PDA

View Full Version : Enlightenment and related matters.



Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30

greybeard
8th April 2010, 09:31
Hi friends
To put it into context.
There are two kinds of ego.
One as defined by the Medical/ Psychiatric profession.
is Healthy self esteem.
It is good to take pride in the way we do things.
When one is comfortable with oneself and what one does then fear decrease and it is easy to be in this world with all its trials and tribulations at that point there is an over lap into the second definition of ego, the spiritual one.

The ego in spiritual terms could be defined as "Edge God Out"
Every spiritual teacher without exception says that to fully know one true self the ego must be transcended.

There were some very good contributions to this thread on Avalon and I hope that the same will apply here.
Celine has said that the complete thread from Avalon will be reposted here but there are technical problems in doing this at the moment, hopefully these will be resolved.
Time being fresh insights are very welcome.
Chris
Namaste.

Swami
8th April 2010, 10:08
For now I will post this...

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=518

Coming from this book:
http://bookstore.yogananda-srf.org/c56/c60/The-Holy-Science-p307.html

I will give a "translation" later as I'm very short in time now....

THX for starting this thread Greybeard, very interesting material.......

kriya
8th April 2010, 10:16
Greybeard,

Good to see you. I'm glad you are here.

Can't the original thread from PA1 be brought over here, so that you don't have to start again? And have you heard from 14chakras?

Love,

Kriya

stardustaquarion
8th April 2010, 10:55
Hey Greybear, lovely to see you

My understanding is that EGO stands for epigenetic overlay which is gone out of control, it is part of our anatomy so we can not get rid of it we just have to heal it. Healing the EGO means re-aligning ourselves with the path of joy which is aligning with the natural laws that rule the cosmos. The laws of the cosmos are related to the efficient use of energy because expanssion (sometimes called ascension) can not happen if we do not have enough energy in the system

Lets take the choice of being joyfull or unhappy, when we are unhappy we spend energy which does not return to us. Instead when we are in joy the energy that we are experiencing expands and give us an energy profit.

All that is related to the missuse of the EGO is related to the path of de-evolution or opposite expression to Source

True to say that source gave us free will but this is not a "free for all" cosmos, which means that our decisions have consecuences in energy terms and at the end mean the difference between eternal life and finite life

Source prefers us to live in joy but it is our choice to decide what we want to do. Whether we chose the path of joy or the path of opposite expression, source loves all parts of itself equally

When we are overly identified with our EGO we lose our conection with source and we fall in a state of fear that propel us to find "safety" by opressing those that we perceive as a threat to us
In reality, that is only a EGO illussion for everyone and everything in the cosmos is made of source essence and hence, everything even those that choose the path of de-evolution can not escape source because they are inside source

Living in harmony with the laws of the cosmos and re-training our EGO to trust source and the process align us with probabilities that are more in co-resonance with the "ideal" life that most of us have want to experience and are called heaven on earth or paradise on earth

One of the most difficult EGO patterns to contend with is "the blame game". When we are in EGO conscioussness and blame others for what is happening in our lives we disempower ourselved totally, we give all our power to that we are blaming....this is why the illuminati are winning this reality game because we are blaming them for all the ills in our lives, rather that say ok "why am I creating this and how can I stop thinking this way". Re-training our EGO and self empowering ourselves is not difficult but it takes mindfullness, patience and perseverance

This is my pespective

Thank you for providing a space in which we can express our personal perspective on the matter

Love :grouphug:

greybeard
8th April 2010, 13:16
Greybeard,

Good to see you. I'm glad you are here.

Can't the original thread from PA1 be brought over here, so that you don't have to start again? And have you heard from 14chakras?

Love,

Kriya

Hi Kriya
I have asked for the original thread to be transported as there was a lot of good material posted there by quite a few contributors.
Celine has said yes but there are tec probs at the moment so rather than wait, I thought it best to resume.
!4 Chakras and I have had some email contact.
Love
Chris

greybeard
8th April 2010, 13:33
Hi Stardustaquarian
Thank you for your post.

What you say is so and will take you so far but it will not lead to enlightenment.
However it is very helpful to tame the ego first and certainly life will be a lot easier when the ego is docile.
Only very high spiritual energy will assist the complete transcendence of ego.
That comes through aligning with Gods will.
The ego is not the enemy as such it is just an obstacle to attaining higher consciousness.
Its a bit like launching a space rocket in that the first stage drops away when it has served its purpose.
The ego was necessary to get the human race to this stage of evolution from a materialistic point of view, however it is a
a hindererence to evolving further spiritually and therefore fulfilling our true potential.
Chris

greybeard
8th April 2010, 13:36
Thanks Swami
Sat Chit Anand
May we all experience this soon.
I learned a lot from Yogananda books.
Chris
Namaste.

truthseekerdan
9th April 2010, 04:48
Hey Chris,

Good to see that you re-started your thread here. I believe it's a bit technically inconvenient to have the old thread transferred on this new forum anytime soon.

I hope you'll not forget to continue contributing at the oasis also...;)
In case anybody else is wondering and want to participate, here is the link at the oasis thread:

http://www.myspiritualoasis.org/showthread.php?12-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend

Best regards to all,

Namaste

allhealing
9th April 2010, 06:51
To even be able to exist within this universe from a four dimensional perspective as a being or as anything else duality is needed. Without duality no contrast can exist. Contrast gives us the full spectrum of possibilities to explore this universe from our perspective of linearity.

As long as we limit our self to a four dimensional perspective of reality, captured is what we will be within this universe.

When we stop our act of thinking that we are our though, expansion beyond a four dimensional reality becomes possible. Actually we are already there, and yet our behavior belief system tells us something else. A reality beyond the four dimensional reality contains an eternal perspective on the linear prison.

Since thinking is a linear way of observing what really is going on thinking will be the moment 22 that stops you from expanding beyond this material reality.

The smarter you are, if smart is measured in IQ, the longer this process will take. IQ is based on thinking. IQ is based on a time/space reality. IQ has very little to do with thinking outside the box. IQ exist and is trapped within our time stamped left brain way of presenting our reality. We even call this way of thinking for a reality based on logic, hmm.

When we realize the timeless capacity that our right brain contains and is able to intermingle these two parts of our self then things that we used to “think” with our left brain no longer will be imprisoning us. This expansion will help us all to access the “being” aspect of who we also are. It is this aspect that will help us to expand out of a time/space reality into a quantum eternal view of how beautiful eternity actually can be and actually already is. A more expanded way of observing the reality releases the tensions that a time/space reality grips us with.

Once freed from this tension, a more expanded way of observing the reality from “outside the box” will help us to reclaiming our universe as the peaceful place that it actually is. This will happened when we all, from a more expanded understanding of how the reality connect the dots appear within us.

We will then realize that contrast no longer is needed as an egoistic tool to separate this universe. We will then realize that contrast when observed from a quantum state beyond time and space actually can heal our self within the box in the blink of an eye. This will then create not only peace on earth but peace in the entire 4 D universe for it then no longer is separated from the life outside the box.

allhealing
9th April 2010, 06:51
To even be able to exist within this universe from a four dimensional perspective as a being or as anything else duality is needed. Without duality no contrast can exist. Contrast gives us the full spectrum of possibilities to explore this universe from our perspective of linearity.

As long as we limit our self to a four dimensional perspective of reality, captured is what we will be within this universe.

When we stop our act of thinking that we are our though, expansion beyond a four dimensional reality becomes possible. Actually we are already there, and yet our behavior belief system tells us something else. A reality beyond the four dimensional reality contains an eternal perspective on the linear prison.

Since thinking is a linear way of observing what really is going on thinking will be the moment 22 that stops you from expanding beyond this material reality.

The smarter you are, if smart is measured in IQ, the longer this process will take. IQ is based on thinking. IQ is based on a time/space reality. IQ has very little to do with thinking outside the box. IQ exist and is trapped within our time stamped left brain way of presenting our reality. We even call this way of thinking for a reality based on logic, hmm.

When we realize the timeless capacity that our right brain contains and is able to intermingle these two parts of our self then things that we used to “think” with our left brain no longer will be imprisoning us. This expansion will help us all to access the “being” aspect of who we also are. It is this aspect that will help us to expand out of a time/space reality into a quantum eternal view of how beautiful eternity actually can be and actually already is. A more expanded way of observing the reality releases the tensions that a time/space reality grips us with.

Once freed from this tension, a more expanded way of observing the reality from “outside the box” will help us to reclaiming our universe as the peaceful place that it actually is. This will happened when we all, from a more expanded understanding of how the reality connect the dots appear within us.

We will then realize that contrast no longer is needed as an egoistic tool to separate this universe. We will then realize that contrast when observed from a quantum state beyond time and space actually can heal our self within the box in the blink of an eye. This will then create not only peace on earth but peace in the entire 4 D universe for it then no longer is separated from the life outside the box.

greybeard
9th April 2010, 08:06
Hi allhealing
I can see your point of view.
The mystics have always talked from a non-dualistic state so it is
possible to live in this 3d world any yet not need duality.
Dr Hawkins explained it best for me.
Darkness is not the opposite of light, there is a sliding scale from extremely bright light all the way down to dim light then absence of light.
Water H2O goes through various classes of existence -- steam at very high temperature--liquid--ice ant a lower temperature a sliding scale.
Its still H2O regardles.
With God its total Love---down to absence of love.
Evil is not the opposite of God but the denial of God -- denial of Love.
The mystic is in a no-mind state, there is no thought process just pure awareness. They just know that which supports life so there is no need for duality.
In a no mind state there is no desire so no need to create. Creation happens of its own potential
Nothing is causing anything else to happen
Causality is a an illusion of the ego
chris

greybeard
9th April 2010, 08:21
Hey Chris,

Good to see that you re-started your thread here. I believe it's a bit technically inconvenient to have the old thread transferred on this new forum anytime soon.

I hope you'll not forget to continue contributing at the oasis also...;)
In case anybody else is wondering and want to participate, here is the link at the oasis thread:

http://www.myspiritualoasis.org/showthread.php?12-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend

Best regards to all,

Namaste

Hi No worries my friend .
As though I would desert a good place to be.
Oasis is my home too.
Thanks for starting it Dan, much appreciated.
Chris

Vidya Moksha
9th April 2010, 09:45
Hi Chris
I didnt follow your thread on AV1... but looking in here. I can offer no help in 4D or 33D, i dont understand it.
I struggled a long time with the understanding and concept of ego. I used to want to 'lose' my ego, or 'defeat' it... until I began to realise that without ego I couldnt live. I now see ego, in simplistic terms, as the body. The body needs support in terms of food and water..but more than this also.
I see ego as separate from the mind. Ego is basic in its desires and needs, it is not intellectual or spiritual, it seeks to perpetuate what it is. It will therefore try to control the mind into giving it what it needs to sustain itself. When the 'mind' or 'soul' leaves the body then ego sees that as the end of itself...so in astral traveling one of the first lessons is to reassure the ego that its ok for the 'mind' (spirit, soul whatever label you want).. to leave the body, in fact, its more than ok. the mind leaving the body will in fact make the ego (body) a better place/thing after the mind has gone out and learned things that will be of benefit to the ego.
One useful trick is to recognise that .. 'this body is tired' or 'this body is hungry', to see the body as ego and to see the mind as separate from that body/ego.

so i like the title of the thread, to transcend ego is not to destroy a vital part of ourselves, as we are now in this incarnation of what we are NOW.. we are who we are and chose to be here for a reason.

Ego gives us direction and purpose on some levels and is a vital part of what we are at this present time.

thats my 2 cents anyway.... i dont have much more to add within my present awareness but will look in for other views

greybeard
9th April 2010, 12:27
A challenge for me, is the word co-creator.
co implies duality as in co-worker.
The ego loves to think it is creating.
We are unique and I believe that God creates through that uniqueness the great works of art and all that is good, yet we are not the doer as such.
We can improve upon our uniqueness and in this be better servants of Divine will, that is our potential to do so, but without God there is no individual creation.
I have never, any where read a Sage use the word co-creator, nor imply it.
all devotion is always to God.
The Course in Miracles says that specialness is the last resort of the ego.
Lucifer left heaven because he wanted to be special and probably though he could create better than God, so what have got on earth? but fallen consciousness creating havoc.
Not saying Im right but intuitively feel that this is so.
Chris
Namaste.

stardustaquarion
9th April 2010, 12:34
[QUOTE=greybeard;7810]Hi Stardustaquarian
Thank you for your post.

What you say is so and will take you so far but it will not lead to enlightenment.
However it is very helpful to tame the ego first and certainly life will be a lot easier when the ego is docile.
Only very high spiritual energy will assist the complete transcendence of ego.
That comes through aligning with Gods will.
The ego is not the enemy as such it is just an obstacle to attaining higher consciousness.
Its a bit like launching a space rocket in that the first stage drops away when it has served its purpose.
The ego was necessary to get the human race to this stage of evolution from a materialistic point of view, however it is a
a hindererence to evolving further spiritually and therefore fulfilling our true potential.
Chris[/QUOTE

I agree that you need using high spiritual energy which is why the Maharic Seal and all the flame body activations help. Not only they reset ones template to Sources aligment they also heal other environmental blockages. Working with 12 dimensional energies and beyond have been an incredible experience form me. It really moves you forward. But the EGO is part of ourselves and it needs healing otherwise we will leaving behind a part of ourselves that will force us to come back and back again into incarnation

The EGO originally was not intended as our enemy, it was our self presevation program to protect us against environmental dangers but all the cataclisms that happen here affected the EGO program which is the reason it needs healing

Fundamentally I think we agree in the same main points

Love

greybeard
9th April 2010, 12:44
Hi Vidya
I suggest that Higher self is actually looking after one.
Your are right that the human race would not have survived this far without ego for the reasons you have mentioned.
However that intellect that created many good snd useful things also created many that are not life supporting.
We are heading into a time of transition of consciousness in fact a new breed of human you could call Homo spiritus, that is a dfinition used by Dr David Hawkins in several books of his.
the publisher is
http://www.veritaspub.com/
well worth a quick vist to the web page.\
thanks for your contribution.
Chris

greybeard
9th April 2010, 12:48
Hi Star
we are mainly in agreement and were aren't it matters not.
Thanks for posting
Chris

frank samuel
9th April 2010, 13:08
Hey mr. grey just stopping by to say hi. Maybe you'll make a video with you playing a few tunes on your guitar. I know this has nothing to do with the ego, but hey I like to hear you play a few tunes after all it is a part of the beauty that lies within your heart .;)

Have a great day to everyone !!!:thumb::wub:

Vidya Moksha
9th April 2010, 23:24
Hi Vidya
I suggest that Higher self is actually looking after one.

We are heading into a time of transition of consciousness in fact a new breed of human you could call Homo spiritus, that is a dfinition used by Dr David Hawkins in several books of his.
the publisher is

Chris

I quite agree about the higher self, i never mentioned that in my post.. isnt that separate from ego and mind? i always thought so. And we have many guides besides our higher selves, that much i know.

consciousness is always evolving. every day is a new day. no need to rename species yet i dont think :)

Lucid Jia
10th April 2010, 00:21
Good to see this thread over here. I very much enjoyed the original. Thanks Greybeard.

“It is the nature of the ego to take, and the nature of the spirit to share.”

Nmaste, Jia.

Solphilos
10th April 2010, 01:35
The ego is a necessary part of human experience. Without it, we would have no point of reference in physical reality, no means of locating ourselves in space-time. It is a vital element that keeps us in the body, and allows us to participate in this unique experience of density.
I do believe that transcending the ego is key, not to escape it, but temporarily loosen it's hold on our consciousness so that we may experience ourselves in full manifestation, and put the ego in its proper place so that it works for us instead of us working for it.

My preferred methods of achieving such a state of ego-loss is meditation, pranayama, fasting, and psychedelic compounds. Sometimes individually, and sometimes different combinations of them all.

greybeard
10th April 2010, 03:01
I quite agree about the higher self, i never mentioned that in my post.. isnt that separate from ego and mind? i always thought so. And we have many guides besides our higher selves, that much i know.

consciousness is always evolving. every day is a new day. no need to rename species yet i dont think :)


Hi Vidya
Yes Higher self is mindless, The Self remains after death of the ego, mind, does not. Buddhists call this no-mind
Self is totally aware without the need for mind. Time is not necessary either and that is beyond my understanding.
No doubt there are Guardian Angels, and Guides.
thanks for posting here.
Chris

greybeard
10th April 2010, 03:10
Hi Solphios
Depens how far you want to go and what you mean by ego.
Enlightenment is without doubt an egoless state as testified by sages.
Taming ego is a massive step forward and well worthwhile.
Higher Self actually does much which the ego likes to claim authorship of.
That still quiet voice that remind you of something you forgut is Higher, noisy accusing is ego.
With me its surrender, gratitude, mantra and meditation.
What is also very helpful is to sit on a seat in the park and watch nature, easiest is ducks, just watch without nming or comment, that is hard at first but eventually you can be enthralled sitting there in silence without a though in the head.
Thanks for your comments
Chis

greybeard
10th April 2010, 03:20
Good to see this thread over here. I very much enjoyed the original. Thanks Greybeard.

“It is the nature of the ego to take, and the nature of the spirit to share.”

Nmaste, Jia.

Thanks for your kind comment my Lucid friend.
May we share in spirit
Ch

allhealing
10th April 2010, 14:37
My view of the ego in this universe is that the ego is not me but separated from me. I am me and that is all that I am. The ego is according to me a energy that always is some or alot out of balance. The I am as a reference point in this universe is always in balance and therefore also in balance with my spirit that has the ability to reach out beyond this universe. It is when I in my body attract unbalanced energy and wow this together in my physical body that a very confusing energy arrives in my body energy system.

When I then hold the I am energy in my body and all of a sudden also have a unaligned egobased energy arriving in my thinking field, it is then that confusion arrives. All of a sudden what was one very balance energy no long is.

Where does this ego energy arise from? How is it created? What does it feed of? And why is it so hard to even understand that the I am and the ego actually does not match?

This is of course the deepend understanding that starts to become more prescent within a person when this subject lands in a persons conscious mind.

To internmingle the I am and the ego of course creates a very energy intensive soup called life. This is one way of living but this is not the only way of living. How does one live a life separated from an unbalanced and always out of alignment energy called ego?

What comes to your mind around these question, feel free to develop my question.

Solphilos
10th April 2010, 14:56
Hi Solphios
Depens how far you want to go and what you mean by ego.
Enlightenment is without doubt an egoless state as testified by sages.
Taming ego is a massive step forward and well worthwhile.
Higher Self actually does much which the ego likes to claim authorship of.
That still quiet voice that remind you of something you forgut is Higher, noisy accusing is ego.
With me its surrender, gratitude, mantra and meditation.
What is also very helpful is to sit on a seat in the park and watch nature, easiest is ducks, just watch without nming or comment, that is hard at first but eventually you can be enthralled sitting there in silence without a though in the head.
Thanks for your comments
Chis

I think we are in full agreement here. Your expression seems to have more of an Eastern flavor, while mine is coming from a Hermetic background. Different tastes, yet one and the same!
I quite enjoy hearing different takes on such things from people with varying backgrounds, worldviews, philosophies and experience. Sometimes drastically different approaches, yet often the same results.
Thanks mate.

greybeard
10th April 2010, 17:14
I think we are in full agreement here. Your expression seems to have more of an Eastern flavor, while mine is coming from a Hermetic background. Different tastes, yet one and the same!
I quite enjoy hearing different takes on such things from people with varying backgrounds, worldviews, philosophies and experience. Sometimes drastically different approaches, yet often the same results.
Thanks mate.
Yes Solpilos
I think it is good to have the eastern and western, modern and ancient, input as a cross check
Its all the same really just different ways of approaching it.
Eckhart Toll in "The Power of Now" likens part of the ego as a "painbody" it attracts drama, it pushes peoples butons to get dramatic energy responses
Its like it feeds on the energy of the outburst of others.
Thanks for your contributions that how we learn and grow together.
Chris

greybeard
11th April 2010, 19:59
One of the most helpful things I learned is.


"I don't have to be right"

There is tremendous freedom in this.
I can just be.
I dont have to take up a position on anything.
Of course I have opinions and preferences but nothing is set in concrete.
I don't actually mind what happens.
From past experience I have seen that when I get my own way (ego) it can be disastrous.
In alignment things just happen for the best effortlessly.
Chris
Namaste

greybeard
18th April 2010, 14:36
Confrontations over very little seem to be appearing elsewhere in the forum. Avalon 1 challenges seem to be recreating themselves here.
The ego loves to be right.
The moment a position is taken up an equal amount of energy will be applied from an apposing point of view, thats the law of physics.
Virtually any point of view will attract an adverse reaction.
Its possible to be neutral without being passive. However the highest truth represented by compassion requires action to occur.
Jesus was certainly not inactive but never claimed that he was doing anything and thats the paradox.
"I of my self do nothing it is the Father within."
Thats an ego-less statement, filled with humility.
"The Father and I are One" is perhaps a paradox yet true.

Will we ever learn these truths subjectively for ourselves?
I believe the answer is yes.
I believe man kind has turned a corner.
We are evolving rapidly.
Chris

mike1414
18th April 2010, 14:45
One of the most helpful things I learned is.


"I don't have to be right"

There is tremendous freedom in this.
I can just be.
I dont have to take up a position on anything.
Of course I have opinions and preferences but nothing is set in concrete.
I don't actually mind what happens.
From past experience I have seen that when I get my own way (ego) it can be disastrous.
In alignment things just happen for the best effortlessly.
Chris
Namaste

these are very wise words...i like them and thank you for them

really enjoy reading this thread

peace always
mike

greybeard
18th April 2010, 18:45
Thanks for your kind words Mike
Chris

bettye198
19th April 2010, 02:07
I do not presume to be a psychologist or one who has studied the facets of Ego in the human biology but I did cross fascinating information in Ashayana's Vol 2 Voyagers book. The origin of Ego occurred around 9540 BC when a mutation in the third DNA strand manifested a division within the third chakra and mental body level of the bio-energetic field, emerging as a new type of consciousness. ( excerpted pg 79) There were base tones and higher overtones of the Third DNA strand in the identity. The Higher became the Higher Self. The lower, the Ego. The Ego developed an exaggerated sense of dualistic perception locked into the five sensory perception. ( excerpted pg 79)

Back story: a Frequency Fence was created to protect the Sphere of Amenti from destroying the Earth if entered prematurely - The Sphere allows souls to transcend to higher dimensions and get off the reincarnation wheel - complex but compelling reading.

During that time, the human population was placed under quarantine. Through this Fence the Ego was cut off from a conscious relationship with its personal morphogenetic field and from the morphogenetic fields of its race and the planet. ( this is where the Ego felt the isolation and separateness) This is where the human consciousness became locked within the illusion of matter and . . . .losing touch with the Source within and behind all things . . . ( excerpted pg 80)

As long as the Frequency Fence was operational, the Ego could not translate higher dimensional data into conscious awareness nor could it translate the comprehension of the Higher Self mind. ( excerpted pg 80)

What the Higher Mind did was create Intuition, thereby communicating data to the conscious awareness via feelings.

When the Third strand DNA is completely assembled, the Higher Self aspect of identity will merge with the EGO and the mental awareness will comprehend itself as being a multidimensional identity. The first step in integrating the Ego into this multidimensional identity is to open the lines of conscious communication between Ego and Higher Self. ( excerpted pg 81 )

Teakai
19th April 2010, 02:49
My take on the ego, Greybeard, and it’s very simple, because I really like simple, is that it’s a false sense an illusion of ourselves and who we are and the world given to us through our 5 senses via the environment. It is located in our primitive brain and is part of the survival instinct.

Tuning in to the more evolved, frontal brain can shift our attention from this primitive state and expand our beingness /consciousness.

And apparently, one way to do this (apart from meditation) is by popping the amygdala. I’m thinking that by doing this often it rewires, or reconnects or stimulates this part of our brain connecting us to a higher state of consciousness.

greybeard
19th April 2010, 11:29
There are those that watch it happen, those who make it happen and those who are unaware of anything happening.
Now I tend to read only books by those who are in the state of enlightenment because thats my personal preference.
As is said talking about it is not it.
However its a question of meeting people where they stand.
Eckhart Tolle will appeal to a lot of people, David Hawkins to less.
Ramana to a few, Nasargadatta to even less.
But those mentioned are uniform in their subjective experience, the mind becomes silent and a state of peace prevails no matter what.
Humans are naturally curious and are drawn to all kinds of interesting things.
For me its a bit like the old fashioned types of rockets, when launched they would vere from one extreme to another while going towards the target, not this not that, then eventually they would go straight towards the goal.
ive read many books from self help positive thinking, ascension, angels, pyramid info, earth changes channeling, you name it I have been there.
All useful to me at that time but eventually for me they were a distraction and I only speak for me.
I had to get down to, if I wanted to know God subjectively I had to do the internal work as recommended by all sages throughout all of time, meditation and service to others to the best of my ability.
My present aim is to be kind to all life no matter what, sometimes I fail miserably, when there is a modicum of success I feel good, I get positive feed back tat I am on target so to speak.
the ego of course puts up a resistance and tries to tell me I am missing out on something.
The reverse is true, those who are enlightened live in an entirely different realm, free of concepts, of having to conform, free of all bondage.
Yet right action just flows through them.
With love
Chris

greybeard
19th April 2010, 11:35
My take on the ego, Greybeard, and it’s very simple, because I really like simple, is that it’s a false sense an illusion of ourselves and who we are and the world given to us through our 5 senses via the environment. It is located in our primitive brain and is part of the survival instinct.

Tuning in to the more evolved, frontal brain can shift our attention from this primitive state and expand our beingness /consciousness.

And apparently, one way to do this (apart from meditation) is by popping the amygdala. I’m thinking that by doing this often it rewires, or reconnects or stimulates this part of our brain connecting us to a higher state of consciousness.

As to taking anything I honestly dont know.
However the act of meditation rewires the brain and that is scientifically proven in Dr Hawkins book "Power vs Force"
It is simple but not easy.
Ultimately the ego is a an illusion because it is thought based.
Anything that comes and goes is not your true Self which is eternal.
Thanks to all who post here.
Chris

Teakai
20th April 2010, 01:27
As to taking anything I honestly dont know.
However the act of meditation rewires the brain and that is scientifically proven in Dr Hawkins book "Power vs Force"
It is simple but not easy.

Chris
LOL. I was a bit confused here for a minute. I wondered where I'd mentioned taking anything. I guess you're refering to 'popping' the amygdala. It's a node in the brain which rewires, or reconnects us to our frontal lobe - same effects as meditation - but quicker apparently.(Just in case you weren't taking the pi** :D)

I do very much agree with what you're saying about ego illusion.

truthseekerdan
20th April 2010, 02:53
All of us, including myself, have come from this place called God, and it is that God within each and every one of us that directs our lives, unless we leave it and take on something called the ego, which is really hard to let go of.

- Wayne Dyer


Source: My Spiritual Oasis (http://www.myspiritualoasis.org/showthread.php?12-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend&p=330&viewfull=1#post330)

Love, :wub: ~ Dan

P.S. Chris, you got 5 stars from me on this thread :wave:

greybeard
20th April 2010, 08:27
LOL. I was a bit confused here for a minute. I wondered where I'd mentioned taking anything. I guess you're refering to 'popping' the amygdala. It's a node in the brain which rewires, or reconnects us to our frontal lobe - same effects as meditation - but quicker apparently.(Just in case you weren't taking the pi** :D)

I do very much agree with what you're saying about ego illusion.

Hi Teakai
I was in ignorance of popping amygdala, thanks.
Please keep posting here that how we spread understanding of a complex subject.
Chris

¤=[Post Update]=¤


LOL. I was a bit confused here for a minute. I wondered where I'd mentioned taking anything. I guess you're refering to 'popping' the amygdala. It's a node in the brain which rewires, or reconnects us to our frontal lobe - same effects as meditation - but quicker apparently.(Just in case you weren't taking the pi** :D)

I do very much agree with what you're saying about ego illusion.

Hi Teakai
I was in ignorance of popping amygdala, thanks.
Please keep posting here that how we spread understanding of a complex subject.
Chris

greybeard
20th April 2010, 08:36
Source: My Spiritual Oasis (http://www.myspiritualoasis.org/showthread.php?12-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend&p=330&viewfull=1#post330)

Love, :wub: ~ Dan

P.S. Chris, you got 5 stars from me on this thread :wave:

Thanks Dan
Wayne Dyer is a personal friend of Dr David Hawkins and has sat at many of his lectures taking copious notes.

"My spiritual oasis" site should have 9 stars Dan .

For general info Hawkins publisher site is.
http://www.veritaspub.com/


Dr. David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D.

Dr. Hawkins is an internationally renowned psychiatrist, physician, researcher, and pioneer in the fields of consciousness research and spirituality. He writes and teaches from the unique perspective of an experienced clinician, scientist, and mystic and is devoted to the spiritual evolution of mankind.

Much of what I post regarding transcending the ego is influenced by Dr Hawkins book "Discovery of the presence of God /Devotional nonduality"
Chris

truthseekerdan
20th April 2010, 13:36
"My spiritual oasis" site should have 9 stars Dan .

Chris

I wish...:) Forums have only from 1 to 5 stars ratings, but thanks for your generosity. ;)



The ego exists because we go on pedalling desire, because we go on striving to get something, because we go on jumping ahead of ourselves.

- Osho Quote

Perplex
20th April 2010, 14:11
Hey guys, thanks for the wonderful thread :)
Just about two days ago I received my usual newsletter from Adrian Cooper ( Our Ultimate Reality ) , and guess what it is about : Ego-less Expression. So if you think it's worth your while reading it, I suggest you do so . http://www.ourultimatereality.com/newsletters/180410.pdf - here is the link. I don't exactly know if you can read it if you are not a member of the web site, or not, but if so create an account, it's easy to do and takes little time; also might help in the future :).
For those who are not familiar with Adrian Cooper, I also recommend reading his book, since it offers quite some knowledge and a good vibe :). The book and many other materials can be found here http://www.ourultimatereality.com/files/ .

Oh, and concerning the ego, I do recommend you take a look over the montalk materials too. Here is a link for that as well - http://montalk.net/metaphys/42/principles-of-spiritual-evolution-part-i - It might not seem to have any connection at first, but I assure you it does if you take a closer look :)

Sorry if I was a bit off topic for you.

Best of wishes,
Rares

truthseekerdan
20th April 2010, 14:20
Hey guys, thanks for the wonderful thread :)
Just about two days ago I received my usual newsletter from Adrian Cooper ( Our Ultimate Reality ) , and guess what it is about : Ego-less Expression. So if you think it's worth your while reading it, I suggest you do so . http://www.ourultimatereality.com/newsletters/180410.pdf - here is the link. I don't exactly know if you can read it if you are not a member of the web site, or not, but if so create an account, it's easy to do and takes little time; also might help in the future :).
For those who are not familiar with Adrian Cooper, I also recommend reading his book, since it offers quite some knowledge and a good vibe :). The book and many other materials can be found here http://www.ourultimatereality.com/files/ .

Oh, and concerning the ego, I do recommend you take a look over the montalk materials too. Here is a link for that as well - http://montalk.net/metaphys/42/principles-of-spiritual-evolution-part-i - It might not seem to have any connection at first, but I assure you it does if you take a closer look :)

Sorry if I was a bit off topic for you.

