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Selkie
3rd August 2015, 16:22
I found this this morning,

http://www.americastestkitchenfeed.com/atk-radio/2015/08/chimps-who-cook-at-jane-goodalls-congo-sanctuary-chimps-are-cooking-up-dinner/


This week we explore the Congo, where chimps prefer cooked to raw food, understand the cooking process, and are willing to wait to eat a cooked meal.

Chimps at the Jane Goodall Congo Sanctuary actually prefer cooked food to raw food. To me, this has staggering implications, which the researchers go into in the interview, although the interview is only about 17 minutes long.

addition The study sounds very well conducted, and the researchers sound like really sincere, honest people.

Fellow Aspirant
4th August 2015, 00:24
And they could, apparently, cook their own food if they had the right kit. Here's a short interview from a June issue of New Scientist in which one researcher, Felix Warneken, tested whether chimps had the patience to cook their food rather than eating it immediately in its raw state. Some could!

3 June 2015

Chimps with magic stove show evolutionary capacity for cooking

Cooking is a complex skill requiring patience and foresight as well as fire. Felix Warneken sent chimps to the experimental kitchen to test what they could do.


“Chimps offer us an amazing opportunity to better understand how some of our most complex behaviour may have evolved.”

Q: Why try to gauge the ability of chimpanzees to grasp the concept of cooking?

A: Cooking food spurred a fundamental change in the human species. Cooking makes many foods more digestible and allows us to extract more energy – things we need to sustain our large brains. But we don’t know when or how cooking evolved.

By looking at our closest living relatives, chimpanzees, we have an opportunity to make comparisons with our closest evolutionary ancestors and see whether they might have had the core cognitive skills to cook food. It’s almost like we can step into a time machine that can help us better understand our evolutionary past.

Q: Do chimpanzees have the abilities required for cooking?

A: Cooking requires a lot more than just access to a fire. It takes a lot of patience. You have to resist the urge to eat the raw food, you have to understand the transformation process and you have to hold on to the food and transport it so it can be cooked in the future.

It is a more complex skill set than you might think – and requires a good bit of inhibiting impulses. So we tested all of those cognitive skills across nine experiments and found that chimpanzees had many of the cognitive and behavioural abilities required for cooking, although not a fully sufficient set.

And that tells us that those abilities were probably part of the repertoire of the last common ancestors of humans and chimpanzees and so evolved fairly early in evolutionary time.

Q: How did you give chimps access to cooking? Surely you didn’t let them play with stoves?

A: Obviously, we couldn’t use fire to cook because it would be dangerous. So to test the chimpanzees’ understanding of the transformation, we created a novel cooking device. Really, it was just a magician’s box with a simple false bottom where we would put the cooked food.

The chimpanzee would place a slice of raw potato into the device, shake it, and then the cooked slice would appear. So it seemed as if the raw food turned into cooked food. But it worked. Even after a single session, the animals reliably wanted the cooking device so they could “cook” their potato.

Q: You discovered that the chimpanzees could transport raw food for cooking. Can you tell me more about that?

A: In the wild, chimpanzees tend to forage – they just snack while they go. But cooking requires you to take the food back to somewhere to do the cooking. And it’s not that easy. Even we humans sometimes can’t resist the urge to nibble as we are cooking our own dinners. But many of the animals were able to do it. We saw one chimp try very admirably to carry the food 4 metres to the cooking device.

But unfortunately, he tried to carry it with his lips, so he kept “accidentally” eating it. Another chimpanzee would run over to the cooking site very quickly, holding the piece of potato as far away from himself as possible, seemingly so he wouldn’t be tempted. It was challenging for them, but many of the chimps were still able to anticipate cooking in the future and therefore save food for that future use. It was remarkable.

Q: Were you surprised by your findings?

A: I’ve been working with chimpanzees for over 10 years – and they keep surprising me by how smart they are. It’s amazing how quickly they learn and make inferences.

It’s important to understand that we don’t train the chimpanzees in any of these studies. We simply show them a certain kind of problem and then watch how they solve it. And, as you observe them, it’s like you can actually see the light bulb go on. They really do offer us an amazing opportunity to better understand how some of our most complex behaviour may have evolved.


Profile

Felix Warneken is an evolutionary anthropologist at Harvard University, where he explores the origin and development of complex social behaviour. The study mentioned took place at the Tchimpounga Sanctuary for primates, in the Republic of the Congo

Selkie
4th August 2015, 00:50
Yes, and to me, all of that has huge implications, especially the fact that they preferred cooked food so much that they were willing to delay their gratification in order to have it. It says so much about the importance of self-control, and so much about how our society is constantly encouraging us to NOT control ourselves, and to NOT delay gratifying ourselves. It might imply that our have-it-right-now society is causing us to subtly de-evolve in ways that we might not recognize.

