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Sammy
10th January 2015, 18:33
That question is:

What is it about me... what has been going on with me that brings such experiences into my life?

It seems there is a direct and proportional relationship between one's true, honest and open willingness to look deep within as to how precise can be the answers one can obtain when asking this question.

I, personally... am in one of these stretches of truth seeking.

I suspect I am not alone and I hope that I am not alone.

Sunny-side-up
10th January 2015, 18:39
That question is:

What is it about me... what has been going on with me that brings such experiences into my life?

It seems there is a direct and proportional relationship between ones true, honest and open willingness to look deep within to the how precise the answers one can obtain when asking this question.

I, personally... am in one of these stretches of truth seeking.

I suspect I am not alone and I hope that I am not alone.

Your definitely not alone justone, that I can guarantee!

Rahkyt
10th January 2015, 19:00
Yeh...def not alone, bredren.

I also have reached a space of intense inner searching, which is strange to say because that is generally the case. This particular time tho', the deepest aspects of self have arisen to the surface, doors and corridors fearful to tread seem nascent, demanding attention.

What is it about you? Do you know? If not, you have only to continue following the path of the Now to have it revealed to you.

There is a reason the inscription above the portals to the Oracle of Delphi at the Temple of Apollo and temples across Kemet stated "Man, know thyself ..."

The most terrific and ecstatic journey of a lifetime.

DeDukshyn
10th January 2015, 19:13
I have noticed that at times in my life -- one answer was the ultimate answer for where I was. But at another time when my journey had advanced, that previous answer was no longer valid and an answer that was not valid at the time of my initial contemplation was now the "ultimate" answer.

Ken Carey indicated in one of his books that the words written in the book are not the truth, they are merely conceptual tools to thrust one into a new perception and a new way of seeing things; which afterwards, the words written would no longer be relevant or useful. You can't use the first floor map to navigate the second floor and vice versa.

When you see a pond filled to the brim with alligators from a safe distance you may wonder how all the alligators got there. If you fall in, that question would never surface because the only thing you would think about is escaping the alligator pond.

Seeking is dynamic, Seek and ye shall find. ;)

Shezbeth
10th January 2015, 19:13
This is a subject that I have likewise been pondering, especially of late.

IS there something about Me that is different from those of the more agreeably 'norm'? IF so, what is it? Certainly there are behavioral differences, ideological differences, philosophical differences, etc., but from whence do those come? Is there something inherent, or is simply a matter of cause and effect, that I was subjected to 'particular' stimuli from which I have developed into a (seemingly) vastly different expression, again in reference to the 'norm'?

I don't have a good answer to this question ATM, but that's okkay because I'm okkay with that. ^_^

Sammy
10th January 2015, 19:35
I recall in the past how important my perception was of the perceptions others had of me.

It then became important I just become an authentic me where what they perceived matched with what I was. This one is ongoing.

But I am now seeing something more important than the latter and that is... how can I be the best for others and be so with little to no notice as to my own involvement.

I wonder what I might strive for next?

Thanks that three male voices spoke up on this thread at a time when the masculine principle is needed most to be its best... and I just don't know the gender of sunny-side-up but with a poster name such as that... wow... what an attitude!

The sun still also rises.

regnak
10th January 2015, 19:46
reality is a reflection of you that the secret simple like looking into a mirror and insisting that the mirror smile first the mirror can
wait you out if you smile then the mirror smiles you only get what is a expression of you that is one deepest secrets for this is your reality
only you exist everything in your reality is about you

there are no end to the number of reality for every reality happens what is the difference between each one you.

Deega
10th January 2015, 19:56
That question is:

What is it about me... what has been going on with me that brings such experiences into my life?

It seems there is a direct and proportional relationship between one's true, honest and open willingness to look deep within as to how precise can be the answers one can obtain when asking this question.

I, personally... am in one of these stretches of truth seeking.

I suspect I am not alone and I hope that I am not alone.


Been having similar questions, the one I'm stuck with "who am I?", what was the initial spark that started my descend on Earth? And who was the initiator (me or another being or ETs) of that spark?

Very interesting, I hope that I may find answers to these questions before leaving Planet Earth!

The best to you!

regnak
10th January 2015, 19:59
you are a god having a human experience but the greatest secret so is everyone else . You choose to be here for there are experiences you wish to have

Sunny-side-up
10th January 2015, 20:04
Stillness is the me that knows the most, it is the best me, it knows all without stress!


I recall in the past how important my perception was of the perceptions others had of me.

It then became important I just become an authentic me where what they perceived matched with what I was. This one is ongoing.

But I am now seeing something more important than the latter and that is... how can I be the best for others and be so with little to no notice as to my own involvement.

I wonder what I might strive for next?

Thanks that three male voices spoke up on this thread at a time when the masculine principle is needed most to be its best... and I just don't know the gender of sunny-side-up but with a poster name such as that... wow... what an attitude!

The sun still also rises.

Rahkyt
What is it about you? Do you know? If not, you have only to continue following the path of the Now to have it revealed to you.

DeDukshyn
I have noticed that at times in my life -- one answer was the ultimate answer for where I was. But at another time when my journey had advanced, that previous answer was no longer valid and an answer that was not valid at the time of my initial contemplation was now the "ultimate" answer.

Shezbeth
cause and effect, that I was subjected to 'particular' stimuli from which I have developed into a (seemingly) vastly different expression, again in reference to the 'norm'?

justone
The sun still also rises Thanks for that remark, I will add it it to me Signature:)

Just love this Avalon, just love it's Posts, just love it's members. Get so many lifts from you all, Love you all

Alan; Gender Male, Leo/Virgo cusp :)

PS: The Sun Still Shines on all, so that we all might see and know!

Roisin
10th January 2015, 20:05
This is a subject that I have likewise been pondering, especially of late.

IS there something about Me that is different from those of the more agreeably 'norm'? IF so, what is it? Certainly there are behavioral differences, ideological differences, philosophical differences, etc., but from whence do those come? Is there something inherent, or is simply a matter of cause and effect, that I was subjected to 'particular' stimuli from which I have developed into a (seemingly) vastly different expression, again in reference to the 'norm'?

I don't have a good answer to this question ATM, but that's okkay because I'm okkay with that. ^_^

Oh,sorry Shezbeth. Read your above post just as I took a sip out of a glass of milk but now it's coming out of my nose!

P.S. I really like your sense of humor Shezbeth.... ;)

WhiteLove
10th January 2015, 20:10
For me it has expanded in very unexpected directions, giving me a totally new framework of how to perceive and understand reality and how to connect things unfolding in reality. For instance I was just for some reason very attached to listening to "Bethany Dillon", deep inside of me there was something about this music and about this artist that I was really deeply attached to and loved very very much. Little did I know that from that love would come to me a whole new perspective on what reality is. For a truth seeker like me, that kind of stuff truly blows my mind...

Besides the very overwhelming spiritual insights I've gained, it also appears to me that I've been able to successfully exploit some of the physical forces and how they interact with the spiritual ones. For instance the force of money. I now find money to be one of the most overrated things in the physical world. All poor people around me appear to only focus on one thing - money, they don't seem so happy and excited. All rich people around me appear to only focus on one thing - money, they don't seem so happy and their excitement is strange. All happy people around me are not poor and not rich, they don't spend much time thinking about money and they have no problems spending money. They get what they want and they are happy and excited. And I think that's because they don't over value money compared to other things in life. I would say they value money a bit less than the average person on the street.

Orph
10th January 2015, 20:12
That question is:

What is it about me... what has been going on with me that brings such experiences into my life?

Sounds similar to the same two questions I've been asking myself lately. ...."Who am I?. ....What am I?" ?????

Sammy
10th January 2015, 20:19
Sometimes the answer I get to that "who/what" is...

"You make yourself who you are and that tells you what you are."

[source unidentified]

Roisin
10th January 2015, 20:25
That question is:

What is it about me... what has been going on with me that brings such experiences into my life?

Sounds similar to the same two questions I've been asking myself lately. ...."Who am I?. ....What am I?" ?????

