ARE YOU SPECIAL or are you ENTITLED? (The Extremism Of Veganism: Exposing The Greatest Lie)

[kirolak]

Please watch this powerful presentation - are you REALLY awake? Or maybe sleepwalking though the APPARENT awakening?? Do you have the guts to watch this??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUTgZ7s_hiw#

[justntime2learn]

Please watch this powerful presentation - are you REALLY awake? Or maybe sleepwalking though the APPARENT awakening?? Do you have the guts to watch this??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUTgZ7s_hiw#

I'm hooked after the first statement of the video!

[kirolak]

Thank you, I feel so desperate & alone in this fight. . . why do so few break this barrier of darkness?

[justntime2learn]

Thank you, I feel so desperate & alone in this fight. . . why do so few break this barrier of darkness?

In a word?
Programming ...

[conk]

Deleted. No place for argument or discussion of my feelings on the subject. I can sense your tremendous and sincere desire for change, and your immense respect for these animals. Your heart is wide open and emitting healing energy. Not the place and time for me to invade that precious space. :bearhug:

[Agape]

It's so sad , so cruel . Substantial part of the agony and amnesia of human civilisation
Maybe many will disagree but how much did 'we' ( humans ) become like 'them' ( animals ) ,
eating each other for thousands and millions of years in order to survive .

I'm not trying to excuse one party or another and agree that everyone should see this to make their choice ( and bet sure , the sons and daughters of butchers ..won't blink an eye on it because the killer instinct circles in their blood , the same way it's present in the 'genes' of any predatory species so there are unfortunately people whose number I can't estimate who won't share our emotion )

but see the greater interconnectedness of life . Every food is love . Predator loves his prey that's why they eat it at the first place .
It's an extremely primitive instinct and you'd call it perverted pleasure but if you look to the way psychopaths think you'll see how some of the human ancestors been and what genetic trends and traces were inherited from them
and how low did they descend . I think . The strange combination of 'heights' and 'lows' that mothered this human civilisation is almost endless .

They'll eat critters . They may once again start eating each other corpses in order to sustain themselves longer . They want to go back to caves.

If majority of people or even few can make it out to-be-humane , to realise the meaning and fullness of human potential and character through awareness and loving kindness , to find there's such a character instead of brainwashing each other to become numbers, empty soulless creatures without morals and opinion ,
intelligent machines ,
there's always a hope .

Animals abide by the law of jungle and the nature will take care of this and bring them down at their own expense at the end .

People of today think that 'happy' is the new 'enlightened' but maybe it's always been that way , the real seers of old .. they seldom talked and seldom smiled .



:panda:

[soul]

I wonder, what was it that stopped you from eating meat?

In my case it was a moment, in one second i no longer felt the need. Nobody talked me into it, i wasn't thinking about it either. Just the look made me walk away.
I would like for it to be false but from pure observation there is a factor that fixes things. Not sure if it is influenced by us.

[Agape]

I wonder, what was it that stopped you from eating meat?

In my case it was a moment, in one second i no longer felt the need. Nobody talked me into it, i wasn't thinking about it either. Just the look made me walk away.
I would like for it to be false but from pure observation there is a factor that fixes things. Not sure if it is influenced by us.

I did think and feel about lots of things , as a teenager especially .. and came to my own conclusions , decisions and awareness . So i basically decided it's a 'sin' at some point and tried to refrain from it .
Later , as 19 year old i left to study to India in quest of the same deeper , greater truth and was so blessed and relieved to meet an ancient culture who teach and practice non-violence and being purely vegetarian .

In those days here in Europe the awareness of such issues was so scarce really that i was mocked even by my own mum for my truth and views and vegetarians were really looked upon as 'extreme nuts' .
Talking of situation 25 , 23 years ago .. so lots has improved since then , there are many purely vegetarian places, vegan restaurants and shops where people can go to shop and dine ,
unfortunately it's still an oddity compared to the whole and most 'organic food' is expensive , imported or both.

[Agape]

Thank you, I feel so desperate & alone in this fight. . . why do so few break this barrier of darkness?

I can get very sad on such things, the news , the endless wars , too sad ..

but it's probably important to realise it's been that way since the beginning when we set out foot on this planet .

The first of 4 Noble Truth of Buddha is realisation that 'Life Is Suffering' .

Every day somewhere someone dies and someone is born anew, every minute or less . Someone have the best day today and many their worse .
Change is inevitable to all living things .. Time proceeds with its steady or fluctuating vector to form yet unknown future , leaving the imprint of its past like carpet woven to hyperspace . Everything just transforms ..

There are planets in faraway stars that are far more hospitable to host advanced life like yours than here ..

Seeing any one part of the truth , of the chain of causes and consequences is still a view broken to countless facets ,

the state free of suffering is not of this world


in order to accommodate this extreme human situation we need to achieve extraordinary wisdom
that will heal the rest


:sleep:

[Constance]

Thank you, I feel so desperate & alone in this fight. . . why do so few break this barrier of darkness?

You are not alone my sweet sister.

One of our roles on Mother Earth here, may well be to inspire others to be able to see what they cannot yet see.

There is a saying "You cannot appreciate what you cannot perceive."

When one becomes consciously aware that animals are just us in another form it changes everything.

My love to you and to all beings :sun:

[kirolak]

Thank you all for your strong responses, I feel such a deep connection to you all. . . . :flower: btw, regarding the question as to when I stopped eating meat, I never did eat it, I was a weird child who would only eat boiled rice, which I 'd squeeze into a ball in my hand. . .. must have been in an eastern body in a recent incarnation :) I'd only drink black tea but preferred water. My mother had me at the doctor constantly, complaining I would not eat; bizarrely, I was advised to drink Coca Cola, after which I was sick for days. Finally, they fed me black beer (stout?) in an effort to make me put on some weight ; odd!

[soul]

Not sure if it is influenced by us.

I changed my mind, i totally cannot eat my cheese sandwiches right now. This video did it! (tried reaching them with my hand but it just stops!)
btw. i heard from a man that runs marathons that he goes on multiple (even around 20 days) hunger strikes and that he believes that no disease can make it.
Seems like a good idea.

[raff]

I feel that when we are inside this paradigm bubble everything is so intense, excruciating, unchanging and personal. But I "sense" that like any paradigm once it is resolved all the pain will be like it never existed. Like the pain was healed and replaced with something beautiful and enriching. A foundation of experience that will spread into the cosmos and serve as a way of liberation.
I'm guessing that If we do choose to come here knowing of the experiences we wish to go through then the farmed beings (we can include ourselves in this) are willing to sacrafice ourselves on this altar of earthly life. The bit i can't understand is the value of this experience. Imo this pain does not seem worth the payoff. But I don't yet know what the true value is perhaps that's one for the soul to answer but mine seems strangely mute on the subject.

[raff]

Because they are not challenged. Like any programing if it is strongly programmed one way you need something as strong to bring it over to the other side. Education, education, education. Show the pain being caused, highlight at every opportunity, support those who can magnify this effort like PETA.

[ghostrider]

Everyone is special, only you can experience life from your perspective and return that knowledge back to Creation making it ewiser .

Without you Creation can't view the universe through your eyes, through your perspective... That is why everyone is special...

[Pam]

Please watch this powerful presentation - are you REALLY awake? Or maybe sleepwalking though the APPARENT awakening?? Do you have the guts to watch this??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUTgZ7s_hiw#



Thank you, kirolak. I have always respected your understanding of this world as reflected by your posts. I do not find it any easier to live on this planet as time passes. I live every moment of every day with the awareness of what my species is doing to all other living things. We are even perpetuating evil on our own kind. Along time ago I made a commitment to see the world as it really is and what I see terrifies me. How do we live with this disconnect????

I feel their torture every day. I am so ashamed of what we have done. I don't eat animals, I don't use animal products, I work for animal rescues and I don't feel like it is anything. I no longer feel like it will make a difference, except to me. The madness is so huge and permeating.

I do not believe consciousness can evolve significantly until we can look this monster square in the eye and have the courage to correct the wrongs we have committed.

[kirolak]

Peterpan, thank you for your deep wisdom & insight. . . I know how hard it is to live when one "knows" . . .there is no going back, no un-knowing.. . , ,

[Pam]

I have been contemplating the presentation, and realize many will rationalize behaviors by saying we are programmed. I do believe we are programmed, but I don't accept that as an excuse. Many people were raise in highly dysfunctional situations and I don't see that as an excuse for perpetuating the behavior. It may make it harder, that is for sure. I do think that each of us have been gifted with an internal barometer that that lets us know if our lives are aligned with our vision of what we want to be. I also know we can ignore it, deny it, or buffer it with drugs, food , sex, money, technology and the list goes on.

I like to look at my life as an artistic creation. I ask myself if I am manifesting in the material world the vision of what I want my life to look like. I spent years drugging my consciousness so that I could live a life that was the opposite of what I knew I wanted. I allowed myself to be weak, I put my vision in the back seat of what others wanted. I didn't want conflict and sold my soul to avoid it. I got to the point where I had to make dramatic changes or I was going to self destruct. In fact, I wasn't even able to self destruct successfully.

I have spent the last 10 years manifesting the life that I envision. It is hard to do on a planet where right is wrong, selfishness is called love, where greed is called success and yes means no. It is really hard to navigate. I know that I must be willing to let go of anything that stands in the way of path that leads to the creation of a life that matches externally with the ideals and values that I hold internally. I see really clearly that this is the purpose and meaning of my life. I am so grateful to people, like the speaker in this presentation for articulating and educating in a compassionate way the truth that is so well hidden from us if we want it to be. I am grateful for kirolak, who speaks her truth no matter how unpopular it might be. True hero's won't be rewarded in this culture, they will mostly be demonized. Instead we will give our adoration to rock stars, and people who throw balls in games. We will adore them no matter how despicable their personal lives may be. We will respect people that have bank accounts with large numbers of dollars in their accounts...it is a topsy turvey world where madness masks as sanity and those that are truly sane are laughed at and dismissed.

If you are not already doing so, can I suggest that today is as good as any to create the beautiful tapestry of life that will be your legacy. What do you want your life to look like when you have completed it. Dare to visualize your legacy, dare to recreate it if you see fit. This is what we have free will for, use it wisely.

[bettye198]

Like all ideologies that require change, veganism is one important decision. Yes, we are programmed so overtly and covertly throughout childhood so when we desire the comfort of food, what do we think of?

I have vegan patients who we honor. They maintain that with raising families, until family members make that jump. That is honorable. The only time you can ever change is when it is an inside job. Thank you for this compelling video. I also watched her other video about eggs. And I have seen, read many presentations regarding meat.

