It sticks in their craw that Shakespeare was a person like you or I

[Herbert]

The so-called elite can’t stand the thought that Shakespeare wrote Shakespeare.

I can vouch, based on my own father’s education, that grade 8 of the early 20th century gave far more eloquence, knowledge and the tools for learning than a PhD degree of today.

Shakespeare was in touch with his feelings and therefore showed great empathy for his characters. The so-called “elite” have been duped most of all into thinking themselves superior to any ordinary person.

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I’ve been saying much of this for years and finally someone who agrees.

[Ellisa]

This is a really interesting video! I have never understood the burning passion to discredit a brilliant man whose work resonates with us so thrillingly today. Could it be jealousy? Surely not!

That Shakespeare had an insight into human nature that reflects the truth after 400 years is amazing, and if you doubt this read, for example, 'Corialanus,' which explores the aristocratic military mind as in a scarily accurate way. However I disagree with the lecturer in this video. Shakespeare was not the son of an illiterate glover who only had a basic education. True, his father was a glover, a skilled trade, but his father was a rich man who became an Alderman in Stratford. He would have to have been literate to do this. He lost a great deal of his money through unfortunate business dealings, but was able to send his son to the local Grammar school. There young Will would have received a solid classical education, studying Latin, possibly some Greek and the newly discovered rich literature of the Renaissance. He would also have studied some mathematics, Geography and science, and possibly some modern languages. The Grammar schools were of a high education standard, and many evolved into the great schools of England. They were private schools and not the same as dame's schools. As he grew up Will developed into a bit of a tearaway-- there is suggestion of poaching and the fact of marriage at 18 to Anne Hathaway, (the daughter of a wealthy farmer) who, though 8 years older, was pregnant with Judith, the child who out lived her father. Judith married a Dr Hall and their house was the biggest in Stratford! (This was a wealthy family). Shakespeare left for London about 10 years after the marriage. His family of 3 (twins had been born) stayed in Stratford. He seems to have kept in touch, and when he started to age Shakespeare returned home, where he died. His wife out-lived him.

I have posted this history to help dispel the idea that Shakespeare was an illiterate bore, who does not deserve the honours we have given him. In fact, with a bit of a shaky start , marriage at 18 is usually not a good idea, but he overcame the disadvantage and made the most of the opportunities that arose. His mind must have been bursting with ideas, and he seems to have experienced success in London quickly.

We should give him the recognition he deserves, as one of the greatest minds ever.

[Hazel]

The man was adept at coining so many of lifes' quandaries... to such as these I tip my hat:

“Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them?”


― William Shakespeare, Hamlet

[johnf]

To be, or not to be, that is the question, such a fine koan!

John

[sigma6]

That is not it all, Shakespeare besides being illiterate, couldn't have wrote Shakespeare. One very interesting point alone clinches it; all it's references to law are 100% accurate. No judge or lawyer has described it otherwise. And some of the stories are quite elaborate. There is no way a commoner could have pulled that off. No possible way. It's more than just witty fiction. If you read certain parts of the King James Bible (I think I read the New International Version, since that is all they had) I clearly read books in the bible, that absolutely reminded me of the prose of Shakespeare. It was unmistakable. Shakespeare was a code name for a group of people. There was a very specific agenda behind why they wrote it. In many ways now I see it as an adjunct to Biblical text (which itself I now see as a hidden code) And also, who on this earth would write their own name with 10 different spellings? I also think there was something about the signatures not matching either. And remember this was 500 years before things like signature analysis or fingerprinting, etc.

[Stephanie]

The man was adept at coining so many of lifes' quandaries... to such as these I tip my hat:

William Shakespeare


'To thine ownself be true,
and it must follow,
as the night the day,
thou canst not then,
be false to any man,'


'How far that little candle throws its beam!
So shines a good deed in a naughty world'.


'O' what may man within him hide,
though angel on the outward side!'

[sirdipswitch]

Shakespeare... was the pen name... of, Sir Francis Bacon:wizard:

[andrewgreen]

Shakespeare... was the pen name... of, Sir Francis Bacon:wizard:

Thats what this debate is about. Sir Francis Bacon, a member of the elites must have wrote it as he isn't an ordinary man........right.

