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Truthster013
9th August 2017, 14:56
God is, by definition, an alien. I say this not to be offensive but to rule out those who cannot be intellectually honest with the Hebrew and Christian "scriptures". Even by a Christian understanding of he word, the "god" of the Bible was not created on earth nor does he live here, thus by definition he is alien to this world. The so-called angels and demons (in English parlance), are also by definition, aliens for the same reason. Then there are the Nephilim, the Watchers (Dead Sea scrolls), and the principalities of the air and the spiritual world described primarily by Paul all of which describe beings not of this world interacting with and influencing human behavior. Why then do many Christians reject the notion that aliens have been interfering with human history when their own writings document it as so?

I am a long time theologian and have long wanted to discuss with in intellectually honest and critical thinking biblical scholar the even deeper questions posed by the so-called Christian scriptures such as:

Is "god" and his "angels" one and he same as Sumerian Annunaki? If so, does this explain why the Hebrews circumcised their males (since the Anunnaki we're recorded to be uncircumcised as well)?

Why did the Hebrew writings reverse the "good" and "bad" guy from the older Babylonian creation story from which evidence suggest their own story derived?

Why did the ancient Sumarians and Babylonians revere the number seven long before the hebrews and perform a lot of similar rituals involving the sacrifice of bulls and blood?

Why did the early Christian church reject books of Hebrew scripture only hundreds of years after "Christ" died when he himself can be demonstrated as calling those books scripture (such as Jesus quoting the book of Enoch and calling it scripture)?

Can the "church" be proven to be hiding a major part of the story and reinterpreting that which they allow us to see to support their own new theology and claims to power?

Is the "god" of the Bible I Christians say he is or is he merely one of many "gods" that came here and simply the one that Israel chose to submit to? Is this "god" truly honest, just, good, etc based on what we know from the writings themselves?

I would enjoy having deep discussions and study on these topics and more with someone open minded and intellectually honest. I am not looking to fight and debate for the sake or arguing but welcome counterpoints to consider and discuss. This might best over email so as not to offend a lot of people but if you convince me it's worthy of discussing here we can try that. Any takers?

Lefty Dave
9th August 2017, 15:16
Greetings
Mauro Biglino is where you might want to research...he has written exstensively on this matter.
Blessings

Truthster013
9th August 2017, 15:17
Thank you for the suggestion. I have read a ton of information, books and watched videos. What I am looking for is someone to discuss it with.

Hervé
9th August 2017, 15:26
Just to make sure this one was included in your quest: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1131232&viewfull=1#post1131232

Truthster013
9th August 2017, 15:36
Thank you also. I will keep these sources in mind for further discussion but again, what I am looking for is to have intellectual dialogue with those who have studied such topics themselves and can give me some back and forth and various questions

Hervé
9th August 2017, 15:49
Well, good luck with that :)

As far as I am concerned, here is my conclusion after digesting Gmirkin (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1120106&viewfull=1#post1120106) summary of his scholar work:


[...]
If ever you take the time to listen to the above linked interview (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1120106&viewfull=1#post1120106) (<---) and which demonstrates the whole story as a Greek social engineering experiment, you may realize that anything derived from that so-called "Old Testament" becomes irrelevant... since they are artificial concoctions designed to turn any of the self-appointed priesthoods into slave masters.

That's the kind of disclosure that none of the Bible/Torah/Quran thumpers can stomach. That's a lot of people to have been conned...

That also makes for a lot of research, discussions and arguings irrelevant and pointless...

mojo
9th August 2017, 15:55
Chuck Missler is an awesome scholar but like other Pastors/Preachers/Teachers you will find most believe the ETs are a great deception/negative and should not be studied or contacted. Another researcher & scholar LA Marzulli continues to propagate the negative view. A few years ago a video with another excellent scholar Gary Stearman shared his amazing ET encounter which you can still find on the web with a good search, but he took his video down. I think he received pressure from other scholars to remove his testimony which was so important for a balanced view on this important subject. He was flying in his plane when electrical problems stopped the engine. The ET craft next to him helped get his airplane down, you should really read the article. Of course most on Avalon have a great perspective believing both good and bad types are out there and that is all I wanted LA Marzulli to say but he cant... nor did I find any other to support this view with Biblical perspective, but I think there are a few that remain quiet?

Truthster013
9th August 2017, 16:07
Thanks for the link. Please do not take this the wrong way but I would like for you or someone to articulate in their own words what you think not merely point me to someone else's research and saying that's what I think. You can start small and make a statement and I will seek clarification if needed. If it becomes obvious I need to review your source material I can do that.

Foxie Loxie
9th August 2017, 16:09
Right on, Herve!! :highfive Well, Truster013...I wonder what kind of "background" you are coming from? Personally, I spent my entire life within "The Bible is THE Word of God" crowd, but when that belief system ruined my entire life, I began to try & figure out what was wrong with it! My first discovery was that key words in the O.T. had been translated incorrectly. Than I began to wonder where exactly did this collection of books come from!

The "miracle" stories in the O.T. make perfect sense if you understand the "gods"(the word is plural in Gen.) were simply a higher race of beings working out some sort of agenda of their own that they had. At this point in time, my own personal conclusion is that whatever the true Jesus Movement was, it was hijacked by the Roman Gov't. & made into an institution with which to control the populace. It has worked for centuries! :facepalm:

Mauro Biglino IS a good resource to go to if one is serious in wanting to truly understand the O.T. Joseph Atwill is good for understanding the political situation around the time of the forming of the N.T. & the first century circumstances.

My conclusion is that The Bible is one of the greatest hoaxes played upon humanity to be used as a means of control. I am NOT a scholar, nor do I wish to get into any arguments. I have simply stated what my own research has led me to. A correct translation of the O.T. would be very helpful & that is something we have not had until Mauro Biglino, in my opinion.

All the best!! :highfive:

Truthster013
9th August 2017, 16:52
....Truster013...I wonder what kind of "background" you are coming from?

...My first discovery was that key words in the O.T. had been translated incorrectly....

The "miracle" stories in the O.T. make perfect sense if you understand the "gods"(the word is plural in Gen.) were simply a higher race of beings working out some sort of agenda of their own that they had.

At this point in time, my own personal conclusion is that whatever the true Jesus Movement was, it was hijacked by the Roman Gov't. & made into an institution with which to control the populace. It has worked for centuries! :facepalm:

My conclusion is that The Bible is one of the greatest hoaxes played upon humanity to be used as a means of control...

:highfive:

Outstanding. Thank you for taking the time to express your own opinions.
As to my background I was born and raised a conservative Christian, left the church in my early twenties and later became a far deeper student of Hebrew and ancient near eastern religion. My deep studies led me to a lot of he same conclusions as you. Namely that the God or gods of the Hebrew Bible were one and the same as various other gods of the ancient near East and that the OT stories were just a retelling of the history of alien beings interacting with people of earth. Like you, I found evidence that the scriptures were used as form of control over the masses.

However, where we MAY differ is on whether the Hebrew and Greek stories have any value. You may be more dismissive than I. Perhaps like me you are so angry at the church and well meaning Christians who treated you like **** that you anger keeps you from giving the writings any merit. I on the other hand think the writings did capture some important details. While they may have a Hebrew spin or a Christian re-interpretation, what we have there is still a history of sorts of an ancient alien species having interactions with man. It is worthy therefore in my opinion to use as a talking point and common frame of reference since most of us are familiar with the English translation of e Hebrew and Greek writings.

