Free will is just part of the answer but a strong argument because when you agree we have free will then you know that God cannot force people to do anything.Quote:
Posted by travellor
And wrong choices sometimes lead to a lot of suffering.
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Free will is just part of the answer but a strong argument because when you agree we have free will then you know that God cannot force people to do anything.Quote:
Posted by travellor
And wrong choices sometimes lead to a lot of suffering.
The original language of the bible was Hebrew, Greek and some Aramaic.Quote:
Posted by TruseEthker
The fact the most of us read a translation does not mean it is not clear what is meant in the creation story.
It is very clear in the book of Genesis that the creation was done in six literal days and not six periods of time.
But to get to this truth you need to do some Hebrew word study.
He died FOR our sins, and not BECAUSE of our sin.Quote:
Posted by TruseEthker
So your right you did not kill Him.
Because God is righteous and He created the rules to live by there must be a penalty for sin.
And the only one who can take this penalty for you is the One that was without sin.
People who have sinned cannot be in the presence of a perfect God like darkness cannot exist in the light.
So to make it possible for all people to be with God Jesus died FOR your sins and payed the penalty for your sin so your slate is wiped clean and you are made perfect in the eyes of God.
Wow some cropped up anger here.Quote:
Posted by pharoah21
Do you really think this adds to the discussion?
And all of you who thanked him did you really find this a useful post???
I expected more of the members of this forum who keep talking about light, love and respect in all other threads.
Hey Krullenjongen, maybe it's just my construction site humor, but I still think the "yeah right" bit at the end is not only hilarious, but appropriate. Also, I didn't interpret the "I AM JEHOVA"part as anger, but a fairly literal take off on how a good bit of the Old Testament actually reads. Some of that stuff spewed out by our old buddy Yahweh makes my toe nails want to curl up.Quote:
Posted by KrullenjongenWow some cropped up anger here.Quote:
Posted by pharoah21
Do you really think this adds to the discussion?
And all of you who thanked him did you really find this a useful post???
I expected more of the members of this forum who keep talking about light, love and respect in all other threads.
Oke i'll run with this argument of it is impossible to prove.Quote:
Posted by RMorgan
the first and funny thing to see is that people making this argument believe for example guys like sitchin and the ancient aliens theory.
Why would you then trust in this guy that mistranslated some ancient clay tablet?
The second thing is that archeology gave us a lot of evidence that the things written in the bible are true like places and peoples who lived in the ancient world.
so we know a lot of things from the bible first before we had found any proof.
Try to do that with your harry potter book. ;)
i heard Yahweh chuckle a bit when i read this ; )Quote:
Posted by Fred S.
And the funny thing is that is you point out the fallacies in the video or point to video's like "Zeitgeist refuted" or the video " the case for Christ" that i posted in some other thread that have lots of good arguments for the reliability of the bible. People don't want to hear it or watch it.Quote:
Posted by RedeZrathose clips that you posted come out of Rotchild sponsored ZeitgeistQuote:
Posted by Loveisall21
but by all means if you want to believe wolves in sheeps clothing then go ahead
i wont stop you
And they call themselves open minded but keep going back to the same false arguments.
I thanked him because I found it amusing.Quote:
Posted by KrullenjongenWow some cropped up anger here.Quote:
Posted by pharoah21
Do you really think this adds to the discussion?
And all of you who thanked him did you really find this a useful post???
I expected more of the members of this forum who keep talking about light, love and respect in all other threads.
Quite different from the holier than thou attitude of people bashing us over the head with worn out teachings of another age.
Would your jesus behave such as you ''christians'' do here?
I would duck and fast!Quote:
Posted by KrullenjongenAnd the funny thing is that is you point out the fallacies in the video or point to video's like "Zeitgeist refuted" or the video " the case for Christ" that i posted in some other thread that have lots of good arguments for the reliability of the bible. People don't want to hear it or watch it.Quote:
Posted by RedeZrathose clips that you posted come out of Rotchild sponsored ZeitgeistQuote:
Posted by Loveisall21
but by all means if you want to believe wolves in sheeps clothing then go ahead
i wont stop you
And they call themselves open minded but keep going back to the same false arguments.
The hammer of irony has you in it's sights.