Add "Where am I?" to that one too. :) I used to say all three to myself every morning at a job I would punch-in to everyday before it dawned on me that it was time to look for a new job. Since then I've said the same trio in other life situations too. Very useful when attempting to put things into perspective wrt whatever you're doing habitually/addictively at any given time. If the challenge and meaningfulness is no longer there, then it's time to move on.

regnak
10th January 2015, 20:32
for those in doubt which is everyone here okay

taught-word-deed
belief-emotion-action

complete the circuit and the universe will support your actions you might even surprise yourself

DeDukshyn
11th January 2015, 00:45
That question is:

What is it about me... what has been going on with me that brings such experiences into my life?

It seems there is a direct and proportional relationship between one's true, honest and open willingness to look deep within as to how precise can be the answers one can obtain when asking this question.

I, personally... am in one of these stretches of truth seeking.

I suspect I am not alone and I hope that I am not alone.


Been having similar questions, the one I'm stuck with "who am I?", what was the initial spark that started my descend on Earth? And who was the initiator (me or another being or ETs) of that spark?

Very interesting, I hope that I may find answers to these questions before leaving Planet Earth!

The best to you!

Miguel Ruiz, in his contemplation of this question, concluded with conviction that it matters not "who am I?" - it is an invalid question in a sense. Will having an answer to that change who you are? Any answer to that is a distortion of reality; as Miguel explains here -- listen carefully, this guy's messages are often multi tiered (I.e. can address both the "first floor" and the "second floor" at the same time - depending on the perception of what is all entailed in the message.

tKCWH4KT1Xc

eaglespirit
11th January 2015, 01:48
I recall in the past how important my perception was of the perceptions others had of me.

It then became important I just become an authentic me where what they perceived matched with what I was. This one is ongoing.

But I am now seeing something more important than the latter and that is... how can I be the best for others and be so with little to no notice as to my own involvement.

I wonder what I might strive for next?

Thanks that three male voices spoke up on this thread at a time when the masculine principle is needed most to be its best... and I just don't know the gender of sunny-side-up but with a poster name such as that... wow... what an attitude!

The sun still also rises.

Multi-dimensional thinkings brings multi-dimensional doings!

Our higher connectivity is more selfless the higher we go, with loving intent.

Good Thread, Good Sharings, Thank You All : )

ghostrider
11th January 2015, 05:54
I am really making an effort to live truth , treat people the way I want them to treat me ... the more I learn , the more I learn I have a lot to learn ... truth is a never ending journey ...

betoobig
11th January 2015, 12:48
Hello everyone. Justone, i am also feelling the same stuff.... is uncomfortable to feel like returning to the begining of the game, even do is not that... is kind of loosing the north for a while.
I was about to ask for support becouse of this feelling and your thread has allready helped me. Thanks so much.
Love

Sunny-side-up
11th January 2015, 14:06
We all base our material self/s on the world we live in, the Pandora's-box, the rabbit-hole, the tangled mess of illusions and hoax!
While our true higher-selves sit above flinching and going Doh at us!
really our lower selves just need'want's to eat-drink (Even that might well be a hoax/illusion) and sit in the sun enjoying nature and making friends!

Without the tangled mess of illusions and hoax's I think we would know ourselves very well, we would be free of the matrix which by the way we all help tie ourselves to by just debating it Doh again ;)

Deega
11th January 2015, 19:38
@DeDukshyn


Miguel Ruiz, in his contemplation of this question, concluded with conviction that it matters not "who am I?" - it is an invalid question in a sense. Will having an answer to that change who you are? Any answer to that is a distortion of reality; as Miguel explains here -- listen carefully, this guy's messages are often multi tiered (I.e. can address both the "first floor" and the "second floor" at the same time - depending on the perception of what is all entailed in the message.

Very interesting video, Don Miguel Riuz has a profound perspective on the Mind, his virtuality, distortion of reality. Even though, he has a very interesting perspective of the Mind, IMHO, the "I" is salient!

In my limited perspective, the "Who am I?" is a valid question, we don't have the answer to it!, and if we would of know, it would be great, we could at least try study the what, where, why, how, of the "I", is, was!

Knowing who am I?, would be a "headway" to what we may work on! Not knowing "who we are?" make us search in so many directions that we dissipate our energies on to, to many possibilities!

If we would know "who we are", we would all search for the multiple answers coming after!, and we be doing large steps forward, don't you think!


The best to you!

iotaherculis
11th January 2015, 21:31
http://watson-um-demo.mybluemix.net/
Let the machine tell you what you are....

Sammy
11th January 2015, 22:41
@DeDukshyn


Miguel Ruiz, in his contemplation of this question, concluded with conviction that it matters not "who am I?" - it is an invalid question in a sense. Will having an answer to that change who you are? Any answer to that is a distortion of reality; as Miguel explains here -- listen carefully, this guy's messages are often multi tiered (I.e. can address both the "first floor" and the "second floor" at the same time - depending on the perception of what is all entailed in the message.

Very interesting video, Don Miguel Riuz has a profound perspective on the Mind, his virtuality, distortion of reality. Even though, he has a very interesting perspective of the Mind, IMHO, the "I" is salient!

In my limited perspective, the "Who am I?" is a valid question, we don't have the answer to it!, and if we would of know, it would be great, we could at least try study the what, where, why, how, of the "I", is, was!

Knowing who am I?, would be a "headway" to what we may work on! Not knowing "who we are?" make us search in so many directions that we dissipate our energies on to, to many possibilities!

If we would know "who we are", we would all search for the multiple answers coming after!, and we be doing large steps forward, don't you think!


The best to you!

This is my most recent answer to my question of - "who am I?"
(do note this is subject to revision)


“I (as us all) am (are)
simply the ‘All that Is’
that found a way to deceive Itself
that It wasn't Itself
and simultaneously
hid Itself within Itself
such that it might (re)discover Itself
alive and individuated
within Its self-created Magick Kingdom.”

Meggings
12th January 2015, 01:32
And who am I when I have enough red wine to see I am not in a good place?
Who am I, knowing of my path through countless lifetimes of use on earth, when I see I am in a "useless place" not being of service to others?
Who am I when I am feeling misery beyond belief and unhelpful to life itself?

Am I still worthy of drawing breath and occupying space?

Deega
12th January 2015, 14:37
And who am I when I have enough red wine to see I am not in a good place?
Who am I, knowing of my path through countless lifetimes of use on earth, when I see I am in a "useless place" not being of service to others?
Who am I when I am feeling misery beyond belief and unhelpful to life itself?

Am I still worthy of drawing breath and occupying space?

Thanks Meggings, the "Who am I" that I was in search of was the ONE that brought life unto Earth that we are a part of!

The best to you!

Deega
12th January 2015, 14:40
@DeDukshyn


Miguel Ruiz, in his contemplation of this question, concluded with conviction that it matters not "who am I?" - it is an invalid question in a sense. Will having an answer to that change who you are? Any answer to that is a distortion of reality; as Miguel explains here -- listen carefully, this guy's messages are often multi tiered (I.e. can address both the "first floor" and the "second floor" at the same time - depending on the perception of what is all entailed in the message.

Very interesting video, Don Miguel Riuz has a profound perspective on the Mind, his virtuality, distortion of reality. Even though, he has a very interesting perspective of the Mind, IMHO, the "I" is salient!

In my limited perspective, the "Who am I?" is a valid question, we don't have the answer to it!, and if we would of know, it would be great, we could at least try study the what, where, why, how, of the "I", is, was!

Knowing who am I?, would be a "headway" to what we may work on! Not knowing "who we are?" make us search in so many directions that we dissipate our energies on to, to many possibilities!

If we would know "who we are", we would all search for the multiple answers coming after!, and we be doing large steps forward, don't you think!


The best to you!

This is my most recent answer to my question of - "who am I?"
(do note this is subject to revision)


“I (as us all) am (are)
simply the ‘All that Is’
that found a way to deceive Itself
that It wasn't Itself
and simultaneously
hid Itself within Itself
such that it might (re)discover Itself
alive and individuated
within Its self-created Magick Kingdom.”


