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Daozen
12th November 2016, 02:16
Here's a set of links to mainstream articles showing Donald Trump in another light.

http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2016-11-10/lawsuits-against-donald-trump-unprecedented-for-president-elect

http://www.ibtimes.com/when-has-trump-been-accused-rape-or-attempted-rape-three-times-women-have-pressed-2444712


Jane Doe, also known under pseudonym Katie Johnson, in 1994: As of October, the president-elect was set to head to court on Dec. 16 over allegations that he and Jeffrey Epstein, who has his own history of sex crimes, raped a woman when she was 13 years old.

The details of the case are murky, however. The original lawsuit, filed in June, accuses the two billionaires of “rape, sexual misconduct, criminal sexual acts, sexual abuse, forcible touching, assault, battery, intentional and reckless infliction of emotional distress, duress, false imprisonment and defamation” of “Jane Doe” at Epstein’s Manhattan residence. But the New York district court order for Trump and Epstein didn’t outline any charges. It only requested whatever information the defendants might have, such as “a brief description of prior settlement discussions (without disclosing the parties’ offers or settlement positions)” and “any other information that the parties believe may assist that Court in advancing the case to settlement or trial.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-rape-case_us_581a31a5e4b0c43e6c1d9834

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lisa-bloom/why-the-new-child-rape-ca_b_10619944.html


An anonymous “Jane Doe” filed a federal lawsuit against GOP presumptive nominee Donald Trump last week, accusing him of raping her in 1994 when she was thirteen years old. The mainstream media ignored the filing.

If the Bill Cosby case has taught us anything, it is to not disregard rape cases against famous men. Serious journalists have publicly apologized for turning a blind eye to the Cosby accusers for over a decade, notwithstanding the large number of women who had come forward with credible claims. And now history is repeating itself.

In covering a story, a media outlet is not finding guilt. It is simply reporting the news that a lawsuit has been filed against Mr. Trump, and ideally putting the complaint in context. Unproven allegations are just that - unproven, and should be identified that way. (Mr. Trump’s lawyer says the charges are “categorically untrue, completely fabricated and politically motivated.”) Proof comes later, at trial. But the November election will come well before any trial. And while Mr. Trump is presumed innocent, we are permitted — no, we are obligated — to analyze the case’s viability now.

No outsider can say whether Mr. Trump is innocent or guilty of these new rape charges. But we can look at his record, analyze the court filings here, and make a determination as to credibility — whether the allegations are believable enough for us to take them seriously and investigate them, keeping in mind his denial and reporting new facts as they develop.

I have done that. And the answer is a clear “yes.” These allegations are credible. They ought not be ignored. Mainstream media, I’m looking at you

*


3. The new Jane Doe child rape claim against Mr. Trump is consistent with verifiable facts about Mr. Trump and his friend Jeffrey Epstein, and has a powerful witness statement attached to it.

A third woman accused Mr. Trump of rape very recently. According to the Daily Mail, a woman filed an April 2016 lawsuit claiming that when she was thirteen years old she was held as a sex slave to Mr. Trump and his friend Jeffrey Epstein. The woman claimed to have a witness, “Tiffany Doe,” to the incidents. She filed the case in pro per, that is, without the assistance of a lawyer.

The case was dismissed by the court for technical filing errors. She then obtained a lawyer and the case was modified and refiled in New York federal court, against Mr. Trump and Mr. Epstein.

I’ve carefully reviewed this federal complaint. It is now much stronger than the one she filed on her own, which makes sense because she now has an experienced litigator representing her. Jane Doe says that as a 13-year-old, she was enticed to attend parties at the home of Jeffrey Epstein with the promise of money modeling jobs. Mr. Epstein is a notorious “billionaire pedophile” who is now a Level 3 registered sex offender — the most dangerous kind, “a threat to public safety” — after being convicted of misconduct with another underage girl.

Jane Doe says that Mr. Trump “initiated sexual contact” with her on four occasions in 1994. Since she was thirteen at the time, consent is not an issue. If Mr. Trump had any type of sexual contact with her in 1994, it was a crime.

On the fourth incident, she says Mr. Trump tied her to a bed and forcibly raped her, in a “savage sexual attack,” while she pleaded with him to stop. She says Mr. Trump violently struck her in the face. She says that afterward, if she ever revealed what he had done, Mr. Trump threatened that she and her family would be “physically harmed if not killed.” She says she has been in fear of him ever since.

New York’s five year statute of limitations on this claim — the legal deadline for filing — has long since run. However, Jane Doe’s attorney, Thomas Meagher, argues in his court filing that because she was threatened by Mr. Trump, she has been under duress all this time, and therefore she should be permitted additional time to come forward. Legally, this is calling “tolling” — stopping the clock, allowing more time to file the case. As a result, the complaint alleges, Jane Doe did not have “freedom of will to institute suit earlier in time.” He cites two New York cases which I have read and which do support tolling

Two unusual documents are attached to Jane Doe’s complaints — sworn declarations attesting to the facts. The first is from Jane Doe herself, telling her horrific story, including the allegation that Jeffrey Epstein also raped her and threatened her into silence, and this stunner:

Defendant Epstein then attempted to strike me about the head with his closed fists while he angrily screamed at me that he, Defendant Epstein, should have been the one who took my virginity, not Defendant Trump . . .

And this one:

Defendant Trump stated that I shouldn’t ever say anything if I didn’t want to disappear like Maria, a 12-year-old female that was forced to be involved in the third incident with Defendant Trump and that I had not seen since that third incident, and that he was capable of having my whole family killed.

The second declaration is even more astonishing, because it is signed by “Tiffany Doe,” Mr. Epstein’s “party planner” from 1991-2000. Tiffany Doe says that her duties were “to get attractive adolescent women to attend these parties.” (Adolescents are, legally, children.

Tiffany Doe says that she recruited Jane Doe at the Port Authority in New York, persuaded her to attend Mr. Epstein’s parties, and actually witnessed the sexual assaults on Jane Doe:

Daozen
12th November 2016, 04:37
Another Elephant-in-the-Room thread:

There are currently 43 users browsing this thread. (8 members and 35 guests)
Daozen mpennery Sean Satori Universoul the_real_dave-id Happyjak

Very high view counts, (compared to 3-5 viewers on other new posts threads right now)... everyone's watching, no one's posting. All I'll say is this: If you buy into the narrative that only the Democrats are involved in child rape, and stay silent when it comes to Trump, what does that tell people about your society?

lucidity
12th November 2016, 05:36
The people behind the MSM... were behind the 'Kilary' Clinton presidential bid.
They are upset that Kilary lost and are now out to get Trump.

Obviously i don't know if there is any substance to these allegations, or not.
But it wouldn't surprise me if it was all a load of bullshine.
They pinned the same bull**** on Assange.

There's a story on rt.com that the organisations headed by Sorros are leading
the demonstrations against Trump.
See here:
https://www.rt.com/usa/366579-soros-orgs-driving-trump-protests/

My suggestion is...
Read between the lines... don't believe any old media hysteria.

Remember.. Normally, the convention is ... that there is a grace period, a 'honey moon' period
after a new President is elected... and during that period political sniping and warring is suspended.
What happened to that 'honey moon' period ?
The Cabal owns the media... The Cabal don't want Trump.
The fact that he was democratically elected by you-the-people... seems to be irrelevant.

It might just be ... that Trump _really_is_ ... a white hat president.

...
...
... but.. at the back of my mind... i keep wondering...
if he's going to make an exit the same way Kennedy did.

Billy Vasiliadis
12th November 2016, 05:54
I think that a lot of people, myself included, want to believe that this result means something positive. That it signifies a positive change in the way society is governed. With the current high of optimism, it is no surprise that people are unwilling to consider the fact that this is not the case and that we have been duped yet again. I really do want to believe that a positive shift has taken place as a result of this election, but perhaps I am just deluding myself. The early signs have not been promising, if the news stories are to be believed about racist incidents that have taken place in that States. I hope things calm down soon and that we don't see an escalation in hate crimes. Peace people, peace.

Daozen
12th November 2016, 06:51
I think that a lot of people, myself included, want to believe that this result means something positive. That it signifies a positive change in the way society is governed. With the current high of optimism, it is no surprise that people are unwilling to consider the fact that this is not the case and that we have been duped yet again. I really do want to believe that a positive shift has taken place as a result of this election, but perhaps I am just deluding myself. The early signs have not been promising, if the news stories are to be believed about racist incidents that have taken place in that States. I hope things calm down soon and that we don't see an escalation in hate crimes. Peace people, peace.

There's a lot of positivity everywhere... agricultural revolutions and innovations, unprecedented data dumps, general planetary optimism.... amazing software and apps being released, governments on the back-foot, people's psychic abilities waking up, better and better health information all over the place..

There's much to be grateful for. I just don't want to project that positivity onto a public figure. All of the above ^^^ trends come directly from US-the-people.

As Dune taught us: Beware of Heroes.


Author Frank Herbert said in 1979 "The bottom line of the Dune trilogy is: beware of heroes. Much better rely on your own judgment, and your own mistakes."[2] He wrote in 1985, "Dune was aimed at this whole idea of the infallible leader because my view of history says that mistakes made by a leader (or made in a leader's name) are amplified by the numbers who follow without question."

Cidersomerset
12th November 2016, 11:06
Obviously if he is guilty of these accusations , due process should/must proceed....

After saying that I watched this weeks Question time thurs and
Have I got news for you last night and the anti Trump atmosphere
on the panels and audience was hostile towards him and they were
so ill informed it was cringing to watch at times...

==============================================

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/3.20.5/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png


Short vid on link.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/37942550

Trump accuser: ‘I will speak the truth’

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/cpsprodpb/11DBE/production/_92405137_p04g19t1.jpg

A woman who accused president-elect Donald Trump of sexual assault,
which he denied, asks him to retract "liar" claims.

7h ago

From the section US Election 2016


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/37942550


===============================================
===============================================

XtNj1RxhRu0

==============================================

All 6 Trump Accusers Debunked - 3 Alleged Victims Defend Trump Against Media Lies!

PFrhjw0VSqw
Published on 14 Oct 2016

All 6 Trump Assault Accusers Debunked - 3 Alleged Victims Defend Trump Against
Media Lies!

3 of 6 Alleged Sexual Assault Victims Defend Trump, Calling The Media Liars

Lifebringer
12th November 2016, 14:38
Nobody listened when I connected Trump and Bill Clinton on Epstein's Island off FL in Epstein's list of guests. :o
The girl was kidnapped from NY, flown to the island and raped with witnesses and the Epstein fellow was pissed at Trump, because he wanted to be first and smacked her around, mad at him. They cleaned her up and the "girl that tricked her helped her escape, was later found dead. She ran back to her California hometown, filed charges that were thrown out due to filing in wrong state. Refiled in NY.... these times, they are a changing...
Truth on both party's side is they both have a streak of pedo in them, even the women who trick little run-aways.

Satori
12th November 2016, 15:38
Another Elephant-in-the-Room thread:

There are currently 43 users browsing this thread. (8 members and 35 guests)
Daozen mpennery Sean Satori Universoul the_real_dave-id Happyjak

Very high view counts, (compared to 3-5 viewers on other new posts threads right now)... everyone's watching, no one's posting. All I'll say is this: If you buy into the narrative that only the Democrats are involved in child rape, and stay silent when it comes to Trump, what does that tell people about your society?

What would you have us say? No doubt that type of sick and disgusting, criminal and evil behavior goes on--and it is not a function of party or political affiliation. It seems to be more a function of the level of one's wealth which leads to associations with others of wealth; some of whom are believed or known to have done such terrible things. On that score, and on that score only, Trump has a mark against him.

But, mere allegations made some 20-30 years after the alleged event, coming, suspiciously, only when Trump ran for President is not enough for me to weigh in on or to accept the allegations as true. This may have happened, or it may not have happened. None of us know. I have seen all kinds of allegations made in complaints filed in court, but when it came down to proving the allegations, there was no proof. Just because others with wealth have engaged in this abberrant behavior, even if Trump knew them, is not proof of anything about Trump's behavior. Fortunately, guilt by association is not sufficient to convict anyone in a court of law. Unfortunately, it can be enough to convict someone in the court of public opinion.

neutronstar
12th November 2016, 19:08
Another Elephant-in-the-Room thread:

There are currently 43 users browsing this thread. (8 members and 35 guests)
Daozen mpennery Sean Satori Universoul the_real_dave-id Happyjak

Very high view counts, (compared to 3-5 viewers on other new posts threads right now)... everyone's watching, no one's posting. All I'll say is this: If you buy into the narrative that only the Democrats are involved in child rape, and stay silent when it comes to Trump, what does that tell people about your society?

Who is saying only Democrats are involved in child rape? You must be new to this subject. It is well known that George Senior Bush is a pedo. Child sex trafficking in politics and the elite has been going on for thousands of years.

As for Trump being a pedo. I have yet to see credible evidence.

bettye198
12th November 2016, 20:30
This thread is negative energy foisted upon us all. Those of us who are seeing thru the veil at something hopeful and expansive not limiting and constrictive will choose to ignore. The awareness brings up an innate knowing that much of what is negative entertainment to mock and destroy a man who is genuinely trying to put our country back together again is designed with great effort to fabricate distort misinform and outright lie from the mainstream media. We were taught not to listen to them. But sometimes we need reminders.

greybeard
12th November 2016, 20:50
We have had months of negative energy, WWW111 is about to happen--the anti Hillary posts--the anti Trump posts the anti Obama posts--have I missed anyone out Oh the earth quakes in Italy are down to karma.

Now Im not saying that there is no truth in any of it --of course it may be so--but regardless--too much of this kind of energy is not life supporting.
There is a balance--reporting can be done without sensationalizing.

Chris

Sueanne47
12th November 2016, 21:00
We have had months of negative energy, WWW111 is about to happen--the anti Hillary posts--the anti Trump posts the anti Obama posts--have I missed anyone out Oh the earth quakes in Italy are down to karma.

Now Im not saying that there is no truth in any of it --of course it may be so--but regardless--too much of this kind of energy is not life supporting.
There is a balance--reporting can be done without sensationalizing.

Chris

:biggrin1: I'm having a drink.. how about you Chris? :beer: :cocktail:

greybeard
12th November 2016, 21:07
We have had months of negative energy, WWW111 is about to happen--the anti Hillary posts--the anti Trump posts the anti Obama posts--have I missed anyone out Oh the earth quakes in Italy are down to karma.

