PDA

View Full Version : Boiling To Life! Vents Opening Around Yellowstone



justntime2learn
13th April 2016, 16:47
I have heard so many times that Yellowstone was about to erupt.

Anyone care to comment on the new "scare".

gHMAU-7qAxg

"Published on Apr 11, 2016
More and more changes are being reported and this time the report comes from one of our subscribers at Bunker Report on Facebook. An article from The Billings Gazette tells the recent story of a Cody photographer who has lived in the area all of his life. He reports changes he has never seen before.
STAY AT THE READY..."

J_vomF_fTQw

Panic? Yellowstone Seismographs Taken Down—I Called To Ask Why and Here’s What The Seismologist Said

Cardillac
13th April 2016, 22:56
I've always felt the Yellowstone caldera could be the biggest natural event that could pose a threat to the existence of humanity at least in the northern hemisphere;

if my read sources are correct the Yellowstone caldera is much larger than originally assumed and if geologists have correct information Yellowstone blows ca. every 360.000 yrs; according to their sources the next eruption in over-due-

if my read sources are correct Yellowstone began awakening in the 1920's (the slow tipping of the lake from north to south began at that time)-

don't know if my sources are reliable but supposedly the geyser know as 'old faithfull' has become very erratic meaning something is afoot in this area;

Yellowstone has always been one of my pet peeves (a real/major threat); our planet has experienced many catastrophes in the past and for any of us to believe that a major catastrophe could never, ever affect us again is, in my humble opinion, not in touch with reality-

"saving the planet" is our planet's job (once our planet has had enough of us human parasites), not ours-

just my humble/cheap opinion-

please be well all-

Larry

Bill Ryan
13th April 2016, 23:09
The article referenced in the YouTube video in post #1 is this one:

http://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/hydrothermal-feature-roils-shoshone-river-in-cody/article_5030518a-c13f-5a8f-9843-36ca0634ecbb.html

Boiling to life: Hydrothermal feature roils Shoshone River in Cody

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/trib.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/7/1c/71ccdf42-7089-5420-a2b7-40514ec50d02/570ad1ee2d700.image.jpg

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/trib.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/c/e0/ce057942-7d3a-5425-918b-0c32d6949995/570ad1ee76b45.image.jpg

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/trib.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/c/a8/ca87e9d4-3b07-5fbd-b93d-9d70757bfaf8/570ad1eee4a9f.image.jpg

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/trib.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/f/28/f287d65f-42ca-5aa6-a2cb-0cf65a1430bd/570ad1eeb303a.image.jpg

Maybe it could be called Colter’s Heck.

A small hydrothermal feature spouted to life March 25 in the Shoshone River where it meanders through Cody — just east of Yellowstone National Park’s more famous geyser features — spewing a brew of heated gases into the water for about four days.

“I was surprised to see it,” said Dewey Vanderhoff, a Cody photographer, who captured shots of the venting. “I’ve lived here all of my life and I’ve never seen it.”

Hot past

The Cody region was once called Colter’s Hell in memory of early explorer and trapper John Colter. He visited the region in the early 1800s after finishing a cross-country trek with two guys named Lewis and Clark. Colter noted the Cody-area geysers, hot springs and sulfurous smelling river and he told others. Back then the Shoshone River was known as the Stinkingwater or Stinking river for its sulfurous smell.

Over the ages, most of those hydrothermal features have subsided, although geyser cones, hot springs, sinkholes, a sulfur-permeated spring and an abandoned sulfur mine and mill still stand testament to the area’s more active past.

“We’re kind of in a lull compared to when John Colter was in this area,” said Jason Burkhardt, a Cody-based fisheries biologist for the Wyoming Game and Fish Department. “There was substantially more geothermal activity that was occurring back then.”

Plume

Vanderhoff said he found out about the plume when a friend telephoned on Monday morning and joked that he had “proof positive” that the Yellowstone supervolcano was about to blow. His friend said a fissure had opened up in the river and “we’re all about to die,” Vanderhoff recounted.

So Vanderhoff grabbed his camera and went to snap some photos. The vent was just behind the Best of the West store, down inside the narrow canyon that the Shoshone River has carved through the Chugwater geologic formation’s red stone. He said there was an old rock feature about the size of a bathtub with water gurgling out from four or five holes — “like jets in a Jacuzzi.” He said the plume appeared to have a “substance” like Jell-O since it didn’t break up.

“It was pretty impressive,” he said. “The river right there is a really dark green. With a polarizing filter it really popped out.”

Vanderhoff posted images of the vent and the yellowish plume it sent downstream on his Facebook page. The posting received 2,000 views, which Vanderhoff called “unprecedented” for his page.

By Wednesday, though, the venting had stopped, prompting Vanderhoff to call it a “transient geologic phenomenon.” Then on Friday the venting started again, so Vanderhoff grabbed his video camera this time.

Old story

Burkhardt said such vents are nothing new along the Shoshone River below Buffalo Bill Dam, which is about 4 miles west of Cody.

“There are a number of springs that add hydrogen sulfide water to the river,” he said. “At certain times of the year it is lethal to fish.”

Hydrogen sulfide is a colorless gas that smells like rotten eggs.

In one stretch of the river through town, Burkhardt said surveys by his crew pick up no fish — a river dead zone — because of the high hydrogen sulfide content in the water. That concentration eventually dissipates about 1.5 miles downstream from DeMaris hot spring, he said.

So for most of the year, except during high water flows in the spring, fish just below the dam and fish downstream of the hot springs are largely separate populations because of what Burkhardt called a chemical barrier.

Despite the chemicals in the water, Burkhardt said there’s never been any evidence they accumulate in fish to the point that they are dangerous for humans or animals to consume.

The Department of Environmental Quality took water samples above and below the feature in 2012, but not of what the vent emits, and found a slight increase in the water’s pH from mildly basic to mildly acidic, according to Jason Martineau of the DEQ’s Sheridan office. That swing isn’t enough to affect the river’s plant and animal life, he said. And even if it did, “We’re not going to be able to fix the problem,” he added.

Warm place

Geologic studies have shown the Cody area sits atop a hot spot thanks to a large fold in the earth called the Horse Center anticline. One well (http://ngds.egi.utah.edu/files/GL00994/GL00994.pdf) drilled near DeMaris hot springs produced 208 gallons per minute of 93-degree water. Maximum temperatures of the underground water has been measured at 103 degrees.

The well and hot springs are close to the southeastern edge of the anticline. On the eastern edge is a 2-mile long deposit of travertine, rock created by mineral springs like those found at Mammoth in Yellowstone National Park, further evidence of the area’s more active geologic past.

The hydrothermal system is estimated to extend about 7 miles south of Cody.

Growing up in the northwestern Wyoming town, Vanderhoff said the town’s adjacent hot springs was tied into the “colorful history” of the area. Next to the springs once stood a nightclub, house of prostitution and a pool that he used to sneak into as a high school student. The venting hydrothermal feature is just “one little exclamation point” in that lively history, he said.

Since the venting in the Shoshone River stopped shortly after Vanderhoff posted the Facebook photos on a day so close to April Fool’s, he joked that he “may have to eat a lot of crow.”

“I hope it comes back,” he said. “Otherwise I’ll be made a fool.”

Carmody
14th April 2016, 01:03
Real activity will very likely be tied to astrological alignments. They always are, just like that of radio interference patterns, as discovered and documented by RCA.

So, when I hear about the 'supervolcano' going active, I check the astrological alignments, and invariably say 'meh'..as there is nothing happening... and do the equivalent of changing the TV channel to something relevant.

Hervé
14th April 2016, 01:14
^^^ What Carmody is referring to about RCA and planetary alignments is summarized in this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65043-Carrington-Event-Nov.-13&p=752470&viewfull=1#post752470) <---

Carmody
14th April 2016, 01:41
^^^ What Carmody is referring to about RCA and planetary alignments is summarized in this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65043-Carrington-Event-Nov.-13&p=752470&viewfull=1#post752470) <---

from the link:


The nice thing about Nelson's findings is that all of these factors are predictable and can be calculated far into the future. This suggests that it may be possible to predict solar storms via computer algorithms. In fact, I discovered one ham radio enthusiast who attempted to use part of Nelson's Theory in his own computer program to calculate a 'Nelson index' for each day. It's a crude attempt, and it doesn't take into account all of the factors the Nelson discovered, but it seems that he did have some preliminary success at accounting for past solar activity. Nelson believed his method brought about a 85% success rate in predicting future solar storms.


those are 'astronomical' geometric alignments, and then there are astrological geometric alignments, which is the same, but as measured from the earth.

