This is REALLY interesting - 5 Spiritual Benefits Of Using Ayahuasca [Archive]

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linksplatinum

19th August 2014, 03:35

Link~~~~> http://in5d.com/5-spiritual-benefits-ayahuasca.html

Disclaimers: Free Spirit does not advocate illegal activities. Check the legal status of Ayahausca in your country. Some pharmaceutical products can cause serious and sometimes fatal counterindications when used with Ayahuasca. Do your research! Readers are fully responsible for their decisions/actions at all times and Free Spirit / Keysto Immortality.Com is not liable for the consequences of your own decisions.

by Free Spirit
http://in5d.com/images/ayahuasca-.jpg
Ayahuasca is a shamanic medicine originating from the Amazon Rainforest. Ayahuasca has a powerful effect on one's spiritual processes and can facilitate healing, awakening, understanding and the development of spiritual wisdom when used in conjunction with spiritual practice and a strong healthy life. Those who are strong enough to be able to handle the intensity of the Ayahuasca medicine can find that their spiritual processes are accelerated to the point where a grounded state of Ayahuasca is a shamanic medicine originating from the Amazon Rainforest. Ayahuasca has a powerful effect on one's spiritual processes and can facilitate healing, awakening, understanding and the development of spiritual wisdom when used in conjunction with spiritual practice and a strong healthy life. Those who are strong enough to be able to handle the intensity of the Ayahuasca medicine can find that their spiritual processes are accelerated to the point where a grounded state of enlightenment is possible – inside and outside of ceremony.enlightenment is possible – inside and outside of ceremony.

It is important to realize that Ayahuasca is no ordinary psychedelic medicine. Anyone using it recreationally or for 'kicks' will find that the medicine has an inbuilt mechanism to prevent the medicine being abused in this manner. Ayahuasca is far stronger than psilocybin mushroom, LSD and other hallucinogens – save for San Pedro Cactus in very high doses (24 hour San Pedro experiences are not for the faint of heart).

Of course – one would only consume these medicines in legal settings and one would always check the legal status of any medicine in one's own country before proceeding further. I have had the experience of participating in over 250 medicine ceremonies (mainly with Ayahuasca) – all in legal settings – and as a result I am experienced in the use of the medicine and have an understanding of how these medicines work on a spiritual level. I have also only ever purged (vomited) 3 times throughout the whole 250+ ceremonies. I later went on to write books speaking about the spiritual experiences and understandings I had from the Ayahuasca as well as my experiences with higher-dimensional Beings.

Finally I became a Spiritual Master – partly as a result of a commitment to the Ayahausca Path and the healings that I received on the journey.

It can be helpful to see hallucinogens as adjuncts (tools) for the attainment of spiritual understanding rather than seeing them as the understanding (the end) in themselves. Whatever you see and experience is down to your own spiritual and energetic make-up – and the medicine cannot make you enlightened if you are not vibrationally aligned to spiritual reality in your life as a whole. You have to do the work and the healing for yourself so that you can sustain your spiritual connection outside of ceremony. The Ayahuasca will often repel those looking for 'kicks' – anyone thinking this medicine can be used like marijuana or LSD (recreationally) will find that the Ayahuasca does not lend itself to being used in this way. Whereas LSD and marijuana can enable people to see pretty patterns and have a nice feeling high – Ayahuasca is more intrinsically spiritual and connected to reality itself (rather than presenting a dreamsphere version on reality that can then be confused for being real).
Here are the five main spiritual benefits of drinking Ayahuasca:
http://in5d.com/images/ayahuasca-1.jpg
1. Ethical Awakening / Awareness of one's Conscience. Ayahuasca is an intense karmic cleansing agent. If you have done things that are ethically questionable – the Ayahuasca will make you aware of them by taking you to the places where the karma lies dormant in the body. In the awareness of those karmas – it is impossible to hide or ignore them – thus the spiritual value of the medicine is due to the fact that the experience will make you look at any repressed bad karma and associated emotions such as fear, guilt, shame, etc – thus facilitating a healing. In the clear light of the medicine experience – one can dissolve karma by recognizing the underlying causes, practicing self forgiveness and reprogramming oneself to act from a place of higher integrity. Thus if you cheat, lie, steal or engage in similar things – there is no hiding place in the Ayahuasca Ceremony for these things to remain. For those still attached to living a life of questionable integrity – the experience may be too frightening, but for those ready to clean up house – there is an extreme therapeutic value that can be derived from Ayahuasca.

2. Ayahausca shows you that the 3D world is a web of lies. Ayahuasca basically shows you that the game of the Matrix is a lie and will start to make you question the rules of the game. You may well realize who you really are and how you have spent much of your life caught up in lies that rob your energy and prevent you from attaining spiritual enlightenment. Many people also have visions of the collapse of humanity in ceremony. Here one is being reminded of the impermanence of the 3D world and how staying here is not really optional. As uncomfortable as it may be – only by seeing the truth does one have a chance of becoming a fully awakened being.

Ayahuasca also makes you look at your own lies. Whatever lies you are attached to – given enough ceremony time – will eventually come loose and be purged out or transmuted. The medicine will make you vomit if there is something that needs to be released – whether it be physical, emotional or 3. Ayahuasca will show you higher dimensional reality / the truth of ET's. If you do not believe in life after death or that ET's exist – after using the medicine you may see things in a new way. DMT Beings along with all kinds of other Upper Astral Beings are intelligences that exist in other realities and by using the medicine one is opening up one's consciousness to other realities that are usually inaccessible. In my own experiences, I astral travelled to different star systems, other galaxies and had many profound experiences with higher-dimensional ET'skarmic toxins. The medicine will also show you where you are being deceived externally so that you can release those attachments as well.

