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Ted
15th August 2015, 18:46
Eternal damnation is a concept often associated with fundamentalist preachers, or a bible thumping faithful issuing a self righteous proclamation onto the wicked.
"For your crimes against God you will burn in hell for all eternity!"
Pretty nasty stuff.
Our fist thought is that a loving God would never do that to His children. We then dismiss the thought as the ravings of an ignorant or misinformed believer.
We also think of these types of religious proclamations to be a controlling mechanism of the church. They are just using fear to keep the congregation in line.
However, what if there is a grain of truth in this damnation stuff? Since our memory is wiped clean at birth, how do we know that we didn't seriously screw up somewhere along the line and, as a result, end up here? This world is certainly no picnic.
As far as I can see, this reality is a form of damnation. Who would choose this place to live if given a better choice?
If we truly have free will, and were given a choice, then it seems to me we are punishing ourselves by coming here. Why would we want to punish ourselves?
This brings up all the same old questions pertaining to the meaning of life. I would entertain some of those here but I am starting to believe more and more that there is no meaning to this reality. I think it only has meaning if we give it meaning, and it only has value if we value it. I think it's a self determined, DIY universe.
The only thing I can see in this reality of any value is love, and I know it didn't originate here. Perhaps following it back it it's source would be a worthwhile endeavor.

OMG
15th August 2015, 19:18
There's nothing anyone could do within a human lifespan worthy of eternal anything.

God is Love, but you could also say God is and or responsible for everything - or even the ideas or potentials of everything...

Some esoteric groups say our consciousness devolved into the lower dimension/density states. But we have the ability to evolve our consciousness and reality into higher states. However, we could also devolve further.

Ron Mauer Sr
15th August 2015, 19:30
I can only answer for myself, based on what information (true and false) I've received and whatever programming may have occurred over the last 72 years. All filtered by my intuition. All subject to change as I learn more.

Looking at the old and new testaments, it looks like God got better as He(?) got older. The nasty stuff is all designed to control.

Who would choose this place to live if given a better choice? Good question. Perhaps there is a larger, non-physical, wiser part of ourselves who is part of the decision making process. Perhaps by participating in this reality, co-creating with our thoughts, the universe expands beyond where thought has taken us before. Life automatically provides contrast. When we know what we don't want, we know what we do want. By deliberate focusing on things we do want (not the lack of, but abundance) we put that in our escrow account for us and all to enjoy later.

We have the freedom and ability to improve and tell the story of our lives. Each day improve the story that automatically is put in our escrow account, our virtual reality. That becomes our future reality.

I sincerely feel we are powerful co-creators, inseparable extensions of non-physical Source energy. We can restrict or block receiving the energies of well being and creation from Source with dis-empowering and fearful thoughts, but the energies are always there.

I suspect the control freaks and energy parasites have put a tremendous effort into programming us with thoughts of powerlessness and fear, all :bs: .

Recognizing much of what is wrong with the world may have some value for lesser problems. But the big solutions will come from inspiration when we are feeling our best. Good idea to meditate.

Years ago I spent some time in boot camp as a Marine recruit. Not fun, but I knew it would end soon and life would improve. Maybe this life experience is similar, perhaps this life experience is simply:


*boot camp for consciousness*.


Instead of learning military discipline and weapons handling, we are learning how to use the most powerful of resources, our disciplined thoughts, transmuting dis-empowerment and fear into love, positive expectations and joyful experience.

"If you want it, you can have it. Just get out of the way." Abraham-Hicks (http://www.abraham-hicks.com/lawofattractionsource/index.php)

Try it, you'll like it. (with apologies) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qdfMYFl0Ic)

ZooLife
15th August 2015, 19:50
Damn Nation

Some would say we are already there.


I say, let's barbeque.

Ted
15th August 2015, 20:02
Thanks for your thoughts, it's a far reaching subject!
I've come to the point in my life where I just don't want to be in this reality anymore. I'm living the "American Dream" but it doesn't mean anything to me, it's all a smoke screen. Without peace, love and joy life is reduced to and endless series of burdens and headaches.
Even in death, we don't really leave. We just retire into a different perception of the same delusion. We don't "come back" as a new body either, because we never really left. It's an endless cycle of changes until we find the one way exit door.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Damn Nation

Some would say we are already there.


I say, let's barbeque.

I'll drink to that! :cocktail:

Ron Mauer Sr
15th August 2015, 20:29
Years ago (1977) I was having a minor spiritual crisis and found much improvement reading Richard Bach's book Illusions.

