Polish president likely killed in plane crash

[Lucrum]

(CNN) -- Polish President Lech Kaczynski was likely killed early Saturday when the plane he was traveling in with his wife crashed at a western Russian airport, a spokesman for Poland's Foreign Ministry told CNN.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/04/10/poland.president.plane.crash/index.html?hpt=T1

Could someone have interest getting rid of this guy?

I guess the obvious question about events like these is wether it was an accident or not...

[steve_a]

Hi Lucrum,

Check my thread out. http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?598-Another-aeroplane-dream&p=4833#post4833

Could be a coincidence but sent a chill up my spine....

Best regards,

Steve



http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/04/10/poland.president.plane.crash/index.html?hpt=T1

Could someone have interest getting rid of this guy?

I guess the obvious question about events like these is wether it was an accident or not...

[Lucrum]

You're right Steve, that was quite something indeed...

According to the norwegian newspaper I first saw this article in, the plane had touched the tree tops just before the runway then crashing to the ground and caught fire.

Sort of just the opposite of what your dream told you.

Can imagine it is a bit chilling seeing a dream sort of come true.

[Wood]

Could someone have interest getting rid of this guy?

I think Poland was the only country of any importance that rejected buying the H1N1 vaccines or allowing them to be sold in the country until they were properly tested. I think it was related to the immunity the pharma industry wanted, and that Poland ruled unconstitutional. If I remember it right Sweden did not buy the vaccines for its NHS but at least they allowed them to be sold on pharmacies.

I might not be 100% accurate, it is just what I remember.

[K626]

I think Poland was the only country of any importance that rejected buying the H1N1 vaccines or allowing them to be sold in the country until they were properly tested. I think it was related to the immunity the pharma industry wanted, and that Poland ruled unconstitutional. If I remember it right Sweden did not buy the vaccines for its NHS but at least they them to be sold on pharmacies.

I might not be 100% accurate, it is just what I remember.


Saturday, November 7, 2009
Poland Govt. Will Not Get Vaccines for people 11/7/09 1:17pm est
The Polish Government said they will NOT get vaccines for the people in Poland, as the makers of the vaccines do not want to be responsible for side effects. So they do NOT WANT THEM! **Good for the government there*

But of the article there is one admission I find the MOST Interesting - it is regarding Ukraine.

From Article:

WARSAW, Poland (AP) — Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said Friday that his government won't buy vaccines for swine flu that have not been properly tested or from producers who won't take responsibility for possible side effects.

Tusk told reporters that vaccine producers were pressuring governments to buy, but were also demanding that all responsibility and compensation for possible negative side effects fall upon government shoulders.

"Today we are dealing with great pressure from pharmaceutical firms ... we are dealing with expectations that hundreds of millions of zlotys (dollars) will be spent on vaccine while no one wants to guarantee that it has no side effects," he said.

[MorningSong]

Here on the Italian news, they are saying (translating literally) that the plane crash has "decapitated the Polish "elite" ."

Here are some links that mention who was on the plane:

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_polish-president-dies-in-plane-crash-in-russia_1369674


Polish president Lech Kaczynski was killed when a plane carrying 132 people crashed in thick fog on its approach to a Russian airport on Saturday, killing everyone on board, officials said.

Central bank governor Slawomir Skrzypek and several senior government officials were also among those on board the Tupolev Tu-154 plane, which came down as it neared Smolensk airport in western Russia.

***

Kaczynski's wife Maria was also on board, along with several high-ranking government officials. They included the chief of Poland's military Franciszek Gagor and deputy foreign minister Andrzej Kremer.



http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/world/europe/11poland.html


A plane carrying the Polish president, Lech Kaczynski, his wife and other high-ranking officials crashed in a heavy fog in western Russia on Saturday morning, killing all aboard, Polish officials said.

Former president Lech Walesa, who presided over Poland’s transition from communism, cast the crash in similar historic terms. “This is the second disaster after Katyn,” he told the news channel TVN-24. “They wanted to cut off our head there, and here the flower of our nation has also perished. Regardless of the differences, the intellectual class of those on the plane was truly great.”

Among those on board the plane were Mr. Kaczynski; his wife, Maria; former Polish president-in-exile Ryszard Kaczorowski; the deputy speaker of Poland’s parliament, Jerzy Szmajdzin’ski; the head of the president’s chancellery, Wladyslaw Stasiak; and the head of the National Security Bureau, Aleksander Szczygo.

While the death toll included much of the government, several of Warsaw’s paramount leaders were not on board — notably Prime Minister Donald Tusk, Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski and Mr. Komorowski, the head of the lower house of parliament.

