If aliens altered our DNA to make humans, how can religion be real.....

[AMystic3434]

im pretty sure aliens did alter our dna along time ago but I have a hard time believing religion is not real. How can religion be real when aliens altered our dna. How can religion fit in cause im sure some of it is real.

[Jhonie]

You might find this interesting:

Great Minds of Our Time


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmEQmRl1IvE

D.M. Murdock (aka Acharya S) is one of the great scholars of comparative religion and author of five books that explore the evolution of Christianity, the theory of Mythicism, and the latest scholarship of the New Testament. Being an avid reader of history, this is one of the authors I have long admired, so it was an honor to interview her for the very first in this series of interviews I have planned.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with her books, you are in for a treat. No matter what your religious beliefs, you are sure to learn a great deal from listening to someone who has spent decades of researching a subject that has fascinated scholars for all of recorded history.

[DeDukshyn]

Religious texts have been edited to hide such facts. The creation of current humans was way before any religious times (of current religions), and some ancient texts from those times have been carried on and became the basis for current religious texts. Therefore you will find hints of all this scattered through some religious texts.

It seems to me like the "great deluge" that is found not only in religious texts, but also in aboriginal lore, was one and the same as the cataclysm that destroyed an ancient advanced civilization; so the two lines of belief do indeed seem to intersect if you can sift through enough data to find them.

Religion is basically a control structure, that uses ancient texts to give justification to the control put over it's members. They have changed the meanings of most texts to fit this agenda, and detracts from the original texts true meaning or indications of context. It seems to me that the Hindu texts are remnants from one ancient earth civilization (perhaps Mu or Lemuria) and that the Abrahamic religions (Islam, Judaism, Christianity) are based around ancient texts from a different civilization (possibly Atlantis). The ancient Summarian texts are much more aligned with the "humans are hybrid's" theory, and much evidence of DNA tampering can be found in those ancient texts.

So it's not that one idea cannot exist if the other does, there is a whole story in there somewhere, and each religion seems to be based only on parts, from certain perspectives. The translations, editing, interpretations of these texts have rendered most of the meaning into metaphors at best, but if you do look at all the texts only as metaphors for things rather than the literal texts themselves, then suddenly connections can begin to be drawn between the two concepts.

Religion is based on real ancient texts, but the context of those texts is long gone and new meaning has been created for those texts to support the concept of the control mechanism. It doesn't mean that everything a religion tries to promote is wrong, but it is dis-info at best. A good example of this is how the catholic religion says things like "you are weak and need to be forgiven by God's son Jesus", while Jesus said stuff like "If you only had the faith as much as a mustard seed, you can move mountains" and "I am the son of Man" and "The father forgives all" -- notice how the meaning of what Jesus said and what the church says are theopposite. This editing of context is what was required to maintain control. Also consider that in the medieval times, if you were caught reading the bible, you would be beheaded. The reason is they didn't want you to interpret it yourself - you needed to be told what all the passages meant.

So religions are real, but they are not accurate, and if you can broaden your view to have a loose eye and abandon all expected meanings in religious text, you can find some crossover, not much as it has been edited heavily, but you will find some.

Although I haven't read it yet, I hear that the three books of Enoch (generally excluded from religious books) are quite interesting in this regard and show a somewhat different ancient world than the one religion paints for us.

My 2 cents ;)

[Selene]

The ‘escape mechanism/true path’ for all of this has always been – and will always be – that of your own personal inner experience. That of your own inner connection to the larger reality of life. This is the path of higher truth, the path of the mystic.

This is – and has always been – the path of the mystic. The seer. The initiate. The crazy. Yes, even you.

We mystics have existed - disguised and protected - for millennia within the structures of orthodox religions, within their walls, their fears, their laws. We saw more; we knew better. We ignored them and existed within their ‘plain sight’. They never understood why we retreated within our own chambers and high mountains, safe, silent and protected by the orthodoxy of our very potential jailers. We did what we needed to do; they couldn’t prevent our development.

They were afraid of us. They still are. They tried to incorporate us into their system.

That’s over, friends.

We need to speak out now, freely. We need to:

• teach what we know,
• speak what we can,
• bring messages back from our own higher reality,
• live our own truth.
• Most importantly: Live our own truth.

Because we are now at a level beyond only words or websites. We need to work at the level of our own best energies, in person, every day. However/whatever comes next to us in our personal lives. (Yes, that lady ahead of us at the checkout line..)

How do we respond? With our highest capability? Can we give, generously?

Your call.

All best, respect and blessings,

:highfive:


Selene

[Spellbound]

I think religion was put into place as a means to control the masses (and for profit and a means to go to war). I went to a Christian school from grades 2-8 and I had bible study for 3 hours every morning. I questioned things back then but was basically put in my place by the teachers and principal telling me that God created the world and everything/everyone in it in 6 days and it was not my place to question it. As I grew older, I found myself questioning things more and more but never really gave it much thought. Once I discovered Project Camelot many years ago and watched all the interviews, I came to realize there's a LOT out there that we were never taught in school....and the earth and humans are far older than the matrix has led us to believe. I do believe that ET's altered our DNA (many times)....I do believe in the awesomeness of the soul (and infinite lives therein)....and I believe in spirituality much more than I do religion.

Dave - Toronto

[Spellbound]

Good topic, btw!! I've thought about this a lot over the last few years. Part of why I don't think we will have disclosure is because it will bring religion into question. The Roman Catholic church is already trying to get out in front of this issue (imo).

Dave - Toronto

[ghostrider]

the plejaren say , their ancestors came here over 50,000 years ago , a leader named Pelegon along with 200 scientist and 70,000 human beings in a spaceship they took by force fleeing the great war ... their ancestors genetically altered Earth mankind ... Religion was created by man so as not to be responsible for this thoughts , actions , and feelings ... the ancient ET's used religion to enslave the world ...