Nasu
9th August 2017, 18:07
Foxie is right, in my humble opinion, the bible is about control nothing more. That being said, I'm no deep thinking biblical scholar but I'll take a small bite at this with you...

As you no doubt know, the bible is not one book but many, 66 to 81 books, depending upon your point of reference. Chosen out of the many more apocryphal or "left out" books for their slant towards the key message of it's Judaeo roman founders. The key message being that "god" likes a certain type of behavior in his creation and not other behavior, therefore, ergo we must toe the party line if we want our ticket to get into the kingdom of heaven. It is a way to control our short lives with the promise of riches, virgins or everlasting happiness in the next life, a payment or reward for good work if you like..

Being gay for example, sodomy as the bible calls it, is frowned upon by "god" however any country boy or girl like myself knows that this message has not yet permeated to the animal kingdom, young male cows for example will love each other all day long and no priest or dire warnings of damnation will ever change that fact... So was god wrong, or is his creation like our cattle, gone wrong, or as I would argue, is our meager understanding of the creator wrong? After all our highly developed science tells us that bees should not be able to fly, yet they do so anyway.. Control is the key to the bible and it's use in society. When you see it for what it is it's power diminishes...

You make some great points about the Judaeo Cristian god being an extension of the Babylonian creator god Marduk and his seven layers of heaven and all his minions being some sort of alien species or conglomerate of species. But I don't see it like that any more, I just see it for what it is, control for the mind. These forms of organization within the cannon of the bible give the idea to the unwashed populous that even in heaven there are class structures that must be honored and perpetuated, as above so below right? After all the Drake Equation suggests that there are probably between 1000 and 100,000,000 civilizations in the Milky Way galaxy, so who's in charge? Someone or something we hope...

Clearly as biblical scholars have already pointed out, the bible seems to be talking about two very different gods. There is the old testament Judaeo god who will test us by asking us to kill our own children to show our faith and loyalty. He will knock down the walls of enemy cities for the just or righteous, or destroy whole civilizations who disobey his commandments, not guides or suggestions to live by mind you but dictatorial commands, so much for freedom of thought and the freedom to choose so called good from bad. Then there is the new testament Cristian god who is all about love and forgiveness, who sent his only son to die for our sins.. Not sure that worked out as he planned, but he does move in mysterious ways after all, so who knows..

When you refer to the church to be hiding a major part of the story and reinterpreting that story, allowing us to see only their own new theology and claims to power, which church do you speak of? Catholic? Or one of the 30,000 plus sub branches or denominations? In my opinion, they are merely reinterpretations for the local tribes and separate tribe's evolution's of thought, again control and sub controls IMHO. By this standard there has been a new interpretation of the truth so called 14 plus times every year since the birth of Christ or one a month ish over the past 2,017 years....

Lastly I would ask respectfully that you reflect on the facts of our existence rather than the childish story we have all been told. Is god good? Is god just? Does he or she take care of his creation? Or do the facts point to quite the opposite? If he or she were a farmer or manager would we say he or she has done a good job with their flock? Or perhaps as some theologians have observed could god be evil rather than good? Does his or her management style or behavior reflect an evil desire for suffering rather than kindness for "his" people? After all "he" loved us sooo much that he created an ever lasting perpetual Hell for those souls who transgressed or disobeyed him in this brief, short life....

There is the Greek philosophy of the cacodemon, an evil god, rather than a loving one, who gives a little happiness and a little pleasure only to dash it later as he enjoys the suffering of his underlings, suffering mind you that can only be felt in comparison to the fleeting taste of happiness that he allows us to experience? Who knows, but I would say that this idea seems to hold more water than the idea of a god who loves and cherishes us, certainly when we look about us and to our short history as a thinking hairless warrior ape fighting each other's tribes for resources and dominion over the land.

The strongest evidence for us being seeded here on this planet as a warring hairless ape, is that we clearly are not biologically designed for this world, compared with other mammals. Our teeth are too short and our claws or rather nails too soft for hunting, as we get older we get too slow to run after our food. Being hairless we need the skins of our prey to stay warm etc etc. Our evolutionary growth on this planet is a story of adaptation and invention to overcome our shortcomings, mind over matter if you like. For me this is the greatest argument for a god or originator of our species, our obvious weakness which we have had to overcome at every stage of our development. We still have found no clear missing link between us and the 14 or so other types of hominoid that has walked this earth, were they all in his or her image or is it perhaps a different story to the one we have been told?

As one bald warrior ape with little to no understanding of the meaning of life, I look forward to your thoughts on this interesting puzzle..x.... N

Foxie Loxie
9th August 2017, 19:25
Well, Nasu...now we know you are bald! :idea: Enjoyed what you wrote!

Thruthster013...Concerning the writings. I would place The Bible on the same level as any other ancient writings. My little "journey" is well documented here on Avalon. It floored me when I read the book of Enoch & realized that parts of it had been lifted & put into our Genesis! Reading Atra-Hasis further widened my view. I feel no anger, only the sad realization that humanity has been hookwinked for centuries!

Coming from such a narrow minded upbringing it was quite a shock for me to begin realizing what had really been going on & I'm thankful to the more mature members here who encouraged me in my search & helped me along. That seems to be what is special about Avalon....the non arrogance of members & the willingness to help one another. Each of us is on our own personal journey.

Just wondering if you have had any "supernatural" happenings in your life that seemed to be guiding you along a certain path? We all have our little histories, don't we?! I love to hear what others have lived through & how they have been able to handle "life"!! :Angel:

Nasu
9th August 2017, 19:48
My baldness is in my profile pic, I'm surprised you didn't notice it before. lol. x. You are right about us all experiencing things beyond our understanding though, or supernatural as you put it. I tend to think that the early religions were man's way of answering such mystery's on life's path. Like for example ghosts, having had two ghostly experiences myself I can well imagine early man wanting to know why such things exist.

I think it is part of the human condition or mind to fill in the gaps of our understanding.

For example a few years ago on the night before Easter I went into one of my children's rooms to tuck them in, only to find one of my boys deep into building some sort of fort out of cardboard boxes and rope, he was five or six at the time. Like most dads I told him to stop what he was up to and get into bed. As he climbed into bed I noticed some rope tied to his foot, leading out of bed to the structure he had made. I asked him what it was for and he replied that it was a trap for the rabbit. What rabbit I asked? He replied the Easter rabbit. Then I asked why the rope tied to his foot? He looked at me like I was stupid and said to drag him to the island of course. The Island, what island I asked? Again he looked incredulously at me and explained in his most patronizing voice that when he catches the rabbit it will drag him to Easter Island where all the chocolate is, there he would stay and eat chocolate until god caught him and sent him home!!! lol.

It is our nature to fill in the gaps of our understanding. Even if we are quite wrong....x... N

Foxie Loxie
9th August 2017, 20:49
Nasu....Can't stop laughing about Easter Island! :ROFL::ROFL::ROFL: That should be my destination as I'm a Chocoholic!!! Good point about filling in the gaps! The more one learns, the more one does NOT know! :clapping:

Truthster013
9th August 2017, 22:04
...in my humble opinion, the bible is about control nothing more....

