals for things to cross over from another dimension's ocean into our world's oceans.

[Hervé]

About noisy noises without signals:
Information Anarchy Relief (https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2017/01/15/information-anarchy-relief/)

Posted on January 15, 2017 (https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2017/01/15/information-anarchy-relief/) by Mark C. Rathbun (https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/author/martyrathbun09/)

The post-fact era of information anarchy has caused many people to be overwhelmed with useless and misleading information. That is causing us collectively and individually to make more irrational and destructive decisions, e.g. see the posts Has Your Mind Become Infected (https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2016/07/17/has-your-mind-become-infected/), When Distraction Becomes Catastrophic, Lulz Rules (https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2016/12/29/lulz-rules/). Consequently, concentration and focus are becoming increasingly valuable faculties for maintaining a semblance of equanimity and increasing the effectiveness of personal time-management and productivity.

One means of sharpening focus that I have read about recently in the works of Nassim Taleb seems to work, at least on a personal basis it has. That is, training oneself to differentiate ‘noise’ from ‘signal.’ Signal is the message of a communication – the substance of what one is invited to consider. ‘Noise’ is the carrier wave it rides in on often jazzed up to jar your wits, have your emotion override your reason, or is just plain alarming distraction.

We most often see ‘noise’ in the form of appeals to emotion rather than to intellect or understanding. Emotion does and should play a role in the weight we give to data. But, when emotion is overemphasized and manipulated to override reason and interject deception: irrationality - and worse - results.

In the past year in the US we have seen an unprecedented level of appeals to passion, prejudice, and particularly to anger (by both sides of the political spectrum). It has served in lieu of important issue education and understanding to influence decision-making.

The noise to message ratio across established media and social media has risen to absurd levels in favor of emotional prejudice over intellect. Practice noticing the distinction between signal and noise and you might find that many ‘messages’ themselves are nothing more than ‘noise’.

More means of recognizing and rationally evaluating message before getting distracted in and unduly influenced by time-consuming and potentially destructive noise is covered in Nobel prize recipient Daniel Kahneman’s book Thinking, Fast and Slow.

One way is to learn to be wary of experts, particularly in the fields of politics and social sciences. Kahneman cites to clinical studies that evaluated the prediction reliability of the most commonly touted experts increasingly populating news and current events shows – those sitting on panels telling us how to view matters. Their long-term prediction success rates are well below 50% accurate when actually studied. In other words your chances of making correct decisions based on raw information – without relying on those ostensibly more qualified to make them for you – are better than if you waste a lot of time listening to those paid to tell you how to think. Taleb goes into this phenomenon in a lot more detail in his books as it pertains to economics and politics.

Kahneman provides more information that can serve as another handy index. That is, studies have shown that – no matter how counter-intuitive it may seem – often the more absolutism and unyielding certainty an expert asserts or exudes, the less likely his predictions will be accurate.

Another useful noise-detection tool is contained in Kahneman’s book where he covers the ‘availability cascade.’ Here is a short section where he defines the term and describes the pitfall which capitalizes on the human tendency to follow like sheep:
An availability cascade is a self-sustaining chain of events, which may start from media reports or a relatively minor event and lead up to public panic and large-scale government action. On some occasions, a media story about a risk catches the attention of a segment of the public, which becomes aroused and worried. This emotional reaction becomes a story in itself, prompting additional coverage in the media, which in turn produces greater concern and involvement. The cycle is sometimes sped along deliberately by “availability entrepreneurs”, individuals or organizations who work to ensure a continuous flow of worrying news. The danger is increasingly exaggerated as the media compete for attention-grabbing headlines. Scientists and others who try to dampen the increasing fear and revulsion attract little attention, most of it hostile:

[I]anyone who claims the danger is overstated is suspected of association with a “heinous cover-up.”
The issue becomes politically important because it is on everyone’s mind, and the response of the political system is guided by the intensity of public sentiment. The availability cascade has now reset priorities. Other risks, and other ways that resources could be applied for the public good, all have faded into the background.
It is not difficult to spot availability entrepreneurs if you apply some of the tips covered above. An increasing percentage of ‘news’ online and on television is reporting on the reactions to ‘news’ and then reactions to reactions, and reactions to reactions to reactions, and having those reactions evaluated by experts, etc. If one could teach oneself to spot such and to identify availability entrepreneurs, one could be spared a lot of time, anguish and potential grief. And one might even wind up being a little bit smarter and happier.
===================================================

Regarding this point:


... your chances of making correct decisions based on raw information – without relying on those ostensibly more qualified to make them for you – are better than if you waste a lot of time listening to those paid to tell you how to think.... check this other guy's opinion and conclusion:
Reply by the U.S. President to John Norvell, 1807

To your request of my opinion of the manner in which a newspaper should be conducted so as to be most useful, I should answer, 'by restraining it to true facts and sound principles only.'

Yet I fear such a paper would find few subscribers. It is a melancholy truth, that a suppression of the press could not more completely deprive the nation of its benefits, than is done by its abandoned prostitution to falsehood.

Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper.

Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle.

I will add that the man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them; inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. He who reads nothing will still learn the great facts, and the details are all false.

- Thomas Jefferson
... because the "... those paid to tell you how to think" are actually not appealing to any "thinking" abilities but to one's emotions or to what one "resonates" with without any actual "thinking" taking place... think about it :)

[Joe from the Carolinas]

I would strongly suggest anyone who has joined Project Avalon in the last 18 months, please read Bill's first post in this thread. It appears as though the signal to noise ratio needs a bit of a refresher.

[Bill Ryan]

I would strongly suggest anyone who has joined Project Avalon in the last 18 months, please read Bill's first post in this thread. It appears as though the signal to noise ratio needs a bit of a refresher.

Yes. This is NOT an admonishment — truly! — but really just a reminder.

The forum is huge now, with well over a million posts and getting on for 100,000 threads.

As I and others have said many times now, this really is a wonderful, in-depth, reference library on every subject one might think of. One of the very best on the net.

Many posts and threads over the last 8 years (since the present incarnation of the forum was launched, in April 2010) have been carefully and intelligently written, very well researched, and referenced with many interesting details. These gradually form more and more of the library for anyone to read and learn from.

(And, another reminder: we regularly get 10-15x as many guest non-members as we get registered members who are part of the community. Some of them check in with us every day, and have done so for years. That's all part of the service we provide.)

Why am I emphasizing this again?

It's a request to members, including some of the newer ones, not to treat the library like Facebook, Twitter, or the opportunity to make what might look a little like YouTube comments. Of course, it's fun to have a little banter, or a superficial side comment now and then. That makes it all human, and that's important.

But it's a matter of balance. If we have TOO much of that, then the valuable and important signals can get drowned out in all the noise.

