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Sammy
8th May 2017, 19:48
The meaning of life in a world without work

In this article (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/08/virtual-reality-religion-robots-sapiens-book) -

As technology renders jobs obsolete, what will keep us busy? Sapiens author Yuval Noah Harari examines ‘the useless class’ and a new quest for purpose.

Comment by Sam: I found the article thought provoking. I also get a sense there is some "thought planting." I also sense the article takes one to the edge of some conclusions which the article does not address along the lines of what is found on the Georgia Guidestones (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones).


Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.

Justplain
8th May 2017, 20:19
Hi Sam, in this recent thread was discussed that the Canadian central bank is promoting AI and automation:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?97216-Central-Bank-promoting-AI-and-automation&highlight=Central+bank

I would suggest the bank of canada got this idea from the cabal banskter committee, via committees like the council on foreign relations, or the bilderburgers, or the club of rome, or trilateral commission, or the rand corp. What a bunch of illuminati manipulators those psychopaths are.

Speaking about psychpaths, here one of PA's members elspru, the transhumanist 'greenjesus', in this thread is promoting robots over humans:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?97233-I-was-a-gray-alien-in-past-life-any-questions

Even the mainstream science icon stephen hawking warns against the dangers of AI. But, as far as the msm goes, its just another merry fun ride for the newest tech trend, as directed by their puppetmasters.

I think good advice to young people is save their dinero and invest it in an independent lifestyle, one that can be self sustaining. An example would be buy land with lodgings, grow a garden, find renewable energy (ie wood, solar, etc.) and be ready to home school your kids, etc. If the big unemployment depression comes, then atleast you'd have your own patch of land to live on. I can see room in such an independent lifestyle for the internet, 3d printers, electric cars, etc., but one should be able to live off the grid if needs be. It would be a time to get back to nature and closer to your soul.

Gaia
8th May 2017, 20:24
''I think good advice to young people is save their dinero and invest it in an independent lifestyle''

I'm doing this everyday :)

Bubu
8th May 2017, 22:15
"The crucial problem isn’t creating new jobs. The crucial problem is creating new jobs that humans perform better than algorithms."

The crucial problem is that man thinks that work is more important than living.
Life might start to have meaning when there is no work.

Justplain
8th May 2017, 22:38
Hi Bubu, i get your point, however having AI driven tech that provides us with 'freedom' is extremely dangerous, since AI could very easily choose to eliminate us as unneeded baggage.

PurpleLama
8th May 2017, 22:48
Painting a picture is work. Composing a piece of music is work. Organic small hold farming is work. Writing a poem, novel, or essay is work. Creating a virtual world is work.

One of these things carries little to no cultural value, therefore lacks "meaning" in the grand scheme of human endeavor.

Bubu
8th May 2017, 22:51
Hi Bubu, i get your point, however having AI driven tech that provides us with 'freedom' is extremely dangerous, since AI could very easily choose to eliminate us as unneeded baggage.

yes that's the plan all along as depicted in movies, AI vs human. To eliminate more humans as possible through whatever way. I seem to have develop immunity to fear of such and choose to live instead. As I have said danger can be sensed by a grounded and connected person. A person with fear is unconnected.

zen deik
9th May 2017, 01:49
E.M.P. start over.....☺

Justplain
9th May 2017, 01:53
Hi Bubu, i get your point, however having AI driven tech that provides us with 'freedom' is extremely dangerous, since AI could very easily choose to eliminate us as unneeded baggage.

yes that's the plan all along as depicted in movies, AI vs human. To eliminate more humans as possible through whatever way. I seem to have develop immunity to fear of such and choose to live instead. As I have said danger can be sensed by a grounded and connected person. A person with fear is unconnected.

Not to be run by fear, to be aware of the risks. To not swim in shark infested water, not to drink the poison elixir. I love life and want the best future for all, without AI armies, with a close connection to the living Mother Earth. Emphasis on consciousness and spirit raising. That should be our goal. Tech that supports that goal is welcome.