3. Ayahuasca will show you higher dimensional reality / the truth of ET's. If you do not believe in life after death or that ET's exist – after using the medicine you may see things in a new way. DMT Beings along with all kinds of other Upper Astral Beings are intelligences that exist in other realities and by using the medicine one is opening up one's consciousness to other realities that are usually inaccessible. In my own experiences, I astral travelled to different star systems, other galaxies and had many profound experiences with higher-dimensional ET's (described in more depth in my books).

I then went on to integrate the Star Being Wisdom in my own life. Many users of Ayahausca find that the medicine gives gifts of wisdom (some of them are too valuable to share) – but suffice to say – if you surrender to the Ayahuasca you can develop a deeper understanding of spiritual reality.

Ideally – the work is to integrate these higher-dimensional experiences and cleanse the Pineal Gland so that you can access these realities all of the time even without the medicine (living a strong life). However, in the interim – the Ayahuasca can help those interested in exploring the astral worlds to develop a deeper grounding, connection and integration with those realities. If your Pineal Gland is in good shape and your ethics are in order – you can develop a strong relationship with higher-dimensional worlds and commune with angels, devas, nature spirit, Star Beings and Ascended Masters.

4. Ayahuasca can help you to love and respect yourself. As you heal yourself more, your self worth increases as does your respect of your own relationship with Spirit/Source. As a result, you will naturally love and value yourself more and stop giving yourself second best all the time. If there are any issues lurking around connected with self sacrifice, self degradation, poverty – or anything else along those lines – the medicine will help you get rid of it so that you can live a more fulfilling, abundant and amazing life.

5. Ayahuasca teaches you about surrender. Control issues get in the way of spiritual enlightenment and understanding spiritual reality. The medicine can act as a strong mirror in this regard. Those who try and impose their will upon the Ayahuasca become frightened (and have a bad trip) – however in this experience one usually sees where one is not ready to let go and relax. Being able to trust and surrender to the power of the medicine can be a healing in itself. This then translates into the transcendence of control dramas in the outer world. You will not be interested in control drama and other similar crap in the world anymore because of the spiritual maturity that surrender to the medicine can bestow upon the user. Those who are able to learn the lesson of surrender can find that they are able to receive much sustenance and healing from Spirit in their lives as a whole. They can then go on to live long, happy, healthy and fulfilling lives from a space of spiritual wisdom and enlightenment.

About the author: Bio Free Spirit is a Spiritual Master and the author of three books including Keys to Immortality. Reproduction of the blog is permitted with the addition of the following text: This blog is reproduced with the permission of Spiritual Master Free Spirit and contains extracts of the book Keys to Immortality. Reproduced with the permission of Spiritual Master and author Free Spirit.
Website www.keystoimmortality.com

In5D Addendum: In5D is not recommending the use of ayahuasca as the above article is intended for educational purposes. According to Graham Hancock in the video below, the amount of ayahuasca needed to overdose is 20 gallons, which is far less than what is needed to obtain an ayahuasca experience. Additionally, Hancock stated that if you see a large 80 foot long snake or serpent-type creature on your ayahuasca journey, "Throw yourself in. Embrace this fear. Enter the mouth of the serpent and see what happens. You're not going to die. It's not going to eat you in the physical world."

Interestingly, Hancock also talks about archons in this clip as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnRz_L2B-iY

kemo

19th August 2014, 07:19

I'd like to try this, but it's not legal in the UK. Netherlands maybe? I might try mushrooms first as you can legally obtain the spores in the UK and yet it's not legal to grow them. I have a trick up my sleeve though on that one to avoid trouble with LEA - if I don't tell them they won't know.

Ciaran

19th August 2014, 07:56

I have some in the house waiting too get cooked up, it will be my first time trying it and I'm looking forward to whatever mother Ayahuasca has in store for me. a good psychic clean hopefully...

http://s28.postimg.org/8i6gyhas9/Ayahuasca_2.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/8i6gyhas9/)

kemo

19th August 2014, 12:10

Good luck. Let us know how you get on.

Jayren

19th August 2014, 13:25

[QUOTE=Ciaran;866238]I have some in the house waiting too get cooked up, it will be my first time trying it and I'm looking forward to whatever mother Ayahuasca has in store for me. a good psychic clean hopefully...

[img]http://s28.postimg.org/8i6gyhas9/Ayahuasca_2.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/8i6gyhas9/)[/I
Do you know where someone could obtain all the ingredients?

Ciaran

20th August 2014, 07:36

I had to order the stuff from Holland, here's the site i used apparently the stuff they sell is good quality, properly sourced from sustainable farmers... https://maya-ethnobotanicals.com/ but if you live in america i would assume you would be able to get a source closer to home?

Finefeather

20th August 2014, 11:54

It is my personal experience that no drug or substance on this planet can benefit anyone spiritually...I have taken them all.

The only thing that happens when taking any of these claimed 'spiritual enhancing" substances is a prolonged temporary focus on the level of spirituality which you already are capable of but have just been too lazy to practice.
It is impossible to raise your 'spirituality' by external substances...we each have to do it from within.

Spirituality is an inner process...you cannot buy your way to heaven :)

Of course what often happens is that the participant gets such a rush out of the session that he/she decides to, finally, get onto some permanent path...and this is were the personal inner work starts.

So if you need a peek into where you are at at this point in time then go ahead and take whatever you desire...after all you have the right...so let no one try to prevent you from the experience.
I have found that many are reluctant to try things because of fear and moral judgements by ignorant brothers who have not got that little bit of courage which is often needed :)

Of course when you are finished and back to earth, it's back to the same old rut you might have been in to start with.

Happy trip
Ray

eaglespirit

20th August 2014, 12:28

Let it be known that I am in accordance with Finefeather and have done dozens of journeys(2010) with ayahuasca and san pedro in the lower jungles of Peru. San Pedro(High Andes Cactus) was my preferred medicine because ayahuasca put me on a bit of a drunk while being highly enhancing(I never threw up like many do). I have been clean and sober from drugs and alcohol for 26 years and the 'drunk' from ayahuasca resonated less for me than the spiritual medicine of san pedro(somewhat like peyote) properly prepared.
Most or all of the first post by linksplatinum can possibly be true for you as can most or all of the post by Finefeather be possibly true for you.

Let it also be known that I worked the 12 steps of AA fervently starting in 1988 and did an intense and thorough 4th and 5th step in 1989. This was very, very important as to my relationship with these medicines, imho.

I had had an intense life changing experience on a sacred Native American hill in 2007 also.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30405-Here-and-Now...What-s-Happening&p=866675&viewfull=1#post866675

These medicines help You if You are ready to help You and Others...it is that simple. They can also be life changing in very good and altruistic ways because You experience things that are beyond explanation and very personal in a spiritual way that lead You to a New Personal Responsibility to Help Others and to Connect to All of Life on Mother Earth, and yes...the Cosmos too. This is really the TRUE Shamanic Way!

The Best and Highest Good to You All!

Finefeather

20th August 2014, 13:07

South Africa have one of the few legal Iboga Clinics right here in Cape Town were I live and they do some remarkable work with drug addiction...you can also go on a spiritual trip there as well...thought you might be interested in what they do...here is the website.
http://www.iboga.co.za/

Operator

20th August 2014, 15:18

Finefeather

20th August 2014, 16:55

Is it advisable to try this at home without experienced guidance?

When I explained the difference between hallucinogenic drugs and narcotics to someone he justly
pointed out that hallucinogenic drugs can still be dangerous because e.g. a guy who used paddo's
(hallucinogenic mushrooms) thought he had wings now and jumped out of window ...

I think that a warning is good advice ....
The greatest risk when taking these type of drugs or potions (some people don't like the word 'drugs') is that most people end up in the astral(emotional) world.

This part of reality is the most dangerous and confusing place because what you see is basically a reflection of your mind and thinking. Unless you are trained in the astral everything you see and experience there is fake...unreal...an illusion...which is so convincing that you will think it is real...like most people who have been there, write about and believe is real.

Things that might be deep seated in your subconscious are likely to manifest in some way and this is often what causes emotional trauma and a fear panic...so you have to be ready for what you might encounter.
On the other hand if you are a focussed and clean living kind of person the experience could be quite profound and beautiful and you might even become hooked on the stuff :)

So there is no general rule and that is why most of these sessions recommend that some safe house be used...the need for professional emergency procedures should not be overlooked and underestimated...your heart may fail due to fear or anxiety.

Just be cautious, and having a good frame of mind at the start is the most important thing...what you are and what you think is what you are going to get.

Take care
Ray

Joanne Shepard

20th August 2014, 23:14

Graham Hancock has done it over 50 times and he said it has changed his life, but he went to the best Shamans for his experiences.

Ciaran

21st August 2014, 11:07

Finefeather

21st August 2014, 13:54

I appreciate all the advice and concern, i feel that this should be solitary journey for me as i am at the stage for a change in my life and wish to expand my awareness, Finefeather i understand what you mean about not relying on any substance for spiritual needs, not so much on the lazy part, bit judgemental. but i disagree with you in regards to these plants, i believe they are here to help us or why would they have a profound effect on so many people, and in most cases if not all, the plants are leading people in the right direction who have been lost and disconnected from nature and each other for so long to a healthier balanced life, and the people from the west especially who's minds have been poisoned for so long need a profound experience too emerge them from the fake reality they have been enslaved in.
Dear Ciaran
Always remember to never loose your sense of humour :)

I understand what you are trying to say and agree largely with what you are saying but it is important to understand from which attitude, or state of mind, these people might be coming from. I also have indicated that I am far from opposed to this practice.

My point is that if someone changes from some attitude to...as you say..."a balanced life"...this has very little to do with spirituality in it's true meaning. There are millions of people who live a balanced good life but are far from some spiritual path.
The effect of these plants has in these cases merely made the person(s) realise that there is something more to life than where they have been stuck at...and i am been very general here because each person is in a somewhat different state of awareness.

This same 'conversion' or realisation can come from many places and 'the plant' is simply a means to an end as can be a NDE, or some other traumatic occurrence, or even a profoundly beautiful experience.