In the last five years, and maybe it is my age or just that urging within, I have removed red meat from my diet. Chicken is only bought from very organic, free pasture, no hormone farms but that is only eaten rarely. I look away from any farm raised fish and choose Atlantic wild if I have a yen. So that said, mostly my diet consists of plant based, nuts, seeds, protein drink ( made from powdered goat whey), fruit, vegetables in large supply, and some gluten free grains. Protein is high in certain green vegies. The problem I see with veganism or vegetarianism is that these people migrate to other odd choices like too much sugar, too many grains, pastaholics, too many protein bars and actually alcohol. The balance has to be figured out. I still like eggs from pasture raised chicks but noticed that I eat them less and less. When I was a true vegan 15 yrs ago, I subbed with the fake soy protein isolate and fake eggs and I got very sick. Of course! Later realized the toxicity of soy and how it was sprayed and processed. But now, wiser and older, I am in the balancing act.

[Marikins]

Truly awful and so sad. They are hardened to doing it and we are hardened to eat it. I really see the world going vegetarian if not for heartfelt reasons, for economic and climate-related reasons.

[Agape]

Thank you, kirolak. I have always respected your understanding of this world as reflected by your posts. I do not find it any easier to live on this planet as time passes. I live every moment of every day with the awareness of what my species is doing to all other living things. We are even perpetuating evil on our own kind. Along time ago I made a commitment to see the world as it really is and what I see terrifies me. How do we live with this disconnect????

I feel their torture every day. I am so ashamed of what we have done. I don't eat animals, I don't use animal products, I work for animal rescues and I don't feel like it is anything. I no longer feel like it will make a difference, except to me. The madness is so huge and permeating.

I do not believe consciousness can evolve significantly until we can look this monster square in the eye and have the courage to correct the wrongs we have committed.



I know the feeling . It's also ..very old one . Realising our own helplessness in the face of human multitudes .

I remember , 1993 .. when I went to India for the first time and then started to teach here .. and it was the time of spiritual awakening for the society,
after decades of closed borders and people wanted to know , they wanted to change .

They watched movies like Baraka ( the full copy is probably somewhere in Avalon archives as well )

XEb1iZ2JYHI

and everyone was appalled at the sight of millions of cute chicks going under the mill and many promised ( to themselves , or their friends ) never to eat them again.
Things felt more optimistic for the society back then but even then I realised we could maximally form an 'offshoot civilisation'
because the rest of society will never agree to the same compassionate ideas ,

their 'happiness' still rests in having any of their traditional 'meat chunk' and 'beer caldron' and the makings of the society stands mostly on shoulders and decisions of those people .

I never felt the right to tell people what to eat unless they asked and unless i could feed them .

The universal constant ( and teaching ) i arrived at later turned to be 'compassion'. Compassion for the people - who despite being intelligent entities and not animals - who descended so low .
I'd cry for the criminals because they themselves were the sufferers , the victims, those in pain our senseless society did not care about .
At the bottom line i think , there's no choice .. either you'd have to run away from this version of humanity totally disgusted ( and i did and do, so often ) or , start feeling for them on deeper level.

Can't say it's right or if it helps .

But meeting some of my friends here who are in the 'treadmill' of daily business and just watching local body-mind archetypes it's also rather clear to me how surviving and working alongside the same people would turn impossible ,
in long run , if they don't feed the same way .

The strong 'meat mountain' of average manual worker or your aggressive businessman did not come 'out of nowhere' , it's a result of generations and generations of people who fed on animal proteins .

Going 'vegan' for few days, weeks or even years may be extremely beneficial for your health ( though, diet - nutrition is strictly individual and people have to be sensitive to make a good choice ) and it does change your body type too.

But, and that goes perfectly along the 'philosophy' of 'no killing ' and 'no cheating' , you can't expect from you/us to outsmart the 'strong progressives' who are the builders and manipulators of the society.
At best , they never hurt you , they respect .. but it's impossible to spend time in their reality without getting ill and suffocating myself ..

It turns to be a 'wholeness choice' and when i saw to the history of the planet and its human tribes , i saw both groups have always been here as well,
two types of civilisation.
The utterly peaceful, spiritually mature , settled people with rich minds and views who never wanted to invade anyone and lived undisturbed if allowed ,
building their beautiful civilisation by their own means ..

and the others, the hunters , warriors , the 'strong men' whose 'thirst for life' compelled them to anything that would sustain themselves and their mentality , the brutes .
Unfortunately for us .. the brutes often won the 'evolution race' if not only for fact they stole properties , stole lives , raped women of the peaceful tribes too .
So after each historical epoch mankind became more and more inter-mixed .

I'm afraid that one day some evil mind will put people to the same treadmill ..

like in the Soylent Green (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green) movie .

The disadvantage on our side .. the non-violent vegan pacifist truther .. add your own definition of who you are ,i feel , is in not having enough strength or even willingness left to fight for the truth you represent .

But .. no matter how many noble ideas have we seen falling , someone, somewhere will preserve .. the truth won't die .

The paradox of man-eating-animal is in fact, over the generations it's the animal who managed to eat man .


Nature is smart :dog:

[raff]

After reading your comment it made me realise that this earth is tiny compared to the huge amount of stars, planets and life in the cosmos and that this experience we and our brethren in the animal and sea kingdoms are going through will serve a higher purpose. The character of what is a guardian is to care, nurture and enlighten. The great sacrafice given by our brethren has to serve a higher purpose and that i believe is for humanities full purpose of becoming a guardian race in the cosmos. From this micro experience to the macro we will bring our hearts and experiences one day and care for other beings process of awakening. It is one thing to heal all wounds but it is another to have this blueprint of experience to change the very nature of existence everywhere. I feel that this guardian race will carry great heart and compassion and have great purpose something we here have yet not realised. This is just a feeling of mine about this.

[Pam]

After reading your comment it made me realise that this earth is tiny compared to the huge amount of stars, planets and life in the cosmos and that this experience we and our brethren in the animal and sea kingdoms are going through will serve a higher purpose. The character of what is a guardian is to care, nurture and enlighten. The great sacrafice given by our brethren has to serve a higher purpose and that i believe is for humanities full purpose of becoming a guardian race in the cosmos. From this micro experience to the macro we will bring our hearts and experiences one day and care for other beings process of awakening. It is one thing to heal all wounds but it is another to have this blueprint of experience to change the very nature of existence everywhere. I feel that this guardian race will carry great heart and compassion and have great purpose something we here have yet not realised. This is just a feeling of mine about this.



raff, you are a visionary! Reading your post gave me a glimmer of hope that their might be a purpose to this madness. Thank you. I have to believe that the purity of spirit exhibited by our partners on this planet (the animals and plants) has a higher purpose then to be used as food, entertainment, torture and drug experimentation by humans.

I do see the potential of the human race. And the odd thing is, I very rarely see the ugly side of humanity on an individual basis. Perhaps most of us are guilty of sins of omission rather than commission. In other words, most of us would not partake in the evil, and certainly not initiate it, rather we look the other way and let it happen.

[raff]

Yes I believe your right. Spirit is pure and that can be sometimes difficult to comprehend. But it is no surprise that so much of the dark forces mission is to dumb us down, drug us and distract us. Even in our minds we have parasites that are so clever and insidious that we are not even aware that they exist and feed off of us. Its staggering how much of a war is going on here and that how much has been poured into this earthly experience. It's like all the ills and wickedness of all the universe's has been planted here on this good earth to grow. And we are the processing plant to transform it and bring value to it. I kind of feel that this is totally managed from the creator sphere like making a great soup. I know that sounds harsh from our perspective but how must this creator feel about us if we are here to make this transformation. We've got to be some serious beings (all of us) to face this hellish soup concocted here (i read once that no one comes to earthly experience unless they have been a master or mastered a level of creation. It is staggering to imagine how much effort is given for life to exist here, the sacrafice given is beyond my comprehension and we so much want this to change quickly for the good of all but spirit i imagine is in no rush and will do everything it takes for people to catch on and wake up. What an amazing courageous heart Spirit is but also bloody frightening to imagine. And this is
who we are all of us and this is what i remember. It is sooo sad and my heart bleeds for this pain we and our family are going through but I must honour this sacrafice and fight the good fight and honour this great Spirit that has undertaken this creation and all that that entails even when In my conscious mind i disagree with it. I believe Spirit will redeem all hells and all pain and karma and make something that we cannot conceptualize in words or imagination. My favourite line that has stuck in my memory (and for me captures the essence of this )and was written by Tolkien in the Lord of the Rings (return of the king) was when Gandalf the wizard said.....there are many folk who wish to know beforehand what is to be set on the table, but those who labour to prepare the feast will keep their secret, for wonder makes the words of praise grow louder.

[Bill Ryan]

Thank you for this thread. :bearhug:

I have to say, I see this as just a part of a much, MUCH wider phenomenon that's unfolding all around us. Read this thread:




The Cry of Gaia
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?23176-The-Cry-of-Gaia

The human race is becoming increasingly disconnected from nature. We all lose, not just the 150 species that are becoming extinct each day.

We're in the middle of the sixth mass extinction on this planet in the last several billion years. Right now, as you're reading these words.

From the introduction to Thom Hartmann's masterwork, The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight: (http://www.amazon.com/The-Last-Hours-Ancient-Sunlight/dp/1400051576)

http://projectavalon.net/Introduction_Thom_Hartmann_Last_Hours_of_Ancient_Sunlight.jpg

[Clear Light]

Thank you, I feel so desperate & alone in this fight. . . why do so few break this barrier of darkness?

Hi Kirolak :wave:

I read your post some days ago and wanted to reply but didn't have the words to convey something which may be of help to you ... but then this quote came to mind just now so here it is as it is something that has helped "me" on my journey :heart:

To live a spiritual life we must first find the courage
to enter into the desert of loneliness and to change it
by gentle and persistent efforts into a garden of solitude.

Henri Nouwen

Apologies if it is unrelated to what you were "getting at" with your original post !

[raff]

Wow Bill what an article. I'll try not to get all fan girlie on you as i am after all a geezer from sarf London and we have standards to maintain. Beautiful and full of pathos. I need to re-read your article because it's so beautiful and profound. Much obliged to you.

[Isserley]

Thank you, I feel so desperate & alone in this fight. . . why do so few break this barrier of darkness?

I can get very sad on such things, the news , the endless wars , too sad ..

but it's probably important to realise it's been that way since the beginning when we set out foot on this planet .

The first of 4 Noble Truth of Buddha is realisation that 'Life Is Suffering' .

Every day somewhere someone dies and someone is born anew, every minute or less . Someone have the best day today and many their worse .
Change is inevitable to all living things .. Time proceeds with its steady or fluctuating vector to form yet unknown future , leaving the imprint of its past like carpet woven to hyperspace . Everything just transforms ..

There are planets in faraway stars that are far more hospitable to host advanced life like yours than here ..

Seeing any one part of the truth , of the chain of causes and consequences is still a view broken to countless facets ,

the state free of suffering is not of this world


in order to accommodate this extreme human situation we need to achieve extraordinary wisdom
that will heal the rest


:sleep:

uhhh so powerfull and so so true.. thank you I needed that, because I also have big problems with the acceptance of brutality in this world..

