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regnak
24th October 2014, 17:05
has the earth tilted on its axis

native people speaking of the change in tilt of earth axis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg2F72hSLMw


The sun rises two days early in Greenland

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1346936/The-sun-rises-days-early-Greenland-sparking-fears-climate-change-accelerating.html

ghostrider
24th October 2014, 17:31
The Japan quake they say did affect the tilt of the Earth ... I pretty sure all the actions of humanity is affecting our world in ways we have yet to discover ... overpopulation , huge concrete structures close together , and all the digging for minerals , tunnels , it all has to come back full circle ... We noticed in our area in the winter time , the sun rises in the far north , then at sunset it moves back north , funny it has a low path towards the south during the day ...

Bill Ryan
24th October 2014, 17:33
-------

Hi there — stepping in here, gently. :)

The Daily Mail article was dated 14 January 2011. More than three and a half years ago. It's a non-item.

If the Earth's axis was really tilting, even a very tiny amount, tens of thousands of amateur astronomers, controlled by no-one, would be screaming from the rooftops — because the stars in their computer-star-map-guided telescopes would not be pointing in the right direction.

But everything in the world of telescope astronomy is totally normal. :)




The Japan quake they say did affect the tilt of the Earth

By just a few centimeters. That's literally an infinitesimal number of degrees, in terms of angle.

Sstarss
24th October 2014, 18:06
:)


If the Earth's axis was really tilting, even a very tiny amount, tens of thousands of amateur astronomers, controlled by no-one, would be screaming from the rooftops — because the stars in their computer-star-map-guided telescopes would not be pointing in the right direction.

But everything in the world of telescope astronomy is totally normal. :)



Correct.......for now.

sirdipswitch
24th October 2014, 20:47
I agree with the Inuit. Somethin ain't right... and I been sayin it for more than two years now. I been takin my dog out for 12 years now and watchin all those cool stars at night, and suddenly about two or three years ago they all changed. The North Star, (Polaris) is about 10 degrees higher than it used to wuz. yep. Bout the same as the Inuit say. Sun ain't commin up and goin down right either. And I stopped tryin to count how many people whose comments I've read on youtube that can't use their computer programs on their new telescope, cuz they can't find nothin withem. Didn't y'all notice how High that ol Sun was at the summer solstice? When ya had to look straight up to see it? I used to wonder when I was just a little twerp, why they called it "Straight up" 12 oclock, when in fact it wasn't even close to bein "Straight up". I wouldn't wonder that if I wuz just a little twerp today, cuz it is purddy close to bein "Straight Up"! AND, doncha notice how much of an angle the Sun comes up and goes back down with? Yep. It don't come straight up and over any longer, but just sort of slides across the horizon as it does so, and then goes around on a much wider arc than it used to. When the Sun goes down, (nah, you don't have to get up real early and watch it come up.) chickle chuckle. watch how far it "Slides" across the horizon, before dropping below it. And then the twilight lasts a very long time also, because that Sun ain't dropping, but sliding down.

And as for all them people that know this stuff tellin me verything is ok? Ya well I been lied to before. And me and those Inuit and those dummies on utube that don't know how to work a telescope, know what we been seein. And it ain't right.

13th Warrior
24th October 2014, 21:11
It amazes me how how easy it is fool some people.

This Inuit video may as well be titled something like "Hitler Finds Out the Earth has Moved It's Axis".

Because we all know you can't just put what ever caption you want on a piece of tape right?

DeDukshyn
24th October 2014, 22:58
-------

Hi there — stepping in here, gently. :)

The Daily Mail article was dated 14 January 2011. More than three and a half years ago. It's a non-item.

If the Earth's axis was really tilting, even a very tiny amount, tens of thousands of amateur astronomers, controlled by no-one, would be screaming from the rooftops — because the stars in their computer-star-map-guided telescopes would not be pointing in the right direction.

But everything in the world of telescope astronomy is totally normal. :)




Aren't telescopes calibrated to the stars? Not that I think the earth has titled any real noticeable amount, but I just thought any fine calibration is relative to the stars, not the Earth. I never used any really huge telescopes before, so I don't know if they differ, but with the hobby scopes - even with the ones with electronic controls all your aligning is done with the stars only. If the earth tilted 3 degrees, I don't think I would notice that, I would just have to re-align it slightly, which might be par for the course (especially ones that move or not 100% rock stable - those have to be re-aligned every use).

But I am sure GPS's would end up inaccurate at certain points on the globe with only a few degree shift.

DeDukshyn
24th October 2014, 23:01
It amazes me how how easy it is fool some people.

This Inuit video may as well be titled something like "Hitler Finds Out the Earth has Moved It's Axis".

Because we all know you can't just put what ever caption you want on a piece of tape right?


That's what I thought when I first watched that years ago. They could be talking about anything.

Hervé
24th October 2014, 23:33
[...]
Aren't telescopes calibrated to the stars?
[...]