Being spiritual in the true sense of the word is the act of service to others in order to facilitate and aid in the consciousness development of others and thus also evolution. The fact that anyone, after taking some plant, is able to realise their predicament, still has not realised the act of spirituality.
Even years after this shift in focus most are still far from been able to serve in the true sense of the word...they are still in the process of changing their own lives to be of service to others...the majority of humans are in this category...and there is nothing wrong with it just because someone judges it to be so.

We think that spirituality is the act of becoming good or realising the error of our ways, but this is far from the truth...there are more good people in the world than bad...being good is not a sign of spirituality...it is the act of service to others which will enlighten people by coming face to face with real brotherhood...and not just been nice or good and thinking we are spiritual.

This is the key to world peace...if a person is good and does no harm and just accumulates 'spiritual' knowledge and does not use the knowledge to help others then his/her life has no meaning...no matter how many spiritual facts he/she can recite out loud...if everyone served everyone else then self indulgence will disappear...we will forget about our own little desires of the ego...and we will all live in unity with one another...because no body wants anything from anyone...except their well being. Until this is the norm 'spiritual practice' as seen by the uninformed is merely an act of self indulgence.

The true spiritual man sees no boundaries or differences between people...the imposter judges his/her position in order to determine how far ahead he/she is from the others...this is a sure sign of the ego at work, and a far cry from been 'spiritual'

Take care now
Ray

Wind

22nd August 2014, 18:24

I know that many people have awakened using hallusinogens or even weed. I have never have tried any drugs and never actually had any supernatural events in my life. When it comes to substances like ayahuasca, I'm not sure that I would have even the courage to try it, at least not in this point of my life. I don't feel like that I even need to use them, because my awakening occured naturally and I always have prefered the more natural ways when it comes to spirituality, but I still think the likes of Graham Hancock and Ram Dass have been very brave and also they are wayshowers when they traveled to the unseel realms (or Robert Monroe). I found this video to be fascinating.

SrQr1DGOAuY

Finefeather

22nd August 2014, 19:17

Psilocybin is from the mexican mushroom...
Here is an interesting chart...
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/49735000/gif/_49735645_drugs_comparisons_464gr.gif

Skyhaven

24th August 2014, 11:19

I have heard stories of people lapsing into a state of anxiety on DMT/Ayahuasca...

TargeT

25th August 2014, 17:14

Finefeather

25th August 2014, 21:32

It is my personal experience that no drug or substance on this planet can benefit anyone spiritually...I have taken them all.

Please do not state opinions authoritatively; not only is this not true (anecdotally) based on thousands of other opinions but you are leveraging logical fallacy to try and prove a point which is probably rooted in some personal view point on these types of tools being used.

TargeT...thank you for pointing this out to me and I would agree that when I posted “I have taken them all”, that it was an impossibility...to say the least...my response to this is that in typing this I was already up ahead at the claimed spiritual benefits of the effects of any drug or any substance.

So I retract that rather bold and unambiguous phrase...a more appropriate phrase would have been “I have taken many of them”

Stating that no substance can spiritually benefit anyone is, in my view, a fact...and it can only be fully understood when we understand what spirituality is...what our...unknown to most...level of consciousness is at the point at which we ingest these substances...and the possible hidden reason for being led into wanting to take these substances...be it just for fun, or as an experiment, or out of curiosity. So my entire contribution on this thread is aimed at this one single claim by those who think some benefit is gained...when in reality there is none...but I will need to attempt to clarify my supposed dogmatism :)

The only thing that happens when taking any of these claimed 'spiritual enhancing" substances is a prolonged temporary focus on the level of spirituality which you already are capable of but have just been too lazy to practice.
It is impossible to raise your 'spirituality' by external substances...we each have to do it from within.

Of course when you are finished and back to earth, it's back to the same old rut you might have been in to start with.

Happy trip
Ray

Now I'm going to completely question your opening statements, especially after this:

Of course when you are finished and back to earth, it's back to the same old rut you might have been in to start with.

You see there is a phenomenon that occurs with the use of DMT (N-Dimethyltryptamine) based tools, the DMT's structure:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/DMT.svg/236px-DMT.svg.png

is very very similar to serotonin (5-HT or 5-hydroxytryptamine):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Serotonin-2D-skeletal.svg/304px-Serotonin-2D-skeletal.svg.png

and the use of it (DMT or similar structures) produces a very predictable "novelty" response which causes these experiences to be the most profound experience in the lives of those who have experienced it.

In fact most "psychedelics" are simply leveraging a natural phenomenon that exists inside our physiology already, the serotonin receptors.

For example, Mescaline (San Pedro cacti / Peyote) has been used in mexico and south america for (depending on the region) 5000-10000+ years, look at its structure:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/Mescaline_Structural_Formula.svg/512px-Mescaline_Structural_Formula.svg.png

And so, it is in fact the same as using a pulley system to lift a heavy block, you CAN do it with or with out a tool; those who choose to use the tools do seem to "get there" much faster (in both cases......).

We have found the keys to an internal lock, you have every right to ignore that key or look down on it; but do not speak authoritatively on its usefulness.
Well the images you have posted do not really speak for themselves and your claims are also just too general to be of any hard and fast evidence for any proof of 'spiritual' benefits.

If we were to reword the thread to say that these substances can benefit some of us, then I would agree with most of what you are proposing...but by putting this up on a forum of such a vast number of readers we should be careful what is claimed...so the position I have taken is to be more cautious...although I have stated that I do not oppose the practice when done in the correct environment.