Here are some quotes from the book. (https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/30365-illusions-the-adventures-of-a-reluctant-messiah)

Another big one was by Jane Roberts, The Education of Oversoul 7 (http://smile.amazon.com/Education-Oversoul-7-Jane-roberts/dp/0671807943/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1439670295&sr=8-2&keywords=the+education+of+oversoul).

Hoping that you will find them of interest Ted. Good luck on your journey.

Rocky_Shorz
15th August 2015, 23:07
all I have to say is religions were created here on earth by man...

how could anyone know for sure what comes before or after life on earth.

Rulers needed control and needed a power above them to keep the population in control...

In my dreams I visited Nirvana and heaven...

I watched child spirits return to earth...

I can say, it is easier to recycle/cleanse a problem spirit that killed others here on earth than it is to have them join us.

I watched a cloud open up, and a suicide bomber disappear in a lick of flames...

it was after the London bombing, there was no trial, no words, just suddenly the ground opened up and one from the crowd disappeared... everyone looked, but no one said a word.

I haven't seen hell, won't experience it, but do I think there could be one... yes

Violet
15th August 2015, 23:49
Earlier this summer I had a conversation with a friend about what you wrote in the first part of your op. It was about how humans as parents (generalising) can put up with quite a bit from their children, even when well advanced in adulthood. Also in school boards, at the end of the school year, teachers will do their utmost best trying to look for as many good things in a student if it can make the difference between pass or fail. But somehow when it's God's turn, and the way some preachers bring it, He can't do it.

And that didn't resonate with me because it would mean that we, humans, have more patience and love than God.

I don't believe that but I must say I also don't know why I expect that human - God/Source comparison to fit 1:1, or approximating. I know the Bible speaks of "in His image", I think the Torah does too, and the Quran I would say, rather dismisses any resemblance. And I don't know what apocrypha or other holy scriptures' stance is on that.

ghostrider
16th August 2015, 00:28
inside the human being is the heavenly realm , the creative realm ...eternal damnation could just be incarnating over and over and NOT learning the lesson you sent here to learn ...

Rocky_Shorz
16th August 2015, 05:12
Nirvana isn't heaven, but is attached to it...

I was working missing children's cases and passed over in my dreams to meet with children, all that wanted to come back did...

Heaven was a retirement center, some lives are just too much for Spirits to want to come back, they cross over and don't return, this isn't a punishment, living on earth is exciting, once everything is perfect, life can get boring, having everything you could ever want or imagine, gets old, the days of struggle is the excitement that brings many of us back again and again...

ps... there is beer in heaven...

you really don't have to come back... ;-)

Rachel
16th August 2015, 06:07
I've often wondered why I would choose to come here, more than once. The best reason I've come up with is that once I was aware of the suffering here, I couldn't leave until it was sorted, that I'm kinda stuck here by virtue of my own awareness. I'm very much like that. I used to prep, store food and water, until I realised that I was never going to be ok with eating while others starved. I'm not here to survive, I'm here to be free, if I can't be free, I don't want to survive. I don't ever want to have to come back. That's the best I can come up with but I'm sure there's more to the story.

mpennery
16th August 2015, 11:13
We all know there is good and bad in this world. The bad seems to stand out more because the controllers like to always focus on it, to keep us in fear, and because of our mortality we spend more time thinking about what can hurt us and end our experience here.
Perhaps following love and light would not be so meaningful in a world where everything was love and light. Perhaps following love and light while surrounded by dark is the purpose? To give us an opportunity to choose, even when it's most difficult. I personally believe this earth could be heaven manifested if only more people made that choice. I have carved out a little slice of heaven here in my wee corner of the world.

Matt

Ron Mauer Sr
16th August 2015, 15:41
I've often wondered why I would choose to come here, more than once. The best reason I've come up with is that once I was aware of the suffering here, I couldn't leave until it was sorted, that I'm kinda stuck here by virtue of my own awareness. I'm very much like that. I used to prep, store food and water, until I realised that I was never going to be ok with eating while others starved. I'm not here to survive, I'm here to be free, if I can't be free, I don't want to survive. I don't ever want to have to come back. That's the best I can come up with but I'm sure there's more to the story.

My goal is simply to feel good, wherever I am. When I am feeling good, I am more clearly connected with Source.

Bubu
16th August 2015, 17:06
As far as I can see, this reality is a form of damnation. Who would choose this place to live if given a better choice?
.

your reality might be damnation but not all people has that reality. who would choose something inferior if there is a better one.

