Is There More Than One Truth?

[bogeyman]

The world at the moment is in turmoil, yet the turmoil is there to clear a path in the greater scheme of things.

Every individual is different, and each see things differently and there maybe a ultimate truth yet each see it differently or interprets it to his/her own understanding....it maybe even beyond all of us since the ultimate truth maybe something larger as to encompass the whole of creation in all its aspects. This of course is from human philosophy and basis upon limited information on a single world for its aspirations and not take account of the countless different life forms in many forms of existence our their in the physical universe and the endless layers it contains.

[Gaia]

Great question :p

The problem is that this definition of truth relates two things that are very different in nature and it is not clear how we can find a correspondence between things that belong to different realms. The statement "Sky is blue" is true in virtue of the fact that sky is, indeed, blue. The statement "my name is Kathleen" is true in virtue of the fact that my name is, indeed, Kathleen. And so forth. There are several problems with this theory of truth. The truth predicate the expression ''is true'' acts as an intermediary between words, language, our mind and the world we are living in.

[Robin]

No, Truth is immutable and constant and there is only one. Anything that isn't fully aligned with Truth is simply perception and deviation. This is the cornerstone to understanding the universe and one's presence inhabiting it, and why humanity is in its decrepit state. It is impeccably important to understand this.

People take differing paths toward the Truth as their personal soul journey, and that is fine! In fact, I encourage it. Even though all paths are leading to the same place, some get there more quickly and efficiently. Some souls choose the path of learning the same lessons over and over again because they refuse to accept that Truth is eternal.

In my opinion, nobody explains this better than Mark Passio:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIEemKcy-4E

[Shezbeth]

Begging your pardon Samwise, but while you are entitled to your opinion/perspective - as is Mark Passio - no matter how compelling a case one makes does not make the perspective objectively true. There are many aspects to Mark Passio that I find to be unsupported by the material/evidence. Individual results may vary, but as does the perspective of truth.

One has to realize the limitations of their perspective in any objective discussion, and failure/unwillingness to do so discredits the individual. Objectively speaking, the most credible response to the inquiry of the OP (according to my perspective) is: 'perhaps'.

I further posit that anyone wishing to perceive more than possibility to a concept as malleable as 'truth' is not really arguing truth, but arguing their preferred perspective. With subjects like truth, there are varying degrees including 'subjective truth', 'objective truth', 'theoretical truth', 'extant/axiomatic truth',... but even those are arrived at through perception of the individual. What is axiomatic to one (take,... religion/spirituality for example) is base nonsense to another.

Is the sky blue? That depends, is one asking a person who is color-blind? Moreover, are we factoring in the effect of atmospheric conditions on the appearance of space? Are there not cases where the sky is purple, orange, etc?

Does 2+2=4? Perhaps, but also doesn't 2+2=1 collective?

It's all a matter of perspective and opinion - no matter the degree of justification or validation - and trying to definitively nail down 'the truth' is largely an exercise in futility, and an attempt to negate differing perspectives. I'm fairly certain I know what Mark Passio would say to this, and I would refer him (and you) to line 2 of my signature.

[birddog]

Hi Bogeyman,

I have to agree with you. Most knowledge is gained from experience, and with what is happening in the world today, and the many false truths out there, where does one turn? My guess is forums like this, where there are people with experience. I believe that is key. I don't claim to know all of the answers, and if I don't know, I will say so, but IMHO we each have something to contribute to connect the dots to total understanding. The truth does not belong one person, IMO, but the sum total of the many. Taking in information from many sources, and valuing every contribution as much as the next, we come closer to the concept of what really is happening. As things are sorted through, false truths fall by the wayside, as logic takes over, and everything starts to make sense.

What is happening now, to us, is that we are in the process of change. We have changed from a planetary community, to a Galactic Community in one lifetime. Most are just 'waking up' to this, and still struggling to believe or not. People are confused and want answers. Everything is rapidly changing, unfortunately faster than most people do, and thus, the reluctance to accept "what really is", rather than what isn't. Some don't want their world to change. Some are fearful, and there are fear mongers out there, making it harder yet, for those don't understand.