Thanks Justone, a short, well thought of reflexion on "I".

The best to you!

betoobig
12th January 2015, 16:39
I guess we just simply.. are.
Love

Sammy
13th January 2015, 01:57
This thread did not start out asking this question... but of all the attempts to answer the question of "Who am I?" nothing for me beats what Tim Freke has to say about it...

nZmJUYIsp98

Shezbeth
13th January 2015, 03:55
The question of "Who am I" is actually very simple IMO.

I am You.

earthdreamer
13th January 2015, 04:06
Will check out the Tim Freke vid, justone just recommended above.


"And who am I when I have enough red wine to see I am not in a good place?
Who am I, knowing of my path through countless lifetimes of use on earth, when I see I am in a "useless place" not being of service to others?
Who am I when I am feeling misery beyond belief and unhelpful to life itself?

Am I still worthy of drawing breath and occupying space? "----from above by "Meggings"

I think if one is drawing breath, there is no question of worthiness. If you are still 'occupying space', well there is still a body who needs love. Guilt can be a never-ending story. I think sometimes feelings of a lack of "service to others" can become twisted by self-guilt. Maybe, one is seeking "value fulfillment" which sometimes can be found without looking so hard for it. Sometimes it is better to let go of the guilt and accept all our warts, flaws that ultimately may give ourselves a deeper empathy for our human experience.

This reminds me of a story I happened to pick up off the local library bookshelf a few months ago that I found quite worthy. I found it on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Afterlife-Billy-Fingers-Bad-Boy-Brother/dp/1571746943/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1421120710&sr=1-3&keywords=billy+%2F+life+after+death&pebp=1421120719297&peasin=1571746943

"The Afterlife of Billy Fingers: How My Bad-Boy Brother Proved to Me There's Life After Death" by Annie Kagan hooked me and it was an easy enlightening read. On the surface, the brother's life was a mess and a heartache. He was an addict and he caused a lot of suffering in his life but he communicates with his sister after his death revealing a hidden depth of wisdom to his soul.



This simple remark too struck a chord:

"...is uncomfortable to feel like returning to the beginning of the game,..."betoobig"

I lay awake last night and felt a keen sense of sadness for the repetition of reality, feeling like an inferior copy of existence. But the feeling passes and something sparks again, like a spiral vortex of revolving epiphanies and inner revelations. We must be Infinite versions of ourSelves (again with the fractal imagery), higher/lower, expanded/contracted, so that it is an open-ended journey of learning who one is and the context always changes.

Milneman
13th January 2015, 21:45
I am.

That isn't pleasant for some people because they know who they are. And they really don't like what they see.

So they become:

I am what I want you to see.

Which is a complicated place to be because it means that you have to spend oodles and oodles of time lying to people about who you are, and agreeing to believe the lies that other people tell you about who they are. So we all become:

I am what I want you to see.

When in reality, we really are just:

I am.

Why do we have to complicate it all?

My guess is it all boils down to sex.

*shrug*

Deega
13th January 2015, 23:54
The question of "Who am I" is actually very simple IMO.

I am You.

Thanks Shezbeth, hmm!, like this!, but how would you put it in motion?

The best to you!

DeDukshyn
14th January 2015, 03:59
@DeDukshyn


Miguel Ruiz, in his contemplation of this question, concluded with conviction that it matters not "who am I?" - it is an invalid question in a sense. Will having an answer to that change who you are? Any answer to that is a distortion of reality; as Miguel explains here -- listen carefully, this guy's messages are often multi tiered (I.e. can address both the "first floor" and the "second floor" at the same time - depending on the perception of what is all entailed in the message.

Very interesting video, Don Miguel Riuz has a profound perspective on the Mind, his virtuality, distortion of reality. Even though, he has a very interesting perspective of the Mind, IMHO, the "I" is salient!

In my limited perspective, the "Who am I?" is a valid question, we don't have the answer to it!, and if we would of know, it would be great, we could at least try study the what, where, why, how, of the "I", is, was!

Knowing who am I?, would be a "headway" to what we may work on! Not knowing "who we are?" make us search in so many directions that we dissipate our energies on to, to many possibilities!

If we would know "who we are", we would all search for the multiple answers coming after!, and we be doing large steps forward, don't you think!


The best to you!

I fully, yet respectfully disagree. ;) Here's why. Personally, in my experiences, when I chose not to care what I am, when I chose not to force a definition of the answer, possibilities opened up. Possibilities that defied limited human "labels" and even understanding.

That's all I needed; Confirmation that "what we are" is well beyond basic primitive human terms. This motivates me to move beyond the limitations of terms (symbols of "virtual reality") that humans project, and try to limit definitions within.

Once I escaped that, I came a lot closer to understanding what I was. ;)

kritter
14th January 2015, 06:34
Who are you? Who am I?.... I wonder if that is a question that can be answered. We are ever evolving beings of consciousness, shaped by our experiences, beliefs, how we internalize things, genes, etc. Can you say that you are the same person you were years ago, months ago, weeks ago, or even days ago? I would think that until we are fully and completely awakened, we cannot know fully who we really are. I think who, you are, can only be answered for that current moment in time. Those are my thoughts at the moment, anyway.....

Baby Steps
14th January 2015, 10:55
A little visualisation:
One travels inside, deeper and deeper, trying to find ones essence or centre.Reminds me of Dune- so many people seem to recoil from this journey as they encounter phantoms of themselves on the way in-clues to their deep inner self that they cannot face. But for those who journey on, one reaches a place of .... NOTHINGNESS
All that remains is an infinitessimal spark of awareness, inside a sphere illuminated by outer dramas, thoughts & images from shallower layers.

Here you can confront the choice between left hand and right hand.

One can now seek to construct an inner Godhead edifice, made of all the exquisite things one likes, great wisdom or knowledge, light, power, love. This is the left hand path.

OR one can turn outwards to that sphere of inputs. Twiddle the knobs, adjust the receiver, try to tune in to that which nourishes and illumines.. That would be the journey back to the all,the right hand path.

God bless.

Deega
14th January 2015, 15:56
@DeDukshyn


Miguel Ruiz, in his contemplation of this question, concluded with conviction that it matters not "who am I?" - it is an invalid question in a sense. Will having an answer to that change who you are? Any answer to that is a distortion of reality; as Miguel explains here -- listen carefully, this guy's messages are often multi tiered (I.e. can address both the "first floor" and the "second floor" at the same time - depending on the perception of what is all entailed in the message.

Very interesting video, Don Miguel Riuz has a profound perspective on the Mind, his virtuality, distortion of reality. Even though, he has a very interesting perspective of the Mind, IMHO, the "I" is salient!

In my limited perspective, the "Who am I?" is a valid question, we don't have the answer to it!, and if we would of know, it would be great, we could at least try study the what, where, why, how, of the "I", is, was!

Knowing who am I?, would be a "headway" to what we may work on! Not knowing "who we are?" make us search in so many directions that we dissipate our energies on to, to many possibilities!

If we would know "who we are", we would all search for the multiple answers coming after!, and we be doing large steps forward, don't you think!


The best to you!

I fully, yet respectfully disagree. ;) Here's why. Personally, in my experiences, when I chose not to care what I am, when I chose not to force a definition of the answer, possibilities opened up. Possibilities that defied limited human "labels" and even understanding.

That's all I needed; Confirmation that "what we are" is well beyond basic primitive human terms. This motivates me to move beyond the limitations of terms (symbols of "virtual reality") that humans project, and try to limit definitions within.

Once I escaped that, I came a lot closer to understanding what I was. ;)

And shall I asked, then, with this intellectual philosophical configuration, how do you "understand what I/you was/are!"

The best to you!

3(C)+me
14th January 2015, 17:14
Meggings this really speaks to me what you wrote. I guess you can say these are the kinds of musings have come up for me too.
I have been having some very intense situations coming up and the question what I am going to do with this, how can I deal with this in a confident manner. This is what I posted on another thread put it does have something to do with this topic. When I happen to have a not so pleasant situation come up in this regard, I say to myself, in this pile of Sh#t I will find gold if I know where to look and if I keep at it, to say the my alchemical skills are being tested would be an understatement.