Now Im not saying that there is no truth in any of it --of course it may be so--but regardless--too much of this kind of energy is not life supporting.
There is a balance--reporting can be done without sensationalizing.

Chris

:biggrin1: I'm having a drink.. how about you Chris? :beer: :cocktail:

Well my head will be fine in the morning Sue--I'm sure your will be too.
Enjoy your drink.
Love Chris

Sueanne47
12th November 2016, 21:11
Apricot Brandy..leftover from last year!

:hug: < BIG HUG FROM ME oh, ..and one for BabySteps! :hug:

Daozen
13th November 2016, 00:24
This thread is negative energy foisted upon us all. Those of us who are seeing thru the veil at something hopeful and expansive not limiting and constrictive will choose to ignore. The awareness brings up an innate knowing that much of what is negative entertainment to mock and destroy a man who is genuinely trying to put our country back together again is designed with great effort to fabricate distort misinform and outright lie from the mainstream media. We were taught not to listen to them. But sometimes we need reminders.

I'm sorry to interrupt your bliss, Betty. Here is a healing picture:

http://www.images22.com/pics/02/unicorn.jpg

*

When you clean a house, you have to focus on the dirt to get each room clean. That's not negativity, it's common sense.

*

I'm not saying Trump is guilty, but the testimonies are worth listening to, and I'm wary of an alt media that's up-in-arms about the Podesta allegations, and indifferent to similar claims about Trump. Seems like there's a narrative here, it's the exact script that got Obama into office.

A lot of the posts here follow a similar pattern: Token admission that the allegations are serious, followed by dismissal of the claims using one or more debating tactics. No time to get into it now as it's Sunday morning. You've each been shown the evidence, it's 100 percent on your heads now. I shall leave you all to worship your new Messiah in peace.

Sueanne47
13th November 2016, 01:59
You like to investigate like me Daozen, I've recently been doing a bit of digging on DT *He is not all that he seems* and is NOT being honest to the people.

If he is part of the establishment and is a freemason.. nothing surprises me. (I got shot down on a youtube comment) I said "he was a freemason" someone told me "NO HE IS NOT!" I dunno for sure..

(I just listened to an Eric Jon Phelps vid on DT and he said DT "was in with all the high Knights, and is a high level 33 degree mason")

exponentialist
13th November 2016, 05:42
This thread is negative energy foisted upon us all. Those of us who are seeing thru the veil at something hopeful and expansive not limiting and constrictive will choose to ignore. The awareness brings up an innate knowing that much of what is negative entertainment to mock and destroy a man who is genuinely trying to put our country back together again is designed with great effort to fabricate distort misinform and outright lie from the mainstream media. We were taught not to listen to them. But sometimes we need reminders.

I'm going to jump in on this despite my better judgment. The negative energy of which you speak exists because DT is a rapist. He "foisted" the energy you speak of. You just want to transfer it to the victim(s) because that's easier for you to live with, given your current belief system.

As someone who's worked with victims of sexual assault and violence for over 40 years, I am qualified to speak. DT has admitted, on tape, that he is a sexual predator. Some call it other things - locker room talk, whatever - but by doing so they support rape culture. Rape culture exists because we turn a blind eye to many of our fellow humans enduring unwanted sexualized intrusion into their physical space on a routine basis. Each victim of unwanted sexual assault reels from the experience, is disempowered, loses their voice, is hamstrung, and is less able to engage in their own evolutionary path. We all lose when this happens.

As someone who follows the law of one, I approach you, Bettye198, with compassion. I see you as an other-self, and a co-creator. Much respect to you for your passion, but I do ask that you open your eyes, and feel compassion for many members of the human race who need to speak their truth. It's all about power and control. I'd like to see each individual have a genuine choice about whether they're in control of their own self. DT wants control and power over anything other than himself... if you chose to turn yours over to him, that's your choice too, but it might not serve you well in the long run.

Ultima Thule
13th November 2016, 06:11
How about not jumping on the "rapist" -bandwagon just yet - I am sure that a wait and see -attitude is better. Spinning the opinion in any and all ways possible against DT is strongly on the agenda. Let's give it some time - especially since the opponent has been accused on the record of rape also. Both accusations may be rightful, one or the other may be correct or neither may be correct. What I am 99% sure is that none of us in this conversation know.

What we DO AND MUST KNOW, is that an accusation like rape, that brings up the feeling of disgust, is the very thing that is the most efficient way to turn a person from an ingroup-member to an outgroup-derelict + a victim of a lynch mob. That is exactly what the media will try their best to accomplish. Please hold your judgement - what is there to lose by doing that? Decades of time to resent, if you later so choose.

UT

Paul
13th November 2016, 11:14
Well said, Ultima Thule. Thanks.

greybeard
13th November 2016, 11:32
An attitude of wait and see --shows maturity.
How many times have I thought that something was true only to find i had only part of the story and that the reverse was true.

So easy to point the finger on some one else's say so.
People can have an agenda.

Chris

jaybee
13th November 2016, 11:36
This thread is negative energy foisted upon us all. Those of us who are seeing thru the veil at something hopeful and expansive not limiting and constrictive will choose to ignore. The awareness brings up an innate knowing that much of what is negative entertainment to mock and destroy a man who is genuinely trying to put our country back together again is designed with great effort to fabricate distort misinform and outright lie from the mainstream media. We were taught not to listen to them. But sometimes we need reminders.


:thumb:

I think during the US election people have had to become quite adept at blocking the negative energy even transforming it as best they can while still staying alert to information ~ the Proud Deplorables come to mind ... that was such a laugh the way the Basket of Deplorables insult was turned into a joke -

but even the negative energy embedded into the words of a thread can try and worm it's way into the mind -

so cheers for what you said ..

.

Sueanne47
13th November 2016, 12:32
Even though bad news is deplorable, that doesnt stop us from investigating.......no matter how unpalatable it may seem!!. This is why paedophilia is rife is because people have turned a blind eye to what goes on in the church and jimmy saville. At times people do go too far and it turns into a witch hunt, only to find out the accusers were making it up, but some cases are REAL and the rapists are serial.

I hate researching freemasonry and black magic, but I do it as I have to understand what I am up against with the corruption...know your enemy.

34579

greybeard
13th November 2016, 13:15
With respect Sue.
Is any of this personal--is it happening to you right now?

There are many in depth investigations of these things --you don't have to go there.

What is good in your life and everyone else's?

Its like a slow drip self inflicted--bit by bit it lowers not only your happiness but those around you as well.

If you raise your own consciousness by focusing on that which is life supporting, you not only raise your own content with life level, but everyone else's that comes in contact with you.

Lets face it there is an enormous amount of good in the world.

If some one is raped I have great compassion for them, its their responsibility to take it to law--their parents their teacher some one who will help them deal with it--there are plenty of qualified people there to help.

If only evil is focused on then evil has won.

Some times there is tough love Sue--thats what friends are for.

Chris

jaybee
13th November 2016, 13:18
.

we must use our intuition, critical thinking and judgement in all matters -

I for one know the difference between political shenanigans and serious research on subjects that need to be addressed -

.

Daozen
13th November 2016, 14:41
.

we must use our intuition, critical thinking and judgement in all matters -

I for one know the difference between political shenanigans and serious research on subjects that need to be addressed -

.

Are you sure you do? You supported Keshe on this forum for months. There was significant evidence of fraudulent claims, dangerous electrical practices and dodgy financial dealings, and you flatly ignored them as they didn't suit the line you wanted to take.

*

If you guys want to tell yourselves that Donald Trump will save you somehow, go ahead. But the Trump-political-saviour narrative comes after dozens and dozens of lies the alt media has told itself for years. 8 years ago Obama was the white knight.

I'm not expecting anyone to jump the gun or start a lynch mob, but if someone has a serious claim against Trump, their voices deserve to be heard. As our justice system is broken, sometimes the media is their only outlet. What I'm reading from a lot of posters here comes across as moral cowardice masked as spirituality and maturity. I cannot fathom how people can convince themselves that only one candidate in an election is involved in misconduct, and the other one is clean. Both are unfit for office, in my view. Many posters here are lying to themselves and others. The public is not going to buy the Trump-is-a-White-Hat narrative, I honestly can't see that storyline holding up past Christmas.

Having said that, I am aware that whatever the current situation is, it's good to look forward, brainstorm creative solutions, and find points of agreement, so I will do that... but please, no lectures about spirituality and positivity... *everyone* deserves a voice, everyone has a right to be heard.

Daozen
13th November 2016, 15:07
P.S.

Want to know what's really weird?

bettye198 *started the thread* on the Clinton pedophilia scandal. But apparently allegations against Trump are "negative". Lucidity, Cider Somerset and neutronstar are similarly up in arms over the Clinton story, yet dismissive of anything against Trump.

I know you guys can talk your way out of this... but... there's a clear agenda here.

Talk about selective blindness.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94225-Clinton-Pedophilia-Ring

jaybee
13th November 2016, 15:09
Are you sure you do? You supported Keshe on this forum for months. There was significant evidence of fraudulent claims, dangerous electrical practices and dodgy financial dealings, and you flatly ignored them as they didn't suit the line you wanted to take.


:)

that was so predictable - I knew you would say something like that and you did not let me down lol

like I said I know political shenanigans when I see it -

like that woman who was on the Apprentice with Trump doing her fake crying on telly -

.

KiwiElf
13th November 2016, 15:16
One alleged and unsubstantiated accusation against Trump, versus this; (speaking of Keshe)... all linked back to Podesta & the Clintons... confirmed, thanks to WikiLeaks & VT

Talk about molehill compared to a mountain...

VT Exclusive: Largest Pedophile Ring in History, 70,000 Members, Heads of State, the Rats Scramble

By Gordon Duff, Senior Editor on August 24, 2016

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/08/24/vt-exclusive-largest-pedophile-ring-in-history-70000-members-heads-of-state-the-rats-scramble/

VT and Keshe take the lead in breaking the most insidious human trafficking gang on the planet

Millions read the news today, the pedophile ring “busted” or the earlier article about how the FBI actually ran it for several weeks, expanding it, drawing in tens of thousands. Those who read it thought they knew, thought they were getting the story but as is so often the case, the truth goes so much further.

When Veterans Today tied the murder of Supreme Court Justice Anthony Scalia to a White House blackmail plot and a strange tale involving the Keshe Foundation, it became clear that the highest and most powerful in Europe, the US and around the world, were tied together in a web of ritual child abuse on a massive scale. For the Scalia tale, refer to Appendix I.

Today’s story is one more aspect of this. VT’s involvement goes back to 1991 when key VT staffers worked for America’s intelligence community. A GOP high level staffer approached the CIA claiming that President George H.W. Bush was being blackmailed. It was said that the President was at a political fundraiser in St. Louis where, unknown to the President, top GOP campaign donors were having sex with young males, some of whom had been spirited away from Boys Town in Nebraska of Father Flanagan fame.

Full article, images etc at link

greybeard
13th November 2016, 15:36
The TPTB most fear spirituality and a positive attitude--jut saying.
News is just that, its when assumptions are made with emotion without much evidence as to validity that the new turns into a tool for the PTB
One video can present one point of view and another a totally different point of view.
Thats what they represent, points of view designed to promote separatism.
People take sides.
Nothing is what it initially seems to be.
Media including U tube is owned by TPTB

Wait and see what comes of all this--is what I suggest.

Chris

Sueanne47
13th November 2016, 16:09
I was really shocked to see these pics of roger stone!!

https://fitzinfo.wordpress.com/2016/11/08/trump-controlled-by-the-mossad-part-ii/

Also Roy Cohn looks shady..

Also here in the video, Trump has said :

"I've known Jeff for 15 years, terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with, it is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side."

0ygLWacNRjo

neutronstar
13th November 2016, 17:15
But apparently allegations against Trump are "negative". Lucidity, Cider Somerset and neutronstar are similarly up in arms over the Clinton story, yet dismissive of anything against Trump.



http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94225-Clinton-Pedophilia-Ring

That is because I have researched this for years and I also know people that have been victims of these satanic cults, pedophillia and this kind of abuse. I know this subject very well. I know how rabid it is in our society. I also know many of the players.

But more importantly I know not to accuse someone until I have sufficient evidence.

Many men that are rich and famous have women more than willing to do whatever they want to get a piece of their fortune. They are like wolves hovering around these men, so there are always two sides to a story, understand that. That is not making excuses for these men, it is just a fact.

Trump brought this subject to light. That is something a pedo never does. This is the most guarded secret to the people in power. That raises a big red flag to me when people now want to accuse him of it. This is not proof he is innocent, but it does make me question these claim against him.

If you have research this subject you will know that the Bush's and Clinton's are neck deep in this s**t. I have known this for many years.

bettye198
13th November 2016, 21:18
P.S.

Want to know what's really weird?

bettye198 *started the thread* on the Clinton pedophilia scandal. But apparently allegations against Trump are "negative". Lucidity, Cider Somerset and neutronstar are similarly up in arms over the Clinton story, yet dismissive of anything against Trump.

I know you guys can talk your way out of this... but... there's a clear agenda here.

Talk about selective blindness.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94225-Clinton-Pedophilia-Ring

Here is the thing. That thread came on the heels of Wikileaks, a veritable announcement from other intelligence and I posted it for worth and information. Knowledge is information. With that, a person could go mad with frenzy or make decisions with a working conscience. That was my intent. Further, we have been pounded with crime after crime of the opponent with evidence, yet we have no evidence on our President Elect. That charge in 1994 was dropped as inconclusive. Sometimes we see that as people associate with the wrong crowd. But until evidence appears of that, I will remain positive.

I am not airy fairy of all that goes on behind the scenes . . . if you check most of my posts you will notice I am most of the time, a person of research and study. What I do know is decades ago I studied the Clintons and their nefarious dealings and behaviors behind closed doors. If you wish to check it: David Icke wrote about it in his book but that was just one example.

I happen to be a person who wants to believe all is good, that most of us have a shining good streak that will save us from the dark associations but then something like a thunder blast changes my view.

I also believe those who professionally deal with abuse and rape do know their craft but each individual must be studied, each story must be researched fully to condemn one. We learned thru this time period that Trump was inappropriate with women. Yet the stories near the election day make me really wonder, that Gloria Allred could drum up the mouthpieces of women which were already before the actual election day dismissed as bought and paid for. An desperate attempt to color the election.

I have lived long enough to know that there will always be the arrow of darkness pointed at the good doers.

KiwiElf
14th November 2016, 00:15
P.S.