Comparing the effect of a substance to a pulley system as you have above tells me a more interesting thing about how you are applying the concept of becoming spiritual...and I think this is why we might be differing.

If in fact this concept was correct...and the 'tool' can be used to benefit spiritual growth...then you need to ask yourself why many of those taking these substances lapse back in to the same state after using the 'tool'...and why some continue on some 'spiritual' path and seem to blossom profoundly?

There must be a reason else we would not have such a large difference in experiences by many people.

Also...just to sidetrack a bit...I have noticed people who take cannabis enhance only their inner thinking. The criminal who takes cannabis does not suddenly become a saint...and this is the same effect I have found in other substances. The effect of a mind altering substance cannot permanently enhance true 'spirituality' simply because 'spirituality' is not what the average person thinks it is.
This is a vast subject and it would be impossible to give enough knowledge on a forum to allow a sudden shift in thinking...then, also...the most important thing is that knowledge means nothing unless it is comprehended and understood and this only comes from personal experience.

We are each at different stages in our consciousness evolution and in each new life we bring with us only our major traits and 'personality'...the rest of the memories of our thousands of past lives are in our subconscious and we do not remember this stuff because it might interfere with our goals for the current incarnation...BUT...in a growing number of cases now we have monads in the human stage, who are relatively advanced and even they need to have a trigger to remember some of the knowledge they have accumulated in their many incarnation...if they need that knowledge for some reason.

Now 'spirituality' is a word which has been turned into some religious and moral idea of the trinity...body, soul and spirit is the Christian version. This has mislead most into believing that 'spirit', supposedly being higher than soul and body, is the goal, and all religions teach some kind of separation between these 3 aspects of the great trinity...in the Hindu religion we see Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva...

In fact the real trinity is the 3 aspects of life...matter, consciousness and energy and they cannot , ever be separate...they each depend on the other. So if we become more 'spiritual' then what we are in fact attempting to do is simply use the energy part of the trinity at a higher priority level than the matter aspect...so matter becomes less dense and energy becomes greater which allows us to create and live in a divine way.

Now the thing that allows us to understand this process is consciousness...awareness...and awareness comes from knowledge of life and of the cosmos...and even if we have learnt the entire book of the cosmos off by heart we would still only have subjective knowledge of it...this is called subjective consciousness and subjective conscious, although useful, does not qualify as inner objective experience of the higher worlds and life, which is one of the goals of the human race in order for us to advance to the next higher kingdom...just as we as humans have moved from the animal to the human kingdom...there are 7 natural physical kingdoms in the cosmos...we have made it to the 4th only...then and only then do we start with the Cosmic life.

So 'spirituality' has become the illusive holy grail for some when in reality it is knowledge which we seek by personal objective experience...and no substance or drug can give you personal objective experience of life...you have to live life to acquire objective consciousness which gives us the knowledge of how we should apply our lives in this planet in order to achieve unity and brotherhood...and we do this by serving others...NOT ourselves in some mystical state induced by some substance.

The claim that a substance...a 'tool' seems to benefit us is a myth based on ignorance of the state of the persons who seem like they are benefiting when in fact they are just triggering their own state of 'spirituality' which even they might be unaware of.

I know of many people who have had a trigger...it's called remembrance anew...ie...remembering again where we were before in this new life...and they have continued were they left off and made great progress.

Yes...the substance was the remembrance catalyst...NOT the 'tool' which has enhanced 'spirituality'...and this is why not every person becomes a guru after taking 'the substance'...the cases we read of and know of where this was a success could have happened in a dozen or more other ways.

I have heard stories of people lapsing into a state of anxiety on DMT/Ayahuasca...
-----
because the tool shows you what you need to work on in a very very meaningful way, usually by taking that which you desperately avoid and shoving it in your awareness so that you HAVE to deal with it... those that cannot manage their own anxiety before the tool will not deal well with it's use.

This is why its very important to have a guide with you, someone knowledgeable will see this in you and if possible mitigate it or just prevent the use of the tool if the case is severe enough.

In walks the shaman.....
Once again here it seems as if you give the 'tool' and 'a guide' a vast amount of authority and right to decide what is good and right for you...which is certainly useful and may be advisable when it comes to the guide or expert...but when relating it to the 'tool', that is just impossible.
The 'tool' does nothing of the sort...it is the mind which can be influenced by who knows who. Inexperienced participants are open to many dark forces and the greatest problem is that these are the ones who might end up been lead on a totally wrong path.

The best advise to anyone who is not familiar and or experienced with dealing with forces in the lower emotional (astral) worlds is to give this a miss. Illusion is very real and if you think you have seen good fake computer graphics scenarios, then you won't believe what can take place in the lower astral worlds...be warned.

Take care
Ray

I have corrected a few grammar errors and added the word "objective" to clarify consciousness in 2 sentences.

NancyV

28th August 2014, 03:29

Being spiritual in the true sense of the word is the act of service to others in order to facilitate and aid in the consciousness development of others and thus also evolution. The fact that anyone, after taking some plant, is able to realise their predicament, still has not realised the act of spirituality.

Even years after this shift in focus most are still far from been able to serve in the true sense of the word...they are still in the process of changing their own lives to be of service to others...the majority of humans are in this category...and there is nothing wrong with it just because someone judges it to be so.

