My Theory on God

[The One]

Some will agree some wont thats what its all about

From
http://revleft.com/vb/can-there-definitive-t5581/index.html?


Yep, there is no God, and there never has been a God, and *this is a summation of the rationales contained within Heresies on God and Freedom which prove definitively that there is no God.
There is no word in the English language which means something than can never exist. *Something that is non-existent or intangible can become existent or tangible at a later date. *So it is perfectly acceptable to invent the neo-logism of non-tangible to describe that which can never be proved.
There are some non-tangibles, since say we see an animal in pain, we will never know the exact feelings of pain the animal possesses, because it cannot communicate the depth of the pain. *We can only empathise, and a case can be made that it is not much different for humans too, but concentrate on the animals, this is a non-tangible, but it is not a complete non-tangible.
We know the species of animal and in fact we know the singular animal, so the non-tangible is attached to a being which has an established *existence. *However, what of a being which has no established existence, that has not been proven *empirically to exist?
This of course seems a complete non-tangible, and this seems the beauty of the concept of God, because whilst believer's do not need to prove God exists it is assumed that the supposed complete non-tangibility makes the concept of God impregnable.
Is God a complete non-tangible? *Nope, for one thing every attribute you give to God is just the other of a human *attribute, invisible other than visible, all-powerful other than finite power, perfect other than imperfect, infinitely good other than our finite goodness, immortal other than our mortality and so on. *Instead of giving God physical attributes, you have merely supplanted them with the other of human attributes. *God is ultimately the otherness of your own image, and it can be added that all *these attributes you hinge to God are pure speculation. *You can add or remove them depending upon your religion. *If all is speculation, it is pure invention, since my guess is as good as the next persons. *Take away the attributes and your left with quite an empty abstract concept.
Not quite empty yet though. *Why did people invent Gods. *Quite simply they had no answer to what created themselves and nature. *The elements earth, fire, thunder, etc, were seen as powerful forces, and each was seen as a power with its own identity. *The deification was the deification of this identified power.
You see, there were no answers, no science to provide answers, so what was there as an answer; nothingness. *We created gods due to our lack of knowledge. *Gods filled in the vacuum. *We invented the concept of God as otherness to nothingness. *Now, here's the rub. *Something cannot come from nothing.
Furthermore, although some concepts can be used in predicates to describe a subject, this is not the case with God. *God can only be a subject.
It was Leibniz who noted that "every predicate is the notion of the subject". *
Kant believed that existence could not be used in a predicate as its notion or determinant, thus for him, the latter proves the existence of God, because it suggests, that as soon as you mention God, *the subect contains the being of God, but this falls in the same way, that previous ontological arguments failed, and that is becaue the premise is wrongly derived. *As *soon as you state anything exists you are describing the fact that it possesses life, thus Kant was in deep error. *If you say some one is a God unless you are transported back to the times of the Pharaohs all you are doing is using a metaphor to say they are outstanding, you are not actually worshipping the person as a supernatural phenomenon, and even if you were this person would be your God, just a form of God like all the rest.
Because God, *can only be a subject and not the determinant of the predicate, we can put it with all the other abstract concepts which only can be subjects, all mytholgical creatures, all spiritual beings and even the spiritual soul. *The latter is attached to a tangible being, but it leaves upon death and inherently there is a separation between the soul and the mortal body. *It is still a similar abstraction and soulless just really describes a spiritless person or even cultural form. *The religious ideologies are consistent. *No one is soulless, after death it is decided where your soul goes.
All abstract concepts which can only be subjects are sheer inventions and the use of the metaphor cannot get around this fact. The metaphor is just replaces one universal meaning with another. Thus if you exclaim "God!" for whatever metaphorical reason, that exclamation is rooted in the reason. *It means exactly, what you mean.
You might argue "okay we do not know the exact attributes of God, okay these tribes invented Gods, but we have a more advanced understanding of God, and that is the nature of historical development." * However, it does *not wash. *You have to ask yourself where did you get the concept of God from, and if it is not from the ancients, you have just invented the concept out of nothingness.
You might say, *"All this logic means nothing. *I believe in the God from the heart and all my faith is based upon this God from the heart spiritual feeling, which is unshakeable." *But we are still not answering the question. *Where does the concept of God come from? *How can we have faith in invention that stems from nothingness, and if all objectivity is to go out of the window, how the hell do we know that our blind faith in God is not an evil in it