[Herbert]

Following is an excerpt from one of Chris Thomas' 11 books.

He spent 40 years of his life researching the Akashic records for Earth and from there he learned that WE as non-physical souls genetically engineered the human physical body using a proto-human body template created by the Earth, as a creative soul in her own right.

When we discovered we could not hold the whole soul within our genetically egineered human physical body, we came up with The Human Plan to determine why we were losing our higher psychic functions.

The plan was to divide the soul so that only one quarter was contained in the physical body while the other three quarters remained in the higher dimensions as a guide to the physical self. The former 1000 years per lifetime were reduced to about 100 years in order to implement a knowledge gathering process. The final discovery was made that Earths base note frequency had been too low to support the multi-dimensional soul in a physical body.

With this information we have now reached the end of the human plan. We are now in the process of reintegration of our higher selves to within the physical body.

This requires inner work on our part in the manner of clearing blocked emotional energy flow caused by trauma mostly form childhood. The Giveaway is one method for doing this while the ultimate purpose is to release faulty belief systems from the past, making room for the whole soul and reorganization of the junk DNA into a full 13 strands.

It was us who built the pyramids and the Sphinx using our higher psychic multidimensional functions before we lost them. It was us who built the advanced civilizations with no need for technology.

The following excerpt speaks about the origin of religion.


CHAPTER 4 SPIRITUALITY AND RELIGION THE HUMAN SOUL 2007 BY CHRIS THOMAS


Page 91 Religious practices have their roots 18,000 years ago, in ancient Egypt, with the introduction of “teachers” whose role was to remember, and to teach to others, the “secrets” of how to use the pyramids.

The pyramids were designed and built to be energy enhancers to enable those who were feeling a loss of some of the higher aspects of consciousness and wished to regain them. Such a person would step into the so-called King’s Chamber and, by using certain sound sequences, drew on the immense energies accumulated there. These sound sequences were called “The Keys of Enoch” and the teachers were called “Key Keepers”. These keepers of the keys held the knowledge of the sounds and trained “acolytes” in their use and sequences. These keepers and their students formed the basis of what could be described as the first “secret knowledge” system which ultimately gave rise to religions.

As the peoples, who eventually became the Jewish nation, left Egypt, they took this kind of knowledge with them. This “secret” knowledge became the basis for “Gnostic” (meaning hidden) knowledge and the Kabala.

All of the 6 original resettlement sites trained their own ‘key keepers’.

1.South America,
2.Mesopotamia the area around Sumeria,
3.Egypt,
4.Britain, Ireland and Northern France,
5.Tibet,
6.Southern Greece Volcanic activity destroyed most of this region leaving only scattered islands now

These are the 6 regions of the Earth that were first inhabited by those who returned after the destruction of Atlantis. When we fully adopted The Human Plan, 7,000 years ago, this key-keeping tradition became superfluous and other, more formal, belief structures began to take over.

The key keepers performed a specific role, as did those who had Gnostic knowledge. As we became more human, we began to develop a more physically based system of beliefs. As we became more and more physical, the distance between the Gnostic knowledge and human beliefs became greater and greater.

“Secret” societies began to be formed by those who had been trained in this “hidden” knowledge in order that the knowledge itself be kept safe, for mankind as a whole, and not be destroyed by the priests of the new man-made religions. By keeping this knowledge “safe” it meant that, when mankind was ready, the knowledge would be taught again and mankind, as a whole, could be helped to regain our higher levels of consciousness.

There have been many attempts to disseminate this kind of knowledge to humanity but each time the teachers have achieved only limited success. Jesus the Christ, Mohammed, Lao Tse, The Buddha, etc. all chose to live a lifetime where they could become teachers. The purpose of their famous life was to obtain this “higher” knowledge either by means of learning from others or my making use of meditation-type practices that allowed them to access their higher selves and the akashic to “download” this kind of “secret” information. In all cases, they were only partially successful.

By the time those great teachers came along, the more human forms of belief structures had taken full hold and the messages that these teachers tried to impart were either totally lost or have been so distorted over time, by others, as to have lost their original meanings. The one who has suffered most from this type of censorship and distortion was Jesus the Christ. The more I have investigated his situation, either through the Akashic or through writings of historical researchers, the more it is plain that the message he came here to deliver has been distorted and, largely, destroyed.

[Bubu]

Religion is real it was created by those who want to enslave the masses which means they faked it to fool us. No different than wrapping a hook with a worm so the fish wont notice, as in, you're having a hard time believing religion is not real.

[Selkie]

I think the religious impulse in man is certainly genuine, and natural to our species, but it was hijacked long ago by that which John Keel calls the Ultraterrestrials, who gave us belief systems that are detrimental to us, to further an agenda of their own.

I do not think that the Ultraterrestrials altered our DNA, although I think they would like us to believe that they did.

[abmqa]

Hi Jhonie

not sure if you are aware, but D M. Murdock is suffering from cancer and needs help... like you, i have admired her for many years....

https://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/lsn9/d-m-murdock-acharya-s-s-breast-cancer-fundraiser?utm_source=giveforward&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=supporter_email&email=abmqa@msn.com&hid=9096842&cid=5865059

[bogeyman]

im pretty sure aliens did alter our dna along time ago but I have a hard time believing religion is not real. How can religion be real when aliens altered our dna. How can religion fit in cause im sure some of it is real.


Religion is a sociological phenomena unique to here, no religion is correct.