We think that spirituality is the act of becoming good or realising the error of our ways, but this is far from the truth...there are more good people in the world than bad...being good is not a sign of spirituality...it is the act of service to others which will enlighten people by coming face to face with real brotherhood...and not just been nice or good and thinking we are spiritual.

This is the key to world peace...if a person is good and does no harm and just accumulates 'spiritual' knowledge and does not use the knowledge to help others then his/her life has no meaning...no matter how many spiritual facts he/she can recite out loud...if everyone served everyone else then self indulgence will disappear...we will forget about our own little desires of the ego...and we will all live in unity with one another...because no body wants anything from anyone...except their well being. Until this is the norm 'spiritual practice' as seen by the uninformed is merely an act of self indulgence.

The true spiritual man sees no boundaries or differences between people...the imposter judges his/her position in order to determine how far ahead he/she is from the others...this is a sure sign of the ego at work, and a far cry from been 'spiritual'

Take care now
Ray
I truly like your outlook/philosophy, Ray, even though I disagree with your definitions of being spiritual or living a spiritual life. We are all powerful, unlimited spiritual beings having a temporary experience of being in a body/vehicle. Our spirit interfaces with a mind and body which are greatly influenced by animal instincts. We may also be subject to karma, if we accept that belief, so living a life that in your definition may be non spiritual or less spiritual could, in fact, be the most highly evolved thing we could be doing for our spiritual growth. Or maybe just for plain fun!

The most egotistical person may actually be highly evolved but needs to have a certain type of experience this time around. I prefer to not judge why people are the way they are, or if they are ultimately more or less spiritual, because I do not know WHY they are living the life they live or act the way they do. My human self dislikes a great many people and I keep away from them, but I do not judge them as less spiritual than anyone else. I just don't like them in this incarnation.

Helping others is a personal choice and extremely egotistical. It presumes that you believe the person you are helping is doing the incorrect thing for themselves, cannot extricate themselves from the situation or cannot help themselves and you know better than they what they need. Well, that's a bit harsh but when you do help others it is totally your choice, it's something you want to do. It is not a prerequisite to being a highly evolved and aware spiritual being. (in my not so humble opinion)

I have tried many different drugs, although not ayahuasca. I enjoyed even the most dangerous and scary experiences, like peyote, and feel they benefited me but there is no doubt that I had almost no control over the experiences compared to meditation and leaving my body with no drugs at all. I would never recommend taking drugs to anyone but if they want to do it, as I did, I would probably warn them that it could be dangerous, but if they are driven to do it there is likely a good reason.

I also prefer to not have a guide although I have had some over the years. I will listen to the guidance then do whatever I want when I am in an experience either in or out of body. I always trust my own instincts over the advice and experience of others, including shamans, gurus, angels and gods, even though their experiences and help are appreciated and can sometimes come in handy.

So there can be great spiritual benefits to using Ayahuasca and any other drug, even if it's ends up as a negative experience. Spiritual awareness isn't usually reached on a straight path with UP being the only direction. Some of us need to descend into the depths, even consort with demons.... in order to reach the heights.

For me the most important thing has been to extricate myself from any set beliefs or judgments and it's a constant battle. It's way too easy to get stuck along the way. As soon as you think you've found the ultimate path/belief or experience, THAT is when you can easily get stuck. I've done it many times and no matter how good it feels to think I am on the ultimate path, it always feels so much better when I finally free myself from a limiting belief system.

Finefeather

28th August 2014, 12:36

Hi Dear Nancy...thank you for your response to my post. I always look forward to reading your posts.... Now, please, I am not in anyway trying to suggest that you might be wrong and I have all the answers...because believe me when I say that one thing I have learnt is just how utterly ignorant I am of this vast thing we call life.

Anyway...I was nodding my head in agreement with some of your post when I was reminded of the story about the blind men and an elephant ; broadly, the parable implies that one's subjective experience can be true, but that such experience is inherently limited by its failure to account for other truths or a totality of truth.

This parable has always haunted me when I come onto a forum and post my views so please remember that what I post is always just my current thinking...which seems to change from day to day as I experience more during my interaction with life. So I would just like to give you my current thinking on some of your comments...with the greatest of respect and love to you.

Also I am not in the least bit interested at being seen as right...I merely wish to state my views as clearly as possible.

We are all powerful, unlimited spiritual beings having a temporary experience of being in a body/vehicle. Our spirit interfaces with a mind and body which are greatly influenced by animal instincts. We may also be subject to karma, if we accept that belief, so living a life that in your definition may be non spiritual or less spiritual could, in fact, be the most highly evolved thing we could be doing for our spiritual growth. Or maybe just for plain fun!
I think that we need to get the correct idea of just who we are and stop believing in some old outdated concepts which have been around for many years, conceived by those who have no idea of reality and driven by self serving motives.

We are not powerful, unlimited spiritual beings yet...we only have the potential to be so, and the experience we are having in a body/vehicle...although, rightly, of a temporary nature in the larger picture...is exactly where we are now in our evolutionary growth. Your statement above gives me the impression that we are some kind of evolved being who has decided to spend some time in a dense physical plane for some fun and maybe a few lessons...this is very far from what I have experienced...if we were 'highly evolved' we would not be acting the way most of us do and living in a world filled with such suffering and ignorance.

The need to know exactly who we are is the key to understanding why we do what we do.
I have found only one set of writings which explains this to me in such a way that it makes perfect sense...and believe me I have searched all my life, and read all the philosophies out there, for more than 50 years.