Want to know what's really weird?

bettye198 *started the thread* on the Clinton pedophilia scandal. But apparently allegations against Trump are "negative". Lucidity, Cider Somerset and neutronstar are similarly up in arms over the Clinton story, yet dismissive of anything against Trump.

I know you guys can talk your way out of this... but... there's a clear agenda here.

Talk about selective blindness.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94225-Clinton-Pedophilia-Ring

Here is the thing. That thread came on the heels of Wikileaks, a veritable announcement from other intelligence and I posted it for worth and information. Knowledge is information. With that, a person could go mad with frenzy or make decisions with a working conscience. That was my intent. Further, we have been pounded with crime after crime of the opponent with evidence, yet we have no evidence on our President Elect. That charge in 1994 was dropped as inconclusive. Sometimes we see that as people associate with the wrong crowd. But until evidence appears of that, I will remain positive.

I am not airy fairy of all that goes on behind the scenes . . . if you check most of my posts you will notice I am most of the time, a person of research and study. What I do know is decades ago I studied the Clintons and their nefarious dealings and behaviors behind closed doors. If you wish to check it: David Icke wrote about it in his book but that was just one example.

I happen to be a person who wants to believe all is good, that most of us have a shining good streak that will save us from the dark associations but then something like a thunder blast changes my view.

I also believe those who professionally deal with abuse and rape do know their craft but each individual must be studied, each story must be researched fully to condemn one. We learned thru this time period that Trump was inappropriate with women. Yet the stories near the election day make me really wonder, that Gloria Allred could drum up the mouthpieces of women which were already before the actual election day dismissed as bought and paid for. An desperate attempt to color the election.

I have lived long enough to know that there will always be the arrow of darkness pointed at the good doers.

Wikileaks have nothing on Trump Daozen and have stated so... no "apparently" about it. During the FBI insider leak some months ago, the "informant" remarked that Trump had done some questionable business dealings but nothing other than that.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?91807-Alleged-FBI-Insider-Leaks-All-Clinton-Foundation-Exposed-Involves-Entire-US-Government

Selective Perception (or Blindness as you refer to it) works both ways...

7alon
15th November 2016, 02:41
I appreciate Daozen's suspicions, I myself have previously stated that I want to know why Trump was on Epstein's plane. There could be people that have been on his plane, on his island without knowledge of certain activities, but I don't know. I guess we can only see how things will play out with Trump. His actions will determine his integrity.

exponentialist
15th November 2016, 05:58
How about not jumping on the "rapist" -bandwagon just yet - I am sure that a wait and see -attitude is better. Spinning the opinion in any and all ways possible against DT is strongly on the agenda. Let's give it some time - especially since the opponent has been accused on the record of rape also. Both accusations may be rightful, one or the other may be correct or neither may be correct. What I am 99% sure is that none of us in this conversation know.

What we DO AND MUST KNOW, is that an accusation like rape, that brings up the feeling of disgust, is the very thing that is the most efficient way to turn a person from an ingroup-member to an outgroup-derelict + a victim of a lynch mob. That is exactly what the media will try their best to accomplish. Please hold your judgement - what is there to lose by doing that? Decades of time to resent, if you later so choose.

UT

I couldn't be more disappointed in this forum. Wow, I have decades of time to resent? Sorry, already been there, done that. Greybeard, you icon of zen, wtf? Do you not all see the message here? I give up.

greybeard
15th November 2016, 09:29
How about not jumping on the "rapist" -bandwagon just yet - I am sure that a wait and see -attitude is better. Spinning the opinion in any and all ways possible against DT is strongly on the agenda. Let's give it some time - especially since the opponent has been accused on the record of rape also. Both accusations may be rightful, one or the other may be correct or neither may be correct. What I am 99% sure is that none of us in this conversation know.

What we DO AND MUST KNOW, is that an accusation like rape, that brings up the feeling of disgust, is the very thing that is the most efficient way to turn a person from an ingroup-member to an outgroup-derelict + a victim of a lynch mob. That is exactly what the media will try their best to accomplish. Please hold your judgement - what is there to lose by doing that? Decades of time to resent, if you later so choose.

UT

I couldn't be more disappointed in this forum. Wow, I have decades of time to resent? Sorry, already been there, done that. Greybeard, you icon of zen, wtf? Do you not all see the message here? I give up.

Im not an icon of anything --laughing.

I suppose i am open minded--things come under the heading of "maybe so." until there is proof.
Taking sides a waste of time to my mind-- but people have the right to do that.

My understanding is that "The Universe" is self balancing--no one gets away with anything--nothing goes un noticed.
Its not a judgment--the hand of God does not descend on "Wrong doers" for every action there are consequences--its that simple.

All this will run out of steam, then what next will grab the attention?

Chris

Ultima Thule
15th November 2016, 09:36
How about not jumping on the "rapist" -bandwagon just yet - I am sure that a wait and see -attitude is better. Spinning the opinion in any and all ways possible against DT is strongly on the agenda. Let's give it some time - especially since the opponent has been accused on the record of rape also. Both accusations may be rightful, one or the other may be correct or neither may be correct. What I am 99% sure is that none of us in this conversation know.

What we DO AND MUST KNOW, is that an accusation like rape, that brings up the feeling of disgust, is the very thing that is the most efficient way to turn a person from an ingroup-member to an outgroup-derelict + a victim of a lynch mob. That is exactly what the media will try their best to accomplish. Please hold your judgement - what is there to lose by doing that? Decades of time to resent, if you later so choose.

UT

I couldn't be more disappointed in this forum. Wow, I have decades of time to resent? Sorry, already been there, done that. Greybeard, you icon of zen, wtf? Do you not all see the message here? I give up.

Can you elaborate exactly what are you disappointed in and what you give up on?
What is the message you are certain is the correct one, that should be accepted immediately and not wait to know more of the facts?

At this present moment I see this case (as I do most of stuff we discuss in here) as examples of what Daniel Kahnemann labels as the temptation of WYSIATI - what you see is all there is AND THEN acting upon that limited info and often just plain wrong conclusions. Without exception there is always more meaningful data that you don't know - oftentimes such that would flip your opinion 180 degrees if you had it.
I see an urge to lock ones opinion as a risk to fall for the WYSIATI-trap. I choose not to. That is what I mean by decades of time to resent - nothing personal towards you, my post never was personal towards anyone in particular.

As human beings, we are unbeliavably easy to manipulate with disgust, into categorical rejection of a person or a group of people - add a pinch of empathy and you vengeful, disproportionate revenge. We should not let ourselves be manipulated into that - if I later know more, then I for example can exercise resentment.

(Do check out Paul Bloom from Yale on the subject of disgust and empathy - real eye-openers)

UT

boutreality
15th November 2016, 11:57
He has apparently already selected as "finance chairman" a Skull and Bones member- host below cites AP:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kI2SyvTiPg8

"Evidence" on these issues is not going to be forthcoming, it is not likely to be comprehensive and is probably not going to be confirmed, at least not for years after the fact. It's the nature of looking into the world's power elite.

Of course, you can just picture and sense yellow, golden or white light and feel great about yourself, become compelled to share your "enlightened" view and tell everyone to keep their heads in the sand. If they're not say they're "spreading negative energy". -You can just spout any self styled regurgitation of new age schlock and wait for things to get better.

People paying attention to issues and questioning the characters of the people we are asked to accept as leaders -even as political saviors- will press on, steadfast in their pursuit.

Sierra
15th November 2016, 16:10
I seriously doubt the truth is going to come out. Why would either party accuse the other, thus putting themselves at risk?

Bottom line, they both partied with Epstein. Nough said.

And given the response to sixty women who accused Cosby of drug and rape, really seriously nough said.

We get the picture already, and some of us have seen the picture for decades, thus the assumption, no change.

Misogyny rules over truth. Yawn.

Ewan
15th November 2016, 17:33
I seriously doubt the truth is going to come out. Why would either party accuse the other, thus putting themselves at risk?

Bottom line, they both partied with Epstein. Nough said.

And given the response to sixty women who accused Cosby of drug and rape, really seriously nough said.

We get the picture already, and some of us have seen the picture for decades, thus the assumption, no change.

Misogyny rules over truth. Yawn.

Sorry Sierra but I don't think you can blame misogyny for that, there are plenty women involved also. More like an ego alliance with Mars aspects, Venus ignored.

Certain women in power are clearly more masculine than feminine and whilst a highly paid well-educated psychology major would claim they hate their feminine side, must be more masculine to succeed etc. I think it runs deeper/higher than that.

If I had to take a guess as to my own balance I think Venus would edge out over Mars, it would certainly explain how much difficulty I had understanding peer behaviour as a growing child. Then again I never understood girls either so perhaps I'd never had an Earth incarnation before. :)

TargeT
15th November 2016, 17:39
Misogyny rules over truth. Yawn.

That's your take?

I think this is another meme, pitting men against women is one of the first things done by all slave owners.

greybeard
15th November 2016, 17:49
Leaving aside rape---Lust is not misogyny.
Casanova loved women for example.

Chris

Ewan
15th November 2016, 17:53
Let's not forget Rasputin?

:)

Actually, I love women - and during a full moon it frequently arises as lust. :(

greybeard
15th November 2016, 18:36
Let's not forget Rasputin?

:)

Actually, I love women - and during a full moon it frequently arises as lust. :(


Lucky you --at my age nothing frequently arises laughing.

We are not down grading rape etc far from it..
I cant think of anything more horrific.
Happens to men/boys too.

Chris

TargeT
15th November 2016, 19:03
Let's not forget Rasputin?

:)

Actually, I love women - and during a full moon it frequently arises as lust. :(


Lucky you --at my age nothing frequently arises laughing.

We are not down grading rape etc far from it..
I cant think of anything more horrific.
Happens to men/boys too.

Chris

Uhh, it MOSTLY happens to men (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2449454/More-men-raped-US-women-including-prison-sexual-abuse.html), rape should be OUR cause, not women's.


Seriously, every single thing people(average citizen of the US) feel strongly about turns out to be completely the opposite of reality when you dig into it... it's insane; a part of the "trap" IMO... cognitive dissonance is the ultimate form of divide and conquer.

Ewan
15th November 2016, 19:15
We are not down grading rape etc far from it..
I cant think of anything more horrific.
Happens to men/boys too.

Chris



We are not down grading rape etc far from it..

I hope nobody reading the thread even began to suspect that.

I cant think of anything more horrific.

I certainly can, I'm quite sure MiLab victims could elaborate.

Happens to men/boys too.

From what I've read it seems more likely to, at least where 'power' is involved (as opposed to loss of control).

greybeard
15th November 2016, 19:21
Let's not forget Rasputin?

:)

Actually, I love women - and during a full moon it frequently arises as lust. :(


Lucky you --at my age nothing frequently arises laughing.

We are not down grading rape etc far from it..
I cant think of anything more horrific.
Happens to men/boys too.

Chris

Uhh, it MOSTLY happens to men (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2449454/More-men-raped-US-women-including-prison-sexual-abuse.html), rape should be OUR cause, not women's.


Seriously, every single thing people(average citizen of the US) feel strongly about turns out to be completely the opposite of reality when you dig into it... it's insane; a part of the "trap" IMO... cognitive dissonance is the ultimate form of divide and conquer.

Yes TargeT I agree people are conditioned to believe the media--its very much divide and conquer --fear weakens, makes one trust "The Authority" to look after self. Ha Ha.
If that does not work buy half a dozen big guns. One would do, would it not.
Men and their "guns"

Chris

Ewan
15th November 2016, 19:25
Let's not forget Rasputin?

:)

Actually, I love women - and during a full moon it frequently arises as lust. :(


Lucky you --at my age nothing frequently arises laughing.

We are not down grading rape etc far from it..
I cant think of anything more horrific.
Happens to men/boys too.

Chris

Uhh, it MOSTLY happens to men (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2449454/More-men-raped-US-women-including-prison-sexual-abuse.html), rape should be OUR cause, not women's.


Seriously, every single thing people(average citizen of the US) feel strongly about turns out to be completely the opposite of reality when you dig into it... it's insane; a part of the "trap" IMO... cognitive dissonance is the ultimate form of divide and conquer.

I've tried, briefly, to track down a confirmation.. years ago I read an article. Chechnya, maybe Georgia.

Mercs employed by Russian forces handcuffed males to tanks and sodomised them in front of their women. Their crime? Trying to protect the women from rape.

greybeard
15th November 2016, 19:47
The confirmation on male rape is on the blue link posted by TargeT Ewan if thats what you mean

More men are raped in the US than women, figures on prison assaults reveal

In 2008 it was estimated 216,000 inmates assaulted in detention
Four per cent of prisoners said they had been sexually abused in 2011
Department of Justice introducing regulations to tackle high rates of abuse


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2449454/More-men-raped-US-women-including-prison-sexual-abuse.html#ixzz4Q6nBXUMb
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Ewan
15th November 2016, 20:08
That's not what I meant Chris. I was posting another example of male rape. :)

Brevity in text is not as effective as in speech obviously. :D

I've tried, briefly, to track down a confirmation.. years ago I read an article. <--- that was one sentence. :)

YoYoYo
15th November 2016, 20:10
...
I think this is another meme, pitting men against women is one of the first things done by all slave owners.

In good humour I say I think TargeT was right the first time. No need to fight over which geneder gets ...you know.. :blushing:
:handshake:

Sierra
15th November 2016, 20:15
Mostly happens to men? Ah. I don't think your example reflects reality, unless you are saying men will rape each other when women are not available. Given rape is usually an act of dominance, not lust, this makes sense.

greybeard
15th November 2016, 21:02
Mostly happens to men? Ah. I don't think your example reflects reality, unless you are saying men will rape each other when women are not available. Given rape is usually an act of dominance, not lust, this makes sense.

I agree with you--I think the article misleading--it might be referring to prison situations or not as the case might be.
The reality of men being raped did not occur to me till fairly recently--Ive always though it a horrendous crime against females.

Chris

TinFoilSuit
15th November 2016, 22:07
[/QUOTE]

Both are unfit for office

[/QUOTE]

I have unfortunately come to the same conclusion as Daozen. If I may, I would also add that I subscribe to Brandon Smith's opinion (from alt-market.com) - that Trump is a fake conservative, surreptitiously installed to make conservatives (or rather the "populist movement") look bad. This will be evident once "they" implode the economy next year. Not that Conservatives need any help looking bad, but what's clear is that Liberals certainly don't have a monopoly in this area. That said, I am convinced that both political parties were "infiltrated" long ago.

