Choice Point: Escape the web? Or Hunt the Spider?

[Curt]

I've hit a wall, I guess you could say. It was a long time coming.

Before I belonged to Avalon I worked for a holistic health expo company. I met psychics and healers and shamans- lots of interesting people.

In the years since, many have been arrested and convicted of various crimes: one, an angel communicator and 'metaphysical doctor' for defrauding her state out of 2.7 million dollars; she used her day job (caring for vulnerable special needs children) to bilk state funds and build herself a mansion.

Another Mohawk 'shaman' was recently revealed not to be Native American, to have fabricated his entire story, and to have defrauded the state of NY out of housing payments. He also swindled folk in Europe out of thousands.

Another went to jail for murder.

Another man, a 'spiritualist' reverend told me at one event that 'he didn't care about any of the people he talked to, and he was just there for the money.

Then he proceeded to say he kept his hair long and wore all his jewellery because women liked it- it brought them in. And then he said, 'most of the women are here because they hate men....I don't care...I take their money.'

He tried to get me involved, thought I'd be great for his scam- a clean-cut young guy; he told me I just needed to lose a bit of weight and work on my 'communication' skills and I could make a ton of money.

Still others were heart-centred serene types in their booths at the show, but behind the scenes were nasty, cutting and as cut-throat as you'd see in any business world setting.

Other of these holistic folk tried to sell me on various miracle-juice pyramid schemes.

Another 'healer' I used to sell advertising for recently left his cancer-ridden wife for a younger woman.

And the ‘metaphysical’ journal I used to write for is now trying to charge 'writers' a fee for the privilege to submit their work to be published.

Now, after many years, I'm pretty disillusioned.

When I look at the themes emerging from alt media and on alt forums, I see shams galore: an alien-agenda insider who constantly threatens people who disagree with his message of 'peace'; fake liberty champions and common law advocates who want to try the queen and the pope in special tribunals that don't exist; then there are the obvious shills pulling for one 'gang' or the other- people paid to write for or against Israel- for or against the Vatican- for or against Ron Paul- Pro Scientology or anti Scientology, pro or anti Russia.

Then there are the people campaigning against child molestation who are using faked confessions of obviously coached kids to do it, thus muddying the waters for legitimate campaigners.

And I ask myself, 'cui bono?'

I've noticed the same stories making the rounds on all alt media channels, nearly simultaneously- posted by people using willowy, airy, light-hearted avatars.

Their words are silky and sweet, but turn cold and hard as steel when any concerns about the veracity of their claims are raised.

It’s all led me to a tentative conclusion: I think alt media is one tool, among many, being used to gin up chaos and break down ‘culture’ to prepare us for a kind of controlled demolition and stage-managed rebirth.

I suspect it's a coordinated movement being brought to us by the same culture-creators that brought us, among other things, 9-11, LSD, and the centrally planned revolution of the 1960's. And with the aid of the Internet, it's happening all over the planet at breakneck speed.

The demolition will be real, even if it's totally scripted and all the key players are actors.

Escaping the mainstream matrix, to the extent I’ve achieved it, was worthwhile; but alt media is another matrix nested within the larger one.

It's a big spider's web that I've been thrashing around in for years. I've found some useful information in the web, but the spider's got a real good read on me at this point, too.

I'm okay with that. I've met some good folk, including many of you.

But I feel like I’m at a choice point. Are efforts best spent on escaping the web?

Or is there spider hunting to be done?

http://static01.nyt.com/images/2013/12/22/arts/22SPIDERS1_SPAN/22SPIDERS1_SPAN-videoSixteenByNine1050.jpg

[Hervé]

This guy went for the spiders...


RFT6_KVd_ro

... got himself freshly assassinated (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?69621-Ukraine-Crimea-Syria-Israel-Iran-Putin-and-World-War-III&p=963795&viewfull=1#post963795) a few days ago...

[Apulu]

I haven't been on here in quite a while. This is in large part because of being really busy recently, but also it's been a building frustration that the more I read (here and elswhere), the more disillusioned I become with the general 'state' that I see. Ahhh, phew: then I read something like this, and I'm relieved.

I think you're dead-on. Some of the most seemingly switched on people are sometimes, if not often, actually the most lost. I could be one of them I suppose. So many people on here and everywhere will attack at the first hint of a perceived grievance. And all of those agencies of confusion, I feel, are almost certainly acting in precisely the way you describe, to create more confusion, and more people following false messages and promises. Those agencies would be missing a trick if they weren't.

What can we do about this? More and more, I keep coming back to this: the only thing actually worth doing is growing up. Laurence (that's me), please remember that you are on a mission to become responsible for everything you think, everything you feel, everything you say, and everything you do. The world is in a mess: take responsibility for yourself. Somebody was nasty to you: take responsibility for how you feel about it, and don't blame them for a thing.

I'm convinced that self responsibility is the one thing that the forces you're talking about can't touch (ok, and conciousness itself), and I feel it's the one thing that humanity will have to learn if it's to move forward at all. Che Gevara: "No revolution of change will ever be successful, unless people themselves change". This has all been said before. It's worth repeating.

[Roisin]

I've hit a wall, I guess you could say. It was a long time coming.

Before I belonged to Avalon I worked for a holistic health expo company. I met psychics and healers and shamans- lots of interesting people.
...
...
But I feel like I’m at a choice point. Are efforts best spent on escaping the web?

Or is there spider hunting to be done?



Could you please back up your claims about those healers wrt them being arrested and so on with legit documentation/links to help us verify the information you are sharing here? thanks

[Flash]

Curt, I would change the thread title if I were you for: Reality hits in, intelligent regrouping and down to earth evolution sets in.

I completely agree with what you say.

Guys, there is so few of yous up there, responsible of their own findings, emotionally understanding AND with critical analysis capabilities, can I marry you?:bigsmile::blushing:

Roisin, I could find most of what Curt talks about on the web, I have seen the same over time.For half of it, I know whom he refers to.

[Dennis Leahy]

Hey Curt, another superb, thought-provoking post from you. And, though our specific experiences are not equal, our arrival at the same crossroads is. Sort of paralleling what you've said about the new-age/healers generally being a sham, I have found political activists to be mostly...well, "sham" may not be exactly the right word, but disingenuous in that they HAVE to see that they are simply creating noise that no one in power is listening to, strategies that cannot work, and weak plans that would not really change anything. And the crossroads: after about 5 years trying to spur a citizen's movement to oust the minions of the Elite from power and prevent the Elite from controlling elections and governance - and getting nowhere - do I keep trying, or give up and focus on family and homesteading...maybe even expatriate.

Thanks much for your post. I'd love to meet you in person: you're interesting, have integrity, are honest, and are compassionate. Whichever fork in the road you take, keep in touch.

[RunningDeer]

Are efforts best spent on escaping the web? Rather than expend energy on escaping, I focus, listen, and follow through moment to moment in the world I continue to create.

For now, I don’t have solution for the bigger concerns. But what I’ve adopted and live is it’s more than me discovering that solutions are inside. It’s the inner knowing that when they’re ready to surface they just do. My job is to pay attention. And even those times when 'the fear brakes' make me want to come to a full stop, I still follow through.

I don’t put focus on escaping the web, rather I’m my own medicine woman. I’m my own personal trainer, researcher, artist, technician, teacher, bookkeeper, healer…

How that helps in the greater scheme is that critical point of by living in present awareness, our combined awareness mergers and the larger solutions will be plucked out of the ethers of that larger within that we're all created from.

<3

[Curt]

Hi Roisin,

Yes, I could. But, no, I won't.

It's beyond the scope of this thread to name and shame people.

[joeecho]

http://static01.nyt.com/images/2013/12/22/arts/22SPIDERS1_SPAN/22SPIDERS1_SPAN-videoSixteenByNine1050.jpg

Thank you for sharing your experiences here. I have not read a perspective quite like yours but I have long suspected of one. It seems you could write a book from your perspective that would be an interesting read.

When I read your experiences detail here, it reminds me of Alice tumbling down the rabbit hole.

Granted, the spider is a 'soul' trapper but it is worth noting that the spider is trapped in a web of it's own making as well.

[Dennis Leahy]

I've hit a wall, I guess you could say. It was a long time coming.

Before I belonged to Avalon I worked for a holistic health expo company. I met psychics and healers and shamans- lots of interesting people.
...
...
But I feel like I’m at a choice point. Are efforts best spent on escaping the web?

Or is there spider hunting to be done?



Could you please back up your claims about those healers wrt them being arrested and so on with legit documentation/links to help us verify the information you are sharing here? thanksRoisin, (as a mod), I almost deleted your post entirely (I did trim the quoted material down and reduced the screamingly large, accusatory, font size.)

You completely missed the point of Curt's thread. Maybe go back and read the opening post again, and try to find out what Curt is saying. Any further derailment of this thread will be either deleted or split off. :focus:

[Roisin]

Sorry dennis, i'll try to do better next time.

[Roisin]

deleted post

[gripreaper]

Hello Curt,

I‘ve so enjoyed your presence and your writing here at Avalon over the years, and this thread is no exception. I too had a moment such as yours a few weeks ago here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?82127-To-be-perfectly-clear-from-the-gripreaper) although I expressed it a bit differently.

Yes, the alternative media is fraught with the same misfortune that mainstream media faces, and so is the whole spiritual movement fraught with the same problems. Any time you have duality you will see both polarities.

My question to you is: Do you also see the great posts in the alt media and the great empathic writers and healers? I can honestly say, in my experience over the last fifteen years, that I have met some incredible healers whose intentions are pure and their modalities have helped hundreds of people. I will also say, without the help of some of these healers I would not be where I am today, and would not have been able to do the clearing in my energy field without them.

The downside to all of this, is that we are still operating from the place of scarcity and exchange our energies within a fiat debt system of commerce, and therefore, even the empathic healers who are of pure intent still need to charge for their services, which makes it a business, which makes it subject to the Uniform Commercial Code and the fiat system of exchange.

Very few avatars, as I like to call them, have the presence in their energy fields to manifest at will and operate outside of the fiat system, so discernment is key. Although healers and writers are operating within this system, I still look towards a new paradigm of abundance and true empathy and encourage those who are intentioning this shift and working through the bugs of the transition.

Do I get burned at times? Yes I do, yet to me it's worth the risk.

[Roisin]

It's against the law of the Universe to charge a fee for services of that nature because by charging a fee, they risk losing their gift. This is a well known FACT. This is why authentic psychics, empaths etc only humbly request a donation but cannot charge a fee.

Many have had to learn the hard way to find that out. The authentic ones have day jobs to cover their living expenses as their donations are not enough to live on as it's only extra pin money and nothing more.

This also explains why authentic psychics cannot use their gifts to win money at gambling or the lottery.
For example, Uri Geller who is someone I have personally met, one time went to a casino with friends and won thousands of dollars only for it all to be lost on the way home when the bag full of cash somehow burst open whereby causing all of the cash to be blown away in the wind.

[loveoflife]

Thanks Curt.

What you say does remind me about What Mark Passio has to say about the New Age in relation with his experiences with Satanism.

You have voiced suspicions i have had for a while now though have not had the experience or evidence to back up, though i have been involved in 'the new age movement', and seeing through much of it raised many suspicions.

I have noticed there are those who claim to have a spiritual and peaceful message yet react very negatively when challenged and a power struggle often ensues ranging from defense to attack and a fight for the last post/word. Its better to just accept criticism and let it go.

I have to admit being sucked into these merry-go-rounds of reaction myself. There is something about forums that can bring out my negative shadow, its both a blessing and a curse, at least its something i can learn from.

Its just a shame that disillusionment is often the lesson learned. I suppose that is the price for honest awareness in these times in which we live.

Most of that which i held in high esteem has been revealed to be just a facade and a pretense. This does call me to be reliant upon myself, sceptical and more discerning about everything else.

It is encouraging though to see more people especially new agers becoming aware of many of the spiritual and alternative fallacies that abound.

Its not so much about finding the truth, but more of uncovering it in a process of discovering what is not true. In much the same way as i find out more about who i am by finding out who i am not.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

We're all swimming in an ocean called the Human Condition.
Every once in a while a large Human Issue rises up and tries to drown us.
The people who can't swim just cling on -- all we can do sometimes is keep our heads above the water.
Sometimes what defines us the most is our extreme misery.

I know how you feel regarding the Web. People who write put SO MUCH of themselves out in the open.
How do you recall a thing like that? Just reel it back in like fishing bait? Sadly, it's not that simple!

A lot of people are feeling pressure this week due to the NSA stuff.
Personally, I think if their powers are stripped, they will focus more perhaps on the info they've already collected.
That could mean a lot of things for people who were active on the internet before their powers are limited.
What I'm saying is, yes, there is concern about grudges etc. because of what we've been up to.

However there is also a great value on the information you've gleaned from your time on the Internet.

There is actually a whole faction of E-Readers out there who like blogs.
I don't mean a blog like mine, where it's a bunch of doom and forecasting.

I mean a real, professional, tight, "together" kind of blog,
a high-class product because it's YOURS.
People love that stuff. And they love honest individuals.

I guess what I am saying is, if you do tire of the Alt Community,
you have an amazing intelligence and could start your own website;
not a forum, but a news blog/opinion site --

why do I say this? Because other people like you would read it,
they are also sick of group think.

