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Celine
8th November 2010, 00:41
This time of year always finds us remembering those who have given their lives and some their souls.

This time of year we honor the soldiers who fight wars , both far away and right next door.

This time of year we recognize all who fight for honor and integrity

A Pittance of time was written by a canadian song writer, about a personal experience he had while shopping one day in a local grocery store.

Soldier, Veterans, Fighters of all kind...Thank you.



http://www.visitfenelonfalls.com/PHOTOS/poppy_pin.jpg



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kX_3y3u5Uo

sjkted
8th November 2010, 06:14
I feel sick watching this.

The only justification for war is self-defense. It's been several generations since we've had a war worth fighting, if that. The people who fight the current wars are just propping up the banks and increasing the Anglo empire. None of these soliders have made us safer at home -- instead it is quite the opposite as the wars increase national debt and make us less safe.

--sjkted

Peace of Mind
8th November 2010, 16:28
wars are only fought over greed and personal agendas. The sad and dishorable thing about it is they use poor kids to fight and take the land of poorer people...all in the name of terrorism. If we could put the people that started these wars and put them in a large room to fight it out amongst themselves we would have very little problems around the world. But seeing that the world is filled with (and runned by) cowards...there will always be bloodshed of innocents while the perpetrators dictate and hide behind their deceitful tactics.

Peace

Celine
9th November 2010, 02:41
The song is not about the wars IMO.

The song/video is about people...plain ordinary , guy next door, people.

Talk about TPTB's all day... Harp... Illuminati... Agendas.. Channeling...

And in the end..

It's people... And sometimes you have to stop and think..about people.

And yes..its sad..


I am sad, because I love people....

And this game has to stop.

People are hurt, hurting ..and going to keep hurting

We need to stop..and think.

truthseekerdan
9th November 2010, 06:33
And this game has to stop.


Wishful thinking... This reality we call life is a game, and we (souls) agreed to be the players.
I believe that you worry too much, and need to start 'thinking outside the box'. :nod:

Ross
9th November 2010, 08:33
The young minds that go to war...so easily controlled...Conscious genocide by the puppet masters.

The ones who return...so effected by the experience...and left alone to deal with the horror.

Ross

Celine
9th November 2010, 12:54
Wishful thinking...
I believe that you worry too much

Wishing/thinking ...helps to mold our reality.

My soul might have agreed to play the game but I know it wants to stop

I am here to learn how to do that...I believe others are here for the same thing.

And yes, thank you for remarking, I do "worry to much" as you say.. You are not the first to say so. I wasnt always like this, came with motherhood I guess.


and left alone to deal with the horror.

Ross

This is what I hope to change.

There are many here who have family or loved ones hurt/affected by war...

Most of us here have no idea what living through war means.

This is remembrance week in canada.. its about offering posistive and compassionate thoughts to people who have suffered thru horrific experiences.

All my heart to those who suffer because of war.

Zook
9th November 2010, 13:47
Good mornng, Celine, the Earth says hello ...



This time of year always finds us remembering those who have given their lives and some their souls.

This time of year we honor the soldiers who fight wars , both far away and right next door.

This time of year we recognize all who fight for honor and integrity

A Pittance of time was written by a canadian song writer, about a personal experience he had while shopping one day in a local grocery store.

Soldier, Veterans, Fighters of all kind...Thank you.



The video gave me mixed feelings. It is simultaneously a deserving tribute to those who fought the just wars (and justly fought unjust wars) ... and a propaganda piece for those who are unjustly fighting today's unjust wars. The rule of just wars, IMHO, is that they should be fought in defense. I'm not immediately familiar with any exceptions to this rule.