[worldruler]

hey i didnt read it all but i am going to blurt .
truth is only momentary , there is no such thing as truth really . possibly a momentary agreement . and then all things move on .
as you are the one and yes if we agree we are all one momentarily then we are all things and yes you , we are evil as we are light .
choose and choose and choose , i am god i am dirt i am the world ruler i am a guided , i am listening , i am the creator ,of this endless experience
maybe god just means for the greater good of all things .
you are the one tell me
or maybe god means **** you , you will do what i say or I will belittle you even more
wow look at that
time to go and contemplate my navel bye

[The One]

From
http://revleft.com/vb/can-there-definitive-t5581/index.html?


A few points first no arguments were really answered. *If there is circularity in the rationales, you have to show the circularity. *
*Secondly, the fact that billions of people believe in God, does not make God a valid concept. *If so we would all be flat-Earthers, because that was the commonly held belief for centuries, as was the idea that the Earth was the centre of our solar system. *Gallileo, had to recant. *
* Thirdly all peoples beliefs are based soley upon belief. *It is still blind faith. *
* *As for God giving human their attributes, you have not seen your own circularity of thought, and unlike you, I will tell you exactly what it is. *You see you are still saying God gave humans other than his own attributes, so we do not possess the attributes of God. *How do we know *he has all these attributes, because we are natural, these are our understandings of what is supranatural, and every "supra" bit is still attached to the otherness of a quantifiable human attribute.
I am not seventy, I am 37, and as for the quote that all that some knows is that God exists, all someone else knew was there is a flat Earth.
The Judeo-Christian image of God is a bit irrelevant. *The first monotheist was Xenophanes four hundred or so years before Jesus Christ was born, and for Xenophanes if animals could make an image of God, they would do so in *their own images, so Xenophanes had no time for attaching human attributes to God, because he knew it was pure speculation.
*All the later monotheists did was replace the physical attributes of previous Gods with supranatural attributes, *and if you do your research you will find all of these attributes were possessed collectively by earlier Gods.

Finally,Worldruler.Think upon this all-powerful, all knowing God is a witness to human development, God sees genocide, sees murder, paeodophilia, infanticide, rape suicide etc, and does nothing. *The indifference to our suffering makes him/her it the most evil person ever. *No mitigation. *If you have the plan if you see all the suffering, if you are the creator of the plan, moving in mysterious ways does not get you off the hook. *Objectively, you are scum. *You could have created a Heaven on Earth. *Think that one out.

[worldruler]

interesting you say because earth is my heaven and I love my existance i love and except my child and am filled with nothing but aw as i watch over them as a guide and helper .
in amazemnt as I watch vegies and flowers grow . the sound of creatures russling around me as i sleep in the desert . the cool as it penetrates my covers and i squize tighter to keep my warmth until the sun rises and warms me once more . or is it that you would like to suffer because you do

[worldruler]

life is an experience , learn from it and move on . or dwell on stories and suffer . a choice if you believe that choice exists .
so you think what your read is accurate information . and what you believe is logical and correct . I would say you are trying to work out what you dont understand , looking to blame someone and something for what you see as injustice . what if planet earth is just an experiment , to produce high quality godman and the experiment has come to the end . through the experience of suffering we can truely appreciate life for what ever it is

¤=[Post Update]=¤

as for all knowing , my reply is four four and there is so much more . these are exciting times lets get into it .
happy bday to me

[The One]