Hope this helped and wasn't just a rant :P

[Agape]

I have the same feeling to this all Curt , and statements I've made already ..

it's been disenchanting to speak something as precious as uncommon truth , yet nothing less than truth to crowd , no , a world full of spiders and flies , and praying mantises .
It could possibly satisfy blabbering 2 year old toddler .

Being dragged in , around, in and out , and advised by every forthcoming teen-ager how you can do it better , and how the world is full of individuals like you.
One of them asked me discretely what books did I ever read and whether it's 'pain for me to read book in English' . Not a teenager after all , I felt humiliated .

I understood how hopelessly does the world live locked in some peoples heads .

The feeling of self-blame , shame unknown to better half of the proud 'human species' has been dominating my perspective for long enough now ,

months or years ?

No, it's not how anyone should feel , we just do , we take the feeling from each other . You do wrong , I'm ashamed . I do wrong you're ashamed . It's how connected , loving society used to be . It's hardly that way on the net but I was not brought up for this and can't really escape the feeling .

The horrors of daily news ..

Friends who had been for real and yet .. somehow , we never came to know each other close enough .

Barriers , because in real life silence also has a meaning and language , and here it's all about whether you've done 'your homework' , updated your blog, webpage, pushed another piece of intelligent activism forwards and so forth.


I don't want to be here and feel as if I have issues with credibility and what else because 'all the other people' who do have issues .
In real life , I've travelled far enough - against anyones convictions and advice - to find authentic spiritual teachings , and teachers , for example .
They're still there .. in mountains and jungles , and libraries , and all walks of life .. but it's your wanting the truth and how much that brings you together or not .

And then there are courses and seminars and couching for people who are curious about what the heck the truth could be . I think it's about millions of lies for an ounce of truth .


Lets not quite give up ... I suggest taking our brains for walk .. and maybe we all meet somewhere out there , in park .

Remember : Truth is Out There .


Happy tidings

:angel:

[Curt]

I'm convinced that self responsibility is the one thing that the forces you're talking about can't touch (ok, and conciousness itself), and I feel it's the one thing that humanity will have to learn if it's to move forward at all. Che Gevara: "No revolution of change will ever be successful, unless people themselves change". This has all been said before. It's worth repeating.

I agree. Self-responsibility is probably the silver bullet solution that would take down 'the beast' once and for all.

When I think about dystopian futures like those described in A Brave New World, or 1984, both systems rely on people being totally managed.

In Huxley's vision, people are well-treated and blissed out on Soma; they are entertained and heavily sexed and get to satisfy all their appetites, save one: freedom. His version of dystopian slavery is the carrot. Orwell's is the stick.

But neither would be possible in a world where people took responsibility for themselves. I think the utopian urge is essentially the death urge- a desire to be subsumed into the mass and escape personal responsibility through a version of non-existance where people still walk around, talk, floss and occasionally go to the movies.


This guy went for the spiders...


RFT6_KVd_ro

... got himself freshly assassinated (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?69621-Ukraine-Crimea-Syria-Israel-Iran-Putin-and-World-War-III&p=963795&viewfull=1#post963795) a few days ago...



Yep. A stark reminder.


Curt, I would change the thread title if I were you for: Reality hits in, intelligent regrouping and down to earth evolution sets in.

Guys, there is so few of yous up there, responsible of their own findings, emotionally understanding AND with critical analysis capabilities, can I marry you?:bigsmile::blushing:

.

:bigsmile:


....And the crossroads: after about 5 years trying to spur a citizen's movement to oust the minions of the Elite from power and prevent the Elite from controlling elections and governance - and getting nowhere - do I keep trying, or give up and focus on family and homesteading...maybe even expatriate.

Thanks much for your post. I'd love to meet you in person: you're interesting, have integrity, are honest, and are compassionate. Whichever fork in the road you take, keep in touch.

Thanks, my friend. I try. Mostly, I fail. But it's still the best game in town. And ditto.

It'd be great to meet someday. If I'm ever back in the States, we definitely can.

Keep fighting the good fight, brother.




I don’t put focus on escaping the web, rather I’m my own medicine woman. I’m my own personal trainer, researcher, artist, technician, teacher, bookkeeper, healer…

How that helps in the greater scheme is that critical point of by living in present awareness, our combined awareness mergers and the larger solutions will be plucked out of the ethers of that larger within that we're all created from.

<3

Wise as always, Pauler. Your approach reminds me of this scene from the film Labyrinth...emebPH6ysRU




http://static01.nyt.com/images/2013/12/22/arts/22SPIDERS1_SPAN/22SPIDERS1_SPAN-videoSixteenByNine1050.jpg

...the spider is a 'soul' trapper but it is worth noting that the spider is trapped in a web of it's own making as well.

I think you're right... So the spider is subject to rules... just like the monster in any horror movie- or the big boss in any video game.

I never did manage to knock out Mike Tyson in Nintendo's 'Punch Out'...

The zombie can be defeated with a blow to the brain, the vampire with a stake to the heart, or sunlight.

Guess it's a matter of trial and error, and sharing insights, which, I suppose, is what many of us are doing here.


Hello Curt,

My question to you is: Do you also see the great posts in the alt media and the great empathic writers and healers? I can honestly say, in my experience over the last fifteen years, that I have met some incredible healers whose intentions are pure and their modalities have helped hundreds of people. I will also say, without the help of some of these healers I would not be where I am today, and would not have been able to do the clearing in my energy field without them.

I do. And I'm very thankful for these people and their contributions to my life.

In my limited experience, though, it hasn't tended to be people who self-identify as healers who offer the best 'healing'.

For me, it's been writers and thinkers like Joseph Cambell, James Joyce, Tolkein or even Charles Bukowski- or strange, comic writers like Donald Barthelme.

I've gotten more insight on life, and more spiritual nourishment from Charlie Brown and Porky Pig cartoons than I have from any number of therapists, alt healers and shamans.

That sounds flip, I know, but I actually mean that sincerely. But I'm very thankful for anyone anywhere that offers something truly nourishing.

They're out there doing good work every day.




It's just a shame that disillusionment is often the lesson learned. I suppose that is the price for honest awareness in these times in which we live.

Most of that which i held in high esteem has been revealed to be just a facade and a pretense. This does call me to be reliant upon myself, sceptical and more discerning about everything else.

It is encouraging though to see more people especially new agers becoming aware of many of the spiritual and alternative fallacies that abound.

Its not so much about finding the truth, but more of uncovering it in a process of discovering what is not true. In much the same way as i find out more about who i am by finding out who i am not.

I think you're right. The process does seem to be one of winnowing down the information to find what's potentially useful.

And I guess there's no line-cutting and no cheat sheet to speed up that process. 'It takes the time it takes', to quote a certain Zebra....

But, there's no denying it probably goes faster with help from a community of people trying to do the same thing.


... all we can do sometimes is keep our heads above the water.
Sometimes what defines us the most is our extreme misery.

...However there is also a great value on the information you've gleaned from your time on the Internet. P

I agree on both counts.

[Roisin]

Curt, you said "I think the utopian urge is essentially the death urge a desire to be subsumed into the mass and escape personal responsibility..."

Hmmmm. So if someone packs up their bags to move to what they think is a better, safer and maybe even more beautiful country than the one they live in... in short, a place that matches up to their Utopian view of a better world, you think that's only a death urge?
I would rethink that Curt. lol

Though it's true that there will always be those who move away from "home" to escape it and their personal responsibilities too, the vast majority of people who DO move or for that matter attempt to build a better community in the place where they live that comes close to what they view as more "utopian"... to me, are people who are on the right track. There is nothing wrong with wanting to build a better world in which to live.

[Curt]

... I think it's about millions of lies for an ounce of truth...

Lets not quite give up ... I suggest taking our brains for walk .. and maybe we all meet somewhere out there, in park .

Remember : Truth is Out There .

Happy tidings

:angel:

I think you're probably right about the ratio...a million to one sounds about right. :)

But I also think you're right that it's not an excuse to give up.

The park sounds nice to me. My brain needs frequent walks, for sure.:)

[ulli]

http://m3resources.org/rickhiggins/wp-content/blogs.dir/5/files/2012/05/disillusion_1.jpg.scaled580-300x300.jpg

[Roisin]

On the other hand, Martin Luther King dreamed the impossible and like Ghandi, he changed the world for the better. Those who dare to dream the impossible sometimes come out on top. There are always exceptions. If people stopped dreaming for a better world, our world be a very sad and dull place indeed!

[Curt]

http://m3resources.org/rickhiggins/wp-content/blogs.dir/5/files/2012/05/disillusion_1.jpg.scaled580-300x300.jpg


Well said. :)

Trouble is, it's so hard to tell what are illusions until they've been shattered.

Their shattering is sort of the one thing that reliably confirms them as illusions.

Until they break apart, they can look so damned plausible.

[Jimswitz]

I think you make a very good point here,Roisin.
I don't have much experience with Shamans or gurus,but for a while now ,I've been a little suspicious of ,in particular,Raiki practitioners,who do a couple of weekend courses,call themselves 'Raiki Masters' and charge people large sums of money for 'treatments' and instruction.
I've been doing Chi-Gong and Tai-Chi for well over 10 years now,and have seen a number of these people go through our club,as the concept of Chi is relevant to all three disciplines.Some of them were obviously well -intentioned sensitive people,who genuinely wanted to help,but I couldn't see why they wanted to charge for their services.Others seemed to me to be only interested in the money.
We all have to 'make a living',but I think stuff like this should be given free of charge,as I believe that there are other kinds of reward than money.
I thought I was going to make an insightful observation when I started this post,but,on reading it back,I see that it's really just a 'rant'.
Never mind....I'll post it anyway.
Thanks for your contribution to an interesting thread.

[Roisin]

Thanks to the internet and all of the information that's on it.... there are a lot of people who are trying to pass themselves off as experts in any given area regardless that all they've done is read up on the topic. Those ones who are good writers or rather... the ones who are good at paraphrasing other people's writings are more able to pull something like that off when marketing their services online. They may fake it until they make it but the authentic practitioner can still spot such cons a mile away regardless how well someone is able to act the part.

[RunningDeer]

http://m3resources.org/rickhiggins/wp-content/blogs.dir/5/files/2012/05/disillusion_1.jpg.scaled580-300x300.jpg


Well said. :)

Trouble is, it's so hard to tell what are illusions until they've been shattered.

Their shattering is sort of the one thing that reliably cofirms them as illusions.

Until they break apart, they can look so damned plausible.
If life’s an illusion anyway, I may as well live in my own illusion.

Yes, it’s simplistic point of view. But and so...

I tossed out all I thought I knew about life. What happened was it got smaller on the outside with less stuff to dust off, and it grew bigger in my day to day.

<3

[ulli]

http://m3resources.org/rickhiggins/wp-content/blogs.dir/5/files/2012/05/disillusion_1.jpg.scaled580-300x300.jpg


Well said. :)

Trouble is, it's so hard to tell what are illusions until they've been shattered.

Their shattering is sort of the one thing that reliably cofirms them as illusions.

Until they break apart, they can look so damned plausible.

True.
Which is why I recommend that the best search starts and ends with self observation.
Never forgetting that one is a part of the observable greater whole.
That one ought to question even one's questioning processes.

The greatest problem with society is that such acts are then labeled as self-centeredness,
which in reality it is something different when done right.

What I am talking about is detached, non-judge mental self study, thoughts, emotions, deeds.
And the best tool for learning to do that is astrology, the legitimate, scientific kind.
Not the new-age, charlatan variety.
Thank God anyone can now learn to analyze their own chart.

[yuhui]

I have a story about a spider which I have never seen, but was told by a “psychic”, as she told my mum, that it is bothering me in some kind of multi-dimensional realm. And my mum paid her to get rid of it and then told me everything is going to be fine. Just to be clear I was not possessed or something, there was an exam coming and I was a bit nervous. Since then, I have been constantly thinking about that spider for years, where it has been or how it looks like, I imagine sometimes it lies on the corner of my room staring at me.

And I just realised that it might be the metaphor for one’s own awareness to construct one’s webs/illusion. I wonder how this relates to “The Lady of Shalott” with her “weaveth steadily”? Anyway, some buddhist school consider the disillusionment can be beneficial for the renunciation, which is to get out of samsara, but together with compassion of course. Like "Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."

Two archetypes similar to Labyrinth

Wa1jSU7PEBA

QaMXv02CC-c

[Roisin]

http://m3resources.org/rickhiggins/wp-content/blogs.dir/5/files/2012/05/disillusion_1.jpg.scaled580-300x300.jpg


Well said. :)

Trouble is, it's so hard to tell what are illusions until they've been shattered.

Their shattering is sort of the one thing that reliably cofirms them as illusions.

Until they break apart, they can look so damned plausible.

True.
Which is why I recommend that the best search starts and ends with self observation.
Never forgetting that one is a part of the observable greater whole.
That one ought to question even one's questioning processes.

The greatest problem with society is that such acts are then labeled as self-centeredness,
which in reality it is something different when done right.

What I am talking about is detached, non-judge mental self study, thoughts, emotions, deeds.
And the best tool for learning to do that is astrology, the legitimate, scientific kind.
Not the new-age, charlatan variety.
Thank God anyone can now learn to analyze their own chart.

I agree! Astrology is very helpful in terms of self-examination and for this reason, I've been studying it for many years now. I do not call myself an Astrologist though as I do not have any certification in that area but at least I know enough to understand it .... and its truth.