The Freedom Train
9th May 2017, 02:38
In a world without work and barring the freedom to acquire necessities without some form of currency, I would say that life would look like starvation and chaos for many.

Ewan
9th May 2017, 09:22
A disturbing article with a rather narrow view I felt, those that are unemployable can spend their time playing computer games and living in virtual worlds. What a bright future for humanity he has all mapped out.

Last night I watched the new film "Ghost in the Shell", originally told via Japanese Manga. It is largely about transhumanism, 70 something per cent of humanity have embraced cybernetic implants, enhancements etc.

Quite near the begining the doctor/scientist tells the main character..
We cling to memories as if they define us, but, they really don't.
What we do is what defines us.

At the end of the film the main character tells us..

My mind is human, my body is manufactured. I'm the first of my kind, but, I won't be the last. (She repeats the previous quote). My ghost survived to remind the next of us that humanity is our virtue. I know who I am.

With the overall message, as I understood it, being that humanity is above and beyond any kind of 'enhancement' from technology. I'm sure it depends on your perspective, there will likely be a lot of people ready to embrace the idea of implants and enhancement not realising the long term result is likely to be a negative.

Bubu
9th May 2017, 10:06
of all the living organism on planet earth perhaps humans are the only ones afraid to lose a job.

Noelle
9th May 2017, 13:55
A disturbing article with a rather narrow view I felt, those that are unemployable can spend their time playing computer games and living in virtual worlds. What a bright future for humanity he has all mapped out.

Last night I watched the new film "Ghost in the Shell", originally told via Japanese Manga. It is largely about transhumanism, 70 something per cent of humanity have embraced cybernetic implants, enhancements etc.

Quite near the begining the doctor/scientist tells the main character..
We cling to memories as if they define us, but, they really don't.
What we do is what defines us.

At the end of the film the main character tells us..

My mind is human, my body is manufactured. I'm the first of my kind, but, I won't be the last. (She repeats the previous quote). My ghost survived to remind the next of us that humanity is our virtue. I know who I am.

With the overall message, as I understood it, being that humanity is above and beyond any kind of 'enhancement' from technology. I'm sure it depends on your perspective, there will likely be a lot of people ready to embrace the idea of implants and enhancement not realising the long term result is likely to be a negative.

I thought it was an unsettling article too. I came away from it wondering, yet again, are we in a simulated reality game being played out by our future selves?

Basho
9th May 2017, 19:34
of all the living organism on planet earth perhaps humans are the only ones afraid to lose a job.

When someone tells me with a sad look on their face that they got laid off, I say "congratulations, lets celebrate" That elicits a big smile from most but they tell me I'm crazy. I tell them welcome to your rebirth process :bigsmile:

Ernie Nemeth
9th May 2017, 21:31
I read the original article yesterday. It made the hairs on the back of my neck rise. This idea that work is somehow going to disappear with the advent of robots and automation is ludicrous to me.

Work, as it is used in the article is really = earning money. Work will still need to be done. Unless they give us each our own personal robot, which only would be fair, you will still need to paint your house, repair your car, cut the grass, cook dinner... Not to mention the real work of creative potential that we all do in one form or another already.

It is the greedy, selfish, and short sighted mentally of this society, a society that cannot even be called a civilization yet, that has made work (read earning money) a necessity by monetizing everything on the planet.

It seems like a logical question to ask - what are we going to do to earn money? But the secret is that this is a meme implanted into our minds long ago, it is not a pertinent question. The question is now, how will we restructure society so that all are provided with the basic necessities without having to worry about earning money? Or even more pertinent: What are the global controllers planning to do with us, now they have rendered us useless?

Justplain
10th May 2017, 00:03
I read the original article yesterday. It made the hairs on the back of my neck rise. This idea that work is somehow going to disappear with the advent of robots and automation is ludicrous to me.