The Italian version of Adnkronos ( http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/News/Esteri/Disastro-aereo-in-Russia-morto-il-presidente-polacco-Kaczynski_233913954.html ) lists these:


Tra le vittime figurano anche varie altre personalità di spicco della Polonia. Tanto che l'ex presidente nonché storico leader di Solidarnosc Lech Walesa ha dichiarato: "è morta l'elite del paese", mentre l'europarlamentare Wojciech Olejniczas parla di tragedia "di dimensioni inimmaginabili". Tra le personalità perite nella sciagura c'è l'ex presidente Ryszard Kaczorowski, il governatore della banca centrale di Varsavia Slawomir Skrzypek, il viceministro degli Esteri Andrzej Kremer, il capo di Stato maggiore Franciszek Gagor, il vicepresidente del Parlamento, Jerzy Smajdinski, il vicecancelliere sempre del Parlamento Wladyslaw Stasiak.

PS: In the Google Search list I did ("plane crash in Russia"), the NYTimes article has the date of April 11, 2012 (tomorrow) as on the article page itself, there is a picture of the Polish President with a link to a tribute which states he died April 11, 2012...just a typo or what????

[irishspirit]

not to forget the fact that their PM would not allow them to join the EURO ZONE until 2015.

http://www.wbj.pl/article-47913-poland-to-adopt-euro-in-2015.html

Also, this guy has been having major problems with russia. So, we shall see. However, lets hope that the polish people stay calm and give themselves time before going of on a path of no return.

What I also find funny is the fact that there are Elections due to occur in Poland also very soon, and by some miracle, they can now bring them forward.

Be Safe


Irishspirit

[irishspirit]

Opps, forgot, and on the Russian front, we got this also:

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Poland_approves_revised_US_missile_shield_agreement_999.html

[Swami]

PS: In the Google Search list I did ("plane crash in Russia"), the NYTimes article has the date of April 11, 2012 (tomorrow) as on the article page itself, there is a picture of the Polish President with a link to a tribute which states he died April 11, 2012...just a typo or what????

Cant find that "mistake". Could you copy and paste that please...

How curious, I watched this tube yesterday.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O933XLuvGbU

Question is, did they make that "2012-mistake" or are they trying to tell us something.......?
More and more I get the feeling its already 2012 :faint2:

[MorningSong]

Here it is Swami:


President of Poland Killed in Plane Crash in Russia - NYTimes.com
11 Apr 2010 ... A plane carrying the Polish president, Lech Kaczynski, and many of the country's leaders crashed as it landed in a heavy fog.
www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/world/europe/11poland.html - 9 minutes ago

WOW! They have already changed the whole page around!!

The link to a tribute biography to the Pres was under his picture and said something like "...who died 11 April, 2010"

Anyway...Links to related articles on that page:


Related

*
Kaczynski Often a Source of Tension Within E.U. (April 11, 2010)
*
Germany’s Merkel ‘Deeply Upset’ by Death (April 11, 2010)


Note the date!

Now there is also a longer list of who was on the plane:


Among those on board, according to the Web site of the newspaper Gazeta Wyborcza, were Mr. Kaczynski; his wife, Maria; former Polish president-in-exile Ryszard Kaczorowski; the deputy speaker of Poland’s parliament, Jerzy Szmajdzinski; the head of the president’s chancellery, Wladyslaw Stasiak; the head of the National Security Bureau, Aleksander Szczyglo; the deputy minister of foreign affairs, Andrzej Kremer; the chief of the general staff of the Polish army, Franciszek Gagor; the president of Poland’s national bank, Slawomir Skrzypek; the commissioner for civil rights protection, Janusz Kochanowski; the heads of all of Poland’s armed forces; and dozens of members of parliament.

Somewhere, I don't remember now exactly where, the acting Chief wants elections in 2 weeks... a bit hurried in my opinion... as, supposedly, the Conservative candidate was also on that plane... according to Italian news.

[Wood]

How curious, I watched this tube yesterday.....

I am not sure how that video is related to the death of the polish president. I've just watched it. It looks very amateur to me, and the basic message is "Man MUST obey the Lord or else be punished. Spend your time researching this because the end of the world is nigh!". I see just disinfo and fear-mongering there...

[Swanny]

A plane carrying the Polish president, Lech Kaczynski, his wife and other high-ranking officials crashed in a heavy fog in western Russia
Since when does a president and other high-ranking officials fly in the same plane????
If this isn't an assassination then I don't know what is

[MargueriteBee]

My first thought was, why were so many government officials all in one plane? That seems stupid to me.

[Swami]

Thx MS,

I have copied and saved this material.
This is or plain stupid arrogance or somebody on the inside (journalist..?) is trying to send out a message.
Other options...?

[Swami]

I am not sure how that video is related to the death of the polish president. I've just watched it. It looks very amateur to me, and the basic message is "Man MUST obey the Lord or else be punished. Spend your time researching this because the end of the world is nigh!". I see just disinfo and fear-mongering there...

