Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani
Did Fox News Host Tucker Carlson Save Us All By Getting Trump To See Important Info?!
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Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani
Quote:
Posted by
edina
My understanding was the air space around Tehran was shut down during the missile launches, precisely to avoid such a mishap.
The attacks were done around 1.20 a. m., same time as Soleimani was hit. There would not have been a commercial or civilian mishap to happen. Tehran was not the origin of attacks.
The sudden loss of power and lack of distress call are highly suggestive of attack. An on-board bomb could have been placed during the maintenance 48 hours before this flight; or, it could have been hit by anyone with a Manpad or similar device. Since we have flooded the market with portable rockets able to take out low-flying planes, there is no shortage of possible culprits.
Why Iran as a state might have done it is beyond me. It is not a culture of "false flags". It is not interested in nuclear weaponry per se, unless it feels this is the only possible deterrent. It does not need them to eliminate all foreign bases in the region. That is the part that should be taken seriously.
It is also hard to conceive anything sillier than Iran/Soieimani was "definitely going to attack within days", and then provide them a reason to do so, which they did, with no cover-up, and a stated intention to continue. One dirty, underhanded, illegal stupid thing followed by a normal and legal response. Aside from the fact of "small" incidents like this happening all the time, this assassination ranks as perhaps the stupidest, weakest thing I have ever heard of. The claims of casualties or the thing about the red flag might be exaggerated, but, the extreme vulnerability of all the mid-east bases is pretty much proven.
U. S. is already run by an eschatological regime which has used nuclear weapons unnecessarily against a civilian population, only one I can think of that has. Whatever they bleat about who "might" do this is rather frivolous, and if there was one to watch, it would be India v. Pakistan, largely again thanks to British map makers.
Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani
Looks definitive now... just access the various news sites regardless of their known biases... meaning their political opposition to each other.
Iran shot the Ukrainian airliner down with a Russian made SA-15 missile. The US is calling it a tragic mistake which is (IMO) likely true. That the US Pentagon officials would emphasize this is indicative that the intentions of the US are committed to deescalation of the tensions between Iran and the US. This suggests the neo-cons are not as "in charge" as some might think (as I surely thought last Friday).
It makes sense RT would try to spin this otherwise (and I don't judge them for it anyways as (IMO) all of these news major and middle tier news agencies are somewhat or fully compromised).
CNN - Video appears to show missile strike as Canada and UK say they have intel Iran shot down Ukrainian plane
Hard to dispute the video much less someone like Trudeau (who is no friend of Trump and his administration) publicly stating it was, indeed, a missile strike fired from nearby and clearly within Iran.
Found a pure video (without news commentary) - Clear evidence it was a surface to air missile in this video.
Clear stupidity for Iran to allow their airport to remain open once they launched their missiles at the bases in Iraq.
Russian SA-15s have two modes, manual and automatic. If set on automatic, the missiles would not need a human to decide to launch. Somehow they overlooked shutting down their airport.
Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani
Quote:
Posted by
syrwong
syrwong, thank you for sharing this, and I want to point out that all of these points have been made in this thread, without the rage, cussing, and ire.
*******
btw, I had wanted to thank you for taking the time to translate The first Chinese time traveller on the internet, I read that with great interest. I imagine it took you a good while to do the translation. Many points to ponder from that exchange. :) Thanks, much appreciated.
Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani
I found a passenger list.
Only it seems very strange to me. Only the names of the Iranian passengers have been listed, not those of the other countries and passengers. This amazes me that Ukraine publishes this list that makes no sense, ... On request I can post the passenger list here.
The sad thing is that there were some children among the passengers. The youngest is "Molani Kurdia 2018" one year young ...
Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani
Quote:
Would you find that behavior acceptable from all governments? If they don't like what someone does or thinks, wait till they are traveling , create a shoddy excuse and drone strike them. And if the country where you did it doesn't like it, threaten and bully them as well. This kind of behavior is grandiose and insane.
I hope that was rhetorical but in case it was not...
Of course I find it absolutely reprehensible. And my reply would be: 911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB! because that is the justification for this extreme Nazi-esque definition of life and liberty, and the distorted ethics to go along with it.
Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani
MSNBC Fake News Pushed Claim that 30 Americans "Died" In Iran Attacks
Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani
One of the reasons Trump was able to do what he did (Soleimani) is because of historical precedent -
Flashback: Pelosi Said Obama Did Not Need Authorization to Attack Libya
See the 16 second clip from C-Span 3
There's longer clips available for anyone who wishes for fuller context.
So there will be readers here that conclude I am defending Trump's act and also trying to throw it back in the face of "Democrats." But what I am actually pointing out is that when your have a political dynamic that, for years, has lied, twisted, interpreted anything and everything in ways to justify the actions they desire because they perceive those actions will result in desired outcomes, unlike legal precedents that generally establish what is known as case law, you have news outlets that have their own political biases throwing back in the faces of the public, examples (such as the one above) that feature the pure hypocrisy of almost all participants of the US political class.
And that makes all this baloney you see and hear from the media companies the best thing that ever happened to the popcorn industry but little more. IMO Trump understands this and has capitalized on it like no one has done before.
Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani
Quote:
Posted by
Ernie Nemeth
Quote:
Would you find that behavior acceptable from all governments? If they don't like what someone does or thinks, wait till they are traveling , create a shoddy excuse and drone strike them. And if the country where you did it doesn't like it, threaten and bully them as well. This kind of behavior is grandiose and insane.
I hope that was rhetorical but in case it was not...
Of course I find it absolutely reprehensible. And my reply would be: 911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB! because that is the justification for this extreme Nazi-esque definition of life and liberty, and the distorted ethics to go along with it.
@ Ernie Nemeth,
I have to fully agree with your contribution that 911 was an inside job. As for the twin towers and the impact, I can't say much about that. But the Pentagon itself was not attacked by a plane, but I think everyone who has dealt with it knows that.
Ok, that Bush then declared the axis of evil was clear. Still, it was an act of aggression against the United States' own people. My idea is that Afghanistan was not only attacked because of Bin Laden. Bin Laden only played the scapegoat here. the real reason is a little further away than Afghanistan. It was Kazakhstan that Bush wanted, the oil wells. But what the Taliban disagreed with. So war, ... while the US is in grief and revenge. It's a good time and at the same time to free the world from Saddam.
A guess that something like that happened at 911 back then, was planned and carried out, I think that is also being used now. The question is whether Trump will act like Bush? There is some evidence that he is not pulling out the US troops. Whether he is deliberately endangering her and whether the rest of the world, especially the US itself, is another question. I only know one thing that Trumps plans to do or that something went wrong. Something he will surely correct. I just hope that there won't be a second 911. Blood for oil ...!?!
Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani
Trudeau has left the door open to blaming the US for the Iranian shoot down of the Ukranian airliner. Of course, he is vague in what he is suggesting leaving room for all sorts of speculation:
Pro "hawk" CIA types somehow pulled it off. This is a 1%er (my rule is that any specific selection within a possibility set should receive a minimum of 1% chance if listed).
Though the shoot down was a mistake, it's the fault of Trump's act (taking out Soleimani) that the accident occurred. I make this one 98%.
The shoot down was intentional so as to achieve world condemnation of the US's overall mid east presence coupling that with a coordinated reaction from Iraq (which just emerged) using the Iran missile strike as the example for supporting the reason the US must leave Iraq. 1% just because it is possible.
I wish the US would wind down all of this "presence" stuff around the world. I am a fantacist and know my wish is less than 1% likely. Still, I state my wish.
Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani
What I meant was that the world changed that day and it has not been the same place since. Everything that has happened since 911 could not have happened without it. Imagine someone asking you to take off your shoes, empty your water bottle, get groped, get X-rayed, get profiled and singled out for a full body scan, get cavity searched, every time you got on a plane back in the '90s. There would have been hell to pay. No one would have accepted it as a matter of course like today.
Nor would we have allowed the five regional wars in the middle east. It could not have been justified. And in this climate of fear and paranoia Nazi-inspired (literally) behavior and ideology was easily assimilated by everyone, most without ever noticing what was actually happening. Drones and cruise missiles and real-time war footage right down to following bombs to their targets made good TV viewing and boosted ratings.