Simply put we are ignorant of our situation because we just don't know the bigger picture, and the best our egos can do is concoct up stories of fiction to make us feel we are on top of the problem. This has resulted in hundreds of fictitious ideas, religions and philosophies to choose from and each one claims to be the right one...and the irony of the story is that we cannot know what the right one is until we prove it to ourselves by objective experience of the laws and nature of live. This experience leads to consciousness growth and consciousness growth leads to a larger view of the big picture. We have only just scratched the surface of a life which is divine for reasons the majority of humans have no idea of...so we have invented things like 'gods' and 'source' and a 'higher self' to make some sense out of our ignorance.

The most egotistical person may actually be highly evolved but needs to have a certain type of experience this time around. I prefer to not judge why people are the way they are, or if they are ultimately more or less spiritual, because I do not know WHY they are living the life they live or act the way they do. My human self dislikes a great many people and I keep away from them, but I do not judge them as less spiritual than anyone else. I just don't like them in this incarnation.
I agree with you in general here but I would refrain from the use of the phrase “highly evolved”. The scale from which we are supposing 'evolvement' is misleading because if someone was 'highly evolved' they would not come for a certain experience because physical experience in general is for the 'less evolved'. Highly evolved beings incarnate to serve mankind...and serving is very far from what the average person believes it is.

There are 6 kingdoms in just the physical world of the cosmos...and there are many many more higher cosmic levels...and we have so far 'evolved' ONLY to the 4th kingdom…
1 Mineral, 2 Plant, 3 Animal, 4 Human, 5 …., 6 …. 7 is only the start of our Cosmic journey...we have not yet made it out of the cradle yet, and we think we are so wise.

If we think we are humans, and always have been and will be, we are sadly mistaken.

Higher evolved beings start at the 5th kingdom...which is 4 worlds above ours...and incarnate for the sole purpose of serving...this is the 'home' of the Planetary Hierarchy...our evolved brothers.

Helping others is a personal choice and extremely egotistical. It presumes that you believe the person you are helping is doing the incorrect thing for themselves, cannot extricate themselves from the situation or cannot help themselves and you know better than they what they need. Well, that's a bit harsh but when you do help others it is totally your choice, it's something you want to do. It is not a prerequisite to being a highly evolved and aware spiritual being. (in my not so humble opinion)
Service to others has got nothing whatsoever to do with holding someone's hand through life...or interfering with someone's choice...or pretending to know the status of someone's evolution...or thinking we know better than another.

Service to others is about the attitude and presentation of our life gifts and talents and knowledge for the betterment of the rest of the world as a collective evolutionary Being...and has nothing to do with the ego who you are describing quite well above...it is leading by example.
Service to others sacrifices all materialism and self serving motives to give all an equal share of the unity we are all a part of...even if we think no such thing exists.

Egoism is about self perpetuation and like Darwin's theory it is about the survival of the fittest...especially 'I” which is correct for the animal nature. Egoism is an ancient instinct from the animal kingdom which we still are locked into...the human kingdom's goal is unity, brotherhood and service.

Service to self, however, is not always an egotistical act, if and when it is been used with the motive of serving more adequately...this is quite a complex subject and involves reaping and sowing and also destiny...for example:

Some people may incarnate and have a life of good reaping and become extremely rich financially by using their knowledge of life...the deciding factor whether this becomes a bad sowing or a good sowing (service to self or service to others) is what they do with the money...so a financially rich person who is using his money/power for some good could be very spiritual and not even be aware of what is meant by it...because spirituality is not what it appears to be. This person has been used by life because of the inner nature of his/her being to help uplift the community, or the city, or the country, or even the world.

The same goes for what is now known incorrectly as 'been spiritual'...the more 'spiritual' we become the more knowledge we have supposedly acquired in relation to the end goal of the human evolution...which is 'graduating' to the 5th kingdom...but we could also just stick around forever...in ongoing incarnations...using our so called individual spiritual knowledge and magical tricks to satisfy our egos by demonstrating to the awe inspired crowds what can be done if we just practice...and they will become our humble followers...thinking that life is about having out of body experiences and been able to tell fortunes...or some other mystical or occult phenomena...which can be attained by anyone...'good' or 'bad'...or we can realise that humanity is a collective and all are one in that sense and so we begin to find ways which will be beneficial to the group we are a part of...in order to grow in consciousness and thus evolve to become the higher evolved beings which we are destined to become.

The individual personality is of no concern in the higher kingdoms...we must lose the notion that individually we are all powerful...all knowing, because the individual personality is just another term for ego...which is the illusion which we have to set aside.

Of course life is not all work and no play, but imagine if we all had each other's well-being at heart...we would then have what most dream of...paradise on earth...and the queue would be miles long to incarnate to enjoy life in earth instead of been miles long in order to get out of life on earth :)

Enlightenment is not achieved through meditation of any kind, or by reading thousands of books, or by performing mystical or occult acts...enlightenment is earned and forged in the furnaces of life by the sacrifice of our self serving desires and our willingness to serve the group, such as we have on earth. Many who have spent most of their lives in meditation, learning from books, telling people how spiritual they are and hoping to escape reincarnation are back in good old planet earth----and are now working for a living. The road to enlightenment is filled with blood, sweat, and tears----those who attain it have callused souls to prove their worth.