The timeline Wood..... not the religious aspect...:rapture:

[Swami]

Since when does a president and other high-ranking officials fly in the same plane????
If this isn't an assassination then I don't know what is

Very well spoken Admiral....:eyebrows:

[MorningSong]

oops....Swami et al... Please forgive me!

I just saw the error I made on my post about the April 11 thing.....It is weird how it is ahead one day... but I am the one who made the biggest typo...2012 for 2010... I am doing that a LOT recently....maybe it IS ALREADY 2012 like you suggest!!! I never did figure out if the Mayan Calendar was on line with our modern calendar since even Jesus wasn't probably born in year 1 AD.

I am very sorry for all those people who died on that plane and I hope (but doubt) that the truth will be exposed. (Maybe they've gone underground!)

On Italian news, StudioAperto, ItaliaUno, they keep saying that the fog was so bad, the pilots were ordered to go land at Minsk but the pilot did not.... tried to land 4 times...the fourth try resulted in the crash.

[Swami]

oops....Swami et al... Please forgive me!

I just saw the error I made on my post about the April 11 thing.....It is weird how it is ahead one day... but I am the one who made the biggest typo...2012 for 2010... I am doing that a LOT recently....maybe it IS ALREADY 2012 like you suggest!!! I never did figure out if the Mayan Calendar was on line with our modern calendar since even Jesus wasn't probably born in year 1 AD.

I am very sorry for all those people who died on that plane and I hope (but doubt) that the truth will be exposed. (Maybe they've gone underground!)

On Italian news, StudioAperto, ItaliaUno, they keep saying that the fog was so bad, the pilots were ordered to go land at Minsk but the pilot did not.... tried to land 4 times...the fourth try resulted in the crash.

No problem my friend but I searched my ass off for that 2012....... :yo:
(I have the same problem btw, sometimes I have to look in what year we are....:confused:)

[Thodin303]

I hope (but doubt) that the truth will be exposed. (Maybe they've gone underground!)


I doubt the truth will come any time soon. An article I read said, "Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin personally assumed charge of the investigation." (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_russia_plane_crash)

[seismorg]

My first thought was, why were so many government officials all in one plane? That seems stupid to me.

I remember the same thing happened here ( NI ) some years ago, just before we go " the peace process " every top ranking police,MI5,MI6, intel rep were wiped out when their Chinook which just happened to have come back from the states crashed into a hill top in Scotland.
If we do not learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it.
Another sad day for the world.

[Swanny]

There’s no telling if the two events are connected, but their timing is mighty interesting.

The Polish government and the National Bank of Poland, in a “rare moment of unity,” agree to weaken Poland’s currency, the zloty, in an act that would benefit Poland’s exporters at the expense of Poland’s trading partners—that is, the European Union, among others. Then, the next day, Poland’s president and the president of its national bank die in a plane crash.


http://www.infowars.com/polands-leaders-move-to-weaken-currency-then-die-in-plane-crash/


Don't go against the will of tptb or you die :tape2:

[Swami]

Polish President Plane Crash: List of the Dead (Ongoing)

Lech Kaczynski - President of Poland

Maria Kaczynski - President's Wife

Pawel Wypych - Presidential aide

Mariusz Handzlik - Presidential aide

Ryszard Kaczorowski - Between 1989 and 1990 he served as the last Polish President in exile

Aleksander Szczyglo - Head of National Security Office

Andrzej Kremer - Deputy Foreign Minister

Jerzy Szmajdzinski - Former Defense Minister

Andrzej Przewoznik - in Charge of WWII Memorials

Gen. Franciszek Gagor - Head of Army Chief of Staff

Janusz Kurtyka - Head of the National Remembrance Institute

Slawomir Skrzypek - Head of National Bank of Poland

Janusz Kochanowski - Civil Rights Commissioner

Bishop Tadeusz Ploski - Army Chaplain

Przemyslaw Gosiewski - Lawmaker

Zbigniew Wassermann - Lawmaker

Grzegorz Dolniak - Lawmaker

General Tadeusz Buk - Head of Land Forces in Poland

Leszek Deptula - Member of Parliament

Katarzyna Doraczynska - Chancellery for the President

Janina Fetlinska - Senator

General Franciszek Gagor - Chief of Staff

Grazyna Gesicka - Member of Parliament

Przemyslaw Gosiewski - Member of Parliament

Izabela Jaruga-Nowacka - Member of Parliament

Sebastian Karpiniuk - Member of Parliament

Admiral Andrzej Karweta - Head of Polish Navy

Mariusz Kazana - Member of Foreign Ministry

Janusz Kochanowski, Poland's Ombudsman

Stanislaw Jerzy Komorowski - Deputy Defence Minister

Tomasz Merta - Deputy Culture Minister

Aleksandra Natalli-Swiat - Member of Parliament

Piotr Nurowski - Head of the Polish Olympics Committee

Krzysztof Putra - Deputy Speaker of Parliament

Arkadiusz Rybicki - Member of Parliament

Wladyslaw Stasiak - Head of Kaczynski's Chancellery

Jolanta Szymanek-Deresz - Member of Parliament

Izabela Tomaszewska - Chancellery for the President

Anna Walentynowicz - Former Solidarity Activist

Wieslaw Woda - Member of Parliament

Edward Wojtas - Member of Parliament

Stanislaw Zajac - Senator

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/polish-president-plane-crash-list-dead-ongoing-2603598.html

RIP

[MorningSong]

Wow...and wow again.... isn't that something...