Note the found 85% accuracy for predicting solar storms and their nature, which is the same figure found for predicting astrological aspects, which is the same figure for predicting the day of a given human birth from their considered conception date. All connected, fundamentally. All part of the 3d reality matrix as it erupts from the multidimensional 2d field system.

So, when someone screams "yellowstone is having big gaseous stomach troubles! run away, run away!"...and nothing is happening in astrological and astronomical alignments, their given screaming mess..means....nothing. Nothing at all.

When the astronomical alignments and the astrological alignments are both 'on line' and their energies are up, together, then you can begin to worry a bit. Which is thankfully, fairly rare. AND PREDICTABLE. EXCEEDINGLY PREDICTABLE.

This is why the elites do not want you to pay attention to astrology, as it is about the flow of humans, both the group and the individual, in the minutiae, through time. With entirely predictable pressures and types of pressures. And in all of human history, all of earthly existence, it has never been wrong, and never will be.

Which begs some serious questions about the nature of reality.

Which can be answered, once the hurdle of acceptance of these given factual aspects has been reached.

MorningSong
14th April 2016, 06:38
It's very interesting to me how certain threads pop up just as I have recently read something about the topic... may not be a coincidence and I think not...

Anyhoe... I just happened uon this a few days ago... what d' ya'll think?




NOTHING IS GOING ON IN YELLOWSTONE PARK AS OF 4/7/16 - SUPERSTATION 95 IS INCORRECT AND I WENT ON RECORD WITH THEM EARLIER TODAY,BEFORE THEIR BROADCAST

I LIVE WITHIN 50 AIR MILES FROM YNP AND INTIMATELY AWARE OF YELLOWSTONE AS I HAVE ON THE SPOT COMMUNICATIONS WITH PEOPLE IN THE KNOW AND HAVE BEEN THERE WHEN 1000 MICRO TREMORS HAPPENED AND COULDN’T EVEN FEEL THEM-WEATHER PERMITTING I WILL BE FLYING OVER IT TOMORROW PHOTOGRAPHING CERTAIN AREAS-CHECKING THE MAIN VENT IN THE LAKE FOR ANY ABNORMAL ICE MELT-FWIW YOUR WASTING YOUR TIME ON THIS --SQ-THIS WAS MY REPLY ON 11:08 AM THIS MORNING- HAL,YOUR FRIENDS INFO IS ONLY ANECDOTAL AND IS NOT BASED ON ANY EMPIRICAL DATA NOT TO MENTION HIS HEALTH ISSUES- SQ MY APOLOGIES AS I ORIGINALLY HAD TYPO SAYING 6 AS IN JUNE-I MEANT 4/7/16

Apr 6, 2016

http://www.stevequayle.com/index.php?s=33&d=1740


April 8, 2016
Did You Fall For This 'Tool Of Mass Distraction'? Yellowstone Park - My Perspective By Steve Quayle - 'The Most Serious Super Event Is Not Yellowstone But The Loss Of Our Country To The New World Order Takeover Devils And Their Traitorous Plans'

http://allnewspipeline.com/Yellowstone_Ready_To_Blow_Not_So_Fast.php

I even went over to the USGS YVO to take a peek and found an essence of "nothing to see here, folks, move along":


Five Things Most People Get Wrong About the Yellowstone Volcano (2015)

http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/volcanoes/yellowstone/faqs_misconceptions.html

I do understand that Quayle is not a geologist, volcanologist, or even a scientist, but then again, sometimes the truth comes from other sources... I am not one of those sources, since I can't go and see the YNP myself, and I probably wouldn't understand what I was seeing anyway. Anyone's guess outside the firezone is probably as good as mine. I do wish we could trust those who "see and tell", though. If only someone would tell it like it is (or near to it). In the meanwhile, I keep watching and wondering and trying to understand like the rest of us...

justntime2learn
14th April 2016, 13:54
Maybe our galactic friends are helping us out with Yellowstone ?

84LsnmwtvWg

"HEADZ UP: THE LIGHTS AROUND VOLCANOES ARE " NOT " UFOs/ORBs OR ALIENS, HEREs THE TRUTH"

"Published on Apr 10, 2016
4-9-16 M2U01802 YELLOWSTONE LIKELY TO ERUPT SOON!! ALSO A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF TRACER LIGHTS, DAYTIME
AND WHAT PEOPLE ARE CALLING ORBS/UFOS, IT ENERGY FOLKS"

9UIroEMUVYg

wnlight
14th April 2016, 20:10
My dowsing tells me that the Yellowstone hot-spot will not cause a major eruption/explosion in the next 400 years. By major, I mean an eruption the size of Mt Saint Helens or greater.

observer
15th April 2016, 11:59
My sister and her children all live close to the Yellowstone Caldera, as a result I've had my attention on this debate for many years.

Yellowstone remains a, "wait-and-see" issue, with me. I wasn't aware of the new vent boiling-up in Cody, WY. From my many years vigil on this Yellowstone issue, I can testify that the tectonic hotspot that caused Yellowstone Park has been gradually moving East (https://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/nature/volcano.htm), over many millions of years, and has erupted multiple times across a wide band of geography, leaving a trail of caldera as evidence to this tectonic displacement.

I've said for a long time, if Yellowstone were going to erupt, as that eruption has been predicted from the geologic record of frequency, it would have to happen at a location East of the current caldera.

By "record of frequency", I mean the obvious amount of time that has elapsed between each super-eruption of this hot-spot, as recorded in the geologic record, i.e. roughly every 600,000 to 800,000 years
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowstone_Caldera)
The Cody data perks my attention....

Old Snake
15th April 2016, 13:40
Earth quake lights are indeed an indicator that tention is being building up, years ago we discussed this with Friedeman Freund.
But as far as my knowledge goes, no sure conclusions can be taken from this phenomen.
I would choose "to be out of Dodge''

Old Snake

Mike Gorman
15th April 2016, 14:33
Real activity will very likely be tied to astrological alignments. They always are, just like that of radio interference patterns, as discovered and documented by RCA.

So, when I hear about the 'supervolcano' going active, I check the astrological alignments, and invariably say 'meh'..as there is nothing happening... and do the equivalent of changing the TV channel to something relevant.

Interesting you should say that - I agree with you about celestial influences, and a very sound alternative science group called 'Suspicious Observers' headed by a young man on Youtube (well worth checking out) has documented the relationship between solar activity with Seismic events on Earth (volcanoes, earthquakes...all related). In time we will see this relationship and accept it-I'm certain.

observer
17th April 2016, 16:25
My sister and her children all live close to the Yellowstone Caldera, as a result I've had my attention on this debate for many years.

Yellowstone remains a, "wait-and-see" issue, with me. I wasn't aware of the new vent boiling-up in Cody, WY. From my many years vigil on this Yellowstone issue, I can testify that the tectonic hotspot that caused Yellowstone Park has been gradually moving East (https://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/nature/volcano.htm), over many millions of years, and has erupted multiple times across a wide band of geography, leaving a trail of caldera as evidence to this tectonic displacement.

I've said for a long time, if Yellowstone were going to erupt, as that eruption has been predicted from the geologic record of frequency, it would have to happen at a location East of the current caldera.

By "record of frequency", I mean the obvious amount of time that has elapsed between each super-eruption of this hot-spot, as recorded in the geologic record, i.e. roughly every 600,000 to 800,000 years
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowstone_Caldera)
The Cody data perks my attention....

As an addendum to my earlier comment #10, I'd like to add a few links that I bookmarked back in the Fall of '15.

This anomaly is being blamed on underground springs by geologists, [and is being called a "landslide". If this is a landslide, then where is the downhill sump where the mass of earth slid into?]

One must keep in mind this entire area is on a tectonic plate boundary, which is being blamed for the Hotspot that caused the Yellowstone Caldera. Were that Hotspot moving in an Easterly direction, as evidenced by the combination of a few anomalies, could these be pointing to a near-future event?