[Ellisa]

Bacon was a brilliant man, but he had the soul of a scientist, (he died trying to freeze a chicken--- he caught pneumonia), and a jurist. He also acted as a spy, and though he wrote poetry it was not very impressive. He lived an amazing life and was honoured in his life-time, but no one at the time suggested he had written Hamlet--- or even Henry the V111. That suggestion was made by an american woman (can't remember her name but it may have been Bacon). she literally spent her fortune trying to prove this idea.

Whilst I firmly believe that a man called William Shakespeare wrote these plays, I also feel it doesn't really matter who did. The plays are written, and they are magnificent. Well done to whomsoever wrote them!


Her name WAS Bacon--- Delia Bacon

[Hervé]

Interesting to see what one will come up with when data are inaccurate, missing or omitted... like missing pieces of a puzzle which can never be resolved into a full picture... keeps one busy chasing skyhooks :)

For example, what if the Bacon stuff is only a misdirection to entertain some boudoir's gossips?

E.g.:


How about that Sicilian guy... Michelangelo Florio Crollalanza?


Michelangelo Florio Crollalanza Aka The Bard?

Very intriguing theory with so many amazing coincidences in the life of the Sicilian Michelangelo Florio Crollalanza that would fill the biographical gaps in the life of the official Shakespeare that any historian has tried to explain without getting to any reasonable conclusion. The theory of the possible Italian origins of Shakespeare is widely accepted in Italy now even though I guess that his immense and unique work belongs to humanity:

http://www.abeautifuldifference.com/webdoc9091.html

Did you know that Shakespeare's biographers of his time state that he had a strong foreign accent?

One of the early works of Michelangelo Florio Crollalanza, written in Sicilian, is "Troppu trafficu pi nnenti" which translates "Too much ado about nothing" in English. Strange enough, the Shakespearean play is set in Messina (Sicily), too, Michelangelo's birthplace.

There are so many coincidences, too many to be listed, but it's incredible to note that Shakespeare was known to attend a club in London, but his name never appears in the registers, while, Michelangelo Florio does.

The family, after fleeing Sicily because of the Inquisition (they were Calvinists) went to live in northern Italy, in a house, Ca' Otello (there exist documents about this) , that belonged to a moor mercenary who had served in the Venetian Army and was said to have murdered his wife, Desdemona, for misplaced jealousy.

There's also a 16-year-old Giulietta who committed suicide for him in Verona; even in this case there are documents. After the girl's death, Michelangelo was accused to have murdered her, so he fled to Stratford where a branch of the family lived. Incredible to say, but if you translate Crollalanza in English, you just get Shakespeare.

The amazing knowledge of Italy that Shakespeare shows in his works can only support this theory.

I read a lot of material in Italian and one of the things that blew my mind is that Michelangelo was an enfant prodige when he studied under the Franciscans in Messina and also proved to be an excellent student at the university of Padua (Padua is only second to Bologna in Italy) where he met Giordano Bruno and Galileo Galilei. It seems that Bruno himself wrote a letter of presentation for him to the Count of Pembroke and to the Count of Southampton to protect the young Michelangelo from the Inquisition that was on his trail.

The theory of Michelangelo Florio Crollalanza is really logical and real, but it will remain a theory, I guess, just for its inconvenience.

An article of The Times:

http://www.endex.com/gf/shkspr/shlt040800.htm

It sounds nonsense to me that Shakespeare acquired the knowledge he had of Italy just eating in Italian restaurants in London, really.

VittorioSorry, it seems that the place where that article was posted has disappeared...

[Taurean]

If you examine Shakespeare's signature it's difficult to imagine that he wrote for a living.

It looks quite a laboured attempt to put pen to paper.

[Lancelot]

A monument to Shakespeare depicting several figures exists in Westminster Abbey designed by Alexander Pope which was erected in 1741 and contains a strange cipher (hidden code/message).
It contains a series of verses from The Tempest but has some spelling mistakes, missing letters and letters in the wrong place, very strange (and quite offensive) for a monument to the greatest and most prolific writer who ever lived.

The cypher spells the name of Francis Bacon and the whole monument is littered with links to Freemasonry.