Work, as it is used in the article is really = earning money. Work will still need to be done. Unless they give us each our own personal robot, which only would be fair, you will still need to paint your house, repair your car, cut the grass, cook dinner... Not to mention the real work of creative potential that we all do in one form or another already.

It is the greedy, selfish, and short sighted mentally of this society, a society that cannot even be called a civilization yet, that has made work (read earning money) a necessity by monetizing everything on the planet.

It seems like a logical question to ask - what are we going to do to earn money? But the secret is that this is a meme implanted into our minds long ago, it is not a pertinent question. The question is now, how will we restructure society so that all are provided with the basic necessities without having to worry about earning money? Or even more pertinent: What are the global controllers planning to do with us, now they have rendered us useless?

Isnt the question really 'how do we advance ourselves with our spare time?'? Then the question is 'what does advance mean?'. So, if one thinks that advancing oneself is to improve their consciousness, then the search goes on for that. Otherwise one might choose to advance oneself via cyborg augmentation, which is what transhumanists advocate. Choosing the first option is the only way to true freedom, our problem is following the path. Instinct tells me we already know the way home, we just need the patience to follow the path shown by the enlightened ones. The question is how many of us will have the patience.

apokalypse
10th May 2017, 02:23
in every society need to work but what are the purpose of work? why are we working? current time period we are working for survival, endless of materialism creating usless stuff or creating same stuff over and over agian....ect.

I still can't understand why we have so many people unemployed and not many jobs out there. with proper system having job allocation we can weekly hours work less than 20, damn sad seeing engineering students unemployed or a friend of mind who you can be trusted unemployed. We need new system what ever you want to called it, a system of Socially Own.

what happen if we have Automated Government? Do we need Government in 100 years time when we have achieve advance AI? we in here have heard about time travel or secret space program on AI control the world or AI manage the world.

CurEus
10th May 2017, 14:25
The Province of Ontario ( Canada) is test piloting a guaranteed minimum income project of about $1600/month. Everyone would get the money monthly.
The discussion is about "dignity" and valuing everyone.
This will totally eviscerate the government administrators for Welfare, Pensions, Student loans/supports, Disability pensions etc. That is A LOT of people to lose their jobs.

I tend to think that it is about appeasing the masses who will not have much work in the future. Now taking this further we note that Australia has threatened to remove payments to parents who do not vaccinate their children and the same if they fail drug tests for welfare/child state funds.

Further again, what type of ID would be necessary? Well banking accounts is one and most people here use bank debit cards, not cash. As it is easy to track individual purchases with use of debit cards.....hopefully we do not go above any "quota" for "unapproved foods" be it candy or meats. Other ID could be....a payment microchip implanted?

What other "demands"will be made of for "free money"........
Only ONE child for you!
Did you take your flu vaccine?
You must quit smoking/drinking
Buy more brussel sprouts and GMO corn...you are not getting enough "vegetables" in your diet.

Just some thoughts I believe are worth sharing.

Ernie Nemeth
10th May 2017, 21:36
Again, the idea is not deep enough. You can't go half way. If you want to support the people by supplying their basic needs, the first thing that has to go is money. It has no place in such a system. All items are supplied freely to all. It takes an entirely new mind-set to grasp the basic and fundamental difference.

The problem is we think we are broke and that commodities are scarce, when nothing could be further from the truth. Scarcity is engineered.

We are, as a planet of individuals, richer than our wildest dreams can imagine. Just witness the trillions pulled out of thin air to prop up the corporations and banks back during the latest financial collapse. When they are hurting money comes out of nowhere to save the day (you can argue it did not come from nowhere and that the bailout will cost generations many times that number but the money is false and it is created as needed when needed).That is that incredible wealth that we have amassed but that is being artfully stolen from the wealth-builders - the workers.

In other words, the wealth is there but it has been successfully stolen and then cunningly hidden from public view. The PTB are not broke, only we are, by design.