Best of wishes,
Rares

Hey Rares, Bun Venit! If you visit the link in my sig. you'll find the book there. (daca esti interesat sa participi si tu cu noi)
Pentru mai multe detalii PM.

Thanks, ~ Dan :wub:

greybeard
20th April 2010, 14:29
Hey guys, thanks for the wonderful thread :)
Just about two days ago I received my usual newsletter from Adrian Cooper ( Our Ultimate Reality ) , and guess what it is about : Ego-less Expression. So if you think it's worth your while reading it, I suggest you do so . http://www.ourultimatereality.com/newsletters/180410.pdf - here is the link. I don't exactly know if you can read it if you are not a member of the web site, or not, but if so create an account, it's easy to do and takes little time; also might help in the future :).
For those who are not familiar with Adrian Cooper, I also recommend reading his book, since it offers quite some knowledge and a good vibe :). The book and many other materials can be found here http://www.ourultimatereality.com/files/ .

Oh, and concerning the ego, I do recommend you take a look over the montalk materials too. Here is a link for that as well - http://montalk.net/metaphys/42/principles-of-spiritual-evolution-part-i - It might not seem to have any connection at first, but I assure you it does if you take a closer look :)

Sorry if I was a bit off topic for you.

Best of wishes,
Rares

Hi Rares
welcome here and thanks for sharing.
Very much on topic.
I had a quick look at the newsletter which is good.
Its not possible to transcend the ego without Divine intervention, however it is good to start by taming it.
Everything is as it should be. Consciousness is at play.
According to Eckhart Tolle and others consciousness is rising as the Totality want that to happen and is binging it about.
Chris

Perplex
20th April 2010, 14:51
Indeed, and still the Ego is part of our current life experience because we chose it that way, and it is amongst the package of "lessons" we are bound to return to our higher self with. Otherwise, if we had not needed it in the first place, it would not be, now :). But nevertheless , taming it is of course , never a bad option :D . But don't forget it's a part of us all, as long as it still is , and in order to " tame it " it must first of all be acknowledged , as it is :)

Cheers !

greybeard
20th April 2010, 19:15
Indeed, and still the Ego is part of our current life experience because we chose it that way, and it is amongst the package of "lessons" we are bound to return to our higher self with. Otherwise, if we had not needed it in the first place, it would not be, now :). But nevertheless , taming it is of course , never a bad option :D . But don't forget it's a part of us all, as long as it still is , and in order to " tame it " it must first of all be acknowledged , as it is :)

Cheers !

Hi Perplex
Agreed that the ego is currently part of our existence, so is war,disharmony and many other things that are not "healthy"
Though everything has its place to assist our evolution.
However times the are a changing.
Its like the ego was a first stage in a rocket to get us so far, it burns out and drops away having got us this far..
In order for it to go it does have to be acknowledged, it is not the enemy and has been useful, however we are evolving to a point where it is no longer needed.
Awareness takes its place.
There has allways been fore runners in the world showing us the way.
Until Rodger Bannister ran the four minute mile people believed that the speeds achieved up till that time was the max for human runners.
The moment that barrier was broken there was a flood of runner exceeding Rodger Bannisters sucess.
So coming to the point.
There have allways been sages since time began who lived in oneness with God -non-duality, an egoless state. Their minds silent they just know, they are aware of all that needs to be known, there is no mind between them and subjective experience.
I suggest that now many are heading for that state which some call Christ-consciousness.
Chris

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Indeed, and still the Ego is part of our current life experience because we chose it that way, and it is amongst the package of "lessons" we are bound to return to our higher self with. Otherwise, if we had not needed it in the first place, it would not be, now :). But nevertheless , taming it is of course , never a bad option :D . But don't forget it's a part of us all, as long as it still is , and in order to " tame it " it must first of all be acknowledged , as it is :)

Cheers !

Hi Perplex
Agreed that the ego is currently part of our existence, so is war,disharmony and many other things that are not "healthy"
Though everything has its place to assist our evolution.
However times the are a changing.
Its like the ego was a first stage in a rocket to get us so far, it burns out and drops away having got us this far..
In order for it to go it does have to be acknowledged, it is not the enemy and has been useful, however we are evolving to a point where it is no longer needed.
Awareness takes its place.
There has allways been fore runners in the world showing us the way.
Until Rodger Bannister ran the four minute mile people believed that the speeds achieved up till that time was the max for human runners.
The moment that barrier was broken there was a flood of runner exceeding Rodger Bannisters sucess.
So coming to the point.
There have allways been sages since time began who lived in oneness with God -non-duality, an egoless state. Their minds silent they just know, they are aware of all that needs to be known, there is no mind between them and subjective experience.
I suggest that now many are heading for that state which some call Christ-consciousness.
Chris

Teakai
21st April 2010, 10:18
Indeed, and still the Ego is part of our current life experience because we chose it that way, and it is amongst the package of "lessons" we are bound to return to our higher self with. Otherwise, if we had not needed it in the first place, it would not be, now :). But nevertheless , taming it is of course , never a bad option :D . But don't forget it's a part of us all, as long as it still is , and in order to " tame it " it must first of all be acknowledged , as it is :)

Cheers !

I do agree, Perplex. No ego - no lesson - no point.

I think one of the great lessons of life is finding our way from ego back to who we are .
:)

greybeard
21st April 2010, 11:41
I do agree, Perplex. No ego - no lesson - no point.

I think one of the great lessons of life is finding our way from ego back to who we are .
:)

Problem is repeating the same lesson over and over again and not getting back to who we really are. Lol
Chris

Perplex
21st April 2010, 13:20
Indeed graybeard :)
I never suggested we should repeat the lesson and of course, when the time comes it won't be needed at all, as you said in the rocket metaphor, which I liked by the way lol :D
Awareness is surely going to take it's place soon, and we all await that moment , I'm sure :)

truthseekerdan
21st April 2010, 16:15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbj4nLOPN8o&feature=player_embedded#!

EckhartTeachings — April 20, 2010 — Sample Q&A from the May 2010 Issue of Eckhart Tolle TV Q: Is the ego the source of our thoughts or are our thoughts generated elsewhere and passed through the ego? The ego arises out of the state of identification with thought. The moment of freedom arises when we realize that we are not our thoughts—rather, we are the awareness.

greybeard
21st April 2010, 16:43
Thanks Dan
there is a level beyond consciousness and even awareness, that is being aware of being aware.
That is truly what you are -- pure awareness.
At that level all thought stops. It is no longer needed.
Its virtually telepathic.
There is no distance between subject and object so there is no time as we know it no space ie distance as everything is literally interconnected yet unique. Science has proven that.
We are connected to the furthest part of the galaxy.
The finger is connected to the hand to the arm, they have different functions but they operate in tandem, in unison as one.
The mystics say that Truth can not be spoken of because the moment explanation is applied it becomes a concept and that is not it.
That which we are can only be experienced subjectively.
The ego is a separation device which prevents us knowing our true self.
Therefore if one really wants to know One Self the ego must be transcended.
Thats as near as I can get to it.
Eckhart is in that state and point the way for others to follow.
Its our true state
Chris
Namaste

truthseekerdan
22nd April 2010, 04:18
More to learn about the "benefits" of the ego...;)



The egotistical ambition to always want to earn more money harms both the company and the individual himself. That is the biggest weakness of many managers – the financial crisis has proven this.

- Dalai Lama

Teakai
22nd April 2010, 04:44
Problem is repeating the same lesson over and over again and not getting back to who we really are. Lol
Chris

Yes, that's true. But we'll sort it out eventually.
:)

annemirri
22nd April 2010, 09:35
Greybeard,

The master of all the Ego conversations :thumb: how to transcend the ego.

if the ego is in its simplest

"the opinion that you have of yourself and your own importance",
then why did you choose the photo RAMANA as your Avatar ?

Do you take yourself so important that you can speak through the Master RAMANA,
be his representative here ? or why the avatar ?

(To be honest, I am really disappointed with you, as I actually though that it is a photo of you
when you were in India :doh: being a breatharian...all that.:sad:)

a.

K626
22nd April 2010, 10:45
The naughtiness of my ego trascnends my need to transcend it.


KNietzsche

greybeard
22nd April 2010, 12:15
Greybeard,

The master of all the Ego conversations :thumb: how to transcend the ego.

if the ego is in its simplest

"the opinion that you have of yourself and your own importance",
then why did you choose the photo RAMANA as your Avatar ?

Do you take yourself so important that you can speak through the Master RAMANA,
be his representative here ? or why the avatar ?

(To be honest, I am really disappointed with you, as I actually though that it is a photo of you
when you were in India :doh: being a breatharian...all that.:sad:)

a.

hi a,
I had to have some avatar, so I picked Ramana out of respect for his teachings.
I dont represent anyone except me.
I respect the Budahs teaching which says "Put no head above your own" so I dont neither do I put no head below my own, we are all equal souls.

My own picture is on the personal page.
Virtually everything I know about the ego is attributed to Hawkins or Eckhart Tolle however I have found it to be true in my own experience.
I share what I have found to be useful, people can pick it up or leave it as they wish.
My ego is still work in progress as I have said several times.
The ego thread has gone on and on because people ask questions and visit the thread, if no one visited it, the thread would have died a long time ago.
Some have pm me to say how much they have benefited.
Where is the Transcend the ego thread leading?
Why home of course.
My thoughts are my own though influenced by the teachers and life experiences.
I dont claim to be right but, I suspect that Hawkins, Ramana and other sages are.
Regards Chris

annemirri
22nd April 2010, 12:34
I had to have some avatar, so I picked Ramana out of respect for his teachings.

What if I change my Avatar to the Holy image of Virgin Mary ?

I am sure that it would protect me from too much critisism,
or even from those ones who posted me "be dead you..." images ;)

And, it may even bring to the surface something in me,
more gentle, loving and caring, motherly energies...

the holy images, pictures or paintings are not to be worshiped,
but
they remind us of something "holy", giving us " a role model",
idea of something that we may be able ourselves to reach or return to.




I dont represent anyone except me.

and then you may change your avatar to be your own beautiful self,
do not shy away, hide behind the picture of other master...


Love,
a.

annemirri
22nd April 2010, 12:58
The naughtiness of my ego trascnends my need to transcend it.


And that is so true with you !
you are a bad bad boy,:mmph: who takes himself so important that keeps people waiting !

You invited yourself over, not bothered to to tell that you are not coming until the day later...
and I noticed that you did the same to Samvado, as he complained on one thread you not showing up on Thursday...

Naughty Boy ! but I love you anyway.

a.

greybeard
22nd April 2010, 13:15
What if I change my Avatar to the Holy image of Virgin Mary ?

I am sure that it would protect me from too much critisism,
or even from those ones who posted me "be dead you..." images ;)

And, it may even bring to the surface something in me,
more gentle, loving and caring, motherly energies...

the holy images, pictures or paintings are not to be worshiped,
but
they remind us of something "holy", giving us " a role model",
idea of something that we may be able ourselves to reach or return to.




and then you may change your avatar to be your own beautiful self,
do not shy away, hide behind the picture of other master...


Love,
a.

Hi a,
The Virgin Mary picture may be a good idea -smiling.
I dont actually have many pics of me.
In my ignorance I thought that an avatar pic was supposed to be of an avatar when I first joined avalon, I havent been on another forum so I didnt know.
Foolish man.

I like the Ramana pic, there is a certain energy to it, and it kinda reminds me of the spiritual intention I have expressed.

I will see if I can upload a clearer picture of me to my page here.
Your personal picture is very good.
Regards
Chris

annemirri
22nd April 2010, 13:33
I like the Ramana pic, there is a certain energy to it, and it kinda reminds me of the spiritual intention I have expressed.

It has indeed a very loving honest energy,
and when you, greybeard, sing your voice is like Ramana's ! (or as I suppose his voice to be.)

so, if anyone does not know, go to www.myspiritualoasis.org and
you could find Greybeard singing ! I love it.:hug:




I will see if I can upload a clearer picture of me to my page here.
Your personal picture is very good.

(There is only two or three photos of me from past seven eight or ten or sixteen years...
so, I took a photo of myself last October, just before my birthday, as I did not even know myself how I actually looked...funny, as mirrors can lie, sensitive people are not that good to be photographed, so I know that it is not that easy for you to find a good photo of yourself,
and those full of ego, importance, like to be photographed all the time and always look good on photos !)

Love,
a.

truthseekerdan
22nd April 2010, 13:54
It has indeed a very loving honest energy,
and when you, greybeard, sing your voice is like Ramana's ! (or as I suppose his voice to be.)

so, if anyone does not know, go to www.myspiritualoasis.org and
you could find Greybeard singing ! I love it.:hug:

Love,
a.

Chris, personally I like the avatar you chose :cool:
Thank you Anne, for recommending Chris's songs which I also like very much. :thumb:

Here is a great video for all of us to enjoy...:grouphug:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbiZlF0V4O8&feature=related

greybeard
22nd April 2010, 14:22
a said
"And, it may even bring to the surface something in me,
more gentle, loving and caring, motherly energies..."
Oh I see that in you annemirri.
Thank you for your kind comments.
I really enjoy singing.
My neighbor is enthusiastic too, said " It sure scares the mice away" Lol
Scots have a several saying to keep people from getting an inflated ego.
"He is no better than he should be"
"He is getting above himself"
" I will put his gas down to a peep"
We as a nation tend to self depreciate, which is a shame.
Love
Chris

annemirri
22nd April 2010, 18:37
Scots have a several saying to keep people from getting an inflated ego.

"He is no better than he should be" "He is getting above himself"
" I will put his gas down to a peep"
We as a nation tend to self depreciate, which is a shame.


Very much like finns, my mother used to scare me by saying

" those who lift themselves above others, God will bring down "

and I was so good and shy, I tried to make myself invisible,
once one old lady asked me to board the bus before her, and I did,
as I had been on the bus stop before her,
but afterwards I was so afraid that I had done something very wrong,
going before an old person,
that I hid under my bed all evening, worrying that my mother would find out and punish me!

a.

greybeard
22nd April 2010, 21:36
Very much like finns, my mother used to scare me by saying

" those who lift themselves above others, God will bring down "

and I was so good and shy, I tried to make myself invisible,
once one old lady asked me to board the bus before her, and I did,
as I had been on the bus stop before her,
but afterwards I was so afraid that I had done something very wrong,
going before an old person,
that I hid under my bed all evening, worrying that my mother would find out and punish me!

a.

I can identify with your story annemirri.
My life as a child was filled with fear.
Im glad im free of that and my five children grew up with a positive childhood and to the best of my knowledge did not experience the nameless fears I encountered.
Have three well adjusted grandchildren too, I count my blesings.
Chris

annemirri
22nd April 2010, 22:19
I

My life as a child was filled with fear.


Do you want to hear why I am that fearless person ?

When I was a little child my father used to say MANY TIMES that he is going to kill us all,
especially if my mother file for divorce.

So, my mother did,
and my sister's schoolfriend's father killed all his three children as their mother wanted a divorce....

so I was scared to dead ! I could not talk to anyone as my mother did not want anyone to know anything that was going on in our family....

One day I came home from the school, I was fourteen, and we got a call from the hospital
saying that my mother was there...half conscious.

We went to see her, my father had beaten her very badly...
But, we, me and my sisters, did not even feel sorry for her !

at that point we realized that she, my mother deserved all that,
my father was not that violent person at all, only his words,
and there is always two parts, the victim may well be the cause for all that...

so, I got tired of living in fear, if I fear something it will happen, if I don't, it won't.

a.

truthseekerdan
23rd April 2010, 05:27
:focus:

Ego could be defined as whatever covers up basic goodness. From an experiential point of view, what is ego covering up? It's covering up our experience of just being here, just fully being where we are, so that we can relate with the immediacy of our experience. Egolessness is a state of mind that has complete confidence in the sacredness of the world. It is unconditional well being, unconditional joy that includes all the different qualities of our experience.

- Pema Chodron



http://www.psychologytoday.com/files/u114/39-ego.jpg

annemirri
23rd April 2010, 06:32
:focus:[CENTER]



Dan,
you did not get it, there is no reason to post "back to topic", or did it hit too near ?

My father must have been an ego driven man,
for his ego family was very important, so that is why he was threatening to kill us all,
not out of his badness or madness,( and he did not even drink.)
but out of fear losing us.

or maybe he just loved us too much,

as it turned out that my mother was the real ego driven person,
she was all the time complaining, nagging, as my father did not behave the way she wanted him to, she wanted social status.

a.

greybeard
23rd April 2010, 07:50
Good morning a,
you are of course right we attract that which we fear.
Its good that fear is no more.
With love Chris

greybeard
23rd April 2010, 10:30
I see it very simple and I talk for myself here.
If I want to know something about a subject I go to an expert.
If I want to know how to become a good dinghy racer I read books by people who have competed at the highest level not someone who has read about it.
If I want to have a nice garden I read books by gardeners not some one who is an expert dinghy racer who happens to have a garden that he works with occasionally.
If my life is devoted to finding the answer to question "Who am I?" then I read books by those who are enlightened.
If I want enlightenment than I listen to those who are in that state not talking about it.

Those who are enlightened uniformly say the same thing, the ego needs to be transcended in order to know that which you are.
The ego would have you believe something quite different
We are all aspects of God and therefore One with that which created us.
I believe them when they say this..

There is another very important reason for reading books by these souls.
The words in the books are carrier waves of the spiritual vibration of enlightenment and thus raise the spiritual vibration of anyone who reads them.
A book by an author who is not enlightened may be helpful in the early stages of personal spiritual growth but lack the energy that the word of the enlightened author has.

Chris

truthseekerdan
23rd April 2010, 14:07
Ego is not your Self

Please enjoy the following extract of a talk by Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi, founder of Sahaja Yoga.
This talk (http://www.sahajayogameditation.com/ego-is-not-your-self.html) took place on the 22nd October 1979 in London.

http://www.sahajayogameditation.com/uploads/EgoisnotyourSelf.mp3

truthseekerdan
25th April 2010, 05:04
A False Self Image.

• The ego is one's false-self-image.
• Its not something real that one can hold in hands or take a picture of.
• It is just like a reflection to which one is made to identify with.
• In this sense...it can be compared to a reflection on a mirror.

One's Emotional Goalkeeper.

• The ego does the job of allowing only some emotions to pass through while labeling the others as bad and resisting them.
• The ego-cares for you. It thinks that had it not been for its resistance, interference, manipulations and so on...one would be nowhere.
• The result...the ego tries to resists some emotions which according to the popular opinion i.e. social conditioning is considered as "bad".
• According to the ego life is going to be ideal/perfect only when ABC happens and that anything other, let's say XYZ should not happen.

MOMENTS when the ego takes roots.

• "If you do this you are a good boy or else a bad boy."
• "Look at JOHN, does he trouble his parents (like you)?"
• "I wish you were like him."
• "You are lazy." (an absolute statement)
• "You are stupid."
• "You are brilliant" (as compared to others).
• "You should be like this." (you are not good enough the way you are now)
• "Life should be lead like this." (Life is not perfect the way it is right now)
• "You are a good boy."
• "I don't know when you will be matured."
• "It is good you are not like him."
• "Thank GOD you are not like the other boys/girls in this society."

Survival strategies for the ego.

Resistance to what is:
• The present moment is not at all perceived as good by the ego.
• It has to be manipulated, changed, moved away, escaped and so on for the ego.
• The ego actually cannot survive for long under the rays of "What is".
• And so...it constantly denies and resists the "What is".
• For the ego...life is all about the past and the future.


Brooding over the past.

• I guess this is self-explanatory.
Strategising for the future. This may not always be planning which is an intelligent activity. It involves living in a dream-world built up of its own thoughts. Thinking, Thinking, Thinking. Thinking is the favorite game as well as the life-blood of the ego. Believe it or not...without thinking...the ego may not be able to survive within one, even for a single week. Thinking shields a person from the exposure to "What is".

THE EGO HATES.


Allowing things to be just as they are.
It only understands manipulation and tampering with stuffs, be it relationships or a journey or your present moment etc.
BEING. The ego doesn't even understand being. (Yet the moments that one truly cherishes in life are the moments in which there was no doing but just being. It may be during a first kiss, or first love or during a sexual orgasm and so on).
Surrender.The ego wants a confirmation to everything. It may play a victim to life, but surrender? Nope!
The NOW moment. The food of the ego as well as its structure consists of time i.e past and future(this has got nothing to do with the clock time).
The thought of being in the NOW also strikes terror for the ego.
Time, thinking, doing, achieving thats all it wants.
Silence. The ego wants constant chatter, something to chew always, some clatter, some noise, some activity and so some noise. It cannot tolerate silence even for a minute.

greybeard
25th April 2010, 08:20
Hi Dan you hve really put a lot of thought into this and it is undeniably true.
Thanks
Chris

greybeard
25th April 2010, 10:47
Most people confuse the ego with self esteem which is healthy.
The ego is very subtle.
I will give an example.
The thought "my" applied to virtually anything is divisive and judgmental.

My team won!!!
Oh did you score the goal?
No.
When one is attached to the result - my team won or lost, then elation or misery follows.
If you dont identify strongly with the team then you are free to enjoy the skill involved regardless of which side wins.
It seems so innocent but in this civilized country Scotland it is not so long ago that if you wore the "wrong" color of scarf you risked being beat up stabbed killed.
Celtic football colors green - Rangers blue-- tribal virtually.
In Ireland Catholic vs Protestant.
My religion vs yours -- where does God stand in this -- not at all.
Judgment is not for us.
One can take pride in athletic accomplishment thats different - one can honor a team or player - thats different.

No one stands alone.

Another thought.
I had beans out of a can last night. I paused to wonder just how many people were in involved in getting "my" supper to me. Hundreds was as close as I could get.
I am dependent on many others for something as simple as having beans for supper.
Then there was the gas supply the cooker the pan the plate the knife the fork-- the washing up, its endless. Thats just one small part of the day.

The ball cant go in the net without the team getting it to the striker and on it goes.
There wouldent even be a game with out the other team.
So there is uniqueness but not separation in this world.
Uniqueness is a function, thats what I do, its not really what I am.
The ego forgets all this and is hell bent on proving that we are separate, different is a function a said, not the same as uniqueness, I do things in a unique way so it is still an action, a function. Function come and go, the real "I" remains constant.
We are all waves of the same Divine ocean when we realize this, war hatred, revenge, anger, will be things of the past.

Only through realizing what is happening in "my" personal life can I make a difference. Only when I realize that I am listening to the ego and being influenced negatively by it, can I be free to really enjoy life with all its uniqueness.
Not easy to transcend the ego,
Is that worthwhile worth the effort involved?
I want peace, harmony, respect, for all?
Yes?
Then it makes sense to do what ever it takes.
With respect
Chris

greybeard
27th April 2010, 07:56
A Course in Miracles is good.
It says "People are never angry for the reason they think they are angry"

There are no accidents in the universe.
DH says that everything that ever happened -- the totality of it brings about this moment. Thats Karma.
Our acceptance or non acceptance of what is--- thats free will--- that sets the potential for the next moment and therfore karma also.
WE change our thoughts, we change our actions, we change karma.
Sometimes the unpleasant has to come up to be released.
Thats God shaking our foundations as you quoted Dan.
Our thoughts, words and deeds, and our intention (Intention sets the context the very meaning of the action) mitigate past and future karma.
We raise our spiritual vibration and to begin with all that is not aligned with our new vibration comes up to be released.
So at first it can seem that we are going backwards rather than forwards.
What was once acceptable in us and to us is now uncomfortable to live with and that discomfort moves us on to higher vibration.
We are in the crucible being purified just now, the impurities are being burnt off. Not easy.
Eckhart said "This life time is like going through three life times at once"
Thats my understanding of the moment.
Peace to all.
Chris

greybeard
27th April 2010, 08:25
Ego transcending

This prayer first thing in the morning.

"Beloved God I am born now from the womb of sleep.
I am determined to dedicate all acts this day as offerings to you with you ever present before my minds eye.
Make my words thoughts and deeds sacred and pure.
Let me not injure anyone let no one injure me.
Guide me direct me this day"

Now the ever present bit is too much to expect but God is there even if you are not aware of it.


Food you can say a silent grace only takes moments.

Any dedication only takes seconds. "I offer this act to you beloved God" thats it.

In bed first a few moments running through the day with gratitude.
Leave meditation aside time being unless you really feel up to it

Now the final prayer.

"The acts of this day who's burden I placed upon you this morning are now over.
It was You who made me walk and talk and think and act.
I therefore place at Thy feet all my words thoughts and deeds.
Receive me now, I am coming home to Thee.

If you have a problem falling asleep this is what works --always.

I have a beaded "necklace" cant remember the proper name. 108 beads.
I do 3 Om's; close my eyes and in my head do the mantra - Om Nama-Shivia.
Its rare that I get a full rotation 108 beads.
I awake refreshed in the morning, beads still in hand.

Even if all you can do is the morning and evening prayer you will find a difference within a month.
Mind no expectation, the joy is in the moment just doing it out of love for The Beloved.

With Love
Chris

truthseekerdan
27th April 2010, 13:23
Most people confuse the ego with self esteem which is healthy.
The ego is very subtle.
I will give an example.


Dear Chris, I will post here what found to be relevant info about this topic from the collective consciousness we call Internet.

There's a lot of talk about "self esteem", how to have it, what it is, what it means. However, what passes for self esteem is often simply ego. That might seem a perplexing statement. First let's get a little clarity on what healthy self esteem is. It is a balanced and unexaggerated self respect and self love. It combines a healthy regard for the self with a healthy regard for others. Healthy self esteem esteems others as equally as the self. Others are treated and regarded as respectfully as the self.

Ego, on the other hand, always believes in its own self importance above the importance of others. Ego always requires outside approval, validation, and constant attention and gratification. Ego believes in its own superiority above all others. Some versions of ego insist on inferiority as a role. Both inferiority and superiority are lies though, and variations of the same theme -- of feeling "less than" others. Here are some ways to recognize ego and distinguish it from self esteem:

1.) It's ego when we are condescending, rude or disrespectful of wait staff, retail clerks, parking valets, or anyone we imagine is "less important" than us. Those with healthy self esteem are respectful to all they come into contact with.

2.) It's ego when we use anger to manipulate others, get our way, or attempt to communicate our supposed superiority. Those with healthy self esteem have healthy boundaries and desire to communicate respectfully and non-manipulatively.

3.) Ego is about the one note song, "mi, mi, mi". When we talk incessantly about ourselves and show no interest in others that comes from ego. A person with healthy self esteem does not need to be the center of attention at all times. Healthy self esteem is more frequently expressed by showing genuine interest in others, and making sure conversation flows among all participants.

4.) When we are expressing ego, we are spectacularly lacking in compassion. We judge harshly, show no empathy, and find fault easily. When we are expressing healthy self esteem, we are able to be compassionate without being codependent (unable to set healthy boundaries, "people pleaser"). We are able to understand the viewpoints of others and have a genuine interest in them.

5.) When we are being egotistical, we believe we know everything about everything and that we are right about everything we "know". We believe that the opinions of others are "stupid", ill-advised and just plain wrong. When we are coming from healthy self esteem, we are willing to hear the opinions of others and we're able to entertain the notion that their opinion is their opinion and we don't have to agree. Both people can be right (and OK).

6.) When we are coming from ego, we are unwilling to pay the least attention to the interests of others. We single mindedly expect everyone to share our interests, but don't reciprocate. When we have healthy self esteem, we are curious about the interests of others. Even if we don't want to actually share the interest, we want to share their delight in their interest.

7.) Impatience is frequently a sign we are expressing from ego. Often, it derives from feeling self important and that the world owes us attention (or priority) whenever we want it. Sometimes our impatience is actually the result of our own failures such as not leaving in enough time to get somewhere and being highly impatient in traffic. When we're coming from healthy self esteem, we have highly developed patience and we live our lives strategically enough that we don't waste our time in situations that require extreme patience.

There is a huge difference between ego and healthy self esteem. The most significant thing is that when we are coming from ego, it is obvious to everyone but us!

greybeard
27th April 2010, 18:45
Hi Dan
this is really good.
Much appreciated.
love chris

Majorion
27th April 2010, 20:11
Thank you greybeard, I think the ego is mainly a result of being trapped an entire lifetime in "one" body, for most; the effect is single mindedness, at least for the average person just trying to get along in life, facing challenges everyday, sometimes enormous challenges, and being so preoccupied with life itself, its difficult to think outside that "one" mind, it never seems like there is enough time or energy, except for the few 5% in the world who are extremely privileged and free, now 'they' have no excuses for single mindedness. :)

greybeard
27th April 2010, 20:24
Thank you greybeard, I think the ego is mainly a result of being trapped an entire lifetime in "one" body, for most; the effect is single mindedness, at least for the average person just trying to get along in life, facing challenges everyday, sometimes enormous challenges, and being so preoccupied with life itself, its difficult to think outside that "one" mind, it never seems like there is enough time or energy, except for the few 5% in the world who are extremely privileged and free, now 'they' have no excuses for single mindedness. :)

Thanks for your Input Majorion.
Love Chris

greybeard
28th April 2010, 20:17
Id like to share my thoughts of the moment.
I am aware that I exist, that truth is unchanging, that is an ultimate truth.
Solid so to speak, eternal.
Truth is unchanging anything that comes and goes is not ultimate truth.
That which looks through these eyes is not changed in any way since the moment I first opened my eyes as a baby.
My body grows older stiffer, old age comes not alone, but I experience in the same was as ever I have.
I dont feel any different. I dont recognize that which I see in the mirror as me.
Thoughts come and go so they cant be me.
Ideas come and go, experiences come and go, emotions fluctuate, so they cant be me.
I am aware that I witness all these events in life, they are just passing by.
I am not moving, I am eternal unmoving, witnessing.
I have a front seat in the play of this life.
I see my persona interacting but I am not involved or affected by any outcome, yet compassion arises.
There are many paradoxes on the spiritual path.
Many things are not personal, awareness is just happening, I cant stop it.
Thoughts arise, I didnt ask for them, I dont feed them now so there are less of them.
I appreciate the body I inhabit, I appreciate many things, I can laugh at what Chris does, Im aware that Chris is a persona that has been formed through genes, culture, DNA, programing, life itself. Yet I am unchanged.
So who am I?
Or more precisely what am I?
All I know for sure is that I exist and in essence have not changed.
Opinions appreciated.

Chris

RedeZra
28th April 2010, 20:59
what am I


the moon and the sun

the mind and the spirit

when the sun is eclipsed by the moon

when the spirit is eclipsed by the mind

it gets dark

the mind must give way to the spirit

spontaneous illustrious spirit

forever fresh and always new

engaging neverending now

shining zeal and zest like the sun


I am light as a thousand suns

Beren
28th April 2010, 21:33
It seems like long time ago something happen. Something of great importance and its ramifications still haunts. Regarding that ,I can not recall what,I do not remember.Neither do,here. I feel quite often as you Chris, observing things that keep on happening in my life and other people lives. Thoughts are creating in my mind that start to paint the picture for me where I am being told that all this is deliberately done for me in order to see,feel,live and most of all-learn.