[Pam]

Bill, I don't know how I missed that most beautiful thread, but I was overwhelmed with the beauty and truth you so eloquently shared. I think you have hit the nail on the head. It is the huge disconnect from the natural world that allows what is happening to occur. How many children grow up and have no real idea where food comes from? The disconnect is all pervading. Children are taught to not get dirty, to have a terrible fear of all germs and to fear animals, unless they have been domesticated by humans.

There is also, the helplessness. How do we stop this insanity? We no longer look at the whole of things. Everything seems to be broken up for the purpose of greed and quick profit. We no longer understand that everything is connected and one act will effect the whole. Everything that we do matters.

[Clear Light]

Thank you, I feel so desperate & alone in this fight. . . why do so few break this barrier of darkness?

I can get very sad on such things, the news , the endless wars , too sad ..

but it's probably important to realise it's been that way since the beginning when we set out foot on this planet .

The first of 4 Noble Truth of Buddha is realisation that 'Life Is Suffering' .

Every day somewhere someone dies and someone is born anew, every minute or less . Someone have the best day today and many their worse .
Change is inevitable to all living things .. Time proceeds with its steady or fluctuating vector to form yet unknown future , leaving the imprint of its past like carpet woven to hyperspace . Everything just transforms ..

There are planets in faraway stars that are far more hospitable to host advanced life like yours than here ..

Seeing any one part of the truth , of the chain of causes and consequences is still a view broken to countless facets ,

the state free of suffering is not of this world


in order to accommodate this extreme human situation we need to achieve extraordinary wisdom
that will heal the rest


:sleep:

uhhh so powerfull and so so true.. thank you I needed that, because I also have big problems with the acceptance of brutality in this world..

Which is where I'd suggest Compassion comes into play because by being in touch with our own Mortality could bring about the understanding that we're all on the same boat together (so-to-speak) ...

[raff]

Dear Peterpam, the world is a big place and we cannot carry this all on our shoulders. We can pray, unite and meditate and do many more things (i always loved the idea of marching in every city centre across the world with a multitude of those animals/people that are farmed and shock/awaken the conscience of everyone to this daily holocaust) and everything we can do has an impact. But as you know people are hard to convince or even change their habits. I asked mother earth once how may I best serve her and the feeling i got was to be happy, as happy as I could make it. Imo If we have a job to do is not to forget our brethren and find whatever means to plant goodlife and happiness on this here good earth. Follow the stream of one's heart and all dreams will be fulfilled.

[Clear Light]

Thank you, I feel so desperate & alone in this fight. . . why do so few break this barrier of darkness?

I can get very sad on such things, the news , the endless wars , too sad ..

but it's probably important to realise it's been that way since the beginning when we set out foot on this planet .

The first of 4 Noble Truth of Buddha is realisation that 'Life Is Suffering'. [1]

Every day somewhere someone dies and someone is born anew, every minute or less . Someone have the best day today and many their worse .
Change is inevitable to all living things .. Time proceeds with its steady or fluctuating vector to form yet unknown future , leaving the imprint of its past like carpet woven to hyperspace . Everything just transforms ..

There are planets in faraway stars that are far more hospitable to host advanced life like yours than here ..

Seeing any one part of the truth , of the chain of causes and consequences is still a view broken to countless facets ,

the state free of suffering is not of this world [3]


in order to accommodate this extreme human situation we need to achieve extraordinary wisdom
that will heal the rest


:sleep:

Oh, Hi Agape :wave:

I hope you don't mind if I query a couple of points as highlighted above ?

Now as I don't know what your source is for [1] and [3] I'd like to post a different interpretation of the 4NT's which I consider are rendered in a much more positive light ... this from RigpaWiki (http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Four_Noble_Truths) :

The Four Noble Truths or the Four Realities of the Aryas, were taught by Buddha Shakyamuni as the central theme of the so-called first turning of the wheel of the Dharma after his attainment of enlightenment. They are:

1. The truth (or reality) of suffering which is to be understood,
2. The truth (or reality) of the origin of suffering, which is to be abandoned,
3. The truth (or reality) of cessation, which is to be actualized, and
4. The truth (or reality) of the path, which is to be relied upon.

In other words, like a doctor, Buddha Shakyamuni diagnosed our illness, wrote out a prescription and left it to us to take the medicine eh ? :bigsmile:

[Bill Ryan]

The first of 4 Noble Truth of Buddha is realisation that 'Life Is Suffering' .



That was a description.

Not a prescription. :)

[Carmody]

For 30 years, I've never said or thought of the concept of "greenpeace."

I've said greenwar.

Why someone has not done something like drive a flaming transport truck (at speed) through the front office doors of a a group like (eg) Monsanto, (or whomever) is beyond me.

People really are asleep.

[Bill Ryan]

For 30 years, I've near said or thought of the concept of "greenpeace."

I've said greenwar.

Why someone has not done something like drive a flaming transport truck (at speed) through the front office doors of a a group like (eg) Monsanto, (or whomever) is beyond me.

Very highly recommended: The Monkey Wrench Gang (https://www.amazon.com/Monkey-Wrench-Gang-Edward-Abbey-ebook/dp/B005IHMTBS), by Edward Abbey.

From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Abbey):




Edward Paul Abbey (January 29, 1927 – March 14, 1989) was an American author and essayist noted for his advocacy of environmental criticism of public land policies, and anarchist political views. His best-known works include the novel The Monkey Wrench Gang (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monkey_Wrench_Gang), which has been cited as an inspiration by radical environmental groups.

The book is both a work of genius and a riot to read — and definitely inspiring, too. It's pretty easy to imagine someone putting the book down after the final page and heading straight for Monsanto.

[Agape]

The first of 4 Noble Truth of Buddha is realisation that 'Life Is Suffering' .



That was a description.

Not a prescription. :)

Well. The prescription is .. follow the chain of causes and consequences so to uncover causes of suffering within you ,

trace all to the origins of ignorance for indeed we suffer for we don't know .

And then , severe the head of the monster dragon , within you so you will also defeat both worlds and will be known as the great Dragon Slayer in the vaster realm of Dhammakaya.

Always abide by the principles of loving kindness , and righteousness ..

and never talk to the Man in Hat .


:bigsmile: :heart:

[RunningDeer]

pdf - The Monkey Wrench Gang, by Edward Abbey (http://www.pdf-archive.com/2014/06/30/the-monkey-wrench-gang-by-edwardabbey/the-monkey-wrench-gang-by-edwardabbey.pdf)

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/MonkeyWrenchGang_zpsqcravvy6.jpg

[Verdilac]

This is quite powerful film that can really have a profound effect on anyone that thinks its acceptable to kill animals. It is very hard to watch.

I find it very traumatic and can't really type much else as it just upsets me so much when I think about the suffering & murders committed.

The images are burned into my mind and lead me to the conclusion that humans have no place on this earth.

0h_F1VhIJoM

[Pam]

This is quite powerful film that can really have a profound effect on anyone that thinks its acceptable to kill animals. It is very hard to watch.

I find it very traumatic and can't really type much else as it just upsets me so much when I think about the suffering & murders committed.

The images are burned into my mind and lead me to the conclusion that humans have no place on this earth.

0h_F1VhIJoM



You are so right, Verdilac. Humans do not seem to have a place on this earth. We disrupt the balance. It seems very clear to me as well that there would be a balance of give and take if humans were not here.

That is the greatest mystery. Maybe we did have our DNA altered, maybe we are cursed. It seems as though we were placed here after the fact. One thing that seems apparent, we came with a gnawing emptiness that seems insatiable.

[Bill Ryan]

pdf - The Monkey Wrench Gang, by Edward Abbey (http://www.pdf-archive.com/2014/06/30/the-monkey-wrench-gang-by-edwardabbey/the-monkey-wrench-gang-by-edwardabbey.pdf)

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/MonkeyWrenchGang_zpsqcravvy6.jpg


Thank you!! That's a real gift. :star:

The direct download link from that page is
http://pdf-archive.com/2014/06/30/the-monkey-wrench-gang-by-edwardabbey/the-monkey-wrench-gang-by-edwardabbey.pdf

As I mentioned above, reading this is enough to motivate anyone to take direct action. The relevance (besides it being a most wonderful, iconic book) is that not too long ago, people would have gone out (and did go out) to do stuff.

Now — people stay at home, write blogs, make YouTube videos, and post on forums. :facepalm:

I do sometimes believe the internet was designed (or capitalized on) to accomplish just this. To confine those who would have in previous years been out-there activists, to their desks, laptops and iPhones.

Job done. The activists are now passivists, helpless observers of events in the world they increasingly and strongly dislike, but feel powerless to do anything about. It's a massive, under-reported problem, and this issue heart-rendingly reported by kirolak (and others here on this thread) is just one example.

[Pam]

This is quite powerful film that can really have a profound effect on anyone that thinks its acceptable to kill animals. It is very hard to watch.

I find it very traumatic and can't really type much else as it just upsets me so much when I think about the suffering & murders committed.

The images are burned into my mind and lead me to the conclusion that humans have no place on this earth.

0h_F1VhIJoM




pdf - The Monkey Wrench Gang, by Edward Abbey (http://www.pdf-archive.com/2014/06/30/the-monkey-wrench-gang-by-edwardabbey/the-monkey-wrench-gang-by-edwardabbey.pdf)

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/MonkeyWrenchGang_zpsqcravvy6.jpg


Thank you!! That's a real gift. :star:

The direct download link from that page is
http://pdf-archive.com/2014/06/30/the-monkey-wrench-gang-by-edwardabbey/the-monkey-wrench-gang-by-edwardabbey.pdf

As I mentioned above, reading this is enough to motivate anyone to take direct action. The relevance (besides it being a most wonderful, iconic book) is that not too long ago, people would have gone out (and did go out) to do stuff.

Now — people stay at home, write blogs, make YouTube videos, and post on forums. :facepalm:

I do sometimes believe the internet was designed (or capitalized on) to accomplish just this. To confine those who would have in previous years been out-there activists, to their desks, laptops and iPhones.

Job done. The activists are now passivists, helpless observers of events in the world they increasingly and strongly dislike, but feel powerless to do anything about. It's a massive, under-reported problem, and this issue heart-rendingly reported by kirolak (and others here on this thread) is just one example.


Thanks, Bill. I am going to read the book! I couldn't help but share the following, which I think paints a picture of the human condition. I went to Amazon to look at the details of the book. I read one of the reviews and can't help but share it here.


"The name Edward Abbey is a foul couple of words for some, and is followed by foul language off the tongue of the same people. But, it shouldn't...both for his great body writings and for his fierce appreciation for everything that makes the American West great. "The Monkey Wrench Gang" and its sequel "Hayduke Lives" are classic American Literature as well as important social commentary on who we are and what should matter to us as a society and a country. (This review is for both books so might be a bit longer than usual.)

Yes, Abbey was an environmentalist; but, a he was also flawed just as we all are in this area - when he was younger on his first visit to the Grand Canyon, he rolled a tire over the edge because he could. He already appreciated the American West, but the human side of him did it anyway. Yes, Abbey was a curmudgeon; but, it worked - he got the attention of everyone, on both sides of any issue."