[Jhonie]

Hi Jhonie

not sure if you are aware, but D M. Murdock is suffering from cancer and needs help... like you, i have admired her for many years....

https://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/lsn9/d-m-murdock-acharya-s-s-breast-cancer-fundraiser?utm_source=giveforward&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=supporter_email&email=abmqa@msn.com&hid=9096842&cid=5865059

Yes, I am aware. Thank you for bringing that up.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?84042-DM-Murdock-aka-Achayra-S.&p=995837#post995837

[Rhah]

I have personally come to believe, after everything that I've read so far, that the religious doctrine simply isn't real, but was put into place mainly to serve as a population control mechanism. However, I am convinced that there's a lot of truth hidden in the Bible. In most cases it has just been falsely interpreted for the wrong purposes.

That doesn't mean, however, that being religious is always a bad thing. Different people approach spirituality in different ways, and everyone has to find their own path. If religion is what works for you in finding spirituality than by all means continue on this path. Though it is important to distinguish the difference between spirituality and religion. Some people are religious without being spiritual, and others are spiritual without being religious. Nonetheless, I think it's the spirituality that ultimately really matters. And unfortunately religious dogma can be a terrible barrier to spirituality.

[Avuso]

im pretty sure aliens did alter our dna along time ago but I have a hard time believing religion is not real. How can religion be real when aliens altered our dna. How can religion fit in cause im sure some of it is real.

Yes, human DNA has definitely been manipulated by ETs, for better at times but perhaps mostly for worse. This has exaggerated the human capacity and tendency to react in fear, for example, and the physical body/mind does affects how our soul is expressed. However, it doesn't change our soul itself and the experience of being human at this time is what we chose to experience for our own growth and is an adequate vehicle for that.

We are here to learn love, compassion and wisdom, and can do that with or without the example of the historical prophets, their teachings and the traditions that have preserved some portion of their truth. Religious teachings are reflections of the truth, distorted by intent or accident to one degree or another, and always limited by language itself. The practices and teachings can be helpful though. Just take one line, "treat your brother as yourself," apply it in your life and things begin to change for the better.

When in doubt, let the quality of your experience guide you. Does doing x or believing y make me and the others around me happier? Am I invigorated or left feeling a helpless victim?

[Feritciva]

As Bubu says, this is worm wrapped hook. And yes, it IS worm! Rotten, smelly, dark. I don't believe religious impulse is natural. This is one of the worst programs that is installed to human beings.

Although everyone may have a different path, organised religion path is "road to nowhere" as Talking Heads once said. :)

AWtCittJyr0

[Selkie]

As Bubu says, this is worm wrapped hook. And yes, it IS worm! Rotten, smelly, dark. I don't believe religious impulse is natural. This is one of the worst programs that is installed to human beings.

Although everyone may have a different path, organised religion path is "road to nowhere" as Talking Heads once said. :)

AWtCittJyr0

This is what I mean by the religious impulse,


I want to make clear that by the term “religion” I do not mean a creed. It is, however, true that every creed is originally based on the one hand upon the experience of the numinosum and on the other hand upon pistis, that is to say, trust or loyalty, faith and confidence in a certain experience of a numinous nature and in the change of consciousness that ensues…We might say, then, that the term “religion” designates the attitude peculiar to a consciousness which has been changed by experience of the numinosum.
Jung (1937)[1]

http://jungiancenter.org/essay/religious-impulse-human-being-jung-religion-spirituality-and-life-worth-living

(my emphasis)

I certainly do not mean belief in a creed. Rather, by the religious impulse, I mean the desire and drive to contact the Divine...to live in contact with the Divine...which I think is wholly natural to man, even if it has been hijacked by the unscrupulous for their own agendas.

Lurv that song, though! :)

[Carmody]

Trust and faith are words that arise from a child-like state of mental positioning and mental being.

A state where the lock is on the door, a lock is on the real mechanism that underlies being.

The circular lock and block arises from the lack of realization that the voice in the head is a past tense reporting echo system and is not the self. That this past tense passive report echo repeat child thing is the ego.

This is why I keep listing the article as people FORGET. (http://singularityhub.com/2015/08/02/think-your-conscious-brain-directs-your-actions-think-again/)

They forget as their ego system inserts an insistent gentle push that is as constant as gravity, to PUSH this away from your analysis. So you don't get past this child stage of not realizing that the ego and voice in the head is not YOU, it's just a biological program.

The closer you get to understanding it, the more the body freaks out, the more it pushes you way from it, the more insane and unreal the world seems to get.

Faith and trust are ego control, ego blocking -ego fundamentals. They are part of the animal response system and have no place in a thinking, living, functional being who is evolving past their ego training wheels.

[Selkie]

Trust and faith are words that arise from a child-like state of mental positioning and mental being.

A state where the lock is on the door, a lock is on the real mechanism that underlies being.

The circular lock and block arises from the lack of realization that the voice in the head is a past tense reporting echo system and is not the self. That this past tense passive report echo repeat child thing is the ego.

This is why I keep listing the article as people FORGET. (http://singularityhub.com/2015/08/02/think-your-conscious-brain-directs-your-actions-think-again/)

They forget as their ego system inserts an insistent gentle push that is as constant as gravity, to PUSH this away from your analysis. So you don't get past this child stage of not realizing that the ego and voice in the head is not YOU, it's just a biological program.

The closer you get to understanding it, the more the body freaks out, the more it pushes you way from it, the more insane and unreal the world seems to get.

Faith and trust are ego control, ego blocking -ego fundamentals. They are part of the animal response system and have no place in a thinking, living, functional being who is evolving past their ego training wheels.

Jung is talking about faith and trust in one's own experience of the Divine, not faith and trust in authority.


...trust or loyalty, faith and confidence in a certain experience of a numinous nature and in the change of consciousness that ensues. Jung.

[Alpha141]

My attitude relative to those i operate with might offer something else to consider.