Taking out foreign nationals is just another little totalitarian tiptoe towards total civilian domination. And if a US citizen just happens to become a target, well, we do it to foreigners, why not our own?
It is in our minds, this terrorist propaganda, and has us all seeing ghosts. We can accept a lot of dirty deeds in the name of the scourge that is terrorism in any of its forms - including foreign intervention and meddling, at which the USA is master and in a class by themselves.
I'm surprised Homeland security isn't called Fatherland security, but I guess that would have been too obvious...
Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani
Quote:
Posted by
edina
Quote:
Posted by
Praxis
I think it is interesting that any critique of the administration and policies is met with something along the lines of
"you are so biased against trump" or "you have trump derangement syndrome"
I find this to be a trap and a red herring. Many of the trump supporters, both overt and covert, will try to force you into this mode.
It is something like reverse ad-hominem. They are trying to make you talk about his personality and him instead of the things he is doing with the office of the president.
Do not fall for this bait. Stay focused on policies(like not releasing the JFK info and not withdrawing from occupations or closing guantanamo bay.)
The reason they try to force the debate about his personality is because it is difficult to defending holding families in cages and occupying countries for decades.
Praxis, I understand your concerns.
And I've noticed it happens from many political directions, messenger over message, and personality over policy, emotion over reason, ect...
And this is amplified, magnified and agitated in the present media/cultural environment.
If this is going to be shifted, it has to start with each of us, on a human to human scale.
Completely agree.
It is why I come so hard at the people around here. I feel very shocked that the people around here are NOT very pro peace.
If you support any president really since Reagan, then you support a war criminal. Full stop.
If you go back and look at my critiques starting from the beginning of the admin, I have been very focused on certain issues. The occupations of Iraq Afghanistan and Cuba have been right at the top.
Well, On guantanamo bay, which nobody is discussing except me, trump actually started it up and sending more people there, or at least publicly expressed this desire.
This is wrong on so many levels. If you support trump. You are supporting this policy. FULL STOP. You might also be supporting trump because you happen to like his tax brakes or something but it does also mean you support holding people indefinitely without trial, just like Obama, just like Bush.
Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani
Quote:
Posted by
apokalypse
@johncardillo
.@SpeakerPelosi
on executive military action when Obama was POTUS,
Reporter: “Madame Leader you’re saying that the president did not need authorization initially, and still does not need any authorization from Congress on Libya?”
Pelosi: “Yes”
https://twitter.com/johncardillo/sta...78967026749440
that is Bull**** and this make me hate Dems even more along with people who outrage over Trump but not Obama especially Bush....people need to get that **** out of their head left vs right.
Yes, they all do it. Trump seems to have noticed it, saw it doesn't make any difference what clowns say and most importantly, how the media spins it. He can make all sorts of "mistakes" (intentional or not) and all most people care about is their own reality experience and how their lives are better or worse for it and what risks they think are real in giving him 4 more years. The key will be holding the senate.
I don't think these last few decades marks the end of civil, political operations... I think it only marks the exposure its all been "for show." Comedians have been good at exposing this but the actual actors always presented a facade until the 2016 presidential election (and run-up), at least this is what I see and how I interpret it.
Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani
@johncardillo
.@SpeakerPelosi
on executive military action when Obama was POTUS,
Reporter: “Madame Leader you’re saying that the president did not need authorization initially, and still does not need any authorization from Congress on Libya?”
Pelosi: “Yes”
https://twitter.com/johncardillo/sta...78967026749440
that is Bull**** and this make me hate Dems even more along with people who outrage over Trump but not Obama especially Bush....people need to get that **** out of their head left vs right.
Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani
Quote:
Posted by
Iyakum
I found a passenger list.
... On request I can post the passenger list here.
..
Yes, please do :highfive:
Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani
Well, for what it's worth - a reasonable amount I wager - the investigation could take as long as one month to complete.
They haven't yet really got to grips with the black box recordings, so, mainstream media "rush to judgements" (translated as spin/PR) really ought to be treated as such and some patience employed between now and whatever does come to light.