If I may share with you something, WE ARE ALL OTHER WORLD BEINGS. To other alien races, we are the aliens. :) To help you, think of an alien as another world
being that might look different from you, make have different culture, manner, speech, and diet. Now, I could be describing a group from another country here on
Earth, but I am not. I am speaking of those of another world. It is all that simple. :)

Most other world beings are good and kindly, like those of Earth. I have been rescued several times by other world beings, while here on Earth. So, you see,
they are not too different from us, although most are more advanced, and some very advanced.

Like humans, though, there are rouge groups that are harmful, and travel from place to place in their ships, ( and btw, they do travel in ships, as that is most
practical to do so.) Jumping is usually reserved for small groups for short excursions. These rogue groups would get caught quickly if they 'hung around' on the planet, or in the "neighborhood" where they were observed breaking the laws, and hurting beings, robbing, and damaging property. There are laws in space, too.

With more advanced beings, aliens of different worlds can work and live together side by side in peace and harmony, as they work with a higher purpose in mind.
It is the highest good for all. I have seen this work, and I know it to be true and I have worked and lived with the Galactic Confederation of Planets. They are
watching us very closely now, and are but a 'call away', as I have called on them before, and they were 'right here' very quickly. They are very peaceful, and
helpful, and watch over us like a big brother.

We are still learning how to have peace with our own kind, and that hasn't come to pass yet, as wars continue. :( Wars are for killing people. We need to value
life more, and settle differences peaceably. How I long for the day where God's perfect peace prevails everywhere. :)

[Buzzie]

I once heard Mark Passio say, "the truth is what actually happened". What is so hard to understand about that? Simply put, the truth cannot be whatever anyone wants it to be. ( unless you reside in Washington D.C.)

[Shezbeth]

Well then, what happened?

Simple statements like the one you indicate are sort-of true, in that they are overly simplified as to avoid contradiction, but they also assume that we as humans can be aware of the full capacity of what happened. In Alchemy, they describe "what happens" as very different than is described in Chemistry; allowing for energy, conscious intent, and a variety of other miniscule factors which the latter finds to be garbage. Which of those is objectively true?

Moreover, there has been recent developments in the observance of the stages of water. It is suggested that there is a fourth phase of water, that is previously unknown to science. If found to be accurate, than all existing 'truth' regarding the substance is nescient in the least and ignorant in the extreme.

Then there's the classic perception that the world was flat. I trust I needn't elaborate on that one.

And no, I'm not suggesting it is spherical either, as AFAIK that theory has been refined as well.

[Deega]

Thanks Bogeyman, here is a few comments on what we like to call "truth", but they are not what you would expect!

That are many different truths that we know, the AIR that sustains life, the WATER that we breath, the EARTH that we live on, the FIRE that cleans, the SUN that keeps us going, NATURAL RESOURCES that feed us, our SOLAR SYSTEM that keep us going on Earth, the thousand of other INTERSTELLAR SYSTEMS that equilibrate life somehow, and you can keep on adding up other TRUTHs that are indispensable to life.

Pertaining to other questions that we don't have yet the truth, we may add, "we don't know where we came from?", "we don't know where we are heading?", "we don't know fully what is waiting us upon death?", and you have other to mention.

On the subtle side, it's all over the place, when we don't know how to explain the unexplainable, we may say that it's God intervention and/or will. When one is caught up with negative events in their life, they may say that it was the devil involvement, and other that you may think.

So, I may have been of target but I feel that these truths are to often forgotten.

The best to everyone.

Our body, our perception, our reality are in constant CHANGE, what we think we know now is outdated the moment after!

[Buzzie]

OK so people once thought the earth was flat. That was never truth no matter how many people said so. The truth is that the earth is more or less round. Pictures have been taken from space and it is round. That is truth. If there are people that perceive it to be flat, that is not truth. That is their perception. Even if the whole universe is a hologram, the earth is a round hologram.