[TheTruth]

InfoWars.com and PrisonPlanet.com i frequent everyday, this is a good source to watch.

--
There’s no telling if the two events are connected, but their timing is mighty interesting.
The Polish government and the National Bank of Poland, in a “rare moment of unity,” agree to weaken Poland’s currency, the zloty, in an act that would benefit Poland’s exporters at the expense of Poland’s trading partners—that is, the European Union, among others. Then, the next day, Poland’s president and the president of its national bank die in a plane crash
------
Poland has been dragging its feet in adopting the euro and joining the European Union, having pushed back its target date for doing so until 2015. Here in the U.S., we might say that Poland is not a “team player.” In the New World Order, bad things tend to happen to leaders who aren’t team players.
--

[Kikine]

I agree with you TheTruth.
Also, I think its strange that all those people would have been on the same plane. So many ...

[Dougall]

The first thing I thought of was the timing on this crash in relation to the Nuclear Treaty signed 2 days ago.
Now after reading this thread and learning about the devaluation of Poland's Currency combined with passenger list...
It may have been an opportunistic swipe, got to go along to get along kind of thing.

Pilot Error? Equipment Failure? I would think the very best Aircraft and Pilot would be available for this roster. Did the Pilot attempt to land the plane 4 times? I know accidents do happen and that coincidence happen as well, however it seems to me a real "Hot Shot Pilot" could have landed safely. This thing stinks to high heaven.

[K626]

Quite silly to put all those important people on the same plane. Bit new to the game the Poles.

[mgray]

http://www.infowars.com/polands-leaders-move-to-weaken-currency-then-die-in-plane-crash/


Don't go against the will of tptb or you die :tape2:

It goes further than the EU. Essentially The Polish president and his finance minister told the IMF to stay out of Poland's affairs and turned down a loan the IMF said it needed. This event happen in the last week.

[Humble Janitor]

He was "offed" for sure. There's just too much that points to it.

Sad to hear that people have to give their lives like this. The truth won't be suppressed much longer...

[DoctorWho]

It is true, this did decapitate the Polish "elite." A lady interviewed on NBC Nightly News said the exact same thing. Now a new head will grow, and who knows how it will act. And the reason mentioned that the plane used like it was had to do with Poland not having enough money for a new one, and in order to conserve money, everyone had to take the same plane.
Bill "the Doctor"

[Productivemind]

A creature of habit, I sat down yesterday morning with my first cup of coffee at the computer, and went directly to the news. The headline was huge of the crash that killed the President and all those government people while landing in Russia. As I read the story, I caught myself saying aloud that this was no accident. Lately I've been attempting to read articles and force myself to be objective, as it seems that I've developed the aggravating habit of reading between the lines, when at times there's nothing there. I've been exposed to so many real conspiracies and underhanded fenaglings that everything appears to be "fiddled with". After reading many reports on this situation, I have come to the conclusion that I am not completely delusional, yet, lol. There's way more to this story than is being told, and I'm calling it murder. Another whodunit. We shall see who benefits in the future from this tragedy. It struck me as odd that the challenger to the President in the upcoming election will be the one to take charge.

[gibonos]

As a polish guy I have to straighten out couple points.

The biggest winner in this accident is the prime minister, majority on board were opposition to current power.
Central bank did not devaluate currency, but intervene and bought euros (around 10 mln, which is nothing).
Last week there was a debacle (it was within government) about extending line of credit poland has with imf (around 20 billion euros),
we did not use it at all, but paid around 50 mln euros for having it ready.
Another issue was how to spend central banks last years profit, again PM wanted most of it, the head of the bank that died wanted to keep some for future events (as a security).

The plane was fine, it had only 5000 hours in air.

The airport that they were heading to was a military one. As a civil flight different rules apply. About 15 minutes before them, there was a military plane that was told to divert to a different airport, cause of the terrible fog (the airport doesn't have the system that allows fog landing). In case of civil flights the control tower can only suggest, not order, which they did.
I'm sure the pilot was under big pressure to land and to be on time to be a part of memorial ceremony in Katyn, where thousands of polish officers where killed by sowiets.
President kaczynski was going nuts over this with russia and this time was suppose to be different, putin had a better, more open approach to this.
If they were smart they would've landed somewhere else.