From a western layman's perspective, WW1 and WW2 were both unjust wars in the context of what we know now, but back then, the men who fought in them did so for honorable reasons, e.g. defense. They genuinely felt the threat of German expansionism; and later of Japanese expansionism; and they committed their lives in the duty of their nation and families ... there was no internet back then to apprise these honorable men (young men, mostly) of the deceptive facts of the respective antebellums. Fast forward to the Korean and Vietnamese wars; while those wars were unjust as well (by today's knowledge applied retroactively); those men, too, were still largely in the informational dark ages when they committed their lives to fighting the dark forces of the day (e.g. communists) ... and they, too, can be excused from the charge of fighting an unjust war (with the exception of those that committed atrocities against defenseless civilians, e.g. No Gun Ri, Mai Lai, and many unreported similar incidents). Which brings us to the wars of post-9/11/2001. As before, the facts of the antebellum establish the unjust nature of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan; but this time, there can be no excuse for ignorance. Anyone who has chosen to go and fight in these two unjust wars cannot claim informational ignorance and immunity. They are guilty of knowingly fighting an unjust war; or of voluntary ignorance (as opposed to the previous cases of involuntary ignorance) ... and are therefore undeserving of our support, and certainly they don't need to be honored alongside the many honorable soldiers of the past. The charge of voluntary ignorance is a serious charge, make no mistake about it.

Having said that, Terry Kelly suffers from physical blindness. So he didn't see the towers fall on 9/11/2001. So his narrative of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars may in fact be a genuine one. I certainly think it is. So I applaud him for writing the song which, viewed in his narrative, is a moving tribute to just soldiers of just wars.

:typing:

ps: I bought a poppy yesterday at the local supermarket. I would have done so even if it'd been a young Canadian soldier in military fatigues sitting at the poppy desk ... and it would have killed me inside knowing that I would be leaving the young man with the wrong impression (e.g. that I support his unjust wars).

Beren
9th November 2010, 15:44
There are many here who have family or loved ones hurt/affected by war...

Most of us here have no idea what living through war means.

I do . Wouldn't recommend anyone.
All that people are speculating for the last few moths about crash in the west, I lived through it here in Belgrade which was once capital of Yugoslavia,then Serbia and Montenegro and now Serbia.
I saw first hand how a country is being destroyed by big capital, how wars were ignited and raged from outside of the country. How refugees were running around and moving around.
How one country was divided by imperialists and thrown into abyss. We never recovered.
Wages fell from 1000 Deutsch marks to 4 marks over three months ( like from 3000$ today to 4 $ ), people lost all over night, crime erupted, violence too, some went to war some ran aways.
Traumas were widespread.I never wanted to part of the madness and didn't participate in anything connected to all in that situation.

And all this happened because big money in the west decided so in their own experimental games.
So when I hear western propaganda about innocent soldiers I feel sick.
Mostly those soldiers doesn't have a clue where they go and why but they nevertheless GO! They are being payed for that. And they complain afterwards of various syndromes... Who made you to sign for the army? Why did you end up in any war at all?
Because of the country call? Whom called you?
Those who care for their power and wealth called you , so don't whine to me about your troubles after in the real world.

But in the end of the day we are all humans and go blindly into various experiences without ever questioning that.
And I feel for the people who realize what they did and who are truly changed after war.

Ahkenaten
9th November 2010, 22:55
Hey if everyone just said no I won't go there wouldn't be any wars but people continue to say yes for many reasons. As far as I know in the US people go into the service voluntarily so they make a decision and obviously one of the basic risks is losing one's life and killing another person. The discussion needs to go beyond the conventional thinking to true accountability for personal action as a creative force in nature. If people could do that, then the world would be a different place.

Rocky_Shorz
9th November 2010, 23:17
Every year for veteran's day I like to share something I wrote for a vet that spends every weekend at a memorial... The battle was on to pull it down and he came to me asking if I could help come up with the words that could save it... He printed over 10,000 and handed them out to everyone that visited... It is still standing...


San Diego's Sword in the Stone

* A veteran soldier walks up before the crowd, draws his sword and takes the microphone. *

"many people want the cross to come down because it is a religious symbol"

* at this point he raises his sword above his head for all to see. *

"The sword has always been a symbol of a warrior, an Icon of valor and strength. The sign of a man who is willing to die for what he believes.. A great Warrior understands the might of the sword isn't in the steel of the blade, it comes from the handle and the heart of the man behind it."