[Curt]

If life’s an illusion anyway, I may as well live in my own illusion.

Yes, it’s simplistic point of view. But and so...

I tossed out all I thought I knew about life. What happened was it got smaller on the outside with less stuff to dust off, and it grew bigger in my day to day.

<3

I like the idea- and the image you've drawn here- of outside things falling away in favour of an expanding and more meaningful interior life. That's how I experience you, whenever we interact on PA.




True.
Which is why I recommend that the best search starts and ends with self observation.
Never forgetting that one is a part of the observable greater whole.
That one ought to question even one's questioning processes.



100% agreed on all counts.


I have a story about a spider which I have never seen, but was told by a “psychic”, as she told my mum, that it is bothering me in some kind of multi-dimensional realm. And my mum paid her to get rid of it and then told me everything is going to be fine. Just to be clear I was not possessed or something, there was an exam coming and I was a bit nervous. Since then, I have been constantly thinking about that spider for years, where it has been or how it looks like, I imagine sometimes it lies on the corner of my room staring at me.

And I just realised that it might be the metaphor for one’s own awareness to construct one’s webs/illusion. I wonder how this relates to “The Lady of Shalott” with her “weaveth steadily”? Anyway, some buddhist school consider the disillusionment can be beneficial for the renunciation, which is to get out of samsara, but together with compassion of course. Like "Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."

Two archetypes similar to Labyrinth

Wa1jSU7PEBA

QaMXv02CC-c

Thank you for sharing your story- and for the reference to The Lady of Shalott. I'll take a look at that poem soon.

Likewise, thanks for the clips you've shared- both great iterations of the metaphor shown in the labyrinth clip.

[transiten]

I've hit a wall, I guess you could say. It was a long time coming.

Before I belonged to Avalon I worked for a holistic health expo company. I met psychics and healers and shamans- lots of interesting people.
...
...
But I feel like I’m at a choice point. Are efforts best spent on escaping the web?

Or is there spider hunting to be done?



Could you please back up your claims about those healers wrt them being arrested and so on with legit documentation/links to help us verify the information you are sharing here? thanks

I have experienced this 1:st hand with extremely traumatic consequences. Read "Spiritual Vampires" The use and misuse of spiritual power by Marty Raphael.

What others are saying about the book:

In this day and age of spiritual teachers that come in every conceivable guise, Spiritual Vampires is an important manual on the appropriate use of power-a strategy for healthy spiritual recovery for those who have been subject to religious abuse.

Marthy bravely names a form of abuse we'd rather believe does not exist.

Spiritual vampirism is an insidious process. I read your book with great interest having once been a "victim" of a so-called guru. Specifically the chapter on power led me to understand more clearly how my hunger for spiritual answers led me astray.

[loveoflife]

I've hit a wall, I guess you could say. It was a long time coming.

Before I belonged to Avalon I worked for a holistic health expo company. I met psychics and healers and shamans- lots of interesting people.
...
...
But I feel like I’m at a choice point. Are efforts best spent on escaping the web?

Or is there spider hunting to be done?



Could you please back up your claims about those healers wrt them being arrested and so on with legit documentation/links to help us verify the information you are sharing here? thanks

I have experienced this 1:st hand with extremely traumatic consequences. Read "Spiritual Vampires" The use and misuse of spiritual power by Marty Raphael.

What others are saying about the book:

In this day and age of spiritual teachers that come in every conceivable guise, Spiritual Vampires is an important manual on the appropriate use of power-a strategy for healthy spiritual recovery for those who have been subject to religious abuse.

Marthy bravely names a form of abuse we'd rather believe does not exist.

Spiritual vampirism is an insidious process. I read your book with great interest having once been a "victim" of a so-called guru. Specifically the chapter on power led me to understand more clearly how my hunger for spiritual answers led me astray.

Even the bad teachers/gurus are good once exposed they teach us much about ourselves. There are some good spiritual teachers who teach, individuality, self responsibility and the need to move beyond their teachings and influence. I speak from experience.

Then there are those who want to follow, to be led and want a saviour, they will attract what they want.

The sincere with attract a sincere teacher, and the insincere............................

Teachers are a fact of life, we need to learn from masters/teachers who have walked the path ahead of us, in whatever subject we need to learn, from cookery to spirituality. Especially spirituality, in a world where religion is the acceptable norm, its not easy to find.

Individual sovereignty is a something that is not mentioned often. The most disempowering thing that i was told was, "i made you".

I think that there are spiritual vampires who believe themselves to be sincere and are unaware of what they do. Its the first rule of sales you have to believe in your product or the customer will see through you, then both parties need to feel satisfied with the transaction. Though sales is more often than not based on selling something that is not essential, or even really needed, then believing a lie is necessary, or even better a partial truth that has the ring of sincerity.

It all comes down to belief, belief is belief, be it in something genuine or bogus, a believer has been convinced and has convinced themself.

[loveoflife]

http://m3resources.org/rickhiggins/wp-content/blogs.dir/5/files/2012/05/disillusion_1.jpg.scaled580-300x300.jpg

Easier said than done.

My illusions have been my best teachers, along with my many wrong turns and mistakes. I reserve the right to be wrong. My best teachers are my critics, who have taken the time to point my faults and illusions out for me.

[loveoflife]

I think you make a very good point here,Roisin.
I don't have much experience with Shamans or gurus,but for a while now ,I've been a little suspicious of ,in particular,Raiki practitioners,who do a couple of weekend courses,call themselves 'Raiki Masters' and charge people large sums of money for 'treatments' and instruction.
I've been doing Chi-Gong and Tai-Chi for well over 10 years now,and have seen a number of these people go through our club,as the concept of Chi is relevant to all three disciplines.Some of them were obviously well -intentioned sensitive people,who genuinely wanted to help,but I couldn't see why they wanted to charge for their services.Others seemed to me to be only interested in the money.
We all have to 'make a living',but I think stuff like this should be given free of charge,as I believe that there are other kinds of reward than money.
I thought I was going to make an insightful observation when I started this post,but,on reading it back,I see that it's really just a 'rant'.
Never mind....I'll post it anyway.
Thanks for your contribution to an interesting thread.

Tai Chi and Chi-Gong can help a reiki practitioner become better. Rei (universal) ki (life force energy) chi or prana.

There is a tradition in Japan where reiki originated, that of energy exchange, giving back in equal measure that which has been received or taken. Westerners do not understand this as evidenced by the attitude towards the planet as a resource to be exploited. When Reiki came to the west it was decided that money was to be the medium of exchange because it is one thing in the west that is valued above all else, and because the principles of energy exchange was not understood.

[Mike]

I started losing my hair when I was 19. It freaked me out. I had $ at the time and decided I'd try just about anything that sounded plausible. I was told at the time that it was all an illusion, that none of the stuff would work. To me, it was only an illusion if it didn't work...and the only way to find out was to try everything. What did I have to lose?

Life is like that. Its not so much about discovering oneself, its about creating oneself, and trying out different guises, personalities; adopting different theories and modes of thought and disregarding what doesnt work or what is plainly nonsense. Evolution is not always a linear line, however, and occasionally you'll find yourself in an existential rut.

Curt, I came to this stuff with high hopes. Its truly uncanny how similar alt (fill in the blank) is to the hair loss industry. It sells itself well, preys on the vulnerable, but there's very rarely any kind of payoff or follow thru.

To your original post:
-i've never met or spoke to a psychic who was even remotely accurate. And I've spoken to *many* . (A phase. I *had* to know if there was something there)

-ive never been helped in the slightest by any sort of psychic healer, or by "healing energy". And I've dealt with many "healers".

-ivs never seen any of our whistleblowers predict stuff with anything resembling accuracy.

I could go on and on...

To determine who one is is more of an exercise in shaving off the extra fat than it is creating more meat. Its easier to "discover oneself" by finding out more what doesn't work than what does. Meanwhile you experiment and try out new ways of thinking, new this and new that. For me, this whole field of alt media is another attempt at that. I've shaved off a whole bunch of sh!t from this sculpture of mine, and I've kind of wound up here. And while here, I've shaved off a whole bunch of additional sh!t that I simply can no longer believe in if I'm to consciously consider myself an intelligent person.

So that's where I'm at. I understand what you're saying - but for me life is always a crossroad. Try to embrace it, would be my advice. Add to your repertoire or release what no longer serves you. My 2 cents

[Mike]

additionally,

i meant to say...to your point..

i dont know anything about any controlled demolition orchestrated by "them"...ive always felt that the alt media was by its very nature self destructive and not needing of any outside influence to distort it. not to marginalize your opinion - which may be valid - but i think its notions such as these that perpetuate the disorder in alt media...notions that "they" are doing it to "us".

i think we're doing it to us.

and my grand theory on why this is, is because...drumroll please...: we're bored.

yup, boredom. and not too much more. because think about it: alt anything (theory, prognostication, paranormal ability, so forth) is generally all *conceptual*. it has very little real world relevance. predictions never come true; paranormal abilities are spoken of ad nauseum but never demonstrated; people we might have faith in (re Curt's examples in OP) turn out to be fraudulent and so on and so forth. its very frustrating. folks here get so disillusioned by this that they either a) start a constructive thread like this one, or B) just start making sh!t up to create the illusion of action. its happening now actually; the forum rhythms are so predictable - we have a thread about Fulford saying "something might be happening really soon!" this happens every month or so and we all fall for it. no disrespect to anyone in that thread - truly - but nothing is gonna happen. you know it, i know it...so please, just stop.

but we have to talk about something right? and talk we do ( see: Grip's thread on the merits/demerits of repetition). but as i said earlier, its (alt media, alt anything really) all conceptual. no direct experience for the most part. its like having a beautiful woman wagging her ass in your face all night long but not being allowed to touch it. with this stuff, there's no crossover into reality. it can be a form of intellectual torture. it requires a certain faith, like religion almost.

and no matter what alt theme youre exploring, you will always run into a road block. there will no longer be anything left to discuss. it simply becomes repetitive. i recall being thrilled and excited exploring these themes early on in my "awakening". it can be accurately said that i was developing a love affair with all things "alt". but once the gloss wore off, it became clear that things would become very stale very quick...like a marriage that no longer works anymore but you still hang around because its comfortable.

thats why drama threads thrive so well. we all pretend we hate them; someone will inevitably say "come on guys! lets get back to the important stuff!" ...and everyone from here to Timbuktu will line up to "thank" it, but the truth of the matter is, the "important stuff" has grown so f#cking stale and boring that just about anything else will seem entertaining by comparison...so we pretend to take the high road while we secretly enjoy it.

this, to me, is why the alt media will crumble..or at the very least remain status quo. it will crumble from the inside...simply from boredom and having no other place to go...no other place to explore. its very much at a stand still. disillusionment unchecked (and boredom) cannot, by its very nature, do anything else.

great post Curt, as usual. i disagree a little but that makes things a little interesting around here, i hope.

[T Smith]

John Lennon once said, “I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now?”

For me, a more accurate sentiment might be, "I entertain everything until it's disproved...." And then personal responsibility and critical discernment take the reins as tireless foot soldiers for the mind to prove or disprove my indulgences. It's an ongoing process and certain judgment is never complete. Some illusions are easy to vet, while other truths (seemingly) require little to no examination. I guess I would tell you with a very high degree of confidence that the earth is round and revolves around the sun every 365.25 days, and that snake oil does not grow hair. But I keep the process of possibility open and churning, no matter on what end of the continuum my discernment ultimately falls. There are many tools available to critical thought, including an understanding of cui bono, but regardless, disillusionment is not an option while the book remains open… there is simply a new page to turn in a developing story. I prefer never to close any book entirely, but rather strive to obtain greater and fuller degrees of resolution to that of which I’m already fully aware, or to that of which I believe I’m fully aware.

Is the alt media a tool of psyops to advance a controlling agenda? Absolutely. There is a lot going on in the dimensions of reality in which all are all navigating, including an exponential rise of readily assessable information that often resembles white noise. If not waded through and perceived with caution, the noise can easily blind one to any degree of resolution let alone a ballpark resolution of reality. There are also countless agendas that harness the noise to beguile the undiscerning. This is simply a dynamic inherent to the stage of consciousness we are all experiencing. In this vein there are countless agendas, the likes of which we cannot even begin to possibly fathom. Sometimes it's not even about the money.

But I digress. To answer your question, I say go for slaying the spider! It’s a much greater adventure than fleeing the web….

[Flash]

I love your two last posts - period.

Some points from my experience (and I will mix your two posts Mike for this):


I started losing my hair when I was 19. Sorry for this. It freaked me out. Sorry for this. ....... What did I have to lose? More hair. lolllll


I will stop teasing you. Hum hum... bits of seriousness (i am in the kidding mood tonight).


To Curt's original post:
-i've never met or spoke to a psychic who was even remotely accurate. And I've spoken to *many* . (A phase. I *had* to know if there was something there)

-ive never been helped in the slightest by any sort of psychic healer, or by "healing energy". And I've dealt with many "healers".

-ivs never seen any of our whistleblowers predict stuff with anything resembling accuracy.

Well, in my own Flash experience, I have met clairvoyant who had true clairvoyancy, I have met psychics who were on target, and I have met healers who help the healing processes.

However, what these all had in common were the following:

They were clear viewing, or Healing, while doing something else.