Hey worldruler happy birthday and sorry for the long post

From
http://www.rense.com/general87/explan.htm


Imagine for a moment, that you are the master of an R-Sim generated world. If your race is that advanced, it wouldn’t use a computer as we know it to control it. You and your race have been running this R-Sim for countless millennia as an on-going experiment. In this world you have created planets, stars, a local Sun for the one planet with intelligent life along millions of diverse life-forms including numerous insects and plants. Some life-forms are highly intelligent (known as humans) while others in the R-Sim are not so intelligent. Your and your ancestors that created the R-Sim gave each animal just enough intelligence for it to survive and no more, and the simulation has been running for countless millennia. Those that created it are long dead.
Now things are getting quite boring and mundane, while the humans on the planet are increasing in their capabilities. You might decide to stir up some unexpected events and phenomena on the one planet with life (Earth.) Only the humans would take notice of strange events. Other animals and life-forms don’t really care what you do, since they are not capable of thinking on higher levels. You might create strange life-forms and events like big foot, Yeti, crop circles, ghosts, miracles and UFOs to see how the humans will react, then sit back and watch what happens.
When pilots and astronauts are tested in full motion simulation cockpits, trainers and examiners cause simulated system failures in one or more systems to see how the emergency is handled. Pilots and astronauts have noted that these simulations are so real that they began to sweat and can even feel fear which they must control. When a computer-controlled simulation is well designed and life-like, this is what happens.
Cockpit and other simulations force a controlled reality upon test subjects. Some years ago at an amusement park, I was standing inside 180 degree projection dome theatre holding on to a railing while watching an action film. We were near the back of the room watching a speeding hair-raising motorcycle chase as it wound through the narrow twisting streets of an alpine village. The audience was swaying back and forth during the film as their personal visual system was overwhelmed. The flood of information quickly takes over the brain, influencing body movements as though the audience itself is riding in the motorcycle.
If you are charged with running the R-Sim, from time to time your race abducts a cross section of human beings for testing during their sleep. Memory is usually wiped out to prevent disturbing their waking lives, even though a vivid memory of the event is stored in the abductee’s memory. Humans will assume your workers (i.e., data collectors) are from another planet or galaxy, or even from Earth’s future. Humans must be allowed to believe what they want for the testing and science work to be as accurate as possible.
Some have boldly called Earth a “Grand Experiment” but it’s much more than that.
What we perceive as reality through the R-Sim can only use our five senses. The processed combination of these senses by the brain helps us assess what our minds decide is real and what is not. If we view a 3D movie which projects objects and people right in front of our face, without lifting a finger we already know that we can put our hand through the 3D projection and feel nothing. We assume that the projected light itself is real, but accept that the object we see is only an illusion.

Yet we continue to believe observations of fleeing objects like ghosts must be absolutely real. But does this simple test categorically prove ghosts do not exist? Of course not.
So far in our exploration, we’ve seen that there are phenomena seen worldwide by thousands of people which defy a rational explanation. Yet they still take place nevertheless. We also know our perception of reality is easily tinkered with and altered by skilled human artists and software engineers who design flight simulators.
Now imagine what a race of beings who have technology a billion years ahead of us can do! We think Playstations and other advanced game technology are impressive – but try to imagine the complexity of a simulation the size our solar system running down at the molecular level. To highly advanced beings, Playstation and other on-line games we have today are like little children playing with jacks and marbles. They probably chuckle at us.
Now consider that we are here, inside the R-Sim. Consider that we are just small components of an immensely HUGE, complex R-Sim. Creation of this R-Sim has given us the only reality we can possibly know for now. Can we even imagine the “home” environment of a race of beings a billion years ahead of us? Perhaps to them there is no longer any place like home. Several thousand years ago, humans lived in caves. They had no concept of high rise apartment buildings or farm houses. Just two hundred years ago, could George Washington have imagined life aboard the space station? Without a frame of reference, no human being can even remotely imagine this far into the future.
Countless aquatic sea creatures live in the very deepest part of the ocean * the Marianas Trench. At 36,201 feet deep, pressures reach 9,000 tons/square inch according to those who went down into the trench using the deep sea submersible Trieste. Yet sea creatures were filmed at the deepest part of the ocean glow with light they generate themselves.