It's really a matter of conscious awareness. Here's a kind of little mental checklist for anyone making a post. (Not a big one! It takes 3 seconds to think about. :) )


Is my post off-topic?
Is my post really rather trivial, and likely to be a distraction?
Have I really thought about whether I'm adding value here? (Note: a good joke, or a nice compliment to someone, sometimes IS adding value.)
Have I taken just a little care with my post to see if it reads well, is relevant, and makes sense? (Always read it again AFTER you've posted it. All posts are easy to edit and amend any time later.)

And am I just thinking aloud here, but haven't got anyone to talk to, so instead I'm just posting and hoping someone might read it?

Once more: it's a conscious balancing act. It's impossible to lay out a set of rules (and I've not done so!). It's more a matter of feel, sensitivity and awareness. This isn't a library of boring scientific journals, or dusty ancient tomes. But it's not Marvel Comics, either. :)

[RunningDeer]

Have I taken just a little care with my post to see if it reads well, is relevant, and makes sense? (Always read it again AFTER you've posted it. All posts are easy to edit and amend any time later.)



How to Edit/Update your Post
[more tips (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66104-How-to-Tips-with-Visuals-for-Links-Quotes-Images-etc.&p=766948&viewfull=1#post766948)]


http://paula.avalonlibrary.net/smilies/red-line.gif



https://i.imgur.com/6gRvp0w.jpg

[Bob]

[...]

I have noticed, almost without exception:
- the people who seek peace and believe it's possible are usually soft spoken, polite and don't really push much. They offer.
In my opinion as a fellow traveler, this is a signal
- the people looking forward to it all falling apart are highly vocal, well versed in the art of subtle ridicule. They tell you what will be.
In my opinion as a fellow traveler, this is noise


I am going to print that out, laminate it and put it up by my computer ...

[Foxie Loxie]

:bump: A big bump for what Bob quoted.....it is SO true & a good yardstick for us all to use in our interactions here on Avalon! :clapping:

[petra]

[...]

I have noticed, almost without exception:
- the people who seek peace and believe it's possible are usually soft spoken, polite and don't really push much. They offer.
In my opinion as a fellow traveler, this is a signal
- the people looking forward to it all falling apart are highly vocal, well versed in the art of subtle ridicule. They tell you what will be.
In my opinion as a fellow traveler, this is noise


I am going to print that out, laminate it and put it up by my computer ...

I'm looking forward to "new beginnings" I guess I'd call it, but not suffering and turmoil. Anyone who looks forward to suffering and turmoil has something wrong with them - and if I had my way - there wouldn't be any of them. Maybe I'm just an impatient murderer, but I can't help how mad it makes me =/

I can find peace and happiness sometimes, but true happiness won't ever exist in my mind while other people continue to suffer.

To me it just feels like we're in the midst of a mess! And yes... there's Garbage everywhere.

[Bill Ryan]

Hello, Everyone. :sun:

I figured I'd offer the following simple points here, though the topic isn't quite so much about signal-to-noise. But it is about standards.

My thoughts were really focused by looking at what's happening in so many places elsewhere on the net. Social media has become increasingly barbaric, a kind of dog-eat-dog jungle where the freedom of anonymity seems to unleash the shadow in many people.

Here's a screenshot of a discussion on the Voat forum, where Qanon followers have migrated after being banned from Reddit (for "posted threats and incitement of violence").

Caveats:


I didn't take the screenshot. I actually found it on Reddit.
I won't embed it here. It's too repugnant. Read it if your eyebrows are well-pinned to your forehead. :)
https://imgur.com/a/3CVgvp9#95DmLZy

It makes every single member we have look like a saint.

My point: what you see there is now the internet norm. Toxic mudfights like that are easy to find, everywhere. Look at the comments on any politically-oriented (or otherwise controversial) YouTube video.

We really are different here. Our standards are miles higher than anyone else's. New members in their application forms tell us this almost every day.

So this post is to acknowledge that, thank everyone reading this who really knows and understands that, and make the following reminders:


Please consciously preserve the high standards that we're all rightly proud of.
Please always allow other viewpoints and respect them if they're well-stated. Simply put: reply to others the way you'd like to be replied to yourself.
Please do NOT NOT NOT make 'jokes' that one might personally think are funny on the spur of the moment, but are likely to be upsetting or hurtful to others. This is a big problem sometimes.
Please always be mindful of the effect that you WANT to make when posting. Do you want to actually hurt someone? Score points? Be admired? Be understood? It matters.

***

Like one of the ancient Atlantean refugees, I still have a memory of early 2010 when the entire forum was closed, and then re-opened in a different format with all members being asked to re-apply. The community, every bit as large and active as this one, had been ripped in half — and sunk under the waves — by an epic, highly-charged disagreement that focused on just one major thread and then sucked in everyone. (The conflict was over metaphysical issues, not political. But similar emotions were invoked, including the almost uncontrollable strongly felt need to defend territory and attack others, sometimes way too strongly.)

Maybe a tiny handful of current members recall all this, as well. But for everyone else, it's a kind of misty historical legend. :) And some have no knowledge about it whatsoever.

But we DO have a precedent for cataclysm. It's happened before.

We're living in important and emotional times. Many things feel that they matter, a great deal, to many people — often rightly, too. But, as Richard Dolan counsels at the end of all his weekly radio broadcasts, be kind to one another. No matter how irritating another member here might seem when they've just countered or disagreed with one of your well-crafted, deeply-felt posts — if that person was literally your real-world neighbor, living in the next-door house, you'd probably like them very a great deal.

We're all good people here.

:flower:

[Flash]

Good Bill, point taken. But I would like to know what are the forum policies regarding trolling and blatantly lying and baiting. It seems sometimes to me that trolling and lying is diregarded for some members while others are readily admonished. This has become definitly unclear to me.

Plus, baiting and lying does not seem to be a good omen for the forum.

I personnally think that intentional lies on posts have to be corrected publically, mostly when they damage another member in any way, including its credibility, when it can lead to damage to others or can be detrimental to the forum.

As was done to a few prominent alt media members in the past why not now?

[Bill Ryan]

Good Bill, point taken. But I would like to know what are the forum policies regarding trolling and blatantly lying and baiting. It seems sometimes to me that trolling and lying is diregarded for some members while others are readily admonished. This has become definitly unclear to me.


It's not quite like that! The mods really do discuss all these things a LOT (believe me! :) ), and we ourselves don't always agree. That's not because we're being obstinate or difficult with one another — far from it — it's simply that the 'lines' are sometimes very unclear.

What feels like offensive trolling to one person feels much milder (or even, sometimes, nothing at all) for others. That's because we're all human and different.

We're not intentionally trying to be partial, ever. We do recognize that someone who's a longstanding member, whom we all respect, may just have a bad day or a bad week (or may feel very emotional about just one issue). That happens to us all, mods included. It's when someone is persistently a certain way that there's a different kind of problem.

As they say in a court of law, 'previous good character' really does count for something when the suspect is charged with a misdemeanor.