Alfred Dodd a Freemason, suggests that :

"....the Abbey authorities knew the secret when they allowed the monument to be erected, for the stockings are graced with the head of Francis Bacon, the stockings are engraved with Tudor Roses and a crown, and the lace work on the ruffs of the sleeves is an exact representation of the ruff worn by Queen Elizabeth. Between his feet are the Sonnet initials T.T., referring to Masonry (Thirty-Third Degree) The place of honour in front is given to a beautiful youth, a crowned Prince, young Francis Bacon of the Hilyard Miniature. On the left is the figure of the Queen's second son, the Earl of Essex, or the Queen's husband, the Earl of Leicester. The Hilyard Miniature of Francis Bacon as a youth of eighteen appears in the Queen's own prayer book.

Think that the Abbey authorities would have allowed all this apparently meaningless foolery if they had not known to whom the Shakespeare Monument was actually being erected--Lord St. Alban, a Prince of the House of Tudor? Not likely.....The High Dignitaries knew the truth as the State Secret. And it is known today in the Highest Quarters. The time is now ripe when the inscription on Francis Bacon's tombstone must be made manifest...."Let compounds dissolve."

link- http://www.sirbacon.org/gallery/west.htm

[araucaria]

We’ve had quite a few threads on this subject lately.

The one issue with the Baconian theory that I have not seen addressed is the fact that Bacon has an extensive bibliography of his own. It is like saying Haydn composed the works of Mozart in addition to his own. Some works by Mozart are allegedly not composed by Wolfgang. This is possible, for he composed an incredible amount in his short lifetime. So there is no way his entire catalogue could be attributed to another single active composer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bacon_bibliography

[sirdipswitch]

Shalespeare was Ol Franks offering to the Massonic elders, for his attainment to the 33 degree, just as ol Zacks work was his offering, for the same purpose, just as orchastrating the loss of Pearl Harbor was for ol Frank Delano. If y'all understood TPTB and how freemasonry works, y'all might understand History a bit better.

The Elders don't take their 33 degree lightly... takes a fair bit of "Hoodwinkery" to attain.:wizard:

[Lancelot]

We’ve had quite a few threads on this subject lately.

The one issue with the Baconian theory that I have not seen addressed is the fact that Bacon has an extensive bibliography of his own. It is like saying Haydn composed the works of Mozart in addition to his own. Some works by Mozart are allegedly not composed by Wolfgang. This is possible, for he composed an incredible amount in his short lifetime. So there is no way his entire catalogue could be attributed to another single active composer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bacon_bibliography

Perhaps Bacon didn't write ALL of the plays and sonnets attributed to Shakespeare, he merely oversaw the whole operation, incorporating and editing a variety of writers under the same pseudonym. It has always amazed me the sheer number of works attributed to Shakespeare and the fact that he wrote 3 plays set in Italy which include an amazing knowledge of Italian lifestyle, language and customs without him ever having been to Italy. It is well known that another play write of the time, Marlowe did indeed spend some time in Italy and would appear to be the author of the Italian plays attributed to Shakespeare.

[sigma6]

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[Lancelot]

A quote from one of Italian plays Romeo and Juliet would appear to hint at the irrelevancy of authorship attributed to 'a name'


"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."

Sources from William Shakespeare’s lifetime show his last name being spelled in lots of different ways, strange for someone whose craft was writing. In the handful of signatures that have survived, the Bard never spelled his own name “William Shakespeare,” using variations or abbreviations such as “Willm Shakp,” “Willm Shakspere” and “William Shakspeare” instead. Perhaps each spelling was code to identify the writer, that is not to say Shakespeare didn't write at least some of the plays attributed to him.

Another point overlooked is the clue in the name itself -

Snake Spear

ie a snake coiled around a spear.

We know how much the secret societies like their symbolism and plays on words!

[TargeT]

Thats what this debate is about. Sir Francis Bacon, a member of the elites must have wrote it as he isn't an ordinary man........right.

no one is "ordinary" the "norm" is just an average, which means there ARE people at both ends of the scale.....

This is just basic logic.

Now the "elites" are often taught certain things that are commonly withheld from the populaces at large... if you mix these two things together you can get a Sir Francis Bacon.