1) For me the individuals journey into a greater awareness i consider sacred. For, there are practically infinite ways and paths. Religious texts like many suggest would not be able to gain such a place and hold on our collective unless there were truths within them. My attitude from the little i have explored (as i have had very minimal exploration) is that it is more of a metaphoric inner journey that a good portion is about. Like for instance. The valley of death relates to the shadow self. Judge not less ye be judged. This to me is about the external being a reflection of where you are at if you have the courage to observe your emotion being the guide. So...if i have a invalid attitude to anything anyone individually does i may corrupt their journey and what does it reflect to me?

2) Hierarchical institutions on the other hand. For me their validness has little place going forth. Political structures that have gained their position via the elimination of competition. Over millennia. To instill a belief system that offers it a place over humanity. Elimination of Indigenous cultures over much of the globe. Building temples over sacred energy sites and eradicating the energy consciousness level of regions so their domination can be gained. Burning of information centers containing public accessible wisdom from existence like the Library of Alexandrina etc. There were entire systems of education wiped from the Earth (Druidic college systems as Micheal Tsarion goes in to epic detail). I have heard Andrew Bartzis discuss how humanity were put back 10000yrs because of this episode for example. Such bodies entire history collectively should and used measure of their worth. Not the result of where they gained. For myself. I choose to SELF Govern. By being the best, most responsible. Authentic and live my Truth I can. Never impinge on another. Respect and have my own boundaries respected. I don't aim for perfection. Just be the best i can be in any moment with a constant aim to improve etc. I do not seek to be ruled or governed. I am grateful for structures to be in place that do offer a simpler journey. What another does etc. It is up to them. If we all choose to be as responsible as we can I feel such structures are needed less and less.

3) Now, the DNA thing. This might be something to really go deep on. Just entertain it as a possibility. The language that someone or something altered us to impose some limit on us I myself don't really allow. But the reality in which we find ourselves as a whole for me is limited. It has been limited by an incarnation war. If you are across Delores Cannon for example. She discusses (in very simple language) that there was a call put out for souls to aid Earth now. If you really consider that most western religious belief systems do not entertain the incarnation / re-incarnation possibility then this year 1 level of concept won't enable the year 7 or 8 concept of an incarnation war be entertained. Very very convenient. Because if you want to dominate and control consciousness eliminate how we got into this place of power.

So if we cut to the chase about our DNA with that offered. Then of the millions or billions of incarnated spiritual beings having the human experience on Earth. Are potentially limited in their consciousness potential. Many many flat our denied access here. Then the overall consciousness level is where the money is at. That collective level (say in the 3 Lemuria times was & dimensional, gradually lowering over a very long time to this 3d now - Andrew Bartzis goes into enormous detail of the 3 Lemuria and Atlantian eras) by that very nature the potential that is within our skin suits HAS everything there awaiting the overall level to pick up for it to receive activations and turning on. This is why the food, water, pharma, terrorism, Religion, money systems, governments etc are all there to impinge on this. The key is to being open to the possibility. As, offering us that we have been limited by some outside power who we are all victims of and have zero means to overcome. To me it is a big red flag by anyone saying such stuff. It is creating an avenue to Victim-hood. Which is a powerful self limiting state to be in and is an invite (like allowing a vampire metaphor into the house or body temple) to limitation. I mean no offense. But, i constantly witness powerful individuals that once they get over the Negative-Placebo of co-creating the reality they occupy and realise the dormant power within. Gaining self work. Perhaps having the courage to seek a shaman healer also to awaken themselves. This transmitting from a negative state into a powerful on is just waiting to be accessed in everyone right now. Such things you soon become aware of are just belief programs to create limits within us. We are all powerful co-creating manifesting beings. Trauma, lack, illness triggers are there to be overcome. Via changing one's life Not integrated and suppressed by societal mechanisms or structures who gain nourishment by needing you entertaining self imposed limiting concepts.

Really consider this. They are instances where powerful beings are here. Maybe not so many. But if a measurement of time is considered then the rate of this is increasing. The other fact. Maybe of us are being 'triggered'. An even occurs which for many i offer is very traumatic. This has an attribute to make us feel uncomfortable. That state makes us seek for a solution. That seeking and becoming a Conscious Explorer from an individual perspective really in them increases their awareness. If a proactive shaman / energy healing path is explored and those traumatic events are overcome etc. Then by that very nature the event was there to reveal their dormant intuitive potential. So, i am sure you are all aware that this is occurring more and more. I am sure most of you all just by your very instinct to find this place. Bill's work. Project Camelot. A Google search. Choosing to be better to yourself. Your fellow man etc. You individually might be an energy anchor for your local reality / region's consciousness. You by that intent are a powerful drop in the collective for us all. Sending ripples etc. So if we all individually choose the best action in any situation even if in that instance it means it might not be the best for us at that moment. Then that is co-creating a better reality. It might be a rite of passage for you that by that act activates some dormant attribute within your own DNA. As having power requires a responsibility aspect. Like, you earn it sort of thing via proof of actions / intent.

I have written far too much here so if you get through all that I commend you. But, i also hope you really contemplate this. The only ones that really have the power to limit us are ourselves. A great portion by their very nature have created great self imposed limits. But by entertaining beliefs, information, perspectives plus an upbringing in this reality. There is no human handbook too. What are we individually creating for ourselves. Limit? Or possibility. I sense enormous potential just waiting to be tapped. I see the alchemical aspects of a failing external worth system like finance offering an enormous catalyst for Inner Self worth to trigger this soon.

Thanks for reading. Best of luck all.

[Selkie]

Trust and faith are words that arise from a child-like state of mental positioning and mental being.

A state where the lock is on the door, a lock is on the real mechanism that underlies being.