You and I both know about the recent instance of a member who did 'lie' in a post (i.e. what they said about themselves was untrue). But they were making a rhetorical point, not meaning what they wrote literally. The problem is, of course, that it's very likely to be misunderstood.

As above, what's a 'lie' to one person is a rhetorical device to another. The point, once more, is that we all need to be aware of the probable effect on others reading, and whether we really intend that or not.

[Bill Ryan]

Plus, baiting and lying does not seem to be a good omen for the forum.

I should also add: :)

Of course, this is why I wrote my major post above (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?7330-The-quality-of-Avalon-keeping-the-signal-to-noise-ratio-high&p=1251241&viewfull=1#post1251241).

[rodguy911]

For me it's one huge lust and search for truth. It's ever elusive. Disceting the Deep state and figuring out who did what to whom,how,when,and where
are seemingly endless searches one must take in todays' world where nothing is straight forward but everything couched in politcalese.
The differences between left and right grow larger but they come together in the deep state which is all criminal all the time.Figuring out the players
and who is who is almost a part time job. This site is far more humane and has many more intelligent posters than many of those one will find in searching endlessly
for truth.

[Spellbound]

I'd like to give this thread a bit of a bump, if I may. A little too much drama for my liking recently. As has been said previously, quality over quantity.

Dave - Toronto

[avid]

It’s got to some points I will not comment in case the ‘applecart’ is upset. Biting one’s tongue is good, gives you time to research, get other opinions, and level ‘reality’.

However, the very important posts concerning the health of humanity are so vital, thanks to Herve, Bob, Onawah, Paul, and so many others who are dedicated to healthy lives for ourselves and our animals.

This forum is so helpful, informative, rationalistic and grounded I am so grateful to be a part of it since its inception, watched its birthing from previous existencies with such positivity, and many years later we’re still here being supporting, kind and loving. :bearhug::bearhug::thumbsup:

[Bill Ryan]

:bump: :bump: :bump:

This may be becoming rather more of an issue at the moment.

:flower:

[Ewan]

Just a reminder....


Hi, Guys, please listen up for a moment.

This thread is inspired by one of the recent 'disclosure prediction' threads that turned out to be yet another deliberate hoax.

This is not a shot any any individual member here: but I strongly feel that Avalon members should have a responsibility NOT to forward fake or hokey predictions or 'channeled messages' - which is currently happening at a rate of one or more a week.

We don't need this kind of nonsense in a climate of the times that could not be more serious. There ARE very critical things happening quietly in the world, and the real signals get lost in all the 'noise'.

Be very sure that this is intended.

Folks, I ask you: don't needlessly add to the noise.

I always wanted Avalon to be about quality rather than quantity: for people to be able to come here quickly and find a digest of good information and intelligent discussion.

To re-post any junk on YouTube or Facebook that catches our eye, thinking we're doing the members a service, might be a well-intended error of judgment. Please always use your intelligence and discrimination.

I'm no friend or fan of ATS, but the mods there immediately deleted a thread about the recent "The Agency" 'prediction' of a 'radioactive satellite' over Munich on 20 October, that was really a forecast comet - not only because it was clearly false, but because the writer urged that it must 'go viral'.

They were quite correct to censor this cheap nonsense and stop it in its tracks. Our collective alternative knowledge base is being deliberately infected by information of zero or negative value in the same way as our computers (or bodies!) can become infected with viruses.

The presence of the zero-value add-ons decreases our capacity to function optimally. In this case, we're rendered less able to evaluate authentic information. This is one reason why I find myself increasingly unsympathetic to hoaxes, hoaxers and other forms of knowledge devaluation, and have made some of the decisions I've made in the last year.

This is not in any way 'censoring the truth movement': the real truth is far more incredible and unbelievable than any fiction.

I want to make the real truth easier to see by flitering out the distractions - some of which are deliberate, and some of which are just naive.

In 2005-6 I was closely involved in the 'Serpo story'. It was a really valuable experience. Much of that was nonsense (and it got more and more ridiculous as the 'disclosure' was sabotaged from inside): but some was certainly true. It was worth discussing at first until it just became way too crazy and was eventually completely derailed. By that time I had abandoned it.

That's when I learned the priceless lesson that the truth in the alternative community is much more about PR than about actual facts. PR wins every time. And the insiders also understand this very well. They're masters at playing their cards.

So, don't help them win their game. Really intelligent analysis is the answer. But that takes time, and care, and real research. The insiders count on you not to bother to do all that.

They financed the creation of Facebook, and there's a good reason for their smart investment. The 'noise' is WAY amplified there. That's why I have no Facebook page, and never use it.

Indirectly related to this: please don't re-post YouTube videos with no comment, or with a simple statement like "Hey, Guys, look at this". I and many others will never watch a video unless someone tells me why I should spend the time. Please be smart and caring enough to summarize in your own words what the added value is.

Added value is what it's all about. If you're NOT adding value, then just keep reading. Though some of them are hard to find, Avalon has over 6,000 threads which contain enough good material to keep us all busy for a very long time.

My best wishes to all - Bill

[Tigger]

-------------

Hi, Guys, please listen up for a moment.

This thread is inspired by one of the recent 'disclosure prediction' threads that turned out to be yet another deliberate hoax (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?7304-New-Prediction-Disclosure!-New-Date-Oct-29-2010!&p=63013&viewfull=1#post63013).

This is not a shot any any individual member here: but I strongly feel that Avalon members should have a responsibility NOT to forward fake or hokey predictions or 'channeled messages' - which is currently happening at a rate of one or more a week.

We don't need this kind of nonsense in a climate of the times that could not be more serious. There ARE very critical things happening quietly in the world, and the real signals get lost in all the 'noise'.

Be very sure that this is intended.

Folks, I ask you: don't needlessly add to the noise.

I always wanted Avalon to be about quality rather than quantity: for people to be able to come here quickly and find a digest of good information and intelligent discussion.

To re-post any junk on YouTube or Facebook that catches our eye, thinking we're doing the members a service, might be a well-intended error of judgment. Please always use your intelligence and discrimination.

I'm no friend or fan of ATS, but the mods there immediately deleted a thread about the recent "The Agency" 'prediction' of a 'radioactive satellite' over Munich on 20 October, that was really a forecast comet - not only because it was clearly false, but because the writer urged that it must 'go viral'.

They were quite correct to censor this cheap nonsense and stop it in its tracks. Our collective alternative knowledge base is being deliberately infected by information of zero or negative value in the same way as our computers (or bodies!) can become infected with viruses.

The presence of the zero-value add-ons decreases our capacity to function optimally. In this case, we're rendered less able to evaluate authentic information. This is one reason why I find myself increasingly unsympathetic to hoaxes, hoaxers and other forms of knowledge devaluation, and have made some of the decisions I've made in the last year.

This is not in any way 'censoring the truth movement': the real truth is far more incredible and unbelievable than any fiction.

I want to make the real truth easier to see by flitering out the distractions - some of which are deliberate, and some of which are just naive.

In 2005-6 I was closely involved in the 'Serpo story (http://serpo.org/final_update.php)'. It was a really valuable experience. Much of that was nonsense (and it got more and more ridiculous as the 'disclosure' was sabotaged from inside): but some was certainly true. It was worth discussing at first until it just became way too crazy and was eventually completely derailed. By that time I had abandoned it.

That's when I learned the priceless lesson that the truth in the alternative community is much more about PR than about actual facts. PR wins every time. And the insiders also understand this very well. They're masters at playing their cards.

So, don't help them win their game. Really intelligent analysis is the answer. But that takes time, and care, and real research. The insiders count on you not to bother to do all that.

They financed the creation of Facebook, and there's a good reason for their smart investment. The 'noise' is WAY amplified there. That's why I have no Facebook page, and never use it.

Indirectly related to this: please don't re-post YouTube videos with no comment, or with a simple statement like "Hey, Guys, look at this". I and many others will never watch a video unless someone tells me why I should spend the time. Please be smart and caring enough to summarize in your own words what the added value is.

Added value is what it's all about. If you're NOT adding value, then just keep reading. Though some of them are hard to find, Avalon has over 6,000 threads which contain enough good material to keep us all busy for a very long time.

My best wishes to all - Bill

Bumping this very important post once more.

There’s a LOT of information out there folks. There’s more ‘information’ than there ever was before; and you might agree that I’m saying that water is wet. However I also want to point out that it’s very easy to let our ego ‘drive the bus’.

Let’s be really careful and introspective for just one moment. There are a lot of major events happening around us; each of us has our own viewpoint. Each of us has heard things, seen things, and maybe even experienced things that have changed our world view. Offering our subjective point of view on this forum carries, in my view, a sense of responsibility and accountability.

I feel that our goal is not to create or re-create ‘belief system territories’, as Robert Monroe describes in his series of books. Our goal would be better described as ‘seeking out truth’, no matter how uncomfortable “truth” is for you and I.

I remember a scene in the television series “Captain James Cook” [ABC (Australia)], where the aforementioned captain asked his first officer on the Third Voyage:
CJC: “Mr Bligh, do you believe there is a North-west passage?”
BLIGH: “Well, I’m sure we’d all like to believe it...”
CJC: “- I said, do you believe it?”
BLIGH: “Through the ice? Across ten thousand miles of latitude...? My heart wants to believe it, Sir, but my mind won’t let me.”
CJC: “Thank you, Mister Bligh!”

In the end, of course, Mr. Bligh was right, contrary to the public opinion and the romanticism of the time. It took courage for Bligh to say those words to his captain in the film. He was, after all, admitting that he sorely wanted to believe something that he suspected was not purely logical.

Please be really careful with what we ascribe to, Avalonians. There is a LOT of ‘stuff’ going on. Plenty of people are influenced by what we report and uncover. We have a responsibility to look for what is real, not what we want to be real.

https://youtu.be/OHB7hU_r8mc

[Nenuphar]

Very happy to see this thread bumped. Thank you.

[Ewan]

And another bump.

:bump: -ity :bump: :bump:

[Tigger]

:bump:
It’s worth bumping this thread again at this critical time.

[Hughe]

https://www.similarweb.com/website/projectavalon.net/vs/abovetopsecret.com/#overview

PA's rank went up from 421,964 to 324,939.

[Tigger]

:bump:

BUMP!

I know I’ve bumped this thread before, and the motivation to bump it again stems from a week or so of trying to extract the essence of a discussion amid what seems like frivolous distractions in some threads, like this one:

Trump is NOT the answer (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94907-Trump-is-NOT-the-answer/page66)

It’s disappointing to read the arguments, often between only two people on a single thread, and there’s a noticeable uptick in videos ‘plonked’ into many thread discussions without synopsis or context, diluting the flow of discourse. It’s noise, and it often detracts from some otherwise very healthy discussions.

I get it. There’s way too much information out there, and, particularly when strong opinions are present, it’s often difficult to filter out the “food from the candy”, but the more we give in to our tendency to be right, or first, or popular, the less effective we are in enriching ourselves with valuable, workable information and ideas.

So please, more signal. Less noise. We’re winning, so relax. :flower: :grouphug:

[Sue (Ayt)]

It’s disappointing to read the arguments, often between only two people on a single thread,

I always wonder why the two parties going back and forth about some argument don't just take it to PM's.

[shaberon]

It’s disappointing to read the arguments, often between only two people on a single thread,

I always wonder why the two parties going back and forth about some argument don't just take it to PM's.



I personally am trying to flush the "other side" into the open.

This has so far only worked for a type of trolling, the type of person who has foregone conclusions about Q or the Jews or something, and they just stray off into vulgar behaviors and leave one way or another. It's like scraping barnacles.

That's not what I'm trying to achieve. There is supposed to be an argument, an intellectual rhetorical process, and the attempt is to carry it out as a public debate.

My guess is the arguments you are referring to must be more in the vein of trollish bickering.

I am not sure I have yet seen a real argument, any actual method of persuasion, take place. There are thousands of good points and valid pieces of information here. But then it is like playing Five Blind Men and an Elephant; each takes away some particular impression, and no type of consensus seems to come forward.

[Sue (Ayt)]

My guess is the arguments you are referring to must be more in the vein of trollish bickering.


Exactly, shaberon. I also enjoy well thought-out discussion/discourse/debate on a subject, with both sides presenting their facts and research.

But it gets really tedious when it devolves into childish bickering including outright name-calling or veiled personal affronts. And then it continues back and forth ad nauseam until various members report it to the mods. Sometimes it seems like a "last word" type of thing, like each party simply MUST get the last word in, and so it goes on and on.

PLEASE, if anyone feels so inclined to participate in something like this sort of thing, just take it to PM's. Just possibly, you might even wind up as friends. It happens.

[Ewan]

:bump:

buttermilk


-------------

Hi, Guys, please listen up for a moment.

This thread is inspired by one of the recent 'disclosure prediction' threads that turned out to be yet another deliberate hoax (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?7304-New-Prediction-Disclosure!-New-Date-Oct-29-2010!&p=63013&viewfull=1#post63013).

This is not a shot any any individual member here: but I strongly feel that Avalon members should have a responsibility NOT to forward fake or hokey predictions or 'channeled messages' - which is currently happening at a rate of one or more a week.

We don't need this kind of nonsense in a climate of the times that could not be more serious. There ARE very critical things happening quietly in the world, and the real signals get lost in all the 'noise'.

Be very sure that this is intended.

Folks, I ask you: don't needlessly add to the noise.

I always wanted Avalon to be about quality rather than quantity: for people to be able to come here quickly and find a digest of good information and intelligent discussion.

To re-post any junk on YouTube or Facebook that catches our eye, thinking we're doing the members a service, might be a well-intended error of judgment. Please always use your intelligence and discrimination.