"When a hero falls, his sword is planted in the dirt over his head..."

* at this point, he drives the sword deep into the ground, and bows his head. giving the crowd a chance to see the sword glistening in the sunlight. That's when they realized, they are looking at a cross *

"The strength is still in the handle. To Christians, the three points of the cross, remind us of the Trinity, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but at the heart of it's meaning, is a hero that died for what he believed."

"Mount Soledad Cross is San Diego's reminder of all of our heroes, both men and
women, that have died for our Freedom."


"In their memory let it stand, let it be our Sword in the Stone"


" Let it stand for all who died, bringing peace to the World"


2010 Rocky Shorz

Celine
9th November 2010, 23:32
Simply ...and stunningly.. beautiful..

It made me weep as i could feel your heart..

thank you

Rocky_Shorz
10th November 2010, 17:56
my friend had tears streaming down his cheeks as he finished reading it...

he had lived through the pains of war...

somehow, I came up with the words to help heal his hurt...

I guess nothing is more important than letting our Vets know we appreciate the sacrifices they made for our country and the world...

Ahkenaten
10th November 2010, 18:21
With all due respect, the best and wisest thing we can do for our people is to give up the retrograde and primitive practice of warfaring. We should have evolved well beyond it at this point and it is only perpetuated to profit some people at the expense of the rest of us. We should not glorify the cult of the warrior and thus perpetuate the meme of bloody human sacrifice. All of it plays to the darkest side of our nature and perpetuates all the things we should well leave behind.

Celine
11th November 2010, 02:10
I connect with every human on this planet..

Good...Bad..

Mind controlled or Free Minded..

Aware or asleep..

I love each and every one.

Some scare me...Some anger me

Some intrigue me...And some bore me

But ALL are loved by me.

I do not support propaganda...(But twist the subject as you wish and I see the context you are stating)

I do not glorify the cult of the warrior...(But I do recognize the warrior is in all of us)

Battles are fought in many ways though soldiers are not all wearing uniforms.

So trained to see evil everywhere...We forget the human anywhere.


My heart is all I wished to share, yet all you want to discuss is the tyranny that has bastardized the warrior spirit..

I wonder, what spirit brings a young man to "sign up for service"...

I know we have a few veterans who are members...perhaps they would care to make a comment or two..

Snowbird
11th November 2010, 04:02
"How is it possible to have a civil war?" - George Carlin

In war, truth is the first casualty. ~Aeschylus

War does not determine who is right - only who is left. ~Bertrand Russell

Men are at war with each other because each man is at war with himself. ~Francis Meehan

Sun Tzu Tse: "The height of mastery is not to win every battle. The height of mastery is not to fight at all."

I dream of giving birth to a child who will ask, "Mother, what was war?" ~Eve Merriam

All the arms we need are for hugging. ~Author Unknown

Join the Army, see the world, meet interesting people - and kill them. ~Pacifist Badge, 1978

You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake. ~Jeanette Rankin

Give me the money that has been spent in war and I will clothe every man, woman, and child in an attire of which kings and queens will be proud. I will build a schoolhouse in every valley over the whole earth. I will crown every hillside with a place of worship consecrated to peace. ~Charles Sumner

Ahkenaten
11th November 2010, 04:20
Hi Celine - I was definitely not attacking anyone simply making some statements from the heart on a subject that is important to all of us. Empathy and love are powerful and important of course - the fact remains that if we did not persist in perpetuating war it would not exist in this form, though surely the cosmic dance continues on many other levels. I believe we all are as responsible for saying "no more" to things we must leave behind us as we are for extending heartfelt affection and love to others.

Celine
12th November 2010, 03:25
I did not feel attacked..but I do know this subject gets attacked every year.

And I am glad you said important to all of us...because I share that view as well..

But until there is "no more" war, We need soldiers..


Define soldier..

Is a Freedom fighter a soldier?



Do we mourn for them?


I do.

There are many soldier amongst our community. How many have died for the truth?

Do we remember them? Or forget them?

The spirit of a soldier is what is remembered today.