DeDukshyn
14th January 2015, 23:21
And shall I asked, then, with this intellectual philosophical configuration, how do you "understand what I/you was/are!"

The best to you!

In the video I posted Miguel says, that the outside dream, or outside "reality" is reflected in our minds like mirror, except for one thing, this mirror image in our mind is a distorted version, because it is always, always, fit to the framework of what "knowledge" we have inserted into our minds. Therefore the mere act of divisive labelling is nothing more than distortions of reality. This is fully true from my perspective. We each call this "mirror image" of reality in our minds, "our reality" - but it is not reality - it is the distorted image. Once something has been defined in human terms, that thing has not changed in the outside reality, but it has only changed in our minds through our ability to understand it as it relates to our definitions -- all virtual in the mind -- not actually in "reality" at all.

For example, if I point to a tree and ask you what that is, you will say "this is a tree". The proper reality is that we merely "call it" a tree. What does "tree" mean to you? Does it mean a giant oak? Does it mean a small evergreen shrub? Is it the embodiment of spirits of Gaia? Is it our source of clean air and oxygen? Is it a representation of the cycles of life and death? What if we ask an artist or a poet? What would they say? Now does any of this fully capture what a tree is? No, but I could go on and on; but one thing is for certain, no "definition" of a tree encompasses what a tree fully is or can be to all people - therefore the definition of a tree is a mere label, a distortion of what a tree really is. "This" is NOT a "Tree" -- but rather, the reality is, we call this a tree. get the difference? It's subtle, and that subtlety is hard to grasp this at first, but once done, this concept forever changes ones view of the world around us.

Humans tend to label and define things, and then relate to those labels and definitions, and not to the object represented - this is the way the human mind works, divide and label, divide and label. This process is less encompassing as you drill in further -- not more encompassing as to what the object really is. The mere act of doing so diminishes the subject.

This is why I am ok not knowing or caring what I am, it has been liberating immensely to come to this position. I am now no longer restricted by any definition myself or anyone can put upon me, because in the "real" reality, I am undefinable (as is everything), and I desire to align my mind and my thoughts with that reality and lessen the "distortions" in my mind by coming to understand that NONE of our labels and/or definitions are the things they represent; that they very inadequately describe these things they represent, and that our "knowledge" that creates these distortions is a mere tool in communication, and does not define any reality properly.

I choose to have relationships, in a sense, to the real reality, and my relationship with labels and definitions has shifted to relating to them as labels and definitions..

The root cause of this phenomenon is linguistically structured thought, which is programmed into each of us at a young age. Because we learn to think with language and discard all other forms of relating to our reality, our "virtual realities" become extremely limited; limited only to that which can be fit within one's current understanding within linguistically structured thought. I choose not to define myself by these limitations. And no matter what "definition" anyone comes up with for a "what am I?", I will still be undefinable. I will still be whatever I am in the "big outside reality" -- the only thing that changes is the distorted "virtual reality" in my (or others) mind, which for me, doesn't cut it and never will. :)

Another interesting phenomenon that humans do, is to have to "have a belief" on something. "Believe in God," or "I don't believe in God" -- we might ask this question to people and we all expect one answer or the other, or have created one answer or the other for ourselves. It's ok to not have a belief on the matter, especially if one doesn't have the full picture to be able to create a belief -- most people are in this latter category, if not all, yet how few people would say "I don't have a belief in that area at this time"? Yet when one does this, they have found a way to not distort that mirror image - Not having beliefs takes away that opportunity for distortion of our inner "reality". Hence I always say "believe nothing, consider everything". Another way to prevent this distortion is learning how to live in the "present moment".

The "knowledge" in a human mind distorts reality, I am glad to free everything in my mind from those distortions, and recognize the distortions for what they are; then one can have a relationship with "what is real" as opposed to "how I defined it".

Deega
15th January 2015, 00:04
And shall I asked, then, with this intellectual philosophical configuration, how do you "understand what I/you was/are!"

The best to you!

In the video I posted Miguel says, that the outside dream, or outside "reality" is reflected in our minds like mirror, except for one thing, this mirror image in our mind is a distorted version, because it is always, always, fit to the framework of what "knowledge" we have inserted into our minds. Therefore the mere act of divisive labelling is nothing more than distortions of reality. This is fully true from my perspective. We each call this "mirror image" of reality in our minds, "our reality" - but it is not reality - it is the distorted image. Once something has been defined in human terms, that thing has not changed in the outside reality, but it has only changed in our minds through our ability to understand it as it relates to our definitions -- all virtual in the mind -- not actually in "reality" at all.

For example, if I point to a tree and ask you what that is, you will say "this is a tree". The proper reality is that we merely "call it" a tree. What does "tree" mean to you? Does it mean a giant oak? Does it mean a small evergreen shrub? Is it the embodiment of spirits of Gaia? Is it our source of clean air and oxygen? Is it a representation of the cycles of life and death? What if we ask an artist or a poet? What would they say? Now does any of this fully capture what a tree is? No, but I could go on and on; but one thing is for certain, no "definition" of a tree encompasses what a tree fully is or can be to all people - therefore the definition of a tree is a mere label, a distortion of what a tree really is. "This" is NOT a "Tree" -- but rather, the reality is, we call this a tree. get the difference? It's subtle, and that subtlety is hard to grasp this at first, but once done, this concept forever changes ones view of the world around us.

Humans tend to label and define things, and then relate to those labels and definitions, and not to the object represented - this is the way the human mind works, divide and label, divide and label. This process is less encompassing as you drill in further -- not more encompassing as to what the object really is. The mere act of doing so diminishes the subject.

This is why I am ok not knowing or caring what I am, it has been liberating immensely to come to this position. I am now no longer restricted by any definition myself or anyone can put upon me, because in the "real" reality, I am undefinable (as is everything), and I desire to align my mind and my thoughts with that reality and lessen the "distortions" in my mind by coming to understand that NONE of our labels and/or definitions are the things they represent; that they very inadequately describe these things they represent, and that our "knowledge" that creates these distortions is a mere tool in communication, and does not define any reality properly.

I choose to have relationships, in a sense, to the real reality, and my relationship with labels and definitions has shifted to relating to them as labels and definitions..

The root cause of this phenomenon is linguistically structured thought, which is programmed into each of us at a young age. Because we learn to think with language and discard all other forms of relating to our reality, our "virtual realities" become extremely limited; limited only to that which can be fit within one's current understanding of linguistically structured thought. I choose not to define myself by these limitations. And no matter what "definition" anyone comes up with for a "what am I?", I will still be undefinable. I will still be whatever I am in the "big outside reality" -- the only thing that changes is the distorted "virtual reality" in my (or others) mind, which for me, doesn't cut it and never will. :)

Another interesting phenomenon that humans do, is to have to "have a belief" on something. "Believe in God," or "I don't believe in God" -- we might ask this question to people and we all expect one answer or the other, or have created one answer or the other for ourselves. It's ok not have a belief on the matter, especially if one doesn't have the full picture to be able to create a belief -- most people are in this latter category, if not all, yet how few people would say "I don't have a belief in that area at this time"?

The "knowledge" in a human mind distorts reality, I am glad to free everything in my mind from those distortions, and recognize the distortions for what they are; then one can have a relationship with "what is real" as opposed to "how I defined it".


Hey thanks Dedukshyn, I like your explanation, really interesting, I concur with you wholefully. But I feel that I was not clear enough on "Who I am?". I was not trying to define the question. My being French plays tricks on me often!

My purpose was to gather information pertaining to Who created us humans?, which type of ET were involved?, from what Constellation were they?, when (approx) this happened, why were we created?, questions that would help identify the Motherhood/Fatherhood (Who I am!) of humans. I was a bit of target pertaining to the title of the Tread though!