The circular lock and block arises from the lack of realization that the voice in the head is a past tense reporting echo system and is not the self. That this past tense passive report echo repeat child thing is the ego.

This is why I keep listing the article as people FORGET. (http://singularityhub.com/2015/08/02/think-your-conscious-brain-directs-your-actions-think-again/)

They forget as their ego system inserts an insistent gentle push that is as constant as gravity, to PUSH this away from your analysis. So you don't get past this child stage of not realizing that the ego and voice in the head is not YOU, it's just a biological program.

The closer you get to understanding it, the more the body freaks out, the more it pushes you way from it, the more insane and unreal the world seems to get.

Faith and trust are ego control, ego blocking -ego fundamentals. They are part of the animal response system and have no place in a thinking, living, functional being who is evolving past their ego training wheels.

Actually, there are people who have no animal responses, and we have a name for them. We call them psychopaths.

[Pam]

The spirit that animates us is unalterable, it permeates everything. Whether the vehicle that we experience consciousness has been altered or not does not matter to consciousness. All that it means is that this experience may manifest differently if we now have limitations that we would not have had before being altered or vise versa. So I don't see that altered DNA would exempt us from connection with the consciousness that permeates everything.

Religion is a man made construct and has been altered over time for control purposes. So is religion real???? I guess if it works for you, then it is real. If you use it for other reasons, it won't.

I think within our matrix of reality, all things are possible. Does God exist???? If you believe it, then God exists for you.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

A number of very good responses have covered every angle as far as my beliefs are concerned. Hats off to DeDukshyn in Post 3 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85013-If-aliens-altered-our-DNA-to-make-humans-how-can-religion-be-real.....&p=995754&viewfull=1#post995754), it pretty much sums it up. I would add, however, that though there are many religions, and many types of religion, religion originally came in two fundamental forms.

1. As teachings brought to Earth by advanced souls incarnating from higher realms, eg Jesus. His very simple message being love, compassion and service to others. Also that the Human soul is Divine and immortal; there is a God - a Creator, and Creation has a Plan.

2. As a form of guidance, possibly well-meaning guidance, from extra-terrestrials monitoring the 'human experiment'.

Both types came together to form one overarching type of religion, controlled by man, maintained by man, and subverted by man as a method of control, bondage, and mental/spiritual subjugation. And as a crucible in which war might be kindled. It may well be that those controlling ‘men’ were themselves controlled by some other coercive force. The darker side of ET reality.

To the informed and intelligent, who can cut through the dark curtain of meaningless dogma and doctrine, the original, undiluted messages of truth can still be found.

[Selkie]

...To the informed and intelligent, who can cut through the dark curtain of meaningless dogma and doctrine, the original, undiluted messages of truth can still be found.

I agree. And for people who feel the need for organized religion in their lives, who is anyone to look down on them? It is how people behave that counts, not what they believe.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

I agree. And for people who feel the need for organized religion in their lives, who is anyone to look down on them? It is how people behave that counts, not what they believe.

Absolutely. But sitting in church performing rituals and reciting old passages has no meaning in themselves. Asking forgiveness for a sin does not abolish the sin. Religion is fine as long one forgets all the empty detritus that goes with it. Of most importance is taking its positive messages to heart, and then applying those messages in daily life.

[Selkie]

I agree. And for people who feel the need for organized religion in their lives, who is anyone to look down on them? It is how people behave that counts, not what they believe.

Absolutely. And sitting in church performing rituals and reciting old passages has no meaning in of themselves. Asking forgiveness for a sin does not abolish the sin. Religion is fine as long one forgets all the empty detritus that goes with it. Of most importance is taking its positive messages to heart, and then applying those messages in daily life.

Yes, and people who want to behave badly will find a pretext for doing so. Sometimes that pretext will be religion. Sometimes it will be science. Anything can be used as a pretext for bad behavior.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Yes, and people who want to behave badly will find a pretext for doing so...

That is religion's most critical failure.

Karma, for instance. It is a Universal truth (in my personal belief, or rather knowledge - some may disagree and that's fine).

It's the immutable, inescapable law of cause and effect, of action having an equal and opposite reaction. it's the same in spirit as it is in matter. So above, so below.

If the fundamental truth of this perfect law was the order of the day across planet Earth, and forget just 'believing it' - if everyone knew that truth in their hearts and souls - then no one would 'want to behave badly' at all.

[ulli]

Here is a thread started by Carmody in 2011 about the inner monkey.
And a reply from me.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?26670-Breaking-Dogmatism-Realizing-your-inner-monkey&p=274741&viewfull=1#post274741

[Pam]

I agree. And for people who feel the need for organized religion in their lives, who is anyone to look down on them? It is how people behave that counts, not what they believe.

Absolutely. And sitting in church performing rituals and reciting old passages has no meaning in of themselves. Asking forgiveness for a sin does not abolish the sin. Religion is fine as long one forgets all the empty detritus that goes with it. Of most importance is taking its positive messages to heart, and then applying those messages in daily life.

Yes, and people who want to behave badly will find a pretext for doing so. Sometimes that pretext will be religion. Sometimes it will be science. Anything can be used as a pretext for bad behavior.


There is so much truth in what you say here, Selki and Star Mariner. I have seen people pull out and utilize great and beautiful truth that has changed their lives and bettered the world from what I consider to be some of the weakest and most corrupted of religious doctrine. Also, I have seen people presented with wonderful universal truths that didn't mean a thing to them. I guess, we will do what we will do and can twist and distort any messages to support our actions. How many serial killers have their been that killed prostitutes believing they are doing gods work to clean up the planet? They walk away from murder with the spirit of self righteousness. Go figure....