The whole thing is suspicious to say the least.
It's easy to engineer fog.
Big tragedy for many people, good indication to get ready mentaly before future events.
Compresion of time is hear.

gibonos

[Agape]

Please accept my condolences Poland , this is very sad, one of the strangest news I've read in my entire life . It's a shock for people all around the world I believe , well, clear reasoning and laws of human life say that our bodies are mortal, that even the best trained people do serious mistakes and that our technologies are prone to failures.
However, the question who is behind the intent other than it being accident remains.

There had been many suicidial bombings occuring recently in Russia as far as I've noticed in the news . It shows there's underground movement getting activated, against their own government.
These people use the same poor means as Islamic extremists which does not say they are Islamic extremists but points out they have very little respect for human life and are ready to sacrifice everything for their cause.

I'm far from being political analyst but I think that Russia has to be aware and quite afraid of potential conflicts bursting to open and uncontrollable violence in their own territory .

Very recently , this Thursday , an agreement has been signed between US and Russia on reduction of long range nuclear missiles .
It being step to global safety on Earth, one step against global destruction.

Poland is one of the sensitive regions , formerly part of Warshaw pact who are now 'changing their feathers' ( that's not how I see it but I know some evil people do, on both sides of the chessboard) as they are now part of NATO and it's in their own interest to accept their role in global defense initiatives.

It seems to me, that what I percive as long wished for but fragile peace between the former Soviets who profoundly failed to accomplish their communist ideals moreover betrayed everyone on the conviction that they are guided by conscience and US who are facing abrupt social and economical challenges at this time while both have to face the fact that WE ARE ONE PEOPLE LIVING ON ONE PLANET and whatever one does affects the other,
the peace between those two is not to everyones liking it seems to me.

Disturbed emotions in people , unhealed wounds can overgrow to violence , that's what I am afraid of and what should be repaired ,
from all the sides , by offering not only empathy and regret but real aid on places where help is needed.
Unless such non sided , humanly oriented and forthcoming steps are taken , future relationships in the region could be seriously affected and in turn global geo-political situation as well.

Peace to all , may there be peace..

A

[Swami]

n one fell swoop, Russia took revenge. The plane was a Polish military aircraft, totally revamped and updated. It could land in fog, and it that were not possible, they would not take a chance with the lives of all those high-level people and would have aborted landing.
This was deliberate. There is no question.

http://expansions.com/News.cfm

[Lucrum]

At the time of my original posting, I did not know about the other people onboard that plane. Already at that moment it struck me as a bit iffy, but could of course just be accidental.

But now, with all those people onboard and now dead...basically a dedicated governmental flight...I can't see any good reason for this being just an accident.

[monique]

Lucrum i agree with you - may have been an accident. But ...
In my country (Brazil) this type of accident was very common during the military dictatorship. The general himself who gave the military coup "suffered" a deadly plane crash. General Castelo Branco died and others generals took power.
Today the world increasingly looks (to me) more like a military dictatorship that we had here.
Swanny is accurate, "Do not go against the will of tptb or you die."
Peace, Monique.

[Swanny]

I think the world lost some of the good people :(

[Dougall]

InfoWars.com and PrisonPlanet.com i frequent everyday, this is a good source to watch.

--
There’s no telling if the two events are connected, but their timing is mighty interesting.
The Polish government and the National Bank of Poland, in a “rare moment of unity,” agree to weaken Poland’s currency, the zloty, in an act that would benefit Poland’s exporters at the expense of Poland’s trading partners—that is, the European Union, among others. Then, the next day, Poland’s president and the president of its national bank die in a plane crash
------
Poland has been dragging its feet in adopting the euro and joining the European Union, having pushed back its target date for doing so until 2015. Here in the U.S., we might say that Poland is not a “team player.” In the New World Order, bad things tend to happen to leaders who aren’t team players.
--

Truth - will you please post a link to your source regarding the Polish Currency? I can't find one.
Thank you

[Productivemind]

Dougall, I think this may be the link TheTruth was referring to.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/poland%E2%80%99s-leaders-move-to-weaken-currency-then-die-in-plane-crash.html

[Dougall]

Thank you Productivemind.

[avid]

http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3270%3Atop-polish-leaders-opposing-euro-and-swine-flu-vaccines-wiped-out-in-mysterious-plane-crash&catid=41%3Ahighlighted-news&Itemid=105&lang=en


Top Polish leaders opposing euro and swine flu vaccines wiped out in mysterious plane crash

According to media, authorities are handling the deaths of top Polish political, military and economic leaders in a plane crash in the western Russian city of Smolensk on Saturday as an accident.

But a day after the crash, many unanswered questions surround the event.

Polskaweb has said that an assassination cannot be ruled out.

There are many reasons to dismiss the official story of how Poland’s president, all of Poland's top army chiefs, the central bank governor and secret service chief died as a cover-up of massive proportions.

According to the mainstream media, the Polish delegation was flying from Warsaw to Smolensk to mark the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre of thousands of Poles by Soviet secret service during the second world war.