[Shezbeth]

Precisely my point! There have been those who asserted it was flat, and yet it has agreeably said to be not-so (round, spherical, ovum, whatever). What was once asserted (seemingly axiomatically at the time) has been shown incorrect. We can (I hope) agree that the earth is round, and that that perception of 'truth' regarding has been refined. Is it hollow though? Is that not a significant aspect to 'the truth' regarding the planet?

Until we have and grasp the full comprehension of whatever we're talking about, I am suggesting that what we have is not 'truth', just an ever-increasing approximation or simplification of truth. The approximation/simplification is what is derived from perspective (whether individual, group, aggregate, etc.), which includes insufficient detection systems by which to objectively identify 'truth'.

From a particular angle, one could objectively suggest that there is an as-yet undetectable and/or undefiably precise 'truth', but if so I challenge anyone to observe it and iterate it. Until then, like I said; preferred perspectives.

[Omni]

I also think Mark Passio explains it well. There is one universal timeline that could be called what happens or truth, that we are all connected to IMO. So yes, in my view there is one truth. Perception can align with truth but is obviously not always truth.

If one believes in time travel with that theory there could be numerous timelines, so theoretically there could be numerous truths. I personally find time travel most likely a work of fiction so I don't subscribe to those ideas. I think every being in existence is in the present. In other words no time travel.


"the truth is what actually happened".

Well said :)

[Agape]

Remember the moment when you discover circle exists and then you discover it has a centre , then you discover a spiral and so forth ..

there's one within One within ONE and it's all but infinite ONENESS of things but it's infinite so it keeps expanding on both sides ..

then you discover that there's a logical limit to every imagination of any sort and that bounds you down to certain 'reality' of things , the internet as an example .. because your energy exhausts itself and collapses to its less excited state .

Everything forms a circle , then collapses into itself .. it's eternal flip flop between the two truth that are illusory states of energy / matter , dark and light .

Truth is what it is , not what it seems .

[rgray222]

No, Truth is immutable and constant and there is only one. Anything that isn't fully aligned with Truth is simply perception and deviation.


The problem is that many people do not want to believe the truth.

[Robin]

Begging your pardon Samwise, but while you are entitled to your opinion/perspective - as is Mark Passio - no matter how compelling a case one makes does not make the perspective objectively true. There are many aspects to Mark Passio that I find to be unsupported by the material/evidence. Individual results may vary, but as does the perspective of truth.

One has to realize the limitations of their perspective in any objective discussion, and failure/unwillingness to do so discredits the individual. Objectively speaking, the most credible response to the inquiry of the OP (according to my perspective) is: 'perhaps'.

I further posit that anyone wishing to perceive more than possibility to a concept as malleable as 'truth' is not really arguing truth, but arguing their preferred perspective. With subjects like truth, there are varying degrees including 'subjective truth', 'objective truth', 'theoretical truth', 'extant/axiomatic truth',... but even those are arrived at through perception of the individual. What is axiomatic to one (take,... religion/spirituality for example) is base nonsense to another.

Is the sky blue? That depends, is one asking a person who is color-blind? Moreover, are we factoring in the effect of atmospheric conditions on the appearance of space? Are there not cases where the sky is purple, orange, etc?

Does 2+2=4? Perhaps, but also doesn't 2+2=1 collective?

It's all a matter of perspective and opinion - no matter the degree of justification or validation - and trying to definitively nail down 'the truth' is largely an exercise in futility, and an attempt to negate differing perspectives. I'm fairly certain I know what Mark Passio would say to this, and I would refer him (and you) to line 2 of my signature.

I think I understand what you're saying, and I'm definitely aware of your keen observations on this subject from your past posts, which I highly value. I can't speak for Mark, but there really isn't anything that I disagree in your assessment of "Truth." I consider Mark to be a great communicator of these subjects, but by no means do I follow him blindly. The way he expresses these subjects have always been what I have resonated with, but he is just so much better at oratory than me.

I'll use myself as an example to illustrate my point. I consider myself to be knowledgeable about conspiracies, alchemy, astrology, and other occult subjects. Through my intensive research, intuition, common sense, and even "astral" communication, I have certain perceptions of how I see the universe. I admit that they are perceptions, and I consider these perceptions to be close to Truth, if not fully aligned with the Truth. Could I be absolutely wrong and way off the mark? Absolutely! And if I find that my information is not correct, I tweak my perceptions appropriately so that I feel and think that they are closer aligned to Truth.

In the case of 2+2=4, humans call this true because we have chosen to give these symbols meaning. It is a perception, but one based on how the universe works in our level of understanding and physical reality. It is true to us because it makes sense in the way we experience this reality. When one puts two piles of 5 stones each together, the pile is doubled because we associate the stones a certain way that is conducive for our understanding. An E.T. race may look at these stones differently and count larger stones as having more value than smaller ones, and therefore, their perception would be different but true to their understanding of the universe they inhabit.

But real Truth, with a capital "T" is so much more than this. Truth is what has happened and what will happen if the conditions stay the same.

[ZooLife]

The word 'truth' and the idea 'truth' are only shadows of The Truth.

You are not going to find The Truth in these.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jmcs5lHP45A/UI5DrsjEdUI/AAAAAAAAJwE/HIFzusCLpV0/s1600/FUNNY.JPG

[kreagle]

No, Truth is immutable and constant and there is only one. Anything that isn't fully aligned with Truth is simply perception and deviation.


The problem is that many people do not want to believe the truth.

rgray222,

This is true on the 'surface'. However, when one ventures a little deeper into this it becomes quite apparent that most develop their own 'truth' in relationship to the lifestyle(s) they are endeavoring/desiring to live. If their lifestyle is then harmonious with any 'truth' that is established, then,....( and then, only),....is this 'truth' ordained to be just that. If not, then the opposite is true in their tainted minds.

Lifestyles should never be the source we use to mold 'truth' into our lives. Quite the contrary,.....'truth' molds lifestyles.

The following scriptures show these two different applications of 'truth',.....


2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 (KJV)

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


And,......

John 8:32 (KJV)

32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.




Your brother, friend, and servant,.......kreagle

[Guish]

[QUOTE=SamwiseTheBrave;912311]No, Truth is immutable and constant and there is only one. Anything that isn't fully aligned with Truth is simply perception and deviation.



Lifestyles should never be the source we use to mold 'truth' into our lives. Quite the contrary,.....'truth' molds






Good point. This reminds me of Budha's noble truths.


1. Noble Truth of Suffering

Chasing after the delights of the world, expecting them to bring lasting pleasure, always leads to disappointment. These things are all subject to the miseries of birth, old age, sickness and death. Even when you do find something pleasant how soon do you grow tired of it? None of these 'things' offer any real satisfaction or peace.

2 Noble Truth of the Cause of Suffering

Not being able to be content with what we have or who we are, our mind is filled with a greed or desire and suffering of all types automatically follows. This attitude of selfishness and greediness is the cause of our dissatisfaction, robbing us of our peace of mind.

3. Noble Truth of the End of Suffering

Seeing the suffering that comes from these attitudes we are liberated from our heart and all our suffering and dissatisfaction will come to an end. We shall experience a happiness that is far greater then our ordinary pleasures and a peace that is beyond words.

4. Noble Truth of the Middle Path or the Nobel Eightfold Path

This path leads to the end of all suffering, If we avoid harming all other living beings, if we sharpen and focus our mind, and if we gain wisdom, each of us can reach perfect happiness, the end of all misery. The way to end suffering is to follow the Noble Eightfold Path namely:

Right Understanding
Right Thought
Right Speech
Right Action
Right Livelihood
Right Effort
Right Mindfulness
Right Concentration

The five monks who had highly developed minds understood his teaching and became his first disciples; the Sangha (Community of Monks) was thus formed.