Warp Drive Confirmed? EMDrive Warp Field Works In A Vacuum

[Mark]

Of interest to me: Who is Roger Shawyer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Shawyer)? His Wikepedia page states that he "...conducted aerospace research and development work in the defense sector in his early career". Does anyone know anything else about him or his company, Satellite Propulsion Research Ltd, which was "... financed with private investments, grants, and commercial contacts"?



Warp Drive Confirmed? EMDrive Warp Field Works In A Vacuum (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/140670-NASA-Confirms-The-EMDrive-Warp-Field-Still-Generates-Works-In-A-Vacuum)

New tests show that NASA's EMDrive produces thrust in a vacuum - which means warp drive spaceships might be in our future.

Earlier this week (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/140606-NASA-May-Have-Accidentally-Stumbled-Across-Warp-Fields) we learned that the EMDrive - a propulsion device that already breaks rules of physics (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/136568-Physics-Defying-Space-Drive-Confirmed-by-NASA-May-Revolutionize-Spaceflight) - might actually be generating warp fields. If true it's absolutely amazing news that could enable space travel. But science urged caution. There was still a possibility the data was flawed because the EMDrive test wasn't conducted in a vacuum. So while the reasonable instinct is to get excited, we need to wait for more information.

Now NASA has completed that vacuum test. The results were the same. The chances of warp drives in our future just increased exponentially.

NASASpaceFlight has posted a detailed breakdown of the technology (http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/04/evaluating-nasas-futuristic-em-drive/), but in short - the EMDrive defies science to the point of being near-magic. First of all, it generates thrust in violation of the law of conservation of momentum. More importantly, when you fire lasers through its resonance chamber those beams appear to move faster than light. One possibility is that the EMDrive is generating a small warp field, technology that has widely been considered science fiction for decades.

Read more ... (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/140670-NASA-Confirms-The-EMDrive-Warp-Field-Still-Generates-Works-In-A-Vacuum)

[Matt P]

Well, we know they've had "warp drive" for a long time so does this mean they are beginning to release it to the public? Maybe it's just me but anything like this that doesn't include a bit more truth is a little suspect, especially anything from NASA...but I'm hoping for the best.

Matt

[Mark]

This is my thinking as well. That the technology is extant, and being released now in preparation for a seminal technological shift. I've been observing tech developments for decades but never has it been in overdrive as it seems to be now. So many new things coming out, from Elon Musk's developments of the hyperloop and the home battery to this, to the pervasive evocation of green technologies and devices seemingly well past the development stage as well as the many developments in the search for extraterrestrial life and our understanding of the universe around us.

Anything like this? What do you mean? Multiple nations have tested this technology. Despite the pervasive belief that NASA does not serve human interests, that level of suspicion doesn't hold up when the announcement is made so publicly. It speaks, rather, of a jump-off into a new era of development and dissemination.

[Tesseract]

Trying to recall something from reading about it many years ago.. There were two middle aged friends who, by their own means, embarked on a project to build a gravity altering device which was, at its core, a ring with a reflective inner coating, and a light source (I assume a laser) that sent light into the ring where it presumably reflected around and around. The premise was that gravity bends light according to the science of relativity, and therefore it might be possible to use light to alter gravity. Unfortunately one of the people died unexpectedly, and he was the 'brains' behind the project, and the project essentially died with him.

Bouncing microwaves around a resonance cavity isn't too far removed from bouncing light around a ring, so this story reminded me of that. It doesn't really agree with the idea that the EM drive uses quantum vacuum flux particles to preserve the conservation of momentum principle. It is however, more consistent with the idea that the EM drive is warping space using light (microwaves).

[Ernie Nemeth]

I wonder if the way a resonance chamber actually works has anything to do with them talking about quantum vacuum effects.

From memory: A resonant chamber has a "natural" frequency attributable to it. Sort of like a tuning fork. If a beam of coherent light, a laser, with the proper wavelength is pointed into the chamber the light waves become trapped inside, bouncing from wall to wall (front to back). Since all the waves are already coherent (of the same wavelength and frequency) they travel from wall to wall in whole number sets of oscillations correcting their paths to conform to the structure's shape. The cone shape compresses the wave, forcing it to "jump" to higher harmonics of the original wavelength. If properly shaped, a resonance chamber can produce relatively low thrust, but for prolonged periods because of its high efficiency. By placing rings of magnets along the axis at the short end, and using electrons instead of light, a much higher thrust can be achieved.