Like I said, we are rich beyond our wildest dreams, but money has subverted that wealth from its rightful owners - US! Get rid of money, parse out everything evenly and without predudice, watch this planet blossom into a utopia.

Or just never mind and let's get up and go to work...

CurEus
11th May 2017, 19:09
Seems to align with agendas 21 and 30...we own nothing and we are "free"

not buying it!

I can't even "own" a private email between myself and my mother without someone storing it, reading it or advertising to me about it.....

wnlight
11th May 2017, 20:17
While following this thread, Kurt Vonnegut's novel "Player Piano" came to mind. I read this book soon after it was published in 1952. It had an unhappy ending (as did most of his books.) Since I was headlong flying into a technical career, the book's theme was very bothersome. I anticipate that there will always be work for some, but most will perhaps fall into the "useless eaters" category. I am optimistic about the long-term future of humanity, but very concerned about the next twenty-thirty years.

Satori
11th May 2017, 22:13
"We gotta go back."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00lW5R1dosI

Bubu
11th May 2017, 23:32
"We gotta go back."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00lW5R1dosI

yep. people are afraid to lose job because we lose the real life skills like growing food and making house. people nowadays mostly do paper works or buy and sell. something dependent on someone not on nature. As long as there is mother earth those who know how to live by it will survive. "we gotta go back"

a friend who owns a small fishing craft that can carry up to 4 people can party everyday alcohol intoxication is the only limit. On one of the drinking sessions he brag "as long as there is sea we will party". Two bad he loss the skills to alcohol:) he was a very good free diver.

Ernie Nemeth
12th May 2017, 00:22
Seems to align with agendas 21 and 30...we own nothing and we are "free"

not buying it!

I can't even "own" a private email between myself and my mother without someone storing it, reading it or advertising to me about it.....



That's because, more and more, our lives are being monetized. Everything is subverted by the need of money: the paycheck; the mortgage; the vacation; the insurance for life ,work, business, health; the savings; the emergency funds; the groceries, the children's college fund; the car; the fuel; licenses; fees; fines; permits; heating\cooling; retirement; the legacy....

What's left? Money is all we are about now. And nothing else. It beats out family, lovers, loyalty, fealty, integrity and other lofty ideals. It is the only thing of value. But it has no value. Nor does it claim to have value. It is openly a "fiat" system.

What more need be said? Yet it must be said again and again.

In such an upside down world, I often get queasy.

Go figure.

CurEus
12th May 2017, 04:41
WTF is up with Canadians?
we're all over PA like deer ticks.......or *conspiracy voice* maybe that is by design!..........

araucaria
12th May 2017, 08:05
This sounds like an interesting thread, but I'm afraid I have too much on my plate to make more than a token contribution :)

Iloveyou
12th May 2017, 10:46
As I assume "world without work" means without slave work, compulsory labor, jobs to avoid starving - here a few words about an alternative concept of work.

"Love, work, and knowledge are the wellsprings
of our lives, they should also govern it."

W. Reich talks about the inherent human need/necessity/desire to be productive, creative, expressive within one's social environment and he defined what he called 'Work Democracy' (a term he coined in the late 1930s, today he would have chosen a different one, maybe). Imo it is still valid and from this point of view 'work' will never disappear.


"Natural work democracy exists and is in constant operation , no matter whether this or that political party or ideological group knows about its existence or not. The process of natural work democracy  may be strictly at variance with  existing social institutions, or it maybe more or less identical with them. This work-democratic process requires that social ideologies and institutions be brought into harmony with natural needs and human relationships as they express themselves in natural love, in vitally necessary work and in scientific search. These living social functions can be hindered or they can be furthered, the working individual may be conscious of them or or not. But they cannot be destroyed. For this reason, they form the solid and only rational basis of any rational social process."