But the official ceremony marking the Katyn anniversary was held earlier in the week on Wednesday and attended by Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk and Russian head of state Vladimir Putin.

The Polish President Lech Kaczynski was not invited.

How come Presidnt Kaczynski and half of Poland’s government flew to Katyn three days after the official anniversary?

Why did100 figures who are vital for the day-to-day functioning of the Polish government go to a relatively insignificant ceremony, and not to the main one?

What reason could there be for the Polish central bank governor to fly to Katyn to attend the ceremony?

Why did the 100 top Polish leaders all fly on the same plane?

How could security protocols that require that even a president and his deputy fly separately be so relaxed that so many key people needed to run the Polish government from day to day are allowed to fly on the same plane?

And in a Russian Tupolev plane, and to the traditional arch-enemy of Poland, Russia?

This massacre of the Polish elite occurred on the way to commemorate the murder of 4000 Polish officers and intellecturals massacred by the Soviets in 1940.

But what is the probability of a second massacre of the entire Polish leadership occurring in the same place 70 years later?

Why were none of the journalists that accompany the president on the plane as usual?

According to Polish media, journalists were told that they had been assigned to another plane that had had technical problems and they would, therefore, need to switch to a third plane, delaying their arrival in Katyn.

The delay of the journalists in arriving at the scene of the crash allowed a better manipulation of the media coverage........


much more on link.....
http://www.theflucase.com/
Top Polish leaders opposing euro and swine flu vaccines wiped out in mysterious plane crash
President and two presidential candidates killed, reports WSJ
Polish President’s Body Returns Home as Tusk expands power base
Polish central bank faces questions after governor killed in plance crash
All Poland's top people wiped out in one hit, reports Christopher Story
Senior Polish figures killed in plane crash, reports BBC
Is the plane crash killing Polish elite part of a battle for control of monetrary policy by the globalists seeking economic domination?
Polish political elite killed in airplane crash today
Komorowski to pick new central bank governor after president dies in plane crash too
Central Bank Governor's death to test anti-euro, anti-IMF policy
Polish Central Bank Governor dies in plane crash Saturday
Polish Central Bank intervened Friday to devalue Zloty
Bilderbergs to focus on control of world economies at this year's secretive meeting

Avid

[avid]

http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3281%3Arussian-authorities-change-story-about-bodies-at-the-crash-site&catid=1%3Alatest-news&Itemid=64&lang=en


Russian authorities change story about bodies at the crash site

The Russian autorities have changed their version about whether bodies were found at the crash site of the Tupolev plane or not.

On Saturday, Russia's emergencies minister said that the bodies of the people on the crashed Tupolev had been found, according to RIA Novosti.

"All the bodies of the dead have been located," Sergei Shoigu told Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, who heads a commission on the disaster.

http://en.rian.ru/world/20100410/158513406.html

Today, Ria Novosti has reported that the bodies in the crash are "hard to identify" and that the search for remains is continuing.

A Polish cameraman who filmed the site immediately after the crash found no trace of bodies.

Given the unlikelihood of Poland's top political and military leaders flying on the same plan, the execution or kidnapping of some of them in Poland cannot be ruled out.

To explain their deaths to the general public, their names could have been added to the passenger list.

According to media, only 14 bodies could be identified in Moscow with the rest being too badly burned.

This is a report in RIA Novosti:

http://en.rian.ru/world/20100412/158530343.html


Check out http://www.theflucase.com for more info

It is unthinkable that all the top government officials would be on one plane.... (even the Head of Security)!!!

This stinks :mad2:

Avid

[Luke]

Ok, I see I need to clarify things a bit.
First : key figures opposing vaccinations were not on that plane. (Health Minister E.Kopacz)
key figures that were for vaccination (especially "ombundsman" J.Kochanowski) were. See here (http://finanse.wp.pl/kat,97514,title,Lack-of-flu-vaccine-a-crime,wid,11694786,wiadomosc_prasa.html)
Second: People wiped out, especially members of Presidential party PiS (Law and Justice) were known Pro-US and eurosceptics. They lost all nearly popular figures, those left, like President's brother J. Kaczynski are very unpopular and/or have very strong totalitarian leanings
Third: Both President and J. Szmajdziński (Lewica -Left) were serious candidates in Presidential elections scheduled on November. The only other serious candidate was Bronislaw Komorowski, who is taking President's place now.
Fourth: Central Bank Governor Skrzypek was known in economic circles for his lack of judgment and Marxist leanings, was also in bitter conflict with finance minister Rostowski.
Really, flu trail is barking on wrong tree.

[Lucrum]

Think I tend to agree with SaiCO on this one.

I don't think the flu problem would be grave enough to make anyone do this grand style.
To me it looks like a "subtle" way to overthrow a government.

