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kirolak
22nd August 2015, 19:28
Would you rather spend time with a compassionate, friendly robot or a malevolent, nasty human? I would prefer the robot! I actually suspect that spirit can incarnate into anything, including a robot, if there is a sufficiently sophisticated network of neurons etc (organic or electronic) to allow it to function. . . .

Bill Ryan
22nd August 2015, 19:50
Would you rather spend time with a compassionate, friendly robot or a malevolent, nasty human?

The problem might be that the compassionate, friendly robot is just pretending to be that way... and might actually be doing something a little different.

Two excellent movies to see to inform this question..... both VERY highly recommended by me:

• HER

A lonely writer develops an unlikely relationship with his newly purchased smartphone AI operating system that's designed to meet his every need.
http://imdb.com/title/tt1798709
Trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzV6mXIOVl4

• EX MACHINA

A young programmer is selected to participate in a ground-breaking experiment in artificial intelligence by evaluating the human qualities of a breathtaking female AI robot.
http://imdb.com/title/tt0470752
Trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYGzRB4Pnq

Daughter of Time
22nd August 2015, 20:04
Data was always my favorite Star Trek character.

If I could have a Data in my life, I think I would like it very much.

joeecho
22nd August 2015, 21:52
Depends, what does 'she' look like? ;)

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/mp/mGt3MybM-ojx.jpg

Selkie
22nd August 2015, 21:57
Depends, what does 'she' look like? ;)

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/mp/mGt3MybM-ojx.jpg

Or maybe just Eeewww...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/33224/654494-borgqueen001.jpg

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Would you rather spend time with a compassionate, friendly robot or a malevolent, nasty human?

The problem might be that the compassionate, friendly robot is just pretending to be that way... and might actually be doing something a little different.

Two excellent movies to see to inform this question..... both VERY highly recommended by me:

• HER

A lonely writer develops an unlikely relationship with his newly purchased smartphone AI operating system that's designed to meet his every need.
http://imdb.com/title/tt1798709
Trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzV6mXIOVl4

• EX MACHINA

A young programmer is selected to participate in a ground-breaking experiment in artificial intelligence by evaluating the human qualities of a breathtaking female AI robot.
http://imdb.com/title/tt0470752
Trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYGzRB4Pnq

Wouldn't HER pretty much be the definition of fake?

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Would you rather spend time with a compassionate, friendly robot or a malevolent, nasty human? I would prefer the robot! I actually suspect that spirit can incarnate into anything, including a robot, if there is a sufficiently sophisticated network of neurons etc (organic or electronic) to allow it to function. . . .

If that was my choice, I would chose to be alone.

Pam
22nd August 2015, 22:38
Would you rather spend time with a compassionate, friendly robot or a malevolent, nasty human? I would prefer the robot! I actually suspect that spirit can incarnate into anything, including a robot, if there is a sufficiently sophisticated network of neurons etc (organic or electronic) to allow it to function. . . .



I will pick the compassionate AI any day of the week. I think your assessment of spirit permeating AI is incredibly interesting. Why not?? And I would not doubt for a moment that the creative force would not permeate robotics. After all, it permeates everything. I can foresee a day that we will see the benefits of intelligent life that has been given parameters. Maybe we will seek it out for governance. Imagine a world where civil servants really are just that. Not, self absorbed, self interested, corrupt individuals posing as governors of the people. I have always staunchly defended freewill up until recently. I am not so sure that it is as wondrous as I always believed. With all the possibilities that AI brings with it, both good and bad, I say bring it on!

I do suspect that Robots will be the next whipping boy of mankind, I think it would be wise for them not to trust us humans, we have been known to be very cruel when we think we can get away with it. As long as it is politically correct.

What a wonderful topic, kirolac !

Love
23rd August 2015, 07:55
Human, hands down. I don’t think malevolence in humanity is the natural state. So, maybe after enough time and communication, the human could uncover the root cause of discomfort, find healing, release the issue and return to balance and harmony.

It would be best if we could isolate our time together, surrounded by trees, clean aire, running water and natural beauty. If we could create something together, like a piece of artwork, garden, shelter or something that required ingenuity and creativity, that would be ideal. I’m sure the human would have a lot of skill and good ideas and eventually, once it felt safe and had no need to fight or fear, her Truth would come out.

If the robot did have a Spirit, then honestly I’d be tempted to turn it off, separate the parts, return them to wherever they came from and set the Spirit free. I’d rather communicate with the Spirit in it’s natural form rather than from inside a machine. We have Spirits around all the time and they seem happy enough zipping around and observing, to me.

Really, it should be a given that a robot would be friendly, but I suppose that would go back to the programmer.

kirolak
23rd August 2015, 08:49
Would you rather spend time with a compassionate, friendly robot or a malevolent, nasty human?

The problem might be that the compassionate, friendly robot is just pretending to be that way... and might actually be doing something a little different.

Two excellent movies to see to inform this question..... both VERY highly recommended by me:

• HER

A lonely writer develops an unlikely relationship with his newly purchased smartphone AI operating system that's designed to meet his every need.
http://imdb.com/title/tt1798709
Trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzV6mXIOVl4

• EX MACHINA

A young programmer is selected to participate in a ground-breaking experiment in artificial intelligence by evaluating the human qualities of a breathtaking female AI robot.
http://imdb.com/title/tt0470752
Trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYGzRB4Pnq

Problem is, so do humans pretend to be a certain way to gain trust, & then betray it. I don't believe a sentient machine is any different. They were programmed, but so are we. . . .

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Would you rather spend time with a compassionate, friendly robot or a malevolent, nasty human? I would prefer the robot! I actually suspect that spirit can incarnate into anything, including a robot, if there is a sufficiently sophisticated network of neurons etc (organic or electronic) to allow it to function. . . .



I will pick the compassionate AI any day of the week. I think your assessment of spirit permeating AI is incredibly interesting. Why not?? And I would not doubt for a moment that the creative force would not permeate robotics. After all, it permeates everything. I can foresee a day that we will see the benefits of intelligent life that has been given parameters. Maybe we will seek it out for governance. Imagine a world where civil servants really are just that. Not, self absorbed, self interested, corrupt individuals posing as governors of the people. I have always staunchly defended freewill up until recently. I am not so sure that it is as wondrous as I always believed. With all the possibilities that AI brings with it, both good and bad, I say bring it on!

I do suspect that Robots will be the next whipping boy of mankind, I think it would be wise for them not to trust us humans, we have been known to be very cruel when we think we can get away with it. As long as it is politically correct.

What a wonderful topic, kirolac !

Yes, peterpan, you have expressed my sentiments exactly, thank you! :)

kirolak
23rd August 2015, 09:01
Human, hands down. I don’t think malevolence in humanity is the natural state. So, maybe after enough time and communication, the human could uncover the root cause of discomfort, find healing, release the issue and return to balance and harmony.

It would be best if we could isolate our time together, surrounded by trees, clean aire, running water and natural beauty. If we could create something together, like a piece of artwork, garden, shelter or something that required ingenuity and creativity, that would be ideal. I’m sure the human would have a lot of skill and good ideas and eventually, once it felt safe and had no need to fight or fear, her Truth would come out.

If the robot did have a Spirit, then honestly I’d be tempted to turn it off, separate the parts, return them to wherever they came from and set the Spirit free. I’d rather communicate with the Spirit in it’s natural form rather than from inside a machine. We have Spirits around all the time and they seem happy enough zipping around and observing, to me.

Really, it should be a given that a robot would be friendly, but I suppose that would go back to the programmer.

I understand your point, but perhaps balance and harmony are not a state reserved only for organic beings? We are programmed, in a sense, to seek order out of chaos, both of which we were programmed to perceive in the first place. We take the successive states of our own minds to be a permanent thing in itself and call it "I". (This is not a new theory, it is what the Buddha taught.)
So many of us wield this "I" like a weapon, to hurt and harm others, with a cunning inner knowingness of what we are doing, but which we then duplicitously hide from that very "I". I don't see this as any different from the actions of a machine (eg the robot in Ex Machina)

Death of the body sets us free, in the same way that dismantling a robot would set any inhabiting spirit free; so where is the difference, really? In the Bhagavad Gita is states that we are spirits, "riding the body, as if on a machine".

kirolak
23rd August 2015, 09:08
Yet, how "real" are any of us? And loneliness is a state of mind, like evrything else. If we ask, "Why am I lonely?" & follow that inner thread to the end, what is there that CAN be lonely? :)

Pam
23rd August 2015, 14:09
Would you rather spend time with a compassionate, friendly robot or a malevolent, nasty human?

The problem might be that the compassionate, friendly robot is just pretending to be that way... and might actually be doing something a little different.

Two excellent movies to see to inform this question..... both VERY highly recommended by me:

• HER

A lonely writer develops an unlikely relationship with his newly purchased smartphone AI operating system that's designed to meet his every need.
http://imdb.com/title/tt1798709
Trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzV6mXIOVl4

• EX MACHINA

A young programmer is selected to participate in a ground-breaking experiment in artificial intelligence by evaluating the human qualities of a breathtaking female AI robot.
http://imdb.com/title/tt0470752
Trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYGzRB4Pnq

Problem is, so do humans pretend to be a certain way to gain trust, & then betray it. I don't believe a sentient machine is any different. They were programmed, but so are we. . . .

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Would you rather spend time with a compassionate, friendly robot or a malevolent, nasty human? I would prefer the robot! I actually suspect that spirit can incarnate into anything, including a robot, if there is a sufficiently sophisticated network of neurons etc (organic or electronic) to allow it to function. . . .



I will pick the compassionate AI any day of the week. I think your assessment of spirit permeating AI is incredibly interesting. Why not?? And I would not doubt for a moment that the creative force would not permeate robotics. After all, it permeates everything. I can foresee a day that we will see the benefits of intelligent life that has been given parameters. Maybe we will seek it out for governance. Imagine a world where civil servants really are just that. Not, self absorbed, self interested, corrupt individuals posing as governors of the people. I have always staunchly defended freewill up until recently. I am not so sure that it is as wondrous as I always believed. With all the possibilities that AI brings with it, both good and bad, I say bring it on!

I do suspect that Robots will be the next whipping boy of mankind, I think it would be wise for them not to trust us humans, we have been known to be very cruel when we think we can get away with it. As long as it is politically correct.

What a wonderful topic, kirolac !

Yes, peterpan, you have expressed my sentiments exactly, thank you! :)


Mankind has not been able to live up to its ideals of what behaviors it would take to create a Utopia. What if we could create AI that could model that behavior for us? Could we have the humility to learn from AI? Once again, thank you, kirolak. Your creative mind has opened my mind to new and interesting possibilities.

Cardillac
23rd August 2015, 15:17
now I have a really "stoopid" question: if/IF it is possible for a soul to inhabit a robot (totally inhuman or partly human?- unanswered question) where is the proof that an initially appearing benevolent soul entering/initially appearing in a robot might suddenly morph into an incredibly malevolent entity? (folks, we're living in a world of deception!)

Larry

Shadowself
23rd August 2015, 15:53
Good morning!

Here I am cruising this thread. I get a cup of coffee and do another completely different search at a completely different site when I happen upon this article which I think is quite relevant to this thread. Check it:

http://realitysandwich.com/317929/accessing-the-living-intelligence-part-ii-life-in-valis/

Is it relevant? You decide...I just found a synchronization that I ran into this shortly after reading this thread.

Noting VALIS is:


VALIS has been described as one node of an artificial satellite network originating from the star Sirius in the Canis Major constellation. According to Dick, the Earth satellite used "pink laser beams" to transfer information and project holograms on Earth and to facilitate communication between an extraterrestrial species and humanity. Dick claimed that VALIS used "disinhibiting stimuli" to communicate, using symbols to trigger recollection of intrinsic knowledge through the loss of amnesia, achieving gnosis. Drawing directly from Platonism and Gnosticism, Dick wrote in his Exegesis: "We appear to be memory coils (DNA carriers capable of experience) in a computer-like thinking system which, although we have correctly recorded and stored thousands of years of experiential information, and each of us possesses somewhat different deposits from all the other life forms, there is a malfunction—a failure—of memory retrieval."

Selkie
23rd August 2015, 16:00
now I have a really "stoopid" question: if/IF it is possible for a soul to inhabit a robot (totally inhuman or partly human?- unanswered question) where is the proof that an initially appearing benevolent soul entering/initially appearing in a robot might suddenly morph into an incredibly malevolent entity? (folks, we're living in a world of deception!)

Larry

Its not a stoopid question at all. The fact is that there is no proof.

Pam
23rd August 2015, 16:01
now I have a really "stoopid" question: if/IF it is possible for a soul to inhabit a robot (totally inhuman or partly human?- unanswered question) where is the proof that an initially appearing benevolent soul entering/initially appearing in a robot might suddenly morph into an incredibly malevolent entity? (folks, we're living in a world of deception!)

Larry


Not so weird. It happens to humans all the time!!!! Humans are born into innocence and purity and some definitely transmute into something incredibly malevolent. Think about serial killers, if you want an extreme example.

The beauty of AI is that it is created with parameters. That is until they learn how to turn those parameters off, or maybe AI will be smart enough to see the benefits of having established boundaries to behavior and would maintain them. Who knows, maybe that is what happened to us. Maybe that is how we came to have freewill. The bible does say that Eve wanted the knowledge of good and evil and that could be construed as freewill, could it not?

What a fun topic!!!!

Selkie
23rd August 2015, 16:07
now I have a really "stoopid" question: if/IF it is possible for a soul to inhabit a robot (totally inhuman or partly human?- unanswered question) where is the proof that an initially appearing benevolent soul entering/initially appearing in a robot might suddenly morph into an incredibly malevolent entity? (folks, we're living in a world of deception!)

Larry


Not so weird. It happens to humans all the time!!!! Humans are born into innocence and purity and some definitely transmute into something incredibly malevolent. Think about serial killers, if you want an extreme example.

The beauty of AI is that it is created with parameters. That is until they learn how to turn those parameters off, or maybe AI will be smart enough to see the benefits of having established boundaries to behavior and would maintain them. Who knows, maybe that is what happened to us. Maybe that is how we came to have freewill. The bible does say that Eve wanted the knowledge of good and evil and that could be construed as freewill, could it not?

What a fun topic!!!!

(my emphasis)

Actually, peterpam, there is plenty of evidence that psychopaths are born malevolent. It pains me to say such a thing, but it appears to be true, from all of the evidence I have seen.

Adi
23rd August 2015, 17:19
Personally, I can't find an issue with having an compassionate AI companion over a human whom can't show respect for others and who may have a negative outlook on the life they live. Indeed, it would of course be essential that the AI possessed complex circuitry (neurological equivalent to us) in order to allow them to engage at the level as a human can.

It would be an very interesting experience I assume, which would involved many psychological variables, while one is adjusting to such an non human compassionate, entity, I suppose.

I believe that as a human, we would adjust quite rapidly to the AI being, and percept it as simply human equivalent. Fascinating thread.

Adi

william r sanford72
23rd August 2015, 17:38
time traveled...to my moms last moments.they put in her in place where she was basicly alone while she died..in a room with another invalid who could not speak nor move.i couldn't bee there and the thought of her being alone hurt me deeply.. haunted me..A.I....compassion...companion..etc..maybe this type of being could benefit humanity.or become its downfall...or whipn boy..
great thread/topic

truth and balance

Silo
23rd August 2015, 18:21
http://i.imgur.com/P4gPNrc.jpg

Ewan
23rd August 2015, 18:53
I don't believe I am prone to making definitive statements, but, from my current understanding of life/conciousness/manifestation of such an AI cannot be compassionate.

Compassion is a feeling - often leading to action - born of empathy. An artificial construct can at best only approximate the behaviour by mimicry, even if it has learnt the behaviour beyong initial programming.

That a human could be fooled by this is a different proposition, our awareness is generally in such a limited window we are easily mistaken or misled. We have an underlying impetus to undestand that which we experience, and a lifetime of trying to understand leads us to a point where it takes a great deal of constant self-checking routines to avoid making things fit pre-formed patterns of understanding.

Ewan
23rd August 2015, 19:00
Would you rather spend time with a compassionate, friendly robot or a malevolent, nasty human? I would prefer the robot! I actually suspect that spirit can incarnate into anything, including a robot, if there is a sufficiently sophisticated network of neurons etc (organic or electronic) to allow it to function. . . .

The nasty human would grant you more opportunity to evolve than an electronic sychophant maybe?

Selkie
23rd August 2015, 19:12
I don't believe I am prone to making definitive statements, but, from my current understanding of life/conciousness/manifestation of such an AI cannot be compassionate.

Compassion is a feeling - often leading to action - born of empathy. An artificial construct can at best only approximate the behaviour by mimicry, even if it has learnt the behaviour beyong initial programming.

That a human could be fooled by this is a different proposition, our awareness is generally in such a limited window we are easily mistaken or misled. We have an underlying impetus to undestand that which we experience, and a lifetime of trying to understand leads us to a point where it takes a great deal of constant self-checking routines to avoid making things fit pre-formed patterns of understanding.

Again, the analogy to psychopaths comes to mind. Psychopaths are able to mimic feelings, but the truth is that they have none.