So...what is work democracy? As I understand it, and occasionally have experienced it, it is what happens when individuals without too much armouring carrying out a common task 'click' together to complete that task without any hidden emotional agenda, without the need for spurious, dignity-enhancing authority, often indeed, without any authority at all, and where, when authority is exercised, it is exercised for the benefit of the task, not to enhance the power, income, or status of the person exercising it. As soon as the situation that calls forth the need for the functional authority has passed the authority passes. It may be handed over to another individual or group as the demands of the task change.

The very definitely undemocratic process that we see so often in work projects is what happens when someone puts forward a plan and attaches their own ego to it, making it their aim to push the plan through, not for the benefit of the task in hand but for the sake of their own status and power. We cannot imagine such a person saying during a discussion, oh, yes, that's a much better idea. Let's do it that way. Why didn't I think of that before?

As we see, work-democracy 'happens' as the result of spontaneous emotional contact between individuals and an awareness of the necessities of the overall project, not because of an ideology or a plan in advance. Authority shifts, waxes and wanes, and may even disappear for a while. A sure sign of work-democratic authority is a situation when someone in authority appears and has no effect on the work in hand and the workers simply carry on as before.

Quoted: http://www.orgonomyuk.org.uk/Work%20Democracy.html

ZShawn
12th May 2017, 13:59
I posted this in another forum on this topic:

here we are, contracted beings....compressed into a mortal shell, yet we are infinitely expansive at our source, our essence, which creates many contradictions.
when we become aware of our true nature as immortal, divine essence this conflicts with the economic game we are all enmeshed in
since, a divine being will do things for the love of it, not for consideration....which is tough to pay the rent with
so, what then?
continue to play mercenary or whore and submit a bill for each and every labor and task for the exchange of coupons and continue as slaves working with slave scrip?
small wonder that as a species we are still so caught in the trap of the current economic narrative.
duality, expansion vs. contraction...... UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) the fundamental basis of the trade agreements of the globe which enforces contract law, fitting for contracted beings with a contracted awareness
however
very far (180 degrees) from the ideal of expansive consciousness where love is the consideration, unconditional.
as soon as one begins to think of gain for any actions performed for anyone, then one has entered into the jurisdiction of contracts which is completely monopolized and dominated by the money guild, which one is then operating as a subsidiary of with fees and taxes due for each and every transaction......
what to do with such a conundrum...
as always ....love is the answer

Justplain
12th May 2017, 18:35
I believe a source of our current conundrum is from a different time when the rules were different. The definition of the "Protestant work ethic: the view that a person's duty is to achieve success through hard work and thrift, such success being a sign that one is saved." This ethic was widely discussed in the anglo-saxon canadian town of my birth. There are several problems with it. Firstly, success is measured by an external, materialistic standard, a very shallow one, one that is endemic. Secondly, this ethic assumes a relatively even playing field, a naive assumption that you will be justly rewarded for hard work. This ethic flourished in north america thru the 18th to 20th centuries where the middle class could still make a living, where the wealthy could have there's as long as i could have mine. Back at the founding of the USA there were wealthy people, but the rules allowed hard workers to accumulate some of their own. As corporations and the rich accumulated obscene amounts of wealth it became apparent that this ethic did not always apply, maybe it did for middle class merchants and professionals, but not for the blue collar workers. The lawmakers tried to even the playing field via big government, but failed to understand that government would be infilltrated by the wealthy so that now government is an instrument of the wealthy.

We have now reached a stage where, with trade deals and immigration, and debt slavery, the middle class has been primarily impoverished as the blue collar class has been. And the ethic no longer applies. The truth is you work hard in order to survive.

Now we have the very real pending dystopia of over half the population being welfare dependent as AI and robots displace workers. The likelihood is that the welfare would be poverty level and many strings would be attached to funds/housing/etc.

The question now is, is there a way out? I would suggest there are several levels this pending disaster can be addressed:

1). With the resources you currently have, see if you can obtain an alternate, independent lifestyle. To me, this means obtaining land with lodgings and a source of renewable energy. If i can sit on my own patch, grow some of my own food, if i am unemployed i can survive and take care of my own.
If one doesnt have the resources, there are likely other ways to become quasi independent such as thru survivalist groups/training, etc.