[Agape]

That is the greatest mystery. Maybe we did have our DNA altered, maybe we are cursed. It seems as though we were placed here after the fact. One thing that seems apparent, we came with a gnawing emptiness that seems insatiable.

No , human being is not meant to be a 'predator' . No advanced intelligence in the Universe is predatory by nature for the simple fact they'd run out of resources sooner or later . Although , by ingesting or inter-breeding of 'alien species biological information' your own genomic make-up is altered , lowered in this case in favour of the animal predatory behaviour.
Humans were confined to here for millions of years till now , so were animals and man has learned from them to kill .
So sad if people can't stop doing it , are run by their biological instincts till now , lost the control of themselves .
I believe that many of the modern 'civilisation diseases' , autoimmune diseases like multiple sclerosis , diabetes and countless cases of neurological and organ failures, are partially and directly or not linked to human immune system confusing itself over 'alien information' it can not efficiently process : animal proteins in their variety and large amounts .
We're not talking of tiny 'in vitro' experiments here but of massive , generations lasting overfeeding of human by members of lower species .
Godbless.




I do sometimes believe the internet was designed (or capitalized on) to accomplish just this. To confine those who would have in previous years been out-there activists, to their desks, laptops and iPhones.

Job done. The activists are now passivists, helpless observers of events in the world they increasingly and strongly dislike, but feel powerless to do anything about. It's a massive, under-reported problem, and this issue heart-rendingly reported by kirolak (and others here on this thread) is just one example.


I've said the same thing , years ago .. : what the TV could not accomplish in numbing the masses to 'mass entertainment' and keeping everyone seated safe in their living rooms the internet has done without failure.

It now creates almost perfect illusion of everything , creativity, communication, accomplishment , credibility , relationships .
For most people it seems to offer 'a second life' , affordable option , and information of course - at no cost .

I was disenchanted with people 'on the net' years ago when I thought that internet is great tool made to connect people and ideas and do the right thing .
I was late with being new to it in 2006 and thought of it differently .. before I found it's millions of people who want to do nothing but 'hanging on the net' , evening after evening after evening . People getting their 'best information' from the net too to the extent they're not really interested in the 'real thing' anymore .

And it's turned worse and was only logical, not unexpected , what we've seen over the past few years , surge of paranoia affecting the social media sites , people playing games with people , the shadow necessarily followed .. the light . Bigger the light bigger the shadow.

Not to speak about a generation of youth whose eye sight will suffer after daily and constant many hours exposure to the bright screens .

People seem to be generally , better informed now, thanks to internet and wherever you go .. but , they're getting lethargic and do less for the real life .

Could be just another facet of the overall problem ..

it's not 'only animals' . It's humans to humans and the shocking ( to me ) fact how the so called 'developed civilisation' quickly unlearned to help each other ( if it can be payed ) , how no one wants to think on their own ( because someone else did it anyway ) and world that is losing time and lives because they cost so little nowadays .


Better to start running for lives till it's late :llama:

[raff]

Some of things you say just trigger my memories Peterpam. I'm reminded of a "dream" i had when I saw surrounding my bedside four deermen and behind them let's just say (i don't feel i should be specific) a divinity associated with Scandinavian lore. The deermen were humonoid but with a deers head. The feeling I had was not fear but I felt a certain power that i can't define as dark but definitely powerful. Days later when i researched who these deermen were I came across the story of the world tree Yggdrasil (not sure i spelt that correctly) and the 4 deer that eat at the branches of the tree. Part of the telling explains that at the roots of the tree lies a dragon that gnaws at the roots of the world tree. I instinctively felt that this was the source of hunger for all beings this insatiable need to feed. I never before felt that close to Scandinavian mythology at all but I certainly pay attention to it now after that dream several years ago. I go back to my initial remark that we as human beings are part of something that needs to be transformed and we are the processing plant of this cosmic karma. A karma that we didn't necessarily create.

[Pam]

This is quite powerful film that can really have a profound effect on anyone that thinks its acceptable to kill animals. It is very hard to watch.

I find it very traumatic and can't really type much else as it just upsets me so much when I think about the suffering & murders committed.

The images are burned into my mind and lead me to the conclusion that humans have no place on this earth.





0h_F1VhIJoM


The video is blocked on youtube from viewing without logging in. Here is a website with transcript, and the video is embedded, so I was able to watch it here:

http://bitesizevegan.com/ethics-and-morality/the-extremism-of-veganism-exposing-the-greatest-lie-speech/


I have a question for the vegans and animal activists. Many small family farmsteads are working in harmony with nature. Animals are an important part of the natural ecosystem, and can be integral to pest control and weed and pasture grazing when developing a permaculture system. Is the argument against eating all meat, even milk and eggs raised in a more natural environment? The video throws all non-vegans into the same group as commercial inhumane agriculture practices. If you are trying to end the inhumane ag practices, it would behove you to not throw every non-vegan under the bus, because you are loosing a lot of activists who would like to see cruel animal practices ended. If the purpose of the video is to advocate for veganism, the argument fails because there are many non-vegans that do not consume animals that are raped or tortured.




Your questions are thoughtful and valid. Joe. I can only speak for myself, but the fact that I don't eat animals or use their products to the best of my knowledge is a personal one. Of course, I would prefer that no one did, but what I hope is that we as humans, treat animals and all living things, which includes mother earth with the dignity and respect that is due them. They do not need to be looked at as strictly a means to an end. If they are raised for food, why can't they be raised in conditions that makes whatever life they have tolerable? Why can't they be raised under conditions of gratitude? I will never forget the way taking a life for food was depicted in the movie "Avatar". It brings tears to my eyes as I think of it. The life was taken with gratitude and respect. Only what was needed was taken.

I recently completed Master Gardener training and I came away with a much deeper respect and awe for dirt. Yes, good old dirt. It is most magnificent and if is teeming with a myriad of creatures. It is the blood of the planet. I am in awe of it. Once again, soil has been so disrespected and abused. It needs to be nurtured and sustained.

There will be those vegans that will totally disagree with me. They will not even consider a scenario of taking animal life that is acceptable. I think I am more of a realist. I do not believe mankind will evolve from where it is today to be vegans filled with gratitude tomorrow. Change will only occur when consciousness evolves and that usually happens in steps, it is a process. So today, I will be very content with gratitude and respect.

Just as Bill stated, it is the disconnect from all of this that allows us to look the other way. It takes guts to look at the truth, because then you have to do something or have that nagging reality that your life is a hypocrisy. I do wonder if there are those that just don't give a rip. As long as they are not being directly impacted they could care less.

Joe, I agree that taking a stance of moral superiority is not going to create any lasting change and in the end will be a detriment to the cause. I think sometimes what appears as moral superiority in vegans is the dogged dedication to the cause.Having said that, any time we let the unbridled ego take charge, in any circumstances the outcome will not be the best possible. Very few of us are exempt from the possibility of this happening and I am sure there are lots of examples of this in the area of animal rights and veganism.

[Matthew]

...
Thank you!! That's a real gift. :star:

The direct download link from that page is
http://pdf-archive.com/2014/06/30/the-monkey-wrench-gang-by-edwardabbey/the-monkey-wrench-gang-by-edwardabbey.pdf

...

I do sometimes believe the internet was designed (or capitalized on) to accomplish just this. To confine those who would have in previous years been out-there activists, to their desks, laptops and iPhones.

...


I've seen the internet mobilise people to legal direct action. Bill, if you were describing television I would totally agree but only partially agree that the internet promotes inactivity and helplessness. I first learnt the power of protest before I joined Avalon and this was exclusively through the internet.

The internet can be used well in conjunction with whatever protest rights you legally have and I bet it's used with all modern protests.

But on the other side of the OP I also feel there's too much isolation between how we get food and how it's produced. Strangely the more I feel we're not alone in the universe the more I feel like we need to be more respectful to so called 'lesser species'. The way we treat captured primates for example seems similar to the experience of abductees. So if I don't like behaviour like that on humans why would I think it's ok for other life forms?

[DNA]

As a kid in the states, we were force fed "the rainforests are dying" and "all the animals are going extinct" since I was a little kid. Seriously I remember having serious discussians about it with friends as a 3rd grade kid. All the while this constant guilt that my very presence, the fact that I was born is contributing to all of this destruction/death/extinction.
This guilt stuck with me all of my life until I was about 25. I DECIDED to stop feeling guilty. I DECIDED that it wasn't little kids this message needed to be spread to, it was the conference rooms of big corporations that needed to see this.

I do not feel guilty any more. :no::no:
In my honest opinion, we are the latest asteroid to strike this planet and cause a mass die off.
The animals have had their time, and they will have their time again.
It is only a small blip in the geologic sense that humans are here causing so much death and destruction.

And we all KNOW that our reign is coming to an end, very very soon.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUGB0SKkKVw

[Bill Ryan]

The images are burned into my mind and lead me to the conclusion that humans have no place on this earth.



See this thread:
THE ULTIMATE PLAN (a fairy story... maybe) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?76226-THE-ULTIMATE-PLAN--a-fairy-story...-maybe-)

In that, a step onward from my earlier thread From Bill Ryan -- the Ultimate Hypothesis (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?46887-From-Bill-Ryan-the-Ultimate-Hypothesis), I speculate that one possibility behind the breakaway civilization and the secret space program is that there might be an ET-supported plan to remove humanity from Planet Earth and preserve it as the galactic equivalent of a national park. I didn't mean it as a joke.




The way we treat captured primates for example seems similar to the experience of abductees.

Do also see this!
A metaphor about abduction (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?60819-A-metaphor-about-abduction)

[Limor Wolf]

Hello Bill and all, Much caution and discernment is required now with regards to going on ships that are coming to "save" us. please do not succumb to give your permission and agreement to that. Please check Joseph Farrel's work for the greater picture and understanding of who and who's behind the secret space program to all it's human and non human facets.

Many blessings ~

Limor

[Bill Ryan]

Hello Bill and all, Much caution and discernment is required now with regards to going on ships that are coming to "save" us.

Agreed. That's not the fairy story. No-one's likely to come to save you and me, and if they do, run the other way! :)

The notion in my thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?76226-THE-ULTIMATE-PLAN--a-fairy-story...-maybe-) was that the elite would be 'saved' (or ET-supported in saving themselves) while the rest of us would die out, die off, or be in some other way eliminated, or eliminate ourselves.

It'd be a horror story for humanity. But a fairy story, maybe, for the rest of the lifeforms on the planet, NONE of whom we benefit in any way at all.

:focus:

[Eric J (Viking)]

Hello Bill and all, Much caution and discernment is required now with regards to going on ships that are coming to "save" us. please do not succumb to give your permission and agreement to that. Please check Joseph Farrel's work for the greater picture and understanding of who and who's behind the secret space program to all it's human and non human facets.

Many blessings ~

Limor

I wouldn't jump on any ship before asking if they are for the benefit of mankind. If not you can ask them to leave your space. This is a universal law.

If the Earth Planet decides to flip...what would you do...would you stay or trust Mr ET and jump aboard...just some thoughts.

Viking

[Pam]

[QUOTE]Imagine that above ALL of those, there was one individual, the capstone of the pyramid. The Godfather, as it were.

Imagine that this individual considers himself (and is considered to be) 'Royal'.

Imagine that somehow he does not age... or is maybe simply many, many hundreds of years old. He is 'always there'. His name is only known by those in his immediate circle.

Imagine that he is felt to be 'untouchable'. No 'coup' would ever be considered.

Imagine that he observes all in his domain with tolerance and dispassion. He has seen it all. He does not attend the rituals, the 'costume parties', the practices that we would call barbaric, evil and satanic.

Imagine that he just lets that all happen. He lets it all roll. Imagine that he is the ultimate Darwinian theorist: meaning, that if things evolve in a certain way, then it's all natural and 'good'. But of course, the very act of human decision-making is also part of that natural process.

Imagine that this individual is convinced that God does not exist. Otherwise, He would have intervened. Therefore, this man must play God. He considers it his Duty.

Imagine that this individual does not like what he sees. He does not like the destruction of this beautiful planet. He despises the small stupidity of so many humans. He does not endorse the large-scale, destructive, power-grabbing selfishness of those below him in the power structure.

Imagine he is a genuine lover of art, music, nature, philosophy, literature. Imagine he is a man of vision... in his own terms, by his own definition.

Imagine that he has decided he is going to save the planet.

And imagine that is why the ruling elite are planning to EVACUATE the planet.

Imagine that it's been broadly decided, or agreed, or accepted, among the many races of ETs looking on, that Planet Earth should be — and the term sounds trite — a kind of GALACTIC PLANETARY WILDLIFE PARK. A huge nature reserve. For the benefit of all. That the Earth should be allowed to lie fallow, to regenerate, to heal, to recover... which it would, in maybe less than a few hundred years, without the destructive influence of Man.

Imagine that the problem is the 'parasitic infestation' of the rest of the human race.

Imagine that a decision has been made to rid the Earth of this parasite... using the kind of weapons we would use to rid a house of termites, or black mold. (What would we do? We would 'treat the house'... and would leave it for a while until it was EITHER safe to return.... OR we would SELL the house, now in good condition again.)

OR, if it was a beautiful old house, of great historical and cultural interest, with a very beautiful centuries-old garden, maybe the wealthy owners, having fumigated it and restored it to its original condition, would donate it to the nation.

Maybe no-one would live in it at all.



Bill, this quote from your "The Ultimate Plan" gives me the shivers. I know this will not be popular to say it but I can understand how this could happen. I can empathize with those who would see our lack of respect and shortsightedness and would have to come to the conclusion you have described. At the same time, it would sadden me to see the destruction of my species, particularly when I think about the children.

What do you do with a house guest, that loots and destroys your beautiful home while killing and injuring the other guests at what should have been the most wonderful of parties but has turned into an unceasing nightmare ?

[gripreaper]

Hello Bill and all, Much caution and discernment is required now with regards to going on ships that are coming to "save" us. please do not succumb to give your permission and agreement to that. Please check Joseph Farrel's work for the greater picture and understanding of who and who's behind the secret space program to all it's human and non human facets.

Many blessings ~

Limor

I don't know, after this winter, I'm wondering if it would not be a good idea to get off this planet cause I think they're trying to kill me. The virus released this winter, and the chemtrail mixture were much more virulent and it quite frankly almost took me out. I've noticed extreme upper respiratory illness this winter, and of course we hear of famous people succumbing to it, but I think there were a lot more who succumbed who never made the news.

This lends credence to the scenario, one of the five which I outlined in post #12 here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?76226-THE-ULTIMATE-PLAN--a-fairy-story...-maybe-) in Bill's thread, where the planet is being terraformed for a new hybrid species, one which is already developed, which is designed to be more conducive to a more toxic radiant atmosphere. This atmosphere is being engineered so that those who have been underground for thousands of years can come forward into the light and live on the surface and, due to their reptilian nature, currently cannot breathe the air, but once terraformed, they will be able to.

Besides, all of us current humans are being bred for the ultimate human sacrifice to the astral gods who are directing this transformation, as these energy beings stuck in the astral need our energy to vampire in order to sustain them and they get aroused by it. No longer is 50 million in a war, or 100 million by the spanish flu enough to satiate their vampiristic needs, and they are calling for the ultimate sacrifice of 10 billion all at once to see how it feels. We should reach that population within the next decade, and just about the time that the earth will be terraformed and ready for the reptilians to emerge.

So, maybe we could weaponize ourselves and take over any benevolent spacecraft which come to rescue and save us, and we could then over take another planet, enslave the indigenous peoples, get them to mine gold for us, build a hedonistic playground for us, and then once they have completed this task, destroy them. We could probably get them to do this without them even knowing, all the while thinking they are free and that everything is awesome and that they have saviors to rescue them if anything goes wrong.

That's what I recommend. :)

[Eric J (Viking)]

Hello Bill and all, Much caution and discernment is required now with regards to going on ships that are coming to "save" us.

Agreed. That's not the fairy story. No-one's likely to come to save you and me, and if they do, run the other way! :)

The notion in my thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?76226-THE-ULTIMATE-PLAN--a-fairy-story...-maybe-) was that the elite would be 'saved' (or ET-supported in saving themselves) while the rest of us would die out, die off, or be in some other way eliminated, or eliminate ourselves.

It'd be a horror story for humanity. But a fairy story, maybe, for the rest of the lifeforms on the planet, NONE of whom we benefit in any way at all.

:focus:

Just a thought Bill...why should I run away with all that's going on here on planet Earth. Chemtrails...Starvation. .wars.. bloody mindless greedy capitalism... ect ect...where's it all going I ask myself?.. can it get any worse...probably...and will. Runaway...? ET to land...please...Chance would be fine....bring it on.

Viking

[Verdilac]

Well instead of all of the pointless wars that misinformed people fight for profit, power & greed, Just imagine what we could actually achieve if we were all switched on enough to use our intellect to fight for the earth & all of its creatures.
As I'm quite sure that's why a lot of us may really be here, it may be an uncomfortable realisation but it actually may start with this & end with this. Can you honestly think of anything more important or pressing.

And oh in response to the ET's coming to save anyone .If there is anyone in ships dropping by & asking if you want to go with them, what you should be asking them is. Why aren't they making a stand with us. As we know in our hearts the answers are in our hands if only we would accept them. That may sound like an empty ideological statement, but that's what I genuinely think and seriously doubt I'm alone .

The 1st issue to be addressed is stop seeing other living things as food and thinking you have the rite to kill them. If that all seems like a giant step away form your current position. Then a good starting point would begin with spiders ,flys & other small insects. Take a moment out of your busy day to look at them when they creep of fly into your space and you may come to realise that they may actually be curious about you. A Human ,that massive moving thing with 4 limbs & 2 eyes that smells wonderful or not so wonderful. Would many of us not have such an interest in a giant if we had the chance to observe one. You may think this is off topic but from this basic understanding and respect for all life an idea can flourish & give a greater understanding of everything.

I've heard a lot of people say that direct action is dead but that doesn't seem to be so. Sure the direct action people take is different these days. One of the best forms of direct action in my humble opinion may be to vote with your feet or to coin a much used phrase " be the change to want to see in the world" as languishing incarcerated in a prison from some knee jerk physical direct action you haven't thought through may not be using you body & mind to the best of its abilities.

[gripreaper]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CfIVXXJW4AA2kKk.jpg

[Agape]

I offer to sort it out for you :)

We are all anthropoids basically . From the tiny one cellular organism to the advanced forms of life you have all one head and four or five little flagelle.

There's the 'cell' , 'the padded cell' of your central nervous system and limbs that reach out to the physical environment . Now you're lucky to be out of water , supporting yourself on two of your tiny legs , floating like bubble in the midair .

Like crystals, you crystallise to various patterns of life forms , one more beautiful and complicated than the other
we are not here to compete ..

life exists, the web of life pervades the Universe like silver lining on huge cake covered with lots of ice cream :cake:

Life is the sublimation of information and energy , that's how it's also rare..


The iconic movie The Earth Stood Still tries to convey similar message ..


an4uQJSo6Eg



:angel:

[Agape]

Hello Bill and all, Much caution and discernment is required now with regards to going on ships that are coming to "save" us.

Agreed. That's not the fairy story. No-one's likely to come to save you and me, and if they do, run the other way! :)

The notion in my thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?76226-THE-ULTIMATE-PLAN--a-fairy-story...-maybe-) was that the elite would be 'saved' (or ET-supported in saving themselves) while the rest of us would die out, die off, or be in some other way eliminated, or eliminate ourselves.

It'd be a horror story for humanity. But a fairy story, maybe, for the rest of the lifeforms on the planet, NONE of whom we benefit in any way at all.

:focus:


The 'elite' have built themselves the safest nuclear bunkers from what we've seen so far, they're well fed , well clad and doubt they so want to go anywhere at all.


I have none of those people on my waiting list unless they dressed up for beggars ..



:bigsmile:

[Akasha]

Dear Kirolak, it's so encouraging to see this thread, and the positive and heartfelt response it's generated, particularly when I'd all but given up bashing my head against the Avalon wall in the All things Vegan (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83021-All-Things-Vegan-) thread, so thank you! :clapping:

As I see it, going plant-based is simply golden rule 101 in action and I still feel that our collective transition to this lifestyle will show itself to be the most significant factor in our survival on this planet......not to mention one step closer to some semblance of a tangible utopia.

Idealistic? Of course, but I'm determined to dream big on this one.

[Agape]

Hello Bill and all, Much caution and discernment is required now with regards to going on ships that are coming to "save" us. please do not succumb to give your permission and agreement to that. Please check Joseph Farrel's work for the greater picture and understanding of who and who's behind the secret space program to all it's human and non human facets.

Many blessings ~

Limor


I don't know what to tell people anymore ? :blushing: Sorry. Just to say hello.



They will come . But we don't know when . That's all we know. 'They' say the time is irrelevant . It will be when we are ready .

xwtdhWltSIg


Love is the only religion

:victory:

[Bill Ryan]

.
:focus: — please. :bearhug:

[DNA]

Hello Bill and all, Much caution and discernment is required now with regards to going on ships that are coming to "save" us. please do not succumb to give your permission and agreement to that. Please check Joseph Farrel's work for the greater picture and understanding of who and who's behind the secret space program to all it's human and non human facets.

Many blessings ~

Limor

I don't know, after this winter, I'm wondering if it would not be a good idea to get off this planet cause I think they're trying to kill me. The virus released this winter, and the chemtrail mixture were much more virulent and it quite frankly almost took me out. I've noticed extreme upper respiratory illness this winter, and of course we hear of famous people succumbing to it, but I think there were a lot more who succumbed who never made the news.