This crack appeared, in geological terms, just a short distance from Yellowstone Park.

"Giant crack opens up in Wyoming" -
http://earthsky.org/earth/giant-crack-central-wyoming-october-2015

"Massive crack in earth mysteriously opens up in Bighorn Mountains,Wyoming" -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkfGmP-58gU

With so many recent dire warnings around the "Ring Of Fire", should we be paying more attention to Yellowstone?

Calz
18th April 2016, 11:53
Lack of astrological aspects aside ... check out the vid.

__________________


Yellowstone Eruption In 2016? Shocking New Video Shows What Is Really Going On At Yellowstone

By Michael Snyder, on April 17th, 2016


Over the past week, our planet has been hit by large earthquake after large earthquake, and according to Volcano Discovery there are 38 volcanoes around the world that are erupting right now. We have seen a dramatic spike in global seismic activity that is unlike anything that we have seen in ages, and that is why what is going on at Yellowstone is so incredibly alarming. Geologists tell us that a full-blown eruption of the Yellowstone supervolcano would have up to 2,000 times the power of the Mount St. Helens volcanic eruption of 1980, and approximately two-thirds of the country would immediately become uninhabitable. As you will see below, there are signs that something big is getting ready to happen at Yellowstone, and if it does erupt all of our lives will be permanently changed forever.

I want to share with you some footage from Yellowstone that was recorded on Thursday night. In this video, it appears to be as bright as day even though it is the middle of the night, you can see a whole host of geysers steaming violently, and Old Faithful just keeps going off over and over…



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DL5vG8uRYe8


This stunning footage was posted by a YouTube user known as Kat Martin 2016, and the following is what she had to say about the video that you just saw…



There are places s(t)eaming I have never seen steam before….and also note that the bright ground is back. There are no shadows, so it is not from above! As you know the cameras were froze up last night, so we could not see what was going ….or so we thought LOL…I found a way. Somehow (don’t ask me how), the Geyser Observation Study site was able to capture the ENTIRE night with NO freeze ups and cutting in and out….how is THAT? Anyway, I got it and slowed it down so you can see better. Old Faithful had weird seismos last night, and was going off constantly.

But it wasn’t just that one night. The weird activity at Yellowstone has continued, and you can watch even more recent footage that Kat Martin has posted right here and right here.

So what does this mean?

I don’t know, but watching that footage definitely got my attention.

And it is interesting to note that just a few weeks ago the Shoshone River changed color and started boiling without any warning whatsoever…


http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/yellowstone-eruption-in-2016-shocking-new-video-shows-what-is-really-going-on-at-yellowstone

Hervé
18th April 2016, 13:21
Re: the video above, when I was working in Northern Ontario during winter and was seeing smoke out of chimneys going straight up vertical, it's a signal to wrap up up your ears and nose: It's very cold out - in the minus 30 - 40 C range...

... so what does one expect of a geyser field (i.e. boiling water spewing up) of doing during a winter night under moonshine?

As for the "flash" seen at 04:05, to me, it looks like a ray of moonshine passing by for that particular frame of the time lapse video... and lighting up the steam cloud. Just as a ray of sunshine would do on a sunny/cloudy day.

Calz
18th April 2016, 13:33
Vid from last week. Not winter (although Colorado did get hit with a snow storm within the last few days).

The witness suggests steam in areas not seen before.

I've been to Yellowstone and never saw anything like that (albeit during the summer and not at night).

Who knows?

Hervé
18th April 2016, 13:43
As for the Yellowstone caldera itself, as I wrote here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18569-Yellowstone-Announced-to-be-Much-Bigger-Than-Originally-Thought&p=199732&viewfull=1#post199732) in my conclusion:



http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4193/3437/1600/mapa%2011.jpg


These are the current recognized hot spots/plumes world wide. What's known with certainty is the relative displacement between crust and plume. What's unknown is if the plumes are totally fixed as in the 19 degrees latitude thing or wandering as in the shift of the magnetic poles would indicate. To be resolved.


My opinion on the Yellowstone threat is that it would be less explosive (but still catastrophic) than at the time of the original formation of the caldera, simply because the channels are already in place which wasn't the case at the time of the first intrusion. Now, in the case of a new crustal shift with respect to mantle, that would be another story... because that would require another outlet to be punched through.

Hope this helps clarify the matter better?

Hervé
18th April 2016, 13:59
Vid from last week. Not winter (although Colorado did get hit with a snow storm within the last few days).
[...]

Night started with a clear sky indicative of high pressure, cold air atmosphere... and there's snow on the ground... right?

Related:
Winter Storm Warning for Colorado – In mid-April (http://iceagenow.info/winter-storm-warning-colorado-mid-april/)

April 14, 2016 (http://iceagenow.info/winter-storm-warning-colorado-mid-april/) Robert (http://iceagenow.info/author/xilef/) 14 Comments (http://iceagenow.info/winter-storm-warning-colorado-mid-april/#comments)
Snowfall accumulations of 2 to 4 feet (60 to 120 cm) can be expected through early Sunday. Continue reading Winter Storm Warning for Colorado – In mid-April → (http://iceagenow.info/winter-storm-warning-colorado-mid-april/#more-18091)

observer
19th April 2016, 02:49
The "suggested video" 'bot on my YouTube account is tuned to my interest in Yellowstone. I see most new videos on activity in the area the day they are posted.

I also saw the video that Calz posted in comment #14 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90025-Boiling-To-Life--Vents-Opening-Around-Yellowstone&p=1061697&viewfull=1#post1061697)the day it appeared on YouTube. I didn't use it because I feel strongly that the Hot Spot which caused Yellowstone is moving Eastward.

If there were any volcanic activity at the old hot-spot location (600,000+ years, now and counting), it would have to be concentrated on the Eastern side of the old Caldera, or completely outside of that zone entirely.




[....snip]

My opinion on the Yellowstone threat is that it would be less explosive (but still catastrophic) than at the time of the original formation of the caldera, simply because the channels are already in place which wasn't the case at the time of the first intrusion. Now, in the case of a new crustal shift with respect to mantle, that would be another story... because that would require another outlet to be punched through.
- emphasis by observer

Hope this helps clarify the matter better?


This is why anomalous geological activity to the east of Yellowstone Park is worth looking at....

See:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90025-Boiling-To-Life--Vents-Opening-Around-Yellowstone&p=1060638&viewfull=1#post1060638

And:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90025-Boiling-To-Life--Vents-Opening-Around-Yellowstone&p=1061482&viewfull=1#post1061482

Hervé
19th April 2016, 12:39
Again, from here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18569-Yellowstone-Announced-to-be-Much-Bigger-Than-Originally-Thought&p=199732&viewfull=1#post199732) <---:


[...]
For Yellowstone, here is the most recent seismic model (2009):


http://media.education.nationalgeographic.com/assets/photos/000/116/11653_r646x20000.jpg?e74f43976b28264a42c02da45a489 f692e95064d
Caption: Seismic imaging was used by University of Utah scientists to construct this 3-D picture of the Yellowstone hotspot plume of hot and molten rock that feeds the shallower magma chamber (not shown) beneath Yellowstone National Park, outlined in green at the surface, or top of the illustration. The Yellowstone caldera, or giant volcanic crater, is outlined in red. State boundaries are shown in black. The park, caldera and state boundaries also are projected to the bottom of the picture to better illustrate the plume's tilt. Researchers believe "blobs" of hot rock float off the top of the plume, then rise to recharge the magma chamber located 3.7 miles to 10 miles beneath the surface at Yellowstone. The illustration also shows a region of warm rock extending southwest from near the top of the plume. It represents the eastern Snake River Plain, where the Yellowstone hotspot triggered numerous cataclysmic caldera eruptions before the plume started feeding Yellowstone 2.05 million years ago.

http://www.wildlifeextra.com/resources/listimg/news/2009_jan/yellowstone_plume@large.jpg

Caption: This is a cross section of the plume of hot and molten rock that tops out about 50 miles beneath Yellowstone National Park, and tilts downward to the northwest to a depth of at least 410 miles. The plume is mostly hot rock with about 1 to 2 percent molten rock. Researches believe "blobs" of hot rock slowly detach from the top of the plume and rise upward to recharge the magma chamber that lies from 3.7 to 10 miles beneath Yellowstone. The chamber is also mostly hot rock, but with a sponge-like structure containing about 8 to 15 percent molten rock.