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Thanks Ulli, that's a very good analogy, following up Carmody's excellent post. Whereas it explains very clearly the inner workings of human psycology, what drives us, what steers us, etc, we might consider one other element, with regards to this thread on religion:



So here we have 4 elements, and each one corresponds to an inner meaning.

The passenger (soul of man)
The coachman, (man's intellect)
The horse, (man's emotions)
The carriage (man's body)
The journey is the passage through life.


A 5th element, and that is the quality of the paved surface on which the carriage rolls.

Without dogma, the road runs straight and smooth. But I feel religion steered the cart off that road long ago, onto a rough, rutted verge. The carriage is shaking, bouncing, and close to falling apart. The coachman no longer has control of the reins (Source), that connects him to the horse, and can do nothing. The horse has plenty to distract it so doesn't even know or care it's off course. The passenger is fast asleep dreaming pleasant dreams.

[grannyfranny100]

I have never had much patience with the door to door Christians and the ones that tried to sell me stuff for my store with a Christian business card. Far as I am concerned, their religious exemption from taxes should be disallowed. Let their actions speak for them and stop trying to jam their stuff down people's throats

[ulli]

Thanks Ulli, that's a very good analogy, following up Carmody's excellent post. Whereas it explains very clearly the inner workings of human psycology, what drives us, what steers us, etc, we might consider one other element, with regards to this thread on religion:



So here we have 4 elements, and each one corresponds to an inner meaning.

The passenger (soul of man)
The coachman, (man's intellect)
The horse, (man's emotions)
The carriage (man's body)
The journey is the passage through life.


A 5th element, and that is the quality of the paved surface on which the carriage rolls.

Without dogma, the road runs straight and smooth. But I feel religion steered the cart off that road long ago, onto a rough, rutted verge. The carriage is shaking, bouncing, and close to falling apart. The coachman no longer has control of the reins (Source), that connects him to the horse, and can do nothing. The horse has plenty to distract it so doesn't even know or care it's off course. The passenger is fast asleep dreaming pleasant dreams.

Thank you for picking up the analogy ball and running with it.
In my view the passenger (incarnated soul) is awake but totally helpless.
Furthermore, quasi invisible inside that carriage, which the coachman has not bothered to keep in a good state of maintenance.
The main strength of the whole vehicle is in the horse,( emotional body) and is greater than that of the coachman,
but also he is in charge of feeding it and often fails at that job as well.

The road then, which you called the fifth element, would be the collective religious and political systems, and it is full of potholes, like you suggested.

[Selkie]

Thanks Ulli, that's a very good analogy, following up Carmody's excellent post. Whereas it explains very clearly the inner workings of human psycology, what drives us, what steers us, etc, we might consider one other element, with regards to this thread on religion:



So here we have 4 elements, and each one corresponds to an inner meaning.

The passenger (soul of man)
The coachman, (man's intellect)
The horse, (man's emotions)
The carriage (man's body)
The journey is the passage through life.


A 5th element, and that is the quality of the paved surface on which the carriage rolls.

Without dogma, the road runs straight and smooth. But I feel religion steered the cart off that road long ago, onto a rough, rutted verge. The carriage is shaking, bouncing, and close to falling apart. The coachman no longer has control of the reins (Source), that connects him to the horse, and can do nothing. The horse has plenty to distract it so doesn't even know or care it's off course. The passenger is fast asleep dreaming pleasant dreams.

Thank you for picking up the analogy ball and running with it.
In my view the passenger (incarnated soul) is awake but totally helpless.
Furthermore, quasi invisible inside that carriage, which the coachman has not bothered to keep in a good state of maintenance.
The main strength of the whole vehicle is in the horse,( emotional body) and is greater than that of the coachman,
but also he is in charge of feeding it and often fails at that job as well.

The road then, which you called the fifth element, would be the collective religious and political systems, and it is full of potholes, like you suggested.

It would be better if the passenger just got on the horse and learned how to ride it skillfully (and bare-back at that), rather than muck around with all the to-do of carriage and coachman.

[ulli]

...




So here we have 4 elements, and each one corresponds to an inner meaning.

The passenger (soul of man)
The coachman, (man's intellect)
The horse, (man's emotions)
The carriage (man's body)
The journey is the passage through life.

...
It would be better if the passenger just got on the horse and learned how to ride it skillfully (and bare-back at that), rather than muck around with all the to-do of carriage and coachman.

That would leave him without the body, or the intellect.
The analogy was created to show the line of command between the different centers with which a human functions.
So it was meant to show how they need to relate to one another.
The passenger is the reason the horse, carriage and coachman exists in the first place, to help him make his journey through life.

[Selkie]

That would leave him without the body, or the intellect.
The analogy was created to show the line of command between the different centers with which a human functions.
So it was meant to show how they need to relate to one another.
The passenger is the reason the horse, carriage and coachman exists in the first place, to help him make his journey through life.

I see what you mean, Ulli.

p.s. Just a thought, but the separation of the wholeness of man into "intellect", "body", "emotions", "soul", etc., seems to be a necessary consequence of the process or collective maturation. A collective effort of our power of discrimination, if you will.

Would the Greeks have built the Parthenon without that separation? Would Beethoven have written the Late Quartets without it? Because all high art and culture seems to be the consequence of the drive to get back to the natural state of non-discrimination through the power of separation...through the power of discrimination, in other words!

So if we regain that undivided wholeness somehow, which just about everyone seems to want to do, would we lose our ability to produce anything much in the way of high art and culture?

Considering how art has devolved into not much more than the smearings of the drug-addled and the politically motivated, I have to wonder.

:focus: (I am referring to myself)

[Old Wolf]

im pretty sure aliens did alter our dna along time ago but I have a hard time believing religion is not real. How can religion be real when aliens altered our dna. How can religion fit in cause im sure some of it is real.