This lends credence to the scenario, one of the five which I outlined in post #12 here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?76226-THE-ULTIMATE-PLAN--a-fairy-story...-maybe-) in Bill's thread, where the planet is being terraformed for a new hybrid species, one which is already developed, which is designed to be more conducive to a more toxic radiant atmosphere. This atmosphere is being engineered so that those who have been underground for thousands of years can come forward into the light and live on the surface and, due to their reptilian nature, currently cannot breathe the air, but once terraformed, they will be able to.

Besides, all of us current humans are being bred for the ultimate human sacrifice to the astral gods who are directing this transformation, as these energy beings stuck in the astral need our energy to vampire in order to sustain them and they get aroused by it. No longer is 50 million in a war, or 100 million by the spanish flu enough to satiate their vampiristic needs, and they are calling for the ultimate sacrifice of 10 billion all at once to see how it feels. We should reach that population within the next decade, and just about the time that the earth will be terraformed and ready for the reptilians to emerge.

So, maybe we could weaponize ourselves and take over any benevolent spacecraft which come to rescue and save us, and we could then over take another planet, enslave the indigenous peoples, get them to mine gold for us, build a hedonistic playground for us, and then once they have completed this task, destroy them. We could probably get them to do this without them even knowing, all the while thinking they are free and that everything is awesome and that they have saviors to rescue them if anything goes wrong.

That's what I recommend. :)


Alex Grey's "Demons and Deities drinking from the Milky Pool".


http://www.deitiesanddemons.info/Images/DD_small.jpg

[raff]

Steady on old chap, ease up on the doom and gloom. I've recently enjoyed the joint interview by Rob Potter of Cobra (2012blogspot.com) and Corey Goode of David Willcock fame. They both have apparently their own sources of intel and they have both corroborated that the cabal hierarchy are leaving via south America and the antarctic bases for what reason I'm not sure. Now sources of information like these you can take with a pinch of salt but it still cheered me up no end thinking that the fleas are leaving the dog and the dog may now recover. The EVENT is always spoken of as the liberation of humankind and i do believe it's possible. There is i believe a great network of many and varied benevolent forces that have been protecting us here and I really think it's possible that the page in this dark chapter is going to dramatically change in humanities and natures favour. I know that this has been a long, very long time coming but hey every story has got to have a silver lining. Humanity might be a bit like star wars Ja Ja Binks but the dark side will always have it's time and will always be overthrown by the light. All myths and stories of the past tell of this. This is our time and i shall not fall into despair but rather stand up and be part of the salvation of all sentient life here (however small my participation might be) Nature depends on us to stay united. Because when we are united with one true heart there isn't anyone who can stop us. Chemtrails? False religions? terrorism? wars and conflicts for thousands of years? poison pharma medicines? e-coli faeces in the coca cola? Mc D's and Monsanto Frankenstein monster foods? These buggers have tried to destroy us but we keep coming back. And we ain't budging. :p





Mod edit from Bill: strong sentiments, but this post is enormously off-topic. (Several others are, too, probably including one of my own!)

Anyone who's about to add to the thread, please see the original post (#1). It's about the unthinking, gross, violent abuse of the animal kingdom (and other life forms as well) — not only by the elite, but by you and me.

Here's a challenging question to get things back on track. If the elite were to leave the planet, would you suddenly stop eating cruelly killed fish, chicken and meat and wearing factory-farmed leather shoes? (Food for thought... as it were.)

:focus:

[raff]

Apologies Bill for going off the reservation. As I've just been reliably informed of the questionable nature of Corey Goode's Intel and to answer your question and back on topic absolutely and indefatigably no. I do believe whether by hook or by crook that the human habit of eating flesh will change to something benevolent, conscience and a health affirming existance. If life is a process of change then it seems only natural that the vegan way will hold sway. After that who's to say but if it's true what several sources are saying concerning the elevation or opening of consciousness then this seems an inevitability. But for myself it couldn't come sooner. Thank you.

[Akasha]

....If the purpose of the video is to advocate for veganism, the argument fails because there are many non-vegans that do not consume animals that are raped or tortured.....

99.999999999% of animals raised for meat, secretions etc… will undergo a brutal death in an abattoir long before nature would have intended. That may not constitute torture in your eyes but it does in mine.

We need to collectively get past this misconception that it's OK as long as they were treated well whilst alive, particularly when their lives are cut so short by such brutal means......and...... even if they were compassionately euthanized, it would still be gross violation, and for what? So we can die earlier from, well, take your pick from any number of the leading causes of death in modern society.

It is categorically impossible to consume animal products, even ethically reared ones, without bringing exploitation and violence into the equation.

When it comes to diet, veganism is the moral baseline. There's no getting around it.

Put yourself in their shoes. As I mentioned in my earlier post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90628-ARE-YOU-SPECIAL-or-are-you-ENTITLED--The-Extremism-Of-Veganism-Exposing-The-Greatest-Lie-&p=1068337&viewfull=1#post1068337) - golden rule 101.

[Pam]

The fact is that we live on a planet where the day to day survival of many species requires that they seek out prey to survive. Also, a predator could turn to prey at any time. I always found that hard to deal with. Even, the meekest of animals like rabbits indirectly eat tiny bugs and microbes on their grassy foods.

I am aware that by mowing my lawn, I am probably slaughtering millions of tiny insects, and mowing my lawn is not something I have to do. I also can say that my yard doesn't look nearly as pristine as others in the area because I don't use herbicides or pesticides. I try to make it a safe place for all critters, but even as I write this there is that nagging thought of the lawn mowing.. none of us are exempt from killing other creatures at one level or another. I don't think it is possible. Did I ever make a conscious decision that it is worth the death of thousands of tiny critters so that I could have grass a certain length, one that is acceptable to my neighbors? No, I have avoided the issue until now.

There are a million small decisions we get to make in our lives that are going to benefit or hurt others. Sometimes, the decisions are not easy. So, I have to ask myself, is my stand not to eat or wear animal products anything if I am willing to harm tiny forms of life for something as vain as the aesthetics of my yard.

We humans were given the abilities to be guardians of the planet. The question is, how do we become the best guardians, considering the natural order of things here, the predator-prey interactions that seem to be necessary for the food chain to continue?

[raff]

Sorry a bit off topic again but you write beautifully Peterpam and a great calmness and compassion fills your words and everything you've said I could not agree more. I like the books written by Robert Shapiro on the Shamanic series and even though they speak of eating animals it was always done with respect and permission. The books talk about sacred living with the American Indians and how they would pray beforehand and ask that if anyone would offer themselves to be eaten then they would receive that which they observed to be a genuine contribution (always it would be the older members of the herd never the young or their parents) Same with the fishes it would never be indiscriminate and it would always be on the trail (where animals would generally keep off of) or on specific areas away from their breeding grounds. Also when this sacred/consensuaI way was done the beings whether mammal, bird or fish would impart some of their wisdom to those that consumed them. The author speaks of this as how this was originally set up when this form of consuming began here on earth (although the actual reason for this way was not explained.)Also when they would pick berries from a bush they would never strip it clean but would always leave enough for others animals like the bears to feed off of. There was a kindness and cooperation of sorts within their limited resources. I know that we could never return to that but I do feel that humanity will find it's heart and from there who knows what could happen.

[Peace of Mind]

This planet went through many changes, many catastrophes. The planet seems to have lost a lot of its vegetation and it should be noted that the sea looks almost barren/desolate for it's vastness. Something big happened here a long long time ago.

I’ve heard a cool story about how the planet was rich in fruits that fed all life on this planet. Unfortunate happens occurred that put much of life into submission. However, as man’s time and chaos continued to stripped the world of its life /foliage (as often seen today by man) …many of the species died or had to result to cannibalism and flesh eating. Some of the animals today (like certain monkeys) are now becoming meat eaters due to the changes in their environments…which is caused by the spreading of mankind.

I believe the lack of nutrition has forced this sought of evolution upon the planet. You can see lion’s, and bears being friendly with man and other animals…until they get hungry. How is that natural? Hmmm…something happened here and hardly anyone’s examining that.

I’m not even going to go into how science has proven to create life/species…. perhaps some species were made to feed on life. I don’t see that idea getting tossed around anywhere. But I'll save that for the "Greek Mythology" threads.

I can’t say enough about the benefits of a meatless diet; I just know that we were never really meant to be flesh eaters. Our teeth/body subtly prove that we can and have lived without eating flesh. I’ve been living on a diet of fruits, grains, beans, nuts, seeds and water for a very very long time. I havn't been sick in almost 20 years, I sleep 3 to 4 hours a night and stay energize as if I slept for 12 hours. I’m not skinny, but athletic enough to play basketball and lift weights, almost daily. Speaking for myself…. I’m glad that I do not need to rob another animal of their life experience…hardly seems fair when it's only for the purpose of living on a temporary plane. How do I acknowledge/justify that species sacrifice...to that species family?

In life…I deeply feel that we are being tested in so many ways, we are given the free choice to choose how we want to spend our fleeting moment here and after here.

Whatever the outcome…I have full confidence that I’ll be totally prepared for whatever the inevitable has to show me…in my brief moment in time.

Peace

[Akasha]

.....I have also wondered, "how many strict vegans are so connected with earth and nature that they grow their own food?" Living life connected with nature, one will see that death is a very natural part of this physical world. One could say that the leading cause of death is...life. What would happen in a vegan utopia, when a deer, raccoon, or rabbit wipes out the life sustaining crops we have worked to produce? Do we accept our own death at the hands of our vegan competitors? What about the potato beetles that will wipe out an entire crop of winter sustenance, are they allowed to live? All these questions make we wonder how the most dogmatic vegans exist in this physical world...

I would like very much to live life as a breatharian, or a sungazer... able to directly obtain life giving energy directly from the source. Maybe becoming vegan is a stepping stone to that way of life, but until someone can show me the path through their own experience and not just words on a page, then I will remain skeptically alive in this world until I transition from physical to spirit.

Good points, although taking measures to prevent wild animals from eating crops and perpetuating the ongoing animal holocaust are worlds apart, wouldn't you agree?

As I see it, veganism is the most succinct way to do what we can, now, in this regard, rather than intellectualizing the subject to the extent that the status quo remains.

[Akasha]

Good points, although taking measures to prevent wild animals from eating crops and perpetuating the ongoing animal holocaust are worlds apart, wouldn't you agree?

Yes, I agree.


As I see it, veganism is the most succinct way to do what we can, now, in this regard, rather than intellectualizing the subject to the extent that the status quo remains.

Having a deep abiding respect for all nature, including the plants and plant products we eat, is the approach I would take. I have found this kind of respect and gratitude most directly through growing and raising my own food. It is a labor that gives me appreciation for all life. However, what do I do when the plum curculio worm eats my fruit? I become a very compassionate but ruthless killer. It is part of my nature.

"Raising my own food" sounds a little euphemistic to me. Caring for animals I will ultimately kill and eat would be more honest, no?.....