Thank you very much for weighing in on this topic and sharing your feelings. I don't entirely agree with your statement above (though you are entitled to feel however you choose) for one key reason. I'm not convinced that the entire collection was originally written simply for the purpose of getting control over the masses. Maybe, as you say later on, the collection or "canon" as we call it, was assembled that best met that goal but I tend to believe that much of the original writings were merely historical (albeit quite biased history, but historical none the less). It may entirely be true that the ancient Hebrew priesthood created a system of control over the people with these writings and benefited from it nicely. For example, how nice was it for them to have every other tribe do all the hard labor and just freely give them the best tenth of all their goods because they were not to do the menial "work" like the rest of them? But I would posit that this might tell us more than we think. I'll get to that briefly.


As you no doubt know, the bible is not one book but many....chosen out of the many more apocryphal or "left out" books for their slant towards the key message of it's Judaeo roman founders. The key message being that "god" likes a certain type of behavior in his creation and not other behavior, therefore, ergo we must toe the party line if we want our ticket to get into the kingdom of heaven. It is a way to control our short lives with the promise of riches, virgins or everlasting happiness in the next life, a payment or reward for good work if you like..

You make some great points about the Judaeo Cristian god being an extension of the Babylonian creator god Marduk and his seven layers of heaven and all his minions being some sort of alien species or conglomerate of species. But I don't see it like that any more, I just see it for what it is, control for the mind. These forms of organization within the cannon of the bible give the idea to the unwashed populous that even in heaven there are class structures that must be honored and perpetuated, as above so below right? After all the Drake Equation suggests that there are probably between 1000 and 100,000,000 civilizations in the Milky Way galaxy, so who's in charge? Someone or something we hope...

...The strongest evidence for us being seeded here on this planet as a warring hairless ape, is that we clearly are not biologically designed for this world, compared with other mammals. Our teeth are too short and our claws or rather nails too soft for hunting, as we get older we get too slow to run after our food. Being hairless we need the skins of our prey to stay warm etc etc. Our evolutionary growth on this planet is a story of adaptation and invention to overcome our shortcomings, mind over matter if you like. For me this is the greatest argument for a god or originator of our species, our obvious weakness which we have had to overcome at every stage of our development. We still have found no clear missing link between us and the 14 or so other types of hominoid that has walked this earth, were they all in his or her image or is it perhaps a different story to the one we have been told?



Here we may be more in agreement. I can see the logic that the writings were selected that would best keep the power in the hands of the priesthood and writings that challenged that system would be discarded. I see evidence of that as well. But this is a thought I keep asking myself. What if the "gods" written about in the Bible DID tell people that they had to behave in a certain way? What if the priesthood were merely following what another higher class of beings taught them because that's how they themselves are governed? For example, as some researches have suggested, ancient writings seem to indicate that long ago a race of beings from another place came to our earth and found a planet teaming with life and began to mine our resources. But this society of beings had a class structure themselves and the "workers" of the Annunaki became angry at being treated as slaves by their higher caste system and rebelled. Depending on your interpretation of the writings, the Annunaki then may have simply taken the most advanced species on our planet at the time (a hairy neanderthal) and messed with it's genetics to create a new smarter species that could do the slave work for them.

As you allude to above, this new "man" doesn't seem to quite belong in the evolutionary chain. We suddenly lost our hair (which makes little evolutionary sense since we the had to immediately go find clothing to survive the elements) and we became smarter, capable of speech, etc. In the more ancient writings (before the Hebrew "Bible") one of the gods felt bad for the new slave class the "gods" created and told us that we were created like the gods themselves and did not have to be dumb beasts of the field. This "god" informed man that we were naked because in the eyes of the gods we are no different than any other beast of the field. For this man became "ashamed" of his nakedness because he realized now that he was cattle to the gods. Even in the Bible we see that Adam was first asked to find a mate from among the animals before the "gods" decided to make Eve. Only after Adam couldn't find ANOTHER beast of the field to mate with did the Hebrew scriptures tell us god made him a mate.

My point to all this is that the historical record is still important. In the older writings one could call the "god" who enlightened us and told us we were being treated as cattle as the "good" guy while the god or "gods" who wanted to keep us dumb naked beasts of the field could be the "bad" guy. So why did the Hebrews reverse this? Why did they make it a "sin" for man to be told they were merely beasts of the field? Why does "god" get angry and ask "Who told you you were naked????" The stories are too similar not to warrant discussion of what changed and why? Who changed it? Do the "gods" or some other race of beings want to keep us as slaves? Are they really out for our best interest? Or all we all just puppets they manipulate as they see fit?

Truthster013
9th August 2017, 22:13
Thruthster013...Concerning the writings. I would place The Bible on the same level as any other ancient writings....It floored me when I read the book of Enoch & realized that parts of it had been lifted & put into our Genesis! Reading Atra-Hasis further widened my view.

Right! I agree with this statement. I view the writings of the Bible important now for one basic reason. It's pretty "in tact" (more so than a lot of other ancient writings) but it is still just ONE version of the story. History is written by the victors. This is the Hebrew version. I find it worth discussing as a frame of reference but do not put it above writings of Enoch. Even in the day "Jesus" is said to exist, Enoch was a book considered "scripture" by his followers. It took hundreds of years to reject that book and many others that used to be called "scripture."


Just wondering if you have had any "supernatural" happenings in your life that seemed to be guiding you along a certain path?

Yes, I have had what I might call supernatural happenings in my life since I was young. I can't say that I'm being guided down any certain path however as all attempts to make sense of it and communicate with what I experience fails. But alas, I don't want to derail the conversation too much. That may be better as a side conversation. :)

Truthster013
9th August 2017, 22:24
One additional thought I wanted to get out regarding some statements above about "beasts of the field" is that I have often wondered about all the stories in which the "gods" ask us to be naked before them. Think of all the pagan sex rituals for example or even modern Wicca and the Skyclad cerimony. If there really are alien beings out there that view mankind as nothing more than mere "beasts of the field", how delighted they must be to command us to strip naked and return to the form of rutting animals before them and show ourselves to be the animals we are. :)

Nasu
9th August 2017, 23:02
You could be right. Perhaps there is some truth to the stories. But as has been said, the true intent or original meaning has been lost in the jumble of edits over time. I always found it amusing that man and his mate was cast out of Eden forever, but the snake as punishment for showing eve the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge was made to crawl on his belly for all time by god, lol, not much of a punishment for a snake eh?

It is difficult because of the biased edits over time, to discern the true story of creation and the true meaning of the latter books of the bible. There are glimpses here and there perhaps, but that may just be our imaginations. For example when Moses comes down from the mountain with the ten commandments, scholars have noted the similarities to the Egyptian book of the dead. Moses was supposedly trained in their ways so it does make some sense. The book of the dead was written as a guide to the living for when they passed to the underworld. It was a canonical collection of books like the bible, with spells and such to help the dead pass over. At the gates of the underworld, Thoth would ask the questions and Osiris and Isis would weigh their heart against a feather from the answers to the questions about their life, the book gave the living a series of answers so as to get past the gate. I forget now exactly how many but there were several hundred answers, they went something like this; I have not killed, I have not blasphemed, I have not taken the lords name in vain, I have not slept with my brothers wife, I have not stolen, etc etc. It has been postulated that the commandments were simply a reworking of this book into ten of the biggest transgressions, replacing I have not to thou shalt not.