I have read Anton Parks, listen to Simon Parkes here, read a little of Zachary Stitchin, others but, there is a lot of members here that know a lot more about this, so I was inviting comments.

The best to you!

DeDukshyn
15th January 2015, 00:23
And shall I asked, then, with this intellectual philosophical configuration, how do you "understand what I/you was/are!"

The best to you!

In the video I posted Miguel says, that the outside dream, or outside "reality" is reflected in our minds like mirror, except for one thing, this mirror image in our mind is a distorted version, because it is always, always, fit to the framework of what "knowledge" we have inserted into our minds. Therefore the mere act of divisive labelling is nothing more than distortions of reality. This is fully true from my perspective. We each call this "mirror image" of reality in our minds, "our reality" - but it is not reality - it is the distorted image. Once something has been defined in human terms, that thing has not changed in the outside reality, but it has only changed in our minds through our ability to understand it as it relates to our definitions -- all virtual in the mind -- not actually in "reality" at all.

For example, if I point to a tree and ask you what that is, you will say "this is a tree". The proper reality is that we merely "call it" a tree. What does "tree" mean to you? Does it mean a giant oak? Does it mean a small evergreen shrub? Is it the embodiment of spirits of Gaia? Is it our source of clean air and oxygen? Is it a representation of the cycles of life and death? What if we ask an artist or a poet? What would they say? Now does any of this fully capture what a tree is? No, but I could go on and on; but one thing is for certain, no "definition" of a tree encompasses what a tree fully is or can be to all people - therefore the definition of a tree is a mere label, a distortion of what a tree really is. "This" is NOT a "Tree" -- but rather, the reality is, we call this a tree. get the difference? It's subtle, and that subtlety is hard to grasp this at first, but once done, this concept forever changes ones view of the world around us.

Humans tend to label and define things, and then relate to those labels and definitions, and not to the object represented - this is the way the human mind works, divide and label, divide and label. This process is less encompassing as you drill in further -- not more encompassing as to what the object really is. The mere act of doing so diminishes the subject.

This is why I am ok not knowing or caring what I am, it has been liberating immensely to come to this position. I am now no longer restricted by any definition myself or anyone can put upon me, because in the "real" reality, I am undefinable (as is everything), and I desire to align my mind and my thoughts with that reality and lessen the "distortions" in my mind by coming to understand that NONE of our labels and/or definitions are the things they represent; that they very inadequately describe these things they represent, and that our "knowledge" that creates these distortions is a mere tool in communication, and does not define any reality properly.

I choose to have relationships, in a sense, to the real reality, and my relationship with labels and definitions has shifted to relating to them as labels and definitions..

The root cause of this phenomenon is linguistically structured thought, which is programmed into each of us at a young age. Because we learn to think with language and discard all other forms of relating to our reality, our "virtual realities" become extremely limited; limited only to that which can be fit within one's current understanding of linguistically structured thought. I choose not to define myself by these limitations. And no matter what "definition" anyone comes up with for a "what am I?", I will still be undefinable. I will still be whatever I am in the "big outside reality" -- the only thing that changes is the distorted "virtual reality" in my (or others) mind, which for me, doesn't cut it and never will. :)

Another interesting phenomenon that humans do, is to have to "have a belief" on something. "Believe in God," or "I don't believe in God" -- we might ask this question to people and we all expect one answer or the other, or have created one answer or the other for ourselves. It's ok not have a belief on the matter, especially if one doesn't have the full picture to be able to create a belief -- most people are in this latter category, if not all, yet how few people would say "I don't have a belief in that area at this time"?

The "knowledge" in a human mind distorts reality, I am glad to free everything in my mind from those distortions, and recognize the distortions for what they are; then one can have a relationship with "what is real" as opposed to "how I defined it".


Hey thanks Dedukshyn, I like your explanation, really interesting, I concur with you wholefully. But I feel that I was not clear enough on "Who I am?". I was not trying to define the question. My being French plays tricks on me often!

My purpose was to gather information pertaining to Who created us humans?, which type of ET were involved?, from what Constellation were they?, when (approx) this happened, why were we created?, questions that would help identify the Motherhood/Fatherhood (Who I am!) of humans. I was a bit of target pertaining to the title of the Tread though!

I have read Anton Parks, listen to Simon Parkes here, read a little of Zachary Stitchin, others but, there is a lot of members here that know a lot more about this, so I was inviting comments.

The best to you!


Ahhh, our "physical genetic lineage" you mean?
That's an interesting subject for sure; I have a feeling though that even this is more simple than it has been made to appear at times, and don't discount the possibility of humans being far more involved in our ancient lineage than typical "ancient alien theorists" would have you believe. My 2 cents there. I am not an expert on that topic at the moment. :)

For me personally, all that sort of searching isn't as pertinent anymore, but I view examining things like that as more entertainment. Knowing that answer won't change who or what I am, or what I do or how I choose. We don't need that answer to change ourselves to be what we wish; I believe pretending we do, may well be a mere variation of the "saviour" mindset.

Deega
15th January 2015, 18:13
Ahhh, our "physical genetic lineage" you mean?
That's an interesting subject for sure; I have a feeling though that even this is more simple than it has been made to appear at times, and don't discount the possibility of humans being far more involved in our ancient lineage than typical "ancient alien theorists" would have you believe. My 2 cents there. I am not an expert on that topic at the moment. :)

For me personally, all that sort of searching isn't as pertinent anymore, but I view examining things like that as more entertainment. Knowing that answer won't change who or what I am, or what I do or how I choose. We don't need that answer to change ourselves to be what we wish; I believe pretending we do, may well be a mere variation of the "saviour" mindset.

Hey thanks again DeDukshyn, I like your 2nd paragraph.

But, if we would know for sure the Race responsible for our creation, we could go on trying to find other information pertaining to that type of Race (origin, existence, when on Earth, why to, why they created us, etc). I may be wrong though!

The best to you!

DeDukshyn
15th January 2015, 19:02
Ahhh, our "physical genetic lineage" you mean?
That's an interesting subject for sure; I have a feeling though that even this is more simple than it has been made to appear at times, and don't discount the possibility of humans being far more involved in our ancient lineage than typical "ancient alien theorists" would have you believe. My 2 cents there. I am not an expert on that topic at the moment. :)

For me personally, all that sort of searching isn't as pertinent anymore, but I view examining things like that as more entertainment. Knowing that answer won't change who or what I am, or what I do or how I choose. We don't need that answer to change ourselves to be what we wish; I believe pretending we do, may well be a mere variation of the "saviour" mindset.

Hey thanks again DeDukshyn, I like your 2nd paragraph.

But, if we would know for sure the Race responsible for our creation, we could go on trying to find other information pertaining to that type of Race (origin, existence, when on Earth, why to, why they created us, etc). I may be wrong though!

The best to you!

I'm pretty sure this stretch of the "human project" has us learning that we are the creators of this project, we are obviously incredible creators ... think about that for a minute ;) However, that answer will never be gained by looking at the physical world. As our minds are distorted mirrors to our physical world around us, the physical world is a distorted or reduced version of ethereal planes; our "creation" is a part of happenings on both these planes. So to look just to the physical plane, again, will give you merely a distortion of the real Truth - which can be reconciled by being able to view the physical and ethereal planes simultaneously; our ancient ancestors could do this, Toltec wisdom will tell us. The physical world is a world of appearances (the Tonal), and as some Nazarene guy claimed once, appearances are deceiving. This is why I look at study in these areas as more "entertainment". The real work is looking within, within our soul, our mind, so that we may come to recognize the distortions / illusions, thus revealing that which is real from that which is illusion.