So there can be great spiritual benefits to using Ayahuasca and any other drug, even if it's ends up as a negative experience. Spiritual awareness isn't usually reached on a straight path with UP being the only direction. Some of us need to descend into the depths, even consort with demons.... in order to reach the heights.
So here again I do not agree with the idea that we are some highly evolved being on a trip to the physical plane and having to descend and consort with demons just to have the experience...so we can call it becoming spiritual.

Those who end up in these kind of situations are there because they either belong there or they come to serve in that area.

I am surprised when you talk of spiritual benefits and having to descend into negative depths...to reach to heights...we are all already in the 'thick' of it...it is we humans who have created every bottomless pit of hell...demons...bad attitudes...power hungry nasty evil situations...murderers...rapists...etc etc...no one else...so what benefit would we get from this if we already have been this ourselves for thousands of incarnation by going back into it?

It is true that some move and work in these lower regions of life, as some form of service, but they do this out of love and not because they are going down there for some spiritual points.

Most are not aware that we have had 10s of thousands of incarnations and we will continue for many many more until we sit up and take notice of some obvious truths.

We are evolving out of this negative thinking which we have become as a collective and it is only the work of those who serve...those who come from higher worlds...who can get us out of the mess we created for ourselves...but they will not do it for us we have to do it ourselves...they do not have the right to assist...they inspire us by their deeds and ways.

After we have moved to the next higher kingdom...only then will we be able to see the amazing path that we have had to tread to achieve the freedom and peace and love which we for so long have struggled for.

As much as we don't want to believe it and as dramatic as it sounds the human race cannot progress without higher knowledge...that is the prime function of the true server...and this progress we make might be 'spirituality'...calling oneself 'spiritual' lacks any meaning when in the presence of different sects, religions and philosophers and is used today by anyone who thinks they are better than those who do not use it...and the problem here may just be that the ego has once again taken control to impress others how important they think they want to be.

The true server and advanced being does not measure his/her status by some term which cannot even be absolutely defined...they just are what they are.

Take care and much love
Ray

TargeT

28th August 2014, 13:29

The claim that a substance...a 'tool' seems to benefit us is a myth based on ignorance of the state of the persons who seem like they are benefiting when in fact they are just triggering their own state of 'spirituality' which even they might be unaware of.

I know of many people who have had a trigger...it's called remembrance anew...ie...remembering again where we were before in this new life...and they have continued were they left off and made great progress.

Yes...the substance was the remembrance catalyst...NOT the 'tool' which has enhanced 'spirituality'...and this is why not every person becomes a guru after taking 'the substance'...the cases we read of and know of where this was a success could have happened in a dozen or more other ways.

Just so we are on the same page:
A tool is any physical item that can be used to achieve a goal, especially if the item is not consumed in the process. Informally the word is also used to describe a procedure or process with a specific purpose. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tool)

I think we agree far more than we disagree on this topic.

this tool isn't by any definition I know of "spiritual" itself, it simply forces you into your inner landscape, and by doing this it forces a lot of introspection.

Now, my definition of reality and "why we are here" are probably different than yours and many people's. For me we are here to learn and grow, but specifically we are here to learn about ourselves via an unbiased objective observance of ourselves through the many different points of consciousness that exists.

So a tool like this makes a lot of sense (based on the view point I espouse currently).

You call it a remembrance catalyst, I agree!

Once again here it seems as if you give the 'tool' and 'a guide' a vast amount of authority and right to decide what is good and right for you.

I honestly don't see any authority there, a guide is just that, like a sign which you can choose to heed or not (as is often done with speed limit signs), the sign itself has no authority, nor do the colors on it, they are just there to serve a purpose; and a voluntary purpose at that.

Ahh the limits of text communication are amazing, aren't they?

anyway, hopefully that clarified what I attempted to convey.

we are some kind of evolved being who has decided to spend some time in a dense physical plane for some fun and maybe a few lessons.

This is what I believe, but we aren't "some kind" of evolved being; we are source, we are all that is, was, and will be.

Z7YKnKo8J-4

I think we created this reality for some reason, probably to learn more about ourselves. And that means that "negative" and "positive" are just a part of the system we created, Duality holds this reality together... we live in a Binary reality. ([QUOTE=Finefeather;868964]) (Positive and Negative) and as strange as it seems, both are valid experiences when self exploration is involved.

or maybe this is all wrong, its my current theory though. :suspicious:

Finefeather

28th August 2014, 13:41

Thanks TargeT
I agree that we are on the same page basically and that is all that counts...the enjoyment is often in the detail so enjoy yours :)

Many thanks for your kind patience...I enjoy your posts when you get into the science...like the Radio Activity post :)

whenyournex2me

8th September 2014, 21:59

TargeT

9th September 2014, 01:07

look into the St Diame church in Ashland Oregon (southern oregon), they will have what you seek.

linksplatinum

9th September 2014, 06:40

I cant find a place in northern California that will allow me to undergo this therapy. can anyone help me? I want to do this as soon as possible. I need to confront my self now!!!! I need to break these strings that are holding me back and down... It is time. NOW! I would appreciate the help please... I feel I'm looking grasp of the three most important things to me: my health and well being, my loved one Rozanne, and my hobbies(career) studies. If I could say one to ten the urgency of my desire or need right now to confront myself and deal with this fear of loss and fear of insanity, i give myself a 15. please... ty.

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