I may be wrong but telescopes are aimed toward a direction in space by right ascension and declination... earth frame of reference coordinates... to find a star at a specific time of the night... shift that frame of reference a little and the aim is so far out that it's not even in the same sector...

Remember that thread: The Sun Of Late (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?47798-The-Sun-Of-Late&p=528648&viewfull=1#post528648) ... same problem... same conclusion!

DeDukshyn
25th October 2014, 00:08
[...]
Aren't telescopes calibrated to the stars?
[...]

I may be wrong but telescopes are aimed toward a direction in space by right ascension and declination... earth frame of reference coordinates... to find a star at a specific time of the night... shift that frame of reference a little and the aim is so far out that it's not even in the same sector...

Remember that thread: The Sun Of Late (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?47798-The-Sun-Of-Late&p=528648&viewfull=1#post528648) ... same problem... same conclusion!

I am not doubting the overall conclusion as I mentioned in the above post, I did the computer simulation on that thread, remember? ;)

I am looking at the instruction for aligning my telescope - there is no references except the stars themselves. I don't have a proper EM, but you would align the mount so that the north star, is the center of your rotation of axis, from there everything is relative. Once you align to the north star, no tilt of the earth makes any difference - this is what you calibrate to and from there you can find anything.

I don't have a whole ton of telescope experience, but I do have some, and until someone actually shows me how I am wrong, I do believe I am correct.

Here's a tutorial on setting up and calibrating an equatorial mount for a telescope.
plx6XXDgf2E If one were to follow this guide, I don't see how a few degrees tilt would make any difference, as you always have to subjectively align to the North star -- wherever that is in the sky, and from there, everything is relative star to star along the already set up rotation axes that you set the scope to.

The only exceptions I can see are the really giant massive scopes, as I alluded to earlier, that are ment to be aligned once, and locked down forever, but, due to all kinds of variables, re-calibration is something that will need to be done occasionally anyway. If all scopes needed to be re-calibrated at once, that would be telling - as long as everyone knew that everyone else was also having to re-calibrate their scopes.

For hobby scopes, no one would notice a few degree tilt, methinks.

sirdipswitch
25th October 2014, 03:05
Hey Dedukshyn!!!

Great video! It shows exactly what I was talking about. This looks to me like an "old" instruction video, becaise it shows where the Norht Star, (Polaris) used to be. And also notice how the Big Dipper, comes from below the horizon up around the right side of the North Star. It takes the Big Dipper one full year to go all the way around it. See where the NS is in this vid, in relation to the Horizon? It is no longer there. It is much Higher in the sky. It is above the Top of this video now. And the Big Dipper, does not go below the horizon any longer. This portion starts at 6:23.

Oouthere
25th October 2014, 03:37
Does your GPS road map (Garmin/TomTom) work? If so, the earth has not shifted.

DeDukshyn
25th October 2014, 03:45
Hey Dedukshyn!!!

Great video! It shows exactly what I was talking about. This looks to me like an "old" instruction video, becaise it shows where the Norht Star, (Polaris) used to be. And also notice how the Big Dipper, comes from below the horizon up around the right side of the North Star. It takes the Big Dipper one full year to go all the way around it. See where the NS is in this vid, in relation to the Horizon? It is no longer there. It is much Higher in the sky. It is above the Top of this video now. And the Big Dipper, does not go below the horizon any longer. This portion starts at 6:23.

Well, there is seasons that are going to affect where Polaris is - I am sure it changes a lot based on seasons (and then possibly precession but likely no change from that, if it happens, actually is perceivable). I don't have enough inputs right now to confirm or deny what you are saying, I am just thinking that the average amateur astronomer, depending on the equipment they had to work with, may not notice a slow or small shift in axis. But I still haven't seen any really good evidence it is happening either -- the three day change in Iceland's shortest day has been the most intriguing to me.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Does your GPS road map (Garmin/TomTom) work? If so, the earth has not shifted.

It would depend on were you were, but in large parts of the world, I'd suspect GPS would be way out.

Hervé
25th October 2014, 10:27
[...]
I am looking at the instruction for aligning my telescope - there is no references except the stars themselves. [...]

I see... the reason it's called an equatorial mount is because the rotation axis is set so as to be perpendicular to Earth's equatorial plane (the latitude angle setting) and therefore parallel/collinear with earth rotation axis which happens to be best approximated by locating Polaris:


An equatorial mount (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equatorial_mount) is a mount for instruments that follows the rotation of the sky (celestial sphere (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_sphere)) by having one rotational axis parallel to the Earth's axis of rotation.

Equatorial mounts differ from mechanically simpler altazimuth mounts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altazimuth_mount), which require variable speed motion around both axes to track a fixed object in the sky. Also, for astrophotography (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrophotography), the image does not rotate in the focal plane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focal_plane), as occurs with altazimuth mounts when they are guided to track the target's motion, unless a rotating erector prism or other field-derotator is installed.
So, all that North Star stuff is to calibrate the telescope rotating plates parallel and perpendicular to Earth's equator... reference frame is Earth and her rotation axis perpendicular to her equatorial plane... make sense?