I'm steering this right back into philosophy again aren't I? :P

Deega
15th January 2015, 20:04
[QUOTE=Deega;923554][QUOTE=DeDukshyn;923334]

I'm pretty sure this stretch of the "human project" has us learning that we are the creators of this project, we are obviously incredible creators ... think about that for a minute ;) However, that answer will never be gained by looking at the physical world. As our minds are distorted mirrors to our physical world around us, the physical world is a distorted or reduced version of ethereal planes; our "creation" is a part of happenings on both these planes. So to look just to the physical plane, again, will give you merely a distortion of the real Truth - which can be reconciled by being able to view the physical and ethereal planes simultaneously; our ancient ancestors could do this, Toltec wisdom will tell us. The physical world is a world of appearances (the Tonal), and as some Nazarene guy claimed once, appearances are deceiving. This is why I look at study in these areas as more "entertainment". The real work is looking within, within our soul, our mind, so that we may come to recognize the distortions / illusions, thus revealing that which is real from that which is illusion.

I'm steering this right back into philosophy again aren't I? :P


Thanks DeDukshyn, Yes! leading the way philosophically, but it’s great!

Hmm!, we are the creator of this project, with what we know today, probably so! But if you turn back thousand (10,000 or more) of years back, I’m not sure!, We were thought that human being were created by the Elohim (Bible) or other authors, a superior being was on the move.

Yes!, I concur with you that it ain’t by looking at the physical world that we may attain the knowledge within. To have a view of the physical seems(?) easy, but how do you go about your view of the ethereal, is it a meditative exercise where you concentrate on the ether?, or is it something completely different?

The best to you!

DeDukshyn
15th January 2015, 22:52
[QUOTE=Deega;923554][QUOTE=DeDukshyn;923334]

I'm pretty sure this stretch of the "human project" has us learning that we are the creators of this project, we are obviously incredible creators ... think about that for a minute ;) However, that answer will never be gained by looking at the physical world. As our minds are distorted mirrors to our physical world around us, the physical world is a distorted or reduced version of ethereal planes; our "creation" is a part of happenings on both these planes. So to look just to the physical plane, again, will give you merely a distortion of the real Truth - which can be reconciled by being able to view the physical and ethereal planes simultaneously; our ancient ancestors could do this, Toltec wisdom will tell us. The physical world is a world of appearances (the Tonal), and as some Nazarene guy claimed once, appearances are deceiving. This is why I look at study in these areas as more "entertainment". The real work is looking within, within our soul, our mind, so that we may come to recognize the distortions / illusions, thus revealing that which is real from that which is illusion.

I'm steering this right back into philosophy again aren't I? :P


Thanks DeDukshyn, Yes! leading the way philosophically, but it’s great!

Hmm!, we are the creator of this project, with what we know today, probably so! But if you turn back thousand (10,000 or more) of years back, I’m not sure!, We were thought that human being were created by the Elohim (Bible) or other authors, a superior being was on the move.

Yes!, I concur with you that it ain’t by looking at the physical world that we may attain the knowledge within. To have a view of the physical seems(?) easy, but how do you go about your view of the ethereal, is it a meditative exercise where you concentrate on the ether?, or is it something completely different?

The best to you!

To understand our origin history, one needs a more accurate view of it than we generally have currently. You’re really going to keep digging until I‘ve spilled all my secrets aren’t you ;)

Another problem that causes chaos in our understandings of origin is time itself. If we consider that our origins involve both equal considerations between what occurred in ethereal vs what occurred in physical, then we must also involve the conundrum of how time played a role in only one half of the equation, and the other half of the equation involves 3D time (some would call it “non-time”). Something we can’t understand with structured linear thought. So 10,000 years ago is a valid part of the equation on the physical plane, but it is not in the same sense a valid part of the equation when looking from the ethers or Nagual (as opposed to from the Tonal. The Nagual is the creative complex of the ethers from which all physical things come into being by – all physical things that have come into being are the Tonal – from the word “tone” meaning vibration which represents who all physical matter exists – via vibration).

It gets tricky doesn’t it? ;) Modern physics suggests that everything on this side of Plank’s constant is Tonal and everything on the other side is Nagual – so we are starting to get scientific terms that can relate to these very ancient terms – that the ancients already understood well, and tried to preserve the knowledge of for us – within these tidbits of preserved knowledge, the story of our origins start to emerge, but one has to think about it differently than they would if everything only happened on the physical side – which what we all try to do when we try to explain origins, because we simply don’t know any better.

I’ll try to write you a proper response to your question of “how access to ethereal information is gained” when I get home in a couple hours.

Shezbeth
15th January 2015, 23:23
The question of "Who am I" is actually very simple IMO.

I am You.

Thanks Shezbeth, hmm!, like this!, but how would you put it in motion?


The best to you!

Sorry for the delay. But - to answer your question - the motion is in the phrasing, though I admit I could have been more specific.

Lately I have been finding that it is all fine and good to assert one's self as being the divine consciousness manifest in a secular form, but this can tend to exalt one's self and neglect one's audience or listeners. In the interest of being increasingly recept-able to My audience then, I find it is equally - if not moreso - effective to seek to exalt them.

Forthwith, I am adopting a new strategy, where I assert that they are the divine consciousness manifest in a secular form, and that I am simply them; hence the phrase "I am You". (note the eminent capitalization)

Deega
16th January 2015, 00:10
[QUOTE=Deega;923608][QUOTE=DeDukshyn;923572][QUOTE=Deega;923554][QUOTE=DeDukshyn;923334]

To understand our origin history, one needs a more accurate view of it than we generally have currently. You’re really going to keep digging until I‘ve spilled all my secrets aren’t you ;)

Another problem that causes chaos in our understandings of origin is time itself. If we consider that our origins involve both equal considerations between what occurred in ethereal vs what occurred in physical, then we must also involve the conundrum of how time played a role in only one half of the equation, and the other half of the equation involves 3D time (some would call it “non-time”). Something we can’t understand with structured linear thought. So 10,000 years ago is a valid part of the equation on the physical plane, but it is not in the same sense a valid part of the equation when looking from the ethers or Nagual (as opposed to from the Tonal. The Nagual is the creative complex of the ethers from which all physical things come into being by – all physical things that have come into being are the Tonal – from the word “tone” meaning vibration which represents who all physical matter exists – via vibration).

It gets tricky doesn’t it? ;) Modern physics suggests that everything on this side of Plank’s constant is Tonal and everything on the other side is Nagual – so we are starting to get scientific terms that can relate to these very ancient terms – that the ancients already understood well, and tried to preserve the knowledge of for us – within these tidbits of preserved knowledge, the story of our origins start to emerge, but one has to think about it differently than they would if everything only happened on the physical side – which what we all try to do when we try to explain origins, because we simply don’t know any better.

I’ll try to write you a proper response to your question of “how access to ethereal information is gained” when I get home in a couple hours.


Thanks DeDukshyn, I don’t want to overburden you, you have a different perspective on the matter and I like to read it!, I feel that you are interested discussing the matter, I appreciate it!

Then, if I understand you correctly, the ethers (Nagual) have intelligent algorithm (my reflexion?) able to create life (Tonal), then who Is behind the Nagual?, what is it that update it?, upgrade this intelligent algorithm (hope it's respectful?), does it have a auto-generate function, and where does the ultimate intelligence (God) fit in here?, or other creative beings if there is an intelligence above the Nagual.


It gets tricky doesn’t it? Modern physics suggests that everything on this side of Plank’s constant is Tonal and everything on the other side is Nagual.

Yes!, very pleasing, is Nagual below the Plank’s constant or above. For the one who is below Plank, from my limited comprehension, it’s a state of omnipresence, a god like properties, do you see it that way?

The best to you!

13th Warrior
16th January 2015, 02:16
I see Justone has left the building; i'll post what i've been meaning to anyway.

The question asked is who am I?

I'll answer in the words of the boy Taliesin to the King:


"

"Primary chief bard am I to Elphin,
And my original country is the region of the summer stars;
Idno and Heinin called me Merddin,
At length every king will call me Taliesin.

I was with my Lord in the highest sphere,
On the fall of Lucifer into the depth of hell
I have borne a banner before Alexander;
I know the names of the stars from north to south;
I have been on the galaxy at the throne of the Distributor;
I was in Canaan when Absalom was slain;
I conveyed the Divine Spirit to the level of the vale of Hebron;
I was in the court of Don before the birth of Gwdion.
I was instructor to Eli and Enoc;
I have been winged by the genius of the splendid crosier;
I have been loquacious prior to being gifted with speech;
I was at the place of the crucifixion of the merciful Son of God;
I have been three periods in the prison of Arianrod;
I have been the chief director of the work of the tower of Nimrod;
I am a wonder whose origin is not known.