Any further elaboration will only be speculations from my part. Still waiting for the official conclusion as to what happened, and to see if we will ever get to hear anything from the flight recorder.
To have found the recorder the same day, sending it to investigations and still no results from that...takes time to forge it, maybe?

But seriously, yeah...think we need to see some more development here before digging too deep into guesswork, qualified or not. :)

[avid]

Curiouser and curiouser....

http://urbansurvival.com/week.htm


Letters From the Front
During most wars (and occasionally revolutions) people receive 'letters from the front' and this one about Poland is mighty instructive:
"Hello George
You know, where it's about real shockers, they usually need few days to emerge from the deep water and this is probably because of their weight level.

Yes,we have one standing hair on many heads since yesterday evening when it was discovered.But before about it,a short history lesson...

Since 1795 till 11/11/1918 Poland didn't existed as a country but-due to the strategical mistakes made by our rulers and nobility from XVI century for some 200 years-was ripped off and partited between Russia,Prussians and Habsburgs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partitions_of_Poland

In the end of the WWI mainly because of Jozef Pilsudzki mentioned yesterday, independent polish legions were formed which helped to fight our independence back, what happened in the same day when the war finished, Nov 11th,1918.Everything was going okay until 1939,or to be more exact Sep 17th when Soviet army accomplished her part of Ribbentrop-Molotov pact attacking back of Poland fighting with Germans already.

Between these two dates, regaining the independence and losing it until 1989 (none patriot here calls the times of Communist regime 1945-1989 an independence) passed exactly

7616 days.

Let's switch to the modern times.

Ruling of commies in Poland finished at June the 4th,1989 when the first non-communist government was formed. And again, everything was going just fine until the day where whole our political and patriot elite, and all army leaders die at the same moment, leaving the country practically defenseless and in the hands of one man being PTB puppet. Guess, how many days passed between these two moments?

Yes, exactly as many as you think...

http://tiny.pl/hgk7l (<--Slow due to translation time -G)

Oh,and what is funnier, mr. Olechowski is another candidate for our prez in the fastened elections-so we have NWO master, NWO puppet and few little fishes with backing of mayby 1%.What a nice choice, dammit.

But of course we all are supposed to believe this was all an accident, right? The fact that malware around the incident was out within hours - just coincidence, got it?

Thanks to all those who are trying to 'ground the sceptical' - from whichever side of the fence.
This event is so absurd, noone in their right minds would have put all those people together on one flight....
It still stinks..... :-(

[Swami]

Listen at the end of the vid.

It SOUNDS like gunshots, I'm not saying there are gunshots.........

http://patrz.pl/filmy/plonacy-wrak-samolotu-prezydenckiego-tu-154-amatorski-film-z-miejsca-katastrofy-pod-smolenskiem

[Lucrum]

Well, yes...that could very well sound like shots fired...

Could of course be something burning, that keeps blowing up...but that would usually involve some crackling noises as well?

Certainly interesting, but as you say...it SOUNDS like gunshots, no way to tell if they really are. Guy in the clip seems to react to them though, seemed stressed out when he heard it?

[Swanny]

Does sound a lot like gun shots

[haibane]

Ok, I see I need to clarify things a bit.
Thanks for the explanation SaiCO. I'm from Czech Rep and I don't know **** about the Polish political scene except the Kaczinski brothers, even though I have Polish friends and we talk about politics from time to time. It would actually be nice if you could fill us in a bit more on this, as all we've got is the usual mainstream media bias on one side, and wild conspiracy speculations from people who know as much as I do on the other side.


It SOUNDS like gunshots, I'm not saying there are gunshots........
Yes, it does indeed. It also sounds like large, structurally unsupported sheets of metal quickly changing temperature, like for instance cooling ... BTW the guy filming is essentially just being chased out, which is something that would happen at any such crash site.

I agree that the whole affair stinks, but unless we know more about the people on board and their real political inclinations, motivations and allegiances, all we can come up with is not even speculation. It'll all become more clear after we see what their successors actually do.

[Swami]

I heard/read SPECULATIONS that the wheels visable in the video do not belong to the plane those peoples were flying in....

[Swami]

Black Box Reveals Pilots of Polish President's Jet Knew They were Doomed


Pilots of Polish President Lech Kaczynski's plane knew they were doomed to crash in the final seconds of their flight, analysis of the black boxes shows.

A member of the investigation team has revealed there was 'dramatic' speech on the flight deck moments before the Tupolev-154 hit the ground in dense fog killing all 96 passengers and crew.