Indeed, a slight difference in tilt wouldn't be much detectable with low power telescopes... however, all the amateur astronomers relying on astrophotogaphy to discover comets and asteroids would start scratching their head when realizing that someone kicked their telescopes hard, overnight and worldwide... :)

araucaria
25th October 2014, 10:48
Does your GPS road map (Garmin/TomTom) work? If so, the earth has not shifted.
Well actually, if you put it like that, my Garmin did something very strange the other day. It showed me my destination down by the harbour, then dropped me a mile away in town at a totally different address.

I guess the earth HAS shifted.

Just kidding... but whatever happened to my GPS? :)

Ahnung-quay
25th October 2014, 12:14
Satellites can also be adjusted, no? Maybe they automatically correct?

I am a believer that the earth's magnetic poles have been shifting causing the earth to be in different alignment with the solar system and the stars. This is from my observation of the angle of the sun rise to the horizon over the last forty years.

I'm with sirdipswitch.

truth4me
25th October 2014, 13:00
It seems like some people just want doom. I don't think we are leaving here that easy...

observer
25th October 2014, 14:08
The confusion may be due to the magnetic shifting of the poles. The polar axis of the planet, known as the North Pole, is not the same thing as the Magnetic North Pole.

Although we are aware the axis of the Earth has shifted only a few centimeters, the Magnetic Pole has been shifting enough to cause a nationwide renumbering of airport runways. This is an ongoing project orchestrated by the Federal Aviation Administration, and doesn't necessarily effect all airport runways.

From The San Jose Mercury New:
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_24613702/earths-magnetic-shift-causes-first-change-runway-numbers

From PSYS.ORG:

"The magnetic north pole is always slowly moving and is currently heading towards Russia from its current position in far northern Canada. The magnetic north pole moves by around 64 km (40 miles) a year because of changes within the Earth’s core (unlike the true north pole which moves very slowly due to tectonic plate movements). It has moved from extremes of around 10 degrees east in the late 16th century to 25 degrees west early in the 19th century, and is now at around 3 degrees west. The north and south magnetic poles can also switch places, and this last happened about 780,000 years ago."
Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2011-01-tampa-airport-runways-renumbered-due.html#jCp
http://phys.org/news/2011-01-tampa-airport-runways-renumbered-due.html

The Magnetic Shift has no relationship to the day the sun rises in the northern most latitudes on the planet. This phenomenon has been explained most accurately by the melting of the ice caps. Just a few meters of ice melt will effect the horizon at these extremely acute angles.

Snowflower
25th October 2014, 14:33
As I get older, I'm learning to trust myself more. The sun is in a different place. It comes over the mountain every morning, taking into account Equinox to Solstice etc., in a different location than it did from this same spot when I was young. It used to have a yellow hue. Now it is white hot. These two things I know, from my own observation that I trust. I don't know why, I don't know what's next, I don't know consequences. But I do know these two things.

13th Warrior
25th October 2014, 17:05
If indeed the Earth has shifted it's axis enough to show a visible change in sun location then all of the worlds stone calendars and monuments will no longer be in alignment. I have seen no evidence to suggest this.

Just one example: hundreds of people travel to Chichen Itza to watch the serpent descend during the equinoxes and i can find no report of this no longer occurring.

Violet
25th October 2014, 19:39
From the OP, the second article's last paragraph says:


He said as the ice sinks, so to does the horizon, creating the illusion that the sun has risen early.

Kari Lynn
25th October 2014, 19:43
As I see it, the world tilts on it's axis every year. Winter, spring, summer, fall and back to winter. lol ;)

Nick Matkin
25th October 2014, 21:19
Why does this keep coming up?

All sorts of things would be wrong if the Earth's rotational axis shifted. My sun dial for a start. The sun/moon sunset/sunrise times too - even a fraction of a second would soon be picked up by astronomers. And navigational satellites! This is all just silly.

So all those who say they can see changes in your location, sorry. You're just plain mistaken. You must be. The stars or sun cannot change position (other than predictable annual seasonal changes which we all surely notice) in just a few locations. They just can't.

If you STILL don't believe me, just look up Manhattanhenge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattanhenge)for goodness sake. Every 28 May and 12 July - for decades. How's that faked? :frusty:

Nick

Wind
25th October 2014, 23:25
It used to have a yellow hue. Now it is white hot. These two things I know, from my own observation that I trust. I don't know why, I don't know what's next, I don't know consequences. But I do know these two things.

The Sun's power has been weakening (much less solar irradiance (http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/originals/grand_minimum.pdf)) and so is our magnetic field, I would be surprised if people didn't notice the changes. Which will be severe, regarding the weather in the years to come.