I have been in Asia with Noah in the ark,
I have seen the destruction of Sodom and Gomorra;
I have been in India when Roma was built,
I am now come here to the remnant of Troia.

I have been with my Lord in the manger of the ass:
I strengthened Moses through the water of Jordan;
I have been in the firmament with Mary Magdalene; p. 483
I have obtained the muse from the cauldron of Caridwen;
I have been bard of the harp to Lleon of Lochlin.
I have been on the White Hill, in the court of Cynvelyn,
For a day and a year in stocks and fetters,
I have suffered hunger for the Son of the Virgin,
I have been fostered in the land of the Deity,
I have been teacher to all intelligences,
I am able to instruct the whole universe.
I shall be until the day of doom on the face of the earth;
And it is not known whether my body is flesh or fish.

Then I was for nine months
In the womb of the hag Caridwen;
I was originally little Gwion,
And at length I am Taliesin."
- The Mabinogion

DeDukshyn
16th January 2015, 16:35
To understand our origin history, one needs a more accurate view of it than we generally have currently. You’re really going to keep digging until I‘ve spilled all my secrets aren’t you ;)

Another problem that causes chaos in our understandings of origin is time itself. If we consider that our origins involve both equal considerations between what occurred in ethereal vs what occurred in physical, then we must also involve the conundrum of how time played a role in only one half of the equation, and the other half of the equation involves 3D time (some would call it “non-time”). Something we can’t understand with structured linear thought. So 10,000 years ago is a valid part of the equation on the physical plane, but it is not in the same sense a valid part of the equation when looking from the ethers or Nagual (as opposed to from the Tonal. The Nagual is the creative complex of the ethers from which all physical things come into being by – all physical things that have come into being are the Tonal – from the word “tone” meaning vibration which represents who all physical matter exists – via vibration).

It gets tricky doesn’t it? ;) Modern physics suggests that everything on this side of Plank’s constant is Tonal and everything on the other side is Nagual – so we are starting to get scientific terms that can relate to these very ancient terms – that the ancients already understood well, and tried to preserve the knowledge of for us – within these tidbits of preserved knowledge, the story of our origins start to emerge, but one has to think about it differently than they would if everything only happened on the physical side – which what we all try to do when we try to explain origins, because we simply don’t know any better.

I’ll try to write you a proper response to your question of “how access to ethereal information is gained” when I get home in a couple hours.


Thanks DeDukshyn, I don’t want to overburden you, you have a different perspective on the matter and I like to read it!, I feel that you are interested discussing the matter, I appreciate it!

Then, if I understand you correctly, the ethers (Nagual) have intelligent algorithm (my reflexion?) able to create life (Tonal), then who Is behind the Nagual?, what is it that update it?, upgrade this intelligent algorithm (hope it's respectful?), does it have a auto-generate function, and where does the ultimate intelligence (God) fit in here?, or other creative beings if there is an intelligence above the Nagual.


It gets tricky doesn’t it? Modern physics suggests that everything on this side of Plank’s constant is Tonal and everything on the other side is Nagual.

Yes!, very pleasing, is Nagual below the Plank’s constant or above. For the one who is below Plank, from my limited comprehension, it’s a state of omnipresence, a god like properties, do you see it that way?

The best to you!

Sorry, I don't get as much time here as I sometimes would like. I do like this topic and have put much research and contemplation into it. I do have a bunch more to say, I'll try to find the time to piece together what I want to try to say.

Until then ...

Since below Planck is the Source (pun intended ;)) of the physical realm, from the low level algorithmic relationship, any change that originates on the other side of Planck's has almost "magical" effects on this side -- because we don't understand that relationship with our linear time thinking. Because the other side of Planck's has 3D time, to us that appeals as "omnipresent". Indeed ancient humans that could still access the other side of Planck's were "Godlike" - however, this is pretty much the natural intended state of humans. This is also where some of the confusion with E.T.s comes in; we consider that no human has god like powers or a god like consciousness, so our ancient ancestors and "gods" of our old religions must have been aliens or actual "Gods" of some sort. I believe that, as stated in some of our most ancient literature, there was a "Fall" of humankind, where over time, humans began to lose their ability to access the other side of Planck's constant, and those who were able to keep it intact became the others' "gods".

Nagual, being merely the "potential" for form, I believe would be everything on the other side of Planck's.

Out of time again, but this video that Justone posted here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78516-A-valid-theoretical-yet-scientific-explanation-of-how-metaphysics-may-work (which you probably already saw) helped me build a bit of a picture ... http://vimeo.com/17769179 It may be worth watching again ... lots of dots to connect, and more to connect when broader insight is gained.

Sunny-side-up
16th January 2015, 17:47
Sorry but, justone retired? what happen, did he say goodbye?

DeDukshyn
16th January 2015, 19:53
Sorry but, justone retired? what happen, did he say goodbye?

Subtly he did, in his last thread, the thread title was a sort of goodbye -- only confirmed by a post by Karelia in that thread. Other than that, nothing as far as I know. He will be missed, an interesting guy for sure.

Deega
16th January 2015, 20:20
[QUOTE=Deega;923554][QUOTE=DeDukshyn;923334]

Sorry, I don't get as much time here as I sometimes would like. I do like this topic and have put much research and contemplation into it. I do have a bunch more to say, I'll try to find the time to piece together what I want to try to say.

Until then ...

Since below Planck is the Source (pun intended ;)) of the physical realm, from the low level algorithmic relationship, any change that originates on the other side of Planck's has almost "magical" effects on this side -- because we don't understand that relationship with our linear time thinking. Because the other side of Planck's has 3D time, to us that appeals as "omnipresent". Indeed ancient humans that could still access the other side of Planck's were "Godlike" - however, this is pretty much the natural intended state of humans. This is also where some of the confusion with E.T.s comes in; we consider that no human has god like powers or a god like consciousness, so our ancient ancestors and "gods" of our old religions must have been aliens or actual "Gods" of some sort. I believe that, as stated in some of our most ancient literature, there was a "Fall" of humankind, where over time, humans began to lose their ability to access the other side of Planck's constant, and those who were able to keep it intact became the others' "gods".

Nagual, being merely the "potential" for form, I believe would be everything on the other side of Planck's.

Out of time again, but this video that Justone posted here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78516-A-valid-theoretical-yet-scientific-explanation-of-how-metaphysics-may-work (which you probably already saw) helped me build a bit of a picture ... http://vimeo.com/17769179 It may be worth watching again ... lots of dots to connect, and more to connect when broader insight is gained.

Hey Thanks again DeDukshyn, Dr Kathya Walter is one amazing author! When Justone presented the link the first time, I tried listening, but halfway, I fell asleep, this time around, I was able to go through it, loved it.

Too unfortunate that the other side of the Bubble isn't consciously available, imagine what we could made of it on the positive side of humanity? And she came up to the "love energy" and then to God expression. I think that it does complete part of my questioning, but time will bring some more!

Thanks again for the exchange, you had me search for logical explanation, unfortunately, I could have view Dr Walter video, but it never came to my mind since I didn't looked it over completely.

The best to you!

DeDukshyn
16th January 2015, 20:41
...

Then, if I understand you correctly, the ethers (Nagual) have intelligent algorithm (my reflexion?) able to create life (Tonal), then who Is behind the Nagual?, what is it that update it?, upgrade this intelligent algorithm (hope it's respectful?), does it have a auto-generate function, and where does the ultimate intelligence (God) fit in here?, or other creative beings if there is an intelligence above the Nagual.

...