Can I change anything? I don`t know. Maybe all is prearranged without our knowledge in order to mirror our reactions ,intentions,motives on why we do everything. Will we learn anything . Like endless triggers for our souls... As more time passes by I feel the fire in my heart and not just a fire ; an energy glowing and steaming inside of me...A thing that is telling me how I feel...and I feel more drawn to Creator and Christ . The more this racket goes on the more I hear that tiny voice ...Voice that was there when universe was being created...

greybeard
28th April 2010, 22:00
It does my heart good to see you both posting my friends (RedeZra and Beren)
Voices in harmony saying virtually the same thing in unique ways.
Yet no specialness is claimed, that is for the ego to do.
God is to be found within and everywhere through humility, devotion to Truth, respect for others and reverence and surrender to the will of God.
When our time comes to depart his world, will all our knowledge of earthly matters serve us well?
Doubt it.

Chris
Namaste

truthseekerdan
29th April 2010, 04:30
So who am I?
Or more precisely what am I?
All I know for sure is that I exist and in essence have not changed.
Opinions appreciated.

Chris

Hey Chris, great question! My current understanding is that "we are gods in the making". :)
And No, I'm not kidding or trying to be funny here...;)

Love and Light,

Dan

Perplex
29th April 2010, 05:07
Hello Chris , since you mentioned it earlier, I thought I should also post my opinion .
I must agree with Dan on this one , but only partially though .
The only difference in my own understanding is that we are not gods - we are God .
God is all that is and exists eternally , expressing itself through us and vice-versa.
We are all the same, in essence , we have all departed from perfection to evolve and gain knowledge, understand and attain the ultimate perfection from which we are created and thus exist.
What you suggest is " all you know " - that you exist and in essence have not changed is priceless knowledge if you truly understand it as you state it ! You have always existed and never changed, and that is all because of the absence of time, in essence. We must fully understand the illusion of time and matter in which we currently develop - it is , in my point of view , one of the conditions needed for humanity to continue its journey.

Namaste,
Rares

greybeard
29th April 2010, 09:00
Hello Chris , since you mentioned it earlier, I thought I should also post my opinion .
I must agree with Dan on this one , but only partially though .
The only difference in my own understanding is that we are not gods - we are God .
God is all that is and exists eternally , expressing itself through us and vice-versa.
We are all the same, in essence , we have all departed from perfection to evolve and gain knowledge, understand and attain the ultimate perfection from which we are created and thus exist.
What you suggest is " all you know " - that you exist and in essence have not changed is priceless knowledge if you truly understand it as you state it ! You have always existed and never changed, and that is all because of the absence of time, in essence. We must fully understand the illusion of time and matter in which we currently develop - it is , in my point of view , one of the conditions needed for humanity to continue its journey.

Namaste,
Rares

Yes Perplex I understand it as I stated it.
Having read books by Rmana, Nasargadatta, Eckhart Tolle and Dr David Hawkins I realized the truth that I am unchanged.
I am not enlightened but one dosent have to be to know the fundemental truth. That which looks through the eyes is unchanged.
Its a short step to believe the mystics when they say that it is the same consciousness looking through all these eyes.
A short step to wonder not where I go after death but where was I long before even the universe existed.
I believe Mystics when they say "I am the totality all of it"
Mystics live in the formless, non-duality, timeless nonlinear.
Yes we are God in the making singular not plural.
Thanks Perplex.
Chris

blue777
29th April 2010, 09:09
Yes Perplex I understand it as I stated it.
Having read books by Rmana, Nasargadatta, Eckhart Tolle and Dr David Hawkins I realized the truth that I am unchanged.
I am not enlightened but one dosent have to be to know the fundemental truth. That which looks through the eyes is unchanged.
Its a short step to believe the mystics when they say that it is the same consciousness looking through all these eyes.
A short step to wonder not where I go after death but where was I long before even the universe existed.
I believe Mystics when they say "I am the totality all of it"
Mystics live in the formless, non-duality, timeless nonlinear.
Yes we are God in the making singular not plural.
Thanks Perplex.
Chris
I agree with you Chris , we are not God...we are a bit of light in an ocean of light.......there are a billion galaxies..one galaxy is big enough...anyone who says they are god suffees from EGO

greybeard
29th April 2010, 10:23
Yes blue777
There are paradoxes that only the mystic can understand.
We are waves of the divine ocean.
The ocean can say it is the wave but the wave cannot say it is the ocean.
Even the mystics acknowledge and revere God.
Seems there is a step down principal of the Power of God.
Ultimately only God is.
That became the God of creation, The Male and Female aspects, the Godhead the Trinity, all the way down to where we are, down to the microbe.
We are in kindergarten, play school, we have a long way to go, to evolve back to the fullness of what in essence we are allready.

Co creator I wouldnt want to be.
The ego co created the present illusion we are in.
In order for us to evolve the next stage is dissolution of the ego.
The moment we are aware that there is an ego and whilst we are responsible for it it is not what we are, the ego begins to loose its hold over us.

More input appreciated.
Chris
Namaste

blue777
29th April 2010, 10:31
Yes blue777
There are paradoxes that only the mystic can understand.
We are waves of the divine ocean.
The ocean can say it is the wave but the wave cannot say it is the ocean.
Even the mystics acknowledge and revere God.
Seems there is a step down principal of the Power of God.
Ultimately only God is.
That became the God of creation, The Male and Female aspects, the Godhead the Trinity, all the way down to where we are, down to the microbe.
We are in kindergarten, play school, we have a long way to go, to evolve back to the fullness of what in essence we are allready.

Co creator I wouldnt want to be.
The ego co created the present illusion we are in.
In order for us to evolve the next stage is dissolution of the ego.
The moment we are aware that there is an ego and whilst we are responsible for it it is not what we are, the ego begins to loose its hold over us.

More input appreciated.
Chris
Namaste

hello chris, here goes,
to discuss the EGO..SELF which creates pride, vanity selfishness greed arrogance , malevolence vanity , is difficult as we all suffer from some of these traits , though we do not want to admit it(vanity) etc..therefore the only way to transcend the EGO IS BY SUFFERING......this negates .a lot of the spiritual , emotional , intellectual and metaphysical NEGATIVE thought patterns ...of unreality , hate, falsehood , disordered reason
lol
hope thats enough
lol
blue

folotheflo
29th April 2010, 11:21
oh, this is so good, i love all this kind of talk, so invigorating. i am still not absolutely sure on the ego subject, is it that the ego is the self serving apsect of the being, and if out of balance, then can cause problems? and about enlightenment, if one learns about a subject, and masters it, or when one learns a thruth, as if to say " before i was in the dark, now i know, i can see clearly, i am in the light" then one has become enlightend in that area? i am not sure what god is, maybe god is another word for life, maybe god is everything in existence combined, but i know we all are a part of it, and it a part of us, i'm not even sure " part " is the right word. all i actually know, is that when i am aware, by that i mean when i wake in the morning, and i open my eyes, something is happening, birds tweet and i again wonder what the day will bring, or what i will bring the day. i beleive that everything is just as it should be, all is unfolding just as it should. much love to you all

greybeard
29th April 2010, 14:29
Hi folotheflo
thanks for your input and questions.
"The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle was a huge benchmark for me and well worth reading.
The link below leads to the original ego thread at Avalon, a lot of good contributions there that will help understanding on the ego.

http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18206

Regards Chris

greybeard
29th April 2010, 14:45
hello chris, here goes,
to discuss the EGO..SELF which creates pride, vanity selfishness greed arrogance , malevolence vanity , is difficult as we all suffer from some of these traits , though we do not want to admit it(vanity) etc..therefore the only way to transcend the EGO IS BY SUFFERING......this negates .a lot of the spiritual , emotional , intellectual and metaphysical NEGATIVE thought patterns ...of unreality , hate, falsehood , disordered reason
lol
hope thats enough
lol
blue

Thanks again Blue777
It certainly helps to hit rockbottom.
If everything in life was ok then who would look for answers?
The belief in the me story is so powerful, its a love affair with me.
The only way to remove this illusion is through surrender to God.
As said my ego is work in progress but at least it is begun.
There is great relief and freedom in not having to be right.

Chris

blue777
29th April 2010, 15:06
Thanks again Blue777
It certainly helps to hit rockbottom.
If everything in life was ok then who would look for answers?
The belief in the me story is so powerful, its a love affair with me.
The only way to remove this illusion is through surrender to God.
As said my ego is work in progress but at least it is begun.
There is great relief and freedom in not having to be right.

Chris

I understand what you are saying Chris........it is a learning cycle for all of us...unfortunately we have to learn through suffering
lol

truthseekerdan
29th April 2010, 18:28
Hello Chris , since you mentioned it earlier, I thought I should also post my opinion .
I must agree with Dan on this one , but only partially though .
The only difference in my own understanding is that we are not gods - we are God .
God is all that is and exists eternally , expressing itself through us and vice-versa.
We are all the same, in essence , we have all departed from perfection to evolve and gain knowledge, understand and attain the ultimate perfection from which we are created and thus exist.
What you suggest is " all you know " - that you exist and in essence have not changed is priceless knowledge if you truly understand it as you state it ! You have always existed and never changed, and that is all because of the absence of time, in essence. We must fully understand the illusion of time and matter in which we currently develop - it is , in my point of view , one of the conditions needed for humanity to continue its journey.

Namaste,
Rares

Rares, good point. :) However, while we are from our parent we still independent fragments from it and not yet IT. ;)
I know this might sound far-fetched, but think about it this way -- God/Source is inside its creation (universe, us, etc.) as well as outside from it. We as part of its creation "live" inside it, so all creation is actually fragments of the parent Source within IT.
Now my understanding is that we as fragments (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1487-The-Universe-as-God-A-Challenge-to-your-Imagination&p=13761&viewfull=1#post13761), as we evolve and perfect our souls, the ultimate goal is to go back (return) and merge with Our Source Creator.
It took me a while to understand this concept, and I was also shown in a vivid dream (vision?) which I will reveal at a later time on the Oasis (http://www.myspiritualoasis.org/forum.php) forum, that this at least for me it's the case...

Namaste, ~ Dan ~ :wub:

RedeZra
29th April 2010, 19:06
I love this ego thread lol


to think is to fabricate

investing energy into inventions of mind and manipulations of matter


we have invented a world but we did not invent the Earth

we have invented an ego but we did not invent the Body


perhaps we are too preoccupied with inventions to perceive Reality

kriya
29th April 2010, 19:09
Rares, good point. :) However, while we are from our parent we still independent fragments from it and not yet IT. ;)
I know this might sound far-fetched, but think about it this way -- God/Source is inside its creation (universe, us, etc.) as well as outside from it. We as part of its creation "live" inside it, so all creation is actually fragments of the parent Source within IT.
Now my understanding is that we as fragments (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1487-The-Universe-as-God-A-Challenge-to-your-Imagination&p=13761&viewfull=1#post13761), as we evolve and perfect our souls, the ultimate goal is to go back (return) and merge with Our Source Creator.
It took me a while to understand this concept, and I was also shown in a vivid dream (vision?) which I will reveal at a later time on the Oasis (http://www.myspiritualoasis.org/forum.php) forum, that this at least for me it's the case...

Namaste, ~ Dan ~ :wub:

:thumb::biggrin1::thumb:

Love,

Kriya

greybeard
29th April 2010, 20:06
There are only minor differences in expression in the last few posts, we are in the main saying the same thing.
We are on a journey, we are going home to know what we are already.
Waves of the Divine ocean, still wet behind the ears Lol.
Thinking is of the mind as RedeZra has said.
We cant know who we are with more knowledge.
One sculptor was asked how he created a beautiful woman from a block of marble.
The answer, "I chip away all that is not feminine"
In order to know that which you are already in essence, it is necessary to chip away all that is not your true reality.
In reality you are God but you cant claim that until enlightenment occurs.
The Indians call that state God-realization or Self realization --- same thing.
Its an ego-less state - non-duality.
So yes Dan -- the wave becomes the ocean -- we merge with God.
The path is clearly set out by the mystics of yesterday and the present moment.
Eckhart Tolle and Dr David Hawkins and others are here for us now - they point they way -- they know.

Chris
Namaste

RedeZra
30th April 2010, 02:24
the Ocean and the wave

is a beautiful metaphor

for God and the Individual


what is a wave

it is the Ocean

undulating


we make the distinction

between the Ocean and the wave

but there are none

it is all Ocean

also when there are no waves



so also the Immanence of God is in Everything

but there would be no play no drama no give and take

if Everything knew Itself as God


By Being All Powerful

He hides and veils Himself from Himself


so much so that at best

an Individual thinks of itself as a particular or a wave of God

but in Reality it is all God


Only God Is

truthseekerdan
30th April 2010, 04:06
There are only minor differences in expression in the last few posts, we are in the main saying the same thing.
We are on a journey, we are going home to know what we are already.
Waves of the Divine ocean, still wet behind the ears Lol.

So yes Dan -- the wave becomes the ocean -- we merge with God.

Chris
Namaste

Dear Chris, I see the waves more like a collective manifestation of the creation itself.
As for each soul (higher self) you can compare it more closely to a cup from the Divine ocean (consciousness), and each life that the soul/spirit experiences in 3D is like a drop in that cup.
Let me share a bit more here about my understanding of the whole BIG picture. :)

When the moment that is called "The Big Bang" happened, the name given sometimes to the first divisions/fragments of the Source Creator; first were created the highest realm of angels, also known as the Archangels. There dwells the Christ conscious energy.
This division did not mean a decrease in essence of the Creator, but a proportional sharing of powers even if the entire fragments were not a whole any longer. Archangels have no "substance" they are just pure Love, expressed as Light energy.

Eons later, together with the Creator, Archangels created the next level of angels; who were also light and had their proportionate part of the powers of the Creator.
In the third stage of creation, the angelic beings, together with the Creator created life-forms to have potential; which means that now, the events could be manifested in what we perceive as material/physical. They have also created universes which, combined, make the cosmos with all its celestial bodies.

Each universe has its own god that leads and co-creates with the Source everything that we call life and "non-life". We happen to be inside this universe which is like a nursery for our souls, experiencing and learning everything that is needed to know in order to evolve spiritually; and when the "time is right" to become gods of other universes in the continual process of creation which in fact is the Divine Source looking back at itself through a mirror of a multitude of individual consciousnesses.

My apologies for this off-topic post...

Namaste, ~ Dan ~ :wub:

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu105/crystalgazer01/SPIRITUAL/1We20are20sspirits20hav20e20a20phys.jpg

greybeard
30th April 2010, 06:26
Hi Dan
wouldn't say its off topic as it is a follow on from the other posts.
Im not sure that I go along with what you wrote, as its not in line with anything that I have read by a sage or in a holy book.
There is a step down of power (Love) God has infinite power, archangels extremely powerful, angels less, humans even less.
However everything that I have ever read says there is only one God --- formless -- who manifest creation.
Everything ultimately comes from the formless.
We in form, it could be said create, within our own potential. Nothing in form has the ultimate power to create itself.
The moment you move away from formless you move into illusion-- you move away from God who is formless.

The danger is that ego gets in the way-- Edge God Our.
That started with the fallen angel Lucifer who was attention seeking and though he was the equal of his creator.
Now we have lower astral realms full of those who deny the love of God and claim that they are gods.
There are many theories on the go with just enough truth to make them believable but inevitably they are flawed, ego gets in there, the promise of specialness.
The devil tempted Jesus with the offer of power, it was rightly refused.

Im inclined to go with RedeZra

Ramesh Balsakar wrote this


God wrote the play
God produced the play
God directed the play
God is every actor in the play.
God witnessed the play.

Ultimately only God is.

There is the out breath of God (the big bang)
Then the in breath, everything without exception comes back into God.---formless.
Then the next out breath and so on.
God is Generation Order Dissolution.

Not saying im right but that is my current thoughts on it.

All input welcome.

With love and respect
Chris

truthseekerdan
30th April 2010, 12:51
Hi Dan

Ramesh Balsakar wrote this


God wrote the play
God produced the play
God directed the play
God is every actor in the play.
God witnessed the play.

Ultimately only God is.

There is the out breath of God (the big bang)
Then the in breath, everything without exception comes back into God.---formless.
Then the next out breath and so on.
God is Generation Order Dissolution.

Not saying im right but that is my current thoughts on it.

All input welcome.

With love and respect
Chris

Chris, I'm not saying that am right either, and I respect your opinion or point of view.
Ramesh Balsakar compares the "creation as a play", which is exactly what I described in my post.
Godhead Source is not confined only in its creation, but the creation form (play) manifests within IT.
Well, I will better let Mellen-Thomas Benedict (http://www.mellen-thomas.com/stories.htm) explain this "play" for us all since he experience it in his NDE.


As I rode this stream of consciousness through the center of the galaxy, the stream was expanding in awesome fractal waves of energy. The super clusters of galaxies with all their ancient wisdom flew by. At first I thought I was going somewhere; actually traveling. But then I realized that, as the stream was expanding, my own consciousness was also expanding to take in everything in the Universe! All creation passed by me. It was an unimaginable wonder! I truly was a Wonder Child; a babe in Wonderland!

At this point, I found myself in a profound stillness, beyond all silence. I could see or perceive FOREVER, beyond Infinity.

I was in the Void.

I was in pre-creation, before the Big Bang. I had crossed over the beginning of time/the First Word/the First vibration. I was in the Eye of Creation. I felt as if I was touching the Face of God. It was not a religious feeling. Simply I was at one with Absolute Life and Consciousness.

When I say that I could see or perceive forever, I mean that I could experience all of creation generating itself. It was without beginning and without end. That’s a mind expanding thought, isn’t it?

Scientists perceive the Big Bang as a single event which created the Universe. I saw during my life after death experience that the Big Bang is only one of an infinite number of Big Bangs creating Universes endlessly and simultaneously. The only images that even come close in human terms would be those created by super computers using fractal geometry equations.

The ancients knew of this. They said God had periodically created new Universes by breathing out, and recreated other Universes by breathing in. These epochs were called Yugas. Modern science called this the Big Bang. I was in absolute, pure consciousness. I could see or perceive all the Big Bangs or Yugas creating and recreating themselves. Instantly I entered into them all simultaneously. I saw that each and every little piece of creation has the power to create. It is very difficult to try to explain this. I am still speechless about this.

It took me years after I returned from my near-death experience to assimilate any words at all for the Void experience. I can tell you this now: the Void is less than nothing, yet more than everything that is! The Void is absolute zero; chaos forming all possibilities. It is Absolute Consciousness; much more than even Universal Intelligence.

The Void is the vacuum or nothingness between all physical manifestations. The SPACE between atoms and their components. Modern science has begun to study this space between everything. They call it Zero point. Whenever they try to measure it, their instruments go off the scale, or to infinity, so to speak. They have no way, as of yet, to measure infinity accurately. There is more of the 0 space in your own body and the Universe than anything else!

What mystics call the Void is not a void. It is so full of energy, a different kind of energy that has created everything that we are. Everything since the Big Bang is vibration, from the first Word, which is the first vibration. The biblical “I am” really has a question mark after it. “I am—What am I?” So creation is God exploring God’s Self through every way imaginable, in an on¬going, infinite exploration through every one of us. I began to see during my near-death experience that everything that is, is the Self, literally, your Self, my Self. Everything is the great Self. That is why God knows even when a leaf falls. That is possible because wherever you are is the center of the universe. Wherever any atom is, that is the center of the universe. There is God in that, and God in the Void.

Love and Light,

Dan

greybeard
30th April 2010, 14:44
Hi Dan
thats is a very good account of a valid experience.
I dont think you can know it till you are it so to speak.
We are in waiting talking bout it, unfortunately.
There is much miss understanding about the void.
Dr David Hawkins was on the Buddhist path previous to this life time and ended up in the void.
It seemed final but he had to come back, there was no God there no Love.
He is now fully enlightened and explains that the Buddha meant no-thing not nothing. ie formless.
I havent read other paths other than Buddhism talk about the void.
It took David Hawkins years to recover from God shock in order to give some explanation of what the state of enlightenment is and even after the initial level of enlightenment it progressed through further levels to the highest possible in this world according to the books "he" has written.
Its not personal in that there is no person left to be enlightened.
There is no time it is "experienced" as non-locality, formless, egol-ess -nonduality .
it is beyond our understanding.
Its an awareness a presence that existed before all universes were created and will remain after all universes cease to exist.
it is the totality yet none of it.
Words can only point to it.
Im doing my best from memory to convey what he has said.
It really best to read one of his books I would recommend "Discovery of the Presence of God /Devotional Non-duality"
Second hand from me is second hand.

Its our different insights that point to the Truth

Regards and love to you my friend Dan.

greybeard
30th April 2010, 18:37
Ps Dan the quote you have posted is in the main concordant with what David Hawkins says.
He says everything is autonomous fulfilling its own potential and that evolution and creation is the same thing and that God in His essence is present in every moment of creation. Infinity is beyond our understanding. It does seem though in my understanding that universes come into being then --cease to exist. Bit like the ebb and flow of the tide. There is also the fact that as God is formless ( David Hawkins experience) so are we. So we come from the formless and go back to the formless. I think the same thing happens with universes. Eckhart Tolle also says we were present before universes were formed and will be after all universes cease to exist.
The sages know. The void "word" meant two different things. Hawkins says that what the Buddha said was mistranslated and -miss-understood. However if you believe in the void you end up there after death. Between lives is not the same as enlightenment.
I smile when people contact the dead relatives for advice. If uncle Hary was an idiot when alive Im afraid he is an idiot on the other side too.
Im afraid I cant be serious for too long.
Who knows.
I don't.
Please Lord remove my ignorance.
Chris

kriya
30th April 2010, 18:56
I smile when people contact the dead relatives for advice. If uncle Hary was an idiot when alive Im afraid he is an idiot on the other side too.
Im afraid I cant be serious for too long.

Chris

That's so true. Also, PY said if you haven't met God in your physical body, you ain't gonna meet him when your dead either!

I once saw a documentary about Aileen Wournos, the seriel killer from Florida. She was clearly insane and should have been in a mental hospital, rather than sentenced to death. Anyway, in an interview she said that she didn't care about death because she was going to be with Jesus. Which proves her insanity!!

greybeard
4th May 2010, 11:44
Desiderata

Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.

If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let not this blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.

Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore, be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be. And whatever your labors and aspirations in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams; it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

grace
4th May 2010, 21:02
hello all,
i've been getting a real sense for what it means to be egoless lately. i had to come to conclusions about the ego by myself, as i used to hate when i would hear someone talking about making the release of your ego a goal. i honestly don't think i could articulate what i have been coming to understand. but if i were to try, i would say the ego is the fear of being perfect. this sounds very egotistical at first, but what i mean is that at any one time, alive or dead, here or there, with or without food or clothing or friends, things are perfect. any fear or reason for hesitency in the face of this constant perfection is my ego. there are two words that define everything i would say about the ego: Let Go.

greybeard
4th May 2010, 21:23
hello all,
i've been getting a real sense for what it means to be egoless lately. i had to come to conclusions about the ego by myself, as i used to hate when i would hear someone talking about making the release of your ego a goal. i honestly don't think i could articulate what i have been coming to understand. but if i were to try, i would say the ego is the fear of being perfect. this sounds very egotistical at first, but what i mean is that at any one time, alive or dead, here or there, with or without food or clothing or friends, things are perfect. any fear or reason for hesitency in the face of this constant perfection is my ego. there are two words that define everything i would say about the ego: Let Go.

Yes Grace ego is fear and yes you are perfect regardless of outside conditions.
When the fear clouds of the ego are removed the true Self shines forth illumined.
Yes let go is the answer.
Thanks Grace for your wisdom.
Chris

truthseekerdan
4th May 2010, 21:43
If I could only live at the pitch that is near madness
When everything is as it was in my childhood
Violent, vivid, and of infinite possibility:
That the sun and moon broke over my head.

Then I cast time out of the trees and fields,
Then I stood immaculate in the Ego:
Then I eyed the world with all delight,
Reality was the perfection of my sight.

And time has big handles on the hands,
Fields and trees a way of being themselves,
I saw battalions of the race of mankind
Standing stolid, demanding a moral answer.

I gave the moral answer and I died
And into a realm of complexity came
Where nothing is possible but necessity
And the truth wailing there like a red babe.

By Richard Eberhart

grace
5th May 2010, 01:24
Yes Grace ego is fear and yes you are perfect regardless of outside conditions.
When the fear clouds of the ego are removed the true Self shines forth illumined.
Yes let go is the answer.
Thanks Grace for your wisdom.
Chris

thanks chris, just hope i can have the courage to live by the words and truly let go. it's been an extremely selfish endeavor for me.. it seems like you have to be very self focused and self aware and live that extreme of selfishness until you dwell on your self so much that you tame it down more and more until it is nothing and you have nothing left to focus on.

thanks to you for starting the thread and for all the wisdom you've shared here.

truthseekerdan
5th May 2010, 04:21
Ego could be defined as whatever covers up basic goodness. From an experiential point of view, what is ego covering up? It's covering up our experience of just being here, just fully being where we are, so that we can relate with the immediacy of our experience. Egolessness is a state of mind that has complete confidence in the sacredness of the world. It is unconditional well being, unconditional joy that includes all the different qualities of our experience.

- Pema Chodron

http://www.hickerphoto.com/data/media/30/scenic-rainbow_3661.jpg

debzqld
5th May 2010, 06:50
Oh what a nice thread - and thanks Greybeard for posting the Desiderata (my large and rather old copy goes with me everywhere and sits atop my desk nowadays - had it since I was a small child). I love sharing this with others. I have to say that I enjoyed a lot of what many have to say on this thread - it's funny how many become fixed on their own importance, interpretations and ideas rather than gracefully add to their mind-library of knowledge. I felt enlightened by rather large chunks of this information and here I am older student of the behavioural sciences. We can all theorise as much as we like about EGO for instance, but it's the individual journey of self-reflection and self-discovery that unfolds and unmasks the all important and necessary EGO. First lesson: do not falsely believe that you are the things of the EGO. You are not any of those labels that you attach to yourself in an attempt to express yurself or identify who you think you are. Of course we need the EGO - but we must learn to let it (things) go - until then can we really say: I am Conscious therefore I AM?

greybeard
5th May 2010, 16:58
Causality

The ego believes there is a this causing a that ---- Duality.

My understanding is that the way the Creator set it up is, all life has potential which is unique to that individual form
Nothing, of itself, is causing anything to happen out with its own potential. ( how the ego loves to believe it is in control)

We are brought up to believe we and others cause things to happen - no we have a way of reacting to a situation a potential to react in our own way, no one or anything causes us to react in a definite way. No one cause us to be angry or happy that is our choice. The reaction comes from us alone.

An example.
The Marigold seed has the potential to grow into a marigold flower.
Rain soil sunlight create the environment for that potential to be realized but does not cause the flower to blossom. It may or may not realize its full potential.

The individual may have great latent abilities and those abilities may come to the surface if the environment is favorable.

A person may have great vision and see that vision materialize but chances are high that he or she would have to attract like minded individuals to create in harmony the project envisaged by the originator.
The idea first comes from the formless and first takes shape in the mind then continues on from there.
I wonder what placed the idea in the mind in the first place.
Could it be that our Creator had a hand in it?
If so the creation came from Oneness not ego.
Ego very often prevents and limits potential from expressing itself fully.

We may or may not realize our full potential to realize what we truly are.
No one can do this for us, it is a solitary undertaking though others may point the way and support us in our endeavor .
The ego is an obstacle to be transcended in order to do that.

The clouds may obscure the sun but never the less it is always there and will shine forth when all obstacles are removed.

Chris

greybeard
6th May 2010, 20:01
Eckhart Tolle, covers the subject beautifully, one comment of his that springs to mind is "Dont take your thoughts too seriously" Dr David Hawkins goes a step further " All thoughts are fallacious" however you would have to read the rest of what he said to put it into context.

It really is complex and thats where misunderstandings standings arise.
Total acceptance being in the now doesn't mean action is not taken.
Unconditional love is not warm and fuzzy it means loving the essence of all, the spirit/soul whatever. It does not mean condoning actions. Naivety== cant spell.---is not helpful.
As spiritual energy evolves/ rises to the point that unconditional love is possible, the third eye begins to open so that discernment takes place and right action occurs.

There is also an understanding that nothing escapes the law of Karma and there are consequences for every action.

Seeming victims are sometimes receiving back what they did to others in this life or past life. Its not for me to judge the right or wrong of anything.

Sometimes when another is suffering one is moved by compassion to do what can be done sometimes not.

If all action is done with integrity and the end result surrendered to God then no personal karma is incurred. If one claim the result of good action then positive karma is incurred, then you have to come back another life time to enjoy the fruits of your actions

So if you dont want to come back in humility and gratitude --- surrender -- surrender -- surrender. This also helps you to transcend ego.
It all depends on your spiritual goal. If you want enlightenment ( the ultimate goal of spiritual endeavor in this world) thats what you do according to those who are in that state. Final result is by the Grace of God.

Anyone here Kundalini awakened?

Chris
Namaste

Ruis
8th May 2010, 22:12
The struggle to rid one self of the Ego(mind) is really a waste of time.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99pjDWwccSo&feature=related

Ruis
8th May 2010, 22:24
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrZmqIvlPNk&feature=related

greybeard
8th May 2010, 23:08
Thanks Ruis for the videos

One of my friends went down to a Satsang in London last year and was very impressed.
I have a DVD of his.

(The struggle to rid one self of the Ego(mind) is really a waste of time.)

Thats a pradox in that we dont actually have an ego its just a thought. Identification with the "me" story in the head.
Transcending is not a struggle, not forcing, just a change in the way that life is perceived, but that takes time until it doesn't.

Chris

greybeard
9th May 2010, 10:55
In essence the ego is a separation device.
Before we begin to wake to the majesty of God within all, there is me and my wants needs desires there is little understanding of Gods will for us.
The first two comandments are all that is needed.

So to begin with there is the individual looking to survive through getting needs met.
Then perhaps a relationship begins and now there is an "us" thats a step forward in aligning to God's will.
My this and that has become ours. Sharing happens.
Then if we are fortunate, there is the realization that we are the totality all of it.

Bible says that not even a sparrow can fall without God knowing.
Scientist have now proved that the smallest blade of grass is linked to the furthest star.
The first commandment is about Loving God.
The second is about loving others.
You cant love God without loving others.
To be clear that does not mean condoning all actions, discernment is required but everything that is supportive of spiritual evolution is welcomed and assisted where possible.

Nature of which we are a part is about loving.

There is scientific evidence that flowers grows more beautiful by being loved.
Vegitables grow healthier, bigger by being loved, they seem to be aware of consciousness paying attention to their needs.
This is for our common good.
We have a relationship with nature we could not survive without it.
Every relationship needs nurtured or it will wilt and not reach its full potential.
A healthy environment needs to be created for anything to reach its full potential.
The plant reaches out to the sun for nourishment, it needs also good earth for nutrition and rain to release that nutrition.
No thing survives without being in the right enviroment.
We cannot continue to accept what nature gives freely without giving back.
We have selfishly drained this earth and now face the consequences of our action and inaction.

No man is an island we all need the other and in the bonding there is the realization that we are One.
That is the way God set it up.
Everything has male and female elements and it meeting the needs of these elements in a healthy balanced way we are aligning to the will of God.
The flowers need the bee, everything is co-dependant and when thats is realized a healthy relationship is formed and blossoms.
God wants us to be all we can be without fear or limitation.