I'm no friend or fan of ATS, but the mods there immediately deleted a thread about the recent "The Agency" 'prediction' of a 'radioactive satellite' over Munich on 20 October, that was really a forecast comet - not only because it was clearly false, but because the writer urged that it must 'go viral'.

They were quite correct to censor this cheap nonsense and stop it in its tracks. Our collective alternative knowledge base is being deliberately infected by information of zero or negative value in the same way as our computers (or bodies!) can become infected with viruses.

The presence of the zero-value add-ons decreases our capacity to function optimally. In this case, we're rendered less able to evaluate authentic information. This is one reason why I find myself increasingly unsympathetic to hoaxes, hoaxers and other forms of knowledge devaluation, and have made some of the decisions I've made in the last year.

This is not in any way 'censoring the truth movement': the real truth is far more incredible and unbelievable than any fiction.

I want to make the real truth easier to see by flitering out the distractions - some of which are deliberate, and some of which are just naive.

In 2005-6 I was closely involved in the 'Serpo story (http://serpo.org/final_update.php)'. It was a really valuable experience. Much of that was nonsense (and it got more and more ridiculous as the 'disclosure' was sabotaged from inside): but some was certainly true. It was worth discussing at first until it just became way too crazy and was eventually completely derailed. By that time I had abandoned it.

That's when I learned the priceless lesson that the truth in the alternative community is much more about PR than about actual facts. PR wins every time. And the insiders also understand this very well. They're masters at playing their cards.

So, don't help them win their game. Really intelligent analysis is the answer. But that takes time, and care, and real research. The insiders count on you not to bother to do all that.

They financed the creation of Facebook, and there's a good reason for their smart investment. The 'noise' is WAY amplified there. That's why I have no Facebook page, and never use it.

Indirectly related to this: please don't re-post YouTube videos with no comment, or with a simple statement like "Hey, Guys, look at this". I and many others will never watch a video unless someone tells me why I should spend the time. Please be smart and caring enough to summarize in your own words what the added value is.

Added value is what it's all about. If you're NOT adding value, then just keep reading. Though some of them are hard to find, Avalon has over 6,000 threads which contain enough good material to keep us all busy for a very long time.

My best wishes to all - Bill

[onawah]

And yet...
That message from Bill was posted in 2010.
Taking note especially of these words:
"Our collective alternative knowledge base is being deliberately infected by information of zero or negative value in the same way as our computers (or bodies!) can become infected with viruses.
The presence of the zero-value add-ons decreases our capacity to function optimally. In this case, we're rendered less able to evaluate authentic information. This is one reason why I find myself increasingly unsympathetic to hoaxes, hoaxers and other forms of knowledge devaluation, and have made some of the decisions I've made in the last year."
...One would think that by now the forum would no longer be host to gross disinformation from a grifter like Kim Goguen and her cohorts, who make the likes of Wilcock, Goode, Parkes, Ward, etc. look like amateurs in view of the many scams the former have created over the years.
Scams which have bilked countless gullible and well-meaning people out of millions of dollars by now, and thouands of hours of unpaid volunteer hours for phony projects that never came to anything.

Bill himself has admitted that Goguen is a preposterous liar and a fraud, and yet has permitted this thread (presently 109 pages long) to continue being featured on the forum since 2020:
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?112361-The-Global-Financial-System-Explained-Kim-Goguen-LifeForce-the-Assemblies
A thread which presents Goguen and cohorts as being legitmate sources of information.

Project Avalon is not run on democratic principles, but I would imagine that if a poll was taken and enough members took the time to inform themselves sufficiently (by reading this thread: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120756-Kim-Goguen-is-a-dangerous-fraud )
...so as to be able cast an educated vote, Bill would (hopefully) eliminate the offending thread or at the very least, move it to the "Channeled and Other Controversial Material" subforum.
But Bill is the final authority and has the final word as to what stays on the forum and what goes, and though I have asked repeatedly why this travesty continues, I have as yet seen no plausible explanation as to why he allows the thread in question to be presented as a legitimate source of information, or why even advertisments for the news subscription scams are allowed to be posted there, which I thought was against forum rules. (See: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?112361-The-Global-Financial-System-Explained-Kim-Goguen-LifeForce-the-Assemblies&p=1600216&viewfull=1#post1600216 )
He commented once that he didn't see the harm, which left me dumbfounded.
Bill, if you really do not not see the harm even now, please pay more attention!!!
I don't doubt for a moment that there is sufficient information to persuade you that great harm is being done if you read some of the more recent posts on the "Kim Goguen is a Dangerous Fraud" thread.
(That thread title being one which I think you yourself upgraded to attract more attention.)
And those members who do see the harm, please make your voices heard enough to help bring about a much needed change.
I can only surmise that the reason the grift continues to thrive here has something to do with monetary contributions to the forum and that is very disappointing to say the least.
I also find it very disappointing that so few other members seem to care that this forum, which is supposed to be about helping to bring the truth out in a world that is being lied to more and more every day, is itself being so consistently compromised by blatant grifters.
Thanks for your attention to this matter. `

:bump:

buttermilk


-------------

Hi, Guys, please listen up for a moment.

This thread is inspired by one of the recent 'disclosure prediction' threads that turned out to be yet another deliberate hoax (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?7304-New-Prediction-Disclosure!-New-Date-Oct-29-2010!&p=63013&viewfull=1#post63013).

This is not a shot any any individual member here: but I strongly feel that Avalon members should have a responsibility NOT to forward fake or hokey predictions or 'channeled messages' - which is currently happening at a rate of one or more a week.

We don't need this kind of nonsense in a climate of the times that could not be more serious. There ARE very critical things happening quietly in the world, and the real signals get lost in all the 'noise'.

Be very sure that this is intended.

Folks, I ask you: don't needlessly add to the noise.

I always wanted Avalon to be about quality rather than quantity: for people to be able to come here quickly and find a digest of good information and intelligent discussion.

To re-post any junk on YouTube or Facebook that catches our eye, thinking we're doing the members a service, might be a well-intended error of judgment. Please always use your intelligence and discrimination.

I'm no friend or fan of ATS, but the mods there immediately deleted a thread about the recent "The Agency" 'prediction' of a 'radioactive satellite' over Munich on 20 October, that was really a forecast comet - not only because it was clearly false, but because the writer urged that it must 'go viral'.

They were quite correct to censor this cheap nonsense and stop it in its tracks. Our collective alternative knowledge base is being deliberately infected by information of zero or negative value in the same way as our computers (or bodies!) can become infected with viruses.

The presence of the zero-value add-ons decreases our capacity to function optimally. In this case, we're rendered less able to evaluate authentic information. This is one reason why I find myself increasingly unsympathetic to hoaxes, hoaxers and other forms of knowledge devaluation, and have made some of the decisions I've made in the last year.

This is not in any way 'censoring the truth movement': the real truth is far more incredible and unbelievable than any fiction.

I want to make the real truth easier to see by flitering out the distractions - some of which are deliberate, and some of which are just naive.