[...]

... which shows that the "plume" hasn't migrated... and is still under that same Yellowstone Caldera.


https://haysvillelibrary.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/yellowstone-plume-university-of-utah-2.jpg

http://d29qn7q9z0j1p6.cloudfront.net/content/roypta/364/1845/2055/F2.large.jpg

https://www.sciencenews.org/sites/default/files/main/articles/ts_yellowstone.png



The above are the various, current models derived from the recorded seismic data. They show that there is no new eastward migration of either plume or magma chambers.

observer
19th April 2016, 13:39
To view Herve's comment #20, click on forwarding icon
From the links you offered in your comment, Amzer, I have discovered there is another reference to the size of the Known Magma Chamber under Yellowstone.

Taken from a link you offered in an exchange with Snowbird, in the thread, "Yellowstone Announced to be Much Bigger Than Originally Thought" (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18569-Yellowstone-Announced-to-be-Much-Bigger-Than-Originally-Thought&p=199139&viewfull=1#post199139), I discovered data from an array of sensors funded by the National Science Foundation referred to in the article as the "MT survey".

From the article:
"Past imaging efforts have used seismic waves to detect the border between molten and solid rock. These have indicated that the mantle plume originates somewhere deep under Idaho and slopes eastward as it rises to meet the surface under Wyoming.

The new picture roughly agrees with this, but suggests the area heated by the plume may be far more extensive than indicated by the seismic data. It relies on what is termed magneto-telluric (MT) readings, which register subtle changes in the Earth's conductivity and magnetic fields. These register differences in temperature and composition of the rock and fluids, as these change alter the conductivity of the crust."

From the image, one can find in that article, I isolated the MT data portion, from which one can clearly see a large area of magma extending far beyond the Eastern borders of the Yellowstone Park.

http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/b509/POV_At_Exit_0/MT%20data%20Yellowstone_zpslvpnipgt.gif (http://s1289.photobucket.com/user/POV_At_Exit_0/media/MT%20data%20Yellowstone_zpslvpnipgt.gif.html)

This data goes further to support the concerns I've expressed in earlier comments....

Hervé
19th April 2016, 14:14
From that same post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18569-Yellowstone-Announced-to-be-Much-Bigger-Than-Originally-Thought&p=199139&viewfull=1#post199139) referred to above:


[...]
PS: Original article on Yellowstone: http://arstechnica.com/science/news/...m_campaign=rss (http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2011/04/yellowstone-volcanic-plume-much-larger-than-expected.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss)

Which dutchsinse didn't seem to have read or understood as it states:


The resulting picture suggests that the molten rock of the mantle plume seen in seismic images is only the core of a much larger volume of hot crust. Although this area isn't molten, the high temperatures allow water to pick up elevated levels of salt, which enables its detection through the MT monitoring equipment. The plume itself seems to slope down a bit more gently, and extend much further under Idaho than the seismic data had suggested. The MT data also confirms suggestions that the rock within the plume doesn't become molten until it reaches a depth of about 250km.

observer
19th April 2016, 15:16
^^^^
It appears to me as though you are arguing a moot point, Amzer.

All the data combined, the seismic data that you are referring to, and the MT data (which shows a much larger area of magma than previously understood), by combining this knowledge, one comes to the conclusion that there is an existing potential for an easterly plum migration.

Even from the seismic data you are referencing, in the last image from your comment #20 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90025-Boiling-To-Life--Vents-Opening-Around-Yellowstone&p=1062019&viewfull=1#post1062019), the seismic sourced data clearly indicates the location of the [Known Magma Chamber] to extend beyond the eastern border of Yellowstone Park.




[....snip]

https://www.sciencenews.org/sites/default/files/main/articles/ts_yellowstone.png

Hervé
19th April 2016, 15:25
I give up against "confirmation bias (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias)" since it seems too much of the terminology is misunderstood.

observer
19th April 2016, 15:52
^^^^
Ad hominem, Amzer? Is that the best you can do?

[Exactly the same argument can be used against your position.]

Hervé
19th April 2016, 16:11
What is displayed on that diagram (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90025-Boiling-To-Life--Vents-Opening-Around-Yellowstone&p=1062063&viewfull=1#post1062063) is a "plume" expanding SW with its accompanying heat column... it's not going east.

Hence, that's not a "moot" point.

observer
19th April 2016, 16:33
^^^^

Oh! Really!!!

What I see in that diagram is a clearly existing "Known Magma Chamber" extending beyond the border of the Yellowstone Caldera in an easterly direction (upper right portion of the diagram), accompanied by an area under that Known Magma Chamber titled, "Newly Discovered Magma Reservoir".

By the color variations in the diagram one can clearly see the Newly Discovered Magma Reservoir is adding heat to the Known Magma Chamber.

Any southwesterly indication on the diagram is irrelevant, as the diagram clearly shows the sub-Mantle Plume adding heat to the Newly Discovered Magma Reaervoir, through the Upper Most Mantle, which in turn, is adding heat to the Known Magma Chamber.

Granted, the area in the Known Magma Chamber is indicated as the hottest directly under the Yellowstone Caldera, but (and this is a BIG observation), the area of the Known Magma Chamber is closest to the surface to the eastern part of the existing caldera - and extends completely out of the park.

Given the understanding that any future eruption would take the path of least resistance, it stands to reason the data shows the greatest threat-potential lies to the East of Yellowstone.

Paul
19th April 2016, 16:38
Even from the seismic data you are referencing, in the last image from your comment #20 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90025-Boiling-To-Life--Vents-Opening-Around-Yellowstone&p=1062019&viewfull=1#post1062019), the seismic sourced data clearly indicates the location of the plum to extend beyond the eastern border of Yellowstone Park.
I'm confused - the images I see posted in, and linked from, comment #20 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90025-Boiling-To-Life--Vents-Opening-Around-Yellowstone&p=1062019&viewfull=1#post1062019), all seem to show the large, deep, plume, extending to the NW of the Yellowstone caldera, as one goes deeper below the surface, not to the SE. What image or data "clearly indicates the location of the plum to extend beyond the eastern border of Yellowstone Park." ?

¤=[Post Update]=¤


What I see in that diagram is a clearly existing "Known Magma Chamber" extending beyond the border of the Yellowstone Caldera in an easterly direction (upper right portion of the diagram), accompanied by an area under that Known Magma Chamber titled, "Newly Discovered Magma Reservoir".
Ah - yes - the "Known Magma Chamber", near the surface, does extend the other way, SE of the Yellowstone Caldera.

While the deeper, larger, plume, extends the other way, NW of the Yellowstone Caldera.

So my preliminary conclusion is that this dispute arises from everyone not using the terms "plume" and "magma chamber" in the same, consistent way as everyone else.

observer
19th April 2016, 16:43
Paul,

Magma follows in the path of least resistance. Try to follow what I said in comment #27 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90025-Boiling-To-Life--Vents-Opening-Around-Yellowstone&p=1062097&viewfull=1#post1062097). My argument is all quite logical, it simply goes beyond the current geologically accepted Model.

Add Text: [It would be interesting to know when the diagram Amzer posted was actually made, and if there is any recent update to the tempeture of the Known Magma Chamber. ]

Paul
19th April 2016, 16:46
Paul,

Magma follows in the path of least resistance. Try to follow what I said in comment #27 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90025-Boiling-To-Life--Vents-Opening-Around-Yellowstone&p=1062097&viewfull=1#post1062097). My argument is all quite logical, it simply goes beyond the current geologically accepted Model.

I believe I understand and find reasonable your argument.

Where I think things went astray was in referring to the SE extension as a plume, not a magma chamber :).

observer
19th April 2016, 17:01
^^^^
Thank you Paul for your input. I have gone back and corrected my error to [alleviate] any further confusion....

Paul
19th April 2016, 17:02
^^^^
Thank you Paul for your input. I have gone back and corrected my error to elevate any further confusion....

Good :).

Calz
19th April 2016, 17:06
^^^^
Thank you Paul for your input. I have gone back and corrected my error to elevate any further confusion....

From a captivated fan in the cheap seats ... I love the humor ... but would that be "eleviate" ... or else I am indeed *damn* confused :)

Sierra
19th April 2016, 17:23
Alleviate actually... :bigsmile:

observer
19th April 2016, 17:33
Thank you Calz, but we were both wrong. My spell check changed the word to elevate, as I was typing fast and typed the same word as you, but I was actually after "alleviate". As Sierra has indicated. It's corrected!

Now.... could we all return to comment #21 and resume the debate with all the terminology corrections, so that this issue can be resolved, or at least acknowledged as a possibility....



To view Herve's comment #20, click on forwarding icon
From the links you offered in your comment, Amzer, I have discovered there is another reference to the size of the Known Magma Chamber under Yellowstone.

Taken from a link you offered in an exchange with Snowbird, in the thread, "Yellowstone Announced to be Much Bigger Than Originally Thought" (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18569-Yellowstone-Announced-to-be-Much-Bigger-Than-Originally-Thought&p=199139&viewfull=1#post199139), I discovered data from an array of sensors funded by the National Science Foundation referred to in the article as the "MT survey".

From the article:
"Past imaging efforts have used seismic waves to detect the border between molten and solid rock. These have indicated that the mantle plume originates somewhere deep under Idaho and slopes eastward as it rises to meet the surface under Wyoming.

The new picture roughly agrees with this, but suggests the area heated by the plume may be far more extensive than indicated by the seismic data. It relies on what is termed magneto-telluric (MT) readings, which register subtle changes in the Earth's conductivity and magnetic fields. These register differences in temperature and composition of the rock and fluids, as these change alter the conductivity of the crust."

From the image, one can find in that article, I isolated the MT data portion, from which one can clearly see a large area of magma extending far beyond the Eastern borders of the Yellowstone Park.

http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/b509/POV_At_Exit_0/MT%20data%20Yellowstone_zpslvpnipgt.gif (http://s1289.photobucket.com/user/POV_At_Exit_0/media/MT%20data%20Yellowstone_zpslvpnipgt.gif.html)

This data goes further to support the concerns I've expressed in earlier comments....

Hervé
19th April 2016, 17:41
My point (post # 20 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90025-Boiling-To-Life--Vents-Opening-Around-Yellowstone&p=1062019&viewfull=1#post1062019)) was:



[...]

https://www.sciencenews.org/sites/default/files/main/articles/ts_yellowstone.png



The above are the various, current models derived from the recorded seismic data. They show that there is no new eastward migration of either plume or magma chambers.

[/CENTER]

That same post also mentions this:



Caption: This is a cross section of the plume of hot and molten rock that tops out about 50 miles beneath Yellowstone National Park, and tilts downward to the northwest to a depth of at least 410 miles. The plume is mostly hot rock with about 1 to 2 percent molten rock. Researches believe "blobs" of hot rock slowly detach from the top of the plume and rise upward to recharge the magma chamber that lies from 3.7 to 10 miles beneath Yellowstone. The chamber is also mostly hot rock, but with a sponge-like structure containing about 8 to 15 percent molten rock.
In other words, it's far from a lava lake that's under there.



Update:

observer (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90025-Boiling-To-Life--Vents-Opening-Around-Yellowstone&p=1062125&viewfull=1#post1062125): From the image, one can find in that article, I isolated the MT data portion, from which one can clearly see a large area of magma extending far beyond the Eastern borders of the Yellowstone Park. Not actual magma, only hydrothermally heated rocks (see post # 22 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90025-Boiling-To-Life--Vents-Opening-Around-Yellowstone&p=1062040&viewfull=1#post1062040))

observer
19th April 2016, 22:02
Oh! I see how this works now!!!

You take the words from an article (from which I produced a diagram) that shows a much larger area of superheated rock, which extends far to the East, beyond the boundary of the Yellowstone Caldara, and you then apply those words to some undescribed "chamber".

You then Ignore the fact that in the diagram you produced, using the words, "Newly Discovered Magma Chamber" and "Known Magma Chamber", and suggest the substance in some unspecified "chamber" is nothing more than "hydrothermally heated rocks, but with a sponge-like structure containing about 8 to 15 percent molten rock"
.
I guess this is an example of how someone can have it both ways!!!

I see now why a fictional character in a popular sitcom regularly makes the claim, "geology isn't a real science".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSvDawJSPg8

add text:With this comment, I will exit this debate. I can see there is no way to convince those firmly stuck in the conventional model of any alternate possibilities. This is becoming a waste of my time.

MorningSong
20th April 2016, 08:54
Observer, I appreciate your input to the discussion. Please don't abandon it. Gives me something to mentally chew on.

We'll work through it and maybe figure this stuff out. That's why we're here, after all.

I have been following patiently the work of Mitch Batross, ex-owner of the site Earth Changes Media and now writing at Science of Cycles, who has been trying to figure things out for a long time.

His understanding of what's going on is this:

http://i2.wp.com/scienceofcycles.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/new_equation-2012_m.png?w=600

New Equation:
Increase Charged Particles Decreased Magnetic Field → Increase Outer Core Convection → Increase of Mantle Plumes → Increase in Earthquake and Volcanoes → Cools Mantle and Outer Core → Return of Outer Core Convection (Mitch Battros - July 2012)

observer
20th April 2016, 12:24
^^^^
Thank you for the invitation to return, MorningSong.

Amzer Zo's condescending tone at my earlier improper use of terminology, when he well knew what I was trying to say, frustrated me enough to want to leave this debate.

I'm a firm believer in the Electric Model of the Universe as proposed by Wallace Thornhill and David Talbott, and have spent a good amount of time during my sojurn at Avalon referencing their work at the Thunderbolt Project (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHqXK_Hz79tjqRosK4tWYA). There can be no doubt, the Electric Model is driving the tectonic forces on the planet, with a direct relationship to the sun's activity.

Here's something for you to "chew" on:

Established fact - The North American Plate is moving westward. It has been for millions of years. At the same time the Juan de Fuca Plate is moving eastward causing a subduction zone at the boundary. All tectonic activity occurs in the upper crust, or lithosphere, above the mantle of magma (beneath).

Now, look carefully at the diagram that has caused so much controversy:
https://www.sciencenews.org/sites/default/files/main/articles/ts_yellowstone.png

Notice that below the "Uppermost Mantle" there's a "Mantle Plume" with directional arrows indicating a westward movement. Above that Mantle Plume there is a "Newly Discovered Magma Chamber" with a "Known Magma Chamber" above that.

Take particular note, the "Known Magma Chamber" is located in the "Upper Crust" (the lithosphere) which is not defined in the diagram. That "Known Magma Chamber" has remained stationary over the hotspot (defined in the diagram as the "Mantle Plume"), for millions of years, i.e.,, the "Mantle Plume" is not moving, the tectonic plate above it is.

Now consider this: the "Mantle Plume" is the result of the subduction occurring at the plate boundary, which is not shown in the diagram, but if you look at the surface features in the diagram, you can clearly see that a large portion of the "Mantle Plume" exists under water, i.e. the Pacific Ocean.

Conclusions from what we know (from the diagram):
1. The directional arrows indicated in the "Mantle Plume" are irrelevant.
2. The "Newly Discovered Magma Chamber" and the "Known Magma Chamber" are receiving heat from the "Mantle Plume", and for millions of years this process has continued in exactly the structure as indicated in the diagram, the only variable being the westward movement of the North American Plate above the structure.
3. All of this structure is happening far below any tectonic activity. In fact, it is the subduction at the plate boundary that is causing the "Mantle Plume" (hotspot) in the first place.
4. Even though the color coding in the diagram indicates the hottest temperature of magma in the "Known Magma Chamber" is hottest under the Yellowstone Caldaria, that "Known Magma Chamber" extends beyond the border of the Yellowstone Park, and is closer to the surface in that extended area - Magma Follows The Path Of Least Resistance.

It's my speculation, all we need is a massive earthquake at the subduction zone along the Pacific Coast, and that will cause an hydraulic surge in the "Mantle Plume" that will superheat the "Known Magma Chamber".

Amzer Zo's explanation to Snowbird, here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18569-Yellowstone-Announced-to-be-Much-Bigger-Than-Originally-Thought&p=199139&viewfull=1#post199139), doesn't take into consideration, that all of this "Mantle Plume" (hotspot) activity is occurring far below the lithosphere, down in the Mantle.