Ron Mauer Sr
16th August 2015, 18:06
As far as I can see, this reality is a form of damnation. Who would choose this place to live if given a better choice?
.

your reality might be damnation but not all people has that reality. who would choose something inferior if there is a better one.

Maybe Richard got it right:

“You seek problems because you need their gifts.”
― Richard Bach (https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/16904.Richard_Bach), Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah (https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/30365)

Violet
16th August 2015, 23:01
As far as I can see, this reality is a form of damnation. Who would choose this place to live if given a better choice?
.

your reality might be damnation but not all people has that reality. who would choose something inferior if there is a better one.

To be of assistance to the inferiors.

Some people see it as dirty work, others see it differently.

Interesting perspective, thanks, Bubu.

Ted
17th August 2015, 00:20
As far as I can see, this reality is a form of damnation. Who would choose this place to live if given a better choice?
.

your reality might be damnation but not all people has that reality. who would choose something inferior if there is a better one.

Maybe Richard got it right:

“You seek problems because you need their gifts.”
― Richard Bach (https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/16904.Richard_Bach), Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah (https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/30365) I must be well gifted then.
No, I think it goes beyond that. This reality has nothing I want. The only thing I want is to go home, and home aint here.

Selkie
17th August 2015, 01:40
The Gnostics would have pretty much agreed with you, Ted.

p.s. The only reason I would want to come back would be for a chance at love. I have never really been loved by anyone close to me, like a husband or a parent, and I would like to know what it is like. Other than that, I see no reason to come back. But I don't believe in re-incarnation, anyway.

East Sun
17th August 2015, 02:18
The Gnostics would have pretty much agreed with you, Ted.

p.s. The only reason I would want to come back would be for a chance at love. I have never really been loved by anyone close to me, like a husband or a parent, and I would like to know what it is like. Other than that, I see no reason to come back. But I don't believe in re-incarnation, anyway.

Selkie,

If you have not read The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying it is a great way to learn about reincarnation. And also has a lot of info. about Buddhism
inc. the Rainbow Body.
ES

Selkie
17th August 2015, 09:40
The Gnostics would have pretty much agreed with you, Ted.

p.s. The only reason I would want to come back would be for a chance at love. I have never really been loved by anyone close to me, like a husband or a parent, and I would like to know what it is like. Other than that, I see no reason to come back. But I don't believe in re-incarnation, anyway.

Selkie,

If you have not read The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying it is a great way to learn about reincarnation. And also has a lot of info. about Buddhism
inc. the Rainbow Body.
ES

I already know about all of that. I don't believe in reincarnation.

Grizz Griswold
17th August 2015, 17:53
As far as I can see, this reality is a form of damnation. Who would choose this place to live if given a better choice?
.

your reality might be damnation but not all people has that reality. who would choose something inferior if there is a better one.

Maybe Richard got it right:

“You seek problems because you need their gifts.”
― Richard Bach (https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/16904.Richard_Bach), Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah (https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/30365)

Hi Ron,
Richard Bach wrote a fine book, one which everyone would benefit from, especially when the world seems
to be pressing tightly. It's good to have the reminder, but then people will believe whatever they want!

Thanks for reminding Me of the book Illusions.

With Love
barry

Soul Surfer
18th August 2015, 14:44
Hi there! Very interesting topic you have put up for discussion! I would not worry too much about eternal damnation, from what I have learned we as souls can actively decide whether or not we want to graduate to higher places after the death of our physical lives. All you have to do is live your life without hate and greed and be a person of integrity and try your best to create a positive impression in everyone you meet and you are groovy man!

PS: If you slap yourself on the wrist for doing something wrong whether it be very bad or just plain bad that you should not have done and later regret this. Wouldn't you do anything to make it right? Just a thought to ponder on in the great scheme of things!

Ron Mauer Sr
18th August 2015, 16:16
Hi there! Very interesting topic you have put up for discussion! I would not worry too much about eternal damnation, from what I have learned we as souls can actively decide whether or not we want to graduate to higher places after the death of our physical lives. All you have to do is live your life without hate and greed and be a person of integrity and try your best to create a positive impression in everyone you meet and you are groovy man!

PS: If you slap yourself on the wrist for doing something wrong whether it be very bad or just plain bad that you should not have done and later regret this. Wouldn't you do anything to make it right? Just a thought to ponder on in the great scheme of things!

In MHO, it is just as important to forgive one's self as it is to forgive another.