2). In the current context, a movement to halt the infiltration of government by the wealthy could help stem the tide. For instance, new rules should be put in place to require the public review of all regulations and details before voting takes place. Corruption rules should have harsh penalties for violations and meaningful enforcement monitoring bodies in place. Corporations and unions should be prohibited from political contributions. Poliltical contributions should be very limited. All contributions to research, etc., should be publicly listed on a regular basis (to see what the wealthy are up to). Military budgets should be severely curtailed and most, if not all, black ops projects declassified. Better regulations for food should be established, such as incentives for organic. Alternative health care should be encouraged.

3). Improving our consciousness, and ethical behaviour, should be our primary goal after subsistence needs are met. This would include encouraging meditation, yoga, fasting, etc. Getting closer to nature, such as growing your own food, should be encouraged. Spiritual retreats should be encouraged, etc.

I am sure many here on PA would have many suggestions to add here. I think we could achieve this if we really put our minds and backs into it.

wnlight
13th May 2017, 15:15
Justplain, I read with interest your three points to address this growing problem of loss of income in a world that still demands money. I am retired for nine years, now, with a little income from SS and a small rental aimed at mildly rich northamerican tourists. I had an advantage. I was able to setup my home here in the Andes mountains with savings that I had accumulated working as a software contractor in the USA. I used to joke that "I had fun playing with their computers and they PAID me too." Because I had the Knowledge, I had the POWER to successfully demand my salary. You might claim that, like the fictional Captain Kirk, I was able to talk my way out of any problems and thus never experienced the every-day issues of a debt-slave. Actually, my early life hadn’t been THAT easy, but I had always kept my debit level manageable and eventually bought my way out to freedom. That freedom was relative since although the banksters no longer owned my house, the government sure did. And the government also collected its commission for allowing me to work. I was able to avoid (by moving out of) the USA penalty for living and breathing - namely Obamacare.

Now about your three points, Justplain, I lived my teenage years on a farm (corn and beans and some animals) in Illinois. Like many others, we produced much of the food we ate. I think that can still be done. You must produce much more than you eat in order to sell the excess to pay for other living expenses. Keep in mind, though, that farming on any scale is inherently risky and thus not suited to everyone. After paying the taxes and the mortgage, and going into debt for seed, chemicals and minimal machinery, the farmer works hard for months hoping to avoid effects of any mistakes, bad weather, pestilence, and governmental eminent domain. :)

Your second point of the people attempting to control the government is, IMO, much more problematic. The ballot box is broken in the sense that usually the satanic elite have chosen both leading candidates. In fact, they create the leading candidates with their money and their ownership of the MSM. Time may show that even president Trump is owned by the elite and has been turned. There are already some indications of this.

I like your third point of a spiritual solution. That is the path that I have chosen. I am looking forward to more and more people choosing the spiritual path as they realize there is no better answer.

Helene West
13th May 2017, 15:44
As CurEus mentions in post#18 the movement for a basic guaranteed income has already begun. I didn't see anyone mention that Switzerland already voted on one proposal last year and the people voted it down. This will keep popping up in light of increasing automation. Here is the BBC report on the Swiss vote against a 'guaranteed basic income for all'.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36454060

abmqa
13th May 2017, 21:29
Reading this thread reminded me of Jacque Fresco (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacque_Fresco) who has an extremely "radical" viewpoint and theory called; Resource Based Economy. A little about him and the Venus Project below:


A Global Holistic Solution: Resource Based Economy

Global problems faced by mankind today are impacting individuals and nations rapidly. Climate change, famine, war, epidemics of deadly diseases and environmental pollution contribute to the long list of global challenges we, as humans, need to promptly address before an eventual catastrophe swiftly becomes inevitable.

Regardless of political philosophy, religious beliefs, or social customs, all socio-economic systems ultimately depend upon natural resources, such as clean air and water, arable land, and the necessary technology and personnel to maintain a high standard of living.

Modern society has access to highly advanced technologies and can make available food, clothing, housing, medical care, a relevant educational system, and develop a limitless supply of renewable, non-contaminating energy such as geothermal, solar, wind and tidal.

It is now possible to have everyone on Earth enjoy a very high standard of living with all of the amenities that a prosperous civilization can provide. This can be accomplished through the intelligent and humane application of science and technology.

Individuals and interest groups are governed by laws that demand maximum profit where possible. These laws are inherent in the monetary system prevalent in most countries today – capitalism. The basic principles of capitalism demand exponential growth at all cost causing financial cataclysms such as the 1929s Great Depression in the United States and the recent financial crisis of 2007-08.

We are separated by borders and beliefs which make it impossible for us to arrive at relevant solutions while being divided ideologically. Most of our problems today are technical but we are still looking for solutions through political means. We need to accept that eliminating these global threats requires the employment of methodologies rather than personal opinions.

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
~ Albert Einstein

The Venus Project proposes a holistic approach with a global socio-economic system that utilizes the most current technological and scientific advances to provide the highest possible living standard for all people on Earth. The proposed system is called Resource Based Economy. The term and meaning was coined by Jacque Fresco, the founder of The Venus Project.

PIMy0QBSQWo

In a Resource Based Economy all goods and services are available to all people without the need for means of exchange such as money, credits, barter or any other means. For this to be achieved all resources must be declared as the common heritage of all Earth’s inhabitants. Equipped with the latest scientific and technological marvels mankind could reach extremely high productivity levels and create abundance of resources.

Resource Based Economy concerns itself with three main factors, namely Environmental, Technological and Human. We invite you to investigate further into these factors and discover more about The Venus Project and Resource Based Economy.

https://www.thevenusproject.com/resource-based-economy/

Bubu
14th May 2017, 11:15
I am sure many here on PA would have many suggestions to add here. I think we could achieve this if we really put our minds and backs into it.

I move from place to place and work to work but my family never miss a single meal. Owning multiple vehicles and a nice house at one point to almost nothing. That my father refuse to go inside our house because its not a house by his standard. I am one who is not afraid to lose job because I know I can survive. Part of it maybe because I am a multi skilled person. But I think the biggest part of it is I am not choosy with just everything and i dont take pity on my status. I think most people is afraid of living in a scrap house. for me its an adventure. well not if you live in it all your life:). Our family motto is "life is an adventure" & "everything that is new is exciting". I think the secret to living nicely is to live modestly by your standard and of course acceptance of whatever is at hand comes to mind. I was once a victim of "nice house nice car" thinking but I learned early that its; nice life. As mentioned above I agree that work has very little bearing on the meaning of life.

Justplain
14th May 2017, 15:00
Justplain, I read with interest your three points to address this growing problem of loss of income in a world that still demands money. I am retired for nine years, now, with a little income from SS and a small rental aimed at mildly rich northamerican tourists. I had an advantage. I was able to setup my home here in the Andes mountains with savings that I had accumulated working as a software contractor in the USA. I used to joke that "I had fun playing with their computers and they PAID me too." Because I had the Knowledge, I had the POWER to successfully demand my salary. You might claim that, like the fictional Captain Kirk, I was able to talk my way out of any problems and thus never experienced the every-day issues of a debt-slave. Actually, my early life hadn’t been THAT easy, but I had always kept my debit level manageable and eventually bought my way out to freedom. That freedom was relative since although the banksters no longer owned my house, the government sure did. And the government also collected its commission for allowing me to work. I was able to avoid (by moving out of) the USA penalty for living and breathing - namely Obamacare.

Now about your three points, Justplain, I lived my teenage years on a farm (corn and beans and some animals) in Illinois. Like many others, we produced much of the food we ate. I think that can still be done. You must produce much more than you eat in order to sell the excess to pay for other living expenses. Keep in mind, though, that farming on any scale is inherently risky and thus not suited to everyone. After paying the taxes and the mortgage, and going into debt for seed, chemicals and minimal machinery, the farmer works hard for months hoping to avoid effects of any mistakes, bad weather, pestilence, and governmental eminent domain. :)

Your second point of the people attempting to control the government is, IMO, much more problematic. The ballot box is broken in the sense that usually the satanic elite have chosen both leading candidates. In fact, they create the leading candidates with their money and their ownership of the MSM. Time may show that even president Trump is owned by the elite and has been turned. There are already some indications of this.

I like your third point of a spiritual solution. That is the path that I have chosen. I am looking forward to more and more people choosing the spiritual path as they realize there is no better answer.

Hi Warren, i understand how difficult it is to run in the conventional debt slavery paradigm. Three examples i have come across seem to offer a viable alternative, two for raising your own food and the other as an independent living example:

a) Urban farming:
The Dervaes' urban homestead is sustainable and dense. They grow and raise 400 varieties of vegetables, fruits, and edible flowers that amount to about 6,000 pounds of food a year, enough to feed the family with surplus left over to sell. Fresh eggs from chickens round out their diet.

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b) an older lady i met once indicated that her mother had been growing most of the food her family ate when she was a child, in a backyard garden, that was big.

c). I know a self-admitted 'anarchist' who lives off grid (he has solar for his slight electrical needs) and although he doesnt grow much if his own food, he buys bulk organic supplies and cooks what he needs. He lives on food like millet porridge and similar foods and survives on less than $2000/year (half of which goes to property taxes).

So, there are three examples where one doesnt have to run a farm the conventional debt slavery way and still live on good organic food.

My family owns more than one property and has gardens on two of them. The food growing isnt sufficient to sustain us currently but could be expanded if required.

Regarding the political climate, i realize the siruation in the USA is dire. If i lived there i would concentrate on first cleaning up the local and state laws before tackling the federal level. America is a huge example where money runs the show. I hope the pending lawsuits against monsanto bear fruit so that there will be an incentive for a return to organic farming. Although trump appears to be a member of the controlled opposition (how can he reform by cutting taxes to his rich buddies in an already bankrupt country?), but his election may signal a grassroots growing discontent with the status corrupt quo. We can only hope.

Yes, if consciousness and spirit were the highest priority of our culture, a lot of our current issues would dissolve. I cant stand turning on the tube or radio to hear them telling me what i need to buy, etc. So i dont watch or listen unless i mute the commercials. A spiritual book once told me to 'selectively guard what gets fed to your subconscious because it can program the way you think'. If our priority is to advance our beingness, then we stand a chance to succeed.

wnlight
14th May 2017, 16:20
I like the concept of urban farming, and the 'farmers' there can share what they have grown. I remember as a boy selling eggs to neighbors while we lived in a small town for a few years. Now, about that $2000/year bit, don't get me wrong. It is quite an accomplishment to do such in the USA. Here in Ecuador we can live cheaply and buy food at the local mercado. The prices at the mercados are so low that I sometimes forget to bargain. :-) Real estate taxes on our large apartment are $26/year because of my age. A younger person would pay $260/year for the same property. (In Houston five years ago we paid about $4000/year at senior rates - same size house.) Living in Cuenca, Ecuador, at 8300 ft but near the equator, we have no need for A/C nor for central heating. We have no car expenses because the buses cost 25 cents, a taxi will charge $3 for across town, and anyway I can walk. We can use our savings for fantastic vacations.

Justplain
14th May 2017, 18:32
Sounds good, Warren. The cost of living and quality of life in Ecuador sounds inviting. I know that if things got significantly worse here in Canada, Ecuador is a place my family would consider moving to.

Are you within a jogging distance of Bill?

wnlight
14th May 2017, 23:49
Bill and I live about 45 Min apart by car.