Just because parts of religion are real, it doesn't mean that everything about religion is true. The real lie isn't religion it's absolute belief. Know your own mind rather than accepting what someone else tells you to believe. Discernment is key.

Kindly.

[Selkie]

As a kind of post-script, religions, like them or not, sponsored/produced some of the most magnificent art the world has ever seen.

As just two examples,

http://newshour-tc.pbs.org/newshour/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/163397448.jpg

https://caelumetterra.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/nroseb-aug07-d8454sar900.jpg

[ulli]

That would leave him without the body, or the intellect.
The analogy was created to show the line of command between the different centers with which a human functions.
So it was meant to show how they need to relate to one another.
The passenger is the reason the horse, carriage and coachman exists in the first place, to help him make his journey through life.

I see what you mean, Ulli.

p.s. Just a thought, but the separation of the wholeness of man into "intellect", "body", "emotions", "soul", etc., seems to be a necessary consequence of the process or collective maturation. A collective effort of our power of discrimination, if you will.

Would the Greeks have built the Parthenon without that separation? Would Beethoven have written the Late Quartets without it? Because all high art and culture seems to be the consequence of the drive to get back to the natural state of non-discrimination through the power of separation...through the power of discrimination, in other words!

So if we regain that undivided wholeness somehow, which just about everyone seems to want to do, would we lose our ability to produce anything much in the way of high art and culture?

Considering how art has devolved into not much more than the smearings of the drug-addled and the politically motivated, I have to wonder.

:focus: (I am referring to myself)

I think about this quite often. It is about reconciliation of layers, isn't it.
One can behold a tree, without thinking about the leaves. And one can behold the leaves, things, branches, trunk and root system and get so lost in them that one can no longer behold the tree and its fruit-bearing capabilities.

This trick is to leave out nothing. Get away from an "either / or" type of mindset, and think inclusively.
Parts can then be seen in the context of wholeness, and time flow with its inclusion of consequence.

[Selkie]

I think about this quite often. It is about reconciliation of layers, isn't it.
One can behold a tree, without thinking about the leaves. And one can behold the leaves, things, branches, trunk and root system and get so lost in them that one can no longer behold the tree and its fruit-bearing capabilities.

This trick is to leave out nothing. Get away from an "either / or" type of mindset, and think inclusively.
Parts can then be seen in the context of wholeness, and time flow with its inclusion of consequence.

I see the "either/or" mindset as being more productive than the mind-set of the all-inclusive. Simply to get anything done, or to produce anything at all, one must choose this over that.

[ThePythonicCow]

I think about this quite often. It is about reconciliation of layers, isn't it.
One can behold a tree, without thinking about the leaves. And one can behold the leaves, things, branches, trunk and root system and get so lost in them that one can no longer behold the tree and its fruit-bearing capabilities.

This trick is to leave out nothing. Get away from an "either / or" type of mindset, and think inclusively.
Parts can then be seen in the context of wholeness, and time flow with its inclusion of consequence.

I see the "either/or" mindset as being more productive than the mind-set of the all-inclusive. Simply to get anything done, or to produce anything at all, one must choose this over that.

I find both ways of thinking useful, the more intuitive, multi-layered, broad spectrum, and the more technical, narrowly disciplined and focused. The best work requires both inclusive vision and discriminating technique.

[Selkie]

I think about this quite often. It is about reconciliation of layers, isn't it.
One can behold a tree, without thinking about the leaves. And one can behold the leaves, things, branches, trunk and root system and get so lost in them that one can no longer behold the tree and its fruit-bearing capabilities.

This trick is to leave out nothing. Get away from an "either / or" type of mindset, and think inclusively.
Parts can then be seen in the context of wholeness, and time flow with its inclusion of consequence.

I see the "either/or" mindset as being more productive than the mind-set of the all-inclusive. Simply to get anything done, or to produce anything at all, one must choose this over that.

I find both ways of thinking useful, the more intuitive, multi-layered, broad spectrum, and the more technical, narrowly disciplined and focused. The best work requires both inclusive vision and discriminating technique.

Oh, for sure.

One of the problems I have is that there are so many things I want to paint (for instance) that I have a hard time choosing which one I want to do now. That overwhelming abundance of choices tends to paralyze me, and one of the most difficult things I have to do is to eliminate some choices in favor of others. So I have to let some things go, knowing that I may never get to them, and that is very difficult for me. I feel it as a real loss, the paintings I have in my head, which I know I will never paint. But I have to do it, otherwise I would never paint anything at all.

Sorry this is so off-topic :silent:

[ulli]

I think about this quite often. It is about reconciliation of layers, isn't it.
One can behold a tree, without thinking about the leaves. And one can behold the leaves, things, branches, trunk and root system and get so lost in them that one can no longer behold the tree and its fruit-bearing capabilities.

This trick is to leave out nothing. Get away from an "either / or" type of mindset, and think inclusively.
Parts can then be seen in the context of wholeness, and time flow with its inclusion of consequence.

I see the "either/or" mindset as being more productive than the mind-set of the all-inclusive. Simply to get anything done, or to produce anything at all, one must choose this over that.

Ah, but then not every moment demands that we be productive. Life is about rhythm- work, play, rest.

[Selkie]

I think about this quite often. It is about reconciliation of layers, isn't it.
One can behold a tree, without thinking about the leaves. And one can behold the leaves, things, branches, trunk and root system and get so lost in them that one can no longer behold the tree and its fruit-bearing capabilities.

This trick is to leave out nothing. Get away from an "either / or" type of mindset, and think inclusively.
Parts can then be seen in the context of wholeness, and time flow with its inclusion of consequence.