Nevertheless if I'm truly going to attempt to judge Trump objectively, I have to try and separate fact from rumor. But since rumors do sometimes point to truth, I can't dismiss them entirely. It's never an easy task, given all the polarizing rhetoric. Nevertheless, here is what I've observed (with my deepest apologies for being too lazy to provide source links, but I'll presume anyone can easily verify for themselves):

FACTS
- Called Jeffrey Epstein a "terrific guy" who was "fun to be with", while acknowledging that many of the women he's around are on the "younger side."
- Stated that he "probably identifies more as a Democrat."
- Called Republicans "too crazy right."
- Criticized Romney on his immigration plan during the 2012 Pres campaign, suggesting that a more lenient approach was in order.
- Quoted as being in support of nationalized health care.
- Quoted as being in support of a complete ban on "assault weapons" (which btw is a political term, and not the same meaning as "assault rifle")
- Donated to Hillary's campaigns on 4 separate occasions, donated somewhere between 100K-250K to the Clinton Foundation, as well as a $125K donation to the Dem Party.
- During Hillary's first run up for President (2007), stated "I think Hillary would do a good job."
- Invited the Clintons to his wedding in 2005, with photos surfacing of the two couples "arm in arm, laughing and gesturing."
- Has played golf with Bill Clinton, presumably on several occasions judging by his comment "I love playing golf with him."
- According to the WaPo, Bill Clinton had a private conversation with Trump in the spring of 2005. Associates from both camps alleged that Clinton encouraged Trump to "play a more prominent role" in the Republican party, although one Clinton side source denied that the conversation was anything more than a casual chat.
- His numerous quotes from the Billy Bush affair indicate a crass, frat boy like immaturity - at best. At worst, the 'sexual predator' label could possibly apply, but probably needs to be paired with more verifiable context.
- A lawsuit alleging rape of a minor was filed against him.

RUMOR
- supposedly in Epstein's 'black book'
- supposedly flew on Epstein's Lolita Express
- Chelsea and Ivanka are allegedly very close, and have been spotted together on numerous occasions in NYC.

---------------

Separate items to consider:

COMMON OPERATING TACTICS (of TPTB)
- Divide and conquer (have we ever been more divided? every election it gets worse it seems)
- Controlled opposition (could Trump be a wolf in sheep's clothing?)

HISTORY
- During the W Bush years (another fake conservative), we saw: the Tech Bubble burst, Enron, 9/11, Patriot Act, Trillions spend on Afghan/Iraq wars, Abramoff, Madoff, Great Recession, Bankster bailouts
- Note that several of these events also coincided with the last time the Republicans controlled all three power centers (Oval office, Senate & House)

Please understand I am not at all assigning blame at one party. In fact, when closely scrutinizing the data, it's apparent that 'operatives' within both parties are complicit. I'm merely pointing out that blindly assigning blame to either side that is exactly what "they" want us to do. And I truly hope I'm wrong, but I am very concerned that something extremely wicked lurks around the corner - possibly in late 2017. Let's hope that cooler heads, or perhaps 'forces' will prevail.

Much love,

TFS

Sueanne47
15th November 2016, 23:46
I'm concerned that Fascism is being pushed in America & Europe lately :

flmr7CD6pqU

exponentialist
16th November 2016, 02:43
...............................

boutreality
16th November 2016, 03:05
It's still Whigs v Torreys, it never changed- those two parties were caught so deep in corruption they changed their names, that's all. They still ALL represent aristocracy and international corporate interests, and the entire time I've been paying attention to it, they're still pulling the same shook and jive- the "this guy, not that guy"- the " he said but I did" and "my "opponent"... and whoever wins- corporate interests advance their agenda(s) EVERY TIME.

(Less than half joking): Let's make a law that stipulates that the only campaigning allowed by any candidate is to list directly the companies and people that fund their campaigns; not hidden in superPACS, but plain names- then we'll know who they're serving. - And that could have gone for any election since before the first Bush took office.

The reality of the scenario before us today is the ruling class and the rest of us. Seeing reality isn't a negative, cowering from it under the guise of an "objective wait and see" attitude is willful ignorance.

Ewan
16th November 2016, 10:31
Happens to men/boys too.

From what I've read it seems more likely to, at least where 'power' is involved (as opposed to loss of control).

I'd just like to clarify my point was in respect of underage children being abused by powerful 'beyond the law' men and women. As Sierra's comment seemed directly related to Epstein/Clinton/Trump/Lolita Express et al I was thinking of all the cases of boys homes in the UK. It wasn't a sweeping statement about the crime of rape in general.

TargeT
16th November 2016, 13:49
Mostly happens to men? Ah. I don't think your example reflects reality, unless you are saying men will rape each other when women are not available. Given rape is usually an act of dominance, not lust, this makes sense.

I agree with you--I think the article misleading--it might be referring to prison situations or not as the case might be.
The reality of men being raped did not occur to me till fairly recently--Ive always though it a horrendous crime against females.

Chris

Rape in the US is the best case for sexism I've seen. Men are the victims of systematic bias & then women are painted as the penultimate victim even though when one looks globally, men are raped far more often than women (though it's usually men and boys, so a bit worse IMO).

In the middle east there are women available to rape, yet men are the most common victim & certain male on boy actions aren't even considered rape, not really; by the culture there.


So in reality the victim-hood that women uphold in the US is not realistic globally (or even in the US...).


Over the last four decades, rape has been declining. According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, the adjusted per-capita victimization rate of rape has declined from about 2.4 per 1000 people (age 12 and above) in 1980 (that is, 2.4 persons from each 1000 people 12 and older were raped during that year) to about 0.4 per 1000 people, a decline of about 85%. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_United_States)

So rape & rape culture is the new big meme (with women at the center of victim-hood) when rape is down to .04%? And men aren't really mentioned except as perpetrators? (no rape, regardless of the victim, is acceptable and that number should be zero)

Take a look at the "RAPE IN THE USA" wiki page, notice how men are mentioned maybe once or twice as victims with little to no tracked statistics?


This is the clearest example of sexism I've seen, and it's completely counter to the popular "rape" meme's that are floating around these days.


Now I press this point to emphasis my earlier one:



I think this is another meme, pitting men against women is one of the first things done by all slave owners.

It's not only an injected divide and conquer meme, but it's also factually untrue, it appears that the opposite is true.

Which OMG makes for a great divide and conquer tactic... I certainly resent the fact that men (me) are both the main victim, which is either completely ignored or extremely downplayed, and the perpetrator; yet only ever treated as the perpetrator.

I am not a rapist, and I don't know any; I am statistically more likely to be raped & I'm tired of being lumped in with the "bad guys" on this one (proof the divide and conquer tactic is working, IMO).


I'm concerned that Fascism is being pushed in America & Europe lately :


Oh they've been fascist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism) for years though maybe a bit more of a corporatocracy. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatocracy). maybe a mix of the two. Either way companies and lobbyists have too much influence in government.

Trump isn't going to be any worse than Obama was, nothing to worry about (other than what you already should be worrying about.. haha).

Sierra
16th November 2016, 18:02
Statistically more likely to be raped? Divide and conquer goes both ways... trivialize, normalize... Misogyny trumps truth, again?

* On average, there are 288,820 victims (age 12 or older) of rape and sexual assault each year in the United States.
* Ages 12-34 are the highest risk years for rape and sexual assault.3
* Those age 65 and older are 92% less likely than 12-24 year olds to be a victim of rape or sexual assault, and 83% less likely than 25-49 year olds.4

Millions of women in the United States have experienced rape.
* As of 1998, an estimated 17.7 million American women had been victims of attempted or completed rape.5 

Young women are especially at risk.
* 82% of all juvenile victims are female. 90% of adult rape victims are female.6
* Females ages 16-19 are 4 times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault.3
* Women ages 18-24 who are college students are 3 times more likely than women in general to experience sexual violence. Females of the same age who are not enrolled in college are 4 times more likely.7

Millions of men in the United States have been victims of rape.
* As of 1998, 2.78 million men in the U.S. had been victims of attempted or completed rape.5
* About 3% of American men—or 1 in 33—have experienced an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime.5
* 1 out of every 10 rape victims are male.8

21% of TGQN (transgender, genderqueer, nonconforming) college students have been sexually assaulted, compared to 18% of non-TGQN females, and 4% of non-TGQN males.17

How Often Does Sexual Assault Occur in the United States?
* Every two minutes another American is sexually assaulted.

Men, Women, and Children Are All Affected by Sexual Violence
* 1 out of every 6 American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime (14.8% completed, 2.8% attempted).4
* About 3% of American men—or 1 in 33—have experienced an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime.4
* From 2009-2013, Child Protective Services agencies substantiated, or found strong evidence to indicate that, 63,000 children a year were victims of sexual abuse.5
* A majority of child victims are 12-17. Of victims under the age of 18:
* 34% of victims of sexual assault and rape are under age 12.6
* 66% of victims of sexual assault and rape are age 12-17.6

Child Sexual Abuse Is a Widespread Problem

From 2009-2013, Child Protective Services agencies substantiated, or found strong evidence to indicate that, 63,000 children a year were victims of sexual abuse.6

* One in 9 girls and 1 in 53 boys under the age of 18 experience sexual abuse or assault at the hands of an adult.3
* 82% of all victims under 18 are female.4
* Females ages 16-19 are 4 times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault.2

The effects of child sexual abuse can be long-lasting and affect the victim's mental health. Victims are more likely than non-victims to experience the following mental health challenges:5

* About 4 times more likely to develop symptoms of drug abuse
* About 4 times more likely to experience PTSD as adults
* About 3 times more likely to experience a major depressive episode as adults

Perpetrators of Child Sexual Abuse Are Often Related to the Victim (same with women, usually domestic violence)
Out of the yearly 63,000 sexual abuse cases substatiated, or found strong evidence, by Child Protective Services (CPS),6 the perpetrator was most often the parent:1
* 80% of perpetrators were a parent
* 6% were other relatives
* 5% were "other" (from siblings to strangers)
* 4% were unmarried partners of a parent
* Out of the sexual abuse cases reported to CPS in 2013, 47,000 men and 5,000 women were the alleged perpetrators.6
* In 88% of the sexual abuse claims that CPS substantiates or finds supporting evidence of, the perpetrator is male. In 9% of cases they are female, and 3% are unknown.6

The Majority of Sexual Assaults Occur At or Near the Victim's Home
What was the survivor doing when the crime occured?7
* 48% were sleeping, or performing another activity at home
* 29% were traveling to and from work or school, or traveling to shop or run errands
* 12% were working
* 7% were attending school
* 5% were doing an unknown or other activity

And the good news...

Sexual Violence has Fallen by More than Half Since 1993
The rate of sexual assault and rape has fallen 74% since 1993, from a rate of 4.3 assaults per 1000 people in 1993, to 1.1 per 1000 in 2014.

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/children-and-teens


And men aren't really mentioned except as perpetrators?
Given that it is usually men who rape men, women, children, babies, I think it would be a bit difficult to pin perpetuation on women. The odds are (as shown above) the least likely to be raped, the most likely to be the rapist, are men.

It is what it is.

And out in the world, changes are coming.

https://www.google.com/amp/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_582c733fe4b01d8a014b800e/amp?client=safari

An excellent movie to understand the rape culture in India, is called "India's Daughter", a documentary of an incident that Is creating change in India. The perpetrators, the defense lawyers are interviewed, truly horrific attitudes on display. The movie is available on Netflix.

TargeT
16th November 2016, 20:21
Statistically more likely to be raped? Divide and conquer goes both ways... trivialize, normalize... Misogyny trumps truth, again?


You think my post originates in Misogyny? You think that's the reason I'm pressing this point (and not for the reasons I clearly stated?)?

yes, trivialized, normalized, that's exactly what I am reading from you. Misandry sneaks its way in again.

The numbers are a bit fuzzy on all this, but all your stats above neglect to mention prison rape (The prison population is around 92.4% male (https://www.quora.com/Are-more-men-than-women-raped-in-the-U-S)) & we currently have some 2million+ people in prison (According to the US Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), 2,220,300 adults were incarcerated in US federal and state prisons, and county jails in 2013).

Men don't have a problem, women do. right?


Rape is a problem, but its not a "women problem" its a people problem; polarizing the issue is unfair to half (or more, I think more, especially now 2015+) of the victims. There are over 2 billion Islam followers & all of the islamic countries I visited had very open man on boy rape culture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi)... its a very common thing, this leads me to think that there is a large large section of male on male rape that goes completely ignored. Its so culturally strong that an islamic man just got out of rape charges because of it... (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3767301/Muslim-refugee-20-raped-10-year-old-boy-bedroom-claimed-culturally-acceptable-sexually-assault-children-homeland.html)

Did you know that globally there is 1 male rape center (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3277006/Sweden-opened-world-s-rape-centre-male-sexual-violence-victims.html) (and it opened last year).. 1 in the WORLD..

Can you not see the perspective I'm putting forward? Its hard to read your responses and not see you as misandrist.


(IMO) We need to RE-establish gender roles, men are no longer men and women are no longer women... and we are all sadder for it.

Great break down on this divisive issue (and this is where all the power of "rape accusations" comes from):
pA2TWyndvis

Paul
16th November 2016, 21:32
Can you not see the perspective I'm putting forward? Its hard to read your responses and not see you as misandrist.
Allow forbearance unto others for the idiosyncracies of their thoughts, as you would have them allow such unto you.

TargeT
16th November 2016, 21:55
Can you not see the perspective I'm putting forward? Its hard to read your responses and not see you as misandrist.
Allow forbearance unto others for the idiosyncracies of their thoughts, as you would have them allow such unto you.

That's why there is a request for clarification, instead of absolute labeling or even suggestive labeling (both more common, and attention getting way to communicate).

Shutting someone up, marginalizing them or writing them off by labeling them or their ideas as racist or sexist (or associating them with atrocities, Holocaust, rape etc..) has got to stop. We saw FRANTIC attempts to do this in the current election (this entire thread is based on it), it's a very common version of the most popular logical fallacy (ad hominem) which cause ripple effects of division and poisons interpersonal relationships. Not only that but overuse fatigues terms, it normalizes them.. they are applied so often and widely its hard to even tell why they are applied at times... it's a mental gerbil wheel.

Sierra
16th November 2016, 22:14
Sorry you are so stressed out and emotional, Target, but I'm giving my sources for the general statistics in the US, not specific isolated populations such as prisons and bacha bazi boys. The statistics do not bear out your POV, and calling me a misandrist for quoting these statistics does not cause me to put on my thinking cap.