Dating-back to July, 2015 there have been public warnings of a massive earthquake pending along the Washington/Oregon/Northern California Coast:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jB6G08Qgmg

I invite the members to put it all together, and "chew" on that....

Hervé
20th April 2016, 16:21
[...]
Amzer Zo's condescending tone at my earlier improper use of terminology, when he well knew what I was trying to say, frustrated me enough to want to leave this debate.
[...]
Projecting much? Because, it's a lot more than confusing the terminology used, it demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of what's written as well as the data provided, e.g.:

[...]
Established fact - The North American Plate is moving westward. It has been for millions of years. At the same time the Juan de Fuca Plate is moving eastward causing a subduction zone at the boundary. That's not established at all and is the subject of endless debates:

[...]These are the current recognized hot spots/plumes world wide. What's known with certainty is the relative displacement between crust and plume. What's unknown is if the plumes are totally fixed as in the 19 degrees latitude thing or wandering as in the shift of the magnetic poles would indicate. To be resolved.[...]
The North American continent is moving "westward" only with respect to Europe and Africa when the latter are taken as the reference frame.

As at yet no one knows for certain if the North American continent is moving westward in an absolute manner: it could be pinned down to the mantle, in which case it would be Africa and Europe as well as Japan that are moving eastward and getting closer to the west coast of the North American continent when the latter is taken as the reference frame.

In any case, it is the Pacific Ocean that is shrinking and the Atlantic Ocean that's expanding.

Quasar calibrated GPS may answer that question as to which continent to pick as an "immobile" reference frame, if any, soon.



All tectonic activity occurs in the upper crust, or lithosphere, above the mantle of magma (beneath).

Now, look carefully at the diagram that has caused so much controversy:
https://www.sciencenews.org/sites/default/files/main/articles/ts_yellowstone.png

There was no "controversy" nor confusion on my part with this diagram. My point of contention was with the interpretation given to this diagram:

http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/b509/POV_At_Exit_0/MT%20data%20Yellowstone_zpslvpnipgt.gif

... which demonstrated the complete misunderstanding of the article it came from as well as the confirmation bias point.


[...]
... That "Known Magma Chamber" has remained stationary over the hotspot (defined in the diagram as the "Mantle Plume"), for millions of years, i.e.,, the "Mantle Plume" is not moving, the tectonic plate above it is.
[...]
... so... is it stationary? Or is it moving?


Now consider this: the "Mantle Plume" is the result of the subduction occurring at the plate boundary, which is not shown in the diagram,That's the thing with "Mantle Plumes": they are independent from subduction zones:


http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4193/3437/1600/mapa%2011.jpg

http://www.visionlearning.com/img/library/modules/mid128/Image/VLObject-3287-050307080339.gif

The volcanic activity connected to the subduction zone generated the Cascade Range NOT Yellowstone




but if you look at the surface features in the diagram, you can clearly see that a large portion of the "Mantle Plume" exists under water, i.e. the Pacific Ocean.... this should be embarrassing... because, if we take the horizontal scale of one "Yellowstone-Caldera-diameter" from that diagram and translate it along that NE-SW cross section... and we find that the Pacific has moved into Idaho:


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=6955&d=1303096764


[...]
I invite the members to put it all together, and "chew" on that....Yes, please, chew it real good :)

observer
20th April 2016, 17:42
to see Herve's comment #40, click-on the forwarding icon.

Are you seriously making the claim that the North American Plate is stationary in the western region? Seriously?

Full-well being aware of the Snake River Plain?


"Current studies suggest that the Snake River Plain resulted from the passage of the North American Plate over a stationary mantle plume or “hotspot” that is currently located beneath Yellowstone National Park" - from here (http://geology.isu.edu/Digital_Geology_Idaho/Module11/mod11.htm)

Talk about a complete misunderstanding, the MT Data image was posted specifically to show there are other sources of evidence indicating a much wider field of magma, extending far into the heartland of Wyoming, than was previously understood. You, sir, picked the word "magma" apart, in an attempt to demonstrate your superior knowledge, when it was perfectly obvious of what I was speaking.

....And your continued use of this image is laughable:

http://www.visionlearning.com/img/library/modules/mid128/Image/VLObject-3287-050307080339.gif

The diagram is describing only what is occurring in the crust (lithosphere). It doesn't address any conditions deep in the Mantle, the way this diagram does:

https://www.sciencenews.org/sites/default/files/main/articles/ts_yellowstone.png

....and the water indicated in the surface conditions of this diagram are describing the Pacific Ocean, unless you can show me a large body of water between Yellowstone and the Pacific ocean. The scale on that diagram is completely distorted.

It should be obvious, the Juan de Fuca/North American Subduction Zone is responsible for the hotspot that caused Yellowstone, and it should be obvious that hotspot has remained stationary while the North American plate has continuously moved westward over that stationary spot - just like are the conditions at all the other hotspots found around the world....

KiwiElf
20th April 2016, 17:55
Right now, I'd say the whole pacific plate is moving! Whatever was before, isn't now...

Hervé
20th April 2016, 19:01
to see Herve's comment #40, click-on the forwarding icon.
Are you seriously making the claim that the North American Plate is stationary in the western region? Seriously?

Full-well being aware of the Snake River Plain?


"Current studies suggest that the Snake River Plain resulted from the passage of the North American Plate over a stationary mantle plume or “hotspot” that is currently located beneath Yellowstone National Park" - from here (http://geology.isu.edu/Digital_Geology_Idaho/Module11/mod11.htm)
That's an evidence of ONLY a RELATIVE motion between the two. Anything else is assumption/interpretation. It is in no way an evidence that a hot spot is not moving as well. Hence the endless debates:

That's not established at all and is the subject of endless debates:

Posted by Hervé (here) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?p=199732#post199732)
[...]These are the current recognized hot spots/plumes world wide. What's known with certainty is the relative displacement between crust and plume. What's unknown is if the plumes are totally fixed as in the 19 degrees latitude thing or wandering as in the shift of the magnetic poles would indicate. To be resolved.[...] The North American continent is moving "westward" only with respect to Europe and Africa when the latter are taken as the reference frame.

As at yet no one knows for certain if the North American continent is moving westward in an absolute manner: it could be pinned down to the mantle, in which case it would be Africa and Europe as well as Japan that are moving eastward and getting closer to the west coast of the North American continent when the latter is taken as the reference frame.

In any case, it is the Pacific Ocean that is shrinking and the Atlantic Ocean that's expanding.

Quasar calibrated GPS may answer that question as to which continent to pick as an "immobile" reference frame, if any, soon.
----------------------------------------------------



Talk about a complete misunderstanding, the MT Data image was posted specifically to show there are other sources of evidence indicating a much wider field of magma, extending far into the heartland of Wyoming, than was previously understood. Re-read that article and realize it's talking about "hot rocks," NOT magma:
Past imaging efforts have used seismic waves to detect the border between molten and solid rock. These have indicated that the mantle plume originates somewhere deep under Idaho and slopes eastward as it rises to meet the surface under Wyoming.
The new picture roughly agrees with this, but suggests the area heated by the plume may be far more extensive than indicated by the seismic data. It relies on what is termed magneto-telluric (MT) readings, which register subtle changes in the Earth's conductivity and magnetic fields. These register differences in temperature and composition of the rock and fluids, as these change alter the conductivity of the crust.
[...]
The resulting picture suggests that the molten rock of the mantle plume seen in seismic images is only the core of a much larger volume of hot crust. Although this area isn't molten, the high temperatures allow water to pick up elevated levels of salt, which enables its detection through the MT monitoring equipment.
http://arstechnica.com/science/2011/04/yellowstone-volcanic-plume-much-larger-than-expected/
---------------------------------------------



You, sir, picked the word "magma" apart, in an attempt to demonstrate your superior knowledge, when it was perfectly obvious of what I was speaking. That was to make other readers understand that it's not a lava lake that's sitting in that "known magma chamber": hot rocks melted at 8-15%


--------------------------------------------



....And your continued use of this image is laughable:

http://www.visionlearning.com/img/library/modules/mid128/Image/VLObject-3287-050307080339.gif

The diagram is describing only what is occurring in the crust (lithosphere). It doesn't address any conditions deep in the Mantle, the way this diagram does:

https://www.sciencenews.org/sites/default/files/main/articles/ts_yellowstone.png

All right:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-iUQtQa1Hj84/Ucxe5IoAUyI/AAAAAAAAPS0/AmVrYseH4Bw/s1100/Subduction_Cascades.jpg

... still laughing?