Jelly fish in the Marianas Trench [3]
These creatures can thrive there because this is the only environment they know and were born there. Since the pressures inside the fish are the same as those outside, they do not feel any pressure and are not crushed. This is their world we have visited. These creatures quickly die when brought to the surface as cells burst inside their bodies.
If a deep sea submersible sub did not bring these creatures to the surface for research, they would live out their normal life span on the ocean bottom. We too, are something like these deep sea creatures. Our lives start with the paradigm we are born into. The majority of people on Earth will die, living out their lives within the same paradigm they were raised with.
Consider billions of people in the world’s under-developed countries. Unfortunately, this is the life they are born into and most likely will die there. Relatively few people will escape this fate. Even in developed western countries, people born in the middle class usually die in the middle class, save a few who do well in life and go higher. The same is true for both lower and upper classes as well. We truly are creatures of habit, not all that unlike the very pets we keep. This is the Earth paradigm. The only known life-forms on Earth that have the potential to escape the paradigm they are born into are human beings.
In the section a few pages back “common threads” we noted that there are known, observable common observations for all of the “paranormal” phenomena, whether or not we choose to accept them as real. If the watchers and keepers of our R-Sim decide to test us by throwing us a wringer to see how we’ll react, we have little choice but to react. Even no reaction or expressing disbelief of paranormal events still creates a test result. Hence, the logical conclusion is that there will always be some type of reaction.
Perhaps even bleeding statues or other stigmata (if these actually exist) may be just another manifestation of the R-Sim. These strange events may be designed by the controllers for their entertainment, to further human belief in God or simply to see how people will react. Even the presence of alien life-forms may not be what we perceive it to be * they could be nothing more than another test created for the R-Sim injected into our reality.
Another curious observation points to how Earth has not been hit with a devastating asteroid impact in many thousands of years. This fact flies in the face of about 20,000 known objects flying about our solar system, each with unique and complex orbits. Approximately 1,068 potentially hazardous asteroids (as of this writing) have been catalogued and document having orbital paths that either have crossed Earth’s orbit, or will be. Yet somehow to date, none of these massive objects have hit the Earth. Some of these objects which have passed by Earth in recent years are closer than our Moon’s orbit.
Yet no one asks the most obvious question * why haven’t we been hit by at least one of these killer objects? Did someone prevent it? If so, who are they?
Either we are just incredibly lucky, or someone or something is out there protecting our little rock. There is also a third explanation even more disturbing * that these objects may not exist. Even though they are visible by telescope or on deep space radar, how can we actually know they really exist? We cannot. When we sent out a spacecraft and landed it on an asteroid, how can we prove that actually happened? There is no way to do so. Many science and space fans yell “We received pictures and data from the spacecraft! It must have landed without any doubt!” Yet that proves nothing.
It becomes a difficult question to produce hard physical evidence we are in a simulation. Even if our best computer scientists were given a copy of the R-Sim source code we would not be advanced enough to read even the first line of code. As humans inside R-Sim we are given only have access to the tools we’re allowed to have by the masters of R-Sim and nothing more. If our capabilities were allowed to be greater, we might alter the R-Sim itself creating a disaster in our reality we could never, ever predict happening. And we could never correct the mistake in time.
The theory of operation behind a popular phenomenon known as “The Secret” states that we can change the “thinking stuff” in the universe by how we think. And with it, completely change every aspect of our lives. That is exactly what the creators of the secret call it.
However, although I have tested the power of altering my own reality and found that it does work, I do not think that there exists “thinking stuff” that we can change. Instead, you are actually changing the performance parameters of your simulation in the R-Sim. Assuming the R-Sim exists, this theory makes perfect sense.
Here are a few of the unanswered questions
Will we ever be told the truth of R-Sim? If so, could we handle it as a race? Such knowledge would create a deep shock wave to our self-esteem as a human race, comparable to someone learning their brother is also their father.
How will the future of humankind be affected? Will society fall apart? Christian churches would probably shut their doors almost immediately as people dropped out of churches everywhere, since it would cast serious doubt on the concept of eternal life.
What will the controllers of the R-Sim do with us after telling us? Press the reset button and start over? Perhaps this is what 2012 is all about. Maybe the Mayans were told by the controllers that 2012 is the year our program is terminated. Since ancient Mayans couldn’t understand the concept of R-Sim, perhaps it was simply called “The end of time.” Which if the R-Sim is true, it just might be the end of time for us.

Would our human race scattered all over Earth even believe the R-Sim is real? Pride and vanity could prove to be far more powerful obstacles than learning the real truth about our simulated reality. Of course, this is all just a theory to support observed phenomena seen by countless people, so don’t toss out your crosses and rosaries just yet i guess thats the beauty about us humans there are endless possibilities.