I'm not 100% sure I have a detailed enough picture to answer all this, but I can try. My words should also probably not be taken too literally. While I try to make them as literal as I can, I often resort to using metaphors. I think better in terms of abstract concepts, pictures, fractals, etc. in viewing "how things work", and often I have a hard time seeing the picture with fullest detail, or, a hard time finding the words or terminology to relay what I mean. I just recently found out there was a term for Planck's constant - I previously knew that all vibrations at the most infinitesimal level that makes up our entire physical universe oscillate into and out of existence - or into and out of our ability to measure more accurately, but didn't know the term.

I have a couple potential thoughts on exactly what is on which side of Planck's, I think both may be valid for consideration. I think I need to draw a picture though ;) I see steps or "octaves" of vibration, where Source simplicity is stepped down into detail. Like a fractal that by changing the iteration levels, you can go from all encompassing simplicity, but the iteration variable (or whatever variable) acts as the step down transformer between levels of "roughness". I am getting into chaos theory now, hope I am not losing you, but it is the best analogy I can come up with (again, the drawing would help). initially, I am thinking this all occurs on the other side of Planck's, but I can give equal consideration to the idea that only Source exists on the other side of Plank's and everything past the First Cause (first ripple of creation) is on this side.

Currently I am leaning toward the former idea. Either way it doesn't affect my theory that much. When I get home (hopefully) I will be able to draw out what I see in my mind. This representation of "all existence" is something I have had in my mind for quite some time, but it's hard to verbalize, and, I found that Katya's video that Justone posted helped confirm and even add to that initial image I had; I found this very exciting, because I thought I was all alone in my ideas for the longest time, and really began to question them, as I had little reinforcement ...

This conversation will all come back around to our human "origins" - even with the Elohim references ;), eventually. Just getting some of the more obscure (but required) puzzle pieces laid out first.

To be soon continued ... ;)

DeDukshyn
16th January 2015, 21:00
Sorry, I don't get as much time here as I sometimes would like. I do like this topic and have put much research and contemplation into it. I do have a bunch more to say, I'll try to find the time to piece together what I want to try to say.

Until then ...

Since below Planck is the Source (pun intended ;)) of the physical realm, from the low level algorithmic relationship, any change that originates on the other side of Planck's has almost "magical" effects on this side -- because we don't understand that relationship with our linear time thinking. Because the other side of Planck's has 3D time, to us that appeals as "omnipresent". Indeed ancient humans that could still access the other side of Planck's were "Godlike" - however, this is pretty much the natural intended state of humans. This is also where some of the confusion with E.T.s comes in; we consider that no human has god like powers or a god like consciousness, so our ancient ancestors and "gods" of our old religions must have been aliens or actual "Gods" of some sort. I believe that, as stated in some of our most ancient literature, there was a "Fall" of humankind, where over time, humans began to lose their ability to access the other side of Planck's constant, and those who were able to keep it intact became the others' "gods".

Nagual, being merely the "potential" for form, I believe would be everything on the other side of Planck's.

Out of time again, but this video that Justone posted here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78516-A-valid-theoretical-yet-scientific-explanation-of-how-metaphysics-may-work (which you probably already saw) helped me build a bit of a picture ... http://vimeo.com/17769179 It may be worth watching again ... lots of dots to connect, and more to connect when broader insight is gained.

...
Too unfortunate that the other side of the Bubble isn't consciously available, imagine what we could made of it on the positive side of humanity? And she came up to the "love energy" and then to God expression. I think that it does complete part of my questioning, but time will bring some more!
...

The best to you!

We'll get it back, no worries there -- it is just a matter of time, and it may well be Dramatic!!! It has been foretold, that an "event" is coming - one with no precedence. This event has been called many names, in Christianity it is referred to as "The second coming" - yet Christians have no real clue what this really all about -- they have been taught otherwise. It has also been referred to as the "Rising of the Phoenix", and the ancients also had various terms for our conscious reconnection to the other side of Planck's.

Now when I see the plans of the extreme high level elites -- many are taking action to try to prevent or curtail this event, or to try to control it when it begins to occur (it has already begun to occur - but there will be a slow buildup at first), but the "elites" or "rulers" that are trying to prevent it obviously have no proper access to it anymore so have no understanding of what is really occurring. Those that have access to it do not fear it. What the elite have done is basically "stolen" and hidden all our ancient ancestors writings and depictions and explanations of all this so -- this is why so many ancient indications are references to explaining these advanced physics and prophecies -- they wanted us to know - the message was for the human race, but due to huge egos, arrogance and greed, the elite have tried hard to keep all this from us. This is my view and few share it with me. But I feel it is accurate. I think this also explains the madness in taking away our liberties and forcing harsh security everywhere. They are afraid of this event, all paradigms will be crushed and an entirely new reality will emerge, rendering the "reality" that they created for us to dust. The want to preserve what the feel they have created.

Again, few share this view with me, but just give it a consideration.

There's a few more puzzle pieces for you. ;)

Sunny-side-up
16th January 2015, 23:32
Sorry but, justone retired? what happen, did he say goodbye?

Subtly he did, in his last thread, the thread title was a sort of goodbye -- only confirmed by a post by Karelia in that thread. Other than that, nothing as far as I know. He will be missed, an interesting guy for sure.

Thank you DeDukshyn, I hope all is ok with him :wizard:

Deega
16th January 2015, 23:56
[QUOTE=Deega;923691]...

I have a couple potential thoughts on exactly what is on which side of Planck's, I think both may be valid for consideration. I think I need to draw a picture though ;) I see steps or "octaves" of vibration, where Source simplicity is stepped down into detail. Like a fractal that by changing the iteration levels, you can go from all encompassing simplicity, but the iteration variable (or whatever variable) acts as the step down transformer between levels of "roughness". I am getting into chaos theory now, hope I am not losing you, but it is the best analogy I can come up with (again, the drawing would help). initially, I am thinking this all occurs on the other side of Planck's, but I can give equal consideration to the idea that only Source exists on the other side of Plank's and everything past the First Cause (first ripple of creation) is on this side.


Thanks DeDukshyn, getting more and more deeply in the Quantum Field Theory(?), and here’s a few remarks.


I see steps or "octaves" of vibration, where Source simplicity is stepped down into detail. Like a fractal that by changing the iteration levels, you can go from all encompassing simplicity, but the iteration variable (or whatever variable) acts as the step down transformer between levels of "roughness". I am getting into chaos theory now, hope I am not losing you, but it is the best analogy I can come up with (again, the drawing would help). initially, I am thinking this all occurs on the other side of Planck's, but I can give equal consideration to the idea that only Source exists on the other side of Plank's and everything past the First Cause (first ripple of creation) is on this side.

When you write about “Source”, what do you mean?, God, god, Aether, Earth, others? Source simplicity is stepped down, do you mean that an “intent for/before creation” is on it’s way to manifestation? In my comprehension, a fractal has a preprogrammed continuous reproduction of itself into completion, is this section complement the first sentence?

The less that I know of Chaos Theory is that it’s behaviour is predictable if and only if all the a-priori conditions are known, in this example, do you know the a-priori conditions? Then I understand that in the Nagual (below Plank), the manifestation is chaotic. Following Dr Walter presentation, the below Plank has something Godly not chaotic!, more of an holistic manifestation inviting all that is, do you see it that way?, or a complement of this?

Many thanks for the follow-up!, the best to you!

Desire
18th January 2015, 04:39
That question is:

What is it about me... what has been going on with me that brings such experiences into my life?

It seems there is a direct and proportional relationship between one's true, honest and open willingness to look deep within as to how precise can be the answers one can obtain when asking this question.

I, personally... am in one of these stretches of truth seeking.

I suspect I am not alone and I hope that I am not alone.

Justone The good news is that the universe is moving you along. The old warlike times are running out fast. A new era is at hand and you and other men that feel as you

will graciouly enter into a new time, a new world and you and the others that share your feelings are the first wave. Go with the flow. love and peace Desire

Desire
18th January 2015, 04:59
Justone You are on the right road and also others that feel the same.The old era is quickly passing away. You and other men are feeling the new

positve vibration.the new vibration is affecting men more.Women have been closer to life and children, men are now realizing the same importance.

All is good ,stay on the journey.