How about this:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/Earth-cutaway-schematic-english.svg/1024px-Earth-cutaway-schematic-english.svg.png
-----------------------------------------------



....and the water indicated in the surface conditions of this diagram are describing the Pacific Ocean, unless you can show me a large body of water between Yellowstone and the Pacific ocean. The scale on that diagram is completely distorted. I don't see any legend there indicating that blue layer being water, much less the Pacific Ocean.

What I do see is a vertical scale and a horizontal scale given by the caldera diameter which topographical features are represented; but no Cascade Range relief being shown... so, maybe the scales aren't distorted that much?


It should be obvious,....

observer
20th April 2016, 22:06
Give it up Hervé, you're loosing points in this debate with each comment.

1. The only movement of the North American Plate in question, is that sharply focused area including the Juan de Fuca/North American Subduction Zone, out-to the Yellowstone Caldaria, including only the zone where the hotspot exists. Any other element of your talking-points is moot to the debate. Your suggestion to a "relative motion" in that specific area is, in effect, a stipulation to the motion, I'm emphasizing.

2. You still cannot get past the magma vs. hot rock issue, while from the start, debating the semantics of the words was your thing. I represented the MT Data diagram wholly to show the extent of the superheated area using alternate data. Berating that intent with a meaningless debate over the definition of words, appears to me, a sophomoric strategy.

3. And finely.... yes, I'm LMAO at the new diagrams you have produced. Neither of them extends the Asthenosphere beyond the Cascade range, even though, at the cut-off point of both diagrams, there's a clear indication of bright red activity to the East of where the diagram ends. Where-in the diagram I've republished (below) clearly indicates a much bigger picture of everything in the specific zone in question.

BTW: If you look at the depiction of the Pacific Ocean in your final diagram (the pie-shaped one), it appears exactly as the depiction of what I'm calling the Pacific Ocean in the out of scale diagram that you produced earlier - (republished below) Your explanation of scale shows no understanding of a schematic diagram.

https://www.sciencenews.org/sites/default/files/main/articles/ts_yellowstone.png

Calz
20th April 2016, 23:09
Not a popularity contest.

I deeply appreciate both of your contributions.


We ... the majority of members ... are trying to figure it out and both of you make tremendous contributions in that regard.

Hervé
21st April 2016, 00:32
...

R.I.P.

http://candydirectnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/yellowstone-magma-graphic.jpg
A magma chamber with enough material to fill the Grand Canyon 14 times over has been found beneath the Yellowstone supervolcano, researchers say. The finding yields insights into the "plumbing" system feeding the giant caldera.

(Photo : Hsin-Hua Huang | University of Utah)

http://www.techtimes.com/articles/48427/20150424/scientists-discover-giant-reservoir-of-molten-rock-under-yellowstone-park.htm




[...]
....and the water indicated in the surface conditions of this diagram are describing the Pacific Ocean, unless you can show me a large body of water between Yellowstone and the Pacific ocean. The scale on that diagram is completely distorted. I don't see any legend there indicating that blue layer being water, much less the Pacific Ocean.

What I do see is a vertical scale and a horizontal scale given by the caldera diameter which topographical features are represented; but no Cascade Range relief being shown... so, maybe the scales aren't distorted that much?


It should be obvious,....

observer
21st April 2016, 02:21
^^^^

Not so fast, Herve'....

Go to this link (http://earthquakes.berkeley.edu/~rallen/pub/2007xue/XueAllenEPSL2007.pdf), read the abstract, then study and read the description accompanying Figure 1.

Then scroll-dawn to page 8 and study figure 4, and read the description.

If you have the time read the entire PDF, you might learn something.

With regard to the improved diagram you've provided from Tech Times, all you've proven is that the diagram is only a partial representation (a segment so-to-speak) of a much larger geological system.

The data provided on the Science Direct PDF covers a much larger geological area, and should lead to a better understanding of the concept I've been attempting to deliver....

Most of the information contained in the Science Direct PDF, contradicts much of what you've said throughout this debate.

Note: for those interested members who are unfamiliar with the terminology found in the PDF, Ma = Million Years in geology-speak.

observer
22nd April 2016, 03:30
I've been aware there is more to the Yellowstone Plume Head controversy for some period of time. I recall reading an article more than a year ago describing how the hotspot causing the Yellowstone Caldera has its origins deep within the mantle, and how it's all integrated with the Costal Subduction Zone. Geological Models have been pointing to the "Yellowstone Hotspot Track", a footprint of evidence dating-back more than 16 million years, and beginning just East of the Cascade Range; all undisputable evidence that there is a much larger picture involved, as opposed to isolated studies of thumbnail segments to this geological system.

Here's another link that's easier to understand, which duplicates the data in the link given in comment #47:
https://seismo.berkeley.edu/annual_report/ar06_07/node154.html

.... and another on the same topic:
http://geology.gsapubs.org/content/40/5/479.full

So, to recapitulate what I've been attempting to present, there's not much argument regarding any sort of "debate among geologists" when it comes to a thorough study of the data....

TeXaR
23rd April 2016, 14:08
Observer, I appreciate your input to the discussion just as MorningSong does. Why did you unsubscribe? Your information is so valuable. And not only the information you give on this subject, but on many other subjects.

It's important what you actually stated in your reply #10 and where this whole debate started.


I've said for a long time, if Yellowstone were going to erupt, as that eruption has been predicted from the geologic record of frequency, it would have to happen at a location East of the current caldera.


It sounds logic to me : The plate is moving westwards, so the Hot Spot is moving to the East, as the crust moves over the Hot Spot....

Can't you come back, observer?

PathWalker
23rd April 2016, 14:34
Observer, I appreciate your input to the discussion just as MorningSong does. Why did you unsubscribe?
Can't you come back, observer?
Unsubscribed means banned by the moderators.
Usually the moderators records this in the RECORD of MODERATOR ACTIONS (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78116-RECORD-of-MODERATOR-ACTIONS) thread.
I did not notice any guidelines breach here. But we do not have the full picture.
This banning is most unusual and hope Bill will post a comment on this soon.

Thanks
Joy and happiness
PathWalker




Note from Bill: Thanks: you're ahead of us here! I'll make a 'formal' post in just a moment. Yes, there was a bigger picture. Please give me a few minutes and I'll say just a little more.

Update: now posted here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78116-RECORD-of-MODERATOR-ACTIONS&p=1063212&viewfull=1#post1063212).

TeXaR
23rd April 2016, 16:57
Observer, I appreciate your input to the discussion just as MorningSong does. Why did you unsubscribe?
Can't you come back, observer?
Unsubscribed means banned by the moderators.
Usually the moderators records this in the RECORD of MODERATOR ACTIONS (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78116-RECORD-of-MODERATOR-ACTIONS) thread.
I did not notice any guidelines breach here. But we do not have the full picture.
This banning is most unusual and hope Bill will post a comment on this soon.

Thanks
Joy and happiness
PathWalker




Note from Bill: Thanks: you're ahead of us here! I'll make a 'formal' post in just a moment. Yes, there was a bigger picture. Please give me a few minutes and I'll say just a little more.

Update: now posted here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78116-RECORD-of-MODERATOR-ACTIONS&p=1063212&viewfull=1#post1063212).


As Hervé was participating on this thread as member and not as a moderator, I wonder if Bill is backing the right one here.
Frustrating or provoking someone to eventually get a hostile reaction can be a cunning art ....






From Bill: Yes, a cunning art it is. It depends who was doing the provoking! Hervé is a professionally qualified geophysicist, and I'm convinced observer had misunderstandings that he wasn't able to get past. At that point, the history (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78116-RECORD-of-MODERATOR-ACTIONS&p=1063212&viewfull=1#post1063212) of observer's earlier many personal frustrations kicked in.