[ponda]

Hi The One,


I'm not going to debate your opinion of God.I'll give you my current perspective of what one possibility might be.At the moment i think that God exists.i think that God is everything that we perceive to exist...the computer that you are looking at,the chair you are sitting on,you,me,our consciousness,all of the universe etc etc.i think that everything that exists including other dimensions,timelines etc are just one small aspect of God.i would imagine that if/when we are to ascend then we would have a much more enhanced perceptual ability with which to contemplate God.i suspect that from our small and limited perspective it is difficult to get much of a grasp as to what God really is.i would imagine that the further one might ascend then the more intricate and diverse ones thoughts on God might become and the closer the connection to God might be.

[worldruler]

thankyou ,
I must say , you have brought a great big smile to my face , yes at this moment i am laughing .
tomorrow I am going to sit and read from the beginning and we will most definitely take this yonder .
i am off to bed
enjoy

[Dale]

I feel that God is a presence; a "spiritual emotion."

Manly P. Hall, in one of his last lectures, said something to the extent that "God is a concept so magnificent, so divine, so large; that our tiny, human brains cannot even begin to fathom who God really is."

The best we can do, in my opinion, is look to the world with a perpetual sense of wonder and awe; experiencing that familiar "spiritual emotion."

[Bill Ryan]

Hi, The One:

I edited your three posts above to include the source references for the material that you cross-posted en bloc.

I also did that with one of your posts that I found yesterday.

To you (and everyone reading this), please include clear references for all cross-posted material. The risk is that other members will mistakenly think that you wrote this yourself.

I understand that cross-posting parts of other people's work forms an integral part of intelligent discussion and debate, but my vision for the forum is that I encourage all members to contribute their own original thoughts and experiences. In the context of that, referencing other material is of course necessary and appreciated.

Cheers, Bill

[The One]

Thanks Bill

will do my mistake

[HORIZONS]

I feel that God is a presence; a "spiritual emotion."

Manly P. Hall, in one of his last lectures, said something to the extent that "God is a concept so magnificent, so divine, so large; that our tiny, human brains cannot even begin to fathom who God really is."

The best we can do, in my opinion, is look to the world with a perpetual sense of wonder and awe; experiencing that familiar "spiritual emotion."

Agreed!

My thoughts: It is an impossibility for a finite being to comprehend and understand the Infinite! God will never be "proved" to exist like a science project, just like Love will not be proved - but personally experienced, yes this can be. I think this is why faith plays such an important roll in believing in "God" - But I will add that the concept of God - which is what we all have, a concept - can become more to you than a concept if you are open to allow the Infinite Invisible to reveal aspects of Itself to you - it is then that true faith is born, not blind faith in an unknown, but faith based out of an experience that only the experiencer can fathom. Whatever God is it cannot be labeled and placed in a box and defined as being God, for then surly this is not God but just a concept of God we entertain about God. God is all in all, and cannot be explained with our limited intelligence.

http://web.me.com/expanding_horizons/Expanding_Horizons/TMIT.html

[Zook]

Good morning Horizons, the Earth says hello ...


Agreed!
My thoughts: It is an impossibility for a finite being to comprehend and understand the Infinite!


Exquisitely put.



God will never be "proved" to exist like a science project, just like Love will not be proved - but personally experienced, yes this can be. I think this is why faith plays such an important roll in believing in "God" - But I will add that the concept of God - which is what we all have, a concept - can become more to you than a concept if you are open to allow the Infinite Invisible to reveal aspects of Itself to you - it is then that true faith is born, not blind faith in an unknown, but faith based out of an experience that only the experiencer can fathom. Whatever God is it cannot be labeled and placed in a box and defined as being God, for then surly this is not God but just a concept of God we entertain about God. God is all in all, and cannot be explained with our limited intelligence.

Well stated. I would just add that, for myself, the reference term I use is Creator.

We were all born with vocal cords and and cochlear stalls; but if we were born into an Arab family, we would likely hear and say, Allah. If into a Christian family, God. If into a Hindu Hindi family, Bhagavan. If into a Hindu Telugu family (as I was born), Bhagavanthudu. If into a Jewish family, Yahweh.

For myself, I've taken the ears and voicebox out of the equation and handed the unified concept of infinite goodness, infinite beauty, infinite wisdom, infinite knowledge, infinite kindness, infinite fairness, infinite justice, infinite complexity, infinite power, infinite truth, etc. ... of infinity itself ... to my brain. And my brain, in deference and reference, calls the source of all creation, Creator.

:typing:

[Luke]

Thread closed by request of OP