"They even sacrificed their sons And their daughters to devils" - Psalm 106:37
after a while even the Israelites fell for devil worship as they did not totally destroy the child sacrificing cult in Caanan
and eventually mingled with them and copied their customs
worshiping devils by sacrificing children
and so the Israelites became just another one of our old cultures
deep in devil worship and child sacrifice
until Yahweh finally had enough and sent Prophets to warn them
and Prophets said "if you kill your own children then Yahweh will kill you"
but the Prophets were killed
tuff times indeed ; )
As far as I can see from the research I've done so far, peoples interpretation of Christianity has a big hand in that.Quote:
here is much suffering in the world
The Gnostics in the Mystery Schools warned early Europeans about the dangers of the redeemer complex as they called it that was spreading from the near east. Gnostics and Pagans were brutaly supressed under this belief system. Then thier existense was almost erased from history.
I might be wrong but as far as I can see we have had 2000 years of war, book burning, torture, murder, scientific repression, genocide and spiritual decay all done in the name of the book in your thread title.
Yes of course that is your right.Quote:
Let the Bible speak
But lets also listen to what the Gnostics warned us about before the followers of your book erased them from the history books.
sourceQuote:
Redeemer Complex In the history of religions, an ensemble of beliefs and assumptions focussed on a supernatural figure imagined to have the power to "save" humanity and "redeem" the world, usually through a moment of final reckoning and retribution, Judgement Day. See also salvationism, which repeats some points in this entry.
The Gnostic protest against Judeo-Christianity has not been fairly or adequately stated by scholars, mainly because the scholars who specialize in Gnostic studies are constrained by their religious conditioning. Consequently, whenever the anti-Judaic and anti-Christian elements of Gnostic teachings become evident, they are immediately dismissed, treated as not worth considering. This unfortunate situation has produced a deeply misleading impression: we are left thinking that Gnostics must have been bad people if they rejected the religious tradition that has inspired humanity to high moral standards, such as justice, altruism, brotherly love, and forgiveness.
In fact, the Gnostics protested, not against the clear and obvious moral values that have tradionally been attributed to Judeo-Christian faith, but against the ideology of divine salvation enshrined in the Redeemer Complex. The specific elements of the Complex to which they objected are:
§ creation as the handiwork of a sole male deity, the Father God (monotheism), rather than as an ever-ongoing process involving diverse divinities of both genders (pantheism);
§ supremacy of the male Father God conceived as a judge and lawgiver;
§ repression of the Feminine—in Biblical terms, elimination of the figure of Wisdom, the Divine Sophia, or demoting of that figure to the handmaiden or servent of the Father God
§ god-given dominion of humanity over the Earth;
§ creation of humanity "in God's image";
§ corrupt nature of sexuality and the natural world (the myth of The Fall);
§ segregation of the select few or "choen people" who abide by god's commands and are both tested and favored in extreme measures, above the rest of humanity (the damned)
§ the supernatural source of atonement, contrasted to rapturous bonding with the healing and illuminating powers of the earth;
§ physical resurrection of the body, in the special case of Jesus Christ, and in the general case of the resurrection of humanity in the end time;
§ eternal punishment and damnation for sinners and infidels;
§ divine retribution, the apocalypse at the end of history.
Now, if you are a Christian who can practice the exemplary good behavior of love, altruism, forgiveness, and so on, without adhering blindly and fanatically to any or all of these points, you will have no problem with Gnostic views, which actually might enhance your life in some ways—mainly, through a deepened connection to the earth and all other living species. If, however, you need to keep faith in any or all of these propositions, you may find Gnostic teachings offensive and threatening.
uncle Gr has an issue, the council of Nicea in 325 ad, changed the baptism from the name of Jesus, to father son and holy ghost. they also decided what books to include and what books to leave out. So you only get a small portion, and lose the importance of the name of Jesus. so=called religious people of that day were the only who killed the messiah, funny the poor, the meek , the beggers didn't have a problem with jesus only the scribes/ religious ( one who were supposed to know the word to teach it to others) people were in an uproar. a rebel challenged the teachings of spirituality, sound familiar ??? enlightened minds challenging modern day religious teachings and we are called rebels against the system ??? I say we are in pretty good company. His message was love one and other and help where you can. why would the masses fight against that message ??