They were not paid for their claivoyancy or their healing abilities as such, they were either naturopahts, acupunctors, homeopaths, medical doctors, physiotherapists, massage therapists, teachers/trainers, even computer geeks, all paid for doing something else that was not officially psychic or officially "healer" like, although they truly were in their actions and results.

They were not even telling they had such abilities. I would discover they had these over time, them slipping some comments that would make me wonder about it. Some of them may not even have been sure they had these abilities.

The real ones rarely advertise their abilities and rarely receive money for it. But yes, they use them in their more "regular" work, in which they often have a very good reputation and / or a large clientele.

And for psychic abilities or healers abilities, we all develop them as we develop ourselves, as we evolve into more actualised beings and more integrated beings.

So each one fmust ollow its own tracks, because in fact each one of us is the psychic and the healer, albeit sometimes in early developmental stage.


Mike: but i think its notions such as these that perpetuate the disorder in alt media...notions that "they" are doing it to "us".

i think we're doing it to us.

and my grand theory on why this is, is because...drumroll please...: we're bored.............and no matter what alt theme youre exploring, you will always run into a road block. there will no longer be anything left to discuss. it simply becomes repetitive........thats why drama threads thrive so well. we all pretend we hate them; someone will inevitably say "come on guys! lets get back to the important stuff!"


Yes, our ego needs the thrill, the unfulfilling thrill, because we are either bored, or, stupid, or both. Or yet, stucked in stucked emotions that hampers the brain and heart functionings. Very primitive....

Ok, now I am escaping to bed!:cry:

[gripreaper]

There are levels of consciousness. You're not going to see the ones above you, so go read about them and see where you fit into the spectrum. The consummate book on the subject, which I have mentioned before with little fanfare, is Jenny Wade's "Changes of Mind"

http://www.amazon.com/Changes-Mind-Consciousness-Philosophy-Psychology/dp/0791428508/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1432704502&sr=1-1&keywords=jenny+wade+changes+of+mind

The only other book which comes close is the late David Hawkin's book, Power v Force.

[transiten]

Even the bad teachers/gurus are good once exposed they teach us much about ourselves. There are some good spiritual teachers who teach, individuality, self responsibility and the need to move beyond their teachings and influence. I speak from experience.

Then there are those who want to follow, to be led and want a saviour, they will attract what they want.

The sincere with attract a sincere teacher, and the insincere............................

Noone said there is no good spiritual teachers but naming someone who purpously brainwashes pple as "good" that's a bit too thick I think.

I think this way of reasoning is "oversimplifying" the issue. In a way I agree since I believe we choose ourselves what lessons to learn before reincarnating but saying that someone who ends up in a sect while seeking help is necessarily "not sincere" is heartless.

There's this risk of distorting the belief in reincarnation so as to say "Well you choose to be poor in this life so I'm not going to help you".

[Agape]

From what I've seen evolving through and in the 'western society' regarding spiritual and most other 'exotic arts' blend for decades now ,

people ( are people ) want a 'smoothie' , trick, mix , fix their immediate problems and stay who they are , this 'western society' had been overpowered by material - materialistic values to such a deal many people don't even dare to look out of the loop without fear that 'knowledge and civilisation' rise and fall with them .

Ask many of those drunk , unwashed , homeless beggars lingering around with card boxes of cheap wine or whatever and you'd find some of them have pretty straight philosophical and political views and more over ,
they know with disarming accuracy where does the matrix begin and where does it end .

Civilisation matrix is largely a problem of rich man ;) Even if you're not exactly 'rich' most probably you still have things you rely on, dwell on, material things ,
and it's not any more simple nowadays than it was thousands years ago ,

we all pay taxes for those things, for living in civilisations 'safe zone' . We pay for water to drink, nearly for air the breathe , especially the air soaked with car fuels but forget it ... it makes you feel better, you say . They say ..

And then , you want to do some 'yoga' or search for truth , or learn meditation.


You know, in the land ( should say part of the world ) where these arts and disciplines and knowledge were preserved for thousands of years intact ,
through narrow lineages of teachers and students passing their knowledge from mouth to ear and actually using their memory ( the condemned and ''unreliable'' personality item to todays 'material scientists' ) to preserve thousands of pages of verses before they were ever written down ,
keeping sacred vows of ethical and other disciplines , vows of practise and loyalty to the one teacher who chose you as his worthy student .

The knowledge that is now being sold, advertised through various media, misused for any low aim or claim of lofty one was and is authentic in its origin,

I did go after it too ... as a youngster , with pure heart ... and found there're authentic sources , scriptures, history , teachers too . They're not 'readily available' though ,
and well, the internet was probably still in diapers when I set my foot on the path ..

When I came back to Europe , and each time I came back, I was teaching ..

this is where I gained some of the most precious to me experiences , through contact and communication with people ..

I'm not the only one who did this, to boost the spiritual and empowered side of the civilisation , bring out the heart and truth from the heart to surface ,
offer the best quality for free . I never taught for money, nor I agreed to collecting fees at the door ,
though through the years people tried to take me to the 'money making business' ,
I resisted because it does not match my principles .

But from what I've seen happened later ... after the first, enthusiastic spiritual blast of pure hearts and great ideals was the 'new economy' coming to place and becoming the most important, fashionable facet of society ,
the great 'Big Brother' who is always right , the materialism who failed from the East returned from the West ,
and he's at all sides now, all corners of the world .

Everything that could be merchandised and profited on had been used thus already,

and the results are poorly for the truth .

Most people won't ever understand WHY things do not work as they were sold to them or why they never can work as advertised ,
if even for the fact of being advertised . It's a whole chain of things you won't understand unless .. you're willing to change .

And no teacher , no friend , no one outside is entitled or permitted to tell you 'come change your lifestyle' because 'Truth' is not lifestyle after all .

There's great deal of knowledge ( aka ''secret knowledge'' ) and disciplines ( ''arts'' , ''abilities'' ) locked within people that won't work unless the time is right ,
and unless certain criteria are met through wider society , including ethical criteria .

These are not taken lightly .. among the old initiated societies and circles, be it in India , Tibet or anywhere else such traditions would be kept alive .

People with low intents simply do not get in . That's how they struggled to avoid influx of curious 'outsiders' for centuries and when they could not do better and their respective cultures were virtually raped and exploited for that knowledge
they gave up and out what could be given ,

but truth can't be given , it has to come from within you .

The 'seal' on the 'true facts' and disciplines is very heavy .

I come from very skeptical and rational backgrounds as well though , I want to believe .. but I also want to see , and try . So I've travelled far enough to see and try, and touch .. what is real ..
and there's much I've not seen yet . But I've seen a lot . It would be for long long chat really and the strange facet of my path and all I've been through ,
is again , I'm kept down .. to what you call 'low profile' in last many years and it's probably the best for me though , I'm not sure if I'll be ever able to forward what I know for human posterity .

In India they say that meeting 'Siddha' , accomplished being who have some special 'above average' ability and knowledge requires lots of good 'karma' .
It means if you really desire the truth and need to know above all other things in the world ,
and have a good heart , there's a chance to meet your aims .


The authenticity .. and truthfulness , and perseverance needed .. reminds me of seeking 'true love' , in this civilisation.

The idea itself was so dumped on till now that it does not exist for most people , similar to great spiritual truth ,
the Brave New World lives .. with its conventions and convictions of us doing it the right way because there's no other way .


My heart cries ..too often .. for many years I thought there's a hope . I had a 'faith' . The people and their system deceived me ,
because they could and because it seemed 'more right' to them .

I always tried to bring them back the best I found, so I did this time ... and they ran away, mostly, not knowing what to do .

Yes I've seen hundreds of successful charlatans and whistleblowers on stage , lunatics and fanatics being smart a$$es is all that matters .

I've seen where the yellow and black ribbon runs .

It's not a secret , it's just that it can't be changed easily unless and until the majority of human society are evolved enough to want to change it, all together , without fight .



:flower:

[Curt]

Wow, Agape, thanks so much for your last post.

That was incredibly heartfelt and timely- a distillation of your experience into language that I can really feel and understand.

I appreciate your willingness to look past the cynicism in my initial post and bring your considerable wisdom to the party...

[transiten]

http://m3resources.org/rickhiggins/wp-content/blogs.dir/5/files/2012/05/disillusion_1.jpg.scaled580-300x300.jpg

Easier said than done.

My illusions have been my best teachers, along with my many wrong turns and mistakes. I reserve the right to be wrong. My best teachers are my critics, who have taken the time to point my faults and illusions out for me.

Agree with you there, funny thing in my 20:ies I recorded an album called "Illusions" an I've had a few: Neptune conj South Node in Libra Tsquare Venus and Libra Moon conj Neptune....

[Roisin]

Even the bad teachers/gurus are good once exposed they teach us much about ourselves. There are some good spiritual teachers who teach, individuality, self responsibility and the need to move beyond their teachings and influence. I speak from experience.

Then there are those who want to follow, to be led and want a saviour, they will attract what they want.

The sincere with attract a sincere teacher, and the insincere............................

Noone said there is no good spiritual teachers but naming someone who purpously brainwashes pple as "good" that's a bit too thick I think.

I think this way of reasoning is "oversimplifying" the issue. In a way I agree since I believe we choose ourselves what lessons to learn before reincarnating but saying that someone who ends up in a sect while seeking help is necessarily "not sincere" is heartless.

There's this risk of distorting the belief in reincarnation so as to say "Well you choose to be poor in this life so I'm not going to help you".

Unfortunately, those who are the most successful healers, for example, are also the targets of those colleagues of theirs who dwell within the ranks of mediocrity who are not as talented and gifted in the art of healing as the one they are criticizing and debunking. It's called professional jealousy and it's rampant not only in the area of healers but in other area's too... like psychics and so on. Those who are only nominally talented flock together in a united front against anyone who's better than they are at "it" and because there are more of them than the truly talented, where they strive to establish mediocrity as the "standard" for any given "talent" .... if you are better than they are at "it"... they don't like you and you will suffer the consequences of their wrath by being accused of fraud by them by showing how good you are at "it" in any demonstrable way.

In the area of healing... John of God has been a favorite target of those ones I speak about above. They will rant on and on about him to persuade you to think he's a fraud.... or worse, evil. They don't like him because he's better than they are at healing people... hence why they target him all the time. But this is just one example of what I'm talking about here.

[Curt]

additionally,

i meant to say...to your point..

i dont know anything about any controlled demolition orchestrated by "them"...ive always felt that the alt media was by its very nature self destructive and not needing of any outside influence to distort it. not to marginalize your opinion - which may be valid - but i think its notions such as these that perpetuate the disorder in alt media...notions that "they" are doing it to "us".

i think we're doing it to us.

and my grand theory on why this is, is because...drumroll please...: we're bored.


Mike, two great posts, thanks very much.

....And to be fair, I don't 'know' anything about it either. I suspect. Very strongly. But that's all. I do think there is a 'they' in this screwed up equation.

'Their' existence is suggested by loads of evidence and testimony that's hard to ignore at this point- whoever 'they' are.

But I agree we're greatly assisting 'them' in 'their' work of ****ing 'us' over.

Maybe alt culture is ineffectual because it's 'bored'...wandering around the same territory over and over and getting nowhere.

But maybe that boredom is just a symptom of never going far enough- of stopping at familiar boundaries every goddam time.

Of responding with a shrug to the invisible fence.

Because Jesus Christ, Mike, as a community we're like the 'dad' on America's Funniest Home Video getting whacked in the balls by a whiffle ball bat every week.

It's a different 'dad' every episode. Sometimes he wears a sweater. Sometimes he’s got a set of barbeque tongs in his hands. But it's the same clip.

And every week the same dull roar of laughter from the audience, the same blind acceptance that this man's bruised ball sack represents the absolute pinnacle of hilarity in the ****ing universe.

That kind of banality, in all its varieties, makes my stomach churn and me feel a little less alive every time I encounter it.

What it doesn't do, is bore me.

So, what's our role as internet forum posters- as keyboard warriors- supposed to be? No idea. Certainly not militant revolutionaries.

But **** me. What if we were just a touch more engaged and refused to accept pure bull**** when it’s right under our noses.

From where I'm sitting that would be revolutionary enough.

....Anyway...you know what I mean.

[Mike]

Well said Curt. And thanks for the laughs! ("Dad" metaphor)

Occasionally there will be a rallying cry on the forum, something along the lines of "we can do better"....and it excites members and stimulates good conversation. And then...it sort of fizzles out and we just go back to what we did before....

How can we maintain that enthusiasm and not revert back to the dull applause from the studio audience and the acceptance of banality as our status quo? Man I don't know. I did attempt an answer to this recently in a bit about "style" but I think it was a clumsy and poorly written post honestly...

As to our role here as keyboard warriors...sheesh, I wish i could answer that too. But I feel your frustration. I really do. And I think its from a lack of action. For me it is anyway. The error occurs I think when we want the forum to be more than it really is...when our expectations are too high. Some regard the forum as *the* vehicle for change and revolution, when really its just a small part. An important part, but a small part. The action we're all looking for is right outside our windows, in the real world. We all have to act as emissaries out there in a sense...to carry the msg along and act as a bunch of mini Neos.