.....and having a "deep and abiding respect for nature" should extend to recognizing that nature is not yours to own, even if you did technically pay dollar for the animals concerned, right?

I'd say you "become a compassionate and ruthless killer" long before you have to deal with the worms.

[Akasha]

..... I become a very compassionate but ruthless killer. It is part of my nature.

compassionate |kəmˈpa sh ənət|
adjective
feeling or showing sympathy and concern for others

ruthless |ˈroōθləs|
adjective
having or showing no pity or compassion for others

[Agape]

It's nature , part of human nature as well , some of your human ancestors would have never survived the ice ages and other extreme climatic periods without eating animals .
Some here forget a thing about me .. but I lived in India since 23 years ago , on and off , in pure vegetarian environment .
It matters to me a lot so does compassion to all living beings . It does not mean that all Indians are vegetarians but it's been part of their gnostic heritage for thousands of years and people there , regardless their education are far more conscious of ethical and philosophical questions and 'big picture questions' in general than average schooled European tends to be, to this day .
In Dharamsala which is high in the mountains so local people still traditionally feed of goats and chicken ( can't recall else ) while cow is of course considered sacred and treated as family 'mother' and 'deity' like mostly everywhere in India ,

if my gaddi ( shepherd ) friends have a yearly puja where goat is being sacrificed and cooked for lunch , they tell me not to come, there's much respect towards anyone practising non-violence , traditionally .
So I go around and pray for the goat and roll eyes :)

But that's life . The nature eats us on some occasions as we eat nature . It's curious to me how so many vegetarians devour their bacterial colonies in form of 'probiotics' and whether that's kosher to them .

With all that and light sense of humour , we have to feel compassion for people who eat meat as well if it's all they can do.
Some peoples 'genetic make up' won't allow them to strive on vegetables without getting seriously ill and many of your elderly or young and sick people would not survive without artificial proteins or animal proteins .

That's not a myth . It's a fact you'd have to face as family member or a physician or even a friend , sacrificing peoples lives IF they can't do 'on veggies' .

There's no clear-cut absolute answer . If there was we would be probably living in paradise already.

I'm of course , against killing of anything alive possible , including plugging wild flowers , cutting down trees ( especially ) , or even unnecessarily killing an insect . Even that tiny creature is looking to Sun .. with wish to live .

But when it happens and because we have to live to , and can't do yet in this human body without eating and being eaten , try to minimise your acts of violence but please .. avoid the blame game .

Universally ethically speaking also ... touching someones 'food' ( whatever it may be ) is not acceptable .



:heart:

[Pam]

Sorry a bit off topic again but you write beautifully Peterpam and a great calmness and compassion fills your words and everything you've said I could not agree more. I like the books written by Robert Shapiro on the Shamanic series and even though they speak of eating animals it was always done with respect and permission. The books talk about sacred living with the American Indians and how they would pray beforehand and ask that if anyone would offer themselves to be eaten then they would receive that which they observed to be a genuine contribution (always it would be the older members of the herd never the young or their parents) Same with the fishes it would never be indiscriminate and it would always be on the trail (where animals would generally keep off of) or on specific areas away from their breeding grounds. Also when this sacred/consensuaI way was done the beings whether mammal, bird or fish would impart some of their wisdom to those that consumed them. The author speaks of this as how this was originally set up when this form of consuming began here on earth (although the actual reason for this way was not explained.)Also when they would pick berries from a bush they would never strip it clean but would always leave enough for others animals like the bears to feed off of. There was a kindness and cooperation of sorts within their limited resources. I know that we could never return to that but I do feel that humanity will find it's heart and from there who knows what could happen.



Raff, thank you for your kind comments. I wonder if it would be possible to return to that state of gratitude that you described. that sort of deeper connection to the food we eat? I know it might sound odd but I thank each plant in my garden when I take leaves or harvest a vegetable. I am careful to return that which was inedible back to my compost pile so that the process of creation can continue. We may not be able to live in the exact way that you beautifully described but we can always have gratitude, even for a bag of salad bought in the grocery store. In my life ,fostering gratitude has been the most transformative state of consciousness.

I am going to look into the writings of Robert Shapiro. This thread has introduced me to a couple of interesting authors.

[Hip Hipnotist]

This seems like an appropriate topic/thread to add some of my 'professional' experience/opinions.

As a hypnotherapist, mostly retired now the two most 'popular' challenges I helped clients to overcome were smoking cessation and weight control. This thread does not concern smoking cessation but it is directly related to weight control. Almost without fail, at least 95 percent of weight control clients who consumed meat, when in regression, and asked the question, "What is it about meat ( this includes all forms of meat ) that you love and that satisfies you the most?" The one word answer that at least 95 percent of those weight control clients responded with was -- but before I give the answer I'll bet most of you, if not all of you already know the answer, especially those that do consume meat. It wasn't for 'health'. It wasn't for 'protein'. It wasn't for 'energy'. And it wasn't for the 'environment'. It was, in fact, for...

TASTE.

Yes, purely for taste.

Regardless of the ill health effects they suffered, which is why they came to see me, the foremost desire for consuming meat was, and still is -- TASTE. Yes, there were usually more underlying, deeply rooted subconscious reasons for over eating but as far as meat was concerned it was TASTE. Of course this could be said for a plethora of foods that do nothing but poison but we're talking about consuming animal flesh.

TASTE.

And I must admit that when I consumed animal flesh I would have given the same reason -- TASTE. At first I ceased consuming flesh because of health reasons, not a regard for another living creature's well-being. However, soon after, when the brain fog dissipated and I was able to comprehend the consequences of my actions both spiritually and karmically I became much more 'in tune' and a better human being. No small accomplishment.

For those weight control clients, those 95 percent that ate meat purely for its taste I did incorporate 'suggestions' for eating healthier foods that 'taste' just as good if not better -- much better and that would no doubt lead to a slimmer, healthier way of life. Many of those ( former ) clients thank me to this day. And so do the animals. Don't ask me how I know. I just do. ;-)

[Akasha]

dogmatic |dȯg-ˈma-tik|
adjective
expressing personal opinions or beliefs as if they are certainly correct and cannot be doubted

Guilty as charged but the ongoing animal holocaust is not an opinion or a belief but rather a horrific reality. We can try and dress it up or we can recognize it for what it is and personally choose to have no more part in it.

[Agape]

Hip Hypnotist , that's very valuable observation of yours about TASTE ..

but in fact in most human adults tastes are habitual, acquired and tight to the same dopamine-serotonin release cycle that is known to cause other forms of addictions
including drug and alcohol abuse.
So is the taste and addiction to sugar or salt for example .

Now how many young kids like to chew or taste 'meat' ?

How many kids really like over salted or over sweetened food items ?

The tragedy of our 'adult' populace is that most are so plastered with all kinds of impressions they lost the 'pure taste' of anything .


Children food is easy . I can clearly survive on fruit purees and baby biscuits if necessary and don't have to run around a lot and can imagine almost everyone can .
One travelling yogi whom i met, old sadhu who said he suffered chronic pancreatic dysfunction ate nothing but potatoes and some bread , for 20 years of his life.

While I've read some laughable to-be-scientific critiques of the recent Martian movie that alleged long term survival on 'only potato ' diet would cause you soon degeneration and death,
i had to chuckle little bit .

Same with old people, most prefer simple diets . Even many of the european old generation people lived the last 20 years of life on almost no meat, little veggies and milk and bread .
And they lived long and healthier than todays generation suffering many coronary and internal diseases not to quote the rest , but they 'ate well' for most of their lives.



Sorry :raining:

[kirolak]

dogmatic |dȯg-ˈma-tik|
adjective
expressing personal opinions or beliefs as if they are certainly correct and cannot be doubted

Guilty as charged but the ongoing animal holocaust is not an opinion or a belief but rather a horrific reality. We can try and dress it up or we can recognize it for what it is and personally choose to have no more part in it.

Well said. . . it is not a matter in which to exercise the much vaunted "personal choice", any more than it is acceptable to exercise the personal choice to murder humans, rape, or wantonly destroy the environment. It's impinging on the rights of other beings, & can not be tolerated in a sane society. And to those who feel it's OK to eat flesh "occasionally", is it also OK to murder humans occasionally, & still be a "good person"? There are laws against human murder & rape, but no laws to protect animals, who are also citizens of the planet, from the same acts of violence & humiliation.

[Akasha]

Cowspiracy (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3302820/) is up on YouTube again, at least for now. It's highly entertaining as well as highly informative with regards to the global ecological impact of animal agriculture as well as being extremely poignant with regards to many of the points Emily makes in her presentation in the OP. I've posted it here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?82470-Cowspiracy-the-sustainability-secret--2014-&p=1068639&viewfull=1#post1068639) on the Cowspiracy thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?82470-Cowspiracy-the-sustainability-secret--2014-). Watch it before it gets taken down again, assuming you don't want to pay and watch it on Netflix.

[Ewan]

Please watch this powerful presentation - are you REALLY awake? Or maybe sleepwalking though the APPARENT awakening?? Do you have the guts to watch this??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUTgZ7s_hiw#

I can't watch this as I don't have a Youtube account. I've searched, superficially perhaps, for alternate locations without success.

Anyone know a bypass for the age-restricted content on Youtube or an alternate location?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUTgZ7s_hiw#

Well stupid me, of course that works... but now, oddly, I cannot download it. :/

[Akasha]

....
Anyone know a bypass for the age-restricted content on Youtube or an alternate location?....

Try the instructions on the following page:

http://www.wikihow.com/Bypass-Age-Restrictions-on-YouTube-Videos

[Heyoka_11]

G'day Kirolak,

Thank you for having posted Emily's presentation, which, at times, was rather confronting (watched it yesterday).

Whilst I may have not learned anything new, on occasion we receive a "wake up" slap in the face at just the right time, and perhaps for me the time was right, as I am still smarting from the slap. Hoping that accepted practice may be different here in Australia, I delved into the net, but alas, nope: nothing different down here.

I have bookmarked the Vegan Forum, and with the weekly shop tomorrow, I'll begin to introduce new recipes which do not involve animal cruelty. That's the real change which you are hoping for, one person at a time.

Take heart, as you are leading by example, and that most others will not follow is a sad reality, but a reality nonetheless.

It sounds to me that you are doing the very best that you can, and you should be congratulated.

Thanks again,

Tony.

[RunningDeer]

Please watch this powerful presentation - are you REALLY awake? Or maybe sleepwalking though the APPARENT awakening?? Do you have the guts to watch this??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUTgZ7s_hiw#

I can't watch this as I don't have a Youtube account. I've searched, superficially perhaps, for alternate locations without success.

Anyone know a bypass for the age-restricted content on Youtube or an alternate location?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUTgZ7s_hiw#

Well stupid me, of course that works... but now, oddly, I cannot download it. :/
It works for me. http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Recovered/clap_zpspp7oeh2v.GIF
FYI: Along with the video, the transcript (http://bitesizevegan.com/ethics-and-morality/the-extremism-of-veganism-exposing-the-greatest-lie-speech/) for Emily Moran Barwick’s speech is on her site.