In 2005-6 I was closely involved in the 'Serpo story (http://serpo.org/final_update.php)'. It was a really valuable experience. Much of that was nonsense (and it got more and more ridiculous as the 'disclosure' was sabotaged from inside): but some was certainly true. It was worth discussing at first until it just became way too crazy and was eventually completely derailed. By that time I had abandoned it.

That's when I learned the priceless lesson that the truth in the alternative community is much more about PR than about actual facts. PR wins every time. And the insiders also understand this very well. They're masters at playing their cards.

So, don't help them win their game. Really intelligent analysis is the answer. But that takes time, and care, and real research. The insiders count on you not to bother to do all that.

They financed the creation of Facebook, and there's a good reason for their smart investment. The 'noise' is WAY amplified there. That's why I have no Facebook page, and never use it.

Indirectly related to this: please don't re-post YouTube videos with no comment, or with a simple statement like "Hey, Guys, look at this". I and many others will never watch a video unless someone tells me why I should spend the time. Please be smart and caring enough to summarize in your own words what the added value is.

Added value is what it's all about. If you're NOT adding value, then just keep reading. Though some of them are hard to find, Avalon has over 6,000 threads which contain enough good material to keep us all busy for a very long time.

My best wishes to all - Bill

[arwen]

Onawah, I agree. For personal reasons, I am not on Avalon very much - just periodically for a day or so every now and then - so I miss many of the nuances and issues that happen here.

But on this one, even though I do not follow the Kim Goguen thread any more, just seeing it appear prominently every time I do come here, is a jarring, discordant note. I have nothing personal against anyone who is on that thread, but I do have an issue with seeing Kim Goguen being showcased as though she is legitimate.

There is a definite inconsistency here in the standards applied to other nasty con artists, and Kim Goguen.

I would support a poll for members to cast their view. I can only speculate why more members do not speak on this issue - perhaps they do not want to hurt the feelings of those promoting the thread, or perhaps they just do not have the interest or time to comment on it, not seeing it as important. I don't know. A poll would help, I agree.

And I speak as one who briefly followed the Kim Goguen thread for a while, as it was very attractive and feel good but for me the red flags popped up quite soon and I realized it was just another grift. And a nasty one at that.

[wondering]

Onawah, Have you ever seriously considered putting this thread, or it's contributors, on your ignore lisit and calling it a day? I don't think any one of us is the final judge of truth for anyone else. If others choose to read and follow this topic, why are you so intent, even desperate, to stop them? Turn your outrage to something else that will make a difference...it's clearly not going to happen here with this thread.

[arwen]

Onawah, Have you ever seriously considered putting this thread, or it's contributors, on your ignore lisit and calling it a day? I don't think any one of us is the final judge of truth for anyone else. If others choose to read and follow this topic, why are you so intent, even desperate, to stop them? Turn your outrage to something else that will make a difference...it's clearly not going to happen here with this thread.

For me, it is the inconsistency that is the issue. Absolutely no-one is the final judge on truth for anyone else, fully agreed. However, on that premise, Avalon should then open its doors also to supporters of Corey Goode, Simon Parkes, Charlie Ward, and any number of others out there, and also allow them to promote their work.

That is the problem here as I see it.

[Bill Ryan]

Onawah, Have you ever seriously considered putting this thread, or it's contributors, on your ignore lisit and calling it a day? I don't think any one of us is the final judge of truth for anyone else. If others choose to read and follow this topic, why are you so intent, even desperate, to stop them? Turn your outrage to something else that will make a difference...it's clearly not going to happen here with this thread.

For me, it is the inconsistency that is the issue. Absolutely no-one is the final judge on truth for anyone else, fully agreed. However, on that premise, Avalon should then open its doors also to supporters of Corey Goode, Simon Parkes, Charlie Ward, and any number of others out there, and also allow them to promote their work.

That is the problem here as I see it.Yes, it's an anomaly. The mods discuss it quite a lot. :)

My own position is that it's a pretty minor issue, and it'll all take care of itself in due course. It's so self-evident not only to me but to a LOT of people now that Kim Goguen is a sociopathic fraud, that pretty soon the truth will be widely accepted on the net, just as it is with Corey Goode and a number of others.

It's a little frustrating sometimes — and one day my dear friend Gwin Ru, a most highly intelligent, honest, caring and principled man, will see the light! :heart:) But it's far from the top of the issues that I care about in the world, which almost all Avalon members understand well and very much agree about.

For me, that's far more important. The Kim G thing is rather a tiny immaterial sideshow in comparison.

~~~

The one main thing I still feel IS a problem on the forum (as some may gather from my occasional added-in mods' posts) is the proliferation of videos, some of which don't actually seem to be watched by the posters, and the frequently lack of any personal comment to accompany the video itself.

As I've said many many MANY times now, just dumbly copying a video title (which is all too often poor, misleading or inaccurate) is NOT enough to help a reader decide whether to spend yet another half hour or hour invested in something of little value.

It's lazy, it's a problem, it often comes from posters who wrongly believe that quantity = quality (it does not), and I think that's what may be our biggest issue right now.

:flower:

[Valknut3301]

Well spoken, Bill, and a good reminder.

I personally have a sensitive b.s. meter, or I would like to think I do at least, so I tend to filter out a lot of what I read, both here and everywhere else on the interwebs. There seems to be a fair amount of nonsense on these forums, unfortunately, but this is true everywhere you look, even when you look within. The brainwashing runs deep and, to use Bill's own analogy, it's infectious.

There's a lot of emphasis on intelligence in our culture, which I would define as knowing a lot of useless details, but not enough is made of discernment, which I think is much more important.

That said, I've been wondering something for a while and this seems like the best place to mention it. I wonder how many members of the Avalon forum are professional misinformation artists, employed by the powers that (think they) be, here to muddy the waters and confuse the topics discussed. Of course, there's no way of knowing or finding out, it's just something I think about.
No platform of free discussion is immune to these vultures, not even these most respectable and well tended forums on which we now stand. Hell, for all you (the person reading this) knows, I'm nothing more than a bot, programmed to divert and confuse the issues at hand, and likewise you (anyone and everyone else with a username) might be a bot designed to respond in a manner I find pleasing.

I'll just keep practicing my discernment and try to keep from falling into the trap of belief. Because I would rather KNOW a thing than BELIEVE it.

[arwen]

While I am here, if I might make one possible compromise suggestion for a solution - the Kim Goguen thread is currently housed under "Global Financial News" - and for me, that is definitely misplaced. It is not real financial news, it is a mix of various things.

Looking at the various people, aside from the obvious grifters, other less controversial and more respected people such as Clif High and Jay Weidner are housed along with Corey Goode, Wilcock etc in the "Personalities in the alternative media" forum. At the very least, Kim Goguen is definitely one of the many "personalities in the alternative media". Which include the good, the bad and the ugly.

Perhaps that may be a better place for the thread?

Post update: Sorry I posted this before I saw Bill's reply above. Understood. (And by the way, I really like Gwin Ru too.) :flower:

[wondering]

Many years ago I questioned why there continued to be posts about Corey Good when he had been revealed, so to speak. Someone replied the posts would serve to warn off others about the deceit to be found there. I think the same thing applies here, so that's not a bad thing, if true.

[onawah]

That would be the case if the pro-Goguen thread contained any information revealing what huge scams are being proliferated under Goguen's name, but that is not the case.
Whlle the thread that I started gets very little attention from members by comparison, so non-members are not likely to even notice it.
It's all presented on the pro-Goguen thread as legitimate information, with the Avalon fans of Goguen buying it all as legitimate, so non-members will likely be concluding the same.
It bothers me so much because I have spent so many years (since 2010, and I was a member of the original forum as well) and so much time on this forum ( I was one of the "purple ribbon" frequent posters), and feeling like I was making a positive contribution in getting the truth out, in helping others (non-members especially) to develop more discernment and wake up to what is really going on in the world.
I no longer feel that way about Avalon and am in the process of retiring now because this case has not been following the same pattern as the other grifters who have been a focus here on the forum, rather, it is serving as a platform for a proven scammer.
It was quite easy in those other cases to see the information was false once sufficient evidence had been presented.
Like Arwen, I seldom post here anymore because so much of the pro-Goguen info is being presented here regularly now and I would not be surprised if a lot of non-members are being caught in Goguen's net because of Gwin Ru and the pro-Goguen team here on the forum.
That is very sad because the victims have been grifted out of so much money and so much volunteer time, all to no end.
If, as Bill claims, Gwin Ru is such a good friend, I am surprised that Bill would not be a lot more concerned about the mental health of a friend being duped by such a ridiculously obvious scammer, and would not be more actively rectifying that situation.
But I just don't buy that, and I think there is something else going on.
So that now the integrity of the whole forum is compromised, and it is no longer the reliable resource it once was as a result.
And that's a shame because there aren't nearly enough resources for getting the truth out, and the lies continue to multiply.


Many years ago I questioned why there continued to be posts about Corey Good when he had been revealed, so to speak. Someone replied the posts would serve to warn off others about the deceit to be found there. I think the same thing applies here, so that's not a bad thing, if true.

[onawah]

Wondering, have you ever really looked at some of the posts on the "Kim Goguen is a Dangerous Fraud" thread, to see just how absurd her many claims have been over the years, such as this one: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?120756-Kim-Goguen-is-a-dangerous-fraud&p=1600697&viewfull=1#post1600697
It's been made abundantly clear again and again that her claims are not only ridiculous, but dangerously misleading, and if you knew someone who was being victimized by her many scams, wouldn't you want to wake them up so they wouldn't be further deluded and harmed?
Some of her victims have gone bankrupt, experienced family breakups and serious mental and emotional breakdowns because they have invested so much time and energy into her fraudulent schemes.
There hasn't been as much direct testimony as yet from the victims, most of whom are probably too humiliated to want to come forward, and would probably prefer to put it all behind them.
That is changing now, thankfully.
But it's clear these scammers on Goguen's team have caused a great deal of direct harm to a lot of people.
That's what concerns me most.
I don't find it so easy to be indifferent to the suffering of so many well-meaning but gullible people.

Onawah, Have you ever seriously considered putting this thread, or it's contributors, on your ignore lisit and calling it a day? I don't think any one of us is the final judge of truth for anyone else. If others choose to read and follow this topic, why are you so intent, even desperate, to stop them? Turn your outrage to something else that will make a difference...it's clearly not going to happen here with this thread.

[pyrangello]

Maybe you should title a sub forum topic as the " POSSIBLY FORUM" MY grandfather told a joke to Jackie gleason one time in New York. He went up to Mr Gleason and asked him if he could tell him a joke while Mr Gleason was sitting in a booth at an upscale restaurant. He said sure.

My grandfather said there was a teacher in a class one day that suggested a word and wanted her students to put that word in a sentence. So the teacher said the word "banana". Johnny raised his hand and said "teacher,teacher I have a sentence". The teacher said "yes Johnny ". Johnny said "I have a sentence for your word, today my mom made me a lunch and I brought it to school and in my lunch bag was a banana". The teacher said "very good Johnny, that is correct." Then the teacher said let's try another word "how about the word POSSIBLY ? Can anybody use that word in a sentence?." Then little Amy raised her hand and said "teacher, teacher , I can use that word". The teacher said " yes amy" Amy said " ok teacher here's my sentence, yesterday I was at home and my older sister and her boyfriend went into the piano room and closed the door behind them , so I went up to the door and looked thru the keyhole to see what they were doing. I watched my sister and her boyfriend walk behind the piano , then as I kept looking thru the keyhole I saw my sister's underwear hit the floor and then her boyfriends underwear fell to the floor to and teacher POSSIBLY they were going to shxt on the piano"!

So there you have it the POSSIBLY thread.

Somebody said to me one time " LAUGH AND THE WORLD LAUGHS WITH YOU, CRY ENOUGH AND YOUR CRYING ALONE". b.s. threads have a tendency to go away by themselves and sometimes witha little nudge.

Onaway your very highly respected here and all you have stated is duly noted on my end especially when there are real damage done. My 2 cents

[onawah]

I wish that were the case with the pro-Goguen thread, but it's been on the forum for 4 years now, with 109 pages so far, and it's been getting enough nudges, with no lack of credible proof, so that it should have been gone already.