I joked recently on your wall that you'll likely split before I get a chance to say "bye" to you, but trust me..I get it brother! I kind of do the same thing. DonJuan has a great quote in the Casteneda books, about touching things in your world and then keeping it moving. Its the whole art of knowing when to arrive, when to split, and most importantly, knowing how much time to spend on any one thing so as to not exhaust its relevance. Know what I mean? The forum is like that - when used properly, and when its not overused, it stays relevant and exciting and fun. I wish we had 10,000 active members. I really do! (Something tells me you disagree! Haha)

Anyway, my head is throbbing and sore and as a result I'm not communicating well, so I'll stop here. Hope I've made a little sense, anyway...

[Hervé]

Hunting the spiders… well, that can be done.

Trouble is, once in sight: what to do with them?

Then, on the other side of the coin, what to do with the web-entangled suckers?

Both are suffering of the same affliction: “Their Mind.”

That’s from the writing of a sucker turned spider (according to some): Carlos Castaneda when he wrote:


Posted by Amzer Zo (here) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?p=536515#post536515)
[…]

Castaneda's "Predator":
"We have a predator that came from the depths of the cosmos and took over the rule of our lives. Human beings are its prisoners. [...] You have arrived, by your effort alone, to what the shamans of ancient Mexico called the topic of topics. I have been beating around the bush all this time, insinuating to you that something is holding us prisoner. Indeed we are held prisoner! This was an energetic fact for the sorcerers of ancient Mexico. [...] They took over because we are food for them, and they squeeze us mercilessly because we are their sustenance. Just as we rear chickens in chicken coops, the predators rear us in human coops. Therefore, their food is always available to them.' [...]

"'I want to appeal to your analytical mind, ' don Juan said. 'Think for a moment, and tell me how you would explain the contradiction between the intelligence of man the engineer and the stupidity of his systems of beliefs, or the stupidity of his contradictory behavior. Sorcerers believe that the predators have given us our systems of beliefs, our ideas of good and evil, our social mores. They are the ones who set up our hopes and expectations and dreams of success or failure. They have given us covetousness, greed and cowardice. It is the predators who make us complacent, routinary, and egomaniacal.' [...]

"In order to keep us obedient and meek and weak, the predators engaged themselves in a stupendous maneuver - stupendous, of course, from the point of view of a fighting strategist. A horrendous maneuver from the point of view of those who suffer it. They gave us their mind! Do you hear me? The predators give us their mind, which becomes our mind. The predators' mind is baroque, contradictory, morose, filled with the fear of being discovered any minute now. [...]

"Through the mind, which, after all, is their mind, the predators inject into the lives of human beings whatever is convenient for them." [Castaneda, The Active Side of Infinity, 1998, pp. 213-220] So, having “Their Mind” in our minds, we got WWI, WW II, the 60’s, the New Age as well as TV programming courtesy of Tavistock Institute, etc…

How’s that possible?

Simple, here is how, from the example of a hypnotic trance command implantation:



[Y]ears ago […] a friend of mine was hypnotized by her brother in front of me and her boyfriend. Her brother asked me what I would like him to have her do after he woke her up. I wanted to see if she would repeat something that she would considered silly under normal circumstances. I said, have her get up and flush the toilet every time you tug at your collar.

So he gave her the command, then woke her up. He tugged his collar, she got up, went into the bathroom and flushed the toilet, came back and sat down. He tugged his collar again, and she did it again. And again. After three or four times, I finally asked her why she kept getting up to flush the toilet.

First, she just said it needed flushing. She did it again. And again, I asked her why she kept flushing the toilet. Each time I asked her, she would make up some lame reason as to why she had to flush the toilet.

She got more and more annoyed at me for asking, but she did it again and again upon command and could never see that there was anything strange about it.

Her brother hypnotized her once more to release her of the command, but what an amazing thing to have witnessed.

This is what I saw in my son. He could not answer a simple question but only parrot the party line.
[...] The trick is that, in giving us “Their Mind,” they gave the whole of the duality package in pairs of opposites like: guru-suckers, black-white, master-slave, king-subject, good-bad, etc… so that the pattern repeats itself at any level -- as Mandelbrot fractals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal) do, from family to galaxies. Ever seen neighborhood kinglets and their subjects?

The thing is that either one of a pair can be switched on -- on cue -- in any one individual... sometimes in one's lifetime, sometimes in different ones but only very few remember anything and that's a damn, darn, dang clue right there that something is interfering with the memories of a vast majority of people... like being told while watching a timepiece dangling in front of their face: "Remember to forget everything when you get back there..." As for the ones who do remember something, they are ridiculed, laughed at, burnt at stakes, locked up in psychiatric wards, stuffed with antidepressants, etc...

Simon Parkes quoted one of his Mantid mentor imparting to him: “They are not supposed to remember!” in regards to abductees. Whole batches of abductees are implanted or “programmed,” every night, “To remember to forget” along with other "programs."


When no one takes up the king-guru-master polarity on cue, the suckers-subjects-slaves can’t help but elect someone as king-boss-owner or as a reluctant messiah… and the “elected” one switches on the corresponding implant.

When one gets an inkling that this kind of hypnotic-trance implantation of behaviours and marching orders have been going on for eons on this planet (see this thread: MATRIX REVEALED -- Analysis & Solutions (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52786-MATRIX-REVEALED-Analysis-Solutions)) one can get an idea of the size of the task in “waking up” people.

[Roisin]

Just a thought on Mandelbrot fractals. One of the reasons why there are so many different views amongst channelers and people who claim to be in the know about such matters on an esoteric level from their own other dimensional sources on topics like the origins of earth, man and the universe… and how things operate is because they each belong to a separate Mandelbrot set. That there are soooooo many different views and origin stories floating around out there, we can tentatively surmise that these sets are not in contact with each other. In fact, they don’t even know that other sets exist out there and if they do, they ignore them saying their view is the only true one.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Curt, if I may, about 5 years ago picked up a copy of this book:


http://www.amazon.com/Psychic-Mafia-LaMar-Keene/dp/1573921610

Psychic Mafia Paperback – September 1, 1997
by LaMar Keene (Author), M. LaMar Keene (Author)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Lamar_Keene

Morris Lamar Keene (10 August 1936 - 11 June 1996),[1] was a spirit medium in Tampa, Florida and at Camp Chesterfield Indiana, where he was known as the "Prince of the Spiritualists". He is best known for his 1976 book The Psychic Mafia, in which he coined the term "true believer syndrome."

In 1976, Keene co-authored The Psychic Mafia, "as told to" Allen Spraggett, a well-known Canadian writer on paranormal topics. The writer William V. Rauscher, himself a believer in psychic powers,[2] contributed a foreword and a bibliography and wrote that he conducted 75 hours of interviews with Keene, during which Keene admitted that all of his psychic activities were done by fraudulent means. Keene revealed how he got rich by tricking thousands of people in séances (Randi 1995:135). James Randi, a professional magician, interviewed Keene in 1977, and discovered that Keene was quite unsophisticated in fooling people with magic, but Keene explained that his spiritualist clients were easy to fool.(Randi 1982:246) Keene described how the victims fell for the most transparent ruses. Keene coined the term true-believer syndrome in the book (Keene 1997:151).

I'm not sure that folks were real happy w/ me last time I recommended this book;
however, it can be a challenge to discern between a gifted psychic and a gifted con artist.

I "felt the urge" so many times to start seeing a for-profit psychic in Seattle.
There was one at the public market who seemed very successful and low key.
I think the place was called Jacob's Lamp, and I wondered if there was any legitimacy.

However the other places were the typical "low rent" "neon sign in the window" sort of deal,
not calm/pretty/feng shui but more like fast food or "cash for your gold now!" lol.


I never did visit them :P

However that does not mean I didn't run into a few people who practiced.
One of the people I met in Seattle who practiced the arts was a tarot reader.
She was a homeless Scottish girl who had a real gift for reading the tarot for people.
Her reading was free, although she did not do them for just anyone.

The things she said came true down to very specific details.
And all she was doing was interpreting the random spread of the cards.

______________

I think what some people say about magic and the associated arts is,
you have to have such a powerful mind and even then, there is risk involved.

Most people probably can't keep up w/ that much information, emotional baggage, hope/letdown.

Also among some occultists there is a tendency to use drugs in order to contact the spirit realm.
I.e. some of the ones who are not scammy get into drugs for easier access to the spirit realm,
then for whatever reason end up in thrall to an unfriendly entity or worse, a life of crime.

______


according to the Keene book, even some of the people in the Network are out to get each other.
Much like aspects of the "alt community" they tend to "keep it going" even if it's a dancing skeleton.



Personally I believe for most people, psychic ability is not something demonstrable on demand,
it is more like a reflex, a reaction, or a forewarning of an event.

You can't just pull it out like a white rabbit out of a hat and make it dance for money. :P

[Agape]

Wow, Agape, thanks so much for your last post.

That was incredibly heartfelt and timely- a distillation of your experience into language that I can really feel and understand.

I appreciate your willingness to look past the cynicism in my initial post and bring your considerable wisdom to the party...

Your post resonates with me only too well ... I would not say it better , the tune of this particular 'string' , the note or subnote we're all experiencing , being inevitable part of ..
goes deep , and there are even deeper notes , even more difficult to explain .


So thank you very much for sharing your thoughts in open ..


my mind at times seems to be starring blank at the paradox of its own experience ,

so many years passed .. so many words that could never be spoken .


:angel:

[Agape]

Few important observations I'd like to add ... well , that too has to be an euphemism as 'liking' is not the correct term befitting my observations ..

few thoughts to add on where the 'thin line' starts for me .

The paragraph could be titled 'Facing the Truth' but see if you as a reader can grasp my perspective .
I'm mulling over this for years now, true, because furthest we've got with the truth is something akin to balancing on a thin rope
but well , everyone has something .. yes , I'm also turning very self-ironic and self-sarcastic and turning all the 'fun' and ignorance out there against myself because it all , this 'situation treatment' lasted too long now
and I tried to save it , save smiles, save people having any sort of 'problem' with or because of me , I tried .

The thin-line ... skipping over lots of useless drama .. is somewhere at the 'ET topic' ,
the TABU .
I could have also had wiser and calmer life , without it , I was not either short of job or adventures and yes, enjoyed fairly balanced personal life till then .

I have no idea why did I trust that people would trust me - in return - for my trust . The feeling is ... more like a wildlife animal approaching 'tamed human' .
The chance that this move will be misunderstood ... for anything from incompetence to illness , or even an attempt to attack human civilisation .. is ironically , fairly high ..considering general state of human matters .

Everything could have been just 'fine' and 'right' , without my ET testimony . Of course I don't know what might have happened otherwise . Negatives are impossible to predict or prove .

I was never really concerned with the world of 'ufology' before and avoided commenting on the topic unless I'd know better . I did not know how strong this TABU stands , and yes , we're talking of our 'advanced ' western society now ,
the TABU stands tall .
It's one of those, you just never notice unless it happens to you and the chances are 1 to 1000 but I'm sure it's not the only TABU we have .

Imagine that ... it would happen to you . Sitting in front of your mum, spouses , class of people , and telling them about being an 'Extraterrestrial' and about 'ET origin of mankind' and having solid reason to do this .
Something has happened in your life , more important than they are , than they were , you met someone who were like you , finally and the Life you always belonged to .
It's a happy and exciting news in fact , if not little vulnerable .

It makes half of them jealous because they always thought being the most important for you , and also .. on the planet ... general anthropocentric principle humans don't like getting over .
Others get discretely envious , their minds flying high in the prospective halo of fame they think they could reach with such ideas , and so they ask 'why you' . Why not them . Why do you think you're 'so important' .

After hour or so of patient explaining that 'you' have no motives of taking over the world or becoming 'famous extraterrestrial' they're still bathing in their own sweat and disbelief .

It's simply not something they expected from 'you' . Someone more exxcentric should have done that . Someone with tentacles on their head , differently shaped eyes , nose , someone looking less human .

The conversation turns to pathetic display of self-pity ..

in order to make 'you' satisfied , these new 'emissaries ' of mankind attempt fresh baked conversation with the 'new option' presented to them ,

all hoping discretely it's a light hearted joke , one of 'your' didactic games you're willing to take back at next lesson.

The power of TABU comes in place ... while your audience reaches for array of memories associated with 'ET Life' , what probably comes to their mind are countless cases of mad and disproved cult leaders , people committed to mental institutions , hoaxes in Sunday papers , Star Wars and other more or less successful sci-fi and 'take me to your leader' .
Audience slowly relaxes and starts to giggle . The game is entertaining .. but how serious is it going to get ?

Strangely, most of their 'grey matter' goes blank when stating anything serious about it, maybe it shrinks in self-defence ?

Remind you , the above 'dialogue' in hardly an isolated event , in principle , there are countless other TABUs society can't get over at certain times ..
people who claim transgender identity , for example or other than 'normal' sexual orientation.
I've read some of their stories and reactions and fears of their families and friends were not dissimilar to what I've experienced in my circles .

What happens next ... well, some get 'over it' , at least best as they can and remain your friends, others don't .

There are people whom you think you can still approach , discretely at least , and discuss what to do .
The problem is when 'you' find out there's no answer because no one have them .
From the top to the bottom of academic circles there's no answer . It's not in anyones textbooks. Not anyone all around the world except for 'freaks' .

You'd have to have damn good luck to meet the next secret Einstein or Beethoven, someone whose mind can fly high .. someone not really interested in world fame and what his peers do at all times but someone intuitive and interested in pursuing the science further .