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/206856-Black-box-reveals-pilots-of-Polish-president-s-jet-knew-they-were-doomed-and-there-was-dramatic-flight-deck-speech

[Lucid Jia]

Here is an interesting break down of the vid. Gun shots. People falling after shots. Cry of "don't kill us!"... very eerie and suspicious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxIFh3NkEvM&feature=player_embedded

[Luke]

Right. sure. This vid is circulating for a week now. Do you really think Anybody would be dumb enough to do such a thing? Operators yelling and not using silencers? c'mon, get real.
"shots" are hot duraluminium sprinkled with water. rest is exercise in reverse speech.
The question that should be asked is how the hell that airplane happened to be at altitude of 8 meters kilometer before the runway? Especially when cloud base was at 30 meters?
Why Belorussian special forces are so interested in pulling out any bit of information AGAINST Russians (like the report about broken landing lights on airport) .. actually this vid can be traced to that source too...

[Solphilos]

Interesting tidbit in the news about the maker of this video: It appears as though the guy was stabbed, admitted to the hospital, then the perpetrators approached him again in the hospital, unplugged his respirator, then stabbed him again. Coincidence? Definitely sounds like a contract kill to me.

(crudely translated from the original Polish article)

Re: The author of the movie "Smolensk shots after the disaster"
(2010-04-20 00:14)
~ Paulo

The film, which has already zepewne everyone can see, the author
this movie Adrij Mendierej, which was dug(stabbed) in(with) the knife
15 Kw.2010 near Kiev, he was
przewieżony in an awful state to a hospital in
Kiev, where on April 16 two unknown people
odłączyło(unplugged) his respirator. J once again dug(stabbed) him
3 times (with)a knife. Andriy died afternoon o15.03 time
Moscow 16 April 2010 year. But
course, this is the case by the Russian government.

The article can be found here: http://fakty.interia.pl/raport/lech-kaczynski-nie-zyje/news/dwie-czarne-skrzynki-juz-rozszyfrowane/komentarze,1467054,1,29891999,3,3

[avid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoUkobHYAlk

Well worth watching
POLISH PLANE CRASH TRUTH VIDEO
JaneBurgermeister
what a brave woman

[avid]

Polish media questions crash: anger flashes among people at funeral
April 19, 2010 by Jane Burgermeister
Talking to Polish people attending the funeral of President Lech Kaczynski in Krakow main square yesterday suggested that the majority suspected a government involvement in the plane crash that killed the Polish president, two opposition presidential candidates, the central bank governor, key army generals and the national security chief in Smolensk, Russia, last Saturday.

Almost everyone said that the death of so many key figures would have a major impact on Poland and that it would galvanise them to take a more active role in politics.

People carrying Solidarnosc flags and holding a banner claiming a coup d’etat was underway were among those assembled in the main square yesterday to watch the funeral ceremony on an outdoor TV screen.

The Berliner Philharmonic and Simon Rattle flew in by helicopter to play Mozart’s Requiem when Kaczynski was placed in the Crypt in Wawel Castle, adding to the theatrical, staged and slightly surreal atmosphere srrounding event.

The news that President Barack Obama, Prince Charles, Chancellor Angela Merkel and President Nicolas Sarkozy cancelled at the last moment because of a volcanic ash cloud has fuelled speculation.

Today, German media reported that there is no objective evidence of any cloud of ash from a volcano disrupting European air space, strongly suggesting that the cloud exists only in virtual reality, and was fabricated to serve political purposes.

After the ceremony yesterday, people gathered in groups on the square to discuss the official version of events, arguing over the facts, debating who was behind the crash, with some openly accusing Kaczynski of being murdered while others called for an independent investigation.

The mood of sadness gave way to anger.

Facts that call into question the official version of the plane crash as an accident due to pilot error are being spread not just on the internet and independent media but also increasingly in the Polish mainstream media.

Control of the mainstream media is a key factor in shaping public opinion, and so far the Polish media has been largely uncritical of the official version.

Polskaweb has revealed that the Polish militarz security services kept track of the plane using a GPS equipment, and that the services may also have access to all the conversations between the pilot and the air control tower.

A top code breaking expert belonging to the services vanished a few months ago.

The Polish media is focussing on the fact that infrared lamps at the Smolensk were changed one hour after the accident. There is a suggestion the lamps could even have been without bulbs.

In addition, questions surround the alleged fog at the airport at the time of the crash.

The bodies of the pilot and the the top military commanders have still not been identified. Relatives of the victims are having to fly to Moscow to give DNA samples to help in the identification.

After watching the videos, the gunshots after desperate cries for help, the video-making guy getting attacked, this whole matter must be addressed internationally. It is obviously a coup d'état in favour of the NWO.
Bodies returned in sealed coffins??? If I was a relative I'd have demanded a second opinion/post-mortem/dna sampling.
The stench of corruption is worse than the 'no-fly' lie' :rolleyes:

[haibane]

Interestingly, the Czech president remembered there are other means of transportation than planes and the oh-so-inconvenient cars and went by TRAIN. Also the Moroccan prime minister actually FLEW to Kraków in a small Cessna jet, which flies in lower altitude than regular commercial traffic, avoiding the potentially dangerous volcanic ash cloud.

To me this absolutely no effort to even try is a clear message from all the governments, especially EU ones, that cancelled.