[from the Guardian's rolling feed today]:
Iran continues to deny the assessments of western intelligence agencies that its force shot down the Ukrainian passenger jet in the tense early hours on Wednesday morning.
Ali Abedzadeh, the head of Iran’s Civil Aviation Organisation, said overnight:
“At the time this plane was in the air, there were several other internal and international flights flying at 8000 feet and the suggestion it was targeted by a missile cannot be correct.”
Flight records show there was some domestic traffic around the same time at the Mehrabad Airport, about 35km north-east of Imam Khomeini International airport.
Flight records available online show there were no other flights landing or taking off from Imam Khomeini International airport around the same as the Ukrainian plane was in flight.
Hassan Rezaeifar, the head of the committee that oversees aviation accidents in Iran, said “nowhere in the world” would it be possible to determine the cause of a crash this soon. “Not only haven’t we found evidence to prove the claim [of a missile strike] but we’ve found evidence to reject it,” he said, likely referring to claims by Iranian investigators that the Ukrainian flight attempted to turn around and return to the airport before it went down.
He said he was open to international involvement in the probe, including American, but added - likely in reference to sanctions that prevent US involvement with Iran - that they “should get the authority from their Senate”.
And, here:
Iranian officials gave a press conference on Friday giving more details of their investigation and continuing to rebuff allegations the Ukrainian aircraft was shot down. “If [intelligence agencies] have findings with scientific support they should show this to the world,” Ali Abedzadeh, the head of Iran’s Civil Aviation Organisation, told reporters.
He said he had watched a video clip purporting to show the plane being hit by a missile before crashing to the ground but said “this cannot be confirmed from a scientific perspective”.
He said the pilot had been in contact with the control tower two minutes before the accident, asking if he could ascend to 26,000 feet. After the fire broke out, the crew would have been consumed with “saving the plane”, he said, and so would not have been able to communicate further to explain what had gone wrong.
“We have to look for the cause of the fire,” Abedzadeh said.
Hassan Rezaeifar, the head of the committee that oversees aviation accidents in Iran, said that contrary to earlier claims that the black boxes appeared to have been damaged by the crash, both appeared to be intact.
“We prefer to extract the data and download the data inside the country,” he said. “But if we come to the conclusion that the data may be damaged then we will carry out the process [overseas].”
Investigators would attempt to extract and analyse the black box data on Friday, he added, but said the findings might take one or two months to be released.
1 Attachment(s)
Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani
Attachment 42248
Quote:
Posted by
Tintin
Quote:
Posted by
Iyakum
I found a passenger list.
... On request I can post the passenger list here.
..
Yes,
please do :highfive:
As you wish the passengerlist of flight PS-752 just download it or save it.
Sorry this is the right one...
Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani
Almost always, most people make up their minds pretty fast.
Here's what most westerners at least are told -
The detailed evidence "reported" to most western news agencies that come from the US Pentagon nail Iran.
The same claim is being supported by officials (including Trudeau) pointing to their own intelligence gathering capabilities (including communication intercepts).
Highlighting the refusal of Iran to provide the black boxes.
The claim of Iran that the boxes are "damaged" and are rendered technically inaccessible.
The initial refusal of Iran to allow any third part into the crash site.
The reports of bulldozers doing whatever (implication - hiding/destroying potential evidence of a missile or two).
The rapid emergence of a (convenient) video purported to be 'real' showing one (or two) missiles coming from an angle of about 30 degrees above horizontal and slamming into a plane.
The conclusion by most of the public that if Iran did, indeed, (accidentally or worse, intentionally) shoot the plane down, that Iran would deny it and try every way possible to spin it that way and try every way they can to prevent "smoking gun" type proof from getting out.
For all the above, most in the western world who lean to Trump's taking out of Soleimani and the fallout that has so far happened, will lay it all at Iran's feet.
Those who hate Trump blame Trump - that's simple to understand.
Then there are the so-called "independents." And based on all the points above, I make odds more independents lean to blaming Iran than Trump. Having said that, I would imagine the entirety of the US middle east foreign policy as enacted over decades has lost most of any support independents may have held for such activity. My hope is that this is the case and that the US gets out sooner than otherwise.