I see the "either/or" mindset as being more productive than the mind-set of the all-inclusive. Simply to get anything done, or to produce anything at all, one must choose this over that.

Ah, but then not every moment demands that we be productive. Life is about rhythm- work, play, rest.

Well, one has to choose to rest, or not, so its still a matter of this or that.

[Lost N Found]

I think about this quite often. It is about reconciliation of layers, isn't it.
One can behold a tree, without thinking about the leaves. And one can behold the leaves, things, branches, trunk and root system and get so lost in them that one can no longer behold the tree and its fruit-bearing capabilities.

This trick is to leave out nothing. Get away from an "either / or" type of mindset, and think inclusively.
Parts can then be seen in the context of wholeness, and time flow with its inclusion of consequence.

I see the "either/or" mindset as being more productive than the mind-set of the all-inclusive. Simply to get anything done, or to produce anything at all, one must choose this over that.

I find both ways of thinking useful, the more intuitive, multi-layered, broad spectrum, and the more technical, narrowly disciplined and focused. The best work requires both inclusive vision and discriminating technique.

Oh, for sure.

One of the problems I have is that there are so many things I want to paint (for instance) that I have a hard time choosing which one I want to do now. That overwhelming abundance of choices tends to paralyze me, and one of the most difficult things I have to do is to eliminate some choices in favor of others. So I have to let some things go, knowing that I may never get to them, and that is very difficult for me. I feel it as a real loss, the paintings I have in my head, which I know I will never paint. But I have to do it, otherwise I would never paint anything at all.

Sorry this is so off-topic :silent:

Thank you very much for this Selkie, Your artistic value is so needed here.

First thing into this thread, I do not see or even understand how Aliens altered our DNA or even created humans. Their is no irrefutable evidence of this as well as anything else. Were any of them even their to witness something of this nature? All we seem to have is someone writing a hypothesis in some books to try to make money. Oh I am sure they provide ancient this and that and some made up science to make the books look real or some such, but it all comes down to what or how many folks today will believe enough to buy those stories and then spread that belief to others. After all is that not how this stuff gets spread around. Find those folks that write this stuff and ask direct questions to them. I am sure you would get a whole host of "here is the proof crap" but then again how do they really know?

Now into the religion, Have we all not been told and brainwashed all of lives about the Bible and the belief in God? So what do we finally and really believe in? I see alot in this thread that is very thoughtful of this. Now I say this, I have read and researched so much on this notion of Alien DNA and Creation of Humans and I have come across this thought in all of this, These Aliens cannot feel the way we do, They have no soul to guide them, So this tells me that the theory is has something wrong with it. After all we have been taught from birth about the Soul and the Spirit and Heaven and all the other stuff that goes with it. Not to say that this is just the same as the Alien DNA stuff. But, I don't remember being taught any of that until just recently in my life and I am older than dirt.

Selkie, as for Art and painting. you have shown that Art is and has been a great something in mankind through out the centuries. Leonardo Divinci or how ever his last name is spelled created so many wonderful works of Art and invented so many machines and other things it is a wonder that he could have been a created alien but who really knows other himself..

As for you painting and wanting to paint so much but never getting to it. I have had that experience in my life. I always came to this, what filled my mind, heart and soul is what came out on the canvas or drawings or sculpture and that is what I accepted and threw everything of my essence into. I really think that is what happened with Leonardo or any other great artist that came forth in our world. Just a short shot of feeling about art. I feel you have that inside of you and it will and has come forth from you.

Thank you.

[Old Wolf]

Their is no irrefutable evidence of this as well as anything else. Were any of them even their to witness something of this nature?

I have memories from a past life regarding this. I didn't witness the changes but did witness the outcome. I've never read any books about it and offer this post for free ;) And you're definitely right, there's no irrefutable evidence of it nor are my memories any sort of proof. The same can be said for religious beliefs, someone writing it in a book doesn't make it any more true and there's no irrefutable evidence.

Having said all of that, it doesn't matter. It's not significant to who we are today, what sort of genetic make up we are because .. we simply are. There's no turning back the clock. We are who we are and resisting some notion because it doesn't fit into our beliefs isn't constructive. We need to face the particular challenges of our lives and what we believe could be what's stopping us from progressing.

Creation is the very core of our being and creating (like Selkie is expressing) is a powerful and self rectifying activity. Create your own mythos, it's no less valid because it's followers are only 1.

Kindly

[Alien Ramone]

I view religions as interpretations of many things that happened along with the manipulation for control that many here have mentioned. In Christian religions for example, from what I've read online, Abraham of the Bible is thought to have possibly come from the Akkadian/Sumerian area and may have been familiar with the Sumerian texts or their stories, which included a great flood and the Gods (Anunnaki) creating humans in their image. "our image" is even included in the common versions of the Bible versus "my image".

From the King James Version of the Bible:
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."


In the "alternative community" some view the Sumerian cylinder seals and clay texts about the creation of man and woman as indicating the that Anunnaki DNA was spliced onto the DNA of a homind species that was in the image of the Anunnaki. There is also the thought that other attributes in humans may have been adjusted in human DNA by other alien species, such as the Pleaidains adding in blue eye color, which even mainstream scientists believe may have come from one ancestor between 6,00 and 10,000 years ago.

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg685/scaled.php?server=685&filename=creationofman.jpg&res=landing

http://www.livescience.com/9578-common-ancestor-blue-eyes.html

Even though the idea that God is a part of everything and created everything isn't included in the Sumerian texts, it may have the same roots as the common "alternative community" idea that there is an all encompassing consciousness that everything is a part of.

Also, there is an "alternative community" idea that "Jesus" may have been an alien-human hybrid with the God/father being an Anunnaki or from some other alien species.