Enlightenment is the supreme act of love in that "dying" for ones fellow man lifts and benefits all. Jesus said there is nothing more noble.
The Self does not die but the ego is dissolved back into source and what remains is the fullness of human potential in this world.
One is truly aligned with and bonded with God yet retains awareness.
The Ocean always welcomes the river.

GOD IS LOVE

With love
Chris

Ruis
9th May 2010, 22:19
If we can connect with the divine within then the searching for the self ends.

greybeard
9th May 2010, 23:49
If we can connect with the divine within then the searching for the self ends.

Thats the beginning of the end Ruis.
There are different levels of connection and some are temporary in that the connection comes and goes.
The enlightened ones are permanently One with God.
Truth is there are very few people in the world who are enlightened. If it was that simple everyone would be enlightened.
The grace of God is needed.
Chris

truthseekerdan
10th May 2010, 03:29
There are many paths you can take, all of which will guide you into letting go of all sense of separation resulting in ego transcendence and enlightenment. Let's look through a number of options and see if we can find something that resonates with you. Mix and match based on your own intuition and experiences.

First and foremost, the ego is not something to push against, struggle with, or overcome. The ego is not something to be killed. That mindset will only set you up for more struggle with the ego sneaking in the back door. Struggle, resistance, fighting, and killing will not work. You don't defeat darkness with darkness. You transcend darkness by bringing in the light. This is a critical point.

Who is it that wants to kill the ego? Why, the ego, of course!

The ever present awareness has no problem with the ego being there. It is as it is.

So, how do we transcend the ego?

Surrender all the juice you get out of any egoic activity... being right, thinking, dreaming, wishing, judging, desiring, being angry, feeling guilty, etc.

Read books by Eckhart Tolle, David Hawkins, and Ariel Bravy.

Be fully Present as often as possible.

Learn about the ego as thoroughly as possible. Notice and learn to detect every single time the ego tries to grab its hands on you. This way, when you notice it has returned, you can surrender it again.

Don't fight it. Don't put up resistance. What you resist persists. Instead, Love the ego and the role it plays in your life, giving you the illusions of duality and opposites. Love it, accept it, and let it go.

Release all attachments and aversions.

See everything in a state of perfection. The world is perfect, just as it is. People are perfect, just as they are. This is not a judgment. This is a statement of truth.

Do not try to improve anything, including yourself. See yourself moving from a state of perfection to a state of perfection. It's about self-acceptance coupled with continuous expansion and spiritual growth.

A dying flower is not an imperfect flower, but a perfect dying flower. It is first a perfect seed, then a perfect set of roots and stem, then a perfect growing flower, then a perfect blossoming flower, then a perfect withering flower, then a perfect dead flower.

Each state is a place of perfection. Do not judge anything, call it good or bad or right or wrong. It is as it is, in a state of absolute perfection.

Higher does not imply better. A brick on the ninth floor is no better than a brick on the second floor. Flying birds are not inherently better than crawling reptiles. Higher, but not better. A higher level of consciousness is higher than a lower level, but not better.

The world is not imperfect. War, famine, disease, and all the stuff the ego sees as wrong are not bad, for bad doesn't exist. Only perfection exists. All suffering is a result of ego-sponsored actions. It's certainly not in alignment with one's higher self, but the perfection is in the process nonetheless.

Instead of seeing the world as a place of good and bad, see it as an opportunity to create whatever you want, to create yourself to be whomever you wish to be. Lifetime after lifetime, you get to keep choosing who you want to be. In this sense, this world provides the perfect opportunity to create anything. All creations are perfect. All creators are perfect. Creators and their creations are one and the same. There is no duality.

See yourself as the infinite consciousness that you are. You are not your body. You are not your mind.

In fact, they are not even your body or your mind. They do not belong to you. You are consciousness which is temporarily using this body to experience that which we call a lifetime.

The body is no more yours than the air that is currently in your lungs. In just a moment you will breathe the air out and inhale new air. In a moment, this body will fall to the ground and you will select another. The body is not yours. It belongs to existence, just like the birds and the trees.

Meditate. Spend time watching the mind in action. Notice how it works. Notice how it tries to take credit for everything you do. Surrender away any claim to "I" or "me". There is no you, only an egoic illusion that such a "you" exists.

Surrender all resistances to Love. Any negative feeling, ANY negative experience you have is directly a result of some sort of egoic identification.

With ego, good and bad exist.

Without ego, only Love exists. Everything is in a state of total perfection.

Be patient with yourself. Be kind and loving to yourself. Transcending the ego is one of the most challenging things you could possibly do.

Devote yourself to Love.

Let go of fears and begin leaning on them and plowing through. Notice that they're worse in your mind than in real life. The bark is worse than the bite.

Check out A Course in Miracles. It details a great process to help you realize that all your thoughts are illusory, they don't mean anything, and they're all a result of the ego. It will guide you to realizing deeper truths within.

Nothing you perceive is the ultimate reality. It is but a fraction of reality, and only your distorted viewpoint. Give up the need to label, categorize, judge, or rate anything in life and just look at it as it is. It is as it is. It is.

Anything you put after the statement "I am" or "It is" is a mental interpretation created by the mind.

Who are you? Spend time deeply contemplating this question. "Who am I?" Are you your name? Body? Thoughts? Mind? Emotions? Beliefs? If any of those change, are you still you? What is the "you" that is always there?

Start listening to your body. What do you feel? I don't mean what emotional state are you in, but how does food feel when you put your hand over it? How does the energy feel in the room? Can you detect the presence of others? If you slowly bring your palms closer and farther apart, can you detect the energy between them? The heat? The warmth? The magnetic attraction or repulsion? When your mind thinks a thought, do you have a good feeling about it or a bad feeling? Learn to trust your intuition. Follow it.

Realize that the intellect can never know Truth. Truth can only come from within. It is vast, infinite, beyond words. How can you describe Love using words? You can describe the feelings associated with Love, but you can verbalize Love itself. :wub:

truthseekerdan
10th May 2010, 03:46
The same applies to Truth. It must be experienced. Whenever it passes through a person, it is subject to their own personality, ego, worldly perspective, and level of consciousness. Thus it is filtered to a greater or lesser extent. Always. The way to access pure Truth and knowingness is to quiet the mind and raise your own level of consciousness to open yourself up to receiving Truths from within.

Open and balance your chakras. Study the affirmations that go with each chakra, internalize them, and live them. They provide an excellent blueprint for living higher level Truths and subsequently opening yourself up to higher levels of consciousness.

Learn to be lived by something other than the mind. Be lived by God. Be lived by Love. Follow your heart's truest desires.

Give up all self-doubt. ALL self-doubt. No exception. It's based in ego, fear, time, and what if's.

Drop all hypothetical situations. They're all based in ego. "What if everyone did this?" Well everyone's not doing that so it's a stupid question.

Realize that the fact that I called that a stupid question is a judgment as well. Realize that it's only stupid with the condition that given what you want to achieve, which is a state of no ego, thinking in hypothetical does not serve you. That is closer to the truth than a statement than something is stupid.

Start merging with life. Merge with other people. Merge with animals. Merge with plants. Merge with the stars and the sun. Merge with the earth. Merge with the universe. Merge with your house. Merge with the wind.

Instead of saying "There's Bob", instead say "There I am, being Bob." You are the infinite consciousness that is everyone, is everywhere. There is nowhere where you are not.

Think of yourself as energy. Your soul is kind of like your etheric body, similar to your aura. Your aura is most dense in the physical location where your physical body is, yet your aura extends infinitely far in every direction. It gets thinner and thinner, less and less dense, until it finds another "person" or being and then becomes more dense. The universe is simply sections of more or less dense energy. It is really all one connected energy. There is no place where the energy is not.

It is like the air in your house between two rooms. It's all the same air. There's no definite dividing line between where this air ends and that air begins. It all flows into itself. Yes, the air in the kitchen may smell like food and the air in the garage may smell like cars, but it's all the same air. It's simply adopted different characteristics.

Bodies are the same way. It's all made from the same "stuff", the same energy. They've simply adopted different characteristics.

Different notes on a musical scale are all musical notes. They just have different characteristics. In truth, each note is part of a larger group called musical notes, which is part of a larger group called sound vibration, which is part of a larger group called vibration, which is just another name for energy, which is another name for your soul, which is just a higher vibrational frequency version of your physical body, which you perceive as you.

The musical notes are you. Everything is you. You and I are one. We are all one.

See things as together. See the unity in All That Is.

Drop the ego's need to separate, break apart, divide, judge, criticize. That's all illusion. It really and truly is.

Constantly feel yourself living in a state of Oneness. Continuously open yourself up to the Divine. Feel your connection to All That Is.

Start living your life this way and your ego is gone.

:)

Ego? What ego? :wink:

Oh, one more important point.

Release the need to get to a certain point by a certain date.

By doing so, you're actually strengthening the ego. The ego operates by setting goals out in the future and trying to achieve them in order to feel successful. This is a very yang activity.

You're basically telling yourself, "I am not enlightened, but one day I will be."

No, you already ARE enlightened. There's nowhere to get to. The only thing to do is release the ego Now, in this moment, over and over again.

The sun is already shining, but the clouds of the ego are in the way. The trick is to remove the clouds and allow the light that is ALREADY THERE to shine through.

You don't get to the state of not having an ego, where there is no time, by setting a date and getting there through the ego, by traveling through time. You don't transcend duality by going through duality. You transcend it by rising above it and reaching out towards nonduality and Oneness.

Adopt a more yin attitude towards spiritual growth. You release the ego's attachment to desires and allow yourself to be LIVED by God, to be LIVED by Life, to be LIVED by Love.

Allow yourself to be exactly where you are now and to be guided by spiritual will which will always be in alignment with the highest good.

Forgive others.

Forgive yourself.

Forgive God.

Don't believe a word you think.

What's the fastest way to let go of the ego?

Drop it. NOW. Surrender all sense of separation.

Done. End of story.

It's truly that simple. Perhaps not easy, but simple.

If Truth was complicated, everyone would get it.

Just let go. :wave:

greybeard
11th May 2010, 21:22
The whole thing is really simple. ( this is me talking to me smiling)
All enlightened ones say basically the same thing.

Enlightenment is a an egoless nonduality state brought about by the grace of God.

Therefore if I want to know about that state it is necessary or me to listen to some One in that state. No theory just ultimate truth.
Not the spiritual circus which talks about it but is not it.

The LOVE of God is not emotional love it is just --- LOVE of The One with out a second. None other.


Namaste
Chris

greybeard
12th May 2010, 19:03
Our form is naught but atoms in movement of the same sacredness as the grain of sand or the distant star. All form has an alloted life span.
What we truly are is formless awareness and eternal.
Ego !! who needs it?
We are beyond that.

There is the thought that we cant survive without an ego.
On the Wayne Dyer film posted on the forum he points out we spent nine month in the womb with all our needs met without us having to do anything.
Unfortunately when we get out its like. Thanks God you did a great job, now im in charge.

Wayne also points out that the ego's call is MORE.
Always in competition to be best to be superior to be special -- always MORE.
Inflated by success deflated by failure.
Up down like a yo yo, just a roller coaster, what an existence.
Freedom from ego is freedom from fear, free to just be as you are, free to realize your own potential.

In answer to question would you not be less without an ego to spur you on, is competition not healthy?

My hobby was sailing I raced 505 high performance racing dinghies.
I loved sailing.
I practiced, spent time reading books by Olympic Gold sailors.
I learned as much as I could from others more experienced than I.
I became a champion, I never in my mind competed against anyone, I respected all, I just went out and sailed to the best of my ability.
Moment by moment I lived in oneness with the wind, the sea, the boat, winning was just a fringe benefit.
The real thing was the moment the boat took off on the crest of a wave, spray everywhere, an amazing experience.

Those who were more successful than I, in any endeavor, will say. "I loved what I was doing, I got in the zone"
Thats the secret of it and its effortless, because there is no ego in the moment telling you that you cant.

I guess enlightenment it much the same.
No limits.

Chris

grace
12th May 2010, 21:24
Those who were more successful than I, in any endeavor, will say. "I loved what I was doing, I got in the zone"
Thats the secret of it and its effortless, because there is no ego in the moment telling you that you cant.

I guess enlightenment it much the same.
No limits.

Chris

wow chris, i really feel you on this post. "being in the zone" is the perfect way to describe that place that you go... and it is the same place for every activity. I go there when i play music, and i know through learning from myself and playing with other people that the way someone plays music without their ego is infinitely more beautiful than if they practiced for a thousand years but aren't in "the zone". it's the same for everything else tho, talking, walking, when a person is there, everything flows.

Beren
12th May 2010, 21:41
True love wipes out fear. We need to practice it more. Until one day we are forever united with our Creator.
It`s like a game, they spray you with fear and then they laugh, but when you ,in your own defense ,kick them back with a load of love ,then YOU smile... and whoever smiles last ,his one is merrier ! :p

Love ,love till evil falls apart!

:p

greybeard
12th May 2010, 21:59
wow chris, i really feel you on this post. "being in the zone" is the perfect way to describe that place that you go... and it is the same place for every activity. I go there when i play music, and i know through learning from myself and playing with other people that the way someone plays music without their ego is infinitely more beautiful than if they practiced for a thousand years but aren't in "the zone". it's the same for everything else tho, talking, walking, when a person is there, everything flows.


Hi Grace thanks for your post
I know exactly what you are saying.
I play bass guitar and sing.
When I was in my teens I was playing one night and it was better by far than my usual efforts. It came to mind that I had no idea what note I was going to play next it was just happening by itself. I was just watching my fingers move and listening to the result. The thought also came was I playing the bass or was it playing me?
I knew nothing of spirituality at the time but it was what is called a peak moment - a realization.
Its up to me to put the time in learning a song, practicing doing all that needs to be done, but when it comes to playing and singing most times it just happens.
If I try I mess it up.
I tried to explain to the guys in the band they just laughed.

greybeard
12th May 2010, 22:03
True love wipes out fear. We need to practice it more. Until one day we are forever united with our Creator.
It`s like a game, they spray you with fear and then they laugh, but when you ,in your own defense ,kick them back with a load of love ,then YOU smile... and whoever smiles last ,his one is merrier ! :p

Love ,love till evil falls apart!


:p

Im smiling and loving, Beren
There is no situation that enough love cannot change for the better.
Thanks
Love
Chris

Jan Rodrigo
12th May 2010, 22:52
Be who we are infinite love

Heartsong
12th May 2010, 23:20
I think the ego is a necessity for functioning in this world.
Ego gives impetus to the effort that it takes to learn, pro-create, make a difference, or right an injustice.
Without a sense of duality, one couldn't sense injustice, or value education, or make a better mouse trap. Without a feeling of power (self) one could not act to balance duality.
Releasing the ego is not for people who would change this world - or change a diaper.

greybeard
13th May 2010, 04:21
I think the ego is a necessity for functioning in this world.
Ego gives impetus to the effort that it takes to learn, pro-create, make a difference, or right an injustice.
Without a sense of duality, one couldn't sense injustice, or value education, or make a better mouse trap. Without a feeling of power (self) one could not act to balance duality.
Releasing the ego is not for people who would change this world - or change a diaper.

Dear Heartsong

I have posted two links
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_R._Hawkins
http://www.veritaspub.com/index.php?page=about

Perhaps ypu wil have a look.
Dr Hawkins is enlightened in an ego less, desire less, non-duality state of enlightenment and gets an amazing amount of work done for his fellow man.

Regards
Chris

Jan Rodrigo
13th May 2010, 10:05
yes i do feel chris that the ego is there as a Guide program to the matrix ,it is one of the biggest traps to take the heart out of commission, as unconditional love being the key to all things ,as we are self are infinite love
the ego is like the naughty child with in and can be guided by love all so the ego is the balance to aree true self as are all so called bad things one could not exsist with out the other ,but that is until we as consciousness understand we can break any laws writin by the matrix

greybeard
14th May 2010, 10:18
Yes we are here NOW and have to deal with what we find in front of ourselves
through surrender, right action, whatever works. We are supposed to act as though it is all very real and enjoy the Cosmic Dance.
With Love and respect to all who visit and contribute here.
Chris

greybeard
14th May 2010, 10:34
There is no greater gift that you can give to another
than that of self-realization "


The moment we take up a position we are in duality.
The ego loves positionality because inherent in this is the judgment that I am right and therfore somthing is wrong, even when we are siding with something that is apparently right.

We are in opposition to somthing that is.
There is that and our point of view.

We dont condone something or reject something, nether are we neutral,which is also a belief system.

Its a question of non-attachment.
It is as it is.

When we are in a nondualistic state right action will occur which is witnessed. by Self.

Jesus said.
"Of myself I do nothing it is the Father within that is the doer" or words to that effect.

When our personal will is surrendered to God then right action naturally follows.

We are at a very interesting time in the evolution of mankind.
Hawkins says that the chances of being enlightened are 1000 times greater than ever before in our history.

By his reckoning there are thirty three in that state at the moment.
That is a quote from some years back so hopefully there are many more now, our future as a race depends on it.

The ego has been the cause of all of the misery in the history of man kind,

An enlightened being is only capable of loving action -- sometimes tough love but love non the less.

It is not necessary for everyone to be enlightened but those who are balance negativity. More enlightened one less negativity till all negativity is overcome,
fear is redundant then and great creative work becomes possible.

Great athletes, painters, musicians talk of the "ZONE" they perform/create in that state. In the Zone there is only performing/creating there is no person only the single minded action.
Inspired means in Spirit.

Chris

truthseekerdan
14th May 2010, 11:56
True words indeed, thank you Chris. :)

Without ego, there is no independence of thinking, which means you as an individual would not exist. You would not be able to have the experience of a unique personality along with personal memories and choices in this universe. So it would be pointless to do away with the ego since Spirit created ego to express and experience itself. The key to spirituality is not to get rid of the ego, but it is to become not limited by it. Spirituality is about realizing Spirit and harmonizing ego with it. We become One and All.

Spirituality is not about power over anyone. It is about self-empowerment, about power with everyone. The ego of a spiritual person is not a problem. It is an essential part of the human system, created expressly by The Creator of all life in order for it to experience self-consciousness from an infinite number of viewpoints. Infinite Being is the all-encompassing consciousness from which the universe was created. Everything in the universe is made of consciousness. Each snowflake is unique, so is each person.

Dan ~ :wub:

greybeard
16th May 2010, 05:39
The egoic thoughts just appear, I did not ask for them.
Then the problem ocours if I identify with them.
They can be very seductive.
If I buy into them, make them my thoughts and act upon them then karma arises.
I have choice, free will.
If I realise what is happening, higher mind clicks in and I can make a quality choice of action or non action. Consequences are then of a different nature.

Classic example is Ghandi.
A man of integrity, non violence, humility, yet he overcame immense odds to free India from British rule.
Chris

Joslin
16th May 2010, 08:51
Hi there

Its come to my understanding that there are a great many people visiting this forum who are not spiritualist, and some that are do not have the full knowledge on the subject. I find the every time the term Ego is being used, its used without clraification as to what it means every where in all the threads its used. Most people who are not spritualist, and even those who are spiritualist are not the same type of spiritualist on this specific kind subject.

The orignal general global understanding of the Term EGO, stems from Freud's definition, and those who have no idea of this new sprititual use of the turm which means something entirely and absolutley different, will, without doubt, make any new commer to this forum looking of knowledge and truth of what going on in the world to be utterly confusing, and make absolutley no realistic sence, as im prety sure new comers will not prodominantly have that understanding.
And i have to say, i was one them, and i didnt just find it confusing, it imideately made me feel that, if this was the use of Freuds Ego term this forum is all talking about, the use utterly ilogical, and padantic, and that they havent got a clue what there talking about. And my innitial responce and feeling was.... "what a bunch of crack pots, do i really want to continue with this forum, project avalon, and camelot"...

So, I think it may be a great idea if all you guys who understand all the ins and outs of this Spiritual diversity, to put an added brackets of the meaning of Ego next to it, for example: Ego-[epigenetic overlay/ Edge God Out] This way no confusion, no chance of peeps who know the original use of the term, won't be thinking your all crazy.

And we dont want to scare peeps away, especially on any grounds that project a misonomer that were all crazy, because without doubt, there are large percentage of peeps here who are not spiritualist's.
Any argument that anyone who wants to join or view the threads should find out what it means is irelevant, because most people perseptions are based on first impressions, and those who will not uderstand will most likely have the first impression of: WTF im out of here!!!

Kind Regards
Joslin

greybeard
16th May 2010, 09:18
Hi Joslin
What you say is valid.
From time to time on the thread there is an explanation of the difference between healthy self esteem which is a quality of the ego as defined by Freud and that is good.

Spiritual ego is a different subject.
Spiritualism is also a different subject from spiritual.
Spiritual is the quest to find Truth. One question might be "What am I ?"
Im not of any religion.
Possibly the number of "Hits" are an indication that people in general are attracted by the content.
Those who will, will and those who wont, wont.
Why worry.
Thanks for your post Joslin.
The thread was first started on Avalon so there are good contributions there with various points of view..
http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18206

Perhaps the signature that I use is helpful.
Regards
Chris

Ps the the word ego was in use in spiritual text long before Freud put a different definition on it.
Ch

truthseekerdan
18th May 2010, 05:27
Found this quote, and thought to share it here Chris.

"Man comes out of unity into diversity,
The ego appears, has to be recognized,
Then transcended and return to Unity
In a higher octave of consciousness."

--Karlfried Graf von Durckheim

greybeard
18th May 2010, 20:41
Found this quote, and thought to share it here Chris.

"Man comes out of unity into diversity,
The ego appears, has to be recognized,
Then transcended and return to Unity
In a higher octave of consciousness."

--Karlfried Graf von Durckheim

Sometimes one has to experience havoc in ones life before help from God is genuinely sought
ie hitting rock bottom.
Then there is an awareness of ego, (Edge God Out) it is recognized as being separate from what one truly is.

When ego is seen for what it is (dysfunctional action) then through that awareness it is transcended.
We return to source the "wiser" and at a higher octave of consciousness.

Dysfunctional action, simply, is an act that does not serve us or others highest good.

The ego is not capable of serving the highest good of an other far less unconditional love.
Every loving thought and action weakens the ego.
That includes acts of forgiveness.
The ego loves to have an enemy. Lol

Chris

greybeard
18th May 2010, 21:09
With thanks to Mudra who posted this on the original ego thread at
Avalon.

The ignorance of not knowing who we really are sets the stage for a batle between " good " and " bad " .
For ignorance of our true self breeds fear , fear breeds the need to control , and the need to control starts the strugle for power .
When we started our journey onto this plane we faced ignorance and thus dichotomies. We only have a vague idea of who we really are in essence. “Not knowing who we are” is the incentive behind change, growth and expansion in our universe.
The end of your journey will be that you have become larger than good and evil, light and dark. You will have created a third energy, the Christ energy, which embraces and transcends both.

Your earthly cycle of lives ends when the game of duality no longer has a hold on you. It is essential to the dualistic game that you identify yourself with a particular position in the playfield of polarities. You identify yourself with being poor or rich, famous or humble, man or woman, hero or villain. It really doesn’t matter that much which part you are playing. As long as you feel one with the actor on the stage, duality still has a firm grip on you.

This is not wrong of course. In a sense it was meant to be that way. You were meant to forget about your true self. To experience all the aspects of duality, you were meant to narrow your consciousness down to a particular role in the drama of earth life.

And you played it well. You got so caught up with your roles that you totally forgot about the aim and purpose of going through this cycle of lives to begin with. You were so forgetful about yourself that you took the games and dramas of duality to be the only reality there is.

Characteristics of the duality game

1) Your emotional life is essentially unstable.

There is no emotional anchor present, since you are always in the “up” or “down” side of a particular mood.

2) You are intensely involved with the outer world.

It is very important to you how other people judge you. Your self-esteem depends on what the outer world (society or your loved ones) mirrors back to you about who you are.

3) You have strong opinions about what’s good and what’s bad. Being judgmental gives you a sense of security. Life is so well organized when one divides actions, thoughts or people into right and wrong.

Common to all these characteristics is that in all you do or feel, you are not really there. Your consciousness resides in the outer layers of your being where it is driven by fear-oriented patterns of thought and behavior.

By going within and making contact with the hidden, suppressed parts of yourself, you are becoming more present. Your consciousness is rising above the fear-motivated patterns of thought and behavior that you have taken for granted for such a long time. It is taking responsibility for itself.

Characteristics of releasing duality

1) You listen to the language of your soul which speaks to you through your feelings.

2) You act upon this language and create the changes your soul wishes you to make.

3) You value quiet time alone, for only in silence can you hear the whispers of your soul.

4) You question the authority of thought patterns or rules of behavior which block the free expression of your true inspiration and aspirations.

The turning point in letting go of duality

Your earthly cycle of lives draws to a close when your consciousness is able to hold all the experiences of duality in its hand, while remaining centered and fully present. As long as you identify with one aspect of duality rather than another (with light as opposed to dark, with rich as opposed to poor etc.), your consciousness is on a swing.

This center is the exit point for the karmic cycle. The predominant feeling tones in this center are stillness, compassion and quiet joy. Greek philosophers had premonitions of this state which they called ataraxia: imperturbability.

Judgment and fear are the energies that most take you off-center. As you release these energies more and more, you become more quiet and open inside. You truly enter another world, another plane of consciousness.

Releasing the grip of duality takes time. Unraveling all the layers of darkness (un-consciousness) is a gradual process. Yet once you embark upon this road, the road to the inner Self, you are slowly distancing yourself from the game of duality. When you have tasted the true meaning of ataraxia, the turning point is taken. When you have felt the silent yet all-pervading joy of simply being with yourself, you will know that that is what you’ve been looking for all along. You will go inward time and again to experience this peace inside.

You will not shy away from worldly enjoyment. But you will have found an anchor of divinity within yourself, and you will experience the world and all its beauty from that state of bliss.

When there is peace and joy in your heart, the things and people you meet will give you peace and joy.

From the Lightworkers series : the teachings of Yeshua
http://www.jeshua.net/

The entire story of the ego stems entirely upon not knowing who we really are .
We are divine sparks of Light animated by Love that has no bounderies . The moment we experience this the ego fades away and we step out of the realm of dichotomies ,linear time , judgement and fear. The ego may have served us during our journey out of ignorance but once self realization is attained we will have outgrown it and only pure Love and compassion will remain.

greybeard
20th May 2010, 13:09
Anything that is transient and of form is not who we truly are.
We are formless, manifest into form for the brief period of this assumed identity.

We are not the ego because it is changing its point of view all the time, however we are responsible for what it does, so to speak.

Its not an enemy just self centered.


We are all born into this life with one, it comes with the body and if we do not wish to return here and wish to move on then we need to transcend it, wish it well and surrender it to our creator.

We will not have a harmonious peaceful world whilst we are ego driven.

The ego is materialistic and uses force where ever necessary to get what it wants, Self is Power and dosent need to.
Gravity dosent make the apple fall its just a natural consequence of its power.

Gandi freed India from the British without force.
The book "Power versus Force" by Dr David Hawkins is an eye opener an Aha!!! moment

All wars ( and they have been going since forever it seems) have been fought from the egoic point of I want. This will continue unless enough people have a raised spiritual energy.

One definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting different results.
We need to begin to act different to be different, to get a different world, or it will be the same old story. ie self destruct.

Disagreement tends to come from. " I'm right therefore your wrong"
Its ok for people to have different points of view, I don't mind people disagreeing with me, Id prefer they are not disagreeable, which is a different ball game altogether.
We can live in harmony with our differences, can we not?

.

I may well be wrong but I see spiritual evolution as a process.

A person may come from apathy into anger, that is a step forward, pride may follow. There may develop an interest in self improvement and genuine pride of achievement, positive thinking books may be read, there is a realization that success is only possible with the assistance of others, spiritual search may start.
Bravery may conquer fear, eventually there is the realization that bravery and fear are largely emotions-- points of perception, then they come progressively redundant as they are seen as duality and really meaningless, an arbitrary viewpoint. One mans ceiling another mans floor. IE. they mean different things to different people. A lion tamer might be OK with lions and frightened of mice.

There is the realization that breathing happens by it self and many other things too, so one just does things without the need for self esteem, doing is a natural function,

The ego can make the simplest things into a big deal, look at me Im special stuff, look at what I did.
The ego restricts, sets limits where there are none.
The ego is just the buying into,identifying with the "Me story in our head" all the I am this I am that, I believe this I believe that.

All belief systems and constructs change over time, what we truly are is constant and unchanging, the presence within our mortal coil.
Eventually we evolve to the point where we realize that we are the in-dweller, the presence within, pure awareness.



All that said one has to go through the process starting where they are at.
Be kind to all life including your own
Chris

rosie
20th May 2010, 14:01
greybeard, I so wish that my 16 year old son could read your words and learn from them. Boy, talk about ego!

We raise our children to be proud, strong and true, but I am finding it does build a huge ego, and because they are not at the age where spirituality is not on their minds, they could not care one bit about anyone but themselves.

Ego's are the driving force in this life. Ego's are essential for growth, both physical and spiritual. And at the moment, my house seems to have a very big ego living within the walls, but I am loving every minute of it.

in love & light :wub:

truthseekerdan
20th May 2010, 16:13
Thank you, Rosie for sharing with us. :)
I can personally relate to what you described. Young folks in this reality developed an "ego", that nothing or nobody else matters; i.e. no respect, humility, and so on... sad :(

Many times during a human life span we feel our Ego is necessary so we are able to function fully as intelligent beings and to deal with the real world. But having these feelings also inhibits us and makes us fear.

Having an Ego separates us from the universe and from God, this act of separation makes the fear of loss. It is this fear of loss that makes us want control. Control of the universe and everything in it – if we cannot control it we may lose it. The Ego stops us trusting in the universe.

It is Ego that is stopping people experiencing the delights of what the universe has to offer. Without Ego we can become unlimited and boundless. We can find new powers, new creativity, new opportunities for growth, for love, for harmony, peace and joy in our lives that before we let go of our Ego we could not begin to conceive. But how do you get rid of Ego. You have to realize that you are operating through fear, fear of loss.

We have not been taught that what is simple is what is right. The universe operates simply. Balance and harmony in the natural world, in the animal world. Any world that does not have Ego, operates very simply. It seems the goal of spiritual beliefs to return us to our connection to that universe, to our Eternity so that we, too, can live simply, in balance and harmony with all that is. If indeed this is the goal, the purpose of that goal, the purpose of letting go of ego, is to also let go of the constant fear in which we all live.

The removal of ego is a spiritual idea. It takes the form of real world experiences. God is us and we are God's operatives. These experiences that God gives us are important not so much for what they are but more for what they teach. And one version of what they teach is that they are there to allow us to shed our ego and connect with God. And one reason we need to connect with God is to allow us to let go of fear. And one reason we need to let go of fear is that it is fear that separates us from each other and in so doing, keeps us from finding ourselves.

Love and blessings, :wub:

Dan

greybeard
21st May 2010, 07:57
greybeard, I so wish that my 16 year old son could read your words and learn from them. Boy, talk about ego!

We raise our children to be proud, strong and true, but I am finding it does build a huge ego, and because they are not at the age where spirituality is not on their minds, they could not care one bit about anyone but themselves.