[Verdilac]

I have be quietly thinking what I'm about to say for a while.

Its just a though, so here goes.

Does anyone else think that huge amount of hormones that murdered animals endocrine systems release at the time of there butchery is partially to blame for the sorry state of human behaviour by those that ingest these butchered animals.

Just thought I would put it out there as it seems on topic and I keep on coming back to this thought and have heard no mention of it anywhere.

Thank you

[Hip Hipnotist]

I have be quietly thinking what I'm about to say for a while.

Its just a though, so here goes.

Does anyone else think that huge amount of hormones that murdered animals endocrine systems release at the time of there butchery is partially to blame for the sorry state of human behaviour by those that ingest these butchered animals.

Just thought I would put it out there as it seems on topic and I keep on coming back to this thought and have heard no mention of it anywhere.

Thank you

How's this for a one word, no explanation needed answer...

YES.

[Pam]

I have be quietly thinking what I'm about to say for a while.

Its just a though, so here goes.

Does anyone else think that huge amount of hormones that murdered animals endocrine systems release at the time of there butchery is partially to blame for the sorry state of human behaviour by those that ingest these butchered animals.

Just thought I would put it out there as it seems on topic and I keep on coming back to this thought and have heard no mention of it anywhere.

Thank you

How's this for a one word, no explanation needed answer...

YES.


I agree also. I believe it happens at the chemical level and at the vibrational level. Think about it, for years the only insulin available was from an animal. That hormone placed in the human body most definitely had an effect on insulin levels. Why wouldn't that last blast of fear hormones do anything less. Now add the antibiotics used to subdue disease from overcrowded, horrific, hell like conditions and maybe a little red goo to make it all look fresh and god only knows what chemical/vibrational concoction you are eating.

[Constance]

After watching this video, there can be little doubt that these incredible beings feel for, and care for each other and their families just like we do...:bearhug:

Here, these beautiful beings understand that they are enroaching on human territory and yet they are so tender and trusting.

Hail the animal kingdom!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdTII_unZSA

[Akasha]

I just came across a recent Huff' Post article highlighting an Oxford University study which demonstrates the potential significance of a vegan diet from an ecological, economic and health perspective. Check out the related 1 minute video on the page too. I'd embed it but it's on Vimeo.


Having a vegan friend may make it harder for you to choose a weekly brunch spot, but according to a new study, the small vegan population might just have the right idea. Turns out, going vegan could be the key to saving both the planet and millions of lives.

According to researchers at Oxford University, worldwide veganism would also save some $700 billion to $1 trillion per year on health care, and cut food-related emissions by 70 percent.....(full article here (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/vegan-lifestyle-save-lives-2050_us_56fe75fde4b0a06d58056f03))

[Agape]

Thank you, I feel so desperate & alone in this fight. . . why do so few break this barrier of darkness?

I can get very sad on such things, the news , the endless wars , too sad ..

but it's probably important to realise it's been that way since the beginning when we set out foot on this planet .

The first of 4 Noble Truth of Buddha is realisation that 'Life Is Suffering'. [1]

Every day somewhere someone dies and someone is born anew, every minute or less . Someone have the best day today and many their worse .
Change is inevitable to all living things .. Time proceeds with its steady or fluctuating vector to form yet unknown future , leaving the imprint of its past like carpet woven to hyperspace . Everything just transforms ..

There are planets in faraway stars that are far more hospitable to host advanced life like yours than here ..

Seeing any one part of the truth , of the chain of causes and consequences is still a view broken to countless facets ,

the state free of suffering is not of this world [3]


in order to accommodate this extreme human situation we need to achieve extraordinary wisdom
that will heal the rest


:sleep:

Oh, Hi Agape :wave:

I hope you don't mind if I query a couple of points as highlighted above ?

Now as I don't know what your source is for [1] and [3] I'd like to post a different interpretation of the 4NT's which I consider are rendered in a much more positive light ... this from RigpaWiki (http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Four_Noble_Truths) :

The Four Noble Truths or the Four Realities of the Aryas, were taught by Buddha Shakyamuni as the central theme of the so-called first turning of the wheel of the Dharma after his attainment of enlightenment. They are:

1. The truth (or reality) of suffering which is to be understood,
2. The truth (or reality) of the origin of suffering, which is to be abandoned,
3. The truth (or reality) of cessation, which is to be actualized, and
4. The truth (or reality) of the path, which is to be relied upon.

In other words, like a doctor, Buddha Shakyamuni diagnosed our illness, wrote out a prescription and left it to us to take the medicine eh ? :bigsmile:



Somehow , I happened to skip reading your post and well , if you happen to read this times later ...


feel free to inquire about me from the internet records ...

I did study and teach and having my own knowledge ..and somehow, I'm still member of this forum , have couple of reports and interviews out there that could explain 'a little bit' but somehow I don't think this thread and manner in particular is particularly suitable for that purpose .

Proof of which is ...

I missed your posting :) Sorry about that .



The original version of 4 noble truth as taught by Buddha Shakyamuni during the first 'turning of the wheel' in Sarnath in either Pali ( his native language ) or Sanskrit ( the scholastic language , and they're both very close to each other )
can't be completely verified
since typically for teachers of old, Buddha himself wrote nothing , it was his chief disciples , the 'Arhats' ( known as the 16 arhats according to many scriptural resources ) who sat on transcribing and recording Buddhas teachings after he passed away ..

and that activity itself lasted for many years ..

but if you're asking about the 4 noble truth, the closest to original version I found in Bodhgaya and the most condensed version too is ( in Sanskrit ) :

1. Sarvam Dukham
2. Sarvam Anityam
3. Sarvam Anatmanam
4. Shantam Nirvanam


Transcriptions vary . In short it means that everything observable (''sarvam''=everything, all phenomenal existence as known through out the 6 realms ) is impermanent (''anityam'') , inter-dependant ( ''an-atmanam'' = literally , ''soul-less' or 'spiritless' or 'essence less' , depending on your formulation of reality ) and suffer decay , so it's inevitable we experience pain and suffering( 'dukham' ) - and no matter what anti-dotes can be applied , we are still going to experience pain and suffering.

Buddhas truth goes deep , deeper than most other gnostic systems known to me .

The 'clue' in understanding why is it so can be well studied from many doctrines , from Hindu and Buddhist theories of dependant origination to the phenomenology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenomenology_(philosophy)) of last century .
Following the correct understanding of 'dependant origination' the 'remedy' of cessation of causes of many of our sufferings can be found .

But ultimately , 'only nirvana is peace' ( Shantam Nirvanam ) , says Buddha , till you are an 'embodied being' within any of the realms of existence as we know them you're bound to experience impermanence and some level of pain and cessation ..

so 'complete peace' , Buddhas confirm does not exist in what they call 'Samsara' .

Nirvana , literally translated, means 'evaporating without trace' . So they said, till we are here we're part of the problem and its solution but can't have 'complete peace' .

:)

My understanding and path were very practical , and aged .. so I really do avoid scholastic debates and do not 'teach buddhism' as such either . Unless that's your inclination .



To explain this even more succinctly and without the bias many later buddhist teachings and teachers claimed to be 'Buddhas doctrine' ,

the original Buddha ( Shakyamuni ) did not promise any sort of 'eternal salvation' or 'freedom from suffering' to people is possible ,
he rather meticulously explained logical links and bounds between the 'experiencer' , 'experiencing' and 'experience' , reasons observable by anyone through their delicate sense of awareness and that this phenomenal reality is bound to happen following its own laws .


Upon that and building upon your abstract experience you're bound to experience yourself on many ascending levels of your reality ,

you're only 'liberated' from worldly existence if you 'disconnect' completely .

In the tenets of worldly existence every 'Buddha' is ultimately a reflection of his times and morals , an illusion . The true 'Buddha' residing in your Heart is a 'great secret' . Beyond Top Secret :bigsmile:

[Akasha]

Emily does it again, this time showing the "banned" footage from Milk Life's Dairy Milk Vs. Almond Milk Spelling Bee” commercial (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTS1RIZboqU) (check the comments and the like/dislike ratio in the original video).

qYcw0_OkAg8

[Akasha]

The video Kirolak shared in the OP was well on its way to going viral with Emily (Bite SIze Vegan) hailing its response as her most successful so far…….until YouTube decided to deem some of the content "inappropriate" and, as a result, flag it as age-restricted, meaning that folk would have to be logged in in order to watch it.

To counter this she's re-edited it so that the graphic footage is no longer present and is going to re-upload it (with a link to the original) today.

Please get behind this and give it some momentum again if you can.

XQYHqqu1ln0

[Sophocles]

Emily makes a good point in the above video saying "society wants the end product without having to acknowledge the process". Out of sight, out of mind...

[Pam]

The video Kirolak shared in the OP was well on its way to going viral with Emily (Bite SIze Vegan) hailing its response as her most successful so far…….until YouTube decided to deem some of the content "inappropriate" and, as a result, flag it as age-restricted, meaning that folk would have to be logged in in order to watch it.

To counter this she's re-edited it so that the graphic footage is no longer present and is going to re-upload it (with a link to the original) today.

Please get behind this and give it some momentum again if you can.

XQYHqqu1ln0



I am thankful Emily just didn't settle for the restriction. When we are told "no" it doesn't mean we have to accept it.

There are multitudes that are very happy with the status quo. They do not want anyone to lift their head out of the sand, and open their eyes.

[Akasha]

.....There are multitudes that are very happy with the status quo. They do not want anyone to lift their head out of the sand, and open their eyes.

I'd be more inclined to use the term blissfuly ignorant regarding the status quo. It's no coincidence that the horrors of animal agriculture take place behind closed doors and the industry wants it kept that way. Paul McCartney's much repeated catchphrase, "If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be a vegetarian" is just as true now as it was when he coined it. I also think his phrase could be altered from "vegetarian" to "vegan" since the overwhelming majority of animals exploited for their secretions / by-products end up in those hellholes too.

[Akasha]

Here's the re-edited, YouTube-friendly version of the presentation in the OP:

MrlfkxvJNj0

[Akasha]

Emily's latest presentation, delivered to an Irish audience and targeting the misconceptions of animal agriculture in Ireland:



The Best We Have To Offer? | Inside Ireland’s “Humane” Farming

Most people are against factory farming—but what about grass-fed, free-range, humane agriculture? Nowhere is animal agriculture more idealized and visually stunning than the rolling green landscape of Ireland. Undercover videos of animal abuse are exceedingly scarce and Ireland’s farmers pride themselves on higher standards and better regulations. So let’s take a close look at these higher standards—the very best we have to offer—and see if our assurances of “humane treatment” stand. Is it REALLY ‘not like that here?’

YBy5BqCv4us

[LoveTones]

If you use a computer, you are using animal parts.

[Akasha]

Emily's latest presentation, again, highly engaging and full of "nuggets" and, in spite of the title, with plenty of content poignent to non-vegans too:


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