So, if the chamber was to somehow be tuned to a harmonic of the Planck length, with a complementary frequency, maybe it can create a quantum cascade effect noticeable on the macro scale...

[amor]

Based on the premise that we are in the mind of God who created all things OUT OF LIGHT, why not electromagnetic waves which are a part of light. As to WARP motion, in my view that is only moving the craft in such a way, that you move ahead of the changing angle of gravitational pull from the nearest body exerting such force, say the sun, until you move away from both the earth and the sun and then are subject to the next larger gravitational orbit, and by using the same strategy, you move out of the pull of that body. Essentially, the celestial bodies are moving at great speeds and you are letting them go on their way. Therefore, you appear to be the one moving at celestial speeds away from the planets, suns, galaxies, etc. The concept uses Pythagoras' 3,4, 5, right angle. It takes 8 minutes for the sun's signal to reach earth. When the sun has moved (in a descending spiral expressed by the theorem)
the next incremental pull from the sun comes from a slightly different angle. It is in this incremental interval that the ship must exert its force at 45 degrees away from earth to transcribe an arc, moving away from the sun's pull and the earth's. Repeating this concept eventually moves the ship at galactic speeds; this is what I call traveling at WARP SPEED.

[ghostrider]

Well, we know they've had "warp drive" for a long time so does this mean they are beginning to release it to the public? Maybe it's just me but anything like this that doesn't include a bit more truth is a little suspect, especially anything from NASA...but I'm hoping for the best.

Matt if they admit they have warp drive , that means they have made a giant leap in a different mode of travel meaning warp drive is old news to them ... I bet they have learned to use wormholes and don't even need warp drive anymore ...

[apokalypse]

can we combined this with other thread(projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?81888-Has-NASA-just-discovered-warp-drive&p=957193) or make it as one thread? We all know in here they already have those technology and expected to happen...

this is only way to release the technology or disclosure in form of "Discovery/Invention" otherwise people explode that Controllers of Planet Earth hiding advance tech from us.

[Omni]

This is exciting news! Soon as we can travel to other star systems publicly, that very well could be a trigger for global first contact :) (unless its all NASA and they just say its all barren lol)

[huyi82]

Well, we know they've had "warp drive" for a long time so does this mean they are beginning to release it to the public? Maybe it's just me but anything like this that doesn't include a bit more truth is a little suspect, especially anything from NASA...but I'm hoping for the best.

Matt

exactly, when i read about NASA discovering warp drive technology by "accident" i knew it was BS, of course they knew about it all along, they probably don't even use warp drive technology anymore thats why they are letting us know about it, they have stargates all over the place and atom transporters and travel whenever they want.

i bet virgin galactic and that richard branson guy trying to commercialize holidays into space is gutted, his ships are pretty much obsolete now, he better rethink his plans before his whole thing is a failure.

[Carmody]

If you go tho Paul's thread on the nano layering technology and my foray into craft design, you'll see what is very likely the essentials on the hardware design.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?79986-Stunning-new-advance-in-metallurgy-nano-coated-steel-stronger-and-more-durable&highlight=nano

I'll just quietly say that they are both likely to be in violation of a patent......... :whistle: :tape:

I gots a little tiny bit of Russian blood in me... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb0QLxcvowk)

[Tesseract]

I wonder if the way a resonance chamber actually works has anything to do with them talking about quantum vacuum effects.

From memory: A resonant chamber has a "natural" frequency attributable to it. Sort of like a tuning fork. If a beam of coherent light, a laser, with the proper wavelength is pointed into the chamber the light waves become trapped inside, bouncing from wall to wall (front to back). Since all the waves are already coherent (of the same wavelength and frequency) they travel from wall to wall in whole number sets of oscillations correcting their paths to conform to the structure's shape. The cone shape compresses the wave, forcing it to "jump" to higher harmonics of the original wavelength. If properly shaped, a resonance chamber can produce relatively low thrust, but for prolonged periods because of its high efficiency. By placing rings of magnets along the axis at the short end, and using electrons instead of light, a much higher thrust can be achieved.