Somebody said to me one time " LAUGH AND THE WORLD LAUGHS WITH YOU, CRY ENOUGH AND YOUR CRYING ALONE". b.s. threads have a tendency to go away by themselves and sometimes witha little nudge.

[Ewan]

with the Avalon fans of Goguen buying it all as legitimate,


Not a huge amount from what I can see, most posts have three or four 'thanks'; which would suggest PA as a whole pays scant attention to it.
I do agree it is in the wrong sub-forum/section. Personally I would have it in the known hoaxes thread. :)

I feel there are much bigger problems, namely, as Bill perhaps suggested, is posting videos the poster has not even watched themselves!
What the heck would be the point in that, other than perhaps being the most prolific poster - or seeking the highest 'thanks' count?
Furthermore, if you have taken the time to watch it - surely you have the time to add a comment as to why others might also be interested?

Edit: Those you's are generic, not aimed at the reader.

[onawah]

The problem isn't how many members are watching and thanking the posts on the pro-Goguen thread, but the number of non-members who are watching it ( it's got close to half a million views) and being taken in by the scams, and just the fact that it's being presented here as legitimate information, and largely uncontested.
Just to be clear, I don't believe Bill's complaint about posting youtube videos without watching them first or commenting was addressed to me as I don't make a habit of doing that.
Though in certain cases, such as with the SuspiciousObservers posts, when the source is so well known that no explanation or comment is really necessary, I don't comment.
I was not bragging about being a prolific member of the forum, but making a point about why I am retiring, which is mainly due to Avalon continuing to provide a venue for the scammer Goguen.
I certainly agree with this! :"I do agree it is in the wrong sub-forum/section. Personally I would have it in the known hoaxes thread. " :nod:



with the Avalon fans of Goguen buying it all as legitimate,


Not a huge amount from what I can see, most posts have three or four 'thanks'; which would suggest PA as a whole pays scant attention to it.
I do agree it is in the wrong sub-forum/section. Personally I would have it in the known hoaxes thread. :)

I feel there are much bigger problems, namely, as Bill perhaps suggested, is posting videos the poster has not even watched themselves!
What the heck would be the point in that, other than perhaps being the most prolific poster - or seeking the highest 'thanks' count?
Furthermore, if you have taken the time to watch it - surely you have the time to add a comment as to why others might also be interested?

[norman]

If pet niggles are the topic.

Here's my pet niggle. I hate the fact that so many thread titles are stupid (and pretty much useless ) thread titles that in many cases only came into being because they were a title of a naff video someone decided to start a new thread with.

Almost always, the thread title alienates me from the possibility of getting fruitfully engaged in what may well actually be a very important topic ( hidden in there somewhere ), but it's called something silly or much too narrowly descriptive.

[Bluegreen]

I was curious, and clicked back to find one contributor posting a 2-hour video after it went up to youtube "5 minutes ago". The next video I clicked on from this contributor featured a 24-year-old Richard Dolan. I thought, Oh. I see.

Another time, I was going to post, but didn't, a video by a well known researcher, because by some glitch, there was no sound. The next day another contributor posted it; I clicked on it and thought, Oh. I see.

[Sue (Ayt)]

Whlle the thread that I started gets very little attention from members by comparison, so non-members are not likely to even notice it.
It's all presented on the pro-Goguen thread as legitimate information, with the Avalon fans of Goguen buying it all as legitimate, so non-members will likely be concluding the same.


The views on the KG thread, as with other threads, do not necessarily mean that folks view it as legitimate info. Views may sometimes be for entertainment value, curiosity, searching for clues in KG's rhetoric, trying to figure out who or what is pushing the info, or just for the pure flabbergast-factor of KG's highly audacious claims.

I also feel that the KG thread might be better suited in the personalities section of the forum, for now.

A pet peeve I have is when threads on a topic need to be split into two factions, like the pro and con KG threads as well as several others. This often happens when a couple of highly opinionated folks refuse to allow pro or con discussion on a thread that they feel strongly about. If all sides were able to be politely and calmly discussed on one thread, people could more easily be presented with both sides, and perhaps reach their own conclusions more readily.

But overall, I do trust that eventually karma does catch up, and the hoaxers and scammers do get taken down. Sometimes it is even hard to watch.

[onawah]

I doubt many are going to understand what you are really saying in that post any better than I do, Bluegreen.
Would you care to elaborate?

I was curious, and clicked back to find one contributor posting a 2-hour video after it went up to youtube "5 minutes ago". The next video I clicked on from this contributor featured a 24-year-old Richard Dolan. I thought, Oh. I see.

Another time, I was going to post, but didn't, a video by a well known researcher, because by some glitch, there was no sound. The next day another contributor posted it; I clicked on it and thought, Oh. I see.

[Sue (Ayt)]

I doubt many are going to understand what you are really saying in that post any better than I do, Bluegreen.
Would you care to elaborate?

I was curious, and clicked back to find one contributor posting a 2-hour video after it went up to youtube "5 minutes ago". The next video I clicked on from this contributor featured a 24-year-old Richard Dolan. I thought, Oh. I see.

Another time, I was going to post, but didn't, a video by a well known researcher, because by some glitch, there was no sound. The next day another contributor posted it; I clicked on it and thought, Oh. I see.

Guess we posted at the same time, Onawah. Hope you don't miss my post which was the last one on the previous page.
:waving:

[onawah]

I saw your post, Sue, but I don't understand what it has to do with Bluegreen's cryptic post.

[onawah]

Sometimes the cognitive dissonence is so great and the aggravation factor so high that there is very little chance for polite or calm discussion.




Whlle the thread that I started gets very little attention from members by comparison, so non-members are not likely to even notice it.
It's all presented on the pro-Goguen thread as legitimate information, with the Avalon fans of Goguen buying it all as legitimate, so non-members will likely be concluding the same.


The views on the KG thread, as with other threads, do not necessarily mean that folks view it as legitimate info. Views may sometimes be for entertainment value, curiosity, searching for clues in KG's rhetoric, trying to figure out who or what is pushing the info, or just for the pure flabbergast-factor of KG's highly audacious claims.

I also feel that the KG thread might be better suited in the personalities section of the forum, for now.

A pet peeve I have is when threads on a topic need to be split into two factions, like the pro and con KG threads as well as several others. This often happens when a couple of highly opinionated folks refuse to allow pro or con discussion on a thread that they feel strongly about. If all sides were able to be politely and calmly discussed on one thread, people could more easily be presented with both sides, and perhaps reach their own conclusions more readily.

But overall, I do trust that eventually karma does catch up, and the hoaxers and scammers do get taken down. Sometimes it is even hard to watch.

[Bluegreen]

I doubt many are going to understand what you are really saying in that post any better than I do, Bluegreen.
Would you care to elaborate?

I was curious, and clicked back to find one contributor posting a 2-hour video after it went up to youtube "5 minutes ago". The next video I clicked on from this contributor featured a 24-year-old Richard Dolan. I thought, Oh. I see.

Another time, I was going to post, but didn't, a video by a well known researcher, because by some glitch, there was no sound. The next day another contributor posted it; I clicked on it and thought, Oh. I see.

No. :) . . .

[Sue (Ayt)]

Sometimes the cognitive dissonence is so great and the aggravation factor so high that there is very little chance for polite or calm discussion.



Ok... well, I think I will just go right over to the KG thread right now, and ask Gwin Ru (and others there) why he feels there is truth in the thread. Politely.
:idea:

[Ewan]

.... Just to be clear, I don't believe Bill's complaint about posting youtube videos without watching them first or commenting was addressed to me as I don't make a habit of doing that.
Though in certain cases, such as with the SuspiciousObservers posts, when the source is so well known that no explanation or comment is really necessary, I don't comment.
I was not bragging about being a prolific member of the forum, .....


I'm fairly sure Bill's comment was not addressed to you, any more than any of my points were.
I certainly was not thinking of you as I made my closing comments either.

Rest easy. :)

[onawah]

National Slam the Scam Day 2/27/24
See: https://www.facebook.com/oigssa
The Office of the Inspector General and the FBI's scambusting apparatus apparently hasn't extended itself yet to scammers like Kim Goguen, but hopefully that day will come soon.

[Tintin]

Interim comment:

Somewhat ironically, it's getting quite 'noisy' in here :flower: :)