:focus:




UPDATE from TeXaR

Here happened the same, killing the thread this time.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18569-Yellowstone-Announced-to-be-Much-Bigger-Than-Originally-Thought&p=199139&viewfull=1#post199139

Hervé
23rd April 2016, 17:39
[...]
It sounds logic to me : The plate is moving westwards, so the Hot Spot is moving to the East, as the crust moves over the Hot Spot....
[...]

The past relative motion between the two objects was never in dispute... my point (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90025-Boiling-To-Life--Vents-Opening-Around-Yellowstone&p=1062019&viewfull=1#post1062019), that seem to have never gotten across, is that there is no new evidence for a "new eastward migration of either plume or magma chambers" with respect to the crust.

If you take a good look at your own statement, it implies both hot spot/plume are moving in opposite directions... that would make for a fast travel speed of the hot spot across the North American continent. :)

An analogy would be like a passenger inside a train... the earth is rotating, the train is either stopped or moving and the passenger may be seated or walking inside that train. It all boils down to which frame of reference one arbitrarily pins down as "fixed": the walking passenger? The train's frame? Or the earth?

Then, what if that passenger decides to walk from one side of the train to the other? Or, instead of walking toward the front of the train changes course and walks toward the back?... all the while the train leaves the station...

All, we have from the data is: " no new migration of either plume or magma chambers" with respect to the ground surface.

... that's a seated passenger taken as the reference system, whether the train is moving or not :)

seeker/reader
23rd April 2016, 18:00
Hotspots are stationary and are sourced deep within the mantle. They are not produced by a subducting slab causing vulcanism. The geochemistry of magmas produced via subduction is different than those produced from mantle plumes, which indicates they have a different source.

TeXaR
23rd April 2016, 18:32
[...]
It sounds logic to me : The plate is moving westwards, so the Hot Spot is moving to the East, as the crust moves over the Hot Spot....
[...]

The past relative motion between the two objects was never in dispute... my point (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90025-Boiling-To-Life--Vents-Opening-Around-Yellowstone&p=1062019&viewfull=1#post1062019), that seem to have never gotten across, is that there is no new evidence for a "new eastward migration of either plume or magma chambers" with respect to the crust.

If you take a good look at your own statement, it implies both hot spot/plume are moving in opposite directions... that would make for a fast travel speed of the hot spot across the North American continent. :)

An analogy would be like a passenger inside a train... the earth is rotating, the train is either stopped or moving and the passenger may be seated or walking inside that train. It all boils down to which frame of reference one arbitrarily pins down as "fixed": the walking passenger? The train's frame? Or the earth?

Then, what if that passenger decides to walk from one side of the train to the other? Or, instead of walking toward the front of the train changes course and walks toward the back?... all the while the train leaves the station...

All, we have from the data is: " no new migration of either plume or magma chambers" with respect to the ground surface.

... that's a seated passenger taken as the reference system, whether the train is moving or not :)


Since I ended the sentence with "as the crust moves over the Hot Spot...", I pointed out that the inner Hot Spot (most likely) stays in place (indeed, seeker/reader). It just shows up as an eruption on the surface in another (more eastward) location, as the crust moves westwards.
It has to make a new 'exit' to release the power and will appear on an other location than the former eruption.

Unfortunately I can't copy and paste a pdf , but this link will lead you to an explanation of what I'm trying to say and what, I'm sure, observer wanted to say.
But of course, you as a professionally qualified geophysicist, will know this. Then why all this 'hairsplitting'?

https://books.google.nl/books?id=6Qlx3DM7_FYC&pg=PA194&lpg=PA194&dq=And+as+the+plate+moves+westward,+the+hot+spot+i n+relation+to+Yellowstone+and+Wyoming+will+move&source=bl&ots=2b0XzJIBpc&sig=Xeh7Oe7xP9tsL7w4lwfq1zNlmSs&hl=nl&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_jI7ahp3MAhXBuBoKHQG7AYoQ6AEINDAD#v=on epage&q&f=false

Excuse me for my clumsy English. I'm not a native speaker and I realize very well that I'm not a match for you, but an easy target so to say :)

Paul
23rd April 2016, 20:01
As announced here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78116-RECORD-of-MODERATOR-ACTIONS&p=1063282&viewfull=1#post1063282), we closed the account of TeXaR.

justntime2learn
29th April 2016, 18:57
Terrifying New Video Shows What Is Really Going on at Yellowstone
Tuesday, April 26, 2016 22:23

https://dailymedia.info/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/crack3-640x335.jpg

"Over that past month, our planet has been hit by large earthquake after large earthquake, and there are currently 40 volcanoes erupting and 44 on high alert. And now for the past week, there has been a dramatic spike in global seismic activity that is unlike anything we have seen in years, making what is going on incredibly alarming!

I want to share with you some footage recorded on Thursday night from Yellowstone. Something strange you will notice is that it appears to be a bright day even though it is in the middle of the night, you will be able to see a plethora of geysers steaming violently, and Old faithful just keeps going over and over again."

http://beforeitsnews.com/blogging-citizen-journalism/2016/04/terrifying-new-video-shows-what-is-really-going-on-at-yellowstone-2535799.html

onawah
29th April 2016, 19:08
More fear porn? That is a known disinfo source.

Hervé
29th April 2016, 19:20
Terrifying New Video Shows What Is Really Going on at Yellowstone
Tuesday, April 26, 2016 22:23

[...]

Hi there,

Had you followed your own thread, you might have noticed said video was already posted and discussed starting from here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90025-Boiling-To-Life--Vents-Opening-Around-Yellowstone&p=1061697&viewfull=1#post1061697

justntime2learn
29th April 2016, 19:50
More fear porn? That is a known disinfo source.

I suppose I relied on this and I am horribly sorry.

I'm learning as fast as I can!

Right after I posted on Cidersomerset's thread that I would like to share an email chain between my state representative Sherrie Sprenger and I (about aliens) there was no response by anyone :(

My google account was hacked on the 14th of this month and I still cannot regain access to it.

Maybe I'm not justntime2learn ...

gittarpikk
3rd June 2013, 11:46
Missed on...I'm sure there are others.
http://nesaranews.blogspot.com/
http://beforeitsnews.com
http://fourwinds10.com
http://benjaminfulford.typepad.com
http://kauilapele.wordpress.com/

onawah
29th April 2016, 19:54
Just keep trying, justintime2learn.
There's still time! :nod:
There's a lot of disinfo out there, and it may take a few years to develop the discernment you need to recognize it by the smell, but it does happen.
It's a process.

justntime2learn
29th April 2016, 19:54
Terrifying New Video Shows What Is Really Going on at Yellowstone
Tuesday, April 26, 2016 22:23

[...]

Hi there,

Had you followed your own thread, you might have noticed said video was already posted and discussed starting from here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90025-Boiling-To-Life--Vents-Opening-Around-Yellowstone&p=1061697&viewfull=1#post1061697

I am deeply sorry for my arrogance

justntime2learn
29th April 2016, 21:02
In order to join Avalon you must be invited I was told upon entering.

If this is true, I wonder why I was invited?





Clarification from Bill: you applied online, and the mods accepted your application. That's what's meant by an 'invitation'.

Paul
29th April 2016, 21:12
In order to join Avalon you must be invited I was told upon entering.

If this is true, I wonder why I was invited?





Clarification from Bill: you applied online, and the mods accepted your application. That's what's meant by an 'invitation'.


I believe that the term "invited" was introduced earlier in the history of Avalon, back in 2010, when actual invitations were sent out, mostly to members of the earlier incarnation of the forum, the now read-only Old Project Avalon Forum (ARCHIVE) (http://projectavalon.net/forum).

As often happens with words, their use extends past their original application, and continues on, even though the basic word no longer accurately applies.

Jhonie
30th April 2016, 03:11
I have a friend who lives near Yellowstone. She said nothing unusual is happening.

justntime2learn
21st May 2016, 19:32
I have a friend who lives near Yellowstone. She said nothing unusual is happening.

That's wonderful to hear because it looks like we have to take a trip to Colorado very soon. My mother was visiting my uncle and here is the update I just received . Update on Vicky. She's getting bathed right now. Broken sleep because of the checkups all night. Getting more sensation in hands and feet. Very weak. Can't hold anything. Raised platelets from 1,000 to 30,000 yesterday, back down to 7,000 this morning. Should be 100,000, can't do surgery under 50,000 because of bleeding. May have to remove spleen first.