Someone who won't get another hysterical fit upon hearing you . Someone who knows what to do .
Because unless you do you're doomed .

The next thing that happens is that you're sent to explore 'like minded individuals' , the alternative community , and be judged against 'other freaks' .

Not even one of the people listed on our site , especially those concerned with claims of intelligent ET life , have scientific credibility or 'provability' in support of their claims .
There are quite few who tried to take 'the problem' to their own hands and wrong ends and 'produce' any evidence that would befit the purpose ,
from blurry photos to misunderstood MRI scans .

These people will be your 'peers' and company for long time . But it's hardly the end ..


When people figure out they're not 'ready' to deal with uncomfortable truth ..

they'll try all tactics known to them to bring you back to your senses . They loved you after all , at least so it seems .

Waterboarding is not the fashion of the day , fortunately and they're aware - some of them at least - that 'you' took more cold showers in life than them , probably .
But try all the other tactics too to let you know who you are ( really ) and how you should ( really ) feel and what you should ( really ) experience ,
to be normal you .


Should uncomfortable truth be ever mentioned ?


:bearhug:

[ulli]

Should uncomfortable truth ever be withheld?
The Aquarian spirit, symbolized by the water bearer, is pouring it out, regardless.
It has brought the quickening of the world since the middle of the nineteenth century.
First with new inventions, which shifted the old agricultural slavery to a new gear, a new type of slavery...namely factory workers.
Giving them a pittance of wages was even more convenient than owning them, and providing them with food and a roof.

But then education became more available and the old despotic rulers were dethroned, and replaced by republics.
And still the dark force borrowed deeper, and continued operated from more hidden and more deceptive vantage points. Started huge wars.

Then the Aquarian spirit erupted with more strength, during the 1960s.
For a while again, new hope.
This time the elite came out with even cleverer methods, corrupting even the most idealistic hippies, and luring them to Wall Street. And Communisim fell and the globalist had a field day. Neocons ruled.

And just when I thought all was lost we got the Internet.
If our truth would be rejected in our immediate friend and family circles, we could now tell it elsewhere, and without leaving our homes.
Let us never get bored as long as we have Internet freedom.

Let's use this coffee house (or pub) of a forum to share our progress, to hang out, to learn to make our inner alien comfortable, and then go out again and blast our truth at the world via the other social media where every day hundreds of thousands are waiting to learn more about the innermost as well as outermost dimensions.
Life is rhythmic. And that rhythm moves it on, towards more refinement.

If someone rejects our message let them go and move on yourself.
Or perhaps linger for a while in case they have a worthwhile and even better message.

The main thing is that all are free to pursue their happiness.
That is the standard.

[Carmody]

The most interesting component to come out of Lynn McTaggart's book, 'The Field', is about the nature of the universe.

That meta studies were done -studies of the studies. And then tests and studies to find out what that meant.

What they found, the most important thing they found..... is that the claim of the universe being one of intelligent matter or matter as consciousness is the more feasible scientific outlook. The only one that fit the data. Just one.


That belief and projection is the steerage point, flow point, and reality setting point. That will and drive is matter, is life, is existence, is consciousness.

That whatever the person believed going in, is what they would get, what they would reflect, what they would drive, what they would be.

That repeatedly, the best designed, most foolproof psychic testing, in scientifically perfected methodologies, found that the results depended ENTIRELY, INESCAPABLY on the projection of the administers and those involved in the testing regimen.

That you, the flowing outward point of self reflection of self, of being..that this 'you' is source, window, reality itself.

That it all comes down to you.

There is no external answer, that you are both the question and the answer.

Thousands of tests, overall, all scientifically as perfect as is possible..all saying the same thing.

Which is why there is a battle for your PERCEPTION, as perception and projection IS reality itself, in the context of the projection of this reality bubble or dimension....

Thus, one's genetic expression and then the so called physical growth of the subconscious/hindbrain into that, as child, the subconscious leaning/learning and then the internal voice emergence at age five (ego subconscious/hindbrain as voice origin), then the growth of the structure upon that.... those, as a set, that is the reality of one's experience, 100%, 150%, 1000%.

You are on your own. You are solely responsible. There is no escaping this, as you are it and it is you....(both god and cow) (god is the ultimate predator and cow, and both arise from energy grass)

But there is, as we can see, a potential to not know this, to hide from this ultimate responsibility.

That this 'place' is most likely exactly as they say it is, that it is a training ground for energy beings. With minimal rules, minimal guidelines. Or, more to the point, minimal complexity in emergence, and this is the theater floor of your learning and growth.

In the end, there is no spider, there is no web, there is only your lack of knowing of the drive in and of the self, the mechanism of that, in a setting of a reality (a ground level) created by a group consciousness.

Is the ultimate conclusion, in a pure energy system with bits of individualized energy consciousness units -- is it that energy harvesting is the fundamental in acts of illusion and projection?

In such a scenario...information control becomes a ground floor fundamental necessity for energy harvesting, in whatever form it may take, be it layered or direct/singular.

Thus, who or what is attempting to control, or dictate, or guide.... your reality perception? Is it friend or foe? Is it you, external, or both? The way out, is it connected to the way you came in?

[ulli]

One more thing I would (like to) add (starting to parrot Agape here...)

That life is ultimately about the Self, (as Carmody said, quoting Lynn McTaggart)
And that's where it all begins and ends.

And if we want to seek for the answers in the works of others,
to remember that they themselves are still experimenting in their own search.

And if they are exploring the spearhead of thought, then even more likely that there will be errors made, and the magic doesn't always work, and when the world is pressing them for more and more answers they fall into the trap of faking it.
Because all they are thinking about is how to pay the next energy bill.

So energy, or the lack thereof, IS the real cause of our own corruptability.
Life is a gymnasium. Most are here to develop virtues, and become integrated.

The prize is the discovery of the cosmic Self.
But it also has to be built, by overcoming the trickster, by polishing one's marbles,
and then being that supreme marble.
And in that process there will be mistakes made.
Let's accept it, and not whine.

"If in the last few years you haven't discarded a major opinion or acquired a new one, check your pulse. You may be dead." ~Gelett Burgess

[Curt]

The way out, is it connected to the way you came in?

What? You mean a vagina?

[Carmody]

The way out, is it connected to the way you came in?

What? You mean a vagina?

Of course not. But I'm fairly sure your response is orientated toward flippancy.

I don't' have 'the answer'. I only have my answer. If you don't have your answer, you have that given path and way, somewhere in your life.

That is a bit of a statement, which is fundamentally impossible in a energy derived system, so let's just say it is a statistically correct answer, just like that of quantum aggregates.


We have wave particle variance depending on observation and energy connection at the quantum particle/wave level.... and this arises into statistical averaging over untold trillions of quantum situations....which as a mass aggregate of them, we perceive as reality. A one and a zero, a black or a white....these are mass aggregate response patterns, they are not fundamentals.

Fundamentals, quantum particle function...is capable of variance depending upon levels and types of energy co-joining between them, with regard to our larger mass aggregate viewing and reflective existence consciousness 'in this place' point. That the thing viewing these color changes as letters and interpreting as the internal voice of self is a statistical quantum function, playing out as it's own envelope of reality, based on the lower level one.

The quantum reality of projection ....as reality formation..... as played out in the energy realm.

The vagina analogy is removed from the ground floor of the correct analysis point.... so it will fail, as it is not based on the system, it is based on the result of a projection in the system.

[Curt]

The way out, is it connected to the way you came in?

What? You mean a vagina?

Of course not. But I'm fairly sure your response is orientated toward flippancy.

Just having a bit of fun, Carmody. You know I always value your perspective- even if I don't understand it.

[Carmody]

i think we're doing it to us.

and my grand theory on why this is, is because...drumroll please...: we're bored.



Here's one for you, Mike. I think you'll like it. (NSFW warning)(tongue in cheek dark humour warning)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIpk8A8Ts3s

[Roisin]

Curt, most of here could not quite understand with any exactness what you were trying to say in your first post here in this thread. First you ramble on about crooked psychics and how much money they swindled from their clients and then somehow you segue into how screwed up "alt. media" is where you then wonder if you should just jump out of their web (of deceit) and not bother hunting the spider (the liars who operate in alt. media??).

Maybe if you were a better writer you might have been able to weave all of those elements together in a more coherent tapestry but for the most part, each of us here have only been able to break up that essay of yours and comment on only a parts of it instead of the whole.

[Curt]

Curt, most of here could not quite understand with any exactness what you were trying to say in your first post here in this thread. First you ramble on about crooked psychics and how much money they swindled from their clients and then somehow you segue into how screwed up "alt. media" is where you then wonder if you should just jump out of their web (of deceit) and not bother hunting the spider (the liars who operate in alt. media??).

Maybe if you were a better writer you might have been able to weave all of those elements together in a more coherent tapestry but for the most part, each of us here have only been able to break up that essay of your and comment on only a parts of it instead of the whole.

Perhaps. :)

[Roisin]

Very good of you to agree on that Curt and you've won my respect for doing that.... you are better writer than I am, btw.

[Hervé]

[...]
... The trick is that, in giving us “Their Mind,” they gave the whole of the duality package in pairs of opposites like: guru-suckers, black-white, master-slave, king-subject, good-bad, etc… so that the pattern repeats itself at any level -- as Mandelbrot fractals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal) do, from family to galaxies. Ever seen neighborhood kinglets and their subjects?

The thing is that either one of a pair can be switched on -- on cue -- in any one individual... sometimes in one's lifetime, sometimes in different ones but only very few remember anything and that's a damn, darn, dang clue right there that something is interfering with the memories of a vast majority of people...
[...]

To get an idea of what this refers to, see this thread (logged-on members only) for examples of some of the pairs retrieved from the "unconscious" of a few 1000s sampled individuals: Well, I Too Am Tired Of This F*cking Sh!t! (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?71935-Well-I-Too-Am-Tired-Of-This-F-cking-Sh-t-)

PS: One could also get where George Orwell got his "Newspeak" from... just dug in his own memories, somehow :)

[Flash]

What I am seeing here Agape, in my own ways of understanding, feeling and of course projecting my own, is a deep solitude one has when not only one's has experienced something nobody else has, or when one lives in depth feelings nobody else has, but as well when one cannot even rely on compassion and a glimpse of love from others, for the one who is living the extra - out of ordinary (extraordinary), the not understandable.

Lately, I have been experiencing or trying to understand life through the eyes of a friend who is literally crazy (no ET here, just plain paranoïd schizophrenia, with some acute episodes, yet, sooooo different). He is a very good teacher for my own rigidity at times and my own "crazyness", the difference being that I am quite functional and can relate to others. But this is not the point.

My point here is that even if I see his despair at times, when he is not in the full fledge "I know everything", even if I have compassion, even if my heart is out, two things are happenings: more than half the time he cannot take in what I feel for fear of his own unknowns (to him), so human connection is almost impossible on his side, and the other half of the time it is me who cannot process what he lives, it is me who cannot take it, because frankly, I do not understand - my heart loves, but I have no tools after this.

So I have to let it go. With compassion and love.

I think that most of us humans have a real hard time with changing paradigms and our beliefs system. This is a slow process in which we sometimes harm the revealer because of fear of the unknown. We are in fact, at those times, quite similar to a paranoid schizophrenic.

Yet, the revealer work is being done, having inputted slowly simmering new paradigms in others.

I am full of respect and admiration for you Agape, working in what is felt as utter solitude. And I am full of respect for some other revealers here as well.

Love

Flash



Few important observations I'd like to add ... well , that too has to be an euphemism as 'liking' is not the correct term befitting my observations ..

few thoughts to add on where the 'thin line' starts for me .

The paragraph could be titled 'Facing the Truth' but see if you as a reader can grasp my perspective .
I'm mulling over this for years now, true, because furthest we've got with the truth is something akin to balancing on a thin rope
but well , everyone has something .. yes , I'm also turning very self-ironic and self-sarcastic and turning all the 'fun' and ignorance out there against myself because it all , this 'situation treatment' lasted too long now
and I tried to save it , save smiles, save people having any sort of 'problem' with or because of me , I tried .

The thin-line ... skipping over lots of useless drama .. is somewhere at the 'ET topic' ,
the TABU .
I could have also had wiser and calmer life , without it , I was not either short of job or adventures and yes, enjoyed fairly balanced personal life till then .

I have no idea why did I trust that people would trust me - in return - for my trust . The feeling is ... more like a wildlife animal approaching 'tamed human' .
The chance that this move will be misunderstood ... for anything from incompetence to illness , or even an attempt to attack human civilisation .. is ironically , fairly high ..considering general state of human matters .

Everything could have been just 'fine' and 'right' , without my ET testimony . Of course I don't know what might have happened otherwise . Negatives are impossible to predict or prove .

I was never really concerned with the world of 'ufology' before and avoided commenting on the topic unless I'd know better . I did not know how strong this TABU stands , and yes , we're talking of our 'advanced ' western society now ,
the TABU stands tall .
It's one of those, you just never notice unless it happens to you and the chances are 1 to 1000 but I'm sure it's not the only TABU we have .

Imagine that ... it would happen to you . Sitting in front of your mum, spouses , class of people , and telling them about being an 'Extraterrestrial' and about 'ET origin of mankind' and having solid reason to do this .
Something has happened in your life , more important than they are , than they were , you met someone who were like you , finally and the Life you always belonged to .
It's a happy and exciting news in fact , if not little vulnerable .