I did list the rape statistics for men, see my previous post. I also gave sources to describe the problem in other countries. In neither case is there evidence that supports your premise that more men are being raped than women. It's all very well to say oh it's more, and then call me a misandrist, with no supporting statistics for your point of view

Yes, I know about the Islamic culture of which you only focus on the bacha bazi boys, but not the eight year old girls forced to marry old men, a particular nasty form of rape on children. Of course there is bacha bazi just as there is the rape of men on men in prisons, both environments are symptomatic of the unavailability of women.

Islamic men usually can't marry until their late forties, it takes them that long to gather the wealth needed to support a family. As well, many gravitate to homosexuality (I've read 40% of the middle eastern male population is homosexual, a result of centuries of culture where women are unavailable until late age) and it may be where it is the only place a man can have an intimate relationship as between equals, given the extreme contempt for women built into the Koran/Wahabi/Sharia teachings. Screwing a terrified female, dumbed down, and shut up since birth is probably tiring after awhile. More contempt ensues, I'm sure, given human nature. But as the Koran says, women are as cattle, good for breeding sons.

That is why I say misogyny trumps truth. Holocaust? Frantic? Has to do with the election? Perhaps in that this election has shown us a few hard truths about us, and how far we have to go.

If I were frantic, I'd quote the similarities between Trump, and Hitler. Next, I'd point out if you see brown shirts in the streets, and you are not a white male intent on oppressing women and all minorities (surely Trump's agenda is visible to you? His appointments? His saying, "Stop it, if that helps.", when referring to violence by his supporters on the streets?) it might behoove one to leave the country that apparently some of us love in an entirely politically incorrect manner, that no longer counts.
34602

If more men are being raped than women, children, babies, then again, the issue is the male rapists, not women who object to male rapists given a free pass by our culture.



"Women are for child-rearing, boys are for pleasure" is a common saying across many parts of Afghanistan.

The ancient custom, banned under the Taliban's 1996-2001 rule, has seen a resurgence in recent years. It is said to be widespread across southern and eastern Afghanistan's rural Pashtun heartland, and with ethnic Tajiks across the northern countryside.

Powerful warlords, commanders, politicians and other members of the elite often keep "bachas" as a symbol of authority and affluence.

Bachas, dressed as women, are widely used by these men as dancers at private parties and are sexually exploited.

Bacha bazi is not widely seen as homosexual behaviour -- popularly demonised as a deviant sexual act, prohibited in Islam -- and is largely accepted as a cultural practice.

How has it been allowed to flourish?

Tight gender segregation in Afghan society and lack of contact with women have contributed to the spread of bacha bazi, rights groups say.

Several other factors such as an absence of the rule of law, corruption, limited access to justice, illiteracy, poverty, insecurity, and the existence of armed groups have also resulted in the spread of bacha bazi, the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission (AIHRC) said in a report in 2014.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-3648799/Bacha-bazi-Afghan-subculture-child-sex-slaves.html

Paul
16th November 2016, 22:35
Can you not see the perspective I'm putting forward? Its hard to read your responses and not see you as misandrist.
Allow forbearance unto others for the idiosyncracies of their thoughts, as you would have them allow such unto you.

That's why there is a request for clarification, instead of absolute labeling or even suggestive labeling (both more common, and attention getting way to communicate).
Was I misreading you, then, when I read your statement "Its hard to read your responses and not see you as misandrist." as suggesing a labeling of misandrist?

TargeT
16th November 2016, 23:05
Yes, I know about the Islamic culture of which you only focus on the bacha bazi boys, but not the eight year old girls forced to marry old men, a particular nasty form of rape on children. Of course there is bacha bazi just as there is the rape of men on men in prisons, both environments are symptomatic of the unavailability of women.
Islamic men usually can't marry until their late forties, it takes them that long to gather the wealth needed to support a family. As well, many gravitate to homosexuality

So it's not the physical availability of women, it doesn't center around women at all except that they are easier targets; interesting take.It makes sense, as people with strongly held beliefs will go against rationality in thought AND action; and there are few people with more strongly held beliefs than fundamentalist Islamists.


That is why I say misogyny trumps truth.

Yeah, I still don't really understand. By your above example it appears it may have little to do with women except as targets of convenience.


Holocaust? Frantic? Has to do with the election?

Lots of equating trump to hilter, logical connection to holocaust, fascism etc... all kinds of accusations with no real backing (which I deemed to be frantic, maybe it's just lazy journalism)


Perhaps in that this election has shown us a few hard truths about us, and how far we have to go.
Ahh, lost me again.

Go where?


If I were frantic, I'd quote the similarities between Trump, and Hitler.

Yeah! that's what I meant.




surely Trump's agenda is visible to you? His appointments? His saying, "Stop it, if that helps.", when referring to violence by his supporters on the streets?

I have yet to see any proof of trump protesters being violent, but even if they were... how the hell is trump suppose to do anything about that. He doesn't control people nor encourage violence.. "if that helps" is a very intelligent way of saying the request is stupid because it won't do anything.

That pic you posted of Trump 'n Hilter, I used that example as an EXTREME, you must believe in it.. wow, I guess we see things very differently, I've yet to see a single thing that is racist OR sexist from Trump... he does NOT want mass deportation.. I mean that entire picture is just factually baffling.

This discussion and how it's developing is exactly what I'm talking about.

Facts vs Feels (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA2TWyndvis) for sure.


male rapists given a free pass by our culture

Really? here's where I get my "misandry" thoughts from. I'm pretty sure there are laws, and rapists are among the most despised in our culture.. so much so that the term "rape" has been applied to situations widely where someone is taking advantage of another.... Even a HINT of misconduct to a women in a bar brings the guys like flies to crush the perpetrator.

Maybe I grew up in different times, it's 2016, what the ARE you talking about?




"Women are for child-rearing, boys are for pleasure" is a common saying across many parts of Afghanistan.

....
Bacha bazi is not widely seen as homosexual behaviour -- popularly demonised as a deviant sexual act, prohibited in Islam -- and is largely accepted as a cultural practice.

How has it been allowed to flourish?



Not just Afghanistan, I saw it in Iraq as well, but no dressing up, just men and boys... Eventually they learned not to let us see it, but the "Tent" was just moved further back.


when I read your statement "Its hard to read your responses and not see you as misandrist." as suggesing a labeling of misandrist?

Not sure how else to state that, I'm probably projecting the contempt I"m reading from her posts, I was just trying to see if she'd come to a middle ground of saying "yes, men are victims too" instead of pushing the "men are perpetrators" side of the issue.

Had to come strait out and say it, at this point I'm still inclined to think there is some "Man hate" going on, or maybe its just a reaction to me. This is a very difficult topic.

Paul
17th November 2016, 04:48
This is a very difficult topic.

Agreed :).

greybeard
17th November 2016, 13:41
British woman arrested in Dubai after reporting rape

A British woman who told police in Dubai she had been raped has reportedly been charged with having extra-marital sex.

The woman in her 20s was allegedly attacked by two men from Birmingham while on holiday in the United Arab Emirates.

When she reported the incident, police arrested her and confiscated her passport, according to UAE law experts Detained in Dubai.

The woman has since been bailed but could face jail if found guilty at trial.

Radha Stirling, from the Detained in Dubai group, said the emirate's treatment of rape victims was "tremendously disturbing".

She said: "The UAE has a long history of penalising rape victims.

"It is still not safe for victims to report these crimes to the police without the risk of suffering a double punishment.

"Police regularly fail to differentiate between consensual intercourse and violent rape. Victims go to them expecting justice, and end up being prosecuted.

"They not only invalidate their victimisation, they actually punish them for it."

A Foreign Office spokeswoman said: "We are supporting a British woman in relation to this case and will remain in contact with her family."


https://uk.yahoo.com/news/british-woman-arrested-dubai-reporting-rape-090300939.html

We might be a little of original topic but I feel the various posts are valuable and educational
Im learning.

Chris

Sierra
17th November 2016, 20:55
I have yet to see any proof of trump protesters being violent.

Violent Trump Protesters

When things are said that are not true, correction is a valid response. No violence by Trump supporters? Are you serious? A simple google request will tell you otherwise.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/03/02/a_list_of_violent_incidents_at_donald_trump_rallie s_and_events.html
(Check out the video of a black man sucker punched by a security guard. The black guy fought back, and was arrested. Was the security guard arrested? No.)

http://www.ibtimes.com/trump-nation-whites-only-20-horrific-acts-violence-against-minorities-president-2446458
(Either this link or the next, tells of a man arrested for speeding up a truck through a crowd of non Trump supporters.)

http://www.salon.com/2016/11/15/violent-anti-donald-trump-protests-met-with-violence-from-trump-supporters/

http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/10/violence-committed-against-women-by-trump-supporters.html
(Man Says, “I Can’t Wait Until Trump Gets Elected So I Can Force Bitches Like You Down on Your Knees” — October 2016
Writer Sara Nović shared a screenshot of a text message from her younger sister, in which she described being pestered by a man in Penn Station until she told him, “I don’t mean to be rude at all, but I’m just not interested.” (She also explained she had a boyfriend already, was very tired having just gotten off work etc. was very polite to no avail.) He reportedly replied, “Wooowww, ****ing bitch! I can’t wait until Trump gets elected so I can force bitches like you down on your knees when you talk like that.”)

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/trump-supporters-hate-map-tracing-acts-harrassment-and-violence-rallies-coast-coast
Two examples:
Kansas: Two Muslim and Hispanic students in Kansas are violently attacked by a man who makes racist threats and warns them Donald Trump would win the presidential election. The man calls the students "brown trash" and tells him, "Go home. Trump will win.’” The man also tells the students they had better leave the U.S. As they start calling the police, the man gets back on his motorcycle and circles around them saying, "Trump, Trump, Trump, we will make America great again. You losers will be thrown out of the wall.”

Nevada: At a campaign rally in Las Vegas, Trump supporters gleefully watched as gun control supporters and Black Lives Matter demonstrators were physically dragged out of his event by security. As one man was dragged away, Trump supporters yelled, “Shoot him! Kick his ass,” and “Light the motherf***er on fire!” A large, middle-aged man shouted, “Sieg heil!” (a Nazi salute). “He’s a Muslim!” another man said. “He’s a Muslim!”

"Listen to the crowd. There’s no violence. It’s a media fabrication," Republican frontrunner Donald Trump told People magazine. He calls his rallies "love fests."


A 15-year-old girl was groped at a Trump rally in Janesville, Wisconsin. When she protested, she was maced by another audience member. The crowd taunted her and cheered her attackers.
The n-word is often heard at Trump rallies, along with racist terms like "****** lover."
Protesters have been physically manhandled and dragged out of Trump rallies while Trump cheered on the manhandlers.
Protesters have had their hair pulled by Trump supporters.
Protesters have been sucker-punched by Trump supporters.
An AP photographer was choked by a Trump security guard.
Reporter Michelle Fields was manhandled and bruised by Trump's campaign manager, who was latter arrested for battery.
Trump told security to eject a Burlington protester and to confiscate the heckler’s coat, sending him into the Vermont winter without protection: "You know it’s about ten degrees below zero outside," he gleefully enthused.
TIME photographer Chris Morris was placed in a choke-hold and slammed onto a table during a rally in Virginia, after he attempted to step outside of the press pen to photograph some protesters. The Department of Homeland Security inspector general is currently investigating the incident.
After a Trump supporter sucker-punched protester Rakeem Jones and threatened to "kill him" next time, Trump said: "He obviously loves this country and maybe he doesn't like seeing what's happening to the country."
Trump told a Cedar Rapids crowd to "... knock the crap out of 'em, would you? Seriously. Okay? Just knock the hell — I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees. I promise. I promise."
During a protest in Warren, Michigan, Trump said of a protester: "Get him out. Try not to hurt him. If you do I'll defend you in court."
During a rally in Fayetteville, North Carolina, Trump said: "In the good old days, this doesn't happen, because they used to treat them very, very rough. We've become very weak."
After a Trump supporter punched and choked a protester at a rally in Birmingham, Trump said: "maybe he deserved to get roughed up."
In Las Vegas, Trump was not happy to see a protester being escorted away peacefully: "The guards are being very gentle with him," Trump said. "I'd like to punch him in the face, I'll tell you that."
"We're not allowed to punch back any more," Trump lamented in Las Vegas. But a security guard denied that the protester had thrown any punches, saying Trump was "over-exaggerating."

Trump continued his tirade: "I love the old days. You know what they used to do to guys like that in a place like this? They'd be carried out on a stretcher, folks."

Jordan Ray Correll's comments about his experience at a Donald Trump rally in Fayetteville, North Carolina:

Trump basically said the same few things the whole time. He mentioned his wall several times. About five or six if I can remember correctly. He mentioned ISIS several times. About ten. But not exactly how to stop ISIS. Just comments like, "We're gonna get ISIS," and "ISIS is going down." Blanket statements. He did say that for America to win again ... we have to go outside of the law and he isn't afraid to do it. And that was all he said on policy. Completely void of content or substance. Just statements that would get the crowd cheering.

But out of everything I saw, the crowd was the worst part. I have never seen more hateful people in my life. Everyone was just filled with so much hatred. If a protester had a sign, even the peaceful ones, they would take the sign from them, rip it up, and throw it back at the protesters. Whenever a protester would get removed, the crowd would yell horrible things. Once, after a protester was removed, Trump said, "Where are these people coming from? Who are they?" A lady, sitting not 5 feet from me, said, "Well hopefully when you're president, you'll get rid of em all!" Get rid of them? Get rid of anyone who opposes Trump? It was sickening. I felt truly nauseous. And these people loved the protesters. They loved the drama and the chaos. And Trump fed upon it.. It was easily one of the strangest and uncomfortable things I've ever witnessed. I could just hear the horrible things being spoken around me and it made my skin crawl.

A new report published by Georgetown University’s Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding has documented an upsurge in violence against Muslims in the United States coinciding with the 2016 election campaign. The major uptick in hate crimes dates back toward the end of 2015, which corresponds with Donald Trump’s call for a ban on Muslims entering the United States.

Donald Trump excuses and condones acts of violence by saying that his followers have "tremendous love and passion for the country." He says they "have anger that's unbelievable," as if that somehow explains violence. He claims they "love this country" and says their "great love for the country" is "a beautiful thing in many respects." But millions of other Americans manage to love their country without beating up people with different political views.