I've always been confused by the concept that Jesus died for our sins. Personally, I love Jesus, and I think that if he could die for our sins in order to make us more aware and awake and more loving and kind, he would die for us a million times over. But!!! What happened to personal responsibility? If you go out there and destroy people's lives, will Jesus save you??? Why should he? It's your responsibility to pay for your transgressions, not the responsibility of Jesus.
But I digress! The Bible...
Dear RedeZra, you are entitled to your beliefs just like we are all entitled to ours, and I am moved by your your convictions about the Bible and your passionate defence. But how can you believe every word in that book? What proof do you have? I do believe that the truth shall set you free, that is, when you finally find it.
then you muzz dig deeper ; )Quote:
Posted by Muzz
human history is bloody reading and suffering predates Christianity with thousands of years
much of the world is today run by a few secretive families who still plunges mankind into wars crime and corruption
i guess if satisfied with sloppy research then also this can be blamed on Christianity
we all know that the PTB supresses facts artifacts and information from the public
and it is a tedious task trying to figure out what is true and false regarding our origin and history because the PTB is not helping but misleading us down their version of history and origin
the PTB knows a whole lot about found facts and artifacts but for some reason they dont share with the public
so everybody is a detective hehe ; )
Jesus is alive and well and He is Spirit and ManQuote:
Posted by Daughter of Time
He speaks to people even today and manifest and visits in dreams and visions
Jesus is alive ; )
i believe the Bible because Jesus is alive ; )Quote:
Posted by Daughter of Time
Jesus is alive in spirit, yes, I do agree. But I don't see what that has to do with the Bible.
And by the way, what happened to the book of Mary?
hehe Really ?! Oh and He is coming Back soon are you prepared ?Quote:
Posted by Daughter of Time
found together with other Gnostic scrolls so not reliable ; )Quote:
Posted by Daughter of Time
Well said Lovisall21, however not said well enough for more people to be so much the better prepared " ..so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend."
1. John Mill (c. 1645 – 23 June 1707) "Mill's work noted over 30,000 discrepancies between some 100 extant New Testament manuscripts."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mill
2. Bart D Ehrman "Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why" and a lecture at Stanford University on April 25, 2007 about his then recent publication:
"There are more variations among our manuscripts than there are words in the New Testament."
https://youtube.com/watch?v=7cK3Ry_icJo
https://youtube.com/watch?v=7cK3Ry_icJo
Part 1/10 is 10m 144,457 views
http://img2.imagesbn.com/images/13770000/13772236.JPG
****
I believe it helps contentious dialog to no end, to refer to evidence as much as can be sought and found, for it can be soon discovered who has the fixed and unsustainable bias.
"Misquoting Jesus" is very affordable given the amount of effort and research, won't take much more than a few evenings of effort to read, and one will be forearmed with more than mere personal opinion for the next time this topic of "The Bible" comes up.
- 58
Quote:
Posted by Loveisall21
what is it that we seek in the Bible ? Jesus Christ
well He is Living so seek Him
not words but Spirit
So the only reliable source is coming from the social group, all men, wearing women's dress, preaching about love and molesting children? In your shoes I would seriously revise the believe system concepts which guide your thoughts patterns which sticks you to something so obviously fraudulent.Quote:
Posted by RedeZra
found together with other Gnostic scrolls so not reliable ; )Quote:
Posted by Daughter of Time
I am not a religious man but I studied religions half of my life. I dedicated a lot of time to know better the figure of Jesus, not from the Christian sources and not fro Gnostic ones. What I came up with was a Jesus, a mortal man, much more intellectually and spiritually developed then others of his (and ours) era, who's psychic abilities allowed him to be in some occasions of his life a kind of vehicle for the Christic spirit to manifest through him and spread the Universal laws among men. The rest is more or less what was convenient to put in so called "sacred scripts" by the establishment of that time.
And you say Jesus is alive. His word is alive, his teachings, simple and strait are the base of the new society and the miracle we are waiting for is the assimilation of this teachings and their incorporation in our daily life.
Sounds a bit more logic to me (but that is just me).
Cheers.