I do think though that as rules for community living nine of the ten commandments are very good guides to harmonious living. The first of them is very wrong though and has caused more violence and wars than any other religious edict, IMHO, that is the first commandment that says; thou shalt have no other gods but me for I am a jealous god. Never mind that any god so insecure in their place of being is not worth the worship, but it clearly insinuates via simple logic that there must be other gods for which our god gets jealous of, it also gives the faithful complete license to destroy or kill any person or group who follows or worships a different god or faith. In my arrogance I would change it to; thou shalt respect thy neighbors faith...

I do find it an interesting idea that we were seeded as some sort of beast of burden for the originator gods. Perhaps as you say from some primate experiment. The gods then squabbled about our position as a slave race and fought over us, one side winning and one side losing, with a promise to return one day. So many ancient religions talk of a war between the gods, over their creation, us. The Chinese creation myth for example of Sun Wukong or master monkey or the monkey king, talks of how the gods created man from a monkey out from a jade egg and had to teach him the god's ways of civilization, like us he was always getting into trouble and was very rebellious. In India, there was the monkey called Hanuman, the incarnation of the god Shiva and is considered the most powerful and intelligent among the pantheon of Indian Gods.

It is an interesting coincidence that now we have a small understanding of genetics, doctors have noted that only one bone exists within our frame that could be removed without damaging the host or any significant harm, one useless bone if you like, our last rib bone on our rib-cage. Full of marrow and DNA....

What I don't like about the bible or other creation myths for that matter is the idea that our gifts are simply god given. I have observed as an armchair historian that our development and growth has been slow, painful and hard won over the six thousand years or so of our recorded history. To give any credit to another progenitor race fails to see that only through adversity have we developed our strength. Like a tree that grows without wind or severe weather, their roots are shallow. Our roots are deep because of the harsh conditions of our history. Perhaps the gods created us to be their warriors, to fight their wars? An experiment still in the making perhaps? Given our violent nature and history of overcoming exceptional hardships, that would make the most sense to me....x.... N

Sojourner
9th August 2017, 23:26
Loooooooong story short.

God through his only son Jesus Christ create creation completely perfect and full of pure light.

One third of the beings decide themselves to be god and led by the primordial archangel Lucifer (now the devil) rebel against the God head. (Father,Son,Holy Spirit)

God judges the rebellious beings and casts them out of the higher realms and curses them with death.

God then through his mercy and love creates a plan to save as many of the cursed beings as he can.

God incarnates the souls of cursed beings into lowly earthlings.

God sends his only Son Jesus Christ Himself to come down and take the curse of death upon Himself and reconcile as many beings as to to back to the God Head.

I hope that helps lol, I'm Christian and that's how I see the story.

Nasu
9th August 2017, 23:55
Loooooooong story short.

God through his only son Jesus Christ create creation completely perfect and full of pure light.

One third of the beings decide themselves to be god and led by the primordial archangel Lucifer (now the devil) rebel against the God head. (Father,Son,Holy Spirit)

God judges the rebellious beings and casts them out of the higher realms and curses them with death.

God then through his mercy and love creates a plan to save as many of the cursed beings as he can.

God incarnates the souls of cursed beings into lowly earthlings.

God sends his only Son Jesus Christ Himself to come down and take the curse of death upon Himself and reconcile as many beings as to to back to the God Head.

I hope that helps lol, I'm Christian and that's how I see the story.

I do hope that I / we have not insulted your world view. That was most definitely not my intention. If so I am very sorry...edit - off topic - back to topic - .....x.... N

Truthster013
10th August 2017, 02:05
I do think though that as rules for community living nine of the ten commandments are very good guides to harmonious living. The first of them is very wrong though and has caused more violence and wars than any other religious edict, IMHO, that is the first commandment that says; thou shalt have no other gods but me for I am a jealous god. Never mind that any god so insecure in their place of being is not worth the worship, but it clearly insinuates via simple logic that there must be other gods for which our god gets jealous of, it also gives the faithful complete license to destroy or kill any person or group who follows or worships a different god or faith. In my arrogance I would change it to; thou shalt respect thy neighbors faith...


This has a great point on it. It is oft overlooked that statements like "you shall no other gods besides me (or before me)" implies by it's nature that there are other gods. The warning is not to revere or worship any of the other "gods". Just as Paul says in the New Testament "For we know that there are many gods, but for us there is just one" (paraphrase my own). Again, the New Testament confirms that there are indeed "other gods". There are dozens of more examples of the "god" of the Bible legitimatizing other gods as being "real" but simply forbidding his people to worship them. Modern Christianity has, in my opinion, come up with fancy explanations to ignore these statements by saying things like "What Paul really means is that you can make anything your "god" but you are not to have anything you value more than "god". I would argue that's not what it actually says, that's the new explanation to avoid the question, "what other gods is he talking about?"

I have read theologians who believe that YHWH was simply a local "god" that Moses' wife, a Medianiate, worshipped. This mountain god that she introduced Moses to believed in circumcision and was a war like "god" bent on conquest which is something Moses found appealing at the time. These of course are arguable at best and many believe "moses" did not even exist or if he did that he was an Egyptian high priest. The point being is that a pretty good argument can be made that YHWH on the mountain is not even the same "god" that is depicted in the first few chapters of Genesis. Many believe there is a distinct difference for example between "El" and "YHWH". One version of the creation story in Genesis (as there are actually two creation stories with different things happening on different days) does not use the word YHWH at all, the second one does. Some have argued that the Levites preferred the version with YHWH their new fire warrior "god" and insisted on including the second version of creation in the book along with the "softer" version that was already there. I'm not making a great case for that, just mentioning it.

Truthster013
10th August 2017, 02:12
Loooooooong story short.

....One third of the beings decide themselves to be god and led by the primordial archangel Lucifer (now the devil) rebel against the God head. (Father,Son,Holy Spirit)...

Growing up this was always one of the "stories" that bothered me a great deal. If "gods" way is so perfect how is that that literally one out of every three of those who know him VERY well and see him EVERY day rebelled? I could understand maybe one "bad seed" deciding maybe there was a better way, but one out of three? That is a great deal of disagreement in a "perfect" plan.

Taking out emotions and such, the story does support the version of the Annunaki legend. What is recorded is that there was a rebellion among the "gods" and some broke off from the others. This is in agreement with the story of the Annunaki slaves that rebelled against their masters.

ghostrider
10th August 2017, 02:21
Jehovah was an ET, his son Jehav, then his son Karmangol were just as blood thirsty, demanding blood and sacrifice for disobedience... the 200 scientist under King Arus ( the man in charge before Jehovah)called themselves the sons of heaven, and the creators of creation... they secretly went behind the back of king Arus and mated with wild earth females (evas) and the mating produced adam , semjasa was adams father eve was adams mother, other scientist mated with wild evas and a female was produced, eventually Adam was mated with one of the females and from this present day mankind developed... early man thought they were angels, nope just higher evolved humans from another galaxy... Jehovah was killed by his son jehav, and the sons of heaven eventually developed a degree of spirituality and decided to leave the newly created humans to the natural course of evolution, and they returned to the pleadies where they live in an allied federation of peace with the plejaren to this day... The Plejaren sometimes called the watchers, keep very detailed information about earths past... They have been helping us along for 13,500 years now... they follow one particular spirit form wherever it incarnates, we know it as Enoch Isaiah Elijah Jeremiah Imannuel Muhammad and BEAM... the thread of spirit teachings is common among all religions because its been the same teacher incarnating in different bodies over many epochs... the plejaren bring the personalities up to speed on former lives, and mentor him, they are always looked at as angels for they have a glow about them... the spirit teaching is corrupted by evil men to control other men but, the core principles remain ... they the plejaren have lifespans of 1,000 to 1,500 years, we used to live 1,000 years, now since the rouge scientist altered our genes we only live 80-100 years... I need to stop, the story is deeper than you know ... time is short, we will take another 700 years until we get th he lesson the watchers have been trying to teach us... we will repeat the same mistakes as they did, which is what they have been trying to help us avoid...

Nasu
10th August 2017, 03:12
Jehovah was an ET, his son Jehav, then his son Karmangol were just as blood thirsty, demanding blood and sacrifice for disobedience... the 200 scientist under King Arus ( the man in charge before Jehovah)called themselves the sons of heaven, and the creators of creation... they secretly went behind the back of king Arus and mated with wild earth females (evas) and the mating produced adam , semjasa was adams father eve was adams mother, other scientist mated with wild evas and a female was produced, eventually Adam was mated with one of the females and from this present day mankind developed... early man thought they were angels, nope just higher evolved humans from another galaxy... Jehovah was killed by his son jehav, and the sons of heaven eventually developed a degree of spirituality and decided to leave the newly created humans to the natural course of evolution, and they returned to the pleadies where they live in an allied federation of peace with the plejaren to this day... The Plejaren sometimes called the watchers, keep very detailed information about earths past... They have been helping us along for 13,500 years now... they follow one particular spirit form wherever it incarnates, we know it as Enoch Isaiah Elijah Jeremiah Imannuel Muhammad and BEAM... the thread of spirit teachings is common among all religions because its been the same teacher incarnating in different bodies over many epochs... the plejaren bring the personalities up to speed on former lives, and mentor him, they are always looked at as angels for they have a glow about them... the spirit teaching is corrupted by evil men to control other men but, the core principles remain ... they the plejaren have lifespans of 1,000 to 1,500 years, we used to live 1,000 years, now since the rouge scientist altered our genes we only live 80-100 years... I need to stop, the story is deeper than you know ... time is short, we will take another 700 years until we get th he lesson the watchers have been trying to teach us... we will repeat the same mistakes as they did, which is what they have been trying to help us avoid...

In your opinion, what would you say that the mistake is that we should avoid?....x.. N

Truthster013
10th August 2017, 03:15
... then his son Karmangol were just as blood thirsty, demanding blood and sacrifice for disobedience... the 200 scientist under King Arus ( the man in charge before Jehovah)

... I need to stop, the story is deeper than you know ... time is short, we will take another 700 years until we get th he lesson the watchers have been trying to teach us... we will repeat the same mistakes as they did, which is what they have been trying to help us avoid...

There is a whole bunch of things you said there that I'm unfamiliar with. Can you point me to some sources of where you get these sort of statements about "Karmangol" and King Arus? Lastly, can you briefly explain why you have to run and time is short then add that it will take 700 more years? Time is short for what? Why do you have to run because time is short? I'm curious about some of your information but I'd like some source material to review a bit if you don't have time to slow down a bit and cover it one step at a time. Thank you for sharing!

Callista
10th August 2017, 05:20
If you want some good info to ponder on, I highly recommend Joseph P Farrell's book "Yahweh the Two-Faced God"

https://www.amazon.com/Yahweh-Two-Faced-God-Terrorism-Apocalypse/dp/0985021101

Ernie Nemeth
10th August 2017, 07:57
The bible as a source of historical information is limited, edited, occulted, and misrepresented.

There is growing evidence that the bible is just a remnant of a far older tradition. Some of the earliest writings actually fill out the story in the bible, often superseding its message by thousands of years.

Interesting that Ghostrider left out Christ as a master, along with Enoch and company. And I have never heard of Beam.

Genesis is the most suspicious of all the works in the bible. It starts out wrong, not beginning with Aleph - and never recovers its veracity from there forwards. The bible's creation story is merely a truncated version of a much older work, sometimes called the Enuma Elish or The Seven Tablets of Creation. In that writing it is evident that their were 'alien' beings on earth far before our time. The bible starts out with a lie and never lets up, but because it has been purposely altered evidence of this tampering can be uncovered. One such is the use of the plural when talking about god. There are many others.

The core message of the bible was removed when the patriarchy succeeded with their coup. James, Mary, and Judas were left out, among others. Their message is counter, almost anathema to the rest of the writers' works.

EFO
10th August 2017, 09:06
When I was a small child my mother (Orthodox) told me a prayer for kids before going to bed,which I learned it when I was able to speak and I kneeling on the side of the bed and say that prayer.All good and well until one day when my grandmother (Catholic) told me the story of Adam and Eve in which both of them where banned out of the heaven.After she ended telling the story I asked her why the god didn't let them eat the apple? She didn't answer and that was the moment in which I ended any relations with religion.Later I found that the knowledge is power.

Growing I found that:
-people are going to church and ask all kind of things;
-people are doing certain rituals;
-people are offering money to church/priests;
-Christmas is not such a big religious holiday as Easter;
and I always ask myself "Why people are wasting their time doing things like that instead doing things that really matter for them?"

Since my teenage I saw different approaches of Christian religion from my family,friends,acquaintances and strangers and I saw that all have the same behavior and from time to time I tried to understand them and find a meaning of this behavior and I didn't find it,but is still curious how that they do the same thing all and all over again waiting for something.

Before reading some parts of the Bible other books came at hand- Daniel,Enoch,Dead Sea scrolls (very interesting in their content and with a sense) - and after that I opened the Bible to certain chapters.Still not found any answers.On the other hand a few years ago I have an idea:instead of trying understand the meaning of what is written in the Bible sitting on Earth and watching the sky,I moved my reading point somewhere between the Moon and Earth and from there some written things start to make sense -especially First Testament (Statement as I called it now) and I will explain in the following.

Apocalypse.As we know is something bad.From ancient Greek,as far as I read, it means unveiling or lifting the veil,but in Dacian language is something different based on two words Apoca-lypse (Apoca -a word also found in Romanian means to grab or to hold and lypse - lipsa a word also found in Romanian means lack of,deficiency of and other similar meanings) so lack of grabbing or don't need to have this as I understand it.

An other fact is that abductees presenting facts that IEBEs (Intelligent Extraterrestrial Beings Entities) are showed them images with Earth destroyed for different reasons.

Not deserved to mentioned here but it have a point related to the four horses of apocalypse.
Wernher von Braun's disclosed plan to Carol Rosin of four fabricated/artificial created threats by over heated minds:
-Union Soviet Socialist Republics;
-terrorists;
-asteroids and
-alien invasion.