Here are some of the potty words employed by Donald Trump to describe women, his rivals and his critics: pussy, bimbo, gold digger, ugly, grotesque, "real killers," "brain dead puppets," crude, rude, obnoxious, strident, dumb, fat, "fat pigs," slobs, disgraceful, disgusting, "disgusting animals," "unattractive both inside and out," dogs, "sweating like a dog," "face of a dog," "cheated like a dog," "barking like a dog," sleaze, sleazy, sleazebag, scum, perv, nasty, slime, slimy, sick, pathetic, unstable, "totally unstable individual," pathological, deviant, "basket case," "mental problem," choker, lightweight, "lightweight choker," "choke artist," "nervous wreck," weak, "weak as a baby," weakest, "little boy," "no chance," overrated, loser, "total loser," "total disaster," "low energy," liar, crazy, "lies like crazy," "the biggest liar I've ever seen," "the single biggest liar I've ever come across," dishonest, "very dishonest," moron, dope, dopey, fool, "jealous fool," "very foolish," worthless, stiff, "total stiff," "major inferiority complex," "truly weird," "spoiled brat," "without a properly functioning brain," "got schlonged," zero, thugs, "a total Bush-y" and so on.

http://www.thehypertexts.com/Donald%20Trump%20Violence%20Quotes.htm

This is the kind of behavior we can expect by Trump supporters.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


... how the hell is trump suppose to do anything about that. He doesn't control people nor encourage violence..


Trump Encourages Violence

Paul Wertheimer, a crowd control specialist called the "marshal of the mosh pit" by The Washington Post, said the power to control the crowd ultimately lies with Trump. "This is no different than if he were a rock star on stage," Wertheimer said. "You can whip up the mosh pit or you can calm it down. He’s holding the mic. He’s in control."

http://www.thehypertexts.com/Donald%20Trump%20Violence%20Quotes.htm
This guy [Trump] is dangerously unhinged. And, for all the things people have said about me over the years, I should be able to spot Dangerously Unhinged.―Glenn Beck

"Grandiose narcissists…know they are superior and will seek revenge or go into a vicious rage against those who don’t treat them with respect or dare to give them negative feedback. They may openly have multiple relationships/affairs and pride themselves on how many people see how wonderful they are. They can be very aggressive and dominance-seeking without empathy or remorse." According to Harvard professor and researcher Howard Gardner, Donald Trump is a "textbook" narcissist. In fact, he fits the profile so well that clinical psychologist George Simon told Vanity Fair, "He’s so classic that I’m archiving video clips of him to use in workshops." According to the Mayo Clinic, narcissistic personality disorder is "a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others."

Trump was violent at a young age: in his book The Art of the Deal, he said that he gave his second grade music teacher a black eye and was almost expelled! When the music teacher, Charles Walker, was told that Trump was running for president, he said: "When that kid was 10, even then he was a little ****."

A childhood friend said that the young Donald was known to throw erasers at teachers and birthday cake at playmates. In tapes made by Trump's biographer Michael D'Antonio, Trump described his "lust" for fighting in high school. And according to Trump himself, he never grew up: "When I look at myself in the first grade and I look at myself now, I'm basically the same," he told D'Antonio. "The temperament is not that different."

Dennis Burnham, who was four years younger and lived around the corner from Donald, says: "Donald was known to be a bully, I was a little kid, and my parents didn’t want me beaten up." Once when she left Dennis in a playpen in a back yard adjoining the Trumps’ property, Martha Burnham returned to find Donald throwing rocks at her son. "She saw Donald standing at the fence," Dennis Burnham said, "using the playpen for target practice."

Trump spent enough time in detention, Paul Onish said, that his buddies nicknamed the punishment "DTs" — short for "Donny Trump." Steve Nachtigall, who lived nearby, said he saw Trump and a friend jump off their bikes to beat up another boy. "It’s kind of like a little video snippet that remains in my brain because I think it was so unusual and terrifying at that age," recalled Nachtigall. "He was a loudmouth bully." When young Donald was caught with a collection of switchblades, his father had him shipped off to a military academy. There, he tried to push a fellow cadet through a second-story window, but was thwarted by two other students.

If it sounds too crazy to be true, Donald Trump has used extreme strong-arm tactics before. Back in 1989, According to Michael Cohl, the tour's promoter, Trump was acting like a diva and trying to make himself the center of attention, when he had promised not to appear at the concert. In his frustration, Keith Richard pulled out a knife, slammed it on a table, and demanded that someone fire Trump, or he would do it himself. Cohl then insisted that Trump and Marla Maples leave the building, which sent Trump into a rage. Cohl has vividly described how three Trump "shtarkers" (muscle-bound goons) started to put on brass knuckles and gloves in a crystal-clear act of intimidation.

Donald Trump talks about violence with obvious relish, even glee. "I’d like to punch him in the face," Trump said of one peaceful protester. About another, he said, "I’ll beat the crap out of you," adding, "Part of the problem ... is nobody wants to hurt each other anymore." Trump even said that he'd "love" to fight 74-year-old Joe Biden! "Some things in life you could really love doing!" Trump said, sounding giddy at the thought of pounding a septuagenarian to a pulp. But, as a comedian pointed out, Trump seems more like the guy who would sit and stroke a white cat, while someone else administered the beating.

According to a national Economist/YouGov poll, when asked the main reason for Donald Trump's success with voters, by far the most popular answer (39% to 50%) was that Trump is not politically correct. According to Trump himself, not being politically correct allows him to say racist, sexist and intolerant things. Is this tinhorn strongman act the main source of his success with his "base"?

According to a recent article by Vann R. Newkirk II in The Atlantic, bigotry is Trump's "primary mode" and violence is his "central premise." Newkirk writes: "The central premise of a Trump presidency is violence, and the coercive threat of violence.

His rhetoric has been explicitly linked by prominent Republicans with tragedies such as the Charleston massacre. That the candidate himself regularly speaks threateningly about women and minorities and has prescribed violence at his own events are not facts ancillary to his candidacy, but core features of its appeal. A vote for Donald Trump is, among other things, a vote for a wide promulgation of violence.

And indeed this is exactly what we see at Trump's political rallies: visceral bigotry channeled into acts of overt violence. Trump and his supporters seem to relish both the bigotry and the violence. Trump presents himself as a Hitler-like strongman who is ready, willing and able to make the fatherland "great again" by rounding up, deporting and banning "inferior" people. Trump sounds like a Grand Wizard of the KKK, and the fact that he refused to immediately reject the endorsement of David Duke, a former Grand Wizard and the most notorious living KKK-er, says worlds about his mindset.

Target, Trump has normalized violence against American citizens who disagree with his agenda. Germans have been saying for years that the political climate in the US strongly reminds them of Germany prior to the rise of Hitler. Of course people are going to compare Trump to Hitler. The similarities are obvious, if one is willing to compare. This is why I ask, Brown Shirts next?

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... how the hell is trump suppose to do anything about that. He doesn't control people nor encourage violence..


And the violence Trump promulgates on the international front

Trump said, “I love war, in a certain way” at a November 2015 rally, also calling “the power, the devastation” of nuclear weapons “very important to me.”

Trump has also called himself the most militant person on the planet. He recently said that he won't rule out using nukes in Europe, pointing out that it's a "big place."

Trump even told Chris Matthews that he would use nukes in response to a terrorist attack... When Matthews protested, Trump asked him: "Then why are we making them? Why do we make them?" Trump cannot seem to grasp the idea that nukes are deterrents and cannot be used to retaliate to conventional attacks.

On a related note, MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough revealed that Trump, speaking with a foreign policy expert, repeatedly asked “Why can’t we use nuclear weapons?” But the basis of the worldwide stalemate on nuclear weapons is the understanding that no one can use them without risking the destruction of much or most of the earth. There will be no victors in a nuclear war, only losers.

Speaking about Kim Jong Un, the dictator of North Korea who has been accused of starving his own people, Trump said: "If you look at North Korea, this guy, I mean, he’s like a maniac, OK? And you’ve got to give him credit. He goes in, he takes over, and he’s the boss. It’s incredible! He wiped out the uncle. He wiped out this one, that one!" In July, while musing about longtime Iraqi boss Saddam Hussein, Trump waxed longingly about dictatorial powers: "He was a bad guy, really bad guy. But you know what he did well? He killed terrorists. He did that so good. They didn’t read them the rights — they didn’t talk, they were a terrorist, it was over." Trump has a history of thinking this way. In a 1990 Playboy interview, Trump even expressed his admiration for the Chinese Communist Party’s murderous crackdown on the Tiananmen Square student protest: "When the students poured into Tiananmen Square, the Chinese government almost blew it. Then they were vicious, they were horrible, but they put it down with strength. That shows you the power of strength."

One thing Trump appears to share with strongmen he admires like Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong Un is a relish for torture. One can detect what appears to be a note of glee when Trump discusses bringing back waterboarding and things "a hell of a lot worse" than waterboarding. This is despite the fact that experts have repeatedly said that torture does not produce reliable information, and other forms of interrogation are more effective. But still Trump insists that the United States must do things that are "unthinkable." And he told a crowd of supporters in Clairsville, Ohio, "I like it a lot." That is like saying, "I like pulling fingernails a lot." No one should like inflicting pain on anyone else, even if it were necessary. But torture is not necessary because it is less effective than other types of interrogation. But Trump has insisted that he will bring back torture even if it doesn't work because "they deserve it anyway."

Some people seem shocked that he embraces torture without compunction; openly admires the suppression of freedom by Chinese and Russian dictators; and shows little grasp of ethics, governance or constitutionalism, as evidenced by his insistence that the U.S. openly engage in war crimes (by killing the families of terrorists).

Or that he often seems ignorant of history and the economic benefits of free trade, dismissing the U.S. alliance and trading system that won the Cold War as "obsolete," calling regularly for punitive tariffs and insisting over and over again, "We never win anymore," as if trade were a zero-sum game (which it is not).

Or that he relishes the idea that people at his rallies punch each other, suggesting that his supporters "knock the crap out of" any disrupters. But, as Trump's biographer, I can tell you these views fundamentally define the man. And if you’re looking—or perhaps hoping—for something more, you shouldn’t expect to find it. If you are seeking reassurance that the man who could be the next president of the United States possesses a coherent political philosophy or ethical foundation other than this rather pre-Enlightenment code of behavior—that he subscribes to the ideals of the Founders, or has studied and understood American democracy, human rights and our Constitutional system—you won’t get it. Trump first became a public figure in the 1970s when, in response to charges of housing discrimination, his lawyer compared federal officials to the Gestapo. From this point on, Trump consistently showed he was willing to use threats, insults and deception not unlike the kinds of things he says about his political rivals today—if it meant getting what he wanted. His view of life resembled the Hobbesian nightmare of a "war of all against all" with little regard for the social contract that makes for peaceful communities and countries.

What other more extreme forms of torture is Trump so anxious to bring back? The CIA's discontinued ​"enhanced interrogation" program employed sleep deprivation, waterboarding, sexual humiliation, mock executions, threats to kill the children of prisoners, and other harsh techniques. It turned out that some of the people tortured were not terrorists, had done nothing wrong, and had no information to give. And torture doesn't work, as Ryan Cooper pointed out: "In fact, torture is absolute garbage for intelligence work. This fact is firmly established; look no further than Darius Rejali's massive book on torture, which is the last word on the subject."

Trump has called senior members of our military and intelligence services "stupid" because they have pointed out that torture does not produce reliable information. People being tortured will say anything to make the torture stop. A 2014 inquiry conducted by the Senate found "enhanced interrogation techniques" like waterboarding to be brutal and ineffective. Trump's "stupid people" include FBI interrogation expert Ali Soufan and Jennifer Bryson, who was an interrogator at Guantanamo Bay. Bryson said: "Torture is antithetical to effective intelligence collection. Torture is not just ineffective; it is counter-effective." She went on to explain that torture results in false information being provided to stop the pain, whereas gaining honest information requires the interrogator to appeal to the humanity of the person being questioned, and build a rapport.

http://www.thehypertexts.com/Donald%20Trump%20Violence%20Quotes.htm

TargeT
17th November 2016, 21:08
out of that enormous wall of text I saw two actual pieces of evidence and a lot of accusations. The guy shoving the other guy in the face, that was an asshole move, assault for sure (nothing compared to what I"ve seen in the opposite direction) and its not cool to punch someone (but neither of us knows the outcome on that one).

I can post dozens (that's multiple sets of 12) of videos of trump supporters being dragged from cars and beaten, just plain beat for no reason other than wearing a hat etc etc..

The evidence is extremely weighted against the DNC supporters, I guess it was there time to be violent.

pretty much everything else you posted has zero evidence connected to it and probably a high percentage of them are equatable to this:
ibN_8d62JI0
So many of these types of claims have been shown to be false, completely fabricated simply to convince people of what you are trying to convince me of (I just don't see it unless your looking with confirmation bias).

Rational thought, evidence, facts.. these are very important. Accusations with out proof are distractions.

And the most important thing is this: IT DOESNT MATTER WHO SUPPORTS CANDIDATES
the only reason to talk about supporters is to distract from real issues. it's a logical fallacy and its poison. I'm sure you're not intentionally doing it, most people don't do these things intentionally but by instinct.

Like the Title of this thread, that rape case is built on nothing but hopes an dreams, I'll bet we don't hear another thing about this as the case is quietly dismissed.

Your views on trump are pretty clear. Maybe in a few years when everything is basically like it sbeen for the last 8 years you can re-visit this.

Otherwise I"ll just agree to strongly disagree with you.

Remember: men are people to, we aren't all bad ;)

Sierra
17th November 2016, 21:10
when I read your statement "Its hard to read your responses and not see you as misandrist." as suggesing a labeling of misandrist?
Not sure how else to state that, I'm probably projecting the contempt I"m reading from her posts, I was just trying to see if she'd come to a middle ground of saying "yes, men are victims too" instead of pushing the "men are perpetrators" side of the issue.

Had to come strait out and say it, at this point I'm still inclined to think there is some "Man hate" going on, or maybe its just a reaction to me. This is a very difficult topic.

There you go, slanting the truth Target. Men were included in the rape statistics, as I pointed out to you in my next post. I point it out again, hoping you will hear me.

Man hate? No, hatred of misogyny, hatred of violence promulgated by leaders, hatred of the write off of non-whites as unworthy to be Americans, hatred and objection to torture, etc. etc. etc.

But if you wish to write me off as a man hater, rather off topic, sheesh TargeT, go for it. I will continue to point out the errors, in what you write. Don't know what to call me? See above, Trump has a few choice potty words you can use, lol.

That was gross research, and I left out a hell of a lot. I learned a lot too. I had no idea (ignored both Trump and Clinton throughout the election.) how bad it was. You bet Trump reminds me, and a lot of others (see previous post) of Hitler. Trump is scary as hell. And it is scary when people read his words and don't see how unhinged he is, and apparently he was unhinged as a child, which is very, very bad news.

Sierra
17th November 2016, 21:18
Well, Target, we see where you are at, reduced to calling someone who disagrees with you, a man hater, and we see where I am at as well.

I never said men are not good people too. Goodness is everywhere.

Now you are accusing me of saying Trump supporters did not experience violence? Quote me please.

No, I said you were wrong saying Trump supporters were not violent. That "wall" was evidence of Trump supporters being violent.

Of course there is violence. Hate begets hate. Violence begets violence. Now who started the hate rolling? Hmmm?

Yes, clearly we disagree. :)

TargeT
17th November 2016, 21:26
Well, Target, we see where you are at, reduced to calling someone who disagrees with you, a man hater, and we see where I am at as well.

Now you are accusing me of saying Trump supporters did not experience violence? Quote me please.

Of course there is violence. Hate begets hate. Violence begets violence. Now who started the hate rolling? Hmmm?

No, but you certainly have your mind set up about men. i'm careful with language, if I said your a man hater than I apologize (I'm sure I did not), I simply think your a bit biased against men based on what I've read in the last couple of days.

I don't care about supporters, think its a complete distraction and a waste of time... I don't recall saying you said trump supporters didn't experience violence.. quote me please ;)

Yes, who did start the hate rolling... Is that a question of candidates or their supporters? if it's candidates it should be easy to point out.


wasn't this about a rape accusation? (part of the tool set of division)

Sierra
17th November 2016, 21:30
Well, Target, we see where you are at, reduced to calling someone who disagrees with you, a man hater, and we see where I am at as well.

Now you are accusing me of saying Trump supporters did not experience violence? Quote me please.

Of course there is violence. Hate begets hate. Violence begets violence. Now who started the hate rolling? Hmmm?

No, but you certainly have your mind set up about men. i'm careful with language, if I said your a man hater than I apologize (I'm sure I did not), I simply think your a bit biased against men based on what I've read in the last couple of days.

I don't care about supporters, think its a complete distraction and a waste of time... I don't recall saying you said trump supporters didn't experience violence.. quote me please ;)

Yes, who did start the hate rolling... Is that a question of candidates or their supporters? if it's candidates it should be easy to point out.


wasn't this about a rape accusation? (part of the tool set of division)

Yes, I clearly pointed out the candidate promulgating violence in speech, encouraging followers to commit violence, admiring violence, promising violence on the international stage.

My mind set up about men? Oh for crying out loud, is this where I'm supposed to tell you that you hate women? And rape is a divisive tool? Even when men are raped, Target, is that what it is? Just a tool to divide? No, rape is rape, no matter who is raped or who does the raping.

You don't care about supporters, oh I must have wasted my time, responding to the comment of yours that no Trump supporters committed violence, it's a complete distraction now, lol.

TargeT
17th November 2016, 21:35
Well, Target, we see where you are at, reduced to calling someone who disagrees with you, a man hater, and we see where I am at as well.

Now you are accusing me of saying Trump supporters did not experience violence? Quote me please.

Of course there is violence. Hate begets hate. Violence begets violence. Now who started the hate rolling? Hmmm?

No, but you certainly have your mind set up about men. i'm careful with language, if I said your a man hater than I apologize (I'm sure I did not), I simply think your a bit biased against men based on what I've read in the last couple of days.

I don't care about supporters, think its a complete distraction and a waste of time... I don't recall saying you said trump supporters didn't experience violence.. quote me please ;)

Yes, who did start the hate rolling... Is that a question of candidates or their supporters? if it's candidates it should be easy to point out.


wasn't this about a rape accusation? (part of the tool set of division)


My mind set up about men? Oh for crying out loud, is this where I'm supposed to tell you that you hate women? And rape is a divisive tool? Even when men are raped, Target, is that what it is? Just a tool to divide? No, rape is rape, no matter who is raped or who does the raping.

I'm careful with language,

rape ACCUSATION is a tool of division, yes..


ac·cu·sa·tion
noun
a charge or claim that someone has done something illegal or wrong.
"accusations of bribery"
synonyms: allegation, charge, claim, assertion, imputation; More
the action or process of accusing someone.
"there was accusation in Brian's voice"

and also on topic, cuz.. yeah thread 'n stuff..



responding to the comment of yours that no Trump supporters committed violence, it's a complete distraction now, lol.

I said I had not seen it, not that it did not exist.. and now I"ve seen a little bit of it and a LOT of ACCUSATIONS.

It had to be on both side, I agree.

Sierra
17th November 2016, 21:41
So accusations are now a tool. :facepalm: Wow.

I see. Thank you for your apology.

See you in eight years for a rematch, though you seem to think it's going to be same old, same old, under Trump, lol. Guess he is not gonna make "America" great again?

TargeT
17th November 2016, 22:19
So accusations are now a tool. :facepalm: Wow.

criminal accusations (generally turn out to be baseless) have been a tool in politics since for ever, and an effective one. (http://www.economics.cornell.edu/sites/default/files/files/events/Marc.Rockmore.pap_.pdf)



Guess he is not gonna make "America" great again?

Oh no, I think trump is being built up as a nationalist hero, someone to bring america to gether while at the same time shifting us out of the position of top super power (economic & military) to a much more humble seat at the global table. This is the final stages of Hegelian dialect, trump is the solution (to a lot of people, majority imo) to the problem (political corruption, media has been nice to highlight that quite a bit of late); the reaction was known and it serves two purposes. Apparently the Clinton pissed off the "club" and are now being kicked out of it (I suspect they toyed with the drug trade & are now getting slapped down for it).

Trump is the shiny coin that we've been told to look for, and gee golly we found it! (just ignore the fact that it came out of the same pile as the rest of them).

Sierra
17th November 2016, 23:07
Oh no, I think trump is being built up as a nationalist hero, someone to bring america to gether while at the same time shifting us out of the position of top super power (economic & military) to a much more humble seat at the global table. This is the final stages of Hegelian dialect, trump is the solution (to a lot of people, majority imo) to the problem (political corruption, media has been nice to highlight that quite a bit of late); the reaction was known and it serves two purposes. Apparently the Clinton pissed off the "club" and are now being kicked out of it (I suspect they toyed with the drug trade & are now getting slapped down for it).

Trump is the shiny coin that we've been told to look for, and gee golly we found it! (just ignore the fact that it came out of the same pile as the rest of them).

I meant rape accusations, the implication that rapes are baseless accusations, it's the clothes, it's the come on, it's a good girl would not have been at a party, at school,at a restaurant, sleeping in her bed, sure yer honor she was asking for it.

I don't consider the accusations against Clinton or Trump baseless.

I agree we are going to have a smaller seat at the global table and that is a good thing. We've been hogs for too long. To bring the global standard of living up to what Americans enjoy, would require the resources of twelve more planet earths.

But hell no, Trump is not bringing America together. I've never seen an election like this, and I've been watching elections since an Eisenhower rally at my house in the 50s.

Not the majority either Target, Clinton won the popular vote (and no I didn't vote for the monster).

Yes, Clinton pissed them off on the drug trade for sure. Remember when Obama visited the Philippines and the red carpet was NOT rolled out for him? I believe the president of the Phillipines had a few nasty things to say when speechifying as well. Well, it turns out the president has been executing drug dealers en masse, upsetting the normal flow of the Clinton's drug traffic, and Obama was sent there in person to read him the riot act, lol.

DNA
18th November 2016, 00:01
Violent Trump Protesters


When things are said that are not true, correction is a valid response. No violence by Trump supporters? Are you serious? A simple google request will tell you otherwise.


From what I've seen there is proof that most of the agitators filmed and covered by the media were planted there by the democratic party per Hillary Clinton's chief strategist.


Democratics heads roll after video shows agitaters placed in Trump rallies.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/18/undercover-video-shows-democrats-saying-they-hire-/




Clinton Operatives admit to "Starting Sh!t" and inciting riots at Trump Rallies.
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/dnc-paid-activists-incite-violence-trump/


And here is Project Veritas and the work they have done.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IuJGHuIkzY
5IuJGHuIkzY

DNA
18th November 2016, 00:12
In so far as Trump is concerned, it's a simple matter of looking at the actions of the USA since 9-11.
If Bush and Cheney were part of the orchestration of 9-11, Obama and Hillary continued following the blue print.
The absolute end game seemed to be WWIII, and I'm capable of course of being wrong, but I'm 100% sure WWIII would have started if Hillary became president.
That's just me.
I for one wait with baited breath to see what Trump will do, but for the first time in a long time I have hope.
Trump seems not to be a Demo-con or a Neo-Con and right now, the fact he is outside of the system and has Alex Jones vetting him is good enough for me.
Giving a Presidential pardon to Snowden would be an amazing start. This would give the right message to other would be whistle blowers.


The extent the mainstream media has attempted to give this presidency to Hillary is appalling.
You really can not trust ANYTHING the MSM says anymore, NOTHING.
When that Hurricane hit the east coast last month and the media was all over it my wife asked me, "aren't you worried", to her I answered "I'm not even sure there will be a hurricane, that is how much I do not believe ANYTHING the MSM is saying".

DNA
18th November 2016, 00:25
I don't consider the accusations against Clinton or Trump baseless.


I consider the allegations of rape against Trump to be baseless. A former Jerry Springer producer one Norm Leuboux came forward and admitted to creating the situation to frame Trump. Go to 2:09


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byBB_7modLY
byBB_7modLY




But the allegations against Bill Clinton being a serial rapist and Hillary Clinton using threats, intimidation and cohearsion via private investigators she's hired. No I do not consider those allegations baseless.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHh73fkDUIs
zHh73fkDUIs

KiwiElf
18th November 2016, 07:34
Sorry Sierra,.. Clinton initially won the Popular Vote when Trump was decided as the winner based on the Electoral Votes at the time - Michigan, Arizona & New Hampshire still hadn't been called, but there was no way Hillary could win at that point even if she got all of the remaining EC votes (she didn't) - the final vote after those 3 states were counted as below: (posted from the Transition thread). I see our MSM and others, are still promoting the earlier, "Hillary won the popular vote" even today... When it was all counted up, Trump won both, hands down. :)

Of course, that doesn't account for the fraudulent votes Hitlery/Soros "won" in the first place ;)


FINAL 2016 ELECTION NUMBERS
Clinton-Trump

12 November, 2016

Tonight Michigan was finally called for Donald Trump moving his Electoral College (EC) count up to 306 total to Hillary Clinton’s 232.

To all the snowflakes still rioting because you claim Trump did not get the popular vote, get your meds now and prepare to be shocked because the final results are in.

Go see your therapists now – or maybe do a 24/7 yoga until you recover from this shock.

MSM is also hiding from you that Trump CRUSHED Hillary in the Electoral College (EC). As of today, most if not all media outlets show that Trump won the election with only 279 EC votes. But the truth is Trump also won Michigan with 16 EC votes and Arizona with 11 EC votes for a total of 306 EC votes. Hillary only won 228 EC votes but it looks like she barely won New Hampshire which should put her at 232 EC votes. As a result, Trump won 57% of all EC votes.

Popular Vote: Trump: 62,972,226 Clinton: 62,277,750

Electoral College Vote: Trump: 306 Clinton: 232

Source: Gateway Pundit: http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/11/trumps-landslide-by-the-numbers-he-crushed-hillary/

:focus:

TargeT
18th November 2016, 15:32
I meant rape accusations, the implication that rapes are baseless accusations, it's the clothes, it's the come on, it's a good girl would not have been at a party, at school,at a restaurant, sleeping in her bed, sure yer honor she was asking for it.

Yeah, ok I get what you mean.. I've seen that kind of talk before in old movies. I'm talking about today however, this election, and how accusations are used as a political tool (these ones turned out to be false, which is not uncommon in this usage). Rape, Racism, Sexism, any of the very loaded terms work great as tools to attack with. It's emotional manipulation because most people don't bother to take the time to dig into these topics (its arduous).


The onslaught of disinfo this election cycle is pretty profound and its hard to NOT say that it's mostly one sided (this seems odd to me, that's why I feel trump is probably not what his supporters think he is; but I can be a bit cynical at times).


I know Sierra and I disagree on this, but everything I've seen "against trump" has been mostly baseless.

I can't see him as sexist, racist, a rapist, a misogynist... all of those claims ring very very false and seem very desperate to me.

I'm sure I'm not the only one with this perspective & apparently the complete opposite view is held by many people (which, I think is mostly due to mis-information and emotional manipulation).

But that's what these accusations-as-weapons are meant to do, divide us further.

Less than 60% of the population voted though (last i checked), so there's still hope IMO!

Sierra
18th November 2016, 17:55
But Target, direct quotes from Trump himself, say otherwise. Grabbing pussies etc. clearly show there is something wrong with this guy. But whatever Target. I guess some think that everything spoken about Trump unless positive, comes from hired hacks, videos of ... anyway...

I'm leaving this thread now, ya'll have a good time now, but I've got too much 3D on my plate. :)

I will leave you with the words of Trump himself, spoken and recorded at his rallies unless of course you believe those videos also are false...

Here are some of the potty words employed by Donald Trump to describe women, his rivals and his critics: pussy, bimbo, gold digger, ugly, grotesque, "real killers," "brain dead puppets," crude, rude, obnoxious, strident, dumb, fat, "fat pigs," slobs, disgraceful, disgusting, "disgusting animals," "unattractive both inside and out," dogs, "sweating like a dog," "face of a dog," "cheated like a dog," "barking like a dog," sleaze, sleazy, sleazebag, scum, perv, nasty, slime, slimy, sick, pathetic, unstable, "totally unstable individual," pathological, deviant, "basket case," "mental problem," choker, lightweight, "lightweight choker," "choke artist," "nervous wreck," weak, "weak as a baby," weakest, "little boy," "no chance," overrated, loser, "total loser," "total disaster," "low energy," liar, crazy, "lies like crazy," "the biggest liar I've ever seen," "the single biggest liar I've ever come across," dishonest, "very dishonest," moron, dope, dopey, fool, "jealous fool," "very foolish," worthless, stiff, "total stiff," "major inferiority complex," "truly weird," "spoiled brat," "without a properly functioning brain," "got schlonged," zero, thugs, "a total Bush-y" and so on.

Donald Trump excuses and condones acts of violence by saying that his followers have "tremendous love and passion for the country." He says they "have anger that's unbelievable," as if that somehow explains violence. He claims they "love this country" and says their "great love for the country" is "a beautiful thing in many respects." But millions of other Americans manage to love their country without beating up people with different political views.

TargeT
18th November 2016, 20:25
But Target, direct quotes from Trump himself, say otherwise. Grabbing pussies etc. clearly show there is something wrong with this guy.

You heard exactly what you wanted to hear in that...

Know what I heard? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9YxXJBvYS4)


"when your a star, they (women) LET you do it. you can do anything."

"grab them by the pussy"

" you can do anything"


My dear, I've grabbed many a pussy in my day and my partner was always very happy for it, you could even say she "let" me do it, or wanted me to (kinda the core of "consent" right?).

In fact that was some pretty damn tame locker room talk, and pretty damn respectful to women too!

Two completely oppisite views, I don't see yours as true at all & I'm sure you hold the same regard for what I just highlighted.


I will leave you with the words of Trump himself, spoken and recorded at his rallies unless of course you believe those videos also are false...

Here are some of the potty words employed by Donald Trump to describe women, his rivals and his critics: pussy, bimbo, gold digger, ugly, grotesque, "real killers," "brain dead puppets," crude, rude, obnoxious, strident, dumb, fat, "fat pigs," slobs, disgraceful, disgusting, "disgusting animals," "unattractive both inside and out," dogs, "sweating like a dog," "face of a dog," "cheated like a dog," "barking like a dog," sleaze, sleazy, sleazebag, scum, perv, nasty, slime, slimy, sick, pathetic, unstable, "totally unstable individual," pathological, deviant, "basket case," "mental problem," choker, lightweight, "lightweight choker," "choke artist," "nervous wreck," weak, "weak as a baby," weakest, "little boy," "no chance," overrated, loser, "total loser," "total disaster," "low energy," liar, crazy, "lies like crazy," "the biggest liar I've ever seen," "the single biggest liar I've ever come across," dishonest, "very dishonest," moron, dope, dopey, fool, "jealous fool," "very foolish," worthless, stiff, "total stiff," "major inferiority complex," "truly weird," "spoiled brat," "without a properly functioning brain," "got schlonged," zero, thugs, "a total Bush-y" and so on.

I highly value honesty and blutness, I abhore political correctness.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the above other than perhaps a bit of rudeness (which is perfectly fine in a human).



Donald Trump excuses and condones acts of violence by saying that his followers have "tremendous love and passion for the country." He says they "have anger that's unbelievable," as if that somehow explains violence. He claims they "love this country" and says their "great love for the country" is "a beautiful thing in many respects." But millions of other Americans manage to love their country without beating up people with different political views.

Donald trump cannot control his followers, talking about what someone else does in relation to someone completely different is really pointless, total distraction. This is such a non-argument, I don't understand why you keep coming back to it.

Sierra
19th November 2016, 00:17
Well, as long as you don't mind some stranger grabbing your wife's pussy, lol. As long as he's famous, that makes it okay. :ROFL:

Mike
19th November 2016, 01:00
Well, as long as you don't mind some stranger grabbing your wife's pussy, lol. As long as he's famous, that makes it okay. :ROFL:



A mod just said the word "pussy". I'm inspired! :)

TargeT, I see youre as sick as usual. please, take the medicine. Its good for you.

Sierra
19th November 2016, 01:07
Well, as long as you don't mind some stranger grabbing your wife's pussy, lol. As long as he's famous, that makes it okay. :ROFL:



A mod just said the word "pussy". I'm inspired! :)

TargeT, I see youre as sick as usual. please, take the medicine. Its good for you.

Pussy! I've been so inspired by Trump! Let the good times roll! Pussy!

:blackwidow:

And TargeT says he is "absolutely okay" with you calling his wife a pussy, bimbo, gold digger, ugly, grotesque, "real killers," "brain dead puppets," crude, rude, obnoxious, strident, dumb, fat, "fat pigs," slobs, disgraceful, disgusting, "disgusting animals," "unattractive both inside and out," dogs, "sweating like a dog," "face of a dog," "cheated like a dog," "barking like a dog," sleaze, sleazy, sleazebag, scum, perv, nasty, slime, slimy, sick, pathetic, unstable, "totally unstable individual," pathological, deviant, "basket case," "mental problem," choker, lightweight, "lightweight choker," "choke artist," "nervous wreck," weak, "weak as a baby," weakest, "little boy," "no chance," overrated, loser, "total loser," "total disaster," "low energy," liar, crazy, "lies like crazy," "the biggest liar I've ever seen," "the single biggest liar I've ever come across," dishonest, "very dishonest," moron, dope, dopey, fool, "jealous fool," "very foolish," worthless, stiff, "total stiff," "major inferiority complex," "truly weird," "spoiled brat," "without a properly functioning brain," "got schlonged," zero, thugs, "a total Bush-y".

Bob
19th November 2016, 01:46
Well, as long as you don't mind some stranger grabbing your wife's pussy, lol. As long as he's famous, that makes it okay. :ROFL:


https://i.imgflip.com/1c0dsy.jpg

TargeT
19th November 2016, 04:17
Well, as long as you don't mind some stranger grabbing your wife's pussy, lol. As long as he's famous, that makes it okay. :ROFL:



A mod just said the word "pussy". I'm inspired! :)

TargeT, I see youre as sick as usual. please, take the medicine. Its good for you.

Pussy! I've been so inspired by Trump! Let the good times roll! Pussy!

:blackwidow:

And TargeT says he is "absolutely okay" with you calling his wife a pussy, bimbo, gold digger, ugly, grotesque, "real killers," "brain dead puppets," crude, rude, obnoxious, strident, dumb, fat, "fat pigs," slobs, disgraceful, disgusting, "disgusting animals," "unattractive both inside and out," dogs, "sweating like a dog," "face of a dog," "cheated like a dog," "barking like a dog," sleaze, sleazy, sleazebag, scum, perv, nasty, slime, slimy, sick, pathetic, unstable, "totally unstable individual," pathological, deviant, "basket case," "mental problem," choker, lightweight, "lightweight choker," "choke artist," "nervous wreck," weak, "weak as a baby," weakest, "little boy," "no chance," overrated, loser, "total loser," "total disaster," "low energy," liar, crazy, "lies like crazy," "the biggest liar I've ever seen," "the single biggest liar I've ever come across," dishonest, "very dishonest," moron, dope, dopey, fool, "jealous fool," "very foolish," worthless, stiff, "total stiff," "major inferiority complex," "truly weird," "spoiled brat," "without a properly functioning brain," "got schlonged," zero, thugs, "a total Bush-y".

yes, I would LITERALLY die for the right for you, and him to express those exact statements.

In fact, I've lived through 7 IEDs (we called them dirt showers when they missed), and over 10 fire fights just do to so.

Just like I've fought for the right for Sierra to say exactly what she has this entire thread.

I think everyone should be able to express their views, that's the healthiest society possible.

I've said most of those things myself when applicable and do not feel bad for it one bit.

-unapologetic male.


Well, as long as you don't mind some stranger grabbing your wife's pussy, lol. As long as he's famous, that makes it okay. :ROFL:


if she "lets" them do that, I'm not really sure where I have the ground to object.

I DEFINITELY do not oppress anyone, ESPECIALLY not my wife. she is not my property, she is a strong individual who can take care of herself... of course I'm there to help if anything should arise.

I'm a bit insulted that you would insinuate that I would be ok with someone violating her will. This political discussion shouldnt' change your view of me to that entirety... I have nearly 6000 posts on this forum showing who I am. AND THAT IS NOT WHO I AM.

I would die for you to defend your will.. I've shown that for years of my life already. Why would my wife be any different?

KiwiElf
19th November 2016, 04:24
:thumbsup: ... from another UNapologetic, UN-PC male! :Party:;)

greybeard
19th November 2016, 08:23
Trying to lighten things a bit.
When I was 15 a girl (17) groped me--that led to a beautiful relationship which lasted a year--her dad was fairly famous.
Hormones?
I never did that to a female but I sure wanted to as a teen.

Chris

greybeard
19th November 2016, 08:37
Another thought.
Some males have a higher than average sex drive-I suspect they are more successful than most.
Females are more attracted to successful males--its biological--they would be the best providers for a any children.

Bottom line is we may be spirit having a human experience but we have an "animal" body and with the same functions as any animal.

I am abhorred by sex without consent, thats is a terrible violation.

Chris

Heart2hearth
19th November 2016, 10:07
Well, as long as you don't mind some stranger grabbing your wife's pussy, lol. As long as he's famous, that makes it okay. :ROFL:


https://i.imgflip.com/1c0dsy.jpg

What's new Pussycatch....

Sierra
19th November 2016, 12:08
Another thought.
Some males have a higher than average sex drive-I suspect they are more successful than most.
Females are more attracted to successful males--its biological--they would be the best providers for a any children.

Bottom line is we may be spirit having a human experience but we have an "animal" body and with the same functions as any animal.

I am abhorred by sex without consent, thats is a terrible violation.

Chris

Trump quite disagrees with you!

greybeard
19th November 2016, 12:23
Another thought.
Some males have a higher than average sex drive-I suspect they are more successful than most.
Females are more attracted to successful males--its biological--they would be the best providers for a any children.

Bottom line is we may be spirit having a human experience but we have an "animal" body and with the same functions as any animal.

I am abhorred by sex without consent, thats is a terrible violation.

Chris

Trump quite disagrees with you!

He is entitled to his opinion (possibly)---I dont know what his opinion is--but I have expressed mine--and Im not saying my assumption is correct
From what you say Sirrea I assume his opinion is different from mine.
Im not into the politics or anything like that --I would not have voted if American--I dont vote here in Scotland.

Chris

Sierra
19th November 2016, 12:45
Thank you TargeT, that is very gracious of you, I get to say what I want.

I'm very sorry but nothing the United States did in the Middle East had anything to do with my free speech.

What the United States does under Trump though, may greatly impact my free speech. I've already been clearly discounted and marginalized by Trump, and so have other entire subsets of American citizens. Trump used the most divisive game plan I have ever seen in a presidential campaign, to get the vote.

And it worked.

Had his opponent been anyone else than Hilary Clinton, it would not have worked.

We've been had, and some of us don't know it yet.

There was no choice this election, that was not going to tear this country apart.

Brilliant strategy on the part of TPTB.

And it may very well cost us our free speech, and a hell of a lot more than we can currently conceive.

I think TPTB do guffaw, and celebrate behind closed doors.

TargeT
19th November 2016, 13:16
Thank you TargeT, that is very gracious of you, I get to say what I want.

Well it seemed like freedom of speech was in question, you listed a whole bunch of words that someone said and tried to use it as evidence against them.

Yes, you get to say what you want.

So does trump

So does anyone?



What the United States does under Trump though, may greatly impact my free speech.

Your right, it might, but bias before action is not advisable, lets see what happens?


I've already been clearly discounted and marginalized by Trump, and so have other entire subsets of American citizens. Trump used the most divisive game plan I have ever seen in a presidential campaign, to get the vote.

And it worked.

Wouldn't that mean it wasn't very divisive since so many people came together to vote him in? Wasn't all the divicive rhetoric from the Left? (take a statement,spin it, take a sound bite, spin it...) a majority of people didn't fall for it, so it only was divisive to those that did I suppose.

how exactly has trump marginalized you?

Why let some orange hair piece have that kind of power over you, how has trump done anything to you at all? have you ever even seen him in person?


Had his opponent been anyone else than Hilary Clinton, it would not have worked.

Oh I certainly agree with that, though I'd say clinton would have won if she hadn't been so shady her whole life and got caught.


We've been had, and some of us don't know it yet.

Haha, for about 103 years, I agree!


There was no choice this election, that was not going to tear this country apart.

Brilliant strategy on the part of TPTB.

Just like when Obama ran against Mcain, it's worse than "coke vs pepsi" these last few (s)election cycles.. it's been one complete disaster candidate and the one that gets elected.


And it may very well cost us our free speech, and a hell of a lot more than we can currently conceive.

I think TPTB do guffaw, and celebrate behind closed doors.

That's a bit extreme, Why would TPTB take an issue like that head on when they can just pass laws like the "hate speech" laws.. I think we are already well on our way to eroding that amendment, luckily it appears that a good portion of the country won't stand for the PC BS anymore, thus: trump.

The DNC brought this on themselves in my view point, and it's almost too perfect (that's why I'm a bit cynical on the topic of trumps future performance).

Sierra
19th November 2016, 13:22
The DNC brought this on themselves in my view point, and it's almost too perfect (that's why I'm a bit cynical on the topic of trumps future performance).

Oh, I think the Republican Party brought it on themselves as well.

It was a perfect plan, really.

TargeT
19th November 2016, 13:25
Oh, I think the Republican Party brought it on themselves as well.

It was a perfect plan, really.

very true..

Sierra
19th November 2016, 13:49
And it may very well cost us our free speech, and a hell of a lot more than we can currently conceive.

I think TPTB do guffaw, and celebrate behind closed doors.

That's a bit extreme, Why would TPTB take an issue like that head on ...

Why do it themselves when they can get us to do it for them?

Don't forget the loosh they need.

TargeT
19th November 2016, 14:03
And it may very well cost us our free speech, and a hell of a lot more than we can currently conceive.

I think TPTB do guffaw, and celebrate behind closed doors.

That's a bit extreme, Why would TPTB take an issue like that head on ...

Why do it themselves when they can get us to do it for them?

Don't forget the loosh they need.

I figured that was what the "hate speech" stuff was all about. A person now can receive a fine in a couple of east coasts states if they refer to someone with the incorrect pronoun (him, them, she, Ze, Hir attack helicopter, all that stuff?) (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/05/17/you-can-be-fined-for-not-calling-people-ze-or-hir-if-thats-the-pronoun-they-demand-that-you-use/?utm_term=.0f77eaafb6a0)

You literally get fined for making the wrong non-threatening vibrations with your mouth, in the US.. I think we are well on our way, but that method doesn't seem like it has the emotional energy aspect to it.

I do loose track of the Loosh harvesting idea, it makes sense but it's hard to apply it to reality, for me.

I figured movie theaters were Loosh buffets and so are riots / protests (at least the type we have these days, people get pretty worked up) but it wouldn't necessarily have to be concentrated like that i guess.