It makes half of them jealous because they always thought being the most important for you , and also .. on the planet ... general anthropocentric principle humans don't like getting over .
Others get discretely envious , their minds flying high in the prospective halo of fame they think they could reach with such ideas , and so they ask 'why you' . Why not them . Why do you think you're 'so important' .

After hour or so of patient explaining that 'you' have no motives of taking over the world or becoming 'famous extraterrestrial' they're still bathing in their own sweat and disbelief .

It's simply not something they expected from 'you' . Someone more exxcentric should have done that . Someone with tentacles on their head , differently shaped eyes , nose , someone looking less human .

The conversation turns to pathetic display of self-pity ..

in order to make 'you' satisfied , these new 'emissaries ' of mankind attempt fresh baked conversation with the 'new option' presented to them ,

all hoping discretely it's a light hearted joke , one of 'your' didactic games you're willing to take back at next lesson.

The power of TABU comes in place ... while your audience reaches for array of memories associated with 'ET Life' , what probably comes to their mind are countless cases of mad and disproved cult leaders , people committed to mental institutions , hoaxes in Sunday papers , Star Wars and other more or less successful sci-fi and 'take me to your leader' .
Audience slowly relaxes and starts to giggle . The game is entertaining .. but how serious is it going to get ?

Strangely, most of their 'grey matter' goes blank when stating anything serious about it, maybe it shrinks in self-defence ?

Remind you , the above 'dialogue' in hardly an isolated event , in principle , there are countless other TABUs society can't get over at certain times ..
people who claim transgender identity , for example or other than 'normal' sexual orientation.
I've read some of their stories and reactions and fears of their families and friends were not dissimilar to what I've experienced in my circles .

What happens next ... well, some get 'over it' , at least best as they can and remain your friends, others don't .

There are people whom you think you can still approach , discretely at least , and discuss what to do .
The problem is when 'you' find out there's no answer because no one have them .
From the top to the bottom of academic circles there's no answer . It's not in anyones textbooks. Not anyone all around the world except for 'freaks' .

You'd have to have damn good luck to meet the next secret Einstein or Beethoven, someone whose mind can fly high .. someone not really interested in world fame and what his peers do at all times but someone intuitive and interested in pursuing the science further .

Someone who won't get another hysterical fit upon hearing you . Someone who knows what to do .
Because unless you do you're doomed .

The next thing that happens is that you're sent to explore 'like minded individuals' , the alternative community , and be judged against 'other freaks' .

Not even one of the people listed on our site , especially those concerned with claims of intelligent ET life , have scientific credibility or 'provability' in support of their claims .
There are quite few who tried to take 'the problem' to their own hands and wrong ends and 'produce' any evidence that would befit the purpose ,
from blurry photos to misunderstood MRI scans .

These people will be your 'peers' and company for long time . But it's hardly the end ..


When people figure out they're not 'ready' to deal with uncomfortable truth ..

they'll try all tactics known to them to bring you back to your senses . They loved you after all , at least so it seems .

Waterboarding is not the fashion of the day , fortunately and they're aware - some of them at least - that 'you' took more cold showers in life than them , probably .
But try all the other tactics too to let you know who you are ( really ) and how you should ( really ) feel and what you should ( really ) experience ,
to be normal you .


Should uncomfortable truth be ever mentioned ?


:bearhug:

[Carmody]

Is the Bodhisattva a form of a stage manager, for those who remain as extras on the given stage... for those stuck in layers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-NrvnoD8zE)---who have yet to get the point and message?

[Roisin]

[...]
... The trick is that, in giving us “Their Mind,” they gave the whole of the duality package in pairs of opposites like: guru-suckers, black-white, master-slave, king-subject, good-bad, etc… so that the pattern repeats itself at any level -- as Mandelbrot fractals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal) do, from family to galaxies. Ever seen neighborhood kinglets and their subjects?

The thing is that either one of a pair can be switched on -- on cue -- in any one individual... sometimes in one's lifetime, sometimes in different ones but only very few remember anything and that's a damn, darn, dang clue right there that something is interfering with the memories of a vast majority of people...
[...]

To get an idea of what this refers to, see this thread (logged-on members only) for examples of some of the pairs retrieved from the "unconscious" of a few 1000s sampled individuals: Well, I Too Am Tired Of This F*cking Sh!t! (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?71935-Well-I-Too-Am-Tired-Of-This-F-cking-Sh-t-)

PS: One could also get where George Orwell got his "Newspeak" from... just dug his own memories, somehow :)

Everything you go over in your first post in that thread is covered in the NLP book, Frogs Into Princes by Richard Bandler. Very good post and you even made it easier to understand than Bandler did.

[transiten]

Is the Bodhisattva a form of a stage manager, for those who remain as extras on the given stage... for those stuck in layers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-NrvnoD8zE)---who have yet to get the point and message?

You've got a very special style of expression Carmody and as English is not my native language i have difficulties following you at times but maybe i take it in on an unconscious level:idea: The nuns were crystal clear though:blackwidow:-or maybe not Mercury being retrograde:confused:...sorry, forgot I'm not in the Village;)

[Carmody]

Civilisation matrix is largely a problem of rich man ;) Even if you're not exactly 'rich' most probably you still have things you rely on, dwell on, material things ,
and it's not any more simple nowadays than it was thousands years ago ,

we all pay taxes for those things, for living in civilisations 'safe zone' . We pay for water to drink, nearly for air the breathe , especially the air soaked with car fuels but forget it ... it makes you feel better, you say . They say ..

And then , you want to do some 'yoga' or search for truth , or learn meditation.




As Roddy Piper said in the film 'They Live', "that's like putting perfume on a pig"

Like walking over and crushing the lives of a hundred people, to put a flower on a dying child.

You can't see a reflection in the darkness, you can only feel it's absence.

[Hervé]

Everything you go over in your first post in that thread is covered in the NLP book, Frogs Into Princes by Richard Bandler.

Well, thanks,

I never learnt anything about NLP nor read any books about it and, from what I gathered, it seems to "work" due to the existence of these pre-existing inlaid/implanted programs, as an additional layer atop those, and which triggers the deeper layers into action... anyways:

:focus:

[Roisin]

Everything you go over in your first post in that thread is covered in the NLP book, Frogs Into Princes by Richard Bandler.

Well, thanks,

I never learnt anything about NLP nor read any books about it and, from what I gathered, it seems to "work" due to the existence of these pre-existing inlaid/implanted programs, as an additional layer atop those, and which triggers the deeper layers into action... anyways:

:focus:

Well then that makes your insights on all of that even more fascinating as they are based on your own observations! I'm very impressed!

[Agape]

Civilisation matrix is largely a problem of rich man ;) Even if you're not exactly 'rich' most probably you still have things you rely on, dwell on, material things ,
and it's not any more simple nowadays than it was thousands years ago ,

we all pay taxes for those things, for living in civilisations 'safe zone' . We pay for water to drink, nearly for air the breathe , especially the air soaked with car fuels but forget it ... it makes you feel better, you say . They say ..

And then , you want to do some 'yoga' or search for truth , or learn meditation.




As Roddy Piper said in the film 'They Live', "that's like putting perfume on a pig"

Like walking over and crushing the lives of a hundred people, to put a flower on a dying child.

You can't see a reflection in the darkness, you can only feel it's absence.



Well, the other facet of the same , this time semi-global paradigm is that by doing even this little good ,
the world changes slowly for better ...

and it does , and it would .. if only those really mad people who do live in fear for their lives , actually ,
and so they built perfect villas to protect their safety and sanity ,

so frail ..

if they only could stop building up their ill aggression , turning people against people , nations and siblings, if they only could ..

stop the wars and threats .

It would then take another hundreds of years before those nightmares of past genocides would dissipate and settle like a ripple back to the ocean of common human subconscious and nature would get the time it needs to repair our genes ..


:cat:&:dog:

[Roisin]

Very interesting comment and one wonders how deep emotional trauma effects our DNA and the DNA of our offspring. Someday, we'll understand this more.

[Carmody]

It is now known that the trauma and mental state of the father affects the formation of the child.

This, due to the constant formation of DNA in sperm, sperm that is constantly being formed.

(how this is dealt with with respect to the mother, I do not know) (although it is fitting... as it is mars, Aries, the male.... which is all immediate and action oriented..thus this situation of birth inflection, is tied to the male's immediate state of self)

We now know that DNA, and thus genetic form can and does change, is capable of change, in the single lifespan.

One discovery, combined with the evidence of each, causes the knowing of the existence of the other. That, for example, a father under the threat of death, while the child is conceived... can cause and generally causes a undercurrent of the same to run through the child's existence, as a form of a permanent genetic 'mark'. The same sort of 'follow through' for any other state of being of the father, that is extant and prior to the conception moment.

In-Depth Look at History’s Largest Genetic Twin Study (http://www.biosciencetechnology.com/articles/2015/05/depth-look-historys-largest-genetic-twin-study) (not associated with the point I'm making, just something new and interesting)

[Calz]

It is now known that the trauma and mental state of the father affects the formation of the child.

This, due to the constant formation of DNA in sperm, sperm that is constantly being formed.

(how this is dealt with with respect to the mother, I do not know) (although it is fitting... as it is mars, Aries, the male.... which is all immediate and action oriented..thus this situation of birth inflection, is tied to the male's immediate state of self)

We now know that DNA, and thus genetic form can and does change, is capable of change, in the single lifespan.

One discovery, combined with the evidence of each, causes the knowing of the existence of the other. That, for example, a father under the threat of death, while the child is conceived... can cause and generally causes a undercurrent of the same to run through the child's existence, as a form of a permanent genetic 'mark'. The same sort of 'follow through' for any other state of being of the father, that is extant and prior to the conception moment.

In-Depth Look at History’s Largest Genetic Twin Study (http://www.biosciencetechnology.com/articles/2015/05/depth-look-historys-largest-genetic-twin-study)


So I can "blame" my father for what isn't "right" within me???

...

... and my two sons can carry the torch???


Me thinks taking responsibility fits in there somewhere ... but what would I know???


I expect I am missing something ... I blame my father ...

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Very interesting comment and one wonders how deep emotional trauma effects our DNA and the DNA of our offspring. Someday, we'll understand this more.

This is very interesting stuff.
I had a book about Eastern principles (did not finish it because I suck) once, and there was a section about some specific European bloodlines.
The author said that these bloodlines, having been exposed to and engaged in many centuries of infighting, raiding, tribal warfare, were a very good example of people who carry what he called "generational curses", "demons", i.e. a taint.

The Bible actually refers to generational sin and consequence too. People hate hearing that, but even from a scholarly standpoint, non-religious, the concept is worth exploring because of what we now know about DNA.

Primitive people had no way of realizing, without being told, that the very blueprint of their lives had been changed by circumstance.

To me, the funny thing about the Bible is that it's not just a spiritual book, it also appears to be a simple manual on "How Stuff Works" lol :(


p.s. what's with all the angst about identifying one's father as a point where DNA may have broken down?
This knowledge will help lots of children who have genetic diseases.
Of course in the past families probably murdered their kids instead of trying to understand genetic diseases,
as in those times reputation and the family name was more important than the life of an individual.
Which still happens in some cultures.

[Carmody]

It is now known that the trauma and mental state of the father affects the formation of the child.

This, due to the constant formation of DNA in sperm, sperm that is constantly being formed.

(how this is dealt with with respect to the mother, I do not know) (although it is fitting... as it is mars, Aries, the male.... which is all immediate and action oriented..thus this situation of birth inflection, is tied to the male's immediate state of self)

We now know that DNA, and thus genetic form can and does change, is capable of change, in the single lifespan.

One discovery, combined with the evidence of each, causes the knowing of the existence of the other. That, for example, a father under the threat of death, while the child is conceived... can cause and generally causes a undercurrent of the same to run through the child's existence, as a form of a permanent genetic 'mark'. The same sort of 'follow through' for any other state of being of the father, that is extant and prior to the conception moment.

In-Depth Look at History’s Largest Genetic Twin Study (http://www.biosciencetechnology.com/articles/2015/05/depth-look-historys-largest-genetic-twin-study)


So I can "blame" my father for what isn't "right" within me???

...

... and my two sons can carry the torch???


Me thinks taking responsibility fits in there somewhere ... but what would I know???


I expect I am missing something ... I blame my father ...

Knowing where the itch comes from makes all the difference in the world, IMO.

[Hervé]

Sorry Calz... you're back on the hook:

Regarding these DNA, genetic research, genomes, blood lines, etc... nothing to do with thee price of fish!

Here is why, from my favourite example of "spirit" powers:


[...]



Spirit Of Bear
This would have to have been one of the strangest cases that I have ever dealt with.

When the client arrived, he showed me both of his arms at the elbow, and there were scars on both because of an operation. He stated that both of his arms had been broken by an invisible force that had tried, on many occasions, to kill him.

I then asked, “How, and when, did it first start?”

The client stated that it started nine years ago when he went to a party and got drunk. The next morning he was awoken suddenly by some guy on his chest, punching the “living daylights” out of him and accusing him of stealing something.

The client also stated that he had never felt so petrified in his entire life, and from that day on, this thing had surfaced within him; it was huge and had thrown him down flights of stairs and across rooms. It had, at times, jumped out of his body and into the body of his girlfriend. It then ripped hunks of hair out of his head and clawed huge scratches in him. At times, it had even attempted to throw him out into moving traffic. When it surfaces, it throws him around the room with ease, as if he was a rag doll, and he had no way of stopping it.

[...]

As my friend accessed the client's etheric field and onto his T1 (individual time line), she stated, “Oh my god, it's a bear. It has just bitten off his right arm, broken his left arm and is clawing him to death.”

I then asked the client's spirit, “Are we dealing with the spirit of a bear?” And it indicated, “Yes.”

I then asked the client's spirit how far back in time did this bear become trapped in the field of this being?

[...]

The story now unfolded as the spirit of the client was reliving the event that occurred 1,500 years ago.

He stated, “I am a hunter and I have just trapped this bear. I thought it was dead, but as I approach it, I see that it's not dead and it turns on me. It has me down and has just bitten off my right arm, broken my left arm and is clawing me to death; I feel petrified as I am dying.”

What has occurred is that both he and the bear are full of fear, as the bear is also dying. They both die and create an integrated universe of fear, which they are both trapped in.

This internal, integrated universe had become a sleeper and was awoken nine years ago, when the client awoke with some guy on his chest belting the daylights out of him. As he had never been so petrified in his entire life, this petrified, internal creation had triggered off this sleeping dimension, and the bear was also trapped in it--the yawning and belching was the bear coming out of its hibernation as it awoke and wanted out of his field.

That wasn't all!

At the end of the session my assistant commented, “Look at his arms and his fingernails!” We did and the hairs on his arms were at least an inch long; his fingernails were the longest fingernails I had ever seen on a male--they were more like claws. The client then commented that now made so much sense, as all of my life I would wake up having nightmares about being attacked by a bear. He then took off his shirt. The hairs on his chest, and all over his back and backside, were three-inches long. The spirit of the bear was gradually attempting to manifest into this reality, as it was trapped within the client's field.

[...]It just shows that the bear's "genetic" blue print started to overcome the human's genetic pool... both tied by the "fear" factor. Imagine that man meeting a woman with a similar bear make up... and they would start a human-bear hybrid blood line.

[...]

See?

Nothing physical was remaining from the initial incident which occurred on a different continent in another era... [I]WHAT recreated it if not the memory/blue print of it!?!

[Calz]

Knowing where the itch comes from makes all the difference in the world, IMO.




My father worked very hard ... several jobs so my mother could stay home with the kids.

I work very hard overnight shift which in essence gives up my life for my family.


I only suggest there are variants and alternative stories among we the masses.

[3(C)+me]

From Herve:
The trick is that, in giving us “Their Mind,” they gave the whole of the duality package in pairs of opposites like: guru-suckers, black-white, master-slave, king-subject, good-bad, etc… so that the pattern repeats itself at any level -- as Mandelbrot fractals do, from family to galaxies. Ever seen neighborhood kinglets and their subjects?

The thing is that either one of a pair can be switched on -- on cue -- in any one individual... sometimes in one's lifetime, sometimes in different ones but only very few remember anything and that's a damn, darn, dang clue right there that something is interfering with the memories of a vast majority of people... like being told while watching a timepiece dangling in front of their face: "Remember to forget everything when you get back there..." As for the ones who do remember something, they are ridiculed, laughed at, burnt at stakes, locked up in psychiatric wards, stuffed with antidepressants, etc...

Simon Parkes quoted one of his Mantid mentor imparting to him: “They are not supposed to remember!” in regards to abductees. Whole batches of abductees are implanted or “programmed,” every night, “To remember to forget” along with other "programs."


When no one takes up the king-guru-master polarity on cue, the suckers-subjects-slaves can’t help but elect someone as king-boss-owner or as a reluctant messiah… and the “elected” one switches on the corresponding implant.

When one gets an inkling that this kind of hypnotic-trance implantation of behaviours and marching orders have been going on for eons on this planet (see this thread: MATRIX REVEALED -- Analysis & Solutions) one can get an idea of the size of the task in “waking up” people.

YES, YES, YES. I have been mulling this over for quite sometime but what to do about it?
Another one of their wonderful gifts to us is our innate need to worship some being we think has more of the story and is going to save us from this pit of hell that this world can be at times. Most of us here on the forum has been outsiders to some degree because I think we all knew before we knew that something was not right with the official story, but could never put our finger on it. When I think about it is a miracle that any of us have gotten this far and know as much as we know about the matrix because they are pulling out all the stops and it has worked for thousands and thousands of years.
It's those damn CIA operatives dressed up in teacher-channeler clothing that we now have to deal with.

[ulli]

It is now known that the trauma and mental state of the father affects the formation of the child.

This, due to the constant formation of DNA in sperm, sperm that is constantly being formed.

(how this is dealt with with respect to the mother, I do not know) (although it is fitting... as it is mars, Aries, the male.... which is all immediate and action oriented..thus this situation of birth inflection, is tied to the male's immediate state of self)

We now know that DNA, and thus genetic form can and does change, is capable of change, in the single lifespan.

One discovery, combined with the evidence of each, causes the knowing of the existence of the other. That, for example, a father under the threat of death, while the child is conceived... can cause and generally causes a undercurrent of the same to run through the child's existence, as a form of a permanent genetic 'mark'. The same sort of 'follow through' for any other state of being of the father, that is extant and prior to the conception moment.

In-Depth Look at History’s Largest Genetic Twin Study (http://www.biosciencetechnology.com/articles/2015/05/depth-look-historys-largest-genetic-twin-study)


So I can "blame" my father for what isn't "right" within me???

...

... and my two sons can carry the torch???


Me thinks taking responsibility fits in there somewhere ... but what would I know???


I expect I am missing something ... I blame my father ...

Neither father, nor mother, matter ultimately, but you, Cal.
You matter, and the you you are today, most of all.
And the lessons you learnt along the way concerning blame.

I AM/ WE ARE the result of both an action oriented male, and the receptive, and also obstacling female.

Our of those two comes the third force, that of reconciliation.
Three forces: affirming, denying, reconciling.

Most stay stuck in either #1 or #2.
The waking up happens only when one moves away from the either/or but to the next level, #3, non-attached.
And no one can make that step for another.

Once you make it to #3 it all gets repeated with new players and a new stage setting...

[Calz]

Sorry Calz... you're back on the hook:




Interesting.

So offering an honest opinion puts me "back on the hook"???


https://justkickthecan.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/funny-fish-piercing-hook.jpg?w=605

[Curt]

Ok, it's been long enough now...

It's high time for a picture of a cartoon spider... :)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jdkagzVMF3k/UNwKnQ64IPI/AAAAAAAAAVc/irjI5flv5UA/s1600/finished-cartoon-spider.png

And a beer...:beer:

Mods, would you please close this thread.

Thanks to everyone who contributed. It was a wild, fun ride.

Night y'all.

[Flash]

It even gets freakier than what is below, not only the state of mind of the father may influence the not yet conceived child, but the genetic of all the men the mother previously slept with.

The genes snippets of previous males a woman slept with are often found in her bloodstream, years later. And guess what, this blood Stream is what help construct the cells of the unborn child, feeding them, with many males genetics.

I am now mentally/emotionally revising everyone I ever slept with!!! Gosh, I should have known that at 20.

So Calz, it is not the fault of you father, but the fault of ALL men your mom ever had in her bed!:muscle:

This is truly not knowing where the itch comes from (sorry Carmody, back to square one).

Got to make this relevant to this OP intentions. So, all these false prophets, these psychopatic on top of hierarchy attract more female, sleep with more and get their gene snippets propagate and influence more, even if not making children. It is their falt!!:bigsmile:f

So, as Ulli says, we are to discover whom we are, do balancing act as well, often not remotely knowing who our ancestors were or whom genetic we carry.

Scientists have discovered that a sizeable minority of women have Y-chromosome gene sequences in their blood. This is interesting because as you may know, Y-chromosomes are the chromosomes that belong to men, so ladies, what are they doing there, and where did they come from?.......This called for a study (2) that was done by immunologists at the Fred Hutchinson Caner Center in 2004. In this study they took samples from 120 women who had never had sons. They found that 21% of these women had male DNA. The women were then categorized into 4 groups according to pregnancy history: Group A had only daughters, Group B had had one or more miscarriage(s), Group C had induced abortions and Group D had never been pregnant before. The prevalence of male michrochimerism was considerably greater in Group C although it was still present in each group. Group A 8%, Group B 22%, Group C 57% and Group D 10%.

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/03/18/this-study-will-make-you-think-twice-about-who-you-are-getting-into-bed-with/






It is now known that the trauma and mental state of the father affects the formation of the child.

This, due to the constant formation of DNA in sperm, sperm that is constantly being formed.

(how this is dealt with with respect to the mother, I do not know) (although it is fitting... as it is mars, Aries, the male.... which is all immediate and action oriented..thus this situation of birth inflection, is tied to the male's immediate state of self)

We now know that DNA, and thus genetic form can and does change, is capable of change, in the single lifespan.

One discovery, combined with the evidence of each, causes the knowing of the existence of the other. That, for example, a father under the threat of death, while the child is conceived... can cause and generally causes a undercurrent of the same to run through the child's existence, as a form of a permanent genetic 'mark'. The same sort of 'follow through' for any other state of being of the father, that is extant and prior to the conception moment.

In-Depth Look at History’s Largest Genetic Twin Study (http://www.biosciencetechnology.com/articles/2015/05/depth-look-historys-largest-genetic-twin-study)


So I can "blame" my father for what isn't "right" within me???

...

... and my two sons can carry the torch???


Me thinks taking responsibility fits in there somewhere ... but what would I know???


I expect I am missing something ... I blame my father ...

Knowing where the itch comes from makes all the difference in the world, IMO.

[Hervé]

As requested by the OP, I am now closing this thread.

Thread closed.

[Hervé]

At the OP request, this thread is re-opened for traffic :)

Cheers!

[Curt]

Here's a great video- a talk given by Mark Passio on the Hermetic principles.

It's about an hour long, and in it he addresses the 7 main hermetic laws, and mentions a key 8th principle that ties them all together.

It's very easy to listen to and to understand.

He also speaks briefly about what I would call the 'New Age' trap; he addresses this topic seamlessly and organically within the context of his discussion on hermetic principles.

I just listened to this today for the first time and got a lot out of it.

1Bs6sWFvJbU

[Earthlink]

hmmm ... an idea just occurred to me while reading what Dennis said above here about expatriating himself, and that is this: would the Native North Americans to stand up and become self governing themselves, a new world could be built right on top of the old. Create their own bank and everything. Their own government, their own currency, their own everything, and, they do have legitimate grounds to do so. What is the difference between our ancestors coming here and they had to join us vs we are here now and could simply join them?

Just a thought.

[RunningDeer]

Thanks, Curt. This is the short movie Mark referenced on how the universe is fractal in nature @11:30 (https://youtu.be/1Bs6sWFvJbU?t=11m30s).

Powers of Ten takes us on an adventure in magnitudes. Starting at a picnic by the lakeside in Chicago, this famous film transports us to the outer edges of the universe. Every ten seconds we view the starting point from ten times farther out until our own galaxy is visible only a s a speck of light among many others. Returning to Earth with breathtaking speed, we move inward- into the hand of the sleeping picnicker- with ten times more magnification every ten seconds. Our journey ends inside a proton of a carbon atom within a DNA molecule in a white blood cell. POWERS OF TEN © 1977 EAMES OFFICE LLC (Available at www.eamesoffice.com)


Powers of Ten™ (1977)
0fKBhvDjuy0

[Curt]

Paula,

Thanks for sharing the video. I will check it out ASAP. I had made a mental note while listening to Passio's presentation to check it out and then promptly forgot. I probably need some ginkgo. :)

[RunningDeer]

Paula,

Thanks for sharing the video. I will check it out ASAP. I had made a mental note while listening to Passio's presentation to check it out and then promptly forgot. I probably need some ginkgo. :)

I'm half way through a second listen. Mark's videos are informative. With some I can't listen to for more than 15-20 minutes because of his tone.

Solution? I download them using a free software from aimersoft.com (http://www.aimersoft.com). It converts it into different formats like audio or video. That way I pick up where I left off, rewind parts or listen on an iPod.

[Curt]

Thanks again, Paula. :)

Here's another Mark Passio video. This one is maybe even a better fit for this thread than the last; here, he takes the 'New Age' to task, and discusses, point by point, all the ways it, as a movement, actually serves the agenda of the elite.

He's very direct, pulls no punches and, even though his talk might ruffle a few feathers, he's speaking from the heart, imo.

It's from the Free Your Mind Conference, 2013. Many will have already seen it.

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[Curt]

Here's a nifty tune from a classic episode of The Simpsons... If only all 'Monorail' salesman were this obvious...

...Come to think of it, most of them are. :)

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[Curt]

There's a little spider hanging over my desk, dangling down from the ceiling just a few feet away from me. Guess he must like my company.

Seems like an alright little fellow, and I intend to let him be. :)

This synchronistic little reminder is interesting, though- and brings me back to the topic of this thread.

...Actually, looking up at him again... I think he's already dead. Yep. He is.

So, there's that.

[Hervé]

As hinted above and as requested by the OP, that's that for this thread:

Thread closed.