Ego's are the driving force in this life. Ego's are essential for growth, both physical and spiritual. And at the moment, my house seems to have a very big ego living within the walls, but I am loving every minute of it.

in love & light :wub:

Hi Rosie
Hormones hormones hormones.
Teens have a lot to go through, not easy for them.
Kids arrive without an instruction book,
We do the best we can.
Self esteem is ok its healthy, it gets things done. Its not ego.

Be kind to your self.

Love Chris

greybeard
21st May 2010, 23:15
Ego - The False Center
From Beyond the Frontier of the Mind by Osho


The first thing to be understood is what ego is. A child is born. A
child
is born without any knowledge, any consciousness of his own self. And
when
a child is born the first thing he becomes aware of is not himself; the
first thing he becomes aware of is the other. It is natural, because the
eyes open outwards, the hands touch others, the ears listen to others,
the
tongue tastes food and the nose smells the outside. All these senses
open
outwards.

That is what birth means. Birth means coming into this world, the
world
of the outside. So when a child is born, he is born into this world. He
opens his eyes, sees others. 'Other' means the thou. He becomes aware of
the mother first. Then, by and by, he becomes aware of his own body.
That
too is the other, that too belongs to the world. He is hungry and he
feels
the body; his need is satisfied, he forgets the body.

This is how a child grows. First he becomes aware of you, thou, other,
and then by and by, in contrast to you, thou, he becomes aware of
himself.

This awareness is a reflected awareness. He is not aware of who he is.
He
is simply aware of the mother and what she thinks about him. If she
smiles,
if she appreciates the child, if she says, "You are beautiful," if she
hugs
and kisses him, the child feels good about himself. Now an ego is born.

Through appreciation, love, care, he feels he is good, he feels he is
valuable, he feels he has some significance.

A center is born.

But this center is a reflected center. It is not his real being. He
does
not know who he is; he simply knows what others think about him. And
this
is the ego: the reflection, what others think. If nobody thinks that he
is
of any use, nobody appreciates him, nobody smiles, then too an ego is
born:
an ill ego; sad, rejected, like a wound; feeling inferior, worthless.
This
too is the ego. This too is a reflection.

First the mother - and mother means the world in the beginning. Then
others will join the mother, and the world goes on growing. And the more
the world grows, the more complex the ego becomes, because many others'
opinions are reflected.

The ego is an accumulated phenomenon, a by-product of living with
others.
If a child lives totally alone, he will never come to grow an ego. But
that
is not going to help. He will remain like an animal. That doesn't mean
that
he will come to know the real self, no.

The real can be known only through the false, so the ego is a must.
One
has to pass through it. It is a discipline. The real can be known only
through the illusion. You cannot know the truth directly. First you have
to
know that which is not true. First you have to encounter the untrue.
Through that encounter you become capable of knowing the truth. If you
know
the false as the false, truth will dawn upon you.

Ego is a need; it is a social need, it is a social by-product. The
society
means all that is around you - not you, but all that is around you. All,
minus you, is the society. And everybody reflects. You will go to school
and
the teacher will reflect who you are. You will be in friendship with
other
children and they will reflect who you are. By and by, everybody is
adding
to your ego, and everybody is trying to modify it in such a way that you
don't become a problem to the society.

They are not concerned with you.

They are concerned with the society.

Society is concerned with itself, and that's how it should be.

They are not concerned that you should become a self-knower. They are
concerned that you should become an efficient part in the mechanism of
the
society. You should fit into the pattern. So they are trying to give you
an
ego that fits with the society. They teach you morality. Morality means
giving you an ego which will fit with the society. If you are immoral,
you
will always be a misfit somewhere or other. That's why we put criminals
in
the prisons - not that they have done something wrong, not that by
putting
them in the prisons we are going to improve them, no. They simply don't
fit. They are troublemakers. They have certain types of egos of which
the
society doesn't approve. If the society approves, everything is good.

One man kills somebody - he is a murderer.

And the same man in wartime kills thousands - he becomes a great hero.
The society is not bothered by a murder, but the murder should be
commited
for the society - then it is okay. The society doesn't bother about
morality.

Morality means only that you should fit with the society.

If the society is at war, then the morality changes.

If the society is at peace, then there is a different morality.

Morality is a social politics. It is diplomacy. And each child has to
be
brought up in such a way that he fits into the society, that's all.
Because
society is interested in efficient members. Society is not interested
that
you should attain to self-knowledge.

The society creates an ego because the ego can be controlled and
manipulated. The self can never be controlled or manipulated. Nobody has
ever heard of the society controlling a self - not possible.

And the child needs a center; the child is completely unaware of his
own
center. The society gives him a center and the child is by and by
convinced
that this is his center, the ego that society gives.

A child comes back to his home - if he has come first in his class,
the
whole family is happy. You hug and kiss him, and you take the child on
your
shoulders and dance and you say, "What a beautiful child! You are a
pride
to us." You are giving him an ego, a subtle ego. And if the child comes
home dejected, unsuccessful, a failure - he couldn't pass, or he has
just
been on the back bench - then nobody appreciates him and the child feels
rejected. He will try harder next time, because the center feels shaken.

Ego is always shaken, always in search of food, that somebody should
appreciate it. That's why you continuously ask for attention.

You get the idea of who you are from others.

It is not a direct experience.

It is from others that you get the idea of who you are. They shape
your
center. This center is false, because you carry your real center. That
is
nobody's business. Nobody shapes it.

You come with it.

You are born with it.

So you have two centers. One center you come with, which is given by
existence itself. That is the self. And the other center, which is
created
by the society, is the ego. It is a false thing - and it is a very great
trick. Through the ego the society is controlling you. You have to
behave
in a certain way, because only then does the society appreciate you. You
have to walk in a certain way; you have to laugh in a certain way; you
have
to follow certain manners, a morality, a code. Only then will the
society
appreciate you, and if it doesn't, you ego will be shaken. And when the
ego
is shaken, you don't know where you are, who you are.

The others have given you the idea.

That idea is the ego.

Try to understand it as deeply as possible, because this has to be
thrown.
And unless you throw it you will never be able to attain to the self.
Because you are addicted to the center, you cannot move, and you cannot
look at the self.

And remember, there is going to be an interim period, an interval,
when
the ego will be shattered, when you will not know who you are, when you
will not know where you are going, when all boundaries will melt.

You will simply be confused, a chaos.

Because of this chaos, you are afraid to lose the ego. But it has to
be
so. One has to pass through the chaos before one attains to the real
center.

And if you are daring, the period will be small.

If you are afraid, and you again fall back to the ego, and you again
start arranging it, then it can be very, very long; many lives can be
wasted.

There is a little more to read for the brave ones
http://deoxy.org/egofalse.htm

Originally posted by Mudra in the mists
pasted here with her kind permission.
Chris

grace
21st May 2010, 23:50
Ego - The False Center


Great piece, thank you thank you chris. but just one thing... you were discerning between self confidence and siritual ego in the beginning of the thread, and i was trying to put the words together to show how they are actually intertwined but couldn't string it together. "the false center" says it all though, in order to have self confidence you have to identify with that false center (i guess you could fake it but then it wouldn't be genuine self confidence). the "self" that you have confidence in is the same illusion of a self as the spiritual ego is. it's the same for the opposite as well, social fear or fear in the face of society is that same identification with that false self. so the way you deal with society is a big part of the process when releasing the ego.

greybeard
23rd May 2010, 12:09
Great piece, thank you thank you chris. but just one thing... you were discerning between self confidence and siritual ego in the beginning of the thread, and i was trying to put the words together to show how they are actually intertwined but couldn't string it together. "the false center" says it all though, in order to have self confidence you have to identify with that false center (i guess you could fake it but then it wouldn't be genuine self confidence). the "self" that you have confidence in is the same illusion of a self as the spiritual ego is. it's the same for the opposite as well, social fear or fear in the face of society is that same identification with that false self. so the way you deal with society is a big part of the process when releasing the ego.

Thanks for your contribution Grace.
It all appears true at each level of perception.
Ramana said that "The world you are trying to save doesn't exist"
Its down to perception.

Karma

The whole universe is karma
There are no accidents, everything happens because the totality brought it about.
The world is the perfect opportunity to undo negative karma.
Every moment we are given opportunity to choose that which is wholesome.
When we do so, our vibration rises and if it does so enough we will have escaped the wheel of seeming birth and death. This will be out last sojourn here and we move on to higher realms.
A paradox is that, as long as we think there is a personal me taking action we will return here again and again.
There is no personal me, only consciousness expressing and experiencing itself through this persona and form.
There is only One of us, hard though that might be to believe.
The moment we get hold of the the fact that we are not the doer then duality ceases - ego is transcended and earthly adventures no longer required.
Jesus said it loud and clear --- "Of myself I do nothing"

One Englishman became enlightened when he was out walking.
All of a sudden he was aware that his feet were walking all by them selves.
He took the thought further and had a very deep realization that every body function was just happening.

Ramesh Balsakar said.
Last thing at night, have a look through your day and see that all occurrences were not in isolation and therefore out with your control.
The only freedom we really have is to say yes or no to what has already happened.
We can change ourselves and our attitude then our perception changes and the world appears to change.

The state of enlightenment is extremely powerful, it dramatically raises changes the vibration of all for the higher good.
I think thats what the bible meant when it said that you must die to live. That dying for others is the highest action.
The transcending of, leading to the death of one ego uplifts the whole Universe.
Only the ego dies Awareness remains.

With love
Chris

shiva777
23rd May 2010, 20:27
there is so much confusion and distortion in spiritual and new agey teachings about the ego...

The EGO is the sum total of our thoughts,feelings,subconcious and concious minds.The ego is the sum total of ourselves that functions in daily life,that thinks,feels,talks.acts and so on...so the term "EGO" is a NEUTRAL term.it is used to refer to ourselves as a personality in daily life.So we are not trying to destroy our ego,we are trying to create a POSITIVE ego,one that thinks,feels,acts in a positive and harmonious way with our TRUE SPIRITUAL BEING.

When many teachings speak of getting rid of the ego they should be speaking of getting rid of the NEGATIVE ego ONLY.
The NEGATIVE EGO is our fear-based and seperative thinking.

Many spiritual practitioners who labor under the misconception that ALL ego is BAD and that anything to do with our ego we should avoid at all costs do not understand INTEGRATED AWAKENING.
THIS attitude in itself leads to a host of IMBALANCES and FRAGMENTATION.

On the Spiritual path of INTEGRATED MASTERY we are NOT trying to destroy our ego we are trying to heal it in to a positive,harmonious,balanced TOOL.In order to do this we need to overcome our NEGATIVE EGO which is our fear based and seperative thinking.

There is so much ESCAPISM in ancient spirtual teachings and new-agey thought that leads to superficial states of "awakening" because of this misconception that the ego needs to be destroyed.

greybeard
23rd May 2010, 22:12
there is so much confusion and distortion in spiritual and new agey teachings about the ego...

The EGO is the sum total of our thoughts,feelings,subconcious and concious minds.The ego is the sum total of ourselves that functions in daily life,that thinks,feels,talks.acts and so on...so the term "EGO" is a NEUTRAL term.it is used to refer to ourselves as a personality in daily life.So we are not trying to destroy our ego,we are trying to create a POSITIVE ego,one that thinks,feels,acts in a positive and harmonious way with our TRUE SPIRITUAL BEING.

When many teachings speak of getting rid of the ego they should be speaking of getting rid of the NEGATIVE ego ONLY.
The NEGATIVE EGO is our fear-based and seperative thinking.

Many spiritual practitioners who labor under the misconception that ALL ego is BAD and that anything to do with our ego we should avoid at all costs do not understand INTEGRATED AWAKENING.
THIS attitude in itself leads to a host of IMBALANCES and FRAGMENTATION.

On the Spiritual path of INTEGRATED MASTERY we are NOT trying to destroy our ego we are trying to heal it in to a positive,harmonious,balanced TOOL.In order to do this we need to overcome our NEGATIVE EGO which is our fear based and seperative thinking.

There is so much ESCAPISM in ancient spirtual teachings and new-agey thought that leads to superficial states of "awakening" because of this misconception that the ego needs to be destroyed.

Thanks for your input shiva777
We are at least partly in agreement.
The ego was useful as a survival mechanism.
There is no need to kill it as it is just a figment of the imagination all be it a very powerful one.
Just a thought.
Yes The EGO is the sum total of our thoughts,feelings,subconcious and concious minds.The ego is the sum total of ourselves that functions in daily life,that thinks,feels,talks.acts and so on...
It is the identification with the me story--- all about me.

The ego is neither good nor bad it just is as it is.
It is all down to energy spiritual vibration.
At lower levels the ego is very real and it can create havoc in ones life, perceiving enemies out there. Seeking revenge. Getting even. Being fearful.
At higher level the ego is virtually non existent - no fear, living in the moment enjoying life to the full.
You might be confusing healthy self esteem with ego, thats a function of higher self.
Language and labels mean different things to different people so it is very easy to talk at cross purposes and miss-understand.
Ramesh said -"If your spiritual belief is not working for you in this life what use is it?"

My ego is still work in progress but since I started very simple spiritual practices my mind has stopped giving me a hard time and I am free of fear.
Whatever works.
Regards
Chris

truthseekerdan
25th May 2010, 03:59
Letting go of Ego is a very hard lesson to learn. Very hard, I experience it myself. :) But despite its difficulty, it appears to be the only lesson if it is your goal to achieve peace. Or enlightenment. It is the only lesson if your goal is to reach that place where you can truly say: "I don't want to be better than you; I want to be better than me."

And so not only is letting the ego die a hard process, it is also a scary process. Very scary. But losing the ego is also a wonderful thing. Losing ego can bring us closer to our hearts. It can enable us to feel more than we have ever felt. It can enable us to see ourselves in a totally different way and in doing so, find new dimensions to ourselves. The loss of ego may give us the sense that we are living closer to our souls. Until we start the process of turning down and finally shutting off the voice of Ego, the voice of our hearts cannot be heard.

One way to start this process is to recognize when your Ego coming into play. Whether it is by you wanting to correct someone, explain that their views are incorrect (in your mind anyway), if you feel anger at someone for their actions towards you. Then acknowledge these feelings to yourself, be it confusion, anger, hatred, or frustration, what ever they may be. Just feel them flowing through your body. Do not act. Just feel. Stop yourself from reacting. From passing judgment. Just let it be. Gradually overtime the Ego will not be as strong and will start to loosen it's hold over your heart. This not only makes you aware of how often your Ego comes into play, it will also amaze you how quickly you start to feel different in yourself. How the peace within you grows as your Ego diminishes.

With Love and Blessings, :wub:

Dan

greybeard
25th May 2010, 07:46
Letting go of Ego is a very hard lesson to learn. Very hard, I experience it myself. :) But despite its difficulty, it appears to be the only lesson if it is your goal to achieve peace. Or enlightenment. It is the only lesson if your goal is to reach that place where you can truly say: "I don't want to be better than you; I want to be better than me."

And so not only is letting the ego die a hard process, it is also a scary process. Very scary. But losing the ego is also a wonderful thing. Losing ego can bring us closer to our hearts. It can enable us to feel more than we have ever felt. It can enable us to see ourselves in a totally different way and in doing so, find new dimensions to ourselves. The loss of ego may give us the sense that we are living closer to our souls. Until we start the process of turning down and finally shutting off the voice of Ego, the voice of our hearts cannot be heard.

One way to start this process is to recognize when your Ego coming into play. Whether it is by you wanting to correct someone, explain that their views are incorrect (in your mind anyway), if you feel anger at someone for their actions towards you. Then acknowledge these feelings to yourself, be it confusion, anger, hatred, or frustration, what ever they may be. Just feel them flowing through your body. Do not act. Just feel. Stop yourself from reacting. From passing judgment. Just let it be. Gradually overtime the Ego will not be as strong and will start to loosen it's hold over your heart. This not only makes you aware of how often your Ego comes into play, it will also amaze you how quickly you start to feel different in yourself. How the peace within you grows as your Ego diminishes.

With Love and Blessings, :wub:

Dan

Yes Dan you are speaking from the heart.
No one said it wold be easy and we are pulled by energies we are unaware of.
Its a full moon in UK just now LOL

So much emphasis is put on the intellect by society that we are conditioned to strive to know more, its less we need.
Dr Hawkins in map of consciousness says that mind will only take you so far then it becomes a barrier to further progress.
The "fast track" to enlightenment is set out in his book "Discovery of the presence of God / devotional non duality"


Description of the book...

This, the sixth book in a progressive series by the author, finalizes and further clarifies the true nature and core of the condition termed “Enlightenment.” Although it draws on consciousness research for explanation and contextualization, it is primarily an instruction manual for the serious spiritual devotee and reveals information that is known only by those who have transcended the ego to reach Divine Realization.

This is the inner route from the self to the Self, and the descriptions of the progressive states are devoted to the reader’s own Illumination.

The subjective states of the mystic have been of great interest but historically never have been clarified to the degree presented in this semi-autobiographical account that also provides the means by which to identify their rare occurrence and thus describe the core characteristics of Spiritual Truth.

Devoid of ecclesiastical doctrine or religious belief systems, the pristine essence of all spiritual Truth is revealed in its purity with unprecedented clarity. It becomes clear that to truly “know” is to “be” rather than to “know about.” Why all of Dr. Hawkins’ books begin and end with “Gloria in Excelsis Deo!” becomes apparent.

publisher
http://www.veritaspub.com/

AMAZON MIGHT HAVE CHEAPER ONES.


With Love
Chris

greybeard
25th May 2010, 21:58
I thought I would put this here rather than on Stardust aquarians thread which I have been posting on as its relevant to the ego.
I do not like putting energy to this topic but the information is necessary for people to see the importance of transcending ego.

Firstly there is a lot of "evil" in this world for which many are charged with creating.

Im only concerned with root cause.

For example you can put weed killer on a weed but unless the roots are dealt with the problem will reappear.

So what is the purpose of the infiltrating, influencing, disinformation, confusing, creating fear. controlling that does go on?

The answer simply is to prevent the raising of consciousness.

The higher consciousness is completely free of fear, wants, desires, agenda, therefore it cant be controlled.

First in my understanding the lower astral denies God, it is another realm but influences the people of this earth by channeling, by direct mind control, through vibration- energy, through gangster rap, through, horror movies, the media.
The people doing this are unaware very often of the consequences of their actions.

The lower astral was in existence even before we came here, it is very powerful and clever.
It seduces through the human ego which is a separation device..
It uses the ego to create disharmony friction war, all the misery of the human race can be traced back to programming created by the lower astral.
One current example
We give kids video games that teach them to kill.
By the time a child is 15 he has seen 150 thousand murders on TV. Not influenced by TV? Ha ha!!! so why do firms spend millions on advertising?

Now the why.
The lower astral is greatly threatened by the way the human race is evolving, spiritually becoming more loving less tolerant of evil acts.

It is all down to the movement of energy expressed in vibration.
The lower realms are heavy slow vibrating, the heavenly celestial realm vibrate at a faster higher vibration.
People have their personal vibration and an attractor field.
As a persons vibration rises it aligns more and more with love and kindness.
It gives out love it raises also the attractor field and love flows back.
In that way we create our own reality.

When this happens they are moving out of the influence of the lower astral which feeds on the energy of hate, violence, lack of forgiveness, judgment, condemnation blaming. ( that is why it is not helpful to have a victim mentality and blame blame blame) The lower astral loves that level of thinking.
These are also attributes of a very strong lower vibration ego.

The ego as such is not the enemy but the more we free ourselves from its influence the higher the vibration of the person.

The devil tempted Jesus because he knew that the teaching of Jesus was a great danger to him.
Jesus taught Love and forgiveness and about God.
The lower astral hates love.

Now we can fix little things in this world though they might seem quite big but its really tinkering at the edges.
The only way that we can have a peaceful world is for each individual or enough people to make a commitment to be kind to all life including their own no matter what.
Thats not sitting on the fence its a definite choice and action, it certainly is not easy.
The consequent raising of consciousness creates a vibration of such a high rate that it is beyond the influence of the lower astral heavy vibration. The light so bright the darkness cannot survive.

Some really do not understand the effectiveness of dedicating ones life to a spiritual journey.
Thats why we need teachers who are enlightened.
They serve us, they point the way but they are not to be worshiped, only respected.
Their energy lifts the vibration of millions.

It is not possible for evil to survive in proximity to such a high vibration.
Anyway thats one way of explaining the need to transcend ego.

With love
Chris

Celine
25th May 2010, 22:08
Change isnt coming... Change is here.

Arguing over syntax or "truth" , has now become a waste of time.

i hate the word evil... i personaly dont belive it exists...though i do agree with what you say about lower astral entities .

i have been watching some of the threads, and quite frankly they seem repetitive.

it is hard to let go...of our ego.

Hard to submit..

To many see it as weakness..a few, experience its strength.

greybeard
25th May 2010, 22:18
Change isnt coming... Change is here.

Arguing over syntax or "truth" , has now become a waste of time.

i hate the word evil... i personaly dont belive it exists...though i do agree with what you say about lower astral entities .

i have been watching some of the threads, and quite frankly they seem repetitive.

it is hard to let go...of our ego.

Hard to submit..

To many see it as weakness..a few, experience its strength.

Hi Celine
I agree. I dont like the word evil but thats the way most see it.
Nothing is right or wrong till thinking makes it so.
Ive done enough thinking for one day smiling.
Good night Celine my friend.
Keep dancing.
C

frank samuel
25th May 2010, 22:49
Grey is been a while since I visited the ego thread and you are right our children are influence by so many destructive frequencies, it is the greatest tragedy of our time to pollute their minds and hearts with all the junk via the so call entertainment industry. Fear and murder being at the top of the list. Often parents wonder why their children become emotional basket cases, what did I do wrong ? The answer for me is to be involve in the development of their conscious and emotional maturity, sometimes when my children want to watch these type of films I lovingly intervene asking them to view something the entire family might enjoy. You can raise the frequency vibrational level of your children interactions with their environment taking the opportunity to indirectly teach your children important lessons,ie. there's only one TV in my house which we all share in the living room. One hard lesson for the young children to learn is to share so this is a good way for them bond . I have no idea how any of us ever watch tv when all we do is play , laugh and act like clowns. The point is stay involved and raise the frequency level of your families environment, before you know it your children will see the value in the things you do to keep them happy , emotionally stable, and open minded to learn and act responsibly.Love, love and love and your ego will soon melt away. Thank you my friend for this thread .

Many many blessings to all...:wub:

Kulapops
25th May 2010, 23:23
Nice to read your wise words again Grey... and Celine.. evil is only the opposite of 'live' :0)

Which is what a lot of us are not doing when we are not careful... not living life as fully as we may... for what ever reason.

I say.. let's go out there and sock it to us ! Not them... socking anyone else is a waste of time. Let the ego have both barrels then

:0)

K

Celine
25th May 2010, 23:24
Hear!! Hear!!

*celine passes a drink over to Kulapops ..and keeps dancing*

greybeard
25th May 2010, 23:27
Very wise Frank my friend. That is very good advice.

Great to have you here.

There is a quote along the lines of.
Myself I got right first, my family followed, My neighbors joined in, the town became right, the country became right, then the world came right because I came right.
So many want to fix the world when there own life is in need of love and attention from themselves.

There are three kinds of business.
My business
Other peoples business
and
Gods business.
The more time we spend in our own business the better for all.

Love Chris

Beren
26th May 2010, 12:25
Chris,

look what ego did to all of us during history?

Falling from grace was devastating thing all because we thought that we know and have the power but we didn 't knew and we didn't had the power.
When it was politely spoken to us that we are wrong ,we just let ego to rule and flamed in anger against Creator.

And look the results of that anger...

All about big ego who lied us .

Now we are in the process of healing, but again it all leads to that very point where our soul will be tested , did we learn something from our past? or not...

Kulapops
26th May 2010, 14:13
First there was Ego...

Then there came Lego

http://www.platformnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/lego_rock_band.jpg

:0)

K

greybeard
26th May 2010, 16:05
First there was Ego...

Then there came Lego

http://www.platformnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/lego_rock_band.jpg

:0)

K

yes is that you at the back playing drums K?

Unfortunately is easier to dissemble lego than ego.
Thnks for your vist my friend.
C

greybeard
26th May 2010, 19:56
Hi Welcome to this thread.
If you are new to this concept and feel inclined start at the first page.
There have been a lot of great contributions and I thank all who contribute and visit.
Chris

stardustaquarion
26th May 2010, 20:11
The higher consciousness is completely free of fear, wants, desires, agenda, therefore it cant be controlled.

Hi Chris, what level of higher consciousness are you talking about? Four dimensional?

greybeard
26th May 2010, 21:38
Hi Chris, what level of higher consciousness are you talking about? Four dimensional?

Hi Star good to see you here,
I dont know enough about dimensions to say.

What we are is spirit having a human experience, we are formless.
The state of enlightenment is the higher consciousness that I am talking about.
Its a non-location state, formless and timeless. The body functions but they are not actually in it or limited by form.
They are fully aware of awareness and consciousness
Their vibration is immensely high and powerful lifts the vibration of millions.
It counterbalances fear and negativity.

Conscious existed before universes and will exist long after universes dissolve
We are eternal.

Enlightenment is virtually the same as Christ consciousness

Spoken of by Krishna the Buddha Christ every enlightened sage uniform in their experience. Oneness with the totality all of it.
However it is not necessary to have a rise in consciousness to that degree.
to be free.

The lower astral spread disinfo about enlightenment for reasons given
Enlightenment is now within the reach of many.

A sculptor was asked how he created a beautiful woman from a block of marble.
His answer. I chip away everything that isn't feminine.

In essence we are enlightened.
When all that is not that state is removed then it shines forth in its true illumined state.
All belief systems condition, programing, fear to be released.
The biggest one is identification with the me story in the head which is ego.

Hope this helps
Chris

greybeard
26th May 2010, 23:03
There was a cowherd boy who took his cows to the meadows every morning and brought them back to the cowshed at the end of the day. One evening, as he was tying the cows up for the night, the boy found that one of them was missing her rope. He feared that she might run away, but it was too late to go and buy a new rope. The boy didn't know what to do, so he went to a wise man who lived nearby and sought his advice. The wise man told the boy to pretend to tie the cow, and make sure that the cow saw him doing it. The boy did as the wise man suggested and pretended to tie the cow. The next morning the boy discovered that the cow had remained still throughout the night. He untied all the cows as usual, and they all went outside. He was about to go to the meadows when he noticed that the cow with the missing rope was still in the cowshed. She was standing on the same spot where she had been all night. He tried to coax her to join the herd, but she wouldn't budge. The boy was perplexed. He went back to the wise man who said, "The cow still thinks she is tied up. Go back and pretend to untie her." The boy did as he was told, and the cow happily left the cowshed. This is what the guru does with the ego of the disciple. The guru helps untie that which was never there. Like the cow, due to our ignorance, we believe that we are bound by the ego when, in fact, we are completely free. We need to be convinced of this, however.

-Mother Amma (Mata Amritanandamayi)

RedeZra
27th May 2010, 02:04
what is wrong with the world

ignorance


consciousness is as an ocean

awake aware all


the formation of a bubble in the ocean

does not make it individual

but ignorance makes the bubble believe so


that it is a bubble amongst bubbles

alone and separate in a great unknown

while all the time basking in the ocean


until it bursts

nothing found and nothing lost

it is as it is


awake aware all

truthseekerdan
27th May 2010, 14:05
It is Ego that is stopping people experiencing the delights of what the universe has to offer. Without Ego we can become unlimited and boundless.
We can find new powers, new creativity, new opportunities for growth, for love, for harmony, peace and joy in our lives that before we let go of our Ego we could not begin to conceive.
But how do you get rid of Ego. You have to realize that you are operating through fear, fear of loss.

http://www.postersforthesoul.com/images/pg_poster5.jpg

Love always,

Dan

greybeard
28th May 2010, 13:21
David Icke said some things that I resonate with.

He talked about nothing being solid its fluid and that the brain organizes it into solidity in perception.

Sages since time began have said this, they, the enlightened ones, literally dont see the world the way we do, they dont experience it the way we do.

Everything is atoms in movement everything is actually, merged joined.
That means you and I and the furthest star are linked.

Try to see everything without exception as energy atoms in movement.
Even thoughts are atoms in movement with a unique vibration.

The powers that be, the Illuminati, we think we have to defeat, stand up to.
no that is a thought an energy of the same vibration as the illuminati.

Nothing is ever changed with the same vibration that caused it.
Fighting resisting tyranny, is still fighting, is an energy similar to that being fought.

The ego in its vanity thinks it will come up with some way to overcome the "enemy"
hasent happened in the whole history of the human race,
We have been at war for 95% of human history.

So what does bring about change --- higher consciousness.
That is why the powers that be are so afraid of spiritual truth.

Transcend ego and you are no longer motivated by fear or any negativity, you cant be controlled.

Does higher consciousness work.
Yes the evidence is overwhelming.

Millions of people owe their lives to the twelve step program of AA
Belief in a Higher Power got them out of a fatal addiction and transformed their lives and obviously the lives of all who were close to them. not much fun being the partner of a performing addict.

The sufferers of that disease had to let go of their ego enough to admit they were beaten, power less, to let go and accept the power of unconditional love of those who had suffered and found the way out of suffering.

The twelve step program has been altered to help many other addictions because it works.

It only works for those who have enough humility to let go of their ego to at least some degree.

So all the talk of ascension but will it happen for you and others?
Only if we are prepared to stop playing the game of the ego.

Dont take my word for it study read books like "The Power of Now" and "A New Earth" by Eckhart Tolle "Power vs Force" by Dr David Hawkins make up your own mind then make a real effort to raise consiousness.
We all benefit from what you do.

with Love
Chris

ps listen to the words of the song Human?
on the song link with my signature below.
Kindly disregard the singing.
A man of my age has no business singing that high. lOL

RedeZra
29th May 2010, 05:55
the power of love dispels the force of fear

like light disperses darkness


none of them are man made

but both can manifest

in a masquerade of shapes

to teach and heal or terrorize and hurt


it's a loss not to recognize

a form of love and a name of light


for it is a switch for the power within the heart

Moxie
29th May 2010, 14:24
I wrote to get permission to post an article here, about Ego and Eckhart Tolle's teachings. I was thanked for asking and was informed that I may post the link, not the pdf itself. I think that it's important to get different perspectives when it comes to discussing Ego and I find that the writer's do make some good points that may challenge and expand one's understanding.

http://lwlworldwide.com/dwnloads/EckhartEffect-V1.pdf

greybeard
29th May 2010, 14:33
Thanks very much Moxie.
Its good to be open minded.
Thats what choice is.
Different strokes for different folks.
Love
Chris

greybeard
29th May 2010, 18:24
Mudra shared this.


Here and Now

“Our ascension”, as I learned on the other side,
from the Gaia perspective,
Is a very natural evolution of dense being into more subtle being.

Already at the quantum level the human body is so very subtle.
No two atoms even touch.
We are more spirit than flesh, always have been,
Always will be.

The distance from the outside of an atom to the inside of an atom
Is the same distance as from here to forever.

The journey from the outside to the inside,
From the inside to the outside,
From anywhere to here is an impossible journey
that happens everyday in everything, everywhere.

There is no beginning or end to our journey.
Life did not begin here nor does it end here.
We have already been Alive Forever.

Let’s open our Eye.

The journey is not linear or time restricted.
Dive in when and where you choose.

2012
Why wait?

The end of time/space illusion is near.
How near?
Is Now a Good Time?

The Past, Present and Future come together Now.

Lamuria is now, Atlantis is now, even the unimagined Future is now.
We are all here together, right now!

The next epoch of consciousness/history is the Knowing of Now.

Time stops in the here and now.

Maybe there never was a Past
Maybe there is no Future

Listen to your teachers
It is always now
It Always was now , it always will be now
The only time you have is now

The ever brilliantly expanding now

Is the universe expanding or is our consciousness expanding?
Who is to say, if not you, our sweet self?

There is no other self but the self
Inner, outer, you, me, them
There is no self but the self
Micro, macro, mumbo Jumbo

Let the infant intellect Split hairs to infinity
And you still end up here and now!

Be joyful for
We have never died and we are only waking up!

Mellen Thomas

I posted this here as when the illusion of ego is removed only self remains.
What is ego?
Ego is the illusion, just a thought.
It is identification with the me story in the head,
There is no ego there is no me.
There is only Self
Chris

greybeard
29th May 2010, 22:04
I wrote to get permission to post an article here, about Ego and Eckhart Tolle's teachings. I was thanked for asking and was informed that I may post the link, not the pdf itself. I think that it's important to get different perspectives when it comes to discussing Ego and I find that the writer's do make some good points that may challenge and expand one's understanding.

http://lwlworldwide.com/dwnloads/EckhartEffect-V1.pdf

Moxie went to a lot of trouble to get this so I have bumped it up to the front again.
Eckhart Tolle is probably the most successful spiritual book writer of our age, millions of books read.
Regards
Chris

truthseekerdan
30th May 2010, 04:02
Thank you Moxie :thumb:

* Found this article that discusses the various types of ego.

There are two broad types of ego; The Lord’s ego and the man’s ego.

1. The Lord’s ego

This is a state of no ego, i.e. the ego of the person is literally 0. This state is found in Saints of 100% spiritual level when They are in a completely thoughtless state, merged with God. The ‘I’ness of such a person in this state of complete communion with God is totally merged with the God-principle, i.e. there is no ‘I’ness. Hence all tasks that happen through such a person are mere acts (kriyaa) not actions (karma) as they happen totally as per God’s wish. The hallmark of such Saints is Their perpetual state of Bliss even in the face of extreme adversity in Their worldly lives.

2. Man’s ego

Man’s ego is again broadly divided into 2 subtypes:

2.1 Pure ego

This is a state of traces of ego seen in Saints of the highest order when They are not in complete communion with God. These Saints have just a mere awareness of one’s existence. This trace ego is required for the sustenance of the body functions.


Pure ego can be understood as having the following attitudes :
Considering oneself to be distinct or separate from Brahman (God principle), that is harbouring awareness of the self through duality.
Having awareness of one’s existence.
Harbouring the spiritual emotion (bhaav) that ‘I belong to others and all are mine’.

Even this ego persists only as long as there is existence of the physical body. It ceases to exist with the cessation of the bodily existence of such Saints.

2.2 Impure ego

This type of ego is what most of us experience. Almost all of us identify with our physical body, or feelings and emotions and feel pride in our intellect. This is due to various impressions in the centres of the subtle body like temperamental characteristics, desires, likes and dislikes, etc. Depending on thoughts and emotions, this ego can be either saattvik (sattva predominant), raajasik (raja predominant) or taamasik (tama predominant).


Taamasik ego: Ego which is subtle basic tama predominant is called taamasik ego, e.g. believing only in one’s own capability.
Raajasik ego: Subtle basic raja predominant ego is called raajasik ego, e.g. constantly striving for happiness.
Saattvik ego: Ego which is predominant in the subtle basic sattva component is called saattvik ego, e.g. ego about sacrifice is saattvik in nature.


3. Types according to the proportion of ego

On a scale of 0-100%, the ego of God or the Saints at 100% spiritual level when in a state of complete communion with God is 0%. The ego of the subtle sorcerer (mantrik) of the highest strength from the 7th region of Hell (Paataal) is 100%. On this scale, the ego of an average individual is 30%. Adolf Hitler’s ego was 60%.
(Please note that by ‘average individual’ we mean a person who is average spiritually. In his worldly life this individual could be a billionaire, a head of state or a celebrity from show business.)
Depending on the proportion of ego, it can be classified as follows:


http://www.spiritualresearchfoundation.org/aboutspiritualresearch/SpiritualPractice/ego/images/Proportion-of-ego.gif

Source: SSRF (http://www.spiritualresearchfoundation.org/articles/id/aboutspiritualresearch/SpiritualPractice/ego/types-of-ego)

stardustaquarion
30th May 2010, 09:47
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Fy90GM0oFAk&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Fy90GM0oFAk&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

There is no ego, there is nothing to fight or trascend, only acceptance and compassion....which does not mean ignoring what is going on around us. After all, all is all :amen:

greybeard
30th May 2010, 10:07
Hi Strardust
Thank you for your visit and the video.
I saw Ganghi at Findhorn she is here again at the moment.

You are of course right but I wish It was that simple.
Most are not ready ready to step out of the illusion of me.
Eckhart Tolle is clear -- No self, no problem.
The main stumbling block is the thought that there is a totally independant me doing things.
Oneness is denied
Wayne Dyer defines this non existent ego as Edge -- God --Out. Now there may not actually be an ego but there are many who edge God out.
That is the problem to be addressed.

You and quite a few are very fortunate to have got to the point of understanding that you have seen through the illusion of non existent ego and realize that the me is also a story in the head.

This thread has many different understandings on the subject and all are welcome.
What ever works for the individual.
Whenever belief in the ego ceases when ever oneness is realized,, when people are enlightened, free from ignorance then we will have all that you aspire to Stardust.
Its all down to language which is misleading.
There are levels of consciousness to be transcended in order to realize we are home already in fact we never left.
That is the big illusion
Thats were the enlightened ones are so necessary, be it Allan Watts, Ghangi, Dr Hawkins, they meet you at your level of vibration, understanding, and lift you, take you out of ignorance.


Love peace harmony.
Chris

stardustaquarion
30th May 2010, 10:26
Its all down to language which is misleading.
There are levels of consciousness to be transcended in order to realize we are home already in fact we never left.
That is the big illusion

Yeah that is the reason I prefer videos :laugh: just jocking :rolleyes:

We are there, we just have to remember and accept the totality of our being (the good, the bad and the ugly) and re-align it to full conscioussness :yes4:

Big hugs mate, take care

777
30th May 2010, 10:29
This is a very simple one for me. And by that I'm not being sardonically EGOtistical!! LOL.

There is no ego, there is no self.

My inner-talk is a low frequency vibration trying to manifest itself into being. Where there is attention or focus there is life. If the ego or self is the focus then it exists. Where the inner voice is the focus, the inner-ego "me" exists. Where the inner voice is passively observed without attachment and a sense of bemusement (rather than focussed on) it merely exists alongside All that is without forming YOU, or SELF or EGO.

Good thread Chris, Tolle has some great works.

greybeard
30th May 2010, 10:45
This is a very simple one for me. And by that I'm not being sardonically EGOtistical!! LOL.

There is no ego, there is no self.

My inner-talk is a low frequency vibration trying to manifest itself into being. Where there is attention or focus there is life. If the ego or self is the focus then it exists. Where the inner voice is the focus, the inner-ego "me" exists. Where the inner voice is passively observed without attachment and a sense of bemusement (rather than focussed on) it merely exists alongside All that is without forming YOU, or SELF or EGO.

Good thread Chris, Tolle has some great works.

Yes 777
all so true.
My mind thankfully is virtually silent now and thats through following Eckarts advice.
I just sit and watch the ducks without any comment, no labeling no defining just pure awareness.
It is also very helpful if you can be in the company of an enlightened one, the energy of their aura attaches to your aura, its a permanent attachment.
It speeds up your escape from nonexistent ego.
Its all levels.
For example there is not much point in giving a bible to some one who is starving.
Dr H has a map of consciousness leading all the way up to God, that made real sense to me.
A big Ah Ha moment.
Moxie posted some helpful info here.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?2315-The-infiltration-of-the-New-Age-Movement-and-Andrija...&p=22841#post22841

Chris

truthseekerdan
30th May 2010, 14:37
Found this great article by Ariel Bravy. Enjoy! :thumb:


We’re going to be describing the ego in terms of a metaphor which will allow us to both visualize the effects of using the ego in the world, as well as understand the necessity for surrendering the ego.


The ego is simply a tool, an automatic duality-creating machine which allows us to experience every possible aspect of life.
Now the problem is not so much that the ego itself exists, but the fact that people are identified with it.
The ego has a useful purpose: to allow us to believe that illusions are a reality and thus experience both the real and the illusionary. The ego is simply a tool.

It’s similar to someone using a hammer. When a nail needs to be nailed into a wall, a hammer is certainly a very useful tool. So, people find that it benefits them to use the hammer and thus they pick it up and use it to their advantage. Cool. No problem. It’s very clear that while you’re using the hammer, the hammer is not YOU, but simply a tool that you are using with which to engage in the process of creation. http://www.arielbravy.com/enlightenment/wp-includes/images/smilies/hammer.gif

The “problem” is that most people think that they literally ARE the hammer and that there is nothing else they can be, so they continue hammering in every activity in life: while talking to others, having sex with a partner, dealing with foreign politics, resolving disagreements, even in talking to themselves!
…and then people wonder why the world is in the shape that it’s in. http://www.arielbravy.com/enlightenment/wp-includes/images/smilies/tongue.gif
If people would simply set down their hammer when the tool was not required, the world would be a much more peaceful and loving place. As the saying goes, “To a hammer, everything looks like a nail.”


http://www.arielbravy.com/enlightenment/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/hammer_head.jpg


There will come a time when people discover, “Hey wait a second, perhaps this hammer isn’t so useful in this situation afterall. Let’s set it down for a moment, quit swinging this thing, and see if we can deal with this situation without using the hammer. Perhaps people won’t get hurt in the end. hmmm…”
Much to their surprise, it turns out that problems can be solved without the hammer, without bringing the ego into the mix. With experience and understanding, people can learn to deal with one another without having a dangerous hammer swinging all over the place while communicating.

All it takes to come back to a place of peace and harmony is the conscious choice to set down the hammer and bring in another energy, the energy of Love.
One of the coolest parts about Love is that once the hammer is set down, all the Love in the world arises automatically. It is effortless, joyous, blissful, and automatic.

My invitation to you is to set down your hammer. Surrender attachments to your ego. You truly don’t need it to operate in a healthy manner. It served its purpose, you’ve experienced using it, and you don’t need it to create a world full of Love. If anything, the hammer is actually detrimental to Love.

When you feel the urge to pick up the hammer, that is, you notice the ego arise within you, set it down and release it. (There are times when using the hammer is appropriate, but it is beneficial to determine when such a time is. For example, the mind can be an excellent tool for solving math problems.)

Usually it will seem almost as if the hammer has a mind of its own, as if it literally JUMPS back into your hand and possesses your arm to make itself swing wildly. This is actually not so far from the truth of how your ego operates.

The ego will try to possess you, to take you over, and then claim that it IS you.
It takes a conscious decision to surrender the ego and the pleasure it gets from “juicing” the negative aspects of life, especially when the ego tries to possess you and claim that it IS you. This decision to surrender the ego is made over and over again, moment by moment. It is accomplished by shifting your sense of identity from the personal “me” to the infinite awareness that simply observes.

Gradually the ego will start to lose its grip on you as you simply watch the ego do its thing non-judgmentally, without actually believing that the ego is you.
However, there will be times when the ego gets especially strong and feels overwhelmingly powerful. This is normal and to be expected.

The path of spiritual evolution is not a straight path. There are many twists and turns and zigs and zags along the spiritual seeker’s journey towards unconditional love and enlightenment. There will be highs and there will be lows. Knowing this fact in advance will save you lots of guilt when the lows strike and the ego will make you think, “Yikes, maybe I’m actually not as evolved as I thought I was.”

When this happens, simply watch the ego churn inside of you. Watch the beliefs and emotions get all worked up inside. Watch the hammer attempting to take control of your arm and swing itself wildly. Just watch it without thinking that you are the hammer, without thinking that you are the thoughts, beliefs, emotions, opinions, judgments, or mood swings. Allow the energy to express itself and subsequently be released. Allow this to happen without resistance, without trying to stop it, stifle it, or even say it’s somehow bad or wrong. Just allow the energy to flow through you and out.

You are the awareness that is observing the hammer. You are the awareness that is observing the ego. So watch it. Study it. Notice how it works. Then you can surrender it. You can let it go. You can set the hammer down and realize that it’s truly not necessary to use the hammer in order to live a life filled with Love, Peace, and Joy.

In fact, it is the ego itself, and the identification with it, that is damaging and destructive to life. When the hammer is set down, when the ego is surrendered, life becomes a constant creation of boundless Love, infinite Joy, and exquisite Ecstasy.
All it takes is setting down the hammer. :)

Ariel Bravy is a spiritual teacher guiding people along the pathway to enlightenment and unconditional love by helping people raise their level of consciousness and transcend their egos.

His in depth teachings are available at www.ArielBravy.com and you are invited and encouraged to come and be a part of the evolution of human consciousness on earth.

illuminate
30th May 2010, 16:29
Mudra shared this.


where is Mudra??
tell her to get her beautiful self on over here,
oh how I miss her!!!

you both were like a team of beautiful bright lights that I could
always count on for putting the biggest smile on my face and in
my heart... thank you!!!

xo

greybeard
30th May 2010, 16:50
where is Mudra??
tell her to get her beautiful self on over here,
oh how I miss her!!!

you both were like a team of beautiful bright lights that I could
always count on for putting the biggest smile on my face and in
my heart... thank you!!!

xo


Her new residence.

http://www.themistsofavalon.net/forum.htm

Dear Illuminate
I share your feelings.
I have begged, cajoled several times as recently as yesterday.

Whats a man to do -- smiling.

Heart heart is so big.

In fairness so are a lot of hearts in residence here, but only one Mudra,
She is happy in her new home which I visit from time to time.

Thanks for your kind words
Chris

illuminate
30th May 2010, 17:06
Thank YOU Chris...
I shall have to go and visit the
mists and do some begging myself :p

ps.. congrats to you for quitting smoking...
so hard, but SO GOOD!!!!

greybeard
30th May 2010, 23:39
Thank YOU Chris...
I shall have to go and visit the
mists and do some begging myself :p

ps.. congrats to you for quitting smoking...
so hard, but SO GOOD!!!!
Love your Avatar.
Thanks very much.
So far so good/
Sucking my thumb Lol.
Every time a trigger goes off I say " I wont have one just now"
No big deal.
What you resit, persists.
Love Chris.

truthseekerdan
31st May 2010, 00:16
http://www.youaretrulyloved.com/enlightenment/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/homer-devil-angel-shoulders.gif

Let's see how they line up... Devil/Satan = Ego? You decide for yourself! :rolleyes: :)

If the ego is the separation between us and the divine, then the "fall" would be divinity coming into the dense matter and separating from the oneness it had in the unmanifest. Satan (adversary) is related to density - and bodily desire, greed, hate, and gluttony.

In Buddhism Satan is basically equivalent to "Mara" the god of delusion (Mara tempts the Buddha with desire and anger during an all night meditation, and the Buddha resists and becomes enlightened).

In Hinduism Mara is the Goddess of Death. Maya is a more prominent goddess who rules illusion and the duality of existence. Even though illusion and duality are to be overcome - she's not seen as evil per se, just doing her job keeping us in the dark.

In Judaism (old testament) Satan is "the accuser".
In Islam, Satan is called Iblis and refused to bow before Adam at the beginning of humanity. And he's not an angel at all. In Islam angels do not have free will - but a Jinn (genie) who like a human has free will.

If the ego is delusion, that separates us from the divine, tempt us with desire, delude us, refuse to bow to us, and seems to have free will - then sure Satan = Ego.

Hope this explanation helps, and I don't have to be right. :wink:

Dan ~ :wub:

greybeard
31st May 2010, 07:39
Thanks Dan
you have obviously gone into the subject very deeply.
I like videos but prefer to know what a person thinks.
I want to know how a spiritual teaching is helpful in this world.
Ramana said " The measure of spiritual progress is the degree of silence of the mind."
The ego is a nag, monkey mind, all over the place, rest-less, no peace to be had..

Intention is the most important thing.

Krishna (All avatars speak for God as they are God) said. All are mine even those who run in the wrong direction.

All that is needed is one intention to be aligned to Gods will.

Sai Baba said "Love all serve all"

Hawkins "Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what"

Tolle "NOW" "Dont take your thoughts too seriously"

Course in miracles, " Know that when you take up position you are identifying with an illusion" nothing is what it seems to be.
It is my intention to say things that are helpful-- not necessarily true or untrue, right or wrong.
What a child needs to hear is not much use to an adult.
Ramana dyingof cancer was asked if e felt pain,
The answer --- "The body does" He was not the body and was unaware of pain, till asked about it.
He served all till the moment of his death -- what an ego less example to us all.
We there is no agenda --- whats in it for me --- there is no ego.
We can say there is no ego tlll we are blue in the face, but until enlightenment relieves us of that illusion, ego is very much alive and kicking.
Thats the difficulty with superficial knowledge quoted with out context.
The enlightened can say I am God
That I am the totality all of it.
Its true for them but not true for us, YET.
Its our potential but not our subjective reality, YET.
One must dive very deep to discover truth.
Investigate, investigate.
Meditate on what you find.

Truth will reveal itself when you are ready.

Chris

Chris

greybeard
31st May 2010, 11:44
A great teacher will not say from great height.

There is no ego, without showing you how to let go of that illusion.

The true teacher will come down to where you are, your level of misunderstanding. and gently accompany you every step of the way.

He/she will not push or force in any way.

When your truly ready an appropriate teacher will appear.
But beware there are many egos dressed as teachers.

When you are truly ready the Grace of God will relieve you of ignorance and then you can say.

There is no ego because, you wont have one, till then thinking makes it so and the illusory ego is very real.

Thinking however will not free you, thinkin created the illusion.
Only the power of God can free you.

Love Chris

greybeard
31st May 2010, 12:13
At the risk of offending
There is much talk of spirituality.
What is spirituality?
The main part of it is seeking to know God, finding Him within.

There are many attracting follower just now, trying to lead them to a place where they themselves have not reached.
Talk of Ascension in a knowing way and there will be many listeners reader etc
No one is ascended in that way, because it hasn't happened as yet.
Going to the stars, UFO,s thats an other different subject entirely.

Assuming there are aliens, they were made by the same Creator as us.
Do they know more than God?

God is inside you now waiting patiently to be discovered and are you looking or chasing after exciting concepts?

Please think very carefull before you devote a lot of time following non-enlightened teachers.
If you claim to be looking for spiritual truth, then devote time to reading books by those who are free of ignorance free of ego, not just saying there is no ego but enlightened by the grace of God.
Talking about it is not it.
Many talk about enlightenment and there are good non- enlightened teachers like Wayne Dyer at least he is honest, he goes and listens to Dr David Hawkins who is his main inspiration.
Wayne wrote the fore word to Dr Hawkins Power vs Force.

I only share what I believe to be so from my own personal experience.
I read the books and found them to be true from my subjective experience.
Short of enlightenment that is
My ego is still work in progress.
With Love
Chris

greybeard
31st May 2010, 13:57
How do you know if a teacher is enlightened?
Somewhere it the book about or by them will be a description of an event which changed them permanently.
not an Ah Ha -- we all get them.
A profound and moving description normally, before during and after..
They are the event.
The caterpillar becomes the butterfly.
After the event there is normally a transition period where the state matures.
Eckhart worked ion for a period of time then spent two years in a state of bliss sitting on a bench.
Ramana was redendered speachless and help less he couldent eave feed himself he was in communion - oneness with God ecstatic bliss.
Hawkins could no longer work then the ability came back, he worked for a period of time building the biggest Psychiatric Practice in New York.
The realization came that it was like bailing out the ocean with a bucket.
He became a hermit in his ashram for one not eating for days, no need to.
The state of enlightenment continued for some years, sometimes tempted by the Devil to assume power. he resisted. then the final door opened.
As posted a little earlier. Only God walks through the final door.
We cant understand that level of oneness.
I suggest you choose your teacher wisely,
preferably a live one, here and now, one that serves you, rather than the other way about,.

Love Chris

rosie
31st May 2010, 16:25
If we can take responsibility for all that is not good, then we have transcended our ego. The Gulf Oil spill for me, is a perfect example, where we cannot just blame a company for this environmental disaster. We are all to blame, we all have been using the oil and gas, and the supply and demand is what pushes them to go further then they would if there was not a requirement for it.

(I bow my head in shame )

in love & light :wub:

greybeard
31st May 2010, 17:27
If we can take responsibility for all that is not good, then we have transcended our ego. The Gulf Oil spill for me, is a perfect example, where we cannot just blame a company for this environmental disaster. We are all to blame, we all have been using the oil and gas, and the supply and demand is what pushes them to go further then they would if there was not a requirement for it.

(I bow my head in shame )

in love & light :wub:

There is a lot in your post Rosie and we all have a share in all that happens.
However shame is not a positive emotion.
We can learn from our error and I hope we are.
Hopefully some good will come from this event.
I greatly share your concern though.
Love Chris

kriya
31st May 2010, 17:36
If we can take responsibility for all that is not good, then we have transcended our ego. The Gulf Oil spill for me, is a perfect example, where we cannot just blame a company for this environmental disaster. We are all to blame, we all have been using the oil and gas, and the supply and demand is what pushes them to go further then they would if there was not a requirement for it.

(I bow my head in shame )
in love & light :wub:


It is not your fault Rosie,

We are given no choice and get what we are given in terms of oil.

Maybe this will be the catalyst for 'free energy', and a change in mass consiousness.

Love,

Kriya

greybeard
31st May 2010, 19:00
Off topic

I asked permission from Chris Lol

I spoke to Mudra today.
She misses you all and would like to set up a chat with us.
I dont know how.
But you can contact her here.
Love Chris

http://www.themistsofavalon.net/forum.htm

zenith
1st June 2010, 14:25
There is much talk of spirituality.
What is spirituality?
The main part of it is seeking to know God, finding Him within.

Hi Chris,
Unfortunately there's no point of reference for what the word 'within' means until one has personal experience.
Obviously by then no explanation is necessary.
I'm reminded of the leap of faith scene in Indiana Jones. It merely 'appears' that there's nothing there.
Of course it's not that there's nothing there, it's that there's nothing here!
No wonder it gets confusing (smile).

Peace

greybeard
1st June 2010, 15:37
Hi Chris,
Unfortunately there's no point of reference for what the word 'within' means until one has personal experience.
Obviously by then no explanation is necessary.
I'm reminded of the leap of faith scene in Indiana Jones. It merely 'appears' that there's nothing there.
Of course it's not that there's nothing there, it's that there's nothing here!
No wonder it gets confusing (smile).

Peace

Yes laughing
Dr Hawkins ver often begins his lectures by saying
"I will start at the end of the talk then if you fall asleep you will have missed nothing"
he then goes on to say.
Only God is --- nothing ever happened, -- No beginning no end, Timeless.

Now I might believe that because I have read of "Indras" dream and "In breath and out breath of God" and many other ancient teaching saying more or less the same thing
But I dont have subjective experience of that.

The good Dr Hawkins knows im ignorant of this so proceeds to lead me out of illusion bit by bit.

On the way I find one thing after another happens to prove to me that the teaching is valid through subjective experience.
Kundalin energy moved strongly before I even knew there was such a thing.
So back to what you say, somtimes if there is faith first the evidence will follow.
All we can do is share our strength and experience.
Thanks Chris

greybeard
2nd June 2010, 07:47
The ego loves drama and one of the main ways it does is to perpetuate fear.
All ego positionalities come down to fear, needing to have, fear of lack, blowing ones own trumpet, insecurity, fear that others are better than one in some way, attention seeking, fear of not being loved. all prejudiced comes from fear of that which we dont know or understand.
The list is endless.
If fear is removed think of the kind of world we would live in.

The ego is animalistic and was necessary to our survival -- me first-- survival of the fittest.
The front cortex of the brain is a relatively new addition to what is still an animal reptilian "processor" as in computer.
So we have become a very intelligent animal. We could blow up the plant with one finger on the launch button of nuclear missiles, well two fingers actually.

The human race has been at war for 95% of its known history and without a change in attitude ie consciousness-- past history if continued would make major use of atomic weapons inevitable. Good bye human race!!!

With out the ego the human race would not have survived,
We had to know what was safe to eat and what would eat us.
We had to be dualistic in order to survive long enough as a species to give human consciousness the time to experience, to grow spiritually, make ready for the next stage in our evolution.
So the ego has served us well but time to move on.

So what happens when the ego is transcended?

If the Sages who tell us they experience the world in an entirely different non dualistic,ego less way are to be believed (and I do) the the ego less state of Oneness is one filled with peace and love, enjoying life in a radiance that is unknown to us, the as yet non enlightened.
The ego is just redundant not required because in the state of enlightenment the awareness takes over from the mind, as we know it, verbal thought is not necessary, there is a non verbal knowing. appropriate action just happens. As said life is enjoyed to the full.

Transcending the ego is to my mind crucial to our survival.
It is that important.

If you are new to this thread can I suggest that you take time to read at least some of the other pages. There have been some great contributions.

stardustaquarion
2nd June 2010, 11:57
I got this about Hawkings, is not very possitive

[b:43f8d6ed1e]Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.[/b:43f8d6ed1e]

[b:43f8d6ed1e]1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.[/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Hawkins is the sole measure of truth in the universe. People never agree on calibrations when they do it, and must depend on him for the "truth". There is no accountability; there is no group or leader to watch over him, he believes he is God. A direct pipeline to truth with no accountability, if not a cult today will be one tomorrow, as a cult expert friend tells me.

[b:43f8d6ed1e]2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.[/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Absolutely. His "truth" is the only "truth". To even question AK, or report that legitimate double-blind studies have shown that AK is a pseudoscience that is "not more useful than random guessing" will get a calibration of "below 200" ("Dispensing of Existence" on the Lifton criteria).

[b:43f8d6ed1e]3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement. [/b:43f8d6ed1e]

None that I know of. It would be interesting for Rick Ross or someone else to request one, as "4truth" indicated. I just know that one could spend thousands of dollars through his website alone, forgetting about his live lectures (and possible travel expenses). Yet he claims that he does not charge money for his teaching. Very hard to believe. There are ways of making all of his teachings available for free if he really wanted to. It appears that is not his desire.

[b:43f8d6ed1e]4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions. [/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Totally. Over three quarters of the planet's population are "below 200", meaning without integrity and so on. Not only people, but certain objects, thoughts, words, etc. ad infinitum. It creates a wacky sensibility and certain paranoia within a follower.

[b:43f8d6ed1e]5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil. [/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Well, of course. Hawkins has the absolute, 100% scientific and spiritual truth. He is God. His work calibrates higher than the Bible and every genius of history. Why would you want to leave? Clearly a person is at a lower level of consciousness if not following Hawkins. Get below 200, which is pretty easy to do (even stating AK has been shown to be a pseudoscience gets you this ranking), and Hawkinazis (humor, no offense) are not supposed to speak with you. Forget that Christ was friends with prostitutes and every other "low life" of his day! People and things below "200" make your muscles go weak. Wayne Dyer says, "Even the heart is a muscle". Ergo, you can die if you do not follow the teachings of Hawkins.

[b:43f8d6ed1e]6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances. [/b:43f8d6ed1e]

This is true as far as a similar pattern of grievances. Often it is about Hawkins being very conservative and so on. As far as abuse, I've not heard from enough former members to establish a pattern. Of course this would classify as mental and spiritual, rather than physical, abuse (unless someone else knows something to the contrary). One is meant to give up their identity for Hawkins' opinions of the universe. Clearly this is unhealthy, especially after finding out that Hawkins is a fraud (which he is, from a scientific perspective, as has been clearly demonstrated repeatedly).

[b:43f8d6ed1e]7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader. [/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Yes, and it is growing. His first spiritual book was only published in 1995, so more time is needed for more people to come forward. But already several cult experts are aware of him and there should be information online from at least one or two of them online shortly. There are no books, news articles or television programs that I am aware of to date.

[b:43f8d6ed1e]8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".[/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Absolutely. One is always at a "low" level of consciousness. While the real God loves us unconditionally, clearly one is never "good enough" in Hawkins' system. Even "4truth" stated as much, though he would not attribute Hawkins' system to Hawkins apparently.

[b:43f8d6ed1e]9. The group/leader is always right.[/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Absolutely. No one is ever right compared to Hawkins. He is the master of the universe, and knows everything in it. Your ideas and opinions are "vanity" (nice, eh?). His ideas and opinions are absolute (psuedo)scientific "truth".

[b:43f8d6ed1e]10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible. [/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Absolutely. Hawkins knows everything through AK. AK is put above your own truth, experience, heart, rational thought, etc. It is his world that he created, and he is the master of it. Step in his way or out of line, and he and/or his followers will "dispense existence" and label you below 200.


[b:43f8d6ed1e]Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.[/b:43f8d6ed1e]

[b:43f8d6ed1e]1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration. [/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Of course. Very clearly, just reading "4Truth" and "TossedSalad"'s responses. Did they ever mention one critical fact regarding Hawkins?

[b:43f8d6ed1e]2. Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens. [/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Of course. Is this not obvious in simply reading some of the responses here?

[b:43f8d6ed1e]3. Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".[/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Of course. Dr. Robert Todd Carroll, a philosophy professor, was labeled "160" by Hawkins for thinking rationally and scientifically. See Hawkins' response here: [en.wikipedia.org]

[b:43f8d6ed1e]4. Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.[/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Totally. Hawkinazis literally start to act like Hawkins. I discussed this more in private email with "J"/TossedSalad. For example, 4Truth's "India" example is paraphrasing Hawkins. Hawkinazis start to say "frankly" and "naive" a lot, like Hawkins does. It is very odd and spooky. If you are at all familiar with Hawkins, listen to him and then listen to a follower. It's weird. See TossedSalad's first post, where we are to "discern" (another big Hawkins word) "throwing the baby out with the bathwater", a direct quote from Hawkins' response to Dr. Carroll. See also the Hawkinazi who Dr. Carroll quoted in his newsletter:

[skepdic.com]

Quote:
Boy did you ever blow it. Hawkins is an MD and has a PhD [from CPU]. Look it up and get it right this time. I have personally read his doctoral thesis [from CPU, "Muscle Strength and Emotionally Charged Stimuli" (later titled "Qualitative and Quantitative Analysis and Calibrations of the Level of Human Consciousness"). Another wonderful "doctoral thesis" from CPU was written in Spanish, and the author received a Ph.D. though the four faculty could not speak the language! [www.ptreyeslight.com] ], have you?
You had better check out David R Hawkins and maybe read one of his books before you say another word...

What would be your motive for discrediting Dr Hawkins in the first place? and without first-hand knowledge of the premise upon which his conclusions are based? Read Power vs. Force and then discredit him if you can.

One thing is certain in this life and that is that there is a consequence to every act. What you do to try and discredit such a man as Dr. Hawkins will ultimately create the same reflection in your own reality -- count on it. That's the way consciousness and energy operate. The universe is just and that's the way the universe is and you can't change it so try and be a little more responsible and contemplative about what you disseminate to the general public...

He questions Dr. Carroll's "motive" (AK is supposed to be able to reveal a person's motives!), notes that there is a "consequence to every act" (threat?); the highlight sentence, "The universe is just and that's the way the universe is..." is followed by a reminder to the philosophy professor to be "responsible" and "contemplative", another big Hawkins emphasis.

[b:43f8d6ed1e]5. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement. [/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Absolutely. Every Hawkinazi ultimately must depend on Hawkins for his calibrations of "truth". He is the absolute authority with no accountability.

[b:43f8d6ed1e]6. Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.[/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Absolutely. One young man I am aware of was managing a rap group, before he felt that this was negative and he had to give it up to "rise in consciousness" or whatever. He gave up on his former passion, for Hawkins (and spent much money to go see him speak in Sedona, so he could get "blissed out").

[b:43f8d6ed1e]7. A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor. [/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Perhaps spontaneity, but a key aspect of Hawkins' teaching is humor. He laughs all the time. One cult expert that I spoke with found that he laughed inappropriately, and thought him to be virtually senile. The expert said that Hawkins reminded him of an old man who wears diapers and is kind of out of control of himself and out of touch with reality.

[b:43f8d6ed1e]8. Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader. [/b:43f8d6ed1e]

4truth said as much. He had to get rid of the negative friends to reinforce the positive. I am reminded of several excellent "South Park" episodes...The young man I mentioned earlier gave up managing a rap group he loved.

[b:43f8d6ed1e]9. Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.[/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Totally. When Hawkins is rude, arrogant, ignorant, and so on, it is justified in some way, whereas everyone else is supposed to be "unconditionally loving"; clearly Hawkins himself is not. But he is way beyond a mere "540" (unconditional love), where less than 1% of the population is -- he is enlightened, so he can do basically anything I guess, and we just do not understand it because is so far beyond us...

[b:43f8d6ed1e]10. Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided. [/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Anyone below 200 is to be avoided. In one book, Hawkins himself gives an example of a friendly man who would come around to see Hawkins. But, then the man became annoying. Uh-oh, time to calibrate -- pull out Susan's (his wife) arm! Ah Hah! The man had 2 consciousnesses! One was friendly, in the 300's. The other though, was below 200. Hawkins asked him to not come around any more. Buddha walked with a murderer, Christ was friends with prostitutes, but Hawkins, with AK in hand (pun intended) knows better!


[b:43f8d6ed1e]Ten signs of a safe group/leader.[/b:43f8d6ed1e]

[b:43f8d6ed1e]1. A safe group/leader will answer your questions without becoming judgmental and punitive. [/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Hawkins is not like this obviously.

[b:43f8d6ed1e]2. A safe group/leader will disclose information such as finances and often offer an independently audited financial statement regarding budget and expenses. Safe groups and leaders will tell you more than you want to know. [/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Hawkins stated way less than should have been known, namely regarding the source of his Ph.D., as one example, or that AK is considered pseudoscience by mainstream science and has been shown to be false. No one as far as I know has access to his financial records. 4truth, why don't you try to get them for us? Or Rick Ross?

[b:43f8d6ed1e]3. A safe group/leader is often democratic, sharing decision making and encouraging accountability and oversight.[/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Of course not. Hawkins is the leader of the universe. There is no one above him. I suppose a person could claim God is above him, but Hawkins thinks he is God.

[b:43f8d6ed1e]4. A safe group/leader may have disgruntled former followers, but will not vilify, excommunicate and forbid others from associating with them. [/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Hawkins states that even negative reports on AK (what I am writing right now) calibrates below 200. This is similar to being condemned to hell, or being excommunicated. Anyone below 200 must be avoided.

[b:43f8d6ed1e]5. A safe group/leader will not have a paper trail of overwhelmingly negative records, books, articles and statements about them.[/b:43f8d6ed1e]

More is on the way, but much has been stated already.

[b:43f8d6ed1e]6. A safe group/leader will encourage family communication, community interaction and existing friendships and not feel threatened. [/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Not necessarily existing friendships, or even family I would presume. The guiding message is that anything below 200 makes one go weak and should be avoided.

[b:43f8d6ed1e]7. A safe group/leader will recognize reasonable boundaries and limitations when dealing with others. [/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Hawkins believes he is God and that AK is absolutely true. He has no limitations.

[b:43f8d6ed1e]8. A safe group/leader will encourage critical thinking, individual autonomy and feelings of self-esteem. [/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Hawkins clearly does not fit. Critical thinking (e.g., as with Dr. Carroll) gets you a negative calibration. Individual autonomy is assumed (he teaches free will), but only to the degree that you are aligned with what he says. That is, you are free -- now go be nice and kind, etc. One is never "good enough" and so of course self-esteem is not fostered.

[b:43f8d6ed1e]9. A safe group/leader will admit failings and mistakes and accept constructive criticism and advice.[/b:43f8d6ed1e]

Clearly Hawkins has made mistakes. Can a Hawkins follower provide an example of him publicly recognizing his errors?

I can think of an example where he did not. The thought of Hitler is always supposed to make a person's arm go weak. One time to demonstrate this "absolute truth", Hawkins pressed on a person's arm on stage at lecture-performance. The arm did not go weak when the subject thought of Hitler. What did Hawkins do in response to his absolute truth clearly being refuted before everyone's eyes? He calibrated more and determined that Hitler, in his new incarnation (!), is now above 200!!! Hitler now makes people's arms "go strong"!!!

[b:43f8d6ed1e]10. A safe group/leader will not be the only source of knowledge and learning excluding everyone else, but value dialogue and the free exchange of ideas. [/b:43f8d6ed1e]

There is no free exchange of ideas. Remember, everyone but Hawkins' ideas are "vanity". Forget that AK itself is opinion and vanity, because when Hawkins presses on his wife's arm, it says only everyone else's opinions are vanity.

Quote:
[b:43f8d6ed1e][i:43f8d6ed1e]Don't be naïve, develop a good BS Detector. You can protect yourself from unsafe groups and leaders by developing a good BS detector. Check things out, know the facts and examine the evidence. A safe group will be patient with your decision making process. If a group or leader grows angry and anxious just because you want to make an informed and careful decision before joining; beware. [/i:43f8d6ed1e][/b:43f8d6ed1e] -- Rick Ross



Note that for 4truth, these teachers are all on the same level: The Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, the Vedas (Hindu), Swami Vivekananda and Sri Ramakrishna, Zoroaster and Dr. Hawkins.

"The Doc says that ALL Truth is the same," yet his AK system contradicts this. The Buddha telling people to be a lamp unto themselves also contradicts Hawkins' AK system -- people depend on him alone for the final absolute truth (no one else's calibrations carry the same weight -- right, 4truth?).

Quote:
I'm sure not everone accepted the teachers or teachings from thousands of years ago either.

This misses the point. Please read above.

Quote:
But they seem to all be saying the same thing.

None of the teachers you listed besides Hawkins uses AK, has a Ph.D. from a diploma mill, a suspect knighthood, relied on vanity articles, demonstrated a clear ignorance of mathematics, physics, science while simultaneously claiming every sentence to be absolutely true, and so on. Please consider our real concerns.

Quote:
Hawkins is not the ONLY way, but he a modern way and speaks to the modern mind.

Hawkins is the only way when it comes to his entire AK system. You may reply that others ("over 200", i.e., an ad hoc hypothesis [ [skepdic.com] ] to rescue the pseudoscience [ [en.wikipedia.org] ] from refutation [ [en.wikipedia.org] ]) can use AK, but I am certain that you will admit that no calibrations carry as much weight (if any) as Hawkins'. If you are even more honest, you will admit that people's calibrations constantly contradict one another. Even more honest and you will admit to the times that you've notice Hawkins contradict is own "absolute" system. Even more honest you will admit that AK does not work.

Quote:
Just find that which resonates with you and then you will know that you have found the right teacher (for you).

4truth, what if I want to follow Sai Baba? What if he "resonates" for me. Yet, he is a pedophile. He makes cracker jack toys and rings appear, with parlor tricks and says it is divine. Is it okay to follow him?

What if I want to follow a teacher who calibrates below 200 per Hawkins, even though there is no evidence, but she resonates with me? Is it okay to follow her? Or would you not warn me, out of kindness, that Hawkins has calibrated her below 200?

Quote:
by what standards is a teacher right or wrong for a person?

There are objective criteria that have applied here. How do you personally decide if a teacher is "right or wrong for a person"?

Quote:
I can tell you that my experience of Hawkins is not of a Cult leader.

How do define "cult leader"? Does it fit the understanding that is being applied here?

Quote:
This is a relationship with the Holy Spirit and that is what he points to.

How do you define "Holy Spirit"? How does Hawkins point to it? Doesn't AK contradict this relationship? That is, when your heart says one thing, and Hawkins' AK says another -- what comes first for you? For others?

Quote:
In fact, he urges one to go within and ask God

I have seen him rely on AK and tell others to do the same.

Quote:
there is absolutely no control anywhere

There is mind control. ( [www.freedomofmind.com] )

Quote:
I can tell you that I am not in a cult and that I have never felt so free in my life!

I can tell you that virtually every cult member says the same thing. I am glad you are happy, though.

Quote:
I am assuming becasue you run this forum that you are naturally interested in having factual information that you can share with the public and it seems that the facts for at least your Hawkins portion, as I have not read much of anything else here, are not actually factual but based on your perception as well and that of others.

1) Rick Ross made no comment regarding Hawkins, but responded about "an objective measurement of a potentially unsafe leader or group," which could be considered regarding any leader or group.
2) Please provide evidence for your unsubstantiated claim that, "it seems that the facts for at least your Hawkins portion...are not actually factual but based on...perception..."

Quote:
It would seem that in order to have all the facts, that one would need to take into consideration that one might open up to see ALL sides of this issue.

Interesting. Please provide your side regarding Hawkins' degree coming from a diploma mill, and so on. How is this "perception" versus fact? And please also provide your "side" regarding why Hawkins never notes (to this day) that he received his Ph.D. from CPU, as every other author notes. Please do this for all of our real concerns, rather than the straw men that Hawkinazis set up.

Quote:
at least I have walked in these shoes to be able to determine for myself. I am not talking about something or someone I do not know.

I do know. I've also studied Hawkins, read all of his books, seen him live and on video, etc. I've also walked in these shoes. I can respond. Further, Ross and other cult experts are aware of how cults operate, and can certainly comment from their expertise without ever having been in a specific group themselves.

Quote:
Before I address your list, I will just say that subjective experience is all that we have...right?

Certainly not. Again, we are applying objective criteria here, not, "Oooh I feel happy when Hawkins tells me what to think."

Quote:
And that subjectively, I have observed that what Hawkins is saying is right-on when he speaks about spiritual states.

"Mystical Manipulation: Initiated from above, it seeks to provoke specific patterns of behavior and emotion in such a way that these will appear to have arisen spontaneously..."
[www.rickross.com]

Quote:
Again, not defending Hawkins here and I am not talking about things in the linear. I am talking about the non-linear spiritual awakenings that happen...

A big thing for Hawkins is to talk about the "linear" and the "nonlinear". Spiritually of course this is a false dilemma; e.g., "emptiness is form; form is emptiness" and "Nirvana and samsara are one" - the Buddha.

Quote:
I'm just telling you that when the spiritual world begins to open up and your teacher has pointed to the sights and you begin to see that you are experiencing that which he has shared due to being kind and loving, forgiving, radically honest...

Wow, I didn’t realize there are different types of “honest”. ((LOL)) Are you seriously claiming that Hawkins is not only honest, but [i:43f8d6ed1e]radically[/i:43f8d6ed1e] honest? Wow. I guess that “radically” part needs to be added when people lie. Have you actually read what has been posted here? Do you not have any concerns??? And you don’t think you are in a mind control cult? What if what has been written here were written about someone else, not your teacher? Then would it concern you, maybe just a teeny-weeny, itsy bitsy bit?

Quote:
...and in deep prayer with God...

Does Hawkins have a direct pipeline?

Quote:
he doesn't even know my name.

Wait a second – he doesn’t even know your name? How can he be “God” then? Even Santa Claus knows your name! It doesn’t sound like he’s “omniscient” to me! Couldn’t he magically ask his wife’s outstretched arm your name? That would be something! Then he could do it in front of James Randi, win $1 million and do something worthwhile like feed the hungry, or offer his “gifts” from God for free instead of thousands of dollars for all of his “gifts” on his website, not to mention his lectures.

Quote:
There is no fear of the future and no evil conspiracies coming from the mouth Hawkins.

What about "astrals" and being tempted to control worlds by Lucifer?

Quote:
LIke is everyone who wants to be a pro-golfer a Tiger-wood's cult member?

No. This is a straw man.

Quote:
There are no rules or dictates or "goods" or "bads".

Above 200, below 200, only associate with people above 200, etc.

Quote:
It's like going to a medical doctor over and over again for a scraped knee until one realizes that one has their own box of band aids in the cabinet.

So why study him at all, if you already have the band aids?

Quote:
This is not a fact [i:43f8d6ed1e]for me[/i:43f8d6ed1e].

We are using objective, not subjective, criteria.

Quote:
He has never indicated an us vs. them philosophy or mentality

Above 200, below 200, skeptics vs. spiritual, etc.

Quote:
I go there to learn about disecting mind/ego as I know he has done it.

How do you know?

Quote:
we do live in a free speech country

Hawkins is opposed to free speech. AK "revealed" most of it is lies. So he would prefer not to have free speech apparently.

Quote:
and I also have been urged to go within and ask the Holy Spirit for guidance as well.

I've never heard this. Isn't AK more important?

Quote:
and the Kingdom of God is found within and no where else, not even in one's teacher of choice.

One must rely on Hawkins with AK for the ultimate truth of his system.

Quote:
think about how Seinfeld has influenced the world with "Seinfeldisms"....I will personally purchase the $125 ticket for you [to see Hawkins]...

I’m supposed to see Jerry Seinfeld live soon. I’m sure it will at least be much more enlightening than a Hawkins lecture (and cheaper, imagine that!). Maybe you would like to purchase my enlightening Seinfeld ticket for me, 4truth?

Quote:
[i:43f8d6ed1e]I'm astounded by people who want to 'know' the universe when it's hard enough to find your way around Chinatown.[/i:43f8d6ed1e] -Woody Allen


Best wishes to you.

Radically yours,

Phoenix

Source http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,13156,20779

Oh Chris, you are in a cult :eek: no wonder your behaviour lately. Well I am sure you will calibrate me below 200 :pound: because I dared to criticize your idol but you should know this was comming, as Hawkings says...you started the ball rolling

And yes Hawkings knew Puharich de MKultra supremo, and also Uri Geller and Ron Hubbard, there are some people that says that his system is plagiarized from Scientology

Have a good day

greybeard
2nd June 2010, 12:15
oh dear oh dear Laughing.
By their works you will know them.
if you look at the organizations that Dr Hawkins has founded and is also part of you will see a track record of caring for others.
David R. Hawkins, M.D. Ph.D.
Sedona, Arizona, December 2001

This is what others have had to say about "Power vs. Force"

“A beautiful gift of writing… (You) spread joy, love, and compassion through what you
write. The fruit of these three is peace, as you know…”
—Mother Teresa, Templeton/Nobel Peace Prize recipient, anointed Blessed Teresa.

“Perhaps the most important and significant book I’ve read in the past ten years.”
—Dr. Wayne W. Dyer, motivational speaker and prolific best-selling author.

“…particularly timely… a significant contribution to understanding and dealing with the problems we face today.”
—Lee Iacocca, Former CEO of the Chrysler Corporation

“I especially appreciate the research and presentation on the attractor patterns of business…”
—Sam Walton, Founder/CEO of Wal-Mart

“Overwhelming! A masterpiece! A lifetime work!”
—Sheldon Deal, then President, International College of Applied Kinesiology

stardustaquarion
2nd June 2010, 12:29
oh dear oh dear Laughing.
By their works you will know them.
if you look at the organizations that Dr Hawkins has founded and is also part of you will see a track record of caring for others.
David R. Hawkins, M.D. Ph.D.
Sedona, Arizona, December 2001

This is what others have had to say about "Power vs. Force"

“A beautiful gift of writing… (You) spread joy, love, and compassion through what you
write. The fruit of these three is peace, as you know…”
—Mother Teresa, Templeton/Nobel Peace Prize recipient, anointed Blessed Teresa.

“Perhaps the most important and significant book I’ve read in the past ten years.”
—Dr. Wayne W. Dyer, motivational speaker and prolific best-selling author.

“…particularly timely… a significant contribution to understanding and dealing with the problems we face today.”
—Lee Iacocca, Former CEO of the Chrysler Corporation

“I especially appreciate the research and presentation on the attractor patterns of business…”
—Sam Walton, Founder/CEO of Wal-Mart

“Overwhelming! A masterpiece! A lifetime work!”
—Sheldon Deal, then President, International College of Applied Kinesiology

Logically he will be praised by some, but there are many that think his works are pseudoscientific and too close to the scientology methods which is a cult. Also notice that people are being separated from their families as being under 200 that is a clear sign of a cult and the fact that there is one head and that is Hawkings himself

It is amazing how much disinformation we are being feed as good and how many are into the MKultra thing

I don't know if you know but many are asked by their publishers to write reviews for fellow authors and of course they are as sincere as the Evening Standard

It is not personal

Love Chris

greybeard
2nd June 2010, 12:29
Who ever wrote the expose obviously doesnt have a clue about enlightenment or the work of Dr Diamond Kinesology is accepted as accurate but not everyone can do it.
It might be good idea to check out kinesology cant spell. It has a long history.
Dr Hawkins got the muscle testing method from studying Dr Diamonds work.

To be honest im not much interested in that its just used to calibrate that which is helpful or otherwise ie organic much healthier than non etc.

Honestly truth needs no defense it stands out.

As for you Stardust I think you are a lovely soul.

I shamelessly promote Dr Hawkins work -- not him. and of course other enlightened teachers and you give many opportunities to do so star you are a treasure.

All that aside I like your energy I know you care, your heart is good, -- what else really matters?

Love Chris

greybeard
2nd June 2010, 12:40
Dear Stardust
Mother teresa easily influenced Oh Yeah!!!
I have never ever heard a Saint write a foreword for a book before especially one who is not for religion per say
I would suggest you read the book for yourself but honestly its entirely up to you.
I dont mind.

Have a nice day.

With love and thanks from an old, much travelled on the spiritual highway, man.
oh I nerly said Highwayman Lol
high jacker supreme.
im beyond taking anything except my relationship with God seriously
We need a good laugh,
Chris

stardustaquarion
2nd June 2010, 12:52
Well Chirs I understand that it will be easy for you to brush this one under the carpet but you have given me no evidence that what these people are saying is not true. They say that Hawkings is kind of a cult and therefore is mind control.

I guess that you have no effective arguments that disprove what these people is saying I will have to consider putting this information in a more visible place because people needs to know what your agenda is and it is not ok that you are posting information from Hawkings in all threads. Threads are subject specific and are intended to discuss a topic, what you are doing is propaganda to Hawkings site, now if he is really running a cult it is called recruiting

Now you are quite forcefull about Hawkings this days and I do not appreciate it unless you clarify with evidence whether these people are wrong. They are from the Cult Education Forum and they think Hawkings is a rip off

I know that you may be doing this because you think is a good thing but I don't, I think threads should stick to topic and be sensitive to the subjects being discussed.

There is more to the universe than Hawkings specially if he is a rip off, no surprisingly he is nobility "Sir", that means that he is playing the agenda of the Illuminati

It is not personal to you, I think you mean well but that is not a excuse to spread mind pollution

Love (running above 560)

greybeard
2nd June 2010, 13:29
I cant comment on conversation that two people are having least its seems like a conversation.
I have read the books listened to the cds etc for five years and other teachers too.
Hawkins promotes the twelve step program of AA of which I have had personal life saving experience.
He recommends you go find a teacher that suits you so he is not saying he is the only teacher.
He worked hard as Psychiatrist helping many.
I went to see him at seminar Long Beach California.
Over 500 there.

After it was over I did not feel like leaving the room a few other just sat peacefully.
Hawkins came out and went round shaking hands, mine included, he is very small -- about five foot and frail in his 80s now.

now here is the thing Star I have always had a great fear of heights, standing on a kitchen chair was an ordeal.
Anyway there is a carousel at long beach goes up about 100ft, a friend asked me to go up in it with her.
Without hesitation I got in it up we went no fear.
Something happened unasked for.
Now in his book he talks of people being healed by the presence, seems it happened to me,
Further more an elderly friend of my late aunt whom I did not know was sitting beside me in church at aunts funeral, I felt energy move out of my side.
After the funeral she approached me and said she felt energy come into her had I experienced anything.
A few weeks later she called me to say that she was scheduled to have a big operation on her spine but on the latest scan there was no trace of the problem what so ever.
That was soon after my visit to America.
I cant explain that rationally .

This is what Moxie posted on your thread Re: The infiltration of the New Age Movement and Andrija Puharich

I do love the way that David Hawkins presents what is required
In order to even be deceived… that is, our basic Innocence, Awareness within Consciousness.

These are my own words unless you find something in quotations, which are Dr. Hawkins, quoted from Healing and Recovery.

If as a child, you were taught that blue is green, it was because of your state of innocence that you learned this. The innocence of consciousness itself.

That Innocence is still within you. You are Not the beliefs that you hold, you are not your thoughts, you are not your fears, You are not your body.

Dr Hawkins speaks on about how the physical body, all by itself, cannot know itself.
Your arm has no way of experiencing its armness. Sensations of the body are occurring in the mind which cannot experience itself either. A thought cannot experience its thoughtness without something even greater, consciousness. And ultimately it’s one’s awareness within consciousness that experiences everything.

If a part of your brain were cut out, or anesthetized, there is no consciousness to be aware of what is going on in that brain/mind. Consciousness is Higher than body or mind, but would you say that consciousness still exists even tho now that particular brain is not reporting anything? Yes, because not only is the body still breathing, but other people report what’s going on in their body. It’s the Awareness within Consciousness that is unavailable to that anesthetized brain… yet consciousness still exists, it’s simply not exclusively localized in that one brain.

The state of awareness, an aspect of a greater, powerful energy field behind consciousness is the energy of Life itself… the Source. That state of awareness is not restricted by commonly held beliefs. But commonly held beliefs do bring forth consequences that are experienced by conscious awareness in this existence through your brain & your physical body.

Quote: “We can compare the consciousness of the child [or adult] to the hardware of a computer, and the programming coming in from the social consciousness of the world itself is the software. We see that in the computer, the hardware, which is intrinsically innocent, is uncontaminated by the software.”

A person’s beliefs are likened to the software in the state of conscious awareness, the hardware, the permanent innocence. “It is the intrinsic innocence of one’s consciousness that is listening, reading, trying to tune itself in to what is real… innocence is unchanged…it never leaves”.

“The reaffirmation of our innocence consists of never buying that anything is ‘just’ ego; there is no such thing as ‘just’ ego. Ego, the software, social consciousness, and the programming have merely been superimposed on that which is not ego but on truth itself, consciousness itself. All spiritual crises come from context, meaning, and the way in which a thing is held.”

Certain levels of consciousness have painful consequences. Commonly held beliefs, whether religious, spiritual, political, medical, beliefs about your own nature … all bring forth consequences that include conflict & discord when practiced. Everything is brought up into awareness in order for conscious awareness itself to be recognized & experienced as being Innocent and above the beliefs that are being superimposed over it. We fail to recognize that beliefs are not truth because we‘ve not recognized the intrinsic nature of conscious awareness itself as the only Truth we can know. Consequences & outcomes tell you how close to Truth you are if & because Truth, (God) Innocence is free of guilt, shame, sin, evil, the definition of innocent, look it up.

Consider your software, your beliefs, what affiliations you have w/religions, politics, food choice, purchasing… what consequences arise out of those affiliations, are they for the good of all beings? Are they divisive or inclusive? Do they put you in the exclusive “in club”, you have found the truth while others are lost or deluded? What is the outcome of having many different religions, of claiming you have the True one? What is the outcome of having different political parties or the existing monetary system? What is the outcome of participating in any war, whether it’s the war on drugs, on cancer, on people? Is every one having a meal today or a roof over their head? In what ways are we Truly connected?

Where have the commonly held beliefs taken us? Perhaps “beliefs” are anesthetizing so that conscious awareness cannot get through.

The Truth is, we are all in this together. There is not one that is chosen over another. Nothing is lost ever. Any belief that tells you that some will go this way while others will go that way, is fundamentally flawed because it is by its nature divisive. It has to be if Truth is universal, unified. Conscious awareness, GodMind.

Hope this is not off topic on a thread that is being “closed”… I felt compelled to share this while it probably still needs more contemplation & editing.. and it’s been a couple of hours of contemplation for me this morning and I have to get on with my day. We have all recognized that we have been infiltrated w/erroneous beliefs maybe for the sole purpose of seeing this and ask as Stardust so often reminds us in her signature... and to question everything, examine ones' self ... right action is the one with the fewest choices that apply to all!

Now these are first hand experiences my Friend I have related not gossip.
Much love and thanks for you valid questions
Chris

rosie
2nd June 2010, 13:41
We are all on the same journey here, sharing and comparing notes, from each individual's perspective.
We are not here to convert, or sway another's opinion. We are here for each other. Now, especially now,
we need to support each other, even if we do not follow the other's ideals.

Like a family, we are growing together, learning together, and most importantly, challenging each other to grow beyond our own ideals, so that we may learn more empathy and compassion while opening up our souls to a bigger vision, instead of becoming stale in our own thoughts.

Respect each others words, as you hope they will respect yours. Negativity is a killer, and it starts in the mind, and comes out in the mouth to hurt others. It is our thoughts that require attention. To rid the mind of negativity, is the first step to our freedom. Ask yourself, why did I think what I just thought. What was the reason I thought it? What was I going to do with that thought? What is the purpose to this thinking? If you find the reason for the thought, and work on the reason, you will not have to deal with it's negative impact that may arise if spoken.

If more of us actually worked on improving ourselves, we would not be so busy trying to improve others.
By allowing others to travel their own path, whether it be in this forum or in our own families, we give the gift of freedom, which to me is pretty cool.

This is my thought for the day.
in love & light :wub:

stardustaquarion
2nd June 2010, 13:53
Chris

I understand what you say but I also have to consider what other people say with regard to Hawkings, regardless of his age, it does not mean that there is a twist on his teachings after all they all shared notes with Puharich and he was a very dangerous and deceitful man which is the reason I started the other thread

What you say does not fill the gaps for me and I am seriusly contemplating the information the Cult organization has given. I don't like the fact that he considers three quarters of the population under 200, that and saying that people are animals are the same. That is more than 5 billion people. This is very divisive and the typical cult behaviour "we are better than you" "we are over 200"

Whatever experiences you may have had, that is your creation, you don't owe them to anyone but to your own beautiful self.

In life we take what it is useful for us and discard the rest, there is no need to advertise Hawkings in every single thread of this forum, you owe him nothing Chris. All that you are, you have created for yourself

Love

greybeard
2nd June 2010, 14:02
I agree Rosie which is why I share here.
Some times because I care tough love comes into play unasked for that is true.
I dont claim I know very often I will say this is my understanding of the moment.
Non interference in others karma is good but if I saw a child about to step out in font of a bus then I would act.
I like taking risks but one thing I dont do is take risks with my soul.
I suggest devotion only to God a and respect for all others even those who unknowingly prompting new age philosophy contaminated by the lower astral.
They do this and they are very clever, many a good loving person has been led astray.
I am not talking about recent threads here for I dont know where the teaching comes from there.
im suggesting stay with the teachings of those who are enlightened, many to pick from since time began, all saying the same thing, some presentation differences because of era or culture but the same thing.
Basically Love God , Love your fellow man, God who created you is within all.
Thanks Rosie
Namaste

greybeard
2nd June 2010, 14:41
Chris

I understand what you say but I also have to consider what other people say with regard to Hawkings, regardless of his age, it does not mean that there is a twist on his teachings after all they all shared notes with Puharich and he was a very dangerous and deceitful man which is the reason I started the other thread

What you say does not fill the gaps for me and I am seriusly contemplating the information the Cult organization has given. I don't like the fact that he considers three quarters of the population under 200, that and saying that people are animals are the same. That is more than 5 billion people. This is very divisive and the typical cult behaviour "we are better than you" "we are over 200"

Whatever experiences you may have had, that is your creation, you don't owe them to anyone but to your own beautiful self.

In life we take what it is useful for us and discard the rest, there is no need to advertise Hawkings in every single thread of this forum, you owe him nothing Chris. All that you are, you have created for yourself

Love

Thank you for you kind words they are appreciated.
I agree with you in that I was healing others before the event with Hawkins but nothing healed me.
Because I have been on the path so long over thirty years, I dont take anything any one says as truth.
Everything I learned from Hawkins is an extension of what other teacher have said and I only keep what I can personally validate.
In order to understand the comments and calibrations they have to be taken in context of the evolution of consciousness.
Dr Hawkins is very clear no level is better than another, all are levels we decide to work on in this life time.
Its just a school, some classes teach more advanced like your AD her students are no better or worse than others.
Nothing but good has come from the teachings of Dr Hawkins for me.
It started with AA, moved on to Yoga classes, Sai Baba, Raman, Yogananda, Kundalini Guru the late Dr Goels Rames Balsakar, Mantak Chia, the Gita, Anthony De Mello, Yogananda, Eckhart of course for many years, Hawkins, They come they go teaching much the same my understanding evolving through cross checking nothing taken for granted no blind following. The teaching not the teacher. God Reigns Supreme in my life He guides me ultimately.
Hawkins came as the rest did by sycronicity. I all ways resist. If Im supposed to go thee it comes at me comes at me comes at me from different directions, thats my test

All I can say Star is Read the book its not expensive then you get the whole thing in context.
Then come back and say its rubbish otherwise. You owe it to yourself to be true to you not listening to gossip dont take the word of those who have not read the teaching. Bear in mind to that he is an enemy of the lower astral a great threat to them and they would do anything to blacken his teachings.
Regards Chris

stardustaquarion
2nd June 2010, 14:48
Chris I could say the same of those that criticize Asha but no one is going to listen.

I had a similar experience with Asha's teachings, I was suffering from fibromyalgia that had me incapacitated for more than 10 years, and few months after I started to do the techniques in the Azurite website all the pain was gone!

I tell you, like you I have been around and read about a thousand books, I myself a ligh body teacher but nothing will make me better, could heal others but not myself. Funny how things happen sometimes, perhaps in a way I have the same gratitude for Asha that you have for Hawkings, I was in agony I tell you, some days I could not even walk. If these were the days it would have been called a miracle.

Thank you for the explanation, If I have the opportunity I will investigate his work in more detail

It is being interesting getting to know you a bit better

Love Stardust

Moxie
2nd June 2010, 14:59
You have to admit that from the time we come into this world, we are told that we are fundamentally flawed creatures, defective, lacking ... if not from religions, from other gurus & teachers...

Our beings are not honored but always contrasted to something otherworldy not human
which is perfect and we are not! And look out into the world and you see the divisiveness that has resulted, the boundaries here, there, everywhere... yet we insist on creating more.

So yes... here we are each w/their own beliefs... and there are a lot of problems in our world.
My post that Graybeard cut n pasted has to do with the ultimate perspective of the big, big picture, not what's going on in the world. The Big Big picture being that of our Source... Conscious Awareness itself. Everyone has it just by being alive... can we honor that?

I want to add here that I think a major problem in this world has to do with the fundamental MESSAGE we get from all different directions, that HUMANS are FLAWED. And I'm sick n tired of it. If you don't get the message from churchianity, religulousness (lol), you get it from "enlightened" OTHERS... you have to transcend your ego or you have to upgrade your DNA... it's always something to remind us that we are somehow broken. Humans are so dishonored and invalidated that we take up drinking or drugging or joining this or that to this life, feelings of worthlessness.... Someone is always telling us where the truth is but not many are out there doing anything but sitting on the butts preaching this or that.

We are emotional beings, all honest emotions are healthy! Even anger, even rage, even hopelessness & despair... humans need to support one another, assist one another, get down to basics, there's a lot of pain going on and all we're told is that we are DEFECTIVE....RIGHT NOW WE HAVE AN EMERGENCY W/THE OIL GUSHER... a major emergency and we are all so distracted with "where the truth is".... How egoic is THAT?

stardustaquarion
2nd June 2010, 15:19
I agree with much of what you say Moxie, and perhaps one of the reason I like the teachings that I am following is because they are self empowering, it is up to me what I do with my life and I can chose whether to go forth or backwards, knowing that source loves me now as I am, and that as I am, I am perfect now and all is perfect too as it is a perfect manifestation of our combined thoughts and beliefs

We have been conditioned to believe we are no good and hence we are kind of waiting to be punished and give our power away to the "experts" which are better than us and again. What I am studiying says that we are all equal and no matter whether a being decides to express the path of de-evolution that being is equally loved. It actually gave me great peace to know that and that nothing is lost for all is inside source

And so I am learning to love myself as I am now, and learning to direct my thoughts in the direction of my desires rather than the fear of not getting there

Regarding the oil situation I think that it is manifesting in our reality because it is something we deeply fear or may be feeling guilty because we use oil and the propaganda has been non stop about global warming. It does not matter whether is was created or natural, it has manifested and now we need to think how we help each other including the wild life that is being killed. What is, is.

Much Love xx

greybeard
2nd June 2010, 15:25
You have to admit that from the time we come into this world, we are told that we are fundamentally flawed creatures, defective, lacking ... if not from religions, from other gurus & teachers...

Our beings are not honored but always contrasted to something otherworldy not human
which is perfect and we are not! And look out into the world and you see the divisiveness that has resulted, the boundaries here, there, everywhere... yet we insist on creating more.

So yes... here we are each w/their own beliefs... and there are a lot of problems in our world.
My post that Graybeard cut n pasted has to do with the ultimate perspective of the big, big picture, not what's going on in the world. The Big Big picture being that of our Source... Conscious Awareness itself. Everyone has it just by being alive... can we honor that?

I want to add here that I think a major problem in this world has to do with the fundamental MESSAGE we get from all different directions, that HUMANS are FLAWED. And I'm sick n tired of it. If you don't get the message from churchianity, religulousness (lol), you get it from "enlightened" OTHERS... you have to transcend your ego or you have to upgrade your DNA... it's always something to remind us that we are somehow broken. Humans are so dishonored and invalidated that we take up drinking or drugging or joining this or that to this life, feelings of worthlessness.... Someone is always telling us where the truth is but not many are out there doing anything but sitting on the butts preaching this or that.

We are emotional beings, all honest emotions are healthy! Even anger, even rage, even hopelessness & despair... humans need to support one another, assist one another, get down to basics, there's a lot of pain going on and all we're told is that we are DEFECTIVE....RIGHT NOW WE HAVE AN EMERGENCY W/THE OIL GUSHER... a major emergency and we are all so distracted with "where the truth is".... How egoic is THAT?

Hi Moxie I agree with you regarding the oil disaster..
However I for one are sending prayer.
God grant me the serenity etc


The Guru knows you are perfect and that when illusion is removed then your perfection stands out illumined.
The Ego is not you and causes misery and suffering.
No ego no problem.
Its that simple.
Love Chris

stardustaquarion
2nd June 2010, 15:28
There is no EGO Chris :laugh:

greybeard
2nd June 2010, 15:33
Chris I could say the same of those that criticize Asha but no one is going to listen.

I had a similar experience with Asha's teachings, I was suffering from fibromyalgia that had me incapacitated for more than 10 years, and few months after I started to do the techniques in the Azurite website all the pain was gone!

I tell you, like you I have been around and read about a thousand books, I myself a ligh body teacher but nothing will make me better, could heal others but not myself. Funny how things happen sometimes, perhaps in a way I have the same gratitude for Asha that you have for Hawkings, I was in agony I tell you, some days I could not even walk. If these were the days it would have been called a miracle.

Thank you for the explanation, If I have the opportunity I will investigate his work in more detail

It is being interesting getting to know you a bit better

Love Stardust

Stardust I wish you had shared that earlier.
Im glad you have though,
Personal experience says so much more to me than a 10000 good videos.
Yes now we can really enjoy our little differences and they really amount to nothing in the scheme of things.
Im glad we got to know each other better.
Take care not that you need to
Love Chris

greybeard
2nd June 2010, 15:43
There is no EGO Chris :laugh:

You win I surrender.
I dont mind.
Love c
Ps your right I haven't got one Lol

stardustaquarion
2nd June 2010, 16:02
You win I surrender.
I dont mind.
Love c
Ps your right I haven't got one Lol

There you are Chris

http://edp.org/bin/Alegio.jpg

My favourite

Glad to have found a friend

Love Stardust

greybeard
2nd June 2010, 17:53
Twelve Killed 25 injured
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/10214661.stm

Taxi Driver goes on the rampage in Cumbria UK

Just madness.
Tolle said there would be increasing madness
Dident know where else to post this

truthseekerdan
3rd June 2010, 05:13
There is no EGO Chris :laugh:

Wishful thinking Star* :)
We have all been taught to let your mind make the decisions and not to listen to your heart. Your mind after all, is a terrific machine and can work anything out. Ego is this barrier between the heart and the mind. The need to express your views on a given subject -- because you 'know' it to be right, regardless of whether people want to listen or not. Ignoring the feelings of others because your actions are the 'right' actions to take. These are both examples of the Ego at work. Both examples of our need to 'control'. The Ego thinks it knows best. The voice of the heart doesn't stand a chance.

We have not been taught that what is simple is what is right. The universe operates simply. Balance and harmony in the natural world, in the animal world. Any world that does not have Ego, operates very simply. It seems the goal of spiritual beliefs to return us to our connection to that universe, (Source) to our Eternity so that we, too, can live simply, in balance and harmony with all that is. If indeed this is the goal, the purpose of that goal, the purpose of letting go of ego, is to also let go of the constant fear and attachments in which we all live.

Love, to transcend and then ascend... ~ Dan ~ :wub:

greybeard
3rd June 2010, 17:30
More on the illusory non existent ego smiling.
The Heisenberg Principal is, that which is observed by consciousness is changed.
Only observation is necessary, an awareness that is beyond thought holds the power.
Its a very complex subject which Hawkins goes into in some depth.
The kinesology technique that backs up Dr Hawkins subjective experience connects to the field of consciousness in which every event though and deed since time began is recorded. Using the test there is a yes or non yes response to a statement. Basically anything that does not exist, is not supportive of life, is an illusion, causes the muscle to go weak and everything that is true/ life supporting causes the muscle to be strong.
For various reasons only about 15% of the populous can use this test with accuracy.
Now the ego
The thought that I am a me is very powerful because we are infatuated with the me story.
Anything that comes and goes is not Truth. Ultimate Truth is unchanging. Truth cant change.
Thoughts have a wave form but they are not us. till we identify with the thought as mine.
Eckhart Tolle says Descartes had it backwards. "I AM THEREFORE I THINK" is more correct.
Its very complex unless you are very precise in the context of a statement.
What is true from one view point, at one level of understanding is not true at another.
Ultimate truth is only God is.
Then its a step down principal.
Very top is Ultimate God who is pure love and does nothing.
Next is God of creation who is busy moment by moment.
There are the Angels
There are the Avatars
There are the enlightened
Then there is the human race in various levels of vibration from Saints - unconditional love,
all the way down to the
serial child killer.
All these have there personal vibration, an energy field.
So the ego seems very powerful because we believe it to be so, only the power of God can remove that illusion.
Namaste.
Chris

greybeard
3rd June 2010, 22:35
We dont actually have to think we need to be aware -- thats different
We can see a beautiful sunset be awe struck and then the ego compares.
Yes but the one last Thursday was better,
All of a sudden the beautiful sunset is lost to consciousness because I am deep in thought in mind analyzing.
The ego cant stand to be ignored, to take second place to a beautiful sunset, it has to be center stage all of the time.
Its all about ME.
All little examination will show this to be true.

Ramesh had a good way of looking at it.
He said you will always have a working mind that takes care of things to be done, it is totally focused in the present moment doing.
You will know what you need to know.
You will know what to do.
The emotional mind is not necessary.
One can experience great joy sadness all things with out being emotional about it which is a different thing all together.
Compassion arises right action happens.
I dont need ego to experience with love compassion and sensitivity.
I need to get me out of it to really listen to another.
The ego filters, accesses comparable info so you dont get new experiences everything is tainted by comparrison with past events, it judges files away is very mechanistic.

A question that comes often. But don't we need the emotion of fear?
I don't need fear to tell me not to step in front of bus. Fear paralyzes makes me infective.
All I need is common sense, life trains me what is supportive and what is dangerous to my survival.
Only ego feels hurt, is a victim or perpetrator.
Its not an enemy it just does not know any other way.
It can be tamed with love, then transcended.

Chris

shiva777
3rd June 2010, 22:52
your ego sure needs to say alot Chris...give it a rest...

greybeard
3rd June 2010, 23:11
Dear Shiva777
Its all a matter of opinion
The ego thread has rumbled on for over two years between original PA and here.
It continually gets viewers.
It takes time and effort to answer queries.
It takes time to post.
If I hadn't had a lot of support and encouragement I would have given up a long time ago.
I was requested to come and start the thread here by people who felt they had benefited in Avalon
Have a look at my profile page thats just a few comments, loads of e mails
The thread is not mine as such I just started it, Many have contributed all with different points of view.
My ego is still work in progress but the benefits have been amazing. Im easy about being wrong.
My mind is virtually silent.
Fear has left me.
Im sober.
Life is good and I care deeply about others not so fortunate.
I have never claimed to have it right and its my understanding of the moment I share.
Im happy for you to share Shiva 777 if you feel inclined.
Regards and best wishes.
Chris

Moxie
3rd June 2010, 23:13
edited to remove post

greybeard
3rd June 2010, 23:28
Hi Shirley
the important thing is that you are aware, you will always be aware.
Keep it simple. That which looks through the eyes is exactly the same as looked through the eyes the first time they opened. That existed before Shirley and will exist after Shirley is no more.
If you really think about it you do not feel any older -- wiser yes, older no.
We really just observe things going on.
It was a big Ah Ha moment when I was playing in the band as a teenager, all of a sudden I realized I was watching my hands move hearing the sounds of my bass but I was not consciously doing it. My thought was Am I playing the guitar or is it playing me?
Kundalini will burn of all past karma one way or another. Just surrender to what happens and enjoy the ride though it is bumpy at times.

We are waves of the Divine Ocean individual streams of consciousness
Love C

greybeard
4th June 2010, 00:16
The last question deserves a little more in the way of answer.
Take it that we are all atoms in movement each soul having a unique vibration with the potential to evolve to a higher vibration..
When this earth is let behind we find our selves not judged at all regardless of the vibration we are at..
God sets things up in total fairness.
If we have reached the high vibration frequency of the state of enlightenment (freedom from ignorance) then we head off to higher celestial realms to progress further on our journey back home.
Those who have not reached that vibration on the death of the body will go to a heaven corresponding to their vibration, Its totally automatic, Jesus said in my Fathers House are many mansions.
There is no judgment needed. its Karmic, that which you do moment to moment adjusts your vibrancy either up or down.

Nothing goes unnoticed. A murderer may not be caught but that act lowers the vibration and consequently on death he/she will not find themselves in a pleasant place. No one gets of scott free, there is no need for us to get even or punish, though it is safer to imprison some for the protection of all.
We all get our just deserts as the saying goes.

We can usefully make a spritual intention to be kind to all life including our own no matter what.

I sometimes smile at the comments about spirituality,
It very practical, its not about feel good, wish washy hearts and roses. Its balanced head and heart.
Its some times tough love, its self discipline, its real compassion. Its realistic. It seeks to serve the community before self.
Its certainly not head in the sand, its enjoying life to the full moment by moment.
It does what it takes to get the job done and yes some times that is sitting on a park bench being totally at peace with the world and everything in it.
Love Chris

Ps if you are new to the subject it may help to read the very first page.

truthseekerdan
4th June 2010, 15:20
My friends, thank you for your support in making this world a better place for all. :)
I would like to share this fine video with everybody that visits here. :wub:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5m3AyZGz9Y&feature=player_embedded

greybeard
4th June 2010, 16:52
Thanks for sharing the video Dan

The reason I am attracted to the teachings of DH is that he is so down to earth.
He said
"Many more would have been enlightened by now if they hadn't put their teacher on a pedestal.
The teacher has a responsibility to the students not the other way around."
Think that says it all.
Chris

greybeard
4th June 2010, 22:26
”What the ego cannot lift with all its might is like a feather to the Grace of God.” (Transcending the Levels of Consciousness, p. 56) David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D.



“Straight and narrow is the path…Waste no time.”--- Dr. David R. Hawkins

greybeard
5th June 2010, 08:23
It can be quite confusing/
The watter is muddied by excessive analyzing spiritual teaching.
All teachers say the ego must be transcended - then disagree as to how to go about it.
When one commits to seeking God through the path of enlightenment then all that is not of God comes up within you to be recognized made friends with and let go of.
Its not you but part of the ego and you/we are responsible for its actions.
Love Chris

greybeard
5th June 2010, 10:32
A Course in Miracles
Is one of the greatest tools for removing all conditioning, programing, fear.
The daily lessons are simple but not easy.
Lesson 34 I could see peace instead of this
( I could see peace in this situation instead of what I now see.)

I went to a study group at The Findhorn Foundation for over a year.
They were the most peace loving free, compassionate, individuals I have ever met.
Several had been members of the Foundation for over twenty years.
People from all over the world would come to Findhorn for a few weeks and appear at the study group.
They all had similar stories of how the lessons had improved their lives greatly.

The ego hates the course because it give one freedom in the place that really counts --- in the mind.
No agitation just right action, compassion.
The course is very clear, we are all Christ, we are all one. We never left that oneness.

Its very easy to see whether something is life supporting or other wise.
You can tell by the fruits.
Are the people associated with the teaching at ease, free to express themselves, do they have peace of mind?
Do they express peace love and harmony and act accordance with that?
I have found that with very few exceptions (newcomers) all students without exception have expressed gratitude for the insights the course has given them, it has literaliy changed their lives for the better.

I laugh when I see people who have never had direct experience of the course, via a study group, knocking it.
They are taking some one else's word invariably and who is programed now?
Whos teachers preach separation? -- claim you sovereignty sounds great but in reality only God is Sovereign.
We are all equal in that fullness.
The last resort of the ego is specialness.
Thats a quote from A Course in Miracles.
We are all One. Specialness promotes superiority, Edge God Out.

Love Chris

greybeard
5th June 2010, 12:01
Co creator sounds good.
We have done great as creators so far, 95% of history is about War. Nothing to do with a Loving God.
We are great creators? I dont think.
The vanity of man.

One simple question.
Did you co-create you?
Did you co-create the air that you breath and every other thing that you need just to survive?
No God did freely for our benefit.
The ego loves to think it could create a better world, It was given the chance and what is the result?
The starving of other countries the wars you name it all human greed, not sharing, all down to the "me first" attitude of the ego.
When the individual is aligned with God great things happen.
Beautiful art, uplifting music, all thats is life supporting.
Everything that the ego creates is toxic and life threatening.

Being humble before God is nothing other than healthy respect for our Father.
Do we expect respect from our children?
Do we get it?
Did we give respect to I am That which created us and gives us everything we need?

My experience is. What we give we get.

love Chris

greybeard
7th June 2010, 22:27
The Abraham teachings (Ester and Jerry Hicks) are well worth looking in to.
Getting in the vortex and going with the stream well explained.
Its about aligning one self with your true, self Higher Self.
Chris

Astar Of David
9th June 2010, 11:08
My understanding of the Ego is that it is NOT mans own voice in his head it is a 3rd party voice. Just as you hear the voice of reason as a 3rd party voice. Why do I say 3rd party? Because you can converse with the voices.
The ego voice is the one that makes no logical sense to me there for it is not my own because I am a logical thinker.
Long story short I've lived my life of love... I lived by my heart helping others caring sharing ect and yet I got negative feedback, it made no sense , it was as if I was cursed. So I set off on a path to understand everything about the world. I began to learn. I spent my life learning instead of working. During my experiences I began to realize that the curse and voice I had around me was the voice of The Nephilim / Fallen Angels / Anakim / Anti-Christ.
And they do not just interfere with mans minds whispering words but they also effect mans will.

Have you seen Donnie Darko? This concept is in that film. Very well done movie.
The "beast/bunny/frank/ego" talks to Donnie and makes Donnie do bad deeds.
Donnie even states to frank "why did you make me flood the school?" The basic concept about "frank the ego" in this movie is true.
Come judgment day you will all see what the Ego truly is.

greybeard
9th June 2010, 11:38
Fear of judgment day is just another religious concept.
My thoughts of the moment are.

Fear of God
A loving God does not judge you as a sinner and then throws you into the pits of hell.

We are judge and jury we choose our own destination after death.

My understanding of the way it automatically happens is.

Through every choice, decision, action, we influence our spiritual vibration, then we either move closer to God or further away.
When we die we are the sum total of all these thoughts words and deeds and therefore have a unique spiritual vibration.
If the vibration is high (light and rapid positive) we move to celestial realms. In my Fathers house are many mansions.
If the vibration is low, (heavy negative and slow) we move to more dense realms.
Every action has consequences.
Fear is not of God. He doent need it.
Love attracts fear repels.
Accepting that those of a low vibration turn it upside down, They fear love.
Thanks for your contribution.
Astar of David

Astar Of David
9th June 2010, 11:46
I did not state that Judgment day was Judgment, it is placement. Thus it depends on how you perceive it.
It is to separate the positives from the negatives. To place them with other like minded/spirited people. Not to judge them.

greybeard
9th June 2010, 11:59
I did not state that Judgment day was Judgment, it is placement. Thus it depends on how you perceive it.
It is to separate the positives from the negatives. To place them with other like minded/spirited people. Not to judge them.

Didn't quote you Astar as my thoughts are in line with yours, you just triggered what I wrote, which is aligned to your point of view.
Just thanked you for your post without referring to it..

Sorry if you thought I had miss-understood.

I like the word placement.

Regards Chris

RedeZra
9th June 2010, 12:45
My understanding of the Ego is that it is NOT mans own voice in his head it is a 3rd party voice.

And they do not just interfere with mans minds whispering words but they also effect mans will.



there are thoughts

which are like threads weaving a veil

to obscure Reality

interference of external emotions and thoughts

happens all the time

some more forceful and powerful than others

so it's good to be aware and vigilant of this

truthseekerdan
9th June 2010, 15:34
My understanding of the Ego is that it is NOT mans own voice in his head it is a 3rd party voice. Just as you hear the voice of reason as a 3rd party voice. Why do I say 3rd party? Because you can converse with the voices.
The ego voice is the one that makes no logical sense to me there for it is not my own because I am a logical thinker.


A picture's worth a thousand words. :)

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa77/nanasadd/Love%20and%20Light/wolves-331.jpg

greybeard
9th June 2010, 16:01
Thanks Dan I see we are all home here once again now where is Beren?
He owes me a pint of ginger beer.
It would be great if Celine and Kriya could join us.
The good wolf is well fed in all of us.
Oh thats ego Lol
Its a smart animal it can sneak in with out you being aware, but I caught it this time.
Thanks to all contributors here. You make my day.
C

RedeZra
9th June 2010, 16:01
A picture's worth a thousand words. :)


that is a nice picture Dan and so true

the wolves want the attention of the will

it is in our hands to feed or starve the vices and the virtues

so it's no excuse to say the devil made me do it

in time the starving wolf will leave

frank samuel
9th June 2010, 16:29
Thanks Dan I see we are all home here once again now where is Beren?
He owes me a pint of ginger beer.
It would be great if Celine and Kriya could join us.
The good wolf is well fed in all of us.
Oh thats ego Lol
Its a smart animal it can sneak in with out you being aware, but I caught it this time.
Thanks to all contributors here. You make my day.
C

Hello to everyone specially you Chris , I am just stopping by to say hi . Getting out of the vicious cycle of blame to that of self responsibility is the way in my opinion to nip our ego in the beehive. I ask myself each and everyday how could I become a contributor to my environment and surrounding to give thanks for all the beautiful things we are provided for each day. This Earth is here for the enjoyment of all and I give thanks to it for supplying us with the oxygen we breath, the food we eat the beautiful scenery that surrounds us . By raising our consciousness and the power of our hearts we can help to protect our temporary home, Mother Earth, after all we are the guest, this planet has been a very gracious host to the human race.

Many many blessings to all.:wub:

greybeard
9th June 2010, 16:47
Hello to everyone specially you Chris , I am just stopping by to say hi . Getting out of the vicious cycle of blame to that of self responsibility is the way in my opinion to nip our ego in the beehive. I ask myself each and everyday how could I become a contributor to my environment and surrounding to give thanks for all the beautiful things we are provided for each day. This Earth is here for the enjoyment of all and I give thanks to it for supplying us with the oxygen we breath, the food we eat the beautiful scenery that surrounds us . By raising our consciousness and the power of our hearts we can help to protect our temporary home, Mother Earth, after all we are the guest, this planet has been a very gracious host to the human race.

Many many blessings to all.:wub:

Oh Frank I am really glad you turned up.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Everything that you so lovingly express is a reflection of you own self.
Its good to be back here doing a bit of sharing
Love c

greybeard
10th June 2010, 00:12
The ego hates the thought of surrender, It believes it is sovereign,
Sovereign ultimately means "I can do without God" EDGE GOD OUT.
Many come to AA and they have a real problem with the concept of surrender to a power greater than one self.
Frankly its no big deal.
For me surrender simply means I cant do this on my own, please help me.
Admitting that help is needed takes humility and that is the first step to recovery.
One can have a very healthy self esteem and accept that assistance is required.
Self esteem is not ego.

Chris

greybeard
10th June 2010, 19:36
The disciples sought Enlightenment, but did not know what it was or how it was attainable.
Said the Master, "It cannot be attained". You cannot get hold of it."
Seeing the disciples' downcast look, the Master said,
"Don't be distressed. You cannot lose it either."
And to this day the disciples are in search of that which
can neither be lost nor taken hold of.

~ Anthony de Mello,
I learned a lot from his book "Awareness."
All that is said in the quote is so.

Belief in the illusory ego is the obstacle to revealing that which is inherent within me, not elsewhere, not to be found elsewhere.
I am trying to be very precise with my words.

If I want to play golf really well I go to a master class on golf when I am ready for it.
I may start of with a friend who plays showing me the rudiments, if I get a thirst for it I go to a professional and on, always seeking to improve by listening to a golfer who is further on in the game that I. Even professional sports people have coaches to keep them on track.

I didn't even know there was an illusion till I started on a spiritual path through AA
I listen intently to those who were sober I wanted what they had so desperately.
Then with a degree of serenity I wanted more of the peace I found there.
The books by Indian sages came next, that was a shock but I knew in my spiritual heart that it was so.
Everything I know was within me but needed confirmed, awakened, by a spiritual teacher.
AA is about personal house cleaning, spiritual growth, sometimes it is vital to get seemingly outside help.
The Grace of the Guru is legendary.

If the car battery is flat what do I do? I get a jump start from a car that is running on full power.
I want my light to shine as brightly is possible so I am endeavoring to remove internal mental emotional obstacles, lots of times I need help.
I at least have enough humility to ask.
That may come in the form of a teacher appropriate to my needs. It comes through praying to God who is both immanent (within) and transcendent (outwith). Transecendent is the Provence of the religious. Immanent is Provence of the Mystic.

So what the late Anthony de Mello a Jesuit Priest says is so, it nearly got him excommunicated.
His books not to be sold in Catholic shops during his life time anyway.

RedeZra
11th June 2010, 03:55
once when young

a thought suddenly struck

that I will die

and I don't know why


so I set out to solve it


it's not easy to get lost in life

with a sting of death in the side


it's not a fear but a quest

Astar Of David
11th June 2010, 22:28
Humilitas occidit superbiam "humility kills pride"

greybeard
13th June 2010, 08:24
The Powers That Be.
The moment I hear or read that I cringe for I know that propaganda is going to follow,
What or who exactly are the powers that be?
The Government? Well we voted them in.
The Government provide hospitals, schooling, help for he elderly, fire men, police much maligned but they have a difficult job.
Roads, water sewage disposal, so many things that we take for granted.
They are not the enemy, not saying that everything they do is right.
If there is an enemy its those who wish to destabilize the community part of which is Government.
Fear and unrest make it so much easier for those of the lower astral to control us,
The lower astral is very real, very clever and very dangerous. They have been behind every barbaric action since time began.
They do set up all that creates fear and separation
The ego is not the enemy it is just very easy led by sound bites by slogans by propaganda.

The answer to my mind is not to fight the lower astral -- you would not win --- but to keep focused on eternal truth which is God.
Let go of fear ask for help from God to do this.
Dont get lead by propaganda into believing all that said about powers that be even though some of it is true.
Trust God in all you do.
Align yourself to His will to the best of your ability and you will be fine.
The rest will take care of itself.
Simple.
Chris
The illuminati etc are led by the lower astral who deny God and claim they are sovereign.

greybeard
13th June 2010, 08:30
Quote Originally Posted by frank samuel
The true teacher although he or she might be enlighten would only point the way, the rest is up to you. Those that bring attention upon themselves as the only source of truth makes you wonder where they are getting their information from. Truth holds no boundaries and is very very simple, seek for it within yourself, you are the temple of your soul and you express that truth through your heart though even in silence your actions are the expression of truth because you are in harmony with the source of all. From the teachers whom I have met and learn from their journey in the road to enlightenment has taken them an entire lifetime even several lifetimes, they understand that your are your own worst enemy and in order to reach enlightenment you must let your heart become the true subject over your mind and body. Your heart then becomes the source of peace, harmony, love,compassion and tranquility. Within the realm of the heart there's only compassion, love and forgiveness for those that seek to oppress, enslave and control you for they cannot control the heart and soul within each and every one of us. In that respect there's nothing to fear for no one can kill that which is infinite, your soul.

Many many blessings to all...

Thanks for this Frank so much love and wisdom expressed here.
Chris

kriya
13th June 2010, 10:35
The Powers That Be.
The moment I hear or read that I cringe for I know that propaganda is going to follow,
What or who exactly are the powers that be?
The Government? Well we voted them in.
The Government provide hospitals, schooling, help for he elderly, fire men, police much maligned but they have a difficult job.
Roads, water sewage disposal, so many things that we take for granted.
They are not the enemy, not saying that everything they do is right.
If there is an enemy its those who wish to destabilize the community part of which is Government.
Fear and unrest make it so much easier for those of the lower astral to control us,
The lower astral is very real, very clever and very dangerous. They have been behind every barbaric action since time began.
They do set up all that creates fear and separation
The ego is not the enemy it is just very easy led by sound bites by slogans by propaganda.

The answer to my mind is not to fight the lower astral -- you would not win --- but to keep focused on eternal truth which is God.
Let go of fear ask for help from God to do this.
Dont get lead by propaganda into believing all that said about powers that be even though some of it is true.
Trust God in all you do.
Align yourself to His will to the best of your ability and you will be fine.
The rest will take care of itself.
Simple.
Chris
The illuminati etc are led by the lower astral who deny God and claim they are sovereign.

The powers that be are not the Government, per se, but the power behind government, or sometimes called the secret government or cabal. Those heading the largest corporations,Banking, oil, Big pharma etc..(the ones with all the money!!).

Just in case you were wondering;)

Love,

Kriya

greybeard
13th June 2010, 12:19
Thanks Kriya
Yes I understand but this truth is expanded to include that which is life supporting everything in authority is seen by some as "The powers that be".
Teachers are physically attacked as figures of authority Dr's Nurses fire brigades ambulances, respect has gone for all that is decent.
They are seen as tools of the "Powers that be" so its politically correct to attack them on the smallest error.

There is very little live and let live in society now.

So a blanket labeling such as "powers that be" enables those that feed of the misery and pain to cause more pain and suffering by making an enemy of that which is actually life supporting.

"Beware of wolves in sheep's clothing"

All Im saying is look deeply at what our society has become and what is causing it.
If the powers that be are to be rightly blamed it is necessary to be very specific as to who or what is exactly to blame.
Its like saying all white people are to blame for x because a few do x.
All Aberdonians are mean miserable with money-- thats a classic in Scotland.

So every instance should be examined with out judgment then appropriate action can perhaps be taken.
What would Jesus do? Is a good question to ask one self.

Revelatism is dangerous because it can excuse virtually any action.
As I have said already sidelining Christian special days, Easter, Christmas in case other take offense.

The story below is perhaps a bit extreme but it paints part of the picture.


Must read: Killing an Americanized daughter
6 posts - 5 authors - Last post: 5 Apr
What is possibly even more startling than this horrible crime is the way the politically correct and those who promote cultural revelatism ...
www.sodahead.com/united-states/must-read-killing-an.../blog-293758/

Think I have said enough I would rather be bearer of uplifting news and there is plenty.
Chris

RedeZra
13th June 2010, 22:05
If the powers that be are to be rightly blamed it is necessary to be very specific as to who or what is exactly to blame.


we are not sure who they are so we call them TPTB

we think they wrote the software of this current system

which scrubs us off with crumbles of social securities


what's the worth of a vote when both candidates are in the pocket of TPTB

handpicked to pickpocket us


Im not into the blame game and the naming of names

Im just working on the virtues and helping where I can

they're gonna hear from Him soon

greybeard
13th June 2010, 22:21
Yes RedeZra.
I only voted once and that was 35 years ago.
Even then I knew it was promises promises, one party much the same as another.
Like you I am solution conscious. Blaming is blaming and it has a low energy, It is ineffective and actually feeds the problem.
To solve a challenge a higher energy than that which created it has to be used.
Using the same energy as the powers that be actually makes the situation worse, thats what they want. then they can justify using force, for the good of society of course.. We need to beware of being provoked in to senseless action, thats also ego.
The only answer is the raising of energy the raising of consciouses and its happening NOW.
C