IMO it has little or nothing to do with politics , conspiracies or hidden agendas.

I am saddened that my choice to honor veterans has turned into a discussion that seems to be more negative then Intended.


It is a sensitive subject I understand that...and I am sorry.



Remembrance day is almost over.. I think of the wifes, husbands and children of the veterans..People who care for the physicaly and spritualy injured vets..they offer so much support to their loved ones. Thank You.


Broken bodies , broken spirits..loved,..remembered.

Thank you.

Ahkenaten
12th November 2010, 04:03
As the Lord Krishna said to Arjuna on the field of Truth, on the battle field of life as Arjuna wept in despair at the imminent battle between family members:

"Thy tears are for those beyond tears: and are thy words words of wisdom? The wise grieve not for those who live; and they grieve not for those who die - for life and death shall pass away.

Because we have all been for all time: I, and thou, and those kings of men. And we all shall be for all time, we all for ever and for ever.

As the spirit of our mortal body wanders on in childhood, and youth and old age, the Spirit wanders on to a new body: of this the sage has no doubts.

From the world of the senses, Arjuna, comes heat and comes cold, and pleasure and pain. They come and they go: they are transient. Arise above them, strong soul.

The Man who these cannot move, whose soul is one, beyond pleasure and pain, is worthy of life in eternity.

The unreal never is: the Real is never not. This truth indeed has been seen by those who can see the true.

...................................and............

He is never born, and he never dies. He is in Eternity. He is forever more. Never-born and eternal, beyond times gone or to come he does not die when the body dies.

When a man knows him as never-born, everlasting, never-changing, beyond all destruction, how can than man kill a man or cause another to kill?

As a man leaves an old garment and puts on one that is new, the Spirit leaves his mortal body and wanders on to one that is new.

Weapons cannot hurt the Spirit and fire can never burn him. Untouched is he by drenching waters, untouched is he by parching winds.

Beyond the power of sword and fire, beyond the power of waters and winds, the Spirit is everlasting, omnipresent, never-changing, never-moving, ever One.

Invisible is he to mortal eyes, beyond thought and beyond change. Know that he is, and cease from sorrow.

But if her were born again and again, and again and again he were to die, even then, victorious man, cease thou from sorrow.

For all things born in truth must die, and out of death in truth comes life. Face to face with what must be cease thou from sorrow.

..................and

There is a war that opens the gates of Heaven, Arjuna! Happy the warriors whose fate it is to fight such a war!

.................and

In death, thy glory in heaven, in victory thy glory on earth. Arise, therefor Arjuna, with thy soul ready to fight."




The entire Bhagavad Gita deals with this subject on multiple levels and is well worthwhile reading.

Celine
12th November 2010, 04:21
Yes...and on a spiritual level..

I feel what it says deeply.

But here..now.

My your...your world...his world.

has people suffering, and sometimes...a kind thought heals more then 3 holy men put together.

Ever say hello to a lonely person?

Lots of vets are lonely.

Snowbird
13th November 2010, 16:26
Celine: I am saddened that my choice to honor veterans has turned into a discussion that seems to be more negative then Intended.


It is a sensitive subject I understand that...and I am sorry.

Celine, your genuine love for humanity shines brightly throughout this forum. There is no doubt within my mind that your heart is extended to all.

What may appear as an attack on the subject of war and warring during this time of year, is what I believe to be, a method of sounding an alarm to those who may possibly be thinking of joining the military. Any one of the armed forces are purposely advertised to attract the very young. Their futures are ever changing and many of these are impulsive and make quick and destructive decisions when they are presented with "bright futures" in the military. What they have no way of knowing at the time of induction is that they become super-slaves when they add their signatures to any contract or agreement with any military branch. At the time of signing, they literally sign away their freedoms and their futures and their abilities to be individuals...which is their God-given right.

This is the reason that people sound this alarm. To hopefully ward off even ONE young person from wasting their life and their future by becoming part of any military anywhere.

The reported romance of war and fighting an enemy to preserve the freedoms of one's family and neighbors is nothing short of delusion. Wars, at any time and in any country, are fought for profit and control and genocide. This is the reality that we must continue to convey to help to save the lives and the freedoms of those who entertain the thought of dying for one's country. NO! They are dying for the greed of others.


Reporting America At War

http://www.pbs.org/weta/reportingamericaatwar/about/ep01.html

Rocky_Shorz
13th November 2010, 19:32
Give me the money that has been spent in war and I will clothe every man, woman, and child in an attire of which kings and queens will be proud. I will build a schoolhouse in every valley over the whole earth. I will crown every hillside with a place of worship consecrated to peace. ~Charles Sumner



This one came to me on 9/11 as I was walking to work...

Evil Man, I spoke with your God...

The gift I was given was a pen from the Lord,
Stronger than mass armies, more Powerful than a sword


He wants every nation to listen to His word
tell all men, women and children to make sure it's heard
time to lay down your arms and give up your power
now is not the time for this world's final hour
the money being spent for all of these wars
could fill every shelf in your Nation's stores
all this fighting, evil and terror must cease
the world is ready for harmony and peace
every religion looks up to the One
so do this great favor for My only son

If you want to know God's power and glory
Then stop all this turmoil.... end of story

Copyright 2010 Rocky Shorz

Leon
13th November 2010, 20:18
Today it seems most war is waged against Muslim Countries, is this because these people will not bow to the nwo? The word is doing the steps, create war, create hate, create fear. why? control. I read above how the perpertrators manipulate to start a war, then plead ignorance of such crimes. yet if you went into a court today and plead ignorance of the law you will be jailed! most laws today are made in order to control.
What we have today is not really needed at all, it comes from the ideals of the nwo. the only people who can change anything is us ourselves. but here in lies the problem. how?
We dont all go to war because we volunteer to do so, many become soldiers because they cannot get a normal job, many see it as a job. of course there are those who enjoy being a soldier as they can feel the power over another.
How can we fix it? we cannot till we overcome the need to control others, to feel power over another. we can only do it if we agree we all human, on the same level.
At the end of the day, its not important how much education you have, or how much you achieved. you cannot take any of it with you.
This can be discused till the end of days...

Rocky_Shorz
13th November 2010, 20:56
full story (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/madeleine-albright/islam-and-the-west-achiev_b_781996.html)


certain broad steps can and should be taken to strengthen the foundation for intercultural understanding.

First, we must be willing to conduct an honest self-examination that does not gloss over differences or duck hard issues. Superficial courtesy is easy, but the path to agreement on the application of moral principles is arduous. A dialogue that matters will examine, among other topics, the legacy of imperialism, women's rights, freedom of worship, the criteria for just war, educational standards, and the appropriate relationship between religious and civil law.

Second, we must communicate better by eliminating from our vocabulary terms that recall past stereotypes or that reflect ignorance or disrespect. The idea that the West has singled out Islam as an enemy is nonsense; so is the allegation that Islam provides a rationale for terrorism. On whatever side, the actions of a few cannot be used to condemn the many.

Third, we must emphasize the firm connection that exists between democratic and Islamic values while also heeding the lesson of Iraq, which is that democracy must find its roots internally. Neither Islam nor any other religious faith should be used to justify despotism or to validate the suppression of civil society.

Fourth, we must establish common ground on questions of immigration and integration in all of our countries and others. Leaders in and outside of government must search for answers that take into account economic and demographic realities, while discouraging reactions based on prejudice or fear. Here, as elsewhere, a balance between rights and responsibilities must be maintained.

Finally, we should continue to expand business, scientific, academic, cultural and religious contacts that provide a social bridge connecting the Muslim world to non-Muslims in the West.

Celine
14th November 2010, 03:32
This is the reason that people sound this alarm. To hopefully ward off even ONE young person from wasting their life and their future by becoming part of any military anywhere.



Now that is a perspective I can understand, respect and support..

War is an abomination... but please dont let that kill the fighting spirit in all of us.

I am human.. I wont let any one, take that away from me.


PS: thank you for your heart felt words...