So, if the chamber was to somehow be tuned to a harmonic of the Planck length, with a complementary frequency, maybe it can create a quantum cascade effect noticeable on the macro scale...

Ernie, I was just thinking about your last sentence and had a funny thought. The dimensions of the chamber have to be a harmonic of the Planck length no matter what, no?

[Michael Moewes]

Reverse Engenering as its best !

Live healthy and vegan

[Ernie Nemeth]

I'm no expert. I just keep a set of facts from a broad range of topics in my head for assimilating new data - especially engineering principles.

The Planck length is considered the shortest possible length in this reality. There are a number of avenues to arrive at the specific length (red shift measurements for one). Although the Planck length is small, very small, it is a discrete length. Any length can have multiples of it that are a unique set of numbers. So, no, not any number is a harmonic of the Planck length.

This is also obvious from the quantum theories since electrons literally jump from one energy state to another without ramping up between those two states (between those two states there is no intermediate state, or orbital path). The energy required to move an electron from one state to another is another way to determine the Planck length.

That layer technique is so elegant. It still needs the proper theory and mathematics though, to work the layers right and get the desired result. But the idea is to sort of naturally coax out that 1 in a million chance event and then gently coax out a whole array of events that trigger even more events - just like a runaway fusion reactor but without the deleterious effects. A Cascade Effect. Not necessarily a catalyst but increasing the 1 in a million event a million-fold so it is happening continuously and observably.

[Mark]

The pushback is ever real. In the interest of full exploration this article should be included. I find it is filled with hyperbole and "feelings", which are fine in their place but not necessary when discussing science. It is the general nitpicking that is involved in finding bits and pieces and then pulling them apart with a bunch of could haves and would haves. On the cusp of science, those invested in the mainstream must defend their paradigm. It's all good. Let the water balloon fights begin.

Did NASA Validate an “Impossible” Space Drive? In a Word, No. (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/outthere/2014/08/06/nasa-validate-imposible-space-drive-word/#.VUVcMqnZWqr)

Physicist John Baez has another, more colorful word to describe the spate of recent reports about a breakthrough space engine that produces thrust without any propellant. The word starts with “bull–.” I won’t finish it, this being a family-friendly web site and all. Baez himself has softened his tone and now calls it “baloney,” though his sentiment (https://plus.google.com/app/basic/stream/z13gzfm4xt2tuxehl04chvywcofjhhzhwbk) remains the same: The laws of physics remain intact, and the “impossible” space drive is, as far as anyone can tell, actually impossible.

The story begins several years back with a British inventor named Roger Shawyer and his EmDrive (http://www.emdrive.com/), a prototype rocket engine which he claimed generated thrust by bouncing microwaves around in an enclosed metal funnel. Since no mass or energy emerged from the engine, Shawyer’s claim was another way of saying that he’d found a way to violate the conservation of momentum. In Baez’s words, “this is about as plausible as powering a spaceship by having the crew push on it from the inside.” Shawyer argued that he was exploiting a loophole within general relativity. Baez (http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/) calls his explanation “mumbo jumbo.”

Everything in science is open to questioning, of course, but nobody is going to throw out all the textbooks on the say-so of a single inventor trying to raise money for his company, SPR Ltd. Conservation of momentum is one of the most fundamental and thoroughly confirmed principles in physics. The EmDrive therefore got little notice outside of the “weird science” web sites. Last year, a Chinese group reported success with a similar device, prompting another blip of fringe coverage but little more.

Then Guido Fetta (a self-described (http://www.rachelsvineyard.org/PDF/Fettas.pdf) “sales and marketing executive with more than 20 years of experience in the chemical, pharmaceutical and food ingredient industries”) built a third version of the EmDrive, renamed the Cannae Drive. Fetta convinced a sympathetic group of researchers at the Eagleworks Laboratories, part of NASA’s Johnson Space Center, to give it a test. The results were maybe, tentatively, a little bit encouraging. And that is when the nonexistent propellant really hit the fan.


A number of publications that should have known better threw caution to the wind. “Nasa validates ‘impossible’ space drive” was the headline in an online story (http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-07/31/nasa-validates-impossible-space-drive) by WiredUK. The author, David Hambling, declared that an engine like the EmDrive could “take astronauts to Mars in weeks rather than months,” and even managed to work in nationalistic hand-wringing about “another great British invention that someone else turned into a success.” Soon the madness crossed the pond; “Space Engine Breaks Laws of Physics,” declared (http://www.popularmechanics.com/how-to/blog/pmam-impossible-space-engine-2482607) Popular Mechanics. “EmDrive is an Engine That Breaks the Laws of Physics and Could Take Us to Mars,” summarized (http://mashable.com/2014/08/02/emdrive-mars-momentum/) Mashable.

Read more ... (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/outthere/2014/08/06/nasa-validate-imposible-space-drive-word/#.VUVcMqnZWqr)

[Carmody]

I'm no expert. I just keep a set of facts from a broad range of topics in my head for assimilating new data - especially engineering principles.

The Planck length is considered the shortest possible length in this reality. There are a number of avenues to arrive at the specific length (red shift measurements for one). Although the Planck length is small, very small, it is a discrete length. Any length can have multiples of it that are a unique set of numbers. So, no, not any number is a harmonic of the Planck length.

This is also obvious from the quantum theories since electrons literally jump from one energy state to another without ramping up between those two states (between those two states there is no intermediate state, or orbital path). The energy required to move an electron from one state to another is another way to determine the Planck length.

That layer technique is so elegant. It still needs the proper theory and mathematics though, to work the layers right and get the desired result. But the idea is to sort of naturally coax out that 1 in a million chance event and then gently coax out a whole array of events that trigger even more events - just like a runaway fusion reactor but without the deleterious effects. A Cascade Effect. Not necessarily a catalyst but increasing the 1 in a million event a million-fold so it is happening continuously and observably.

the 'electron' pops in and out of our reality, it could be seen as the complex vectoral spin motion of a wave pairing.

when the vectoral complex spin meets up with our particular dimensional or angular viewpoint, it pops into our reality.

think of a complex spin pair of two dimensional waves, an inne and an outie, in almost perfect balance. (*slightly* out of balance, as it is our reality as a protrusion, or averaged reality)


http://pad2.whstatic.com/images/thumb/7/7e/Play-The-Cat%27s-Cradle-Game-Step-22-preview-Version-2.jpg/670px-Play-The-Cat%27s-Cradle-Game-Step-22-preview-Version-2.jpg

Think of it is strings, if it helps, and our 'reality' is a viewpoint position... of all those string pairings/crossings. From such simple pairings/crossings, any form of complex vibration and energetics can arise. Including all matter, time, energy, pH, electricity, lattice networks, gas, black holes, you name it.

As they change in spin and energetic spin geometry, we see them appear, in our reality.... and disappear, like a lighthouse light seen from a specific location.

The specific location were we 'quantum statistically exist', is the place the given individual lighthouse light 'appears', and then disappears.

Our reality is made out of a quantum statistical average of spins, in aggregate. It is a VIEWPOINT, a POSITION, nothing more.

Which is why that the speed of light appears to be a limit, as it is a fundamental limit of one end of the scale of our viewpoint resonance average.

The range, is the point where the electron pops in...and then pops out. Which also illustrates the basis of the holographic situation....

The astral planes and other dimensions are simply other accumulated energetic patterns, as a viewpoint/reality.

They are tied to this point, through the singularity fulcrum in the expression of the 2d fields pairing points.

This is not the exact correct explanation, but it is close enough to get the idea and understand the connectivity and the points of integration and manipulation.

Most importantly, it is close enough to understand in general... and not need the mathematics..., which (mathematics) is like holding the truth back from people by writing it in private/secret languages that no one can understand.

[Mark]

It seems those "quantum vacuum effects" are where the issue lies. Since this is the cusp of known science, there are many who will rise up in defense. It will require a public and formal testing by a body charged with such to bring this out at a level of scientific acceptance that would satisfy the most vociferous of critics. That it works, still is at issue, apparently. Those scientists in other countries and the tests done by private entities are not enough.

That it is possible is something we in the alternative community take for granted considering the things we generally believe are true. That we've got entities like The Carmody on our side to help us break down the math with easy-to-follow language helps.

:sun: