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Celine
2nd December 2010, 02:23
.......more irreverent atheist ads set to hit Canadian cities

http://www.vancouversun.com/health/3913747.bin

The atheist group behind last year's controversial bus ads suggesting "there's probably no God" is rolling out a provocative new set of posters on buses across the country that places Allah beside Bigfoot and Christ beside psychics.

The new posters bear the slogan: "Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence" with "Allah, Bigfoot, UFOs, Homeopathy, Zeus, Psychics, Christ" listed below.

They will hit Toronto streetcars in January, pending final approval from the Toronto Transit Commission, said Justin Trottier, national executive director of the Centre for Inquiry, an atheist organization. After the Toronto debut, the organization plans to post the ads to buses in Calgary, Vancouver, Ottawa, Saskatoon and Montreal.


Read more: http://www.canada.com/health/Christ+meets+Bigfoot+more+irreverent+atheist+Canad ian+cities/3913741/story.html#ixzz16uvShia0

Carmody
2nd December 2010, 02:37
Obviously there is someone else behind them. This sort of thing takes money and no body spends such money for nothing. There is no way I see the agenda being just about a simple desire to stop religious wars or to 'prevent' delusion in the public.

Personally, I'd be investigating the connections of this man and his 'organization'.

witchy1
2nd December 2010, 02:47
probably part of the NWO to dis-establish all religons so they can replace it with their own.

Celine
2nd December 2010, 03:41
Oh yes there is definetly some kind of agenda behind it...but then again doenst everything?

i do like the line...

Extraordinary claims require extra ordinary evidence...

Humble Janitor
2nd December 2010, 07:32
Well think about it. Have we really proven the existence of anything such as aliens, god or allah?

I wouldn't jump as far as to call it part of the NWO agenda. As someone who does not believe in an established deity, questions must always be asked.

Pathfinder
2nd December 2010, 10:33
Hi Avalonians, new kid here. It will be interesting to see what kind of buzz this creates if it reaches Vancouver. I must admit its a rather snotty ad, and if there is any type of agenda associated with it, perhaps its simply to "stir the pot" so to speak. I cant really picture it making massive waves here in Vancouver though. Since the ad pretty much attacks anyone who isnt an athiest, it could not only get people upset at the athiest's, but then start bickering with eachother. Generally increasing intolerance, since it isnt promoting friendly discussion....still, its more interesting than the corporate spam stuck to every other bus.

astrid
2nd December 2010, 10:55
smells a bit like " the great Randi" to me, i guess the skeptics have to push their agenda to try and counteract the groundswell of people waking up, not surprising to see this, when u think about it, the old paradigm is crumbling ( big time) as we speak. Things are going to get really, really weird , we are seeing it already, as they get more and more desperate to hold on to whats left of the old structure.

in fact... might be a good title for a new thread....

Second Son
2nd December 2010, 17:13
HURRAY FOR THE IRREVERENT ATHIESTS!!!

I wish I had thought of it.

Religion, with all its pomp and circumstance, its bread and circus BS, has been in our faces, as well as behind the scenes pulling the strings and manipulating our perceptions of the possible for so long that we just accept all their bluster and ballyhoo. But somehow we are set on edge by this???

GOD BLESS THE ATHEISTS!!! ;)

Celine
2nd December 2010, 17:24
Quebec is like 90% catholic...

Mark Twain said, after he visited montreal...

""This is the first time I was ever in a city where you couldn't throw a brick without breaking a church window." "


And i hope it translates well... ppl make such an issue about language here

Dale
2nd December 2010, 17:52
It would certainly be interesting to follow some of this fellow's connections, if any be needed.

To me, this entire "pin the Agnostics against the Believers" game isn't so much about declaring a "winner," nor proving one party right. It's merely a mode of division and occupation. To keep groups (filled with highly intelligent, capable, people) heckling at one another; reflecting this behavior unconsciously to their audiences, as well. In this way, nothing of significance is accomplished on the behalf of any party, and those observing begin to find themselves heckling the fellow next door.

Richard
2nd December 2010, 18:22
This is from the organizations web site

We are an educational charity with a legal mandate to educate and provide training to the public in the application of skeptical, secular, rational, and humanistic enquiry through conferences, symposia, lectures, published works and the maintenance of a library, and to develop communities where like-minded individuals can meet and share their experiences.* We focus on three broad areas:* 1. Religion, Ethics and Society, 2. Pseudoscience, Paranormal and Fringe-science claims, 3. Medicine and Health

Hmm sounds vaguely familiar in it's theme doesnt it?

http://cficanada.ca/

Second Son
2nd December 2010, 18:26
forgive me if it is still laughable to me that this thing is the slightest bit off-putting to anyone. It shows that even those who think they are progressive and open minded or even, dare I say "highly intelligent, capable people" are still not aware of their own inner prejudices and lacunas. To set a minimum standard of proof for those concepts which indoctrinate, limit, kill, subjugate, dominate, oppress, threaten, and control our very sense of reality, to any "intelligent, capable" person should be a no-brainer.

Carmody
2nd December 2010, 19:43
This is why I mention it as likely having an origin and agenda. I'm not against the idea of proofing, or whatever the given case may be. However, the atheist viewpoint is tied to science in most cases. Within that particular origin of direction, lies the thing that blocks them from fulfilling their desire to answer those questions.

For modern science is blinkered in most cases by a broad 'cow like' base of poseurs in their ranks. Poseurs who do not understand the base tenants of science. What they do, is they identify engineering practices as being the components used for hypothesizing and curve fitting in order to reach testable models.

What I mean, is that in their minds, if something is not proven factual by science, they cannot use it in hypothetical modeling, so this means they are blocked by their desire and methodologies from reaching any real conclusions.

Real scientists understand that hypothetical modeling and reductive/deductive logic processes don't necessarily have 100% provable and 100% factual data in them. Real scientists (actual theoreticians) understand that you start with a question and try to find a workable scenario for proofing...whereas engineers are SPECIFICALLY NOT to EVER use any hypothetical aspects in their work or musings.

This can help for disproving things that have certain depth of 'unknowns' in their equations...but it holds nothing in the scenario for theoretical musing..the musing that real developmental science actually is.

It is not a co-incidence (to me) that the 'German School of thought' that surrounds modern educational systems (ie, engineering thinking, schooling and/or 'educational parameters' posing as scientific exploration) did indeed emerge not a few years from and not a few feet from Adam Weishaupt's Barvarian Illuminati.

This rote teaching methodology (no questions, just do, repeat!) effectively crushed critical thinking in the emerging aspects of high level schooling systems as colleges and universities emerged in a formal, regimented and widescale manner. What they seemingly did, is they removed the Heart and KEY component in the teaching of critical thinking, they removed philosophy. Philosophy is the place where the sciences themselves emerged from. Philosophy is the art of critical thinking.

Removing that from developmental and theoretical sciences means you've got a ship designed to move through growth..but it's rudder is nailed and glued shut into one position, regardless of what is in front of the ship..and regardless of where it is positioned or coming from.

What I'm trying to say, in a nutshell, is that critical thinking, in some respects, has lost it's path and way in the bulk of what represents the sciences - in these modern times.

When the current western schooling system emerged, we lost our linkage or continuity to and with upper reaches of philosophical thinking, and the two paths diverged. The alchemists, the topmost philosophers, etc, ...they were separated from the bulk of the rote aspects of scientific development and immutable engineering was put in place -in it's stead.

This resulted in the stratification of the system and the stagnation of scientific development in man. A disconnection in the critical aspects of knowledge enactment into concrete terms was 'waylaid' by a middle component being altered beyond recognition. Specifically with regard to creating a glorification of engineering feats over that of the edges of reality as transmitted from the heights by the philosophers in theoretical sciences.

It is easy to argue the contrary: that scientific methodology and engineering methodology and practices took a HUGE leap forward, with regard to the masses gaining feats of engineering in their daily lives. This is indeed true and indisputable.

The corollary to that... is the connection to the true heart of development in man was lost in the emergent 'German school of thought' (teaching methodology) system that 'took over' western science.

The core baby or core point of the whole path and journey of the peak expression of what is in man -and what man is striving for at the deepest levels- that is what was lost.

And science, as a name and a profession, diverged from it's true origins. Which was philosophical and reached the heights of human connection to the limits of reality and beyond.

Which gets me back to how 'science' (as named and coherent singularity or grouped expression/thought) emerged, and the place it emerged ... and the timing of that emergence. Who was involved, etc.

I feel we were delivered a 'sleight of hand' and the true capacities and directions of humankind was purposely, directly --and consciously --- diverted and quashed.

"Science" was separated from the philosophical heights and it's connection to 'the divine'... and in that moment lost it's reason to be, it lost the reason it was contemplated in the first place, as an extension and extrapolation into a 'greater height' for the mass of mankind.

Knowing how the PTB work and how their hands are placed, I think, that, to me..the evidence can show that this separation and 'blunting of potential' was guided and purposefully enacted.

The other point is that helps powerfully frame this argument of mine..is that the whole 'science thing' started with wiping the slate clean. That all prior art and 6000 years of prior understanding, was, for the most part--thrown away. We started with basics that we could agree on as being correct for everyone -and built from there.

To throw away the 6000+ years or prior art is to rip the heart out of the system for the sake of simplicity in a starting point...within 'proofing', engineering, etc..which is lunacy at best. It is not wisdom, it is it's opposite. They say it was done to regiment and create a system that brought MORE to the common man and more schooling, more development in man..but really.. the opposite in the most important ways, is what actually followed.

Second Son
2nd December 2010, 19:59
Very good to read your musings, which I agree with whole-heartedly. I do however think that those bus signs are actually advocating free thought and inquiry. You are very right that possibly there is a hidden hand behind it, and that the end goal is to get us all to blindly believe materialism as a placebo for the malady that is bind belief in religious dogma. With both scientific and spiritual/religious writings, those fragments are canonized by the PTB which help maintain the status quo, bolstering their power and control. Since so many religious docrines have been hi-jacked by the controling "elite" I imagine an athiestic organization could also be easily taken over, just as the Church of Scientology took over the Cult Awarness Network. All of this is a great argument for finding one's truth within, no?

Carmody
2nd December 2010, 20:08
The 'atheist' groups are even more blind than the religious ones.

Ironically...Their area of blindness ends up being a greater part of their makeup than they imagine.. and the dogmatic intensity they possess from which they defend their positions, is only a reflection of the religious caste that lies at the core of their mental position of and in their belief system, same as anyone else.

Celine
2nd December 2010, 20:13
It is interresting to watch the norm, be changed.

Atheist have had more affect on the status quo then any new age religion could claim


but i am still unsure if this is a positive or negative effect

Carmody
2nd December 2010, 20:37
As am I. However, knowing the history of such actions, it relates itself to me, as an unquestioning soldier with little depth to their position, being used as a weapon against emergent thinking, in order to control any thing that may emerge from that thinking.

Second Son
2nd December 2010, 20:37
I am not sure how to say this... but are you f-ing joking?

Show me one athiest group which has tortured, massacred, raped children, advocated hatred, helped spread the AIDs virus, and systematically dismantled beautiful indigenous cultures for centuries... ALL IN THE NAME OF A "LOVING" GOD

The blind followers of organized religions are tacit in all of this suffering by their SILENCE

GIVE ME A BREAK.
The 'atheist' groups are even more blind than the religious ones.

Ironically...Their area of blindness ends up being a greater part of their makeup than they imagine.. and the dogmatic intensity they possess from which they defend their positions, is only a reflection of the religious caste that lies at the core of their mental position of and in their belief system, same as anyone else.

Carmody
2nd December 2010, 20:58
I am not sure how to say this... but are you f-ing joking?

Show me one athiest group which has tortured, massacred, raped children, advocated hatred, helped spread the AIDs virus, and systematically dismantled beautiful indigenous cultures for centuries... ALL IN THE NAME OF A "LOVING" GOD

The blind followers of organized religions are tacit in all of this suffering by their SILENCE

GIVE ME A BREAK.

Actually no. It was a failure on my part to flesh the point out enough... so that someone could not come in and have an emotionally charged reaction to a self created extrapolation of the statement...A reaction that was not actually intended or meant for the reader to be lead -to. I read what I posted and the next communique in which I responded to Celine's posting ..that kinda covered the aspect of the seemingly leading or incomplete posting.

The reactive monkey shows up in all of us at times, as we read into something..things that are not intended and not there. This cuts all (or both) ways. As usual. However one may want to express it.

Basically, you are putting words into my mouth and reacting to them. I apologize for allowing that to happen. I left a hole... and you tripped in it.

Luke
2nd December 2010, 21:12
What to give break from?
Atheism is just another religion, that happens to worship matter.
It's list of atrocities committed is as long as any other religion, or closed philosophical system.

Hiram
3rd December 2010, 02:34
I am not sure how to say this... but are you f-ing joking?

Show me one athiest group which has tortured, massacred, raped children, advocated hatred, helped spread the AIDs virus, and systematically dismantled beautiful indigenous cultures for centuries... ALL IN THE NAME OF A "LOVING" GOD

The blind followers of organized religions are tacit in all of this suffering by their SILENCE

GIVE ME A BREAK.

I'm afraid you are terribly mistaken. Stalin and Mao both slaughtered and starved tens of millions of people in the name of atheistic thought, and they were not the first to do so. Atheists or Religions...neither has the moral high ground, neither position is superior I'm afraid, though it is very popular for young intellectuals to blame the ills of the world on religion.
I say find the demon within your own heart before you begin pointing it out in others. That is enough for any man or woman to deal with.

What really pisses me off is that they included Bigfoot on there.....

He doesn't belong with those hooligans....:)

Koyaanisqatsi
3rd December 2010, 02:48
I'm afraid you are terribly mistaken. Stalin and Mao both slaughtered and starved tens of millions of people in the name of atheistic thought, and they were not the first to do so. Atheists or Religions...neither has the moral high ground, neither position is superior I'm afraid, though it is very popular for young intellectuals to blame the ills of the world on religion.
I say find the demon within your own heart before you begin pointing it out in others. That is enough for any man or woman to deal with.

What really pisses me off is that they included Bigfoot on there.....

He doesn't belong with those hooligans....:)

Well played sir, well played. You have masterfully made a damn good point in my opinion, and you're right: bigfoot need not be thrown under the bus:)

Second Son
3rd December 2010, 04:05
No, actually I'm not mistaken. Stalin and Mao were toatalitarians first and foremost; demanding loyalty to themselves and the state. In Stalin's case he purged the church of many clergy and replaced them with those loyal to him, revitalizing the Russian Orthodox Church in the process. He even attend Jesuit run seminary schools for 7 years. There are rumors he graduated at the top of his class, was ordained as a Jesuit priest and used as a tool of the church to infiltrate the Russian government. Mao's writings show a definite type of deism, perhaps Taoist leanings. But this is conjecture... it is very hard to prove someone is an atheist. On the other hand, it is very easy to spot religious fanatics... they are the ones in the gaudy robes, with the blood on their hands and the alter boys on their d--ks. The thing about the atrocities performed by the church, witch burnings, inquisition, crusades, stoning of people, slaughter of innocents, the thing about all this is we know it was done by the religious.

THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE

There is one more... Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot DON'T HAVE APPOLOGISTS HERE ON THIS WEBSITE MAKING REALLY LAME EXCUSES FOR THEM

Second Son
3rd December 2010, 04:11
As far as I know, none of the above mentioned despots touted themselves as pure and righteous. "Just trust us with your under-age children, one tenth of your income, and your eternal soul."

There is a freaking HUGE Difference between being a tyranical ruler, and a sick pedophile disguised as something else.

Hiram
3rd December 2010, 22:28
"There is one more... Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot DON'T HAVE APPOLOGISTS HERE ON THIS WEBSITE MAKING REALLY LAME EXCUSES FOR THEM" ~Second Son

My friend, that is a gross and emotional mischaracterization of my position. I don't believe anyone has made apologies for for anyone's actions...here. Your approach to arguing you point is precisely the problem.



I appreciate your passion, which is very apparent in your writings, but you have latched on to an idea, an object, something which you believe to be the source of many ills and suffering. I am illustrating that the belief that religion itself is the problem, is a very shallow and surface level comprehension.
No amount of infusion of disgust and anger will enhance your position, in fact it only detracts from it and you very obviously are not regarding the subject objectively because of your strong feelings on the matter.
I think your feelings are admirable, but I would be lying if I didn't express that one cannot consider all aspects of a topic unless you detach from it.

Mankind himself is responsible for the ills and suffering which he bestows on his fellow creatures, there is no institution, religious, government, military or otherwise whose responsibility can be greater than that of the individual. Foremost, before all else the individual bares the responsibility for these things--the individual---and by proxy all of us. We are all responsible for failing our fellow man, be it in brotherhood, be it in kindness, be it in compassion--ALL OUR RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL.

As I said above, search out the demon in your own heart.

People have many gods, and worship in many churches....the business suits the bankers wear; are they not gaudy robes? What suffering have they caused? watch them as they enter their holy buildings with white columns! What about scientists in their white coats? Are these not gaudy robes? In the name of science what suffering have they caused worshiping in their laboratories, believing the highest power in the universe to be physics, chemistry and math? And what of the Military in their ridiculous costumes--and death by the millions? Judges and government officials?

And Atheists...more like anti-theists, they claim to hold a truth all others are too foolish to understand? I beg your pardon but they are as flawed and misguided as anyone else.

As I said, when you finally understand the demon in your own heart...then you can begin to see it in others. The difference is your less likely to chastise others once you recognize this in yourself.

Ross
3rd December 2010, 22:41
Thanks Hiram...excellent post.

truthseekerdan
3rd December 2010, 22:57
Great post Hiram, kudos. :)

Another post here regarding worshipping... http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?8689-Understanding-is-everything...-)&p=76050&viewfull=1#post76050

Namaste ~ Dan

elysian
3rd December 2010, 23:13
I think to label ones belief is to limit one self. Religion aswell as Atheism doesnt evolve or leave room for improvement.

Hiram
3rd December 2010, 23:57
Another post here regarding worshipping... http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?8689-Understanding-is-everything...-)&p=76050&viewfull=1#post76050



Great Post Dan! Its apparent from reading what you wrote that you quieted your mind an dedicated some real original thought to the subject. Bravo. I can see you sitting quietly thinking....and what a beautiful thing that is.

I actually have nothing against Atheism, and I don't wish to be misinterpreted. However, atheism will be treated evenhandedly and with the same "stick" in my presence as any other system of thought. I have nothing but love for Atheist, and Deist alike. Is there one path up the mountain? Am I blessed with the reason and wisdom to dictate to others what that true path is and is not?

"I am but an egg". ~Stranger in a Strange Land

Celine
4th December 2010, 00:01
a chicken is just an eggs way of making another egg...

one of us said that..i forget who... but i have been quoting him/her for a couple weeks now.

Second Son
4th December 2010, 00:02
I checked out that post Dan, and I must concur with your reasoning. That said, I still feel that anyone who would actually group scientists with clergy, or perhaps I shoud say science, with organized religion, is extremely misguided. They have been raised by religious parents, or are perhaps more indoctrinated into it than they would like to think. I can't help if I find the devout to be small minded conformists with almost zero capacity for critical thinking... really, I wish I could, but unfortunatly I am as stuck in this belief as all those who believe a Jew who was born to a virgin mother; walked on water, raised the dead, made a couple of loaves of bread feed multitudes, was killed and then resurected, and by doing so saved all our wretched souls, because we were all born in original sin... I REALLY can't help it, HONEST. I guess I would have to include not just the believers, but also those who are too hip to actually attend church (except maybe twice a year on Christmas and Easter) but by their turning a blind eye to the past and future attrocities caused by almost all organized religions, give the fundamentalists the tacit support they need to usurp our individual rights and sovereignty and keep us in a modern version of the Dark Ages with their backwardness, intolerance, prejudice, hate-mongering and separatism.

Anyone who would point out that atheist groups are as misguided as religious sects for demanding proof of a phantasm who has demanded repeated acts of genocide from his followers, is, well... pick an adjective. Having devoured the book "The End of Faith", the part that struck me the deepest was where he wrote the the time has come for REAL dialogue, not candy coated debate, but calling crazy what it is; CRAZY.

If you see little green men under the bed, keep it to yourself, or your end up in a sanitarium. If you have visions of Jesus Christ, and flail around speaking in tongue, you end up leading a congregation... go figure.

Hiram
4th December 2010, 00:18
When you as a man, begin experiencing things which neither science nor philosophy seem to explain, you will turn to other explanations. Many who practice religion (and I am not one of them despite the assertions above) do so as a form of mental and energetic discipline, not out of ignorance or misguidedness.

It is both unfair and inaccurate to tar them all with the same brush...a brush that has been formed by ones prejudices and judgments.

The "God" you describe above is only one of the many gods atheists don't believe in. As I indicated above...there are many many gods and many churches in which people worship completely unawares.

The argument you make above is a very old one. It is not a fresh perspective on things and isn't really progressive. It is a reactionary argument and is completely natural. I don't disparage you for making it, I am actually commending your warrior spirit.

When someone says to me they would like to have a dialogue "not candy coated debate" what they are really saying is they want permission to bully others and be rude and disrespectful of others beliefs with no repercussions.

I have a hard time understanding why you would like people to keep their practices of faith to themselves, when an Atheist group has just plastered their dogma all over the side of a bus...and soiled Bigfoot's name in the process?

Second Son
4th December 2010, 00:22
I have to laugh every time you bring up our hominid friend. Yes I would agree that the yetis are beyond reproach.

Celine
4th December 2010, 00:28
Well here is some "evidence" that bigFoot and jesus were buddies..

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:qUxzK0uWajb6xM:http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w310/william_parcher/13d591fc.jpg&t=1

Second Son
4th December 2010, 00:31
Now I'm really laughing... thanks for lightening the mood around here, Cee.

Hiram
4th December 2010, 00:36
Heh heh. I really do devour every book on bigfoot and yeti I can find:)

You see, on this we can agree my friend:)

Second Son
4th December 2010, 01:10
Perhaps this is subject for another thread, but what do you make of the hominids, Hiramid? Kidding, just kidding. No really, do you think they are an earlier version of us, a kind of human, version 4.2 ? I have heard serious researchers who claim they are the scrapped pre-humans, and that the legend of Lilith is about such a (genetically modified) being. Your take?

I suppose if this thread has Bigfoot in the title, it is a logical tangent.

Celine
4th December 2010, 01:37
or perhaps just another experiment gone wrong...?

a "hulk"...coincidently i am watching that movie right now on globaltv

Second Son
4th December 2010, 01:48
Interesting that it was atually a gamma ray burst that morphed Bruce Banner (did I get that right?) into the incredible hulk. The exact same phenomena that all the astrophysicists are talking about. I think there might be something to spontaneous evlolution caused by solar cycles, superwaves, or perhaps a combination of the two. Maybe we are giving the 'toids more power than they actaully possess?