To me, it also makes sense of psychopathy, because psychopaths are very poor at delaying their gratification,


Impulsive

The decision making process of psychopaths is not complicated. They do things because they feel like it. They want satisfaction and gratification and they want it now. By the age of two we are learning to delay gratification. Psychopaths seem to never learn this.

http://www.decision-making-confidence.com/psychopath-symptoms.html

And that is just one aspect of the implications of the study...to me, at any rate.

lucidity
4th August 2015, 03:29
Hello Siblings,

Humans and chimps show a preference for sweet foods.
These foods are rich in carbohydrates (starchy veggies and fruits)
This preference was set up sometime earlier than 3 million years ago
(when humans and chimps were the same species - theoretically)

Cooking breaks down complex carbohydrates into simple carbohydrates,
the result is that the food tastes sweeter. If there is an animal species that
prefers cooked food, this is an acid test for whether this species is
primarily a vegetarian. And vice versa ... if there is an animal that is
primarily vegetarian, this species will prefer cooked food. Only because
cooking makes foods taste sweeter.

Hence, I predict in advance that both horses and sheep will prefer cooked
food. This prediction isn't as far sighted as it might sound; I already know
from my own experience that horses and sheep love carrots and apples.
As an aside, if you want to make _big_ friends with a horse or sheep... offer
them bananas... they'll come running. (This should also work with cows & goats)

Cooking also breaks down many other components of the food: poisonous
toxins in the food are also destroyed. This is why we must cook foods that
contain dangerous toxins. Which are these foods ? They are wheat, rice,
barley, beans and peas (especially kidney beans) and potatoes.
Most people do not know that these foods are toxic if eaten raw.

But cooking also destroys many beneficial chemicals in food such as
enzymes, poly-unsaturated fatty acids, natural antibiotics and various vitamins.
Don't underestimate the effect of destroying the natural antibiotics in foods.

Because the food tastes sweeter cooked, doesn't mean it's better for you.
No one is claiming cancer curing benefits from eating cooked carrots. If you want
miraculous medicinal benefits from carrots, you have to juice them raw.
For evidence that this is correct... See the abundant literature on the Gerson Therapy.

If you want to improve your health, eat more raw foods. More salads, raw carrots,
raw beetroot, raw parsnips, berries, salads, fruits, berries, nuts and seeds.
Buy a juicer and drink your raw fruit and raw veggies.

Do what the paleo people do: Don't eat foods that you can't eat raw:
grains (wheat, barley, rice, quinoa, etc) , potatoes, beans & peas.
And don't lose the health benefits in food by cooking it unnecessarily.

be happy :-)

lucidity

giovonni
4th August 2015, 03:41
Thanks ...

here's more ...

https://ipon.hu/_userfiles/Image/Jools/2015/jun1-7/chimpcooks.jpg

From NPR

Chimps Are No Chumps: Give Them An Oven, They'll Learn To Cook (http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/06/03/411748170/chimps-are-no-chumps-give-them-an-oven-theyll-learn-to-cook)

Bubu
4th August 2015, 04:55
One, everyone is unique
two, there is intentions to mislead the masses
The best way in my case to know what is good or bad for the body is to feel the food before actually consuming it. If I am not able to feel or have difficulty I first drink water. The next time hunger knocks it is clearer to me what my body needs.
My conclusion: there are foods that needs to be cook and there are also those that need not be cook. Even foods that have toxins also brings benefits to the body when it is the right time to consume it. One simple trick I learn is to enjoy the meal. That is when I eat I focus my attention on the food. And try to forget everything

dim
4th August 2015, 05:12
what they found out, without knowing it yet, is that paradise is corruptible
that nature is innocent and doesn't have defenses against artificial manipulations
i am guessing that just about every animal would prefer sugar over anything
that doesn't mean sugar, or cooked food is good for you, that's rushed conclusion
it only means that we can easily hack sensitive eco- systems
their only salvation is the fact they can't find it in abundance, nature if left alone is perfectly balanced

but we can't leave it alone, can we ?

Sailing Beyond Knowledge
4th August 2015, 05:13
This is no surprise, we did the same and cooked food allowed our brains to grow bigger, not that that makes us superior or civilized. We can only really be called civilized when we stop killing each other and torturing and killing other species for profit or entertainment. We need to evolve to ecology, perhaps these chimps will take our place and be much more peaceful than we are pK7Eeoypxfc

Cidersomerset
4th August 2015, 06:31
There were some amusing if unethical adds back in the day...LOL

Q_sLS4XGUe0


====================================================
====================================================

The chimpanzee world is as complex as humans and they are capable of the same
joy , wonder , inquisitiveness , promiscuous, adventure , violence and social
interactions as us just on a smaller scale . As in the Planet of the apes they
possibly could evolve into a higher species for good or bad. The 'Evergreens'
told Bob Dobbs that the Booteens who created us altered our thumbs and vocal
cords and possibly some other aspects to create homo sapien sapien , from an
existing hominoid already evolving on earth hundreds of thousands of years ago.
possible creation story ? I have posted a presentation of Bob at the
1999 UFO con conference I think off hand.......got to go I'm late for work..LOL

lunaflare
4th August 2015, 08:34
Do what the paleo people do: Don't eat foods that you can't eat raw:
grains (wheat, barley, rice, quinoa, etc) , potatoes, beans & peas.
And don't lose the health benefits in food by cooking it unnecessarily.

By this reasoning, don't eat meat

Carmody
4th August 2015, 13:03
Traditionally, theorists tried to tackle the enigmatic beast by looking at higher levels of human consciousness, for example, self-consciousness — the knowledge that you exist — or theory of mind — that you and others have differing beliefs, intents, desires and perspectives. While fascinating on a philosophical level, this approach is far too complex to explain on a fundamental level what consciousness is for.

Instead, Morsella believes that studying basic consciousness ­— the awareness of a color, an urge, a sharp pain — is what will lead to a breakthrough.

“If a creature has an experience of any kind — something it is like to be that creature ­ — then it has this form of consciousness,” Morsella said in an email to Singularity Hub. It doesn’t have to be high-level, and “ it’s unlikely to be unique to humans.”

The Passive Frame Theory goes like this: nearly all the decisions and thoughts that need to be made throughout the day are performed by many parts of the unconscious brain, well below our level of awareness.

When the time comes to physically act on a decision, various unconscious processes deliver their opinions to a central “hub,” like voters congregating at town hall. The hub listens in on the conversation, but doesn’t participate; all it does is provide a venue for differing opinions to integrate and decide on a final outcome. Once the unconscious makes a final decision on how to physically act (or react), the hub — consciousness — executes that work and then congratulates itself for figuring out a tough problem.

In a way, the unconscious mind is like a group of talented ghostwriters working on a movie script for a celebrated screenwriter. If all goes smoothly, they bypass the screenwriter and deliver the final product straight to the next level. If, on the other hand, conflict arises — say the ghostwriters differ in their ideas on how the story should unfold — their argument may reach the ears of that famous screenwriter, who becomes aware of the problem, but nevertheless sits and waits for the writers to figure it all out. Once that happens, the screenwriter hands off the script, and gets all the credit.

http://singularityhub.com/2015/08/02/think-your-conscious-brain-directs-your-actions-think-again/

Note that 'consciousness' as people call it, appears to be designed to deal with conflict and issues of differential.

Thus the key to controlling people lies in keeping them consciously..asleep... unaware. Literally. And when conflict reaches consciousness... to make sure the deeper drives have a prepared answer to reach for. Think about it. Child's play, to know that you are 'played', once you think about it for a bit.

That control of humanity has to do with keeping the decision tree in a position of following internal drives, internal compulsions... so outcomes are never considered. To keep changes just below the internal horizon of the consciousness consideration. That this is known (generally) by people, in general, but this theory of internal systems - illustrates it in absolutism and realization of actual form and function. Scientific realization is key to framing the argument in the form of making it public discourse.

This, besides the effect of illustrating that all of the earths creatures, for the most part, have some form of consciousness.

lucidity
4th August 2015, 15:15
Do what the paleo people do: Don't eat foods that you can't eat raw:
grains (wheat, barley, rice, quinoa, etc) , potatoes, beans & peas.
And don't lose the health benefits in food by cooking it unnecessarily.

By this reasoning, don't eat meat

hi lunaflare,

Well... by that reasoning _do_ eat meat.

1. "Do what the paleo people do..."
Paleo people _do_ eat meat.

2. "Don't eat foods that you can't eat raw"

You can eat raw meat when the animal has been freshly sacrificed.

If the animal was sacrificed days or weeks or months ago, and there's been
some refrigeration, and possibly re-refrigeration, then it's advisable to cook
the meat in order to protect yourself from invasive bacteria.

Some parts of a dead animal require particular processing...
You might want to avoid the stomach, intestines and colon
(if only because of their contents)

Don't eat the liver of any carnivore... there are likely to
be toxic levels of vitamin A.

But note that meat is massively more nutritious eaten raw.

be happy :-)

lucidity

Selkie
4th August 2015, 15:31
There were some amusing if unethical adds back in the day...LOL

Q_sLS4XGUe0


================================================== ==
================================================== ==

The chimpanzee world is as complex as humans and they are capable of the same
joy , wonder , inquisitiveness , promiscuous, adventure , violence and social
interactions as us just on a smaller scale . As in the Planet of the apes they
possibly could evolve into a higher species for good or bad. The 'Evergreens'
told Bob Dobbs that the Booteens who created us altered our thumbs and vocal
cords and possibly some other aspects to create homo sapien sapien , from an
existing hominoid already evolving on earth hundreds of thousands of years ago.
possible creation story ? I have posted a presentation of Bob at the
1999 UFO con conference I think off hand.......got to go I'm late for work..LOL

Thanks, Cider :)

Years ago, there was a tv series called Lancelot Link. It was really funny.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d5dKBMK5mo

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Do what the paleo people do: Don't eat foods that you can't eat raw:
grains (wheat, barley, rice, quinoa, etc) , potatoes, beans & peas.
And don't lose the health benefits in food by cooking it unnecessarily.

By this reasoning, don't eat meat

hi lunaflare,

Well... by that reasoning _do_ eat meat.

1. "Do what the paleo people do..."
Paleo people _do_ eat meat.

2. "Don't eat foods that you can't eat raw"

You can eat raw meat when the animal has been freshly sacrificed.

If the animal was sacrificed days or weeks or months ago, and there's been
some refrigeration, and possibly re-refrigeration, then it's advisable to cook
the meat in order to protect yourself from invasive bacteria.

Some parts of a dead animal require particular processing...
You might want to avoid the stomach, intestines and colon
(if only because of their contents)

Don't eat the liver of any carnivore... there are likely to
be toxic levels of vitamin A.

But note that meat is massively more nutritious eaten raw.

be happy :-)

lucidity

Thanks, Lucidity. I cured myself of Type 2 diabetes with a paleo diet, and one of my favorite foods is carpaccio,

http://sandiegodowntownnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Beef-carpaccio-web.jpg

Chimps also hunt and eat meat, although I don't think any research has been done to find out whether they prefer it raw or cooked,


http://www-bcf.usc.edu/~stanford/chimphunt.html

When Jane Goodall first observed wild chimpanzees hunting and eating meat nearly 40 years ago, skeptics suggested that their behavior was aberrant and that the amount of meat eaten was trivial. Today, we know that chimpanzees everywhere eat mainly fruit, but are also predators in their forest ecosystems. In some sites the quantity of meat eaten by a chimpanzee community may approach one ton annually. Recently revealed aspects of predation by chimpanzees, such as its frequency and the use of meat as a political and reproductive tool, have important implications for research on the origins of human behavior. These findings come at a time when many anthropologists argue for scavenging rather than hunting as a way of life for early human ancestors. Research into the hunting ecology of wild chimpanzees may therefore shed new light on the current debate about the origins of human behavior.

lunaflare
4th August 2015, 21:00
I know many on the paleo diet and they all cook their meat. Indigenous cultures appear to have all eaten cooked animal meat (and in small quantities). I would agree and venture to say that meat is more nutritious when eaten raw. The body structure and digestion processes of carnivore animals are well designed to eat meat. The human being, in my opinion based upon my research, not so.

Selkie
4th August 2015, 21:37
I know many on the paleo diet and they all cook their meat. Indigenous cultures appear to have all eaten cooked animal meat (and in small quantities). I would agree and venture to say that meat is more nutritious when eaten raw. The body structure and digestion processes of carnivore animals are well designed to eat meat. The human being, in my opinion based upon my research, not so.

I would cook pork, chicken and hamburger well-done. Fish I would cook thoroughly unless I was at a good sushi restaurant. But I like a filet mignon extremely rare...seared on the outside and raw in the center.

p.s. Because they are so intelligent, I 'd be willing to bet that chimps would learn to use fire very quickly if someone showed them how. Or given the right conditions, I bet they'd figure it out for themselves if they watched humans using fire often enough.

phillipbbg
4th August 2015, 22:07
So the more you desire and consume cooked foods the more like a chimp you become.... makes sense..

So now TPTB have realised all they have to do is get us to cook our food and this will drop our intelligence level to that of a chimp... who needs fluoride when you have a microwave and stove.

Mmmmm

Selkie
4th August 2015, 22:09
So the more you desire and consume cooked foods the more like a chimp you become.... makes sense..

So now TPTB have realised all they have to do is get us to cook our food and this will drop our intelligence level to that of a chimp... who needs fluoride when you have a microwave and stove.

Mmmmm

Actually, the study implies the opposite...the more raw food you consume, the more chimp-like you become. Humans cook their foods; chimps do not.