As far as I understand above related observations are somehow similar with Daniel story.

Other words are:
- Havila(h).Walhala?Valahi?Vala(c)hia?
-Enoc(h).Cone?Con? and so on.

Further I will not describe other things from the Bible,but I will add that the Bible is a description of events that are looping over and over to all known and unknown civilizations that inhabit the Earth from its beginning and is better to read the Bible as a third party because is giving a better understanding of what the authors tried to describe in theirs times and with theirs knowledge of understanding.

We have to see the entire picture and not only details.The whole and all details are bonding the entire picture.

I'm not a religious,mystic or meditative person.
I am what I am,no more no less.

Tintin
10th August 2017, 10:23
Well, good luck with that :)

As far as I am concerned, here is my conclusion after digesting Gmirkin (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1120106&viewfull=1#post1120106) summary of his scholar work:


[...]
If ever you take the time to listen to the above linked interview (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1120106&viewfull=1#post1120106) (<---) and which demonstrates the whole story as a Greek social engineering experiment, you may realize that anything derived from that so-called "Old Testament" becomes irrelevant... since they are artificial concoctions designed to turn any of the self-appointed priesthoods into slave masters.

That's the kind of disclosure that none of the Bible/Torah/Quran thumpers can stomach. That's a lot of people to have been conned...

That also makes for a lot of research, discussions and arguings irrelevant and pointless...

Hervé: :bigsmile: my conclusion as well. The most successful PsyOp in this manifestation of human-kind, bar none. What a money spinner!

Michael Tsarion has asserted, correctly, that amongst other things this 'Bible' (Book of the gods - spot the use of El in its name?) is an astrotheological treatise, coded and understood by those with '..eyes to see and ears to hear'. Period.

Serious students of this piece of propaganda, and that is what it is, propaganda, could benefit from reading Lloyd M. Graham's: 'Deceptions and Myths of the Bible'. And in my view should undertake a crash course in Astrology and Numerology (which, surprise surprise is discouraged by the authors of this propaganda as they don't take kindly to you playing with their toys) with a little helping of Astronomy thrown in for good measure. These serve as a cipher.

And need I also stress, again, as I have elsewhere that Jesus Christ simply means and directly points to 'Yes, You' - that is what it means etymologically.

Mystery solved and now on to the continuing job and responsibility I have, and we all have, to in the most positive way continue as best I can to evolve spiritually and onwards to greater self realisation and endeavouring to be as kind and loving as possible to all without recourse to devotion or worship of anything. Most of all not worshipping what we have been palmed off with by the architects of awfulness with which we have to battle with seemingly endlessly.

Truthster013
10th August 2017, 13:11
Thank you all who have contributed to this thread thus far. I have enjoyed reading and discussing things a so far. Unfortunately I'm not quite finding what I was looking for and I think perhaps some of you have missed my point because I was not clear enough about what I was seeking. I am not looking for a "Bible Scholar" because I "believe in the Bible". A lot of people are pointing to me works proving the Bible to be in error. I'm long past that. I know the Bible is full of error (maybe not for the same reasons as some of the stated authors, etc) but I agree with the general concept.

Basically I'm starving for regular intellectual conversation with someone who has a common background as I. I have been a long time student of the "Bible" because I was born into and indoctrinated into it. As I grew older and began to question everything I realized that in particular the Christian religion did not remotely follow their own writings and had dismissed clear "commandments" and substituted instead very pagan concepts and rituals in their place because it was easier and more fun. In particular, one writer of the Bible (Paul) came along and self-claimed to be an apostle (though he was not hand-picked by "Jesus" like the twelve who were said to have rulership in his coming kingdom) and changed the entire religion forever. Paul taught completely contrary to 3/4's or more of the Bible and the masses ate it up. It became the "gospel of Paul" and arguable Paul became more quoted and loved than the so called example of a Christian's faith, Jesus. I wrote a book on the subject which is on Amazon for free in the Kindle Library even called Paulianity. But I am NOT a Christian nor do I accept the Bible as factual any longer (nor at the time of writing the book). My point was that people in the religion are not remotely following their own teachings.

Having said all that, my entire goal was to find someone who has a similar background because years ago I had a best friend whom we had many, many hours of long thoughtful discussion over various other ancient near eastern writings, the books of Zachariah Sitchin, Hoaglin, Donnikan (spelling all of these wrong I'm sure), etc. I found it FACINATATING to discuss the overlap of ancient stories and such with things hinted at and aluded to in the Bible. Not for the purpose of proving the Bible wrong but more for the "wow, this **** was in the Bible all along and we didnt' see it". I enjoyed for example learning just how common ancient thought was that angels (or beings from the sky) came down and had sexual relations with women. The so called Christian Bible hides it now pretty well but it's there in several places plain as day if you know the stories from other writings. You can see the Biblical writers hinting at it, aluding to it, and even at times potentially quoting from it. All of that goes unnoticed by most "christians" because they refuse to look at the other writings. Much of it also goes unnoticed by those who aren't Christians because they don't read the Bible. I enjoy discussing both...where things show up and how those stories influenced the writers, etc.

Tintin
10th August 2017, 13:19
Right on, Herve!! :highfive Well, Truster013...I wonder what kind of "background" you are coming from? Personally, I spent my entire life within "The Bible is THE Word of God" crowd, but when that belief system ruined my entire life, I began to try & figure out what was wrong with it! My first discovery was that key words in the O.T. had been translated incorrectly. Than I began to wonder where exactly did this collection of books come from!

The "miracle" stories in the O.T. make perfect sense if you understand the "gods"(the word is plural in Gen.) were simply a higher race of beings working out some sort of agenda of their own that they had. At this point in time, my own personal conclusion is that whatever the true Jesus Movement was, it was hijacked by the Roman Gov't. & made into an institution with which to control the populace. It has worked for centuries! :facepalm:

Mauro Biglino IS a good resource to go to if one is serious in wanting to truly understand the O.T. Joseph Atwill is good for understanding the political situation around the time of the forming of the N.T. & the first century circumstances.

My conclusion is that The Bible is one of the greatest hoaxes played upon humanity to be used as a means of control. I am NOT a scholar, nor do I wish to get into any arguments. I have simply stated what my own research has led me to. A correct translation of the O.T. would be very helpful & that is something we have not had until Mauro Biglino, in my opinion.

All the best!! :highfive:

Absolutely Loxie, absolutely. Also, if there was a movement at all, which is probably likely: a resistance to an unpopular regime is nothing new is it? - its leader did not have the name attributed to him (why is it always men heh?) and was certainly no miracle worker. It's a ridiculous, the 'saviour', assertion, that has no evidence, at all, attached to it. It's a STORY, and a tall one at that. (For a more humorous take on the ridiculousness of this whole shenanigans I often suggest a visit to George Carlin and his: Religion is B******t sketch.)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE

Although I have absolutely nothing against anyone who chooses to follow religions - that is their business after all - my experiences dovetail yours closely and the sense of enormous freedom that came from abandoning that lifestyle choice have hurtled me into this extraordinarily meaningful odyssey, which has and remains spiritually nourishing.

Foxie Loxie
10th August 2017, 14:08
I had never seen that Carlin skit...too funny! :bigsmile: Freedom is a good word to use Tintin & I have actually said how "freeing" it is not to have to reside within the box I was raised in!! To be able to explore & TRY to figure out what has been going on! Huge thanks to Avalon! :highfive:

Truthster013....I would agree that what we have been left with is Pauline Christianity. Interesting that you have written a book on that! How about your writing a book on the comparisons of ALL ancient writings to see what they have in common concerning our "beginnings"?! In the Western mindset we have been taught that all other cultures' writings are "myths". To me it has been interesting to see that as Christianity spread throughout the world it destroyed the writings of the cultures it encountered; quite a controlling venture! Sorry you can't find what you were looking for here, but it IS a great group to interact with & trust you will continue sharing with us! :Angel:

Hervé
10th August 2017, 14:17
Right there: Plato and his administrative division of conquered territories into "tribes"... 12 of them "tribes" with their "Patriarchs" (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1122555&viewfull=1#post1122555)... verbatim:


(... not hand-picked by "Jesus" like the twelve who were said to have rulership in his coming kingdom)

Truthster013
10th August 2017, 14:41
....How about your writing a book on the comparisons of ALL ancient writings to see what they have in common concerning our "beginnings"?! In the Western mindset we have been taught that all other cultures' writings are "myths". To me it has been interesting to see that as Christianity spread throughout the world it destroyed the writings of the cultures it encountered; quite a controlling venture!

So many topics and so little time. I love to study that exact thing you mention. Also being a student the history of secret societies in the like I have found that groups (including the church) have quite likely sacked major libraries (such as the one at Alexandria) and kept the history books of other peoples hidden in vaults for only a select few to see because they have literally re-written history and only want to acknowledge the version his history THEY want us to know. It makes me sick to my stomach to think that there is so much information sitting in a vault someplace and that we could be lied to every day by the people who we trust all the while them knowing what hey are telling us are lies. Grrr.... I digress.

Truthster013
10th August 2017, 14:58
Right there: Plato and his administrative division of conquered territories into "tribes"... 12 of them "tribes" with their "Patriarchs" (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1122555&viewfull=1#post1122555)... verbatim:


(... not hand-picked by "Jesus" like the twelve who were said to have rulership in his coming kingdom)

Despite what the Roman's may have done, I find it more fascinating to consider this line from the Hebrew writings:

"When the Most High apportioned the nations, when he divided humankind, he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the gods; the LORD's own portion was his people, Jacob his allotted share." - Deut 32:8-9

In that one sentence alone we have hints at several things. One, there are multiple gods referenced in the Hebrew writings. Two, the "god" of the Hebrew people was just one of many gods and was merely the "god" appointed over Jacob and his descendants. Other stories outside of the "Bible" discuss the gods dividing up mankind among themselves. The Christian notion of a "god of the world" somewhat contradicts the statement that one of the gods picked the Hebrews to be his people. This god didn't get them all, only those who made a covenant with him to follow him. So what are the other "gods"? Who are they? Many writings seem to help shed light on it and I find that fascinating.

Lefty Dave
10th August 2017, 15:14
Greetings

https://archive.org/details/age_reason_0910_librivox/age_of_reason_26_paine.mp3 Listen to this and you will find all your answers...I haven't heard your questions yet, so I don't know what more to offer!
Blessing

Truthster013
10th August 2017, 15:20
Greetings

https://archive.org/details/age_reason_0910_librivox/age_of_reason_26_paine.mp3 Listen to this and you will find all your answers...I haven't heard your questions yet, so I don't know what more to offer!
Blessings

Lefty, just some friendly ribbing here. If you haven't heard all my questions how can you say all my questions are answered in the audio? :)

Foxie Loxie
10th August 2017, 15:48
Thanks, Lefty Dave, for the link...hope to get into it! I vaguely remember hearing about George Washington having to distance himself from Paine because of his writings. It would make sense if he was pushing logical thinking & not adhering to established "rules" of social behavior of the day! When you stop & think about it, many of the ruling class of that day here in the U.S. would have been members of what we now know as the Episcopal Church. They would have been members of the Church of England. So the prescribed beliefs & conduct would have governed within the social sphere of that time. :rapture:

Lefty Dave
10th August 2017, 20:45
Greetings Avalonians,,

I bit the antagonists' hook....but spit it out quickly...


end of line.

Foxie Loxie
10th August 2017, 21:15
Lefty Dave....I have NO idea what you meant by "I bit the antagonists' hook..."! :Angel:

Ernie Nemeth
11th August 2017, 08:30
I'd guess the hook to let us know what he thinks of the bible - antagonist = nothing good

Callista
11th August 2017, 10:11
Check out Joseph P Farrell's interviews on the Byte Show - they are old ones but good ones on a variety of concepts, including the religious questions posed on this thread:

http://www.thebyteshow.com/JosephPFarrell.html

ghostrider
11th August 2017, 12:01
Contact report#9 of the Billy Meier Contacts, you can find it at the futureofmankind.uk. .. also at theyfly.com, BeamofLight.com, meiersaken.info, Creationaltruth.org, giaguys.net, any number of the wendell stevens youtube videos will give you tons of information on their five year long investigation with tom welsh and lee and britt elders as the scientific research team ... also take a look at any of the michael horn interviews on youtube, I have followed the case for over 10 years... wendell gives information that wasn't published, like how the CIA tried to hamper the investigation but, the plejaren played the CIA like a fiddle, snatching secret files from locked safes and beaming them into wendells hotel room the next day ... causing the phone to rin ten times on a six lobe system which is impossible by the way...

Foxie Loxie
11th August 2017, 14:23
Thanks for the link, Callista! In a nutshell!! The Bible was put together by some group if "elites" in order to control the populace. The sad part is...it has worked for centuries!! :facepalm:

Lifebringer
11th August 2017, 14:39
If you want answers and not fight then may I suggest GOCC aka Gathering of Christ Church or AGATHERING144 on Youtube. The prophets and scholars are now teaching our people who didn't know who they were, and who the real "ESAU" aka SAU-E Saudi government that played with daemons and supernatural. I would steer clear of others as they are like John the Baptist right now in accusation and crying loud unto the lost tribes to repent so we come out of captivity as promised. They are rather pissed that this information was never shared in our churches or any other church and then to find that the meeting in Nicea was to wipe Israel out of the history/nations. Seriously, they aren't monkeying around anymore with this and they are calling out the coonGentile taught Hebrew Y'sraelites and the sisters to take the "man's clothing off" and be modest in appearence before God.
GOCC with Elder Rachaard and Elder Lawyer are the est and I've always suspected, shhh...(two winesses) on earth at this time. They are good in the understanding and they answer Gentile questions on what they must do to get into the Kingdom/land promised to Y'acob's seed, Yudah.

Lifebringer
11th August 2017, 14:54
Well the ONE:muscle: the Hebrews worshiped prophecies and curses, were the only ones that came true in the world.:Angel: Flood, nuke wars if the past, plagues and now "the microchip, that registers buying and selling/mark of the beast. very impressive for prophets 2000 years ago.:highfive: All the other books speak of the Hebrew God's Son, as KING of Kings and Lord over the lords, with a FATHER in Heaven that gave Creation LAW to their/Hebrew prophet Moshe. I would also remember, that under the threat their their name would be blotted out the book of eternal life, if they changed the word, elites simply removed the Apocrypha that was a missing link to the world on WHO THE HEBREW ISRAELITE God was. Christ was born of the "Tribe of Yudah." Those who are destined for hell/punishment according to their deeds, will try and gather more that are unaware/deceived by the image of "Caesar Borgia as the Christ when Christ is describe in John the Revelator's testimony of being like burnt brass and white wool like hair. this shock alone will bring the deceived to their knees before God in repentance for rejecting HIS Son. End times, and this certainly isn't the time to worship wood or stone, when wood or stone created not the world or Universe, but was created by man in idols. All the books mention this one Vengeful God that will destroy nations if "the apple of HIS eye is touched." We're been severely touched and JUDGEMENT has begun with the winds and flooding as a plea. HE will take it all, if we aren't made whole as scripture says. Elites changed Africa's borders and divided up in lots for themselves and called their nations by their language or streets after themselves. Puerto Ricans aren't "the Rich Port people." They are the tribe of Ephraim. Native American continent tribes of aboriginals, Tribe of Gad. Pardon this byword fest but it must be written for those to understand. "Niggers, blacks, coons, apes, monkeys, so-called African/American aka 2 continents named after colonist are "Tribe of Yudah."Deuteronomy 28:14 - 68.:highfive: There are many others that I can name here, while the fakers are in Y'srael now, but that too will change soon by God of Gods mighty hand again. Not too many prophecies left to be fulfilled and "we are in the 6th seal."

Shhh..."ther is to be a 2nd Exodus from the land of the eagle and the North." It's written therefore to tell the Gentiles, if Christ didn't put HIS flock there in Y'srael, then they are Rev 3:9. Again the prophecy from 2000 years ago, once again coming true.:clapping:WE going home, halleluYah!!! Home. Our chariots are coming as foretold on the walls and this will be th only generation that hasn't put the warnings on the walls for future remnant. SMH:silent: Blue Kachina and Red Kachina in the sky as Gad as said, and the "black snake crossing the Missouri is the oil pipe line under protest as we speak.

Caesar Borgia image = "An illigitimate child of 6th POPE who was a Gay pedophile murdering rapist. What a tricky evil deed Lucifer has done through the RCC and kingly ones. smh and praying for those to have an ear, before it's too late, but nobody listens to us?:facepalm:

Lifebringer
11th August 2017, 15:36
Speaking of which(hidden info in some vault) Vatican or other private collection; "YES, THEY WERE BLACK.com" tells "you" all they hid but the recent Roswell stuff, and the culprits doing the changing, are photographed actually doing it when you scroll down the page.

Franny
12th August 2017, 06:20
You make some good points and ask some good questions. Now I have some:

1. What is the actual word used for "Most High" and to whom did it refer?
2. Ditto on "the LORD"

Who and what were they and where can we find the answer? I have looked, but have not found out yet. Anyone know?


"When the Most High apportioned the nations, when he divided humankind, he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the gods; the LORD's own portion was his people, Jacob his allotted share." - Deut 32:8-9.

ghostrider
12th August 2017, 14:38
Jehovah was an ET, his son Jehav, then his son Karmangol were just as blood thirsty, demanding blood and sacrifice for disobedience... the 200 scientist under King Arus ( the man in charge before Jehovah)called themselves the sons of heaven, and the creators of creation... they secretly went behind the back of king Arus and mated with wild earth females (evas) and the mating produced adam , semjasa was adams father eve was adams mother, other scientist mated with wild evas and a female was produced, eventually Adam was mated with one of the females and from this present day mankind developed... early man thought they were angels, nope just higher evolved humans from another galaxy... Jehovah was killed by his son jehav, and the sons of heaven eventually developed a degree of spirituality and decided to leave the newly created humans to the natural course of evolution, and they returned to the pleadies where they live in an allied federation of peace with the plejaren to this day... The Plejaren sometimes called the watchers, keep very detailed information about earths past... They have been helping us along for 13,500 years now... they follow one particular spirit form wherever it incarnates, we know it as Enoch Isaiah Elijah Jeremiah Imannuel Muhammad and BEAM... the thread of spirit teachings is common among all religions because its been the same teacher incarnating in different bodies over many epochs... the plejaren bring the personalities up to speed on former lives, and mentor him, they are always looked at as angels for they have a glow about them... the spirit teaching is corrupted by evil men to control other men but, the core principles remain ... they the plejaren have lifespans of 1,000 to 1,500 years, we used to live 1,000 years, now since the rouge scientist altered our genes we only live 80-100 years... I need to stop, the story is deeper than you know ... time is short, we will take another 700 years until we get th he lesson the watchers have been trying to teach us... we will repeat the same mistakes as they did, which is what they have been trying to help us avoid...

In your opinion, what would you say that the mistake is that we should avoid?....x.. N Allowing our leaders to walk the path for power and might, e need to elect leaders who are spirit minded first, then doing everything in balance with nature... A council of the smartest people, instead of lawyers who only care about money ...

ghostrider
12th August 2017, 14:58
Present the facts , in a neutral way, give both sides of the issue, then one hour later everyone votes on it... That is the way the plejaren settle any issue. .A sound is made global, then everyone reports to small machines like atms, they read the law/document, then they cast their vote up or down ... Everything is run by a council of the smartest people, who in turn are mentored by a group of highly evolved biengs from Andromeda who have evolved so far they no longer need material bodies to learn ... That makes them at least 50 billion years old... Our leaders could care less about nature, or the future, or the common man, they only care about ego, money and the lust for power and might... This is why our world is in the shape it is ...We are led by maniacs... I think we are about to have another global war, and be sent back to the stone age, knowledge will be lost again, just like six times before...people find helicopters on pyramid walls 73,043 years old, and never make the connection, everything we have now we had before, global war always causes degeneration, society starts over... culture reaches a high level, enter the lust for power and might, global chaos caused by global war, everything covered by sand, water and destroyed by hurricanes, typhoons, volcanism, earthquakes, the earth reacts to conflict, and wrong thinking... she defends herself, mankind resets, technology lost, a people wonder how did those before us build that , we are the smartest yet can't do what they did, every generation thinks they are the smartest, most evolved, ha ...

Truthster013
13th August 2017, 04:32
You make some good points and ask some good questions. Now I have some:

1. What is the actual word used for "Most High" and to whom did it refer?
2. Ditto on "the LORD"

Who and what were they and where can we find the answer? I have looked, but have not found out yet. Anyone know?


"When the Most High apportioned the nations, when he divided humankind, he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the gods; the LORD's own portion was his people, Jacob his allotted share." - Deut 32:8-9.

Great question. The LORD would be YHVW. The "most high" could therefore be a different "god" though some may argue it was just a title there. I am on phone or I would take the time to look up the word there translated "Most High"

Foxie Loxie
13th August 2017, 12:35
My point is....we have not received a "correct" translation of the O.T. so, therefore, there can be a great variance of interpretations & many splits in the theological field. It's like an ice cream store....pick which flavor you want! :Party: